Harry Potter and the Philosopher's / Sorcerer's Stone Read Along

I'm with Choices on why Scabbers bit Goyle. The three older Slytherins would no doubt have treated him badly, even if he were a DE, given his Gryffindor background. (I doubt he was ever truly in the Inner Circle.) I think it more likely, however that Pettigrew/Scabbers was sleeping and Goyle simply disturbed him. Naturally, he would have been a bit jumpy in new surroundings.

I agree about Harry being left alone in London. It was dangerous and irresponsible. Even Muggles can be dangerous, as we see daily on the news. I can't imagine Harry was taken out and about in London by his aunt and uncle, either, so he would not have known his way around the city.

Verity, I've often wondered if the Dursleys took Dudley to a Wizarding healer to have that tail removed. It would have been a simple matter for Dumbledore to have arranged it and given them a false memory ... although the more logical course of action would have been to have removed it himself and then obliviated them. I wonder why that memory was not obliviated, now that I think on it. Perhaps it served as a reminder not to step over certain ... lines ... in their treatment of Harry? I wonder ...

azi wrote:Overall, I'm wondering how many of the dangerous situations that Harry gets into were orchestrated by DD, or how many DD knew about but did not intervene in, as part of Harry's preparation for facing Voldemort at the end.

Azi, I think he must have known. And it would have been important to build up Harry's courage and let him know that, by the time he met Voldemort in the final battle, he had already survived several encounters with him. If Harry had never encountered him before that time, would he have been so confident in the final battle? I don't think so. Harry needed those early encounters to know that Voldemort COULD be defeated by him. Of course, the graveyard battle was something else again. I don't really think DD could have known about that one ... could he?

I think wizards only obliviate Muggles who are not supposed to know about the wizarding world ... like Aunt Marge, for example. Petunia and Vernon, however, know that magic exists (even if they deny it) and they are bound to observe various instances of magical phenomena anyway, as long as Harry lives with them, so there is no point obliviating them simply because of Dudley's tail. I also like the idea that it could serve as a reminder for them, LOL.

We are never really told that Dumbledore might know about the pigtail, but, of course, Hagrid is a very bad secret keeper.

It is odd that Hagrid leaves Harry alone in London, but not as odd as what happens in the film, where Hagrid takes Harry to King's Cross right from Diagon Alley and leaves him alone there without bothering to make sure that Harry will find the Hogwarts Express.

As for the book, well, Harry can't even be sure that the Dursleys will be at home when he gets back to 4PD. (He last saw them on a remote island and Hagrid took their only boat.) I think we only know that Hagrid puts Harry on a train that takes him back to the Dursleys, but how can we tell whether the Dursleys are to be found at home or still on the island? Then again, it would be extremely difficult for Harry to get back to the island, so he may just go to 4PD, but how will he get in if the Durseys are still away?

Just a few comments.......I definitely see the boats as a kind of "rite of passage".  A special way to impress on the young, first time students that they are entering the world of practicing witches and wizards.  They are crossing from the Muggle world into the world of magic.

Harry left to fend for himself - I see what we often think of as "lapses" in judgement by Hagrid or Dumbledore as simply a way to teach Harry to look at things and decide how best to handle or figure out a situation.  After all, in years to come Harry is going to have to do a lot of hunting and working out how to handle various problems that he encounters in his quest to destroy Voldemort and his horcruxes.  Harry has to learn to think for himself, but just to be sure, Dumbledore gives him Hermione and Ron because he knows that he (Dumbledore) may not always be there to keep Harry safe or to help him..

Magic at the hut - Harry had not officially begun his training at Hogwarts, so I'm guessing that the "track" had not yet been placed upon him.  Hagrid, as an adult wizard, was probably not tracked, so the tail that was put on Dudley was not noted by the MOM.  Thus, no one was sent to fix it.

Scabbers biting Goyle - I suppose that Wormtail was always made to feel like an underling by the more "important" DE's (Crabbe and Goyle's fathers) and they (the boys) did not know that Scabbers was really Peter Pettigrew, so Scabbers could do Goyle a little damage/payback while incognito and no one would be the wiser.  

Wand cores - dragon heartstrings - This is a very mysterious substance, heartstrings. I am reminded of the old song that says..."Zing went the strings of my heart..", but what exactly are heartstrings? It would be lovely if JKR wrote it into her screenplay for "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them". Maybe Newt could explain when he speaks of dragons.  

I really need a re-read, so forgive me if I have said anything really off-track.  

Going back to the Dursleys with all the magical equipment he had bought would have been a test for Harry even without having to travel on the train alone and without the doubts whether the Dursleys would be at home in the first place. I don't think Hagrid meant the journey to be a test. He may not have realized that Harry needed help or protection going home; after all, he (Hagrid) had been looking after himself since his boyhood.

Dumbledore gives him Hermione and Ron because he knows that he (Dumbledore) may not always be there to keep Harry safe or to help him..

I don't know if I can agree with this. I hope Harry is able to make friends without Dumbledore's help, and not even Dumbledore could "give him" Ron and Hermione if they didn't want to stand by him. Dumbledore is only human, even if wise and powerful, and he certainly makes mistakes. There are things he can't do and things he doesn't know about. Dumbledore habitually manipulates people but it doesn't mean that everything that happens is controlled by him.

I like the idea of the boats as a "rite of passage".  

As for Scabbers: He woke up suddenly and got frightened, so he attacked instinctively. He probably didn't have time to check who he was attacking. He was probably a nervous wreck at the time, always afraid that someone might discover his secret. It's not surprising that he was irritable.

Well, we can always agree to disagree. LOL It's wonderful that we can all bring our own reality to these books.....we can justify what happens in ways that satisfy our own minds and we can put our own spin on each character's actions and motivations.  

OK, ya'll have latched onto a word (give) and given it a different meaning than I intended. I did not mean that Ron and Hermione were a gift to Harry from Dumbledore. Dumbledore didn't sit them down and say, "Here are some galleons---hang out with Harry Potter for the next seven years." I just don't think that it was a coincidence that the Weasleys met Harry and more or less adopted him into their big, loving family. They were exactly what Harry needed in his life. Nor do I think Hermione, with her love of books and knowledge, was an accidental meeting. She proved very valuable in the adventures of Harry vs Voldemort, as did Ron. From the beginning I think Dumbledore had a lot to do with the direction that Harry's life took, and even after his death, he left them things to nudge them in the right direction to find the horcruxes. Dumbledore had a goal - vanquish Voldemort - and the prophesy pointed him to Harry. I think from that moment on Dumbledore did whatever he could to make it happen. He surrounded Harry with the people who could teach him what he needed to know to defeat the powerful dark wizard that Tom Riddle became. Dumbledore loved Harry, but his was a tough love. Harry had to learn some harsh lessons along the way, he suffered, but he became "the One", and he got the job done.

Thank you for the insight into the train system, azi. Not living in England, I had no idea.

“Were the tickets checked magically without anyone realising?” That could be possible, but Harry (and everyone else) doesn’t have to purchase a ticket ever again.

I agree that the boats were probably to impress the first years (and us). But I think they were also to keep the first years separated from the rest of the students and the castle until they are sorted. So they’re taken to the cave then to the room in which they await the sorting ceremony.

“We know they study defense against magical creatures in DADA.” Of course you’re right, Verity. I don’t know what I was thinking when I said that.

I agree with Choices about the magic in the hut on the rock. As Harry was under aged he didn’t yet have the trace on him. And Hagrid didn’t have a trace as he’s an adult. Without a trace, I doubt the ministry even knew magic was done.

Now more questions:

On top of the stool she put a pointed wizard’s hat. This hat was patched and frayed and extremely dirty.

With repairing and cleaning spells, why is the hat in this condition?
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It happened very suddenly. The hook-nosed teacher looked past Quirrell’s turban straight into Harry’s eyes – and a sharp, hot pain shot across the scar on Harry’s forehead.
‘Ouch!’ Harry clapped a hand to his head.
‘What is it?’ asked Percy.
‘N-nothing.’
The pain had gone as quickly as it had come.

We know that LV was on the back of Quirrell's head, and that Harry's scar holds a bit of LV's soul. And JKR has explained that when Harry's scar hurts it's because the soul bit is trying to get out and return to it's owner. But why does it only hurt for a second? Shouldn't it hurt constantly whenever Harry is near Quirrell? Why only for the second when Snape looks at Harry?
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Regarding Quidditch: ‘I shall speak to Professor Dumbledore and see if we can’t bend the first-year rule. Heaven knows, we need a better team than last year.’

‘Seeker?’ (Ron) said. ‘but first-years never – you must be the youngest house player in about—‘

Why did they break the ‘first-years rule’ for Harry?
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Sleek and shiny, with a mahogany handle, it had a long tail of neat, straight twigs and Nimbus Two Thousand written in gold near the top.

Shouldn’t brooms be made with straws, not twigs?
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On Halloween: The feast appeared suddenly on the golden plates, as it had at the start-of-term banquet.

Doesn’t this happen at every meal, every day?
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Why was there no investigation into how a troll got into the castle?
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‘Remember, Firenze, we are sworn not to set ourselves against the heavens.’

What does this mean—‘sworn’? Who are they sworn to? Did they take an oath or something?
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Why is Peeves afraid of the Bloody Baron? Yes, we know he killed Helena Ravenclaw as well as himself, but what can he do to Peeves? You can’t kill a poltergeist.

Question _ "Why was there no investigation into how a troll got into the castle?"

We know that Quirrell let the troll into the castle to cause a diversion so he could steal the Socerer's Stone. I fall back on my belief that Dumbledore knew a lot more than he let on and he didn't need an investigation to know who probably let the troll into the castle. (No, I don't believe he is "all-knowing", but he does know a lot.)  

Train tickets are valid for all necessary round trips for seven years?

With repairing and cleaning spells, why is the hat in this condition?

Nobody knows exactly what the four founders did to make this hat sentient. So nobody dares to cast a spell on it, because it might be damaged?

And JKR has explained that when Harry's scar hurts it's because the soul bit is trying to get out and return to it's owner. But why does it only hurt for a second? Shouldn't it hurt constantly whenever Harry is near Quirrell? Why only for the second when Snape looks at Harry?

The soul bit tried to get out, failed and gave in, understanding that its owner was unreachable? Of course this was caused by Harry looking at Snape and Quirrel, not by Snape looking at Harry.

Why did they break the 'first-years rule' for Harry?

Regarding McGonagall this should be obvious: She wanted to win, and she knew that nobody in years two through seven was nearly as good a seeker as Harry would be. As for Dumbledore, she may have convinced him to bent (not break) the rule by saying that is wasn’t exactly a rule, it was just a custom to protect unskilled flyers from harming themselves, but Harry obviously didn’t need this kind of protection.

Shouldn’t brooms be made with straws, not twigs?

This may exceed my foreign language skills, but I think if the broom is a besom then it is made with brushwood twigs and if it isn’t a besom then I don’t know what it is. I wouldn’t try to make a broom with straws.

On Halloween: The feast appeared suddenly on the golden plates, as it had at the start-of-term banquet.

Doesn’t this happen at every meal, every day?

Yes, but every day it isn’t a feast and of the top of my head I’m not sure whether there are golden plates every day.

Why was there no investigation into how a troll got into the castle?

How do you know that there was no investigation? Would Dumbledore tell the students that there had been an investigation, but no result?

What does this mean—'sworn'?

No idea, we don’t know enough about the centaurs’ culture or religion.

Why is Peeves afraid of the Bloody Baron?

Everybody is afraid of the Bloody Baron. Just look at him and you should know why .

More seriously, I need to look up the exact quote. Are we sure that Peeves is afraid of the Bloody Baron, or may this just be assumed by somebody who is afraid of the Bloody Baron?

Question - "Why did they break the 'first-years rule' for Harry?

I think this is JKR's way of establishing that Harry is a "seeker' from the git-go. Not only in Quidditch, but in his life as well. He seeks the answers to where he comes from, who he is, who his parents were, how he got to be a wizard, why Snape hates him, how to find the horcruxes, etc. He is a seeker almost from the moment he finds out he is a wizard.

With repairing and cleaning spells, why is the hat in this condition?

Why does Lupin wear shabby clothes? We know he is poor, but he can certainly do magic!

Why does nine-year-old Severus wear those horrible clothes when his mother is a witch?

Why must Ron wear dress robes that he doesn't like? Mrs Weasley is good at household chores (she can even knit), yet she apparently can't do much about her son's clothes.

Is it possible that witches and wizards whose job is to make clothes put a spell on the clothes to make it impossible to change them with magic? It could be a way of ensuring that the original design and quality won't be altered, but the clothes can still get worn out in the natural way.

However, that doesn't explain why Severus's Muggle clothes could not be fitted, but perhaps Eileen Prince wasn't good at these things - or she didn't care.

Why was there no investigation into how a troll got into the castle?

I suspect there was an investigation into the troll-case, but either they weren't able to prove anything or Dumbledore wanted to observe Quirrell a little longer to obtain more information. The students weren't told, that's for sure.

Why did they break the 'first-years rule' for Harry?

"Harry Potter, you know ... we've all got a bit of a blind spot where he is concerned."  

JKR may have wanted to establish Harry as a seeker from the beginning, but it is still a question why Dumbledore and Minerva did so. I agree that Minerva simply wanted a good seeker for the Gryffindor team, but I wonder if the rules would have been so easily bent if the student in question had been someone else. Then again, even in the Muggle world, a student with extraordinary talent may be allowed to "jump ahead" in a way that's impossible for others.

Why is Peeves afraid of the Bloody Baron?

Is it something to do with the chains?  LOL, I have no idea.

Train tickets are valid for all necessary round trips for seven years?

Good idea. In that case they're like student ID cards - you purchase one when you become a Hogwarts student and it is valid for seven years. There may be some magic on the train that prevents everyone from travelling who doesn't have a "ticket". Of course, that doesn't mean that only students could travel on the Hogwarts Express, but others (e.g. teachers,  like Lupin) probably have a different sort of "ticket".

But why does it only hurt for a second? Shouldn't it hurt constantly whenever Harry is near Quirrell?

That's a good question... I don't know, but I seem to remember the pain having something to do with Voldemort's feelings. Doesn't the scar hurt more when Voldemort feels especially angry or hostile towards Harry? Though Voldie is permanently present at Hogwarts in the PS year, he may be so concerned about the Philosopher's Stone that he doesn't have time to intensively think of Harry too often. He may also be angry with inefficient Quirrell, disloyal Snape and powerful, Muggle-loving Dumbledore, so that his feelings about Harry aren't always on the surface.

Why only for the second when Snape looks at Harry?

Er... shall we suppose that Snape's feelings about Harry were kind of added to Voldemort's feelings about Harry, producing, for a second, such intense hostility that Harry was bound to feel it? Then, of course, Snape reminded himself to stay calm (or something similar) and the pain ceased.  

Or was it pure coincidence?

Oh, yes, that's how I see Snape's mother, too. We don't exactly know, but my favourite interpretation of her is that she was in a position very similar to Merope Gaunt's. We know from Dumbledore's memory that Merope had problems with simple magic while she lived with her violent and abusive father. In Eileen's case it was her husband, not her father, and it may seem a bit odd that she couldn't stand up to a Muggle, but if he made her feel worthless and depressed, her magical abilities may have suffered. Psychologically, it is possible. It is indicated that Snape's father didn't like magic, which could further block her from using her magic to improve their lives.

I can also imagine that while her magical power was descreasing over the years, their son's magical power was increasing, and Tobias wasn't able to intimidate him in the same way, as Severus knew he would go away from home eventually, so it made Tobias Snape reject his son even more.

So you get one Hogwarts Express train ticket, take it with you once, it’s somehow magically read or collected, it’s good for all the years you go to Hogwarts (or for life?), and you never have to have it with you again?
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Hieronymus, I like your comment about the sorting hat being sentient; I hadn’t thought about that. Still I would think that even a sentient object could be washed—gently, by hand, the non-magical way?
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I agree that the scar hurting had nothing to do with Snape, although that was incredible timing. I guess the question is: how exactly does the soul bit know when LV is nearby? It can’t be because Harry sees LV for various reasons, one being that Harry only sees Quirrell with a turban on his head—but he didn’t see LV or know he was there.
If it’s because LV feels a strong emotion, what was he feeling in that second, when Quirrell was talking to Snape and LV didn’t know Harry was there? Or did he?
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I can see Dumbledore breaking the first year rule just because he does things the way he wants. And we may have an actual example of DD letting Harry gain experience that might help him later.
I understand that McGonagall wants to win. But this is breaking a rule, and it’s McGonagall doing it! I could imagine a struggle going on inside her between her competitive nature and her strict adherence to rules. But this decision was made so fast that there couldn’t have been much of a struggle.
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There are several instances in the books when it's evident that Peeves is afraid of the Bloody Baron. One time Percy threatens to get the BB if Peeves doesn't get out of the way. Just before HRH go through the trap door that Fluffy sits on, Harry (under the invisibility cloak) pretends to be the BB to make Peeves go away. Can't think of others right off hand.

But the point is, Peeves isn't a living being, so what can the BB do to him that would frighten Peeves? He can't kill him or hurt him. So why the fear?
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Neville is another example of low magical performance due to bullying. First his family put pressure on him, and had no problem expressing their disappointment and lack of confidence in him, which had to have damaged his self-esteem. Then at Hogwarts, his worst class is Potions in which Snape bullies him. He excels in Herbology with nice Professor Sprout. I can’t help but wonder how he would have done in Potions had it been taught by Sprout.

The difference is that Neville figured out he could do well and Harry added to his self-confidence (telling him he’s worth twelve of Malfoy, encouraging him in the DA practices). And once he found his confidence, his family and friends were positive and supportive. He wasn’t oppressed his whole life.

More questions:

Harry seems to have a habit of leaving his invisibility cloak in odd places—and needing it immediately afterwards. He left it on the astronomy tower while delivering Norbert(a) to Charlie’s friends, and it showed up in his bed with a note that said ‘just in case’. Then he, Ron and Hermione leave it in the room with Fluffy. Mightn’t that have been helpful in the room with the mirror, Quirrell and LV? How/ when did he get it back?
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When were all the protections for the Philosophers Stone put in place? We know it was before Halloween. Does this mean the troll in the dungeon was in that room all year?
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The harp shows how Quirrell got past Fluffy. The Devil’s Snare probably wouldn’t show if someone had fallen into it before, and if it did they wouldn’t be able to tell after three more people fell on it. The crumpled wings on the key are evidence that someone’s been through there. The chess game showed no signs of having been played before; maybe after each game it resets with pieces intact? The knocked out troll is a given. And of course, the room with the mirror had Quirrell in it.

But what about Snape’s potion puzzle? If it had been tampered with, Hermione wouldn’t have been able to solve it, and there wouldn’t have been any potion for Harry to drink to move forward. And if Hermione chose wrong, she might have poisoned one or both of them. But if it wasn’t solved before they got there, then how did Quirrell get to the next room?

How did Harry get the cloak back? Since Dumbledore would have recognized the cloak immediately, he probably saw it and picked it up when he went into the corridor where Fluffy was. Perhaps he was even wearing it, since we know he was actually in the dungeon with Quirrell and Harry there at the end. (As to Harry's leaving it lying around ... he also left the cloak in Hagrid's hut (Book 2) when he, Ron, and Fang decided to "follow the spiders" into the Forbidden Forest.)

I'm guessing the protections were put into place before the Philosopher's Stone was brought to Hogwarts. About the Troll ... surely there was more than one troll around. Maybe there was a Troll colony out in the Forbidden Forest.

It was so dark in the area with the Devil's Snare that they wouldn't have been able to tell if it had been disturbed or not. Quirrell was pretty deep into Dark Magic, not to mention he had Voldy residing in the back of his head. Perhaps he was able to conjure a ladder or something instead of having to jump into it. Maybe he was able to fly over the chess set, although I'm assuming it would reset itself after each game. Probably all he needed was a sip of the potion rather than the entire bottle to get past Snape's riddle; there was still a swallow left in the bottle, after all. Snape probably charmed the whole business, too, so that the vials could not be put out of order--just in case he or one of the teachers needed to go after Quirrell. (I suppose it's possible Quirrell counted on a poison enchantment from Snape and took a bezoar along in his pocket, just to be on the safe side ... in case he couldn't figure out the riddle.)

McGonagall breaking a rule... There must be a rule somewhere that says there can be exceptions at the discretion of the Headmaster. If Dumbledore gave his permission, the rule may not have been broken. That's how real-life schools operate, I think. When you deal with children, you can always expect to face a special situation, where rigidly following a rule could do more harm than good, but it's important that someone be responsible for changes and exceptions. McGonagall could have been worried if she had tried to get Harry into the Quidditch team behind Dumbledore's back, but not when Dumbledore had agreed to it.

Good observation about the Potions puzzle. It would have been incredibly nice of Quirrell to leave a drop of potion in the bottle for future use and to keep the original order of the bottles. It is more probable that Snape had put some sort of magic on the bottles - they probably weren't empty for a long time, and their order always remained the same.

Come to think of it, Harry and Hermione were very trusting, considering that they suspected Snape of foul play, of actually having been there just before them, yet it never occurred to them that Snape could have changed the order of the bottles. It was his magic, after all.