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Post  Elanor Wed May 04, 2011 9:55 am

Ginny Weasley

This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011.- Elanor

Sly Girl - Aug 29, 2003 1:56 pm
Edited by Kip Carter Nov 17, 2005 2:24 am
I have it on good authority that Ginny will be a seer in the upcoming books and play an important, pivotal part. Of course, this hasn't stopped people from shooting that down. There are no clear hints that Ginny has this talent, like Ron, but there are also no clear hints that she doesn't. (yes, that's a bit circular) A strong proponet to this idea is the theory of the 7th child of the 7th child, which according to myth shall be either a healer or a seer. Ginny is the 7th child. I'm assuming either Arthur or Molly is also a 7th child. Discuss amongst yourselves!



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Last edited by Elanor on Sat May 07, 2011 10:52 am; edited 3 times in total
Elanor
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Post  Elanor Wed May 04, 2011 10:13 am

Dr.Filibuster - Aug 29, 2003 1:49 pm (#1 of 2152)
Maybe there will just be a funny entry in JK's epilogue about Harry and Ginny's 7th child being a great seer.

Can you imagine their horror, after all Harry has gone through because of a stupid bloody prophecy, then WHAM! their youngest starts speaking in funny "harsh hoarse tones" AAAARGH!

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Liz Mann - Aug 29, 2003 3:06 pm (#2 of 2152)

Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Or worse, becomes another Trelawney!!

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rettoP yrraH - Aug 29, 2003 3:45 pm (#3 of 2152)

Half of what I say is meaningless
Yea and then her eyesite gets worse and she has to start wearing thick glasses....

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Liz Mann - Aug 29, 2003 4:01 pm (#4 of 2152)

Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
And develops a fondness for beads and bangles.

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Saralinda - Aug 29, 2003 9:11 pm (#5 of 2152)

The Fuzzy Princess Saralinda, age 12 Smile
I liked the growing confidence that allowed her to try out for the Quidditch team and to lip back at Harry when he was being a prat.

By the way, I had to read Liz's post three times. Kept reading it as "bands and beagles."

Must be old age. :-/

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Sly Girl - Aug 29, 2003 11:20 pm (#6 of 2152)

Yes, Ginny's not afraid of telling Harry off when he needs to be told off, which was quite a lot, this book. There were a couple of times that Ginny was a much needed common sense sort of voice to him. It's interesting comparing Hermione and Ginny- they're similar yet very different in interesting ways.

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Slytherin Prefect - Aug 29, 2003 11:52 pm (#7 of 2152)

Also known as Chuda Jurian of the Snake Clan
That brings up an interesting question about book 6...

Who's going to be the seeker? Is Harry going to just be able to ask Ginny to step aside and let him back in his rightful spot? Would Harry be able to accept his spot back without doing that angsty thing he does with "do I really belong here?" and all those questions a Slytherin would never ask himself...

But I digress. ^_^

My guess is that Ginny is going to happily move over to chaser or something. Unless Ron gets her mad enough to pick up a beater's bat over the summer. ^_^

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Carina - Aug 30, 2003 12:28 am (#8 of 2152)

and her killer bunny rabbit
Ginny has already said she was going to try to be chaser next year. She's good, but everyone know Harry is better.

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Slytherin Prefect - Aug 30, 2003 3:58 am (#9 of 2152)

Also known as Chuda Jurian of the Snake Clan
That's right. Crikey, it's late. ^_^

And I've read that sucker four times now. Shame on me for not remembering that. ^_^

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lesley hunter - Aug 30, 2003 8:04 am (#10 of 2152)

I remember the post regarding Ginny's new talent from the other message board. I was wondering, since Ron has already make predictions, perhaps Ginny develops another talent. There are signs that she is a very powerful wizard, maybe she learns to be an animagus.

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Professor Kosh - Aug 30, 2003 8:50 am (#11 of 2152)

Instructor, Defense Against the Dark Arts
I think Ginny has a significant future with Harry. There has been much speculation on the resemblences between her and Lily Potter. (Even in the movie, they looked quite a bit alike!) She has magic chops, can tell Harry when he's being a git, yet seems more in touch with her feelings than Herminonie, and is the only student alive besides Harry who has survived Lord Voldemort. As pointed out in OoP, that does create a unique bond that noone else has.

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Dr Filibuster - Aug 30, 2003 4:24 pm (#12 of 2152)

Sue, from Northwich, England.
I loved that bit in the book where she reminds Harry about her being possessed by Tom Riddle.

I completely empathised with Harry. DOH!. How could he have fogotten? Then I realised that I had too.

Liam, you are right, although we know very little about Lily she does seem similar. Powerful young witch, speaks her mind, brave, lads falling for her.

Crouch Jnr may have felt that she'd make a good auror.

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Landman - Aug 30, 2003 7:26 pm (#13 of 2152)


It seems a bit late in the game for JKR to announce that Ginny is a Seer, when she hasn't previously given us any clues. Seems like she would have thrown in some hints, and then re-emphasized it.

But I know you trust your contact, Sly, so I'll go along for the ride.

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Carina - Aug 30, 2003 8:52 pm (#14 of 2152)

and her killer bunny rabbit
lesley hunter - Aug 30, 2003 8:04 am (#10 of 13) I remember the post regarding Ginny's new talent from the other message board. I was wondering, since Ron has already make predictions, perhaps Ginny develops another talent. There are signs that she is a very powerful wizard, maybe she learns to be an animagus.

Ask SP about his magic pink pony theory...

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Sly Girl - Aug 30, 2003 10:03 pm (#15 of 2152)

It's the fact that she hasn't given us clues is what cinchs it, actually. She has misled us with the RON as jokester-seer stuff and so when we do find out about Ginny it will be a MAJOR reveal. Like hit your head and go, HUH? kind of thing. But of course, she'll do it in her JKR style that makes sense after the fact.

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Slytherin Prefect - Aug 30, 2003 10:16 pm (#16 of 2152)

Also known as Chuda Jurian of the Snake Clan
And here I was thinking that the flying pink magical pony humanimagus thing had fallen through the cracks during the transition period. ^_^

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Ihavebothbuttocks - Aug 31, 2003 3:30 am (#17 of 2152)

Oh please, not pink! It would clash dreadfully with the Weasley hair!

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siobhan - Aug 31, 2003 6:11 am (#18 of 2152)

Harry seems to enjoy Ginny's company more too now that she isn't swooning over him all the time. He talks to her a lot more in this book than in the first 4. Now that shes un attainable i think Harry likes her because she is unknownst to herself playing hard to get. Ron seems to want them to get it together (when he finds out about the michael corner dumping episode) and harry and Ginny have a real bond in the voldemort possessions. he reallly gets to know her character whereas before she was just another fan. I loved her in this book. Finally she has come into her own and i wouldn't be surprised if she was to become a seer.

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rettoP yrraH - Aug 31, 2003 2:00 pm (#19 of 2152)

Half of what I say is meaningless
Pink? thats why hermonie has pink clothes in the PoA film!

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Dr Filibuster - Aug 31, 2003 2:14 pm (#20 of 2152)

Sue, from Northwich, England.
Grr, don't get me started on that. They'll have poor Ginny squeezed into a boob tube instead of squeezing buber tuber pus.

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Gina R Snape - Aug 31, 2003 2:53 pm (#21 of 2152)

"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I loved Ginny in OoP. She really came into her own. And, her character was, IMO, possibly the best example of the books being written from Harry's PoV.

Ginny has had this personality all along. But we didn't know it because Harry didn't know it. She seems better equipped to put Harry and Ron in their places than Hermione. She's smart and sassy--and started dating before her own older brother. She is a force to be reckoned with! I can't wait to see what else she gets up to in the next 2 books.

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Joost! - Sep 1, 2003 3:34 am (#22 of 2152)

Second line of information
I didn't like Ginny in OoP at all. That's probably because I have a younger sister myself, and I could really relate to Ron when he heard about the things Ginny's been doing without him knowing (two romances, secretly practicing Quidditch etc.)

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Jesspy - Sep 1, 2003 5:43 am (#23 of 2152)

I am really happy that Ginny has developed into this interesting, funny, strong young woman. She was such a wet blanket before, she really got on my nerves. She was a throw away character, any of the other minor female characters could of filled her role in the story. She is able to deal with thing much more maturely than Ron and Hermione. I can see her definetly turning into a pivotal character.

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Sly Girl - Sep 1, 2003 1:07 pm (#24 of 2152)

I wonder if Firenze, will have anything to do with noticing Ginny's latent talent of seer-ing? I wish we knew if Ginny took Divination, at all.

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Bluenote1313 - Sep 2, 2003 7:21 am (#25 of 2152)

I am really curious to see where Ginny's real talent lies. Bill had a good job with Gringott's as a curse breaker and Charlie handles dragons...both seem to be very difficult jobs only attained by very good wizards. Percy (boooo!!) despite being a prat is apparently a very good wizard as well, judging by his Hogwarts history and OWLS and NEWTS. Fred and George, I bet, are the two best wizards in the family, as they are creating their own magic although not using it for the things their parents would prefer. And from reading the books their seems to be a stronger and stronger hint that Ron has a bit of Seer in him, even though he may not now it. remember what Ferinze says about Trelawney, that she may be a true seer but she lets her human side cloud what she really sees....maybe Ron has the same problems Trelawney does with regards to seeing...

So that leaves us with Ginny, we have not really been told and shown any of her abilities, although we know she is as sneaky as Fred and George and probably a pretty good little witch....

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St. Mana - Sep 2, 2003 4:30 pm (#26 of 2152)

May the Lord have mercy on your tortured soul.
Ginny is cool. I think sicne Harry's over Cho. He might like Ginny.Meh I dunno. Ginny IMHO is one of the best characters. I dont feel like explaining why. If i dont make sense forgive me, its really hard to type with grammar and stuff. BTW I think Ron dosnt understand Ginny at all.

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Harold Pinta - Sep 5, 2003 11:40 am (#27 of 2152)

Ron being a seer I don't believe, JKr is using Ron to give us hints about futue developments in the books. Ginny is according to the twins a great curser, you don't want to be on the receiving end of her Bogey curse (If anyone can look up the real curse in OotP, british version I would be much obliged, I can't seem to find it, but I'm certain I read it somewhere!)So it is certain that we can expect a lot more of the youngest Weasley kids.

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haymoni - Sep 5, 2003 1:30 pm (#28 of 2152)

I think Ginny is smart enough to realize that Harry has "more than enough to be getting on with" (or whatever Dumbledore's quote was regarding Harry not being a prefect.) and will move on.

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TGF - Sep 5, 2003 10:20 pm (#29 of 2152)

Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I throw my lot in with Slytherin Girl over the Ginny-is-a-seer thing... It does make sense, as Divination has to serve a greater purpose other than being a bad/annoying class, along with giving an angle for the Prophecy.

As it stands, Ron and Harry are most likely NOT going to be taking Divination in their 6th years. But, it is mentioned that Firenze and Trelwaney will be doing some sort of joint-operation for Divination... why would JKR mention that if Divination was to be completely out of the picture for Harry? Having Ginny become a Seer makes her role fulfilled.

See, Sly, I backed you up!

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Professor Kosh - Sep 6, 2003 3:21 pm (#30 of 2152)

Instructor, Defense Against the Dark Arts
To address haymoni: Ginny has moved on. In fact, she moved on quite a while ago. My thoughts are that Ginny will play a large role in Harry's life, and will form a strong bond with him. Whether or not that bond will be friend or more, is something for the 'ship' thread.

I think Divination is continuing in the books only as a vehicle to involve Firenze in the adventures and likely in the Order. I believe he has a larger role to play than just seer. That said, to return to topic, I don't believe Ginny( or Ron or any of the DA) will be a seer. Divination has served its role in the prophecy, and now in involving Firenze, and I don't see that it will have much else to do.

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Denise S. - Sep 6, 2003 6:34 pm (#31 of 2152)

We are not a cult, we're just slightly obsessed and mentally unstable. There's a difference. ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
"I wish we knew if Ginny took Divination, at all."

I'm extremely sure she does--isn't Divinations one of the compulsory classes?

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Olivia Wood - Sep 6, 2003 6:37 pm (#32 of 2152)

Undisputable evidence: Hermione is an alien.
Nope. Divination is an elective course for 3rd years up. Remember, Hermione doesn't take it?

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Sly Girl - Sep 6, 2003 8:31 pm (#33 of 2152)

All I can say to Kosh is... prepare to be shocked in the upcoming books then.

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Slytherin Prefect - Sep 6, 2003 10:13 pm (#34 of 2152)

Also known as Chuda Jurian of the Snake Clan
Indeed. Remember what Ron said... She still 'likes' him.

It's just that she's not going to wait around for him forever to make up his angsty little 16-year-old mind.

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TGF - Sep 6, 2003 10:18 pm (#35 of 2152)

Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
SP I think your Slytherin brethern was speaking of Ginny being a Seer, not of H/G ships...

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Slytherin Prefect - Sep 6, 2003 10:26 pm (#36 of 2152)

Also known as Chuda Jurian of the Snake Clan
Ah, I reckon that's possible. That may be true, but my point still stands. ^_^

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Professor Kosh - Sep 6, 2003 10:43 pm (#37 of 2152)

Instructor, Defense Against the Dark Arts
TGF had it right. I'm all for the Harry/Ginny relationship. I just don't 'see' the seer thing happening. Teehee!

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St. Mana - Sep 7, 2003 11:37 am (#38 of 2152)

May the Lord have mercy on your tortured soul.
On what grounds is Ginny considered a possible seer? I'm to stupid to search through past posts. Seers in general usually neeed to have the blood of a seer in them.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 7, 2003 11:52 am (#39 of 2152)

Let it snow!
The only things thus far that really point to Ginny being a possible seer are the fact that she's a seventh child (there's a belief that the seventh child of a seventh child will be a seer or a healer) and the fact that Ron can make correct predictions on accident or when he's joking (thus showing that it runs in the family). I don't believe it simply because there are no real clues laid for this. If JK had just done something in OotP to show that Ginny had some sort of sixth sense, I could readily accept the two given instances listed above as proof enough. As it stands, though, I'm still waiting for something more....

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Hem Hem - Sep 7, 2003 2:21 pm (#40 of 2152)

How about Ginny being a healer? That would make a pretty good career for her....imagine how proud Molly would be!

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Olivia Wood - Sep 7, 2003 2:25 pm (#41 of 2152)

Undisputable evidence: Hermione is an alien.
I'd prefer Healer to Seer... I never really thought being a Seer was such a good thing.

"The Inner Eye can be a burden, you know."

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Sly Girl - Sep 7, 2003 3:00 pm (#42 of 2152)

Ah ye people of little faith....

Does no one trust me on this? Would I honestly steer you guys wrong? Ah well. It is hard to know something you can't really prove at this point, however I will have those Told You So Tee shirts made up in time...

For those who may have missed it- One of the reveals that JKR plans to do revolves around a certain character coming into a talent they have not shown an ability for. The ability itself is something that has been guessed about, but about the wrong character. (ie-Ron) The talent relates directly to the Seventh child of the seventh child legend, which as S.E. pointed out, revolves around that child becoming a healer or a seer.

You cannot look back on the books and find clues of this talent for this character, I'm afraid, which of course, is why people think I'm balmy. You can however find clues of it for ANOTHER character she is related to. Don't ask me how that works, because that is up to JKR to explain. I personally think it will have something to do with ALL the Weasley's which is why some characters have hinted at it and some have not.

I'm taking the 5th and refusing to name my source, but it is a source that I dearly trust and who really knows. I have no reason to doubt them in the slightest and I myself, had to figure it out before they'd even acknowledge I was on the right track.

That said, I know some of you will pooh pooh it because you don't see any proof of it and you think if it were important enough she'd had mentioned it by now. Well, unfortunately, JKR is very crafty indeed and you know she doesn't tell us anything until she wants to- witness Threstals.. Metamorphmagus..the portraits ability to leave Hogwarts, the characters of Luna.. Tonks.. etc. I personally think she will have this talent 'bloom' inside Ginny and have it be something Ginny may not have known she had. Oh, in looking back she may have thought to herself certain things, but I'm fairly sure Ginny doesn't know she has the talent either.

Okay. My Protego shields are all down. Stone me if you will.

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Olivia Wood - Sep 7, 2003 3:11 pm (#43 of 2152)

Undisputable evidence: Hermione is an alien.
If you're sure that she's going to be a Seer than I guess we'll have to trust you, but I still don't like it. Main reson: Would Harry really want a girlfriend who's a Seer after all the trouble Divination has caused him?

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Sly Girl - Sep 7, 2003 3:17 pm (#44 of 2152)

Sure, why not? Any new Prophecy's come down the pipe, and Harry doesn't have to wait 16 years to hear it.

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Professor Kosh - Sep 8, 2003 2:46 am (#45 of 2152)

Instructor, Defense Against the Dark Arts
I agree with Olivia. If someone (Ginny, Ron) becomes a 'seer', I won't like it. Perhaps a personal bias, but I think if you start throwing prophecies around, then the uncertainty necessary to the story starts to fade. Prophecy is stories is kind of a pet peeve. It's almost never done well. It's often done too much, and the uncertainty and excitement of the story is lost, or the accuracy is so off that it is nothing but an unimaginative way to throw red herrings around. JKR has already placed one very crucial prophecy in the center of the story. Already, this has removed a bit of the uncertainty (just look at all the threads about how Harry can't be killed now unless Volde does it, so he's never in any danger. Same with Volde). So far, its not too much to spoil anything (for me) but its pretty close to the line.

I certainly don't doubt your veracity, Sly Girl, and thus I must consider that you have significantly raised the likelyhood of more 'seer's in the future books. If so, I guess I'll just have to deal. But, I'll be disappointed. And it will spoil Ginny for me (if it's her).

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Sly Girl - Sep 8, 2003 1:24 pm (#46 of 2152)

I don't understand how you can claim to be disappointed in something you haven't even read about yet- none of us know how JKR will 'handle' the situation. She could, quite possibly, blow your mind with how it works out.

Isn't it better to have a bit of faith then none at all?

Again, there is nothing that says Ginny will walk around spouting prophecies every chance she gets. She may not be that sort of 'seer'..she may not even do prophecies. I must reiterate something I said before- we only have Trelawny as an example of what a 'seer' is (and, of coure the centaurs, to a lesser extent) in this world. We do not have enough information about authentic examples of 'seers'.

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Madam Poppy - Sep 8, 2003 10:41 pm (#47 of 2152)

Kirsten Valleskey
Well, Madam Trelawney doesn't even know when she gives an authentic prophecy. Ginny could have made predictions and if no one was around to hear, her family would not be aware of her abilities. As the lone girl and the baby of the family, Ginny probably spends alot of time by herself.

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schoff - Sep 8, 2003 10:45 pm (#48 of 2152)

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the prophecy, though? No one being around to hear it?

I really want to insert a "If a tree fell in the woods..." joke here, but I'm not that clever. Timrew, help? Smile

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Professor Kosh - Sep 8, 2003 11:04 pm (#49 of 2152)

Instructor, Defense Against the Dark Arts
SG, I don't claim to BE disappointed, but I suspect I WOULD be if many more prophecies start popping up all about. I think they take away from a story. That said, JKR may well blow my mind. Don't think I'm approaching the upcoming works with a closed mind. Just giving my opinion.

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Beth Kakuma - Sep 9, 2003 8:35 pm (#50 of 2152)

I would have to agree with Prof. Kosh that Ginny being a seer invites multiple prophecies which could get out of hand and sink the series. Also, I see Ginny as a much more physical character, who prefers doing things and making plans, not so dreamy or ethereal. I do like the idea of Ginny becoming a healer. That would be cool, and a healer would bring a new dynamic to Harry's little group.

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Post  Elanor Wed May 04, 2011 10:14 am

Madame Librarian - Sep 10, 2003 3:41 pm (#51 of 2152)
OK, I'm out on a limb here, but on another Forum and on previous posts on EZ, there was a discussion of Ginny and a cat, specifically your friend and mine, Crookshanks. In OoP there are a few little vingnettes of Ginny (described as ginger-haired), of Ginny curled up like a cat before the fire, of Ginny playing (as did Crookshanks) with the butterbeer corks in an absent-minded way. She has a pretty close relationship with Crookshanks--he (is C. a he?) likes Ginny and snuggles nicely in her lap when everyone is hanging out in the kitchen at Grimmauld Place. Yes, I know that he's Hermione's cat, but nobody really owns a cat, they just let you think you own them.

So, what does that leave us? A suggestion maybe that Ginny is "studying" Crookshanks in order to become a cat animagus? Maybe Crookshanks is advising Ginny on things magical given his not-just-being-a-cat status (cat + Kneazle). Sort of "mentoring" her. Finally, even though JKR has not raised the issue of witches and their "familiars," perhaps that is developing here.

I personally never thought of Ginny=seer, but I don't read too analytically until the 4th or 5th reading (not there yet). I didn't catch any hints or cues. But, once I read the stuff earlier on Ginny and the cat, it clicked with me.

What thinkest thee?

Ciao. Barb

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St. Mana - Sep 10, 2003 3:46 pm (#52 of 2152)

May the Lord have mercy on your tortured soul.
Yo, maybe Ginny just likes cats. But you might be onto something with the familiar thing.

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Denise P. - Sep 10, 2003 3:47 pm (#53 of 2152)

Ravenclaw Pony
Me thinkest that although Ginny could study Crookshanks until thestrals came home, it would not help her become an animage cat. JKR has said that the wizard has no choice in what form they take as an animage. I also don't think that Crookshanks has any mental abilities that allows him to commune with Ginny in any way other than a normal cat way.

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TGF - Sep 10, 2003 3:52 pm (#54 of 2152)

Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Well, Denise, what's to say that her Animagus form isn't that of a cat? As people have pointed out, she does act rather cat-ish. But why would Ginny want to become an Animagus? It's a lot of work and the only reason the Marauders did so was so that they could interact with Lupin... Unless there's like a Werecat around, Ginny has no practical reason to become an Animagus.

EDIT: Think Ginny will become a Prefect in Book 6? No one's brought that up...

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Madame Librarian - Sep 10, 2003 4:14 pm (#55 of 2152)

TGF, you ask why Ginny would want to become an Animagus. Is there no advantage to being able to take the form of an animal? I can think of some situations where it would be helpful, of course, depending on the animal. And, remember McGonagall is a cat Animagus (which is an argument why Ginny would not be one if JKR didn't want to repeat that device). She (McG) shifts to her cat form at least once that we know of to keep an eye on things on Privet Drive. And, hey, Wormtail, certainly thinks being a rat is better than being arrested or dead.

Ciao. Barb

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S.E. Jones - Sep 10, 2003 4:16 pm (#56 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Hm, I kind of like this idea. Maybe Fred and George made that comment about Ginny's bat-boogie curse to show that she has enough magic in her to figure out how to do the transformation....

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TGF - Sep 10, 2003 4:20 pm (#57 of 2152)

Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Yes, but for every case other than McGonagall, we've a distinct motivation for becoming an Animagus... For the Marauders, there's Lupin... For Skeeter, there's the spying opportunities... I'm sure McGonagall has one too (though she seems to be the only one who signed up)... It sounds to me that becoming an Animagus is something that requires real dedication and effort. It isn't just whimsical, as in 'Oh well, if I could do this it'd be pretty nice'.

After all, if it were easy to do, every wizard would be an Animagus.

EDIT: Again - Ginny... Prefect... Any thoughts?

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Denise P. - Sep 10, 2003 4:39 pm (#58 of 2152)

Ravenclaw Pony
Her animage form could be a cat, if she became one. I was only pointing out that all the studying in the world would not make her become a CAT if she was an animage, if that was not to be her form. Clear as mud, huh?

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Marye Lupin - Sep 10, 2003 4:41 pm (#59 of 2152)

"I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind! The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building." Peanuts
TGF-- I think there's a pretty good chance of Ginny becomming a prefect. She seems smart, doesn't get in too much trouble (or at least doesn't get caught) and in OoP she really started to stand out more. I think she'd make a great family. Imagine Mrs. Weasley's reaction! That'd be everybody in the family--except Fred and George, who, as we all know are really next-door-neighboors (Ha, ha, alright, bad joke, I shouldn't be allowed to make jokes on an empty stomach)

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Slytherin Prefect - Sep 10, 2003 4:44 pm (#60 of 2152)

Also known as Chuda Jurian of the Snake Clan
As Ginny is my second-favorite character, I should chime in on the prefect debate. I REALLY don't see her becoming a prefect, and here's why...

We're exposed to this 'new Ginny' in book 5 for the first time at Grimmauld Place. In that context we hear about how she's throwing dungbombs at the door to check for protective charms.

Throughout the rest of the book, we continually see her character develop more to look like Fred and George than any other Weasley family member. Fred and George even speak highly of her.

With the mantle of "troublemaker-in-chief" vacated, and Ginny's new cavalier attitude about the rules, I really don't see a prefect badge on her school robes any time soon. ^_^

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S.E. Jones - Sep 10, 2003 4:48 pm (#61 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Oh dear, think what it would do to poor Fred and George to have their little Ginny made a prefect... It's kill them!

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TGF - Sep 10, 2003 4:51 pm (#62 of 2152)

Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Well, then who will be the forth year prefects then? Or perhaps that should be brought to another thread...

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Marye Lupin - Sep 10, 2003 4:54 pm (#63 of 2152)

"I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind! The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building." Peanuts
Yes, but the thing is none of the adults (who are the ones who decide who becomes prefect) seem to have discovered the troublemaker side of Ginny (Like I said, she's much better at not getting caught than her brothers).

Of course you could argue that Dumbledore knows everything but I think that, except in certain circumstances, the decision of who makes Gryffindor prefect is really up to McGonagall, not Dumbledore otherwise I doubt Malfoy would have really become Slytherin Prefect.

EDIT: Wow, this has happened 5 times tonight! sorry TGF, I didn't see your last post.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 10, 2003 4:58 pm (#64 of 2152)

Let it snow!
I wasn't saying that Ginny couldn't become a 5th year prefect, TGF, just that Fred and George wouldn't take it well, not that that would bother her much....

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TGF - Sep 10, 2003 5:00 pm (#65 of 2152)

Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Well, you weren't, but SP was... though again, I suppose speculating about the prefects in Ginny's year is something for another thread. I think I'll go make it now.

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Professor Kosh - Sep 10, 2003 10:22 pm (#66 of 2152)

Instructor, Defense Against the Dark Arts
Actually, TGF, I think its very possible that Ginny will become a prefect. She has shown herself to be smart, capable. I certainly don't see her following the Fred-George model, although she has learned things from them. I don't remember her acting that much at all like them, really. I highly doubt she'll assume the role of 'trouble-maker-in-chief'. I suspect her character may be more like the older siblings (Bill or Charlie), with a dash of Molly thrown in.

She may have a disregard for the rules, but so does Ron, and he made it. She disregards the rules to get certain things done, not to cause chaos and fun like Fred-George.

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Water Witch - Sep 11, 2003 1:59 am (#67 of 2152)

I totally agree with this assessment, I think that Harry will return as Seeker and Ginny will take up a place as Chaser which she gives as her preferred position anyway. I guess that some of the other Chasers must be leaving at the end of OotP.

I do wonder though about size and the Seeker position. Seekers are supposed to be small and quick and Harry is described as having grown a good deal. I wonder if at some point he is going to get too big for the role.

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haymoni - Sep 11, 2003 5:21 am (#68 of 2152)

I agree with Professor Kosh - "Living with Fred and George makes you think that anything is possible" - I don't see Ginny using magic to goof off. I think her experience with Voldemort has impacted her as well. I think she'd make a great Prefect.

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Donna Bright - Sep 14, 2003 4:59 am (#69 of 2152)

Hmm, all this speculation about Ginny...shall I join in?

Ginny is the 7th child but are we sure she is the 7th child of a 7th child? Don't know, but she is certainly coming into her own. She reminds me a bit of what Lily is like in OotP. Not afraid to speak her mind and be a bit of someone's conscience, yet secretly smiling.

As to her relationship with Harry, well, I think she is growing up. And I believe, her love for Harry is growing by leaps and bounds. One of the reasons she doesn't show this to him is that if she reveals this then she could become a weapon for Voldemort to use. She cares for Harry too much for this to become known. And I think that she is using the other boys to make Harry jealous. Her quiet admiration and waiting for Harry to notice her didn't work. So she is using reverse psychology on him. (Incidentally, I think that Hermione is using the same tactic with Ron, via her relationship with Krum. After all, she only refers to Krum when Ron is around.)

Well, there are other things I could say, but since it is Sunday and I need to get ready for church...

D

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Sly Girl - Sep 14, 2003 12:19 pm (#70 of 2152)

I gotta disagree with you Donna, I don't think Ginny is that manipulative. I think if she does do any of that stuff, with the other boys etc, (which mind you I don't think she's doing, but that's another arguement) it's youth and I honestly don't see her sitting in her room trying to come up with ways for Harry to 'like' her.

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Laurel Carmer - Sep 15, 2003 2:38 pm (#71 of 2152)

I think Ginny will be become a prefect simply because JKR has not named any of the other Gryffindor girls in Ginny's year. All of the prefects named, in all the houses, in book five, were people who were already named.

I don't think Ginny is using other boys to make Harry jealous. I think Michael Corner (unable to resist the Weasley charm ) asked her out, and Ginny just thought, "Oh, well, why not?" She hasn't "given up on Harry" as Hermione said, she still loves him. As we've seen now, she is good at keeping secrets. Dating, especially at 14/15, doesn't mean you're going to marry that person.

And I think she was kidding about Dean Thomas.

Laurel

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Olivia Wood - Sep 15, 2003 8:27 pm (#72 of 2152)

Undisputable evidence: Hermione is an alien.
Where have we heard of Anthony Goldstein before OoP?

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Donna Bright - Sep 16, 2003 8:38 am (#73 of 2152)

Sly Girl, I wasn't saying Ginny is being manipulative. That has such a negative connotation. What I meant was, that Ginny is using a time honored and tested method of getting a boy to like you. I have a teenaged daughter, and have heard her talking to her friends about how to get a boy to notice and/or like you. They are not above using that tactic.

I also think that there is much more going on than just her getting him to like her. I think in the future books there will be a definate draw toward each other. But, now here is where the dramatic tension comes in, they are both going to be very aware of how this relationship will affect Harry's battle with Voldemort. I can see them fighting against their mutual attraction so as not to put the other in danger. (Am I getting too melodramatic here? Even as I read this, I find that I getting dangerously close to a romance novel plot.)

Oh well, I guess that shows everyone how much I have enjoyed these stories and will continue to. It is the mark of a good writer, when characters "come alive" and you care so deeply about them.

D - ;D

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S.E. Jones - Sep 16, 2003 4:34 pm (#74 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Olivia: "Where have we heard of Anthony Goldstein before OoP?"

Well, that depends. Both he and Micheal Corner were on a list shown in a biography video of JKR (although Corner was shown as a Hufflepuff, we think). There were others on that list that weren't in the book's sorting ceremony.

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skh - Sep 18, 2003 6:34 am (#75 of 2152)

Regarding the 7th child thing, I am from the west of Ireland, where traditionally it is the 7th son of the 7th son who is a healer. As the west of Ireland is an area where large families are not unusual, but becoming less common, it now seems that 7th child is allowed. However, the ability is always healing(normally it is the gift of healing "untreatable" conditions, like ringworm or oral thrush in babies i.e. fungus and bacterial infections - there might now be conventiaonal medcine available to treat these conditions, but they are relatively new-ish, 10 - 20 years), which gives the option of Ginny becoming a healer. I think however that Neville will be the healer, due to his existing links with St. Mungo's and his parents condition etc.

Ginny - I do think it likely that Ginny is the woman for Harry. Do you think Lily is related to the Weasleys in any way? Not likely, I know, but the red hair...

I don't see Ginny as a Seer, but hey! I'm wrong on most things...

Sarah

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haymoni - Sep 18, 2003 7:28 am (#76 of 2152)

When Tonks changed her nose, she looked like a female Dudley.

When she had long hair, she looked like Ginny's older sister.

Is Tonks the link between Harry's family and the Weasleys?

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skh - Sep 18, 2003 7:52 am (#77 of 2152)

I don't think so, I think she can just change at will and having Dudders nose was an amusing thing to do, whereas looking like a Weasley was flattering (to the Weasleys). I think the links between the Dursleys and the Weasleys are (A) Harry himself, as a member of both families (mooly sees him as a son with the boggart and he is Petunia's nephew) and (B) Lily, as she is also described in similar ways to the Weasleys - red hair etc. Maybe Lily is related to Molly some how, and Harry doesn't know?!! This could be how she saw him as being killed by her boggart with her family? A theory that belongs in the Molly thread I guess..

Sarah

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schoff - Sep 18, 2003 8:50 am (#78 of 2152)

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
SE: Liz Mann tried to figure out that list last year. You're right, she lists Michael Corner as a Hufflepuff. Interestingly, Anthony Goldstein is also listed as a Hufflepuff, even though he's a Ravenclaw prefect in OoP. Here's a link to the post.

Liz Mann "The sorting hat conundrum" 12/30/02 6:08pm

The posts around hers are an interesting read, too.

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Sly Girl - Sep 18, 2003 11:05 am (#79 of 2152)

>Regarding the 7th child thing, I am from the west of Ireland, where traditionally it is the 7th son of the 7th son who is a healer. As the west of Ireland is an area where large families are not unusual, but becoming less common, it now seems that 7th child is allowed. <<


The idea of the 7th child/7th son is actually Romanian- although other countries do have such a superstition as well. While I was researching it, I actually found that it was originally CHILD instead of son, but due to patriachal influence (the son and the man being the most important to families (and the daughter being thought of as property) of a certain time period) it was then switched to SON instead of child. So the use of the word child actually pre-dates the idea of it having to be the son. Just FYI.

Also, following the Romanian legend, it was both seer and healer, that the child would be, but it's interesting to note which countries and ideologies have switched it around.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 18, 2003 3:29 pm (#80 of 2152)

Let it snow!
"However, the ability is always healing(normally it is the gift of healing "untreatable" conditions....

Hm, "untreatable" conditions? You mean like insanity?.... The Longbottoms may stand a chance after all....

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Maollelujah - Sep 18, 2003 11:50 pm (#81 of 2152)

It is also a Romanian belief that the seventh child (of the same sex) born to a seventh child (of the same sex) is a vampire. Maybe she is a vampire.

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skh - Sep 19, 2003 6:22 am (#82 of 2152)

Sly Girl - to my mind, the Irish version of the 7th child thing is more Maollelujah's thing, with the asme sex thing. I remember telling my mum back when I was in primary school that a neighbour was a healer and some one in my class had been brought to him, and she pooh-poohed the notion, as he was one of 6 boys and 1 girl - but maybe that's because my mum was from a different village and they had a different theory!!

Rural Ireland was often a matriarchal society, by the way, in the Irish speaking areas women kept their names (it's all very mixed up though, what with English rule and all that, so it's a bit anything goes!).

Anyway, to counter my own argument totally, I don't see Ginny as a healer.

(SE Jones, I'm racking my brain to thing of instances where "insane" people were brought to the 7th son of a 7th son for healing, but I can't think of any, am off home to the West tomorrow, will quiz my Dad on this theory, it would be intereting!!)

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siobhan - Sep 19, 2003 2:51 pm (#83 of 2152)

I've never heard about women keeping their names in the west (i'm from the mid-west) thats really interesting. My parents are very superstitious and religious so i was taken to a healer when i had pluracy and she hadn't even any siblings. Weird experience though. She kept throwing Holy water and me and muttering.I thought she was a nut. I hope Ginny doesn't turn out to be like her. I like her too much. I prefer the whole seer theory

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skh - Sep 23, 2003 6:40 am (#84 of 2152)

Siobhan - I was thinking of good old Peig! Also, in Gaeltacht areas, female family names are often followed, although am not sure how it works, as am mid-west myself. Anyhow, that's off-topic, I still think Neville is the healer and will be involved in "rescuing" his parents and am totally unsure that Ginny will be a seer, although I do think her brush with Voldie will have big implications in the series.

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siobhan - Sep 23, 2003 12:12 pm (#85 of 2152)

Thank God I don't have to study Peig it seems to be the bane of every students existance. Any way i like the Neville idea. I think that such importance wouldn't have been put on his parents unless they play a major role in Neville's future or maybe i'm just wishing for the impossible. As for Ginny's seer theory i can't see it happening as she has shown no signs of predicting stuff.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 23, 2003 12:36 pm (#86 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Siobhan, you may want to brush up on the Philosophy of this Forum a bit (the "i" instead of "I" thing). Just a heads up....

I agree with you about Neville's parents having a huge impact on his future and I think you should really bring that up in the Neville thread. It'll be interesting to see what everyone's ideas are on how that could work....

And Ginny. Hm, what to say about Ginny. Well, if JK does make her a seer, I just hope she goes back and shows us all the clues somehow, otherwise I'll feel really cheated. Hey, JK said that she had to lay alot of clues in this book so it didn't appear like things came out of the blue. Is there anything in OotP that may point to something in Ginny's future?

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Madame Librarian - Sep 23, 2003 12:48 pm (#87 of 2152)

I mentioned this before, possibly on Annex 2, the connection between Ginny and Crookshanks. It generated a bit of comment that might be worth reviewing. I'll check the "search" mode now and get back here ASAP if I can find it.

Ciao. Barb

Edit: Well, the ol' brain cells are indeed not in high gear right now because...um...it was only a week or so ago that it was mentioned. *sighs in acceptance of limitations*

Check post #51 this thread. I do think there was something longer that got discussed a while back. Does the search function here bounce back to the older forums? At any rate you get the point.

Ciao. Barb, again

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Hem Hem - Sep 25, 2003 8:17 pm (#88 of 2152)

The search function searches this entire forum, encluded the area that are archived. Unfortunately, it only searches World Crossings, and not the threads at ezboard. However, we must be grateful for what we have. After all, the search function at ezboard would only let you search one folder at a time, so it wasn't very helpful at all.

It is in the long-range plans of the staff to compile all the worthwhile threads of the archived sections here and at both ezboards forums. I'm not sure of too much else about these plans, though. I don't think this task is anywhere near completion.

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Sly Girl - Sep 26, 2003 2:08 pm (#89 of 2152)

I think Ginny's comparison to cats/Crookshanks is just something JKR has done to make us realize that Ginny's character is independent and a bit cleverer than she appears to be at first glance. It's easy to overlook Ginny because she's the youngest Weasley (and a girl to boot) and she's not in Harry's year, but I think she will play an important part to the rest of the story. I think Ginny is an interesting character- she seems to have the smarts of Percy (come one, git though he was, he did get a lot of O.W.L.s) the ability to cause trouble like George and Fred and the heart or emotion of Ron. (I'd throw in Charlie and Bill too, but those are the Weasley's we know the least about.) I, for one, can't wait to see where JKR goes with her character. I've always loved Ginny, from book 2, so I'm excited!

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Gily Ann - Sep 29, 2003 3:07 pm (#90 of 2152)

Sly_Girl I believe you.

I am a firm believer that Ginny is a seer! OoP just cemented this idea for me. I never believed that Ron was a seer.

In case you are all wondering why I believe this.

It's all on the subtle hints and some not so subtle. First is the the fact that Ginny is a 7th child. I went to many history classes and I'm sure that 7th were considers seers regardless of the sex. In gypsy mithology a 'LITTLE GIRL' with red hair was consider to have the power to see the future.

In CoS all of the people that were attacted had a way of not looking at the basilisk in the eyes. While it may have been coincidence the problem is that in 5 books we haven't seen Hermione with a mirror on her hands. She wasn't coming from the Gryffindor tower so she got the mirror on the way. Weird enough she is found with Penelope which we have never seen her talking. I can assume that the mirror came from Penelope.

JKR has a huge hole (or a is a clue, maybe) IMO in the fact that Moaning Mirtle wears glasses and all the other people had a thinner things that moaning mirtle. Even thru a ghost. It doesn't seem to *me* practical to discouss the layers of a camera or a ghost. It seems as there is something else not allowing the basilisk to kill those people.

Riddle's remark that Ginny had deepest fears and darkest secrets was also a clue that something was 'wrong' with Ginny. No 11 year old that has been extremelly protected like Ginny could have darkest secrets. She lives in a house with 9 people how could she keep a secret? What are the this darkest secrets? Dark refers to something obscure and rare. Which brings me to the point of the diary. when Harry and Ron found that diary. Ron immediatly advise Harry to be careful. Ron doesn't seem found of the diary. But Ginny falls right in it. Why? She doesn't suspect the diary, nor does she finds it weird. I knew Ginny wasn't stupid from the beginning of the book. So how could this slip by her?

Perhaps is because there is something else that is happening with Ginny that isn't normal. Yet she is very scared that people may find out. It's the reason why she steels the diary. Funny thing is that even though she liked Harry in CoS. It wasn't the fact that Riddle could say to Harry that Ginny fancied him what worried her. It worried her that he may repeat her secrets. No mention of what she felt for Harry there. She was scared of her secrets and her fears. Why? It still doesn't seem normal for a 11 year old girl.

In PoA we have McGonagall statement that real seers are hard to find. Meaning that Trewlaney isn't one of those true seers.

In GoF Ginny was with the twins before they found out the QWC result. Knowing JKR's writting I know that it couldn't have been a coincidence. In the same book in the Dark Mark chapter there is a reference of Fred's grabbing Ginny's arm. What does this has to with Ginny being a seer? Well in history people used to follow cats to a safe hideout in times of storms. This because they were able to seek for the safest places to hide out.

In OoP were the most references about her possibly being a seer. The constant comparison about a cat. Here is a piece of what I posted in another forum of this:

Before the Inquisition the mithology consider cats to be deities. Killing one was punishable with death. Cats were the object of Religious devotions for quite a long time. This began by the Goddest Bastet that was usually portrayed with the body of a woman and the head of the cat, she was worshiped as the personification of fertility and healing. All cats came down not only to be remember not only as symbols of Bastet but as Gods themselves. Killing one by even accident was as I said punishable by death.

Some say Egyptian cat worship frenzy stemmed from the facts that cats protected granaries and other palces where food was stored from becoming overrun by rodents.



*And having observed cats killing deadly vipers. (which hints you out at something of CoS) Egyptians came to believe the cat was the natural enemy of the snake , a traditional symbol of evil.**


*The cats excellent night vision, and the way it's eyes can eerily reflect light, led to the idea that cats were clairvoyant. If they could see in the dark, why couldn't they read minds or look into the future.**

Ginny is mention to have the firelight reflected on her eyes. She talks to Harry about Ron "as if able to read his mind" or something like that. She answers peoples questions and makes remarks sometimes so fast that it almost sounds as if she knows what they are going to say.

I also think that Ginny may be unaware of her power. She may think that she is just plain weird.

Gily Ann

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Caitlin McCoy - Sep 29, 2003 4:13 pm (#91 of 2152)

Fierce are the winds that I blow before me
You're statements, Gily Ann, bring about alot of thought. I think that one of the main fears/secrets was her attraction to Harry, and there wasn't really anyone in her household with whom she could talk about that to without getting laughed at or waved off. And there is the same problem that Ron had to begin with - being the youngest, there is quite alot she may have felt she needed to live up to. How would she make her mark at Hogwarst? But I think that Ginny is now coming into her own. I, for one, am glad to go along for the ride.

~Caitlin

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::StinkerBell:: - Sep 29, 2003 8:09 pm (#92 of 2152)

Use to be LongLiveSnuffles.....
Its very possible, most of your thoughts make lots of sense. I wouldent be too sure She is a seere, but hey, any things possible.

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virgoddess1313 - Sep 30, 2003 3:44 pm (#93 of 2152)

Ginny is such a great character... she's grown so much from the little girl we first saw in CoS. I think she is going to mature into a rather formidable talent, seer or not.

And I'd still like to see her and Harry together at some point. Can't help it. It would be just too cute.

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timrew - Sep 30, 2003 3:53 pm (#94 of 2152)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
I always thought that Ginny would come to be a star.....just like Neville.

The girl has talent, charisma....and since she's got over her tongue-tied obsession with Harry, independence.

She'll go a long way......at least until book 7!

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Lenka - Oct 1, 2003 5:03 am (#95 of 2152)

ahhhh essays
Yeah, I agree. Ginny somehow became more mature than Ron and Hermione, all of sudden. There are all those scenes when Ron and Hermione get stuck, and Ginny gets this briliant idea ("hem hem" in the Hog's head meeting, or when she talked to Harry after Mr. Weasley was attacked whil Ron stared at his hands).

Actually (Ginny fans, don't kill me please) I think she's becoming a natural leader, getting along with people very well... almost like Tom Riddle who left a bit of his soul in her...

So. Is Ginny becoming like Tom?

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fidelio - Oct 1, 2003 6:29 am (#96 of 2152)

Maybe she's becoming a bit like--Bill. You know, the oldest brother, the first Head Boy in the family, the curse-breaker for Gringott's--the cool gut with the fang earring.

We don't know lots about Bill, but he can't have been Head Boy without leadership and organizational skills; based on what the little pamphlet [remember the careers counseling stuff in OotP] said about the requirements to be hired as a curse-breaker, he's bright, powerful, and well-trained; and he's decisive--remember his exit in GoF, when he went off to talk to his father at once, and the transfer to London, to a desk job, at the start of OotP? He's also attractive to the opposite sex--if you recall Fleur's reaction to him before the final trial in GoF, she may have been pursuing him, rather than the other way around--and somehow I think Mlle Delacour is used to the boys chasing her, rather than vice versa!

Percy may have been too well-behaved to get into trouble at school, but I'll bet Bill was too smart and too smooth to get caught--not the same thing at all.

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Denise P. - Oct 1, 2003 6:36 am (#97 of 2152)

Ravenclaw Pony
Since I doubt that Ginny has any fond memories of being possessed by Tom, I think she would run screaming in horror if she ever felt she was becoming like him.

Ginny is a strong willed individual who, to this point, has always been behind the scenes acting. In OoP, she came to the front of the class and is showing us what she is made of.

It began with cooly lying to her mother about the dungbombs thrown at the door. "It was Crookshanks". The twins confirm she has a temper and the means to make good on her temper (Her bat-bogey hex). She is only willing to take so much from Harry before she brings him down a peg or two. She introduced Harry to Luna, on the train, which lead to a friendship/alliance between Luna and the gang.

Ginny is a smart cookie, I don't think she will make the same mistakes Tom did because she has enough things around her to ground her.

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skh - Oct 2, 2003 6:39 am (#98 of 2152)

I would have to agree with the above comments, I think Ginny is too smart (and probably too frightened after her CoS experiences) and too grounded to easily fall into being more like Tom.

I also think she is very mature for her age - she always makes me smile when she gets Harry and Ron to see sense, is so funny! It could come across as bossy but never does, just as smart (unlike Hermione, for example) and I also love the way Ginny and Hermione sometimes pair up (sometimes you can nearly hear them rolling their eyes to heaven and muttering "men!" under their breaths - am thinking of the ball in GoF, for example).

Anyway, am looking forward to seeing what becomes of Ginny as a character. I do think that half the reason the point is deliberatily made to us about seers being rare etc. is that because some one is going to become a seer. I think it's probably Ginny, am looking forward to finding out!

Sarah

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Madame Librarian - Oct 2, 2003 9:27 am (#99 of 2152)

Are we sure that Ginny has no memory of being possesssed by Riddle/V.?

That comeback she gives to Harry in OoP when he's kvetching about nobody knowing how he feels have V. in his head, implied that she did have some memory of the experience, and it was horrible.

Sorry--can't give the exact chapter/page/quote right now (shhh--I'm at work, all the OoPs are checked out, naturally).

Ciao. Barb

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Sly Girl - Oct 2, 2003 11:30 am (#100 of 2152)

Ginny probably does still have SOME memory- I mean she is aware it happened and can remember the signs or symptoms, well enough. Heck, she probably had nightmares for awhile. Makes me wonder- would her family have done a Memory Charm on her to protect her? To make it easier on her to 'get over'?

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Madame Librarian - Oct 2, 2003 2:55 pm (#101 of 2152)
Yes, Sly Girl, considering what Harry and friends have all gone through, it's a miracle they don't all have post traumatic stress disorder. It must be a particularly magical quality to be able to treat shaken up kids with things like chocolate (for Dementors, remember).

On 2nd thought, Harry does display some really negative behavior in OoP that most of us have agreed is due to a combination of his terrible experiences, emotional abuse, lack of sleep, downright terror, pain, you name it. Ginny is also different--she has a thicker skin and slightly more acerbic tone, and, of course, we know she's no longer mommie's little girl.

Ciao. Barb

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Hem Hem - Oct 2, 2003 5:51 pm (#102 of 2152)

Ginny doesn't fully remember Tom's poseesion of her, but she does say that "the last thing I r-remember was him coming out of the diary..."

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mollis - Oct 3, 2003 1:02 pm (#103 of 2152)

Edited by Oct 3, 2003 1:03 pm
I am sure that she does remember waking up and not knowing where she was or what she had been doing. That would be enough to cause significant mental damage I would think. Wondering what you had been doing and then hearing of all the awful things happening and then thinking that it might be you. I am sure Ginny had an awful time that year and it took a bit to recover from, if she really is fully recovered.

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Donna Bright - Oct 3, 2003 3:46 pm (#104 of 2152)

Ginny may not have total recall about what happened to her when possessed by Tom Riddle, but she is certainly aware that she was possessed. In the ensuing years between her close call and the adventures in OotP, I am sure Ron or Hermione probably told her all the gory details.

Ginny comes from a wonderfully close and loving family. I am sure that Molly and Arthur and all her brothers (yes, Percy included, he wasn't always such a git.) have been there to help her through the difficult recovery. She seems to have recovered herself rather well.

It is my belief that this is also going to play into her relationship with Harry later on. JKR has this story so well plotted out, that I cannot help but get that feeling as things introduced in certain stories play into others.

There are some wonderful surprises in store for us.

D

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MoaningMyrtle101 - Oct 10, 2003 3:33 pm (#105 of 2152)

Wasn't she in the room when Harry told his story of what had happened in the Chamber and how he had found out what the Monster was? Or had she already been taken to the Hospital wing? If she was in the room, she wouldn't have had to wait for Ron or Hermione to tell her--she could have heard it straight from Harry.

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Donna Bright - Oct 11, 2003 4:26 am (#106 of 2152)

You are right, Myrtle. She was there when Harry told everyone what happened in the chamber. (Short term memory is the first thing to go as one ages!) Still, she would need to talk things out. She was pretty devastated. After all, she was only 11.

I think, also, that she could have probably regained knowledge of what happened while she was possessed. Harry does have flashes of the night his parents were murdered. The human brain is a wondrous thing. It can retain memories that don't resurface for years until something triggers it.

I still think this will play into a relationship with Harry later on. Harry and Ginny are the only two who have had such intimate contact with LV. This has created a bond between them. If Ron is as serious as I think he is about Harry and Ginny getting together, I think he will realize this and point it out to Harry in the hopes that Harry will take this to heart.

Of course, my romantic tendencies are showing again, aren't they?

D

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Hermionefan(#1) - Oct 29, 2003 5:20 pm (#107 of 2152)

missing my picture!!!!! *cry cry cry*
I know this is short, but I think Ginny will grow up and join Fred and George in Weasly's Wizarding Wheezes.

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Mrs. Sirius - Oct 29, 2003 10:21 pm (#108 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Water Witch, great essay, so eloquently said. I have said it before, though not nearly as well put, there is something really special about Ginny. She wasn't on platform on 9 3/4 in PS/SS without good reason. Each of the Weasleys with a significant relationship with Harry so far, was there that day! For Ginny to cry on that platform as the train pulls away it begs to signify more than missing her brothers, IMP. It's nice to see someone else share that.

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Water Witch - Oct 30, 2003 2:29 am (#109 of 2152)

Thank you Mrs Sirius. I loved writing the essay and didn't intend in to be shippy. I just wanted people to like Ginny and make them 'think twice'.

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Ladybug220 - Oct 30, 2003 8:47 am (#110 of 2152)

...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Here is the link to Water Witch's essay. It really gives us something to think about. Great essay Water Witch.

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timrew - Oct 30, 2003 11:16 am (#111 of 2152)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
An excellent essay, Water Witch. I always thought there was something about Ginny; not just because of the 'brief encounter' on the platform at the start of Philosopher's Stone; but also on Harry's first visit to the Burrow, where he is confronted by a tongue-tied Ginny.

Ron says to Harry, "You don't know how weird it is for her to be this shy, she never shuts up normally -".

I knew then that she was going to blossom into something special.

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Maollelujah - Oct 30, 2003 6:05 pm (#112 of 2152)

Water Witch, the essay is even better if you actually like Ginny. I found myself nodding my head saying "Yeah," or "That's right," at a lot of the points you made. Smile

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- Aug 24, 2008 4:54 pm (#113 of 2152)



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Essidji - Nov 13, 2003 8:02 am (#114 of 2152)

Water Witch, I haven't read your essay yet (that'll be done in a while!), but I share the ideas above about the bonds between her an Harry. Also, I found in the OotP that, since she is less interested in Harry, she is much more interesting. It's nice to discover her true personality. I believe some day, she will catch Harry's attention, not as Ron's sister, but as the appealing girl she is.

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Sly Girl - Nov 24, 2003 3:04 pm (#115 of 2152)

Okay, I was reading the Prophecy thread and they were speculating about Tom and his ability to produce a spell while still in 'memory' form and it got me to thinking- we know Tom was basically draining Ginny of her lifeforce (for lack of better word) to make himself flesh and bone again, right? And we have always assumed that Ginny has a bit of Riddle still within her or at least, can remember bits and pieces of what it felt like to be taken over by him- but what if parts of Ginny are within the memory of Tom? I know, the memory was destroyed... but what if it wasn't? What if giving the diary back to Malfoy was a mistake? I can't think of a way or reason that Voldemort would need the memory of 'Tom Riddle' to assist him now that he is back in bodily form, but it still makes me wonder. Anyone else? Or have I set sail alone on this one?



Madame Librarian - Nov 24, 2003 3:16 pm (#116 of 2152) [/b]
Yes, Sly Girl, I worry, too, about that diary. It should never have been given back to Lucius. It was something that made me say "uh, oh," right away when I read that scene.

Ciao. Barb

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Wendelin the Weird - Nov 24, 2003 11:25 pm (#117 of 2152)

burned at the stake 47 times and counting...
Didn't Lucius hand the diary to Dobby though, hence where he got the sock? Dobby was then freed and fought Lucius off so do we know that Malfoy has the diary? Wish I had book 2 with me...

And I 100% agree with the Harry/Ginny pairing. Its interesting that when she is head over heels for him she is too shy for him to get to know her, but now she is being herself and I have no doubt that he will fall for her. YAY! She is a great character and has great strength and wit, not to mention has so much in common with Harry. I foresee him realizing this later on and it will be a scenario much like how James was crushing over Lily but she wasnt sure she wanted to have anything to do with him at that point (obviously she decided later that she did).

Oh! And here is something that came to me this morning out of the blue after talking about 'having as many children as it might take to have a son to pass on a family name'. Could it be possible that there might be another prophesy out there dealing with the Weasley's having a daughter who would have a role in vanquishing the Dark Lord? I mean, have we any idea why there are so many Weasley boys, yet they kept having children until tah dah! A GIRL! Its possible that they sacrificed their livlihood to keep trying until they had a daughter for reasons other than Molly wanting a child to dress in cute little witchie clothes. Does anyone think Im leaping off the deep end, or could there be something to this? Hmmmm... Id like to think its possible... could be a good reason for Lucius Malfoy to single her out with a diary and to constantly sneer and demean the Weasley's about how many children they have. Something to think about.

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Joost! - Nov 25, 2003 5:34 am (#118 of 2152)

Second line of information
Sly Girl, I had been thinking the same thing and posted it on the "Clues in the Movies about What's Coming in Books 6 & 7" thread. And the reply of most people was that Dumbledore wouldn't let Lucius get the Diary back if there was there was still a way Voldemort could use it. I have to agree with these people, although I won't be surprised if the Diary would return in the last books...

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Madame Librarian - Nov 25, 2003 8:45 am (#119 of 2152)

Sly Girl, I read and re-read the scene where Dobby is given the sock to make sure I understood who really ended up with the diary. Here's what transpired (I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the book handy).

As Lucius turns to leave, Harry, who is holding the diary, slips off his grungy sock and stuffs the diary into it. He throws it to Lucius, who, as expected, yanks the sock off the book and, in disgust, tosses the sock away. Dobby catches the sock and is freed. Lucius tries to command Dobby to follow, but, of course, the elf stands pat. Lucius is furious and whips out his wand to curse Harry. Dobby zaps Lucius who tumbles down the stairs. As far as I can tell, Lucius still has the diary when all is said and done.

There is a possibilty that he dropped it when he falls down the stairs, but absolutely no further mention of it is made just then. My only option is to assume that Lucius is still clutching it when he leaves.

I'm still worried about it.

Ciao. Barb

EDIT: In the movie version, Harry puts the sock into the diary, and Lucius grabs it out and tosses the sock away, but the next few actions are the same. I suppose they figured it'd take Harry a bit too long to stuff the book into the sock. (Wouldn't that be a hilarious outtake with Daniel trying to get the thing in?)

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A-is-for-Amy - Nov 25, 2003 10:31 am (#120 of 2152)

Mom of 2 boys
If the diary was really still dangerous, would Dumbledore really have given Harry permission to return it to Malfoy? I wonder if Ginny is also being watched much more carefully than she is aware of since she may now host a part of Tom Riddle inside?

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Sly Girl - Nov 25, 2003 10:58 am (#121 of 2152)

Hmm.. interesting. The first time we hear Ginny actively offer information about being taken over by Riddle is in OOTP. I think there's a reason for this, (besides it allowing JKR to have Ginny tell Harry to basically stop being a prat). I just can't figure out what. (Brilliant of me, I know! ha!) What would be the pluses of having a Voldemort/Ginny connection for the plot?

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S.E. Jones - Nov 25, 2003 11:26 am (#122 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Sly Girl: The first time we hear Ginny actively offer information about being taken over by Riddle is in OOTP. I think there's a reason for this.... I just can't figure out what.... What would be the pluses of having a Voldemort/Ginny connection for the plot?

Well, it provides Harry another solid base to form a good friendship outside of our main Trio: With Neville, he shares a very common history (both possible subjects of the prophecy, both losing their parents due to Voldemort and his DEs, etc). With Luna, he shares a common emotion -- hope -- she introduces him to the idea of an after life by reminding him of the voices behind the veil and giving him the possibility that he may yet see Sirius and his other loved ones again, that they're not just gone forever. And now, with Ginny, he shares a common past in their domination by Voldemort. She was possessed by him in CoS and forced to do what he wanted; Harry was manipulated by Voldemort's mind, feared being possessed by him, and was coerced into doing what Voldemort wanted..... Basically, JKR had to supplement a lot to make up for the four years of history that HRH have to make any of the new friendships even remotely as close as our Trio's (though these new friendships may never be as strong as Ron and Hermione's bond with Harry)....

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Madame Librarian - Nov 25, 2003 11:51 am (#123 of 2152)

The possible advantage to having a V./Ginny connection is that Ginny (as does Harry) has a huge capacity to love, and has experienced a pure form of love through her parents and siblings. Harry, as we all know, has had someone who loved him so much that she made the ultimate sacrifice. With OoP, Sirius, too, made that sacrifice.

I have a cockamamie theory that V. will be caught in some elegantly plotted (by JKR) situation where in an attempt to really possess either Ginny or Harry, he will for the first time experience love. Maybe even a growing love between the Ginny and Harry. It will be such a powerful and, to him, devastating experience that he'll begin to lose his dark magic touch, as it were. Sort of like a sociopath who goes good instead of a normal person going bad. V. might devolve back to Riddle physically and further lose powers. Just a goofy idea...

Ciao. Barb

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Peregrine - Nov 25, 2003 1:34 pm (#124 of 2152)

I wouldn’t be too surprised if Voldemort tried to possess Ginny again. Do we know if Voldemort knows that he once did it before? Because if he knows (or finds out) that happened it may make Ginny an obvious target for a re-possession—she may be more susceptible to his powers than the average person (like Harry with his scar).

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Sly Girl - Nov 25, 2003 3:35 pm (#125 of 2152)

Great ideas... one and all. I was having problems with coming up with a valid (ie not cheesy) way of doing it and you guys have done it. I particularly enjoy Barb's idea, but I'm an old softie. I sometimes wish JKR would be a bit more forthcoming with her clues and not be so persnickety about what's going to happen...

It would be interesting to find out that Voldemort does know about what happened to our youngest Weasley and whether or not he considers that an avenue he'd like to explore- especially if Ginny takes a more prominent position in the story, ie the possible object of someone's affections. Or by having her be a key player in another way.

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HarrysAngel - Nov 26, 2003 7:55 am (#126 of 2152)

Great ideas. I think the fact that Ginny was possessed by Riddle will be significant - perhaps giving her some sort of knowledge / insight. I suspect it had a great effect on her even though we've never heard her talk about it - after all, when Harry says he'd forgotten she'd been possessed she says 'Lucky you' - as if it's a memory that haunts her.

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Warty Harris - Nov 26, 2003 12:05 pm (#127 of 2152)

In the movie... Lucius gives the diary to Dobby and Harry tells Dobby about the sock. I think. Lucius doesn't have the diary. It wouldn't surprise me if Ginny had the seer ability, because the twins do.

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S.E. Jones - Nov 26, 2003 12:14 pm (#128 of 2152)

Let it snow!
When do the twins ever display a seer ability?

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Neville Longbottom - Nov 26, 2003 12:28 pm (#129 of 2152)

I suppose their predition about the result from the Quidditch Worldcup is meant.

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Warty Harris - Nov 26, 2003 12:28 pm (#130 of 2152)

In Goblet of Fire. Maybe before too. What Neville said. I was thinking there was more than the quidditch world cup though. I cannot remember now.

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timrew - Nov 26, 2003 3:34 pm (#131 of 2152)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Wouldn't the diary have been rendered useless when Harry stabbed it with the basilisk tooth? I quote.....

"...Harry seized the Basilisk fang on the floor next to him and plunged it straight into the heart of the book.

There was a long, dreadful, piercing scream. Ink spurted out of the diary in torrents, streaming over Harry's hands, flooding the floor. Riddle was writhing and twisting, screaming and flailing and then...

He had gone."

We go on to hear how the Basilisk venom had burned a sizzling hole right through it (the diary).

To me, that is the diary rendered useless. So whether Lucius has it or not is of no consequence. This is why Dumbledore let Harry give it back to him.

It could not be used to possess Ginny (or Harry) ever again.

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Caput Draconis - Nov 27, 2003 12:06 am (#132 of 2152)

Look...at...me...
Yeah, Tim, I thought the same thing (also thought I was missing something, heh).

The only thing I can think of is that Harry stabbing it removed Ginny's life force from Riddle and prevented him from becoming 'real', but left the memory to flee back to the pages of the diary. But if Dumbledore knew this, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have let Lucius take it.

If the diary ever did resurface in good working order, I'm confident Ginny won't be sucked in again anyway. Pre-OoP I would have had my doubts about her being strong enough to do much of anything, but I was impressed with her in B5, and for me her new qualities didn't seem like too much of a stretch from the other books. I was actually pretty happy JKR finally showed me the positive characteristics that the Ginny-faithful always assured me were lurking within.

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Water Witch - Nov 27, 2003 1:23 pm (#133 of 2152)

I agree that it is unlikely that the diary will surface again in working order. Apart from the fact that Dumbledore wouldn't have allowed Harry to return it to Lucius if he thought that it was still working, there is of course the issue of the basilisk venom.

What I have to say though is that I think there is a connection between Ginny and Voldemort. If we think back to The Chamber, Tom Riddle actually says that he was able to pour some of himself back into Ginny. Sorry I don't have the exact words to hand but it seems like the warning was pretty clear. We know that Harry has his scar connection to Voldie and it seems like Ginny might unknowingly be carrying around a sleeping part of the Dark Lord also.

I doubt if she would be foolish enough to fall for something like the diary a second time but I reckon that there is a strong possibility of some repercussions from her possession.

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mollis - Nov 28, 2003 8:51 am (#134 of 2152)

Okay, the actual text of what Tom says is "If I say it myself Harry, I've always been able to charm the people I needed. So Ginny poured out her soul to me, and her soul happened to be exactly what I wanted...I grew stronger and stronger on a diet of her deepest fears, her darkest secrets. I grew powerful, far more powerful than little Miss Weasley. Powerful enough to start feeding Miss Weasley a few of my secrets, to start pouring a little of my soul back into her ..." (JKR's italics)

So, not only does that imply that maybe Ginny does know some of Tom's memories or secrets. But, maybe it will turn out that she knows something that could help defeat Voldemort. However, I wouldn't agree with the idea that there is a connection between Ginny and Voldemort, since she has never dealt with "present-day" Voldemort, only Tom Riddle, the 16-yr-old school boy.

What I would really like to know more about are Ginny's "deepest fears" and "darkest secrets". I mean, what could our dear Ginny be hiding? Aside from her crush on Harry, and maybe some silly pranks or lies she's been apart of with Fred and George, what secrets and fears of an 11-yr-old would be of interest to a 16-yr-old. And not just any 16-yr-old, but the future dark lord who knew more jinxes and curses in his first year than most 7th years. It sounds like it was her fears that were feeding Tom's diary energy for him to gain strength from her, so what was she so afraid of people finding out?

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Madame Librarian - Nov 28, 2003 12:00 pm (#135 of 2152)

Mollis, here's a really, really off-the-wall speculation:

One of Ginny's deepest fears/secrets may have something to do with a cat. She may intuit that she's an animagus (her parallels to Crookshanks have been noted a lot on this and other Forums), but not know how to deal with it, or for some reason not want to deal with it. Perhaps it's not an animagus trait that worries her, but something else to do with cats--an unwanted or controlling familiar, or something we haven't heard of yet.

Also, on a less dire note, an 11-year old's deepest secrets and fears are, to them, huge. Now that she's older, with a little perspective, she might look back and laugh at what worried her, but be that as it may, during that time, they were enough to allow Riddle access.

Any other ideas? Something to do with her brothers Percy or F. & G.?

Ciao. Barb

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mollis - Nov 28, 2003 12:31 pm (#136 of 2152)

Oh! It could be the secret of Percy and Penelope's relationship. I had forgotten about that and I am pretty sure that she knew about that early-on. I am sure Percy threatened her with something to keep her quite. And I suppose she knew quite a few of F&G's little secrets.

It would make more sense to have the fears and secrets be huge to her, and not so much to Riddle. He would only need her to fear them to be able to take advantage of her. So maybe she didn't confide any secrets of major importance to the diary, but what secrets did Riddle share with her? ( Powerful enough to start feeding Miss Weasley a few of my secrets ) Could she know something that she just hasn't remembered yet?

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Madame Librarian - Nov 28, 2003 12:41 pm (#137 of 2152)

Yesss, mollis, I like it. It may be through Ginny's "memories" that we learn more of the backstory.

Ciao. Barb

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Sinister Kittens - Nov 28, 2003 4:46 pm (#138 of 2152)

I've put myself on Lurk only status, sorry I haven't been chatting but I have been reading about you all ;-).
Ooo, I like the hidden memory theory mollis! To be honest though Barb, and no offence here but.. It took the marauders five years to learn to become animagi, are you inferring that Ginny might have been born with this ability? (i.e. similar to Tonk's metamorphagi abilities?) sp?

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timrew - Nov 28, 2003 4:53 pm (#139 of 2152)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Ginny is not an animagus. JKR has said in an interview that she doesn't turn any of the kids into an animagus before the end of the series.

Can you help with this, Sarah? (i.e. S.E. Jones)? You seem to have all JKR's interviews recorded.

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Madame Librarian - Nov 28, 2003 7:53 pm (#140 of 2152)

Don't worry. I don't have a problem with getting a theory shot down, and I certainly like it when the boss herself (JKR) is the source of the definitive answer. I'll just bumble around til another whacko theory comes to mind.

The hidden memory stuff is one of the less whacko ones, though.

Ciao. Barb

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Hem Hem - Nov 29, 2003 11:14 pm (#141 of 2152)

I know I'm not Sarah, and I don't exactly have JKR's interviews recorded--although the quick-quotes-quill does, and they have a search function. Here was all I could find: SB: We’re going to take a few more questions, and um, the next one is will Harry ever turn into a shape-changer like his father?

JKR: Animagus. No, Harry’s not in training to be an animagus, and if you’ve read book three, you won’t know – um, that’s a wizard that’s very, very difficult to do. They learn to turn themselves into animals. No, Harry is not, Harry is going to be concentrated elsewhere, he’s not going to have time to do that. He’s got quite a full agenda coming up, poor boy.

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S.E. Jones - Nov 29, 2003 11:37 pm (#142 of 2152)

Let it snow!
As far as I know, she's only said that about Harry, as Hem has shown (thanks Hem!). I don't know that she's ever said anything about any of the other kids, especially the kids outside the main Trio, becoming animagi, mainly because she hasn't been asked....

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Sly Girl - Nov 30, 2003 2:14 pm (#143 of 2152)

Yeah, but I swear there is a interview I read where someone did ask her about the others and she jokingly said something like, well I can't have everyone be one now can I? Sort of takes away from how difficult it is. Or something along those lines... but maybe I dreamt it.

I think Ginny will have enough on her plate as well, and not be an animagus either. But that's just my gut talking.

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mollis - Nov 30, 2003 8:31 pm (#144 of 2152)

Edited by Nov 30, 2003 7:31 pm
Madame Librarian: "The hidden memory stuff is one of the less whacko ones, though."

Yea! I'm less whacko!!! Or, at least something I came up with is!

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Madame Librarian - Nov 30, 2003 9:08 pm (#145 of 2152)

Agreed, mollis, I think your memory theory has legs, as they say in show biz. (Didn't mean to imply that you were whacko, just that most of the theories I come up with are. Sorry if it didn't come off that way.)

Ciao. Barb

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fidelio - Dec 1, 2003 8:46 am (#146 of 2152)

What hidden memories could there be, other than the ones we saw in CoS, where Ginny opened the Chamber and released the basilisk, and killed the chickens? I thought that was what Tom Riddle was referring to his--his memories of what was in the Chamber, and what it needed to have to be released, and attack in safety [hence, the chicken-killing].

After all, while the business with the basilisk was bad enough, what else had he accomplished or studied by the age of 16 or so that would be worth passing on? I'm not saying there wasn't anything mind you, just wondering what else Tom Riddle had up his metaphorical sleeve by the time he recorded the diary.

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Madame Librarian - Dec 1, 2003 9:47 am (#147 of 2152)

fidelio, I'm guessing that Riddle's memories could be names of cohorts and supporters (the generation before Lucius, James, Lily, etal.). His memories might be of dark magic skills he already had mastered, alliances he planned to pursue after graduation (maybe heading off toward hidden places and dark forests), other magical traps set in and around Hogwarts that have not come into play yet. All sorts of heinous things that JKR could use to the plot's advantage.

If Ginny "shared" any of this sort of stuff, it could be important later.

Ciao. Barb

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fidelio - Dec 1, 2003 9:55 am (#148 of 2152)

Just to be difficult, would Tom Riddle have gone to the trouble of sharing any such information with someone he saw as an essentially disposable tool, or would he have stuck with sharing just what was needed to open the Chamber, unleash the basilisk, and entrap Harry? After all, Ginny didn't need to know any more than this to do what Tom wanted. He made it sound as if he had some control over what he did and did not share with her--although he could be pretending there.

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Peregrine - Dec 1, 2003 10:06 am (#149 of 2152)

Maybe he was bored. He hadn’t had anyone to talk to for so long, it might have been nice (even if she was a foolish little girl). And, he wouldn’t have seen a problem sharing information with her, since she would be dead. I can see that coming back to bite Voldemort—his arrogance in believing nothing would go wrong with his plan (e.g. Harry).

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Madame Librarian - Dec 1, 2003 4:12 pm (#150 of 2152)

What if Riddle had less control over what Ginny sensed or felt? Maybe there were other things in the diary--you know, like typical ramblings of a 15-16 yr. old, albeit particularly nasty ones since they were penned by Tom. Once the connection was made when Ginny scribbled in that diary, she may have had access to other writings. When the connection was strong enough to have Tom appear to her in a physical state, there might have been an open flow of thoughts.

And--here's a long shot, but what the hey--diary Tom is still just a teenager. Even though she was technically a lowly pre-teen at this time, Ginny was still a cute girl and easily impressed. Tom (with a giant-sized ego, no doubt) might have had a hard time resisting the urge to boast about his "accomplishments." Ginny was such an easy target, but she might have been too reticent because she was in awe of him or shy (remember how she acted around Harry). Tom might have had to draw her out with some chit-chat. He may have dropped a few "fun facts" about the goings on a Hogwarts in his day.

Ciao. Barb

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Ginny Weasley Empty Ginny Weasley (Post 151 to 200)

Post  Elanor Wed May 04, 2011 10:17 am

mollis - Dec 1, 2003 8:27 pm (#151 of 2152)
That is pretty much along the lines of what I was thinking Madame Librarian. I definitely think that it would be well within his character for Tom to "show off" and tell Ginny a few juicy little tidbits to keep her interested in him. It could very well be the pranks that he pulled or things he got away with when he was at school. I could see Ginny being impressed by things like that, given her relationship with F&G.

Maybe Tom got away with something at school that he wouldn't want people to know he was responsible for...

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Fawkes Forever - Dec 2, 2003 4:20 am (#152 of 2152)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Like maybe opening the Chamber of Secrets

I like this theory.... & the idea of Tom sharing a few secrets of his own with Ginny. Like his fears, short comings, regrets or his favourite colour Imagine if little Miss Weasley had the secret to weaken or destroy 'ol Voldy, locked up in the back of her mind.... would be an interesting twist!

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Peregrine - Dec 2, 2003 8:46 am (#153 of 2152)

That theory makes me want to know even more if present-Voldemort knows what his memory-self was doing. I personally don’t think he did—that the diary was a complete and separate entity and the things Tom did, Voldemort is unaware of (except what Malfoy would have told him by now I suppose). I would love to see Ginny be instrumental in the downfall of Voldemort.

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Orchal Fireb - Dec 2, 2003 12:29 pm (#154 of 2152)

I agree with Mr. Took here, that voldie didnt know about his Memoryself. My evidence is that when he listed all his foiled plans, I think it was at the end of GoF he did not mention the events in CoS or about ginny. Now I dont have book handy so please correct me if what I said is false.

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Joost! - Dec 3, 2003 12:41 am (#155 of 2152)

Second line of information
There has been a lot of discussion about the connection between Present-Voldemort and Diary-Tom Riddle on "The Very Secret Diary" thread: Zelmia "The Very Secret Diary" 11/24/03 4:42pm

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Athena McGonagall - Dec 4, 2003 4:47 pm (#156 of 2152)

I didn't see this addressed on this thread, but I've wondered if possibly her ability to lie so easily and so blithely might suggest that Ginny (rather than Harry) has a hidden strength towards Occlumency. It amazes Harry and Hermione - at different places in OoP - how quickly she comes up with lies to cover her behavior or others' behavior (the dungbombs, the garroting gas lie.) She'd be extraordinarily useful as a spy. Thoughts?

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Sinister Kittens - Dec 4, 2003 4:51 pm (#157 of 2152)

I've put myself on Lurk only status, sorry I haven't been chatting but I have been reading about you all ;-).
I think it's mentioned somewhere (in OotP) that living with Fred and George all these years has taught Ginny a thing or two... liking sneaking out and practising on their brooms.

Not too sure about the spy thing though. It seems a bit of a theme that the Weasleys are noticeable due to their red hair, although she could disguise herself.. hmm.

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5ofclubs - Dec 5, 2003 3:29 pm (#158 of 2152)

Sly Girl, can I ask a question about your inside information on the 7th child thing? Your source, did they say that someone would become either a healer or a seer, or did they only say that the future development was related to the 7th child of a 7th child belief? If it was the latter, Ginny (or whoever else may have been referred to, if it's not her) might be something special /besides/ a healer or a seer, like an animagus, a metamorphmagus, etc.

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Sly Girl - Dec 5, 2003 7:18 pm (#159 of 2152)

It was between a seer or healer.

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timrew - Dec 6, 2003 6:46 pm (#160 of 2152)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
A heel.

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freshwater - Dec 6, 2003 10:03 pm (#161 of 2152)

Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
No, Tim....you mean a "seal".

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Shacklebolt - Dec 15, 2003 10:07 pm (#162 of 2152)

Maybe the deep dark secrets have something to do with Ginny's seer ability. She could already know she has this ability and is afraid to share it with anyone except Riddle. This could be the hint you guys are looking for.

I have also thought that if Ginny is a seer maybe she has seen Harry and her together, even married, in the future. This would explain why she wants to see him so badly in book one and is so afraid of him when they first meet in book two.

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Czarina - Dec 16, 2003 7:05 am (#163 of 2152)

Hmmm....very awkward indeed.

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5ofclubs - Dec 17, 2003 10:26 am (#164 of 2152)

Perhaps she's seen herself with someone who has a scar like Harry's, which is why she wanted to see him so badly. But then, upon actually meeting him, she realizes it's someone else with a scar that she'll be with.

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Devika - Dec 18, 2003 7:26 am (#165 of 2152)

I think that would be going too far since we haven't been introduced to anyone with a scar on the head, though I don't support this Ginny Seer theory at all. I really don't see this as having a significant role to play in the books. With Trelawney's 2 predictions I think we've had our share of 'seeing' abilities. Even if Ginny does turn out to be a Seer, it will probably come up only in the epilogue.

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S.E. Jones - Dec 24, 2003 2:36 pm (#166 of 2152)

Let it snow!
About the seventh child of the seventh child thing, I was recently reminded of an old TV show I used to love, Jim Henson's The Storyteller, in which there was a story called "The Luck Child" about a child (the seventh child of a seventh child) who was smiled on by fate and destined for good fortune. I wrote to the Jim Henson Company and asked if the story was an original work or if it came from some older source and they were kind enough to write back. Apparently the belief that a seventh child of a seventh child, or Luck child, was fated for good fortune is an old Irish belief and they were even kind enough to send me a link to one such story from Irish folk tales (in which the child is a daughter and not a son, by the way). Perhaps Ginny being the seventh child will come into play as the girl in that story did and bring good fortune to her family....

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Mrs. Black - Jan 11, 2004 12:43 am (#167 of 2152)

I've searched for this and didn't really come up with anything, if there's a discussion on it somewhere, just point me in the right direction.

After getting to Ginny's feisty, independent personality in Order of the Phoenix, her crying on Platform 9 3/4 in Sorcerer's Stone seems very out of character. Any thought/ideas other than that Rowling just wasn't sure where the character was going?

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S.E. Jones - Jan 11, 2004 1:18 am (#168 of 2152)

Let it snow!
I don't think it seems that out of character, really, if you think about it from her point of view. She's been raised in a family that values familial ties so her getting somewhat emotional about seeing her brothers off, especially seeing them go somewhere she wants to go but can't, as yet. Also, Ron and Ginny are only about a year apart, so, even if she was used to seeing her older brothers off, she's going to be home without him for the first time.... Just my two knuts worth. Any one else?

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Mrs. Sirius - Jan 11, 2004 7:00 am (#169 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Mrs. Black, I would hardly say the JKR didn't know where the character was going at that pointin the series . If you look in the 'ship'ship thread there is quite some discussion about this. Recently I found at the end of PS/SS when the trio disembark on platform 9 3/4 at the end of school, Ginny is there with her mother

"There he is Mom, there he is, look" It was Ginny Weasley, Ron's younger sister, but she wasn't pointing at Ron. Harry Potter! she squealed, Look mom! I can see"

This is before Ron has been home from school and had a chance to tell her all about the famous Harry Potter. Some people feel that she cried when they were going to school just because her brothers were going and she wasn't. I have never been too sure of that one.

Admittedly I am a H/G 'shipper, but JKR has a plan, she throws out little crumbs and I try to "follow the spiders". That my two knuts.

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Hem Hem - Jan 14, 2004 12:24 am (#170 of 2152)

I think that JKR knew that she was introducing Ginny, but I have to agree that our first glance at Ginny makes her seem awfully young and immature. Then again, everybody grows up at their own time, and as a youngest daughter, perhaps her "time" was later.

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Sly Girl - Jan 14, 2004 12:33 am (#171 of 2152)

Then again, she was ten. If that isn't the perfect age for young and immature, then heck...

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Mrs. Black - Jan 15, 2004 6:42 pm (#172 of 2152)

I don't actually think JKR wasn't sure where she was going with the character, but it's always the easy response so I wanted to get it out there. I can talk myself into thinking it's not out of character for her, but I don't like that I have to talk myself into it. The theory I'm most comfortable with is that she's crying because she's frustrated at not being able to go herself - but that's mostly because it's something I would have done at that age and I see a lot of myself in Ginny.

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weasleywoman - Jan 16, 2004 10:55 am (#173 of 2152)

I've just had a brain flash about why Voldemort picks Ginny's mind to invade. Let's assume Ginny is a seer and Voldie knows this somehow. Voldemort also knows about the prophecy (re: his possible demise)and desperately wants to know what it says -- and he knows that a seer uttered the prophecy. So he picks a seer's mind to invade hoping he can learn more about the prophecy. The prophecy is, perhaps, one of Ginny's "dark secrets." It makes perfect sense to me!

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mollis - Jan 16, 2004 11:07 am (#174 of 2152)

As for the development of Ginny's character and her appearances in SS, I didn't see any inconsistencies. As Sly Girl said, "she was ten. If that isn't the perfect age for young and immature, then heck..." I think she was sad and probably mad that she was the only one who wasn't going to Hogwarts. Compare this to her reaction in OOTP where she threw a bit of a fit when she was the only one who couldn't listen to Harry ask Sirius questions about the Order. She is 5 years older, so yeah, less crying and more yelling. Sounds like normal development to me. She is very close to her brothers and doesn't like it when they are separated. But that is just my opinion on it all.

weaslywoman - I don't think that could be, seeing as it was Lucius who gave the diary to Ginny, not Voldy. And since Voldy has been mist since before Ginny's birth, I don't think there is any way he would have known that she was going to be a seer (which I don't think she is). And if she were a seer, how would she know about a prophecy made by someone else?

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weasleywoman - Jan 16, 2004 11:34 am (#175 of 2152)

Mollis -- Surely Voldemort put Lucius up to giving Ginny that diary. He was taking orders from the boss. And seers would presumably see the same future not separate, indivdual ones. Anyone capable of predicting the future would have similar if not identical prophecies. As for Voldie having no way of knowing if Ginny was a seer -- I wouldn't underestimate his powers!!

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mollis - Jan 16, 2004 12:20 pm (#176 of 2152)

weaslywoman - You should definitely check out Zelmia "The Very Secret Diary" 1/15/04 4:45pm We have discussed the diary in detail there. Lots of theories on how the diary came to be in Lucius' possession and Voldemort's intentions when it was created have been discussed recently. As this thread is for Ginny, diary-specific topics would be better suited there.

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Dan Wells - Jan 16, 2004 7:24 pm (#177 of 2152)

Um, maybe I missed something. Where in the canon is Ginny a seer. I mean real Hermione-level evidence. It would be interesting and all, but I haven't seen any sign of it.

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S.E. Jones - Jan 16, 2004 9:37 pm (#178 of 2152)

Let it snow!
weasleywoman: Let's assume Ginny is a seer and Voldie knows this somehow. Voldemort also knows about the prophecy (re: his possible demise)and desperately wants to know what it says -- and he knows that a seer uttered the prophecy. So he picks a seer's mind to invade hoping he can learn more about the prophecy.

Um, the prophecy wasn't uttered til shortly before Harry's birth (this is canon) so 16-yr-old Tom Riddle couldn't have known about any possible seer abilities Ginny may have. Also, it is stated in GoF, that Voldemort didn't have any direct contact with his DEs prior to Pettigrew finding him in Albania, so there isn't anyway for Malfoy to have been contacted by Voldemort and told to deliver the diary.

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Sly Girl - Jan 16, 2004 9:57 pm (#179 of 2152)

Dan it doesn't say anywhere in canon that Ginny is a seer. Yet. I suggest you re-read the thread beginning carefully and the first dozen posts or so. And one of the aspects of it is there isn't Hermione proof evidence (I'm assuming you mean quotes and page numbers and so on) for Ginny, at any rate.

Actually, to help you out, try here.. Sly Girl 9/7/03 2:00pm
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weasleywoman - Jan 20, 2004 11:54 am (#180 of 2152)

Um, I don't think that it matters whether Ginny was born when Tom Riddle was around, he's Voldemort now. This Tom Riddle is clearly not just a sixteen-year-old in a time warp. He knows what happened to Voldemort and actively plots his comeback. He knows Harry Potter is the one who thwarted him. So Tom Riddle would certainly know about Ginny and the prophecy.

Also, if you believe there was absolutely no instructions to Malfoy regarding the diary, what do you think he was trying to do? Just be nasty?

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S.E. Jones - Jan 20, 2004 12:34 pm (#181 of 2152)

Let it snow!
weasleywoman: This Tom Riddle is clearly not just a sixteen-year-old in a time warp. He knows what happened to Voldemort and actively plots his comeback.

Yes, but the only way he knew about what happened to Voldemort and about Harry was through what Ginny wrote to him in the diary. The book tells us that quite plainly.

As for what Lucius was trying to do with the diary, he probably had some idea of what it did and was just trying to cause trouble for the Weasleys, remember Arthur was conducting all those raids at the time. Dumbledore pointed out in CoS, "And imagine what might have happened then.... The Weasleys are one of our most prominent pure-blooded families. Imagine the effect on Arthur Weasley and his Muggle Protection Act, if his own daughter was discovered attacking and killing Muggle-borns...." (CoS, ch18, pg336, US). For more on the Diary, try the Secret Diary thread....

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Sly Girl - Jan 22, 2004 8:54 pm (#182 of 2152)

Okay, regardless of if you think Ginny will be a seer or not, I'd like to talk about the apparent shift we see of her character in Book 5.

Now, Ginny has always sort of been there, almost from the start and we've always had a sheltered view of her. There are some of us who always knew little Ginny had it in her to be a good character and then some of us who were pleasantly surprised in OOTP. I think what's interesting is that we've learned more about Ginny because Harry is finally noticing her and I think this is deliberate on the part of JKR (and honestly, I do mean this in a non-ship way, just so we're clear). We learned more about Ginny this time around then ever before and it's because Harry learned more. So to me,- that does point to Ginny playing a major if not crucial role in the finale of the series. There's a reason JKR wanted us to know Ginny but not to KNOW Ginny, you know? Let's recap what we've found out-

Ginny is an experienced flier. Probably one of the most surprising things, although if you really look at her family, it's not, if you think about it. She played Harry's position, which means she's at least quick and can handle the broom. I think her speed is definitely there because she considers being a chaser for the next year.

Ginny has the praise of George and Fred. This is not something we can disregard. When do George and Fred ever praise anyone? And yet, twice, I think, in OOTP they praise Ginny's apparent power, dispite her small stature and we see proof of it later with the successful Bat-Bogey Hex on Malfoy. But really, just the idea that the twins, themselves powerful wizards, are weary of getting on her badside should make you sit up and notice!

Next: Ginny has a way of breaking through to Harry. Hermione tries, bless her, but sometimes Harry just doesn't listen to her. Like Luna, Ginny seems able to break through to him when he is being his most dunder-headedness self. The point where she tells him off about being possessed is one example. She also helped him solve his problem of being able to talk to Sirius, and even stood guard for him outside Umbridge's office. Ginny has a way of getting straight to the heart of the matter and she has shown that she will do what is neccessary for those she cares about.

Ginny apparently is very relaxed and happy with herself enough to date in her 3rd and 4th years. Compare this to Harry, Ron and, to a certain extent,Hermione, who are all too uptight to even ask anyone out. The fact that she had a boyfriend and no one knew except Hermione points to not only Ginny being close friends with Hermione but also that she is pretty good at keeping things a secret. I'd say she also has more than a touch of the George and Fred in her, when it comes to making mischief. They may have rubbed off on her just a wee bit. Ginny apparently has no problem lying when she has to, something that may very well come in handy. She also befriends people in different houses- without her, would we have met Luna? She also stands up for people like Neville and she corrects him when he says he is a nobody. If only for that, the youngest Weasley should demand your respect.

Now... about the Tom Riddle/Voldemort thing. I was reading COS the other day and something that Tom said really stood out to me, it's as follows..

"So Ginny poured out her soul to me, and her soul happened to be exactly what I wanted...I grew stronger and stronger on a diet of her deepest fears, her darkest secrets. I grew powerful, far more powerful than little Miss Weasley. Powerful enough to start feeding Miss Weasley a few of my secrets, to start pouring a little of my soul back into her..."

Now the bold marks are me and the italics are JKR's. Now, JKR rarely uses italics and when she does it usually means something important. Reconsidering all we've learned about Ginny, this passage gives me pause because Tom states that he grew MORE powerful than Ginny, not that he grew powerful enough to take her over. Which would point, to me, that Riddle was aware of some inherent strength within Ginny.

Any other thoughts?

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S.E. Jones - Jan 22, 2004 9:08 pm (#183 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Sly: Reconsidering all we've learned about Ginny, this passage gives me pause because Tom states that he grew MORE powerful than Ginny, not that he grew powerful enough to take her over.

I figured that was what the "more" meant, that he grew to be more powerful that his victim, powerful enough to take her over, instead of just being an "echo" in a diary.

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Weeny Owl - Jan 22, 2004 9:12 pm (#184 of 2152)

I do find it interesting, Sly, that in GoF Ginny kept Hermione's secret about who was taking her to the Yule Ball. I would say that they're not only friends, but that they know they can trust each other. Since Hermione doesn't seem to hang out with too many other girls, I think that might indicate a more serious side to Ginny than to Lavendar or Parvati, perhaps.

Her being accepting of Luna is another indication of her character. She doesn't seem to care much that Luna is a bit different.

People were so surprised when she could fly well, and that seems to indicate that not only can she keep Hermione's secrets, but she has the subterfuge to avoid the prying eyes of her brothers where her own secrets are concerned.

She seems to be a very caring and warm person, yet she wouldn't let anyone treat her as a doormat. She'd just hex them the way she did Draco. She has quite a bit of strength not only magically but inside.

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Madame Librarian - Jan 22, 2004 9:14 pm (#185 of 2152)

Sly Girl, nice assessment of our Ginny. You've built a good case for her importance as both a person in the story and how a character in a book is given more prominence by an author.

You final points are very intriguing. The language used is definately something we need to pay attention to, because just as in so many other places, JKR does not use the more direct or clearer phrasing. She carefully constructs the language to be just a bit vague, or have multiple interpretations. At first glance you don't see anything odd, but upon re-reading or discussion, things are not so simple.

That line, "...I grew more powerful, far more powerful than little Miss Weasley....", has an implied sense that Ginny is quite powerful and that Tom saw it and had to work at overcoming her power. I don't think he meant just the usual magical power that any normal wizard would have.

Another thing jumped out at me--Tom stays that Ginny fed him her "deepest fears and darkest secrets." I wonder what they were? Were they relatively innocent little girl kinds of things like worrying about grades, having crushes, being embarrassed by your older brothers, or were they really dark?

And one last observation--Tom finishes up by saying that he grew powerful enough to feed Ginny a few of his secrets and pouring his soul into her. Does she still retain any of this? I mean is there something deeply buried in her unconscious that will surface and help (or hinder) in the final struggle?

In many ways I think Ginny is a very complex character, even more than Hermione. I wouldn't be surprised if Ginny turns out to be a key element in the defeat of Voldie.

Ciao. Barb

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Sly Girl - Jan 22, 2004 9:21 pm (#186 of 2152)

Thanks for that post, Barb. Very astute. You're right of course, many different interpretations can be had from just a few short lines, guess that's why there's a forum.

I also thought of a few more examples of Ginny's awareness or power- when they have the incident of the music box they were all falling under the spell of- who closed it? Ginny did. They were all supposedly mesmerized by it, except she had enough sense still to close it. HIGHLY interesting to me.

Also- Ginny along with Luna and Neville and Harry, was attracted to the veil. I think this is an interesting point too, although I'm not sure what it means...

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icthestrals - Jan 23, 2004 7:03 am (#187 of 2152)

Join Potty HQ on this forum! Woohoo, from janitor to VP!
When I read that part in OotP where Ginny closed the music box, my thoughts immediately went to how Harry could overcome the Imperious Curse and how he became "immune" to the Veela influence after his first exposure (unlike Ron, who would succumb even around Fluer who was only part Veela).

Could this mean that Ginny has some power similar to Harry's. And if that is the case, could she have gotten it from Tom during his possession of her?

I hope that made sense.

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mollis - Jan 23, 2004 7:35 am (#188 of 2152)

Wonderful essay Sly Girl! You really captured what makes Ginny special and most of the reasons that make her my favorite character.

I really do think that Ginny is more powerful than the average witch/wizard. The closing of the music box also struck me as odd. Why didn't Harry overcome it first and close it? I think JKR has been planting clues about Ginny's power. I believe there was even more in OOTP, but I'm not recalling it right now.

Ginny has a great deal of confidence. I think that being that confident is unusual in a youngest child (especially with 6 older brothers). She has true strength of character and seems to be a genuinely caring, thoughtful, and honest girl. She told it to Harry like it was, didn't sugar coat it or anything, when she was telling him about being possessed. You got the sense of how painful it was to talk about for her. And I felt a stab of guilt along with Harry for having forgotten that Ginny went through all that. She's a tough cookie and I think we can expect a great deal more from her. I am anxious to see the dynamic with Ginny, Harry and Ron all playing quidditch together!

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Sly Girl - Jan 23, 2004 8:10 am (#189 of 2152)

Icthestrals, I had the same thoughts too. I'm not sure if it's something Voldemort/Riddle gave her OR more that perhaps now she has a built in detector for Dark Objects or magic. Again, like her many other attributes, that may prove invaluable down the line.

Needless to say, Mollis, I agree with what you said as well.
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Fawkes Forever - Jan 23, 2004 8:17 am (#190 of 2152)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Gosh, the part with the music box has always jumped out at me as well.

Loved the essay Sly, there are so many points in there I had jumbled up in my head, I just didn't get round to putting it together in a post ... well done!

Ginny's definately a formidable force, after all, she is Mollys daughter... hee hee! Note the no nonsense attitude too! I loved how her character was developed in OotP, I only hope we have more of Ginny in the next two, & yes, I feel she will play her part in the showdown with Voldy, directly or indirectly remains to be seen!

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lys potter - Jan 23, 2004 8:45 am (#191 of 2152)

Way to get the Ginny Weasley thread going again, Sly Girl!

I agree with everything that you said about Ginny; I think JKR is definitely setting her up for something big. My inclination is that Ginny does retain some power or knowledge from her experiences with Tom, but I don't think it's subconconscious. Ginny has proven to us many times that she's capable of keeping secrets. She might think that people would freak out if they thought she had some of Voldy in her. I have noticed that we haven't even heard Harry talking to anyone (besides Dumbledore) about how he has some of Voldy's power; it is possible that Ron and Hermione don't even know that and haven't managed to put two and two together. Maybe Ginny has managed to make the connection with Harry and is following his lead by not talking about her own situation. We still don't even have any indication that other stdents or faculty knew that the attacks in CoS were taking place through Ginny. She may really want to keep all of this quiet for awhile until the grand time comes for her to reveal her true powers.

I really like the idea of Ginny being a true seer. We know from McGonagal tha true seers are very rare and we haven't been exposed to one in action yet; it could be Ginny. Could it be that Tom Riddle was one and that's the power she got from him? Or could it be that her mind-sharing experience with him somehow had the effect of bringing this latent power to the surface? It could be that she's always had this ability, but I'd like to think that she got something really cool from her terrible experience with Tom.

Thoughts?

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Madame Librarian - Jan 23, 2004 8:52 am (#192 of 2152)

lys, we have seen a true seer in action--Sybil Trelawney! She just wasn't aware of what she was doing, had no control over what she "saw." Now, maybe Ginny will be the kind of seer that can use her power while fully conscious of it. Maybe she'd even be able to direct the kind of prophecies/predictions she makes.

Ciao. Barb

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lys potter - Jan 23, 2004 11:48 am (#193 of 2152)

Madame Librarian: The latter is more of what I meant. You're right, though. Our Sybil has made two real prophecies. I guess I still have it in my head that her relative, the celebrated Cassandra, must've had some kind of knowledge or consciousness of her abilities, otherwise she might not be so celebrated, as Sybil isn't (yet!). I am hoping that Ginny will have more of this kind of awareness or, as you said, direction, in her predictions.

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Peregrine - Jan 23, 2004 12:17 pm (#194 of 2152)

Fab essay, Sly Girl! The music box always stood out to me too. I always wondered why it wasn’t Sirius who shut it—it was in his house after all, you think he would have known about it (or at least been paying better attention).

As to the seer thing, do we know if Ginny takes divination?

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lys potter - Jan 23, 2004 12:29 pm (#195 of 2152)

Interesting, Peregrine...I can't seem to recall ever hearing any mention of Ginny in any class. I'm at work and don't have the books handy. Anyone else?

Now that you mention it, how did Ginny manage to cause all of the attacks in CoS without being discovered being out of class? It seems like at least one of them (Justin and Nearly Headless Nick?) occurred while students were in classes.

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Sly Girl - Jan 23, 2004 2:12 pm (#196 of 2152)

Well, we know that Ginny at least takes Herbology. They spy her coming out of it in OOTP. But she makes no mention of any other class besides the normal standard ones (and hardly those, come to think of it).

Ginny being more 'direct' in her seer abilities is actually the road I took in a recent fan fic I wrote, so it is conceivable that JKR can go that route too, but I'm not sure if she will. In the Potter books there seem to be two types of divination- the kind assoiciated with Sybil (which at first is made fun of, thought of as daft and generally wrong most of the time, BUT she does have a touch of the true gift- witness the prophecies). The second kind seems to be the sort of divination based on the art of the centaurs and what they consider to be a 'true' reading. In doing research for my story I discovered these are two different aspects of real divination and have been part of the pratice of 'seeing' the future since time began, almost. The centaur's employ a more earthy, matter based form of divination- they pay attention to leaves, plants, the planets and the placement of the stars. Their form of divination is slower, yet probably more precise. Sybil's form, or the more inconsistent of the two, seems to be based on direct knowing or feeling within the seer itself. Ginny may in fact, employ both of these types of divination or she may not. She could go down a different road altogether, which judging by her quick mind and sharp understanding of things, she may very well do just that!

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S.E. Jones - Jan 23, 2004 2:35 pm (#197 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Sly: In the Potter books there seem to be two types of divination- the kind assoiciated with Sybil (which at first is made fun of, thought of as daft and generally wrong most of the time, BUT she does have a touch of the true gift- witness the prophecies). The second kind seems to be the sort of divination based on the art of the centaurs and what they consider to be a 'true' reading.

While I agree that, historically, these have both been part of "real" divination practices, I disagree that they are the only seer-type abilities alluded to in the books. Dumbledore said he knew Casandra Trewlany to be a great, and true, seer and was disappointed in Sybil. He then says that he was surprised to hear her start rambling off the prophecy. From the sounds of Casandra, she may not have been so overdramatic as Sybil and may not have used trances. She may well have been aware of her visions and may have been conscious during them, for all we know. It may be a leap to say that there is another type of divination out there, but it may also be a leap to say there isn't....

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Lynn Allen - Jan 23, 2004 3:06 pm (#198 of 2152)

Water Witch, I'm very late in complimenting your essay on Ginny, but to read through all these postings takes time, both in beginning and in ending, and to hesitate would almost guarantee I would forget to comment! Again, a great essay. I'll know to watch for your future postings. There are so many talented and witty folks in this forum... Lynn

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Lynn Allen - Jan 23, 2004 3:43 pm (#199 of 2152)

Sly Girl, As I work my way through this Ginny Weasley thread, I'm again impressed at your reasoning as I have been in the many others you've contributed throughout the Forum. It is time-consuming to work your way through these entries, having just arrived on the scene, but the number of intriguing theories you folks offer makes it very worthwhile. Enough so that I've stopped my pontificating until I get caught up a bit! (Listening for the applause) Lynn

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Sly Girl - Jan 23, 2004 3:44 pm (#200 of 2152)

I didn't say there isn't a third option out there Sarah. There are many different kinds of divination, of course. (And I know that). Not sure where you got that out of my post. I was comparing the two that we know about the most. And I didn't include what we know about Sybil's great relative because in all honesty we know enough about her to fit it on a tip of a pin. If you take what Dumbledore said, and you assume she may not have had trances, she may have indeed used forms of divining- such as water scrying, leave reading (and not just the tea form) she could have used runes, tarot, a whole number of items. That is a more pratical based form of divination, but again, we aren't really shown that those work. We have the kids learning about orbs and the dark shapes in dreams, so I'm assuming JKR has a purpose there. Perhaps Ginny will be this third type, which is sort of what I meant, to begin with.

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Czarina - Jan 24, 2004 1:07 pm (#201 of 2152)
Somehow in OoP, Ginny is brought more and more in line with Harry. Rowling makes lots of (non-romantic) connections between them:

Ginny mentions being possessed -- they have both been somewhat possessed by Voldemort

Ginny becomes the Seeker for Gryffindor -- not Chaser (which she plans to try out for now) or any other position, but Seeker like Harry. I know her brother Charlie was also a Seeker, but it strikes me as an odd coincidence anyway. While she is Seeker, she wins the team the Quidditch Cup.

Ginny lasts longer in the Dep. of Mysteries than either Ron or Hermione and still fights with a broken ankle. In other words, she fights alongside Harry briefly -- but not with the trio.

I think there are other points, but I don't have the books to go through and I'm working from memory. I just think it is rather interesting that not only is Ginny brought out of the woodwork (so to speak), but she is brought out to centre stage with Harry.

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S.E. Jones - Jan 24, 2004 2:12 pm (#202 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Czarina: Ginny lasts longer in the Dep. of Mysteries than either Ron or Hermione and still fights with a broken ankle. In other words, she fights alongside Harry briefly -- but not with the trio.

I don't know about this one. Ginny is brought out of one door with a broken ankly while Hermy is dragged out of another door unconscious. They all hurry into the "Brain" room. Luna gets zapped while trying to lock one of the doors, Ron gets attacked by the brain, and then Ginny gets a stunner in the face. She didn't do any fighting in that scene. Also, wasn't it Ron who won them the Quidditch Cup? I have to agree with you on your other points, though....

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Czarina - Jan 24, 2004 5:45 pm (#203 of 2152)

"wasn't it Ron who won them the Quidditch Cup?"

Yes, but Ginny caught the Snitch, too. Ron kept the Ravenclaw Chasers from scoring so that by catching the Snitch, Ginny won them the game. A team effort, really.

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Doris Crockford - Jan 29, 2004 11:17 am (#204 of 2152)

I was thinking about what you guys said about the two different forms of Divination, and how both Trelawney and Firenze each use one type. Maybe now that they are both teaching Ginny she'll be able to combine them and become an accurate Seer who's aware of her power. And maybe since she's unifying their methods of Divination, she'll be able to get the centaurs to help wizards. Not really help, more of 'join forces with' wizards to defeat Voldemort.

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A-is-for-Amy - Feb 1, 2004 11:38 am (#205 of 2152)

Mom of 2 boys
Do we know for a fact that Ginny is taking Divination? I don't recall if it has been confirmed in the books. Does anyone here have a reference to her being in Divination class?

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Sly Girl - Feb 1, 2004 12:23 pm (#206 of 2152)

No, we've had no indication that she is. She's had it- as they all have. But we don't know if she ever opted to continue taking it.

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Peregrine - Feb 2, 2004 12:32 pm (#207 of 2152)

Except that Divination was one of the classes they had to sign up for in their third year. So if Ginny didn't originally take the class, she never would have been in it. I wonder if Fred and George were in it...she may have followed in their footsteps (it seems more likely that she'd take the same classes as them than copy Ron).

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Hem Hem - Feb 2, 2004 2:10 pm (#208 of 2152)

Divination is not a required course for third-years. It's an elective...that's part of why Hermione was allowed to switch out. Remember Percy's discussion with Ron and Harry in the end of CoS-- he advises them that Divination is a good choice for next year, which would seem to imply that they could choose not to take it.

I hope I understood the last two posts correctly. If I've misinterpreted them, please disregard this post.

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Peregrine - Feb 3, 2004 12:49 pm (#209 of 2152)

Hem Hem, that's exactly what I was trying to say but worded much better.

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Sly Girl - Feb 24, 2004 11:37 am (#210 of 2152)

I was reading through this egyptology site, looking for something non-related at the time, but came across a description if an ancient cat-goddess named Bast or Bastet. Apparently there is a story of this particular goddess killing serpents while in her cat form. Now I know some inferences have been considered about Ginny because of all the 'cat-like' descriptions we're given of her- so if she's not going to be an animagus (she could still be of course) do you think her partonus is a cat? Wouldn't that be interesting?

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Czarina - Feb 24, 2004 3:55 pm (#211 of 2152)

Somehow, I though McGonagall was the cat! :-)

Interesting idea, though, indeed.

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nmnjr - Feb 25, 2004 4:12 pm (#212 of 2152)

"Good judgment comes from experience, and experience - well, that comes from poor judgment."
Interesting...Hermione took the Polyjuice Potion and turned into a cat, then she figured out it was a basilisk. So maybe there's something to that after all!

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vball man - Feb 25, 2004 10:36 pm (#213 of 2152)

He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
I had a theory - it was not well accepted on DarkMark a year ago - that Ginny got some of Vol's powers. Could she still have them? No evidence of that so far. She's a tough little thing, but she did tough stuff as a kid, too. That was before she met Tom Riddle.

One thing in OoP may relate. Harry says to Ginny that he forgot about her being possessed by Tom. Ginny replies, "Lucky you." To me, this implies that she is still unable to really ever forget her experience with Tom. Ginny hasn't given other indications that she's stressed, or traumatized, has she?

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Sly Girl - Feb 25, 2004 10:40 pm (#214 of 2152)

Yeah, interesting point. JKR has shown us that Ginny usually has no qualms about lying either, so we know she can keep things close to the chest about things. It'll be interesting to see where that goes as far as Harry is concerned. I think there's a reason JKR reminds us about the Chamber in Book 5. I think it might come into play... or maybe I've just been reading too many theories. heh

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freshwater - Mar 6, 2004 4:51 pm (#215 of 2152)

Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
I have read this whole thread...a while ago...but can't remember if this has been brought up. I was just watching my CoS CD and when Riddle explained to Harry that is was Ginny who opened the chamber of secrets, I wondered if that meant that she, too, can speak Parseltongue? Perhaps her ability to open the Chamber was simply due to Riddle/LV possessing her? But, it would be interesting if it turned out that Harry was not the only Parseltongue at Hogwarts. What do you think?

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Chris. - Mar 6, 2004 4:54 pm (#216 of 2152)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Well as Riddle said, he did put a 'little of himself into her' I haven't got the books at hand the now, for the exact quote.

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Sly Girl - Mar 6, 2004 6:12 pm (#217 of 2152)

Yeah, a lot of people have speculated about Ginny being able to speak Parseltongue. There are pros and cons for it I guess. On one hand, we know Riddle put a bit of himself into her, but I'm not sure what JKR plans to do with that or if we're even on the right tack. What would be the bonus of having two Parselmouths? Besides the idea that Harry and Ginny could talk to each other without anyone knowing what they were saying.

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Chris. - Mar 6, 2004 6:22 pm (#218 of 2152)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I thought Harry had to be in the presence of a snake to speak Parseltongue. Maybe not.

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Sly Girl - Mar 7, 2004 10:18 am (#219 of 2152)

Good point. Maybe they could conjure one between them. heh

Seriously, unless Voldie plans on releasing a group of 'dirty great snakes' on the school, I don't know how else she'd use the talent...

Although some people do believe JKR was specifically pointing us back to the Chamber with some of her words in Book 5, I'm not sure about that myself. But it is conceivable that the Chamber will have another part to play...

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Mrs. Sirius - Mar 8, 2004 10:55 pm (#220 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
I was watching the CoS again today, I didn't finish it, but if I remember correctly from the book, the chamber of secrets can only be opened by Slytherin's heir. I just found the quote, Cos p 151.

"Slytherin, according to the legend, sealed the Chamber of Secrets so that none would be able to open it until his own true heir arrived at the school. The heir alone would be able to unseal the Chamber of Secrets, unleash the horror within..."

Ginny is the one that actually opened chamber. The above discussion is whether Voldemort passed on Parseltongue to Ginny, thereby allowing her to open the chamber. But is it possible that Ginny is in fact the true heir of Slytherin?

Tom Riddle opened the chamber back in the 1940's. He is now essential not alive, in COS he is just a memory of person, he has essential passed on. So is the current heir Ginny?

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Sly Girl - Mar 9, 2004 12:44 am (#221 of 2152)

So that would mean all of the Weasley are the heir, right? It wouldn't just be Ginny. I'm not sure I buy that. I think there was a point where we explained this idea once before, but I can't remember anymore. I think the gist of it was that because technically, Tom was possessing Ginny and therefore she was not herself in soul/but just body and therefore that is what allowed Tom to open the chamber, using her as a vessel.

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Essidji - Mar 9, 2004 3:02 am (#222 of 2152)

I do agree with you.

Now, there's something fishy about opening the chamber as Harry could do it too. Maybe it's something about the scar.

But I know this thread is about Ginny, so don't bother... I just had to tell about this idea that just sprouted in my mind...

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hopping hessian - Mar 9, 2004 7:01 am (#223 of 2152)

"Extrodinary claims require extrordinary proof" -Bill Nye
Perhaps only descendents of Slytherin could speak parsletounge? Grandpa Slytherin probably never expected from his great-whatever grandson to pass on his "gift" to someone else.

And yes, I agree that Ginny was only possessed by Tom, not Slytherin's heir. If the Weaslys were descended from Slytherin, then by all rights, Arthur would be the heir, and after him Bill.

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Mrs. Sirius - Mar 9, 2004 8:09 am (#224 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Is the heir of Slytherin absolutley heir by blood? While this series does put a great deal of focus on the blood lineage, I think it could also be argued that direct blood lineage is not an absolute necessity. There is also a great deal of stress on ones choices and that blood is not a necessity to be a good or powerful wizard.

On re-reading the CoS quotes about the chamber, it made me wonder if the heir might have come by that inheritance by other than birth. Just as Voldemort choose Harry and marked him as his equal, he may have marked Ginny by choosing her.

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hopping hessian - Mar 9, 2004 11:35 am (#225 of 2152)

"Extrodinary claims require extrordinary proof" -Bill Nye
Did Riddle really choose Ginny? I suppose he could have chosen not to respond to her when she wrote, but it was really Malfoy who chose to give the diary to Ginny, so my question is: why did Malfoy choose Ginny? Why not give the journal to his own son (other than Draco would be suspect to some and unable to keep his trap shut). Why Ginny? Was it just convenient? Was it an attempt to place blame on Arthur? Did he need a pure-blood for Riddle to possess?

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Madame Librarian - Mar 9, 2004 12:29 pm (#226 of 2152)

At the end of CoS (ch.18) in DD's office, DD accuses Lucius of setting up the whole thing to ruin Arthur Weasley. DD knew that Lucius hated Arthur and his Muggle-loving attitude. If a respected Ministry employee and one of pureblood lineage no less had a child involved in opening the chamber, it would be the ruin of him. Lucius just glared at DD, but the implication was that DD had figured it correctly. Seems a bit to pat to me. But since the issue does not come up again in the following books (other than Lucius's continued sleaziness and evil machinations), I guess at that stage in the saga, that's was evil enough.

Ciao. Barb

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Prefect Marcus - Mar 9, 2004 12:42 pm (#227 of 2152)

"Anyone can cook"
A few problems with the Binn's quote:

#1) It is legend. Therefore it is not guaranteed to be 100% accurate. Things tend to get garbled in a thousand years.

#2) It says that the heir of Slytherin was the only person who could unseal the chamber. It does not say that only the heir of Slytherin could open the chamber. It's like opening a fresh jar of jam. The first time is the hardest because it is breaking the seal. After the seal has been broken, anyone can open the jar.

#3) You could say that George Bush is heir to George Washington because of his job as President of the United States. In the same way, any Parseltongue could be considered Slytherin's heir.

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Ladybug220 - Mar 9, 2004 4:57 pm (#228 of 2152)

...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Edited by Mar 9, 2004 3:58 pm
Since Parsletongue is such a rare gift, it seems that anyone who could speak it could open the chamber. Ginny being posessed by Tom Riddle would be able to open the chamber since he used his gift through her to get to the chamber (that's the way I read it anyway). I don't really think that it mattered that she is a pureblood. Tom is not a pureblood but he could open it while at school. Harry is not a pureblood either and he opened it since Voldemort seemed to transfer some of his powers to Harry when he tried to kill him as a baby - granted it has been assumed that Voldy transferred that particular power to Harry but he may have had it all along...

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Sly Girl - Mar 9, 2004 5:26 pm (#229 of 2152)

OOh good points. (Especially about the unsealing versus opening) Remember too that Harry had to really think hard before opening it. Since we don't really know how easy it was for Riddle (although I'm assuming he did not have to pretend the snake was moving, like Harry did) we don't know how easy it was for him to use Ginny to do it. The more I think about it, the more squicked out I am that Ginny lived through all of that. She fought him off an entire year. A small 11 year old girl who eventually realized what was happening and tried to even get rid of the book. I really think Gin deserves more credit than she's gotten for that. I also think it might come into play in a big way, but it's just a hunch.

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Maollelujah - Mar 9, 2004 7:22 pm (#230 of 2152)

"Slytherin, according to the legend, sealed the Chamber of Secrets so that none would be able to open it until his own true heir arrived at the school. The heir alone would be able to unseal the Chamber of Secrets, unleash the horror within..."

I think the key is the words "...according to the legend..."

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The giant squid - Mar 10, 2004 12:40 am (#231 of 2152)

Good point, Sly Girl. Everyone talks about Harry, but Ginny managed to resist Tom for nearly an entire year. Quite a feat for an 11-year old girl, even a Weasley. I definitely agree that this strength will come into play in the last two books.

heaves a sigh of sadness upon rereading the word "last" Sad

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Sly Girl - Mar 10, 2004 2:08 pm (#232 of 2152)

Yeah, not to mention the fact that not only did she fight off Riddle by getting rid of the diary, when she realized Harry had it, she got it back. You could argue that she was afraid Tom would tell Harry what she had written, but I think she also knew Tom was beginning to get fascinated with Harry's story and knew that he was hoping to trick Harry as well.

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S.E. Jones - Mar 10, 2004 6:20 pm (#233 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Good point, Sly. And if he could do all that with Ginny Weasley (opening the Chamber, petrifying students, getting Dumbledore kicked out of Hogwarts, etc.), just imagine what he could do with the Boy Who Lived....

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Chris. - Apr 25, 2004 8:55 am (#234 of 2152)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I think Harry will keep away from diaries from now on.

I don't know if this is off the subject of 'Ginny Weasley' but are there any other ways that the DL could control Harry in some way?

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Denise P. - Apr 25, 2004 9:01 am (#235 of 2152)

Ravenclaw Pony
Yes, that is off the topic of Ginny

You could repost the question as a new thread or on the Voldemort thread.

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A-is-for-Amy - Apr 25, 2004 9:35 am (#236 of 2152)

Mom of 2 boys
Well! I just got caught up on a LOT of posts, having been otherwise occupied for the past couple of months, and I just wanted to add my two cents on the whole "could Ginny really be the heir of Slytherin" discussion. My thoughts on this are - no, she couldn't. In CoS - the chapter "Dobby's Reward" Dumbledore tells Harry that Lord Voldmort is the last remaining ancestor or Salazar Slytherin.

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tracie1976 - May 15, 2004 8:45 am (#237 of 2152)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
On JK's official website she states Ginny's full name as Ginevra Molly Weasley.

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Odds Bodikins - May 15, 2004 9:35 am (#238 of 2152)

I did not know she had an official webpage. I have never found it in my searches. Can you post that, Tracie?

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Chris. - May 15, 2004 10:18 am (#239 of 2152)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Odds Bodikins, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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haymoni - May 15, 2004 3:34 pm (#240 of 2152)

On that website she also says that Ginny is the first female Weasley in many generations.

Ginerva - Minerva???

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S.E. Jones - May 15, 2004 6:13 pm (#241 of 2152)

Let it snow!
I posted this on the "What's in a name" thread but I thought I'd move it here since Ginny's name was being discussed here.

Okay, so according to JKR's official website, Ginny's name is Ginevra. From [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ginevra: Italian form of Guinevere

GUINEVERE f
Usage: English, Welsh Mythology
Pronounced: GWIN-e-veer
Old French form of the Welsh name Gwenhwyfar, which is composed of the elements gwen meaning "fair, white" and hwyfar meaning "smooth". In Arthurian legend she is the beautiful wife of King Arthur. Her betrayal of her husband with Mordred prompted the battle of Camlann, which led to the deaths of both Mordred and Arthur. Later versions of the legends tell of her adulterous affair with Sir Lancelot.

My brother (not one of the HP loving ones, by the way) thinks it's telling that her name is derived from Guinevere since she was the wife of the King (King Arthur) and Harry's name means ruler. He also thinks it's telling that Guinevere betrays her husband in the end.

The thing is, I think in the oldest legends, Guinevere is actually captured by Mordred and doesn't betray her husband with him....

Any thoughts?

EDIT: Haymoni, it's Ginevra, not Ginerva....

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Sly Girl - May 15, 2004 8:01 pm (#242 of 2152)

Personally, I think it's more interesting that Ginny is the first female Weasley for many generations. Could that be a special point for her later importance? Any ideas?

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haymoni - May 15, 2004 8:26 pm (#243 of 2152)

Sorry S.E. - My dyslexia raises its ugly head again!!!

Sly GIrl - I thought that bit of info was interesting too. Wonder why it hasn't been metioned in the books. It could have been tied in at any number of places.

When Henry goes to the Burrow for the first time. When Ginny is in the Chamber. When Bill & Charlie are home before the World Cup. Molly could have bragged about it - "First Weasley girl in XX generations."

Actually it is one more thing that makes Ron the only "nothing special" Weasley. Ron could have said something about it when he was on the Hogwarts Express the first time, explaining what it was like to have 5 older brothers. He could have mentioned that even his younger sister was unique.

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S.E. Jones - May 15, 2004 8:55 pm (#244 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Hi Sly!

Lots of possibilities, but my crystal ball tells me that the old seer/healer debate is about to come back into play...

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Sly Girl - May 15, 2004 8:57 pm (#245 of 2152)

You're right Haymoni- having Ron say that in book one would have made perfect sense. I always wondered why he didn't say anything about Ginny there....

It would explain why the Weasley's feel protective of Ginny- I mean, not just because she's a girl, but because she's like.. the only girl. Verrrrrry interesting.

Hi Sarah!

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S.E. Jones - May 15, 2004 9:46 pm (#246 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Do you think Ron could've been intentionally not drawing attention to her there....

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Devika - May 16, 2004 2:20 am (#247 of 2152)

Well... the fact that Ginny is the first girl in many generations will probably raise the 'seer' question again. I'll try looking at this from the opposite point of view. What if Ginny's birth is itself a prophecy, relating to something much more than just her gender. While we have speculated a lot about Harry being Gryffindor's descendent, is it not a possibility that the Weasleys could be that pure blood family. I'm sending out arrows totally in the dark here... Ginny probably represents a break in some sort of curse, which had possibly prevented the Weasleys from having daughters. Or maybe Harry is not the only one who's been born as a part of some prophecy relating to Voldemort's downfall??

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Weeny Owl - May 16, 2004 10:37 am (#248 of 2152)

A Sly sighting!

In a way Ginny has already betrayed Harry (and Hogwarts) because of the diary. It turned out fine, fortunately, and wasn't her fault.

In many retellings of the Arthurian legends, Guinevere was the victim of Mordred. Mordred has been described as good-looking yet treacherous, wanting the throne for himself, and even kidnapping Guinevere.

Granted, Ginny wasn't kidnapped per se, but I always thought Lucius Malfoy's reason for getting the Chamber opened was to get rid of Dumbledore and become the Headmaster himself. He certainly was treacherous and Ginny was definitely the victim as was the entire school.

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Sly Girl - May 16, 2004 3:02 pm (#249 of 2152)

Heheh...hi Jill! You know I can't resist talking about my favorite character!

I think it's interesting that for the most part all of the Weasley's (that we know of) have been in Gryffindor; however did the rest of you read that bit about the 'missing' Weasley cousin, Malfada? She was to be in Slytherin. So again, we have JKR showing that the two houses are related in a sense. I know a lot of people have speculated about Percy's placement in Gryffindor. And then we have Ginny, who was possessed by the heir of Slytherin, doing Slytherin things (albeit against her will). And then when you throw in the fact that Harry was told 'it's all here, in your head' with regards to being in Slytherin, it really makes you wonder.

For my part, I don't see Ginny betraying Harry. Her role is to be something other than that, I just feel it. Her emergence in book five and Jo's continuation of describing her as a 'forceful' personality means she has something else in mind for the the youngest Weasley.

If Molly was a 7th child- again, going back to that Seer/Healer aspect and all of her family was killed by DE's, could that be why Lucius targeted Ginny to begin with? I mean, I know he hates Arthur; I know he would do anything to cause trouble for the 'blood-traitor's' but what if there was more than that and he thought he might take out Ginny with the diary?

Whew. I'm rambling. Sorry!

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S.E. Jones - May 16, 2004 10:09 pm (#250 of 2152)

Let it snow!
But wasn't Mafalda, even though she's called 'the Weasley cousin', supposed to be related through Molly. I mean, wasn't it Molly's cousin who was a stockbroker/accountant? That means that Mafalda isn't actually a Weasley by blood....

I'm starting to see the whole Seer/Healer angle (um, no pun intended there), but I don't know that it's because she's a 7th child of a 7th child. All that is needed is some magical ability that runs in the Weasley line but that only shows itself in the females of the line, lying dormant in the male members of the family. That would be sufficient enough to make Ginny's birth significant, in my mind. It could explain why we've seen the tendency toward seer-like guessing with Ron (but not Ginny) and then explain why Ginny would be able to control the ability to see at will or have full visions....

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Sly Girl - May 17, 2004 11:49 am (#251 of 2152)
Yeah, true. I was thinking Malfada was from Arthur's side, but I think you're right. It's on 'Mum's side of the family'. I said I was rambling. heheh

True about the 7th child thing again. It's just weird there's this legend out there about it. Maybe JKR used it for inspiration, but like you say, she basing it more on the fact that Ginny's a 'special' case because she's a female Weasley in a long line of males.

I'm re-reading Phoenix right now and it struck me as odd that Bellatrix Lestrange was going to torture Ginny to get to Harry. Why pick on 'the littlest one'? Why not say, "let's tortue the mudblood girl" or "let's torture his best friend, the blood-traitor"? Why single out Ginny to tease Harry with?

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Dr Filibuster - May 17, 2004 11:56 am (#252 of 2152)

Sue, from Northwich, England.
Does Bella know about Hermione? If she did, then would she know what she looked like?

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SarcasticGinny - May 17, 2004 12:48 pm (#253 of 2152)

I figured Bella picks out "small" equating it with "helpless", just as Fred and George warn people not to do. Bella, however, loves to pick on people "smaller" than her and likely assumes the small one to be the one that everyone watches out for, and the one most others would probably be devastated to see singled out and harmed. Too bad Ginny didn't have a Bat Bogey Hex on hand for Bella....

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Neville Longbottom - May 17, 2004 1:37 pm (#254 of 2152)

I agree with sarcastic Ginny. And I must say, that after I read that JKR emphasized that Ginny is the first girl for a very long time, I at once thought about the seer Ginny theory here. However, I really hope, it's wrong. For what would we need another seer, if we have Trelawney (and in some way Firenze)? Especially because Ginny never showed any sign of having the gift.

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Star Crossed - May 17, 2004 3:59 pm (#255 of 2152)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Actually, Neville. There is one thing that could very well be a point in the right direction. In GoF, before the match, the kids split up. HRH, and Fred, George, and Ginny. They could have gotten her to pop out a prediction about the game. That may be why their bet was so precise. And also, Harry isn't around her enough to notice this.

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S.E. Jones - May 17, 2004 6:24 pm (#256 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Especially because Ginny never showed any sign of having the gift.

Well, that was always my problem with the Seer theory. Instead, we are given little guesses, or whatever you want to call them, that fall a little too close to the mark from Ron in quite a few places (he always seems to get things right when he's joking). Some say it is a way of dropping clues (which it is, functionally); some say it is pointing to him being a seer. Still, there was never anything pointing to Ginny being in any way special until now. Being that she's the only girl in a long line of males, we could say, for the sake of theorizing, that the gift runs in the family (which is why Ron occassionally shows tendencies) but only really shows itself in the females of the line. However, this could also work with being a Healer. I'd kind of rather she were a Healer and ended up healing the Longbottoms somehow, but that's just my silly optimistic side talking (*crosses fingers*)....

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Sly Girl - May 17, 2004 9:05 pm (#257 of 2152)

Also; just because Trelawney is a joke most of the time, it doesn't mean that Ginny's brand of 'seering' would be the same. She's far too level headed and direct. She wouldn't be like Firenze either for that matter. As far as this world goes, I still say we don't know all there is to know about being a 'Seer'.

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S.E. Jones - May 17, 2004 9:24 pm (#258 of 2152)

Let it snow!
"Seering"... I like that, Sly. It's become my new 'word of the day'.....

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Czarina II - May 18, 2004 11:30 am (#259 of 2152)

So if a Seer cuts his/her hand with a knife, is it a 'seering' pain? ;-)

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Sly Girl - May 18, 2004 8:03 pm (#260 of 2152)

No, that would be searing. ;-) (laughter) Seriously, I think I created seering out of neccessity. The fan fic I'm writing has Ginny as a Seer and yeah, she does do a fair bit of seering. (smile)

I'm sort of torn between wanting Ginny to be a Seer, or a Healer. It'd be sort of a nice fairytale ending if Harry did die in the end and Ginny was able to save him or heal him and bring him back, but that might be pushing it a bit too far.

I'm sort of bothered by the fact it appears they've taken Ginny's reaction to the Dementor out of the next movie; it must not be as important as I thought. Neville too, for that matter. Drat.

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S.E. Jones - May 18, 2004 9:00 pm (#261 of 2152)

Let it snow!
The movies have also taken Neville out of most of the plot of both movies, though, and will need to some re-working to fit him back in and make him seem important to the audience. We know he's somehow important to the overall plot because JKR has said so, or at least that was my impression....

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Star Crossed - May 19, 2004 3:46 am (#262 of 2152)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
They have?! Cursed be thine movies! That part was really sweet. It actually took me a while to figure out what was making her so scared. *ashamed* But they should still keep it in. 15 more days though! Then we get to witness it ourselves. Hopefully Bonnie gets a bigger part. True, Ginny was still one dimensional in this book, but she still should get her cameos.

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S.E. Jones - May 19, 2004 3:51 am (#263 of 2152)

Let it snow!
I think she will get cameos. There's a pic I saw somewhere of the Trio walking down a staircase in the main hall and Ginny was walking with them so she at least is present....

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Sly Girl - May 19, 2004 6:31 pm (#264 of 2152)

Yes, Bonnie is definitely in the 3rd movie. I've seen at least 4 scenes with her in them. I'm hoping they keep the bit about her and Hermione becoming closer friends through-out these next two. I think it's fairly evident by book 5 that Hermione and Ginny are close. I think it's good that Hermione can have a close female friend and the same goes for Ginny. They both don't seem the silly Lavender/Pavarti type and goodness knows Hermione and Ginny can both use someone to commiserate with at this point...

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Star Crossed - May 19, 2004 6:35 pm (#265 of 2152)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Has it ever bothered anyone by the lack of friends Ginny appears to have? We know about Luna and Hermione, that's it. I know we wouldn't see her hanging out with everyone, but Harry could not something like her hanging out with a few other fourth years as they did homework or something.

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haymoni - May 19, 2004 6:39 pm (#266 of 2152)

Maybe Ginny has a bit of "Harry-syndrome" when it comes to her own classmates - her horrific first year at Hogwarts may have put a few people off - her older brother's friends understand what happened. She also may be more mature than those her age after her Voldemort possession.

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Prefect Marcus - May 19, 2004 6:43 pm (#267 of 2152)

"Anyone can cook"
I wouldn't let it bother you. The stories are told from Harry's POV. Up to now, Ginny has barely been on his RADAR. She could have a ton of and Harry might not notice.

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Star Crossed - May 19, 2004 6:51 pm (#268 of 2152)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
That's what I figured, haymoni, but how long can they hold a grudge? A year, two year tops! They see each other every single day!

You probably have the right idea about the RADAR (What's with the captials? ;D) Maybe he'll start noticing and we can pair Harry up with other kids. Razz

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haymoni - May 19, 2004 6:55 pm (#269 of 2152)

Not really a grudge - just kind of wary perhaps.

Hermione & Ginny seem to be good friends and Hermione doesn't have any friends that are girls in her own year either.

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Star Crossed - May 19, 2004 6:58 pm (#270 of 2152)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Well, I see Hermione's case. She has a choice of Lavender and Parvati who are so unHermionish that she just could not stand it. Or she can hang out with the two girls who are so monsterly boring that they are not given names or personalities. I'd much rather be friends with the boys and younger girls. Actually, if I were her, I'd try to hang out with more mature girls, since she seems more mature than her average age.

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S.E. Jones - May 19, 2004 7:28 pm (#271 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Plus, Hermione see Ginny, not only during the school year, but also during the summer. They see each other practically all year long. It's not wonder they became friends....

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Iverson Godfrey - May 19, 2004 8:11 pm (#272 of 2152)

Harry Potter fan since 2002
The word RADAR originated as an acronym that worked it's way into mainstream vocabulary. It can be used properly as a regular word, or in caps, as an acronym, I think...

Anyway, I think Ginny probably has a lot of friends. From what we learned of her personality in OP, she seems to be fun and outgoing like the twins and seems to know and be friendly with people from other houses. I agree with Marcus that our lack of knowledge regarding her social life, is due to the amount of attention Harry has paid to her (not much).

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Mrs. Sirius - May 19, 2004 11:28 pm (#273 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
I wouldn't worry about Ginny's social life. Judging by the number of boyfriends she goes through in OoTP, I'd say she has no problems making friends.

Her relationship with Hermione however, I think is particularly close. JK has said the Hermione's birthday is September 19, so when she starts at Hogwarts she is not yet 11. But Hermione may well be the exception to start school at this age. Ginny is a year younger than Ron, whose birthday is in the spring, March I believe. The twins are also in the spring, April 1. If spring births are the pattern in the Weasley household, that means that when we meet Ginny PS/SS she is 10-10 1/2 years old, only a few months younger than Hermione.

Ginny and Hermione's friendship could be more that just that Hermione is a friend of her brother. They easily could have been in the same class, they are both talented witches, smart and able to take care of themselves.
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S.E. Jones - May 20, 2004 1:28 am (#274 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Judging by the number of boyfriends she goes through in OoTP, I'd say she has no problems making friends.

One? How does that tell us anything?

If spring births are the pattern in the Weasley household, that means that when we meet Ginny PS/SS she is 10-10 1/2 years old, only a few months younger than Hermione.

Interesting... Is that even possible? I mean, if Ron were born in March and Hermione in September, then he's only...*trying not to hurt myself here*... six months older than her... yeah I guess it could work if Hermione were at least three or four months older than Ginny..... So we're looking at Ginny's birthday being in December or January at the earliest? Come to think of it, what was that Trewlany was saying about those of short stature whose birthdays were in mid-winter and who suffered tragedy early in life?

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Mrs. Sirius - May 20, 2004 6:04 am (#275 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Two aren't really that many, but the end of OoTP she is dating Dean Thomas. So that's two in less than 12 months.

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Chris. - May 20, 2004 6:08 am (#276 of 2152)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Ginny and Dean never actually go out. She just asks Ron if he's a better choice for next time. She could be joking just to get Ron annoyed.

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Star Crossed - May 20, 2004 12:21 pm (#277 of 2152)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Maybe that's the next question we could ask JKR. Whether or not Ginny and Dean are going out. I think it's an utter lie to get Ron annoyed, but not everyone thinks that.

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haymoni - May 20, 2004 1:31 pm (#278 of 2152)

I thought her comment meant that she had chosen Dean - i.e. she liked Dean. Not necessarily that Dean had chosen her!

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S.E. Jones - May 20, 2004 1:32 pm (#279 of 2152)

Let it snow!
We could just wait till Book 6 is out to find out whether it's true or not. There are plenty of other questions on my list without adding yet another one. The poor list would explode!.....

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Sly Girl - May 20, 2004 11:22 pm (#280 of 2152)

Ginny said Dean Thomas to be facetious and to make Ron get off her back. Until I see the words: "Ginny, who was with her boyfriend, Dean Thomas..." in canon no one will be able to convince me otherwise. So please don't say she went through boyfriends in OOtP when all we know of for certain is Michael.

Remember this: Without Ginny, we would not know Luna. Without Ginny, Michael Corner, Terry Boot and the other Ravenclaws might not have shown up at the DA meetings. Without Ginny, Harry might never have been able to talk to Sirius or Lupin that day about his Dad's stunt on Snape....

Also; I could, if you wanted me to, list all the ways that Harry has noticed Ginny. He may not notice her inner circle exactly (but there are instances where he has indeed thought about Ginny 'being' with her friends or 'being' in a group of her friends etc). For the girl being so below the boy's radar as you put it, he sure does mention or notice how red and long her hair is...how firelight reflects off her eyes and how good at Quidditch she is. Small things to be sure, but Ginny has definitely been noticed by some part of the Potter brain.

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Anna Katarina - May 21, 2004 12:28 am (#281 of 2152)

...the way she sleeps in front of the fire... There is no doubt in my mind that Ginny is a very important influence in Harry's life. Having said that I doubt that they will live happily ever after, just like that, (hoping hoping hoping)but that some how she will make a difference I think is pretty clear.

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Mrs. Sirius - May 21, 2004 10:00 pm (#282 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Wooooa this was not intended to make a disparaging remake about Ginny's character. She is "out going" is is not lacking for friends, or help in socializing. She is not going to be lonely.

In reading OoTP, when we first meet Kreacher, he calls Hermione a Mudblood. At this point both Ron (as expected) and Ginny jump fiercely to her defence and tell Kreacher not to call her that. Ginny is a loyal to Hermione as Ron. Both girls are clever, smart, and powerful (with Ginny it isn't actually canon, we just have Fred and George's word on that).

Socialization is an aspect of Ginny's personality that I think Hermione lacks.

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Accio Book Six - Jun 9, 2004 11:49 am (#283 of 2152)

I think a lot of Ginny's better qualities that Hermione lacks probably comes straight from the fact that Ginny is the last of seven children while Hermione is an only child. She's been raised in a much more social enviornment. Everyone who has brothers or sisters (or doesn't) should understand exactly what I mean.

Hermione: Only child + boring dentist parents that obviously placed an importance on academics being doctors themselves = somewhat socially inept overachiever

Ginny: last of seven kids + excentric parents + growing up with Fred and George + having little expectations on oneself by parents (they've already dealt with so many, the reins would inevitably loosen) = socially adept girl who knows the value of balancing academics and fun
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Neville Longbottom - Jun 9, 2004 1:38 pm (#284 of 2152)

On the other hand, Jo said in the March chat, that she originally planned a younger sister for Hermione. Therefore at least in the beginning Hermione was not an only child for Jo. By the way, I don't have any silblings, but I know exactly what you mean. Smile

Back on topic: I have to admit something. I don't really like Ginny. I tried to like her, really, because if she were a real girl I would love her. But as a character, I think she's pretty boring, especially in book 5, where she doesn't seem to have any flaw. I reread the books and I found myself bored in pretty much every scene Ginny played an important role. I don't even really know, why. Am I the only one?

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Green Eyes - Jun 9, 2004 1:50 pm (#285 of 2152)

Some of Ginny's flaws have already been seen...crushing on Harry, gullible enough to write in the diary...we will see more of her in the next books and I'm sure one of her flaws (at least in Harry's eyes) will be how she won't let him get away with his brooding/anger.

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Neville Longbottom - Jun 9, 2004 2:14 pm (#286 of 2152)

I'm sure one of her flaws (at least in Harry's eyes) will be how she won't let him get away with his brooding/anger.


But this isn't a flaw. No matter what Harry thinks about it, it wouldn't be a flaw from Ginny. I also think the crush was cute, and in no way worse than Hermione's crush on Lockhart, Harry's crush on Cho and Ron's crush on Fleur. I guess the diary counts as a flaw, but on the other hand, she was very unexperienced back at this time.

Well, I think I should shut up, because I know I should like her for every strength this girl has.

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Green Eyes - Jun 9, 2004 2:31 pm (#287 of 2152)

Maybe her feelings for him are a flaw...maybe her tendency to mischief like Fred and George is a flaw...

Hermione is a know it all and a bit of a nag... Ron's flaw may be his being somewhat slow on the uptake...especially in affairs of the heart. Harry's flaw is his anger (but who can blame him?) and perhaps his tendency to play hero...

So, maybe right now Harry's not seeing any of Ginny's flaws and that's why we don't either. Of course if he likes her alot he may not think she has any....

I like Ginny and I'm glad to see her make a bit of a debut in OOTP...it'll be interesting to see what happens next!

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Tomoé - Jun 9, 2004 2:33 pm (#288 of 2152)

Back in business
Harry's flaw is his anger? I would rather say Harry's flaw is not asking question.
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Prefect Marcus - Jun 9, 2004 2:56 pm (#289 of 2152)

"Anyone can cook"
Ginny has no flaws?

What kind of world are we living in when lying to your mother's face is not considered a flaw? What sort of morality are we espousing when it is okay to steal (borrow without permission) your sibling's possesions?

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Accio Book Six - Jun 9, 2004 3:13 pm (#290 of 2152)

Sorry... I'm drawing a blank... what did she steal from her sibling?

And come on... who has never lied to her mom? You're making Ginny sound malicious. She's far from malicious. In fact, I'd say that she's almost TOO perfect. Think about it, she's smart, funny, kind, pretty, confident, outgoing, and independant... I like Ginny, but now that I think about it, she's almost too perfect. She sort of makes me feel bad about myself! (j/k) There has to be some major flaw... and I'm not talking about having a bit of misjudgement when she was eleven (SO young!) years old or lying to her mother.

I think we'll probably see a lot more of Ginny... whether it's good or bad, I don't know...

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 9, 2004 3:19 pm (#291 of 2152)

"Anyone can cook"
Are you saying lying to your mother is a virtue?

She broke into the broomshed and rode her brothers' brooms without permission.

This discussion reminds me of those who claim Rowling is turning Hermione into a Mary Jane. :-)

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Accio Book Six - Jun 9, 2004 3:52 pm (#292 of 2152)

I think knowing when to tell the truth is a virtue. No one can be truthful all the time. And even if it's not a virtue... it doesn't mean it's a fault.

And about the broomsticks. WHATEVER. She wanted a chance at quiddich and there's no way that her brothers would have let her play. And in big families, what is one kid's is every kid's.

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 9, 2004 4:32 pm (#293 of 2152)

"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jun 9, 2004 4:35 pm
So Ginny rationalizes being a thief and liar, but she is still perfect?

The story goes that George Bernard Shaw once asked a women if she would sleep with him for a million pounds. The woman said yes. He then asked if she would sleep with him for five pounds. She indignantly replied, "Certainly not. What kind of woman do you think I am?" Shaw answered, "That has already been established, madam. We are merely dickering over the price."

Out of curiosity, if being a thief and a liar to your own family is not a fault, what is?

Please note, I am not condemning her for these few indiscretions. Ginny is one of my favorite characters. She is very well drawn, IMO. Everyone in Rowling's universe is refreshingly human with little faults and weaknesses. Even Dumbledore isn't perfect.

It just amuses me that someone finds her or anyone "too perfect."

EDIT: Agreed Catherine. :-)

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Catherine - Jun 9, 2004 4:33 pm (#294 of 2152)

Canon Seeker
I thought that JKR was making a real point of showing how easily Ginny is able to lie. She showed that with the Dungbombs in Grimmauld Place, and also in the "Garroting Gas" lie. Do I think that makes Ginny an immoral person? Of course not.

But I do think that this "ability" or trait of hers will come into play. Perhaps it's a way that she's been "marked" by Tom Riddle's possession of her in CoS. Or, as the stealing broomsticks shows, perhaps Ginny has always been sneaky! I think stealth could be a good trait in fighting dark wizards, but as a parent, I would despair of having a young child able to fool me so easily!

I don't think Ginny is "without flaws" at all, although I like her a great deal. She speaks her mind, is very stubborn, and can lie without a blink or a blush. I think this shows that she is growing into quite a formidable young lady.

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Green Eyes - Jun 9, 2004 4:54 pm (#295 of 2152)

Like I said before...perhaps we don't see her flaws because Harry isn't seeing them yet.

I don't see her white lies to her mom as terrible...its really kind of funny. And having grown up the youngest child of 7 and the only girl, she's had to learn a few survival techniques! Sneaking brooms so she can learn to fly is one of those ways that she didn't allow herself to be stomped into nothing by her brothers. She learned to fly in spite of them.

Perhaps before OOTP Harry didn't see flaws in his other friends either because he was just glad to have them. But now, he even knows that Dumbledore isn't perfect, Ron sometimes doesn't give an opinion to support him and Hermione's constant lecturing is becoming more like nagging...

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S.E. Jones - Jun 9, 2004 5:11 pm (#296 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Coming from a family of five siblings, let me say, there are other ways of learning things (whether it be learning to ride a bike or fly a broom) that don't include steal/borrowing without permission, especially if you are the only girl or the youngest in a line. As for the lying and "borrowing", if my mother had found out that I'd done something like that, I'm sure she would've understood. She would've beat my backside, but would've been very understanding the entire time. And, for the record, large families don't equal good social skills. My older brother and I have very few social skills compared to my younger sister, and especially my eldest brother who could sell snow to a polar bear. It all depends on the individual. Look at the difference between Fred and George and then Percy in the series....

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Accio Book Six - Jun 9, 2004 5:58 pm (#297 of 2152)

I made a generalization about the social skills. Of course some people will still be quiet or whatever... but in general you have been forced to interact with people your whole life and because of that are able to read people and have experience in dealing with people of many different personalities.

And I don't know... I guess I just don't see being sneaky as a character flaw. In fact, I'd say her excellently executed sneakiness is a major plus! It's a good thing to be good at in case you need it

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rambkowalczyk - Jun 10, 2004 6:17 am (#298 of 2152)

I like the "new" Ginny as presented in book 5. But I agree with those who say she is too perfect. perfect meaning she is just too cool. I don't think the turn around from tongue tied hero worshipper to cool friend is that believable.

Yes in book 5 Harry doesn't see Ginny as cool but she did undergo a personality change that Harry eventually notices by Valentines day.

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Madame Librarian - Jun 10, 2004 7:51 am (#299 of 2152)

Let me add that one of JKR's major themes that is most seriously presented in OoP (the book where we meet a more 'grown-up' Ginny) is that people are neither all good nor all bad, it's a continuum for most of us. Lupin and Sirius even verbalize this straight to Harry. So does DD.

All the kids at one time or another have lied--sometimes to get to go to Hogsmeade, sometimes to save their skins. They've even lied to people they love and respect as well as those that they detest.

So here's JKR telling us obliquely in CoS that Ginny is capable of being compelled to do things not normally considered "nice," and that by OoP, she's coming into her own as no saintly, innocent little girl.

One other point--a huge plus as far as my opinion of Miss Ginny goes--she befriends Luna. Not only is Luna supposed to represent the geek-y, weirdo student that hardly anyone reaches out to, but she's also from another house. Despite this Ginny is her friend. This, IMO, greatly outshines the relatively minor negatives of her behavior. In Jewish culture we'd say, "What a mensch!"

Ciao. Barb

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Neville Longbottom - Jun 10, 2004 8:43 am (#300 of 2152)


One other point--a huge plus as far as my opinion of Miss Ginny goes--she befriends Luna. Not only is Luna supposed to represent the geek-y, weirdo student that hardly anyone reaches out to, but she's also from another house. Despite this Ginny is her friend. This, IMO, greatly outshines the relatively minor negatives of her behavior. In Jewish culture we'd say, "What a mensch!"

I don't think anybody doubts this. Ginny has many good sides, it's the lack of bad qualities in her character, that bothers me a bit. Well, no, bothering is probably not the right expression. It makes the character less interesting for me, than most other characters.

I want to admitt, that you can of course interprete Ginny's lie to her mother as a flaw. However, personally I saw this special scene rather as a way to describe how "cool" Ginny is, throwing dungbombs and everything. (I suppose you mean the dungbombs scene, because I can't remember another scene in which Ginny lied). It wasn't malicious or mean spirited, and she had a very understandable reason. They wanted to find out things about the Order. It may not have been the behaviour of a saint, but I also don't see it as a character flaw, either. It's not that she is lying all the time.

But I'm a bit odd in this case anyway, Cedric Diggory is among my least favorite characters, and he really is nice.

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Post  Elanor Wed May 04, 2011 10:21 am

Accio Book Six - Jun 10, 2004 9:50 am (#301 of 2152)
Cedric was nice... but soooooooo boring. And about him being nice, he at least could have given harry a bit more information. It's not like Harry was being really cryptic in his warning about the dragons, so why be cryptic about the egg!?

Anyways, back to Ginny. It's not that I don't like her... I do. It's just that she seems just too cool. usually I could find something wrong with being cool... like they're mean to the less cool people or somethi;ng like that... but Ginny's a freaking saint! I just think that we're in store to find out a LOT more about her... Either that she's not so perfect after all, or that she actually IS but we'll understand it more. At this point I don't understand her at all, I just know that she has very good qualities and will probably be head girl in her time. Oh, and look for her to be prefect next year... but that's a given, right?

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Chris. - Jun 10, 2004 9:55 am (#302 of 2152)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I like Ginny in a way. We haven't really found out anything about her day-to-day life at Hogwarts. We know she has friends and connections in the other Hogwarts houses, unlike most of the students.

As for her being a Prefect, I think she will be one. She's the only Gryffindor in that year that we know about.

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Padfoot - Jun 10, 2004 12:47 pm (#303 of 2152)

I never thought of Ginny being perfect or bland or even cool. She has flaws and seems to follow in Fred/George's lead rather than Percy's. Lying is not a characteristic of being perfect. Ginny was shy during the first books and is now revealing, slowly, her personality. The good with the bad. She isn't nearly as interesting as Hermione of course. I like her character though, so far.

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Tomoé - Jun 10, 2004 2:12 pm (#304 of 2152)

Back in business
Padfoot -> Lying is not a characteristic of being perfect.

Is it? I do remember Percy telling Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle he was around Slytherin Dungeon because he was prefect while in fact it was because he and Peneloppe met there.

Plus, Tom Riddle was prefect, and even Head boy, I do think he lied more than once.

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Padfoot - Jun 10, 2004 2:25 pm (#305 of 2152)

Edited by Jun 10, 2004 2:26 pm
Maybe I was not very clear. I meant perfect not prefect. Sure prefects lie, everybody does at some time. I just meant it was not a characteristic to be admired.

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Dumbledore - Jun 10, 2004 2:57 pm (#306 of 2152)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Someone said on this thread that Ginny went from the quiet, shy, embarrassed little girl that we met in book 2 to the cool, smart, pretty girl that we know now. However, we really didn't know Ginny other then when she was around Harry, and we know that she was always very embarrassed when she was around Harry because she had a crush on him. We never really knew her personality otherwise, like when she was with her own friends, so for all we know she has always been the cool, calm and collected character that we have seen in book 5.

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rambkowalczyk - Jun 10, 2004 3:37 pm (#307 of 2152)

to Dumbledore

My point was why did her behaviour change around Harry? Why was she no longer in "love" with him. When I had "crushes" in high school I can assure you I didn't get over it like Ginny did. Because I couldn't do it,I question how Ginny did it.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 10, 2004 4:48 pm (#308 of 2152)

Let it snow!
I thought Hermione said it was because she had found a boyfriend (Micheal Corner) who she had developed feelings for and who felt the same way back. Those feelings are strong (crushes, etc) but to have those feelings returned can be just as strong if not stronger.

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Dumbledore - Jun 10, 2004 5:03 pm (#309 of 2152)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Also, after going through 3 years of having crushes on Harry with unreturned emotions, I guess Ginny just decided it was time to move on.

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Tomoé - Jun 10, 2004 5:55 pm (#310 of 2152)

Back in business
I read too fast again... -_-

I'll go get some sleep, hoping to make sense tomorrow.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 10, 2004 6:09 pm (#311 of 2152)

Let it snow!
I find it funny that Ron is the overprotective older brother, even though he's only a year older, while the Twins, who are three years older, seem to give her a lot of leeway.

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Dumbledore - Jun 10, 2004 6:16 pm (#312 of 2152)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I think that the twins have become sort of awed by Ginny and the way she has turned out to be. For example, they seem really impressed with her Bat Bogey Hex at the beginning of book 5, and they also seem impressed when Hermione tells them that Ginny has been stealing their brooms and practicing with them since she was 6.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 10, 2004 6:22 pm (#313 of 2152)

Let it snow!
So why isn't Ron impressed/awed? He's closer in age and so should see her even more as an equal than the Twins should....

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Dumbledore - Jun 10, 2004 6:28 pm (#314 of 2152)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I think it's because some of the things that can arguably be said were wrong of Ginny (although I, personally don't think they are) are things that the twins themselves would do, and therefore they are sort of proud of Ginny (i.e. the examples in the previous post and the lying to Mrs. Weasely about the dungbombs etc). Therefore, I think the twins feel a closeness to Ginny because they see themselves in her.

Although Ron has done some "shady" things, I think one thing he definitely wouldn't do which would distinguish him from Ginny and the twins is lie outright to his mother.

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mike miller - Jun 11, 2004 5:36 am (#315 of 2152)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
Just a quick question about Ginny becoming a prefect. Are there more than one set of prefects for each house? I don't think so, and if there are not, Ginny can never be a prefect. Prefects are selected from the 5th year class when the previous prefects graduate. Since Ron and Hermione are the current Gryffindor prefects, Ginny will be entering her 7th year when the post becomes vacant. She could be appointed Head Girl though.
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haymoni - Jun 11, 2004 5:49 am (#316 of 2152)

I figured every 5th year class had Prefects chosen. Otherwise, new Prefects would have been chosen in GOF because Percy had graduated.

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Star Crossed - Jun 11, 2004 6:41 am (#317 of 2152)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
That's what I thought. Every fifth year has their own set, every sixth year has their own set, and every seventh year has their own set (With two missing for Head Boy and Girl)

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mollis - Jun 11, 2004 10:54 am (#318 of 2152)

Edited by Denise P. Jun 11, 2004 11:01 am
A couple thoughts before I get back to work. **checking over my shoulder for approaching dementors**

I have been of the opinion that the head boy and girl were in addition to the 7th year prefects. So while Hermione and Ron may be prefects for 3 years, Harry could be head boy. (But this really doesn't belong in Ginny's thread. Do we still have a prefects thread?)

As for Ginny's personality, when Harry met Ginny in CoS, she was shy and quiet due to her crush. But Ron makes a point of saying how odd it was for her to be acting like that because she is normally more outgoing and talkative. I think she has outgrown her infatuation with Harry as she has been dating other people and getting to know the real Harry. Sometimes when you are infatuated with someone and don't know them really, you clam up around them. However, as she is getting to know Harry, they have things in common (quidditch/Voldy-possession) to talk about now and she is more comfortable with him. Harry still see's her more as Ron's little sister, but is also starting to see her as an equal. I hope that Book 6 will shine even more light on Ginny's character. I think she will be a strong and integral part of the student fight against Voldy.

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*Lady Penelope* - Jun 11, 2004 11:56 am (#319 of 2152)

You should never underestimate how important a wardrobe based around the colour pink can be when you are planning to save the world...
It's also possible that Ginny opened up more once she got used to her surroundings. When I first moved into the dorms at college, I didn't really know anyone, and was fairly quiet and shy. However, once I got more comfortable with what was going on around me, I began to open up, and evolved into the extroverted blabbermouth I am today! I think Ginny is in a similar situation. We didn't know her before she went to Hogwarts (not really, anyway), so we only have Ron's description to go on. But I'm sure she'll keep evolving and become an integral part of whatever develops.

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Maria L - Jun 12, 2004 8:35 am (#320 of 2152)

People are reading this?! ::shifty eyes:: They're everywhere!
Maybe Ron is more overprotective of Ginny that others because he was/is closer to her. Bill and Charlie are much older, I can't picture Ron being great friends with Percy, the twins are by themselves, so that leaves Ginny to play with.

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Chris. - Jun 12, 2004 9:56 am (#321 of 2152)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Maria L, I can see Ron and Ginny being more close. While the others were at Hogwarts, that would leave the two of them alone.

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Maria L - Jun 12, 2004 10:44 am (#322 of 2152)

People are reading this?! ::shifty eyes:: They're everywhere!
That's what I meant also. Smile

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Jumbo - Jun 13, 2004 1:48 pm (#323 of 2152)

I've been away a while and stumbled into the pronounciation thread, I was intending to get some clues for pronouncing Ginevra that but instead found this.

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This young lady does (to my eyes) have read hair, there are other references to juniper berrys, the Italian for which is ginepro. I can't build a theory out of it but it's interesting none the less.

Jumbo

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Chris. - Jun 13, 2004 2:06 pm (#324 of 2152)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I think Ginny will become a major character and have more a role in the books.

JKR has given a lot away about Ginny. Unlike other characters, we know her full name, Ginevra Molly Weasley.

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Fawkes Forever - Jun 21, 2004 7:00 am (#325 of 2152)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Prongs I agree. Heres what JK has to say about her, from one of the questions from the live webchat in March :

"Field: Do you plan for GInny to take on a major character role in the next two books?
JK Rowling replies -> Well, now that Ginny has stopped being mute in Harry's presence I think you can see that she is a fairly forceful personality (and she always has been, remember Ron saying that she 'never shuts up' in Chamber of Secrets)"?

I think JK is more or less telling us that Ginny will have a bigger role in the remainder of the series & I for one will welcome this.

I really liked how her character was developed in OotP, when we actually got to know Ginny. Because we didn't get to see the 'real' Ginny before, she always came across (to me anyways), as a bit of a 'dish-cloth' in the previous books. Granted in GoF, she began to come into her own, but she wasn't quite there yet. She is a breath of fresh air as well, I find her no nonsense straight talking to be quite refreshing & funny, plus not unlike her mother Indeed the whole crush situation with Harry was becoming a bit stale, so I'm glad she has 'moved on'.

The closeness in age between Ron & Ginny, means that they are very close from spending so much time together as children, being home schooled, so of course Ron is going to be somewhat protective of her. Whereas Fred & George see their own personalities in her & leave her to her own devises. The small age gap between Ron & Ginny would also produce, to an extent, some sibling rivalry... This is something Fred & George would love to play upon as well... for example, praising Ginny for her Quidditch skills... but making fun of Ron for his lacking in his quidditch abilities, thus adding to Ron wanting to stop Ginny from doing certain things.

One could also argue that Ron does get jealous of Ginny on occasion. For example with the 'Michael Corner situation'. Here we see Rons 'little sister' dating before he has. I think this is a shock to Ron, seeing as he not dating yet.... he thinks that his younger sister definately shouldn't be So how does he react.... he does the over protective big brother thing... but hey thats Ron & thats a bit off topic... sorry!

Back to Ginny.....
"..she is a fairly forceful personality" .... well she is a Weasley after all!

We haven't seen the last of Ms Weasley & her bat hex bogies methinks

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Lady Nagini - Jun 21, 2004 9:32 pm (#326 of 2152)

I don't know if Ron's jealous that Ginny's dating and he's not, but rather...he just cannot bear the thought of his younger sister growing up.

And well said, Fawkes, Ginny is definitely going to be a huge character in the next two books.

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The giant squid - Jun 21, 2004 10:46 pm (#327 of 2152)

I think Lady Nagini's got it. Even though Ron's only a year older, he most likely still sees Ginny as his "baby sister"--He may be nearly 16, but she's just a little girl, barely out of nappies. So for her to mention something like dating ( in a casual, "been doing it for ages" sort of way) threw him for a loop.

I think JKR's made it quite clear that we'll be seeing a lot more of Ginny. Not just bringing her into the group in general, but her comment about being the only other person to have been "touched" by Voldie seems key to me. I'm positive this will come into play in the next two books.

--Mike

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alexa - Jun 21, 2004 11:55 pm (#328 of 2152)

I always thought Ron disapproved Ginny dating with Michael Corner and Dean Thomas because he wanted Ginny to date Harry.

Ron was very happy when Ginny 'ditched' Michael, and he hinted to Ginny to consider Harry:

'Michael — but — ' said Ron, craning around in his seat to state at her. 'But you were going out with him!' 'Not any more,' said Ginny resolutely. 'He didn't like Gryffindor beating Ravenclaw at Quidditch, and got really sulky, so I ditched him and he ran off to comfort Cho instead.' Ron looked highly delighted. 'Well, I always thought he was a bit of an idiot,' he said, prodding his queen forwards towards Harry's quivering castle. 'Good for you. Just choose someone — better — next time. He cast Harry an oddly furtive look as he said it.

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Fawkes Forever - Jun 22, 2004 3:50 am (#329 of 2152)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Yup guys I think you may be right. Ron does seem more shocked than jealous.... sorry! I don't think I really explained that too well... I was also trying to get at perhaps Ron was a bit put out that he had to hear about this from Hermione, & not Ginny herself. However, going by his reaction, if I were Ginny, I'd keep it to myself as long as possible.

I do like the idea that Hermione & Ginny seem to be quite close, as in they both keep secrets for one another. Ginny keeping the identity of Hermione's date for the Yule Ball quiet & Hermione knowing about Ginny dating Michael. Ok, so Hermione eventually spilt the beans to Ron, I can't remember if it was an accidental slip on Hermiones behalf (I've only read OotP twice), but I think that it was after Ginny & Michael were public knowledge. Then again they probably had been for quite a while, but Rons not the most perceptive is he

Alexis, perhaps Ron had time to get used to the idea of Ginny dating towards the end of the book.... the furtive look towards Harry could have meant any number of things, of which I have several ideas .... however, we're stepping into Ron & or 'Ship territory.. or perhaps (if anyone cares to), we could shift these ideas over to either thread?

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alexa - Jun 24, 2004 5:20 pm (#330 of 2152)

Yes yes, Fawkes Forever, please shift your ideas to either thread. I will be interested.

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Fawkes Forever - Jun 25, 2004 8:58 am (#331 of 2152)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
I've etched my mad ravings over on the 'ship thread Alexa

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TheQuibbler - Jun 26, 2004 4:10 pm (#332 of 2152)

I think you make a fair point. Yet it seems to me that in the fifth book that Ginny is the voice of common sense to Harry that Hermione is not. She is the only one who was able to calm Harry down when he was in a temper. She is also having more and more in common with Harry: Quidditch, the Voldemort thing, etc. So I think there will be a growing relationship developing between Harry and Ginny.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 26, 2004 4:49 pm (#333 of 2152)

Let it snow!
A very good point, Quibbler. Ron and Hermione seem to be Harry's internal dialogue (the devil and angel that sit on his shoulder, if you will) and Ginny seems to be becoming the voice of common sense to him.... Hm... interesting.

By the way, TheQuibbler, why not stop by the 'Tell About Yourself' thread and, well, tell us a little about yourself. That's where our new members usually make introductions. We also have the 'Chat and Greetings' thread for people to chat about their day and just say hello if that tickles your fancy....

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freshwater - Jun 28, 2004 9:49 am (#334 of 2152)

Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
The Quibbler wrote: Ginny is the voice of common sense to Harry that Hermione is not. She is the only one who was able to calm Harry down when he was in a temper. She is also having more and more in common with Harry: Quidditch, the Voldemort thing, etc. So I think there will be a growing relationship developing between Harry and Ginny.

Very good point, Q. Also, it seems that, while Hermione shows more awareness of Harry's thoughts and thinking processes, Ginny seems to show more awareness of Harry's emotional state and needs, ie: needing to talk to Sirius. But, I must admit that I consider myself a navigator on the H/G ship. **smile**

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mike miller - Jul 4, 2004 11:47 am (#335 of 2152)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
There was a conversation over on the Ron Weasley thread regarding the likelihood of Ron being named Captain of the Gryffindor Quidditch Team. I'm thinking that dispite the strong arguements in favor of Ron, Harry or Katie, Ginny will be made Captain so there could be some continuity at Captain for the coming seasons.

Any thoughts?

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Chris. - Jul 4, 2004 11:52 am (#336 of 2152)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Even though she has skill, I don't think Ginny has the tolerance to become the Quidditch captain.

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Green Eyes - Jul 4, 2004 12:31 pm (#337 of 2152)

She might be after Ron and Harry leave, but not until then. Why do you think she doesn't have the tolerance, Prongs?

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Chris. - Jul 4, 2004 12:34 pm (#338 of 2152)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
She has the Weasley's fiery temper though I'm not saying she would be that bad. I just don't think she has the tempermant to captain. After HRH's time at Hogwarts maybe.

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Sir Tornado - Jul 4, 2004 1:53 pm (#339 of 2152)

Rebel without a cause.
She might get the job in the seventh after Katie leaves. (I belive Katie will be the captain in the sixth, considering that she was on the team for five years now.

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ex-FAHgeek - Jul 4, 2004 3:17 pm (#340 of 2152)

---quote--- She might get the job in the seventh after Katie leaves. (I belive Katie will be the captain in the sixth, considering that she was on the team for five years now. ---end quote---

Didn't Katie graduate with Angelina and Alicia?

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Sir Tornado - Jul 4, 2004 3:34 pm (#341 of 2152)

Rebel without a cause.
No, She didn't. Ginny said both Angelina and Alicia would be leaving, no mention of Katie, so, I guess she stays for another year.

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Mrs. Sirius - Jul 4, 2004 9:04 pm (#342 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Ginny has many fine qualities. I think her emotional empathy, her intelligence, her daring, natural athletic talent and magical abilities could make her a fine Quiddich captain in her second year on the team.

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Sir Tornado - Jul 5, 2004 1:51 am (#343 of 2152)

Rebel without a cause.
She would have trouble controling Harry, Katie and Ron who are her seniors and older than her.

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Doris Crockford - Jul 5, 2004 7:27 am (#344 of 2152)

I don't think that she would have any trouble controlling them, unless they become jealous that she becomes captain. Harry and Ginny are becoming friends, and Ron is close to Ginny in age and they seem to get along fairly well (Ginny hangs out with HRH occasionally, more as they get older, and she came with them to the DoM). I don't think that Katie will have a problem, mostly because she isn't a major character, so I don't think that a conflict between Katie and Ginny would be very important to the story.

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Tomoé - Jul 5, 2004 12:23 pm (#345 of 2152)

Back in business
Plus, Katie will work on her NEWTs next year, maybe she won't risk bad marks for captaincy.

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Green Eyes - Jul 5, 2004 5:21 pm (#346 of 2152)

I think Katie will be captain because she's the senior member of the team. Ginny's too much a newcomer to be named captain. Remember too, Ginny will be a fifth year in book 6, so she'll have OWLS.

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TheQuibbler - Jul 5, 2004 5:37 pm (#347 of 2152)

Good point with Ginny having OWLS. I'm not sure whether it will be this year or the next but I think that Ron will become captain. In the OoP, Ron was said to have more confidence now that Fred and George had left Hogwarts. And I also think that he'll show himself to be more of a leader in later books to make up for him being, forgive me but, a truly awful prefect. But DD did have confidence enough in Ron to make him a prefect in the first place so I think that will show in later books.

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Sir Tornado - Jul 5, 2004 7:44 pm (#348 of 2152)

Rebel without a cause.
Can't there be joint-captaincy? Harry and Ron or Harry and Katie. Rather like Swedes' soccer team?

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Green Eyes - Jul 6, 2004 7:20 am (#349 of 2152)

Of course, but it hasn't been done so far so I'm inclined to think not.

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mike miller - Jul 6, 2004 9:30 am (#350 of 2152)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
There are pros and cons for all of the most "logical" possibilities; Harry and Katie. However, how many years was Oliver Wood the Captain? I think it was 4 years. That would mean that Wood was given the Captaincy in his third year. There are benefits to having the same person as Captain for more than one year.

Now, maybe the team had nearly completely turned over after Charlie Weasley left so making a third year student Captain wouldn't cause any issues with the other members of the team. Besides, I can't imagine anyone arguing with McGonnegal about who she has made Captain.

It seems logical, and very McGonnegal, to appoint Ginny Captain of the team so Gryffidor could have some consistency with Ginny leading the team for three years.

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Ginny Weasley Empty Ginny Weasley (Post 351 to 400)

Post  Elanor Wed May 04, 2011 10:22 am

Sir Tornado - Jul 6, 2004 11:05 am (#351 of 2152)
Rebel without a cause.
Yes, but then may be wood joined the team in his 2nd year and then got the job in ths fourth year. Don't forget, when he got the captaincy, he was the most senior member in the team. Also, let's not forget that Wood was a Quidditch Fanatic. I don't think Ginny is quite there yet. May be, it's gonna be Katie in the sixth and Ginny in the Seventh. That's the only way Ginny is going to get the job while Harry is at Hogwarts.

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mollis - Jul 7, 2004 7:44 am (#352 of 2152)

Hey guys - not a mod or anything, but this discussion would probably be best suited to a quidditch thread. There is one that was archived discussing this very topic, but if you want, you could probably start another thread about quidditch. But we should probably focus just on Ginny in this thread.

So in an effort to get back on topic here, I think we have all agreed that it is very likely that Ginny will be a prefect in her 5th year. Given that she takes more the "Fred and George route" what do you think the effect of being prefect will be on her? Percy was total power-hungry control freak, Ron kind of hid out and did what was required, but let Fred and George do their thing. Ron still broke the rules with Harry. Will Ginny feel the need to "straighten up and live right" or will she continue breaking rules and pulling pranks like Fred and George and not get caught?

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Dumbledore - Jul 7, 2004 8:29 am (#353 of 2152)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I definitely think that she will take the latter, Fred and George route! However, I do think that she will take more of an authoritative path than Ron did when becoming prefect, while still retaining her own personality and sometimes "Fred and Georgish" sense of fun.

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Sir Tornado - Jul 8, 2004 12:59 am (#354 of 2152)

Rebel without a cause.
Well, at any rate, she doesn't cause as much havoc as Fred and George did.

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Anna Osipova - Jul 8, 2004 1:25 am (#355 of 2152)

But she certainly does take after them! I think she'll actually be a perfect combination of Ron's timidness and the twins craziness. Although this does sort of bring us back to the idea that she's too perfect... :^S

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S.E. Jones - Jul 8, 2004 1:37 am (#356 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Except when around Harry (during the time she had a crush on him), when has Ginny been timid? Ron said in CoS that she normally never shuts up and even JKR has said she has a forceful personality. She doesn't strike me as timid in the least....

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haymoni - Jul 8, 2004 5:32 am (#357 of 2152)

I think Ginny is a combination of all her brothers. She's been able to watch and learn.

I think she will end up being the most like Bill.

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Chris. - Jul 8, 2004 5:35 am (#358 of 2152)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Yes, I hope she continues to take the "Gred and Forge route"

I wouldn't say Ginny's timid either. She strikes me as very straight forward, well Ron is too if you think about it.

I like the idea of Ginny being most like Bill. I don't want her to be like Ron. Ron's too.... Ron!

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Mrs. Sirius - Jul 8, 2004 6:03 am (#359 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
However much she is like any of her brothers, she is however very girl. That's got it's quirkinesses. Prefect? sure, captain why not, just like her brothers. But she is a girl.

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Courtney22 - Jul 8, 2004 7:18 am (#360 of 2152)

I like your comment Mrs. Sirius. She has all the best qualities of her older brothers wrapped into a a strong female character...and she's attractive to boot (She does seem to get all the best guys)

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Anna Osipova - Jul 8, 2004 1:43 pm (#361 of 2152)

I didn't mean that she was timid. What I was trying to say was that it sort of combined to lessen the craziness. Does that make more sense? Like adding water to strong tea.

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freshwater - Jul 8, 2004 8:50 pm (#362 of 2152)

Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
Anna, maybe instead of 'timid', you meant 'subtle'? I think Ginny's got all the cunning, savvy and hutzpah of Fred and George, and she also has the brains to get things done and still stay out of trouble. She's not sneaky....just subtle, or discreet. What do you think?

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Anna Osipova - Jul 8, 2004 8:53 pm (#363 of 2152)

Well, Ron IS timid, but I suppose you're right in Ginny's case. Subtle is the word. :~D

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mollis - Jul 9, 2004 5:57 am (#364 of 2152)

I like the word subtle, freshwater! I think that describes Ginny very well. She is a more subtle version of Fred and George - as far as the prankster business goes anyway. She's got a fare bit of her mom in her too!

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Sir Tornado - Jul 9, 2004 6:45 am (#365 of 2152)

Rebel without a cause.
Gee, I don't know, but Ginny may become the next Michief-maker-in-chief at Hogwarts. I am amazed at her lying abilities, damn, even I can't lie like her, and I lie at school convincingly every other day, and my teachers actually buy that!

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Green Eyes - Jul 12, 2004 8:24 pm (#366 of 2152)

Now, now, Tornedo...why on earth would you need to lie to your teachers?

Ginny lies when she's helping find out more about the Order or when a diversion is needed to help Harry talk to Sirius in Umbridge's office. Hermione lies to Umbridge about the "weapon" to save their butts after they get caught. Harry is ALWAYS lying about his feelings, and what he's up to...even when confronted by Dumbledore. I think we see teens lying to adults and other teens which as I recall from my past teenage years is not uncommon. So I don't think it remarkable that Ginny is able to lie...Harry just notices her doing it and seems somewhat impressed by it thus we see it too.

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freshwater - Jul 12, 2004 8:30 pm (#367 of 2152)

Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
You make some good points, Green Eyes. I agree that Harry lies about his feelings, to others, rather than confide in them. But, one of the things I like best about Harry is how honest he is with himself about his own motives and self-doubts....or, if honest is not the best word, he is at least very willing to critically examine his own motives, feelings and actions.

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Courtney22 - Jul 12, 2004 9:56 pm (#368 of 2152)

Just lying on the part of teens is not necessarily impressive but the ease in which you can do it can be. A thought out lie is much easier to accomplish than one created on the spot. It is sometimes impressive to see an accomplished liar create a story on the spot almost without a second thought. Actively trying to conceal something such as emotions or a long term plan is not as difficult.

Whether lying or not, thinking that quickly on your feet is always impressive in my opinion. I also think that was the point being made...Ginny is a quick thinker in a tight spot.

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S.E. Jones - Jul 13, 2004 12:24 am (#369 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Coming from a large family also helps the lying, I can tell you. Oh, how many times we did something to a younger sibling and then had to make up a quick lie while whispering "don't tell mom... or else..." under our breath.... Ah, those wonder years.....
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 1:48 am (#370 of 2152)

Rebel without a cause.
Now, now, Tornedo...why on earth would you need to lie to your teachers? --Green Eyes.

"Why haven't you completed your Homework?", "Where were you? The bell rang 5 minutes ago?", "Why did you topple all the bicycles off their stands?", "Why did you apply white paint to the blackboard?", "Who left the taps in the loo on?" and the other usual questions. It's actually amazing Me and my friends rarely get into trouble considering all the pranks we play.

Now all of you have given an excellent example of lies told by Ginny, Hermione and Harry, but the one I liked the most was the one Ginny gave Mrs Weasley at Grimauld Place, about Crookshanks and Dungbombs -- it was a fantastic lie, cleverly executed. I'm so jealous.
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Green Eyes - Jul 15, 2004 7:34 pm (#371 of 2152)

So, lying is a mode of self preservation?! Ginny is the youngest of 7 siblings...six older boys and her...she of all people understands this need - self preservation.

I think her lies show some resourcefulness - as do the lies of the other kids. In fairy tales, kids are often seen getting one over on the adult(s) and Harry Potter is no different.

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Green Eyes - Jul 25, 2004 4:14 pm (#372 of 2152)

I'm going to answer my own post because I feel we have been ignorning Ginny! I thought of something else about Ginny that is significant, though it may be better said on the 'ship thread but as I have sworn off anymore discussion there, I'll say it here Smile.

Another reason Ginny behaves the way she does is because she has been sort of "put down" by six brothers and her parents. I think this is one of the reasons she seems to be able to relate to Harry emotionally - the reason she seems to be sensitive to his emotional needs.

Harry has been relatively abused by the Dursley's all of his life, told he's abnormal, a freak, etc. This is why Harry reacts badly to anyone who tries to dominate him - even a friend like Hermione. Ginny has not been abused, she has a loving family, but she has constantly been told she's too small, too young, or a girl. Look at how Ron dismisses her when he doesn't want her to hear what he and Harry and Hermione are talking about in all the books. Look how Mrs. Weasley singles her out in OOTP when Harry comes to Grimmauld place and wants to hear all that's been going on. It was almost cruel to make her the only one who couldn't listen. We find out no one would let her fly so she had to secretely steal the brooms to teach herself. She's been dominated alot too.

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Czarina II - Jul 25, 2004 6:56 pm (#373 of 2152)

Good point, Green eyes. I agree. Ginny has been overprotected by her family. While they meant well, they caused Ginny to feel alienated. She is small (probably in height), but that is not any indication of ability other than to fix a lightbulb or get something from the top shelf. Too young? Being only a year younger than the trio, she is quite mollycoddled when compared to them. When Ron was 13, he faced Aragog. When Ginny was 13, she was still hardly allowed to be on her own in a room! While it is understandable that her parents (and brothers) freaked out when "little" Ginny was nearly killed by Riddle, she most certainly can hear Order information three years later!

Everyone seems to think they know what's best for Ginny. They don't ask her. (However, rebelling against her parents and brothers has taught Ginny a resourcefulness that rivals that of Hermione. We just haven't seen a lot of it in the books.) Everyone seems to think they know what's best for Harry. They don't ask him. Ergo, another thing they have in common. I have the feeling that Ginny will tell Hermione to shut up and mind her own business in HbP, at least when it comes to Harry. Ginny isn't blind -- she can see all the good Hermione's nagging is doing to Harry (none). It is just like the nagging that Ginny receives from Molly.

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Green Eyes - Jul 26, 2004 8:38 am (#374 of 2152)

Thank you Czarina II! I've always said Hermione isn't right for Harry as more than a friend because of her "mothering" of him. He reacts to her the same way Ginny reacts to Molly, by lying, and hiding their feelings. It doesn't matter one wit that Molly or Hermione might be right - they don't necessarily acknowledge the feelings of Ginny or Harry and that's the whole point.

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drippan - Jul 29, 2004 10:52 am (#375 of 2152)

Next book will be Ginny's 5th year. This means O.W.L.S. but it also means that Prefects will be assigned to her class.

I'm almost certain that Ginny will be a Prefect. I'm wondering how this will affect her and show her in a different light?

Or, do you think DD will do a Harry to her and not give her the Prefect title?

DripPan

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Paulus Maximus - Jul 29, 2004 10:59 am (#376 of 2152)

Why would APWBD do a Harry to Ginny? She isn't marked as Harry is.

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Prefect Marcus - Jul 29, 2004 12:01 pm (#377 of 2152)

"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 29, 2004 12:01 pm
Pardon my ignorance, 'APWBD'?

"A Pretty Wierd Bad Dream"?

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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 29, 2004 12:11 pm (#378 of 2152)

Albus Percival (William?) Brian Dumbledore.

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Prefect Marcus - Jul 29, 2004 12:36 pm (#379 of 2152)

"Anyone can cook"
Ah, of course. Thank you

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drippan - Jul 29, 2004 1:06 pm (#380 of 2152)

Paulus Maximus, "Why would APWBD do a Harry to Ginny? She isn't marked as Harry is."

I just threw that in as another option. You know how people are on this forom.

I figure I give everyone for and against......

DripPan

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Kasse - Jul 29, 2004 1:14 pm (#381 of 2152)

I can see Ginny becoming a prefect, I am actually looking forward to her role in these next two books. She is a very special (and powerful)witch.

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S.E. Jones - Jul 29, 2004 7:11 pm (#382 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Luke, it's Wulfric, not William....

Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore

It does seem a bit of a coincidence that we just happen to know one boy and one girl (personally) from Ginny's year. Maybe she'll get one badge and Colin will get the other?

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Gemini Wolfie - Jul 31, 2004 3:05 am (#383 of 2152)

Will Mrs. Weasley repeat her "that's everyone in the family" line?

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Sir Tornado - Jul 31, 2004 3:14 am (#384 of 2152)

Rebel without a cause.
No. JKR rarely repeats dialogues.

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 1, 2004 5:26 pm (#385 of 2152)

No day but Today
I don't know if this has been said, but Ginny is not the 7th child of a 7th child. Arthur is one of 4 and Molly is one of 3 acording to JKR's site. So the theory doesn't work.

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S.E. Jones - Aug 1, 2004 5:31 pm (#386 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Actually, Arthur is "one of three brothers" and we don't know how many siblings Molly had. We know she had family that was lost during the first war and that this family included Fabian and Gideon Prewett, but we don't know how they were related, as yet....

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 1, 2004 5:39 pm (#387 of 2152)

No day but Today
Oh, yes, one of three(blushes). I never seem to get things right. Well, I think that we might have heard if one of them had seven siblings. I don't know anymore. I guess I just really don't want any of the Weasley's to be a seer.

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schoff - Aug 1, 2004 5:44 pm (#388 of 2152)

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
No. JKR rarely repeats dialogues.

She repeated the "Uranus" joke in OoP.

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Muggle Doctor - Aug 1, 2004 7:12 pm (#389 of 2152)

Wasn't that because Ron lost his marbles in the Planetary room?

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Sir Tornado - Aug 2, 2004 3:22 am (#390 of 2152)

Rebel without a cause.
Yes; but I said JKR never repeats dialogues. You'll find that the dialogues are quite different.

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Good Evans - Aug 2, 2004 11:33 am (#391 of 2152)

Practically perfect in every way
We all know about the 7th son of the 7th son, but as you point out we do not know about Molly's line - maybe Ginny is the 7th daughter of the 7th daughter. I have no idea what this produces but it could be similar to the sorcerer idea for the sons line. Maybe it is a seer?

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Eponine - Aug 2, 2004 4:57 pm (#392 of 2152)

I just got CoS on tape and have been listening to it. In the scene in the Burrow, when Ron and Harry are walking up to his room and Ginny is peering out from behind a door, the reader (not sure who, US edition) says "bright green eyes". My US book says brown. I'm not sure what my UK says as it is loaned out at the moment. Does anyone's copy say green or did the reader just make a mistake?

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Czarina II - Aug 2, 2004 7:18 pm (#393 of 2152)

Ginny is definitely not the seventh daughter of the seventh daughter. She is the only daughter -- the FIRST daughter (and the last one). Also, if that was to be important, we would have heard something about Molly's six sisters by now.

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Sir Tornado - Aug 2, 2004 8:45 pm (#394 of 2152)

Rebel without a cause.
What is going on about being 7th son of 7th son? Will someone explain it to me please? I'm completely in dark.

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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 2, 2004 10:38 pm (#395 of 2152)

All I know is that Harry has the chance of being the first "son in law" in the Weasley family in ages or is it forever?

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Sir Tornado - Aug 2, 2004 11:41 pm (#396 of 2152)

Rebel without a cause.
Harry? Why Harry? Many people have that chance.

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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 3, 2004 4:40 am (#397 of 2152)

Well I'm a Harry and Ginny shipper I guess. Playing on Ginny's likeness to Lily, I see Harry stepping in and protecting Ginny just like he did in OotP as James had done for Lily. Ya Ginny is a strong girl but she is someone whom Harry would feel the need to protect.

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Star Crossed - Aug 3, 2004 5:03 am (#398 of 2152)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Tornedo,

The seventh son of the seventh son is supposed to be a seer. Many people think Ron fills this role and that there was a son between Charlie and Percy, making Ron the seventh son.

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Kasse - Aug 3, 2004 7:07 am (#399 of 2152)

Star Croossed thanks for the explaination, I was in the dark too. Just one question: why wold we not have heard anything if there was a son between Charlie and Percy? Is there any evidence to support this?

Ok so that was two questions......Smile

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Good Evans - Aug 3, 2004 10:23 am (#400 of 2152)

Practically perfect in every way
OK - how silly do I feel - of course Ginny cant be a 7th daughter!! Whoops I got a bit ahead of myself and I meant to put 7th child.

For those who are a bit confused - a seventh son of a seventh son is supposed to have magical powers - as Ginny is expected to be powerful - there are lots of hints in the more recent books, and as there are seven weasley children there has been a bit of a leap of faith that JKR is playing with the seventh child thing. We now know that Arthur is one of three (not sure whether youngest or what) so unless Molly is seventh of seven it isnt going to work anyway. Hope that clears that up.

Ginny has the remarkable power of changing her eye colour (he he) therefore perhaps she is an animagus or transmorphthingy (like tonks sorry cant remember the exact word and dont have a book to hand) and this hasn't been revealed yet.

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Ginny Weasley Empty Ginny Weasley (Post 401 to 450)

Post  Elanor Wed May 04, 2011 10:23 am

Kasse - Aug 3, 2004 10:31 am (#401 of 2152)
Ginny has the remarkable power of changing her eye colour (he he) - Good Evans.

Are you joking? Because if you are not then I missed that part completely. Where does her eye colour change?

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Good Evans - Aug 3, 2004 10:34 am (#402 of 2152)

Practically perfect in every way
Edited by Aug 3, 2004 10:35 am
In COS in the US (?) version it says a green eye looking out of the door and later she is described as brown eyes. I picked this up from this thread and others on he site. someone correct me if I have misquoted the reference please.

Seriously Kasse - it was a lighthearted take on that previous discussion - but maybe I've stumbled on to somethng?

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Kasse - Aug 3, 2004 10:40 am (#403 of 2152)

Good Evans maybe you have, I will hav to pay more attention, that JKR is tricksy!

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Carmen Green - Aug 3, 2004 11:02 am (#404 of 2152)

~starving writer~
LOL

Kasse - when you said that JKR can be 'tricksy', I could almost hear Gollum mutter under his breath "tricksy hobbitses'

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Chris. - Aug 3, 2004 12:40 pm (#405 of 2152)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Wasn't there a tale that the seventh son of the seventh son was a Healer, rather than a Seer?

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Kasse - Aug 3, 2004 1:50 pm (#406 of 2152)

Prongs, where does everyoe find these tales? I would like to read up on them.

Carmen - yup it was supposed to be in Gollum's voice :0)

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Robert Dierken - Aug 3, 2004 8:26 pm (#407 of 2152)

"They slipped out of the kitchen and down a narrow passageway to an uneven staircase, which wound its way, zigzagging up through the house. On the third landing, a door stood ajar. Harry just caught sight of a pair of bright brown eyes staring at him before it closed with a snap." CoS, US version. The Burrow.

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Sir Tornado - Aug 4, 2004 12:28 am (#408 of 2152)

Rebel without a cause.
Robert is correct.

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Good Evans - Aug 4, 2004 12:35 pm (#409 of 2152)

Practically perfect in every way
Edited by Aug 4, 2004 12:41 pm
Well then can someone tell me where the idea that Ginny had green eyes came from then? COS says brown in the UK version. and I repeat - I was joking about her having the power to change her eyes - they do not change in the book - but earlier in another thread there was quite a consensus that at one point in one of the books she is referred to as having green eyes. Or have I totally lost the plot?

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Eponine - Aug 4, 2004 3:27 pm (#410 of 2152)

I brought it up. I was listening to the US audio book, and the reader said she had green eyes. I was asking if anyone's book said that or was it just a mistake on the reader's part.

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Ozymandias - Aug 4, 2004 4:09 pm (#411 of 2152)

Nothing beside remains...
My audio book (US) also says green, but my book (US hardcover) says brown. So I'm guessing it was a mistake on the part of the reader. But I jumped when I heard that too, thinking I had discovered something wildly important. Alas, earwax.

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Bowserbabe - Aug 4, 2004 9:27 pm (#412 of 2152)

I have a Ginny question if anyone knows. I've been thinking about this latley. Do we know if Ginny is a parselmouth or not because of her experiences with the Chamber of Secrets? Because durring that time she would have had to talk to the basilisk right? Does anyone know?

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Sir Tornado - Aug 4, 2004 9:55 pm (#413 of 2152)

Rebel without a cause.
Ginny's not Parselmouth. Riddle was posessing her. He was Parselmouth. So, Ginny could speak with the Basilisk.

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Bowserbabe - Aug 4, 2004 10:06 pm (#414 of 2152)

But could there have been any risidual effects of being possesed? I've just realy had this on my mind lately. Though you're probably right! Smile

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The One - Aug 5, 2004 12:46 am (#415 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
Do we know if Ginny is a parselmouth or not because of her experiences with the Chamber of Secrets?

Riddle says that he put something of himself into Ginny. It makes perfectly sense that she was made a parselmouth during her possesion, as the possesed Giny should be able to control the basilisk.

You may very well be right, but I doubt that anyone but JKR knows. I believe that you are right.

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Sir Tornado - Aug 5, 2004 7:30 am (#416 of 2152)

Rebel without a cause.
I agree with the One

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Green Eyes - Aug 5, 2004 7:31 am (#417 of 2152)

It will be interesting to see if TR "putting some of himself back into Ginny and telling her some of his secrets" will come into play in books 6 or 7...I think the "putting himself into her" was more the possession thing, but I can't help but wonder if she might remember something that he told her...one of his secrets that may help Harry in some way. TR was so sure she would not survive her ordeal with him, he may have gotten careless.

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The One - Aug 5, 2004 8:14 am (#418 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
I believe that Ginny is a parselmouth, and may or may not be proven wrong in that. But I will be very surprised if the statement about "putting some of himself back into Ginny and telling her some of his secrets" does not turn out to be important. I believe that Ginny has a big role to play in the last books. ( But not as Harry's girl friend.. :-) )

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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 6, 2004 10:05 pm (#419 of 2152)

Interesting discussion. But the books says "...feeding Miss Weasley a few of my secrets, to start pouring a little of my soul back into her..."

The "soul" part gives me chills more than anything though. What good can come of that? But Ginny is supposedly back to her happy self. I don't think he transfered any power over to her. But the secrets part does sound like it'll come in handy.

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Chris. - Aug 6, 2004 10:11 pm (#420 of 2152)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Is this one of his "live saving" plans?

If he is defeated, a part of him lives on in Ginny?

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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 7, 2004 3:46 am (#421 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
The One - I also believe that Ginny has a big role in the last 2 books but I disagree that it is not as Harry's girl friend. JKR says in her interview that Harry's romance with Cho is over but that Harry will have time for a "little" romance in book 6. The emphasis is mine but I believe Harry & Ginny's relationship could develop further given the fact that they are the only ones to have both been possessed by the Dark Lord.

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The One - Aug 7, 2004 4:05 am (#422 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
OK, whether or not she is his girlfriend is not important on this thread. I believe Ginny to have an important role to play in her own right, based on her experience with Riddle, and then in addition she may or may not become his girl friend.

I do not expect to see any girl being introduced for the sole purpose of being the "heros girl". (Well, Cho may have been, but...)

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Kasse - Aug 7, 2004 6:33 am (#423 of 2152)

I agree Ginny will be important n the last two books. As her own person. She is special and her brothers even comment on how powerful she is - I am sure after the experience with the DE's Ron and Harry would have stopped looking at her like a little girl and start to respect her as an equal.

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 7, 2004 7:42 am (#424 of 2152)

No day but Today
I'm not sure about Ginny being a parselmouth. It could be true though. Didn't JKR say that some concept from CoS would play a major role in HBP? Maybe Ginny does have some connection to Voldie just like Harry, and maybe in the end she(along with Neville I hope)will help Harry defeat Voldie.

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Green Eyes - Aug 7, 2004 2:54 pm (#425 of 2152)

I think her being a parselmouth was a function of her possession by TR...because he was. Once the possession ended, I would assume that the ability ended. Harry has some power from LV transferred to him thus his ability to speak.

I think Ginny will also play a continually larger role in the next two books. I think the groundwork was laid in book 5 for she and Harry to have more interaction through Quidditch and his confiding in her as well as her participation at the DOM. My money is also on her for Harry's love interest...she interacts with him the best of the four girls in OOTP (Cho, Luna, Hermione and Ginny).

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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 7, 2004 2:57 pm (#426 of 2152)

If surviving a curse from the Dark Lord gives you powers, then I would think certainly being possessed by him would...

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The One - Aug 7, 2004 3:05 pm (#427 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
If surviving a curse from the Dark Lord gives you powers, then I would think certainly being possessed by him would...

Seems so to me to. I am pretty sure she has got some power fro LV. Assuming it to be parselmouth has one advantage and one disadvantage:

It happened to Harry, thus it is probably possible.

It happened to Harry, thus the plot idea is already used. More interesting if it is something else. But I will be surprised if it is not something.

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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 7, 2004 6:38 pm (#428 of 2152)

Well Harry is the only one who has ever survived the Avada Kedavra curse. So the transfering of power through a curse might very well be a never before seen occurence.

I'm thinking that possessions are a relatively more common occurence, although those possessed by LV generally become so weakened that their life is cut short. I also want to point out that any power transfered over to Ginny would be from a 16 year-old LV. Although this 16 year old is the most brilliant student Hogwarts had ever seen (well Dumbledore never saw himself Razz). Of course this still makes parselmouth still possible.

Personally, I really don't believe any "exciting" powers were transfered over to Ginny. But Ginny might now have a deep understanding of LV and perhaps have a lot of his "secret knowledge"; as well as how his mind operates. How LV's mind operates might be something that Harry probably knows as well (or is the current LV a much better occlumens than the 16-year old Riddle), but as we all know, Harry is a bit slow in recognizing these things. But to know your enemy is not something to look down upon.

Last year, Harry, and subsequently we, took notice of Ginny's long red mane, her Quidditch ability, and that she's really not that much younger. What will Ginny show us next year?

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RuthJ - Aug 9, 2004 1:33 pm (#429 of 2152)

I haven't read this entire thread, so if I'm repeating someone else's thoughts, forgive me.

The One--I agree that it's unlikely that JKR would reuse the parselmouth plot. But since Ginny probably hasn't had much contact with snakes since CS, it's possible she does have this ability without knowing it.

Whether her role in HPB centers around a 'ship with Harry or simply as a more prominent friend (remember, Fred and George, two main characters, won't be at school this year), I'm sure Ginny further surprise us with her knowledge and abilities.

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Don P - Aug 10, 2004 7:31 am (#430 of 2152)

It wasn't Ginny who reallly opened the Chamber. It was Tom using her body, as for her being a Parseltonge if Tom could make her write on walls and make her forget what she did I think he could use her tongue to speak Parseltongue.

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McSnurp - Aug 10, 2004 8:24 am (#431 of 2152)

An elf of Mirkwood Forest
What if she learned Parseltongue when Tom made her open the chambers? (A bit of a stretch I know)

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Padfoot - Aug 10, 2004 2:00 pm (#432 of 2152)

Edited by Aug 10, 2004 2:01 pm
It would be interesting if one day Harry and Ginny were speaking Parseltounge to each other and did not realize it.

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Kasse - Aug 10, 2004 2:04 pm (#433 of 2152)

lol, that would be something Padfoot

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McSnurp - Aug 10, 2004 2:07 pm (#434 of 2152)

An elf of Mirkwood Forest
Ha! It'd make sense!

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Siki - Aug 10, 2004 2:58 pm (#435 of 2152)

I agree with padfoot that definetly would be interesting. But if this did all happen would they need to be in the presence of a snake or snake like object to talk to each other in parseltongue.

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Magika - Aug 10, 2004 4:16 pm (#436 of 2152)

I've followed this thread for a while, and I'll soon be done with OotP, and I find myself bickering towards a Ginny/Harry-ship. I was almost convinced when Harry talked to Ginny in the library.

Congratulations with *almost* having convinced me, guys!

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aberforth dumbledore's #1 fan - Aug 10, 2004 4:29 pm (#437 of 2152)

Happy birthday Ginny!

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Kasse - Aug 10, 2004 4:54 pm (#438 of 2152)

Is today Ginny's birthday? If is is then a very Happy Birthday Ginny.

EDIT: Just went on JKR's website and saw the birthday wish to Ginny - A Fellow leo Happy 23rd Birthday Ginny.

PS: JKR's site is updated to the time in the UK right so her birthday is tomorrow Aug 11th right?

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drippan - Aug 11, 2004 4:20 am (#439 of 2152)

It says 11/8/04! So I take it as 11 August.

It's weird reading date/month/year though. I'm used to reading month/date/year.

That would make Ginny's birthday greeting really, really early though and Harry's b-day non-existent.

Is this a typical way in England to date dates like this?

DripPan

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Sticky Glue - Aug 11, 2004 4:23 am (#440 of 2152)

Hi Drippan, Yes England, New Zealand and Australia all do there dates with the day then the month and then the year. USA must be one of the few counties that do it the other way.

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The One - Aug 11, 2004 4:42 am (#441 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
! It says 11/8/04! So I take it as 11 August.

That is how it is read in Norway to.

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Kasse - Aug 11, 2004 5:47 am (#442 of 2152)

According to my knowledge the US (and maybe Mexico) are the only countries that date month/day/year and everyone else dates day/month/year. Someone correct me if I am wrong. - I know this was very confusing for me when I moved to the US from the UK so I understand your confusion Drippan

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Czarina II - Aug 11, 2004 8:24 am (#443 of 2152)

Happy Birthday, Ginny!

(Er, what's your last name now? ;-))

It's ok, everyone. Try sorting out day/month/year vs. month/day/year when you always write year/month/day! (Of course, most people here don't do that. They pick one or the other of the first two options.) I never have much of a problem with my birthday, though. It's the same day/month or month/day. Makes filling out forms a lot easier!

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Siki - Aug 11, 2004 10:26 am (#444 of 2152)

Happy Birthday Ginny Yeah us U.S. People are different when it comes to dates and measuring. Sometimes I think it is cool that were a bit different but other times I find it dificult converting between the two.

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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 11, 2004 3:02 pm (#445 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Yeah, in the U.S. people are just different(me included) sometimes I wish the planet could find a universal standard and agree to it on calendars, measures and money.

I have a thought about Ginny and Harry speaking Parseltongue. If they both can couldn't this be a way of defeating Nagini. Between LV, Harry and Ginny they could confuse the snake so much it could make it easier to destroy.

Mikie - By the way "Happy Birthday Ginny"!!!

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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 13, 2004 4:47 am (#446 of 2152)

Ya I thought about that too Mickey, but considering that Nagini has become like a pet of LV I don't know if he'll listen to anybody else especially if LV says here's your dinner and Harry and Ginny says no. Although if Harry and Ginny turned Nagini onto the DEs that might be a different matter. It'll be food all the same.

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Good Evans - Aug 28, 2004 5:25 am (#447 of 2152)

Practically perfect in every way
It has just struck me how many cat references there are surrounding Ginny. She is very fond of cats (COS), she stretched like a cat (OotP)she was curled in a chair like a cat (OotP). I wonder if we are being lead down the road that she is a natural animagus or may have the ability to become one later. As Mcgonnagall has this animagus already I disuaded myself for a while that this would happen, but at rereading COS, I just cant get it out of my head that we are lead down this road for a reason, lots of cat imagery for Ginny.

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TomProffitt - Aug 28, 2004 5:32 am (#448 of 2152)

Bullheaded empiricist
One of Jo's favorite techniques is animal imagery in connection with her characters. Umbridge/toad is an example that comes to mind of a character that we have no knowledge of their being an animagus. The recently revealed hint is another example.

The cat also connects to the Gryffindor Lion.

The cat is a very positive animagus in Jo's writing. Good for Ginny.

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Paulus Maximus - Aug 28, 2004 11:50 am (#449 of 2152)

And she accused a cat of playing with the Dungbombs that she herself had thrown at the door...

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Fawkes Egg - Aug 29, 2004 10:42 am (#450 of 2152)

Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
Actually, on the dates thing, Canada also does month/day/year rather than day/month/year. And if you're confused, Kasse, I'm completely Confunded: I've moved from the UK to Canada and back again in the last 6 years!

I am not sure about Ginny now being able to speak Parseltongue since she is not longer possessed by LV and appears not to have been marked by him in any other way (unlike Harry). Surely this would have been brought up before now, in the same way that there are reminders of Harry's Parseltongue ability thoughout the books post-CoS? But I think her knowledge of LV will make her a key player in the upcoming plot of HBP and Book 7.

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The One - Aug 29, 2004 11:55 am (#451 of 2152)
Open minded sceptic
Surely this would have been brought up before now, in the same way that there are reminders of Harry's Parseltongue ability throughout the books post-CoS?

If she have been marked by LV by any extraordinary gifts, like Parseltongue, it is probable that neither she nor any other around her realize it yet. She has probably not been in a situation where she have had to speak to snakes, hence that gift (if she got it) is undiscovered, and my pop up as a surprise at some point in the future.

I have a feeling that Tom's remark about putting something of himself back into Ginny is significant, but in what way, if at all, remains to be seen.

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Jenni Boyle - Sep 4, 2004 11:18 am (#452 of 2152)

I don't know if Ginny has any extraordianary gifts, but I do believe she will be important in the next two books. She and Harry share a bond because Harry saved her life in COS. Dumbledore has pointed out more than once (PS & POA) that when a wizard saves another wizards life it creates a bond between them. The wizard who was saved is indebeted to the wizard who saves their life. So, I believe that Ginny will have a part to play.

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Good Evans - Sep 5, 2004 3:34 am (#453 of 2152)

Practically perfect in every way
Jenni

silly isn't it - I'd never made that connection before, despite the "in your faceness" of the debt that Pettigrew owes Harry. But you are right Harry saved Ginny's life and she must be indebted to him too. well observed!

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ema fewett - Sep 6, 2004 1:44 pm (#454 of 2152)

I also think that Ginny is going to play a huge part in books 6 and 7. I'm not really sure she'll become a seer but I do think that there's deffinately a strong bond between Harry and Ginny. All though JKR doesn't really show it, I think part of their relationship might end up in the "clutches" of Voldemort. I really hope Ginny doesn't die because she's one of my favorite characters.

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RuthJ - Sep 6, 2004 2:29 pm (#455 of 2152)

Maybe this is obvious & I'm just not thinking, but where did the idea come from that Ginny is or could become a seer? Is this just a theory, or is there canon evidence for it?

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Star Crossed - Sep 6, 2004 2:36 pm (#456 of 2152)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Well, it has been speculated that she may be the seventh child of the seventh child. The only evidence I can remember off hand is that she went off with Fred and George, and they got the exact score correct for the QWC. There are others, but I can't think of them off hand.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 6, 2004 3:19 pm (#457 of 2152)

Let it snow!
They got the score prior to running off with Ginny into the woods (this was the Dark Mark thing, which was post-QWC). Or am I missing something?...

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 6, 2004 3:24 pm (#458 of 2152)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
One thing that stands out at me is a statement by George:
"Yeah, size is no guarantee of power," said George. "Look at Ginny." "What d'you mean?" said Harry. "You've never been on the receiving end of one of her Bat-Bogey Hexes, have you?" Oop. US pp85

Methinks our little Ginny has some more surprises for us.

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Steve Newton - Sep 6, 2004 4:34 pm (#459 of 2152)

Librarian
S.E., prior to the QWC, and their bet with Bagman, Ginny and the twins went 'searching for firewood.'

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S.E. Jones - Sep 6, 2004 4:50 pm (#460 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Ah, I see.... However, I'd like to point out that Charlie had spent the entire evening chatting about Quidditch statistics with the Twins before that. I still find it far more likely that they got the idea from what Charlie had to say. He does seem to be very up to date on all the Quidditch scores and who beat who...

"It's got to be Ireland," said Charlie.... "They flattened Peru in the semifinals."
"Bulgaria has got Victor Krum, though." said Fred.
"Krum's one decent player, Ireland has got seven," said Charlie....

I think the main idea for the 'Ginny as a Seer' thoery comes from the fact that she's the first girl born into the Weasley family for generations (JKRowling.com) and the idea of what being the seventh child might mean. I do find it interesting that we learn that Arthur is one of three brothers, but we aren't told how many siblings Molly has. Still, I'm not completely convinced of the theory....

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SarcasticGinny - Sep 8, 2004 6:56 pm (#461 of 2152)

Not to regress somewhat, but I'd like to respond to the Ginny-will-be-prefect theory and say no. She seems to be taking what Percy would call the "Fred and George" route. JKR makes a point of showing her increasing similarity to F&G in OOTP. What's the part where ishe is holding her ground about something and her jaw is set to the point where she resembles the twins?

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TomProffitt - Sep 9, 2004 5:31 am (#462 of 2152)

Bullheaded empiricist
I've said it in other places before, but I am certain that Ginny will be selected prefect.

She has one quality that few in her year possess. She has taken a stand with the Order in the battle against Lord Voldemort.

She and Luna will become prefects regardless of their past behavior issues or relative ability to act as leaders for their Houses.

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Chris. - Sep 11, 2004 2:29 pm (#463 of 2152)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
We have been discussing the possibility of Ginny being a Seer, but what about a healer?

A strong proponet to this idea is the theory of the 7th child of the 7th child, which according to myth shall be either a healer or a seer. Ginny is the 7th child.-- Sly Girl (#1)

I, personally, prefer this suggestion.

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Star Crossed - Sep 11, 2004 8:12 pm (#464 of 2152)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I love the idea of Ginny being a Healer.

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Magika - Sep 12, 2004 4:37 am (#465 of 2152)

Me too... I have no problems seeing her as one. Rather a healer than a seer, that's all I have to say.

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rebecca dorgelo - Sep 12, 2004 7:23 pm (#466 of 2152)

ok, I just got through all of this thread, and here's what I think:

If Ginny has to be a seer or a healer (I do like the 7th child thing) I vote for a healer - she would be indispensible for the DA, Harry, Ron, Hermoine etc when they are all up on the Hogwarts battlements throwing stuff at the invading Voldemort army (I'm thinking Helm's Deep-esque here) - she could patch them all up and they can go back and fight again (not that I'm saying that she shouldn't fight).

In terms of Voldemort/Riddle putting some of himself into her, I think she will find that she somehow can figure out what he might to next - he won't have given her specific info, just a sense of how his twisted mind works. That was the sort of info that Voldemort got from Kreacher that was so useful - nothing concrete but...

I reckon Ginny is great... right up there with Fred and George.

I also like the idea (mentioned a while back) that Molly and Arthur had so many kids because they were hoping for a girl - maybe something important there (?).

Phew. I'm done.

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Phoenix song - Sep 12, 2004 8:33 pm (#467 of 2152)

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
rebecca dorgelo: Have you read the posts that suggested that Ginny might not actually be the seventh child of the seventh child? Since Ron is the one who makes predictions (although unknowingly) it might be that HE is the seventh child. If the Weasleys had a child to die when it was young, or born dead, then Ron would be the seventh child.

I only bring up this point because I haven't seen Ginny act in a way that would make me think that she was a seer. I see Ginny as more of an auror. She's a really talented, tough girl. I can see a steel backbone in her and I think that she's destined for a more action-filled occupation. Just my thoughts, of course.

I don't think that Ron's ignorance about his prophetic abilities is an indication that his "seeing" is a fluke. After all, Trelawney's only true prophesies were made without her knowledge. Also, it's probably when he isn't trying to "see", when he's just joking with his friends, that his mind is more in touch with that particular sense.

Barbie

EDIT: Since the LOTR has already been brought up, does anybody else see Ginny as a wizarding world's Lady Eowyn, the Warrior Maiden?

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Gerald Costales - Sep 16, 2004 7:16 am (#468 of 2152)

I think Ginny is a seer, there is a conversation where she tells Harry that Harry is banned from Quidditch only as long as Umbridge is Headmaster. You get the feeling Ginny knows (not just assumes) that Umbridge is only temporarily the Headmaster at Hogwarts. Ginny goes on to tell Harry she'd rather play Chaser.

Ginny as Eowyn, maybe. But unlike that character, I think Ginny will end up with the Hero, Harry. And it's not just because of Ron's suggestion. Molly loves Harry already like a son. The Weasleys would provide the family support the Dursleys have never provided. I think Harry and Hermione are a better pairing, but I don't think it's in the cards. Remember the Ron and Hermione hand touching scene in Movie 3.

The little sister role for Ginny is fading. Ginny - Chaser, member of the DA, veteran of the Battle at the MoM, etc. will be have a bigger role in the future books. :-) GC

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Neville Longbottom - Sep 16, 2004 7:39 am (#469 of 2152)

You get the feeling Ginny knows (not just assumes) that Umbridge is only temporarily the Headmaster at Hogwarts.

But seeing that Umbridge was DADA teacher, I don't think you have to be a seer to predict this ;-).

But you never know. I know that the Ginny is a seer theory is very popular here, but JKR has a lot of work to do to convince me. But she already suceeded in other thing, I also considered to be impossible.

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LooneyLuna - Sep 16, 2004 7:55 am (#470 of 2152)

I think Ginny is a very grounded person. She's practical, so it would be really interesting if she is a seer - how would she handle it?

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rebecca dorgelo - Sep 16, 2004 5:42 pm (#471 of 2152)

I'm not sure that I want anyone too close to the main characters 'developing' into a seer (especially Ginny) - I just have a feeling that it would take all the mystery and suspense out of the story.

But then again, I suppose predictions don't have to be clear-cut!

And if it was a student eg Ginny making predictions, then people might not believe them anyway.

I think I've just talked myself around on this one Smile

I love Ginny, she's one of my favourites (but then she's a Weasly, so she has to be good).

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S.E. Jones - Sep 16, 2004 8:36 pm (#472 of 2152)

Let it snow!
I guess whether having a seer in the story takes all the mystery and suspense out of it or not depends on how JKR dealt with it. Ron, for instance, seems to absolutely hate Divination, so he would probably not tell anyone if started having visions, and would probably write them off as weird dreams or eating too many sweets, which would somehow have bad consequences for Harry, no doubt. We haven't seen how Ginny feels about Divination or Trewlany, but she seems just as down to earth and genuine as Ron does, so I'd think it would be a similar situation with her.....

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Gerald Costales - Sep 17, 2004 8:54 pm (#473 of 2152)

I didn't think when I posted, that Ginny is a seer, that so many people would agree. I also wanted to see the reaction to the pairing of Ginny with Harry.

Ginny, I believe is going to grow up and be a strong individual like her mother Molly. I really like Molly, she doesn't always agree with Arthur but supports him. I don't think Ginny will always agree with Harry but Ginny will be as supportive as Molly is for Arthur.

I think Ginny and any of the DA present at the Battle at the MOM will have a greater role in Books 6 and 7. ;-) GC

PS There is the Redhead issue. Lily was a Redhead and so is Ginny. ;-) GC

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S.E. Jones - Sep 17, 2004 9:54 pm (#474 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Gerald, we try to keep all 'shipping debates (debates about who is going to pair with who) on the 'Ship thread. Can you repost there?

Gerald Costales - Sep 18, 2004 11:32 am (#475 of 2152) [/b]
Ms. Jones (re: post #473) Edited and reposted on Ship tread.

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Mrs Brisbee - Sep 22, 2004 4:15 pm (#476 of 2152)

Hi all.

I love Ginny's character. Rowling really surprised me with her. She had been so much in the background the first four books, I wasn't expecting such a strong character to burst onto the scene.

There is something I've been wondering though. In the Death Room at the DoM some of the sextet became mesmerized by the Arch. Harry immediately falls under its spell. Luna can hear the voices in it, altough she doesn't seem to be mesmerized. Ron and Hermione are uneffected, but Ginny and Neville have to be led away from it.

At first I thought those who were effected by the Arch were the same as those that could see thestrals, but then realized that Ginny doesn't fall into that catagory. I've been wondering what there is about Ginny that made her too fall under the Arches spell?

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Madame Librarian - Sep 22, 2004 4:44 pm (#477 of 2152)

Her possession by Diary Tom, perhaps.

This topic has been discussed quite a bit on the "Veil" thread. You might want to scan that for more analyses of the kids' varying reactions to being near the veil.

Ciao. Barb

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Mrs Brisbee - Sep 22, 2004 7:49 pm (#478 of 2152)

Thanks. I actually did a search for "Ginny" and variations of "death," and "arch" and didn't come up with anything. Didn't occur to me to search for "veil" for some reason. Smile

Oh well, I'll check out that thread. You know, this board is so huge it's hard to find the "proper" place for some things.

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mrweasley - Sep 25, 2004 11:30 pm (#479 of 2152)

Posts #51, #134, #209, and esp. #446 deal with references of Ginny's character to cats.
I think that this is not only very fascinating, but also that these hints of Ginny's cat-like behavior are too many and too... um... deliberate somehow to be just coincidental.
I really think you guys were on to something here. I could very well imagine her to be(come) an animagus.

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Kelly Kapaoski - Sep 29, 2004 7:06 pm (#480 of 2152)

I will have to agree with Gerald with the fact that Ginny will grow up to be as strong willed as her mother but she will have more of her fathers laid back attitude. She also seems to get along with her older brothers as well (although Ron doesn't approve of who she is dating though.)

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Paulus Maximus - Sep 29, 2004 8:36 pm (#481 of 2152)

Whom she SAYS she's dating...

I wonder what Dean has to say about Ginny?

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Gerald Costales - Oct 2, 2004 5:27 am (#482 of 2152)

Being a big brother, Ron wants to approve of Ginny's boyfriends. And it would be like Ginny to tease Ron about dating Dean.

But, Dean is a Half-Blood and still a canidate for the HBP. (Dean is not a leading choice for the HBP only a possible choice.) The fact is we have no information on Dean's biological father. If Dean's real father was a King or Prince than Dean could a Half-Blood Prince.

Princess Ginny, anyone. ;-) GC

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Wisteria - Oct 3, 2004 2:57 pm (#483 of 2152)

I have just finished reading this thread. Alot of people think that Ginny will become a seer and have based this on Ron "seeing" things. When has this happened? I am not convinced that any of them will be a seer. We could be over analyzing parts of the book. Ron and Hermione both broke alot of school rules before they were made prefects. So I do see Ginny as being able to become a prefect. She will be a good one to. She is not someone to take lightly and that would be reason enough for DD to chose her.

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The giant squid - Oct 4, 2004 12:27 am (#484 of 2152)

Wisteria, the "Ron as a seer" theory comes from the fact that a lot of jokes he makes about things never happening actually happen. The "Ginny as seer" stuff is based around her being the 7th child. Use the Search function & look for "Ron", Ginny" and "seer"--it'll point out the pertinent posts without having to slog through hundreds of others.

--Mike

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Oct 5, 2004 7:39 am (#485 of 2152)

No day but Today
I actually don't think Ginny will be a prefect. As others have said before she seems to be on the "Fred and George Route", meaning she is more mischeivious(spelling?) like the twins, not really prefect material.

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Chris. - Oct 5, 2004 7:45 am (#486 of 2152)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Matilda, I don't think she'll be totally like Fred and George. She has a mischievous side, but she's got a lot of Ron, and the other Weasleys, in her as well.

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Oct 5, 2004 7:49 am (#487 of 2152)

No day but Today
That's true. She seems to be a mixture of all her brothers, but I still don't think she'll be a prefect.

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Paulus Maximus - Oct 5, 2004 9:11 am (#488 of 2152)

If not Ginny, then who?

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Good Evans - Oct 5, 2004 9:17 am (#489 of 2152)

Practically perfect in every way
Well, we dont know the prefects in the year above harry so why should we know the prefects in the year below? Likewise we know very few of the current fourth years except those in DA so there may well be other candidates. I agree that I will be surprised if Ginny gets the badge, I think she is a bit too much F and G.

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Julia. - Oct 5, 2004 2:09 pm (#490 of 2152)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
If I may chime in here, I think she'll get a badge. Although we haven't seen much of her, she does appear to have a head on her shoulders, and we've never heard Molly yelling about Ginny disapointing her. In the first four books we really didn't see a lot of Ginny, but she is starting to make her presence known to not only Harry, but to Ron and everyone else. Although she does have quite a bit of Fred and George, she seems to be much more subtle about it, and she is smart enough not to get caught. Thus, I think she will be made a prefect.

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Kelly Kapaoski - Oct 5, 2004 2:35 pm (#491 of 2152)

it will be Ginny Weasley and Colin Creevey who become Prefects for Gryffindor house of their year. Although I might have my doubts on Colin since he missed most of his 1st year on the account that he was petrified.

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TomProffitt - Oct 5, 2004 3:14 pm (#492 of 2152)

Bullheaded empiricist
It's no coincidence that all of Harry's year's non-Slytherin prefects are in the DA. There should be very little doubt in our minds that Dumbledore chose them because he felt he could count on their loyalty as much as he considered their other qualities.
I agree with Kelly, Ginny and Colin have a leg up on the other Gryffindors when it comes time to select prefects for their year.

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Dante Alighieri - Oct 8, 2004 4:10 am (#493 of 2152)

I'm brand new to the forum. Please forgive me if this seems completely mundane, but I studied Italian Literature and Opera at university. I never knew Ginny came from Ginevra until I came to this site. I immediately thought of this, because I knew of the Peragallo opera that used to be quite popular in Italy. Useful? Maybe not, but it is interesting.

ALMIERI, GINEVRA DEGLI. Siena, [c. 1560]. Italian popular literature: a verse chapbook. This charming story has served as libretto for two operas - the first by Teodulo Mabellini premiered in Turin in November 1841, the second by Mario Peragallo put on in Rome in February 1937 - and for a very successful film of 1935 made by Guido Brignone in which Elsa Merlini played Ginevra and Amedeo Nazzari was the male lead. Ginevra is a Florentine of high birth, great beauty and charm; she is greatly admired by Antonio Rondinelli a handsome youth, a painter, of excellent character but lower birth. Her parents reject Antonio and oblige her to marry the much more suitable and rich Francesco Avolanti. Ginevra then catches a disease, dies, and is placed in a mortuary behind Giotto's campanile. A great storm reanimates her and she escapes her coffin. Father, husband and other relations whom she visits and asks for help all take her to be a ghost, but Antonio on whose door she now knocks, as always in love, believes in her and assists her and takes her in. But one day in church her husband recognizes her. Antonio is arraigned for tomb-raiding. Ginevra goes to the bishop. The bishop nicely rules that the first Ginevra is indeed dead and that therefore the person in front of him is free to marry Antonio.

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mrweasley - Oct 8, 2004 6:22 am (#494 of 2152)

Edited by Oct 8, 2004 6:23 am
Welcome to the Forum, Dante!
Interesting reference to a Ginevra, but I really hope that Ginevra's fate, "...catches a disease, dies, and is placed in a mortuary..." bears no foreshadowing parallel to our dear Ginny.

TomProffitt, I like your Tanya Huff quote, and although I'm pretty sure that it wasn't your intention, it's another great connection to Ginny's personality resembling a cat in several ways...

"It's not actually possible to make a cat do something he doesn't want to do."

Mhm. Sounds just like Ginny, no?

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Hollywand - Oct 9, 2004 6:43 am (#495 of 2152)

Gryffindor
A question to those avidly following the Ginny Thread: did Ginny every receive any garments or other items made of dragon hide from her brothers? I don't recall her receiving any dragon hide items, but perhaps I missed the passage in the text. Thanks!

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Tomoé - Oct 9, 2004 8:39 am (#496 of 2152)

Back in business
You didn't miss anything Hollywand, she never receive any dragon hide garments from any of her brother.

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Hollywand - Oct 9, 2004 10:37 am (#497 of 2152)

Gryffindor
Thanks Tomoe!

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riotgrrrl - Oct 13, 2004 10:18 pm (#498 of 2152)

So this is where many of my JKRsite friends have gone...very interesting as Ginny has been my favorite for years and this thread has many interesting notions about her future.

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Maria Dunlavey - Oct 23, 2004 5:42 am (#499 of 2152)

Interesting reference to a Ginevra, but I really hope that Ginevra's fate, "...catches a disease, dies, and is placed in a mortuary..." bears no foreshadowing parallel to our dear Ginny.

Personally, it seems to me that this passage bears some almost frighteningly close parallels to the end of CS, when Ginny was taken down into the Chamber — or at least to what everyone thought happened (they all thought she was dead).

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freshwater - Oct 23, 2004 1:48 pm (#500 of 2152)

Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
About 30 posts back someone asked if anyone viewed Ginny as the "Lady Eowyn"/warrior maiden (RotK) of the wizarding world. Actually, I see Hermione as the/a warrior maiden of the wizarding world. And I se Ginny as the "Arwen" of the wizarding world: the one who provides emotional support, insight(occasional criticism), personal motivation for overcoming/surviving(that romance stuff), and the critical weapon needed to defeat the enemy. What do you think?

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total hatred - Oct 23, 2004 2:58 pm (#501 of 2152)
Now are you implying that Hermione will kill Voldie and Ginny will marry Harry.That can be possible except for the marriage to Harry.

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Maria Dunlavey - Oct 23, 2004 3:15 pm (#502 of 2152)

Personally, I don't think any female character in Lord of the Rings match up to Hermione. One of the few things I dislike about J.R.R. Tolkien's work is that it contains barely any strong female characters. Éowyn is one of the few exceptions. So far, however, I do think that Ginny matches her fairly well: a forceful and important female character who, nevertheless, has a role slightly to the side of that of the main characters. This could, of course, change over the next two books. (Forgive me if my LotR reference isn't accurate; I haven't read the books since February and my view may have been tainted slightly by the movies. Of course, other people might have been thinking of the movies in the first place. I don't know.)

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TomProffitt - Oct 23, 2004 3:28 pm (#503 of 2152)

Bullheaded empiricist
I don't think the works of Tolkein and Rowling compare very well at all. They are too different stylistically.

Harry is on a quest to acquire power to defeat the Dark Lord. Frodo was on a quest to destroy power to defeat the Dark Lord. It gets more dissimilar from their.

Ginny compares more favorably with Meriadoc and Peregrin than with any of the female characters. Tolkein placed significantly less importance on romance in The Lord of the Rings than Jo does in Harry. There is no adequate female role in Tolkein for either Hermione or Ginny.

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Gemini Wolfie - Oct 23, 2004 5:55 pm (#504 of 2152)

Tolkein and Rowling do place an importance on personal choice especially in the way of accepting your position in the sense of not denying the role you are destined to play. It is Harry Potter's destiny to be the one capable of defeating LV, but he needs to live up to being chosen as LV's equal first.

Back to Ginny. Ginny's "talents" seem to be offensive (attacking) in nature: she wants to be a chaser and she's known for her bat-bogey hex. I'm thinking this suggests a more offensive type of role than a sit back type. I feel Hermione would prefer to stay out of the battles if she could. Again this is not to slight Hermione since the greatest masterminds and advisors in stories are great leaders but they are better off to leave the fighting to others.

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TomProffitt - Oct 23, 2004 6:04 pm (#505 of 2152)

Bullheaded empiricist
At the risk of wandering too far off topic, I don't mean to say that comparisons cannot be made, just that the two works don't compare well.

I think Jaxom of Ruatha from McCaffrey's Dragonrider series is a better comparison for Harry than Frodo. (Albeit McCaffrey does not write as well as Rowling or Tolkein in my opinion (much weaker on plot))

Ginny has the potential to grow into so many different kinds of characters I am at a loss to make an adequate comparison. Maybe there's one in Goodkind.

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fortuna major - Oct 23, 2004 7:25 pm (#506 of 2152)

It's been mentioned over and over again on this thread that Tom Riddle poured some of himself into Ginny is CoS. Though it has been debated what parts of himself (soul, memories, power, personality, etc) actually linger in Ginny, I was most interested if any of his memories are buried in the back of Ginny's mind. Something about the experience still haunts her though she can't remember all of it. What if she still remembers those childhood events that made Tom Riddle go bad. Jo has told us (I swear she has though I can't find the quote anywhere) that we will learn more about Riddle's childhood and the circumstances surrounding his birth sometime in these last two books. What if we find out from Ginny?

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Kelly Kapaoski - Oct 23, 2004 8:06 pm (#507 of 2152)

Maybe Ginny picked up a little bit of Parsel Tounge from that whole Diary incident. We do know that Tommy was able to preserve the ability to speak Parel Tounge in his diary

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Witta Woman - Oct 23, 2004 9:24 pm (#508 of 2152)

Someone WAY back in the thread said that they found Ginny to be too perfect and slightly boring because of it. They later said that they found Hermione more interesting. Others replied that Ginny did seem just a little too cool.

I don't know if it's because I identify more with Ginny, but I couldn't disagree more.

Ginny is flawed, as most of the characters are. She has a quick temper. She's secretive, fearful (not uncourageous but has fear which some would see as a flaw), haunted. I know some think that she has a cool ability to be sneaky but I think it's much deeper than that. Harry and Ginny are two sides of the same coin. Harry broods. He gets testy and closes himself off. However, everyone knows that. They can see that he suffers. Ginny does it silently. She is outgoing and sociable but it is a front. When Ginny tells Harry that he is lucky he can forget she was possessed; I get the feeling like she thinks on it more than not.

I think she has nightmares. I think that she fears what Voldemort could do to her, or with her. Insead of yelling or screaming, like Harry, she probably mentally combats these feelings. When she has a nightmare, it is quiet fighting. Just like when she was first fighting Riddle, Ginny will be crying wordlessly. I think this is her biggest flaw. Harry is obviously tight-lipped, while she gets people to forget that she has inner demons.

This could also be her greatest strength. Her battles are all internal, therefore she is more able to understand what others are thinking or feeling. I think this is how she knows just how to help Harry. I also feel that this is how she will be useful in the coming war.

I do believe that there is some importance to the idea that Tom put some of himself into Ginny. I don't think that is was parseltounge or any of his more obvious abilities, but more of his emotions, thoughts, memories, and maybe latent talents. It is with these that Ginny would be strongest and have more of an impact. The greatest weapon against an enemy is to understand them.

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total hatred - Oct 24, 2004 12:26 am (#509 of 2152)

I think that being possesed by Voldie made Ginny stronger but not because he transfered some of his powers to her. It is due the fact that Ginny made an effort to make herself stronger. Being possesed made Ginny realize that she must become stronger or else she might the one who will be cause of the demise of others.

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Maria Dunlavey - Oct 24, 2004 5:28 am (#510 of 2152)

I think that if Ginny retains anything of Riddle's, it's probably not an ability (just because Voldemort used his own voice while possessing Harry at the end of OP doesn't mean that Harry can now talk with LV's voice if he wants to, or at least, I'm assuming it doesn't) or memories (it seems unlikely to me that Ginny would not remember what she'd been doing while possessed, but would remember Riddle's childhood memories — and as to Rowling's comment about learning more about the circumstances of Riddle's birth, most people don't remember their own births), but more, as someone said a while back, a sense of the way Riddle's mind works.

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Gerald Costales - Oct 24, 2004 8:18 am (#511 of 2152)

The fact that Ginny is the youngest and only sister in the Weasley family makes her strong. (I had enough problems dealing with two brothers and I'm a boy.) Ginny also has Molly as a strong role model. Being possessed by Tom Riddles' memory could only strengthen Ginny. I liked Witta Woman's observations on Ginny. Ginny could be having nightmares and dealing with them silently, but Ginny is a survivor not a victim of Tom Riddles' memory. Ginny chooses not to brood like Harry but deals when her problems. Ginny does have a two parents and a large family, something Harry lacks for support emotionally.

Ginny is insightful and will be more important in the next two books. I think Ginny has more magical abilities than she's shown so far. We saw Neville growing and blooming in the last book. I saw Ginny growing and blooming as well. Ginny I believe will have talents similar to the Twins. Ginny isn't a troublemaker like Fred and George but she more than capable. Ginny doesn't have to live up to the pressure of being as good as her brothers like Ron does or is in the shadow of Harry. Ginny is also a friend with Hermione. Hermione is the type of person that strengthens the people around her.

I think all the students at the Battle at the Ministry of Magic will be more important in the next two books. They also pair up nicely - Harry with Ginny, Ron with Hermione, and Neville with Luna. ;-) GC

PS I still think Ginny will be a Seer if she isn't one already. ;-) GC

PSS Ron and Percy have owls, does Ginny have a pet? Hermione didn't get a pet until book 2. Don't know if this is important. It just popped in my head. Alas, earwax. ;-) GC

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Kelly Kapaoski - Oct 24, 2004 11:18 am (#512 of 2152)

accually it was book 3 before Hermione got Crookshanks. But I wouldn't doubt it if Ginny got a Cat or a Kneazle if she is made prefect in book 6.

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fortuna major - Oct 24, 2004 2:14 pm (#513 of 2152)

Maria, I didn't mean that she would share Tom's memories of his own birth, but maybe what he found out about it later and his interpretation of it. Obviously he didn't find out from the Muggle orphanage that his father left his mother because she was a witch. Someone else told him, and it could have been a lie, or Tom could have interpreted and internalized it differently than it actually happened. I thought that if Ginny retained some of those memories we could get the objective version of the events and Tom Riddle's version of the events as he understood and dealt with them.

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The giant squid - Oct 25, 2004 1:53 am (#514 of 2152)

Gerald, I had wondered about Ginny's lack of a pet. I also noticed that the twins didn't have any pets either. Maybe the Weasley's can only afford a new pet every other year? (Ron's first year may have been particularly lean, thus getting the hand-me-down rat.)

--Mike

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mrweasley - Oct 25, 2004 9:12 am (#515 of 2152)

Edited by Oct 25, 2004 9:13 am
Pets are optional, so maybe the twins and Ginny just didn't express the wish to have one. If Ginny gets a pet in book six, though, it's got to be a cat, hasn't it? Surprised)

P.S.: Gerald, I agree with you about Ginny growing with her experience rather than being hurt by it - whether it's the Tom Riddle experience or the burden to have six older brothers. I'm not convinced of this seer thing, but I'm sure she'll be a major character in the next two books!

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wolfgrl - Oct 25, 2004 12:22 pm (#516 of 2152)

Everyone seems to agree that Ginny took a lot away with her after being possessed. But just what is the question. Strength of character, Tom's memories, determination to see the Dork Lard destroyed, or maybe something else. Being how long and how many times she was possessed, maybe it is possible that what she takes away from the situation is knowledge that no one else, not even DD, knows. Perhaps she discovered Voldy is afraid of something (other than DD) or discovered some other weakness. She may not remember at the moment, or not realize the information could be useful. Something small like 'he has a scar on his upper arm, that is why he "scared/marked" his DE there' or 'for some reason he realy dislikes cats.' Who knows what microscopic tid bit of information she could have come away with that could be a giant part of the answer to the entire riddle about Tom Riddle.

Edit: had to put in the bit about the scar for the "Recurring Boy Who Lived Theory (update)" thread.

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haymoni - Oct 25, 2004 12:46 pm (#517 of 2152)

I guess we have to remember that 17-year-old Tom Riddle possessed Ginny, not The-I-tried-to-make-myself-immortal-Lord Voldemort.

There could be the "remains" of Tom Riddle still with her, although if Tom completely disappeared after Harry stabbed the diary, then everything that is "Tom" went with it.

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Maria Dunlavey - Oct 25, 2004 3:03 pm (#518 of 2152)

That's an interesting point — did Harry's destruction of the diary have any affect on Ginny?

If I had been in Ginny's situation, I might come away from the Tom Riddle experience with a resolve to take care of myself and not to need rescue again. I would probably be ashamed and berate myself for being foolish enough to trust the diary, and be sort of embarrassed that Harry had to rescue me — not that I wouldn't be grateful. I would probably resolve to be stronger and smarter (not let that happen to myself again), and fight against LV. I think that's probably close to how Ginny reacted, as well. What do you think?

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haymoni - Oct 25, 2004 9:12 pm (#519 of 2152)

I agree, Maria. Ginny had the daylights scared out of her. She isn't going to let that happen again.

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Witta Woman - Oct 29, 2004 1:36 am (#520 of 2152)

I have this fear that Ginny will end up being used in the coming books. I'm not saying that she wont fight but I think either Voldemort will try, or Dumbledore/Harry/the Order will try to use her because she was previously used by Tom Riddle. It kind of hurts and scares me.

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Kelly Kapaoski - Oct 29, 2004 12:44 pm (#521 of 2152)

I was just thinking: during the first book Ginny didn't go to Hogwarts even though she asked Molly if she could go that year. What did she do during the year that she was at home without any older brothers. here are my thoughts on what she did 1) she broke into the broom shed and rode the broom sticks in there 2) hung out with arthur at the office a couple of times 3) recieved an education from Molly (she probably learned to cook among other things) 4) hung out with Luna Lovegood and/or any Younger Siblings of Cedric

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Gemini Wolfie - Oct 29, 2004 7:47 pm (#522 of 2152)

Well Ginny was too young for Hogwarts so she obviously couldn't go.

I'm sure she was "babysat" by Molly most of the time. Probably played by herself when told to go play. Arthur's office really isn't a place to play around. There should be a broom or two left in the shed for her to ride around with. Somehow I doubt she played with Luna but that would have been nice of them. And I thought Cedric was the only child? (I could be wrong on this). I think it wouldn't have made a big difference whether her brothers were home or not since she wasn't allowed to participate in most things anyways. Although Ron might have played with her more often.

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Czarina II - Oct 30, 2004 10:23 am (#523 of 2152)

Ginny seemed to know Luna when we are first introduced to her on the train in OoP. Perhaps the Weasleys and the Lovegoodes arranged for their daughters to have play-dates with they were little. Ginny doesn't seem to think Luna is loony, just a bit odd.

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Peskipinski - Oct 30, 2004 4:27 pm (#524 of 2152)

Crazy Genius
Okay, I'm brand-new, but Ginny is one of my favorite characters (I sympathize with her overabundance of brothers), so I skimmed the thread.
One of the things I've seen repeatedly is whether Ginny will be a prefect or not. But I haven't seen anybody ask if Ginny wants to become a prefect. Would she have the Gred and Forge "takes all the fun out of life" mindset?
I, also, have seen the multiple cat references to Ginny. Some I don't think have been mentioned: in CoS Ron said she was a cat-lover; in OotP she was introduced as having a "mane" of red-hair. Perhaps these references are just to show us her personality. But, knowing JKR, I'm still looking for the trick.
And to Gemini Wolfie, I was also under the impression Cedric was an only child. He was the only one his father took to the World Cup, no mention of siblings after his death, no siblings when Diggory's parents came to see Harry. But I don't know if it's ever been directly stated.
Also, I never really saw Ginny as having the type of personality needed to be a healer. And if a seer, a very different type from Trelawney.

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Kelly Kapaoski - Oct 30, 2004 7:49 pm (#525 of 2152)

Ginny might shock us all and become a professional quiddich player for the Holyhead Harpies.

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MickeyCee3948 - Oct 30, 2004 8:17 pm (#526 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I believe since Luna was a year behind HRH and in Ginny's year then she probably had classes with her during their first year. I personally like Ginny very much and believe she will be a prefect in HBP. I still hold out hope for a Ginny/Harry ship. Believe they would make a good pair.

Mikie

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Maria Dunlavey - Oct 31, 2004 5:36 am (#527 of 2152)

Well, we know that in OP Ginny has Herbology with the Ravenclaws (Ch. 13, pg. 261 US hardcover), and it would make sense to assume that she has had Herbology with them since first year, seeing as Harry's had Herbology with the Hufflepuffs all along.

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Oct 31, 2004 10:38 am (#528 of 2152)

No day but Today
This is very off topic, but I wanted everyone to know that the door on JKR's site is openable again.

I think the whole possesion thing will make Ginny stronger. I also think that she won't be the "damsel in distress". If you look at her and Hermione's personalities, Ginny is intelligent and very good with emotions and in control of herself. She knows what she needs. Hermione is very intelligent but she also focuses on others. She is always there to help Harry and she doesn't always take care of herself. If anything Hermione is more the damsel in distress type, in the way that she doesn't always take care of herself emtionally.

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mrweasley - Oct 31, 2004 1:17 pm (#529 of 2152)

I agree, Matilda. We've seen Ginny mature as thoroughly as probably nobody else in the novel. To me, she seemed to be one of the emotionally strongest characters by the end of OotP. I wouldn't be surprised if she'd carry any responsibility handed over to her with determination and success - whether as a prefect or otherwise.

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Paulus Maximus - Oct 31, 2004 2:33 pm (#530 of 2152)

"I wanted everyone to know that the door on JKR's site is openable again."

I saw that the Do Not Disturb sign was removed, but I couldn't open that door...

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Kelly Kapaoski - Oct 31, 2004 6:53 pm (#531 of 2152)

I couldn't open the door either; does anyone know how to open it?

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MickeyCee3948 - Oct 31, 2004 6:53 pm (#532 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I foresee Ginny as a Prefect in book 6 - She has matured and has the wisdom and strength to be alot stronger than Ron was in the position. She will take it more seriously.

Mikie

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Hollywand - Oct 31, 2004 7:42 pm (#533 of 2152)

Gryffindor
Hi Mickey, there seem to be two Weasleys who have no dragon hide regalia---Ginny and Percy. This may spell trouble for them in the coming books, methinks. I think it may not be Ron but one of them that is headed for the toaster.

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The giant squid - Nov 1, 2004 3:36 am (#534 of 2152)

Paulus & Kelly: go to the JKR website thread. It has all been explained in detail how to open the door & what you'll find once you do.

Ginny is most definitely going to be a major player in the next two books. She took a strong role in OoP, and I really don't see her backing down any. I can also see her as prefect; sure, she has the same wild side as the twins, but that could only help her. She'll know when someone's hiding something or trying to pull a fast one.

--Mike

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Steve Newton - Nov 1, 2004 7:44 am (#535 of 2152)

Librarian
"one of them that is headed for the toaster"

Very sensitively put.

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Doxy Bowtruckle - Nov 1, 2004 7:50 am (#536 of 2152)

I'm glad someone picked that up Steve, I was sat here shaking my head. A funny expression, but unfortunatly my little boy tried to become toast last year and melted 3 of his fingers! He is fine no permanant damage done although very serious.

Still it's nice to here funny expressions! Smile

I also think that Ginny is a fantastic character and think she will teach Hermione a few things next year.

DoxyB

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Urvi Bhimani - Nov 1, 2004 6:29 pm (#537 of 2152)

Let's hope Ginny teaches Hermione to get together with Ronnie ;-)

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Paulus Maximus - Nov 1, 2004 9:03 pm (#538 of 2152)

I'm not sure she will. She must know how much Ron wants Hermione, and she does enjoy teasing him regarding 'ships...

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Witta Woman - Nov 3, 2004 3:06 pm (#539 of 2152)

I think that anything could happen in the coming books. I just hope that Ginny doesn't succum to Tom again, as some have suggested.

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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 12, 2004 1:17 pm (#540 of 2152)

What dragonhide regalia do the other Weasleys have? I recall Fred and George having their dragonskin coats, but nothing else... other than the dragonhide gloves required for all Hogwarts students (or at least I'm presuming all Hogwarts students are required to get them; it wouldn't make sense to change it, would it?).

Personally, I don't think Tom will pose a further threat. The diary was destroyed, and it's not like JKR to reuse something in that way. Certainly, if Tom does show up again, he won't be a substitute villain for Lord Voldemort — I can't see LV being inactive while his former self takes over the plotline.

I'm still wondering if it's possible that Ginny lost something in the destruction of the diary — maybe even a crucial tidbit of information which would have weighed in dramatically had it been remembered? Does anyone else think that might be possible?

Also, I've been wondering about why Voldemort's possession of Harry at the end of OotP was different from Tom's possession of Ginny in CoS. She says, "Can you remember everything you've been doing? Are there big blank periods where you don't know what you've been up to? ... Then You-Know-Who hasn't ever possessed you." (OP Ch. 23 p. 500 US hardcover) But when Harry does get possessed, he's fully aware of what's going on, and when Dumbledore talks about it afterward, he's not surprised or anything. So does the person doing the possessing decide whether their victim remembers or not?

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Annika - Nov 12, 2004 1:38 pm (#541 of 2152)

When Ginny was possessed by Voldemorte/Tom Riddle, she had no prior connection to him. Harry on the other hand has a very strong connection to him. Part of Voldemort, to an extent, is already inside Harry. Without being possessed, he has felt the Dark Lords emotions and seen his actions. So it makes sense that maybe this pre-existing connection changes the rules. And we all know that Harry has a certain disregard for the rules.

Annika

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Tomoé - Nov 13, 2004 3:10 am (#542 of 2152)

Back in business
Bill have dragon hide boots, that's all the dragon hide I can recall beside the twins coat. As for the possession thing, I believe there's more than one type of possession. I ginny's case, Tom wanted his victim to forget, in Harry's case, he wanted to make him suffer.

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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 17, 2004 7:24 pm (#543 of 2152)

Yeah, I was pretty much thinking what Tomoé said about the possession thing, but I just sort of threw that out there to see if anyone had any other explanations that hadn't occurred to me.

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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 21, 2004 4:33 pm (#544 of 2152)

Wow. I killed the conversation. I guess I'll try to revive it.
Um... Let's see... Ginny...

It's sort of weird. Starting in GoF (Ginny knows who Hermione's date to the Yule Ball is), Ginny and Hermione seem to know a great deal about each other's lives (in OotP, Hermione often tells something about Ginny to Ron or Fred and George that they didn't know before — stealing their brooms to practice, dating Michael Corner), presumably because they're friends. However, I can only think of a few instances of Hermione and Ginny spending time together (talking about love potions with Mrs. Weasley, playing nose games with Tonks), and I can't think of any times when they've been completely off on their own. Am I just not remembering properly? Wait... don't they share a room in GoF? Or am I just imagining things?

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Steve Newton - Nov 21, 2004 6:15 pm (#545 of 2152)

Librarian
I kind of thought that they shared a room at Grimmaud Place. I could be wrong.

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The giant squid - Nov 22, 2004 3:52 am (#546 of 2152)

Ginny and Hermione did seem to know a lot more about each other in OotP... They were rooming together at 12GP (just like Ron & Harry shared a room); maybe they just sat up late at night talking "girl talk". Not being a girl, I have no idea what that would entail but it's a theory. As for GoF, they could hang out in the dorms...once Harry & Ron (especially Harry) go to bed, we don't know what the girls are up to.

--Mike

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Weeny Owl - Nov 22, 2004 3:59 am (#547 of 2152)

In GoF didn't they share a room at The Burrow before everyone went to the Quidditch World Cup? I'm sure they see each other now and then in the restrooms, and who knows what they've talked about when Harry was in detentions with Umbridge, for instance.

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LooneyLuna - Nov 22, 2004 6:55 am (#548 of 2152)

In GoF, Ginny and Hermione also share a tent at the Quidditch World Cup - not that they were in it for too long. They are also in the dorms and although they probably don't share a dorm room, I'm sure they talk more often than not.

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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 22, 2004 10:32 am (#549 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Mike - Having 3 daughters(all grown thank god)and 3 grand daughters(we are still working on getting them grown). I am well aware of the hours upon hours of conversation that goes on when you get two or more young ladies in the same room. Throw in a telephone and the conversation can go on around the clock. But Ginny and Hermione did share a room at #12 and at the burrow, so I am sure they have discussed many things: boys, teachers, boys, parties, boys, other girls, boys and of course boys. You get my drift.

Mikie

Please girls don't be too hard on me.

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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 22, 2004 3:45 pm (#550 of 2152)

I guess I'll offer a bit of insight as to what we girls talk about at sleepovers.... We don't talk about boys that much. I mean, yeah, we do, but it's not like it takes up our lives. We talk about politics. (I can easily imagine Hermione ranting on to Ginny about her opinions on house-elf rights, seeing as my friends are always telling me I'm a lot like Hermione and I like to rant about politics.) One very memorable sleepover, we stayed up for hours after watching the presidential debates, having philosophical discussions (on topics such as patriotism, religion, vegetarianism, etc.). I suppose my friend's brother was there too for that one, though, so maybe it doesn't count. Still, one of my friends once had a five-hour discussion, with all girls, on religion, late at night, so it's perfectly plausible. Um, what else do we talk about... telling funny stories... Yeah, I guess we talk about teachers sometimes. And other girls, I suppose... Not parties so much. I don't really go to parties, other than ones where I have deep philosophical discussions. I don't have much of a life. Um... music ("Metallika is SO much worse than death, you guys" - my friend Emily)... Then there are the juggling demonstrations, although I'm not exactly sure if that counts, because it's not exactly talking.

Basically, I could have saved all that space and just said "almost everything." Oh, one more thing that actually takes up a lot of conversation: Red Sox vs. Yankees. I can imagine Ginny trying to get Hermione interested in Quidditch by describing teams to her, which could lead to the breaking into the shed tidbit... After all, my friend, a die-hard Red Sox fan (even though she's from Texas...), converted both myself and another friend. Neither of us were at all interested in baseball before. Another friend, however, is a Yankees fan. (Another thing we do is try to convince Emily that being a Yankees fan does not necessarily make you evil.)

So, yeah. That was a long and rambling post without all that much relevance, but I felt I had to provide evidence to counter the idea that we teenage girls have half of our minds devoted to boys. I might feel insulted, but the sad thing is that a lot of people my age do talk about almost nothing but boys. However, I think Hermione and Ginny are more like me and my friends than a lot of the ditzes out there. There. I worked the topic in THREE times. Aren't I good?

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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 22, 2004 4:25 pm (#551 of 2152)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Very Good Maria

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dizzy lizzy - Nov 23, 2004 12:16 am (#552 of 2152)

There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
Well done Maria

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Nov 23, 2004 10:25 am (#553 of 2152)

No day but Today
Very nice Maria. I concur. Unfourtunatley I will have to agree with Emily that being a Yankees fan does make you evil.....sorry, I'm a Red Sox fan.......but anyway, yes that is mostly what girls talk about. I'm sure Ginny and Hermione talk about many of those things including boys, speaking of which...anybody think that Ginny knows about Hermione's feelings for Ron? I do.

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mollis - Nov 23, 2004 11:40 am (#554 of 2152)

Maria said: "Also, I've been wondering about why Voldemort's possession of Harry at the end of OotP was different from Tom's possession of Ginny in CoS. She says, "Can you remember everything you've been doing? Are there big blank periods where you don't know what you've been up to? ... Then You-Know-Who hasn't ever possessed you." (OP Ch. 23 p. 500 US hardcover) But when Harry does get possessed, he's fully aware of what's going on, and when Dumbledore talks about it afterward, he's not surprised or anything. So does the person doing the possessing decide whether their victim remembers or not?"

Sorry to back up the conversation, but I wanted to throw in my two cents on this topic. Harry wasn't actually possessed. Harry and Voldemort share a mental connection as a result of the failed AK curse. As Harry's magical abilities and exposure to Voldy have grown, so has the connection. Harry and Voldy are able to enter eachother's minds. It began with Harry observing Voldy's mind without Voldy being aware, and grew to Voldy being able to plant thought's into Harry's mind. During the battle at the ministry, Voldy briefly attempts to possess Harry, but he is unsuccessful. Harry is able to drive Voldy out of him when Harry feels love. So it was not a successful possession.

To contrast, Ginny was fully possessed by diary-Tom. Tom was able to make her do things according to his will. When she had finished what he wanted to accomplish, he left her and she awoke with no memory of those things. I think that if, somehow, Voldy had been able to fully possess Harry, when released he would have had no memory of it.

Or perhaps, to contradict my own opinion, maybe Ginny didn't remember those things because it was too traumatic. A sort of amnesia specific to the times when she was possessed. Maybe over time she has been able to remember what she did while being possessed by the diary. But then that doesn't really fit with her statement to Harry. So, around in another circle. Anybody else able to straighten this one out???

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Steve Newton - Nov 23, 2004 12:14 pm (#555 of 2152)

Librarian
I don't know. It seems that a major difference was that Harry was able, once again, to defeat Lord V. Whether is was magical strength, his love, his strong emotions, the scar, or something else I don't know.

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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 23, 2004 2:07 pm (#556 of 2152)

I think Harry was fully possessed. He was forced into doing something — I don't think he would have said "Kill me now, Dumbledore. If death is nothing, kill the boy" if he had a choice about it. (Not a direct quote — I'm at Mom's office and don't have my books. Sadness.) Yes, Harry did manage to get Voldemort out, but I think he was fully possessed for a little while.

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Julia. - Nov 23, 2004 3:06 pm (#557 of 2152)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
I agree Maria. (BTW, being a Yankee fan does not make you evil ) Harry was posessed, but only for a short time. Voldemort was thrown from Harry's body when he started thinking of Sirius, but before then he was in there posessing him. I too am at Mom's office and don't have books with me, but your quote sounds right.

Tom used a different method to posess Ginny. Since he could not directly enter her body he minipulated her mind. Perhaps part of that minipulation is that she wouln't remember being posessed.

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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 23, 2004 4:27 pm (#558 of 2152)

Ha! I'm home now, so I have the quote!

And then Harry's scar burst open. He knew he was dead: it was pain beyond imagining, pain past endurance —

He was gone from the hall, he was locked in the coils of a creature with red eyes, so tightly bound that Harry did not know where his body ended and the creature's began. They were fused together, bound by pain and there was no escape —

And when the creature spoke, it used Harry's mouth, so that in his agony he felt his jaw move....

"Kill me now, Dumbledore...."

Blinded and dying, every part of him screaming for release, Harry felt the creature use him again....

"If death is nothing, Dumbledore, kill the boy...." (OP36 pp. 815-816 US hardcover)

I definitely think Ginny's possession was less intense. The extreme pain Harry was enduring probably stemmed from the fact that he always feels pain when he's touched by Voldemort, and when he is possessed, Voldemort is taking hold of his very brain.

I just realized that a certain comment by Ginny is very interesting. When she, Ron, and Hermione are confronting Harry when he thinks Voldemort's possessing him, he says that he forgot that she was the only other person he knew who had been possessed. She says, "Lucky you." (I'm paraphrasing, but the passage is OP23 p. 499-500 US hardcover) I take that comment to carry the meaning that she would like very much not to be able to remember her possession, and that it haunts her to some degree. Now, is she only referring to the knowledge that she has been possessed, that she's (in her perspective) been weak enough to let that happen to her, that she's inflicted damage on fellow students, although it was against her will? Or does she actually remember her possession now? Someone said earlier (sorry I can't remember who; it's not on this page) that Ginny might gradually have her memories of possession come back to her. Is it possible that she remembers everything now?

(Julia, Io and I managed to convince Emily that not all Yankees fans are evil, but she still holds firm on the belief that being a Yankees fan is a negative character trait.)

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total hatred - Nov 24, 2004 3:50 pm (#559 of 2152)

This may sound absurd but I think what spell that Tom has casted to Ginny is similar to the one casted by Voldie to the infant Harry but in lesser in power. Remember that JKR said that Voldie had made measures that he will not die. Remember that the results if Tom was sucessful in killing Ginny was he will walk again back in the face of the earth. It is logical that this spell was casted on Harry as a last resort by the half dead Dork Lard. Harry did not die since Voldie has no way of killing him at that moment. I believe the spell some sort bounded the two souls together. As one weakens, the other one gets stronger. The stronger one will gain the ability to control the weaker party at a certain degree. As it gets stronger the extent of the control increases. The reason why Harry still regains his control is the fact that he exerted some sort of resistance to Voldie's control where in Ginny barely resisted Tom's control.

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Tomoé - Nov 24, 2004 6:36 pm (#560 of 2152)

Back in business
Very interesting thought total. Take 20 pts for house.

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Gerald Costales - Nov 26, 2004 9:46 am (#561 of 2152)

"The reason why Harry still regains his control is the fact that he exerted some sort of resistance to Voldie's control where in Ginny barely resisted Tom's control." total hatred

I agree with the first part. But, Ginny didn't resist because she didn't know she was posessed, thus the blank periods of not remembering anything. When she wakes up and see her clothes dirty and her hands stained, Ginny knows something is wrong but doesn't know why. Remember, Ginny wanted to talk to Percy.

At some point Ginny must think the Diary had something to do with the blanks in her memory, etc. because Ginny does try to flush the diary down the loo. Tom doesn't have total control over Ginny because even Tom is surprised but pleased when his Diary is opened by Harry not Ginny.

You can't avoid something thrown at you unless you see or know it's coming. Ginny was caught unaware. But, Harry is aware of Voldermort. And, Harry is hopefully on guard to resist him. ;-) GC

PS About Ginny having some memories now because of the posession, I'm not really sure.

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total hatred - Nov 26, 2004 10:34 pm (#562 of 2152)

That is why there is no resistance, she did't know that she was possesed. If Ginny was aware of that fact, she might put up a fight.

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Czarina II - Nov 27, 2004 8:05 pm (#563 of 2152)

Ah, thanks for clarifying, total hatred. For a minute, I thought you were calling Ginny a incapable weakling.

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Peskipinski - Nov 28, 2004 1:04 am (#564 of 2152)

Crazy Genius
But, Ginny must have realized something was up, or she wouldn't have dumped the diary. After that I believe she might have fought. I don't have my book with me, anybody remember how long it was from that point to the Chamber scenes?

(BTW, I'm with Emily on Yankees fans. Then again, I think it a negative characteristic to be anything but a Royals fan. Sad as that may be. ;-) )

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Paulus Maximus - Nov 28, 2004 8:54 pm (#565 of 2152)

Ginny became aware of the fact, and she did put up a fight.

Well, she might not have known that she was possessed per se, but she must have known that the blank spells were Bad, and that the diary was the reason that she got the blank spells.

When you recognize something bad, and you recognize its source, what's the first thing you do?

(If anyone here wouldn't get rid of the source... well, sorry...)

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TomProffitt - Nov 29, 2004 5:38 pm (#566 of 2152)

Bullheaded empiricist
"When you recognize something bad, and you recognize its source, what's the first thing you do?" --- Paulus Maximus

Ever been a smoker, Paulus?

Sometimes recognition is insufficient.

Riddle had a hold on Ginny, and it may still be there. Ginny's powerful, but she may be very weak where Lord Voldemort is concerned. Capable against Death Eaters, weak against He Who Must Not Be Named.

The future for Ginny may be quite bad.

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Paulus Maximus - Nov 29, 2004 5:54 pm (#567 of 2152)

I stand corrected.

That Ginny was able to rid herself of the diary at all after becoming addicted to it suggests incredible willpower. If anything, the diary would be even more addictive than tobacco, I think.

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constant vigilance - Nov 29, 2004 6:28 pm (#568 of 2152)

art student
"Riddle had a hold on Ginny, and it may still be there. Ginny's powerful, but she may be very weak where Lord Voldemort is concerned. Capable against Death Eaters, weak against He Who Must Not Be Named." --TomProffitt

Not so sure I agree with you, Tom. Ginny has demonstrated her strength of character on numerous occasions. Keep in mind that she was only 11 when she was possessed by Tom Riddle, and was only in her first year of official wizarding education. As much magic as she would have picked up at home prior to Hogwarts, this was the first time she was allowed to actually use the knowledge she was in possession of. And if Ron is a fair example to use (he may or may not be, but bear with me here) the Weasley children were not much more capable of casting spells and doing magic than Muggle-born kids were in their first year.

Now that Ginny has had some proper training, and she's matured as an individual, I believe she is quite a force to be reckoned with, and Voldemort is no exception.

Edited to add: Also, when Ginny was talking to the diary, Tom Riddle shared some secrets with her--part of his manipulation to keep her talking. Voldemort has a tendency to share secrets with people before he kills them: he told Harry about his Muggle father, something that isn't common knowledge in the Wizarding World. There was no perceivable risk in sharing this with Harry, as Harry was not supposed to live to spread the word---and yet he did. Who knows what Tom Riddle shared with Ginny--it's entirely possible that she knows things about him that nobody else is aware of; knowledge that may work against him. The existence of Ginny is probably something of a thorn in his side, and if she is able to recollect that year, she could very possibly play a major role in his downfall.

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Julia. - Nov 29, 2004 7:28 pm (#569 of 2152)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Oh, good point Constant V! Secret telling is one of Voldie's major weaknesses, so perhaps some of the things he told Ginny could come into play in his final downfall. It would just be a matter of accesing them if Ginny has no recolation of the information. Meh, I'm sure Dumbledore or Hermione will come up with something.

As for Ginny being weak against Voldie, I agree with you Constant V. Ginny is a big girl now, and has proven herself capable against the DEs. I think that with some help, either from Dumbledore or Harry she can get past whatever weaknesses she has from the posession. BTW, does Voldie even know that as Tom he posessed Ginny? Lucious probally told him about it, but does he have any way of knowing what he may have told her?

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Peskipinski - Nov 29, 2004 7:47 pm (#570 of 2152)

Crazy Genius
That's a good point cv. We need to remember that Ginny was only 11 at the time. Tom Riddle was a 16 year old memory (and who knows what extra powers he might have had in that form) strong and smart enough to find the Chamber, something nobody else had ever managed to do.

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TomProffitt - Nov 29, 2004 7:56 pm (#571 of 2152)

Bullheaded empiricist
The point I was trying to make is simply this: contact with the diary may have weakened Ginny in regard to Voldemort.

I don't necessarily think that that's the case, but it may be so.

The fact is Ginny was attacked and ultimately defeated by an inanimate object (only Harry's intervention saved her from certain death). We have no way of knowing if this makes her weaker to the living creator of that object.

It is not my intention to imply Ginny is weak, I merely wish to point out a potential vulnerability.

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Czarina II - Nov 29, 2004 8:09 pm (#572 of 2152)

The diary wasn't entirely inanimate. It contained an independently-thinking, living Tom Riddle. It functioned like a cage. Open a cage with a tiger in it and the tiger attacks -- well, you weren't defeated by the cage! :-) Tom probably acted like a friend to Ginny. Maybe he even seemed like a boyfriend (in the child-crush way still) for the eleven-year-old Ginny. Quite a few girls that age fall head over heels for older teenage boys, though I'm not thinking anything other than innocent!

If anything, I think Ginny hates Voldemort all the more now. He disgusts her. On the other hand, 70-year-old Voldemort has no idea what Ginny knows, or even that she had the diary (unless Lucius told him). He might go after her in an attempt to silence her and get Harry at the same time.

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TomProffitt - Nov 29, 2004 8:12 pm (#573 of 2152)

Bullheaded empiricist
I don't disagree Czarina, I'm trying to point out a potential weakness, not one I am certain exists. I am unwilling to completely cast it aside, I think the diary had less power than Voldemort, not more, regardless of circumstance.

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Peskipinski - Nov 29, 2004 9:23 pm (#574 of 2152)

Crazy Genius
But it was a different type of power, whether more powerful or not. People were willing to trust Tom Riddle, confide in him. Tom himself pointed this out to Harry in the Chamber. But who would willingly confide anything to Voldemort? Perhaps you could even call Riddle likable. Actually, I think Harry might have said something along those lines...

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mollis - Nov 30, 2004 8:18 am (#575 of 2152)

Edited by Nov 30, 2004 7:21 am
There is an archived thread that discussed all sorts of theorys about the diary and its connection to real-life Voldemort. It is here: Zelmia "The Very Secret Diary" 11/19/04 12:34am I highly recommend checking it out.

As to whether or not Ginny was weak to succumb to the diary, I would say maybe she was a little bit. She was in a new school where her big brothers all had established friends and activities. She probably felt lost and left out and was trying to find friends. Plus she had this huge crush on Harry and he barely acknowledged her. She began writing in the diary to release these feelings. Diary-Tom was able to use her feelings against her. He played the part of sympathetic friend coaxing information from her about Harry and Voldy's downfall (from diary-Tom's perspective - it was information about his future). In turn, to further earn her trust, we are told that diary-Tom shared information with Ginny. I do think that this information will play a part later on. The question is whether she remembers these things now, and just hasn't realized their importance, or can't remember any of it. I am of the opinion that she must be able to remember their conversations through the diary. At least most of them. She wasn't being possessed until she had poured enough of herself into the diary. The actions she performed she may not remember, but the important information likely wouldn't have been revealed while killing roosters. It would have been during the early conversations when he was trying to earn her trust. (Edited to add: It is interesting to me that diary-Tom had to develop a connection to Ginny before he could posses her. It is making me wonder if her and Harry's experiences are really so different.)

Now, Ginny's weakness was that of someone looking for a friend. Someone to confide in. She was in a new school, alone and probably scared about what was to come in the school year. Ginny has changed a great deal since her first year. She is no longer that scared little kid with a big crush and no friends. She and Hermione are able to confide in each other. She has conquered her crush on Harry (I'm not saying that she doesn't have feelings for him, but she is no longer paralyzed by her crush. She is able to date other boys and enjoy herself.). She is also playing Quidditch. All of this support has allowed Ginny to become a much stronger person. I don't think that there is any way the she would fall for diary-Tom's tricks again.

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TomProffitt - Nov 30, 2004 1:50 pm (#576 of 2152)

Bullheaded empiricist
I'm viewing Ginny's potential weakness more in the way of Harry's weakness towards Lord Voldemort.

Because of the rebounded curse from Harry to Voldemort they have a connection. A connection which gives Harry access to some of the Dark Lords thoughts, but also makes him a target for deception. While Quirrel could not touch Harry, Lord Voldemort can possess Harry.

The potential weakness I see in Ginny is that her previous connection to the Diary opens her potentially to some sort of attack or possession from Lord Voldemort. Voldemort is likely unaware of the possibilities, but may have learned of them from Pettigrew.

While Ginny has shown nothing but strength since CoS, I believe there is a potential for danger lurking over her.

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total hatred - Nov 30, 2004 3:12 pm (#577 of 2152)

I disagree with you. What Tom has done to Ginny has nothing to do with Voldie. I think the prerequisite to be able to posses someone is to be able to acess the target's thoughts. Now that Ginny has learned her lesson, I think Ginny is prepared to any attempts to posses her.

If I may be allowed to be a bit offtopic, what are your thoughts if Voldie tried to posses Ron. Will be he will be sucessful? In my opinion, even though Ron might put a fight, he is the easiest Weasley to be possessed. He is sick and tired being a nobody and he might be tempted to to power Voldie is offering to him. He is also has the the tendency to give in to pressure

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mooncalf - Nov 30, 2004 4:57 pm (#578 of 2152)

It is a bit off-topic, but since you ask, I think that Ron is stronger than you give him credit for. In his first year, he was as vulnerable as Ginny - feeling sorry for himself because of his second-hand robes and wand and rat. But at this point, Ron would no longer see the same things he saw in the Mirror of Erised as he did the first year. He is now a prefect and a Quidditch hero, and he has matured.

He may not be the strongest of the Weasleys, but I think that all the Weasleys are made of pretty strong stuff..

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Peskipinski - Nov 30, 2004 7:48 pm (#579 of 2152)

Crazy Genius
She was in a new school where her big brothers all had established friends and activities. She probably felt lost and left out and was trying to find friends. Plus she had this huge crush on Harry and he barely acknowledged her. She began writing in the diary to release these feelings.

I pretty much agree with you, but thought I should remind you that she seems to have been writing in the diary before arriving at Hogwarts. However, the crush on Harry was obviously still there, and doubtless she was nervous about starting Hogwarts.

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Kelly Kapaoski - Dec 1, 2004 6:19 am (#580 of 2152)

after that diary incident in her 1st year I wouldn't put it past Ginny to want to get stronger. She even managed to impress the twins with how powerful she has gotten in the 2 years between the end of CoS and the begining of OotP. I wonder if the twins were the test subjects for her Bat Bogy Hex. That would have been interesting to see Molly about ready to yell at the twins then find out that it wasn't one of their pranks but accually the twins getting hit with a Hex because they tried to prank Ginny.

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Gerald Costales - Dec 1, 2004 6:42 am (#581 of 2152)

Off topic: Why is it that Ginny (Bat Bogey Hex, etc.) and apparently other Wizard & Witch children get to practice Underage Magic? Is the MoM targeting Harry? Or is it the fact that Harry lives in a Muggle household?

Back on topic: I agree Ginny is a strong person and has matured alot from her 1st year at Hogwarts. I am not certain to what extend that Tom Riddle's possession may have weaken Ginny's resistance to Voldermort.

I'm thinking of a badly sprained ankle or trick knee. A person can function normally going months and year without any incidents but that old injury can just flare up again and the person can't function normally.

I read about a soldier that seemed fully recovered from a bullet that was still lodged in his leg. Years later, the soldier had a fever and a boil appeared on his leg. When the boil is lanced, out spilled the long ignored and forgotten bullet.

Hopefully Ginny can handle another incident with Voldermort. But, remember Harry was more affected by the presense of Dementors while others remained unaffected. The posession by Tom Riddle could have affected Ginny leaving her vunerable with no hint of any weakness. ;-) GC

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rambkowalczyk - Dec 1, 2004 7:34 am (#582 of 2152)

Ginny's bat bogey hex may have been done in her 3rd (harry's 4th) year at Hogwarts not at home.

It's possible that the Ministry might be a little more "understanding" when it comes to "purebloods" doing magic at home. But I would speculate that a family would need to get special permission to allow a child to do magic over the summer. Lots of paperwork to be filled out. After Dumbledore's confrontation with Fudge in June (after Cedric's death), I would think the Ministry would be keeping an extra eye on the Weasley family making sure they don't break any rules.

Were there any examples of Magic Ginny may have done during the summer?

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Paulus Maximus - Dec 1, 2004 8:38 am (#583 of 2152)

There is the Decree for the Restriction of Underage Wizardry, and then there's the Statute of Secrecy.

When magic is done in a wizard's house, in the absence of any muggles, there is zero probability of violation of the Statute of Secrecy. Besides, I'm sure that people can do pretty much whatever they want on their own property, so long as it does not offend the neighbors (or so long as it's kept secret from the neighbors).

For example, it is illegal in the States to serve alcohol to persons under age 21, but even though I'm not 21 yet, my parents occasionally let me taste wine when I'm in their house...

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mooncalf - Dec 1, 2004 10:13 am (#584 of 2152)

The Ministry doesn't always know who does the magic, just that it is being done. When Dobby hovered the pudding, Harry got the warning, presumably because he was the only known magical persion in the area. Perhaps in a Wizarding house, if magic is being performed, the Ministry would assume that one of the adults who lived there was responsible.

It's not that it's allowed, it's just that it's harder to catch.

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Peskipinski - Dec 2, 2004 2:57 am (#585 of 2152)

Crazy Genius
Or perhaps the MoM long ago gave up trying to deal with Fred and George and left that to Molly. Very Happy But I agree with Mooncalf.

I'm thinking of a badly sprained ankle or trick knee. A person can function normally going months and year without any incidents but that old injury can just flare up again and the person can't function normally.

That is a good point. Perhaps somewhat like Harry's scar, only with different triggers?

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Maria Dunlavey - Dec 3, 2004 6:53 pm (#586 of 2152)

Good point, Mooncalf. Also (and sorry if someone has already mentioned this and I missed it by skimming), at the end of SS, slips are handed out reminding students not to do magic over the holidays, and Fred or George says, "I always hope they'll forgot to give us these." (Sorry I don't have the direct quote; my brother's got my book. He's such a slow reader — he got through the whole ordeal with Quirreldemort yesterday and he's STILL not done! Grr!)

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TomProffitt - Dec 7, 2004 7:35 pm (#587 of 2152)

Bullheaded empiricist
I've been listening to OotP recently and was struck by something.

I do not believe that Ginny got the idea for the garroting gas in the corridor from Fred & George. Her matter of fact and quick reply about it is very reminiscent of the way she has told other bald faced lies(e.g. Crookshanks & the dungbombs). The gas, by her description, sounds potentially fatal to me. Where did this bizarre idea come from? What does it imply?

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wwtMask - Dec 8, 2004 6:56 am (#588 of 2152)

Assuming it's real stuff, I don't think garotting gas can be too harmful. It sounds the same as what happens when you get splinched except your parts are all in the same place. For that matter, getting injured in what would normally be a fatal or life-threatening way seems to be more of an uncomfortable inconvenience in the WW.

I think this is another example of Ginny's intelligence, quick wit, and flawless poker face.

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Paulus Maximus - Dec 8, 2004 8:48 am (#589 of 2152)

If garroting gas is not harmful, then Ginny's cover has been blown...

Even if the students don't know what garroting gas is, some of them are going to try to find out. And when they find out that it isn't harmful at all...

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TomProffitt - Dec 8, 2004 1:52 pm (#590 of 2152)

Bullheaded empiricist
Yes, yes, but why did she lie about where she got the idea? (At least she's acting like lie she's lying)

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wwtMask - Dec 8, 2004 2:55 pm (#591 of 2152)

Maybe she got the idea for the garrotting gass cover story from Gred and Forge?

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Maria Dunlavey - Dec 8, 2004 6:42 pm (#592 of 2152)

I believe that Ginny got the idea for Garroting Gas from Fred and George. I think that being a good liar (although I wouldn't really know, because I'm not — although the road block for me is more to keep a straight face) involves being able to pull possible cover stories from random parts of your life. As an alternative, she could have merely said she got the idea from Fred and George to... try to make her abilities seem less impressive. Plenty of people write off their own talents, myself included.

As to the nature of Garroting Gas, Ginny says to a person who wants to go into the corridor, "we'll have your body as proof." (It's in Out of the Fire, too lazy to look up the page right now — I love having just finished an OotP reread.) I don't think it's lethal — it wouldn't really be plausible for a student to have released a lethal gas in a corridor at Hogwarts, and Fred and George certainly wouldn't. In my opinion, it probably just knocks someone unconscious, or maybe causes some slightly more lasting effects, but nothing Madam Pomfrey couldn't cure.

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Peskipinski - Dec 10, 2004 12:58 pm (#593 of 2152)

Crazy Genius
Even if the students don't know what garroting gas is, some of them are going to try to find out. And when they find out that it isn't harmful at all...

They'll know she was lying. Or they'll think she was wrong. Either way, probably not a huge deal. Maybe they'll just write it off as her having grown up with Fred and George.

In my opinion, it probably just knocks someone unconscious

Yes, she just said "We'll have your body...," not "We'll have your dead or horribly disfigured body..." We really have no idea what it does. But her offhand mention of it makes me wonder if we might see the actual stuff before the end of the books.

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total hatred - Dec 11, 2004 1:03 am (#594 of 2152)

I think the garroting gas was designed to choke the victim. Meaning slow and agonizing death due to strangulation. I believe that word is derived from garrote, a instrument used in executing criminals which the victim is slowly choked to death. In the process, it also breaks your neck and the device looks like some sort of oversized clamp

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Gerald Costales - Dec 22, 2004 8:32 am (#595 of 2152)

How many people think that Ginny will take up where the Twins left off? There may not be an Umbridge to harass but Snape and possibly the new DADA teacher may need to be put in their place.

Plus, I think that the Junior Death Eaters - Draco, Crabbe, & Goyle, will have recovered from being turned into slugs. Draco and company will be challenging the DA at Hogwarts. Who better than Ginny Weasley to spread some Fred & George type mayhem against the enemies of the DA. ;-) GC

"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of terror, victory however long the road may be; for without victory there is no survival." Winston Churchill

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Tomoé - Dec 22, 2004 9:41 am (#596 of 2152)

Back in business
I don't think there will be a need for it, and I don't think the next DADA teacher will have much in common with any of the 5 previous, too déjà-vu. Edit : The Ministry have nothing to gain with a Umbridge II, if they apoint the next DADA teacher, he won't be that meddlesome.

None of the Weasley kids are the same that any other, they are in fact very different. None other act like Bill, none other act like Charlie, none other act like Percy and none other act like Ron, even Fred and George, though very close, have subtile differences. They all have different interests, strenghts and flaws and personalities, so I don't see why Ginny would become that close to what the twins are.

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scoop2172000 - Dec 22, 2004 9:48 am (#597 of 2152)

An area I do see Ginny taking after her brothers is on the Quidditch pitch, but making her own mark as a chaser.

Charlie's been a seeker, the twins beaters, and Ron a keeper. Ginny shining as a chaser would round out the Quidditch excellence in the Weasley family -- and I think this family excellence reputation would boost Ron's chances to become Captain, like he saw in the Mirror of Erised.

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Kelly Kapaoski - Dec 22, 2004 10:25 am (#598 of 2152)

Ginny might take over where her older brothers left off and become trouble maker in chief; but we might all be shocked by a group of first years taking the top spot as a group of troublemaker hopefuls. I have 10 galleons that says that whoever will be the new trouble makers in chief are going to be a product of Gryffindor house.

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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 22, 2004 12:32 pm (#599 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I think Ginny is above that. I believe she will partake of a little mischief making upon occasion but not to the extent of Fred & George. I believe Ginny is maturing very fast and since she has been possessed by Tom understands that the childhood games she might have preferred to be a part of must be put aside for the present time.

MIkie

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Maria Dunlavey - Dec 22, 2004 5:57 pm (#600 of 2152)

Of all the Weasley siblings, Ginny seems the closest to Fred and George. They tell her what they're planning, and so on. If any Weasley is likely to follow in their footsteps, she is. However, she is an individual. If she follows the troublemaking tradition, I think she's more likely to do it her own way. Fred and George do have a distinct style. I think Ginny might be more subtle in her own troublemaking. I do think she's more the troublesome sort than Ron. But Ginny won't merely "continue the work" of Fred and George — she'll leave her own mark.

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Ginny Weasley Empty Ginny Weasley (Post 601 to 650)

Post  Elanor Wed May 04, 2011 10:28 am

Gerald Costales - Dec 22, 2004 10:11 pm (#601 of 2152)
"But Ginny won't merely "continue the work" of Fred and George — she'll leave her own mark." Maria Dunlavey

Maria D., well said, I agree with you completely Ginny will be a force to be reckoned with. Ginny is an extremely strong female character, possibly only second to Herimone in strength of character and determination. (She would be an excellent partner for Harry.) ;-) GC

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Julia. - Dec 29, 2004 11:24 am (#602 of 2152)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
A very strange thought crossed my mind at 4:00 this morning. During Christmas in PS/SS Arthur and Molly went to visit Chalie in Romania. Bill was in Egypt, Fred, George, Percy and Ron were at Hogwarts. Where was Ginny?

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mooncalf - Dec 29, 2004 12:57 pm (#603 of 2152)

I would assume that she went with Mom and Dad, but Ron just didn't mention it.

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Gerald Costales - Dec 31, 2004 10:12 am (#604 of 2152)

Or maybe Ginny was staying with Luna. Doen't Luna live near the Weasley's? Happy New Year. Everyone. ;-) GC

PS Luna & Ginny could have been working on a Love Potion for Ginny to use on Harry. Mrs. Ginny Potter, now that does have a certain ring to it. ;-) GC

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Julia. - Jan 3, 2005 2:50 pm (#605 of 2152)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
OK, if she went with her parents, how did she get there? It's far too long to floo from England to Romania. They couldn't drive, and Ginny can't apperate.

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The One - Jan 3, 2005 3:46 pm (#606 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
OK, if she went with her parents, how did she get there? It's far too long to floo from England to Romania. They couldn't drive, and Ginny can't apperate.

Do we know anything about distance limits on flo powder?

Anyway, Ginny, Ron, the twins and Percy, all whom was below apperating ages (Well, I Percy was old enoygh, but did not pass his test until GoF) went to Egypt in PoA, so it certainly is possible to travel with children.

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Gerald Costales - Jan 4, 2005 6:58 am (#607 of 2152)

How about a portkey? There was a network of them set up to transport Wizards and Witches during the Quidditch World Cup. There has to be a Wizarding World equivalent to international airports, etc. that gets Wizards and Witch around the world. Brooms seem too slow for long trips. Dumbledore uses a Thestral instead of a broom. Getting to Romania could take a method of transportation exclusive to the Wizard World.

Also, Arthur connected the Dursley's fireplace with the Floo system of chimneys. Knowing Arthur, he could have had found a way legal or *cough* other than legal (remember the Ford Anglia) to get Ginny, Molly, and himself to Romania. I wouldn't put in past Arthur having a family sized flying carpet, just for *cough* research mind you.

Wouldn't there be an equivalent to a Eurail Pass in the Wizarding World? The Wizards have the equivalent to fellyphones and the internet. But, JKR just hasn't gotten around to giving us all the details. Even the Order has a method of communication just using their wands that's equal to talking in the Floo fire. Harry didn't know about that method of communication used by the Order and sneaked into Umbridge's office to use her fireplace to reach 12 GP.

Knowing Molly, I could see her having Ginny stay with friends (the Lovegoods perhaps) and family just because Romania is just an unknown and possibly unsafe place. Imagine the fit Molly had when Charlie told her about working in the Romania. Molly to say the least is overly protective. But then again looking at the Weasleys, Molly has had some good reasons to worry so much about the safety of her family. ;-) GC

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Julie Aronson - Jan 4, 2005 4:57 pm (#608 of 2152)

Alternately, Ginny could have stayed with the Grangers. Considering how much time Hermione spends at the Weasleys' house, it would seem reasonable to think her parents would want to reciprocate.

Julie

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Robert Dierken - Jan 4, 2005 7:15 pm (#609 of 2152)

Perhaps they took the Knight Train through the Chunnel!

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 4, 2005 9:10 pm (#610 of 2152)

LOL Robert. That would be entertaining to say the least. LPO

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Amilia Smith - Jan 4, 2005 9:17 pm (#611 of 2152)

You can take a broom to Romania, though. Remember in PS, when HRH were desperate to get rid of Norbert, and Charlie has his friends pick him (Norbert) up on their way to visit him (Charlie)? They were all on brooms.

That said, I do think Romania is too far to take a 10 yr old on a broom.

Mills.

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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 4, 2005 9:19 pm (#612 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
She could piggy back with Molly

Mikie

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Julia. - Jan 4, 2005 10:10 pm (#613 of 2152)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Oh, I forgot about portkeys. That actually seems like the most likely option. You're right Amilia, Charlie's friends did fly to Romania from Hogwarts, but it is quite a distance and I'm relativly sure that our dear over-positive Molly would not want her little girl in the air for that long.

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scoop2172000 - Jan 5, 2005 6:42 am (#614 of 2152)

I think Charlie's friends had to fly from Romania to Hogwarts and back because the trip involved transporting a dragon. I think it unlikely they could have used a portkey to transport Norbert.

My theory is Ginny went to Romania with Arthur and Molly and that they probably used a portkey for the trip. I can't see her parents leaving Ginny with a babysitter for the Christmas holidays. Ron had a second home - Hogwarts - to celebrate the holidays.
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Maria Dunlavey - Jan 5, 2005 10:31 am (#615 of 2152)

Charlie's freiends didn't necessarily fly all the way to Romania. Brooms could merely be the easiest way to get in and out of Hogwarts with a dragon. After all, you can't apparate, and there aren't many private, secluded fireplaces to use. I'm not saying that they didn't fly to Romania — it might be the best way to get there without being noticed for having an illegal dragon — but brooms might have only been a temporary mode of transportation for Norbert-removal.

I think Ginny probably went with Arthur and Molly to Romania, as well.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 5, 2005 7:22 pm (#616 of 2152)

I think they probably booked a portkey. LPO

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timrew - Jan 6, 2005 4:18 pm (#617 of 2152)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
I just hope they didn't use Floo Powder. Norbert might have got stuck in a chimney.....

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Tomoé - Jan 10, 2005 1:30 am (#618 of 2152)

Back in business
Maybe they get to Romania by Muggle train ... not glamour but still efficient.

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Gerald Costales - Jan 10, 2005 5:52 am (#619 of 2152)

"Maybe they get to Romania by Muggle train . . ." Tomoe'

Thinking of how Molly reacted to Arthur's stitches while in St. Mungo, I’d think Molly is not so open minded to doing think in a Muggle way. I doubt Molly is prejudiced. But, Molly certainly would prefer Magic over any type of Muggle transportation whether train or airplane. Just my 2 Knuts. ;-) GC

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Kelly Kapaoski - Jan 10, 2005 8:43 am (#620 of 2152)

that whole train theory might not be that far off. They might have taken the Hogwarts Express to Romania since it doesn't do anything except for 2 days out of the year.

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Tomoé - Jan 10, 2005 2:55 pm (#621 of 2152)

Back in business
Right Kelly, maybe the Horwarts Express is not the only train the Wizarding World is using. After all the Hogwarts Express doesn't stop at Hogwarts itself, maybe it's the Hogsmeade/Hogwarts station and the train is used all over the year.

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Amilia Smith - Jan 10, 2005 5:37 pm (#622 of 2152)

They take the muggle underground to visit the hospital, so I think it is certainly possible that they could get to Romania by muggle train.

Mills.

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Gerald Costales - Jan 14, 2005 6:51 am (#623 of 2152)

"They take the muggle underground to visit the hospital . . ." Mills

They could have taken the Muggle Underground because the Wizard methods of transport were being watched by the MoM. But, maybe like Arthur some of the Weasleys like to interact with Muggles and learn Muggle ways. ;-) GC

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Weeny Owl - Jan 14, 2005 10:10 am (#624 of 2152)

They would have to have a very special magical train to go from England to Romania, unless there's a magical tunnel under the English Channel.

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Catherine - Jan 14, 2005 10:34 am (#625 of 2152)

Canon Seeker
LOL, Weeny Owl.

Perhaps Molly allowed Arthur to fly Ginny and her in the Ford Anglia? Nah. She wouldn't allow him to do it in CoS when they were extremely late, so I doubt she would do it for a vacation.

Interesting thoughts. I do think, though, this thread needs to get back to talking about more about Ginny and less about magical transportation.

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Weeny Owl - Jan 14, 2005 11:19 am (#626 of 2152)

Agreed, Catherine.

It doesn't really matter what happened with Ginny during the Romania trip. She could have stayed with friends or gone with them. Those details don't matter, really.

What interests me quite a bit about Ginny is how often she's compared with a cat.

While being an Animagus is rare, that doesn't mean it won't happen again, and it happening with one of the six from the Department of Mysteries battle would work for me. Ginny is certainly brave, and I can easily see her morphing into a cat and wandering around Hogwarts. Maybe she could even spy on Draco and company.

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Catherine - Jan 14, 2005 1:38 pm (#627 of 2152)

Canon Seeker
I've been thinking about that, too, Weeny Owl.

Ginny's hair is described as a "mane;" she curls up "catlike" in a chair; she makes a noise like "an angry cat."

I can quite see Ginny as a lioness!
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Tomoé - Jan 14, 2005 1:40 pm (#628 of 2152)

Back in business
One of the people who attend the Edimburg interview said she asked Jo if there was a connection between Ginny and the cats and she answered no. It was on TLC if I remember well.

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Catherine - Jan 14, 2005 1:46 pm (#629 of 2152)

Canon Seeker
Hmm. I just came back from checking Madame Scoop's, and Quick Quotes, and I can't find that information about Ginny.

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Weeny Owl - Jan 14, 2005 1:54 pm (#630 of 2152)

The only thing I remember her saying is that there is no connection between Snape and bats, but I can't find anything about Ginny and cats either.

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Tomoé - Jan 14, 2005 2:30 pm (#631 of 2152)

Back in business
Here's the quote:
Diagon Nilly, "JK Rowling at the Edinburgh Festival - Aug 15th" #157, 18 Aug 2004 7:26 am

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Catherine - Jan 14, 2005 3:07 pm (#632 of 2152)

Canon Seeker
Thanks, Tomoe, it's good to have the link.

I'm a little concerned, though, that someone seems to be reporting a private conversation. It looks legitimate, though.

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Tomoé - Jan 14, 2005 3:26 pm (#633 of 2152)

Back in business
Well, it's worth what's it's worth, it could be all made up, still I wanted you all to remember the quote so you could all see for yourself.

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Catherine - Jan 14, 2005 3:36 pm (#634 of 2152)

Canon Seeker
Tomoe,

It's all good. I knew you, of all people, would not be reporting that JKR said something if it were not true.

From the quote you provided, though, it does look like there was a "No, Ginny does not have a cat animagus" with a big "BUT" attached.

It reminds me of the Petunia quote, where Petunia is a Muggle..."BUT..."

Sigh. Back to Ginny...I do think her personality---she seems to have stealthy ways--aligns well with certain cat traits. Of course, I'm a "dog person," so what do I know?

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 14, 2005 8:42 pm (#635 of 2152)

I would love her to be a cat animagus. She could get old Mrs. Norris! LPO

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Weeny Owl - Jan 14, 2005 9:18 pm (#636 of 2152)

Well, dang it, Tomoe, you broke my little cat-loving heart. I was so hoping Ginny could prowl around Hogwarts, and as LPO said, get Mrs. Norris.

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Gerald Costales - Jan 15, 2005 7:55 am (#637 of 2152)

I've been thinking that Ginny will become a Seer. Here's the reply Ginny makes to Harry when is thinking he'll never play Quidditch again at Hogwarts.

(Ginny) . . . "Anyway, once you’re back on the team - -"

. . . . . . Ginny, I’ve got a lifelong ban," (Harry)

. . . . . . "You’re banned as long as Umbridge is in the school," Ginny corrected him, "There’s a difference. Anyway, once you’re back, I think I’ll try out for Chaser. Angelina and Alicia are leaving next year and I prefer goal-scoring to Seeking anyway."

(page 575, OoP, American hardback edition)

Not much to base a belief for Ginny becoming a Seer. But when Harry talked to that Boa, in the Reptile House in Book 1, who would have predicted that it meant Harry was a Parseltongue.

It's those minor details that jump out at you when you reread the Books and drive you mad because you missed it the first time as a clue. ;-) GC

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Tomoé - Jan 15, 2005 1:21 pm (#638 of 2152)

Back in business
Sorry Weeny Owl, just pretend it's a fraud, the girl never attend the meeting and she all made this up. ^_~

Anyway, shouldn't Ginny be a bit young to be animagus? It took 3 solid years for the marauders to become animagi and they were at least two searching for info (Remus always catching up for the time he's tired or absent and Peter always catching up for his lack of "talent").

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Robert Dierken - Jan 15, 2005 4:20 pm (#639 of 2152)

Further thought about how Ginny travelled to Romania:

(1) Getting across the English Channel via train is not a problem. The current method is to run the train through the Channel Tunnel, but I think that the tunnel was not complete then. A train could, however, pass the channel because they used to carry the passenger cars across on specially built ferry boats.

(2) Buying the tickets would not present a problem. The Weasley's may have trouble with muggle money, but they could have bought tickets from a wizard who works as a travel agent, using wizard money. Such a wizard could either have gotten an "O" in muggle studies or have been a muggle-born, and might also sell tickets to muggles!

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Tomoé - Jan 15, 2005 4:32 pm (#640 of 2152)

Back in business
They still had the Ford Anglia, like Catherine pointed, they could have travelled in the muggle way (I have the feeling the Anglia don't use fuel ^_^).

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Weeny Owl - Jan 15, 2005 5:49 pm (#641 of 2152)

Sorry Weeny Owl, just pretend it's a fraud, the girl never attend the meeting and she all made this up. ^_~

Hehehe... you shouldn't tempt me, Tomoe.

Yes, it took a few years for them to become Animagi, but Ginny's a smart girl, and if she wanted to, I think she could... maybe not until the last book, but I won't totally rule it out.

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Choices - Jan 15, 2005 6:51 pm (#642 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Tomoe' - "It took 3 solid years for the marauders to become animagi and they were at least two searching for info (Remus always catching up for the time he's tired or absent...."

Maybe I misunderstand what you mean, but Remus never became an animagus - his transformation into a werewolf was the result of being bitten by a werewolf as a child, not the result of being an animagus.

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Amilia Smith - Jan 15, 2005 6:56 pm (#643 of 2152)

Right, but he may well have been in on the research it took for his friends to become animagi. At least, that's what I took Tomoe's statement to mean.

Mills.

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Choices - Jan 15, 2005 7:03 pm (#644 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
OK, that I agree with - I'm sure he did his part to help them since they were doing it for his benefit.

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Kelly Kapaoski - Jan 16, 2005 3:21 am (#645 of 2152)

for all we know Ginny could be studying to become an Animagi and hasn't told anyone about it; it isn't like she is with Ron, Harry and Hermione often enough to know what she is studying.

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Maria Dunlavey - Jan 19, 2005 3:57 pm (#646 of 2152)

Ginny can be catlike without actually becoming a cat animagus. I have a friend who will definitely never be an Animagus, seeing as she is a muggle, but is very catlike. She physically looks like a cat (her hair even feels sort of like a cat's), has catlike postures, sneezes like a cat (which is very cute), and has a tendency to claw people.

Somehow secretly studying to become an Animagus doesn't seem very Ginny-esque to me, although I can't pin down why. And I'm sure that becoming an Animagus is not the only way to have an affinity for cats. Heck, Mrs. Figg has an affinity for cats(/kneazles). She breeds them, doesn't she? I'm not meaning to suggest that Ginny will grow up to be a cat breeder, but. . .

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Catherine - Jan 19, 2005 5:02 pm (#647 of 2152)

Canon Seeker
Maria makes a point about traits not necessarily being a clue that Ginny will be an Anigmagus.

I certainly agree with Maria on this point, although I will say that I think Ginny is quite capable of deception and lying. She kept the secret of Riddle's diary nearly the whole school year, and she can lie without her mother detecting it (the dungbombs in OoP). She is even able to lie most convincingly to students about the Garrotting Gas during Harry's and Hermione's attempt to contact Sirius.

In my opinion, Ginny has shown the traits to be a good Occlumens.

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Choices - Jan 19, 2005 7:19 pm (#648 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Ginny has some great teachers - Fred and George. LOL She has been watching the master's of mischief at work and she has learned her lessons well. I don't think she is a student animagus anymore than Snape is a vampire - being cat-like and bat-like are just descriptive phrases. We get a better feeling for these characters when we can think of them as being similar to something familiar - like a cat and a bat. Snape dresses in black, his robes billow out behind him like wings when he walks and he loves to prowl around the castle at night - very bat-like. Ginny is warm and cuddly like a cat, but she can also be stealthy and sly. JKR has to use these comparisons to help us see the character better and it doesn't always mean the character necessarily is what they are described to be like.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 19, 2005 9:17 pm (#649 of 2152)

Good post Choices! I agree that Ginny is very catlike but that does not mean she will be an animagus. I think that tale is told. I bet JKR has something special planned for our Ginny. I believe it is significant she is the seventh child. LPO

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Choices - Jan 20, 2005 10:59 am (#650 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
LPO - Indeed, being the seventh child has a lot of portent. It will be fun to see what happens with Ginny. I definitely think she has a lot of potential.

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Ginny Weasley Empty Ginny Weasley (Post 651 to 700)

Post  Elanor Wed May 04, 2011 10:29 am

Wand Maker - Jan 20, 2005 6:23 pm (#651 of 2152)
Once Ginny got over her first year at Hogwarts and her crush on Harry, we have seen her character build. I think that she posesses much of her mother's inner strength. She is also headstrong, has been since as least as early as age six (when she took out her brothers' brooms) and has no compunction about doing so.

Her possession by Tom Riddle has given her first hand knowledge of the dark side and this will help her attain new heights fighting them. Even with her broken ankle, she did not want to admit defeat.

I wouldn't be surprised if she learns how to become an animagus within the next two years.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 20, 2005 7:33 pm (#652 of 2152)

I only had two older brothers to contend with growing up. I can't imagine having 6. She has to be tough, resourceful and intelligent. Being the "baby" and the only girl has a lot of advantages and disadvantages. I think anyone who underestimates her will learn the error of their ways fairly quickly. I agree Wand Maker she brings a special understanding to the table. LPO

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Tomoé - Jan 21, 2005 12:48 am (#653 of 2152)

Back in business
Amilia's interpretation is right, I expect Remus helped his friend to look for stuff in library. I somehow suspect you can't find the books next to Hogwarts: an History and if you ask Madam Pince "Where can I find the spells to become animagus?" she either won't tell you or said right in the restricted section.

Being alone, I don't expect Ginny get the information faster than the marauders or even as fast and it seems she waste a lot of time in her first year with Tom Riddle. I just don't see it.

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Mrs. Sirius - Jan 21, 2005 9:37 am (#654 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
The Maurder's story has been written, if not yet completely told. Ginny's story is going to be, in my opinion completely different. There are clues I think to her future in as early as PS/SS.

JK likes to make physical references to animals of her character's that are not necessarily indications that they are animagus. She has more than once described Snape as bat like. Yet she has clearly said in interviews that he is not animagus bat. Umbridge is liked often to a toad although there are no indications that she is a toad animagus. Uncle Vernon has been described also in terms of a raging, (was it?) a hippo? Ginny being cat like does not lead me to believe that she will be a cat animagus.

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Peskipinski - Jan 21, 2005 7:12 pm (#655 of 2152)

Crazy Genius
Mrs. Sirius has a good point. Animagus has been done, multiple times. It seems unlikely that JKR would use that again, especially using a same or related animal. Besides, that seems almost too obvious. The cat references could be much more toward personality clues than anything else. So what traits do cats have?

They're independent. They're smart (occasionally). They're proud, and they're quick... Seems pretty good so far, somebody help me out with more cat traits. Also, does anyone know any old stories or myths involving cats? JKR has obviously used mythology as a large reference.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 21, 2005 8:21 pm (#656 of 2152)

I think of cats in Egyptian mythology. Bastet was the cat Goddess. Medieval Europe saw cats as witches familiars. Cats were considered evil and destroyed. Hence with no cats to keep down the rodent population there were deadly plague outbreaks. Large cats are often associated with Goddesses. LPO

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Jak Frank - Jan 22, 2005 7:20 am (#657 of 2152)

Student
Ms. Rowling has also gone through somewhat great (okay, not GREAT but some) lengths to point out to the fans that Ginny is also the only girl Weasley born in quite a few generations (look at her official website).

This could tie in with the 7th child thing, though I believe that all the myths really point at the seventh SON of the seventh SON, but the fact of the matter is that the seventh son ended up being a daughter. This could make it go either way.

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Ydnam96 - Jan 22, 2005 9:58 am (#658 of 2152)

Do we know what Ginny's patronus is? I wouldn't be suprised if it was a cat of some sort.

I think JK just uses those comparissons to help us get a glimpse into Ginny's character. I wouldn't be suprised though, if later in life, Ginny did decide to become and animagus that she would be a cat, although I do not anticipate her doing that as a child.

On a side note, I think Ginny is rather like McGonagal. I would have loved to see Minerva as a child! I have a feeling that Ginny and Minerva have a lot in common.

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MzWhizz123 - Jan 22, 2005 3:39 pm (#659 of 2152)

I agree with you, Ydnam96, (is your name Mandy?). Perhaps Ginny will be the member of Harry's group that eventually becomes a teacher at Hogwarts.

Ginny's part in the saga has yet to be defined, IMHO. She is simply too unique to be a fixture.

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Jak Frank - Jan 22, 2005 5:44 pm (#660 of 2152)

Student
Ginny, Luna and Fred and George after the fifth book are the most COMPLETE characters in the series. Everyone else in the series, while intriguing, still seem incomplete or forced (though most to a very slight degree), which is to be expected in any fiction.

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Wand Maker - Jan 22, 2005 7:13 pm (#661 of 2152)

For some reason that I can't put my finger on, I see Ginny becoming a healer.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 22, 2005 9:16 pm (#662 of 2152)

Jak Frank I agree, Ginny is special being the seventh child. There are seven books in the series. JKR has pointed out that seven is a magical number. I think it is very significant she is a girl. Maybe a feminist twist on an old theme! LPO

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GryffEndora - Jan 23, 2005 10:38 am (#663 of 2152)

Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
As for Ginny becoming Prefect, I definitely think she will. This is not her choosing the Percy route over the Fred & George one it is about her desire to be like Bill! she want's to go to Hogwarts because Bill goes (CS), and she distrusts Snape in OoP because "Bill doesn't trust him either."

Many of us have commented on parallels between Lily and Ginny. Earlier on this thread was discussed Ginny owing Harry a life debt. Perhaps she will need to repay this debt by becoming Lily, giving her life to save Harry's.

Discuss.

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Ann - Jan 23, 2005 1:59 pm (#664 of 2152)

GryffEndora, I think that's a great point about the affinity between Ginny and Bill, the coolest Weasley. Ginny is pretty cool, too.

But I don't think she has a Life Debt to Harry--those seem to me to occur only between enemies (Snape's debt to James and Peter's to Harry). Do we know of any where the debtors wouldn't actually be reluctant to pay their debts? I think Ginny might well be willing to give her live to save Harry's without "owing" it to him.

There's been some discussion about Ginny's reaction to the veil in the DoM--she's the only one who is fascinated who hasn't lost someone. But has anyone mentioned that Harry has to pull her away from that time thing where the bird and the egg are in an endless loop? Any ideas what all that means? Why she should be fascinated by it?

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Wand Maker - Jan 23, 2005 5:52 pm (#665 of 2152)

Ann, I think you are on the right track about life debts.

In a strict sense, Harry did save Ginny's life. However, she never saw the action being performed. Also, as they were on the same side against Riddle, that might not be the same. In PS/SS, it could be said that Harry and Ron owe Hermione because of the Devil's snare.

I think that life debts among friends are not specifically tallied up. It is just part of the bonding process.

Among strangers, life debts often result in friendships. This often happens in the muggle world between rescuers and victims in perilous situations.

Ginny is becoming a powerful witch. She would definitely be someone you would want watching your back.

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Jak Frank - Jan 23, 2005 6:03 pm (#666 of 2152)

Student
I see Ginny becoming a Dumbledore figure in the future; someone that not everyone likes but all agree on the fact that they are one powerful person.

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Gerald Costales - Jan 24, 2005 7:00 am (#667 of 2152)

"Ginny is becoming a powerful witch. She would definitely be someone you would want watching your back." Wand Maker

I agree. Ginny may not be as smart as Hermione but Ginny is as brave, resourceful and persistent as Hermione. With Cho out of the picture, it will be interesting to see who Harry ends up with.

Either Ginny or Hermione will be a good match for Harry. (I'm leaning for Harry with Hermione but Ginny is an excellent match for Harry too.) ;-) GC

PS Ron doesn't deserve Hermione! Well, someone had to post it! ;-) GC

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Jak Frank - Jan 24, 2005 6:26 pm (#668 of 2152)

Student
Just getting Ginny's post count off the Number of the Beast.

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Bathilda - Jan 25, 2005 7:39 am (#669 of 2152)

SAHM (of two wee ones)
Hermione and Harry? no way. I'll discuss on the Hermione thread perhaps. (think Harry vs. Ron's reaction to her transformation at the Yule Ball) However, Harry and Ginny... I HOPE! However, for Rowling, it might be too perfect and too predictable. That is why I think that Ginny will end up biting it. After She and Harry are open about being in love, of course. (got to have that tragic angle) The perfect part would be that Harry would be an official member of the Weasley family. The family he never had. Not to mention the fact that Ginny has loved him since she met him.

As for Ginny not being as smart as Hermione...we can only assume that Hermione is still the smartest around. We've not heard anything of Ginny's marks. She definately seems to be "all Gryfindor" though...whereas Hermione was almost placed in Ravenclaw. (OoP she says that the sorting hat thought about putting her in Ravenclaw) I wonder if she asked to be put in Gryfindor, like Harry said "not slytherin"?!?!?!?!? She had said that she "read" that Gryfindor seemed by far the best. oooo.....I think I'll go to the Hermione thread with that. someone's probably already thought of that. It's hard to have an original thought around here!

Back to Ginny. She's brave and doesn't mess around. (in Oop) I think she's just great, and I know we haven't seen the last of her powers.

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Czarina II - Jan 25, 2005 3:13 pm (#670 of 2152)

Just a brief comparison of Ginny and Hermione:

Hermione is smart academically. That is her character trait and her purpose to the story.

Ginny is more skillful than Hermione, I think. She proves herself in OoP. All the book-smarts in the world still allowed Hermione to be knocked out the DoM battle early on. Ginny seems for adept to athleticism and to practical skill. That is not to say she is less intelligent than Hermione, nor the opposite. Both girls just have different purposes to serve the story.

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Choices - Jan 25, 2005 6:59 pm (#671 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
"Ginny is more skillful than Hermione" - I have to disagree....as Hagrid said, "There's not a spell our Hermione can't do!" POA is full of comments about Hermione being the "brightest witch of her age". No, I think Ginny is good, but Hermione is head and shoulders above her in skill level.

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Jak Frank - Jan 25, 2005 8:01 pm (#672 of 2152)

Student
Yes, but Hermoine has a much more Cornelius Fudge outlook being a witch whereas Ginny is closer to Dumbledore. Which one would you rather have on your side?

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 25, 2005 9:08 pm (#673 of 2152)

I would say Hermione is more like McGonagall than Fudge. Ginny is bright and talented. I'm not sure I see the comparison with Dumbledore. LPO

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Choices - Jan 26, 2005 10:35 am (#674 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
In a fight, I'll take Hermione at my side. I agree Hermione is much more like McGonagall. Ginny is very independant and was very naive at the beginning. I think she is becoming much more mature and she is definitely a talented witch, but just not on Hermione's level. I don't see any likeness to Dumbledore though. I think Bill is her hero.

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mollis - Jan 26, 2005 10:56 am (#675 of 2152)

For me, it would depend on the type of fight. A pre-planned strategic attack and Hermione's your girl. But I feel like Ginny has the ability to improvise and adapt much better than Hermione. Look at the way she nearly got herself and Harry killed with the Centaurs. When she has time to plan things out, she does great, but she makes mistakes when she has to act too quickly.

Ginny, on the other hand, seems to be able to adjust to the given situation quickly and appropriately. This may something she has learned from Fred and George that will come in very handy in the future.

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Choices - Jan 26, 2005 11:05 am (#676 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Mollis - I can go along with that. Ginny has had practice dealing with all her brothers - she can adapt and change on the spur of the moment depending on what they throw at her, but Hermione, being an only child, is not that flexible. She likes to have a strategy or plan of action and isn't as good at playing things by ear.

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Ann - Jan 26, 2005 2:45 pm (#677 of 2152)

I think both Ginny and Hermione are great. It's true that Hermione said the wrong thing with the centaurs, but she did come up with the plan that prevented Umbridge from Crucio-ing Harry and got rid of Umbridge. I thought her crying and pretending to give in were pretty good spur of the moment plans. And after all Ginny helped work things out so that Harry could see Sirius in Umbridge's fire the first time--that is longer term strategic. So I think they're both good at both. Hermione would be better than Ginny if one needed historical knowledge and skill at complicated spells, perhaps; I'd go with Ginny for more outside-the-box strategy and sheer guts. Together, they'd be really had to beat.

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Bathilda - Jan 26, 2005 2:50 pm (#678 of 2152)

SAHM (of two wee ones)
We have to remember too, that Ginny has lived her whole life in the Wizarding world. She is just going to know some things inately that Hermione wouldn't. Not only that, but she has SIX older brothers for Heaven's sake. Tough as nails--that's all I can say. Gred and Forge are her kin. Ginny ROCKS!

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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 26, 2005 3:27 pm (#679 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Why don't we just say that they complement each other very well. I wouldn't want to have to choose one over the other and I think it would be very hard for Harry also.

Mikie

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Choices - Jan 26, 2005 6:28 pm (#680 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Well put, Mickey - well put!! :-)
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 26, 2005 7:35 pm (#681 of 2152)

Mikie I agree. They do compliment each other well. I am looking forward to Ginny's continued character development. I was very impressed in OoP. She became one of my favorites. LPO

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Morgan Champion - Feb 4, 2005 12:19 am (#682 of 2152)

Has this thread died? I wish to state that I'm a Harry/Ginny 'shipper. (There,that should do it).

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Ydnam96 - Feb 4, 2005 1:11 am (#683 of 2152)

Uh-Oh Morgan, you better be careful. Shipping outside the 'Ship thread. These discussions can be really 'intense' from time to time. I think the mods prefer we leave those discussions on that thread so that only people are mentally prepared for the intense-ness of the discussions Smile

Mostly I think it's cause shippers are very devoted to their particular ship and they feel a great need to defend it!

Ginny, which I suspect is short for Ginerva doesn't seem to go along the lines of the royal names that the other members of her family have: Arthur, Percival, William, Charles, Ronald (is that a royal name?), Fredrick.

Looking up Ginerva online I found this website (parenthood.com) that says it has a Celtic background and means white as foam. Then from mybirthcare.com: "Numerology:Expression Number 4: People with this name tend to be orderly and dedicated to building their lives on a solid foundation of order and service. They value truth, justice, and discipline, and may be quick-tempered with those who do not. Their practical nature makes them good at managing and saving money, and at building things in the material world. Because of their focus on order and practicality they may seem overly cautious and conservative at times."

I can see the white as foam thing. She was, at first, the sacrificial lamb type character. Tom took her and manipulated her, thus changing her from that image. I'm not sure if I agree with the numerology thing. I see her as quick tempered but not cautious and conservative.

There is a character named Ginerva in a book by Brontte. Ginerva in this book is (I guess, as I haven't read it but did some quick searches on google) is pretty self absorbed and flighty. Not at all what I feel like Ginny is these books.

The name Ginny, from bubbaboo.com, is of English origins and means from Virginia. Hah, not too explanitory there. BUt if you look up Virginia it stands for purity and and or maiden (found on several sites). I'm wonder just where Jo is going with this?

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Archangel - Feb 4, 2005 1:51 am (#684 of 2152)

Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Isn't Ginerva a derivative of Guinevere? I wonder what Molly's proper name though...

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Weeny Owl - Feb 4, 2005 2:41 am (#685 of 2152)

It's actually Ginevra - not Ginerva.

JKR has stated that Ginny's name is NOT Virginia, so she probably isn't too concerned with what the name Virginia means.

Ginevra is a form of Guinevere, though, so that might fit in with British royalty.

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dizzy lizzy - Feb 4, 2005 2:44 am (#686 of 2152)

There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
Morgan; I second Ydnam comments about the threads. But I also hear what you are saying about the apparent slowness of the thread (and possibly others). My personal take on it all is we are no longer in a rush to run headlong into all the idiosyncrasies of HP. Probably because it's the calm before the storm so to speak.

I know I have exhausted all my ideas and theories and now I'm just marking time until HBP comes out. Occasionally some one else comes up with some good idea and things get moving again. But probably nowhere near as hectic as it will be come July 16th or thereabouts.

Welcome to the forum

Lizzy

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Archangel - Feb 4, 2005 3:23 am (#687 of 2152)

Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Edited by Feb 4, 2005 2:24 am
Yep, I meant Ginevra... mistyped the r and v. Brain's too fast for fingers. Sorry 'bout that.

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The giant squid - Feb 4, 2005 5:56 am (#688 of 2152)

Ginevra is a form of Guinevere, though

And Guinevere is a variant of Jennifer (or the other way 'round) so those wishing to look up names can check that one as well.

Don't worry too much about he misspelling, Archangel (and Ydnam). Folks have been doing that almost from teh second JKR revealed Ginny's full name.

--Mike

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MickeyCee3948 - Feb 4, 2005 12:21 pm (#689 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Weeny Owl - I also believe that Ginny's proper name would be Guinevere and that works in fine with the King Arthur ties that some have referenced in regard to the books. It also ties in nicely with the other Weasley names.

Mikie

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Ydnam96 - Feb 4, 2005 10:53 pm (#690 of 2152)

You know I never caught that it was Ginevra and not Ginerva! Thanks guys for pointing that out, it definetly changes things Smile

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mjakubowicz - Feb 8, 2005 8:17 am (#691 of 2152)

Male, 32, NYCity
There is good name background info at behindthename.com, supporting the link between Ginevra and Guinevere. Although I don’t know if I’m ready to ‘read into’ the literal meaning of the name so much just yet. To me it just seems to fit with Billy and Charlie and Percy and Georgie and Freddie and Ronnie and the whole red hair and freckles theme. (Also rhymes with Lilly, to go with Potter, perhaps?) Personal cheerleading aside, it seems all to clear to me that Ginny is coming into her own as of OP and her upbringing and experience are well suited to a large role. I’ll be curious to see what, if any, focus is put on Ginny regarding her OWLs and career choices in her fifth year. But I’m convinced that she will have a very exciting and life-altering sixth year.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Feb 8, 2005 5:03 pm (#692 of 2152)

mjakubowicz lets hope Ginny's sixth year is life-altering and not life ending! LPO

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Jak Frank - Feb 8, 2005 8:39 pm (#693 of 2152)

Student
Unless she is the one doing the ending and not being ended.

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mjakubowicz - Feb 9, 2005 1:39 pm (#694 of 2152)

Male, 32, NYCity
Not too worried. She's one of the younger ones, and its a great sin to slay a foal as the centaurs say Wink

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Feb 18, 2005 5:01 pm (#695 of 2152)

I like your thinking mjakubowicz, I hope JKR does to. LPO

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TomProffitt - Feb 18, 2005 9:44 pm (#696 of 2152)

Bullheaded empiricist
The very first violent act we learn about in the series is Voldemort attempting infanticide.

No one is safe from death in this series.

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GryffEndora - Feb 19, 2005 12:17 pm (#697 of 2152)

Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I have been working my way through the 1300 posts on the 'Chambers' Clues & Book Six thread and found a post that gave me some thoughts about our Miss Weasley. Aeoliano quotes a source in post # 207 that says there is a rivalry between the weasel and the Basilisk. That the weasel's venom is fatal to the Basilisk.

I wonder if Lucius wanted to give the diary specifically to a Weasley and chose Ginny because she is the 1st girl in several generations & possibly a portent of great power. Ginny killed the school roosters whose crow is fatal to the basilisk. Perhaps by making Ginny the vessel used to control the basilisk, Malfoy was eliminating another threat to the basilisk. Is it possible Malfoy is leery of the potential power she could wield and therefore wanted her out of the picture as well? Perhaps his open animosity toward the Weasley family is an attempt to divert attention from that fact that he fears them?

What do you think?

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Ydnam96 - Feb 19, 2005 1:16 pm (#698 of 2152)

I don't know, I think she was just the most vulnerable at the time. I don't doubt Ginny's abilities, and I think there may be some significance to her being the only girl in generations...but I think that she was just an easy target

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Feb 19, 2005 5:55 pm (#699 of 2152)

I think Lucius targeted the Weasleys. He was threatened by Arthur's raids. I do not know if it had anything to do with Ginny specifically, other than he saw the opportunity. It backfired as far as getting Dumbledore permanently removed from Hogwarts. LPO
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TomProffitt - Feb 19, 2005 9:29 pm (#700 of 2152)

Bullheaded empiricist
It's never been stated explicitly in Canon, but I've always had the impression that Arthur and Lucius have the same type of relationship as Snape and the Marauders. I assume they went to school together. The diary was not an attack on Ginny but an attack on Arthur.

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Choices - Feb 20, 2005 9:43 am (#701 of 2152)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I'm not positive, but I think we figured that Lucius was about 42 and Arthur is about 50 - so that would not put them in school together. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here. I don't think the diary was created to hurt Arthur, but perhaps Ginny was chosen for more reasons that one and hurting Arthur was icing on the cake.

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Tomoé - Feb 22, 2005 9:53 pm (#702 of 2152)

Back in business
If Arthur is as old as Lucius, he would have been 17 when Bill was born, 7 months before he graduate from Hogwarts. Doesn't make sense to me.

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Jak Frank - Feb 27, 2005 12:08 am (#703 of 2152)

Student
It would if you saw my old high school.

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Choices - Feb 27, 2005 10:38 am (#704 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
But, this didn't happen at your old high school Jak, this is happening in JKR's magical wizarding world. Things there are pretty old fashioned and much more moral than our present Muggle society. Tomoe' is right....it doesn't make sense.

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wwtMask - Mar 1, 2005 7:32 am (#705 of 2152)

Still, it's plausible, right? Lucius graduated from Hogwarts (assuming he stayed for 7th year) in 1971, so he would have started in 1964. Bill was born in 1970. We don't know exactly how old he is, but Arthur may well have been a year or two out of Hogwarts before Bill was born. If that's true, Lucius could have been at school with Arthur.

By the way, how did you guys come up with 50 for Arthur's age?

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Dumbledore - Mar 1, 2005 8:47 am (#706 of 2152)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Whether or not Lucius and Arthur went to school together, I simply think that the hatred between Lucius and the Weasleys stems from the fact that the Weasleys were known to stand for everything Malfoys are known to hate. For example, they don't value their pure-blood status as making them better than others, and the parents were members in the original Order of the Phoenix. The families are like ebony and ivory, and with Lucius being as malicious as he is known to be it seems logical that he would give the diary to what appears to be the most apparently vulnerable person (in his eyes), belonging to the family he morally detests.

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Choices - Mar 1, 2005 10:41 am (#707 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
The Lexicon lists Bill's birth year as 1971 - not that it makes much difference - except to Bill. LOL

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Tomoé - Mar 1, 2005 1:42 pm (#708 of 2152)

Back in business
There's a mistake, Bill is born in 1970. Let me proove it.

- We know the cut off date is September 1st
- We know Bill is two years older than Charlie, who is three years older than Percy
- Charlie is three school is appart from Percy, for he graduated before Ron came.

Name 1st year August 11th year of birth

Ginny 92/93 August 11th 93-12=1981
Ron 91/92 Mars 1st 92-12=1980
- 90/91 - -
F&G 89/90 April 1st 90-12=1978
- 88/89 - -
Percy 87/88 August 22th 88-12=1976
- 86/87 - -
- 85/86 - -
Charlie 84/85 December 12th 84-12=1972
- 83/84 - -
Bill 82/83 November 12th 82-12=1970

The mistake likely came from substracting three years, then two years from Percy's birth year (1976-3-2=1971) or from Harry/Ron birth year (1980-2-2-3-2=1971). But, Ron and Percy are born between January and August, while Bill and Charlie are born between September and December. Edit : or maybe it come from the March 4th 2004 chat when Jo stated Bill was two years older than Charlie, who was two years older than Percy.

Edit: I looked on Bill's page, it says he's born in 1970. Is there other pages where the 1971 was not corrected?

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The giant squid - Mar 2, 2005 12:32 am (#709 of 2152)

Quite fascinating, really, but what does this have to do with Ginny again?

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wwtMask - Mar 2, 2005 6:44 am (#710 of 2152)

We're somehow trying to connect Arthur and Lucius by saying that Lucius was motivated to give Ginny the diary by a grudge against Arthur that he formed when they were in school. The ages of the Weasley children are to show that it's plausible that Arthur and Lucius attended Hogwarts at the same time.

Personally, I think that may be possible, but Lucius seems far too pragmatic to waste such a good plan on such a silly reason.

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Catherine - Mar 2, 2005 7:45 am (#711 of 2152)

Canon Seeker
I think Lucious's motivation to give Ginny the diary was to discredit Arthur and thus derail Arthur's Muggle Protection Act, versus having a long-ago grudge.

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Choices - Mar 2, 2005 10:33 am (#712 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I do too Catherine - even if they were together at school, I don't think an upper classman like Arthur would have been, would have had much to do with a lower classman like Lucius. They were in different houses, there were O.W.L.'s and N.E.W.T.'s to worry about and Arthur and Molly were an item, so I think Arthur would have been too busy to have taken much notice of Lucius. Arthur's raids were causing Lucius problems and inconvenience, so he gave Ginny the diary as payback to Arthur for causing him trouble.

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Ponine - Mar 2, 2005 11:48 am (#713 of 2152)

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
You don't think he just saw it a an opportunity to get the book in Harry's vincinity?

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wwtMask - Mar 2, 2005 2:15 pm (#714 of 2152)

I think his primary concerns were discrediting Arthur and, if it were remotely possible, having a version of Voldemort that he would be able to influence or control. Not knowing the prophecy and probably believing that a 12 year old is of little consequence, the fact that Ginny was close to Harry probably only registered as a minor side benefit.

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Choices - Mar 2, 2005 7:28 pm (#715 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think Lucius probably had a lot of agendas to settle and that diary helped him accomplish more that one of them.

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Ydnam96 - Mar 2, 2005 11:40 pm (#716 of 2152)

I think that getting the book to Hogwarts was the primary objective, but for it to work the person had to be vulnerable enough to "fall" for a journal that wrote back, etc. So naturally it needed to go to a younger, or more naive if you will, student. Ginny, being the daughter of someone Lucius hates is a happy benefit for him. It works to settle his grudge and get the diary into the school with someone who was appropriate for it's use.

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frogface - Mar 24, 2005 2:21 am (#717 of 2152)

I don't think they were at school together, seeing as Molly reminiceses about Ogg in GoF, who was game keeper before Hagrid, and I can't remember where it is now but there is also a reference to Arthur being whipped by the caretaker before Filch. I don't think theres any solid evidence to suggest this but I get the impression both Hagrid and Filch have been working at Hogwarts for a lot longer than 20 or so years. Plus I think it would be a bit repetitive if Arthur and Lucius were old school rivals anyway, we've already seen that with the marauders generation and a repeat of it seems to be emerging with Harry and Draco. I think JKR is a bit more original than that.

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S.E. Jones - Mar 24, 2005 10:15 pm (#718 of 2152)

Let it snow!
I think it is very likely that Arthur and Lucius were old school mates; it provides, not repitition, but nice circular story. As to Hagrid, he was probably an apprentice to Ogg before he was gamekeeper. I say that because of what Riddle says in the Chamber. "[Dumbledore] persuaded Dippet to keep Hagrid and train him as gamekeeper." I think that the wizarding world probably still employs apprenticeships. And Filch probably didn't come to Hogwarts til shortly after Molly and Arthur left as there was a different caretaker when they were there but Filch was there in the Marauders' seventh year (the year he confiscated the map). Okay, I'm done ranting now.

Anyway, I think Lucius's primary objective for giving it to Ginny was to damage Arthur's credibility in the wizarding world. As Dumbledore put it, "Imagine the effect on Arthur Weasley and his Muggle Protection Act, if his own daughter was discovered attacking and killing Muggle-borns...." Poor Ginny was just the vehicle Lucius needed to hurt a Arthur. You know, I'm rather hopeful that Ginny, or maybe Ron, will be able to get some retribution for that.....

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Puck - Mar 25, 2005 6:36 am (#719 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
Was Ginny (or the other Weasleys) told where the book had come from? Lucius, I believe, showed up after they had left. The conversation was between Malfoy, Harry, and DD. I don't think DD would have said anything. He had no real proof, and tensions between the two families are high enough already. Harry may have mentioned something to Ron, but this isn't canon. Ginny mentions being pocessed by Voldemort, but doesn't mention Malfoys hand it.

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Ydnam96 - Mar 25, 2005 8:56 am (#720 of 2152)

You know I'm not sure that we are told if the Weasley's know that the diary came from Lucius. It wouldn't be hard to deduce that from what happened at Flourish and Blotts. Or maybe Harry told them after the fact, but I don't think it's actually talked about in the books. I could be wrong.

But, I think they have gotten some retribution...I mean Lucius is in jail now because of them Smile

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Ponine - Mar 30, 2005 6:19 pm (#721 of 2152)

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Am I becoming wayy to obsessive, or is it peculiar that in all of these thousands of pages, there is only ONE person who 'swears', once. Our girl Ginny. Coincidence?

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Ff3girl - Mar 30, 2005 7:39 pm (#722 of 2152)

Actually, Harry swears at the end of OOTP too. "She doesn't love me, she doesn't give a (expletive)..."

And then there's the comment Draco makes in PS about Draco falling on his fat *cough cough*...

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Steve Newton - Mar 30, 2005 7:43 pm (#723 of 2152)

Librarian
Isn't Vernon's 'effing' considered to be swearing?

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Ff3girl - Mar 30, 2005 7:44 pm (#724 of 2152)

Hehe... never thought of it that way before.

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Choices - Mar 30, 2005 7:47 pm (#725 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Doesn't Ron say "bloody h***" a time or two.....or is that just in the movie in the polyjuice scene and on the train in POA?

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mooncalf - Apr 1, 2005 12:48 pm (#726 of 2152)

I think that's all movie contamination. If I remember correctly, the word 'bloody' is not used in the books at all. I always had the impression that it was just an American script writer's way of making things sound more British.

And shouldn't we consider 'mudblood' an expletive? Malfoy uses that on repeatedly.

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Ponine - Apr 1, 2005 5:36 pm (#727 of 2152)

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
I stand so corrected **blushing** Harry too does say 'damn' at on point in Dumbledore's office, as has been pointed out already. If my memory serves me right, Ron has a couple of "What the - " sprinkled in for dramatic purposes, other than that, Rowling managed to keep the books, in my opinion, pretty authentic without cussing - no small feat.

And in WW, yeah, mudblood is probably one of the most derogatory terms to use.

Aside from everything I just wrote, though, I still, in a small way, think it is interesting that Ginny is the only other person than Harry to use such language. And while Harry has just returned from MoM and witnessed Sirius' death, Ginny cusses in the library over chocolate. IMHO, it indicates that she has some Oomph and that we really haven't seen nothin' yet.

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Choices - Apr 1, 2005 6:12 pm (#728 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Growing up with all those brothers, I'm not surprised that Ginny lets out a curse word now and then. LOL

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Puck - Apr 1, 2005 6:13 pm (#729 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
I think the fact fact that she could look Molly straight in the eye, lie about the dung bombs, AND get away with it shows "Oomph". That scene shocked me, as I had seen Ginny as sweet and shy. Suddenly she's outspoken and full of mischief. Can't wait to see what she does next!

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S.E. Jones - Apr 2, 2005 12:15 pm (#730 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Ponine: If my memory serves me right, Ron has a couple of "What the - " sprinkled in for dramatic purposes, other than that, Rowling managed to keep the books, in my opinion, pretty authentic without cussing - no small feat.

Actually, Ron does a fair bit of cussing, though you never actually hear what he says. For instance, Ron called Professor McGonagall a lot of names that greatly annoyed Hermione or then Ron called Snape something that made Hermione yell, "RON!".... I like that JKR leaves it up to your imagination.

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Mrs Brisbee - Apr 2, 2005 1:12 pm (#731 of 2152)

I think the fact fact that she could look Molly straight in the eye, lie about the dung bombs, AND get away with it shows "Oomph". That scene shocked me, as I had seen Ginny as sweet and shy. Suddenly she's outspoken and full of mischief. Can't wait to see what she does next! --Puck

Yeah, I feel exactly the same way. Before OotP, I found Ginny to be a bit annoying, since it seemed to me Rowling was tagging a minor character with virtually no personality for an eventual romance with Harry. I was pleasantly surprised to have her turn out to be not at all what I expected, and I'm hoping she will have a large role in books 6 and 7.

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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 2, 2005 1:44 pm (#732 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
With 6 brothers I suspect that Ginny has had 12 years of experience in how to avoid the truth, beat around the bush and make up truthful sounding stories.

She may have been shy in COS but that did not last long and is long gone. She is still very sweet as far as I am concerned. And I love the way her character has developed.

Mikie

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Choices - Apr 3, 2005 11:32 am (#733 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Ginny makes the statement in book 5 that you don't grow up with Fred and George without learning something about breaking rules. LOL I think that pretty well says it all about Ginny and her education in mischief. She learned from the best!

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Jak Frank - Apr 7, 2005 11:29 pm (#734 of 2152)

Student
Words like 'damn' and 'hell' are only "curse"--God, what a stupid adjactive--words in most parts of America and not, from what I have seen, in the UK (except that they are looked down upon). Because I realize quite a few people posting here are children or little more than children, I'll not say other words that are considered worse, but are *not* looked down upon in certain parts of America. Indeed, in Houston any kid who says 'damn!' or 'hell' are immediately punished by most parents, and "severely". However, most parents wouldn't think twice if their child said a certain five letter word that starts with a 'b' and usually comes after: "Son of a...!" Then, it is reversed here in New Mexico and in Colorado, while neither are in L.A. but both are in Beverly Hills, which is right outside L.A. (Yes, that sentence does make sense.)

Maybe it is because I am an "older" reader with no children of my own, but I have started to feel that I am outgrowing these books in maturity. Not that I am not anxiously looking forward to the next book, but even Douglas Adams--if you don't know who that is, then something is very wrong with you--uses the 'F' word at least once that I know of. Nor am I saying that "curse" words *should* be used, or that it is my only reason for stating my first sentence in this paragraph, but just a statement. Plus, Rowling knows that children (perhaps Pre-teen? I don't keep up with children's literature) are reading this, and if she doesn't consider certain words too bad for these kids, then you *should* know that things are simply different in her part of the word rather than thinking she "cursed"--gasp!--in one of her books.

Back to Ginny... Now that I think about it, this arguement is more that GINNY said those words and I went off on a tangent there, but I won't erase it because what's the point?

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Essidji - Apr 8, 2005 6:33 am (#735 of 2152)

Jak, Then, it is reversed here in New Mexico and in Colorado, while neither are in L.A. but both are in Beverly Hills, which is right outside L.A. (Yes, that sentence does make sense.) Well, I'm sorry, it must be too subtle for my level in English, but I think I missed the point.

You are right about the way people give an importance or not to "curse" words, in depends on the place you live in. For example, then Ron called Snape something that made Hermione yell, "RON!".... hasn't even been translated in the French version. And thinking about it, the translation would be very awkward indeed.

That reminds me of a discussion we had with a friend of mine who is British : some things or words they consider "rude" are rather unsignificant to us. Not everything, of course, they are some things we agree on! I suppose it's the same in very conservative parts of the US.

Now, does Ginny say really rude words? I'd say yes, undoubtfully, but in private, like all of us! And I daresay it relieves, sometimes!

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Winky Woo - Apr 8, 2005 7:24 am (#736 of 2152)

My favourite place in the world, the English Lake District
Its true we shouldn't always read too much into what we consider bad language, Mr Winky is Dutch but lived in Ireland for 5 years before he moved to England to live with me. Two very close English speaking countries, or so you may think! Some of the things he would come out with would make me wince or blush! Yet he really couldn't see the harm in it, as they were phrases he had picked up from every day conversation in Ireland.

I think that JKR has tried to get the balance right without putting in anything too strong, she leaves it up to us and our imaginations. She wants her world to be realistic and like it or not teenagers use bad language, regardless of how "nice" they are. (And occasionally some of us who are not teenagers, find ourselves with a limited vocabulary and resort to it Smile)

So I have to agree Ginny in all probability does swear!

Edit: We call them "Swear words" in England

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Choices - Apr 8, 2005 9:19 am (#737 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I personally respect JKR for not putting too much emphasis on the swear words. We get the idea without having to hear them and I like using my imagination rather than having them spelled out. She has kept the swear words to the "milder" ones and for that I am glad. It makes me so furious to watch a good movie and have the movie-makers throw in some swear words thinking it will somehow make the movie better. If any movie-makers are reading this..... It doesn't add a thing.....it just makes it embarrassing for me if I am watching with my granddaughter. The movie would be just as good, if not better, without them. Now I am aware that there are situations in movies where they are appropriate, and I don't mind that as long as it's not excessive, but I hate when it just seems they put them in for shock value or when it's every other word. One example comes to mind - the movie E.T. - that was basically a kids movie and there was a phrase used in there that was so totally inappropriate and needless - it was supposed to be funny, but something else would have worked just as well to produce a laugh and would not have been so gross.

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Eponine - Apr 8, 2005 10:08 am (#738 of 2152)

I completely agree, Choices. Ginny's use of a milder swear word was not out of place in the book. If characters started using words that are normally beeped out on network television (in the US at any rate) or written like this - #&*!@ - then I would feel it wasn't keeping true to the tone of the books.

Um...Ginny...does anyone think her position as the first Weasley female in many generations has any significance?

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Choices - Apr 8, 2005 10:31 am (#739 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I've thought about that Eponine, but I have not picked up on any hints that there is any significance to her being the first girl in a long line of boys.

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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 8, 2005 1:12 pm (#740 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I would like to know though if Mr or Mrs Weasley were the seventh child in either of their families.

Mikie

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Puck - Apr 8, 2005 5:40 pm (#741 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
I think being the only girl as well as the youngest probably contributes to her family being extra protective of her. Ron is quite put out at the idea of her having a boyfriend. I have a feeling she likely used her position growing up to get her way as much as possible.

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S.E. Jones - Apr 8, 2005 6:43 pm (#742 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Well, it might have significance in terms of family history and their position. In many ancient, and more modern, cultures daughters were how you made your connections. Think of Pride and Prejudice: the rich Mr. Darcy hesitates to marry the poorer Ms. Bennet because her family doesn't have much in the way of money or social connections (i.e. she's not related to anyone of importance). Like wise, there not being any young Ms. Weasleys for many generations, the Weasleys couldn't make any "significant" marriages that would bring in new social circles and new money. Those social connections are often what make you "nobles", you marry into their family and they marry into yours. When the marriage connections only go one way, as in the case of the Weasleys, that isolates a family. Also, marriage through daughters can bring new money into a family by either giving her family a claim to her husband's inheritance, via her children, or in the form of dowries.

Also, there are really good things about having nothing but sons for generations. In most cultures, having all sons is a sign of being blessed or fate looking favorably on you. Also, if there are any titles or there is some some important ancestor, you have a clear line of descent.

I hope that made sense....

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Patchwork Girl - Apr 8, 2005 11:13 pm (#743 of 2152)

where's Tik Tok?
So, we all know Arthur is one of three brothers. It's stated in the same paragraph as the Ginny info. Does this info have anything to do with discerning the significance of Ginny as the only girl? I can't find any myth or legend or story about the only daughter born to one of three brothers. Anyone else?

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Maollelujah - Apr 10, 2005 4:57 pm (#744 of 2152)

Like wise, there not being any young Ms. Weasleys for many generations, the Weasleys couldn't make any "significant" marriages that would bring in new social circles and new money.

But with young men born into the family, the chance to make 'significant' marriages would be the same. Also the lack of Ms. Weasleys would help, because they wouldn't have to pay dowries for their daughters to get married. Because the dowry goes with the bride to her new family.

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Choices - Apr 10, 2005 5:05 pm (#745 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Dowry???? Maybe wizards don't do dowries, and besides, this is 1990 something, and women aren't bartered like cattle anymore. At least not in most places.....like jolly Ol' England.

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S.E. Jones - Apr 10, 2005 10:54 pm (#746 of 2152)

Let it snow!
--But with young men born into the family, the chance to make 'significant' marriages would be the same.--

Not really. Traditionally, a woman marries into the man's family and, thus, ties her family to his. A man's family is married into and so the tie isn't really seen as going both ways. Of course Choices is right; I'm making an assumption about how things would have gone in the Weasley family's past, not their present.

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Miriam Huber - Apr 17, 2005 11:07 am (#747 of 2152)

If my memory is better as poor Neville´s, the information of Ginny being the only female Weasley for a long time is not from the books, but from JKR´s website. If I am correct, I would conclude that it will not be significant, because, naturally, JKR´s puts everything that is important to the story in the books.

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frogface - Apr 17, 2005 11:10 am (#748 of 2152)

Unless its going to be mentioned in either book six of seven.

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Gerald Costales - Apr 17, 2005 12:46 pm (#749 of 2152)

I think Ginny is a Seer. Ginny is the seventh child. I believe the myth is the seventh child of a seventh child but being the only female Weasley in generations (Could it be 7 generations?) may mean something.

I believe Ginny and all the students who were at the MoM will be more important in Book 6. (Of course "Mrs. Ginny Potter" does sound right. But, so does "Mrs. Hermione Potter". Only time will tell.) ;-) GC

PS "Mrs. Cho Weasley"?!?!? Hey, Ron does like older women. Remember Fleur!!! ;-) GC

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Norbert not a common welsh green - Apr 17, 2005 1:58 pm (#750 of 2152)

Evrey thing sounds "right" when you think about it for a while.

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Czarina II - Apr 18, 2005 5:52 am (#751 of 2152)
I believe that Ginny being the only female Weasley in generations is important in the sense that JKR told us about it. If it were not significant, why mention it? (Other than to give us something to stew over until the next book was released, of course.) However, I do not think this fact about Ginny necessarily means that she has any special powers such as being a Seer. I think Ginny's special status is an indication that she has a purpose in the story. She has a bit of a destiny, if she chooses to act on it. I think she will greatly factor into HbP and Bk7. As Harry's love interest? Perhaps. As one of the better DA fighters? Undoubtedly. As a someone who can advise Harry about Voldemort? Most likely. Any more important than Ron or Hermione? We'll see.

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Mrs. Sirius - Apr 18, 2005 10:13 pm (#752 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
JKR told us that Lily and Petunia's last name is Evans, before OoTP was released. That was in an interview I believe. That wasn't canon. But it was significant and we needed to have that information before reading OoTP.

Likewise she has told us that Ginny is not short for Virginia as many assumed but Ginevra (sp). The Weasley's named their only daughter Ginerva. If you look up history on the name Ginerva that seems to be significant.

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Czarina II - Apr 19, 2005 6:16 am (#753 of 2152)

It is "Ginevra" (like "Guinevera"), not "Ginerva".

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Gerald Costales - May 4, 2005 7:33 pm (#754 of 2152)

If Ginny becomes a Chaser and with Ron and Harry returning to their old positions Goalie and Seeker. Can we expect to see new faces on the old Quidditch pitch. How about the Creeveys? And what other new players could appear on the other House teams?

There is more to Ginny than being a sidekick or a part of the Sextet. Ginny proved to be an excellent Quidditch player like Harry. Will Ginny be up to some high jinx now that Fred and George are gone? Could Ginny and Luna be the next Fred and George? hehe ;-) GC

PS Ginny may become more important in the DA. ;-) GC

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Snuffles - May 7, 2005 1:49 pm (#755 of 2152)

Olivia
Sorry if this has been posted. While re reading COS, in the chapter "The Heir Of Slytherin", when Tom Riddle is talking to Harry about Ginny, he explains that he has told her(Ginny)some secrets about himself. I know this bit has been discussed before about whether Ginny will be able to tell Harry anything about LV to help in the final battle, but I've never noticed the fact that Tom says he was able to put some of his soul into her.

Does this mean that at some point Ginny will start feeling things when LV does? what kind of way will she be connected? any thoughts anyone?

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Puck - May 7, 2005 7:26 pm (#756 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
I'm not sure, Snuffles. Afterall, Ginny's connection was with a former self, not LV in his current form. I think Harry feeling things will be unique. I wonder if the secrets he told her were real, or just things he made up to win her trust.

It is interesting that she comments "Lucky you" or some such statement when Harry says in OotP that he forgot she had been pocessed. it is obviously still on her mind quite a bit, something difficult for her to get over. She may be out for her own vengence at some point.

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Gerald Costales - May 8, 2005 5:15 am (#757 of 2152)

.” . . After all, Ginny's connection was with a former self, not LV in his current form.” Puck

Since the Series is centered on Harry, people like Ginny don't get the attention they could have. Ginny's connection to Tom Riddle will possibly be revealed in Book 6. Especially if that connection helps Harry to defeat Voldermort.

I make a distinction between Tom Riddle and Lord Voldermort. Tom received the “Yew Wand” not Voldermort. And Tom Riddle possessed Ginny not Voldermort.

If Ginny has secrets than a secret from Tom Riddle and the soul of Tom Riddle will lead to the defeat of Voldermort. The Tom Riddle to Voldermort process is like a caterpillar to butterfly process. That is to say a Metamorphosis. If Ginny does have important information for Harry then if make sense that Ginny is now part of a bigger “Inner Circle”.

That being said, the “Inner Circle” - Harry, Ron, Hermione, and now Ginny, Neville, and Luna - I believe will change. I feel that Luna will be replaced by Cho. And not because of Romantic reasons, I don’t see Luna being strong and dependable. Cho’s connection to Cedric is also another area that has not been explored or resolved in Book 5. Also Cho is better than Luna in DADA. Remember, Cho and Hermione were the only ones besides Harry to master the Patronus Charm. ;-) GC

PS Of course the "Inner Circle" could just grow to include Cho and possibly Dean Thomas since Dean was being paired with Ginny at the end of Book 5. Too many questions and no Book 6 to help answer them. ;-) GC

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Choices - May 8, 2005 10:02 am (#758 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Gerald - "I make a distinction between Tom Riddle and Lord Voldermort. Tom received the “Yew Wand” not Voldermort. And Tom Riddle possessed Ginny not Voldermort."

I think that is like saying the Harry who lived with the Dursleys for 11 years is different from the Harry who attends Hogwarts. They are one and the same, it is only their knowledge/experiences that are different. Tom Riddle is Lord Voldemort and I don't think they can be seperated - one is simply younger and just starting on his quest for power and immortality, and the other is older and farther along in that quest. Tom may have gotten the yew wand, but Voldemort has it now. Technically speaking it was not Tom Riddle who possessed Ginny, it was the "memory" of Tom Riddle.....I wonder how much difference that makes, if any ???

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Ms Amanda - May 8, 2005 12:41 pm (#759 of 2152)

Choices - "They are one and the same, it is only their knowledge/experiences that are different."

While I tend to make a distinction when I speak of Tom and Voldemort,you seem to be completely correct. Dumbledore refers to Voldemort as "Tom" during the battle at the MoM, does he not? However, in front of Harry, he refers to him as "Voldemort." Of course,not knowing what Voldie did to guard against death, I can't know that the only thing that is different is the knowledge and experience he has gained. Voldemort himself makes steps to insure that no one connects him with his childhood self (by creating a new identity for himself)before he reverses his stance by dragging DEs to his father's grave.

As for Ginny, I think it is an important distinction that it was not Voldemort himself that made the connection. I, too, believe that "memory" Tom gave away some important detail. One personality trait that Voldemort and Tom have in common (thus supporting the idea that we can't separate them) is overlooking the importance of some details. What I can't understand is why Ginny has not revealed it already to Harry. Also, it would be interesting to see what Ginny does if she talks to Voldemort. Would she use his name?

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Puck - May 8, 2005 7:51 pm (#760 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
Well, if the detail seemed unobvious to Riddle, it may not be obvious to Ginny as important, either. Or perhaps she assumes that all he told her was a lie- which could well be the case.

Now, would the current LV have knowledge of the encounter with Ginny? I mean other than what Lucius would have told him (see Master, I did try to help you come back, in some fashion). Is there a connection between memory Tom and Lord Voldemort? If there is, then LV knows some of Ginny's thoughts as well.

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S.E. Jones - May 9, 2005 2:30 pm (#761 of 2152)

Let it snow!
I somehow doubt Ginny's connection to Tom Riddle will be very helpful in terms of revealing secrets. I have a feeling that the 'secrets' Tom revealed to her were more akin to the secrets she was sharing, something like 'I remember this big kid who liked animals; other students were always picking on him... kids can be so mean!'. I mean, these were the kinds of things Ginny was sharing with him, why would he come out with 'yeah, I know, I once hunted down my dad and grandparents and murdered them all'. Wee little Voldie seemed far too crafty, even then, to make a mistake like that.

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Solitaire - May 9, 2005 10:47 pm (#762 of 2152)

It sounds to me more like Tom picked Ginny's brain regarding Harry--once she revealed who Harry was and what had happened to Tom's Voldemort self. It is possible that, in the process of that "picking," he revealed something pertinent. Or perhaps a question that he asked might have significance. It sounds rather like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Solitaire

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The giant squid - May 10, 2005 12:31 am (#763 of 2152)

Now, would the current LV have knowledge of the encounter with Ginny?

I don't think so. Their "timelines" split at the point the diary was created. Everything that happened to Diary Tom is separate from Lord Voldemort's experiences. Had Tom succeeded in stealing Ginny's lifeforce and becoming real, though, I think he could have joined with LV's (at the time) disembodied spirit and "merged" memories, making Voldemort stronger. JKR hinted as such in one of her Q&A's (too tired to search Quick Quotes for the exact notation).

--Mike

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Steve Newton - May 10, 2005 5:54 am (#764 of 2152)

Librarian
I can't help but think that Peter would tell Voldemort everything he wanted to know about the Diary's encounter with Harry. I'm sure that Ron wanted to know what happened and that Peter would have been sure to hang around.

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Solitaire - May 10, 2005 7:03 am (#765 of 2152)

I agree, Steve, and I think we will find out that Peter has been the conduit for a lot of obscure information about the Weasleys which may come in handy ... making me wonder just how safe the Burrow is these days. Peter, after all, knows just where it is. Due to Harry's close relationships with all but Percy, any Weasley would make a nice hostage to lure Harry somewhere. Then again, perhaps what happened with Sirius may make Harry less "trustful" of any similar "visions" he may have in the future.

Solitaire

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Steve Newton - May 10, 2005 7:57 am (#766 of 2152)

Librarian
I would imagine that Peter knows more about the Burrow than any other person. 13 years of crawling around.

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S.E. Jones - May 10, 2005 9:08 am (#767 of 2152)

Let it snow!
--It sounds to me more like Tom picked Ginny's brain regarding Harry-- Solitaire

That's what I meant. Tom quotes Ginny in the Chamber how she's been writing about "how her brothers tease her, how she had to come to school with secondhand robes and books, how... how she didn't think famous, good, great Harry Potter would ever like her....". He also says that he wrote back being sympathetic, so in retrospect, I don't think he actually revealed anything to her, just waited until she revealed something he wanted to know to him....

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Solitaire - May 10, 2005 9:18 am (#768 of 2152)

SE Jones, I knew what you meant. I was just suggesting that, in "picking her brain," it is possible that some of the questions Tom asked might provide a clue. Then again, perhaps not. Sometimes, though, the kinds of questions one asks about something can reveal a lot. And we all know that Tom does tend to underestimate his victims.

Solitaire

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Ydnam96 - May 14, 2005 10:57 pm (#769 of 2152)

Solitaire, you are correct...I think that there is still more to come from Ginny's encouter with Tom in CoS. There has to be...maybe not because VM got any info out of Ginny (as it was the "spirit" of Tom that had the info and he's gone) but the effect that the experience had on Ginny. Maybe she learned something and she hasn't realized it yet, like a bit of obscure info on Tom that he didn't realize he said or something. She may prove to be very useful...

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Aqualu Nifey - Jun 14, 2005 7:10 pm (#770 of 2152)

"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause." - Padme Amidala-Skywalker
I think Tom knew what was going on with Voldemort, he understands that he hates and needs Harry Potter, which is something he wouldn't know fifty years ago. This is making me think of how Riddle turned to Voldemort. It seems to be at least a little like Star Wars. Riddle was young and intelligent and hated the person who killed his mother. What would have turned him into such a cruel - er - thing. A 'thing' that isn't even a man any more. Anyway....

Do you think anyone asked Ginny about what her encounter with Riddle was like. I'm fairly certain that if Harry or Dumbledore asked her about it, she would probably tell them. Riddle might have told her something that he thought would be safe, but then could lead to his death. JM2K....

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Solitaire - Jun 14, 2005 8:43 pm (#771 of 2152)

Riddle might have told her something that he thought would be safe, but then could lead to his death

This is what I said a few posts back, Aqualu. She may not even be aware just yet of something that could turn out to be a key to defeating Voldemort.

I keep going back to Riddle's comments to Harry, down in the Chamber, that "Ginny simply loved me ...," "... I've always been able to charm the people I needed ...," and "... I grew powerful ... to start pouring a little of my soul into her ..."

Does a little of Riddle's soul still reside in Ginny? If so, could this prove important in the future?

Edit: Oops! I forgot to mention about love ... and how Riddle ridiculed Ginny's love. For some reason, this seems to stick in my mind about Riddle and his never having been loved. I can't help thinking there is some significance to the way he treats love.

Solitaire

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dizzy lizzy - Jun 14, 2005 9:15 pm (#772 of 2152)

There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
I can't help thinking there is some significance to the way he treats love. soli

As a trashy good for nothing emotion that's worth absolutely nothing...

Methinks, Voldemort will regret deeply the way Riddle riduculoed Ginny's ability to feel love.

Wait up!...if he, (Voldemort) treats love with such disdain; then he won't be able to feel regret either will he????

Lizzy

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Eponine - Jun 14, 2005 9:55 pm (#773 of 2152)

Does a little of Riddle's soul still reside in Ginny? If so, could this prove important in the future? - Solitaire

There's a theory that I'm quite fond of about this very thing. Basically, the theory is that the diary was one of the steps LV took to try to achieve immortality. When he wrote the diary, he stored either part or all of his soul in it, because if you cannot destroy the soul, then you cannot destroy the man. The theory goes on to state that the diary was acting as a conduit for Riddle's soul, and when Harry stabbed it, part of his soul was still in Ginny. If anything of this type happened, then I would say it will be very important in the future.

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Betelgeuse Black - Jun 15, 2005 7:01 am (#774 of 2152)

I'm quite sure that Ginny had many bad memories of Riddlemort. I don't have the exact quote but in PoA, Ginny seemed to be the second most effected by the dementors. She was white and shaking. Harry passed out. Everyone else was shaken but not as much.

This makes me wonder if Voldy used pain to "encourage" her to do his bidding like he did with Quirrel.

Betelgeuse

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Solitaire - Jun 15, 2005 11:01 am (#775 of 2152)

I think Riddle truly possessed Ginny. Perhaps her painful memories were more connected to what she later learned she had done under his "spell," if you will. She would certainly feel immense guilt for having helped the Basilisk petrify so many people, especially Penelope (her brother's girlfriend) and Hermione.

Quite honestly, I would think that the simple fact of having been possessed by Riddle would be more than enough for Ginny to have been seriously affected by the Dementors ... even if no actual physical pain were involved. JM2K ...

Solitaire

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Potterhead - Jun 15, 2005 6:54 pm (#776 of 2152)

A while back, on the Prophecy thread, I think, I queried whether LV knew of what happened in the Chamber with Riddle. Someone, can't remember who, said there was no evidence he did know. Was just reviewing GoF in the graveyard scene where LV recounts for his death eaters the times Harry has thwarted him. He does not mention the Chamber. At all. So I think maybe there's more evidence from the books that he doesn't know about Riddle, or that he at least is unable to draw on that experience. Then again, Ginny says she's the only person Harry knows who has been possessed by LV. It's very inconclusive. Would be a good question for JKR.

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MickeyCee3948 - Jun 15, 2005 7:10 pm (#777 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Potterhead-I agree that he did not seem to know but after the whole of OotP with Lucius back as his #1, I am sure that he(Lucius) has informed the Dark Lord of everything that he knows about the Chamber and the events that were involved and after all Harry did give him the Diary back.

Mickey

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Aqualu Nifey - Jun 21, 2005 5:13 pm (#778 of 2152)

"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause." - Padme Amidala-Skywalker
Wait, wait, "Harry did give him the Diary back." Do you think that could lead to 'badness.' The Basilisk fang DID destroy it, but...if there was any venom left in that fang, that might be bad, or if there was still a little Tom Riddle in there, that would also be bad. Gets me kinda worried.

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ema fewett - Jun 24, 2005 9:59 am (#779 of 2152)

Hi! I don't think I've ever posted in this thread so here I go:

A couple posts ago, there was mention about Ginny and the dementor. I think that besides Harry, in the third book, Ginny is the only one in the "group" that got effected a lot. Is this because of LV possessing her or there's probably more to Ginny than meets the eye!

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applepie - Jun 24, 2005 10:08 am (#780 of 2152)

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Ema, I think it's a good possibility that it has something to do with Voldemort possessing Ginny. But, and I stress But, I also think that there is more to Ginny that we will find out about later in the series.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 24, 2005 2:11 pm (#781 of 2152)

Ginny has some pretty bad memories to be forced to live through. That is why the dementors would effect her. I agree there is a lot more to Ginny. I'm looking forward to HBP to see her next adventures! LPO

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Puck - Jun 25, 2005 3:15 pm (#782 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
DD wouldn't have let Harry return the diary if it could do any more harm. Unless LV asked, I doubt Lucius would offer much info about the chamber, as the plan failed. I does seem as if the experience of the diary is responsible for Ginny's strong reaction to dementors. Which leads me to wonder, how much more more will she and the others be effected after their experince in the MOM? I mean, now that the demenotrs are on LV's side, it is likely Ginny and company will run into them yet again.

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MickeyCee3948 - Jun 25, 2005 5:42 pm (#783 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Puck she probably will run into the dementors again and hopefully the OTJ training she received in the MOM and during her classes with Harry in the DA meetings will allow her to handle them.

Mickey

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 26, 2005 2:46 pm (#784 of 2152)

My guess is the Patronus Charm will become a must learn for all the DA members. Ginny will have more reason to learn it than most. LPO

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Weeny Owl - Jun 30, 2005 9:57 pm (#785 of 2152)

OTJ? What does OTJ mean?

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dizzy lizzy - Jun 30, 2005 10:21 pm (#786 of 2152)

There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
"On The Job" training????

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Weeny Owl - Jul 3, 2005 10:50 am (#787 of 2152)

Oh, okay. Thanks, Lizzy.

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Ginny Weasley118 - Jul 25, 2005 1:32 am (#788 of 2152)

What is your most favorite thing about the Weasley's??

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Choices - Jul 25, 2005 9:17 am (#789 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
The fact that they are a big, loving family!!

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Solitaire - Jul 25, 2005 10:20 am (#790 of 2152)

The Weasleys suffer from the same kinds of things that plague us ordinary Muggles--money problems, fear and concern for our children, children who grieve us and cause heartbreak to our families, hassles at work, problems with friends ... In short, they are like most of the people with whom I am friends. If I were part of the Wizarding World, I've no doubt the Weasley family would be my friends.

Solitaire

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pottermom34 - Jul 29, 2005 6:38 pm (#791 of 2152)

well put choices and solitaire, I like them for those reasons too and because their just kind of humble folk I thank.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 30, 2005 10:34 am (#792 of 2152)

They are a fun family. They enjoy each other and life. I agree Solitaire I would like to be friends with them. I thoroughly enjoy watching the kids "grow up" in the books. LPO

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S.E. Jones - Aug 3, 2005 9:06 am (#793 of 2152)

Let it snow!
This thread is about Ginny, not the Weasley family in general...

So, what were some of your favorite things about Ginny in this book?

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Weeny Owl - Aug 3, 2005 9:15 am (#794 of 2152)

One of my favorite things, Sarah, was when Harry was kneeling by Dumbledore's body and Hagrid couldn't get him to move. Ginny came up and took his hand and he went with her. Out of everyone at Hogwarts, she's the only one who came to him. I think that shows just what depth she has and how strong her feelings are, and I don't mean just romantic ones. Ginny has a great deal of strength and compassion which I feel will be needed by all of her friends and family in the coming year.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 3, 2005 10:06 am (#795 of 2152)

Harry has been deeply wounded emotionally by Voldemort and the Death Eaters. I tend to think that only Ginny understands how deeply those wounds affect Harry because of her experience at Voldemort's hands.

I also think that only Ginny, Harry and Hagrid understand how broken Remus was by Dumbledore's death at the hands of Voldemort and his followers because, Ginny, Harry, and Hagrid have been subjected to Voldemort's evil and in each case Dumbledore assumed the role of protector.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 3, 2005 10:11 am (#796 of 2152)

Ginny never gave up on Harry. Evan though at the end he tried to distance himself from her, I don't think it will be that easy. Ginny is one person I would want on my side during a battle.

Right on Nathan! There is a very deep connection between Ginny, Harry and Hagrid. Lupin also lost his biggest protector and supporter. LPO

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S.E. Jones - Aug 3, 2005 10:14 am (#797 of 2152)

Let it snow!
--I also think that only Ginny, Harry and Hagrid understand how broken Remus was by Dumbledore's death at the hands of Voldemort and his followers because, Ginny, Harry, and Hagrid have been subjected to Voldemort's evil and in each case Dumbledore assumed the role of protector.-- Nathan Zimmerman

I'd say that, in everyone's case, Dumbledore assumed the role of protector where Voldemort was concerned. Everyone kept saying, "as long as Dumbledore's here", which shows that they looked to him for protection.

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Mrs Brisbee - Aug 3, 2005 10:32 am (#798 of 2152)

I'd say that, in everyone's case, Dumbledore assumed the role of protector where Voldemort was concerned. Everyone kept saying, "as long as Dumbledore's here", which shows that they looked to him for protection. --S.E.Jones

That is a very good point. Hopefully everyone wasn't relying on Dumbledore too much, because now he is gone. Everyone must have realized he wouldn't have been around forever. Even if he had not been murdered, he was very old.

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J Hood - Aug 3, 2005 10:45 am (#799 of 2152)

That is an interesting post to put in the Ginny thread. It seems to me that of course everyone relies on DD because lets face it he is the man. However, out of all the people that he is considered to be a protector wouldn't it seem that Ginny would be far down that list? If anyone Harry would be more her protector from COS and then taking care of the guy in HBP.

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mike miller - Aug 3, 2005 11:03 am (#800 of 2152)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
I'm afraid that if Harry insists on sticking to his "we can't keep this up" position with Ginny he may end up on the wrong end of a Bat-Bogey hex or Jelly-legs jinx.

Ginny's not going to give up on Harry now, she just understands him and knows when and how to deal with the question of their 'ship.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 3, 2005 11:07 am (#801 of 2152)
S.E. Jones, I am inclined to agree that Dumbledore did assume the role of protector with everyone. I would just argue that it varied by degrees and with Ginny, Harry, Hagrid and Remus the role of Dumbledore as protector was emphasized to a greater degree. As an indication of this I am reminded of how Dumbledore mollified the disappointment and anger that Arthur felt at the end of CoS because, Ginny had been writing in Tom Riddle's diary.

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haymoni - Aug 3, 2005 8:15 pm (#802 of 2152)

I think Ginny will wait for Harry to finish his quest. She'll be there for him when he needs her. They were friends first, after all.

If Harry dies in the process, I think Ginny would be strong enough to love and respect him for his efforts and bravery. I don't think she would sit around pining for The-Boy-Who-Didn't-Live.

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S.E. Jones - Aug 4, 2005 8:32 am (#803 of 2152)

Let it snow!
I don't think she'll sit around as it is. I have to wonder if she might just show up with Ron and Hermione at 4 Privet Drive at the beginning of Book 7.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 4, 2005 9:10 am (#804 of 2152)

S.E., I doubt she will remain behind while Ron and Hermione go to 4 Privet Drive. Several days ago I said that Duddley would have to be on his behavior and be careful not to continue his harrassment of Harry because, I thought that Ron might go into a rage at Dudley and complete what Hagrid failed to do in PS and transfigure Dudley into a pig. Although, if Ginny were present and Dudley harassed Harry, her rage would be stronger given her affections for Harry and I think she may transfigure Dudley into a bouncing pig.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 4, 2005 9:20 am (#805 of 2152)

LOL Nathan, Bouncing Pig Dudley. Maybe a Bat Bogey Hex thrown in for good measure. I don't think Harry will be able to convince Ginny to stay away from him. She is the seventh child and only Weasley girl for many generations. She will be a very powerful ally for the trio. LPO

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S.E. Jones - Aug 4, 2005 9:27 am (#806 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Talk about going full circle... from Draco the amazing bouncing ferret to Dudley the incredible bouncing pig....

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Wizadora - Aug 4, 2005 11:08 am (#807 of 2152)

Ginny is "home" to Harry. That is why she is going to be important in how to bring down LV. Even before he realizes that he wants to snog her, he smells her scent. Which reminds him of the Burrow. Of a home. A true welcoming home, which is the real thing lacking in his life. Ginny embodies that - plus she is more than a match for him and any ego he might have. Not to mention that she can play quiditch! She is perfect for Harry, and JKR wouldn't create a perfect mate for Harry unless it was for keeps or for a important plot point.

Harry dumps Ginny because he doesn't want their feelings for each other to be used against them. But I think that is entirely the point of why they should stay together. It is his feelings for her and the others that will prove too powerful in the end. Love will conquer all.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 4, 2005 1:16 pm (#808 of 2152)

Given how Hagrid was unable to move Harry after finding Dumbledore's body and that Ginny was the only one capable bringing him arounf leading him to where he was needed. Could Ginny's presence at Godric's Hollow to serve the same purpose?

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Wizadora - Aug 4, 2005 1:23 pm (#809 of 2152)

Maybe Nathan. She obviously speaks to Harry's core in a way that no one else does. That could be used at Goderic's Hollow and in any final confrontation with LV. To give Harry "living strength", rather than the strength he has gotten from people already dead.

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Mrs. Sirius - Aug 4, 2005 9:57 pm (#810 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Wizadora, boy are you on the money. Well at least from my point of view. Ginny is there for far more than a 'ship. JK created the perfect woman for Harry in every way, intellect, skills, bravery, passion. Harry was saved by his mother's love. He has survived because he loves. I just can't see his love romance ending just because he wants to protect Ginny.

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Steve Newton - Aug 5, 2005 6:03 am (#811 of 2152)

Librarian
I never gave it a moments thought that the relationship was ended.

Do you think that Ginny would sacrifice herself to save Harry? Sort of like Lily did?

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Sparrowhawk - Aug 5, 2005 8:46 am (#812 of 2152)

What if they simultaneously gave their life to save each other?

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 5, 2005 1:05 pm (#813 of 2152)

What cheery thoughts! I hope they do not have to sacrifice themselves for each other. I am sure they would be willing though. Harry may have to choose between saving Ginny and staying alive to conquer Voldemort. LPO

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Verbina - Aug 5, 2005 1:14 pm (#814 of 2152)

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Ginny never gave up before and sorry but she is a stubborn independent girl (I like her!) so there is no way she will just walk away now. And to be honest, I don't think that Harry will be able to just stop caring about her. Harry has to learn yet the strength of love and not just the love of a mother for a son but the love between two people. I think that Ginny will have to help Harry see that.

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Sparrowhawk - Aug 5, 2005 2:50 pm (#815 of 2152)

I'm not saying that they would both die. After all, when his mother gave her life for Harry, Voldemort's curse backfired and he was nearly destroyed, but Harry escaped unscathed but for his scar. This time, Harry and Ginny might protect each other, and in the process eliminate Tom for good...

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Mrs. Sirius - Aug 5, 2005 10:07 pm (#816 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Hard to say exactly but I certainly can envision a scenario where Harry doesn't really want to commit "murder" but commits the deed to save Ginny (love).

In the finally battle, I can see Ginny being, if not a central part, certainly a important motivator. Ages ago we had a thread which I think wound up on the FanFiction Forum where we wrote the ending scene. My entry was something like

"battle, battle, battle, wounds, victory. Ginny takes Harry's hand, reaches out and touches his scar."

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Paulus Maximus - Aug 5, 2005 11:45 pm (#817 of 2152)

Hard to say exactly but I certainly can envision a scenario where Harry doesn't really want to commit "murder" but commits the deed to save Ginny (love).

It isn't really murder if it's done to defend yourself or your loved ones...

I imagine that's why you put it in quotes...

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 6, 2005 2:21 pm (#818 of 2152)

I think Ginny could be very useful in tracking down the Horcruxes. She is like Fred and George, she is a very creative thinker. Though I'm not sure Harry will tell her about them. LPO

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Solitaire - Aug 8, 2005 11:55 am (#819 of 2152)

Did Ginny use a love potion on Harry? Just asking ...

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Paulus Maximus - Aug 8, 2005 12:02 pm (#820 of 2152)

Not likely...

I don't think that Harry thought the same way about Ginny as Ron thought about Romilda...

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J Hood - Aug 8, 2005 1:01 pm (#821 of 2152)

There is absolutely no way that Ginny used that on Harry. First off her brothers wouldn't have sold her any and secondly she pulls in her fair share of guys without it. Plus Harry felt the pains of love throughout the book so unless she was lacing his food with it all year, I don't think that he would have had those feelings. Lastly, he smelled her in his first potions lessons when he smelled the flowers.

Just don't think that there was any way she did that.

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Herm oh ninny - Aug 8, 2005 1:06 pm (#822 of 2152)

"Accio treats!"
Also, if Harry had taken a love potion, he wouldn't have cared about Ron's feelings. He would have just gone right after Ginny- you saw how Ron acted when he took the potion.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 8, 2005 8:56 pm (#823 of 2152)

Edited Aug 8, 2005 10:01 pm
Solitaire, I think that Ginny wouldn't have used a love potion to influence Harry because, if Ginny had used one I think that J.K. Rowling would have worded her response to Melissa and Emerson regarding the relationship differently.

LPO, your thought on Ginny being adept at locating Horcruxes is interesting because, it might tie into J.K. Rowling's comments on Ginny being a seventh daughter during the interview with Melissa and Emerson

MA: Does she have a larger importance; the Tom Riddle stufff, being the seventh girl —

JKR: The backstory with Ginny was, she was the first girl to arrive in the Weasley family in generations, but there's that old tradition of the seventh daughter of a seventh daughter and a seventh son of a seventh son, so that's why she's the seventh, because she is a gifted witch. I think you get hints of that, because she does some pretty impressive stuff here and there, and you'll see that again. I searched the Internet regarding the seventh daughter of a seventh daughter. I found this information at a web site concerning old superstitions called Old Superstitions.com:

A seventh son possesses many talents and is predestined for worldly success. The seventh son of a seventh son is gifted with the art of healing. The seventh daughter of a seventh daughter possesses the power of second sight.

Given J.K Rowling's reference to the ancient tradition during the interview. Could this possibly indicate that Ginny could have an intuitive skill at locating the Horcruxes and that she will assist Harry despite his strenuous objections.

Note: I edited my last two posts to combine them into a single post.

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S.E. Jones - Aug 8, 2005 11:54 pm (#824 of 2152)

Let it snow!
I wonder if, as far as Ginny goes, a 'second sight' might just be the ability to see/understand things in a way others can't. For instance, she has the ability to understand just how Harry is influenced by Voldemort in OotP, which Ron and Hermione, despite all the years they've been with him, can't....

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 9, 2005 7:41 am (#825 of 2152)

S.E. Jones, I think that also plays a role in her character because, there are indications of that as early as the closiing chapters of CoS because, Ginny like Harry understands to greater degree the evil that sustains Voldemort because, they have experienced his evil in way others have not.

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Solitaire - Aug 9, 2005 9:50 am (#826 of 2152)

she has the ability to understand just how Harry is influenced by Voldemort in OotP, which Ron and Hermione, despite all the years they've been with him, can't....

This could also be due to the fact that she has had direct contact with him; they have not.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 9, 2005 11:10 am (#827 of 2152)

Solitaire, I agree the direct contact that both Harry and Ginny have had with Voldemort it has affect them ways that only people who have had direct contact with Voldemort can understand.

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M A Grimmett - Aug 9, 2005 2:39 pm (#828 of 2152)

Ginny is a lot more knowlegable than Harry about possession and more careful about magical objects!

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 9, 2005 5:06 pm (#829 of 2152)

Nice job on the research Nathan. Ginny is becoming very powerful. She has a keen insight on things. I think her experience with Tom/Voldemort taught her a lot. I hope Harry values her judgment and does not get too hung up on protecting her. It could be disastrous. He has the example of Dumbledore protecting Sirius too much. Ginny will not sit back and let others go into danger without helping them. LPO

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 9, 2005 5:30 pm (#830 of 2152)

LPO, I think he will value her insight and advice but his understanding of how much she can actually contribue will not be apparent to him at first. I think he'll be blindsided and ginny will rescue him.

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S.E. Jones - Aug 9, 2005 6:44 pm (#831 of 2152)

Let it snow!
Solitaire, that's what I meant. Because they have both been affected by Voldemort in very personal and unique ways, Ginny has some insight into Harry's emotions and thoughts that even his best friends don't. I wasn't thinking of the 'second sight' as being like the folklore, more in the way Remus's name suggested a wolf connection but without any connections to the actual myth, Ginny has some insight into Harry that has nothing to do with a 'true' second sight lore....

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 9, 2005 6:53 pm (#832 of 2152)

S.E. perhaps you are right. Although, I tend toward a melding of all these ideas much in the same way the character of Remus was a melding of various sources and ideas. I also agree that Ginny's experiences with Voldemort give her a more perceptive and accurate insight into Harry. that is separate and distinct from true second sight.

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Dumbly-dorr - Aug 10, 2005 4:35 pm (#833 of 2152)

Happy Birthday, today, Ginny. It's on JK Rowling's site today.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 10, 2005 5:45 pm (#834 of 2152)

Happy Birthday Ginny! Nathan it probably will take a jolt for Harry to appreciate her. Though he should by now. She has shown herself to be quite resourceful! LPO

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Oliver Wood - Aug 10, 2005 6:48 pm (#835 of 2152)

Happy Birthday Ginny! Harry always declines help from his friends thinking he has to go in alone. It happened in SS when they got left at the chess board, in CS when they were left with Lockhart after the rock slide, in GoF he ended up by himself, although there was nothing he could really do about it, and in OotP Ron and Hermione had various hold ups in the department of mysteries.

It was clear at the end of HBP, that Ron and Hermione would once again be by Harry's side, although for how long no one can really speculate. However, Ginny's persistance shows a great dedication to either Harry, or DD cause, or both. In any case, she will be a valuable character, and if her actions at the end of HBP attest anything to her merit, I doubt that she will let slide past her that easily.

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Herm oh ninny - Aug 10, 2005 9:38 pm (#836 of 2152)

"Accio treats!"
Happy Birthday Ginny!!

WOW, 16 years old.....the perfect age to follow a certain boy wizard on his next adventure and help him despite his reluctance!

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Solitaire - Aug 10, 2005 10:25 pm (#837 of 2152)

Nathan it probably will take a jolt for Harry to appreciate her.

Do you really think so? I got the idea that Harry was very well aware of what Ginny had to offer. The fact that he does not want her involved in the dangerous aspects of what he knows lies ahead does not indicate a lack of appreciation, of either her charms or her abilities as a witch. At the moment, his concern for her safety as a "love object" is probably outweighing his realization that she is capable of fighting side by side with him, just as Hermione and Ron have done. Give him time ... he'll get there! I don't think it will take a jolt, either. Ginny is headstrong and independent. She will do as she pleases ... and he'll have to get used to the idea.

Solitaire

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Snuffles - Aug 11, 2005 12:37 am (#838 of 2152)

Olivia
**claps** Well put Solitaire.

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haymoni - Aug 11, 2005 5:33 am (#839 of 2152)

Never a doubt that Miss Ginny Weasley was a Leo!!!!

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Ida-ho-Potato - Aug 11, 2005 6:18 am (#840 of 2152)

The Holloween Hag/Witch
Happy Birthday Ginny!!!!!!!

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 11, 2005 10:48 am (#841 of 2152)

Solitaire, I tend to think that he will need a jolt but, I concede that my observations on that are in all probability affected to certain extent by real life experiences and that those experiences color the way I view Harry's actions.

I do agree though that Harry's actions are borne out of a desire to protect and shield Ginny. It is my hope that Harry realizes just how strong Ginny is and that she more than capable of holding her own.

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Solitaire - Aug 11, 2005 10:57 am (#842 of 2152)

I think he will realize it soon enough, Nathan, because the violence is only starting. Even without a love relationship with Harry, I should think Ginny would make a possible DE target, because of her past combat actions with the DE and her history with Voldemort.

Ginny is strong-willed, and she will not be set aside, even though Harry is trying to do this for her safety. I do not think it will take long for him to realize that she is a target in her own right, and that denying his love for her is not going to change that.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that James may have tried to shield Lily in the same way, initially, before they were married. Ginny, however--like Lily before her--will not be content to sit on the sidelines while others are in the game. She is brave, as Lily was brave, and Harry will realize that they are even stronger together than they are individually ... Well, that is what I think will eventually happen.

Solitaire

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Verbina - Aug 11, 2005 7:21 pm (#843 of 2152)

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I am thinking that perhaps Ginny will help Harry in some way. We all know that Dumbeldore was of the opinion that love is stronger than anything. Voldemort doesn't understand the love within people and was unable to posess Harry because at the time, Harry was distraught over losing someone he loved, with the love he felt for Sirius being at the forefront. Harry still needs to learn how strong love can be and how it will help him defeat Voldemort...and Ginny is just the girl to make him see it!

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Mrs. Sirius - Aug 11, 2005 10:34 pm (#844 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Nathan Zimmerman I do agree though that Harry's actions are borne out of a desire to protect and shield Ginny.

But not only does Harry want to protect Ginny, Harry right now is a man with a mission an needs to eliminate any distractions either for himself or Voldemort. He needs to focus on his task destroy and kill Voldermort and horcruxes.

JKR, I think, has thrown us another anvil size clue hidden in broad daylight. Mrs. Weasleys excellent clock has all the Weasley's clock hand pointed at "in mortal peril". She then highlights that by having Mrs. Weasley say something to the effect of "in there times, I suppose everyone is in (in mortal peril).

"I don't know anyone else with a clock like this so I can't check" pg. 85 (Bloomsbury)

I would fancy a guess that not every family has every member in mortal danger. Why the entire family is in danger may be a simple as LV and the DE are really evil and blood thirsty but that can't be all of it.

Ginny, yes she definitely will get more attention than other people, (lots of red hair and really good at hexing) and that boyfriend of hers!

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Kazius - Aug 14, 2005 9:15 am (#845 of 2152)

Skeptic
There is no question that Ginny is a powerful witch, and there is no question that Harry and Ginny were well designed as a match. Then, I combine this with the fact that Harry's power that LV knows not is his ability to love.

The logical conclusion is that Harry's love could be manifested greatest in the person he loves the most, which would be Ginny. This relationship will continue, and be pivotal to book 7.

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Solitaire - Aug 14, 2005 6:11 pm (#846 of 2152)

But not only does Harry want to protect Ginny, Harry right now is a man with a mission an needs to eliminate any distractions either for himself or Voldemort. He needs to focus on his task destroy and kill Voldermort and horcruxes.

I'd say this is accurate.

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Adam Elliott - Aug 21, 2005 6:43 am (#847 of 2152)

Anyone know who was made Gryffindor Prefect from Ginny's year? What with the Weasley family tradition of prefects I figured she was a shoe-in. Although, I could see them intentionally not making her one so as to allow her to be Quiddich Captain next year (Harry's not playing, he won't have time for it) Thoughts?

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haymoni - Aug 21, 2005 8:04 am (#848 of 2152)

I thought it was strange that we heard nothing about that. I think Ginny would have made a great prefect.

Maybe Dumbledore saw more of Fred & George in her and decided not to select her.

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M A Grimmett - Aug 22, 2005 1:27 pm (#849 of 2152)

Aren't Ron and Hermione still the prefects?

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 22, 2005 1:30 pm (#850 of 2152)

A question are there seperate sets of prefects for the fifth, sixth and seventh years?

Also if there are seperate sets of prefects which set is responsible for watching the first through fourth year students? Or does that task fall directly to the Head of House?

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M A Grimmett - Aug 22, 2005 1:33 pm (#851 of 2152)
That's a good point, Nathan. I have just assumed that once a prefect was selected, he/she served until graduation or until becoming Head Boy/Girl.

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The giant squid - Aug 23, 2005 1:37 am (#852 of 2152)

That would mean that prefects are only chosen every three years (each group serves from 5th to 7th years). That doesn't work when you consider that Percy was prefect in SS and was only a 5th year; new prefects would have to have been chosen when HRH were 2nd years for Ron & Hermione to be eligible in year 5.

That is, assuming JKR got her maths right.

--Mike

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haymoni - Aug 23, 2005 3:25 am (#853 of 2152)

I thought that every class of 5th years had prefects selected.

Hermione, Percy, Lupin - they just happened to fall on the selecting year??? No - I think it is an ongoing thing.

Once you are chosen you are prefect for years 5, 6, & 7. That's only 6 students every year to keep an eye on all of Gryffindor.

Maybe they should start in year 4!!!

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Ydnam96 - Aug 23, 2005 7:08 am (#854 of 2152)

I do think that there are prefects in each year, 5, 6, and 7. Once you are picked as one your fifth year you stay a prefect until the end (unless you get fired). I think I remember someone mentioning the fact that Malfoy was "still a prefect". So they might have been hoping he had been sacked...

I think that the reason we don't know who was selected out of Ginny's year is because it's not really important to the story. I'm sure we don't know who a lot of the prefects are in the school, just because it doesn't fall into the story.

Just my thoughts...

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haymoni - Aug 23, 2005 7:22 am (#855 of 2152)

I think we thought that Ginny would be picked.

Again, she must belong to the next-door neighbor!

Blows that whole 7th child thing right out the window!

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Mrs. Sirius - Aug 23, 2005 10:30 pm (#856 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Don't ever count Ginny out. Next year she could be Quidditch captain. And as Hermione so helpfully informed us, -that makes you equal with prefects-. Also we still don't know all the qualifications for Head Boy/Girl. (Assuming of course Ginny returns)

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The giant squid - Aug 24, 2005 12:38 am (#857 of 2152)

Really, do we know of any prefects outside Harry's year besides Percy (while Harry is at school)? As Ydnam said, we don't know about Ginny's year because it's not integral to the story (and Harry was worrying about bigger things than prefects).

--Mike

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Finn BV - Aug 24, 2005 7:29 am (#858 of 2152)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I think Harry will stay on as Quidditch Captain and Ginny will not become it next year – however, should we find out what happens in (if there is a) school year Y18 (the fall after Harry would graduate), Ginny would definitely become Captain. Still, it seems unlikely we would delve into those details after what we know will have to happen at the end of Book 7…

Head Boys and Girls aren't appointed until the 7th year, so Ginny's only chance of gaining access to the prefect bathroom would be… if she were a prefect.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 24, 2005 8:56 am (#859 of 2152)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"so Ginny's only chance of gaining access to the prefect bathroom would be… if she were a prefect."

Hmm, Harry wasn't a prefect and he gained entrance, can never tell what may happen in JKR's future world...

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Madam Pince - Aug 24, 2005 11:52 am (#860 of 2152)

The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Prefects and Quidditch Captains have access to the prefect bathroom, according to Hermione.

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Helen Lehman - Aug 24, 2005 4:36 pm (#861 of 2152)

Tom Riddle (from his diary) tells Harry that he has put a fragment of his soul into Ginny (CS). Can this mean that Ginny is a horcrux? What terrible choice will Harry have to make, when he finds this out? Can JKR be this cruel? Helen [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Weeny Owl - Aug 25, 2005 1:24 am (#862 of 2152)

From the interview with Melissa and Emerson:

JKR: Well, I'm prepared to bet you now, that at least before the week is out, at least one of the Horcruxes will have been correctly identified by careful re-readers of the books.

MA: Someone put it to me last night, that if Ginny, with the diary -

JKR: Harry definitely destroyed that piece of soul, you saw it take shape, you saw it destroyed, it’s gone. And Ginny is definitely in no way possessed by Voldemort.

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Snuffles - Aug 25, 2005 1:59 am (#863 of 2152)

Olivia
Phew.....

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Dame Peverell - Aug 26, 2005 2:16 pm (#864 of 2152)

Who wants JKR to hire some help and get on with it...
I have only skimmed maybe a quarter of the posts here and run a fruitless search so I am very sorry if someone else brought this up and I missed it.

IS GINNY THE ONLY PUREBLOOD GIRL IN THIS GENERATION?

It would seem possible unless Bellatrix has a daughter or there are more Pureblood Families we don't know about.

But if she is the last, wouldn't that warrant some special attention from the fanatic crowd? Is there some plan to steal her for Draco?

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Steve Newton - Aug 26, 2005 2:20 pm (#865 of 2152)

Librarian
What are the backgrounds of the Patil twins? Lavender? Pansy? Millicent? Cho? These may be clear but there are a lot of other girls that we know little about. Even if this were the case, and I don't think that it is, we don't have enough information to know for sure.

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Finn BV - Aug 26, 2005 4:07 pm (#866 of 2152)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
TBE and Madam Pince, what I meant was, since I feel that Harry will stay on as Quidditch Captain, and Ginny will be in her sixth year next year and Head Girls aren't appointed until 7th year, and the only three (that we know of) types of people who gain access to the prefects' bathroom are:

Quidditch Captain (no go, IMO)
Head Girl (not the right year)
and Prefects; she must be given prefect status to get into the bathroom… legally .
PHEW! All in one sentence.

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Solitaire - Aug 27, 2005 11:39 am (#867 of 2152)

I have not yet counted Harry out for his seventh year at Hogwarts, even though he may not be considering returning at the moment. I suspect he will need the help of McGonagall and Flitwick--as well as Slughorn, if he agrees to stay on at Hogwarts--if he plans to find all of the Horcruxes and destroy them. I look for Dumbledore's portrait to give McGonagall crucial advice for helping Harry.

More to the point, I believe Hermione and Ron will still be at Hogwarts, and their assistance will be necessary to Harry (why would this year be any different). Ginny will still be at Hogwarts, which will be a powerful inducement to remain enrolled.

Perhaps Harry will be given special permission to "come and go" as needed while he is there, and perhaps Aberforth will assist him in this by providing a re-entry and departure point for his adventures. Just a thought ...

As to pure-blood girls, isn't Pansy a pure-blood? I seem to remember someone questioning whether Millie was a pure-blood, given her penchant for physical confrontation (head-locks and half-Nelsons?) as opposed to using her wand against her opponent. Do we know the "blood status" of the Patil twins, Lavender, Luna (pure-blood?), Hannah, Marietta, etc.? Sorry if this is rather off-topic. It is a response to several issues raised in recent posts.

Solitaire

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greta - Aug 28, 2005 9:45 am (#868 of 2152)

deed done!
I always thought Lavender was either muggle born , this is simply because she is described as looking puzzled at the mention of the grim in POA which seemed to indicate that she didn't possess the everyday knowledge about wizarding traditions and superstitions as some other students such as Ron and Seamus, this is my only real evidence and I have no idea about anyone else!!

I think each year has prefects selected once they become fifth years, I think you stay a prefect until you leave and two new prefects are selected each year from the new fifth years, therfore at anyone time there would be 6 prefects for each house, well this is what happened when i was at school!!

Ginny would make a great Quidditch Captain next year, even if Harry does return to Hogwarts he may not play or may resign his captaincy as he embarks on the search for the horcuxes and Ginny would be a great replacement. I would love to see how Ron would react to this!

She may not have made made prefect as reading between the lines I think she is more of a fred and Geirge than a Percy, and may have been her own fair share of trouble.

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Dame Peverell - Aug 31, 2005 12:29 am (#869 of 2152)

Who wants JKR to hire some help and get on with it...
Kidnapping Ginny?

We know that Purebloods are rare and that would make it noteworthy, something JKR would add to the descriptions of individuals.

Not all Slytherins would be Purebloods regardless of Salizar Slytherins Philosophy, i. e., Tom Riddle. It's up to the Sorting Hat and what you have in your head.

You do have to be a Pureblood, as I understand it, to be a Death-Eater. So, according to the Lexicon list of Pureblood families and aside from those that are in Azkaban, there is: Bellatrix, Narcissa, and Draco. Crabbe and Goyle aren't on the Lexicon list, nor Seamus Finnigan and there are some others who should probably be there. Plus the Weasleys and the Longbottoms.

That is still a MIGHTY SHORT LIST.

The point is, if Ginny is the only Pureblood girl in her generation, isn't she the most likely next kidnapping victim? (uninserted hair-raising emoticon)

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M A Grimmett - Aug 31, 2005 1:19 pm (#870 of 2152)

Snape isn't a pureblood, and he was a DE.

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Eponine - Aug 31, 2005 1:31 pm (#871 of 2152)

Off topic: Q: Apart from Harry, Snape is my favourite character because he is so complex and I just love him. Can he see the Thestrals, and if so, why? Also, is he a pure blood wizard?

A: Snape’s ancestry is hinted at. He was a Death Eater, so clearly he is no Muggle born, because Muggle borns are not allowed to be Death Eaters, except in rare circumstances. You have some information about his ancestry there.

Found here

On topic: I doubt Ginny will be kidnapped, but if such a storyline were to be developed, I would expect it to be because she was Harry Potter's girlfriend and not because she was a rare pureblood girl.

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Madam Pince - Aug 31, 2005 1:38 pm (#872 of 2152)

The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Still off-topic:

We were just having this discussion over on the Eileen Prince thread. I think we all agreed that Snape is not a pure-blood, since he says "I...the Half-Blood Prince" and because Hermione (usually JKR's harbinger of truth) says that Snape is the child of witch Eileen Prince and Muggle Tobias Snape.

I likewise don't think Ginny will be kidnapped. That's been done already in CoS, and I think she is also more capable of defending herself now. Someone might threaten to kidnap or hurt her, though, which might cause Harry to rush somewhere he's not supposed to be... although now that I think of it, that's been done already, too (Sirius in the DOM.) Hmmmm. JKR has sure covered a lot of ground, hasn't she?

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Dame Peverell - Aug 31, 2005 8:07 pm (#873 of 2152)

Who wants JKR to hire some help and get on with it...
So do you think it's just a coincidence that Ginny Weasley is the only girl whom we know, positively, to be a young, unmarried Pureblood???

That JKR frequently revisits an established mode is one of our best clues.

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Gerald Costales - Sep 1, 2005 5:35 am (#874 of 2152)

I was leaning to a Harry & Hermione match but I'm not disappointed. Ginny and her family is a great match for Harry. Harry needs both a strong girlfriend (and let's hope a strong future wife like Ginny) and a strong family like the Weasley's. The Dursley's provided Harry with little more than food and shelter. It's a miracle that Harry turned out so well. Ginny will provide Harry more support than Harry can be aware of. Harry was reeling from the death of Sirius at the end of Book 5 and now needs to deal with the murder of Dumbledore at the end of Book 6. Ginny will be more than a sympathetic shoulder but a helping hand as well. (Ginny has developed into a extremely strong and talented Witch.)

Kidnapping and Pure Blood Status seem to be minor issues. The only kidnapping that I would be concerned with was Mr Ollivander. And isn't it interesting that Neville fortunately brought one of the last wands sold by Mr Ollivander (Cherry and Unicorn Hair, my prediction was Holly (like Harry) and probably Phoenix feather). Pure Blood status seems only an issue with Death Eaters. If the Sorting Hat placed Snape and Tom Riddle in Slytherin than Pure Blood Status is just a minor issue.

I hope there is a Hogwarts School next term. Harry coming and going like Dumbledore in search of Horcruxes seems a great idea. This would give Harry help from MacGonagall and staff. JKR in her interview stated that the Luna hosted Quidditch match was the last Quidditch match of the Series. This maybe a disappointment to some but the meat of Book 7 will be searching for Horcruxes and defeating Voldermort. So, the Captaincy of the Gryffindor team should be a minor issue.

Book 6 focused on Harry, Ron, & Hermione. Book 7 should focus on Harry, Ginny, Ron, & Hermione. Book 6 started with Tony Blair and Fudge but nothing seemed to really come from it. Will Muggle and Wizard relations be more important in Book 7? Who R.A.B. was and what he did with the stolen Horcrux will be the mystery of Book 7. Will Slughorn be back in Book 7? Probably. Then who will be the next Potions Master/Mistress?

I’m hoping for Book 7 in two years not three. Well, it will give me time to reread the Series and bode about Book 7. ;-) GC

PS Boding started when I finished Book 6!!!!! ;-) GC

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Mrs Brisbee - Sep 1, 2005 7:02 am (#875 of 2152)

So do you think it's just a coincidence that Ginny Weasley is the only girl whom we know, positively, to be a young, unmarried Pureblood???

No. I think Rowling has just given prominence and detail to more male characters than female ones, so it might seem sometimes that there is a big sex ratio gap, but it is an illusion. I think she means for there to be the same number of female students at Hogwarts as male, even if the girls aren't described. If there are the same number, then for some strange reason there would have to be more half-blood and Muggle-born girls to make up the difference if there was a difficency in Pure-blood girls. There are the same number of male and female teachers. Appearantly Rowling has said in an interview that there were an equal number of headmistresses and headmasters-- though it is true that her descriptions in the book might lead us to think otherwise, since the vast majority of named Headmaster portraits do belong to men.

Hmmm.

Well, I can't see Rowling making a sudden plot turn in her final book to cover those missing details.

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haymoni - Sep 1, 2005 7:48 am (#876 of 2152)

What about Susan Bones & Hannah Abbott? Pure-bloods or don't we know?

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Dame Peverell - Sep 1, 2005 4:17 pm (#877 of 2152)

Who wants JKR to hire some help and get on with it...
I suppose it could just be an oversight on her part.

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Solitaire - Sep 1, 2005 6:48 pm (#878 of 2152)

What about Pansy? Draco took her to the Yule Ball, and I find it difficult to believe he would take anyone who was not a pure-blood. JMO, of course ...

Solitaire

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Dame Peverell - Sep 1, 2005 7:10 pm (#879 of 2152)

Who wants JKR to hire some help and get on with it...
I agree, you would think she is a Pureblood based on that but it's not canon, so far as I know. If she were, you would think JKR would have let it drop. Like by saying, "Pansy and a group of other Pureblood witches..." Maybe she'd be known as "Pureblood Pansy"

There was never much of a 'ship between her and Draco but he had to have a date for the ball.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 1, 2005 7:58 pm (#880 of 2152)

The Weasley's are blood-traitors. I doubt any self respecting Pure Blood family would want to taint their line with a blood-traitor. I am sure there are more Pure Blood females in Ginny's generation. We just haven't met them yet. I think she is in more danger because of her family and Harry. LPO

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Dame Peverell - Sep 2, 2005 1:50 am (#881 of 2152)

Who wants JKR to hire some help and get on with it...
Certainly the Malfoys would find the thought of Draco having to marry Ginny beneath them; and I'm sure no one else would like it either. There has been a lot of animosity between the Weasleys and Malfoys throughout the series. Yet if there are no other Pureblood girls, Purebloods must disappear in this generation.

I don’t see how there is enough time left for this to become a big factor. It seems an uncharacteristic topic for JKR to get involved in too. I don’t think it’s safe to assume however, that there are or aren’t more Pureblood girls.

This is a plot twist I could well do without. I hope JKR wasn't making a point by not revealing the Pureblood ancestry of more people and specifically, girls Ginny’s age. Still, the fact remains that if she is the only one, she could be in more danger than we thought.

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RoseMorninStar - Sep 2, 2005 3:29 am (#882 of 2152)

I live in the Shire. It looks a lot like Wisconsin, USA
I think there are far more pure-bloods than are mentioned in the books. I say that because somewhere (I will have to find it) JKR mentions that there are slightly more pure-bloods in Slytherin house but it is not a house reserved exclusively for pure-bloods (obviously). And just because the pure-bloods are fewer, that doesn't make them virtually non-existant. There are also students in wizarding schools in other places, some of which, I would imagine, are pure-blood.

Here is an interesting story about the 7th daughter of the 7th daughter: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

and also an except from this page: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

At Bristol, about forty years ago, there was a man who was always called 'Doctor,' simply because he was the seventh son of a seventh son. The family of the Joneses of Muddfi, in Wales, is said to have presented seven sons to each of many successive generations, of whom the seventh son always became a doctor—apparently from a conviction that he had an inherited qualification to start with. In Ireland, the seventh son of a seventh son is believed to possess prophetical as well as healing power. A few years ago, a Dublin shopkeeper, finding his errand-boy to be generally very dilatory in his duties, inquired into the cause, and found that, the boy being a seventh son of a seventh son, his services were often in requisition among the poorer neighbours, in a way that brought in a good many pieces of silver.

I don't know if any of that adds to the discussion of Ginny.. but there you go!

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 2, 2005 7:55 pm (#883 of 2152)

There are probably purebloods on the continent that Draco could marry. I don't think Ginny will be in much danger from a forced marriage. LPO

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Weeny Owl - Sep 2, 2005 11:45 pm (#884 of 2152)

First of all, Draco would have to make it through the series alive before he married anyone, and if he's alive at the end, he would have to stay out of prison.

Secondly, it wouldn't matter if Ginny was the only purblood girl left in the British Wizarding world, because as LPO says, there are probably more on the continent.

Thirdly, even if Ginny is the only pureblood girl left, no one would force her to marry that snotty, slimy, disgusting, sleazeball of a ferret. Ginny is too headstrong and determined to allow something like that, plus she would have the support of not only her family, but any of her friends who survived the war. Luna would make sure that The Quibbler printed something to turn public opinion if anyone tried to force her friend into a marriage.

I do believe that Pansy, Luna, and Susan are most likely pureblood, whether JKR has spelled it out or not.

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Dame Peverell - Sep 3, 2005 1:01 am (#885 of 2152)

Who wants JKR to hire some help and get on with it...
Weeny Owl I completely agree with you. It's not as if I would WANT to see such a terrible thing happen, you know. Ginny would have to spend her life under the Crusciartis (sp) curse or something. (That DOES sound like Malfoy) It would be "a fate worse than death" like the kind Voldemort deserves. It would also engender very strong feelings in the readers and make you feel really good when she got rescued. For the sake of a good story, an author will often twist the plot like a knife. Since there are undoubtedly other wizards internationally I don't take this as a serious threat. Nor am I willing to ignore the possibilities that foreshadowing has alluded to. Even foreign Pureblood wizards may be in short supply. I am only trying to point out a possibility, diabolical or not, as it may relate to other emerging theories about the next book. It really does strike me as "odd" that Ginny is the only "for sure" Pureblood witch-girl in sight. Maybe I should go put it on the "ODD" thread before I quit. I am ready to quit this subject now. I made my point. Whether it's relevant or not: we'll have to wait and see.

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Mrs. Sirius - Sep 3, 2005 10:18 pm (#886 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Certainly Luna might well be pure blood. Her mother was a witch who like to experiment with her own spells, which how she died, OoTP. Her father publisher of the Quibbler is certainly a wizard. Only to the Malfoy's would she not be certainly a witch.

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Solitaire - Sep 5, 2005 11:16 am (#887 of 2152)

I think it would require an Imperius Curse, Dame P ... and we have seen that those can be resisted and thrown off.

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Dame Peverell - Sep 5, 2005 9:42 pm (#888 of 2152)

Who wants JKR to hire some help and get on with it...
This Generations Only Pureblood Witch?

Solitaire - Quite right.

Lord Voldemort and his Death Eaters would, I'm sure, find some nasty and diabolical method of ensuring her docility if that was where the story led. Maybe they would modify her memory or just destroy her mind totally if they could. Maybe the final scene has Ginny trapped and about to lose it all when Harry sacrifices himself to save her.

I haven't read book 7 yet but I do know at this point in time that Ginny is the only Pureblood Witch in her generation that we are sure about. It may be reasonable to assume there are others but we don't know who or where they are yet.

I can't say I like it and I was startled to realize it, but there you are.

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Czarina II - Sep 5, 2005 11:25 pm (#889 of 2152)

I really don't think that it is important to the story how many 'pureblood' girls there are -- wouldn't that fact have been mentioned by now if it were? Personally, I think we are supposed to assume that most wizards and witches are 'pure'blood, though not exclusively so like the Gaunts. The wizarding world wouldn't survive otherwise. JKR just doesn't feel like taking time out of her story to explain that such and such a character is a pureblood, and so and so is a muggleborn, etc. Obviously, it would be very silly to introduce a character by saying "This is Remus Lupin. He is a halfblood." Blood status isn't something that you can tell from looking at a person (like skin colour) and most of the wizarding world isn't too particular about it, so there's no need to mention it if it isn't important to the plot.

I really don't think Pansy would still be dating Draco Malfoy if she weren't of pure blood.

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Weeny Owl - Sep 5, 2005 11:49 pm (#890 of 2152)

Good point, Czarina, and also, Blaise said he wouldn't have anything to do with Ginny because she was a blood traitor, and if Blaise wouldn't have anything to do with her, you can be sure Draco wouldn't. Ron mentions later that their whole family are blood traitors.

Since the last book is going to have to clear up quite a few things, and since it appears that much of it will be Harry's quest for Horcruxes, an elaborate storyline involving Ginny being kidnapped just doesn't seem feasible.

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The giant squid - Sep 6, 2005 2:08 am (#891 of 2152)

The fact that those of half-blood or muggle-born status are specifically mentioned tells me that the "default" status is that of pureblood. It's just that most of them don't really care one way or the other, and so don't broadcast it like Draco & his cohorts.

As for the other girls in Ginny's year...we barely know about the girls in Harry's year. The only girl a year younger than him that Harry noticed in any way was Ginny (until Luna came along). We don't hear about them because Harry didn't bother to find out about them.

It's yet another instance where we miss out on some useful info simply because Harry doesn't pay more attention to his surroundings.

--Mike

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Dame Peverell - Sep 6, 2005 6:34 am (#892 of 2152)

Who wants JKR to hire some help and get on with it...
Quite the contrary. Blood Status is constantly referred to throughout the series. We are told more than once that Pureblood wizards are rare. That doesn’t jibe with the idea that most wizards, by default, are Pureblood. Furthermore, it is the Pureblood Wizarding families who are dying out.

Look at Lupin. His Blood Status would seem to be unimportant to his role and yet we are told he is a Half-blood. If most Wizards are unconcerned with Blood Status, it’s because most Wizards have Half-bloods and Muggles in their family tree.

JKR has made it a point, as I see it, to keep the relevance of Blood-Status in front of our eyes and I don’t think we’ve seen the culmination of her purpose in that yet.

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Soul Search - Sep 6, 2005 7:51 am (#893 of 2152)

Edited Sep 6, 2005 8:57 am
There are subtle differences with the HP world uses of the "pure-blood" and "half-blood" terms.

In OotP, Sirius explains about "pure-blood" families, that is, family lines that go back a long way, how they have been dying out, and how current members of those lines are inter-related. Current descendants of these family lines, the Malfoys for example, are quick to point out their heritage because it sets them apart and justifies their expectation of running the wizarding world. These lines are well documented.

The term "pure-blood" is also used for a witch or wizard with parents, or perhaps only all grand-parents, that are magical, but not all from one of the documented family lines.

The term "half-blood" is not only used for someone that has a muggle or muggle-born parent, but also that has a muggle or muggle-born grandparent.

It gets confusing, since the terms have to be interpreted in the context of the person using them. To a member of one of the old family lines, you aren't pure-blood unless you can trace your line back a thousand years. To anyone else, you might be pure-blood if all your grandparents were magical.

I have always assumed that JKR was inserting digs at the English "royal" heritage, the House of Lords, and the Royal family.

The US has, or perhaps has had, similar distinctions, but based on "money:" class distinctions of "old" versus "new" money (or no money.) Others are ancestor based. For example, to join the D.A.R. you must prove that you are descended from a soldier that fought on the rebel side of the American revolution.

Anyway, my read is that a large number of current hogwarts students have parents and grandparents that are all magical, but not that many are descended only from the long, well documented, family lines.

There are also a modest number of "half-bloods" that have a muggle-born or even a muggle as parents or grandparents.

And, a few, like Hermione, who are "muggle-born:" no known magical ancestors.

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RoseMorninStar - Sep 6, 2005 2:32 pm (#894 of 2152)

I live in the Shire. It looks a lot like Wisconsin, USA
I know the term 'half-breed' is often used in relation to Remus Lupin, but technically he is not a half-breed. He was not bred as a werewolf..that was a condition inflicted upon him, much like someone who might be intentionally inflicted with aids today. I cannot remember if it says anywhere what Remus' blood status is.

I think this diversion with Ginny just doesn't make any sense. Book 7 will have far too many things to bring to a conclusion to go off on an unrelated plot detour with Ginny. JKR has said she likens the preoccupation of blood status to the Nazi's back in the 1940's. We have to keep in mind that JKR does not specifically mention a LOT of peoples blood status pureblood, half-blood or muggle... so it would be equally incorrect to assume either way what anyone's blood status is. Soul Search has it correct, JKR said that there are very few pure blood families... families in which the blood runs pure throughout the entire family. After all, the Black family is listed as 'pure blood' but we know that it is not...they disowned/blasted off the family tree anyone who entered into a non-pureblood marriage. (like Tonks) but there are still plenty of pure-bloods in the family (Malfoys).

I am still looking for a quote from a JKR interview...(when asked the question if Slytherin house has mostly purebloods) she says something to the effect of, there are slightly more purebloods in slytherin house than the other houses but not overwhelmingly so.

That would lead me to believe all houses have some purebloods. I will keep trying to find that quote. So, that while entire pure-blood families are extremely rare, that does not mean that pure blood wizards are as rare as entire pureblood families.

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haymoni - Sep 8, 2005 8:55 am (#895 of 2152)

Rose - JKR said in a chat or interview that Remus is a half-blood. It isn't mentioned in the books.

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RoseMorninStar - Sep 8, 2005 12:54 pm (#896 of 2152)

I live in the Shire. It looks a lot like Wisconsin, USA
Haymoni, thank you for the info. Remus may be half-blood but that does not make him a half-breed.

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haymoni - Sep 10, 2005 6:53 pm (#897 of 2152)

Exactly.

He is just unfortunate.

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Ydnam96 - Sep 11, 2005 1:13 am (#898 of 2152)

Sooo...back to Ginny...

I'm interested to see what kind of role Harry will "let" Ginny play in his life in book 7. It is fairly obvious at the end of book 6 that Harry plans on spending significant time with Hermione and Ron (and to me it was implied that they were a 'ship but I'll leave that alone); but it left his relationship with Ginny in a fuzzy place I think. Harry still has feelings for her, but has "let her go" based on his fears for her safety.

My wonderings include:

Will Ginny care that Harry doesn't want her involved and include herself anyway? I mean that in a good way, she is sure of herself and can be quite forceful. I can see her telling Harry it doesn't matter if they are "together" she cares about him and is going to be a part of his life/helping to defeat VM.

What does it matter if Harry and Ginny are officially "together" even if they defined as boyfriend and girlfriend VM and Co. could still use her against Harry, because it has been obvious to people at Hogwarts (ie, Malfoy, Crabbe, Goyle, Snape, etc...) that they care about each other. I'm sure VM doesn't care if they aren't really boyfriend/girlfriend. He only cares if the leverage works. So in my mind it is still feasable that VM could use Ginny and Harry's feelings for her against Harry (although that has already been done).

So to me, this all means, that I think that Ginny and Harry need not break up because in the end even without a label their relationship is what it is...Unless their feelings change quickly I don't see a difference about how much they care about each other. Maybe only the amount of time they spend "snogging".

Thoughts?

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RoseMorninStar - Sep 11, 2005 10:43 am (#899 of 2152)

I live in the Shire. It looks a lot like Wisconsin, USA
Ginny was 'made' for Harry. She is a formidable witch and will be quite an asset in his struggles against evil. Ginny is the seventh daughter of the seventh daughter...or so JKR said something about that. She's tough but not in a bad way. I think Harry will come to see that together they will be a force to be contended with. Just like he knows that he is stronger for having Ron and Hermionee as friends. It will be like a team effort. Ginny will not give it up. It's just that way. Like Tonks with Lupin.

I do think that Harry and Ginny may set aside the more romantic aspects of their relationship for the time being... although I can see maybe a dance or two in their future...perhaps at Bill & Fleurs wedding?

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Soul Search - Sep 11, 2005 12:14 pm (#900 of 2152)

Ydnam96 -- I don't think "let" is anything like the right word. Ginny is, as I type, rounding up the DA and whipping them into shape, learning some really powerful spells, training Grawp, and such.

When Harry is up against a major horde of death eaters, Ginny will come to the rescue on Buckbeak, leading the whole DA on brooms, with Grawp trailing behind, tossing mangled death eaters left and right. Pity the poor death eaters; they won't have a chance.

Then, to show that darned Harry, she will give him a glare and ride off into the night. Harry will have to defeat Voldemort just so he has some time to go look for the love of his life.

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Ginny Weasley Empty Ginny Weasley (Post 901 to 950)

Post  Elanor Wed May 04, 2011 10:35 am

Ana Cis - Sep 11, 2005 1:55 pm (#901 of 2152)
Zen: After the Ecstasy, the laundry.
Edited by Sep 11, 2005 1:56 pm
Soul Search, "Ginny Weasley" #899, 11 Sep 2005 12:14 pm

WOW!!! I LOVE THAT WHOLE SCENE! You go Ginny!

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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 11, 2005 5:28 pm (#902 of 2152)

Soul Search, I can imagine ginyy doing that and Hagrid coming along with Grawp.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 11, 2005 7:38 pm (#903 of 2152)

LOL Soul Search! I agree I don't think Ginny will take no for an answer. I do think she will have to go back to Hogwarts. She still has her parents to contend with. Ron is of age. LPO

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The giant squid - Sep 12, 2005 1:25 am (#904 of 2152)

Will Ginny care that Harry doesn't want her involved and include herself anyway?--Ydnam96

That's exactly how I see it happening. In fact, that's pretty much how I read their "breakup" in HBP. Harry was doing what he thought needed to be done, and Ginny just sat there & let him say it because she already knew what she was going to do and what she was going to let Harry do. Ever since PoA Ginny has been a very straightforward, matter-of-fact person, so the fact that she didn't argue tells me that she didn't think it mattered what Harry thought. Things are going to happen her way.

--Mike

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LooneyLuna - Sep 12, 2005 5:44 am (#905 of 2152)

Let's not forget that Ginny has not 'come of age' either and won't until after Book 7. She's still a minor in the Wizarding World and therefor subject to her parent's wishes. Although I could see her disobeying her parents somewhat, I think she'll be back at Hogwart's if it opens.

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Sparrowhawk - Sep 12, 2005 7:09 am (#906 of 2152)

Which of course drives us back to the question "will Harry go back to Hogwarts?" As I am among those who believe that he will, because he still has quite a lot to learn and there is no other place where he can prepare himself better for what he has to do, I am confident that Ginny will have every opportunity to join in and make things happen her way...

Besides, Hogwarts is the only place where he could get all the help that he'll need - starting with Hermione's advice. Can anyone imagine her playing truant and missing her NEWTS?

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Neville Longbottom - Sep 12, 2005 8:03 am (#907 of 2152)

Yes, I can. And I think it would show Hermione's great growth as a character, if the Headgirl-in-the-making-and-for-sure-completely-outstanding-News-student would skip her final year in Hogwarts to help her friends.

But back to Ginny: I agree that she won't be able to accompany Harry, even if she wants. She's still minor and has to do what Molly wants, in this point. I think she will have an important part to play, but IMO she will be in Hogwarts, while the Trio will be in the field searching for Horcruxes.

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Steve Newton - Sep 12, 2005 8:41 am (#908 of 2152)

Librarian
I don't see Ginny sitting at Hogwarts just because Molly tells her to. Being a minor did not impress the twins and I don't think that it impresses Ginny either.

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LooneyLuna - Sep 12, 2005 11:10 am (#909 of 2152)

But the twins left Hogwarts in their 7th year and were of age. Therein lies the difference. Ginny, whether she likes it or not, is not of age. Granted, that didn't stop her from going to the MoM with the DA, but I can't imagine Ginny tagging along with the Trio, especially since she doesn't know about the Horcruxes.

Will Harry tell her about them?

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Paulus Maximus - Sep 12, 2005 11:39 am (#910 of 2152)

She'll find out, one way or the other. She is too stubborn to do otherwise.

Hermione will tell her even if Harry won't, I think.

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Sparrowhawk - Sep 12, 2005 12:19 pm (#911 of 2152)

You're right, Neville, Hermione could miss her exams to help her friends. However, I guess that I didn't express my thougths precisely enough; what I had in mind was a whole year at Hogwarts, and frankly I can't imagine Hermione renouncing a full year of education, especially since IMO Hogwarts is the best possible place where to start the Horcrux quest... and this means that Ginny won't be left behind (I can also imagine Hermione telling Harry that it would be very unfair on Ginny, whatever his feelings for her, and that she fully deserves a place in the team...)

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irish flutterby - Sep 12, 2005 3:29 pm (#912 of 2152)

I think Harry's point was to keep his distance from her so that LV couldn't catch any obvious signs of a relationship. I think he's wrong. I think Ginny knows it, and I think she'll prove it pretty soon after the book opens. I, too, think that she'll go to Hogwarts, and I think that if Harry doesn't, she'll be a valuable tool for providing information to Harry about what's going on there.

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RoseMorninStar - Sep 12, 2005 6:11 pm (#913 of 2152)

I live in the Shire. It looks a lot like Wisconsin, USA
I think there will be something that will draw Harry to Hogwarts. That is where he will find his 'base' of help. I think Hagrid and his knowledge of creatures will come into play. I think Dumbledore will find some way to continue mentoring Harry... whether it is through his portrait or some other device.

Harry will not stay long at Privet Drive..and there will be some action there... but then on to the Burrow and Bill & Fleur's wedding. Then Harry will go on to Godric's Hollow. I think he will find information there (or perhaps Aunt Petunia knows something) that will eventually lead him back to Hogwarts. I don't think it will be a 'normal' year however. I think there will be warfare conditions and they might be learning some heavy duty defense. Things will not be 'business as usual'at Hogwarts.

Perhaps at some point in the school year Hogwarts will close, or it will be near a 'holiday' and that is when Ginny will be able to join in and help Harry. Or perhaps something will happen at school. I cannot see her quiting...what is Ginny now...14 OR 15?

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Paulus Maximus - Sep 12, 2005 6:15 pm (#914 of 2152)

16 as of book 7.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 12, 2005 7:56 pm (#915 of 2152)

I don't think Hermione will tell Ginny about the Horcruxes. It is vital as few people know about it as possible. Even McGonagall does not know. Ginny is going to help Harry in any way she can. She may resort to getting Fred and George to help her. LPO

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LooneyLuna - Sep 13, 2005 5:46 am (#916 of 2152)

Or Bill. Ginny is close to Bill. And with his curse-breaking experience, he's bound to be able to help Harry.

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Ana Cis - Sep 13, 2005 7:52 pm (#917 of 2152)

Zen: After the Ecstasy, the laundry.
Hey LooneyLuna, I was thinking the same thing! That Bill's experience as curse breaker will come quite handy when searching for Horcruxes.

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RoseMorninStar - Sep 13, 2005 11:27 pm (#918 of 2152)

I live in the Shire. It looks a lot like Wisconsin, USA
Looney Luna...I hadn't thought of that before..great catch!!

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irish flutterby - Sep 14, 2005 12:36 pm (#919 of 2152)

I think we'll see all of the Weasley's and the DA and the Order working together for the cause; though, they may not know exactly what they are doing at the time. Harry may establish unofficial "leaders" in the rebellion that would, whether knowing or not, "report" to him to help him in his cause. Maybe that's what Ginny's role will be.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 14, 2005 3:57 pm (#920 of 2152)

I hope the DA does play a part. It seems to have faded. Ginny could easily take it over. Bill would be great help in searching for and destroying the Horcruxes. LPO

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RoseMorninStar - Sep 14, 2005 4:08 pm (#921 of 2152)

I live in the Shire. It looks a lot like Wisconsin, USA
Irish Flutterby... I am sad to say that I think that almost all of the Weasley's will be hard at work in the Order and the younger members with DA.... all except Percy. I fear Percy will never overcome his self-righteous pig-headedness. He will fall into that catagory of those who are not on the 'bad' side, but will fail to help the 'good' side because of their belief in the bureaucratic crapola and their own swollen egos.

Ginny will be a shining light and vital to Harry. I just noticed something last night when I was re-reading HBP, when Harry walks into Slughorn's classroom for the first time and he smells the amortentia (love) potion. It smells like his favorite 3 things, a treacle tart, the wood on the handle of his broomstick...and a flowery scent that he thinks he has smelled at the Burrow before. That scent turns out to be none other than Ginny!

I wonder what Hermione's 3rd scent was (her first two were freshly mown grass and new parchment).

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irish flutterby - Sep 14, 2005 4:15 pm (#922 of 2152)

I just noticed that about Ginny being Harry's 3rd scent. I think Hermione's 3rd scent would be Ron. Just a guess, though.

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LooneyLuna - Sep 14, 2005 4:15 pm (#923 of 2152)

Ana - great minds, great minds. Smile Thank you, RoseMorninStar.

Ginny seems to be a go-between for Harry and her brothers (except Ron). I think she knows her brothers' strengths and weaknesses. I could see Ginny having Bill look at a certain locket that no one can open. I also see Ginny asking Bill for tips on how to look for signs of magical concealment.

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haymoni - Sep 14, 2005 8:41 pm (#924 of 2152)

Yes - it's pretty clear that Hermione was smelling Ron - but what was the smell???

I think Ginny will be an excellent source for Harry - living with Fred & George HAS taught her that anything is possible. She looks at things with a wider lens than Harry does.

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irish flutterby - Sep 14, 2005 9:35 pm (#925 of 2152)

That comes from Ginny hanging around Fred and George, and Harry hanging around Hermione.

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Weeny Owl - Sep 15, 2005 2:06 pm (#926 of 2152)

I think JKR stuck in Crabbe and Goyle repeating their Defense O.W.L. for a reason... the trio and/or Ginny could very easily miss a year and then repeat it when all is said and done.

Even if Ginny is at Hogwarts for her sixth year, it could be that after Voldemort is defeated, the trio go back to Hogwarts and are in seventh year with Ginny.

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It's Tonks - Sep 15, 2005 9:53 pm (#927 of 2152)

Ok, now I know I'm really grasping at straws but....what if Harry, Ron and Hermoine didn't go back next year but they all survive the battle against LV and actually do their 7th and final year at Hogwarts the following year. That would mean we would get 8 books!!! Yeah!! I seem to remember JKR saying that she is writing about Harry's 7 years at Hogwarts but she didn't say they had to be consecutive, did she? I know, I know, I've lost my mind --- but what the heck, doesn't hurt to dream, does it? Imagine the last book where Harry gets to be a regular kid without LV hanging over his head and all the loose ends would be tied up and all our questions answered. Ahhhhhhh, wishfull thinking.

I know it's not very likely, and actually it's just about guaranteed not to happen but I thought I'd throw it out there! Guess I had one to many butterbeers tonight. LOL

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Weeny Owl - Sep 16, 2005 2:54 am (#928 of 2152)

I wasn't thinking eight books; I was thinking it would be part of the epilogue with just a short explanation along with what careers they choose and who marries whom, etc.

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Solitaire - Sep 16, 2005 10:40 am (#929 of 2152)

I hope the DA does play a part. It seems to have faded.

I honestly think this happened for a couple of reasons. First, the Ministry has openly acknowledged that Voldemort is active again. In addition, Snape was actually teaching them useful DADA techniques, so that was no longer an issue. Finally, most of Harry's "free" time seems to have been taken up working with Quidditch and Dumbledore. There wasn't really much time for the DA.

Now that everyone knows the "Nibblers" (and at least one student DE) were actively working in Voldemort's service right in Hogwarts, it is possible that the DA will be seen as a critical element in the fight, and they will be re-established in book 7. I hope.

Solitaire

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The giant squid - Sep 16, 2005 4:00 pm (#930 of 2152)

I agree Weeny owl...even if they did go back and finish things out in "year 8", it'd just be them going to school--no exciting battles, no dark wizards lurking in the shadows... Who wants to read that?

Well, okay, we do. But seriously, it's not something you can hang a whole book on without causing revolts among the muggles. I'd be satisfied with a blurb at the end.

--Mike

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Solitaire - Sep 17, 2005 9:42 am (#931 of 2152)

Surely, if the kids are able to do battle with and bring down Voldemort and his DE regime, they would be granted honorary Hogwarts graduate status, even if they did miss their NEWTs and part of their last year. Such a feat would indicate that they are able to hold their own in the Wizarding World and can apply the things they have learned to real life situations. Sort of a Wizarding GED, perhaps ...?

Solitaire

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Chemyst - Sep 17, 2005 12:48 pm (#932 of 2152)

"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
For international forum members who may not know, the initials GED have two related meanings. One is for the General Educational Development testing service. The other stands for General Education Diploma, which is what you get if you pass the tests. It is a is a substitute for a high school diploma, but often carries with it the stigma of having been a dropout.

So while I can see the analogy Solitaire has drawn, I have mixed feelings about it. JKR has already allowed Ginny's brothers to drop out of their higher education, (but they did complete their OWLs.) I liked the acknowledgement that entrepreneurship involves taking some risks and that there is more to life than school. On the other hand, I can't see JKR letting the entire Trio (+ Ginny?) skive off school permanently.

We may need to take the subject to another thread because the question is bigger than Ginny's OWLs, but I can't imagine what a fuss folks would be in if they thought the Harry Potter books promoted dropping out of school! And earned degrees usually count for more than honorary ones.

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Solitaire - Sep 18, 2005 10:14 am (#933 of 2152)

As a teacher, Chemyst, I hardly support their dropping out of school either. Also, just because Harry said he is not coming back does not mean it will be so. A lot of what he is saying is (IMO) surely provoked by shock, betrayal, anger, and a whole bag of other mixed up and warring feelings inside.

As for Ginny and Ron, I cannot see Mrs. W letting them blow off Hogwarts, assuming it remains open. It is possible, I suppose, that it will not reopen until the Voldemort/Harry issue is resolved ... at which time everyone may pick up where they left off. Still, I can't imagine that happening. After all, Dumbledore has a great communication tool at Hogwarts--his portrait! Surely Harry will need to consult it.

Solitaire

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RoseMorninStar - Sep 18, 2005 7:29 pm (#934 of 2152)

I live in the Shire. It looks a lot like Wisconsin, USA
We must keep in mind that Dumbledore has predicted the end of Hogwarts, according to Minerva McGonagall in CS 16. I don't think we know exactly what or when he felt the end of it would come, but didn't he also say that something like, (I couldn't find the exact quote): 'Help will always be found at Hogwarts so long as there are still those loyal to me here.'

So, what does that say about the future of Hogwarts? What does that say about the future of the students (such as Ginny or Harry or Ron & Hermione)? It could be that there will be no 'next year' due to the shock of Dumbledore's death in the Wizarding World? The W.W. will also be at war. Perhaps Hogwarts will close and when it re-opens it will be a new era.

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Honour - Sep 30, 2005 6:31 am (#935 of 2152)

I posted this thought on the tread about the internal relationships between our trio - and I think it should be put here also ...

it seems by general contention that we agree that powerful magic leaves a some sort of "trail" or "trace" of its presence. So I have been wondering that when Tom/Voldermort possessed Ginny via the diary, and that as a very powerful and evil wizard, wouldn't some of that residue evil be left in Ginny, and I wondered if perhaps "in the end" would Ginny be the hidden threat not only to Harry's heart but to his life?

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Paulus Maximus - Sep 30, 2005 6:58 am (#936 of 2152)

JKR has said that Ginny isn't a Parselmouth, or a Horcrux. I'm pretty sure that there's nothing of Voldemort left in her.

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Honour - Sep 30, 2005 7:16 am (#937 of 2152)

Hi there Paulus Maximus, maybe I didn't make myself clear, I don't think that the essence or trace of Voldermorts magic would actually be something as easily identifiable as being able to speak and understand Parselmouth, I don't even believe that Ginny is a Horcrux. If I had to pin down what I think the 'evil essence' might be, it would be either like Harry's scar, maybe Ginny could sense when and if Voldermort is close by or (as he has been proved in the past, a creature of habit/repitition), that he Voldermort, could used legilimency on Ginny and find out initially what is going on at the Weasleys, Hogwarts, and eventually tap into her feelings about Harry and use her again like he did in COS?

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haymoni - Sep 30, 2005 7:19 am (#938 of 2152)

Dumbledore says that magic leaves a trace or something when they are in the cave, but we don't really know what Dumbledore can "see".

Maybe since Ginny was possessed by Voldy for long periods of time, she will be able to sense his "magic trail" for Harry.

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Solitaire - Sep 30, 2005 9:38 am (#939 of 2152)

Honour, I've worried about Ginny, as well. Although Dumbledore said something like there would be no lasting harm to Ginny from the possession, I can't help wondering if something from that experience will play into the plot in book 7.

Having seen the chaos that ensued when she kept things to herself in CoS--as well as what happened because Harry was not really forthcoming about Voldemort's mind invations in OotP--I believe that if she began to feel something was wrong or she was being manipulated by Voldemort, she would probably speak up to someone. At least, I hope she would.

Solitaire

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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 30, 2005 11:18 am (#940 of 2152)

This line of reasoning reminded me of an imcident that occurred in OotP there is a scene when they are cleaning 12 GP and the come across the enchanted music box that hypnotizes everyone and the only one with the will and strength to break the charm is Ginny.

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RoseMorninStar - Sep 30, 2005 11:31 am (#941 of 2152)

I live in the Shire. It looks a lot like Wisconsin, USA
From JKR's July 2005 Melissa/Emerson interview:

MA: Someone put it to me last night, that if Ginny, with the diary -

JKR: Harry definitely destroyed that piece of soul, you saw it take shape, you saw it destroyed, it’s gone. And Ginny is definitely in no way possessed by Voldemort.

MA: Is she still a parselmouth?

JKR: No.

I think JKR means to stop any line of 'unprofitable' thinking that Ginny has continued to be affected (other than memories) by Voldemorts possession of her. I also think Dumbledore would have checked her for any lingering traces of strong magic. JKR has also said that Ginny is a very special witch because she is the 7th daughter of the 7th daughter and the first girl born to the Weasley family in generations. She is 'gutsy' and someone that will be equal to the demands of someone who will be with Harry.

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haymoni - Sep 30, 2005 11:31 am (#942 of 2152)

Ginny is a very logical person. Sometimes I think she is the only one with any common sense.

Scary if she got that from Voldy, though!

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Ana Cis - Sep 30, 2005 5:29 pm (#943 of 2152)

Zen: After the Ecstasy, the laundry.
Edited by Sep 30, 2005 5:30 pm
I believe that her experience in COS made her be more in "the present/the now" therefore she's more aware of what's going around her. She doesn't allow herself to get caught in a trap like the others. Maybe its part of gift as SEER, seeing through magical traps or magical traces;her prior experience may have strengthened that gift. We see that lot in the last few chapters. She's the one that notices the phoenix's lament, and also notices the merpeople and shows them to Harry.

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Honour - Sep 30, 2005 5:51 pm (#944 of 2152)

Fine, we agree that Ginny is not a parselmouth nor a horcrux and via the interview and JKR's statement of Ginny not still (presently) being possessed by Voldermort has also been made clear, I would like your opinions on the following:

If Harry's initial contact with Voldermort of an AK curse going awry resulted in Harry's scar, and years later, a reciprocal doorway that both Harry and Voldermort had been able to use to access each others thought-feelings, until HBP whereby Voldermorts practise of occlumency is blocking said 'doorway' - Wouldn't body possession in effect leave a larger pool of 'magic trail' and be a better portal for Voldermort to return through the same means as he used when accessing Harry? Especially now that he would know that the Weasley family are practically all part of the Order, are close with Harry, have 2 members who work at MOM?

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haymoni - Sep 30, 2005 8:26 pm (#945 of 2152)

Yeah - good thing Harry dumped Ginny. She was a goner for sure.

I wonder about the Weasleys being out in the middle of nowhere like that. If the Diggorys and the Lovegoods are the only wizards around, there aren't too many folks available to come to their aid if they need them.

Molly could be giving her "Mollywobbles" signal all day and nobody would know if she was OK or not!

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Honour - Sep 30, 2005 8:52 pm (#946 of 2152)

And again, I think mayhaps I have not explained myself properly ... I think that in order for book 7 to be the last installment and for readers to come away from this wonderful story feeling satisfied the niggling inconsistencies have to be addressed.

I don't think Ginny is a 'goner' Haymoni, infact because of her strong character, I would think that she could achieve where Harry failed, learning both legilemency and occulemency, and maybe once she has been tutored, could assist Harry by tapping into her 'doorway' to Voldermort to give Harry and the Order, the heads-up they may need to finally overcome Voldermort. Maybe Ginny is the 'secret weapon' for the Order?

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haymoni - Sep 30, 2005 9:08 pm (#947 of 2152)

No - I meant that everyone that Harry loves seems to die. If he kept Ginny too close, she would have been a liability. That's his reason for ending the "relationship". He has to go on the quest alone. She would be a distraction or could be used against him.

It isn't a slam on her abilities. It's just like Harry having to get the Stone himself - Ron knew it - Harry had to get it.

Don't get me wrong, though. Ginny isn't going to be sitting around filing her nails or dating Dean while Harry is off hunting Horcruxes. She'll be there for him, but I don't know that she'll be involved in such a big way.

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Solitaire - Sep 30, 2005 9:24 pm (#948 of 2152)

pool of 'magic trail'

Where does this idea come from? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

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Honour - Oct 1, 2005 1:21 am (#949 of 2152)

Hey there Haymoni I know your comments were not a bad reflection on Ginny's character, for my own er, protection(?) I thought I would clarify my train of thought before the Ginny fan club cast bat bogey hexes in my direction ...

Solitaire ... 'pool of magic trail' put that down to my attempt at poetic license. I figured that if Harry's scar was the result of a curse cast by Voldermort and that years after this event Voldermort was able to access Harry's thought-feelings via the scar, that compared to total body possesion the magical trace left by such a powerful magician would be larger(?) i.e. bigger than a sprinkle, but smaller than a rainstorm ... This is just an example of what I would think the logical process would follow, but, I have since read that in a previous post (can't remember at the mo - will try and find) that the WW did not think logically (I paraphrase) - Logic seems to be a muggle trait?

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Ana Cis - Oct 1, 2005 5:24 am (#950 of 2152)

Zen: After the Ecstasy, the laundry.
Honour, I understand your point about their being magical traces on Ginny that LV could pick up to try to possess her. Although, Lucius might have told LV what happened to Ginny when Lucius lost the diary, neither of them knows what actually happened. There's a good probability the LV wouldn't be interested in looking for magical traces. As Haymoni said, if Harry hadn't broken off their relationship, she'd be a goner; and then there be a high probability that LV would show interest in finding a way to use her to get to Harry. One more point, when Harry destroyed the diary and the soul contained within it, he may have also destroyed any magical traces. That may be the logic that JKR is following when she says that there's no trace left of LV's soul on Ginny (paraphrasing); thus closing any inconsistencies on the story.

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Chemyst - Oct 1, 2005 5:39 am (#951 of 2152)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Thanks for explaining that about the scar, Honour. I'd thought it was a reference to the sort of residual trail DD could sense in the cave that helped him launch the boat. From the interviews JKR has given, I don't think Ginny was "marked" - even remotely - in the way Harry was. It's a cool idea; but for some other story.

The 'wizards are poor in logic' thing comes from PS16 when Hermione sees the room with the bottles. "Brilliant," said Hermione, "This isn't magic – it's logic – a puzzle. A lot of the greatest wizards haven't got an ounce of logic, they'd be stuck in here forever."

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Honour - Oct 1, 2005 6:06 am (#952 of 2152)

Thank you both Ana Cis and Chemyst, back to the drawing board I guess... though I must say formulating theories based on a few canon facts, then expanding on those theories with a little bit of this and a smidgion of that is really great fun Smile

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haymoni - Oct 1, 2005 5:28 pm (#953 of 2152)

Well, we've certainly got enough time on our hands - that's for sure!

We need something to do for the next 2 years or so!

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Verbina - Oct 2, 2005 3:40 pm (#954 of 2152)

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I have a question though concerning the idea of dropping otu of school. Here in the U.S., what teh Weasly twins did would be comparable to dropping out but I asked some friends of mine from England about the school system there. It would seem that, in England, what they did is not considered dropping out at all. They were free at that time to choose if they wanted to continue their education or go out in the world to join the work force. Just wanted to point that out.

Ginny is far too stubborn to just let it be. In fact, Harry is very likely going to stay at the Burrow for a while before the school term begins due to the wedding of Bill and Fleur. Which means that once again, Harry will be in close contact with Ginny on a daily basis. This will be extremely difficult for Harry I would think. So he will be forced by his decision at the funeral of Dumbledore, to leave the Burrow for another place to stay. But his choices would be slim and most would include Ginny being nearby.

If he goes to Hogwarts, Ginny would be there for school.

If he were to go to Grimmauld Place, Ginny knows of the place having been there herself. Also Molly, being the way she is, would insist on checking on Harry in some way or even staying there with him to ensure his safety. If that is the case, Molly would also insist that her youngest child be with her in these uncertain times.

And Godric's Hollow...if Arthur and Molly are made aware of Harry's intention to go there, I would not be in the least surprised if the Weasly's would insist on going with him as support and protection. Again, in these rough times, Molly would insist on Ginny being close by her.

So...no matter where Harry would go, it is highly likely that Ginny would be there as well. *smirk* Having a teenage son myself, it will be interesting to see how Harry attempts to keep himself from Ginny.

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RoseMorninStar - Oct 2, 2005 6:14 pm (#955 of 2152)

I live in the Shire. It looks a lot like Wisconsin, USA
Can you keep a magnet from metal? LOL Verbina. Yeah, I think the, dare I say it?, *ahem* sexual tension could be rather much in the next book. I know JKR does not consider having written her book for 'children' or that it is a 'children's book' but many other people do consider it to be. Ginny & Harry never said they couldn't be friends or be close...they'll just knock off the snogging and get down to business. I meant the business of defeating Voldemort. What were YOU thinking!!

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Verbina - Oct 2, 2005 10:16 pm (#956 of 2152)

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And that tension...you just know it is going to add some things to scenarios. Harry will be watching her and day dreaming instead of paying attention at the wedding.

Oh! I just thought of something as well. Fleur and Bill's wedding could be very very interesting! Fleur is fond of Harry because of his saving her sister in the lake in GoF. She said her sister speaks of him often (though I may be wrong about that...no book to confirm it) As it is a wedding, Fleur's sister is bound to be there...perhaps with a crush on dear Harry. Then toss in the fact that Fleur is part Vela and so it would follow that her sister is as well... well...you can imagine what I am thinking of that could happen. Harry winds up with Fleur's little sister fauning all over him and Ginny explodes at the poor girl. I mean, I can see that happening!

Yep, that tension between the two of them...it was interesting to see the tension in Harry as time went on in HBP but in the next book...it should be very pronounced indeed!

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irish flutterby - Oct 3, 2005 6:32 am (#957 of 2152)

Ginny would lose it. Ron will say something abnoxious like, "You let him go. He's got a right to do what he wants to now." Followed by a stupid grin and, "I think she's nice." as Gabrielle breezes past.

Suppose Lily's blood protects Harry frompart-vela girls, too. He never seemed to ogle over Fluer the way Ron did.

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Solitaire - Oct 3, 2005 10:36 am (#958 of 2152)

If Gabrielle was indeed only eight, as Harry thought she looked at the time of the Tournament, then she would still be far too young to serve as a rival to Ginny.

Solitaire

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irish flutterby - Oct 3, 2005 11:02 am (#959 of 2152)

I agreee, but an eleven year old girl might not realize that, and I'm not sure how Harry would deal with a veela hagning on him. If she indeed were to try and woo Harry, he'd be uncomfortable, but he might not know exactly how to delicately turn her aside. Ginny might actually get annoyed for Harry not telling her off right away. If Harry tries to be gentle, and she doesn't get it, she may face the wrath of a Weasley woman.

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Verbina - Oct 3, 2005 9:49 pm (#960 of 2152)

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Ginny was about 10 or 11 when she developed her crush on Harry. We have to keep that in mind. And who knows how "mature" Gabrielle is. She is possibly at the stage where she is playing around with the veela abilities and who knows what could happen!

Harry didn't ogle over Fleur as much true but he was a bit distracted by Cho during the tournament and later, Fleur did unsettle him a little. He did react to the veelas at the QWC but then again they were full veela.

I'm not saying that Harry would be attracted to Gabrielle. He would more than likely think of her as just a kid. But the reaction of Ginny would be very interesting. After all, she was watching Harry pretty closely at the Burrow while Fleur was there. At least, when they were in Harry's room, it seemed like she was watching him, ready to bonk him one if he said the wrong thing.

Nope, there is no way that Ginny is going to just fade away into the bakcground. She never gave up on him before, though she made a good show of it. I see no reason for her to do so now. Especially with the wedding coming up...you know that Ginny is going to dressed up for the occassion, if she is not part of the wedding party that is. Either way, I get the feeling it is going to be difficult for Harry to keep his eyes off of her on that day.

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RoseMorninStar - Oct 3, 2005 10:01 pm (#961 of 2152)

I live in the Shire. It looks a lot like Wisconsin, USA
I have the funny feeling that Ginny is more than confident in where she stands with Harry. I don't know why, exactly, they both (Harry & Ginny) just seem more like the logical type that are so grounded that it won't even be a question. I think Harry & Ginny will come off like a team. Effortlessly. They are meant to be and I don't think JKR will want to throw any doubt in the mix. They are.

Ron on the otherhand....

..... and Gabrielle, not to mention Hermione and Krum... is another story. I think that will have to be left to how much time JKR has to 'play' in her last book Ron just has a little more growing up to do than Harry does. I think we can see a single-mindedness in Harry that when he decides upon something he doesn't let it go (like tracking Malfoy). He has made his mind up about Ginny. And Ginny about Harry. I don't think there will be any games.

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haymoni - Oct 4, 2005 5:40 am (#962 of 2152)

When Ginny is with the Trio and Fred & George, hanging out in the Burrow, I can see her as the younger sister, 15 years old.

When she is with Harry, they both suddenly seem 18 or 19.

Do I need to go to St. Mungo's or what?

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Mrs Brisbee - Oct 4, 2005 6:43 am (#963 of 2152)

When Ginny is with the Trio and Fred & George, hanging out in the Burrow, I can see her as the younger sister, 15 years old.

When she is with Harry, they both suddenly seem 18 or 19.

Do I need to go to St. Mungo's or what? --haymoni

Check me in, too.

I always thought Harry and Ginny would get together at the very end, maybe with Harry asking her out in the last chapter of Book 7.

I'm having a hard time with adult love at fifteen and sixteen, when both of them still have some maturing to do. I suppose it happens occasionally, but it is hard to reconcile the image of them doing immature teenage stuff with the idea of mature True Love in the same book.

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Verbina - Oct 4, 2005 10:22 pm (#964 of 2152)

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Adult love at 15 or 16...while it is rare it does happen. I've seen it several times in my life with family and friends. But at first, yes, the thinking is they are too young.

We do have to keep in mind that since Ginny's experience with Voldemort in CoS, she isn't exactly the silly little girl anymore. Not entirly anyway. Yes she still does silly things but...then again, so do I. haha

And Harry, we all know that Harry has had to grow up pretty fast and he is more mature than Ron in many ways.

What I am tryign to figure out is how on earth Ginny is going to convince Harry to allow her to help out? Will he agree simply to be able to be around her? Or will she get sneaky about it?

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Solitaire - Oct 4, 2005 10:24 pm (#965 of 2152)

Ginny was 10 and Harry was 11, which is a bit different than 10 and 16. Given Ginny's attitude toward Fleur, she will probably be ticked at Gabrielle just for being around ... because she is Fleur's sister. She won't really need any further provocation.

Solitaire
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The giant squid - Oct 4, 2005 11:38 pm (#966 of 2152)

Ginny & Harry have both matured a lot over the last few years. I have no problem believing in "adult love" (whatever that's supopsed to mean) in their case. With most 15/16 year olds, no, but these two are not "most" kids.

--Mike

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Ana Cis - Oct 5, 2005 6:25 am (#967 of 2152)

Zen: After the Ecstasy, the laundry.
Of course having a serious relationship at 16 and 15 is not the most realistic situation, neither is magic, wizards, or Harry going through some of the most traumatic events in any person's life. However, this is the Wizarding World where you become of age at 17. Arthur and Molly were sweethearts while at Hogwarts. So did Harry's parents. This relationship doesn't need justification. We need to look at it from JKR's perspective, not today's real world.

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haymoni - Oct 5, 2005 6:56 am (#968 of 2152)

What I meant was that in most scenes Ginny & Harry act their ages, but the kiss scene, the break up scene - even Ginny being the one to take Harry away from Dumbledore, they seem to be much older.

Goes back to her bed at St. Mungo's....

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Ana Cis - Oct 5, 2005 7:08 am (#969 of 2152)

Zen: After the Ecstasy, the laundry.
Edited by Oct 5, 2005 7:13 am
I agree with you that they seem much older. All I'm saying is that in JKR's WW, she's purposely presenting them that way. Your viewpoint confirms what JKR point. That except for Ron, the rest of them had matured quite a bit. She saw Ron as too immature yet, and used the Ron/Lavender situation to make Ron grow up emotionally and sort of catch up with the rest of the group.

Haymoni, your right on the money. You don't neet to check into St Mungo's, but maybe I do. I feel like I'm getting the flu.

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pottermom34 - Oct 5, 2005 7:28 am (#970 of 2152)

Harry hasn't had much choice in the maturing thing any way, with all the trauma in his life he's kind of been forced to grow up.

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irish flutterby - Oct 5, 2005 1:41 pm (#971 of 2152)

I hope Finn doesn't mind me using him as an example. On another thread ("you know you're a Potter/Lexicon fan when", I think) Finn revealed that he's only 13. Most of us agree that on the forum he doesn't sound like it. I think there are a lot of teenagers who have the capacity to think in a more mature fashion, then there are some who just don't get it. No, that doesn't mean the ones who are more mature are grown up and ready to start their lives "in the real world" out from under other supervision and accountablility. But, they may be capable of recognizing the truth of their emotions, able to make common sense judgements based on deductive reasoning, and carry out great feats that might be unatainable to others their age.

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Ydnam96 - Oct 7, 2005 9:52 am (#972 of 2152)

Well...I would say I agree that I find it hard to take seriously any high school romances in today's society; at least in the sense that they will be life-long committments. But then I think about the fact that my parents started dating when they were in high school (mom a sophmore and dad a junior) and they are still married 30 years later...

I think Ginny is a pretty strong capable girl and will have no trouble handeling anything that stands in her way. Whether it's someone standing between her and Harry or really anything. She's pretty headstrong. (I kind of see her as a young Sydney Bristow from Alias. Don't mess with her!)

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Verbina - Oct 7, 2005 10:54 pm (#973 of 2152)

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Ydnam96 - Have to agree with you on what you said about Ginny. After all those years with all those brothers...she is not a girl to mess with.

As for romances young in life, I also know of many that began in high school, several being classmates of mine! All still very happily married. Not to mention a couple I know that met in elementary school and recently celebrated their 51st wedding anniversary. Guess romance at any age is a gamble.

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The giant squid - Oct 8, 2005 1:47 am (#974 of 2152)

I think it's safe to say that JKR falls into the "hopeless romantic" category, so having someone end up with his "high school sweetheart" wouldn't be beyond her scope. Does that seem likely with kids the way they are today? not really, but that's why HP is considered "fantasy".

--Mike

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frogface - Oct 8, 2005 2:41 am (#975 of 2152)

I have to say that in the magical world it does seem more common for couples to form serious relationships at younger ages. Even though they generally live for longer! By the time James and Lily died they were only around 21, but they were already married with a child. I'm not entirely sure how old Bill is, but we all know that Fleur hasn't been long out of school and already they is getting married. Arthur and Molly Weasley were an item in school as well. I'll grant you that Lupin and Tonks are a bit of an exception, but I imagine its quite hard for a werewolf to get dates! And being an Auror is a busy job so maybe Tonks just hasn't had much time to form relationships since she left school.

So anyway, it doesn't really seem that strange that Ginny and Harry have formed this relationship early in their lives. I suppose it could have something to do with living through times of war as well.

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Mrs Brisbee - Oct 8, 2005 7:36 am (#976 of 2152)

Well, okay, sometimes true love happens early. I just had a hard time with it because they are all still growing and maturing at a rapid pace, and still occasionally doing Stupid Teenager Things.

It does make an interesting mirror image with Tom Riddle, though. At 16 he was murdering people, not falling in love. I guess it shows the different capacities of the Good and Evil Guys' characters.

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irish flutterby - Oct 8, 2005 2:04 pm (#977 of 2152)

"I just had a hard time with it because they are all still growing and maturing at a rapid pace, and still occasionally doing Stupid Teenager Things. "

True, but I'm 25, married and have two kids and I'm still changing and maturing rapidly, and doing Stupid Adult things, which, I think, often leads to bigger trouble!

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Solitaire - Oct 8, 2005 2:57 pm (#978 of 2152)

Kids in the wizarding world have a much smaller "dating pool" than those in the Muggle world, if they wish to marry witches and wizards. They also seem to mature faster in some ways. Harry has faced violent life-or-death situations repeatedly since entering the magical world, and Ginny had a brush with death at a young age, as well. It is likely that Harry and Ginny (if both survive) will marry at an early age, just as James and Lily did.

BTW, Finn, I agree with Irish. You do not sound like the average thirteen-year-old. You certainly do not express yourself like the majority of the young teens who have passed through my language arts classes over the past 15 years. I was very surprised to learn that you are thirteen.

Solitaire

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RoseMorninStar - Oct 8, 2005 3:22 pm (#979 of 2152)

I live in the Shire. It looks a lot like Wisconsin, USA
Current studies show that those who meet at a younger age tend to have longer lived marriages. The reasoning for this is supposed to be because they meet because they have many things in common and enjoy one another's company and as people get older more judgements come into play. Things like, 'What do you do for a living?' and things that are perhaps a bit more outside of the realm of simply enjoying each others company on a very personal level.

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tamerlane - Oct 12, 2005 1:36 pm (#980 of 2152)

It is not the age of a person that determines the capability to love. Many 40 year olds still have a hard time truly loving someone. The hard part about young love is that there are so many life choices left to make. Such as if and where to go to collage. What kind of life you want to live and where you want to live it. Most 30 year olds have already made many of these choices so they do not present a barrier to love. Most sixteen year olds don't know what there summer plans will be. This is when young love fails. Different choices leads to "out of sight, out of mind."

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Verbina - Oct 12, 2005 6:28 pm (#981 of 2152)

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But with Ginny and Harry, would it really be out of sight? Harry is close to Ron and his family. He is invited to the wedding. Ginny is part of their circle of friends. She will never really be out of sight and not very often out of mind I think.

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Honour - Oct 16, 2005 1:31 pm (#982 of 2152)

I hope for her sake that she is more 'out of mind', we would hate for Voldermort to be able to sense this information and use it against Harry...

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M A Grimmett - Oct 16, 2005 1:43 pm (#983 of 2152)

I'm sure that with Draco in the DE fold, there's nothing that he knows about Harry--including his romance with Ginny--that LV doesn't know by now.

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Honour - Oct 16, 2005 1:49 pm (#984 of 2152)

I agree M A Grimmett, which means that Voldermort (JKR) must surely take advantage of this information, ooh the sub plot possibilites could be v-e-r-y interesting.

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Mrs. Sirius - Oct 18, 2005 9:56 pm (#985 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Yes in this wizarding world people do get together in permanent relationships at a rather younger age then our supposed "real" world.

But somewhere in an early interview with JKR, she states that her parents were married young and had a child (her) by the time they were the age of James and Lily.

Ginny and Harry have had a "relationship" since before HBP in a sense. Harry knew that Ginny had a major crush on him since he was 12 and she 11. However he dealt with it, it was still some form of a relationship.

My husband and I did not marry when for many years after we met. WE lived in different addresses, towns, states throughout. The relationship was stronger because we both had things to do on our own before we could get together.

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CatherineHermiona - Nov 2, 2005 1:24 pm (#986 of 2152)

My drawing... LOL
Wasn't Ginny on 5th year in HBP? She is supposed to make OWLs at 5th year. Has she done it?

Kate

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Finn BV - Nov 2, 2005 4:04 pm (#987 of 2152)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Yes, Kate, Ginny should have taken her OWLs in HBP but there was no mention of it. The school was slightly preoccupied… perhaps we will find out her scores in Book 7.

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Liessie - Nov 2, 2005 6:33 pm (#988 of 2152)

In the last chapter it was mentioned that the examinations were all postponed, but not to when. If the last book starts where HBP finishes then we may get to know if Ginny (or anyone else) will ever need to take OWLs. If the school is closed for good (which I hope not and I doubt) then will OWLs need to continue - or will they be something done at the MoM like apparating?

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Verbina - Nov 2, 2005 10:35 pm (#989 of 2152)

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I also recall something about Ginny studying like crazy and that it kept her and Harry apart for a bit. Though I may be thinking of something else of course.

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Tazzygirl - Nov 2, 2005 11:25 pm (#990 of 2152)

Uluru/Ayer's Rock glowing in the morning sun
Ginny was studying like crazy- Hermione kept giving Harry looks whenever he and Ginny got sidetracked. Smile That Hermione... >shaking head< Smile

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Mrs. Sirius - Nov 3, 2005 7:58 am (#991 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
It is mentioned quickly before Harry goes with DD that Ginny's OWLS are over. I'll find the quote.

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Finn BV - Nov 3, 2005 2:52 pm (#992 of 2152)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Whoopsies. Knew I was wrong to say that without consulting the book.

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Verbina - Nov 3, 2005 11:48 pm (#993 of 2152)

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That time period does go by so quickly in the book...I wanted it to last just a little longer for the two of them. (I know...I'm an old softy.)

It makes one wonder though...what sort of thing is Ginny looking at going into?

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Mrs. Sirius - Nov 4, 2005 9:08 am (#994 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Oh, ohh I may have made it up! the only references to the impending OWLS I can find is in "The Seer Overheard"

"Ginny's O.W.L.S. were approaching..." and later in the same chapter

""...distracting Ginny when she ought to be working hard for her examinations."

As this is the chapter just before Harry goes with DD to the cave, I am beginning to doubt that there will be more mention of school activity. Although, there is a time lapse of a few weeks indicated later in this same chapter.

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Ace Potter - Nov 5, 2005 10:01 am (#995 of 2152)

Wouldn't it be great if harry and ginny stayed together and later on get married!!

I mean Harry is famous but if they had a child, then famous would not be enough to descride the child.

Daily Prophet Headline

Child of chosen one and the seer is born!!!!!!

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Paulus Maximus - Nov 6, 2005 5:09 pm (#996 of 2152)

Ginny isn't a seer, is she?

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Finn BV - Nov 6, 2005 5:58 pm (#997 of 2152)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Oh dear, I hope not. That would throw a wrench in the works.

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Ydnam96 - Nov 6, 2005 11:13 pm (#998 of 2152)

I have heard the rumor of Ron being a seer, but not of Ginny...that would be interesting.

I think she's just got a lot of common sense.

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Ace Potter - Nov 12, 2005 11:07 am (#999 of 2152)

I think i read a few posts back about someone mentioning that the seventh chld of the seventh child is either a seer or something else.

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The giant squid - Nov 12, 2005 4:01 pm (#1000 of 2152)

Because Ginny is the seventh Weasley child, a slew of theories involving the seventh child of a seventh child being a healer or seer have popped up. There's no canon evidence for either of them...but that's never stopped us before.

--mike

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Aqualu Nifey - Nov 12, 2005 5:38 pm (#1001 of 2152)
"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause." - Padme Amidala-Skywalker
I seriously, seriously doubt that Harry and Ginny will have time to marry or have children. Harry, at least, doesn't even have time to go out with Ginny. As much as I love Ginny and Harry together, I don't think they'll have time for a whole lot until Harry's big confrontation with Voldemort - if he makes it out alive.

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RoseMorninStar - Nov 13, 2005 1:44 am (#1002 of 2152)

I live in the Shire. It looks a lot like Wisconsin, USA
While it is true that Harry will probably have little time for romance, and JKR has a great many things to be getting on with in book 7, I do believe she has said she would be writing an epilogue. So, if not in detail, I think we shall find out what becomes of Harry and Ginny.

As far as the '7th daughter of a 7th daughter' goes, I read a tale that they are said to be 'fey' or witches!!! So, no surprise there! They are also said to be healers, one tale being of a woman by the name of Amelia Woodcock of Wing, Leicestershire.

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Chemyst - Nov 15, 2005 5:32 am (#1003 of 2152)

"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
...theories involving the seventh child of a seventh child being a healer or seer have popped up. There's no canon evidence for either of them...but that's never stopped us before.

True, and what has added fuel to the fire of speculation was JKR's comment during the TLC/Mug'net interview, 3rd section:
"The backstory with Ginny was, she was the first girl to arrive in the Weasley family in generations, but there's that old tradition of the seventh daughter of a seventh daughter and a seventh son of a seventh son, so that's why she's the seventh, because she is a gifted witch. I think you get hints of that, because she does some pretty impressive stuff here and there, and you'll see that again."
...maybe not canon, but close. The quote could just as easily support a speculation in which Ginny and Harry have six daughters before their seventh child comes as Harry Junior.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for Ginny taking OWLs, the first sentence in Chapter 30, The White Tomb, reads: "All lessons were suspended, all examinations postponed."
That immediately follows the ending of the phoenix's song. I interpret that "all" as including OWLs.

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haymoni - Nov 22, 2005 10:53 am (#1004 of 2152)

Ginny has red hair - she reminds me of Lily.

I wonder how Snape treats her?

Do we see any interaction between Snape and Ginny?

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Solitaire - Nov 22, 2005 11:15 am (#1005 of 2152)

Interesting question, haymoni! I'd like to know that, as well.

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Cassiopeia - Nov 22, 2005 1:03 pm (#1006 of 2152)

I've wondered that as well, especially after she started dating Harry...

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Wizadora - Nov 22, 2005 1:31 pm (#1007 of 2152)

That's how I knew they would end up together. Hermonie has been described in the same ways as Molly Weasley which tipped me off that her and Ron were meant to be together.

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Honour - Nov 22, 2005 6:29 pm (#1008 of 2152)

That's always been an annoying point for me, (only my own view - so no dung bombs please!) that the Ginny character has been especially written to remind readers/Harry of Lily ... physically (red hair), "being a gifted witch" (her claim to fame the bat bogey hex), and her loyalty, there has even been comment that Ginny was er... popular just like Lily (as popular with the boys as Ginny? or popular in some other way?) .... But thats fine too, but please people! Hermione being described in the same ways as Molly Weasley? The only reason that Ron and Hermione, like Harry and Ginny are "meant to be together" is because JKR deems it so ... This is my pet hate in this whole series, the rest of the story more than compensates for my diappointment in these match-ups ... and no, I didn't have a point really, was just having a rant!:-)

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haymoni - Nov 23, 2005 6:20 am (#1009 of 2152)

I think there are plenty of men out there that have married women that are like their moms. I can see the similarities between myself & my mother-in-law. Only the good things of course!!!

Maybe they are not the same in EVERY way, but there was something there that is familiar, so they are drawn to them.

I can really see Harry being drawn to Ginny. All he has is a picture of his mother, so he might gravitate to someone who looks like her.

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Wizadora - Nov 23, 2005 8:56 am (#1010 of 2152)

Harry is drawn to Ginny because she is what he needs. Someone fun, down to earth, adventurous and talented. The same goes for Ron and Hermione

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Verbina - Nov 23, 2005 10:41 pm (#1011 of 2152)

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Haymoni - Have to agree with you on that point about men marrying women similar to their mothers. It's not a conscience decision of course as that would be disturbing to say the least. But a guys mother is the first female he has close contact with and that has a lasting effect on them. Much the same as women tend to find guys similar to their fathers in some way. I can see that with my daughter and her boyfriend as well.

I don;t recall any interaction between Snape and Ginny. The closest thing I can think of is the..."glee" with which Snape put the detention work on Harry, as if he knew it would interfere with his time with Ginny. But that could just be that Snape has a bee in his bonnet about dating and love.

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Amilia Smith - Nov 23, 2005 11:15 pm (#1012 of 2152)

At one point in OotP, when they are all grumbling about Snape, Ginny says that Bill doesn't like him either.

But no, I can't remember any time when we have actually seen them together.

Mills.

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Weeny Owl - Nov 24, 2005 1:07 am (#1013 of 2152)

Well, in defense of Snape, he did seem a bit upset when she was taken into the Chamber of Secrets.

Ginny has a lot going for her, and one thing that has endeared her to me is that she's friends with Luna. Luna's own housemates aren't always nice to her, but but Ginny is. Ginny was even pleased that Harry took Luna to Slughorn's party, and whether or not it was Harry, Ginny was happy for Luna. That says a lot about her character, and I've always felt that that's the type of person Harry needs.

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Puck - Nov 27, 2005 10:04 am (#1014 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
Ginny has lived with all those brothers, so I imagine she lets a fair amount roll off her back. I figure she takes Snape with a grain of salt. I imagine her as competent enough in class that he really can't find much to say to her. If he was snide, instead of getting ruffled and making a mistake, she would put her mind to it and proudly turn in a perfect potion.

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Mediwitch - Dec 3, 2005 10:52 pm (#1015 of 2152)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
According to JKR's interview with Melissa and Emerson, Ginny is a "gifted witch". I love Ginny - she's one of my favorite characters - but I find myself wondering about her "gift(s)". She reportedly casts a mean Bat Bogey Hex, and she's obviously pretty bold (helping Harry get into Umbridge's office and going to the DoM) and funny, but I am not sure we have seen evidence of her true gift(s) that JKR was referring to. Any thoughts, other than the "seventh child of the seventh child" being a seer or a healer?

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Solitaire - Dec 4, 2005 11:37 am (#1016 of 2152)

Do we know that either Arthur or Molly is a seventh child?

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Ydnam96 - Dec 4, 2005 12:28 pm (#1017 of 2152)

Nope I don't think so. The only siblings we know of are the Prewitt brothers that were part of the original order.

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Amilia Smith - Dec 4, 2005 8:10 pm (#1018 of 2152)

And Uncle Bilius. But I don't think we know if he was Arthur or Molly's brother.

Mills.

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Puck - Dec 5, 2005 10:30 am (#1019 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
I always took that gifted witched comment to be a general around kind of thing. I figured it means she does well in classes and can master pretty much anything she puts her mind to.

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frogface - Dec 8, 2005 2:58 am (#1020 of 2152)

Forgive me if this has been mentioned, but has anyone else noticed that Ginny says Voldemort at the end of HBP?

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haymoni - Dec 8, 2005 6:27 am (#1021 of 2152)

I did notice that when I was reading it, but didn't think of it until now.

I'm not surprised, though.

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Aqualu Nifey - Dec 8, 2005 10:58 am (#1022 of 2152)

"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause." - Padme Amidala-Skywalker
Ginny's just cool like that! =D

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Verbina - Dec 11, 2005 4:47 pm (#1023 of 2152)

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Well, other than Harry, she has had the closest relationship to him, being posessed by his soul bit and all. Actually, considering what she went through, I am surprised she hasn't had any adverse effects. Other than her being upset about the HBP potions book, you would never have known she as posessed by the partial soul of the most vile wizard around.

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Wizadora - Dec 13, 2005 9:56 am (#1024 of 2152)

The difference is, she had no real memory of the possesion. As she said she just blacked out and found herself in odd places. But maybe that is just Ginny's get over it personality

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Verbina - Dec 14, 2005 8:20 pm (#1025 of 2152)

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This conversation sort of got me to thinking...and perhaps it doesn't belong here but...it almost seems that Voldemort unable to posess someone unless they are...well...depressed. Harry was shocked and upset over the loss of Sirius. Ginny was lonely and upset her first year of Hogwarts. So while Ginny and Harry may beo n their guard for things like that again...how many other people will be?

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Aqualu Nifey - Sep 14, 2003 12:19 pm (#1026 of 2152)

"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause." - Padme Amidala-Skywalker
Yeah, that makes sense, because you have to be a really able wizard to be able to protect against Imperius, Veritaserum, and Legilimency. I would assume that being posessed works in aproximately the same way. When they're depressed like that, they're not as able as they would otherwise be.

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frogface - Dec 15, 2005 2:44 am (#1027 of 2152)

I don't think Harry was really depressed at that point though, it hadn't properly sunk in. He was still at the point of rage in my opinion, and moved on to depression after the conversation in Dumbledore's office. However the general idea makes sense, we saw through Tonks that depression can affect a Witch or Wizard, and it seems that as Ginny became more and more diminished, the possessions became more frequent, and during Harry's 5th year there were many times were he was feeling quite low.

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Puck - Dec 16, 2005 6:52 pm (#1028 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
Remember, Ginny wasn't diminished due to depression, but becuase of the fatc that Riddle was slowly sucking out her soul to strengthen his own.

Ginny is not one to dwell on the past, but the fact that she has been posessed by LV is a thought always close to the surface. She yelled at Harry about he was stupid not to ask her what it felt like in OotP, and questioned the book in HBP. Move on, sure, but forget? Never.

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Aqualu Nifey - Dec 16, 2005 11:00 pm (#1029 of 2152)

"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause." - Padme Amidala-Skywalker
Well, Riddle was allowed to suck her soul because she was nervous and/or depressed. It was her first year, her crushed was embarrassed by her, and her brothers were kind of giving her a hard time. It leaves her in a vulnerable positionm, especially at the age of eleven.

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Verbina - Dec 17, 2005 8:11 am (#1030 of 2152)

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Being vulnerable made her a perfect "target" for Diary Tom.

Harry wasn't exactly depressed but he was in serious shock at the time and if I recall, almost seemed to want to die himself at that time. At least that is what I recall from the posession.

So...would it be safe to say that when someone has let their guard down it is more likely to happen? If that is the case, then I don't think Ginny would be posessed again simply because she knows what it is like. That and the fact that she has grown to be quite a talented witch and is strong willed. Harry as well knows what it is like and could very likely fend it off. But others in the group...Neville, Hermione, Ron... Though I must say that Hermione has a good sense of what is just not right by her behavior about the HBP book, even though it was due in part to Harry suddenly getting very good at potions.

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ema fewett - Dec 29, 2005 8:12 am (#1031 of 2152)

OK...I finally finished reading the 175 posts! phew!

I was re-reading HBP and I found something very interesting. At the end, when Harry calls it quits between him and Ginny, Ginny actually says "Voldemort" and not "You-know-who"! I found it really surprising for some reason. This definately shows that she is capable of coming with the trio to defeat Voldemort, if ofcoarse, Mollywobles allows her Smile

I wonder when Ron will start using his name....he is brave and is deffinately going to help Harry.

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Puck - Dec 29, 2005 10:10 am (#1032 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
I don't think Molly would be able to stop Ginny. It's Harry who would do that. Or try to, anyway. I have a feeling that either they will both survive or will die together.

It has been mentioned here and there about Ginny using Voldemort's name. Harry didn't seem to pick up on it though.

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haymoni - Dec 29, 2005 10:37 am (#1033 of 2152)

I think Ginny has earned the right to say Voldemort.

She was possessed by him and she can call him by his name - she knows exactly what he is capable of.

I think she says it very matter-of-factly, not hesitantly like Hermione.

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cindysuewho45 - Dec 29, 2005 2:02 pm (#1034 of 2152)

Hi all, I agree with you, Ginny dose have the right to use LV's name. As dose everybody, and everyone should use his name. At least that's DD's advice. Ginny is a very brave and powerful witch. I can only begin to imagine what kind of awesome powers being the 7th daughter of the 7th daughter will be for Ginny. I expect to see alot more of Ginny's talents in book 7. I know that she will be there for Harry, either working with him or doing research and collecting info for him at Hogwarts. One of my many theories is that she will be an animangus, and turn into a cat and follow Harry without his knowledge so she can protect the man she loves. cindysuewho

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Aqualu Nifey - Dec 30, 2005 11:28 pm (#1035 of 2152)

"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause." - Padme Amidala-Skywalker
Aww, that would be so romantic!

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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 8, 2006 2:37 pm (#1036 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I think Ginny was "depressed" due to the fact that she realized she was the one who was opening the chamber and doing the Dark Lords dirty work. THAT would really stress out an eleven year old. Fear that her family and friends would find out would be enough to drive her over the edge.

Cindysuewho45 I think Ginny will be there but will not use deception to do it. Ginny, Neville, Luna and the order will demand that Harry allow them to help him whether he likes it or not. He can't exactly whip the Dark Lord and all of the deatheaters by himself. He must come to this realization pretty fast.

Mickey

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ginnyrules - Jan 8, 2006 5:15 pm (#1037 of 2152)

farming near the Burrow
Mickey, I believe Harry will have a *host* of help sooner or later, coming from all quarters. But his best bet would be Ginny.

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Solitaire - Jan 8, 2006 7:39 pm (#1038 of 2152)

I agree, Mickey, that being possessed by Voldemort would depress anyone.

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cindysuewho45 - Jan 13, 2006 12:46 am (#1039 of 2152)

Hi all, I agree with all of you about Harry needing help. All of us need help at sometime, this is Harry's time. There will be some in the Order that will not want Harry going off to look for Horcruxes,like Mrs. Weasley and McGoagall. If Harry tells them about that, he may not. Harry may just tell them a little here and there when he needs to get some help. DD told him not to tell everyone. I'm thinking that he will end up telling Lupin, Ron and Hermione know now. Also about half way into the book he will have to let more in on it. Maybe Tonks, Mad-eye, Ginny, Neville, Luna, Kurm, Fleur & Bill, Fred and George. Thats about all, he will not want alot to know to much about what he is doing. I think that Ginny will find out on her own, then Harry will fill her in on the rest. JKR say's that Harry is becoming more powerful and that Ginny is the 7th child etc. and gifted. So I'm thinking that about half way into it, we will see Harry & Ginny working together. It will not just be Harry, Ron & Hermione doing it all. Cindysuewho

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Julie Aronson - Jan 13, 2006 1:31 am (#1040 of 2152)

Mickey,
I'm fairly sure that Ginny didn't directly know what was happening to her--she was scared and upset because of giant gaps in her memory.

Please correct me if I'm wrong...

Julie

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Potterhead - Jan 13, 2006 9:54 am (#1041 of 2152)

I love Verbina's reference to the Tom Riddle diary / Horcrux as a "soul bit" (post 1022). It made me laugh out loud. With regard to whether or how Ginny is a gifted witch, I'll throw my hat in and say that I have found her, in addition to being just likeable, highly observant, a very quick study, and brave. I see her bravery in her everday integrity as well as in her quickness to act in perilous situations - much like Harry himself. I think those traits mark her as gifted. And she has fortitude; would just any wizard, a child, at that, be able to withstand continued possession by LV (or his "soul bit")?

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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 13, 2006 7:51 pm (#1042 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Julie Aronson - I didn't intend to infer that Ginny knew she was being possessed. But she did find blood on her robes and the victims were all persons she had a problem with just prior to the attacks. So even a 11 year old can put 1 and 1 together to make 2. I think she felt that during the lapses she was (for lack of a better word) having an mental episode. Buts thats JM2K's.

Mickey

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Solitaire - Jan 13, 2006 9:04 pm (#1043 of 2152)

I may be alone here, but I doubt Dumbledore told the members of the Order about the Horcruxes. I believe that the knowledge of their existence has probably not gone beyond Slughorn, Harry, Ron, and Hermione--and Voldemort, of course. Hopefully he is in the dark as to others' knowledge about them ... although he may begin to worry about Sluggy knowing too much. As to Harry's confiding the information further ... the more people who are in on the secret, the less secure the information is.

Given Snape's status at the moment and Harry's feelings about it and him, I doubt Harry will want to give too much sensitive info to the Order until he has a feel for their take on the Snape business. If they stand behind Snape and continue to support him, I feel it could mean a breach between Harry and the Order. JM2K, of course ... but Dumbledore is no longer around to step into any breach among his supporters and issue a "last word" on anything. If those who are fighting against Voldemort begin to fragment, it could be disastrous.

Solitaire

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TomProffitt - Jan 13, 2006 9:40 pm (#1044 of 2152)

Bullheaded empiricist
Not sure how to wind this back around to Ginny, but since Solitaire posted:

"... although he may begin to worry about Sluggy knowing too much."

here, I wanted to respond here. Slughorn didn't spend a year on the lam because of his potions making ability or because of his connections. To Tom Riddle's knowledge, Slughorn may be the only person with reason to suspect Riddle has made several Horcruxes. Slughorn is very very fortunate to still be alive.

I believe in book 7 Ginny will become part of the big three. She gave in much too easily when Harry said they could no longer be together. I'm sure she is going to go right on behaving as though they are still a couple & Harry will never be able to figure out what is going on. (The y-chromosome tends to make us men stupid that way sometimes). Then there will be four with the knowledge of the Horcruxes.

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Steve Newton - Jan 13, 2006 10:17 pm (#1045 of 2152)

Librarian
Solitaire, I don't see any way that most of the OOTP knows about Horcruxes. If the word got out that they were searching for them I'm sure that they would become even more difficult to find and much better defended.

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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 13, 2006 10:37 pm (#1046 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
TomProffitt - I agree that Slughorn has been very lucky up to this point. Doubt if he will survive much longer given his predisposition for sweet gifts.

As to Ginny, Harry is foolish in thinking that just not being around Ginny will protect her. The Dark Lord is to good of at occlumency. He will be able to see right though any front Harry puts on (similar I believe to Luke's feeling for his sister Leya). I also believe he will include her in his group early on in book 7.

Solitaire and Steve Newton I also agree with you'll that Harry will keep his inner circle of 3 or 4 clued into what he is doing but he will not allow it to go beyond them. To much of a chance of the info falling into the wrong hands.

Mickey

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Amilia Smith - Jan 13, 2006 11:15 pm (#1047 of 2152)

Harry didn't even tell McGonagall about the horcruxes when she was questioning him after Dumbledore died. When she tried to insist, he changed the subject.

I also noticed that he waited until Ginny had gone to bed to discuss the horcruxes with Ron and Hermione. (I realize that sounds patronizing the way I worded it. I don't mean it that way, I just couldn't think of a better way to put it. The incident in question is at the beginning of ch. 30, p. 635-636, Scholastic.)

Anyway, in order to be included in the Horcrux Hunt, Ginny is going to have to overcome more obstacles than Harry's misguided overprotectiveness. To start with, there is Harry's trio mentality. He sees Ron and Hermione as his partners in crime, and no one else. Ginny has already handled this better than Cho did, and if that was all there was to it, I could see her breaking through that barrier relatively easily.

However, Harry also swore to Dumbledore that he would tell no one but Ron and Hermione about the horcruxes. As Dumbledore is now dead and cannot release Harry from this promise, or extend permission to Ginny as well, it is going to take some doing on her part to get him to tell her. And as Harry would probably see this as a betrayal of Dumbledore, I am not sure I want Ginny to force the issue.

Mills.

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Solitaire - Jan 14, 2006 2:11 am (#1048 of 2152)

I still have not given up the idea that Ginny has used a love charm or potion on Harry. When I began rereading HBP, her pointed interest in them in WWW caught my eye once again ...

I agree that Ginny is not jealous of Hermione, so that will not be an issue. But she is also not easily shoved aside, and if she decides to get involved, she will do so. As to Voldemort using Legilimency on Harry ... I don't know. He certainly did not do it this time. Remember that he has discovered it can be a painful thing to probe too far into Harry's psyche. Hm ... Perhaps he will do this and get trapped there ... and die of ... LOVE! Just kidding ...

Solitaire

Hey! Do you suppose Harry or someone else might turn a love potion on Voldylocks and zap him that way? I wonder what the effect would be ...

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Ydnam96 - Jan 14, 2006 10:30 am (#1049 of 2152)

Hmm...I don't see Ginny using a love potion. I think she has more self respect than that. I also think she would want Harry because he wanted her not because she forced it.

I think Ginny has the qualities Harry appreciates without her having to use a love potion.

I think her interest in the shop was JK's way of introducing them to the audience as something that the students could easily buy thus setting up the Romilda story bit with Ron.

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Solitaire - Jan 14, 2006 11:21 am (#1050 of 2152)

Possibly ... but the flower smell around her and her interest in that love potion in F&G's shop ... hmmmmmm ...

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Honour - Jan 14, 2006 2:00 pm (#1051 of 2152)
...and Molly telling Ginny and Hermione her story about love potions?

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Weeny Owl - Jan 14, 2006 4:38 pm (#1052 of 2152)

If Ginny does use a love potion, it won't be on Harry. Ginny is smart enough to know that any feelings he has for her have to be real or it wouldn't be worth it.

Love potions don't make a person love someone else. They make a person feel an obsession just as Ron was doing with Romilda Vane. Harry hasn't exhibited any of that with Ginny.

He's probably been slowly falling in love with her for a long time, but until she started being herself around him he couldn't quite see the real her. Spending most of the summer with her at the Burrow gave him a chance to see the real Ginny.

I could see Ginny giving someone else a love potion, though... maybe Goyle or Crabbe in order to get information from them about Malfoy and Snape. They might tell her whatever she wanted to know if they were under an obsessive potion.

I agree with Mandy... I think her interest in the shop was JK's way of introducing them to the audience as something that the students could easily buy thus setting up the Romilda story bit with Ron.

I would also add that it was a way of seeing what Tom Riddle Sr. may have gone through with Merope, and after she gave him an antidote or whatever the feelings were no longer there. It also shows what Slughorn said about how dangerous obessive love is.

Love potions may still play a part in the last book, but Ginny wouldn't give Harry one because she is her own person and doesn't have to resort to potions to attract someone... especially Harry.

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Amilia Smith - Jan 14, 2006 5:36 pm (#1053 of 2152)

Solitaire: Hey! Do you suppose Harry or someone else might turn a love potion on Voldylocks and zap him that way? I wonder what the effect would be ...

Weeny: Love potions don't make a person love someone else. They make a person feel an obsession just as Ron was doing with Romilda Vane.

Well, seeing as Voldemort is already pretty obsessed with Harry, I don't know if Harry using a love potion on him would make that much of a difference. Now, if someone else were to use a love potion on him, that might prove to be an interesting distraction.

Mills.

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Wand Maker - Jan 14, 2006 6:05 pm (#1054 of 2152)

Solitarie, When I first read Harry catching the flowery smell in the potions room and then in the Great Hall, I too thought that Ginny might have fed Harry a love potion. I was a little surprised that in this year, Harry all of a sudden became so infatuated with Ginny and who she was going out with, compared with the previous year. Of course, Harry was distracted in OOP with Cho, but I always wondered if Ginny did slip Harry a bit of potion just to nudge him along. If I remember correctly, Harry did not start having the feelings until after term started - after visiting Fred and George's shop and the first potion lesson.

However, after finishing the book, I think that Ginny did not feed Harry a love potion. I think that Harry realized that he had feelings for Ginny by making the connection between the smells that the love potion and Ginny emitted.

While Ginny has been taken by Harry ever since CoS, she has shown strength of character that would preclude her from using a love potion. I believe she was truthful when she confessed to Harry her feelings since meeting him and Hermione's advice.

I am quite sure that Hermione and Ginny spoke alot, sharing secrets. She always seemed to catch on when Harry was in the presence of Ginny in HBP once Harry had recognized his feelings for Ginny.

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me and my shadow 813 - Jan 14, 2006 9:20 pm (#1055 of 2152)

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I certainly hope Ginny didn't use a love potion on Harry but now that Solitaire pointed it out -the scene in the joke shop- I'm thinking it could be true. Unfortunately for me, the character of Ginny has been clouded by my distaste for the actress playing Ginny so if Harry ends up without her I won't lose sleep over it.

Even without the actress in my mind, I am not so taken with Ginny as Harry's perfect match. I don't get any softness from her personality, only "red-haired fiery only-girl-in-the-family" brazenness that has worn out it's welcome. To me she is the least developed character, of the "main" characters, and unless I see other sides to her, her softer and more vulnerable side, I think Harry's better off without her frankly.

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Weeny Owl - Jan 14, 2006 9:36 pm (#1056 of 2152)

That's interesting because I love the actress who plays Ginny and I love the character as well.

Still, the thing about love potions is that they don't make someone love someone else. They create an obsession. Harry isn't obsessed with Ginny. He's slowly come to see her as a girl and not just Ron's sister.

Harry grew accustomed to being around her during the summer, and when they got on the train and she went off to find Dean, he felt a twinge of annoyance. He was used to her being part of his group of friends. So it started out as a twinge of annoyance when she went off to find Dean and erupted into jealously when he saw her and Dean kissing. Still, he didn't pursue her. His feelings just kept growing until she ran to him after the Quidditch match and they kissed. It was a slow process of nearly a year.

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Honour - Jan 14, 2006 9:43 pm (#1057 of 2152)

That goes for me too Shadow, I found the Ginny character contrived, her shall we say "extra friendliness with the male population of Hogwarts" tiresome and the magical talent she is supposed to posess? consists of a singular hex - probably taught to her by one or other of the twins... So no, I'm not a great fan of the Ginny character and the acter portraying her in the movies is a real turn off! Dung bomb away Ginny fans!

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Aimee Shawn - Jan 14, 2006 11:45 pm (#1058 of 2152)

We don't know anything about Ginny that merits her "getting the hero". She is portrayed as an boy-crazy girl who is constantly chasing after one male or another. She doesn't have any redeeming qualities I can see. She can, probably, teach Harry quite a bit about kissing, though. Unless and until her character is better developed, I am glad Harry dumped her.

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Honour - Jan 15, 2006 2:45 am (#1059 of 2152)

Aimee you'd best come share my specially charmed "anti dung bomb" umbrella!

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Mrs Brisbee - Jan 15, 2006 8:01 am (#1060 of 2152)

I was a bit cool to Ginny until she burst on the scene in OotP. I loved her there! But I have to agree with you all that she hasn't really been developed much in HBP. She is often annoying (but of course, so was Harry when he was fifteen. Hopefully she'll get over it). I keep hearing people say that she is "popular" and "brilliant". What I would like to do is see that she is popular and brilliant (unless "popular" in British English just means popular with the opposite sex. We've seen her popularity with boys, although I don't have a problem with it).

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Puck - Jan 15, 2006 10:26 am (#1061 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
I think we have seen Ginny's soft side. Her quiet explanation that she never stopped hoping Harry would come around..., her going to the Yule Ball with Neville, her concern about the potions book. When Harry says he needs to talk to Sirius in OotP she sets up a plan without trying to grill Harry as to why. She accepts him, no explainations necessary.

I don't see her as chasing boys, but that they chase her. Please don't "hate her because she's beautiful"! Cho is oversensitive, and Hermione is pushy about her ideas/opinions. Ginny is adventurous and fun. She's strong and accepting. We didn't see what was going on with her, Ron, and Luna and the MoM, but she must be fairly gifted just to have made it out of there.

I feel no need to throw dung-bombs at those who speak negatively about one of my favorite characters, as she's strong enough to handle the criticism.

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Ydnam96 - Jan 15, 2006 11:30 am (#1062 of 2152)

Puck, I think that was well said Smile

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Solitaire - Jan 15, 2006 12:16 pm (#1063 of 2152)

I am on my reread, so I may notice things I didn't notice the first time around ... but it just seemed to me that Harry mainly thought about Ginny when he was actually around her. This is another reason why the idea of a love potion or love charm occurred to me. I do not think she would use it on him "long term," anyway, because she would have too much self-respect for that. However, I still have not given up the idea that she may have used one to capture his attention initially. Again, JM2K ...

Solitaire

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Weeny Owl - Jan 15, 2006 1:09 pm (#1064 of 2152)

Puck, great points, but I would also add that when Harry was being an idiot during Christmas in OotP, she's the one who told him that if he wanted to know what it was like to be possessed by Voldemort he should have asked her.

Also, during OotP, she's the one who talked to Tonks and found out how to tell if the door had been Imperturbed, so she has enough intelligence to find a good source when she needs to know something.

I also agree that labeling her as "boy crazy" is just wrong, as she pointed out to the twins. She dated Michael Corner until he started being an idiot about Quidditch, and then she dated Dean for most of the year. That's only two boys.

As for Harry thinking about her only when she was around, when feelings begin creeping up about someone or something, that's usually the way it happens. Harry was more obsessed about Draco than anyone else during HBP, and his feelings for Ginny were quietly growing. I just don't see that love potions, at least the way they're described, could have anything to do with Harry's feelings for her.

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Eponine - Jan 15, 2006 1:46 pm (#1065 of 2152)

I agree with Weeny Owl. Plus, the use of love potions would be completely alien to the way Jo has written relationships. The romance in these books has always been a humorous subplot, and the use of a love potion serves no purpose except to add unneccessary drama and angst to a book that already has a lot to accomplish in the tracking down and destruction of the horcruxes. Not to mention, why would Jo espouse Ginny as Harry's ideal girl if any of that attraction came from a potion?

Ginny, as someone who has had their mind controlled, would likely be the last person to advocate use of a mind-controlling substance.

I love Ginny's character, and I thought she and Harry would end up together since pre-OotP. I understand that not everyone finds her character well-developed, but as for me, I find her wonderfully flawed and a completely realistic character.

And I don't think she chases boys either.

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Aqualu Nifey - Jan 15, 2006 2:30 pm (#1066 of 2152)

"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause." - Padme Amidala-Skywalker
My thoughts on the love charm/potion thing and Harry noticing her only when she was around to me just show that Harry is a strong person, not focusing on Ginny all the time. He's had Horcruxes, Malfoy, and Snape to worry about, it would make sense that he wouldn't be entirely absorbed with Ginny, unless he was obsessed.

Though, back to what Solitaire said about Voldemort and the love potion several posts ago, I would love it if Harry gave him a love potion from Romilda Vane!

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Choices - Jan 15, 2006 2:35 pm (#1067 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think Ginny is too smart to want a boy she has to catch with a Love Potion. We have seen the disasterous results of snaring a man with trickery and magic - Merope and Tom Riddle. I think neither Ginny nor Harry would want a relationship that wasn't real.

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Solitaire - Jan 15, 2006 2:54 pm (#1068 of 2152)

Except that Ginny does not know about Merope and Tom Riddle just yet, does she?

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Choices - Jan 15, 2006 2:56 pm (#1069 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
No, Ginny doesn't know, but we do. I just think JKR has given us an example of how terribly wrong a Love Potion can go.

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Solitaire - Jan 15, 2006 2:57 pm (#1070 of 2152)

Well, I certainly agree with you there. But I am still suspicious of Ginny--not for any bad reasons. I just am ... LOL

Solitaire

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Chemyst - Jan 15, 2006 3:40 pm (#1071 of 2152)

"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I am definitely in the Ginny is not a boy-chaser camp. They come to her, but for personality more than freckle-face looks. (She'll be a late bloomer in the beauty department, I suppose.) I think that growing up with so many brothers gives her a bit of an edge in that she usually does not find boys quite as intimidating as the average young girl might. Apparently most boys find her approachable since even Neville found the courage to ask her to the Yule Ball.
Harry was an exception for her. In her pre-Hogwarts eyes, he wasn't a boy; he was a god.

Her character had been deliberately repositioned several times over, which has made it harder to see a young lady emerging from her tomboy days when Fred & George were her role models.

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me and my shadow 813 - Jan 15, 2006 3:40 pm (#1072 of 2152)

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Puck wrote -- "don't hate her because she's beautiful".

That's part of the problem. The actress is stuck in my mind and I do not see her as "pretty" nor possessing an "attractive" personality, so I just don't know why or how this girl is the catch that JKR says she is. I know JKR didn't cast the actress, but even going by the books, I'm not getting what's special about her.

I sure hope JKR fills out her character more in book 7, so she's not just a tough chick.

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Honour - Jan 15, 2006 4:05 pm (#1073 of 2152)

"please don't hate her because she is beautiful" - Puck

don't hate the Ginny character anymore than most posters hate the Severus Snape character.

Aimee bought up a very valid point I thought and that was that Ginny hadn't done anything to warrant "getting the hero". Yes I know that JKR has especially written the Ginny character to "end" up with Harry and this is why I used the word "contrived", to describe Ginny. There was no natural progression, Ginny was almost written in the same vain as JKR writes her clues, she "pops up", becomes one of the central characters, then fades back into the background, then we are told through an interview quote with JKR that Ginny has been created especially Harry - in the mean-time, Ginny has turned into a "boy chaser" (takes two guys), and then JKR blames Ginny's behaviour on advice Hermione was supposed to have given her? And yes I too think, and it could just be the way JKR wrote the events, but I too have been given the impression that Ginny if only initially used a love potion of sorts to attract Harry, thanks to the story mummy dearest shared with Ginny, and that's what got Harry's antenae waving in her direction. Now, I am going to do a re-read, and I am going to see if I can give Ginny a fair look ... Smile

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Solitaire - Jan 15, 2006 5:37 pm (#1074 of 2152)

I do not think of Ginny as a boy chaser. She seems typical of the popular girls in the school where I teach. Most of them go from boy to boy to boy in their early teens--and Ginny is only fifteen. So what? Isn't that preferable to getting way too serious at an early age? I think one reason the boys like her is that she is funny, sassy, and athletic. She does not act all clingy, as if her whole life hangs on whether this boy or that one loves her.

That said, I still think she may have given Harry a little "push" to get his attention ... with a love potion or love charm. Again ... so what? Harry probably viewed Ginny like a sister after five years, and it is not always easy to shed that image once someone has hung it on you. Sometimes it only takes a small but drastic step to get a guy's attention! More power to her!

Solitaire

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Soul Search - Jan 15, 2006 7:29 pm (#1075 of 2152)

Couple of ideas.

There was a love potion. In Slughorn's class. Fumes. Affecting Harry's and, maybe even Hermione's, emotions. Not truely the effects like the one Ron got, but an effect, just the same. Harry thought of Ginny's scent.

Hermione helped Ron get the keeper position with a spell on McClaggen. Maybe she helped Ginny a little, too?

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Solitaire - Jan 15, 2006 8:01 pm (#1076 of 2152)

Could be ... You know, Hermione's tampering with the Quidditch tryouts has always made me want to giggle a bit. I mean, she has always been Miss Go-by-the-Book-and-Follow-the-Rules in so many situations where a bit of rule-bending seemed warranted. When she bends 'em, she really bends 'em ... into pretzels!

Solitaire

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Puck - Jan 15, 2006 9:05 pm (#1077 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
If Ginny had slipped Harry a love potion I don't think she would have done it while seeing someone else, and she was dating Dean back when Harry noticed his feelings for her. Plus, she would have likely been looking for the potion to kick in, and she didn't seem to be doing so.

Was that a love potion in Slughorn's class? I thought the scent had to do with happiness. And Hermione -guessing a bit here- smelled something to do with Ron, and he didn't slip her any potion. Plenty of people are friends for years and suddenly see each other in a new light.

What does a girl have to do to be "worthy" of the hero? I think it's enough that she is a balanced match for him, and makes him happy, even if she never did anything extraordinary.

*the "don't hate her because she's beautiful" thing was a joke in reference to an '80's shampoo commercial.**

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Honour - Jan 15, 2006 11:33 pm (#1078 of 2152)

So was the reference to Severus...Smile

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Weeny Owl - Jan 15, 2006 11:52 pm (#1079 of 2152)

It was actually a love potion... Amorentia or something like that, but the potion gives each person different aromas according to what attracts them, so Hermione likes the smell of freshly mowed grass (or something like that) while Harry likes the smell of broom polish (or whatever it was), and they both like smells that remind them of something else... Harry thought of flowers which he later realized was Ginny, and Hermione we never knew because she clammed up.

The potion wasn't causing an attraction, and considering Slughorn mentioned obsessive love about it and Harry was more obsessed with Draco than with Ginny, it stands to reason that she didn't give him that potion. It's just that it brings out smells of things people are attracted to.

I would definitely smell cinnamon and coffee, but I'd probably be as close-mouthed as Hermione about anything more personal.

I just don't see Ginny using love potions, but I do see them being mentioned way back so that we could get to where we were with Ron being affected by one. It was all just hints until then, and we know Ron wasn't the target but the innocent victim.

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Amilia Smith - Jan 15, 2006 11:54 pm (#1080 of 2152)

Yes, that was a love potion in Slughorn's class. And "it's supposed to smell differently to each of us, according to what attracts us, . . ." [Edit: Cross posted with Weeny]

Puck wrote -- "don't hate her because she's beautiful".

That's part of the problem. The actress is stuck in my mind and I do not see her as "pretty" nor possessing an "attractive" personality, so I just don't know why or how this girl is the catch that JKR says she is. I know JKR didn't cast the actress, but even going by the books, I'm not getting what's special about her.

Well, so far, they've only made Movies 1-4. In which Ginny is supposed to blend into the background. Maybe she will come off in a better light in OotP?

Mills.

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The giant squid - Jan 16, 2006 2:25 am (#1081 of 2152)

it just seemed to me that Harry mainly thought about Ginny when he was actually around her. This is another reason why the idea of a love potion or love charm occurred to me.--Solitaire

Actually I think the fact that Harry only thinks about Ginny "when she's there" is evidence against a love potion. Look at how Ron acted when the potion took effect on him--Romilda was nowhere in the vicinity but Ron could think of nothing but her. If Harry had been dosed he'd be obsessing about Ginny all the time.

--Mike

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Solitaire - Jan 16, 2006 9:36 am (#1082 of 2152)

That is actually the most compelling argument I've heard against it, Mike. But I was thinking perhaps she used some charmed perfume or something ...

Solitaire

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Eponine - Jan 16, 2006 10:28 am (#1083 of 2152)

I just don't see the point of a love potion or charmed perfume or anything that caused Harry to like Ginny other than his own volition. How would it be revealed in book 7? How would Harry feel if he found out his feelings for her had been artificially enhanced? What would it add to the story but unneccessary drama and angst? There's no need for such a storyline. Jo said that Ginny is Harry's ideal girl, and if anyone can attract him without magical assistance it would be his ideal girl.

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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 16, 2006 2:56 pm (#1084 of 2152)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Why is everyone so sure that Ginny needs a love potion or deceit for Harry to love her. If you'll have noticed Harry isn't exactly a hunk himself and his knowledge of the opposite sex is nil as his relationship with Cho proved.

I believe he has been moving towards this relationship with Ginny since CofS. Of all of the characters only Ginny has felt a direct attack from Voldemort like Harry. Ginny has had a thing for Harry since she first met him. Ginny may have played the field so to speak but never lost her feelings for Harry. She was just being a normal teenage girl and waiting for Harry to come to grips with his real feelings for her.

I also believe that the character playing Ginny in the movies is a perfect representation of the character shown in the books. I believe now as I always have that Ginny & Harry were meant to be.

Mickey

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Eponine - Jan 16, 2006 3:26 pm (#1085 of 2152)

I agree with you, Mickey. Harry and Ginny's relationship is just what it seems. There's no deceit involved.

And I think Bonnie Wright is perfect for Ginny, too.

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Chemyst - Jan 16, 2006 9:19 pm (#1086 of 2152)

"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Mickey, the only part of your last post I disagree with is "he has been moving towards this relationship with Ginny since CofS." I think it began on platform 93/4 back in PS/SS. He notices her even before they go through the barrier. Later it says, "Harry sat down next to the window where, half hidden, he could watch the red-haired family..." Ginny begs to meet him even then.
As the train pulls out, Harry sees her, half laughing, half crying, running to keep up. That is such a nutshell description of their next six years: half laughing times, half crying times, and generally moving in the same direction but at different individual speeds.

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Solitaire - Jan 16, 2006 9:32 pm (#1087 of 2152)

Harry isn't exactly a hunk himself and his knowledge of the opposite sex is nil

ROTFLOL ... True! Thanks for the best giggle I've had all day!

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Mrs. Sirius - Jan 16, 2006 11:21 pm (#1088 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
That's part of the problem. The actress is stuck in my mind and I do not see her as "pretty" nor possessing an "attractive" personality, so I just don't know why or how this girl is the catch that JKR says she is. I know JKR didn't cast the actress, but even going by the books, I'm not getting what's special about her.

May I posit that 1) JK didn't do the casting and 2) the British idea of beauty and the American idea of beauty ( or other cultures0 are quite different. Witness how Fluer is described in the book. She is eyepopping beautiful and stunning. The actress playing the role is very active but by no means what we expect from reading the book. In my opinion, the actress playing Cho is really cute, but again not what I expected from reading the book. Personality is huge factor in a person being attractive.

In America, we have a certain expectation of perfection of beauty, open any fashion magazine, but it seems that the British have a higher tolerance for imperfection.

As for Ginny using a love potion, she is attractive enough and I think her vivacious personality, makes her even more physically beautiful.

Have you never met a person whom you believe to be very attractive, yet when you look at a picture of them or a person who has not met them sees the picture, not think think to look that great?

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Snuffles - Jan 17, 2006 1:46 am (#1089 of 2152)

Olivia
I don't agree about Bonnie not being pretty. In the first two movies she was young and hadn't 'blossomed'. If you look at the premiere pictures of GoF and look at Bonnie, she has really matured and is now a very pretty girl. I just hope the movie makers show this in OOTP.

British and American movie makers do have different tolerance I believe when casting people. In Britain you could make it in the movies business looking as you were born so to speak, but are told that if you want to make it in America you must get your teeth whitened, straightened, capped whatever. You must be sooooo thin and basically perfect. I'm glad that some of the acters in these movies have some flawes. (This is just my opinion)

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cindysuewho45 - Jan 17, 2006 2:20 am (#1090 of 2152)

Hi all, Yes Solitaire on post 1042 your right about DD not telling anyone about the horcruxes. That it is Slughorn knows alittle and DD told Harry all he knows and Harry told Ron and Hermione. But RAB also knows, thats all the books tell us. I do not feel that Ginny has used a love potion ever. The books did not say that, and I just can not see her doing it. She loves Harry and and went along time with out him. Why start using a love potion now? That would have been something that if she would of ever done it, it would have been in her 1st or 2nd year. But not now.

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CatherineHermiona - Jan 17, 2006 3:54 am (#1091 of 2152)

My drawing... LOL
You know, Hermione's tampering with the Quidditch tryouts has always made me want to giggle a bit. I mean, she has always been Miss Go-by-the-Book-and-Follow-the-Rules in so many situations where a bit of rule-bending seemed warranted. When she bends 'em, she really bends 'em ... into pretzels! - Solitaire

I really don't know how to describe myself better. Really.

She seems typical of the popular girls in the school where I teach. Most of them go from boy to boy to boy in their early teens--and Ginny is only fifteen. - Solitaire

I met dozens of girls like that, Solitaire. One of them can't live without two or three boys at the time. All the boys adore her, those that haven't yet been her boyfriends. Those who have been, they hate her.

Ginny and Hermione are two my favorite characters. Because I can compare them to different parts of myself.

Also, I don't think that Ginny would go so low to use love potion. Harry maybe looked at Ginny as his sister. He thought that the monster inside of him came because he wanted to protect her as a brother (or something like that). He was denying his feelings to her and person on which love potion is used doesn't question his/her obsession with that person. I hope you understand anything I said her. English isn't my first language and I'm not always good with words.

Kate

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Chemyst - Jan 17, 2006 5:41 am (#1092 of 2152)

"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
If you look at the premiere pictures of GoF and look at Bonnie, she has really matured and is now a very pretty girl. I just hope the movie makers show this in OOTP. - Snuffles

LOL! When I saw those pictures last fall, I was thinking – Gosh, I hope they can hold off making her look too good until HBP! Until then, they need to keep the 'kid sister' look.

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Snuffles - Jan 17, 2006 5:45 am (#1093 of 2152)

Olivia
That's true Chemyst, I meant HBP not OOTP! I was typing at work, rushing and trying not to let the dementors see me!!

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me and my shadow 813 - Jan 17, 2006 5:51 pm (#1094 of 2152)

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Mrs. Sirius, thanks for your post. I did mention that I am aware JKR didn't cast the role of Ginny. Also, I'm not in America. But I'm aware of the preoccupation of physical beauty in Hollywood. I certainly do not expect these teens to be out of a magazine, etc. I was just adding to the conversation that, as I said in the earlier post, I personally do not get "attractive" from her physically Nor personality-wise. That goes for the books, not just the films. Oh well.

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Die Zimtzicke - Feb 9, 2006 10:37 pm (#1095 of 2152)

I admit, I never liked Ginny from the time she wanted to go gawk at Harry on the train. I laughed when the train pulled out and Harry felt he had to be going to something better than what he had left behind, because the last thing he had seen was that annoying little girl.

I really disliked her in HbP. I thought she was a brat to everyone at one point or another, and I had expected her to really DO something important, but she didn't, as far as I could see. If it hadn't of been for the Felix, she probably would have been killed in the fight.

I don't think she's using a love potion, since I see that's come up a lot here, but I keep thinking about that scintillation solution they mentioned. Maybe she did use something just to make her more popular. I don't know. She had no friends in CoS and was talking to a book, and then she was Miss Hogwarts in HbP. I think she was developed fairly unevenly.

But that's just me. I know a lot of people like her, but I don't. As for the relationship, it was short, we didn't see enough of it, the breakup was stupid since it can't really protect her, so what's the point? I think it was just to show Harry what it would be like to be normal for a little while, but he knows that's not the way things can be for him. He even says it was like living someone else's life.

I think Harry might have to die, or at least be a Lone hero type, so I can't get interested in Ginny as a love interest. It's one of the reasons I disliked HbP. If you're not a shipper, there wasn't much to it. And she never did anything else to make me care about her.

Nothing personal to Ginny fans. She just bores me.

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Sticky Glue - Feb 10, 2006 3:08 am (#1096 of 2152)

I've never really liked the way that Ginny has been portrayed in the movies.

I have always thought of her as a tomboy - I see her as being strong and independent. She tought herself how to break into the family broom cupboard, how to fly, how to play quiddich, the bat boggy spell and many many more things.

If Harry survives book seven, then I beleive that JKR created Ginny to give Harry a family - if Harry survives he has no parents, siblings, grandparents, godparents or anyone - by marrying Ginny he will suddenly have six brothers and loving parents.

I don't beleive their relationship is over, I think we will find that she helps Harry and probably puts herself in danger to help him, without him knowing it.

I just hope in the movies they don't dress her in girlie lacy stuff - I see her more as the jeans and leather type. (or Rocker style)

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Die Zimtzicke - Feb 10, 2006 7:59 am (#1097 of 2152)

I know it isn't specifically stated but I always assumed Luna was a pureblood, too, like Ginny.

What bugs me about Ginny and the pureblood family thing is that Jo said she is powerful because she is a seventh child. I know it's been mentioned before, but it was usually historically the sevetnth son of a seventh son, or seventh daughter of a seventh daughter who was special. Not just a seventh child.

Starts humming Johnny River's song "Seventh Son" and reveals age again...

Also I wish someone would use her full name, Ginevra, in canon. I like it better when the stuff Jo tells us in interviews is in the text. If you are talking to someone who never goes online, they look at you like you're crazy when you bring this stuff up. Everyone like that I know thinks Luna and Neville are together now, and that Harry and Ginny are just split up and that's that.

It's frustrating to have to read interviews to find out what the books meant.

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Steve Newton - Feb 10, 2006 8:13 am (#1098 of 2152)

Librarian
Die Zimtzicke, I agree about the use of her full name in canon. I'm not sure that in 20 years anyone reading the books will have access to the information that we now have from JKR's website, interviews, and other sources. To me canon is what is in the books. I can't reject our other sources because of the good information that they contain but I find their use troublesome.

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frogface - Feb 10, 2006 11:56 am (#1099 of 2152)

With the seventh child thing...JKR does borrow from myths, legends etc, but she also applys her own rules. So if she wants to twist the seventh child of the seventh child rule for the purposes of her story, then she can. Then again, it could just be a plot error (maybe orignally Arthur was meant to be the youngest of 7 or something) but it doesn't have a huge impact on the story.

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me and my shadow 813 - Feb 10, 2006 4:15 pm (#1100 of 2152)

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Personal distaste for her aside, I do see Ginny and the rest of the Weasley clan being potential targets in book 7. The clue that has me unsettled is Molly's statement about her clock in HBP being perpetually at "mortal peril".

She says to Harry, "'It's been like that for a while now,' said Mrs. Weasley in an unconvincingly casual voice, "ever since You-Know-Who came back into the open. I suppose everybody's in mortal peril now...I don't think it can be just our family...but I don't know anyone else who's got a clock like this, so I can't check.'"

My sense is Harry's breaking up with Ginny to protect her is a foreshadowing of the Weasleys and the Burrow being in danger. Vold must know by now they are Harry's surrogate family and will use it as leverage against him.

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Ginny Weasley Empty Ginny Weasley (Post 1101 to 1150)

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Puck - Feb 10, 2006 8:05 pm (#1101 of 2152)
Mommy, Queen of Everything
Wormatail has much information about the Weasley family, as he lived with them for over a decade. This puts Ginny and the other Weasley's in danger, as he may have overheard things such as nicknames that can be used as passwords, areas of weakness, etc...

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me and my shadow 813 - Feb 11, 2006 3:38 pm (#1102 of 2152)

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Good thinking, Puck. It does seem like in HBP we're shown Molly is reluctant to stick to the plan of asking questions/passwords, and Arthur says even if they use the questions they might still be tricked. This definitely could be foreshadowing, with Wormtail providing DE's with nicknames, etc., as you mentioned.

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Die Zimtzicke - Feb 14, 2006 10:20 am (#1103 of 2152)

I do think the clock saying the Weasleys are in mortal peril means something. That's why I think the Bill/Fleur wedding has a huge TARGET painted on it. I think there will possibly be an attack there, and that may be where the first death in book seven Jo spoke of recently occurs. I think it's even money on either Ginny or Molly dying. Both of them would give Harry the push he needs to do what he has to do. I don't know anyone who actually believes Ginny is safer now that Harry broke up with her, mainly because anyone who could pass that info on to Voldemort hasn't heard about it.

I personally find Ginny extremely boring, but if she died doing something heroic and gve Harry the will to win, she'd at least be interesting to me.

Don't hit me, Ginny fans, please!

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Choices - Feb 14, 2006 11:07 am (#1104 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think the clock pointing to "Mortal Peril" is just symbolic of the entire wizarding world being in danger from Voldemort, not just the Weasleys.

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The One - Feb 14, 2006 1:06 pm (#1105 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
I personally find Ginny extremely boring, but if she died doing something heroic and gve Harry the will to win, she'd at least be interesting to me.

Actually, I agree. It does not look at all to me as if Ginny is set up to be the hero's big love, and yet apparently she is. But she does seem to be set up for something. The idea that what she really is set up for is death does make sense.

Still, the story is about love. Making book 7 a quest for Harry to avenge his dead girlfriend does not quit fit either.

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frogface - Feb 14, 2006 1:43 pm (#1106 of 2152)

I don't think Harry needs a push though. I think Dumbledore's death (whether you truely believe he's dead or not) was the push he needed. I don't think any major character will die at the wedding because it looks to me as though the wedding is going to take place quite early on in the story, and in terms of writing, killing a major character off that early wouldn't work for me. It wouldn't fit Jo's pattern either.

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Soul Search - Feb 14, 2006 2:15 pm (#1107 of 2152)

frogface, I tend to agree that Harry doesn't need any more deaths for motivation. I hope you are right about no more major deaths, but I am concerned about a few things. HBP set a different pattern than the first five; we learned about Vance and Bones in the first chapter. Not major, but we (and Harry) had met both.)

Also, JKR has said HBP and book seven are more like one book, so even a death in the first chapter of book seven wouldn't exactly be a deparature from form.

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Mediwitch - Feb 14, 2006 4:34 pm (#1108 of 2152)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
Oh, I don't know...I think surviving possession by Voldemort and growing from an awkward, goggling hero-worshipper to an independent, self-confident young woman who can stand up for herself makes her pretty interesting. (And I don't think because she dated Michael Corner in OoP and Dean Thomas from the end of OoP into HBP made her a boy-chaser. That's just two boys in two years!)

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Solitaire - Feb 14, 2006 7:45 pm (#1109 of 2152)

As one who has spent twenty years of my life teaching adolescents--during which time I have had ample opportunity to witness the frequency with which they change partners--I find Ginny's dating behavior absolutely normal.

Solitaire

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Mrs. Sirius - Feb 16, 2006 11:10 pm (#1110 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Actually, I agree. It does not look at all to me as if Ginny is set up to be the hero's big love, and yet apparently she is. But she does seem to be set up for something. The idea that what she really is set up for is death does make sense. The One

These stories are about love. We have seen James and Lily's love for Harry, we have seen Harry's ability to love friends after living with the Dursleys, and new love for family substitutes. We have not seen Harry's romantic love. Ginny is not necessarily to give Harry a push to do what he must, but she is more to show Harry's capacity to love, (and my favorite theory, that she ties Harry in to an actual stable permanent family with Ron) continue to love in the face of all the evil that he has encountered.
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The One - Feb 17, 2006 12:05 pm (#1111 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
This starts to ger dangerously close to he Ship Ship thread. I will make one last comment, and then move to that thread if we want to continue.

Yes, it is a story about love. But I do not see that love between Harry and Giny. I see the young girl crushing on the school hero and I see the school Hero crushing on the school babe. But, we never see the two young really get to know each other. We never see how they speak about what is difficult. We see Ginny having a fangirl crush on the Hero since age 10, we see her give up, and we see her come back when she has developed into a show-off girl that catches the hero's interest. We see them get together because they start snogging in euphoria after a Quiddich victory.

We see Harry dump the babe for security reasons, but we do not really see him ponder what Ginny will feel about that. Etc...

We as readers also hardly know Ginny. See is weak in book two, where her role is that of the victim. In book 3 and 4 we see her as comic relief with her crush. Then she turns supercool.

To me she is just the hero's girlfriend, because "what is life without some romance", but she is not THE girl, whose lofe for the hero and/or hero's love for her, will conquer evil and save the wizarding world.

To me she is just a babe, and heros tend to get the babes if they want them.

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haymoni - Feb 17, 2006 12:09 pm (#1112 of 2152)

That is totally possible - especially since we are talking about a 15 and a 16 year-old.

If my son thought he'd found the girl of his dreams when he was 16, I'd tell him he was crazy and that he'd better stop seeing her.

However, I know lots of couples that dated from high school and ended up getting married.

I really think Harry is attracted to Ginny because she looks like Lily and she is part of something that he envies - the Weasley family.

It might not be the healthiest thing, but it is what it is.

And it's only a book.

(Did I say that???)

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frogface - Feb 17, 2006 12:12 pm (#1113 of 2152)

Why do people think Ginny is a show off? How and when has she ever showed off? I see the love between Harry and Ginny very clearly. Maybe you missed it before, but if you read over the funeral scene again there is a clear and strong current of understanding that passes between them. As for getting to know each other, well what about the 3 summers Harry spent living in Ginny's home, plus the summer when they both stayed at Grimmauld Place? Harry used to see Ginny as a little sister, and if that doesn't show a bond, I don't know what does. We saw that bond change and strengthen for Harry as he and Ginny matured. Moreover JKR has said that Ginny is Harry's ideal girl, and if thats the case then I'm sure that their relationship is going to be important to outcome of the series.

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Choices - Feb 17, 2006 12:27 pm (#1114 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I tend to see it your way frogface. Just because JKR doesn't dwell too much on the relationship, doesn't mean there isn't a lot more there than meets the eye.

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Lina - Feb 17, 2006 2:29 pm (#1115 of 2152)

Kate's new T-shirt and henna tattoo
There is the moment, in OotP, and I noticed it only on the second reread of the book, in the chapter 29, Careers Advice. Harry is in the library and Ginny brings him the chocolate egg that her mum sent. Then she asks him what is wrong, she assumes it is about Cho, and then offers a help. And she helps herself with a bit of egg. I just find that moment great, they both act like good friends. She shows concern and understanding, and he shows trust. And it is so warm. At my second rereading, I stopped at that moment and enjoyed it. There are so many emotions, she says that having Fred and George as brothers makes you believe that nothing is impossible, and I envy her for her brothers at that moment... There are many moments that show connection among Weasley siblings and their care in the series. She shows caring for Harry in this moment. Maybe there are more moments like this in the books, but this one is staying really warm in my memory. I don't think that the love between Harry and Ginny came out suddenly and illogically, I don't think that she sees a hero in him or that he sees the babe in her and I don't feel as we readers hardly know Ginny. I see her present a lot, just more listening and watching than talking.

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me and my shadow 813 - Feb 17, 2006 4:25 pm (#1116 of 2152)

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Lina, that sounds like a nice passage of OoP which I forgot about. The bottom line is JKR says she's Harry's ideal girl. I don't see her as "getting around" too much like others have posted. I remember my high school days and this is pretty close. So thanks for pointing out that scene in the library because my main problem with Ginny is most of the things that come out of her mouth have an exclamation point at the end, in other words she seems loud and almost hostile to an extent that puts Hermione to shame. Maybe JKR thinks a boy like Harry, who up until recently was quite reserved, needs a "strong" girl to balance him out. I think it's a bit overboard. From what we are shown of Ginny's personality, I've known girls like her and I don't tend to enjoy being around them. So, again, I do hope that in book 7 JKR "fills in" her personality so we can see a more vulnerable side to this character.

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Mediwitch - Feb 17, 2006 7:11 pm (#1117 of 2152)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
Maybe I'm a bit defensive of Ginny because I rather identify with her personality, but if you really look deeply into those "strong" brash people (males and females alike), you will often find that the outward show is really just masking a lot of vulnerabilities and insecurities! I can imagine that, especially after her first year, Ginny does indeed have those insecurities - what adolescent doesn't?

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me and my shadow 813 - Feb 17, 2006 7:41 pm (#1118 of 2152)

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Mediwitch wrote -- "you will often find that the outward show is really just masking a lot of vulnerabilities and insecurities!"

Doesn't everyone? That's exactly my point - so far Ginny hasn't taken off the mask and I won't truly respect her as a character nor as a worthy partner for Harry unless she's shown to be a bit softer/warmer. Why is she the "life and soul" of the Quidditch team simply because she makes fun of all the players? I understand she's funny like Lily supposedly was but what else is she? I guess it might come down to poor planning on JKR's part that by book 6, for a person who will mean so much to Harry, we don't hear any dialogue from her with anyone that shows tenderness. That's why I was glad when Lina pointed out the library scene, because to me that sort of "evidence" of Ginny saying anything soft/warm is sorely lacking in the series. Can anyone find a line in any of the books which has Ginny smiling? Perhaps in CoS after Harry saved her life?

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Nathan Zimmermann - Feb 17, 2006 7:57 pm (#1119 of 2152)

MAMS813, in certain instances the mask and the maintenance of the that you describe is a necessary evil. For example, Elizabeth I utilized such a mask not because, she desired to but, because circumstances dictated that such a mask was called for. I view Ginny in much the same light. Harry is vulnerable and long as Harry is vulnerable to attack, the mask of strength and aloofness must remain in place. If the mask is torn away or if Ginny is publicly demonstrative of her affection the results could be disastrous. After all look at what occurred the last time Voldemort manipulated Harry's emotions.

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Puck - Feb 17, 2006 8:06 pm (#1120 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
She's nice to Luna, when everyone else makes fun of her.

She's kind to Neville as well. She doesn't just try to hang out with "cool kids", but takes people for who they are.

She's brave enough to take on adult DE not once, but twice, before the age of 16.

Lina, I, too, have always enjoyed that scene in OotP. That is when I really started to see her as the girl for Harry.

I wonder what those who see her as "unworthy" would want to see her do to prove herself? He's happiest when he's with her. Isn't that enough?

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haymoni - Feb 17, 2006 8:27 pm (#1121 of 2152)

That scene that you described actually made me think that little Ginny had grown up.

She could have flirted with Harry or said something flip, but instead she really tried to help him solve his problem.

I knew I liked that kid!!!

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Mrs. Sirius - Feb 17, 2006 9:02 pm (#1122 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
This story is about Harry! We don't and can't really see Ginny as a fully developed person. Hermione and Ron too are presented pretty much through Harry's eyes.

JKR touches and intimates at Ginny's character by telling us she is a friend of Luna who is an oddball not always treated well by others, Ginny is good at Quidditch because she learns from Fred and George,

has her own way with spells. she yells and screams bloody murder when her mother puts her to bed early, not letting her in on the last news.

When Harry has problems she puts her own feelings aside, when he wants to talk to Sirius, when he is looking for a date for the Yule ball, even when she thinks he is having trouble with Cho. But she still has enough back bone to tell him off when he needs it. When he is moping around feeling sorry for himself in OoTP she confronts him and tells him he's a prat. When they consider going to rescue Sirius she doesn't hesitate and lets him know she has her own feelings to Sirius.

It may seem that Ginny is a bit 2 dimensional, but that is a sacrifice of time and space. JK can't tell us every detail about Ginny, these books are not about her, they are about Harry and the entire world is shown only thru his very myopic lens.

There is more to Hermione than being smart, she probably has more roommates that Lavender Brown and Parvati Patil, but that's all we see because that is all that registers with Harry.

Ginny is a well developed person, if not a full shown character

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Chemyst - Feb 17, 2006 9:09 pm (#1123 of 2152)

"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I have thought of Ginny as one of the more unusual mask-free teens. I don't see much evidence that, after Chamber of Secrets, she has intentionally hidden much of anything. If Harry didn't see who she really is until recently, it is not because she was hiding but because he never looked.

The problem in their relationship – and by the end of HBP the relationship is more of an integral part of the plot than mere 'shipping thread speculation – anyway, the problem is Harry's immaturity; not Ginny's so-called unworthiness. The whole idea of "I'm breaking up with you for your own good" is about as childish as one can get. (We have certainly seen that DD's cutting Harry out of the loop 'to protect him' wasn't a roaring success.) True love endures. And it requires both a giver and a receiver. Harry can't banish Ginny without depleting the supply of his most effective weapon.

It is Voldemort who is the narcissist loner, and according to DD, that will be his undoing.

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Lina - Feb 18, 2006 1:32 am (#1124 of 2152)

Kate's new T-shirt and henna tattoo
I see Ginny in quite the similar way as you do, Chemyst, so I was thinking about the reasons why some people don't notice her in the books. It is possible that the "problem" is in HP books being a sort of a thriller. There are many places where we are looking for some puzzle to be solved, when we are "running" in reading to see how is something going to end. And I think that Ginny is introduced very subtle throughout the books, with many small notes, or even parts of the sentences. People who don't concentrate on those little hints, like helping herself with the chocolate, that I really loved, might not notice her at all. I, for myself, am not able to notice always these moments at the first reading, sometimes not even at the second (and so on...). I really think that the greatness of JKR's writing is in putting a lot of those little hints (not just about Ginny) and not explaining things in the obvious way.

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Choices - Feb 18, 2006 11:16 am (#1125 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Shadow - "I guess it might come down to poor planning on JKR's part.."

Oh my, after 6 wonderful books (almost 7), we find out JKR is a poor planner. Who would have thought it???

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Weeny Owl - Feb 18, 2006 3:02 pm (#1126 of 2152)

JKR has given us more information on Harry and Ginny than it may seem, but she didn't spell it out.

During the summer in HBP, the trio and Ginny spent time playing Quidditch, for one thing, and while that's just an example, it seems indicative of there being a lot of free time spent talking and just being together.

One of my favorite parts of HBP is when Ginny takes the maggot out of Harry's hair at Christmas. That shows a familiarity and ease between them.

Regardless of Ginny's hero worship in the beginning, she's never been a Romilda Vane. Ginny isn't brash and aggressive, but shy and clumsy at the beginning. She doesn't throw herself at Harry, tell him to hang out with cool people instead of his friends, or force herself on him. By OotP, even if she hasn't totally given up on him, she has spent time getting to know another boy, and spent time weaning herself from her "first crush" feelings. By HPB, she is getting to know Harry-the-person as opposed to Harry-the-crush, and she has enough confidence now to be her own person. By being her own person, she has achieved a popularity that is natural and not artificial because people are seeing her for the person she is.

Ginny doesn't let people tell her what to do, including her brothers. She stands up for herself and people she cares for. She likes people based on who they are and not how cool they are.

She sounds like a great person for Harry, at least to me.

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Choices - Feb 18, 2006 3:12 pm (#1127 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I agree Weeny Owl - you put it very nicely.

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The One - Feb 18, 2006 3:42 pm (#1128 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
Just for the record: I do not see Ginny as "unworthy" of Harry as a person. We do not know her well enough to judge.

But the literary characterGinny does not seem to be worthy of being the ultimate love interest of the hero in a story about how love defeats evil.

That is my gut feeling.

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Puck - Feb 18, 2006 8:41 pm (#1129 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
I love that she grabbed the maggot without the least bit of squeemish girlishness.

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Mrs. Sirius - Feb 18, 2006 11:31 pm (#1130 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
In "Excess of Phlegm" there is a wonderful little scene that one one mentions. Harry's first day back at the Burrow, Hermione and Ron come into Harry's room while he is still asleep. They have a short conversation then Ginny trudges in says:

"I know someone who's worse than Umbridge,... Hi, Harry" slouches in then plonks herself down on the bed.

Conversation continues normally. A few minutes later Fluer comes in and Harry pulls the bed covers up so hard the Hermione and Ginny fall of the bed! Can any thing so more clearly how comfortable Harry is with Ginny?

Yes, so very very subtle, like Lina said. It isn't Harry and Ginny having a heart to heart or romantic episode but it shows how much Harry accept Ginny as part of his inner circle and within his comfort zone.

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Lina - Feb 19, 2006 12:30 am (#1131 of 2152)

Kate's new T-shirt and henna tattoo
Yes, people, thank you, I knew there were more clues like these...

And yes, I like the way that HRH are central characters in the books, Hermione and Ron being partially heros too, actually, the trio making one hero. And I don't have the feeling that we don't know enough to judge Ginny, it is just that she is described more by actions than by words.

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The One - Feb 19, 2006 10:35 am (#1132 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
it shows how much Harry accept Ginny as part of his inner circle

And stil, at the end of the HBP we see that Hermione has some information to tell, she waits untill Ginny has left before she tells him. We never see Harry discuss his life and struggle with Ginny.

He drops her at the end of HBP for security reasons, but allows Ron and Hermione to stay with him. He is pleased that he will have one more day of normality with them, but does not waste a moment thinking about Ginny beeing there.

My impression is that Ginny is his best source of comfort because she alows him to escape his own life for a period, not because she is part of it.

Ginny would probably been a very cool girl in real life, with many strong points, but to me the character Ginny is the most boring of the important characters in the story.

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Steve Newton - Feb 19, 2006 11:41 am (#1133 of 2152)

Librarian
I got the impression that Harry included Ron and Hermione because Dumbledore had told him too.

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Lina - Feb 19, 2006 12:27 pm (#1134 of 2152)

Kate's new T-shirt and henna tattoo
Ron and Hermione are in this with him ever since the first book. They fought the troll together which is a very special experience, as JKR says. They joined his first conscious fight against Voldemort, having no idea what were they going into, in the first year. And they have been in the fight against Voldemort ever since. He just can't remove them from that fight. While, I can totally understand his wish not to connect Ginny with Voldemort in any way. I don't think he wishes his whole life to be a battle with Voldemort. He wants to bring it to the end and then to enjoy Ginny's company for the rest of his life. Well, it just makes sense for me...

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Catherine - Feb 19, 2006 12:43 pm (#1135 of 2152)

Canon Seeker
Ginny would probably been a very cool girl in real life, with many strong points, but to me the character Ginny is the most boring of the important characters in the story. --The One

I disagree that Ginny is a boring character. Difficult, perhaps; mouthy, maybe; obstinate, definitely. But not boring.

She appears to have a strong dose of interesting "Weasley" characteristics--her mother's temper, Ron's sarcasm, and Fred and George's nerve. Harry had to get physically between her and Ron during the "snogging" argument. She managed to make Zacharias Smith pay for his comments during the Slytherin Quidditch match by zooming into the stands. She makes fun of Fleur, and stands up to others when they make fun of Luna.

I see Ginny as a girl who will not tolerate being "the baby" any longer. She shrieks at her mother in OoP when Molly refuses to allow her to remain downstairs and hear about the Order. Her initial reaction to her ankle injury in OoP was to shrug away help with an "I can do it myself" attitude. At the beginning of HBP, she resents Fleur speaking down to her as if she were three years old, and she resents the brotherly interference and advice from Fred, George, and Ron about her serial dating habits. She speaks sternly to Harry when she thinks he needs it; in OoP, about feeling like an outsider due to his experience with Voldemort and in HbP about taking advice from his potions textbook.

So I see her as a strong young lady who stands up for her friends and to her friends when it is needed, and it is difficult for me to equate those traits with "boring."

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Solitaire - Feb 19, 2006 4:00 pm (#1136 of 2152)

I don't necessarily see shrieking at her mother and making fun of Fleur as signs of her strength of character. Rather, I'd say those are weak spots in her character. Combined with her mouthy brashness, these behaviors serve to remind us that she is still a kid, just as Harry's shouting fits in OotP served to remind us he was an adolescent.

Ginny is not only the youngest of seven siblings, but she is also the only girl. I think she asserts her independence rather defiantly because she does not want to fall into the trap of being treated like a baby by the rest of the family. She has probably also had to fend off her brothers' teasing and tormenting most of her life ... and when two of those brothers are Fred and George, well, I really can't blame her if she a bit bolder and more assertive than the usual baby sister when it comes to getting even with her tormentors.

I think Ginny has a lot of potential as a character and as a future partner for Harry, as soon as she learns to control her little immature outbursts (which are natural for one her age in her situation). She still has the distinction of being the only one of Harry's friends who has been directly involved with Voldemort, and this alone gives her a special bond with Harry.

Solitaire

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Catherine - Feb 19, 2006 4:11 pm (#1137 of 2152)

Canon Seeker
I don't necessarily see shrieking at her mother and making fun of Fleur as signs of her strength of character. Rather, I'd say those are weak spots in her character. -Solitaire

Righto. I totally agree.

I used those as an example of "interesting" vs. "boring," as The One stated. Immaturity and conflict, alas earwax, are often interesting, even if they are not positive. (Just watch the ratings of reality TV--kidding)

I still maintain that Ginny is not boring, even if, and especially because, she displays those adolescent "flaws" while she moves toward adult status.

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Chemyst - Feb 19, 2006 5:21 pm (#1138 of 2152)

"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
but to me the character Ginny is ... - The One

I'm not really connecting with the distinction you're making about a 'character' Ginny, unless you are saying that JKR has treated Ginny's character development a little differently than she has other Hogwarts' students. And that, she has. Ginny has been on the pages ever since Harry's first trip to Platform 93/4, but for much of the series there hasn't been a real point to her being there. (Well, in CS there was that victim thing... but even there she was hidden throughout most of the story and in her "big scene" she was unconscious.)

For most characters, it is relatively easy to see what their direct impact is in Harry's life, while Ginny has been more loosely woven into the story. Most of her insights, comfort, and quidditch playing could have been filled *almost* as well by giving these lines to someone else, (at least, up until Harry acquires the monster in his belly.) So unless what you are calling "boring" is that JKR has given Ginny only brief bits and pieces here and there, and that for most of the series she has been kept busy while waiting in the wings, then I don't see what you are trying to say.

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Puck - Feb 19, 2006 8:40 pm (#1139 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
Well, we don't notice her much until Harry does, do we? When he starts to notice her, we hear more about her. Suddenly she has long bouncy hair, and a fire in her eyes. She starts smelling of flowers. She's witty and popular. Of course, she has had these traits right along, but we didn't see it until Harry did. Perhaps that is why people think it "came out of nowhere". Actually, she's been there all along, we just had to wait for Harry to see it.

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The giant squid - Feb 20, 2006 2:29 am (#1140 of 2152)

I can kind of see where he One is coming from. In nearly every post defending Ginny, the words I feel she is... come up. In reality her character is rather thin--we just tend to fill in the blanks with traits or actions we approve of. If you look closely, we do the same with Draco. We really don't know much about him (although I concede that he's a total git), but since Harry doesn't like him we fill in the blanks with badness.

That said, the "we"s are in there for a reason--I'm just as guilty. I like Ginny. And I'm not afraid who knows it.

--Mike

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Mediwitch - Feb 20, 2006 7:55 pm (#1141 of 2152)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
I think Puck is absolutely correct - we don't notice Ginny very much for a very long time because Harry doesn't notice Ginny for a long time...just as he doesn't really notice many other students. (Blaise Zabini, Theodore Nott, Cormac MacLaggen, Romilda Vane, etc.) It only appears that she came bursting onto the scene because Harry widened his scope of vision - Ginny moved out of his peripheral vision into his line of sight.

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Mrs. Sirius - Feb 21, 2006 12:01 am (#1142 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Chemyst, I agree entirely that very often when Ginny is there we don't see the point. When we see her for the first time on platform 9 3/4 I wondered, why? Is it to show a wizard family? When she cried as the train pulled away, that seemed very odd. I became a H/G theorizer early on, as soon as reading the first 3 books in 2000. But the clues about Ginevra's future have be littered throughout the series, just so subtly. Harry's first day at the Burrow, Ron gives us a big hint when he says of Ginny -how weird of her to be shy- "she never shuts up normally". On this point I think there an "agree to disagree" viewpoint on Ginny. JKR is writing a story about Harry Potter. He is a high maintenance character. (Life-and-death struggle with ultimate bad guy Voldemort tends to take every moment of ones thoughts and energy).

Personality traits for other characters also are only hinted at. Hermione is smart, she understands human interaction and emotion, she can pull them apart and analyze them, Krum, Cho, Harry, gossipy roommates in OoTP. She understands her role in the wizard/muggle world and sets her priorities, spends summer with Weasley's in OoTP, goes to 12GP rather than skiing with family etc; Ron is a loyal friend despite his domination by his brothers, low self esteem due to family fortune, he is there for Harry when ever he needs him (immature moment in GOF not-with-standing). Ron and Hermione are strong well rounded characters but we still see very little of their inner struggles and daily conflicts, expect how they relate directly to Harry. With all that Hermione goes through and does, we see very little of her except when she is with Harry.

Ginny, like wise is a well rounded person with many character attributes and strengths. JK writes one or two sentences and leaves to us to fill-in the rest. Ginny is Luna's friend although others treat Luna badly, even Neville doesn't want to give Luna a chance initially. Ginny crashing into Zachary Smith at the end of the Quidditch match is just priceless, she doesn‘t scare easy, you can‘t intimidate her and she is not afraid to take action. And how many girls would put their feelings aside to try and help the boy she likes to get another girl that he likes? I contend that JK wants only to drop the hints and let us make some educated conclusions.

As far as Harry excluding Ginny from the inner secrets in the fight, well it was Hermione who waited until Ginny left. She was keeping Harry's secret that he cheated in potions all year. Then again, I can see all three of them conspiring to keep information away from Ginny to involve her more in -the fight-. Harry has made clear he wants her safely out of the way and Ron has the big brother protection instinct. I do find it interesting however, that the first time JK indicates openly a romantic tie between Harry in Ginny is at the end of OoTP. She has Ron advise Ginny to get someone -worthier- than her Zacharias Smith and has Ron give Harry a subconscious glance over.

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Die Zimtzicke - Feb 22, 2006 10:20 am (#1143 of 2152)

I agree that Harry didn't notice Ginny for a long time, but he went from not noticing her and telling her in OotP that she was too young to help him to having naughty dreams and chest monsters about her. I wish Jo had never used the chest monster...I really do.

I also have a problem with her saying Ginny had never gotten over Harry, not really. I wish she HAD, and then they had really gotten to know each other as very close friends first, before the chest monsters and the public kisses in front of 50 people came along.

And I wish she had not called Ginny an ideal. Ideals are not real to me. They are something to aspire to and work toward, but you're never in an ideal situation, at least not very often.

I did like it when Jo had Harry say in the book that being with Ginny was like living someone else's life, and when she said in the interview that they had to come together and part. I think the interlude with Ginny was to just show Harry what it would be like if he were just a normal boy with nothing else to think about but snogging and quidditch. That's not Harry's life. Even when he wins, if he wins, and still lives, he won't be ready to jump into a relationship, in my opinion. He takes awhile to process things he has been through. There's a pattern of that in the books.

I don't think she's a boy chaser...I don't know who said that, but neither do I think that most teenagers know what they want when they are 16. If I had married the guy I was madly in love with when I was 16, I would probably have killed him by now, and I'd be sitting in jail. You just don't know who you are at that age as a rule. Once in awhile it happens, but not often. If it did, we wouldn't have the divorce rates we do. I think if Jo believes all of her characters have set destinies at age ten or eleven, that's kind of a Calvinistic attitude and I'm not comfortable with it personally.

I don't see Ginny as Lily. I just can't wrap my head around that. She has fiery red hair and Lily had dark red hair, but that's as close as you get, aside from Jo saying they were both popular.

Ginny's more like James to me...a pureblood, who plays Quidditch, plays jokes, had a lot of confidence, and isn't above hexing someone just because they're being annoying.

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The One - Feb 22, 2006 4:45 pm (#1144 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
As some of the posters have remarked upon, Ginny's good sides are hinted at, more than shown, and to me that is not quite satisfactiory.

The other thing that make me say that Ginny is boring is her lack of flaws. Well, she does have them, she is a bit stubborn and hot-tempered, but again, this is things we must stop up and think to recognice as flaws. We see that how much Hermione loves Harry and wants to help him, her naggig nature does sometimes cause him to withdraw. Her flaw is inportant to the story, and thus to me as a reader. No such thing with Ginny. Her flaws are so cool that they earn her a place in the Slug Club

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Puck - Feb 22, 2006 8:31 pm (#1145 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
Again, we see through Harry's eyes. At this point he either doesn't notice Ginny's flaws, or finds them charming. (Face it, the things I liked so much about my hubby when we met are now the things that drive me nuts! )

I do like the idea of her having much in common with James, as well as Lily.

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Mrs. Sirius - Feb 22, 2006 9:20 pm (#1146 of 2152)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
(Face it, the things I liked so much about my hubby when we met are now the things that drive me nuts! )

Oh Puck too true, too true!

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Catherine - Feb 26, 2006 9:01 am (#1147 of 2152)

Canon Seeker
And I wish she had not called Ginny an ideal. Ideals are not real to me. They are something to aspire to and work toward, but you're never in an ideal situation, at least not very often. --Die Zimtzicke

JKR didn't actually say Ginny is an ideal. I think the distinction is important:

From the July 2005 TLC/Mugglenet interview: Well, no, not really, because the plan was, which I really hope I fulfilled, is that the reader, like Harry, would gradually discover Ginny as pretty much the ideal girl for Harry. She's tough, not in an unpleasant way, but she's gutsy. (emphasis mine)

Ginny is not a perfect person, but she may be perfect for Harry. Or she may represent Harry's conception of an ideal young woman.

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Solitaire - Feb 26, 2006 11:15 am (#1148 of 2152)

I agree that Jo meant ideal in the sense that Harry will need a woman who is not going to cringe in the face of danger. Face it ... if Harry survives, he will probably pursue a career with elements of excitement and danger. Ginny is the ideal partner, in that I can't see her trying to hold him back and keep him from doing dangerous things. Instead, she would probably join him in his adventures. Well, I think she would!

Solitaire

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Die Zimtzicke - Feb 26, 2006 6:04 pm (#1149 of 2152)

I don't think he will want to go on having a life of excitement and danger at all. If he survives, he will have had to have done and seen some awful things. And he hates publicity and attention. I think he'd probably take the money he inherited, and go live quietly for long time and work things through. I don't think he can be that quiet, introspective person with Ginny, that's all. They are both too stubborn and hot-headed to live a tranquil life.

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Solitaire - Feb 26, 2006 6:51 pm (#1150 of 2152)

I would certainly prefer a quiet life, if I were Harry. Somehow, though, I am not sure he will. Remember that he has said repeatedly that he wants to be an Auror. Yes, he may change his mind by the time this is all over. If that is the case, I can't see him with Ginny. But if he still wishes to pursue a career as an Auror, then Ginny is certainly a girl who would gladly join him in such a life. But I don't want to get into a 'shipping thing here.

Solitaire

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Puck - Feb 26, 2006 8:42 pm (#1151 of 2152)
Mommy, Queen of Everything
I think the thing about Ginny is that she is strong and independent in her own right. She doesn't need to have Harry -or any other boy- beside her. She makes her own choices. She doesn't have to be with someone adventurous, since she'll find her own adventure.

Ginny was shy and insecure when she started school. Over the years she has become more confident and thus finds it easier to just be herself. Really, it's hard to find characters in the series that don't have a positive reaction to her -apart from those on the DE side of things.

Of course, I may find her more developed as a character than some do because I relate to her in some ways, so perhaps I just kind of fill in the blanks as need be.

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Solitaire - Feb 26, 2006 9:22 pm (#1152 of 2152)

She doesn't have to be with someone adventurous

I think she does need someone adventurous. Ginny likes to push against boundaries, probably a result of growing up with Fred and George. I believe she would soon grow bored with a partner who preferred a calmer lifestyle and did not seek adventure and excitement at least to the extent she does. JM2K, of course ...

Solitaire

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Lina - Feb 26, 2006 11:33 pm (#1153 of 2152)

Kate's new T-shirt and henna tattoo
Well, I don't think at all that having seven children, like Ginny's parents, is a calm and tranquil life, rather dangerous and adventurous. It seems that adventure is in the Weasley blood, but it doesn't necessarily have to be the dark wizards hunting... JM2K

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Solitaire - Feb 26, 2006 11:46 pm (#1154 of 2152)

adventure is in the Weasley blood

Exactly, Lina! I don't think Ron would mind a quieter lifestyle ... but I can't see Ginny satisfied with too much quiet.

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Puck - Feb 27, 2006 8:36 am (#1155 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
Yes, but Ginny could become an auror or dragon tamer or some such herself, which would provide her with that excitement. She doesn't need to rely on a her partner to provide it for her. Now, she could never be with a worry wart or someone over protective. It drives her nuts when Molly does it, and we saw how she reacts when Dean or her brothers do the same.

Ginny is not so concerned, I think, with sharing all her adventures, but she doesn't want to be prevented from having them. (At this point I don't think anyone could stop her.)

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Weeny Owl - Feb 27, 2006 10:22 am (#1156 of 2152)

I don't really get the idea that Ginny needs adventure and wouldn't love a quiet lifestyle, but assumimg she does, she could always go to work for Fred and George, or as Puck said become a auror or work with dragons.

Her need for adventure doesn't have to be part of her love life any more than firefighters or law enforcement people need the same type of rush in their lives.

If JKR has aaid that Ginny is Harry's ideal, then whatever jobs and lifestle they choose will be right for them.

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Lina - Feb 27, 2006 11:35 am (#1157 of 2152)

Kate's new T-shirt and henna tattoo
What I tried to say was that being a stay at home mum with several children is not any less dangerous neither adventurous than taming the dragons...

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Netherlandic - Feb 27, 2006 11:37 am (#1158 of 2152)

Dangerous for mum or for the children?

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Lina - Feb 27, 2006 11:39 am (#1159 of 2152)

Kate's new T-shirt and henna tattoo
Actually, both.

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haymoni - Feb 27, 2006 11:42 am (#1160 of 2152)

Maybe Ginny will be a teacher at Hogwarts.

I always felt it was Neville, but there's no reason why Ginny couldn't teach there, too.

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Solitaire - Feb 27, 2006 11:45 am (#1161 of 2152)

LOL Lina! If your kids are anything like my students, I think I'd rather tame the dragons! As Puck (I think) mentioned above, a partner who was an over-protective worry-wart would drive Ginny crazy. So would a bureaucrat like Percy. That is kind of what I meant. I just can't see her with a quiet homebody for a life partner. Then again, a lot can happen between now and then to change her, I suppose.

Solitaire

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Chemyst - Feb 27, 2006 6:13 pm (#1162 of 2152)

"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Hm... I could see Ginny with a quiet homebody for a life partner, if he were someone like her dad– fairly unflappable and liking to go out to his workshop to tinker with stuff. Home would become her private little haven that way. But - for that to be the case, she would need the balance of an active, people-oriented job of her own during the day.

I agree with Solitaire, however, no bureaucrat like Percy! I just don't see her enjoying dutiful wife who does the cocktail parties and fund-raising functions for charity. (Which is what I think Percy would expect of Penelope.)

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Die Zimtzicke - Feb 27, 2006 8:08 pm (#1163 of 2152)

I have kids from graduate school age down to primary school age, and some days I'd rather have the dragons, but I don't know if the Harry/Ginny thing still won't have some twist to it that makes this a moot point. We'll see. I agree, it's not a shipping thread, but I don't think Ginny has any other purpose except as it relates to Harry. It's one of the things that bothers me about her.

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Mediwitch - Feb 28, 2006 5:26 pm (#1164 of 2152)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
Why would Ginny have another purpose? This is Harry's story, so the purpose of each character somehow relates to Harry. I guess I am just comfortable with Jo's statement about Harry and Ginny.

Edit: I'm really hoping that last statement doesn't sound inflammatory - it's not meant to be. It's just a statement of why I feel that Harry and Ginny will be together - 'cause Jo says so!.

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Saracene - Feb 28, 2006 9:51 pm (#1165 of 2152)

I gotta say that for me, Ginny's character does remain rather frustratingly thin. Yes, JKR gives her personality traits, and "moments" and such... but I just don't feel like they all gel together to create a fully realised character with her own distinct presence. I can't put my finger on it, but I feel like something is missing.

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Chemyst - Mar 1, 2006 6:27 am (#1166 of 2152)

"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
... I feel like something is missing. - Saracene

Yes, that would be book 7.

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Mrs Brisbee - Mar 1, 2006 8:47 am (#1167 of 2152)

I think I needed more Ginny in HBP. I agree, she needs more fleshing out if she is to be Harry's girlfriend. I like her and all, but right now I feel as if the concept of "The Girlfriend" is overshadowing the character "Ginny".

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Die Zimtzicke - Mar 1, 2006 1:36 pm (#1168 of 2152)

Yes, that's it. The concept that she was the girlfriend made her seem like sort of a plot device, instad of a girl who hopes, and dreams, aspirations and motivations.

I dislike the idea that HbP cannot be critiqued on its own, by the way. It is my least favorite book because it is NOT a book you can love for itself, like the other books were, and Ginny is a major part of that for me. I feel cheated by the departure from stories that could be read for themselves, replaced by this prequel to whatever.

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The One - Mar 1, 2006 3:09 pm (#1169 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
... I feel like something is missing. - Saracene

Yes, that would be book 7.

That might be of course. But Harry kicked her out of the story. The end of HBP was very trio oriented.

In HBP, Ginny might stay in the background and be reunited with Harry in the very end, in wich case she will not grow much thicker. Or she might reenter the story at some critical point far out in the story, in wich she will also have limited page space for fevelopment. Or she might come back and insist on following Harry, for instance from the wedding on. But I do not quite see the point of kicking her out of the story in the last chapter of one book, only to reinsert in the beginning of the next.

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Chemyst - Mar 1, 2006 5:06 pm (#1170 of 2152)

"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I feel cheated by the departure from stories that could be read for themselves, replaced by this prequel to whatever.

A full answer to this would probably belong on the Was anyone disappointed in Book 6? thread, but briefly, HBP seemed like an anthology of short stories from the Pensieve, or other geographically separate chapters, (eg. Spinner's End or The Cave.) Ginny, and many other classmates became segues between the stories.

If I were in JKR's position and wanted Ginny to end up with Harry, I don't think I'd have done much differently. I'd think her character almost has to be developed at a rate equal to Harry's awareness.

But I do not quite see the point of kicking her out of the story in the last chapter of one book, only to reinsert in the beginning of the next.

It could serve to show how Harry doesn't really know his own mind/heart.

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Czarina II - Mar 1, 2006 11:54 pm (#1171 of 2152)

I think that the 'kicking out' of Ginny in the last part of HbP only serves to demonstrate that the relationship between her and Harry is not simply 'teen love', or that they cannot have such a normal, mundane dating scheme. If/when Ginny is brought back into the action at the beginning of Bk7, she and Harry will relate to each other differently. There will be a connection between them, yes, but a serious, mature one. I think the chapter at the end of HbP was necessary to get past the 'Ginny as crush'/'Ginny as love interest' stage.

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Solitaire - Mar 2, 2006 8:06 am (#1172 of 2152)

Just because Harry has said he needs to stay away so as not to endanger her does not mean she is being "kicked out" of the book. I think Ginny will be right back in the thick of things in Book 7. Think about it ... did she stay behind at Hogwarts when the Trio headed to the DoM to rescue Sirius, even though she was admonished to do so? Nooooooooooo! I figure Ginny will do like Professor Higgins in Pygmalion says of women: She will listen very nicely then go out and do precisely as she likes! Just because she didn't cause a flap at the moment does not mean she is going to step quietly into the background. That would be very un-Ginny-like, if you ask me!

Solitaire

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Steve Newton - Mar 2, 2006 8:26 am (#1173 of 2152)

Librarian
She will listen very nicely then go out and do precisely as she likes!

I agree, Solitaire. That is why I noted that she never agreed to a break with Harry.

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K Stahl - Mar 2, 2006 9:42 am (#1174 of 2152)

Finally, Harry is beginning to mature. He is beginning to realize that it is serious stuff to be in Voldemort's wand sight. He is also apparently maturing in his relationship with Ginny. It is becoming in his eyes something more than a snogging exercise. His admonishment to Ginny that they will have to avoid each other for her protection is evidence of this. This means that Ginny with her propensity to insinuate herself into events might provide a vehicle to help drive the story in book 7.

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Puck - Mar 2, 2006 11:28 am (#1175 of 2152)

Mommy, Queen of Everything
Oh, I predict Ginny will be in very grave danger in book seven.

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Solitaire - Mar 2, 2006 1:28 pm (#1176 of 2152)

Ginny with her propensity to insinuate herself into events might provide a vehicle to help drive the story

Situ KaiDa, I think that is quite possible!

Solitaire

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cindysuewho45 - Mar 3, 2006 12:08 am (#1177 of 2152)

Hi all, I will have to go back and look, but I remember that in one of JKR's interviews she said Ginny was the 7th daughter of the 7th daughter. So that would be from Molly's side not her Dads, that the 7th power thing came from. Also yes, I like the Ginevra name too. It stands on its own. But Ginny is a sweet name for while she is young. I hope to see all of the 7th child plot in book 7. It would make for some good reading!!! And even if Harry is very, very powerful in the end, he could still use help with the DE's

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cindysuewho45 - Mar 3, 2006 2:48 am (#1178 of 2152)

Hi all, I've been reading on JKR's site and saw this. Arthur was only one of three brothers. So Ginny/Ginevra being the 7th etc. was for sure from Molly's side of the family. Molly was, Molly Prewett it talks about some of this in JKR's site under Extra Stuff. I'll go back and look some more at other things to see what we can find.

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The One - Mar 3, 2006 6:11 am (#1179 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
It could serve to show how Harry doesn't really know his own mind/heart.

The best way to do that is to let Harry end up with someone that is not Ginny!

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The One - Mar 3, 2006 7:17 am (#1180 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
Sorry for the double post.

There is one noteworthy thing about Ginny's role in Harry's quest that should be mentioned:

Ginny is, as by the end of HBP not a part of Harry's quest.

Harry describes at some point his relationship with Ginny as "if he was living someone else' life." I. E. Ginny is not really an important part of Harry's life, she is an escape from it.

This is supported by the fact that we never see her take part in the trio's discussions of Harry's quest, whenever we see the trio + Ginny, the subject at hand is general chatter. In fact, we even see Hermione wait to discuss the Half Blood Prince with Harry and Ron till after Ginny has left.

We also see that Harry decides to leave Ginny behind, as the final battle approaches. He does not leave Ron and Hermione behind in the same way. He accepts their help, and also plans to attend the meeting, not saving a second thought for Ginny.

This may of course be interpreted that Ron and Hermione, as mere friends, are expendable, while the Girl of his heart is not, but....

To me it means tha Ron and Hermione are a very important part of Harry's life and Harry's quest, while Ginny is so far a mere escape.

The time for escapes are over, Harry is collecting his closest and most trusted friends for the battle. Ginny was not among them.

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Solitaire - Mar 3, 2006 7:32 am (#1181 of 2152)

I think Harry will continue to rely on Ron and Hermione, because Dumbledore has sort of given them his stamp of approval. After six years of major ups and downs--hurt feelings, misunderstandings, jealousies, reconciliations, shared adventures--the bottom line is that Harry knows he can trust Ron and Hermione. When the chips are down, they will have his back as long as they are standing and can point a wand.

When you stop to think of it, both Ron and Hermione have walked into potential deathtraps with Harry from their very first year. Of course, Luna, Neville and Ginny did as much in OotP, so we may not have seen the last of these three as fellow DA warriors, either. It's just that Dumbledore knows from personal experience how difficult and dangerous finding and destroying the Horcruxes is going to be. I think he knew Harry would need help ... and he was telling him the right place to go for it. JM2K ...

Solitaire

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The One - Mar 3, 2006 8:26 am (#1182 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
In my last post, "meeting" should be wedding..

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Mrs Brisbee - Mar 3, 2006 8:54 am (#1183 of 2152)

Harry describes at some point his relationship with Ginny as "if he was living someone else' life." I. E. Ginny is not really an important part of Harry's life, she is an escape from it. --The One

I think you have a valid point here. At the end of OotP, we see the effect the Prophecy has on how Harry views himself. Hermione and Ron have been there for his whole journey. Harry chose at the beginning of HBP to keep them with him. By the end of HBP, Harry is giving up completely on "Harry" and taking on the mantle of "The One". What Harry hasn't been able to do yet is integrate his two personas, "Harry" and "The One". I think he needs to in order to successfully tackle Voldemort.

Has Ginny successfully integrated Harry's two personas in her mind? I think she has, though we don't know by what process. She started off with the hero worship, and by her own admission she never gave up on him even when dating other boys. We just don't know at what point she also started liking Harry for being Harry. They seem to have approached the relationship from opposite ends of the spectrum.

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The One - Mar 3, 2006 9:12 am (#1184 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
We just don't know at what point she also started liking Harry for being Harry.

There is one of my problems with the description of Ginny. (And the Ginny/Harry) relationship. Do we know that she has done so?

If we postulates the following story:

Ten year old girls thinks Hero is "hot". She pines for hero for years, Hero does not notice girl.

As years pass by, Hero notice that girl develops into a "hot" babe. Hero and Babe starts snogging, and enjoys a teenage relationship for a few weeks. End of story.

As I see it, there is nothing in the story about Ginny, or her relationship with Harry that contradicts such a story. We never see deep enough into her personality or in the interaction between her and Harry to dismiss it.

The main reason to think there is something more is that JKR appears to have said so, and that some of the appearant buildup seems meaningless if there is nothing more.

This might perhaps be better discussed on the shipping thread, but that is another of my problems with Ginny: To me she is defined only by her relationship with Harry.

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haymoni - Mar 3, 2006 10:57 am (#1185 of 2152)

I'm wondering what Molly has told her daughter about Harry.

Molly is very concerned about Harry's welfare - even from Book One - she tells Fred & George not to ask him about his scar.

If Ginny had been talking about Harry all summer before Year 2, I'm sure Ron told them what Harry said about life with the Dursleys which must have shocked Molly. She doesn't seem too concerned when her sons kidnap Harry - she doesn't even notify anybody - she seems to agree with the boys that they did the right thing, even though they flew a car to do it!

While Ginny may not have told her mother how she felt about Harry, she certainly would have seen her mother's reactions and felt some sympathy towards Harry.

He may be The Boy Who Lived to the rest of the Wizarding World, but to Molly, he was still just a boy without family or guidance who needed their help.

Maybe that enabled Ginny to see past the Hero.

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The One - Mar 3, 2006 11:17 am (#1186 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
Maybe that enabled Ginny to see past the Hero.

Maybe. There is a lot of maybes in Ginny and her relationship with Harry.

There might be a lot of different reasons that Ginny really understands Harry. Harry and Ginny may very well have shared a lot of deep moments, and found a lot of common ground.

But, if any such things did happen, the author does not seem to have found it important enough to spend page space on telling us.

That is what I do not get about Ginny and JKR presentation of her.

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frogface - Mar 3, 2006 11:35 am (#1187 of 2152)

I do think their relationship doesn't get much description in HBP, other than that it seems to be making Harry very happy. But at the funeral Harry saw Ginny as someone who understood him, and I think we should remember that it wasn't easy for him to end it with her.

"..and hour by hour, he put off saying the thing that he knew he must say, doing what he knew it was right to do, because it was too hard to forgo his best source of comfort".

"and he knew at that moment that they understood each other perfectly..."

She'll need a bit more fleshing out as a character in book 7, but I can see that happening. Just because Harry plans to keep Ginny safe by keeping her out of it, doesn't mean to say that she won't have plans of her own.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 3, 2006 12:02 pm (#1188 of 2152)

I believe, J.K. Rowling took for granted that the readers would simply accept her explanation of Ginny as being the perfect girl for Harry at face value, after the anticlimatic conclusion to the debate on Mark Evans. Perhaps, she did not feel the need or compulsion to explain every detail surrounding the development of the relationship between Harry and Ginny.

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Betelgeuse Black - Mar 3, 2006 12:04 pm (#1189 of 2152)

I'd like to make one point to the whole "if he was living someone else' life." thing.

I think that phrase is describing Harry being head over heels for Ginny. When I had that new first love feeling, it's was easy to see the world from a completely different viewpoint.

Harry's the hero. Of course he wants to protect his first love. That's what heros do. He hasn't grown up enough to realise that he can't protect her. If he realised that, he would never break up with her.

He's not even 17 yet. He's still growing up.

Betelgeuse

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Choices - Mar 3, 2006 12:20 pm (#1190 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
That was my impression of the.... "he felt like he was living someone else's life" comment. I think Harry has known so little real happiness and joy in his life that when he got together with Ginny, he felt so happy and joyful that he felt like he was experiencing or living someone else's life, not the lonely, abused life he was used to. She made him feel like he had never felt before - totally happy and loved.

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Mrs Brisbee - Mar 3, 2006 1:35 pm (#1191 of 2152)

Almost everything we know about Ginny we learned before the romantic relationship developed, and after Harry and Ginny get together we hardly see them interact. In OotP we saw Ginny connect with Harry on several occasions. She reminded him she had been possessed by Voldemort and allayed his fears, she was one of the few to stand up to him when he was in a snit, she helped him out when he wanted to contact Sirius, and she went to the DoM. She demonstrates her capabilities and mettle. At the beginning of HBP she reminds Harry about Riddle's diary, but by the end of HBP she isn't included the trio's discussions about the book.

I think the problem here is Harry's view that "The Girlfriend" is something Harry the person can have, but Harry the Hero cannot because of the danger. I think Harry has in his mind split off several facets of Ginny's personality too, even though she has continued to demonstrate her capabilities, to conform with his dichotomous view of himself.

Maybe once Harry accepts that Harry the person and Harry the Hero are one and the same, we'll see a Harry-Ginny relationship with more depth.

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haymoni - Mar 3, 2006 1:45 pm (#1192 of 2152)

I don't think that will happen until Voldy is gone.

He is not going to expose any more people that he loves to danger.

His love for Ron & Hermione is different. They are commrades in arms and have been since Year 1.

Voldy used Harry's relationship with Sirius to set him up. He can't let Voldy know that he is that close to Ginny or anyone else.

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The One - Mar 3, 2006 2:23 pm (#1193 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
I believe, J.K. Rowling took for granted that the readers would simply accept her explanation of Ginny as being the perfect girl for Harry at face value, after the anticlimatic conclusion to the debate on Mark Evans.

Do you think of the famous interview here?

The problem with that is that only very few of us knows JKR's sayings by heart. To most readers, if it is not in the books, it never happened.

"and he knew at that moment that they understood each other perfectly..."

This is interesting. Ginny's acceptance of Harry desire to leave her behind is the one indication of a deep bounding between them.

That is kind of ironic, isn't it? If Ginny does force herself upon Harry's quest, this indication of a deep bounding is false. If she does not, the hole feisty girlfriend serves very litle purpose, but to supply the hero with a girl to return to.

Of course, Ginny might become a target, and thus be forced to enter, but Ginny as damsel in distress is used already.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 3, 2006 3:39 pm (#1194 of 2152)

The One, I used the information from J.K. Rowling's website, a website which I would assert that most readers would have an awareness of its content.

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frogface - Mar 3, 2006 3:40 pm (#1195 of 2152)

"Ginny's acceptance of Harry desire to leave her behind is the one indication of a deep bounding between them."

I don't see it as acceptance though. In my view she understood that he was ending their relationship to protect her. But she never says "ok". She lets him walk away at the funeral, but she protests the break up.

Understanding and accepting aren't the same thing.

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Weeny Owl - Mar 3, 2006 3:54 pm (#1196 of 2152)

JKR could have spent much more time and energy exploring Harry and Ginny's relationship, except it isn't that important in the face of all that happened and will happen.

Out of everything Harry has gone through and will go through in the future, his love life isn't going to matter much unless it impacts his final confrontation with Voldemort.

Ginny has been lurking around for all of the books, and Harry has been getting to know her as her own person as opposed to Ron's sister or the girl with a crush.

How JKR deals with that doesn't matter to me. I'll take her word for it when she says Ginny is Harry's ideal. Whatever they discussed during their brief time together is between them, and if it cemented Harry's feelings, then that's fine with me.

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The giant squid - Mar 3, 2006 6:52 pm (#1197 of 2152)

I think the prime issue here is that you are expecting to get the inner workings of Ginny's thoughts & feelings in a book that is told from Harry's point of view. We aren'ttold when Ginny changed from hero worship to "liking Harry for Harry" because Harry doesn't know. This is the key. We only know what Harry knows (with a few exceptions, i.e. The Other Minister), and we only see the Ginny that Harry sees. Heck, we don't really know what's going through Ron or Hermione's heads either, except when Harry has a brief moment of insight.

Basically, what you're asking for can't be provided by the way JKR has written the book (Harry's POV). Unless he comes out and asks Ginny about her feelings, when and why she made certain decisions, we'll never know.

We'll just have to trust JKR that she's got the backstory to back it up, and that she'll tell us everything in her Encyclopedia HarryPottica.

--Mike
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Choices - Mar 3, 2006 7:20 pm (#1198 of 2152)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think you have a very good point there Mike. I read a good example the other night of Harry telling us what he sees happening, but it isn't correct. I am rereading SS/PS and Harry tells about Quirrell rushing into the Great Hall during the Halloween feast, yelling that a troll is in the dungeon and then fainting dead away. That's what Harry thinks he saw, but I'm sure it was just good acting on Quirrells part. Quirrell is the one who let the troll in to cause a diversion so he could hurry to the 3rd floor and try to get the stone. I would bet money that Quirrell only pretended to faint, but since we get the story from Harry's point of view, we are led to believe that he did indeed faint - passed out cold. Just makes me wonder how many other things we see from Harry's point of view that are not exactly as Harry thinks they are. Need I mention Snape, for one???

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Mediwitch - Mar 3, 2006 7:23 pm (#1199 of 2152)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
Well said, Mike and Choices. I couldn't agree with you more!

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The One - Mar 4, 2006 6:22 am (#1200 of 2152)

Open minded sceptic
I don't see it as acceptance though. In my view she understood that he was ending their relationship to protect her. But she never says "ok". She lets him walk away at the funeral, but she protests the break up.

Well, that distinction does not really matter in this case. Harry seems to expect her to accept, and afterwards he seems to believe that she has done so.

If Ginny early in book 7 insists on following him anyway, then they did not "understand each other perfectly" after all.

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