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Crookshanks' identity
Potteraholic Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:04 am
This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing, which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. It was copied/saved by Lady Arabella and reformatted/reposted by Potteraholic. ~Potteraholic
NOTE: Originally, the thread was called 'Crookshanks' identity' (see post #55). I changed it, for the sake of accuracy.
Tommy Lester - Apr 9, 2007 6:42 pm
Edited by Kip Carter Sep 25, 2007 2:41 pm
I am not sure if anyone else has thought about this. After reading and putting a lot of thought into it as well as researching Animagus it states that they can become an animal has the brain of an animal, and some rare ones can retain the mind of a human. Also that they are six who are not registered with the ministry. So the question I am posting is, does anyone else think that Crookshanks could be Regulus Black or R.A.B?
Last edited by Potteraholic on Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:15 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Crookshanks' identity (posts #1 - #58)
Potteraholic Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:05 am
virginiaelizabeth - Apr 9, 2007 9:37 pm (#1 of 58)
Edited Apr 9, 2007 10:38 pm
Honestly, I think it's highly unlikely. Jo has said that Crookshanks is part Kneazle, so that's the reason for his intelligence. There is also no evidence to support it. I don't mean to shoot down your theory, but I really don't see any evidence to support it. I fell like saying that Crookshanks is R.A.B. is no different than saying Hedwig, or Errol, or Pig is R.A.B.
Can you share some of your reasoning behind it? There may be something I've never noticed before.
Choices - Apr 10, 2007 9:21 am (#2 of 58)
Edited Apr 10, 2007 10:26 am
Actually others have proposed that Crookshanks is really Mundungus Fletcher as both are described as bandy legged and ginger haired. I honestly think Crookshanks is just a smart, part Kneazle cat.
I think Hermione tells us there are only 7 registered Animagi this century. We know of four unregistered - Rita Skeeter, Sirius, James and Peter.
Esther Rose - Apr 10, 2007 11:03 am (#3 of 58)
And we know of one registered. Professor McGonagall
So Sirius - Apr 10, 2007 12:03 pm (#4 of 58)
I think Crookshanks is very interesting. I also think using the word part, opposed to half Kneazle might be an indication he's more than Kneazle and cat. The possibility he's other things might be a consideration. I know a Kneazle is a smart, intuitive creature, but I don't know anything else about them. Were they once human? Could there be some human in him?
But, all that said, I think he will only play a part in the story, as much as all the other creatures and players. Buckbeak played a huge part in the story and still does, but I don't suspect he's part Animagus. I don't think we'll come to find another Scabbers with Crookshanks.
It would be nice to have it be R.A.B. though. I just don't see it.
Madam Pince - Apr 10, 2007 12:47 pm (#5 of 58)
Edited Apr 10, 2007 1:48 pm
I keep thinking there is more to Crookshanks than meets the eye. The whole "affection" thing going on between him and Sirius/Snuffles seemed odd to me -- or, well, if not odd, it just stood out to me. If he was really Regulus, then he'd be Sirius' brother and hence some reason for the affection, maybe? Hmmm...
I was one of the ones who got all excited about the Mundungus/Crookshanks speculation, but then it got shot down because there's a scene in OotP in the kitchen at 12 GP where the both of them are present, so it can't be. Sad, though. I really thought we were onto something there for a while.
journeymom - Apr 10, 2007 1:36 pm (#6 of 58)
I think 'bandy-legged' was a favorite term of JKR's for a while. Haven't you ever done that? Describe something as, for example, serendipitous and then use the same word in a different context a few paragraphs later.
Madam Pince - Apr 10, 2007 3:46 pm (#7 of 58)
I have indeed -- it's one of the reasons I'm such a terrible Scrabble player. I get a word that I "want to make" stuck in my head, and then I can't see any other possibilities for the life of me.
JKR has done that with a few other words (of course I can't think of them right now...) Bandy-legged was one for sure.
Laura W - Apr 10, 2007 5:19 pm (#8 of 58)
Edited Apr 10, 2007 6:48 pm
"Actually others have proposed that Crookshanks is really Mundungus Fletcher as both are described as bandy legged and ginger haired." (Choices)
But Crookshanks is so much smarter than Dung! (Grin)
Edited to Add -
According to Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (N. Scamander), "The Kneazle has an uncanny ability to detect unsavoury or suspicious characters ..." Heck, if Crookshanks really was Mundungus Fletcher he would be continuously turning himself in. (chuckling)
Laura
Choices - Apr 10, 2007 5:40 pm (#9 of 58)
I've got to agree with you on that point. And Crookshanks is probably a whole lot cleaner. LOL
Solitaire - Apr 10, 2007 7:20 pm (#10 of 58)
Edited Apr 10, 2007 8:21 pm
If you go to Jo's official site, enter the Text Version, and click on the Rumours section, you can do a search for Crookshanks. I did. This is what I found:
Crookshanks is an Animagus
No, he's not, but he's not pure cat either. If you buy Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (all royalties to Comic Relief, which means you're helping some of the poorest children around the world) you might just be able to work out what Crookshanks really is.
It doesn't sound like he is an Animagus.
Solitaire
azi - Apr 11, 2007 3:28 am (#11 of 58)
JKR has done that with a few other words (of course I can't think of them right now...) - Madame Pince
She did that with the word 'mate' in book 5. Drove me insane then, and it's still annoying me now.
Crookshanks is just...part Kneazle/part cat. I think his part has been played in PoA and now he just wanders into the story every so often.
Mrs. Sirius - Apr 11, 2007 6:28 am (#12 of 58)
Yes, azi, mate in OoTP and triumphant in both 4 and 5.
frogface - Apr 26, 2007 2:30 am (#13 of 58)
To be honest, if anyone else turns out to be an unregistered Animagus, or someone masquerading as someone else using Polyjuice potion, I'll be a bit disappointed with JKR. She's played those cards too many times now. I'm sure she's capable of coming up with something new (another Metamorphmagus that we didn't know about for instance).
Mrs. Sirius - Apr 26, 2007 6:13 am (#14 of 58)
Edited Apr 26, 2007 7:32 am
Interesting, I thought that the trio using the Polyjuice potion in COS, was designed to set us up for Mad Eye Moody. From very early on, I thought JK, introduces everything before she actually introduces the idea. (This relates to the subject at hand only in that we are discussing identity).
She showed us Mr. Weasley talking to Mr. Diggory's head in GOF before Harry used it with Sirius later in that book. She mentioned Sirius in book PS/SS, he was subject of POA, presented Minister of Magic Cornelius Fudge in COS he was important in POA and pivotal for GoF and OoTP, mentioned Azkaban in COS. Other topic are always at least mentioned if not thoroughly discussed before we see them used. McGonagall first introduces the idea of Animagus in PS/SS it comes into prominence in POA. I could go on.
We know right from the start that there is something odd about mad Mrs. Figgs and her cats. It isn't until OoTP that we see that are more than just cats. I don't recall that we are ever told directly that Mr. Tibbles and the rest are Kneazles but I think it is safe to assume. Although I also think that not all of her cats are Kneazles. I don't think a Kneazle would place itself where Mrs. Figg would trip over it.
Only in HBP was the use of Polyjuice potion, for me, a device that seemed oh, yes we have seen that before. JK seems to take a great deal of time to introduce and explore the use of new concepts before she puts them to use.
Madame Pomfrey - May 24, 2007 5:59 am (#15 of 58)
WE probably won't see anymore unregistered, but there are still 7 registered Animagi and we don't know who they are, except for McGonagall, do we?
Unregistered: James=stag Sirius=dog Peter=rat Rita=beetle
Registered: Minerva=cat
Am I missing someone?
Choices - May 24, 2007 9:47 am (#16 of 58)
Edited May 24, 2007 10:52 am
I have thought that in book 7 we are going to see several people revealed as being someone else. I read an interesting theory the other day that proposed that Crookshanks is really Regulus Black. Black isn't dead, but has been in hiding, possibly with Dumbledore's help. The theory suggested that it was Regulus Black as Crookshanks who sat with and protected Harry until Hagrid came to get him out of the ruins. We know in POA Crookshanks seemed to have a very close bond with Sirius. Is that because Crookshanks (Regulus) is Sirius's brother? In the Shrieking Shack, Crookshanks really protected Sirius when Harry wanted to kill him. The brother thing again? Crookshanks tried his best to get Scabbers (Peter) - is it because he knew that Scabbers (Peter) had betrayed Sirius's best friends? It's a very interesting theory and I will be curious to see if it proves true.
Mrs Brisbee - May 24, 2007 9:53 am (#17 of 58)
I can't see Dumbledore selling off Regulus Black in a pet shop.
I also don't think Rowling would have a grown male wizard hiding out in a dorm room full of teenage girls!
journeymom - May 24, 2007 11:11 am (#18 of 58)
Yes, it was bad enough for poor Ron that Scabbers/Peter had been sleeping on his bed.
JKR said in an interview that Crookshanks is a Kneazle. Kneazles are in her book of Fantastic Beasts. Therefore, Crookshanks isn't a human in Kneazle form. I'm being simplistic here but it works for me. My point is that Jo wouldn't have gone to the bother of introducing one of her clever original magical creatures in the form of Crookshanks, only to reveal that he was really a human all along. Besides, Kneazles have this unique ability to detect suspicious people.
Come to think of it, no one has had a magical beast Animagus form, yet, right? They're all common animals.
Mrs. Sirius - May 24, 2007 10:03 pm (#19 of 58)
Edited May 24, 2007 11:05 pm
I can't see Dumbledore selling off Regulus Black in a pet shop
ROTFL, Mrs Brisbee
I also don't think Rowling would have a grown male wizard hiding out in a dorm room full of teenage girls!
Point well taken.
If Regulus was Crookshanks, wouldn't Dumbledore have known about the horcrux and not bothered going for the one in the cave?
Solitaire - May 25, 2007 7:42 pm (#20 of 58)
Jo's statement that Crookshanks is a Kneazle seems pretty straightforward. She didn't quibble or sidestep.
Choices - May 26, 2007 9:40 am (#21 of 58)
So, is that it? We have solved the mystery of Crookshanks identity - he's a Kneazle. End of thread? Hmmmm....that was easy.
Critical Thinker - Jun 13, 2007 2:17 am (#22 of 58)
Just another question. Can Animagus see another Animagus or will they just see another animal? Crookshanks being able to detect suspicious persons; sensed the deception for ill will in Scabbers (Death Eater) and tried to kill him... but helped deception of Snuffles ill will (murdering Scabbers). Although both had evil intentions, why did Crookshanks try and kill the one trying to get away, versus the one who was trying to commit murder?
Choices - Jun 13, 2007 8:15 am (#23 of 58)
Kneazles are very intelligent creatures. I am sure that Crookshanks could sense that Scabbers/Peter was evil and that Snuffles/Sirius was innocent, even though he was intent on killing Peter for what he had done in the past.
Solitaire - Jun 13, 2007 11:32 am (#24 of 58)
I have a question about Remus which involves Crookshanks. Did Hermione take Crookshanks with her to visit the Weasleys at Christmas? If so, then the suggestion some have made--that Remus is really Peter or some other DE in Polyjuiced disguise--seems unlikely. Wouldn't Crookshanks have recognized an imposter at once, Polyjuice or no Polyjuice? I'd like to know more about whether Crookshanks could have detected such a switch.
Solitaire
(I have posted this on the Remus Lupin thread, as well, since I am not sure where the discussion might go.)
Hagsquid - Jul 3, 2007 4:31 pm (#25 of 58)
Well, we know that at least two of the registered Animagi can fly QA01.
Hedwig?
Steve Newton - Jul 4, 2007 4:06 am (#26 of 58)
While Hedwig's origins are somewhat obscure, I don't think that we know where he got him, I would guess Errol if an owl turns out to be an Animagus. Its already been the Weasley's once and if someone wanted to hide they could do worse that the Burrow. Except for Peter snooping around for 11 years. Maybe Errol doesn't work.
Hagsquid - Jul 4, 2007 4:20 am (#27 of 58)
The reason I chose Hedwig is the idea that the books are constantly noting how intelligent she is.
I just don't see why JKR would put the info in the books about how "some can fly" and "some can retain their human intelligence" unless it was at some point relevant to the plot.
Choices - Jul 4, 2007 9:27 am (#28 of 58)
Edited Jul 4, 2007 10:27 am
I just have to ask what would be the point of Hedwig being an Animagus? She is a magical creature, therefore she is intelligent and helpful to Harry. Throughout six books she has never given us reason to believe she is anything but an owl, Harry's pet and useful in delivering mail. Not everyone or everything in these books has a hidden identity. Those that do.....we usually find out pretty quickly and there are all sorts of hints along the way.
Hagsquid - Jul 4, 2007 12:59 pm (#29 of 58)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 6, 2007 9:36 pm
Yeah. Like with Scabbers! There were TONZ of hints on that one! Oh! Wait! I'm being sarcastic.
Characters have mentioned that Hedwig is a very smart owl (off the top of my head, Tom from the leaky cauldron), and the way she treats Harry and acts around him, she has near human emotions at times.
- This post was edited to remove a line of discussion that did not belong on the forum. - SE Jones
Choices - Jul 4, 2007 5:38 pm (#30 of 58)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 6, 2007 9:36 pm
Scabbers being an Animagus was an important part of the story and, looking back, there were hints from the get-go that something was up with the rat. I don't think the same can be said for the "Crookshanks is an Animagus" theory. If JKR springs that one on us in book 7, I will be very surprised. That's just my opinion and I am still in that line with my plate and spoon to accept my serving of crow if my ideas turn out to be **gasp** WRONG.
- This post was edited to remove a line of discussion that did not belong on the forum. - SE Jones
Hagsquid - Jul 4, 2007 6:05 pm (#31 of 58)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 6, 2007 9:37 pm
As for the Crookshanks being an Animagi; there is just as much evidence in the books that there's "something up" with Crookshanks as there was with Scabbers, nay more.
JKR has stated that he's just half Kneazle, but it wouldn't be the first time JKR said something to put us off the trail, nor would it be the first time that she went back on something she said.
- This post was edited to remove a line of discussion that did not belong on the forum. - SE Jones
zelmia - Jul 5, 2007 1:23 am (#32 of 58)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 6, 2007 9:41 pm
While Hedwig's origins are somewhat obscure, I don't think that we know where he got him
Hagrid got Hedwig from Eyelop’s Owl Emporium while Harry was getting his robes, as I recall. It was Hagrid's birthday prezzie to Harry.
There is nothing in the text to suggest that either Hedwig or Crookshanks are anything other than the magical creatures they are. By nature magical pets do seem to be far more intelligent than "Muggle" animals.
- This post was edited to remove a line of discussion that did not belong on the forum. - SE Jones
S.E. Jones - Jul 6, 2007 8:44 pm (#33 of 58)
The question of whether Hedwig is something more than an owl or not has been taken up in another thread: Hedwig. Please take all further discussion of the topic up there. Thank you.
T Vrana - Aug 5, 2007 5:18 pm (#34 of 58)
Edited Aug 5, 2007 6:19 pm
Hmmmm...I thought Jo said we were going to learn more about Crookshanks....Did I miss something in DH? Or am I wrong to have expected something?
Was he the Potter's missing cat???
Esther Rose - Aug 6, 2007 7:08 am (#35 of 58)
Edited Aug 6, 2007 8:08 am
Lets hope not T Vrana. The Potter cat would have had to have been at least 17 years old (if not older) by the time of DH. I don't know the life expectancy of a Kneazle but that is a pretty long life for a cat.
zelmia - Aug 6, 2007 10:10 am (#36 of 58)
Cats that are healthy and well-cared for routinely live into their late teens, and it is not uncommon for an ordinary cat to live to be as old as 20 - though they tend spend nearly every moment sleeping if they reach such a great age. For Crookshanks, being part Kneazle may give him an even longer life span, if the life expectancy of Wizards is any indication. But even without the "magical" life expectancy, it is certainly mathematically possible for Crookshanks to have been the Potters' cat.
Unfortunately, though, Sirius, who spends a lot of time with Crookshanks in PA, doesn't seem to recognise him. So I would say that Crookshanks is probably not the same cat Lily referred to in her letter to Sirius.
Orion - Aug 19, 2007 8:49 am (#37 of 58)
Where did Crookshanks go? He's not in DH, or have I missed something? And what happened to Pig?
Choices - Aug 19, 2007 9:10 am (#38 of 58)
Edited Aug 19, 2007 10:25 am
Crookshanks was with Hermione at the Burrow for the wedding. I imagine he stayed there when Hermione, Harry and Ron made their hurried departure afterwards.
"Hermione shrieked and dropped Secrets of the Darkest Arts; Crookshanks streaked under the bed, hissing indignantly...." Ch. The Ghoul in Pajamas - page 105 Scholastic hardcover
Madam Pince - Aug 19, 2007 7:10 pm (#39 of 58)
There was one mention of Pigwidgeon, too, early on I think. Just a quick something like "Pigwidgeon hooted softly in his cage," or similar. I remember I noticed it because I was all "Awwww... no Hedwig to be his buddy anymore..."
Choices - Aug 20, 2007 9:05 am (#40 of 58)
"'Where's Hedwig, Harry?' she said coaxingly. 'We can put her up with Pigwidgeon and give her something to eat.'"
There may be more, but that was the first one I found.
Madam Pince - Aug 20, 2007 5:26 pm (#41 of 58)
Yes, there's that one, and at the start of Chapter Seven it's Pigwidgeon was asleep with his head under his tiny wing. That's the last we hear of him, I think, so we don't find out what happens to him. I'm going to take the sunny outlook and assume he's fine.
But this is far astray from Crookshanks' Identity. And we still don't know what happened to Crookshanks in the end, either, I don't think.
Mrs. Sirius - Sep 15, 2007 7:43 pm (#42 of 58)
Crookshanks waited patiently with his in-laws-to-be until him mistress returned.
Karl Jackson - Sep 18, 2007 7:55 am (#43 of 58)
Edited Sep 18, 2007 8:59 am
I'm currently working on a sort of sequel, in which Harry, Hermione, Ron and a number of other students - including Draco - intend to return to Hogwarts to do their seventh year and their N.E.W.T.s, but fall afoul of an unwritten rule of school conduct called the Rule of Commitment.
The Rule, mentioned in Hogwarts: A History (when told about this, Ron mutters to Harry, "That explains why we've never heard of it"), states that once a student starts at Hogwarts, s/he must see it through; students who drop out for whatever reason aren't allowed to return.
Needless to say, this causes tremendous controversy...
Anyway, to return to the topic, i.e. Crookshanks, I came up with a quaint little theory, to wit: Lily's letter mentions their cat, and Harry's left wondering what happened to her. Well, what if she knew what had happened and decided it was her duty to try to find Harry and watch over him? And what if, while searching, she happened to meet a Kneazle? And what if, when the news broke that Harry Potter had returned, she was near the end of her natural life and hence had not the energy to search any further, but was still determined to safeguard Harry as much as she could?
Well, why not send her offspring - who would all be half-Kneazles - to do the job (I'm assuming the Potters' cat was a queen, but as long as s/he and the Kneazle were of opposite sexes, the theory still works!)? And what if one of them just happened to sneak into a certain shop in Diagon Alley and delude the proprietor into thinking he was part of her stock?
'Nuff said...
Joanna Lupin - Sep 18, 2007 10:08 am (#44 of 58)
Extremely far-fetched in my opinion
And about the sequel, Draco did not drop out of Hogwarts, it was mandatory for everyone except Muggle-borns.
Choices - Sep 18, 2007 10:32 am (#45 of 58)
Since Crookshanks is part Kneazle, his offspring would be more than part Kneazle if the mother was a Kneazle. However, since father cats do not usually take part in the raising of the kittens, I doubt seriously that Crookshanks would be around when the kittens came of age to send them on a "defend" Harry mission.
Also, I believe that if Harry, Ron and Hermione had wanted to return to Hogwarts and finish their magical education, they would have been welcomed with open arms. The MoM is now under new leadership and friendly to the school and respected by the magical world and I'm sure they would have applauded the trio's decision to finish school.
My response is based on what I think might logically happen in the books and not what might be written in "fanfic".
zelmia - Sep 18, 2007 12:59 pm (#46 of 58)
Edited Sep 18, 2007 2:00 pm
On the fanfic: I don't like fanfic to begin with, but I specifically disagree with that premise. From what we know of Hogwarts educational policies, it seems unlikely that such a rule would ever have been put in place.
But even so, Draco has already been mentioned, but why would the Trio suddenly feel the need to complete their education when they had been self-taught extremely well for the last year? Just to take the exam? Seems unlikely.
On the Crookshanks ancestry theory, I don't think this makes any sense. For one thing, we know that Crookshanks didn't do anything to help Harry. But even if it was the Crookshanks family mission to try to help Harry Potter (which I don't understand by itself), why would Crookshanks send himself to languish in a pet store on the off chance that one day, with luck, MAYBE Harry Potter would wander in? That doesn't make any sense to me.
haymoni - Sep 23, 2007 9:24 am (#47 of 58)
Goodness! Are we cynical or what??? Since when do fanfics make sense?
Like a story about a kid who was kept in a closet and suddenly finds out that he's a wizard from a half-giant who shows him mysterious places that nobody else can see and tells him he's going to a school that he's never heard of and oh-by-the-way, you are really famous because that car-crash-scar on your forehead is actually the result of a curse from the most evil wizard that ever lived, who also killed your parents, and is now lurking around somewhere biding his time and you survived but none of us knows why...yeah - that's not far-fetched!
Go for it, Karl! I'd like to think that the Potters' cat loved little Harry so much that she told her half-Kneazle children to be on the lookout for a dark-haired boy with a lightning bolt scar.
Choices - Sep 23, 2007 10:23 am (#48 of 58)
I have to agree with Zelmia - I am definitely not a fan of "fanfic". I HATE to see the characters I love degraded in sordid fanfics or otherwise used in ways contrary to the intent of the original creator (JKR) of these characters. I love the Harry Potter books and I have no desire to read some perversion of the original story or characters.
zelmia - Sep 23, 2007 12:51 pm (#49 of 58)
Edited Sep 23, 2007 1:52 pm
Since when do fanfics make sense? - Well, I guess that would be one reason why I don't like them. If you are going to write any story, you need to stay within the story's own parameters. For example, if you establish that Harry has green eyes you'd better not suddenly refer to Harry's steely blue eyes. If you exposit that Hermione is Muggle-born, you can't suddenly have her referring to her dear Uncle Bigglesworth who invented the self-stirring cauldron. This is particularly true if you are writing something based on existing material: you need to use the established paradigms.
The established paradigm in this case is that educational policies are set by the Ministry and/or the Board of Governors (OP and CS, respectively) and thus would not appear in "Hogwarts, a History" which has been given to be a guide to Hogwarts itself (i.e. "Chamber of Secrets", "Enchanted Ceiling").
The other parameter in place is that the Ministry is now under control of Kingsley Shacklebolt, who knew and fought with the Trio against Voldemort. It would therefore be exceedingly unlikely that the Ministry would suddenly deny the Trio - Harry in particular - the simple request to complete their formal education, should they wish to do so.
If it's "cynical" for me to require consistency and critical thinking from a writer, than I am guilty as charged.
megfox* - Sep 23, 2007 5:28 pm (#50 of 58)
I am gently nudging this conversation back to Crookshanks' identity. That is the purpose of this thread. If you would like to discuss fanfiction, we have an entire Forum dedicated to it - there is a link at the top of the Forum. If you wish to add more to the conversation about the possibilities of who Crookshanks really was, you may continue to post! Thanks!
PeskyPixie - Sep 24, 2007 10:29 am (#51 of 58)
I think Crookshanks was a stray Kneazle-cat who was very fortunate to be adopted my Hermione
Luna Logic - Sep 25, 2007 12:09 am (#52 of 58)
I agree! Crookshank is Crookshank! And I think the Potter cat did survive to the destruction at Godric's Hollow and was adopted by Bathilda Bagshot.
PeskyPixie - Sep 25, 2007 4:37 pm (#53 of 58)
Edited Sep 25, 2007 5:40 pm
Is his name 'Crookshank' or 'Crookshanks'? I know it doesn't really matter, but little things really bother me (once I got up in the middle of the night to re-arrange a box of markers!).
I suppose I could walk over a few steps and check it for myself, but I'm in too lazy a mood at the moment.
I could imagine Bathilda looking after the Potters' cat if it did survive.
Choices - Sep 25, 2007 4:48 pm (#54 of 58)
Crookshanks
Luna Logic - Sep 25, 2007 10:19 pm (#55 of 58)
I had written Crookshanks, then I had a doubt, so I looked at the thread title (Crookshanks’ identity) and changed for Crookshank!
Choices - Sep 26, 2007 11:40 am (#56 of 58)
"Hermione shrieked and dropped Secrets of the Darkest Arts: Crookshanks streaked under the bed, hissing indignantly;"
Orion - Sep 26, 2007 11:44 am (#57 of 58)
Definitely Crookshanks. Crookshanks’ must have been a typo.
PeskyPixie - Sep 27, 2007 6:37 am (#58 of 58)
It is just so 'me' to sway the discussion in this direction. Sorry about that.
Edited Apr 9, 2007 10:38 pm
Honestly, I think it's highly unlikely. Jo has said that Crookshanks is part Kneazle, so that's the reason for his intelligence. There is also no evidence to support it. I don't mean to shoot down your theory, but I really don't see any evidence to support it. I fell like saying that Crookshanks is R.A.B. is no different than saying Hedwig, or Errol, or Pig is R.A.B.
Can you share some of your reasoning behind it? There may be something I've never noticed before.
Choices - Apr 10, 2007 9:21 am (#2 of 58)
Edited Apr 10, 2007 10:26 am
Actually others have proposed that Crookshanks is really Mundungus Fletcher as both are described as bandy legged and ginger haired. I honestly think Crookshanks is just a smart, part Kneazle cat.
I think Hermione tells us there are only 7 registered Animagi this century. We know of four unregistered - Rita Skeeter, Sirius, James and Peter.
Esther Rose - Apr 10, 2007 11:03 am (#3 of 58)
And we know of one registered. Professor McGonagall
So Sirius - Apr 10, 2007 12:03 pm (#4 of 58)
I think Crookshanks is very interesting. I also think using the word part, opposed to half Kneazle might be an indication he's more than Kneazle and cat. The possibility he's other things might be a consideration. I know a Kneazle is a smart, intuitive creature, but I don't know anything else about them. Were they once human? Could there be some human in him?
But, all that said, I think he will only play a part in the story, as much as all the other creatures and players. Buckbeak played a huge part in the story and still does, but I don't suspect he's part Animagus. I don't think we'll come to find another Scabbers with Crookshanks.
It would be nice to have it be R.A.B. though. I just don't see it.
Madam Pince - Apr 10, 2007 12:47 pm (#5 of 58)
Edited Apr 10, 2007 1:48 pm
I keep thinking there is more to Crookshanks than meets the eye. The whole "affection" thing going on between him and Sirius/Snuffles seemed odd to me -- or, well, if not odd, it just stood out to me. If he was really Regulus, then he'd be Sirius' brother and hence some reason for the affection, maybe? Hmmm...
I was one of the ones who got all excited about the Mundungus/Crookshanks speculation, but then it got shot down because there's a scene in OotP in the kitchen at 12 GP where the both of them are present, so it can't be. Sad, though. I really thought we were onto something there for a while.
journeymom - Apr 10, 2007 1:36 pm (#6 of 58)
I think 'bandy-legged' was a favorite term of JKR's for a while. Haven't you ever done that? Describe something as, for example, serendipitous and then use the same word in a different context a few paragraphs later.
Madam Pince - Apr 10, 2007 3:46 pm (#7 of 58)
I have indeed -- it's one of the reasons I'm such a terrible Scrabble player. I get a word that I "want to make" stuck in my head, and then I can't see any other possibilities for the life of me.
JKR has done that with a few other words (of course I can't think of them right now...) Bandy-legged was one for sure.
Laura W - Apr 10, 2007 5:19 pm (#8 of 58)
Edited Apr 10, 2007 6:48 pm
"Actually others have proposed that Crookshanks is really Mundungus Fletcher as both are described as bandy legged and ginger haired." (Choices)
But Crookshanks is so much smarter than Dung! (Grin)
Edited to Add -
According to Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (N. Scamander), "The Kneazle has an uncanny ability to detect unsavoury or suspicious characters ..." Heck, if Crookshanks really was Mundungus Fletcher he would be continuously turning himself in. (chuckling)
Laura
Choices - Apr 10, 2007 5:40 pm (#9 of 58)
I've got to agree with you on that point. And Crookshanks is probably a whole lot cleaner. LOL
Solitaire - Apr 10, 2007 7:20 pm (#10 of 58)
Edited Apr 10, 2007 8:21 pm
If you go to Jo's official site, enter the Text Version, and click on the Rumours section, you can do a search for Crookshanks. I did. This is what I found:
Crookshanks is an Animagus
No, he's not, but he's not pure cat either. If you buy Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (all royalties to Comic Relief, which means you're helping some of the poorest children around the world) you might just be able to work out what Crookshanks really is.
It doesn't sound like he is an Animagus.
Solitaire
azi - Apr 11, 2007 3:28 am (#11 of 58)
JKR has done that with a few other words (of course I can't think of them right now...) - Madame Pince
She did that with the word 'mate' in book 5. Drove me insane then, and it's still annoying me now.
Crookshanks is just...part Kneazle/part cat. I think his part has been played in PoA and now he just wanders into the story every so often.
Mrs. Sirius - Apr 11, 2007 6:28 am (#12 of 58)
Yes, azi, mate in OoTP and triumphant in both 4 and 5.
frogface - Apr 26, 2007 2:30 am (#13 of 58)
To be honest, if anyone else turns out to be an unregistered Animagus, or someone masquerading as someone else using Polyjuice potion, I'll be a bit disappointed with JKR. She's played those cards too many times now. I'm sure she's capable of coming up with something new (another Metamorphmagus that we didn't know about for instance).
Mrs. Sirius - Apr 26, 2007 6:13 am (#14 of 58)
Edited Apr 26, 2007 7:32 am
Interesting, I thought that the trio using the Polyjuice potion in COS, was designed to set us up for Mad Eye Moody. From very early on, I thought JK, introduces everything before she actually introduces the idea. (This relates to the subject at hand only in that we are discussing identity).
She showed us Mr. Weasley talking to Mr. Diggory's head in GOF before Harry used it with Sirius later in that book. She mentioned Sirius in book PS/SS, he was subject of POA, presented Minister of Magic Cornelius Fudge in COS he was important in POA and pivotal for GoF and OoTP, mentioned Azkaban in COS. Other topic are always at least mentioned if not thoroughly discussed before we see them used. McGonagall first introduces the idea of Animagus in PS/SS it comes into prominence in POA. I could go on.
We know right from the start that there is something odd about mad Mrs. Figgs and her cats. It isn't until OoTP that we see that are more than just cats. I don't recall that we are ever told directly that Mr. Tibbles and the rest are Kneazles but I think it is safe to assume. Although I also think that not all of her cats are Kneazles. I don't think a Kneazle would place itself where Mrs. Figg would trip over it.
Only in HBP was the use of Polyjuice potion, for me, a device that seemed oh, yes we have seen that before. JK seems to take a great deal of time to introduce and explore the use of new concepts before she puts them to use.
Madame Pomfrey - May 24, 2007 5:59 am (#15 of 58)
WE probably won't see anymore unregistered, but there are still 7 registered Animagi and we don't know who they are, except for McGonagall, do we?
Unregistered: James=stag Sirius=dog Peter=rat Rita=beetle
Registered: Minerva=cat
Am I missing someone?
Choices - May 24, 2007 9:47 am (#16 of 58)
Edited May 24, 2007 10:52 am
I have thought that in book 7 we are going to see several people revealed as being someone else. I read an interesting theory the other day that proposed that Crookshanks is really Regulus Black. Black isn't dead, but has been in hiding, possibly with Dumbledore's help. The theory suggested that it was Regulus Black as Crookshanks who sat with and protected Harry until Hagrid came to get him out of the ruins. We know in POA Crookshanks seemed to have a very close bond with Sirius. Is that because Crookshanks (Regulus) is Sirius's brother? In the Shrieking Shack, Crookshanks really protected Sirius when Harry wanted to kill him. The brother thing again? Crookshanks tried his best to get Scabbers (Peter) - is it because he knew that Scabbers (Peter) had betrayed Sirius's best friends? It's a very interesting theory and I will be curious to see if it proves true.
Mrs Brisbee - May 24, 2007 9:53 am (#17 of 58)
I can't see Dumbledore selling off Regulus Black in a pet shop.
I also don't think Rowling would have a grown male wizard hiding out in a dorm room full of teenage girls!
journeymom - May 24, 2007 11:11 am (#18 of 58)
Yes, it was bad enough for poor Ron that Scabbers/Peter had been sleeping on his bed.
JKR said in an interview that Crookshanks is a Kneazle. Kneazles are in her book of Fantastic Beasts. Therefore, Crookshanks isn't a human in Kneazle form. I'm being simplistic here but it works for me. My point is that Jo wouldn't have gone to the bother of introducing one of her clever original magical creatures in the form of Crookshanks, only to reveal that he was really a human all along. Besides, Kneazles have this unique ability to detect suspicious people.
Come to think of it, no one has had a magical beast Animagus form, yet, right? They're all common animals.
Mrs. Sirius - May 24, 2007 10:03 pm (#19 of 58)
Edited May 24, 2007 11:05 pm
I can't see Dumbledore selling off Regulus Black in a pet shop
ROTFL, Mrs Brisbee
I also don't think Rowling would have a grown male wizard hiding out in a dorm room full of teenage girls!
Point well taken.
If Regulus was Crookshanks, wouldn't Dumbledore have known about the horcrux and not bothered going for the one in the cave?
Solitaire - May 25, 2007 7:42 pm (#20 of 58)
Jo's statement that Crookshanks is a Kneazle seems pretty straightforward. She didn't quibble or sidestep.
Choices - May 26, 2007 9:40 am (#21 of 58)
So, is that it? We have solved the mystery of Crookshanks identity - he's a Kneazle. End of thread? Hmmmm....that was easy.
Critical Thinker - Jun 13, 2007 2:17 am (#22 of 58)
Just another question. Can Animagus see another Animagus or will they just see another animal? Crookshanks being able to detect suspicious persons; sensed the deception for ill will in Scabbers (Death Eater) and tried to kill him... but helped deception of Snuffles ill will (murdering Scabbers). Although both had evil intentions, why did Crookshanks try and kill the one trying to get away, versus the one who was trying to commit murder?
Choices - Jun 13, 2007 8:15 am (#23 of 58)
Kneazles are very intelligent creatures. I am sure that Crookshanks could sense that Scabbers/Peter was evil and that Snuffles/Sirius was innocent, even though he was intent on killing Peter for what he had done in the past.
Solitaire - Jun 13, 2007 11:32 am (#24 of 58)
I have a question about Remus which involves Crookshanks. Did Hermione take Crookshanks with her to visit the Weasleys at Christmas? If so, then the suggestion some have made--that Remus is really Peter or some other DE in Polyjuiced disguise--seems unlikely. Wouldn't Crookshanks have recognized an imposter at once, Polyjuice or no Polyjuice? I'd like to know more about whether Crookshanks could have detected such a switch.
Solitaire
(I have posted this on the Remus Lupin thread, as well, since I am not sure where the discussion might go.)
Hagsquid - Jul 3, 2007 4:31 pm (#25 of 58)
Well, we know that at least two of the registered Animagi can fly QA01.
Hedwig?
Steve Newton - Jul 4, 2007 4:06 am (#26 of 58)
While Hedwig's origins are somewhat obscure, I don't think that we know where he got him, I would guess Errol if an owl turns out to be an Animagus. Its already been the Weasley's once and if someone wanted to hide they could do worse that the Burrow. Except for Peter snooping around for 11 years. Maybe Errol doesn't work.
Hagsquid - Jul 4, 2007 4:20 am (#27 of 58)
The reason I chose Hedwig is the idea that the books are constantly noting how intelligent she is.
I just don't see why JKR would put the info in the books about how "some can fly" and "some can retain their human intelligence" unless it was at some point relevant to the plot.
Choices - Jul 4, 2007 9:27 am (#28 of 58)
Edited Jul 4, 2007 10:27 am
I just have to ask what would be the point of Hedwig being an Animagus? She is a magical creature, therefore she is intelligent and helpful to Harry. Throughout six books she has never given us reason to believe she is anything but an owl, Harry's pet and useful in delivering mail. Not everyone or everything in these books has a hidden identity. Those that do.....we usually find out pretty quickly and there are all sorts of hints along the way.
Hagsquid - Jul 4, 2007 12:59 pm (#29 of 58)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 6, 2007 9:36 pm
Yeah. Like with Scabbers! There were TONZ of hints on that one! Oh! Wait! I'm being sarcastic.
Characters have mentioned that Hedwig is a very smart owl (off the top of my head, Tom from the leaky cauldron), and the way she treats Harry and acts around him, she has near human emotions at times.
- This post was edited to remove a line of discussion that did not belong on the forum. - SE Jones
Choices - Jul 4, 2007 5:38 pm (#30 of 58)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 6, 2007 9:36 pm
Scabbers being an Animagus was an important part of the story and, looking back, there were hints from the get-go that something was up with the rat. I don't think the same can be said for the "Crookshanks is an Animagus" theory. If JKR springs that one on us in book 7, I will be very surprised. That's just my opinion and I am still in that line with my plate and spoon to accept my serving of crow if my ideas turn out to be **gasp** WRONG.
- This post was edited to remove a line of discussion that did not belong on the forum. - SE Jones
Hagsquid - Jul 4, 2007 6:05 pm (#31 of 58)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 6, 2007 9:37 pm
As for the Crookshanks being an Animagi; there is just as much evidence in the books that there's "something up" with Crookshanks as there was with Scabbers, nay more.
JKR has stated that he's just half Kneazle, but it wouldn't be the first time JKR said something to put us off the trail, nor would it be the first time that she went back on something she said.
- This post was edited to remove a line of discussion that did not belong on the forum. - SE Jones
zelmia - Jul 5, 2007 1:23 am (#32 of 58)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 6, 2007 9:41 pm
While Hedwig's origins are somewhat obscure, I don't think that we know where he got him
Hagrid got Hedwig from Eyelop’s Owl Emporium while Harry was getting his robes, as I recall. It was Hagrid's birthday prezzie to Harry.
There is nothing in the text to suggest that either Hedwig or Crookshanks are anything other than the magical creatures they are. By nature magical pets do seem to be far more intelligent than "Muggle" animals.
- This post was edited to remove a line of discussion that did not belong on the forum. - SE Jones
S.E. Jones - Jul 6, 2007 8:44 pm (#33 of 58)
The question of whether Hedwig is something more than an owl or not has been taken up in another thread: Hedwig. Please take all further discussion of the topic up there. Thank you.
T Vrana - Aug 5, 2007 5:18 pm (#34 of 58)
Edited Aug 5, 2007 6:19 pm
Hmmmm...I thought Jo said we were going to learn more about Crookshanks....Did I miss something in DH? Or am I wrong to have expected something?
Was he the Potter's missing cat???
Esther Rose - Aug 6, 2007 7:08 am (#35 of 58)
Edited Aug 6, 2007 8:08 am
Lets hope not T Vrana. The Potter cat would have had to have been at least 17 years old (if not older) by the time of DH. I don't know the life expectancy of a Kneazle but that is a pretty long life for a cat.
zelmia - Aug 6, 2007 10:10 am (#36 of 58)
Cats that are healthy and well-cared for routinely live into their late teens, and it is not uncommon for an ordinary cat to live to be as old as 20 - though they tend spend nearly every moment sleeping if they reach such a great age. For Crookshanks, being part Kneazle may give him an even longer life span, if the life expectancy of Wizards is any indication. But even without the "magical" life expectancy, it is certainly mathematically possible for Crookshanks to have been the Potters' cat.
Unfortunately, though, Sirius, who spends a lot of time with Crookshanks in PA, doesn't seem to recognise him. So I would say that Crookshanks is probably not the same cat Lily referred to in her letter to Sirius.
Orion - Aug 19, 2007 8:49 am (#37 of 58)
Where did Crookshanks go? He's not in DH, or have I missed something? And what happened to Pig?
Choices - Aug 19, 2007 9:10 am (#38 of 58)
Edited Aug 19, 2007 10:25 am
Crookshanks was with Hermione at the Burrow for the wedding. I imagine he stayed there when Hermione, Harry and Ron made their hurried departure afterwards.
"Hermione shrieked and dropped Secrets of the Darkest Arts; Crookshanks streaked under the bed, hissing indignantly...." Ch. The Ghoul in Pajamas - page 105 Scholastic hardcover
Madam Pince - Aug 19, 2007 7:10 pm (#39 of 58)
There was one mention of Pigwidgeon, too, early on I think. Just a quick something like "Pigwidgeon hooted softly in his cage," or similar. I remember I noticed it because I was all "Awwww... no Hedwig to be his buddy anymore..."
Choices - Aug 20, 2007 9:05 am (#40 of 58)
"'Where's Hedwig, Harry?' she said coaxingly. 'We can put her up with Pigwidgeon and give her something to eat.'"
There may be more, but that was the first one I found.
Madam Pince - Aug 20, 2007 5:26 pm (#41 of 58)
Yes, there's that one, and at the start of Chapter Seven it's Pigwidgeon was asleep with his head under his tiny wing. That's the last we hear of him, I think, so we don't find out what happens to him. I'm going to take the sunny outlook and assume he's fine.
But this is far astray from Crookshanks' Identity. And we still don't know what happened to Crookshanks in the end, either, I don't think.
Mrs. Sirius - Sep 15, 2007 7:43 pm (#42 of 58)
Crookshanks waited patiently with his in-laws-to-be until him mistress returned.
Karl Jackson - Sep 18, 2007 7:55 am (#43 of 58)
Edited Sep 18, 2007 8:59 am
I'm currently working on a sort of sequel, in which Harry, Hermione, Ron and a number of other students - including Draco - intend to return to Hogwarts to do their seventh year and their N.E.W.T.s, but fall afoul of an unwritten rule of school conduct called the Rule of Commitment.
The Rule, mentioned in Hogwarts: A History (when told about this, Ron mutters to Harry, "That explains why we've never heard of it"), states that once a student starts at Hogwarts, s/he must see it through; students who drop out for whatever reason aren't allowed to return.
Needless to say, this causes tremendous controversy...
Anyway, to return to the topic, i.e. Crookshanks, I came up with a quaint little theory, to wit: Lily's letter mentions their cat, and Harry's left wondering what happened to her. Well, what if she knew what had happened and decided it was her duty to try to find Harry and watch over him? And what if, while searching, she happened to meet a Kneazle? And what if, when the news broke that Harry Potter had returned, she was near the end of her natural life and hence had not the energy to search any further, but was still determined to safeguard Harry as much as she could?
Well, why not send her offspring - who would all be half-Kneazles - to do the job (I'm assuming the Potters' cat was a queen, but as long as s/he and the Kneazle were of opposite sexes, the theory still works!)? And what if one of them just happened to sneak into a certain shop in Diagon Alley and delude the proprietor into thinking he was part of her stock?
'Nuff said...
Joanna Lupin - Sep 18, 2007 10:08 am (#44 of 58)
Extremely far-fetched in my opinion
And about the sequel, Draco did not drop out of Hogwarts, it was mandatory for everyone except Muggle-borns.
Choices - Sep 18, 2007 10:32 am (#45 of 58)
Since Crookshanks is part Kneazle, his offspring would be more than part Kneazle if the mother was a Kneazle. However, since father cats do not usually take part in the raising of the kittens, I doubt seriously that Crookshanks would be around when the kittens came of age to send them on a "defend" Harry mission.
Also, I believe that if Harry, Ron and Hermione had wanted to return to Hogwarts and finish their magical education, they would have been welcomed with open arms. The MoM is now under new leadership and friendly to the school and respected by the magical world and I'm sure they would have applauded the trio's decision to finish school.
My response is based on what I think might logically happen in the books and not what might be written in "fanfic".
zelmia - Sep 18, 2007 12:59 pm (#46 of 58)
Edited Sep 18, 2007 2:00 pm
On the fanfic: I don't like fanfic to begin with, but I specifically disagree with that premise. From what we know of Hogwarts educational policies, it seems unlikely that such a rule would ever have been put in place.
But even so, Draco has already been mentioned, but why would the Trio suddenly feel the need to complete their education when they had been self-taught extremely well for the last year? Just to take the exam? Seems unlikely.
On the Crookshanks ancestry theory, I don't think this makes any sense. For one thing, we know that Crookshanks didn't do anything to help Harry. But even if it was the Crookshanks family mission to try to help Harry Potter (which I don't understand by itself), why would Crookshanks send himself to languish in a pet store on the off chance that one day, with luck, MAYBE Harry Potter would wander in? That doesn't make any sense to me.
haymoni - Sep 23, 2007 9:24 am (#47 of 58)
Goodness! Are we cynical or what??? Since when do fanfics make sense?
Like a story about a kid who was kept in a closet and suddenly finds out that he's a wizard from a half-giant who shows him mysterious places that nobody else can see and tells him he's going to a school that he's never heard of and oh-by-the-way, you are really famous because that car-crash-scar on your forehead is actually the result of a curse from the most evil wizard that ever lived, who also killed your parents, and is now lurking around somewhere biding his time and you survived but none of us knows why...yeah - that's not far-fetched!
Go for it, Karl! I'd like to think that the Potters' cat loved little Harry so much that she told her half-Kneazle children to be on the lookout for a dark-haired boy with a lightning bolt scar.
Choices - Sep 23, 2007 10:23 am (#48 of 58)
I have to agree with Zelmia - I am definitely not a fan of "fanfic". I HATE to see the characters I love degraded in sordid fanfics or otherwise used in ways contrary to the intent of the original creator (JKR) of these characters. I love the Harry Potter books and I have no desire to read some perversion of the original story or characters.
zelmia - Sep 23, 2007 12:51 pm (#49 of 58)
Edited Sep 23, 2007 1:52 pm
Since when do fanfics make sense? - Well, I guess that would be one reason why I don't like them. If you are going to write any story, you need to stay within the story's own parameters. For example, if you establish that Harry has green eyes you'd better not suddenly refer to Harry's steely blue eyes. If you exposit that Hermione is Muggle-born, you can't suddenly have her referring to her dear Uncle Bigglesworth who invented the self-stirring cauldron. This is particularly true if you are writing something based on existing material: you need to use the established paradigms.
The established paradigm in this case is that educational policies are set by the Ministry and/or the Board of Governors (OP and CS, respectively) and thus would not appear in "Hogwarts, a History" which has been given to be a guide to Hogwarts itself (i.e. "Chamber of Secrets", "Enchanted Ceiling").
The other parameter in place is that the Ministry is now under control of Kingsley Shacklebolt, who knew and fought with the Trio against Voldemort. It would therefore be exceedingly unlikely that the Ministry would suddenly deny the Trio - Harry in particular - the simple request to complete their formal education, should they wish to do so.
If it's "cynical" for me to require consistency and critical thinking from a writer, than I am guilty as charged.
megfox* - Sep 23, 2007 5:28 pm (#50 of 58)
I am gently nudging this conversation back to Crookshanks' identity. That is the purpose of this thread. If you would like to discuss fanfiction, we have an entire Forum dedicated to it - there is a link at the top of the Forum. If you wish to add more to the conversation about the possibilities of who Crookshanks really was, you may continue to post! Thanks!
PeskyPixie - Sep 24, 2007 10:29 am (#51 of 58)
I think Crookshanks was a stray Kneazle-cat who was very fortunate to be adopted my Hermione
Luna Logic - Sep 25, 2007 12:09 am (#52 of 58)
I agree! Crookshank is Crookshank! And I think the Potter cat did survive to the destruction at Godric's Hollow and was adopted by Bathilda Bagshot.
PeskyPixie - Sep 25, 2007 4:37 pm (#53 of 58)
Edited Sep 25, 2007 5:40 pm
Is his name 'Crookshank' or 'Crookshanks'? I know it doesn't really matter, but little things really bother me (once I got up in the middle of the night to re-arrange a box of markers!).
I suppose I could walk over a few steps and check it for myself, but I'm in too lazy a mood at the moment.
I could imagine Bathilda looking after the Potters' cat if it did survive.
Choices - Sep 25, 2007 4:48 pm (#54 of 58)
Crookshanks
Luna Logic - Sep 25, 2007 10:19 pm (#55 of 58)
I had written Crookshanks, then I had a doubt, so I looked at the thread title (Crookshanks’ identity) and changed for Crookshank!
Choices - Sep 26, 2007 11:40 am (#56 of 58)
"Hermione shrieked and dropped Secrets of the Darkest Arts: Crookshanks streaked under the bed, hissing indignantly;"
Orion - Sep 26, 2007 11:44 am (#57 of 58)
Definitely Crookshanks. Crookshanks’ must have been a typo.
PeskyPixie - Sep 27, 2007 6:37 am (#58 of 58)
It is just so 'me' to sway the discussion in this direction. Sorry about that.
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