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Predictions for Harry’s OWLs grades
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 2:24 am
Predictions for Harry’s OWLs grades
Luanee - Feb 4, 2004 5:00 pm
Edited by Kip Carter Aug 30, 2007 5:13 am
Hmm, I tried searching for a thread on this, but couldnt find... but guess Harry's OWLS grades are one of the most look forward stuff in book 6? OK lets get the OWLS grades sorted out:
O - Outstanding E - Exceeds expectations A - Acceptable P - Poor D - Dreadful T - Troll (??)
And for the subjects Harry took: Astronomy - I predict maybe an A ? Charms - Should manage an E. DADA - O of course ! Herbology - E ? History of Magic - I predict an A ? Potions - Without Snape around he should manage an A at least. Transfiguration - I am betting on an O. Care of Magical creatures - Another O I hope ? Divination - this is tough, an A maybe.
As you saw, I predicted all pass grades for Harry, haha... as for Ron, I guess his grades will be slightly worse than Harry's, especially in DADA, but he should be able to pass most of the subjects. And for Hermione, she has 2 additional subjects of Arithmancy and Ancient Runes well - as for her grades, need we guess?
Predictions for Harry’s OWLs grades thread index
This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. Elanor
Luanee - Feb 4, 2004 5:00 pm
Edited by Kip Carter Aug 30, 2007 5:13 am
Hmm, I tried searching for a thread on this, but couldnt find... but guess Harry's OWLS grades are one of the most look forward stuff in book 6? OK lets get the OWLS grades sorted out:
O - Outstanding E - Exceeds expectations A - Acceptable P - Poor D - Dreadful T - Troll (??)
And for the subjects Harry took: Astronomy - I predict maybe an A ? Charms - Should manage an E. DADA - O of course ! Herbology - E ? History of Magic - I predict an A ? Potions - Without Snape around he should manage an A at least. Transfiguration - I am betting on an O. Care of Magical creatures - Another O I hope ? Divination - this is tough, an A maybe.
As you saw, I predicted all pass grades for Harry, haha... as for Ron, I guess his grades will be slightly worse than Harry's, especially in DADA, but he should be able to pass most of the subjects. And for Hermione, she has 2 additional subjects of Arithmancy and Ancient Runes well - as for her grades, need we guess?
Predictions for Harry’s OWLs grades thread index
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Last edited by Elanor on Sat May 21, 2011 2:35 am; edited 1 time in total
Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
Age : 52
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Predictions for Harry’s OWLs grades (Post 1 to 50)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 2:28 am
virgoddess1313 - Feb 4, 2004 7:04 pm (#1 of 298)
Well, we know that History of Magic won't be so good, I'd guess a P... he might have scraped an A, but I'm not betting on it.
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Czarina - Feb 4, 2004 7:04 pm (#2 of 298)
My predictions for OWL grades:
Hermione: all O's (and she doesn't take Divination) Maybe one E just to offset the perfect score and make her upset!
Ron: mostly A's with a couple E's and maybe one or two P's
Harry: I agree with the above post, except that I don't think he'll pass Divination and maybe not History either (but he HAS to pass Potions and get into Snape's class, or else we'll all miss Snape's torture sessions)
Neville: he'll surprise everybody and get really good grades, except maybe in Potions (though Snape wasn't around)
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popkin - Feb 4, 2004 7:30 pm (#3 of 298)
mother
Edited by Feb 4, 2004 6:31 pm
This would be fun on the vote thread. I'd like to know what the consensus is when everyone's posted.
Outstanding; Exceeds expectations; Acceptable; Poor; Dreadful; Troll
For Harry:
Astronomy - P (he missed too much of the test - maybe A if the grade is curved. Maybe he'll take remedial Astronomy with Firenze.)
Charms - E
Herbology - E
History of Magic - P (He was much too distracted.)
Potions - E
Transfiguration - A
Care of Magical Creatures - O (he pays good attention in Class)
DADA - O
Divination - P (his teacher was poor, and he was a poor student. How could he achieve any better than a P?)
McGonnagal will have her work cut out for her getting Harry ready for Auror training.
Hermione will receive all O's. Has she taken more than 12 subjects? Maybe she'll be honored to receive more O's than any other student in the history of Hogwarts, and her name will be entered into the new edition of Hogwarts, A History.
Ron's grades will be very like Harry's, but he'll pass Astronomy.
Neville will receive excellent grades (better than Harry or Ron), including an O in Herbology, and in several other classes as well. I think he'll get an E in Potions.
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Gina R Snape - Feb 4, 2004 8:10 pm (#4 of 298)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I bet Neville will do Outstanding in Potions without Snape around to make him nervous.
I really hope everyone gets graded on a curve for Astronomy. The whole class and even the tester were distracted by the commotion eventually.
I fully expect Harry to get an E in Potions, and that Dumbledore will order Snape to accept Harry into his class anyway, which will increase his resentment for the boy.
Didn't Malfoy mess up part of his DADA exam? I expect he'll get an E and I wonder if him "messing up" specifically in DADA because he was distracted by Harry's patronus is a metaphor.
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Luanee - Feb 4, 2004 10:30 pm (#5 of 298)
Oh I forgot that Herminone doesn't take Divination. I was too eager to start the thread... no wonder I was thinking how Hermione manged to take 2 extra subjects without the time turner? Sorry!
Did anyone remember someone mentioning Percy scoring 12 OWLs? How did he manage to do that without the time-turner? Please correct me if I am wrong, thanks!
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Devika - Feb 5, 2004 2:59 am (#6 of 298)
I like this thread a lot.... This is my guess: Outstanding, Exceeds Expectations, Acceptable, Poor, Dreadful, and troll (?)
Charms - E
Tranfiguration - I wish for an O especially since McG has promised to help him with aurorship and I want to see more scenes with her. I see Tranfiguration becoming Harry's next best subject after DADA
DADA - O... no doubt.. I would be shocked if he didn't
Herbology - I see E
Potions - Could be E or if it wasn't too good then A, but O unlikely
COMC - O
Divination - Anything is possible... from O to T!
Astronomy and History of Magic - By normal muggle estimates he should get a P in these since he couldn't do them properly. But I was thinking... maybe in the wizard education system there is provision for the kind of distractions that happened. Maybe he'll be given an A because his paper went off better than expected from someone who had such distractions..."Exceeded Expectations". What do all of you think?
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popkin - Feb 5, 2004 8:33 am (#7 of 298)
mother
I wish I'd noted that for Harry and Ron Potions, Charms or Transfiguration could go as high as an O, but not all of them. It's apparently quite a feat just to pass all of your OWLs, as Mrs. Weasly is very proud of that achievement in all her sons so far (Fred and George being next-door neighbors).
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FCBarca - Feb 5, 2004 9:04 am (#8 of 298)
Harry's OWLs:
Astronomy: A
Charms: E
Herbology: A
History of Magic: P
Potions: A
Transfiguration: E
Care of Magical Creatures: O
Divination: P
DADA: O
By the way, McGonagall said that Aurors need 5 NEWTs (ANY 5 NEWTs), not 5 OWLs. So Harry doesn't necessarily need Potions. He also doesn't need at least 5 Exceeds Expectaions to take the NEWTs for a particualar subject. McGonagall said she doesn't accept people to take NEWT in Transfiguration under Exceeds Expectations, and Snape doesn't take anyone under Outstanding. You can see from that, that what qualification you need to take NEWT for a certain subject varies with the teacher; so Flitwick may accept people for NEWT with an Acceptable. So Harry doesn't necessasarily need 5 Exceeds Expectaions to become an Auror (remember, he needs at leat 5 Exceeds Expectaions in his NEWT's, not OWLs.)
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loony - Feb 5, 2004 10:17 am (#9 of 298)
I think that Harry's OWL in potions certainly will be under O, so I wonder if DD will intervene to make Snape accept him in his class. Because he has to have a NEWT in potions for becoming an Auror.
Hermione will probably get O in all subjects.
For Ron I think he'll get better notes than Harry. I'm not sure but when Ron got his Perfect badge, Harry was thinking something like "no wonder, I'm only better in DADA and qudditch than Ron". So I guess his OWLs will be quite good.
I expect Neville to be "a big surprise" getting very good notes, maybe even in Potions.
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Tomoé - Feb 5, 2004 5:17 pm (#10 of 298)
Back in business
Charms - E
Tranfiguration - E
Herbology - A/E/O
DADA - O
Potion - A/E
CoMC - E/O
Astronomy - A
Divination - D/P
History of Magic - T/D
Charms, Harry had A and E for the last two year, and since he know he need an OWL in Charms, he would had work on that subject and "[o]n the whole, Harry thought it went rather well." And Draco will have A.
Tranfiguration, Harry was averaging A in his career advice and MacGonagall as him to work harder. Since he need that subject he would have achieve to get a E. Hannah Abbott won't be in the Transfiguration class next year.
Herbology, "other from a small bite from a Fanged Geranium, Harry felt he had done resonably well".
DADA, Harry generally score high with competent teachers and he got better marks that Hermione in their 3rd years. He felt he achieve an O. So I think he will have a O or maybe an M for "Master perfectly the subject".
Potion, "[s]ure enough, he found the written paper difficult" and as he ended the practical test, he was "feeling that he might not have achieve a good grade but he had at least avoided a fail.".
CoMC, "Harry was determined to perform well", so he could had reach an E or even an O.
Astronomy, "[t]he Astronomy paper theory paper [...] went well enough" but he leaved the third of his chart unfilled. The overall should be acceptable.
Divination, "[e]ven by Harry's low standars in Divination, the exam went very badly". He will fail this one and Ron too.
History of Magic, Harry answer the question 1 to 3, skip #4, answer #5, then scan the paper for an easier question, found #10 easy enough, anwser it and fall asleep. Even if he got full mark for those questions, that would give 50%, likely a D or an P. But Harry was not sure to have tell everything he should, in fact "[h]e was finding it very difficult to remember names and kept confusing date". As a muggle, I never answer a ministery test with only 10 questions, 50 is more likely and 5/50 give 10%, dreadful. Adding that he had problems with named and dates, that give lest that 10%, Dreadful or Troll if that mark does exist.
Edit : I just corrected some mistake.
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VeronikaG - Feb 6, 2004 2:23 pm (#11 of 298)
Maybe Goyle, and possibly Crabbe does so badly they won't be allowed to take NEWTS?"
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Czarina - Feb 6, 2004 2:58 pm (#12 of 298)
"Maybe Goyle, and possibly Crabbe does so badly they won't be allowed to take NEWTs?"
I was thinking that Malfoy would probably do about as well as Harry on his OWLs. He might do better than Harry in Potions, but he did worse than him in Charms. I wouldn't be surprised if Malfoy didn't fall asleep in History of Magic too -- though probably not during the exam -- and have absolutely no clue as to how to answer most of the questions. He didn't seem to study much, either. He was too busy being an arrogant braggart about his family connections.
That said, Draco will definitely do better than Crabbe and Goyle (if he didn't, that would be funny!) and end up in NEWT classes without them. Now THAT would bring him down a peg or two -- Daddy's a DE in Azkaban and now his bodyguards can't be in class with him! Poor git.
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Bash - Feb 6, 2004 4:54 pm (#13 of 298)
OK, my predictions: DADA - at the very least O. Like James predicted for himself!
Potions - possibly E to get into the Potion NEWT set.
Charms - E
Herbology - probably E.
CoMC - possibly E, he did it well, but nothing spectacular.
Transfiguration - E, to get into Minerva's set.
Astronomy - A maybe. They have to take distractions into account!
Harry will fail History of Magic and Divination.
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Czarina - Feb 6, 2004 5:13 pm (#14 of 298)
"Harry will fail History of Magic and Divination."
Yeah! No more complaining about Binns or Trelawney. Really, we can get that stuff over with now! (Just like I felt when I finished Phys. Ed. in grade 10.)
It would be great if Harry got an O in Potions just to spite a Certain Professor Who Will Not Be Named. Then we would know that he got into the NEWT-level class on his own merit and not on McGonagall's or Dumbledore's haggling.
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Tomoé - Feb 6, 2004 7:17 pm (#15 of 298)
Back in business
I hope Harry will surprise everyone with a O in Potion. And for Crabbe and Goyle, we don't know, they are Slytherins after all. They will take any means to achieve their goal and if their goal is to get all their OWL, and if the only mean is to work as hard as Ernie Macmillan, so be it, they will study 8 hours a day.
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popkin - Feb 6, 2004 8:48 pm (#16 of 298)
mother
If Crabbe and Goyle get any good grades on their OWLs, I think they will have achieved their means by cheating.
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scully jones - Feb 6, 2004 8:55 pm (#17 of 298)
yeah right
Most definitely, and connections within the school board.
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Bash - Feb 6, 2004 9:37 pm (#18 of 298)
Well Malfoy no longer has the connections he did. Lucius is in Azkaban. I know that he will quickly be out, but this has begun the fall in his fortunes!
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Skippy - Feb 8, 2004 12:39 pm (#19 of 298)
I think Crabbe and Goyle will probably stay on for NEWTS, as Fred and George did and they only got three OWLS didn't they?
As for Harry, I think he might get the following: Potions: A-E (probably A) Transfiguration: E Herbology: E Astronomy: A-E Divination: P-A History of Magic: P Defence against the dark arts: O Care of Magical Creatures: E-O Charms: E
Does anyone think it is possible that Harry's grades will be 'bumped up' by the Ministry of Magic? I thought maybe they would feel guilty for what they did to him in OOTP so give him better grades or something. Maybe not though, just a thought. If that did happen, that would be really unfair, probably Ron might have a jealousy thing and Hermione might go all judgemental.
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MTW - Feb 8, 2004 4:00 pm (#20 of 298)
Harry
Potions- E ( wouldn't surprise me if he did get an O without Snape breathing down his neck and without the distractions of trying easedrop what Snape is saying to others)
Charms- E
Transfiguration- E
DaDa- O
Astronomy- P (Harry filled in a third of the chart, but that doesn't mean all of them were correct)
History- D
Divinations-D
CoMC- E (another possible O for Harry)
Herbology-A
Hermione will get all O's with one E just so she can obess about it.
Ron will get mostly A's ( wasn't distract as long in Astrology as Harry and didn't fall asleep in History) Possible higher marks in DADA at least an E, CoMC - E, maybe an E in Herbology
Neville will surprise everyone with an E in Potions ( same reason a Harry) and will be in Potions Newt classes because no one but Hermione will get an O in Potions. Snape wouldn't be able to stand two years of being in the same class alone with the insufferable know-it-all. 8Þ
Draco E in Potions and in Dada
Crabbe and Goyle Wouldn't be surpised if one of the two will get and E or two in their owls for Dada , CoMC or even Potions. It would be funny that Goyle would get an O in Dada with Draco getting an E
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Luanee - Feb 8, 2004 7:03 pm (#21 of 298)
OK, I know not anyone has voted yet, but I find all the postings to be kind of messy, so I decided to summarise a bit here:
Based on our predictions, Harry's best subjects (in order of merit) would be:
1. DADA (everyone gave him an O - what else can you ask for?)
2. CoMC (62% of voters gave him an O, the rest gave an E)
3. Transfiguration (25% of us gave him an O, 62% gave him an E, the rest an A)
4. Charms (all of us gave him an E in fact)
5. Herbology (62% gave him an E, the rest A)
6. Potion (55% gave him an E, the rest A)
7. Astronomy (75% gave him an A, the rest a P)
8. History of Magic (only 14% gave him a pass grade A, the rest mainly predicted a P)
9. Divination ( most of us predicted he will fail, sob sob)
OK, for the rest who hasnt voted, please continue to send in your predictions soon and we can have an updated summary later !!
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Luanee - Feb 9, 2004 1:26 am (#22 of 298)
Just for clarification, I only counted the votes for those who said "I guess' or 'I predict' or something to that extent. I did not count those who said 'I hope' or 'I wish' as I think that was not their vote but just something they wish to see happen. Hope this is fine with all.
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popkin - Feb 9, 2004 10:35 am (#23 of 298)
mother
Thanks for the tally, luanee.
I was just reading today that Harry believes that all the kids in Dumbledore's Army will get an "O" in DADA. If there are any provisions in the WW for a grade higher than "O" for students who demonstrate a better than outstanding performance in a subject, then Harry could get better than "O" in DADA. As the teacher, he should do better in the subject than his students.
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Luanee - Feb 9, 2004 4:47 pm (#24 of 298)
Grades higher than O ? Hmm... over here in my Muggle country, we have something called the S (special) papers for students really good in certain subjects, taken in the GCE 'A' Level - which I believe to be equivalent to NEWT. They have to apply to take that paper beforehand. I am not so sure about the wizarding world...
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Dr Filibuster - Feb 9, 2004 5:01 pm (#25 of 298)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
Yes, I was suprised that Hermione's exam timetable was so detailed in OoP. I'd have thought that she would have taken a few extra exams or special papers.
There could still be a chance she did I suppose?
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Emily - Feb 16, 2004 11:13 am (#26 of 298)
Potions - O(he need it, and it will spite Snape)
DADA - O(he is the best in the class, eve Hermione admits it)
CoMC - O(he was working extra hard for Hagrid, plus I think he found it[the subject] interesting)
Transfiguration - E(just enough to get into McG's NEWT class)
Charms - E(he did pretty well)
Herbology - E(he only got one bite, thats pretty good)
Astronomy - P(he didn't even fill the chart in all the way, plus, some of it could be wrong)
HoM - D/T(if it exists)(he answered about 3 questions, and I have a feeling that not even those are completely right)
Divination - P(it sounds like he messed up big time. I wouldn't like being told that I should have died 3 years ago, and I probably wouldn't pass someone who told me it)
Side note: Do you pronounce NEWTs as N-E-W-T's, or as newts(the word)?
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Joanna S Lupin - Feb 16, 2004 11:50 am (#27 of 298)
Little Bobik
Edited by Feb 16, 2004 10:53 am
As to prenounciation I do not know for certain, but I personally prenounce newts (the word) there is prenounciation guide on: you may check there
My OWLs predictions are as fallows:
Potions: E (I predict, however, that he will be allowed to take NEWT classes, Draco will receive A in transfiguration, and because of Snape and McGonnagall's agreement both Harry and Draco will be allowed to take NEWT classes)
Defence Against the Dark Arts: O (or better, special grade if exists)
Transfiguration: E
Care of Magical Creatures: O
Charms: E
Herbology: E
History of Magic: D
Astrology: P
Divination: A (it is a very imprecise branch of magic, so who knows maybe he did quite well )
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VeronikaG - Feb 17, 2004 5:41 am (#28 of 298)
Will Harry have to take History of Magic OWL's next year again, if he fails? Or the whole subject? Then he'll be in class with Ginny. Interesting...
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Dr Filibuster - Feb 17, 2004 4:56 pm (#29 of 298)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
It's certainly a possibility Veronika. I hadn't thought of that. Nice catch.
However, no characters have ever mentioned any re-sits or extra, older pupils attending Harry's 5th year classes.
Can't quite remember what happened at my school (only relevant if JKR keeps to her own experiences of 1980's comprehensive school). I think teachers set work to be done in student's free study periods...or just expected them to revise (swot up) ready for the re-sit in November.
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Tomoé - Feb 17, 2004 7:02 pm (#30 of 298)
Back in business
I don't know, the twins never mention re-sitting the half-dozen OWL they failed. But maybe that wasn't relevant enough so JKR didn't mention it.
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Gina R Snape - Feb 17, 2004 8:07 pm (#31 of 298)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Wouldn't it be funny if Umbridge's "Inquisatorial Squad" duties prevented those participating Slytherins from studying as much as they ought to have? It would serve them right. Heh, heh.
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Choices - Feb 18, 2004 3:46 pm (#32 of 298)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Gina - Would Snape's beverage line be called "Snapel" by any chance?? LOL
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popkin - Feb 18, 2004 10:43 pm (#33 of 298)
mother
The Slytherin captain (name escapes me) from PS/SS had to repeat a year. I would guess he took a lot of classes over.
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VeronikaG - Feb 19, 2004 3:24 am (#34 of 298)
Marcus Flint, you mean?
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Loopy Lupin - Feb 19, 2004 3:22 pm (#35 of 298)
Luannee,
I have some issues with Percy's 12 OWLs as well. Is it possible that you can get an OWL for the practical and an OWL for the essay? That's the only way I could see 12 for Percy without the time turner.
Also, if Snape, McGonngal, (and others) only accept certain students into NEWT classes (i.e. students who have achieved certain grades on OWLS), then what classes do the students who did poorly take? Could there be a NEWT Transfiguration class and a "normal" transfiguration class beyond OWL years?
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VeronikaG - Feb 20, 2004 2:14 am (#36 of 298)
I think they just have fewer classes after OWLs. In my last year in high school, I could leave math because I had had so many classes the two previous years. Maybe NEWTs works something like that.
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Chemyst - Feb 20, 2004 7:31 am (#37 of 298)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I needed time to go back and reread parts of the career advice and O.W.L.S chapters. To become an auror Harry will need 5 N.E.W.T.S at 'E' or higher, so I'd guess/deduce that as a minimum for OWLs he'd need 4 E's or higher and at least one other subject where he has a realistic chance of success if he works a little harder.
DADA with the bonus-point patronus is an O. The other must-do-wells to be an auror are charms, transfiguration and potions.
McGonagall said Flitwick had always given him between an A and E in the past. Harry was relaxed and did well during the written portion of the charms exam since the question recalled his troll-clubbing experience, so that would boost him toward the higher of the two marks. During the practical he mixed up the color-changing and growth charms but was able to quickly correct it. Charms is an E.
McGonagall requires at least an E for students to be accepted into her upper level classes. Harry forgot one definition on the written but was satisfied with the practical, so I'll count this as an E.
Potions is a stickler. It is required to become an auror. Snape takes only students who have made O. Even with the advantage of Snape being out of the room during the test I don't see Harry making an O. The book says only that Harry felt he "avoided a fail." I'm going to make a prediction that for the sake of storyline, Harry's score ties with Draco's. And that without Snape there to help him, and along with Gina's good idea of Inquisitional Squad duties interfering with study time, Draco does worse than usual. They both get an A. Snape will try to bend his own rule to let Draco in his class, but McGonagall's vow to help Harry results in her forcing Snape to admit Harry if he admits Draco. (Perhaps since no one else in the class wants to work with classmates who scored so low on the OWLs, the two end up as lab partners-- and another trip to the hospital wing is involved.)
Harry had put a lot of effort into CoMC for Hagrid's sake and was able to smile and give a thumb's up when it was over. That is another E. That gives him the minimum (as was defined by me, since it is not in the book) to get accepted into pre-auror classes.
In herbology he did 'reasonably well' with a 'small bite' so I give an A.
I think he would have done OK in astronomy but one cannot leave a sixth of the test blank and get a good grade. I give him a P.
Divination and history are both D.
I agree with the consensus that Hermione will get all O's but with one E to stew over. I think she is fast enough that she completed astronomy even with the distraction and her single E is in runes.
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Jenny M. - Feb 20, 2004 4:14 pm (#38 of 298)
I like your idea of the way Harry will get into NEWT-level potions class without scoring O. I bet we do see that.
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popkin - Feb 20, 2004 5:05 pm (#39 of 298)
mother
I think Hermione is going to score better on her OWLs than any student has since MacGonnagal.
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Anna L. Black - Feb 20, 2004 5:32 pm (#40 of 298)
My thoughts:
DADA - O, obviously.
Charms - E, for the reasons Chemyst mentioned.
Transfiguration - At least an E, an O is very possible (To forget one definition is not such a big deal, I think...)
Potions - At least A - certainly. I can hardly see him getting an O, so I think that most likely he got an E. And McGonagall will reach some sort of an agreement with Snape.
CoMC - an O, it was an easy subject and an easy exam.
Herbology - sounds like an E to me.
Astronomy - A, probably. He did well enough before the incident with Hagrid, McGonagall and Umbridge, so I don't think he failed. Plus, I think they'll consider the circumstances.
Divination - P, without any doubt - no way he passed this one.
History of Magic - either a P or a D. Unless Dumbledore steps in and states that Voldemort was troubling him during the exam, but that hardly will happen. And there's not much to fuss about anyway - surely Harry doesn't want to study History of Magic for another 2 years...
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Rich - Feb 20, 2004 10:38 pm (#41 of 298)
Families are about love overcoming emotional torture. -Matt Groening
In POA I think it mentions somewhere that Fred and George got their OWL results and this was before the year was finished, (I think Percy got his NEWT results too). It's pg. 313, Owl Post Again.
Why do you think that is?
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Bash - Feb 21, 2004 9:21 pm (#42 of 298)
Maybe they changed the system of announcing the results over the two year interval.
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Madame Librarian - Feb 22, 2004 10:33 am (#43 of 298)
Here's the citation from OoP about OWL results:
Chapter 31, pg. 709 (US), McG is explaining how the OWL tests will be organized. Hermione asks--
"Please, Professor, said Hermione, her hand in the air, "when will we find out our results?"
"An owl will be sent to you some time in July," said Professor McGonagall.
"Excellent," said Dean Thomas in an audible whisper, "so we don't have to worry about it till the holidays...."
Harry imagined sitting in his bedroom in Privet Drive in six weeks' time, waiting for his O.W.L. results. Well, he thought dully, at least he would be sure of getting one bit of post next summer....
Ciao. Barb
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alexa - Feb 23, 2004 12:33 am (#44 of 298)
Harry should grab 5 OWLS. (slightly better than Fred & George - they have 3 OWLS each, right?)The 5 OWLS for Harry would be DADA, COMC, Herbology, Transfiguration and Potions.
Ron might get 1 OWL less than Harry. Maybe he would not score an OWL in Transfiguration.
Hermione should get 10 OWLS. (If Percy could achieve 12 OWLS, it shouldn't be a problem for Hermione to get straight OWLS.)
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Iverson Godfrey - Feb 23, 2004 5:24 pm (#45 of 298)
Harry Potter fan since 2002
I'm surprised that nobody thinks Harry will score an "O" in Charms.
All of the examiners were present to witness his Patronus CHARM weren't they? Didn't Lupin tell Harry that this charm was very advanced magic and that many qualified wizards were not able to do it effectively. He uses a lot of other charms for defensive purposes as well, doesn't he? It seems this would count toward a very good mark in spite of the fact that Harry has applied most of his charms energy to the ones with good DADA applications.
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Bash - Feb 23, 2004 5:32 pm (#46 of 298)
Harry only did the Patronus charm in the DADA exam Iverson Godfrey.
I expect that it counts as advanced DADA rather than Charms.
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Czarina - Feb 23, 2004 8:04 pm (#47 of 298)
But if ALL the examiners were impressed with Harry's Patronus Charm, that might have awarded him some extra points in Charms. Harry might have done an outstanding job in Charms, too -- do we know what the examiners are thinking as they take (insert length of time until Rowling is finished Book 6) to consider Harry Potter's scores? It's all speculation.
Loopy Lupin - Feb 24, 2004 7:56 am (#48 of 298)[/b]
I think that the following will be Harry's and Hermione's grades. (First, I still wonder if anyone has given any thought to my prior post: Do you get an OWL for theory and and OWL for the practical? This could explain Percy's 12. Otherwise, it will be hard for Harry or even Hermione to match that)
Harry-- DADA-- Outstanding; Charms-- E.E.; Transfiguration-- E.E.; COMC-- Outstanding; Potions-- E.E.; Divination-- Acceptable.
Astronomy is a question mark because it was interrupted by Umbridge when Harry's chart was 2/3 done I think. Either, 2/3 will be enough for a passing grade or some type of allowance will be made since such a scene happened to disrupt the exam. History of Magic will probably be just too bad for Harry, unless an allowance can be made for the fact that Voldemort was behind him, Harry, running out of the exam. (Now that everyone believes Voldemort is back). I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe these grades would allow Harry to proceed to NEWTS in the classes he needs to become an Auror. If not, then bump them up a notch because I don't think JKR will allow Harry's auror aspiration to be dashed by OWLS.
Hermione Charms--O; Arithmancy--O; DADA--O; Ancient Runes-- E.E.; Transfiguration-- O; History of Magic-- O; Astronomy-- O; COMC-- O; Potions-- O.
Ancient Runes is E.E. because I believe there will be at least one class where Hermione doesn't achieve "outstanding" and it will drive her mad.
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Luanee - Feb 24, 2004 4:38 pm (#49 of 298)
Hi Loopy, I was thinking if they award 2 separate grades for both practical and theory papers, Percy would have gotten more than 12 OWLs right? Considering if he took 10 subjects like Hermione, and there are more than 2 subjects offering practical examinations (Transfiguration, Charms, DADA...) ?
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alexa - Feb 24, 2004 9:33 pm (#50 of 298)
Sorry, I am getting confused over here. I know OWL stands for "Ordinary Wizard Level", right? Does O.W.L include passed grades- O, E, and A?
If Percy achieved 12 OWLs, that means he passed all his subjects, but that is not really an achievement, is it? It would be impressive if he achieved 12 'Outstanding' but not 12 'OWLs' Many students could pass all the subjects, at least I imagined most of the Ravenclaws could, if they have the sharpest mind.
So if Fred and George got 3 OWLs each, did they fail all their rest of the subjects? The Weasley twins can't be that bad, can they?
When I predicted Harry grabbing 5 OWLs, I was thinking about 5 Outstandings. But if OWL means passed grades, then I should be predicting 9 OWLs for Harry instead, because I don't think Harry would fail any subject, sorry, 8 OWLS, I am forgetting about Divination.
Any thoughts, anyone?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Well, we know that History of Magic won't be so good, I'd guess a P... he might have scraped an A, but I'm not betting on it.
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Czarina - Feb 4, 2004 7:04 pm (#2 of 298)
My predictions for OWL grades:
Hermione: all O's (and she doesn't take Divination) Maybe one E just to offset the perfect score and make her upset!
Ron: mostly A's with a couple E's and maybe one or two P's
Harry: I agree with the above post, except that I don't think he'll pass Divination and maybe not History either (but he HAS to pass Potions and get into Snape's class, or else we'll all miss Snape's torture sessions)
Neville: he'll surprise everybody and get really good grades, except maybe in Potions (though Snape wasn't around)
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popkin - Feb 4, 2004 7:30 pm (#3 of 298)
mother
Edited by Feb 4, 2004 6:31 pm
This would be fun on the vote thread. I'd like to know what the consensus is when everyone's posted.
Outstanding; Exceeds expectations; Acceptable; Poor; Dreadful; Troll
For Harry:
Astronomy - P (he missed too much of the test - maybe A if the grade is curved. Maybe he'll take remedial Astronomy with Firenze.)
Charms - E
Herbology - E
History of Magic - P (He was much too distracted.)
Potions - E
Transfiguration - A
Care of Magical Creatures - O (he pays good attention in Class)
DADA - O
Divination - P (his teacher was poor, and he was a poor student. How could he achieve any better than a P?)
McGonnagal will have her work cut out for her getting Harry ready for Auror training.
Hermione will receive all O's. Has she taken more than 12 subjects? Maybe she'll be honored to receive more O's than any other student in the history of Hogwarts, and her name will be entered into the new edition of Hogwarts, A History.
Ron's grades will be very like Harry's, but he'll pass Astronomy.
Neville will receive excellent grades (better than Harry or Ron), including an O in Herbology, and in several other classes as well. I think he'll get an E in Potions.
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Gina R Snape - Feb 4, 2004 8:10 pm (#4 of 298)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I bet Neville will do Outstanding in Potions without Snape around to make him nervous.
I really hope everyone gets graded on a curve for Astronomy. The whole class and even the tester were distracted by the commotion eventually.
I fully expect Harry to get an E in Potions, and that Dumbledore will order Snape to accept Harry into his class anyway, which will increase his resentment for the boy.
Didn't Malfoy mess up part of his DADA exam? I expect he'll get an E and I wonder if him "messing up" specifically in DADA because he was distracted by Harry's patronus is a metaphor.
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Luanee - Feb 4, 2004 10:30 pm (#5 of 298)
Oh I forgot that Herminone doesn't take Divination. I was too eager to start the thread... no wonder I was thinking how Hermione manged to take 2 extra subjects without the time turner? Sorry!
Did anyone remember someone mentioning Percy scoring 12 OWLs? How did he manage to do that without the time-turner? Please correct me if I am wrong, thanks!
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Devika - Feb 5, 2004 2:59 am (#6 of 298)
I like this thread a lot.... This is my guess: Outstanding, Exceeds Expectations, Acceptable, Poor, Dreadful, and troll (?)
Charms - E
Tranfiguration - I wish for an O especially since McG has promised to help him with aurorship and I want to see more scenes with her. I see Tranfiguration becoming Harry's next best subject after DADA
DADA - O... no doubt.. I would be shocked if he didn't
Herbology - I see E
Potions - Could be E or if it wasn't too good then A, but O unlikely
COMC - O
Divination - Anything is possible... from O to T!
Astronomy and History of Magic - By normal muggle estimates he should get a P in these since he couldn't do them properly. But I was thinking... maybe in the wizard education system there is provision for the kind of distractions that happened. Maybe he'll be given an A because his paper went off better than expected from someone who had such distractions..."Exceeded Expectations". What do all of you think?
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popkin - Feb 5, 2004 8:33 am (#7 of 298)
mother
I wish I'd noted that for Harry and Ron Potions, Charms or Transfiguration could go as high as an O, but not all of them. It's apparently quite a feat just to pass all of your OWLs, as Mrs. Weasly is very proud of that achievement in all her sons so far (Fred and George being next-door neighbors).
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FCBarca - Feb 5, 2004 9:04 am (#8 of 298)
Harry's OWLs:
Astronomy: A
Charms: E
Herbology: A
History of Magic: P
Potions: A
Transfiguration: E
Care of Magical Creatures: O
Divination: P
DADA: O
By the way, McGonagall said that Aurors need 5 NEWTs (ANY 5 NEWTs), not 5 OWLs. So Harry doesn't necessarily need Potions. He also doesn't need at least 5 Exceeds Expectaions to take the NEWTs for a particualar subject. McGonagall said she doesn't accept people to take NEWT in Transfiguration under Exceeds Expectations, and Snape doesn't take anyone under Outstanding. You can see from that, that what qualification you need to take NEWT for a certain subject varies with the teacher; so Flitwick may accept people for NEWT with an Acceptable. So Harry doesn't necessasarily need 5 Exceeds Expectaions to become an Auror (remember, he needs at leat 5 Exceeds Expectaions in his NEWT's, not OWLs.)
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loony - Feb 5, 2004 10:17 am (#9 of 298)
I think that Harry's OWL in potions certainly will be under O, so I wonder if DD will intervene to make Snape accept him in his class. Because he has to have a NEWT in potions for becoming an Auror.
Hermione will probably get O in all subjects.
For Ron I think he'll get better notes than Harry. I'm not sure but when Ron got his Perfect badge, Harry was thinking something like "no wonder, I'm only better in DADA and qudditch than Ron". So I guess his OWLs will be quite good.
I expect Neville to be "a big surprise" getting very good notes, maybe even in Potions.
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Tomoé - Feb 5, 2004 5:17 pm (#10 of 298)
Back in business
Charms - E
Tranfiguration - E
Herbology - A/E/O
DADA - O
Potion - A/E
CoMC - E/O
Astronomy - A
Divination - D/P
History of Magic - T/D
Charms, Harry had A and E for the last two year, and since he know he need an OWL in Charms, he would had work on that subject and "[o]n the whole, Harry thought it went rather well." And Draco will have A.
Tranfiguration, Harry was averaging A in his career advice and MacGonagall as him to work harder. Since he need that subject he would have achieve to get a E. Hannah Abbott won't be in the Transfiguration class next year.
Herbology, "other from a small bite from a Fanged Geranium, Harry felt he had done resonably well".
DADA, Harry generally score high with competent teachers and he got better marks that Hermione in their 3rd years. He felt he achieve an O. So I think he will have a O or maybe an M for "Master perfectly the subject".
Potion, "[s]ure enough, he found the written paper difficult" and as he ended the practical test, he was "feeling that he might not have achieve a good grade but he had at least avoided a fail.".
CoMC, "Harry was determined to perform well", so he could had reach an E or even an O.
Astronomy, "[t]he Astronomy paper theory paper [...] went well enough" but he leaved the third of his chart unfilled. The overall should be acceptable.
Divination, "[e]ven by Harry's low standars in Divination, the exam went very badly". He will fail this one and Ron too.
History of Magic, Harry answer the question 1 to 3, skip #4, answer #5, then scan the paper for an easier question, found #10 easy enough, anwser it and fall asleep. Even if he got full mark for those questions, that would give 50%, likely a D or an P. But Harry was not sure to have tell everything he should, in fact "[h]e was finding it very difficult to remember names and kept confusing date". As a muggle, I never answer a ministery test with only 10 questions, 50 is more likely and 5/50 give 10%, dreadful. Adding that he had problems with named and dates, that give lest that 10%, Dreadful or Troll if that mark does exist.
Edit : I just corrected some mistake.
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VeronikaG - Feb 6, 2004 2:23 pm (#11 of 298)
Maybe Goyle, and possibly Crabbe does so badly they won't be allowed to take NEWTS?"
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Czarina - Feb 6, 2004 2:58 pm (#12 of 298)
"Maybe Goyle, and possibly Crabbe does so badly they won't be allowed to take NEWTs?"
I was thinking that Malfoy would probably do about as well as Harry on his OWLs. He might do better than Harry in Potions, but he did worse than him in Charms. I wouldn't be surprised if Malfoy didn't fall asleep in History of Magic too -- though probably not during the exam -- and have absolutely no clue as to how to answer most of the questions. He didn't seem to study much, either. He was too busy being an arrogant braggart about his family connections.
That said, Draco will definitely do better than Crabbe and Goyle (if he didn't, that would be funny!) and end up in NEWT classes without them. Now THAT would bring him down a peg or two -- Daddy's a DE in Azkaban and now his bodyguards can't be in class with him! Poor git.
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Bash - Feb 6, 2004 4:54 pm (#13 of 298)
OK, my predictions: DADA - at the very least O. Like James predicted for himself!
Potions - possibly E to get into the Potion NEWT set.
Charms - E
Herbology - probably E.
CoMC - possibly E, he did it well, but nothing spectacular.
Transfiguration - E, to get into Minerva's set.
Astronomy - A maybe. They have to take distractions into account!
Harry will fail History of Magic and Divination.
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Czarina - Feb 6, 2004 5:13 pm (#14 of 298)
"Harry will fail History of Magic and Divination."
Yeah! No more complaining about Binns or Trelawney. Really, we can get that stuff over with now! (Just like I felt when I finished Phys. Ed. in grade 10.)
It would be great if Harry got an O in Potions just to spite a Certain Professor Who Will Not Be Named. Then we would know that he got into the NEWT-level class on his own merit and not on McGonagall's or Dumbledore's haggling.
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Tomoé - Feb 6, 2004 7:17 pm (#15 of 298)
Back in business
I hope Harry will surprise everyone with a O in Potion. And for Crabbe and Goyle, we don't know, they are Slytherins after all. They will take any means to achieve their goal and if their goal is to get all their OWL, and if the only mean is to work as hard as Ernie Macmillan, so be it, they will study 8 hours a day.
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popkin - Feb 6, 2004 8:48 pm (#16 of 298)
mother
If Crabbe and Goyle get any good grades on their OWLs, I think they will have achieved their means by cheating.
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scully jones - Feb 6, 2004 8:55 pm (#17 of 298)
yeah right
Most definitely, and connections within the school board.
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Bash - Feb 6, 2004 9:37 pm (#18 of 298)
Well Malfoy no longer has the connections he did. Lucius is in Azkaban. I know that he will quickly be out, but this has begun the fall in his fortunes!
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Skippy - Feb 8, 2004 12:39 pm (#19 of 298)
I think Crabbe and Goyle will probably stay on for NEWTS, as Fred and George did and they only got three OWLS didn't they?
As for Harry, I think he might get the following: Potions: A-E (probably A) Transfiguration: E Herbology: E Astronomy: A-E Divination: P-A History of Magic: P Defence against the dark arts: O Care of Magical Creatures: E-O Charms: E
Does anyone think it is possible that Harry's grades will be 'bumped up' by the Ministry of Magic? I thought maybe they would feel guilty for what they did to him in OOTP so give him better grades or something. Maybe not though, just a thought. If that did happen, that would be really unfair, probably Ron might have a jealousy thing and Hermione might go all judgemental.
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MTW - Feb 8, 2004 4:00 pm (#20 of 298)
Harry
Potions- E ( wouldn't surprise me if he did get an O without Snape breathing down his neck and without the distractions of trying easedrop what Snape is saying to others)
Charms- E
Transfiguration- E
DaDa- O
Astronomy- P (Harry filled in a third of the chart, but that doesn't mean all of them were correct)
History- D
Divinations-D
CoMC- E (another possible O for Harry)
Herbology-A
Hermione will get all O's with one E just so she can obess about it.
Ron will get mostly A's ( wasn't distract as long in Astrology as Harry and didn't fall asleep in History) Possible higher marks in DADA at least an E, CoMC - E, maybe an E in Herbology
Neville will surprise everyone with an E in Potions ( same reason a Harry) and will be in Potions Newt classes because no one but Hermione will get an O in Potions. Snape wouldn't be able to stand two years of being in the same class alone with the insufferable know-it-all. 8Þ
Draco E in Potions and in Dada
Crabbe and Goyle Wouldn't be surpised if one of the two will get and E or two in their owls for Dada , CoMC or even Potions. It would be funny that Goyle would get an O in Dada with Draco getting an E
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Luanee - Feb 8, 2004 7:03 pm (#21 of 298)
OK, I know not anyone has voted yet, but I find all the postings to be kind of messy, so I decided to summarise a bit here:
Based on our predictions, Harry's best subjects (in order of merit) would be:
1. DADA (everyone gave him an O - what else can you ask for?)
2. CoMC (62% of voters gave him an O, the rest gave an E)
3. Transfiguration (25% of us gave him an O, 62% gave him an E, the rest an A)
4. Charms (all of us gave him an E in fact)
5. Herbology (62% gave him an E, the rest A)
6. Potion (55% gave him an E, the rest A)
7. Astronomy (75% gave him an A, the rest a P)
8. History of Magic (only 14% gave him a pass grade A, the rest mainly predicted a P)
9. Divination ( most of us predicted he will fail, sob sob)
OK, for the rest who hasnt voted, please continue to send in your predictions soon and we can have an updated summary later !!
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Luanee - Feb 9, 2004 1:26 am (#22 of 298)
Just for clarification, I only counted the votes for those who said "I guess' or 'I predict' or something to that extent. I did not count those who said 'I hope' or 'I wish' as I think that was not their vote but just something they wish to see happen. Hope this is fine with all.
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popkin - Feb 9, 2004 10:35 am (#23 of 298)
mother
Thanks for the tally, luanee.
I was just reading today that Harry believes that all the kids in Dumbledore's Army will get an "O" in DADA. If there are any provisions in the WW for a grade higher than "O" for students who demonstrate a better than outstanding performance in a subject, then Harry could get better than "O" in DADA. As the teacher, he should do better in the subject than his students.
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Luanee - Feb 9, 2004 4:47 pm (#24 of 298)
Grades higher than O ? Hmm... over here in my Muggle country, we have something called the S (special) papers for students really good in certain subjects, taken in the GCE 'A' Level - which I believe to be equivalent to NEWT. They have to apply to take that paper beforehand. I am not so sure about the wizarding world...
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Dr Filibuster - Feb 9, 2004 5:01 pm (#25 of 298)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
Yes, I was suprised that Hermione's exam timetable was so detailed in OoP. I'd have thought that she would have taken a few extra exams or special papers.
There could still be a chance she did I suppose?
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Emily - Feb 16, 2004 11:13 am (#26 of 298)
Potions - O(he need it, and it will spite Snape)
DADA - O(he is the best in the class, eve Hermione admits it)
CoMC - O(he was working extra hard for Hagrid, plus I think he found it[the subject] interesting)
Transfiguration - E(just enough to get into McG's NEWT class)
Charms - E(he did pretty well)
Herbology - E(he only got one bite, thats pretty good)
Astronomy - P(he didn't even fill the chart in all the way, plus, some of it could be wrong)
HoM - D/T(if it exists)(he answered about 3 questions, and I have a feeling that not even those are completely right)
Divination - P(it sounds like he messed up big time. I wouldn't like being told that I should have died 3 years ago, and I probably wouldn't pass someone who told me it)
Side note: Do you pronounce NEWTs as N-E-W-T's, or as newts(the word)?
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Joanna S Lupin - Feb 16, 2004 11:50 am (#27 of 298)
Little Bobik
Edited by Feb 16, 2004 10:53 am
As to prenounciation I do not know for certain, but I personally prenounce newts (the word) there is prenounciation guide on: you may check there
My OWLs predictions are as fallows:
Potions: E (I predict, however, that he will be allowed to take NEWT classes, Draco will receive A in transfiguration, and because of Snape and McGonnagall's agreement both Harry and Draco will be allowed to take NEWT classes)
Defence Against the Dark Arts: O (or better, special grade if exists)
Transfiguration: E
Care of Magical Creatures: O
Charms: E
Herbology: E
History of Magic: D
Astrology: P
Divination: A (it is a very imprecise branch of magic, so who knows maybe he did quite well )
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VeronikaG - Feb 17, 2004 5:41 am (#28 of 298)
Will Harry have to take History of Magic OWL's next year again, if he fails? Or the whole subject? Then he'll be in class with Ginny. Interesting...
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Dr Filibuster - Feb 17, 2004 4:56 pm (#29 of 298)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
It's certainly a possibility Veronika. I hadn't thought of that. Nice catch.
However, no characters have ever mentioned any re-sits or extra, older pupils attending Harry's 5th year classes.
Can't quite remember what happened at my school (only relevant if JKR keeps to her own experiences of 1980's comprehensive school). I think teachers set work to be done in student's free study periods...or just expected them to revise (swot up) ready for the re-sit in November.
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Tomoé - Feb 17, 2004 7:02 pm (#30 of 298)
Back in business
I don't know, the twins never mention re-sitting the half-dozen OWL they failed. But maybe that wasn't relevant enough so JKR didn't mention it.
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Gina R Snape - Feb 17, 2004 8:07 pm (#31 of 298)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Wouldn't it be funny if Umbridge's "Inquisatorial Squad" duties prevented those participating Slytherins from studying as much as they ought to have? It would serve them right. Heh, heh.
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Choices - Feb 18, 2004 3:46 pm (#32 of 298)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Gina - Would Snape's beverage line be called "Snapel" by any chance?? LOL
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popkin - Feb 18, 2004 10:43 pm (#33 of 298)
mother
The Slytherin captain (name escapes me) from PS/SS had to repeat a year. I would guess he took a lot of classes over.
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VeronikaG - Feb 19, 2004 3:24 am (#34 of 298)
Marcus Flint, you mean?
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Loopy Lupin - Feb 19, 2004 3:22 pm (#35 of 298)
Luannee,
I have some issues with Percy's 12 OWLs as well. Is it possible that you can get an OWL for the practical and an OWL for the essay? That's the only way I could see 12 for Percy without the time turner.
Also, if Snape, McGonngal, (and others) only accept certain students into NEWT classes (i.e. students who have achieved certain grades on OWLS), then what classes do the students who did poorly take? Could there be a NEWT Transfiguration class and a "normal" transfiguration class beyond OWL years?
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VeronikaG - Feb 20, 2004 2:14 am (#36 of 298)
I think they just have fewer classes after OWLs. In my last year in high school, I could leave math because I had had so many classes the two previous years. Maybe NEWTs works something like that.
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Chemyst - Feb 20, 2004 7:31 am (#37 of 298)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I needed time to go back and reread parts of the career advice and O.W.L.S chapters. To become an auror Harry will need 5 N.E.W.T.S at 'E' or higher, so I'd guess/deduce that as a minimum for OWLs he'd need 4 E's or higher and at least one other subject where he has a realistic chance of success if he works a little harder.
DADA with the bonus-point patronus is an O. The other must-do-wells to be an auror are charms, transfiguration and potions.
McGonagall said Flitwick had always given him between an A and E in the past. Harry was relaxed and did well during the written portion of the charms exam since the question recalled his troll-clubbing experience, so that would boost him toward the higher of the two marks. During the practical he mixed up the color-changing and growth charms but was able to quickly correct it. Charms is an E.
McGonagall requires at least an E for students to be accepted into her upper level classes. Harry forgot one definition on the written but was satisfied with the practical, so I'll count this as an E.
Potions is a stickler. It is required to become an auror. Snape takes only students who have made O. Even with the advantage of Snape being out of the room during the test I don't see Harry making an O. The book says only that Harry felt he "avoided a fail." I'm going to make a prediction that for the sake of storyline, Harry's score ties with Draco's. And that without Snape there to help him, and along with Gina's good idea of Inquisitional Squad duties interfering with study time, Draco does worse than usual. They both get an A. Snape will try to bend his own rule to let Draco in his class, but McGonagall's vow to help Harry results in her forcing Snape to admit Harry if he admits Draco. (Perhaps since no one else in the class wants to work with classmates who scored so low on the OWLs, the two end up as lab partners-- and another trip to the hospital wing is involved.)
Harry had put a lot of effort into CoMC for Hagrid's sake and was able to smile and give a thumb's up when it was over. That is another E. That gives him the minimum (as was defined by me, since it is not in the book) to get accepted into pre-auror classes.
In herbology he did 'reasonably well' with a 'small bite' so I give an A.
I think he would have done OK in astronomy but one cannot leave a sixth of the test blank and get a good grade. I give him a P.
Divination and history are both D.
I agree with the consensus that Hermione will get all O's but with one E to stew over. I think she is fast enough that she completed astronomy even with the distraction and her single E is in runes.
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Jenny M. - Feb 20, 2004 4:14 pm (#38 of 298)
I like your idea of the way Harry will get into NEWT-level potions class without scoring O. I bet we do see that.
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popkin - Feb 20, 2004 5:05 pm (#39 of 298)
mother
I think Hermione is going to score better on her OWLs than any student has since MacGonnagal.
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Anna L. Black - Feb 20, 2004 5:32 pm (#40 of 298)
My thoughts:
DADA - O, obviously.
Charms - E, for the reasons Chemyst mentioned.
Transfiguration - At least an E, an O is very possible (To forget one definition is not such a big deal, I think...)
Potions - At least A - certainly. I can hardly see him getting an O, so I think that most likely he got an E. And McGonagall will reach some sort of an agreement with Snape.
CoMC - an O, it was an easy subject and an easy exam.
Herbology - sounds like an E to me.
Astronomy - A, probably. He did well enough before the incident with Hagrid, McGonagall and Umbridge, so I don't think he failed. Plus, I think they'll consider the circumstances.
Divination - P, without any doubt - no way he passed this one.
History of Magic - either a P or a D. Unless Dumbledore steps in and states that Voldemort was troubling him during the exam, but that hardly will happen. And there's not much to fuss about anyway - surely Harry doesn't want to study History of Magic for another 2 years...
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Rich - Feb 20, 2004 10:38 pm (#41 of 298)
Families are about love overcoming emotional torture. -Matt Groening
In POA I think it mentions somewhere that Fred and George got their OWL results and this was before the year was finished, (I think Percy got his NEWT results too). It's pg. 313, Owl Post Again.
Why do you think that is?
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Bash - Feb 21, 2004 9:21 pm (#42 of 298)
Maybe they changed the system of announcing the results over the two year interval.
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Madame Librarian - Feb 22, 2004 10:33 am (#43 of 298)
Here's the citation from OoP about OWL results:
Chapter 31, pg. 709 (US), McG is explaining how the OWL tests will be organized. Hermione asks--
"Please, Professor, said Hermione, her hand in the air, "when will we find out our results?"
"An owl will be sent to you some time in July," said Professor McGonagall.
"Excellent," said Dean Thomas in an audible whisper, "so we don't have to worry about it till the holidays...."
Harry imagined sitting in his bedroom in Privet Drive in six weeks' time, waiting for his O.W.L. results. Well, he thought dully, at least he would be sure of getting one bit of post next summer....
Ciao. Barb
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alexa - Feb 23, 2004 12:33 am (#44 of 298)
Harry should grab 5 OWLS. (slightly better than Fred & George - they have 3 OWLS each, right?)The 5 OWLS for Harry would be DADA, COMC, Herbology, Transfiguration and Potions.
Ron might get 1 OWL less than Harry. Maybe he would not score an OWL in Transfiguration.
Hermione should get 10 OWLS. (If Percy could achieve 12 OWLS, it shouldn't be a problem for Hermione to get straight OWLS.)
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Iverson Godfrey - Feb 23, 2004 5:24 pm (#45 of 298)
Harry Potter fan since 2002
I'm surprised that nobody thinks Harry will score an "O" in Charms.
All of the examiners were present to witness his Patronus CHARM weren't they? Didn't Lupin tell Harry that this charm was very advanced magic and that many qualified wizards were not able to do it effectively. He uses a lot of other charms for defensive purposes as well, doesn't he? It seems this would count toward a very good mark in spite of the fact that Harry has applied most of his charms energy to the ones with good DADA applications.
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Bash - Feb 23, 2004 5:32 pm (#46 of 298)
Harry only did the Patronus charm in the DADA exam Iverson Godfrey.
I expect that it counts as advanced DADA rather than Charms.
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Czarina - Feb 23, 2004 8:04 pm (#47 of 298)
But if ALL the examiners were impressed with Harry's Patronus Charm, that might have awarded him some extra points in Charms. Harry might have done an outstanding job in Charms, too -- do we know what the examiners are thinking as they take (insert length of time until Rowling is finished Book 6) to consider Harry Potter's scores? It's all speculation.
Loopy Lupin - Feb 24, 2004 7:56 am (#48 of 298)[/b]
I think that the following will be Harry's and Hermione's grades. (First, I still wonder if anyone has given any thought to my prior post: Do you get an OWL for theory and and OWL for the practical? This could explain Percy's 12. Otherwise, it will be hard for Harry or even Hermione to match that)
Harry-- DADA-- Outstanding; Charms-- E.E.; Transfiguration-- E.E.; COMC-- Outstanding; Potions-- E.E.; Divination-- Acceptable.
Astronomy is a question mark because it was interrupted by Umbridge when Harry's chart was 2/3 done I think. Either, 2/3 will be enough for a passing grade or some type of allowance will be made since such a scene happened to disrupt the exam. History of Magic will probably be just too bad for Harry, unless an allowance can be made for the fact that Voldemort was behind him, Harry, running out of the exam. (Now that everyone believes Voldemort is back). I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe these grades would allow Harry to proceed to NEWTS in the classes he needs to become an Auror. If not, then bump them up a notch because I don't think JKR will allow Harry's auror aspiration to be dashed by OWLS.
Hermione Charms--O; Arithmancy--O; DADA--O; Ancient Runes-- E.E.; Transfiguration-- O; History of Magic-- O; Astronomy-- O; COMC-- O; Potions-- O.
Ancient Runes is E.E. because I believe there will be at least one class where Hermione doesn't achieve "outstanding" and it will drive her mad.
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Luanee - Feb 24, 2004 4:38 pm (#49 of 298)
Hi Loopy, I was thinking if they award 2 separate grades for both practical and theory papers, Percy would have gotten more than 12 OWLs right? Considering if he took 10 subjects like Hermione, and there are more than 2 subjects offering practical examinations (Transfiguration, Charms, DADA...) ?
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alexa - Feb 24, 2004 9:33 pm (#50 of 298)
Sorry, I am getting confused over here. I know OWL stands for "Ordinary Wizard Level", right? Does O.W.L include passed grades- O, E, and A?
If Percy achieved 12 OWLs, that means he passed all his subjects, but that is not really an achievement, is it? It would be impressive if he achieved 12 'Outstanding' but not 12 'OWLs' Many students could pass all the subjects, at least I imagined most of the Ravenclaws could, if they have the sharpest mind.
So if Fred and George got 3 OWLs each, did they fail all their rest of the subjects? The Weasley twins can't be that bad, can they?
When I predicted Harry grabbing 5 OWLs, I was thinking about 5 Outstandings. But if OWL means passed grades, then I should be predicting 9 OWLs for Harry instead, because I don't think Harry would fail any subject, sorry, 8 OWLS, I am forgetting about Divination.
Any thoughts, anyone?
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Predictions for Harry’s OWLs grades (Post 51 to 100)
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Luanee - Feb 24, 2004 9:54 pm (#51 of 298)
Alexa,
When they refer to the number of OWLS, it meant a pass grade, that is all O, E and A grades are OWLS. 'O' the highest grade stands for 'Outstanding'. Percy's 12 OWLS are worth mentioning because not everyone took 12 subjects, as you see, Harry and Ron only took 9 subjects, hence the maximum number of OWLS they can get is 9 (though I still haven't figure out how Percy managed 12 OWLs without the time-turner).
And yes, the Weasley twins did fail the other subjects, meaning they got P, D or T for those subjects, hence they did not get an OWL for those.
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alexa - Feb 24, 2004 10:10 pm (#52 of 298)
Luanee, thanks.
That's means we only know Percy achieved 12 OWLs, but we don't know his grades. But since he managed to get into MOM, he must have achieved many 'O's.
But do you think JKR will go into details of their grades? Maybe she just ended up telling us how many OWLs HRH achieved?
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VeronikaG - Feb 25, 2004 3:52 am (#53 of 298)
Maybe this is on the wrong thread, but in the first book, when Harry meets Ron on the train, Ron says that Fred and George get good grades, even if they spend much time being up to nothing good. That must mean their grades have dropped drastically in their later school years.
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Loopy Lupin - Feb 25, 2004 7:08 am (#54 of 298)
Luannee,
Yeah, I guess my separation theory doesn't really hold water now that I think about it. (By the way, I forgot about Herbology above and I guess Harry would get an E.E. in that as well; also, I would change the Potions prediction to an O because I just re-read the part in OoP where McGonagall tells Harry that he needs that grade in potions to proceed to N.E.W.T. level. Since he needs that to be an Auror, I believe that's what he will get. It will also make for some nice tension between Harry and Snape if Harry gets a top grade in spite of Snapes efforts to fail him).
Anyway, Harry takes DADA;COMC;Charms;Transfig;Divn.;Potions;Herb;Astro;and HOM. That's 9 and Hermione doesn't take Divn. but takes Arithmancy and Ancient Runes which gives her 10. So, Percy's 12 would just be two more classes. Maybe that could be worked in somehow, but 12 was, indeed, the number that Hermione was taking (she used to take Divn. and Muggle Studies too)in her third year and she needed the time turner for that.
Also, as to Fred and George's "good grades" from the first book. Fred and George were starting their third year then. Maybe they went downhill. Also, its seems sort of understood in OoP that O.W.L. tests are graded to a higher standard than ordinary class work. Plus, anything you've covered for the past 4 years could come up on the test. So its not unthinkable that someone, even someone with "good grades," could fail.
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Phoenix - Feb 25, 2004 8:28 am (#55 of 298)
Nicola Mlynek
I've always got the impression that 'Gred and Forge' have taken almost all the classes in their final years and don't seem to have any fewer subjects than Harry and Ron. Has anyone else noticed this? So it seems to me that students chose the subjects they want to take at NEWT level, but also carry on with the other compulsory ones, maybe just for knowledge in later life.
Anyway, my predictions for Harry's OWL's are as follows:
Transfiguration-E Potions-O (just to prove to Snape he can) Charms-O History of Magic-P Herbology-E Astronomy-A (they have to take into account the distractions) DADA-O CoMC-E Divination-D
I think Ron will get one less pass grade than Harry, and Hermione will obviously be top of the year with straight O's. She may get one E to stew over, as someone said above.
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Czarina - Feb 25, 2004 8:30 am (#56 of 298)
Yes, O.W.L.s are definitely graded differently than normal classwork. That's why it is a great achievement to get 12 or 10 or 9 of them. Six is probably the average. Harry getting 7 or 8 O.W.L.s (or even 6) would be perfectly normal and considered a good job. Hermione getting 10 would be considering fantastic.
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Loopy Lupin - Feb 25, 2004 10:12 am (#57 of 298)
Nicola, yeah I have noticed that the students above O.W.L. year don't take fewer classes, but seem to be carrying on with the standards. (What specifically comes to mind is Fred, George, and Lee talking about how great Moody's--the fake Moody-- class was in GOF. They would have been 6th years then and passed O.W.L.) Maybe there are your standard classes that you can take past your O.W.L. year, but "advanced" classes (N.E.W.T. classes) you can opt to take if you intend to take those exams later.
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Phoenix - Feb 25, 2004 1:12 pm (#58 of 298)
Nicola Mlynek
Thanks for clearing that Loopy Lupin. I thought I may have been the only one to notice. I've also noticed that Harry and Ron don't seem to have a free period when Hermione has Ancient Runes (she has Arithmancy at the same time they have Divination).
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Dr Filibuster - Feb 25, 2004 4:08 pm (#59 of 298)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
It's JKR's world, but I really do think that OWLs and NEWTs heavily reflect her own exam experiences of the 1980's, ie the English & Welsh O levels and A levels.
As such, the numbers of passes Czarina describes in post 56 are spot on.
Having said that, only the top students took O levels and even then there were plenty of fails. Maybe Rowling doesn't introduce a lower exam because she didn't want to bog down her novels?
With O levels there were no assignments, SATs or continual assesments, everything was based on the exam. For example, you may have been the top of your class in French for the past 5 years but the day of your exam you are feeling unwell, perform badly and fail.
UK muggles can leave school at 16 (or 15 if your birthday is in the summer like my brother or JKR), so nothing is compulsary anymore. If you wish to stay in Further Education and do A levels, they are more intense and detailed. You have more classes for each subject. If Harry takes 5 NEWTs he may not have any free periods.
I assumed that the twins were taking DADA NEWT. I imagine that subject would appeal to them, especially after Lupin's teaching during their 5th year. I shall go back and check GoF and OoP for any other subjects they mentioned.
I don't think the Lexicon has a list of known NEWT subjects for characters, or a summary of exam passes. I am sure this will be added after Book 6.
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alexa - Feb 25, 2004 5:44 pm (#60 of 298)
Hi Loopy and Luanee,
Going back to your post on separate OWLs for Theory and practical,we can look at the individual subjects as below:
Subjects (theory and practical) 1) Charms 2) Transfiguration 3) DADA 4) Potions 5) Astronomy
Subjects (theory only) 1) History of Magic 2) Ancient Runes 3) Arithmancy 4) Muggle Studies (Assuming that they do not have practical papers for that three elective subjects)
Subjects (practical only) 1) Herbology 2) CoMC 3) Divination (I am not too sure about if they had theory papers for these subjects, but it was not mentioned in OoP)
We do not know Percy took which elective subjects, but assuming he took the same subjects as Harry, he might be able to acheive 12 OWLS without using the time-turner.
Or we could simply assume that Percy did use the time-turner. After all, in McGonagall's eyes, Percy was a good student and could be trust to use a time-turner too. McGonagall could have simply write to MOM to request for a time-turner for Percy, as what she has done for Hermione.
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Luanee - Feb 26, 2004 12:11 am (#61 of 298)
Hi Alexa, if Percy took the same subjects as Harry, and going by your counting as above, he would have got 14 OWLs in all, as I do not expect Percy to score below an 'A' for any of his subjects, whether theory or practical.
Charms(2), Transfiguration(2), DADA(2), Potions(2), Astronomy(2), History of Magic(1), Herbology(1), CoMC(1), Divination(1)
If Percy really did used the time-turner, he must be very good, as Hermione was having really a hard time coping with all her subjects in her 3rd year.
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Czarina - Feb 26, 2004 9:43 am (#62 of 298)
Even if Percy is an excellent student, he might have indeed failed two OWLs. Imagine studying for all those classes!
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Mad Madame Mim - Feb 26, 2004 10:12 am (#63 of 298)
"Don't tell me you've never heard of the marvellous Madame Mim?"
Percy could have failed History of Magic and Divinations. Its a thought.
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Anna L. Black - Feb 26, 2004 1:45 pm (#64 of 298)
Percy? Failing History of Magic? Never - it was probably one of his favorites. OK, so I'm exaggerating a little
But still, I don't think it's likely for him to fail HoM - that subject only requires memorizing a lot of boring stuff - sounds like Percy, doesn't it?
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alexa - Feb 26, 2004 5:46 pm (#65 of 298)
Luanee, my predictions for Harry's OWLs grades:-
DADA,CoMC,Charms: 'O' Transfiguration,Herbology,:'E' Potions,Astronomy:'A' History of Magic,Divination:'P'
I know your thread doesn't include Hermione's grades, but I will like to predict hers too.
CoMC, Charms, Transfiguration, Herbology, Potions, Arithmancy, History of Magic: 'O' Astronomy, Ancient Runes, DADA: 'E'
I know Hermione is very good in DADA, but since Harry is the leader of DA, I hope his DADA's grade is better than Hermione.
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Bash - Feb 26, 2004 11:44 pm (#66 of 298)
I would expect Harry to get a bonus point above O grade and the rest of the fifth year recruits to DA to get O in DADA. It is likely that Hermione will only get an E in Ancient Runes though; something for her to stew over!
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Acceber - Mar 6, 2004 9:16 am (#67 of 298)
Ruler of Omeletteheads
Like Bash, I really hope all fifth year DA members get an O in DADA. It just seams not like JKR not to give it to them after she plainly said Harry wished for it.
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Hogs Head - Mar 6, 2004 4:17 pm (#68 of 298)
Premium Pork But Not Premium HP Member Anymore - Wah!
Somehow Harry's grades will be good enough to let him move forward on the path toward being an Auror. Even if one mark or another is too low, there will be some avenue around that obstacle. This could indeed be a good subplot for Book 6.
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Detail Seeker - Mar 8, 2004 3:12 pm (#69 of 298)
Quod tempus non sanat, sanat ferrum,... so prepare
I would, in fact, feel a little bit cheated, if Harry came into NEWT potions by bargaining behind the curtains. It would back up Snape´s view of Harry getting special rules on everything. Not a good basis for intensive work, Snape always taunting Harry: "You are only here, because..." He should and will find better ways of taunting Harry and making him study harder. For he will need to be good.
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 9, 2004 3:09 pm (#70 of 298)
I agree with Detail Seeker. I almost look at Harry's O in potions as a given as much as (well, almost) Harry being acquitted in his hearing in OoP. It seems to me that Rowling has certainly set the stage for Harry and even Neville to do surprisingly well since they didn't have Snape discouraging them. Plus, Harry just has to remain in potions because the tension brewing between Harry and Snape is too interesting and intense not to be explored further.
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firebird - Mar 10, 2004 7:23 am (#71 of 298)
I don't know, it didn't seem Harry was very confident during his exam. I can't remember exactly what he said, but it doesn't seem that just because Snape is not there that Harry would get an O. I mean, if he was so distracted in class with Snape, it doesn't seem as if he would have had the brainpower to memorise all those difficult Potion recipes. Classwork would certainly have an impact on his exam grades... I think it's more plausible that Draco Malfoy gets a low grade or that no-one gets above an E (or A even), and so Snape himself bends the rules to allow people with E's into his NEWT class. And I agree, Detail Seeker, DD can't keep favouring Harry and treating him specially in everything, esp. academics.
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 10, 2004 7:40 am (#72 of 298)
That is an interesting twist I hadn't thought of. If everyone does horribly, it would reflect on the potions professor to a great extent.
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Mad Madame Mim - Mar 10, 2004 11:52 am (#73 of 298)
"Don't tell me you've never heard of the marvellous Madame Mim?"
Snape is not the one grading them is how I understand it. Though I'm from the States, I see OWLS similar to our Basic Skills test done at certain grade levels. From past experience some teachers merely based their curriculum on perpareing the students for the tests while a few others prepared students to exceeded all requirements that the test had. Those that taught to exceeded rather than meet, had more difficult classes with higher expectations. Perhaps Snape's examines and grading methods are demanding then the OWLS.
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 10, 2004 12:02 pm (#74 of 298)
"Anyone can cook"
I suspect Harry will get an O in Potions. It just creates too many complications if he doesn't.
One: Whenever Dumbledore has intervened with Snape on Harry's behalf, it has always been to right a wrong, or to make an executive decision on a matter that can be argued both ways. This is not the case here. Snape has been absolutely adament about only O-OWLS being allowed into his NEWT class. It is a long standing rule. If Dumbldeore would to interfer here, it would be a clear show of favortism towards Harry against Snape.
There is one way around this, however. If Snape were to bend the rules for Malfoy, Dumbledore would be justified in insisting he bend the rules for Harry. But that is the only case I can think of where the ethics involved would allow it.
Two: If Harry "cheated" on getting into NEWT-level Potions, that reputation would follow him. How would it affect his goal of becoming an Auror?
Three: If Snape was forced to accept Harry against his established rules, he would have very valid reasons to deeply resent it. Dumbledore simply cannot afford a deeply resetful Snape. The man has turned his coat before. He could do it again.
Four: Snape could and would do all sorts of things to sabotage Harry in his NEWT class.
No, Harry has to get in on his own. The only exception is if Snape bends the rules himself.
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Tomoé - Mar 10, 2004 12:26 pm (#75 of 298)
Back in business
There could be an other way to allow Harry to rightfully get NEWT Potion even if he didn't get O. Maybe the House Head do a exchange of favor each year, asking one of their colleague to take a student of their House that shouldn't be allow to take a subject.
We know Hannah Abbott did badly in her Practical Transfiguration (Sprout asking a favor to MacGonagall), Harry didn't feel like he did well in both Practical and Theory of Potion (MacGonagall asking a favor to Snape) and Malfoy didn't do well in his Pratical Charms (Snape asking a favor to Flitwick). All we need is a Ravenclaw who did bad in Herbology and the circle is full.
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 10, 2004 1:48 pm (#76 of 298)
Madame Mim, I don't think Snape normally grades above or at OWL standard. In fact, in he made it a point in OoP to point out to the class that he was grading their first assignment to OWL standards to give them some idea what to expect. Hermione was OK with her E since it wasn't too bad ("Not if he's grading to O.W.L. standards" or something like that), Ron wasn't fussed about his "good healthy P," but Harry resolved to work harder since he got a D.
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 10, 2004 3:42 pm (#77 of 298)
"Anyone can cook"
I am sorry, Tomoé, but I cannot see that happening in this case. What about the personalities of the people involved. Both McGonagall and Snape are known for being extremely strict. They both set high standards, and they both insist that students meet them. They both have too much integrity.
Flitwick, Sprout, and the others are likely a lot more flexible. I don't know. But I simply cannot imagine Snape and McGonagall trading placements like that. It would go sorely against their grain. That would also be why Snape would highly resent Dumbledore forcing him to take Harry in NEWT Potions.
No. Harry has to get an 'O' on his Potions OWL. There are no two ways about it.
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Tomoé - Mar 10, 2004 4:35 pm (#78 of 298)
Back in business
Of course Harry would need at least an E for that to work, and the four students will have to need the subject to get the career they want. Deals like that take place in the muggle world, mostly with Headmasters, I admit, but I don't see why it couldn't take place in Wizarding World all the same.
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Emily - Mar 16, 2004 6:54 pm (#79 of 298)
I was thinking (a rare occurance(sp?)), supposing Snape doesn't take Harry because he doesn't get an O, and DD can't force it on him for the above reasons, and he doesn't bend the rule for Malfoy, so he doesn't have to take Harry either. What happens? Do you think McG was serious (almost typed Sirius)about saying she would coach Harrry nightly if need be? Or does he have to drop his career goal all together. I seriously (again, almost Siriusly - ugh!) doubt it. Or maybe DD will again attempt to put Harry in a private class with Snape, except this time it is really remedial potions. I doubt this too.
I'ts certainly easiest if JKR gives him an O, but sometimes it seems like JKR does the oppposite of what's easy on purpose. (Wow... just thought of DD's quote while I was typing that - 'If you have a choice between doing what is right and what is easy, remember Cedric Diggory, or something like that... Not that it's applicable)
Edit: This post doesn't seem to have made any sense, so if you know what I mean, please tell me!
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S.E. Jones - Mar 16, 2004 8:08 pm (#80 of 298)
Let it snow!
I don't know if this has been mentioned as yet, but what does everyone think of the old ideas some of us once had that Snape would have to lower his standards and allow Draco in (because he didn't get an O -- assumption, of course) and McGonagall will remind him that he has to let in all the other kids applying to his class with the same grade as Draco (which will include Harry); or that Snape and McGonagall will strike a deal where they each allow the other's student into one of their NEWT level courses, even though they don't qualify.... I rather liked the first idea....
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Madame Librarian - Mar 16, 2004 9:27 pm (#81 of 298)
I like the idea that Harry will have to go to summer school to do remedial potions, and maybe, guess who has to join him? Ta dah...Ferret Boy! Whoa, not a pretty thought is it?
Ciao. Barb
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Tomoé - Mar 17, 2004 7:07 am (#82 of 298)
Back in business
Intensive Remedial Potions in summer, to take the test again on August, that sounds more fair that the other options (except for Harry scoring an O, of course).
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 17, 2004 7:29 am (#83 of 298)
Summer school would be a possible explanation as to why Book 6 will be his shortest stay on Privet Drive ever as JKR has stated it will be. I mean her statement could be a red herring of sorts in that maybe Harry just gets to go to the Burrow earlier than he has in the past, but somehow I doubt it.
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firebird - Mar 19, 2004 1:13 pm (#84 of 298)
S.E.Jones: I've always thought that was a good idea, and I think that such a situation would be relatively easy to fit into the next book. It doesn't take much explaining, and it's not so out of character for Snape. But still, I'm wondering if Snape would keep favouring Malfoy (and bending the rules for him) after all that's happened, and if so, what his reasons could possibly be! I suppose he could do it just to keep an eye on him. Or maybe he really does like Malfoy - maybe he IS in fact a good potions student, except for the fact that he just didn't get good marks in his OWLs this year (because of his Inquisitorial Squad duty maybe).
Or how about Snape just WANTS to teach NEWT level potions ( -for the challenge, maybe? I mean, he must really detest teaching first-year potions since it is so far below his intellectual level, or perhaps he needs the teaching hours for keeping a decent salary? or any number of reasons- ) and NONE of the incompetent fifth-years gets above an E! Except maybe Hermione. But he can't very well teach a class with only one student. So he decides to take in all students with an E or above...?
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 19, 2004 1:36 pm (#85 of 298)
firebird, I think Snape will have to keep pretending (if he is indeed pretending) to like and favor Draco. Whatever conflicts there may be in his mind, he must keep up appearances and he cannot let Draco go complaining to Lucius that Snape is being mean to him.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 19, 2004 3:51 pm (#86 of 298)
Let it snow!
Part of that theory was also that, if Draco got an O and Crabbe and Goyle returned for their sixth year, he may change the rule for one of them instead. Also, he would probably still be acting as a double agent and thus would need to keep us appearances with those families....
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Luanee - Apr 11, 2004 10:05 pm (#87 of 298)
Here is a summary of our predictions:
DADA – O for sure
Transfiguration – Most votes: E ; 2nd most: O ; 3rd most: A
Charms – Most: E ; 2nd: O
CoMC – Most: O ; 2nd: E
Herbology – Most: E ; 2nd: A
Astronomy – Most: A ; 2nd: P
Potions – Most: E ; 2nd: A ; 3rd: O
HoM – Most: P ; 2nd: D ; 3rd: A ; 4th: T
Divination – Most: P ; 2nd: A and D
I wonder how right we are?
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Lagniappe - Apr 12, 2004 1:42 pm (#88 of 298)
I just never got the impression that Harry was an 'O' level Potions student, and I'll be very surprised if he somehow pulls one off. But I don't think that Snape will be forced to take him into his NEWT class - I just don't see JKR creating that sort of scenario (too many negative implications). I like the ideas that people have mentioned regarding no one but Hermione scoring an 'O' so either students will have to go to summer school or Snape will have to relax his standards.
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dobbyiscool - Apr 12, 2004 2:25 pm (#89 of 298)
Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
Or, only Slythrins will get an 'O', so he'll get in major trouble for overly favoring his own students. I do think that Snape will have Harry in his NEWT level class, only because other wise Snape isn't around as much. Outside of DADA class, once Harry gets a teacher, they haven't left the series (correct me if I am incorrect there). Snape is an important charactor, so I doubt Harry gets out of that class so easy.
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MTW - Apr 12, 2004 6:37 pm (#90 of 298)
I think the Snape requirement, for Newt classes, would be bent more easily if only one or two people get an O, Hermione being one of the two . Allowing both Draco and Harry into the class.
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Loopy Lupin - Apr 13, 2004 5:49 am (#91 of 298)
I don't think Harry's an O level Potions student, but something's got to give here. We know Harry wants to be an Auror and it's doubtful, I think, that JKR will foreclose him from pursuing that so soon. So my thought was that he would pull an O on the OWL. I wouldn't be surprised if several students did. Snape, of course, would try to take credit, but all the O students would know that they did well only because, for once, they didn't have Snape's sneering face standing over them.
(Just an aside, it is kind of brutal that everyone's future is being decided by a test they take at age 15. Is this anything close to the real world in Britain?)
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Catherine - Apr 13, 2004 6:50 am (#92 of 298)
Canon Seeker
I can't imagine that Harry is truly an O level Potions student, but we know from Umbridge's observation that the class is "advanced for their level." Snape has given them really difficult potions to do, especially fifth year, so the O.W.L. test may not have been that hard for them. Snape's absence from the test may also have helped, as did Harry's detailed answer about Polyjuice Potion.
I would hate to see Ron's and Harry's Auror dreams come crashing down because they didn't get an O.
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Madame Librarian - Apr 13, 2004 9:08 am (#93 of 298)
What if for some bizarre reason Snape is not the Potions Master next term?! This isn't meant to take over the topic of this thread, but is suggested as a way Harry could be allowed into the NEWT-level class. The new teacher's standards are a bit lower, or special petitions offered by DD and/or Minerva get Harry a place in the class.
Ciao. Barb
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Mad Madame Mim - Apr 13, 2004 9:43 am (#94 of 298)
"Don't tell me you've never heard of the marvellous Madame Mim?"
So if Snape is not teaching potions, then what would he be teaching if he is still at Hogwarts?
DADA?
Actually it would make sense. With war ready to happen at any minute, the students including Harry need someone with experience in the dark arts to teach them. It would be a miserable class, but more than a passing grade is at stake.
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Loopy Lupin - Apr 13, 2004 9:56 am (#95 of 298)
Mmm. Interesting thought Mad Madam. We all wonder, of course, why DD keeps Snape from the job he would like. I always assumed that it was sort of like the same reason it wouldn't be a good idea for a recovering alcoholic to work as a bartender, too much temptation. But maybe DD's been saving him for the job until the right time.
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Vern Afanofhp - Apr 13, 2004 9:54 pm (#96 of 298)
A thought why, DD is keeping Snape a potions master-- It maybe is because--It is, simpler to replace a DADA teacher--than a Potions Master.. My thought --
I still think Harry Is going to get an O.....
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Tomoé - Apr 14, 2004 12:27 am (#97 of 298)
Back in business
Why DD keeps Snape away from the DADA teacher post? JKR already answer that question.
Royal Albert Hall, June 2003:
Jackson: Professor Snape has always wanted to be Defence Against Dark Arts teacher. In book 5 he still hasn’t got the job. Why does Professor Dumbedore not allow him to be Defence Against The Dark Arts teacher?
JK Rowling: That is an excellent question and the reason is that I have to be careful what I say here. To answer it fully would give a lot away about the remaining two books. When Professor Dumbledore took Professor Snape onto the staff and Professor Snape said “I’d like to be Professor of Defence Against the Dark Arts please” and Professor Dumbledore felt it might bring out the worst in Snape so said “I think we’ll get you to teach Potions and see how you get along there”.
So, does DD think it's safe to give Snape the DADA teacher post or will that wait for book seven?
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Liz Mann - May 8, 2004 3:52 pm (#98 of 298)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I haven't read all this thread but my prediction is that Harry will get an O in Potions. McGonagall said that Snape doesn't let anyone in his N.E.W.T class unless they got that. And if Harry doesn't do Potions, he won't become an Auror.
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Raistlin - May 11, 2004 2:26 pm (#99 of 298)
I think Harry will get O's in every sublect except divination, astronomy, and history of magic. Harry has a history of underestimating himself. Until he was forced to see it, he did not believe he really did accomplished much on his own at the meeting to establish the DA. I think that the mistakes Harry made during his OWLs were not all that great. I would equate the OWL grading scale to the A,B,C,D,F (from my own schooling) grading scale where(of course we are on grade short): O=A=90% or better E=B=80% or better A=C=70% or better P=D=60% or better D=F=50% or better T=?=Less than 50%
Obviously, he will get an O in DADA. I think he steps up to the plate in Trans and did very well, with the exception of the one question he missed, O. In Charms he only switched around two spells and quickly caught it, O In Herbology he only received on small bite, hardly a big mistake, O In Astronomy, he says he thought he did okay on the written, missed a good bit on the practical what with the stunning on MCG and all, I think he would do well enough on the written for an A In Divination, who really knows what the grading is like, he could have any grade as high as an A, but probably not higher. In History of Magic, Harry never really paid much attention, but may have gotten enough for an A. In Care of Magical Creatures, Harry should do very well, considering his close relationship to Hagrid and his desire to excel, O. Finally, in Potions, Harry has never really been all that bad in this class IMO, he is just often harrangued by Snape or distracted by other events. I think that with the lack of Snape and his wanting to do well, he will get an O.
Of course, I am extremely Harry biased, but I think that Harry is much more critical of hisself than others are. Also, he really got focused on his mistakes, and at least in my experience, that tends to only make you think you did worse than you actually did.
Also, OWL's may be graded to a completely different standard, like O's being 95% or something. This is just my 2 knuts. Thanks for reading this huge post.
Raistlin
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ex-FAHgeek - May 18, 2004 9:45 pm (#100 of 298)
Thanks for the quote, Tomoe. I think there's one other thing about which we need to think: Severus Snape is one of the best potion makers in the British Isles. Remember the wolfsbane potion? Dumbledore may have been telling Snape to make the potion for Lupin, but I think Lupin is being very honest when he mentions how lucky he is that Snape is one of the few people capable of making it. Additionally, I've always had the feeling that Snape brewed those Veritaserums himself, and that certainly can't be easy. Thus, he's incredibly valuable in the position of Potions Master.
As for Harry's grades, I think he'll do well overall, but I don't think he'll have more than, say, two O's.
DADA - O, of course.
Transfiguration - E. He and McGonnegal were working to bring him up from an A, so I think this should well-represent their goals for his improvement. I think he has potential for O on his NEWTs, but I don't think he's there yet. He does need the E to get into McGonnegal's class anyway.
Potions - A or an E. He'll do much better without Snape, Malfoy, etc. trashing his projects, but Harry hates Potions. It wasn't until his career meeting that he had any desire to excel - up until that point, he was just trying to pass until he could drop the subject. I don't think he'll be able to recover from four-and-a-half years of hating the class so easily. While he supposedly needs the O, I think JKR will find another way to get Harry into class with Snape - either through the lowered standard suggestion, or continued Occulmency lessons.
Charms - E, although I wouldn't be completely taken by surprise if he got an O. He was performing A to E and was motivated to do better after learning he needed them.
Herbology - A to E. Harry doesn't care as much about this test as some of the others and it's never been portrayed as a subject he worries/enjoys too much.
Care of Magical Creatures - A or E, although this is one in which we could potentially be surprised by an O. I'm mixed about it. Harry really wants to do well so Hagrid gets some good review, and he thinks it went alright... but the fact of the matter is that Hagrid wasn't the greatest teacher.
Divination - Harry will be flunking out of this one...
Astronomy - At best, an A. We don't know how much that star chart will count, and that's not taking into account the various random mistakes on the other part of the test.
History of Magic - P or A. I'll lean toward A.
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Alexa,
When they refer to the number of OWLS, it meant a pass grade, that is all O, E and A grades are OWLS. 'O' the highest grade stands for 'Outstanding'. Percy's 12 OWLS are worth mentioning because not everyone took 12 subjects, as you see, Harry and Ron only took 9 subjects, hence the maximum number of OWLS they can get is 9 (though I still haven't figure out how Percy managed 12 OWLs without the time-turner).
And yes, the Weasley twins did fail the other subjects, meaning they got P, D or T for those subjects, hence they did not get an OWL for those.
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alexa - Feb 24, 2004 10:10 pm (#52 of 298)
Luanee, thanks.
That's means we only know Percy achieved 12 OWLs, but we don't know his grades. But since he managed to get into MOM, he must have achieved many 'O's.
But do you think JKR will go into details of their grades? Maybe she just ended up telling us how many OWLs HRH achieved?
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VeronikaG - Feb 25, 2004 3:52 am (#53 of 298)
Maybe this is on the wrong thread, but in the first book, when Harry meets Ron on the train, Ron says that Fred and George get good grades, even if they spend much time being up to nothing good. That must mean their grades have dropped drastically in their later school years.
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Loopy Lupin - Feb 25, 2004 7:08 am (#54 of 298)
Luannee,
Yeah, I guess my separation theory doesn't really hold water now that I think about it. (By the way, I forgot about Herbology above and I guess Harry would get an E.E. in that as well; also, I would change the Potions prediction to an O because I just re-read the part in OoP where McGonagall tells Harry that he needs that grade in potions to proceed to N.E.W.T. level. Since he needs that to be an Auror, I believe that's what he will get. It will also make for some nice tension between Harry and Snape if Harry gets a top grade in spite of Snapes efforts to fail him).
Anyway, Harry takes DADA;COMC;Charms;Transfig;Divn.;Potions;Herb;Astro;and HOM. That's 9 and Hermione doesn't take Divn. but takes Arithmancy and Ancient Runes which gives her 10. So, Percy's 12 would just be two more classes. Maybe that could be worked in somehow, but 12 was, indeed, the number that Hermione was taking (she used to take Divn. and Muggle Studies too)in her third year and she needed the time turner for that.
Also, as to Fred and George's "good grades" from the first book. Fred and George were starting their third year then. Maybe they went downhill. Also, its seems sort of understood in OoP that O.W.L. tests are graded to a higher standard than ordinary class work. Plus, anything you've covered for the past 4 years could come up on the test. So its not unthinkable that someone, even someone with "good grades," could fail.
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Phoenix - Feb 25, 2004 8:28 am (#55 of 298)
Nicola Mlynek
I've always got the impression that 'Gred and Forge' have taken almost all the classes in their final years and don't seem to have any fewer subjects than Harry and Ron. Has anyone else noticed this? So it seems to me that students chose the subjects they want to take at NEWT level, but also carry on with the other compulsory ones, maybe just for knowledge in later life.
Anyway, my predictions for Harry's OWL's are as follows:
Transfiguration-E Potions-O (just to prove to Snape he can) Charms-O History of Magic-P Herbology-E Astronomy-A (they have to take into account the distractions) DADA-O CoMC-E Divination-D
I think Ron will get one less pass grade than Harry, and Hermione will obviously be top of the year with straight O's. She may get one E to stew over, as someone said above.
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Czarina - Feb 25, 2004 8:30 am (#56 of 298)
Yes, O.W.L.s are definitely graded differently than normal classwork. That's why it is a great achievement to get 12 or 10 or 9 of them. Six is probably the average. Harry getting 7 or 8 O.W.L.s (or even 6) would be perfectly normal and considered a good job. Hermione getting 10 would be considering fantastic.
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Loopy Lupin - Feb 25, 2004 10:12 am (#57 of 298)
Nicola, yeah I have noticed that the students above O.W.L. year don't take fewer classes, but seem to be carrying on with the standards. (What specifically comes to mind is Fred, George, and Lee talking about how great Moody's--the fake Moody-- class was in GOF. They would have been 6th years then and passed O.W.L.) Maybe there are your standard classes that you can take past your O.W.L. year, but "advanced" classes (N.E.W.T. classes) you can opt to take if you intend to take those exams later.
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Phoenix - Feb 25, 2004 1:12 pm (#58 of 298)
Nicola Mlynek
Thanks for clearing that Loopy Lupin. I thought I may have been the only one to notice. I've also noticed that Harry and Ron don't seem to have a free period when Hermione has Ancient Runes (she has Arithmancy at the same time they have Divination).
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Dr Filibuster - Feb 25, 2004 4:08 pm (#59 of 298)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
It's JKR's world, but I really do think that OWLs and NEWTs heavily reflect her own exam experiences of the 1980's, ie the English & Welsh O levels and A levels.
As such, the numbers of passes Czarina describes in post 56 are spot on.
Having said that, only the top students took O levels and even then there were plenty of fails. Maybe Rowling doesn't introduce a lower exam because she didn't want to bog down her novels?
With O levels there were no assignments, SATs or continual assesments, everything was based on the exam. For example, you may have been the top of your class in French for the past 5 years but the day of your exam you are feeling unwell, perform badly and fail.
UK muggles can leave school at 16 (or 15 if your birthday is in the summer like my brother or JKR), so nothing is compulsary anymore. If you wish to stay in Further Education and do A levels, they are more intense and detailed. You have more classes for each subject. If Harry takes 5 NEWTs he may not have any free periods.
I assumed that the twins were taking DADA NEWT. I imagine that subject would appeal to them, especially after Lupin's teaching during their 5th year. I shall go back and check GoF and OoP for any other subjects they mentioned.
I don't think the Lexicon has a list of known NEWT subjects for characters, or a summary of exam passes. I am sure this will be added after Book 6.
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alexa - Feb 25, 2004 5:44 pm (#60 of 298)
Hi Loopy and Luanee,
Going back to your post on separate OWLs for Theory and practical,we can look at the individual subjects as below:
Subjects (theory and practical) 1) Charms 2) Transfiguration 3) DADA 4) Potions 5) Astronomy
Subjects (theory only) 1) History of Magic 2) Ancient Runes 3) Arithmancy 4) Muggle Studies (Assuming that they do not have practical papers for that three elective subjects)
Subjects (practical only) 1) Herbology 2) CoMC 3) Divination (I am not too sure about if they had theory papers for these subjects, but it was not mentioned in OoP)
We do not know Percy took which elective subjects, but assuming he took the same subjects as Harry, he might be able to acheive 12 OWLS without using the time-turner.
Or we could simply assume that Percy did use the time-turner. After all, in McGonagall's eyes, Percy was a good student and could be trust to use a time-turner too. McGonagall could have simply write to MOM to request for a time-turner for Percy, as what she has done for Hermione.
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Luanee - Feb 26, 2004 12:11 am (#61 of 298)
Hi Alexa, if Percy took the same subjects as Harry, and going by your counting as above, he would have got 14 OWLs in all, as I do not expect Percy to score below an 'A' for any of his subjects, whether theory or practical.
Charms(2), Transfiguration(2), DADA(2), Potions(2), Astronomy(2), History of Magic(1), Herbology(1), CoMC(1), Divination(1)
If Percy really did used the time-turner, he must be very good, as Hermione was having really a hard time coping with all her subjects in her 3rd year.
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Czarina - Feb 26, 2004 9:43 am (#62 of 298)
Even if Percy is an excellent student, he might have indeed failed two OWLs. Imagine studying for all those classes!
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Mad Madame Mim - Feb 26, 2004 10:12 am (#63 of 298)
"Don't tell me you've never heard of the marvellous Madame Mim?"
Percy could have failed History of Magic and Divinations. Its a thought.
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Anna L. Black - Feb 26, 2004 1:45 pm (#64 of 298)
Percy? Failing History of Magic? Never - it was probably one of his favorites. OK, so I'm exaggerating a little
But still, I don't think it's likely for him to fail HoM - that subject only requires memorizing a lot of boring stuff - sounds like Percy, doesn't it?
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alexa - Feb 26, 2004 5:46 pm (#65 of 298)
Luanee, my predictions for Harry's OWLs grades:-
DADA,CoMC,Charms: 'O' Transfiguration,Herbology,:'E' Potions,Astronomy:'A' History of Magic,Divination:'P'
I know your thread doesn't include Hermione's grades, but I will like to predict hers too.
CoMC, Charms, Transfiguration, Herbology, Potions, Arithmancy, History of Magic: 'O' Astronomy, Ancient Runes, DADA: 'E'
I know Hermione is very good in DADA, but since Harry is the leader of DA, I hope his DADA's grade is better than Hermione.
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Bash - Feb 26, 2004 11:44 pm (#66 of 298)
I would expect Harry to get a bonus point above O grade and the rest of the fifth year recruits to DA to get O in DADA. It is likely that Hermione will only get an E in Ancient Runes though; something for her to stew over!
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Acceber - Mar 6, 2004 9:16 am (#67 of 298)
Ruler of Omeletteheads
Like Bash, I really hope all fifth year DA members get an O in DADA. It just seams not like JKR not to give it to them after she plainly said Harry wished for it.
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Hogs Head - Mar 6, 2004 4:17 pm (#68 of 298)
Premium Pork But Not Premium HP Member Anymore - Wah!
Somehow Harry's grades will be good enough to let him move forward on the path toward being an Auror. Even if one mark or another is too low, there will be some avenue around that obstacle. This could indeed be a good subplot for Book 6.
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Detail Seeker - Mar 8, 2004 3:12 pm (#69 of 298)
Quod tempus non sanat, sanat ferrum,... so prepare
I would, in fact, feel a little bit cheated, if Harry came into NEWT potions by bargaining behind the curtains. It would back up Snape´s view of Harry getting special rules on everything. Not a good basis for intensive work, Snape always taunting Harry: "You are only here, because..." He should and will find better ways of taunting Harry and making him study harder. For he will need to be good.
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 9, 2004 3:09 pm (#70 of 298)
I agree with Detail Seeker. I almost look at Harry's O in potions as a given as much as (well, almost) Harry being acquitted in his hearing in OoP. It seems to me that Rowling has certainly set the stage for Harry and even Neville to do surprisingly well since they didn't have Snape discouraging them. Plus, Harry just has to remain in potions because the tension brewing between Harry and Snape is too interesting and intense not to be explored further.
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firebird - Mar 10, 2004 7:23 am (#71 of 298)
I don't know, it didn't seem Harry was very confident during his exam. I can't remember exactly what he said, but it doesn't seem that just because Snape is not there that Harry would get an O. I mean, if he was so distracted in class with Snape, it doesn't seem as if he would have had the brainpower to memorise all those difficult Potion recipes. Classwork would certainly have an impact on his exam grades... I think it's more plausible that Draco Malfoy gets a low grade or that no-one gets above an E (or A even), and so Snape himself bends the rules to allow people with E's into his NEWT class. And I agree, Detail Seeker, DD can't keep favouring Harry and treating him specially in everything, esp. academics.
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 10, 2004 7:40 am (#72 of 298)
That is an interesting twist I hadn't thought of. If everyone does horribly, it would reflect on the potions professor to a great extent.
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Mad Madame Mim - Mar 10, 2004 11:52 am (#73 of 298)
"Don't tell me you've never heard of the marvellous Madame Mim?"
Snape is not the one grading them is how I understand it. Though I'm from the States, I see OWLS similar to our Basic Skills test done at certain grade levels. From past experience some teachers merely based their curriculum on perpareing the students for the tests while a few others prepared students to exceeded all requirements that the test had. Those that taught to exceeded rather than meet, had more difficult classes with higher expectations. Perhaps Snape's examines and grading methods are demanding then the OWLS.
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 10, 2004 12:02 pm (#74 of 298)
"Anyone can cook"
I suspect Harry will get an O in Potions. It just creates too many complications if he doesn't.
One: Whenever Dumbledore has intervened with Snape on Harry's behalf, it has always been to right a wrong, or to make an executive decision on a matter that can be argued both ways. This is not the case here. Snape has been absolutely adament about only O-OWLS being allowed into his NEWT class. It is a long standing rule. If Dumbldeore would to interfer here, it would be a clear show of favortism towards Harry against Snape.
There is one way around this, however. If Snape were to bend the rules for Malfoy, Dumbledore would be justified in insisting he bend the rules for Harry. But that is the only case I can think of where the ethics involved would allow it.
Two: If Harry "cheated" on getting into NEWT-level Potions, that reputation would follow him. How would it affect his goal of becoming an Auror?
Three: If Snape was forced to accept Harry against his established rules, he would have very valid reasons to deeply resent it. Dumbledore simply cannot afford a deeply resetful Snape. The man has turned his coat before. He could do it again.
Four: Snape could and would do all sorts of things to sabotage Harry in his NEWT class.
No, Harry has to get in on his own. The only exception is if Snape bends the rules himself.
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Tomoé - Mar 10, 2004 12:26 pm (#75 of 298)
Back in business
There could be an other way to allow Harry to rightfully get NEWT Potion even if he didn't get O. Maybe the House Head do a exchange of favor each year, asking one of their colleague to take a student of their House that shouldn't be allow to take a subject.
We know Hannah Abbott did badly in her Practical Transfiguration (Sprout asking a favor to MacGonagall), Harry didn't feel like he did well in both Practical and Theory of Potion (MacGonagall asking a favor to Snape) and Malfoy didn't do well in his Pratical Charms (Snape asking a favor to Flitwick). All we need is a Ravenclaw who did bad in Herbology and the circle is full.
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 10, 2004 1:48 pm (#76 of 298)
Madame Mim, I don't think Snape normally grades above or at OWL standard. In fact, in he made it a point in OoP to point out to the class that he was grading their first assignment to OWL standards to give them some idea what to expect. Hermione was OK with her E since it wasn't too bad ("Not if he's grading to O.W.L. standards" or something like that), Ron wasn't fussed about his "good healthy P," but Harry resolved to work harder since he got a D.
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 10, 2004 3:42 pm (#77 of 298)
"Anyone can cook"
I am sorry, Tomoé, but I cannot see that happening in this case. What about the personalities of the people involved. Both McGonagall and Snape are known for being extremely strict. They both set high standards, and they both insist that students meet them. They both have too much integrity.
Flitwick, Sprout, and the others are likely a lot more flexible. I don't know. But I simply cannot imagine Snape and McGonagall trading placements like that. It would go sorely against their grain. That would also be why Snape would highly resent Dumbledore forcing him to take Harry in NEWT Potions.
No. Harry has to get an 'O' on his Potions OWL. There are no two ways about it.
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Tomoé - Mar 10, 2004 4:35 pm (#78 of 298)
Back in business
Of course Harry would need at least an E for that to work, and the four students will have to need the subject to get the career they want. Deals like that take place in the muggle world, mostly with Headmasters, I admit, but I don't see why it couldn't take place in Wizarding World all the same.
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Emily - Mar 16, 2004 6:54 pm (#79 of 298)
I was thinking (a rare occurance(sp?)), supposing Snape doesn't take Harry because he doesn't get an O, and DD can't force it on him for the above reasons, and he doesn't bend the rule for Malfoy, so he doesn't have to take Harry either. What happens? Do you think McG was serious (almost typed Sirius)about saying she would coach Harrry nightly if need be? Or does he have to drop his career goal all together. I seriously (again, almost Siriusly - ugh!) doubt it. Or maybe DD will again attempt to put Harry in a private class with Snape, except this time it is really remedial potions. I doubt this too.
I'ts certainly easiest if JKR gives him an O, but sometimes it seems like JKR does the oppposite of what's easy on purpose. (Wow... just thought of DD's quote while I was typing that - 'If you have a choice between doing what is right and what is easy, remember Cedric Diggory, or something like that... Not that it's applicable)
Edit: This post doesn't seem to have made any sense, so if you know what I mean, please tell me!
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S.E. Jones - Mar 16, 2004 8:08 pm (#80 of 298)
Let it snow!
I don't know if this has been mentioned as yet, but what does everyone think of the old ideas some of us once had that Snape would have to lower his standards and allow Draco in (because he didn't get an O -- assumption, of course) and McGonagall will remind him that he has to let in all the other kids applying to his class with the same grade as Draco (which will include Harry); or that Snape and McGonagall will strike a deal where they each allow the other's student into one of their NEWT level courses, even though they don't qualify.... I rather liked the first idea....
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Madame Librarian - Mar 16, 2004 9:27 pm (#81 of 298)
I like the idea that Harry will have to go to summer school to do remedial potions, and maybe, guess who has to join him? Ta dah...Ferret Boy! Whoa, not a pretty thought is it?
Ciao. Barb
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Tomoé - Mar 17, 2004 7:07 am (#82 of 298)
Back in business
Intensive Remedial Potions in summer, to take the test again on August, that sounds more fair that the other options (except for Harry scoring an O, of course).
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 17, 2004 7:29 am (#83 of 298)
Summer school would be a possible explanation as to why Book 6 will be his shortest stay on Privet Drive ever as JKR has stated it will be. I mean her statement could be a red herring of sorts in that maybe Harry just gets to go to the Burrow earlier than he has in the past, but somehow I doubt it.
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firebird - Mar 19, 2004 1:13 pm (#84 of 298)
S.E.Jones: I've always thought that was a good idea, and I think that such a situation would be relatively easy to fit into the next book. It doesn't take much explaining, and it's not so out of character for Snape. But still, I'm wondering if Snape would keep favouring Malfoy (and bending the rules for him) after all that's happened, and if so, what his reasons could possibly be! I suppose he could do it just to keep an eye on him. Or maybe he really does like Malfoy - maybe he IS in fact a good potions student, except for the fact that he just didn't get good marks in his OWLs this year (because of his Inquisitorial Squad duty maybe).
Or how about Snape just WANTS to teach NEWT level potions ( -for the challenge, maybe? I mean, he must really detest teaching first-year potions since it is so far below his intellectual level, or perhaps he needs the teaching hours for keeping a decent salary? or any number of reasons- ) and NONE of the incompetent fifth-years gets above an E! Except maybe Hermione. But he can't very well teach a class with only one student. So he decides to take in all students with an E or above...?
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 19, 2004 1:36 pm (#85 of 298)
firebird, I think Snape will have to keep pretending (if he is indeed pretending) to like and favor Draco. Whatever conflicts there may be in his mind, he must keep up appearances and he cannot let Draco go complaining to Lucius that Snape is being mean to him.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 19, 2004 3:51 pm (#86 of 298)
Let it snow!
Part of that theory was also that, if Draco got an O and Crabbe and Goyle returned for their sixth year, he may change the rule for one of them instead. Also, he would probably still be acting as a double agent and thus would need to keep us appearances with those families....
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Luanee - Apr 11, 2004 10:05 pm (#87 of 298)
Here is a summary of our predictions:
DADA – O for sure
Transfiguration – Most votes: E ; 2nd most: O ; 3rd most: A
Charms – Most: E ; 2nd: O
CoMC – Most: O ; 2nd: E
Herbology – Most: E ; 2nd: A
Astronomy – Most: A ; 2nd: P
Potions – Most: E ; 2nd: A ; 3rd: O
HoM – Most: P ; 2nd: D ; 3rd: A ; 4th: T
Divination – Most: P ; 2nd: A and D
I wonder how right we are?
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Lagniappe - Apr 12, 2004 1:42 pm (#88 of 298)
I just never got the impression that Harry was an 'O' level Potions student, and I'll be very surprised if he somehow pulls one off. But I don't think that Snape will be forced to take him into his NEWT class - I just don't see JKR creating that sort of scenario (too many negative implications). I like the ideas that people have mentioned regarding no one but Hermione scoring an 'O' so either students will have to go to summer school or Snape will have to relax his standards.
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dobbyiscool - Apr 12, 2004 2:25 pm (#89 of 298)
Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
Or, only Slythrins will get an 'O', so he'll get in major trouble for overly favoring his own students. I do think that Snape will have Harry in his NEWT level class, only because other wise Snape isn't around as much. Outside of DADA class, once Harry gets a teacher, they haven't left the series (correct me if I am incorrect there). Snape is an important charactor, so I doubt Harry gets out of that class so easy.
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MTW - Apr 12, 2004 6:37 pm (#90 of 298)
I think the Snape requirement, for Newt classes, would be bent more easily if only one or two people get an O, Hermione being one of the two . Allowing both Draco and Harry into the class.
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Loopy Lupin - Apr 13, 2004 5:49 am (#91 of 298)
I don't think Harry's an O level Potions student, but something's got to give here. We know Harry wants to be an Auror and it's doubtful, I think, that JKR will foreclose him from pursuing that so soon. So my thought was that he would pull an O on the OWL. I wouldn't be surprised if several students did. Snape, of course, would try to take credit, but all the O students would know that they did well only because, for once, they didn't have Snape's sneering face standing over them.
(Just an aside, it is kind of brutal that everyone's future is being decided by a test they take at age 15. Is this anything close to the real world in Britain?)
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Catherine - Apr 13, 2004 6:50 am (#92 of 298)
Canon Seeker
I can't imagine that Harry is truly an O level Potions student, but we know from Umbridge's observation that the class is "advanced for their level." Snape has given them really difficult potions to do, especially fifth year, so the O.W.L. test may not have been that hard for them. Snape's absence from the test may also have helped, as did Harry's detailed answer about Polyjuice Potion.
I would hate to see Ron's and Harry's Auror dreams come crashing down because they didn't get an O.
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Madame Librarian - Apr 13, 2004 9:08 am (#93 of 298)
What if for some bizarre reason Snape is not the Potions Master next term?! This isn't meant to take over the topic of this thread, but is suggested as a way Harry could be allowed into the NEWT-level class. The new teacher's standards are a bit lower, or special petitions offered by DD and/or Minerva get Harry a place in the class.
Ciao. Barb
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Mad Madame Mim - Apr 13, 2004 9:43 am (#94 of 298)
"Don't tell me you've never heard of the marvellous Madame Mim?"
So if Snape is not teaching potions, then what would he be teaching if he is still at Hogwarts?
DADA?
Actually it would make sense. With war ready to happen at any minute, the students including Harry need someone with experience in the dark arts to teach them. It would be a miserable class, but more than a passing grade is at stake.
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Loopy Lupin - Apr 13, 2004 9:56 am (#95 of 298)
Mmm. Interesting thought Mad Madam. We all wonder, of course, why DD keeps Snape from the job he would like. I always assumed that it was sort of like the same reason it wouldn't be a good idea for a recovering alcoholic to work as a bartender, too much temptation. But maybe DD's been saving him for the job until the right time.
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Vern Afanofhp - Apr 13, 2004 9:54 pm (#96 of 298)
A thought why, DD is keeping Snape a potions master-- It maybe is because--It is, simpler to replace a DADA teacher--than a Potions Master.. My thought --
I still think Harry Is going to get an O.....
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Tomoé - Apr 14, 2004 12:27 am (#97 of 298)
Back in business
Why DD keeps Snape away from the DADA teacher post? JKR already answer that question.
Royal Albert Hall, June 2003:
Jackson: Professor Snape has always wanted to be Defence Against Dark Arts teacher. In book 5 he still hasn’t got the job. Why does Professor Dumbedore not allow him to be Defence Against The Dark Arts teacher?
JK Rowling: That is an excellent question and the reason is that I have to be careful what I say here. To answer it fully would give a lot away about the remaining two books. When Professor Dumbledore took Professor Snape onto the staff and Professor Snape said “I’d like to be Professor of Defence Against the Dark Arts please” and Professor Dumbledore felt it might bring out the worst in Snape so said “I think we’ll get you to teach Potions and see how you get along there”.
So, does DD think it's safe to give Snape the DADA teacher post or will that wait for book seven?
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Liz Mann - May 8, 2004 3:52 pm (#98 of 298)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I haven't read all this thread but my prediction is that Harry will get an O in Potions. McGonagall said that Snape doesn't let anyone in his N.E.W.T class unless they got that. And if Harry doesn't do Potions, he won't become an Auror.
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Raistlin - May 11, 2004 2:26 pm (#99 of 298)
I think Harry will get O's in every sublect except divination, astronomy, and history of magic. Harry has a history of underestimating himself. Until he was forced to see it, he did not believe he really did accomplished much on his own at the meeting to establish the DA. I think that the mistakes Harry made during his OWLs were not all that great. I would equate the OWL grading scale to the A,B,C,D,F (from my own schooling) grading scale where(of course we are on grade short): O=A=90% or better E=B=80% or better A=C=70% or better P=D=60% or better D=F=50% or better T=?=Less than 50%
Obviously, he will get an O in DADA. I think he steps up to the plate in Trans and did very well, with the exception of the one question he missed, O. In Charms he only switched around two spells and quickly caught it, O In Herbology he only received on small bite, hardly a big mistake, O In Astronomy, he says he thought he did okay on the written, missed a good bit on the practical what with the stunning on MCG and all, I think he would do well enough on the written for an A In Divination, who really knows what the grading is like, he could have any grade as high as an A, but probably not higher. In History of Magic, Harry never really paid much attention, but may have gotten enough for an A. In Care of Magical Creatures, Harry should do very well, considering his close relationship to Hagrid and his desire to excel, O. Finally, in Potions, Harry has never really been all that bad in this class IMO, he is just often harrangued by Snape or distracted by other events. I think that with the lack of Snape and his wanting to do well, he will get an O.
Of course, I am extremely Harry biased, but I think that Harry is much more critical of hisself than others are. Also, he really got focused on his mistakes, and at least in my experience, that tends to only make you think you did worse than you actually did.
Also, OWL's may be graded to a completely different standard, like O's being 95% or something. This is just my 2 knuts. Thanks for reading this huge post.
Raistlin
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ex-FAHgeek - May 18, 2004 9:45 pm (#100 of 298)
Thanks for the quote, Tomoe. I think there's one other thing about which we need to think: Severus Snape is one of the best potion makers in the British Isles. Remember the wolfsbane potion? Dumbledore may have been telling Snape to make the potion for Lupin, but I think Lupin is being very honest when he mentions how lucky he is that Snape is one of the few people capable of making it. Additionally, I've always had the feeling that Snape brewed those Veritaserums himself, and that certainly can't be easy. Thus, he's incredibly valuable in the position of Potions Master.
As for Harry's grades, I think he'll do well overall, but I don't think he'll have more than, say, two O's.
DADA - O, of course.
Transfiguration - E. He and McGonnegal were working to bring him up from an A, so I think this should well-represent their goals for his improvement. I think he has potential for O on his NEWTs, but I don't think he's there yet. He does need the E to get into McGonnegal's class anyway.
Potions - A or an E. He'll do much better without Snape, Malfoy, etc. trashing his projects, but Harry hates Potions. It wasn't until his career meeting that he had any desire to excel - up until that point, he was just trying to pass until he could drop the subject. I don't think he'll be able to recover from four-and-a-half years of hating the class so easily. While he supposedly needs the O, I think JKR will find another way to get Harry into class with Snape - either through the lowered standard suggestion, or continued Occulmency lessons.
Charms - E, although I wouldn't be completely taken by surprise if he got an O. He was performing A to E and was motivated to do better after learning he needed them.
Herbology - A to E. Harry doesn't care as much about this test as some of the others and it's never been portrayed as a subject he worries/enjoys too much.
Care of Magical Creatures - A or E, although this is one in which we could potentially be surprised by an O. I'm mixed about it. Harry really wants to do well so Hagrid gets some good review, and he thinks it went alright... but the fact of the matter is that Hagrid wasn't the greatest teacher.
Divination - Harry will be flunking out of this one...
Astronomy - At best, an A. We don't know how much that star chart will count, and that's not taking into account the various random mistakes on the other part of the test.
History of Magic - P or A. I'll lean toward A.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
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Predictions for Harry’s OWLs grades (Post 101 to 150)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 2:30 am
Laurelin - May 19, 2004 10:21 am (#101 of 298)
I skimmed through most of this thread and of course I'll be reapeating mostly the same grades as others did before me, but I will differ in the Potions mark. Snape is a very strict teacher, he asks a lot of his students and probably marks them accordingly, but in the OWL-exam it will not be he who marks the exams, so I see a chance for Harry to get an E or even the needed O. Harry definitely has a tendency to underestimate his abilities.
DADA: O Transfiguration: E Potions: E-O (wouldn't an O be hilarious? I'd love to see Snape's face, and since it won't be he who marks the exam, I really believe it possible!) Charms: E Herbology: A-E Care of Magical Creatures: E Divination: D Astronomy: A History of Magic: D(or even worse, if indeed T does exist, he really didn't get much of that test done).
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ex-FAHgeek - May 21, 2004 1:22 pm (#102 of 298)
I just realized while reading the Hermione Granger thread one grade that I completely forgot would probably not get the O as expected: Astronomy. However, assuming that she works quickly and accurately, she may still have been able to pull an E. Alas, a horrible stain on her otherwise perfect contingent of O's...
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Loopy Lupin - May 25, 2004 6:35 am (#103 of 298)
Perhaps, but I wouldn't be surprised if by the time Umbridge and the Auror's came for Hagrid, Hermione was already done and just double checking for accuracy.
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Catherine - May 25, 2004 7:02 am (#104 of 298)
Canon Seeker
I've been wondering about the Astronomy O.W.L. Not exactly ideal testing situation there, what with two teachers being attacked by aurors in front of their students. I keep hoping that they'll "curve" that grade or toss it altogether! Although I guess that would violate JKR's "there are tough lessons in life" theme.
I've also wondered how, if everyone knows that true Seers are rare, they grade the Divination O.W.L. Seems to me that not seeing anything would be about the expection--how to get below an Acceptable? Maybe Harry's prediction that Marchbanks should have died 'the previous Tuesday" will prove to be the kind of prediction that can earn one a Poor. Or, maybe Marchbanks is so old that she really should have died the previous Tuesday! I just can't imagine someone grading that exam in a serious way!
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ex-FAHgeek - May 25, 2004 9:56 am (#105 of 298)
---quote--- I've also wondered how, if everyone knows that true Seers are rare, they grade the Divination O.W.L. Seems to me that not seeing anything would be about the expection--how to get below an Acceptable? Maybe Harry's prediction that Marchbanks should have died 'the previous Tuesday" will prove to be the kind of prediction that can earn one a Poor. Or, maybe Marchbanks is so old that she really should have died the previous Tuesday! I just can't imagine someone grading that exam in a serious way! ---end quote---
My guess would be that even though true Seers are rare, they are being graded on fortune-telling techniques. McGonnegal and Firenze don't take it seriously, but other characters ranging from Trelawny to Lavender and Parvati to Percy all seem to do so. They're not expecting the students to go into a trance and come up with a prophecy like Cassandra, but they do expect them to see something in the crystal ball besides their own reflections.
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S.E. Jones - May 25, 2004 7:22 pm (#106 of 298)
Let it snow!
Question: Do teachers in the UK ever grade on a curve? (There are different systems of figuring a curve.) That way the Astronomy and Divination grades may be better than they thought.
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Loopy Lupin - May 26, 2004 6:35 am (#107 of 298)
ex-FAHgeek, that must be the way divination is graded. It would seem extremely unfair to grade someone on a rare gift which, by definition, most would not have.
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ex-FAHgeek - May 26, 2004 12:11 pm (#108 of 298)
---quote--- McGonnegal and Firenze don't take it seriously... ---end quote---
Why do I keep mispelling McGonagall? I think I do that in almost every single post I make. Grrr...
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PIJ - Jun 2, 2004 4:25 am (#109 of 298)
How in the grading system can a student get an E unless the assessors are versed in the students current abilities (i.e. end of year school reports).
The examining wizards must be versed in what each student is capable of prior to the exam so that the papers and practicals can be set to an average level if this is not the case then each student must have their own paper (not likely from the books quoting conversations about the papers). Therefore in order to estimate grades we need to consider the spread of fifth years from all the books and thier talents then apply the characters back to this baseline in order to estimate their grades.
This would then mean that for divination for instance the baseline would be so low that the expected grade across the year would be poor. Any thing actually predicted or the attempt to work something out would then mean a higher grade. Therefore Ron gets a P as he only saw the reflection of the examiner. Harry gets an A as he attempted to work out the date that Prof. Marchbanks dies.
Hope this makes sense. I know in the UK from O level to Post Graduate you will always gain marks for your work outs even if the end answer is incorrect.
Sorry I seem to have rambled a little through this.
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PIJ - Jun 2, 2004 7:09 am (#110 of 298)
On the subject of Practical and Written grades.
If it is agreed that the OWLs basis is the British system there is nothing to stop there being two grades. In English GCSE/O Level there are three grades - Literature, Language and Oral
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Dumbledore - Jun 3, 2004 2:14 pm (#111 of 298)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
PIJ, perhaps the examiners receive a sort of report from each professor which explains the basic skills that each student should have to be considered at Ordinary Wizarding Level, and that would be considered the "A" grade. If the student does better than that standard average, then he would receive the Exceeds Expectations. If the grades were based upon each student's individual performance that year in the subject, then Neville, who did horribly in Potions, could possibly scrape an E, because since he was in a relaxed atmosphere he would probably do much better than usual in class. It just wouldn't make sense for teachers to do it that way because it would give biased exam results, because the students would only be trying to beat their own personal standards, as opposed to the standards that they should be up to by OWL level.
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TGF - Jun 7, 2004 5:59 am (#112 of 298)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
My predictions:
Okay, Defense Against the Dark Arts will be an O, no problem. Most likely he got even better than Hermione on this.
Charms I think will be an E, if not an O... He didn't seem to have much trouble with his written exam, and only mentions one mistake on the practical. Sounds good to me.
Herbology, I think will be an A or a low E. It doesn't really matter how Harry does in that anyhow.
Care of Magical Creatures... Harry didn't seem to have had much trouble there, he gave Hagrid a thumbs-up and all... I would say E or O.
Transfiguration he seemed to do pretty decently on. I think he can scrap the 'E' that he needs for his Auror requirements.
Potions? Eeeee, this is difficult. It's said that Harry found the written exam hard and it said after the practical that he had at least not failed. Snape wasn't there, so he was more relaxed than usual, but thing is he needs an O to pursue his dream of being an Auror... I don't know if he got an O or not in that... I would guess more likely to be an A or an E... I wonder if they'll be some fuss over that mark... Maybe Mcgonagall will stick her neck out for him... Or maybe Harry will surprise himself.
Divination a nice healthy 'T' or 'P'... And he'll be all the better for it.
Astronomy he probably didn't do well in. He only finished 2/3s of his chart. That's a P or an A most likely.
History of Magic I would guess he failed too, considering he passed out shortly into it. No surprises there.
So its two OWLs per subject, one for practical and one for written? That makes a lot more sense, as there's no other way Percy could rack in twelve OWLs. Interesting... So if Snape requires an 'O' to get into Potions, and Harry gets an E on his written and an O on his practical, does Harry get in? Is he expected to get an O in both, only one, or would the average (EO, I guess...) simply not be enough to get him in?
Very confusing system.
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The Grey Lady - Jun 15, 2004 6:11 pm (#113 of 298)
Sup, Figgy?
Can someone clear this up for me?:
Does Harry -absolutely- need his Newt in Potions, or just knowledge of the subject (for the Ministry to hire him)? I only remember McGonagall saying potions will be usefull, or something to that effect, then stating how many Owls he needed...
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Tomoé - Jun 15, 2004 7:43 pm (#114 of 298)
Back in business
He need five Exceed Expectation NEWTs, any NEWTs, it could be Divination, History of Magic, Astronomy, Muggle Studies and care of Magical Creature (though I sure he'll have more chance to get the job if he takes less random subject ^_^ ).
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Luanee - Jun 18, 2004 12:35 am (#115 of 298)
This was what McGonagall said during Harry's career advice:
'I would also advise Transfiguration, because Aurors frequently need to Transfigure or Untransfigure in their work. And I ought to tell you now, Potter, that I do not accept students into my NEWT classes unless they have achieved "Exceeds Expectations" or higher at Ordinary Wizarding Level. I'd say you're averaging "Acceptable" at the moment, so you'll need to put in some good hard work before the exams to stand a chance of continuing. Then you ought to do Charms, always useful, and Potions. Yes, Potter, Potions,' she added, with the merest flicker of a smile. 'Poisons and antidotes are essential study for Aurors. And I must tell you that Professor Snape absolutely refuses to take students who get anything other than "Outstanding" in their OWLs, so — '
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S.E. Jones - Jun 18, 2004 12:48 am (#116 of 298)
Let it snow!
So he needs a minimum of five NEWTs, right? Well, Transfiguration, Charms, and Potions will be three of them, it would seem.... DADA, of course (duh!).... So that leaves one class open.... Divination or Care of Magical Creatures? He definately did well enough of his CMC OWL to get into next year's class (as if Hagrid would say no!)... Does anyone think, by sheer luck, the person who gave him his Divination test really will meet a soggy brown stranger or whatever he saw in the cup?
EDIT: No-one ever answered my question before so I'll ask it again: Does anyone know if the UK uses a grading curve when grading tests that are the Muggle equivalent of OWLs, or are they normalized?
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librarian314 - Jun 19, 2004 4:39 am (#117 of 298)
Hey all!
We all know that Harry and Neville aren't particularly great at Potions and Hermione is, through what Harry tells us in the books.
Do we ever find out what their grades actually are (not OWLs but regular end of term time grades, are they passing, failing)?
I've taken some classes where I though I was doing poorly (barely scraping a C, yes I'm a recovering Hermione ;-) ) and come report card time, found out I was doing better than I had thought.
Could the kids actually doing better in Potions than we think? Is Snape just a really hard teacher that seems impossible to please, just to get the kids to learn the subject and the kids end up being really well prepared for the OWLs because of it?
Take care!
*michelle the librarian**
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Dr Filibuster - Jun 19, 2004 5:11 pm (#118 of 298)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
Librarian314...we don't have US grade sytems in the UK. There are SATs now, but I think they are more an indication of how well the teachers/schools are doing and a way to try and predict somebody's potential qualifications. Some project based work and assesments do count towards GCSEs (modern OWLs) these days, but this is after JKR's time.
The Hogwarts kids take end of year exams, but I don't think that would count towards one's final OWL result. If it's anything like the O levels JKR (and I) took then the performance during the actual exam is everything. Which was an absolute misery for any swots with hayfever.
In reply to Sarah's question, I seem to remember our teachers telling us (in the early 1980's) that our results were marked on a percentile basis...eg, top 10% got an A, next 5% got a B, and so on. This was not the case in earlier decades. The grades were not evenly spread (if you got a B or a D you were unlucky because you'd just missed out on an A or C...a D was a fail). I think there was a set pass level to ensure standards were met but in practise this method raised levels of the highest grades. OK now I'm getting bogged down with details and completely bored myself. Wake up!
I tried to look up a link for proof/further information but was unsuccessful. Probably because the exam system changed before the internet took off, and partly because it's so boring nobody cares apart from us HP obsessives. Knowing if papers are marked on a percentile basis could help predict Astronomy and Divination results. But knowing Rowling's lack of enthusiasm for maths I think she will keep things simple.
Hmm, unless she is amused by telling us in passing that a series of hideously complicated grading systems gave everyone a pass in Divination apart from Lavender and Parvati.
Ok, I'm off to post my theory about Neville's gran and the lovely professor Tofty (he's so sweet) on the 'ship thread.
Edit: Librarian314...Minerva tells Harry how well he's averaged in DADA and Charms during the Careers advice chapter in OoP.
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TGF - Jun 19, 2004 5:26 pm (#119 of 298)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Do regular class marks even count for anything? Particularly regular 5th year class marks... It seemed to be implied that the OWL exams counted for basically everything, which is distinctly unfair. Harry is screwed in History of Magic because he messed up his OWL. That's five years of classes gone to waste since he messed up one exam. How brutal.
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S.E. Jones - Jun 19, 2004 10:31 pm (#120 of 298)
Let it snow!
Well, the regular grades count as far as having to repeat a grade as so when you take your OWL or NEWT....
From what I can tell, it seems that the Trio are all passing their subjects, even if only barely.....
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Bash - Jun 20, 2004 3:25 am (#121 of 298)
SE Jones, yes, at A2 level there was a grading curve used - that's how I got 100%
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Dr Filibuster - Jun 20, 2004 5:56 am (#122 of 298)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
TGF, when I was a 5th year the brainiest girl in the school had an emergency appendix op during exam fortnight.
She had been a brilliant student since the age of 4. An examiner sat at her bedside in hospital for a few exams. She ended up with about 3 O Levels. Under the circumstances our school allowed her to start her chosen A levels (NEWTs) in the September.
Perhaps Prof Sinistra and Albus-give-people-a-2nd-chance-Dumbledore will be lenient and allow Astronomy students into the NEWT classes if they re-sit (and pass) their OWLs next year?
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azi - Jun 22, 2004 12:26 pm (#123 of 298)
Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
The grading curve in England depends on how well the candidates do so you expect that to get grade A you need 80%, 70% for a B and so on. However if there is a particuarly hard paper which is done badly overall then it can be lowered to, for example, 66% for an A in one Geog practise paper I took. On my GCSE higher maths paper you only needed about 25% to get a C, some years it is even lower. I'm glad to say I managed that C.
I agree with Sue on '2nd chance teachers'. I can't see Prof. Sprout refusing anyone because they did badly in their exams, nor in fact Flitwick.
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Padfoot - Jun 23, 2004 3:22 pm (#124 of 298)
I have a question that deal with grades, but not Harry's grades. At the end of CoS, DD cancels all school tests. Does that include OWLS and NEWTS? How do those students graduate and/or move on to the NEWT classes? I guess that's two questions, sorry.
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Scarlet Seer - Jun 23, 2004 8:58 pm (#125 of 298)
I think Harry may have some talent as a seer; remember, he accurately predicted Buckbeak's escape and read Ron's cup accurately. If Dumbledore knows and if it's important that Harry develop his talent with guidance, Dumbledore may curve Harry's Divination grade to make sure he continues. Just a vagrant thought...
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TGF - Jun 24, 2004 9:48 am (#126 of 298)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Padfoot: I think they would've had to have gone on... I believe OWLs occur slightly before normal exams to begin with, and I hardly think that Dumbledore would consider it a 'special school treat' to ruin the futures of two years worth of Hogwarts students.
The only exams that count for anything in the long run are the OWLs and the NEWTs (you appear to only need to just pass), so it probably wasn't a big deal for Dumbledore to cancel the exams of year 1-4 and 6. Though I imagine that would've sucked for people who were doing poorly and wanted to use the exams to pull up their marks.
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Padfoot - Jun 24, 2004 2:24 pm (#127 of 298)
That's sort of what I figured. But since it was not explained, I just wondered. Since it didn't affect Harry's future, he did not notice.
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S.E. Jones - Jun 24, 2004 7:13 pm (#128 of 298)
Let it snow!
Scarlet Seer: I think Harry may have some talent as a seer; remember, he accurately predicted Buckbeak's escape and read Ron's cup accurately.
How did he read Ron's cup accurately? How did Ron suffer but be happy about it? I can see how that would work for Harry (though that's a movie discussion) but Ron?
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ex-FAHgeek - Jul 4, 2004 9:57 am (#129 of 298)
---quote--- Do regular class marks even count for anything? Particularly regular 5th year class marks... It seemed to be implied that the OWL exams counted for basically everything, which is distinctly unfair. Harry is screwed in History of Magic because he messed up his OWL. That's five years of classes gone to waste since he messed up one exam. How brutal. ---end of quote---
Well, the first four years at least count as far as the fact that one needs to pass his or her classes simply to get to the point of taking OWLs. Likewise, the students still have to pass their final exams after the OWLS - thus, one could have an excellent set of OWLs and theoretically still flunk out of Hogwarts by doing something stupid like not showing up for the finals ("The OWLs are what matters, so I don't need to go to Exam X...") Conversely, a student could do poorly in the OWL and still pass the regular final, thus completing school requirements, even if he or she doesn't get to continue with the subject (for example, a lot of kids may flunk their Astronomy OWL, but still finish their 5th year of Astronomy on the final.)
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Dumbledore - Jul 4, 2004 10:44 am (#130 of 298)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
So hypothetically, if you got an O on the astronomy OWL, but flunked the asronomy final, would you still be able to be in the NEWT class?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 4, 2004 2:02 pm (#131 of 298)
Rebel without a cause.
Did Harry take any school exam apart from OWLS? It's not mentioned anywhere in OotP that you have to take another exams after the OWLS
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Julia. - Jul 4, 2004 7:50 pm (#132 of 298)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
You have to take NEWTs in your seventh year. If you're talking about final exams in your fifth year, I'm pretty sure the answer is no. I think your OWLs are your finals, but I'm not entirely sure, and I can't come up with any canon evidence off hand.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 5, 2004 9:34 pm (#133 of 298)
Rebel without a cause.
So, what do the last few posts mean?
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Luanee - Jul 6, 2004 6:48 pm (#134 of 298)
Yes Tornedo, I am just as confused as you... I don't think there any 'regular finals' for the 5th years apart from their OWLS...
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ex-FAHgeek - Jul 6, 2004 8:43 pm (#135 of 298)
---quote--- Did Harry take any school exam apart from OWLS? It's not mentioned anywhere in OotP that you have to take another exams after the OWLS ---end quote---
You're right; I just looked it up and it seems there were no finals after the OWLs. I had thought there was a mention of them, but there wasn't.
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Dumbledore - Jul 7, 2004 6:12 pm (#136 of 298)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I don't think there were...
But let's say that in a particular subject (let's say astronomy, for argument's sake) you did horrible all year, got D's on all your graded assignments and homework, etc. Then when your OWL came up, you studied really hard and you managed to get an O. Would you be in the NEWT class? Does getting an O on your OWL automatically mean that you are in the NEWT class or is it up to the teacher's own discretion?
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Chris. - Jul 8, 2004 2:01 am (#137 of 298)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Hmmm... interesting question.
McGonagoll, etc, wouldn't want someone who doesn't work hard in class although they get good grades in their OWLs, although she could make exceptions in Neville, although I think he works quite well...most of the time. McGonagoll says Harry can study hard and make the Transfiguration grade(Exceeds Expectations), so this leads me to believe that even though you were horrible in class, you could still get it although teachers like McG and Snape (of course ) wouldn't want lazy and disruptive students in their class.
Sorry if this makes NO sense at all.
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total hatred - Jul 8, 2004 4:41 am (#138 of 298)
I believe Harry will get E on potions. It will no surpise to the Slytherins since they knew Harry is taking Remedial Potions from Snape.
Whatever what happens Harry will become an Auror. That is my prediction. Nothing can stop this. Either he do or does'nt have the mark to qualify to become one, he will be one. Defeating Voldie can be a way that he will awarded to become an Auror.
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Amilia Smith - Jul 10, 2004 6:00 pm (#139 of 298)
I don't see a problem with Harry getting the O he needs in Potions. After Snape kicks him out of Occumency and starts ignoring him in Potions, Harry is surprised at how easily he is able to make a Strengthening Draught. As to Harry's thoughts after the test, that it was difficult but he should have at least passed, I think he is underestimating himself. Potions is something he has always struggled with, and it takes time to get over that mindset. Also, I think it was in SS, Harry mentions being surprised at how well he did in his end of year exams.
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dawnmeter - Jul 11, 2004 11:05 am (#140 of 298)
These are my predictions:
Potions- O, Just because he felt like he did bad doesn't mean that he did. There have been many a test I felt like a failed only to get a high grade.
DADA- O
Charms- E
COMC- O, he was trying really hard for Hagrid
Astronomy- A or E, I think they will take into account the distractions.
Herbology A or O
Transfiguration- at least an E, he needs it for the NEWT classes.
HOM could be anything but I think at least an A, I don't think he will fail.
Divination- Since we don't know the standards they are testing too I think he might get an A at least.
Like I said, we don't know what it takes to get an O, in anything the standards for potions might accept for small mistakes as human error,the same for divination.
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Muggle Doctor - Jul 11, 2004 3:33 pm (#141 of 298)
On a more Slytherin-like note: at the start of the exams, McGonagall tells all the students about the anti-cheat charms placed on all of the exams. I had the funny thought this morning that if by chance somebody managed to circumvent all of the exams' defences, wouldn't that imply that they had the level of magical competence required to pass them anyway? (Especially since the students do not know exactly what the inbuilt 'defences' are, so would not automatically know how to circumvent them).
Two ways of passing: prove you know it all, or prove you can cheat successfully!!!
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total hatred - Jul 11, 2004 4:02 pm (#142 of 298)
I agree Muggle Doctor. I definitely agree to the ways you can pass a test sucessfully. BTW, as a side note what are your prediction of Draco's grades. Do you think he can pass all the test.
I believe that he will get a low grade on COMC. He is barely paying attention on Hagrid class.
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Lars Smedberg - Jul 15, 2004 10:33 am (#143 of 298)
Well, I guess my guesses are as good as anybody else's :
Defense against Dark Arts : O. Off course. But I wonder who next year's teacher will be ? Charms. I wouldn't be surprised if Harry got an O - it doesn't seem to be a very hard subject. Transfiguration : Maybe not an O, but I do think he'll get an E. Herbology : E. Care of Magic Creatures : O. Astronomy : I'll go for an A. History of Magic : An A there too. Divination : P - but I doubt he'll miss THAT one ! Potions : Hmm - that's a hard one. What about this; Harry gets a E, not an O - but Snape has to lower his standards a bit and accept students who only got an E. Maybe his favourite Malfoy didn't get more than an E - or maybe nobody or very few got an O (except for Hermione, off course...!) ?
I don't think anyone in Harry's year will have to quit school because of bad OWL grades - not even Crabbe & Goyle. If they did, that would be too much of a "change of the scene", if you understand what I mean...
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NYCNomad - Jul 15, 2004 1:48 pm (#144 of 298)
O - Outstanding E - Exceeds expectations A - Acceptable P - Poor D - Dreadful T - Troll (??)
Astronomy - A
Charms - E
DADA - O
Herbology - A
History of Magic - P
Potions - E
Transfiguration - E
Care of Magical creatures - O
Divination - A
I had him pass all but HoM, he barely even touched that one. Astronomy he did ok on, not because he didn't know it, but because of the distractions. Transfiguration he was doing ok in that according to McGonagall. COMC, i think he aced. Divination, well, that's anyones guess. Potions, I think he did ok, just not an O. Yeah, that's what I got on that.
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Angel of the North - Jul 15, 2004 2:03 pm (#145 of 298)
Tea, dammit
I think being taken ill in HoM would actually mean that Harry scraped a pass.
Astronomy - A - I think all the students would get a grade up because of the disruption.
Charms - O
DADA - O
Herbology - E
History of Magic - A - permitted to pass because of being ill
Potions - O - I think Snape's tutelage will have helped - exams just won't be so stressful as one of his lessons.
Transfiguration - O - scraped.
Care of Magical creatures - O
Divination - P or A. Borderline
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Luis Paris - Jul 15, 2004 2:38 pm (#146 of 298)
Charms-E
Transfiguration-E
Herbology-E
Defence Against The Dark Arts-O
Potions-E
Care Of Magical Creatures-O
Astronomy-A
Divination-P
History Of Magic-P
It seems that in total there are 12 subjects in Hogwarts, 7 basic ones and 5 optional of which you have to choose at least 2. Hermione managed to complete one year with these twelve subject with the help of the time turner, but it was too strainfull. So how come some people have managed 12 OWLs, surviving 3 years with 12 subjects. It seems really complicated.
Unless Practical and Theory OWLs where graded seperately and counted as 2 OWLs instead of 1. It is unlikely but possible.
I am sorry if I've repeated any information that has been posted earlier but I am new at this. And please correct if any thing I've said is wrong.
P.S. In order to become an Auror you need a minimum of five NEWTs, nothing under Exceeds Expectations. No specific NEWTs are mentioned but then MM tells him what subject he ought to take and she clearly says in order for him to move on with these subjects he needs to accomplish an especific pass grade depending on the teacher of each subject. Based on this I don't think Harry has a chance of becoming an Auror by his academic achievements, but on the other hand in the case that Harry, as I don't doubt he will, defeats Voldemort and survives, the latter i don't know, merrit him to be accepted to Auror Training.
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spug - Jul 15, 2004 7:20 pm (#147 of 298)
In order to become an Auror you need a minimum of five NEWTs, nothing under Exceeds Expectations... Based on this I don't think Harry has a chance of becoming an Auror by his academic achievements -Luis
Oh, i don't know. According to your grades (which I tend to agree with, except for Divination, which I would give him an A, and possibly an A in HoM because he was sick) it appears he passed six OWLs with an E or higher, and I doubt he would do much worse on NEWTS. Also, why would a auror really need to know History of Magic, Astromony, or Divination? If he passes the six again, I think he has a pretty good chance.
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OGF Webmaster - Jul 17, 2004 10:58 am (#148 of 298)
Astronomy - P
Charms - E
DADA - O
Herbology - E
History of Magic - A
Potions - E
Transfiguration - E
Care of Magical creatures - O
Divination - A
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haymoni - Jul 17, 2004 11:57 am (#149 of 298)
At the end of POA, we learn that Percy had gotten top grades for his NEWTS and that the Twins had scraped up a handful of OWLS each.
Why does Harry's class have to wait until the summer to find out their grades?
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 17, 2004 12:58 pm (#150 of 298)
I think that Harry's Potion's grade is almost certainly an O. Auror is the only career that I can see for Harry after school (I really don't think he'll be a Quidditch star) and he needs that O. It certainly won't be a just decent score, because that would just be undramatic. I think that Snape's cruelty to Harry far exaggerates his patheticness at Potions.
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I skimmed through most of this thread and of course I'll be reapeating mostly the same grades as others did before me, but I will differ in the Potions mark. Snape is a very strict teacher, he asks a lot of his students and probably marks them accordingly, but in the OWL-exam it will not be he who marks the exams, so I see a chance for Harry to get an E or even the needed O. Harry definitely has a tendency to underestimate his abilities.
DADA: O Transfiguration: E Potions: E-O (wouldn't an O be hilarious? I'd love to see Snape's face, and since it won't be he who marks the exam, I really believe it possible!) Charms: E Herbology: A-E Care of Magical Creatures: E Divination: D Astronomy: A History of Magic: D(or even worse, if indeed T does exist, he really didn't get much of that test done).
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ex-FAHgeek - May 21, 2004 1:22 pm (#102 of 298)
I just realized while reading the Hermione Granger thread one grade that I completely forgot would probably not get the O as expected: Astronomy. However, assuming that she works quickly and accurately, she may still have been able to pull an E. Alas, a horrible stain on her otherwise perfect contingent of O's...
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Loopy Lupin - May 25, 2004 6:35 am (#103 of 298)
Perhaps, but I wouldn't be surprised if by the time Umbridge and the Auror's came for Hagrid, Hermione was already done and just double checking for accuracy.
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Catherine - May 25, 2004 7:02 am (#104 of 298)
Canon Seeker
I've been wondering about the Astronomy O.W.L. Not exactly ideal testing situation there, what with two teachers being attacked by aurors in front of their students. I keep hoping that they'll "curve" that grade or toss it altogether! Although I guess that would violate JKR's "there are tough lessons in life" theme.
I've also wondered how, if everyone knows that true Seers are rare, they grade the Divination O.W.L. Seems to me that not seeing anything would be about the expection--how to get below an Acceptable? Maybe Harry's prediction that Marchbanks should have died 'the previous Tuesday" will prove to be the kind of prediction that can earn one a Poor. Or, maybe Marchbanks is so old that she really should have died the previous Tuesday! I just can't imagine someone grading that exam in a serious way!
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ex-FAHgeek - May 25, 2004 9:56 am (#105 of 298)
---quote--- I've also wondered how, if everyone knows that true Seers are rare, they grade the Divination O.W.L. Seems to me that not seeing anything would be about the expection--how to get below an Acceptable? Maybe Harry's prediction that Marchbanks should have died 'the previous Tuesday" will prove to be the kind of prediction that can earn one a Poor. Or, maybe Marchbanks is so old that she really should have died the previous Tuesday! I just can't imagine someone grading that exam in a serious way! ---end quote---
My guess would be that even though true Seers are rare, they are being graded on fortune-telling techniques. McGonnegal and Firenze don't take it seriously, but other characters ranging from Trelawny to Lavender and Parvati to Percy all seem to do so. They're not expecting the students to go into a trance and come up with a prophecy like Cassandra, but they do expect them to see something in the crystal ball besides their own reflections.
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S.E. Jones - May 25, 2004 7:22 pm (#106 of 298)
Let it snow!
Question: Do teachers in the UK ever grade on a curve? (There are different systems of figuring a curve.) That way the Astronomy and Divination grades may be better than they thought.
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Loopy Lupin - May 26, 2004 6:35 am (#107 of 298)
ex-FAHgeek, that must be the way divination is graded. It would seem extremely unfair to grade someone on a rare gift which, by definition, most would not have.
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ex-FAHgeek - May 26, 2004 12:11 pm (#108 of 298)
---quote--- McGonnegal and Firenze don't take it seriously... ---end quote---
Why do I keep mispelling McGonagall? I think I do that in almost every single post I make. Grrr...
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PIJ - Jun 2, 2004 4:25 am (#109 of 298)
How in the grading system can a student get an E unless the assessors are versed in the students current abilities (i.e. end of year school reports).
The examining wizards must be versed in what each student is capable of prior to the exam so that the papers and practicals can be set to an average level if this is not the case then each student must have their own paper (not likely from the books quoting conversations about the papers). Therefore in order to estimate grades we need to consider the spread of fifth years from all the books and thier talents then apply the characters back to this baseline in order to estimate their grades.
This would then mean that for divination for instance the baseline would be so low that the expected grade across the year would be poor. Any thing actually predicted or the attempt to work something out would then mean a higher grade. Therefore Ron gets a P as he only saw the reflection of the examiner. Harry gets an A as he attempted to work out the date that Prof. Marchbanks dies.
Hope this makes sense. I know in the UK from O level to Post Graduate you will always gain marks for your work outs even if the end answer is incorrect.
Sorry I seem to have rambled a little through this.
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PIJ - Jun 2, 2004 7:09 am (#110 of 298)
On the subject of Practical and Written grades.
If it is agreed that the OWLs basis is the British system there is nothing to stop there being two grades. In English GCSE/O Level there are three grades - Literature, Language and Oral
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Dumbledore - Jun 3, 2004 2:14 pm (#111 of 298)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
PIJ, perhaps the examiners receive a sort of report from each professor which explains the basic skills that each student should have to be considered at Ordinary Wizarding Level, and that would be considered the "A" grade. If the student does better than that standard average, then he would receive the Exceeds Expectations. If the grades were based upon each student's individual performance that year in the subject, then Neville, who did horribly in Potions, could possibly scrape an E, because since he was in a relaxed atmosphere he would probably do much better than usual in class. It just wouldn't make sense for teachers to do it that way because it would give biased exam results, because the students would only be trying to beat their own personal standards, as opposed to the standards that they should be up to by OWL level.
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TGF - Jun 7, 2004 5:59 am (#112 of 298)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
My predictions:
Okay, Defense Against the Dark Arts will be an O, no problem. Most likely he got even better than Hermione on this.
Charms I think will be an E, if not an O... He didn't seem to have much trouble with his written exam, and only mentions one mistake on the practical. Sounds good to me.
Herbology, I think will be an A or a low E. It doesn't really matter how Harry does in that anyhow.
Care of Magical Creatures... Harry didn't seem to have had much trouble there, he gave Hagrid a thumbs-up and all... I would say E or O.
Transfiguration he seemed to do pretty decently on. I think he can scrap the 'E' that he needs for his Auror requirements.
Potions? Eeeee, this is difficult. It's said that Harry found the written exam hard and it said after the practical that he had at least not failed. Snape wasn't there, so he was more relaxed than usual, but thing is he needs an O to pursue his dream of being an Auror... I don't know if he got an O or not in that... I would guess more likely to be an A or an E... I wonder if they'll be some fuss over that mark... Maybe Mcgonagall will stick her neck out for him... Or maybe Harry will surprise himself.
Divination a nice healthy 'T' or 'P'... And he'll be all the better for it.
Astronomy he probably didn't do well in. He only finished 2/3s of his chart. That's a P or an A most likely.
History of Magic I would guess he failed too, considering he passed out shortly into it. No surprises there.
So its two OWLs per subject, one for practical and one for written? That makes a lot more sense, as there's no other way Percy could rack in twelve OWLs. Interesting... So if Snape requires an 'O' to get into Potions, and Harry gets an E on his written and an O on his practical, does Harry get in? Is he expected to get an O in both, only one, or would the average (EO, I guess...) simply not be enough to get him in?
Very confusing system.
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The Grey Lady - Jun 15, 2004 6:11 pm (#113 of 298)
Sup, Figgy?
Can someone clear this up for me?:
Does Harry -absolutely- need his Newt in Potions, or just knowledge of the subject (for the Ministry to hire him)? I only remember McGonagall saying potions will be usefull, or something to that effect, then stating how many Owls he needed...
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Tomoé - Jun 15, 2004 7:43 pm (#114 of 298)
Back in business
He need five Exceed Expectation NEWTs, any NEWTs, it could be Divination, History of Magic, Astronomy, Muggle Studies and care of Magical Creature (though I sure he'll have more chance to get the job if he takes less random subject ^_^ ).
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Luanee - Jun 18, 2004 12:35 am (#115 of 298)
This was what McGonagall said during Harry's career advice:
'I would also advise Transfiguration, because Aurors frequently need to Transfigure or Untransfigure in their work. And I ought to tell you now, Potter, that I do not accept students into my NEWT classes unless they have achieved "Exceeds Expectations" or higher at Ordinary Wizarding Level. I'd say you're averaging "Acceptable" at the moment, so you'll need to put in some good hard work before the exams to stand a chance of continuing. Then you ought to do Charms, always useful, and Potions. Yes, Potter, Potions,' she added, with the merest flicker of a smile. 'Poisons and antidotes are essential study for Aurors. And I must tell you that Professor Snape absolutely refuses to take students who get anything other than "Outstanding" in their OWLs, so — '
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S.E. Jones - Jun 18, 2004 12:48 am (#116 of 298)
Let it snow!
So he needs a minimum of five NEWTs, right? Well, Transfiguration, Charms, and Potions will be three of them, it would seem.... DADA, of course (duh!).... So that leaves one class open.... Divination or Care of Magical Creatures? He definately did well enough of his CMC OWL to get into next year's class (as if Hagrid would say no!)... Does anyone think, by sheer luck, the person who gave him his Divination test really will meet a soggy brown stranger or whatever he saw in the cup?
EDIT: No-one ever answered my question before so I'll ask it again: Does anyone know if the UK uses a grading curve when grading tests that are the Muggle equivalent of OWLs, or are they normalized?
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librarian314 - Jun 19, 2004 4:39 am (#117 of 298)
Hey all!
We all know that Harry and Neville aren't particularly great at Potions and Hermione is, through what Harry tells us in the books.
Do we ever find out what their grades actually are (not OWLs but regular end of term time grades, are they passing, failing)?
I've taken some classes where I though I was doing poorly (barely scraping a C, yes I'm a recovering Hermione ;-) ) and come report card time, found out I was doing better than I had thought.
Could the kids actually doing better in Potions than we think? Is Snape just a really hard teacher that seems impossible to please, just to get the kids to learn the subject and the kids end up being really well prepared for the OWLs because of it?
Take care!
*michelle the librarian**
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Dr Filibuster - Jun 19, 2004 5:11 pm (#118 of 298)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
Librarian314...we don't have US grade sytems in the UK. There are SATs now, but I think they are more an indication of how well the teachers/schools are doing and a way to try and predict somebody's potential qualifications. Some project based work and assesments do count towards GCSEs (modern OWLs) these days, but this is after JKR's time.
The Hogwarts kids take end of year exams, but I don't think that would count towards one's final OWL result. If it's anything like the O levels JKR (and I) took then the performance during the actual exam is everything. Which was an absolute misery for any swots with hayfever.
In reply to Sarah's question, I seem to remember our teachers telling us (in the early 1980's) that our results were marked on a percentile basis...eg, top 10% got an A, next 5% got a B, and so on. This was not the case in earlier decades. The grades were not evenly spread (if you got a B or a D you were unlucky because you'd just missed out on an A or C...a D was a fail). I think there was a set pass level to ensure standards were met but in practise this method raised levels of the highest grades. OK now I'm getting bogged down with details and completely bored myself. Wake up!
I tried to look up a link for proof/further information but was unsuccessful. Probably because the exam system changed before the internet took off, and partly because it's so boring nobody cares apart from us HP obsessives. Knowing if papers are marked on a percentile basis could help predict Astronomy and Divination results. But knowing Rowling's lack of enthusiasm for maths I think she will keep things simple.
Hmm, unless she is amused by telling us in passing that a series of hideously complicated grading systems gave everyone a pass in Divination apart from Lavender and Parvati.
Ok, I'm off to post my theory about Neville's gran and the lovely professor Tofty (he's so sweet) on the 'ship thread.
Edit: Librarian314...Minerva tells Harry how well he's averaged in DADA and Charms during the Careers advice chapter in OoP.
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TGF - Jun 19, 2004 5:26 pm (#119 of 298)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Do regular class marks even count for anything? Particularly regular 5th year class marks... It seemed to be implied that the OWL exams counted for basically everything, which is distinctly unfair. Harry is screwed in History of Magic because he messed up his OWL. That's five years of classes gone to waste since he messed up one exam. How brutal.
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S.E. Jones - Jun 19, 2004 10:31 pm (#120 of 298)
Let it snow!
Well, the regular grades count as far as having to repeat a grade as so when you take your OWL or NEWT....
From what I can tell, it seems that the Trio are all passing their subjects, even if only barely.....
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Bash - Jun 20, 2004 3:25 am (#121 of 298)
SE Jones, yes, at A2 level there was a grading curve used - that's how I got 100%
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Dr Filibuster - Jun 20, 2004 5:56 am (#122 of 298)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
TGF, when I was a 5th year the brainiest girl in the school had an emergency appendix op during exam fortnight.
She had been a brilliant student since the age of 4. An examiner sat at her bedside in hospital for a few exams. She ended up with about 3 O Levels. Under the circumstances our school allowed her to start her chosen A levels (NEWTs) in the September.
Perhaps Prof Sinistra and Albus-give-people-a-2nd-chance-Dumbledore will be lenient and allow Astronomy students into the NEWT classes if they re-sit (and pass) their OWLs next year?
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azi - Jun 22, 2004 12:26 pm (#123 of 298)
Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
The grading curve in England depends on how well the candidates do so you expect that to get grade A you need 80%, 70% for a B and so on. However if there is a particuarly hard paper which is done badly overall then it can be lowered to, for example, 66% for an A in one Geog practise paper I took. On my GCSE higher maths paper you only needed about 25% to get a C, some years it is even lower. I'm glad to say I managed that C.
I agree with Sue on '2nd chance teachers'. I can't see Prof. Sprout refusing anyone because they did badly in their exams, nor in fact Flitwick.
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Padfoot - Jun 23, 2004 3:22 pm (#124 of 298)
I have a question that deal with grades, but not Harry's grades. At the end of CoS, DD cancels all school tests. Does that include OWLS and NEWTS? How do those students graduate and/or move on to the NEWT classes? I guess that's two questions, sorry.
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Scarlet Seer - Jun 23, 2004 8:58 pm (#125 of 298)
I think Harry may have some talent as a seer; remember, he accurately predicted Buckbeak's escape and read Ron's cup accurately. If Dumbledore knows and if it's important that Harry develop his talent with guidance, Dumbledore may curve Harry's Divination grade to make sure he continues. Just a vagrant thought...
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TGF - Jun 24, 2004 9:48 am (#126 of 298)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Padfoot: I think they would've had to have gone on... I believe OWLs occur slightly before normal exams to begin with, and I hardly think that Dumbledore would consider it a 'special school treat' to ruin the futures of two years worth of Hogwarts students.
The only exams that count for anything in the long run are the OWLs and the NEWTs (you appear to only need to just pass), so it probably wasn't a big deal for Dumbledore to cancel the exams of year 1-4 and 6. Though I imagine that would've sucked for people who were doing poorly and wanted to use the exams to pull up their marks.
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Padfoot - Jun 24, 2004 2:24 pm (#127 of 298)
That's sort of what I figured. But since it was not explained, I just wondered. Since it didn't affect Harry's future, he did not notice.
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S.E. Jones - Jun 24, 2004 7:13 pm (#128 of 298)
Let it snow!
Scarlet Seer: I think Harry may have some talent as a seer; remember, he accurately predicted Buckbeak's escape and read Ron's cup accurately.
How did he read Ron's cup accurately? How did Ron suffer but be happy about it? I can see how that would work for Harry (though that's a movie discussion) but Ron?
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ex-FAHgeek - Jul 4, 2004 9:57 am (#129 of 298)
---quote--- Do regular class marks even count for anything? Particularly regular 5th year class marks... It seemed to be implied that the OWL exams counted for basically everything, which is distinctly unfair. Harry is screwed in History of Magic because he messed up his OWL. That's five years of classes gone to waste since he messed up one exam. How brutal. ---end of quote---
Well, the first four years at least count as far as the fact that one needs to pass his or her classes simply to get to the point of taking OWLs. Likewise, the students still have to pass their final exams after the OWLS - thus, one could have an excellent set of OWLs and theoretically still flunk out of Hogwarts by doing something stupid like not showing up for the finals ("The OWLs are what matters, so I don't need to go to Exam X...") Conversely, a student could do poorly in the OWL and still pass the regular final, thus completing school requirements, even if he or she doesn't get to continue with the subject (for example, a lot of kids may flunk their Astronomy OWL, but still finish their 5th year of Astronomy on the final.)
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Dumbledore - Jul 4, 2004 10:44 am (#130 of 298)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
So hypothetically, if you got an O on the astronomy OWL, but flunked the asronomy final, would you still be able to be in the NEWT class?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 4, 2004 2:02 pm (#131 of 298)
Rebel without a cause.
Did Harry take any school exam apart from OWLS? It's not mentioned anywhere in OotP that you have to take another exams after the OWLS
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Julia. - Jul 4, 2004 7:50 pm (#132 of 298)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
You have to take NEWTs in your seventh year. If you're talking about final exams in your fifth year, I'm pretty sure the answer is no. I think your OWLs are your finals, but I'm not entirely sure, and I can't come up with any canon evidence off hand.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 5, 2004 9:34 pm (#133 of 298)
Rebel without a cause.
So, what do the last few posts mean?
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Luanee - Jul 6, 2004 6:48 pm (#134 of 298)
Yes Tornedo, I am just as confused as you... I don't think there any 'regular finals' for the 5th years apart from their OWLS...
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ex-FAHgeek - Jul 6, 2004 8:43 pm (#135 of 298)
---quote--- Did Harry take any school exam apart from OWLS? It's not mentioned anywhere in OotP that you have to take another exams after the OWLS ---end quote---
You're right; I just looked it up and it seems there were no finals after the OWLs. I had thought there was a mention of them, but there wasn't.
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Dumbledore - Jul 7, 2004 6:12 pm (#136 of 298)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I don't think there were...
But let's say that in a particular subject (let's say astronomy, for argument's sake) you did horrible all year, got D's on all your graded assignments and homework, etc. Then when your OWL came up, you studied really hard and you managed to get an O. Would you be in the NEWT class? Does getting an O on your OWL automatically mean that you are in the NEWT class or is it up to the teacher's own discretion?
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Chris. - Jul 8, 2004 2:01 am (#137 of 298)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Hmmm... interesting question.
McGonagoll, etc, wouldn't want someone who doesn't work hard in class although they get good grades in their OWLs, although she could make exceptions in Neville, although I think he works quite well...most of the time. McGonagoll says Harry can study hard and make the Transfiguration grade(Exceeds Expectations), so this leads me to believe that even though you were horrible in class, you could still get it although teachers like McG and Snape (of course ) wouldn't want lazy and disruptive students in their class.
Sorry if this makes NO sense at all.
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total hatred - Jul 8, 2004 4:41 am (#138 of 298)
I believe Harry will get E on potions. It will no surpise to the Slytherins since they knew Harry is taking Remedial Potions from Snape.
Whatever what happens Harry will become an Auror. That is my prediction. Nothing can stop this. Either he do or does'nt have the mark to qualify to become one, he will be one. Defeating Voldie can be a way that he will awarded to become an Auror.
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Amilia Smith - Jul 10, 2004 6:00 pm (#139 of 298)
I don't see a problem with Harry getting the O he needs in Potions. After Snape kicks him out of Occumency and starts ignoring him in Potions, Harry is surprised at how easily he is able to make a Strengthening Draught. As to Harry's thoughts after the test, that it was difficult but he should have at least passed, I think he is underestimating himself. Potions is something he has always struggled with, and it takes time to get over that mindset. Also, I think it was in SS, Harry mentions being surprised at how well he did in his end of year exams.
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dawnmeter - Jul 11, 2004 11:05 am (#140 of 298)
These are my predictions:
Potions- O, Just because he felt like he did bad doesn't mean that he did. There have been many a test I felt like a failed only to get a high grade.
DADA- O
Charms- E
COMC- O, he was trying really hard for Hagrid
Astronomy- A or E, I think they will take into account the distractions.
Herbology A or O
Transfiguration- at least an E, he needs it for the NEWT classes.
HOM could be anything but I think at least an A, I don't think he will fail.
Divination- Since we don't know the standards they are testing too I think he might get an A at least.
Like I said, we don't know what it takes to get an O, in anything the standards for potions might accept for small mistakes as human error,the same for divination.
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Muggle Doctor - Jul 11, 2004 3:33 pm (#141 of 298)
On a more Slytherin-like note: at the start of the exams, McGonagall tells all the students about the anti-cheat charms placed on all of the exams. I had the funny thought this morning that if by chance somebody managed to circumvent all of the exams' defences, wouldn't that imply that they had the level of magical competence required to pass them anyway? (Especially since the students do not know exactly what the inbuilt 'defences' are, so would not automatically know how to circumvent them).
Two ways of passing: prove you know it all, or prove you can cheat successfully!!!
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total hatred - Jul 11, 2004 4:02 pm (#142 of 298)
I agree Muggle Doctor. I definitely agree to the ways you can pass a test sucessfully. BTW, as a side note what are your prediction of Draco's grades. Do you think he can pass all the test.
I believe that he will get a low grade on COMC. He is barely paying attention on Hagrid class.
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Lars Smedberg - Jul 15, 2004 10:33 am (#143 of 298)
Well, I guess my guesses are as good as anybody else's :
Defense against Dark Arts : O. Off course. But I wonder who next year's teacher will be ? Charms. I wouldn't be surprised if Harry got an O - it doesn't seem to be a very hard subject. Transfiguration : Maybe not an O, but I do think he'll get an E. Herbology : E. Care of Magic Creatures : O. Astronomy : I'll go for an A. History of Magic : An A there too. Divination : P - but I doubt he'll miss THAT one ! Potions : Hmm - that's a hard one. What about this; Harry gets a E, not an O - but Snape has to lower his standards a bit and accept students who only got an E. Maybe his favourite Malfoy didn't get more than an E - or maybe nobody or very few got an O (except for Hermione, off course...!) ?
I don't think anyone in Harry's year will have to quit school because of bad OWL grades - not even Crabbe & Goyle. If they did, that would be too much of a "change of the scene", if you understand what I mean...
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NYCNomad - Jul 15, 2004 1:48 pm (#144 of 298)
O - Outstanding E - Exceeds expectations A - Acceptable P - Poor D - Dreadful T - Troll (??)
Astronomy - A
Charms - E
DADA - O
Herbology - A
History of Magic - P
Potions - E
Transfiguration - E
Care of Magical creatures - O
Divination - A
I had him pass all but HoM, he barely even touched that one. Astronomy he did ok on, not because he didn't know it, but because of the distractions. Transfiguration he was doing ok in that according to McGonagall. COMC, i think he aced. Divination, well, that's anyones guess. Potions, I think he did ok, just not an O. Yeah, that's what I got on that.
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Angel of the North - Jul 15, 2004 2:03 pm (#145 of 298)
Tea, dammit
I think being taken ill in HoM would actually mean that Harry scraped a pass.
Astronomy - A - I think all the students would get a grade up because of the disruption.
Charms - O
DADA - O
Herbology - E
History of Magic - A - permitted to pass because of being ill
Potions - O - I think Snape's tutelage will have helped - exams just won't be so stressful as one of his lessons.
Transfiguration - O - scraped.
Care of Magical creatures - O
Divination - P or A. Borderline
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Luis Paris - Jul 15, 2004 2:38 pm (#146 of 298)
Charms-E
Transfiguration-E
Herbology-E
Defence Against The Dark Arts-O
Potions-E
Care Of Magical Creatures-O
Astronomy-A
Divination-P
History Of Magic-P
It seems that in total there are 12 subjects in Hogwarts, 7 basic ones and 5 optional of which you have to choose at least 2. Hermione managed to complete one year with these twelve subject with the help of the time turner, but it was too strainfull. So how come some people have managed 12 OWLs, surviving 3 years with 12 subjects. It seems really complicated.
Unless Practical and Theory OWLs where graded seperately and counted as 2 OWLs instead of 1. It is unlikely but possible.
I am sorry if I've repeated any information that has been posted earlier but I am new at this. And please correct if any thing I've said is wrong.
P.S. In order to become an Auror you need a minimum of five NEWTs, nothing under Exceeds Expectations. No specific NEWTs are mentioned but then MM tells him what subject he ought to take and she clearly says in order for him to move on with these subjects he needs to accomplish an especific pass grade depending on the teacher of each subject. Based on this I don't think Harry has a chance of becoming an Auror by his academic achievements, but on the other hand in the case that Harry, as I don't doubt he will, defeats Voldemort and survives, the latter i don't know, merrit him to be accepted to Auror Training.
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spug - Jul 15, 2004 7:20 pm (#147 of 298)
In order to become an Auror you need a minimum of five NEWTs, nothing under Exceeds Expectations... Based on this I don't think Harry has a chance of becoming an Auror by his academic achievements -Luis
Oh, i don't know. According to your grades (which I tend to agree with, except for Divination, which I would give him an A, and possibly an A in HoM because he was sick) it appears he passed six OWLs with an E or higher, and I doubt he would do much worse on NEWTS. Also, why would a auror really need to know History of Magic, Astromony, or Divination? If he passes the six again, I think he has a pretty good chance.
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OGF Webmaster - Jul 17, 2004 10:58 am (#148 of 298)
Astronomy - P
Charms - E
DADA - O
Herbology - E
History of Magic - A
Potions - E
Transfiguration - E
Care of Magical creatures - O
Divination - A
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haymoni - Jul 17, 2004 11:57 am (#149 of 298)
At the end of POA, we learn that Percy had gotten top grades for his NEWTS and that the Twins had scraped up a handful of OWLS each.
Why does Harry's class have to wait until the summer to find out their grades?
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 17, 2004 12:58 pm (#150 of 298)
I think that Harry's Potion's grade is almost certainly an O. Auror is the only career that I can see for Harry after school (I really don't think he'll be a Quidditch star) and he needs that O. It certainly won't be a just decent score, because that would just be undramatic. I think that Snape's cruelty to Harry far exaggerates his patheticness at Potions.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Predictions for Harry’s OWLs grades (Post 151 to 200)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 2:32 am
Paul Filippelli - Jul 17, 2004 8:13 pm (#151 of 298)
Harry: Transfiguration: E or O Charms: E or O DADA: O Divination: T, D, P, or A Astronomy: P, A, or E Potions: probably O because he needs to be an Auror History of Magic: T, D, or P
Ron: Trans.: anything but O or E Charms: anything but O or E DADA: O or E Divination: O Astronomy: D, P, or A Potions: anything but O or E H. of M.: T or D
Hermione: Everything: O or E
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potterfan79 - Jul 18, 2004 4:58 pm (#152 of 298)
Harry
Charms: E, but not O because he got mixed up on something
Transfiguration: E if not O
Herbology: E possibly even O
DADA: O of course
Potions: maybe E but I don't think O. Unfortunately McGonagal said Snape doesn't accept anyone below O status in his NEWT Potions classes in Harry's career advice discussion. However, I think I read somewhere that Harry will be continuing potions in 6th year so I wonder if Harry didn't get an O how he will manage continuing the subject in 6th year. Does anyone know anything about this?
CMC: O
Astronomy: A maybe and E though I doubt it because he left a third of his chart blank
Divination: P maybe D
HoM: P because he barely filled anything out. The only way I can see him passing that exam is if somehow he was able to complete it subconsiously while having his premonition about Sirius though I doubt that's the case.
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Lars Smedberg - Jul 19, 2004 12:52 am (#153 of 298)
Well, as I said, I believe Snape has to lower his expectations. Maybe because nobody (except for Hermione...) has an O in "Potions"...?
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mrweasley - Jul 19, 2004 12:17 pm (#154 of 298)
I'm sorry, but...
I don't think it is very probable that Harry achieved an O in Potions. Apart from the question about Polyjuice Potion, "he found the written paper difficult" (OotP, p. 631)and felt lucky at the end of the practical that "he had, with luck, avoided a fail." (632)
I think that Harry will still be able go take Potion NEWT classes, because of the new potions teacher. After all, that job is vacant, with Snape taking over DADA in book 6 and 7... :-)
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Chris. - Jul 19, 2004 1:01 pm (#155 of 298)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
My predictions:
Potions- Probably E, but perhaps an O.
Transfiguration- E
Charms- E
History of Magic- A
Herbology- E, if not O
Care of Magic Creatures- O
Divination- A
Astronomy- A
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Cuivienen - Jul 19, 2004 6:50 pm (#156 of 298)
I'm theorizing a division of Theoretical and Practical tests here for the major classes, so:
Astronomy - A Examination scores cancelled. Students may retake the examination.
Divination - A
History of Magic - D Retest permitted and advised due to circumstances.
Care of Magical Creatures - O
Potions
(T) - E
(P) - O
Transfiguration
(T) - E
(P) - E
Charms
(T) - E
(P) - E
Defense Against the Dark Arts
(T) - O
(P) - O With Honors
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Mundane Madness - Jul 20, 2004 9:18 am (#157 of 298)
I need to point out that Harry does get into NEWT potions, so he needs to get an O. Snape said he does not accept people into NEWTs without an O. I also think eh got e and a every where else expect Divination, a P, and History of MAgic, without Hermione's help, a P.
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Aud Duck - Jul 25, 2004 1:45 pm (#158 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
My predictions: DADA: O Potions: O (I really don't think Harry's auror dream will be killed so soon, although he might get an E if, as others have suggested, Snape has to lower his standards. I know Harry didn't feel that good about it, but I, personally, have found that I often do well when I thought I hadn't. Plus, Snape was grading their essays to OWL level at the beginning of the year. He's probably got higher expectations than the ministry.) Transfiguration: O or E. I can't decide. Charms: E Astronomy: D (Unless they curve the grades) Herbology: A or E Care of Magical Creatures: O (He felt good about the test and he studied hard for Hagrid's sake) Divination: D History of Magic: D
I have a grading dilemma, though. If you take the maximum courseload (minus a timeturner), you can't get more than 10 OWLs. But if you split the grades for DADA, Potions, Transfiguration, Charms, and Astronomy, my predictions leave Harry with 12 OWLs, and I can't see him getting grades that are obviously considered excellent. I would guess that a student like Harry would end up with more like 7 or 8 OWLs. The only solution I can see is that you don't get an OWL for just a pass, you have to get E or O. With my predictions, this would leave Harry with 8 OWLs, which strikes me as plausible. The problem is that it doesn't seem likely that the tests would be graded that way. Any suggestions?
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Amilia Smith - Jul 27, 2004 2:15 pm (#159 of 298)
We all seem to be having this trouble. I don't think we will know for sure how the grading works until HBP comes out. Some interesting ideas I have read here and elsewhere are as follows:
1) Percy, Bill and Crouch Jr. did have timeturners, but somehow were able to handle the work load better than Hermione did. They did not have to worry about escaped murders stalking their best friend or try to prepare for a hippogriff trial. Or maybe they just didn't put as much effort into their homework. Hermione got over 300% in her Muggle Studies class; you don't need to work that hard to pass.
2) The grades are split, but Percy & co. did not pass all of them.
3) The grades are split for the more important classes (Transfiguration, Potions, Charms, DADA), but not for others (History, Herbology, CoMC).
Personally, I am leaning towards #1, but like I said, it's anybody's guess.
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Brent Sloan - Jul 27, 2004 3:15 pm (#160 of 298)
Here’s what I am predicting for Harry:
Astronomy - P ; Charms - E ; Herbology - A ; History of Magic – D ; Potions - O ; Transfiguration - E ; Care of Magical Creatures - O ; DADA – O + ; Divination – A ;
7 OWLs (Assuming A and above count as an OWL)
I had a teacher give me an A+ once. It didn't count as anything more than an A academically speaking but it was a nice gesture to say I did above and beyond. I would like to see Harry get an O+ in DADA just to make Hermione indignant and impressed at the same time
I have another thought for a possible outcome concerning how the Astronomy exam was interrupted. The grades would stand as they are but an OWL would be given for P and above. *shrugs* just a thought
Too bad Hermione couldn't have sat in on another exam, say Muggle Studies and pulled another OWL.
By the way, they don't have summer studies after taking their OWL eams do they?
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Amilia Smith - Aug 1, 2004 3:51 pm (#161 of 298)
I don't think they have summer studies, because they don't know what classes they will be taking next year. NEWT classes are determined, at least partially, by OWL grades, which the students don't have yet.
I have a question that doesn't have to do with Harry's OWLs, but it does refer to a conversation going on a while back on this thread, and I don't know where else to ask it. In post #124, Padfoot asked if OWLs and NEWTs would have been cancelled along with the rest of end of year tests in COS. The general consensus seemed to be that, no, they wouldn't be cancelled, 5th and 7th years still had exams. But what about GOF? School champions are exempt from end of year exams. This is all well and good for 4th year Harry, but don't Fluer, Cedric and Krum still have to sit NEWTs?
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TomProffitt - Aug 1, 2004 6:23 pm (#162 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
No to all three taking NEWTS, one Frenchwoman, one Bulgarian, and one dead. Although I assume Cedric was planning on taking his NEWTs anyway, rather than have to repeat a year at school.
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Amilia Smith - Aug 1, 2004 8:14 pm (#163 of 298)
Surely the French and Bulgarians have some sort of equivilant?
And when DD announced that champions were exempt from exams, nobody was dead yet. He wouldn't have been planning on Cedric dying and not needing NEWTs.
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ex-FAHgeek - Aug 2, 2004 6:48 am (#164 of 298)
---quote--- This is all well and good for 4th year Harry, but don't Fluer, Cedric and Krum still have to sit NEWTs? ---end quote---
Well, Cedric was only a 6th year, so it wouldn't have mattered for him either.
Mlle. Delacour and Mr. Krum don't take NEWTs, although there may very well have been an equivalent exam for their own schools. We don't know whether Beauxbatons and Durmstrang cancelled their exams.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 2, 2004 7:17 am (#165 of 298)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
One of the things that just makes you wonder...Beauxbatons and Durmstrang students, did they even have lessons that year, and would Madam Maxine and Karloff have taught them All subjects if they did. Or did they just sit around, unseen, except of meals and challenges because they have no other useful contribution to the plot? In other words, just a moot point?
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ex-FAHgeek - Aug 2, 2004 7:33 am (#166 of 298)
---quote--- Beauxbatons and Durmstrang students, did they even have lessons that year, and would Madam Maxine and Karloff have taught them All subjects if they did. ---end quote---
I assumed that Olympe and Igor were doing specialized tutoring with the students they brought, at least Olympe (Viktor's later comments about Karkaroff letting the students do all the work on the ship makes me wonder if they were stuck with some sort of "independent study" instead of formal lessons...) However, I can't imagine Olympe allowing her students to remain idle.
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Amilia Smith - Aug 2, 2004 1:07 pm (#167 of 298)
I just assumed they were like exchange students and went to class with Hogwarts students. We just never see them in class because none of them would be in with the 4th years.
BTW, thanks all for your input. This question has really been bugging me.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 2, 2004 2:24 pm (#168 of 298)
I think they said the foreign students returned to their schools after the selection...
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Czarina II - Aug 2, 2004 7:44 pm (#169 of 298)
I thought Cedric was a seventh-year.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 2, 2004 8:01 pm (#170 of 298)
He was.
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Czarina II - Aug 3, 2004 9:40 am (#171 of 298)
Good, I'm not as crazy as I thought. :-)
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The One - Aug 10, 2004 11:04 am (#172 of 298)
Open minded sceptic
Good, I'm not as crazy as I thought. :-)
Sure? :-)
PoA, chapter 17
Wood had pointed out Cedric Diggory to him in the corridor; Diggory was a fifth year and a lot bigger than Harry. Seekers were usually light and speedy, but Diggory's weight would be an advantage in this weather because he was less likely to be blown off course.
Should make him a 6th year in GoF shouldn't it?
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Czarina II - Aug 10, 2004 1:20 pm (#173 of 298)
True, but I think JKR intended for him to be a seventh-year. I seemed to read "sixth" instead of "fifth" in PoA. Perhaps I read too fast, but is it possible that it was just a typo? (I'd put this on the Cedric thread, but methinks it just got mulched.) Or perhaps Wood and Harry were mistaken? After all, after four years of Herbology with the Hufflepuffs, Harry still didn't know/remember Susan Bones's name!
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The One - Aug 10, 2004 2:25 pm (#174 of 298)
Open minded sceptic
GoF Chapther 20:
By the time Harry reached the bottom of the marble staircase, Cedric was at the top. He was with a load of sixth-year friends. Cedric's bag split. Parchment, quills, and books spilled out of it onto the floor. Several bottles of ink smashed. "Don't bother," said Cedric in an exasperated voice as his friends bent down to help him. "Tell Flitwick I'm coming, go on. .
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Archangel - Aug 12, 2004 1:08 am (#175 of 298)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Edited by Aug 12, 2004 1:11 am
Harry's OWL grades...hmmmm... he aced DADA not doubt about that so that's an automatic O. The rest would probably either E or A. He would be surprised with his Potions grade because it'll be an E. Snape will take him in his NEWT class anyways (and all those who got E's actually) because he'll only have Hermione as a student and I don't think they'd exactly be doing cartwheels when that happens.
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Quidam - Aug 21, 2004 6:55 am (#176 of 298)
HARRY'S RESULTS
Astronomy: A (between his theory and what he completed of the prac I think he'll scrape a pass)
Charms: E
COMC: O
DADA: O
Divination: P
Herbology: E
History of Magic: A or P depending on how much of the paper he filled in.
Potions: E
Transfiguration: E
I'm guessing that Ron's results will be similar to Harry's, and Hermione will get mostly O's with a couple of E's (probably in Astronomy and Ancient Runes)
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Maddest Dragon - Aug 22, 2004 12:31 am (#177 of 298)
Harry definitely has an O in DADA. An O-plus if such a thing exists.
He definitely hasn't passed History of Magic or Divination.
If he's passed Astronomy, it's because they took the distraction during the practical into account. Still, since it was a class he and Ron had struggled with, and he didn't need it for becoming an Auror, he might not have done terribly well in the written exam, either. I predict he will not be continuing with it, no matter what grade he gets.
He probably got an O in Care of Magical Creatures, and an E in Herbology (I think the grading is MUCH tougher than many people on this thread seem to think, and the fanged geranium bite kept him from getting an O, unless he did extremely well on the written test).
E's in both Transfiguration and Charms.
Potions is a tough guess. I don't see how Harry could've possibly gotten an O, although he probably has passed. But he's bound to be in N.E.W.T. potions, because how else would we see as much as we need to of Snape in the next two books? Not to mention Harry becoming an Auror, which I'm convinced is going to happen. Snape lowering his standards is the obvious solution, but I really, really, REALLY don't see Snape doing that. Even if it meant Hermione being his only student or Draco not getting in. I think Harry got either an A or an E in Potions.
I agree with Quidam that Ron will have similar results, and that Hermione will get mostly O's and E's. Only I think Hermione will get one or two A's, and she'll be upset about it.
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Archangel - Aug 22, 2004 7:05 pm (#178 of 298)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
I disagree Maddest Dragon, I don't think Ron will get similar results -- IMHO, I think Ron will probably get lower grades.
Hermione will have to be carted to St. Mungo's if she gets an A in any subject. Given her high standards, anything below an O might be construed as a failure.
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Moony Lupin - Aug 22, 2004 8:12 pm (#179 of 298)
I think Harry could very well get an O in potions. Mainly because the examiners will be grading him based on his OWL performance and comparing it with his performance evaluation of the first 5 years given to them by Snape. And we all know what Snape thinks of Harry's performance. As for the other subjects I predict Harry getting O's in DADA, Charms, COMC, EE's in Transfiguration , herbology, A's in astronomy and divination and a P in History of magic.
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Maddest Dragon - Aug 22, 2004 8:35 pm (#180 of 298)
Moony Lupin, how do you know that the examiners compare O.W.L. performance with performance evaluations by the teachers? I don't remember anything like that being mentioned in the books.
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Solitaire - Aug 22, 2004 9:33 pm (#181 of 298)
I didn't read many of the other posts, so please forgive me if I repeat someone.
Regarding specific "groups" of kids who were tested ...
Weren't Harry's group in the Astronomy tower when the fracas was going on with Hagrid and McGonagall? I wonder if everyone will be given a bit of "grace" there, given the situation. Even the examiners were shocked at what happened.
I would LOVE to see every one of the DA kids totally wipe the floor with the rest of the school in their DADA O.W.L.s. and N.E.W.T.s. What's more, I would like Dumbledore to mention their spectacular performances at the welcoming feast. I would also like Harry and Neville to receive some special mention for exceptional performances. (Don't want much, do I?)
About the individual kids & other subjects ...
I think Hermione will probably receive all O's ... well, maybe one E just so she can enjoy a bit of recrimination and melodrama for not having studied harder.
I figure Ron and Harry will probably score similarly in most of their other classes--hopefully an O in CoMC, E's and A's in Potions, Charms, History of Magic, and Transfiguration; unfortunately a couple of P's elsewhere. Ron did have problems with Divination (seeing the examiner's nose wart in the crystal ball) and charms (the plate/mushroom incident). Harry had his own problems elsewhere, as well.
I would really like to see Neville get an O in herbology and an O or E in potions. That would just KILL Snape! I hope he gets A's & E's on everything else. Just for fun, I'd like to learn that Griselda Marchbanks sent an owl to Gran praising Neville's unexpected proficiency in the OWLs. I think that would be super!
I know I shouldn't say this, but I would love to see Draco receive a P in Charms and a D or T in CoMC. I can't wait to see how many OWLs Crabbe and Goyle get. (I wonder if they can even spell O-W-L.)
Solitaire
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NZ Morgan - Aug 22, 2004 9:34 pm (#182 of 298)
crazy potter fan
Hmmm Harrys OWL grades?
O for DADA.
O or E for Charms i'm not sure which.
E and no higher for Transfiguration.
A for Potions.
I have no idea how the examiners are going to grade his other performances.
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Maddest Dragon - Aug 22, 2004 9:56 pm (#183 of 298)
I would love to see Draco receive a P in Charms and a D or T in CoMC - Solitaire
Love that! Better yet: a D or T in Potions (okay, even a P will do). Because he's Snape's favorite, Snape has been inflating his grades (I suspect), and will be SHOCKED when he doesn't pass Potions, let alone qualify for the N.E.W.T. Love to see the look on Snape's face when he finds out!
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Solitaire - Aug 22, 2004 10:05 pm (#184 of 298)
LOL Maddest Dragon! I like YOUR idea even better! Lucius's head would probably explode, and Draco would whine that Harry had used a befuddlement charm on the examiner!
And while we're at it, wouldn't you just LOVE to know what kind of grade reports (both in general and on their O.W.L.s) Goyle and Crabbe get in potions? I mean those two really do seem a few sandwiches short of a picnic. If they show up in N.E.W.T. level potions, I'll know someone is padding the gradebook!
Solitaire
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Fawkes - Aug 24, 2004 9:50 am (#185 of 298)
I am FIRMLY against Harry getting an E or an A in potions and then Snape being made to accept him. That shows that Harry is favored [causes MUCH resentment among other students], that he doesnt have to follow the rules [which Snape has been saying all along], and that he doesn't have to work hard, because Dumbledore will hand what he needs to him on another platter.
Those of you in school - how would you feel if you weren't accepted into the highest class for not getting a high enough mark, but your mate was? wouldn't you be angry? You can't run a school like that.
I see only two options here, the first being that Harry gets an O in Potions, so he can be in the NEWT level class. Otherwise, I don't think it unheard of that if Harry does NOT get an O, Snape will be shifted to the DADA position [now open again] and the new teacher will allow Harry in his class with whatever grade he gets.
Charms: E Transfiguration: O Potions: O Defense Against the Dark Arts: O Astronomy: A Care of Magical Creatures: A [Hagrid wasn't..the best teacher, after all] Divination: A Herbology: E History of Magic: P, maybe an A depending on the amount of questions
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RuthJ - Aug 24, 2004 10:51 am (#186 of 298)
I agree, Fawkes: Harry getting into NEWT Potions without an O will only prove everything Snape has said for the last five years; that Harry expects and gets special treatment, and that Harry's fame, not his own intellect, is responsible for his achievements.
It would be a real shame if Snape became the new DADA professor; it's the one subject Harry excels at and enjoys (and I really think the character described behind the door on JKR's website is the new DADA prof!).
And the last thing Harry needs is more resentment from classmates. I'm really hoping he'll get through his sixth year without being scorned and ostracized by the wizarding world.
Many posts here have Harry passing most, if not all, of his classes. But he really isn't an outstanding student; between mediocre & above-average. I predict he'll fail Divination and History of Magic, and maybe Astronomy as well. Transfiguration & Charms: Es. DADA & Potions: Os. Herbology: A. Magical Creatures: E.
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TomProffitt - Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm (#187 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
I don't recall from earlier posts, and perhaps this goes on the Occlumency Legilimency thread: but,
Did anyone else get the idea that Harry was unintentionally performing legilimency on Parvati to get his History of Magic O.W.L. answers?
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Aud Duck - Aug 29, 2004 10:04 pm (#188 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
That never even occured to me, Tom. I'll have to go back and reread. But surely if he had been, he would have gotten more answers?
Ruth--I agree that people are inflating Harry's scores. We're operating on the principle that Harry should pass nearly everything, when it's obvious that just to pass them all is something that only people like Percy and Hermione manage. I don't see Harry getting more than 7 or 8 OWLs. If 12 is the max, he must fail about 4 exams. I think that when I predicted his grades earlier in this thread, I gave him 3 failed exams--9 OWLs, but that definitely feels like too many.
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Cuivienen - Aug 30, 2004 3:52 pm (#189 of 298)
We don't know how smart Parvati is... Maybe she was struggling just as much as him. Remember, everyone dozes off in History of Magic (the class, not the test), not just Harry and Ron.
Potions - E Transfiguration - E Charms - E CoMC - O DADA - O Divination - A History of Magic - D Herbology - E Astronomy - A
Yes, I know, it's a bit optimistic, but still... I also think Snape will be forced to let, not only Harry, but also all E's into Potions because Hermione (or perhaps Hermione and Neville for some irony!)will be the only O in the whole year.
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RuthJ - Aug 30, 2004 5:19 pm (#190 of 298)
Am I right in thinking that to "get an OWL" means to just pass the test, with an A, E or O? At first I thought students had to get O's to get an OWL in the respective classes, but that would mean few students would get any OWLs at all.
Also, in order to get the maximum number of OWLs(12), Harry would have to take 12 classes, right? But he's only taking 9 classes: DADA, Potions, History of Magic, Astronomy, Divination, Transfiguration, Charms, Herbology, & CoMC. Hermione is taking one more class than Harry & Ron, so her max would be 10 OWLs. How could Percy have gotten 12 OWLs without taking classes as Hermione did in PoA, with a Timeturner?
Cuivienen--I like your idea that Snape will let in all students into NEWT Potions who've received E's. Potions is such a difficult class, especially with Snape as the teacher, that if he only lets students with O's into NEWT Potions, there'd probably be only 4 or 5 students in the class.
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Leila 2X4B - Aug 30, 2004 7:21 pm (#191 of 298)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Perhaps you can get an OWL in sportsmanship and leadership, etc.
Some schools have grades for them on their report cards.
Leila
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Aud Duck - Sep 4, 2004 11:37 am (#192 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
Maybe you get an OWL for unusually good work. So P and D would fail, A would be a neutral grade, and O or E would earn an OWL. Of course, that still leaves the problem of a maximum of 9 OWLs for Harry and Ron and 10 for Hermione.
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 4, 2004 1:29 pm (#193 of 298)
A is a passing grade. Hermione says so when they first metion the O.W.L. grades. But some professors set the standards higher when deciding who to admit to their N.E.W.T. classes--McGonagall only accepts those with E's and O's; Snape only accepts those with O's. Other professors might also take students who've only made A's.
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Aud Duck - Sep 4, 2004 5:08 pm (#194 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
Well, an A is not excellent work, though, just adaquate. It wouldn't count against you because you passed, but it wouldn't earn any extra praise, either. I don't really think that's the way they do it because it seems a bit unfair. But it would explain why getting 12 OWLs is something extraordinary.
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Leila 2X4B - Sep 4, 2004 9:17 pm (#195 of 298)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
How about the fact that those who had recieved 12 O.W.L.s all were Prefects. They could have earned those preforming their duties well.
Leila
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Aud Duck - Sep 5, 2004 9:44 am (#196 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
It wouldn't really be fair not to give those students that aren't prefects the chance to earn 12 OWLs. Especially in Ravenclaw, there are bound to be lots of good students that don't really have the leadership qualities necessary to be prefects.
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 5, 2004 1:16 pm (#197 of 298)
The only explanation that makes any sense to me is that the written and the practical each count as one O.W.L. In that case, Percy passed both tests in six subjects--or seven subjects, if they included History of Magic, which only has a written test, and either Divination, which only seems to have a practical, or Ancient Runes, which seems to be only one exam (Hermione sat her Ancient Runes exam, but there's no mention of her going back for a practical). Personally, I see Percy doing extremely well in History of Magic--it's exactly the kind of dull, dry matter that he excels at--and probably not taking Divination--he's much too mundane. Since third through fifth years take eight or nine classes, Percy must've passed the O.W.L.s in all but one of his subjects.
The problem I have with that scenario is that, when McGonagall gives Harry career advice, she tells him that he'll need an O in Potions and at least an E in Transfiguration to take the N.E.W.T. classes. She says nothing at all about written versus practical. What happens if, say, he scores an E or O in the Transfiguration practical but only an A in the written, or vice versa? Also, Harry is a mediocre student, and yet I really only see him outright failing Divination, History of Magic, and Astronomy. That still leaves him about ten O.W.L.s. That may not be a record worthy of Percy or Hermione, but it's still very high.
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Aud Duck - Sep 5, 2004 8:25 pm (#198 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I think JKR said in the Book Festival questions that 12 was the maximum number of OWLs. Of course, she was answering off the top of her head, so it might be a bit off. So maybe the exams for Potions, Transfiguration, and Charms are split. That would give all but Hermione a maximum of 12 OWLs(I think). Perhaps, though she doesn't have a time turner anymore, Hermione is still taking more classes than usual and could be the first student in years to get 13 OWLs.
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Czarina II - Sep 9, 2004 7:18 pm (#199 of 298)
Ah, definitely. Hermione should get 13 OWLs. One will be an E, though, just to annoy her. ;-)
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haymoni - Sep 10, 2004 6:50 am (#200 of 298)
I asked this before but nobody responded.
Why does Harry have to wait until July to get his results?
Didn't we know that Percy had done well on his NEWTs and that the Twins had scraped by with a handful of owls at the end of POA?
Or was it the beginning of GOF?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Harry: Transfiguration: E or O Charms: E or O DADA: O Divination: T, D, P, or A Astronomy: P, A, or E Potions: probably O because he needs to be an Auror History of Magic: T, D, or P
Ron: Trans.: anything but O or E Charms: anything but O or E DADA: O or E Divination: O Astronomy: D, P, or A Potions: anything but O or E H. of M.: T or D
Hermione: Everything: O or E
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potterfan79 - Jul 18, 2004 4:58 pm (#152 of 298)
Harry
Charms: E, but not O because he got mixed up on something
Transfiguration: E if not O
Herbology: E possibly even O
DADA: O of course
Potions: maybe E but I don't think O. Unfortunately McGonagal said Snape doesn't accept anyone below O status in his NEWT Potions classes in Harry's career advice discussion. However, I think I read somewhere that Harry will be continuing potions in 6th year so I wonder if Harry didn't get an O how he will manage continuing the subject in 6th year. Does anyone know anything about this?
CMC: O
Astronomy: A maybe and E though I doubt it because he left a third of his chart blank
Divination: P maybe D
HoM: P because he barely filled anything out. The only way I can see him passing that exam is if somehow he was able to complete it subconsiously while having his premonition about Sirius though I doubt that's the case.
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Lars Smedberg - Jul 19, 2004 12:52 am (#153 of 298)
Well, as I said, I believe Snape has to lower his expectations. Maybe because nobody (except for Hermione...) has an O in "Potions"...?
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mrweasley - Jul 19, 2004 12:17 pm (#154 of 298)
I'm sorry, but...
I don't think it is very probable that Harry achieved an O in Potions. Apart from the question about Polyjuice Potion, "he found the written paper difficult" (OotP, p. 631)and felt lucky at the end of the practical that "he had, with luck, avoided a fail." (632)
I think that Harry will still be able go take Potion NEWT classes, because of the new potions teacher. After all, that job is vacant, with Snape taking over DADA in book 6 and 7... :-)
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Chris. - Jul 19, 2004 1:01 pm (#155 of 298)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
My predictions:
Potions- Probably E, but perhaps an O.
Transfiguration- E
Charms- E
History of Magic- A
Herbology- E, if not O
Care of Magic Creatures- O
Divination- A
Astronomy- A
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Cuivienen - Jul 19, 2004 6:50 pm (#156 of 298)
I'm theorizing a division of Theoretical and Practical tests here for the major classes, so:
Astronomy - A Examination scores cancelled. Students may retake the examination.
Divination - A
History of Magic - D Retest permitted and advised due to circumstances.
Care of Magical Creatures - O
Potions
(T) - E
(P) - O
Transfiguration
(T) - E
(P) - E
Charms
(T) - E
(P) - E
Defense Against the Dark Arts
(T) - O
(P) - O With Honors
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Mundane Madness - Jul 20, 2004 9:18 am (#157 of 298)
I need to point out that Harry does get into NEWT potions, so he needs to get an O. Snape said he does not accept people into NEWTs without an O. I also think eh got e and a every where else expect Divination, a P, and History of MAgic, without Hermione's help, a P.
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Aud Duck - Jul 25, 2004 1:45 pm (#158 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
My predictions: DADA: O Potions: O (I really don't think Harry's auror dream will be killed so soon, although he might get an E if, as others have suggested, Snape has to lower his standards. I know Harry didn't feel that good about it, but I, personally, have found that I often do well when I thought I hadn't. Plus, Snape was grading their essays to OWL level at the beginning of the year. He's probably got higher expectations than the ministry.) Transfiguration: O or E. I can't decide. Charms: E Astronomy: D (Unless they curve the grades) Herbology: A or E Care of Magical Creatures: O (He felt good about the test and he studied hard for Hagrid's sake) Divination: D History of Magic: D
I have a grading dilemma, though. If you take the maximum courseload (minus a timeturner), you can't get more than 10 OWLs. But if you split the grades for DADA, Potions, Transfiguration, Charms, and Astronomy, my predictions leave Harry with 12 OWLs, and I can't see him getting grades that are obviously considered excellent. I would guess that a student like Harry would end up with more like 7 or 8 OWLs. The only solution I can see is that you don't get an OWL for just a pass, you have to get E or O. With my predictions, this would leave Harry with 8 OWLs, which strikes me as plausible. The problem is that it doesn't seem likely that the tests would be graded that way. Any suggestions?
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Amilia Smith - Jul 27, 2004 2:15 pm (#159 of 298)
We all seem to be having this trouble. I don't think we will know for sure how the grading works until HBP comes out. Some interesting ideas I have read here and elsewhere are as follows:
1) Percy, Bill and Crouch Jr. did have timeturners, but somehow were able to handle the work load better than Hermione did. They did not have to worry about escaped murders stalking their best friend or try to prepare for a hippogriff trial. Or maybe they just didn't put as much effort into their homework. Hermione got over 300% in her Muggle Studies class; you don't need to work that hard to pass.
2) The grades are split, but Percy & co. did not pass all of them.
3) The grades are split for the more important classes (Transfiguration, Potions, Charms, DADA), but not for others (History, Herbology, CoMC).
Personally, I am leaning towards #1, but like I said, it's anybody's guess.
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Brent Sloan - Jul 27, 2004 3:15 pm (#160 of 298)
Here’s what I am predicting for Harry:
Astronomy - P ; Charms - E ; Herbology - A ; History of Magic – D ; Potions - O ; Transfiguration - E ; Care of Magical Creatures - O ; DADA – O + ; Divination – A ;
7 OWLs (Assuming A and above count as an OWL)
I had a teacher give me an A+ once. It didn't count as anything more than an A academically speaking but it was a nice gesture to say I did above and beyond. I would like to see Harry get an O+ in DADA just to make Hermione indignant and impressed at the same time
I have another thought for a possible outcome concerning how the Astronomy exam was interrupted. The grades would stand as they are but an OWL would be given for P and above. *shrugs* just a thought
Too bad Hermione couldn't have sat in on another exam, say Muggle Studies and pulled another OWL.
By the way, they don't have summer studies after taking their OWL eams do they?
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Amilia Smith - Aug 1, 2004 3:51 pm (#161 of 298)
I don't think they have summer studies, because they don't know what classes they will be taking next year. NEWT classes are determined, at least partially, by OWL grades, which the students don't have yet.
I have a question that doesn't have to do with Harry's OWLs, but it does refer to a conversation going on a while back on this thread, and I don't know where else to ask it. In post #124, Padfoot asked if OWLs and NEWTs would have been cancelled along with the rest of end of year tests in COS. The general consensus seemed to be that, no, they wouldn't be cancelled, 5th and 7th years still had exams. But what about GOF? School champions are exempt from end of year exams. This is all well and good for 4th year Harry, but don't Fluer, Cedric and Krum still have to sit NEWTs?
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TomProffitt - Aug 1, 2004 6:23 pm (#162 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
No to all three taking NEWTS, one Frenchwoman, one Bulgarian, and one dead. Although I assume Cedric was planning on taking his NEWTs anyway, rather than have to repeat a year at school.
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Amilia Smith - Aug 1, 2004 8:14 pm (#163 of 298)
Surely the French and Bulgarians have some sort of equivilant?
And when DD announced that champions were exempt from exams, nobody was dead yet. He wouldn't have been planning on Cedric dying and not needing NEWTs.
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ex-FAHgeek - Aug 2, 2004 6:48 am (#164 of 298)
---quote--- This is all well and good for 4th year Harry, but don't Fluer, Cedric and Krum still have to sit NEWTs? ---end quote---
Well, Cedric was only a 6th year, so it wouldn't have mattered for him either.
Mlle. Delacour and Mr. Krum don't take NEWTs, although there may very well have been an equivalent exam for their own schools. We don't know whether Beauxbatons and Durmstrang cancelled their exams.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 2, 2004 7:17 am (#165 of 298)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
One of the things that just makes you wonder...Beauxbatons and Durmstrang students, did they even have lessons that year, and would Madam Maxine and Karloff have taught them All subjects if they did. Or did they just sit around, unseen, except of meals and challenges because they have no other useful contribution to the plot? In other words, just a moot point?
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ex-FAHgeek - Aug 2, 2004 7:33 am (#166 of 298)
---quote--- Beauxbatons and Durmstrang students, did they even have lessons that year, and would Madam Maxine and Karloff have taught them All subjects if they did. ---end quote---
I assumed that Olympe and Igor were doing specialized tutoring with the students they brought, at least Olympe (Viktor's later comments about Karkaroff letting the students do all the work on the ship makes me wonder if they were stuck with some sort of "independent study" instead of formal lessons...) However, I can't imagine Olympe allowing her students to remain idle.
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Amilia Smith - Aug 2, 2004 1:07 pm (#167 of 298)
I just assumed they were like exchange students and went to class with Hogwarts students. We just never see them in class because none of them would be in with the 4th years.
BTW, thanks all for your input. This question has really been bugging me.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 2, 2004 2:24 pm (#168 of 298)
I think they said the foreign students returned to their schools after the selection...
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Czarina II - Aug 2, 2004 7:44 pm (#169 of 298)
I thought Cedric was a seventh-year.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 2, 2004 8:01 pm (#170 of 298)
He was.
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Czarina II - Aug 3, 2004 9:40 am (#171 of 298)
Good, I'm not as crazy as I thought. :-)
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The One - Aug 10, 2004 11:04 am (#172 of 298)
Open minded sceptic
Good, I'm not as crazy as I thought. :-)
Sure? :-)
PoA, chapter 17
Wood had pointed out Cedric Diggory to him in the corridor; Diggory was a fifth year and a lot bigger than Harry. Seekers were usually light and speedy, but Diggory's weight would be an advantage in this weather because he was less likely to be blown off course.
Should make him a 6th year in GoF shouldn't it?
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Czarina II - Aug 10, 2004 1:20 pm (#173 of 298)
True, but I think JKR intended for him to be a seventh-year. I seemed to read "sixth" instead of "fifth" in PoA. Perhaps I read too fast, but is it possible that it was just a typo? (I'd put this on the Cedric thread, but methinks it just got mulched.) Or perhaps Wood and Harry were mistaken? After all, after four years of Herbology with the Hufflepuffs, Harry still didn't know/remember Susan Bones's name!
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The One - Aug 10, 2004 2:25 pm (#174 of 298)
Open minded sceptic
GoF Chapther 20:
By the time Harry reached the bottom of the marble staircase, Cedric was at the top. He was with a load of sixth-year friends.
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Archangel - Aug 12, 2004 1:08 am (#175 of 298)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Edited by Aug 12, 2004 1:11 am
Harry's OWL grades...hmmmm... he aced DADA not doubt about that so that's an automatic O. The rest would probably either E or A. He would be surprised with his Potions grade because it'll be an E. Snape will take him in his NEWT class anyways (and all those who got E's actually) because he'll only have Hermione as a student and I don't think they'd exactly be doing cartwheels when that happens.
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Quidam - Aug 21, 2004 6:55 am (#176 of 298)
HARRY'S RESULTS
Astronomy: A (between his theory and what he completed of the prac I think he'll scrape a pass)
Charms: E
COMC: O
DADA: O
Divination: P
Herbology: E
History of Magic: A or P depending on how much of the paper he filled in.
Potions: E
Transfiguration: E
I'm guessing that Ron's results will be similar to Harry's, and Hermione will get mostly O's with a couple of E's (probably in Astronomy and Ancient Runes)
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Maddest Dragon - Aug 22, 2004 12:31 am (#177 of 298)
Harry definitely has an O in DADA. An O-plus if such a thing exists.
He definitely hasn't passed History of Magic or Divination.
If he's passed Astronomy, it's because they took the distraction during the practical into account. Still, since it was a class he and Ron had struggled with, and he didn't need it for becoming an Auror, he might not have done terribly well in the written exam, either. I predict he will not be continuing with it, no matter what grade he gets.
He probably got an O in Care of Magical Creatures, and an E in Herbology (I think the grading is MUCH tougher than many people on this thread seem to think, and the fanged geranium bite kept him from getting an O, unless he did extremely well on the written test).
E's in both Transfiguration and Charms.
Potions is a tough guess. I don't see how Harry could've possibly gotten an O, although he probably has passed. But he's bound to be in N.E.W.T. potions, because how else would we see as much as we need to of Snape in the next two books? Not to mention Harry becoming an Auror, which I'm convinced is going to happen. Snape lowering his standards is the obvious solution, but I really, really, REALLY don't see Snape doing that. Even if it meant Hermione being his only student or Draco not getting in. I think Harry got either an A or an E in Potions.
I agree with Quidam that Ron will have similar results, and that Hermione will get mostly O's and E's. Only I think Hermione will get one or two A's, and she'll be upset about it.
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Archangel - Aug 22, 2004 7:05 pm (#178 of 298)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
I disagree Maddest Dragon, I don't think Ron will get similar results -- IMHO, I think Ron will probably get lower grades.
Hermione will have to be carted to St. Mungo's if she gets an A in any subject. Given her high standards, anything below an O might be construed as a failure. - - - - - - - - - -
Moony Lupin - Aug 22, 2004 8:12 pm (#179 of 298)
I think Harry could very well get an O in potions. Mainly because the examiners will be grading him based on his OWL performance and comparing it with his performance evaluation of the first 5 years given to them by Snape. And we all know what Snape thinks of Harry's performance. As for the other subjects I predict Harry getting O's in DADA, Charms, COMC, EE's in Transfiguration , herbology, A's in astronomy and divination and a P in History of magic.
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Maddest Dragon - Aug 22, 2004 8:35 pm (#180 of 298)
Moony Lupin, how do you know that the examiners compare O.W.L. performance with performance evaluations by the teachers? I don't remember anything like that being mentioned in the books.
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Solitaire - Aug 22, 2004 9:33 pm (#181 of 298)
I didn't read many of the other posts, so please forgive me if I repeat someone.
Regarding specific "groups" of kids who were tested ...
Weren't Harry's group in the Astronomy tower when the fracas was going on with Hagrid and McGonagall? I wonder if everyone will be given a bit of "grace" there, given the situation. Even the examiners were shocked at what happened.
I would LOVE to see every one of the DA kids totally wipe the floor with the rest of the school in their DADA O.W.L.s. and N.E.W.T.s. What's more, I would like Dumbledore to mention their spectacular performances at the welcoming feast. I would also like Harry and Neville to receive some special mention for exceptional performances. (Don't want much, do I?)
About the individual kids & other subjects ...
I think Hermione will probably receive all O's ... well, maybe one E just so she can enjoy a bit of recrimination and melodrama for not having studied harder.
I figure Ron and Harry will probably score similarly in most of their other classes--hopefully an O in CoMC, E's and A's in Potions, Charms, History of Magic, and Transfiguration; unfortunately a couple of P's elsewhere. Ron did have problems with Divination (seeing the examiner's nose wart in the crystal ball) and charms (the plate/mushroom incident). Harry had his own problems elsewhere, as well.
I would really like to see Neville get an O in herbology and an O or E in potions. That would just KILL Snape! I hope he gets A's & E's on everything else. Just for fun, I'd like to learn that Griselda Marchbanks sent an owl to Gran praising Neville's unexpected proficiency in the OWLs. I think that would be super!
I know I shouldn't say this, but I would love to see Draco receive a P in Charms and a D or T in CoMC. I can't wait to see how many OWLs Crabbe and Goyle get. (I wonder if they can even spell O-W-L.)
Solitaire
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NZ Morgan - Aug 22, 2004 9:34 pm (#182 of 298)
crazy potter fan
Hmmm Harrys OWL grades?
O for DADA.
O or E for Charms i'm not sure which.
E and no higher for Transfiguration.
A for Potions.
I have no idea how the examiners are going to grade his other performances.
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Maddest Dragon - Aug 22, 2004 9:56 pm (#183 of 298)
I would love to see Draco receive a P in Charms and a D or T in CoMC - Solitaire
Love that! Better yet: a D or T in Potions (okay, even a P will do). Because he's Snape's favorite, Snape has been inflating his grades (I suspect), and will be SHOCKED when he doesn't pass Potions, let alone qualify for the N.E.W.T. Love to see the look on Snape's face when he finds out!
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Solitaire - Aug 22, 2004 10:05 pm (#184 of 298)
LOL Maddest Dragon! I like YOUR idea even better! Lucius's head would probably explode, and Draco would whine that Harry had used a befuddlement charm on the examiner!
And while we're at it, wouldn't you just LOVE to know what kind of grade reports (both in general and on their O.W.L.s) Goyle and Crabbe get in potions? I mean those two really do seem a few sandwiches short of a picnic. If they show up in N.E.W.T. level potions, I'll know someone is padding the gradebook!
Solitaire
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Fawkes - Aug 24, 2004 9:50 am (#185 of 298)
I am FIRMLY against Harry getting an E or an A in potions and then Snape being made to accept him. That shows that Harry is favored [causes MUCH resentment among other students], that he doesnt have to follow the rules [which Snape has been saying all along], and that he doesn't have to work hard, because Dumbledore will hand what he needs to him on another platter.
Those of you in school - how would you feel if you weren't accepted into the highest class for not getting a high enough mark, but your mate was? wouldn't you be angry? You can't run a school like that.
I see only two options here, the first being that Harry gets an O in Potions, so he can be in the NEWT level class. Otherwise, I don't think it unheard of that if Harry does NOT get an O, Snape will be shifted to the DADA position [now open again] and the new teacher will allow Harry in his class with whatever grade he gets.
Charms: E Transfiguration: O Potions: O Defense Against the Dark Arts: O Astronomy: A Care of Magical Creatures: A [Hagrid wasn't..the best teacher, after all] Divination: A Herbology: E History of Magic: P, maybe an A depending on the amount of questions
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RuthJ - Aug 24, 2004 10:51 am (#186 of 298)
I agree, Fawkes: Harry getting into NEWT Potions without an O will only prove everything Snape has said for the last five years; that Harry expects and gets special treatment, and that Harry's fame, not his own intellect, is responsible for his achievements.
It would be a real shame if Snape became the new DADA professor; it's the one subject Harry excels at and enjoys (and I really think the character described behind the door on JKR's website is the new DADA prof!).
And the last thing Harry needs is more resentment from classmates. I'm really hoping he'll get through his sixth year without being scorned and ostracized by the wizarding world.
Many posts here have Harry passing most, if not all, of his classes. But he really isn't an outstanding student; between mediocre & above-average. I predict he'll fail Divination and History of Magic, and maybe Astronomy as well. Transfiguration & Charms: Es. DADA & Potions: Os. Herbology: A. Magical Creatures: E.
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TomProffitt - Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm (#187 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
I don't recall from earlier posts, and perhaps this goes on the Occlumency Legilimency thread: but,
Did anyone else get the idea that Harry was unintentionally performing legilimency on Parvati to get his History of Magic O.W.L. answers?
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Aud Duck - Aug 29, 2004 10:04 pm (#188 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
That never even occured to me, Tom. I'll have to go back and reread. But surely if he had been, he would have gotten more answers?
Ruth--I agree that people are inflating Harry's scores. We're operating on the principle that Harry should pass nearly everything, when it's obvious that just to pass them all is something that only people like Percy and Hermione manage. I don't see Harry getting more than 7 or 8 OWLs. If 12 is the max, he must fail about 4 exams. I think that when I predicted his grades earlier in this thread, I gave him 3 failed exams--9 OWLs, but that definitely feels like too many.
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Cuivienen - Aug 30, 2004 3:52 pm (#189 of 298)
We don't know how smart Parvati is... Maybe she was struggling just as much as him. Remember, everyone dozes off in History of Magic (the class, not the test), not just Harry and Ron.
Potions - E Transfiguration - E Charms - E CoMC - O DADA - O Divination - A History of Magic - D Herbology - E Astronomy - A
Yes, I know, it's a bit optimistic, but still... I also think Snape will be forced to let, not only Harry, but also all E's into Potions because Hermione (or perhaps Hermione and Neville for some irony!)will be the only O in the whole year.
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RuthJ - Aug 30, 2004 5:19 pm (#190 of 298)
Am I right in thinking that to "get an OWL" means to just pass the test, with an A, E or O? At first I thought students had to get O's to get an OWL in the respective classes, but that would mean few students would get any OWLs at all.
Also, in order to get the maximum number of OWLs(12), Harry would have to take 12 classes, right? But he's only taking 9 classes: DADA, Potions, History of Magic, Astronomy, Divination, Transfiguration, Charms, Herbology, & CoMC. Hermione is taking one more class than Harry & Ron, so her max would be 10 OWLs. How could Percy have gotten 12 OWLs without taking classes as Hermione did in PoA, with a Timeturner?
Cuivienen--I like your idea that Snape will let in all students into NEWT Potions who've received E's. Potions is such a difficult class, especially with Snape as the teacher, that if he only lets students with O's into NEWT Potions, there'd probably be only 4 or 5 students in the class.
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Leila 2X4B - Aug 30, 2004 7:21 pm (#191 of 298)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Perhaps you can get an OWL in sportsmanship and leadership, etc.
Some schools have grades for them on their report cards.
Leila
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Aud Duck - Sep 4, 2004 11:37 am (#192 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
Maybe you get an OWL for unusually good work. So P and D would fail, A would be a neutral grade, and O or E would earn an OWL. Of course, that still leaves the problem of a maximum of 9 OWLs for Harry and Ron and 10 for Hermione.
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 4, 2004 1:29 pm (#193 of 298)
A is a passing grade. Hermione says so when they first metion the O.W.L. grades. But some professors set the standards higher when deciding who to admit to their N.E.W.T. classes--McGonagall only accepts those with E's and O's; Snape only accepts those with O's. Other professors might also take students who've only made A's.
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Aud Duck - Sep 4, 2004 5:08 pm (#194 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
Well, an A is not excellent work, though, just adaquate. It wouldn't count against you because you passed, but it wouldn't earn any extra praise, either. I don't really think that's the way they do it because it seems a bit unfair. But it would explain why getting 12 OWLs is something extraordinary.
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Leila 2X4B - Sep 4, 2004 9:17 pm (#195 of 298)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
How about the fact that those who had recieved 12 O.W.L.s all were Prefects. They could have earned those preforming their duties well.
Leila
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Aud Duck - Sep 5, 2004 9:44 am (#196 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
It wouldn't really be fair not to give those students that aren't prefects the chance to earn 12 OWLs. Especially in Ravenclaw, there are bound to be lots of good students that don't really have the leadership qualities necessary to be prefects.
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 5, 2004 1:16 pm (#197 of 298)
The only explanation that makes any sense to me is that the written and the practical each count as one O.W.L. In that case, Percy passed both tests in six subjects--or seven subjects, if they included History of Magic, which only has a written test, and either Divination, which only seems to have a practical, or Ancient Runes, which seems to be only one exam (Hermione sat her Ancient Runes exam, but there's no mention of her going back for a practical). Personally, I see Percy doing extremely well in History of Magic--it's exactly the kind of dull, dry matter that he excels at--and probably not taking Divination--he's much too mundane. Since third through fifth years take eight or nine classes, Percy must've passed the O.W.L.s in all but one of his subjects.
The problem I have with that scenario is that, when McGonagall gives Harry career advice, she tells him that he'll need an O in Potions and at least an E in Transfiguration to take the N.E.W.T. classes. She says nothing at all about written versus practical. What happens if, say, he scores an E or O in the Transfiguration practical but only an A in the written, or vice versa? Also, Harry is a mediocre student, and yet I really only see him outright failing Divination, History of Magic, and Astronomy. That still leaves him about ten O.W.L.s. That may not be a record worthy of Percy or Hermione, but it's still very high.
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Aud Duck - Sep 5, 2004 8:25 pm (#198 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I think JKR said in the Book Festival questions that 12 was the maximum number of OWLs. Of course, she was answering off the top of her head, so it might be a bit off. So maybe the exams for Potions, Transfiguration, and Charms are split. That would give all but Hermione a maximum of 12 OWLs(I think). Perhaps, though she doesn't have a time turner anymore, Hermione is still taking more classes than usual and could be the first student in years to get 13 OWLs.
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Czarina II - Sep 9, 2004 7:18 pm (#199 of 298)
Ah, definitely. Hermione should get 13 OWLs. One will be an E, though, just to annoy her. ;-)
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haymoni - Sep 10, 2004 6:50 am (#200 of 298)
I asked this before but nobody responded.
Why does Harry have to wait until July to get his results?
Didn't we know that Percy had done well on his NEWTs and that the Twins had scraped by with a handful of owls at the end of POA?
Or was it the beginning of GOF?
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Predictions for Harry’s OWLs grades (Post 201 to 250)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 2:33 am
The One - Sep 10, 2004 7:29 am (#201 of 298)
Open minded sceptic
Changed rules due to new headmaster or other circumstanse? Error by JKR?
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Czarina II - Sep 10, 2004 7:30 am (#202 of 298)
I don't see why everyone is confused. The examinations' office is taking a bit longer this year than two years earlier. I don't know about Britain or the U.S., but in my high school, lots of things changed from year to year. Something would go wrong, a deadline would be altered, a holiday like Easter would get in the way because it moves, etc. A large event that causes widespread chaos is even worse. For instance, there was a strike at our university last year, for instance, which luckily didn't have that big of an effect on the end of year because it was resolved early enough. Still, not everything took place at its usual time.
At the end of PoA, the escape of Sirius Black wouldn't have affected the Examinations' Office at all. Sure, the Ministry was busy, but that has nothing to do with education other than to increase security at Hogwarts. The Dementors left once Sirius Black did, anyhow. At the end of OoP, the publicized return of Voldemort in the MINISTRY OFFICES, no less, would have thrown the entire wizarding world into turmoil. Now, this happened after the OWLs took place, but this turn of events could push the results arriving even later.
The most reasonable explanation is that something internal at the Ministry was responsible for the delay of results. Perhaps one of the examiners was going on holiday. Perhaps they decided that it would be better that students' results were not publicized at school until the following year. Of course, maybe it is all a mere typo.
I thought that we didn't hear about the twins' results until the beginning of GoF, which is why Molly reacted so harshly toward them.
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haymoni - Sep 10, 2004 7:44 am (#203 of 298)
I thought Molly brought it up in an argument in GOF but I seem to recall the information was first presented in a narrative paragraph.
Sorry - no books here at work!
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Amilia Smith - Sep 10, 2004 10:59 am (#204 of 298)
PoA, ch 22, "Owl Post Again," p.430, Scholastic:
"Percy had got his top-grade N.E.W.T.s; Fred and George had scraped a handful of O.W.L.s each."
GoF, ch 6, "The Portkey," p.69, Scholastic:
"'Oh a fine way to spend six months!' she [Molly] shrieked. 'No wonder you didn't get more O.W.L.s!'"
OotP, ch 12, "Professor Umbridge," p.227, Scholastic:
"'Yeah... you got, what was it, three O.W.L.s each?' said Ron."
I don't know the answer as to why Percy, Fred, and George got their results before the end of the school year. It may be Voldemort's return slowed the examiners down, but Prof. McGonagall told the kids before their exams that they wouldn't be getting their results until July. (OotP, ch 31, "O.W.L.s," p.709, Scholastic) This was before the MoM was admitting to Voldie's return. (However, I do like the explanation that things change from year to year, and there doesn't nessisarily need to be a discrepancy between what happened in PoA and OotP.)
My first thought was that maybe you get your NEWT results before the end of term as you will need them for job-hunting purposes, but since OWLs just affect what classes you take next year, you have to wait. In this senerio, Fred and George would only be guessing as to what their grades were, or doing some unfounded bragging to Ron and Harry about how many OWLs they thought they got. However, when I looked up the quote, it does not seem to point in this direction.
I hope the quotes help, even if I was not able to add anything constructive to the discussion.
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haymoni - Sep 10, 2004 11:07 am (#205 of 298)
Thanks for the quotes, Amelia.
Didn't know if I had found a "Flint" or if it was purely a bureaucratic error.
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TomProffitt - Sep 10, 2004 1:16 pm (#206 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
I'd say it has a lot to do with changing headmasters in the middle of the school year.
Umbridge was only going to be efficient in what mattered to her and not what mattered to the students and their parents.
Now that Dumbledore is back it could change things for the better, or perhaps slow things down even more.
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Natasha - Sep 11, 2004 2:24 am (#207 of 298)
Czarina, the shake-up in the Ministry happened after McGonagal told them that they would receive their results in July
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Aud Duck - Sep 11, 2004 2:05 pm (#208 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I think it was just artistic liscence on JKR's part. Telling us all of that at the end of PoA concluded the book's story neatly. it tied up all of the loose ends, so to speak. But, at the end of OotP, there is tons going on. Nothing is concluded. The last chapter, after all, is entitled something like "The Second War Begins." Maybe she wanted to stretch everything's conclusion until the next book. Or maybe she didn't want to disrupt the tone set by Sirius's death. (Personally, I think it would have been fine to say someting about how he'd gotten 10 OWLs, even managed the necessary "O" in Potions, and found he didn't even care, and how Hermione's constant fretting about her one E did, at least, keep his mind off Sirius.)
Or, maybe she just wanted to give us something else to theorize about until the release of the next book.
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Amilia Smith - Sep 11, 2004 9:17 pm (#209 of 298)
I'm with you, aud duck. Oh, the gymnastics we do to try to forget that this is an imaginary world with a creator free to use artistic license! Leaving Harry's grades open for speculation keeps us busy for a while. And I must say, that is one of the things I am looking forward to learning the most in HBP. Nevermind how Voldemort survived the rebounded AK, nevermind what happened to Wormtail, nevermind who has a relationship with who, I want to know if Harry passed his tests!
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Murphy - Sep 26, 2004 9:57 pm (#210 of 298)
Also, I don't know if this has been brought up already, but do we know for sure that Snape won't be the new DADA teacher? That would leave a new professor in Potions, who very well may have lower standards for his students.
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Good Evans - Sep 27, 2004 12:41 pm (#211 of 298)
Practically perfect in every way
OK - to link this in with the shortest stay thread ....
assumed grades: History of Magic - P Potions : A Transfiguration : E DADA : O Divination : E COMC : O Astronomy : P Charms : O
Therefore harry has to go to Summer School in order to "bump" up his grades in order to take NEWTS in his chosen subjects to help him on the path to Aurorship!!
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Tomoé - Sep 28, 2004 10:10 pm (#212 of 298)
Back in business
Maddest Dragon -> Because [Draco is] Snape's favorite, Snape has been inflating his grades (I suspect), and will be SHOCKED when he doesn't pass Potions, let alone qualify for the N.E.W.T. Love to see the look on Snape's face when he finds out!
He will be smirking. ^_^
TomProffitt - > Did anyone else get the idea that Harry was unintentionally performing legilimency on Parvati to get his History of Magic O.W.L. answers?
I get the idea Harry was unintentionally performing legilimency on Voldemort, or to be exact, Voldemort was feeding Harry with the information he wanted to strengthen the link between them.
Haymoni -> Why does Harry have to wait until July to get his results? Didn't we know that Percy had done well on his NEWTs and that the Twins had scraped by with a handful of owls at the end of PoA?
For Percy's OWL, there's no mention of result at the and of PS but there's a line in CoS : "[Percy's] exam result came the day before [Harry] did; twelve OLWs and he hardly gloated at all." (UK CoS ch.4 p.40) Which means he get his result in August. The twin's year would have been exceptionally fast.
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haymoni - Sep 29, 2004 11:00 am (#213 of 298)
Tomoe - I'm at work so I don't have my books with me.
I am almost positive that there is a line towards the end of POA that states the results of Percy's NEWTS and the Twins OWLS. It was before the train ride home.
Help me!!!
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Tomoé - Sep 29, 2004 12:42 pm (#214 of 298)
Back in business
Yes, for the twins OWLs and Percy's NEWTs, they had the results at the end of the term. But for Percy OWL, he didn't heard of anything before August. It seems to change from year to year, much be related with the moon or something. ^_^
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Muggle Doctor - Oct 8, 2004 12:11 am (#215 of 298)
"Exceeds Expectations:" it might depend on whose expectations you are exceeding...
As for Harry continuing with potions, the next external examination, the NEWT, is not until the end of Year Seven, and there is nothing said about who actually teaches you in between. It need not be Snape at all. And while Potions are said to be essential for Auror training, I wonder if this is not on a 'things you need to know' basis rather than a 'compulsory subject' basis. I would think that provided you knew it all, you would get through auror training OK.
Maybe with the second war starting, there will be a new career path - "Combat Auror" - where DADA skills count for EVERYTHING and everything else counts for nothing. In which case the only requirement will be an O in DADA.
I think it would be a crime for any serious members of the DA (i.e. probably not Marietta) to get anything less than an Exceed Expectations.
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TomProffitt - Oct 8, 2004 4:40 am (#216 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
I think the term "Combat Auror" would be redundant.
In time of conflict all of their skills become more important. Why would a Death Eater risk battle with an Auror if that Auror is too ignorant of potions to know an Energizing Elixir from a Disembowlment Draught?
Time of War is the worst time to skimp on the training requirements, it would only lead to dead trainees.
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Aud Duck - Oct 8, 2004 5:47 pm (#217 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I think that Harry will have to take Snape simply because we need to see some of Snape. If Harry didn't take Potions, we would miss all of that. I agree with Tom about there being a real need for Potions knowledge, but I nonetheless think that post-OWL education in Potions is more of a literary necessity that an actual one.
I don't think that Muggle Doctor was suggesting that you don't need to know about potions, simply that if you knew about potions, but had not taken the NEWT level classes, it might still be OK.
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TomProffitt - Oct 9, 2004 9:27 pm (#218 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
I think Harry will be ready to fight the Death Eaters without NEWT level potions. What I don't think will happen is the Ministry changing requirements for Aurors.
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Muggle Doctor - Oct 12, 2004 3:27 pm (#219 of 298)
I suppose what I was getting at is that at the moment, an Auror seems much closer (in skills, abilities and the nature of their mission) to, say, James Bond than John Rambo (or in Hermione's case, perhaps Ellen Ripley) - in an all-out fight, though (like the MoM battle), it is Rambo that you need.
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TomProffitt - Oct 12, 2004 8:25 pm (#220 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
Muggle Doc, I accept the argument that wizards can be very useful in the conflict with Lord Voldemort if they don't have full Auror training. Where I disagree is that I don't believe the ministry would consider them as equals to Aurors, it's like the difference between a regular infantryman and an Airborne Ranger.
I suspect people with such skills already exist in the regular Dept. of Magical Law Enforcement.
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Aud Duck - Oct 14, 2004 6:22 pm (#221 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
Well, I don't think they would be considered equal to the aurors, but the ministry is going to have to start hiring supplementary people, and to do that, they will have to relax their standards.
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TomProffitt - Oct 14, 2004 9:01 pm (#222 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
I guess my whole string of posts on this thread goes back to the "combat auror" suggestion.
Anyone who's ever been a "grunt," "dogface," or, "mudfoot," knows that there is no glory for the fighters in the trenches. The ones with the "relaxed standards" are the ones with the bad pay, worse work conditions, and not a good hope for getting home unscathed.
The ones out there slogging it out with the Death Eaters won't be "combat aurors," they'll be "those crude under-trained imbeciles that are giving the Ministry a bad name."
I was a grunt. I'm sure I'll like these people, I doubt the rest of the wizarding world will.
Oh, by the way. Harry will get the OWLs he needs for his NEWTs. I think he'll become a full auror.
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Miriam Huber - Oct 29, 2004 4:24 am (#223 of 298)
I am absolutely sure that Harry will not receive an "O" in his Potions exams and that this (and what following complications ever) will be part of the storyline. Why should JKR make Snape accept only O-students only to have the very unrealistic outcome that Harry HAS an O, if you understand what I am trying to say (sorry, my English is rusty as I am no native speaker and at the moment learning French full speed)? I think she is really cleverer than that. If she wanted Harry just to attend Snape-classes as before in book six, she would not have set that condition.
It is really unlikely for Harry to get an "O", first because he never, never had really good marks up until now in Potions and even if it was partly because of Snapes disklike, he did not do really well in classes, and on what reasons whatever: not learnt is not learnt. And the description of his exam give really no hint, too, that it would be an "O".
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JackO - Oct 29, 2004 4:55 am (#224 of 298)
I don't think Harry is very interested in Potions. He seems to like to DO something, not sit around and drop slices of precisely cut animal body parts into a cauldron. I think he is mostly determined not to fail in front of Snape.
That said, I think he'll get an "O" because he needs to be in NEWT level Potions. Not just for Auror training, but also because it's a very important branch of magic, and because the book just wouldn't be fun without a class with Snape. Not a good reason, I know, but whatever.
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Good Evans - Oct 29, 2004 12:27 pm (#225 of 298)
Practically perfect in every way
I'm not sure about potions, I thought that he would get maybe an A , but on rereading he does so much better without snape being on his case that an E or even and O is not out of possibility for Harry in that subject. Neville as well did much better as Snape was not present at the exam.
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Mrs Brisbee - Oct 29, 2004 1:09 pm (#226 of 298)
I don't think Harry got an O in potions either, though it did look like he might of got an E.
Several things might happen to allow Harry into Potions (it would be a sad thing to see him have to give up his dream to be an Auror). The Ministry hasn't been taking on Aurors for the past few years, and the Auror's might plead for Hogwarts to turn out more candidates so they can increase their ranks. This would allow Dumbledore to require Snape to lower his prerequisites. Or something could happen to Snape over the summer, and a substitute teacher with lower standards would start the term and by the time Snape returned it would be too late to kick Harry out of class.
For Harry's DADA OWL, I see him getting a grade above Outstanding. I base this on several things. First off, George mentioned "T", but then said it stood for "Troll". I think he was joking about what it stood for (do they really need three failing grades?) but there is an actual "T", and it's above Outstanding not below. Second, Harry looked like he was already scoring an O in DADA when he was offered the chance for an extra point--if he already had the highest grade, why? And third, in "Snape's Worst Memory," when Sirius was talking about how easy he found the exam he said "I'll be surprised if I don't get an Outstanding on it at least." So if O was the least he thought he could get, than maybe there was a most.
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Miriam Huber - Oct 30, 2004 3:10 am (#227 of 298)
If there were not one important argument against it, I would bet everything that Harry will not get in the NEWT potions class because of Snapes tough criteria and that Harry will hate Snape even more for ruining his dream of becoming an Auror.
(Perhaps that will not really be the case, something might happen to change the situation, but Harry will THINK it - and perhaps he even will not need NEWT-potions because at the end of book 7, there will no longer be a Harry to become an auror... but that is another theme).
The only aspect that keeps me from betting is that, as many of you have rightly stated, in this case, how are we to see Snape more than very accidentally throughout book 6?
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JackO - Oct 31, 2004 8:14 am (#228 of 298)
I guess we can't know if Harry will be alive to become an Auror. But he doesn't know if he will die by then, so the logical thing for him to do is to plan that he will live. And because the only career he even mentioned was becoming an Auror, I'm going with that. Maybe McGonagall really will help him, and get him into NEWT potions or something.
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MickeyCee3948 - Oct 31, 2004 1:04 pm (#229 of 298)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
If as some have suggested and Snape finally receives the DADA position then he could not set the requirements to take NEWT level potions. That would allow Harry to take the class.
Mikie
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Tomoé - Nov 2, 2004 11:48 pm (#230 of 298)
Back in business
I don't think Harry will get outstanding for his Potions OWL, and I don't think Snape will move to another subject. Harry will have to get his place the hard way, either by re-sitting the test, coached by MacGonagall, or by humbly asking Snape to give him a second chance and take him in his class.
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scoop2172000 - Nov 3, 2004 10:46 am (#231 of 298)
I agree with JackO that McGonagall will someone make Snape accept Harry into NEWT Potions even though Harry's Potions OWL will be less than O. As Deputy Headmistress, she carries some clout. And Snape being manipulated into accepting Harry into Potions Grade 6 will be yet another reason for Snape to abuse him in class.
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Kelly Kapaoski - Nov 7, 2004 8:24 am (#232 of 298)
Here are my predictions for harry's Owl grades Astronomy: Acceptible Charms: outstanding Care of Magical Creatures: outstanding Defence Against the Dark Arts: Exceded Expectations Divinations: Dreadful Herbology: acceptible History of Magic: acceptible Potions: acceptible Transfigurations: Exceded Expectations
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Aud Duck - Nov 8, 2004 6:44 pm (#233 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I can't see Harry getting anything less than outstanding on his Defense Against the Dark Arts, Kelly.
Snape finally receives the DADA position then he could not set the requirements to take NEWT level potions. That would allow Harry to take the class.
An excellent point. It seems to me that none of us would think Harry got an O in Potions if he were not required to get it to be an auror. I am guessing that under other circumstances, we would be betting on an E or an A. This would certainly solve the problem. I would actually like to see it, because Defense Against the Dark Arts is something Harry can succeed in even if he is being bullied, whereas Potions is not. Look how many truly dreadful teacher he has had in the subject. And yet, he's still pretty good.
McGonagall will someone make Snape accept Harry into NEWT Potions even though Harry's Potions OWL will be less than O.
I know that McGonagall is Harry's head of house and all, but she is very impartial. Can you imagine her reaction if some other teacher asked her to let a sub-standard student into her class? I can't see her asking Snape to do something she herself would never do.
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Annika - Nov 9, 2004 10:40 am (#234 of 298)
But McGonagall will "see Harry become an Auror is it is the last thing she does." (paraphrased, sorry) I know these were words said primarily out of frustration at Umbridge, but I think she will do everything in her power to help Harry achieve his goal. She won't make it easy on him (ie: extra lessons, extra homework, etc. to prove himself equal to the task), but I believe she will help him.
As far as Harry's O.W.L.s go, I think his Divination scores may prove if there really is a T for Troll in the grading system.
Annika
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Tomoé - Nov 9, 2004 4:53 pm (#235 of 298)
Back in business
I believe McGonagall will make Harry re-sit the test before asking Snape to take a sub-standard student. She's fair and she knows it will do Harry no good to send him in a class where he'll be the worst student by far, with a teacher he loath. Especially if Snape constantly remind him he's slowing the other students down. Harry need to master the subject on an OWL level to perform in Snape's lessons.
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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 9, 2004 7:40 pm (#236 of 298)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I don't think Harry is that bad at Potions and I think JKR will alleviate the problem by having Snape as the DADA teacher this year. She can then put McClaggan as the potions teacher. He will be the same one teacher Lily and James when they were in school. I think this will allow Harry to excel in his sixth year of potions.
Mikie
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scoop2172000 - Nov 10, 2004 10:15 am (#237 of 298)
I stand by my prediction that McGonagall, perhaps backed up by Dumbledore, will make Snape take Harry into NEWT potions. After all, Dumbledore got Snape to teach Harry Occlumency.
Snape reneged on the Occlumency teaching because of the Pensieve incident -- and thus contributed to Sirius' death. Snape screwed up and let Dumbledore -- let the whole Order -- down.
Now, with that black mark against him, can Snape really tell McGonagall and/or Dumbledore "No, I won't accept Potter into NEWT Potions"?
Here's something else for thought: Snape's bullying of Harry in class has been a story thread winding through all the books thus far. It'd make sense for JKR to continue it.
One last piece of food for thought: What are the two classes Harry can't stand? Potions and Divination. But now he knows he needs Potions for his Auror ambitions. And I'll bet he has a different view of Divination, now that he knows there are real prophecies.
The contents of the prophecy concerning him and Voldemort likely will become an obsession with Harry and might prod him to continue Divination too in the hopes of learning more on the subject. Or, at the very least, he might be more inclined to be around Trelawney in the hopes of hearing her switch into her "real seer state"
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Aud Duck - Nov 10, 2004 4:04 pm (#238 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
"Now, with that black mark against him, can Snape really tell McGonagall and/or Dumbledore "No, I won't accept Potter into NEWT Potions"? " --Scoop2172000
Yes, I think he can. The thing is that he would be refusing to accept a student that did not meet his standards not Harry Potter. True. The student that does not meet his standards does happen to be Harry Potter, but that is not why Snape would be refusing to let him in. (Though it would probably contribute to the problem.)I only see Snape letting a Harry that did not earn an O into his potions class if:
a. Harry resat the exam
b. The hard times in the wizarding world force Snape to lower his standards
c. He has previously let in Draco Malfoy, who also did not manage an O. McGonagall goes to Snape and reminds him that if he is going to lower his standards for Malfoy, he must lower them for everyone.
It is possible that Dumbledore will intervene on the grounds that Harry must be prepared fully for his final battle with Voldemort. Under those circumstances, I see Snape relenting. I just don't see McGonagall intervening, though. She may care about Harry, but she also strives to be completely impartial. She doesn't always manage that, because she is only human. But I certainly don't see her engaging in such a blatant show of favouritism. How many other students have seen their dreams to be aurors squelched by Snape's ridiculous standards? Probably dozens. And did McGonagall intervene on their behalves? Probably not.
Edit: There is a difference between agreeing to teach Harry Occlumency and agreeing to teach him Potions. The safety of a lot of people depended on Harry learning Occlumency. As I have mentioned, there might be grounds for saying that it is almost as important that Harry learn Potions as it is that he learn Occlumency. But we have no way of knowing, so we cannot assume that.
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Tomoé - Nov 10, 2004 6:31 pm (#239 of 298)
Back in business
I agree with aud duck.
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TomProffitt - Nov 10, 2004 7:27 pm (#240 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
I don't think Jo gave Harry the ambition of becoming an Auror just to shoot it down. Now, how he gets into NEWT potions is another matter altogether.
I like scoops view on Divination. Jo underplays Divinations in the books, but I suspect that someone with talent could work some magic with the things Trelawney has showed them in class. I rather doubt the ministry would sanction such a class if it wasn't possible for some to excel at it.
Dumbledore wanting to discontinue the class would indicate that there aren't many who can do it, not necessarily that it doesn't work. A whole Department filled with prophecies suggests a good deal as well.
But Harry wanting to continue Divinations? No, that I find hard to believe.
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Tomoé - Nov 10, 2004 8:47 pm (#241 of 298)
Back in business
I'm sure Harry will get Advanced Potions, but it won't be easy, McGonagall won't interfere if Harry does no effort on his own. That's just the way McGonagall is.
On Divination, Harry seems to appreciate the subject more with Firenze, I can see him taking the subject if he achieve good marks (to his own surprise). There should be a reason why she bring Firenze as a teacher. Plus, Harry will be alone in a Divination class, no Ron and no Hermione and likely no Seamus, no Dean, no Neville, only Parvati and Lavander that always team up together. It would be a great occasion to meet new people, specially if he have no choice but to team with a Slytherin.
Harry in Advanced Divination have a lot possibilities.
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JackO - Nov 11, 2004 12:47 pm (#242 of 298)
I think he will get into NEWT potions, but not for all those other reasons. I think Snape was just trying to scare his students with his high expectations. I know that when I went to school in America some teachers would try to scare me into getting good grades. In Israel it's a bit different, so I can't say they do that now, but I've experienced it. If Snape really held to his standards I think he'd only have Hermione and maybe one or two Slytherins sitting in his class, so he'll have to let in some E level students. This would also give him more material to criticize Harry's work with, and what's a Harry Potter book without some torment from Snape and his Slytherins.
I disagree about Harry becoming interested in Divination. I think we have to try to relate to Harry right now. He's just heard a prophecy stating that the future of the wizarding world pretty much rests on his shoulders. This prophecy is also the reason for numerous attempts at his life by the most evil wizard ever known. For him it's the reason his parents died, as well as a few other people who got in the way. This prophecy is all the more reason for Harry to put the blame for most of the world's suffering on himself. And the other prophecy he's heard about only came true (in his opinion) because he let Voldemort's servant escape and return to him. I think Harry will want to stay as far away from prophecies as he can.
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Tomoé - Nov 11, 2004 4:30 pm (#243 of 298)
Back in business
I don't think Snape fake to want higher standard that he really want. It was McGonagall who tell Harry he took nothing but Outstanding students, not Sanpe. She didn't add he took less perfoming students from time to time either. And let's face it, McGonagall is too fair to use that kind of lies. Plus, it would be a good plot device; Harry need Advanced Potions, but doesn't get high enough marks and must find a way to correct the situation before September 1st.
I don't think there will be only Hermione and a couple of Slytherins. You need Advanced Potions to become Healer, I'm sure some students will put the necessary effort to achieve O. I'm sure Ernie will get O in Potions (he studied 8 hours a day, this should give result somehow) and a buch of Ravenclaw too. Maybe even Hannah, she was pretty nervous about the exams, but she looked for information in the library over Easter.
Edit :As for Divination, we'll have to agree to disagree, but I'll give you all the hint that make me believe it's possible.
Harry achieved good result in his final exam in PoA (predicting Buckbeak evasion) and he didn't pass the test in GoF. He never take the subject seriously, making up dreams or astronomical predictions. He thought his performance in his OWL exam was rubbish, but what he predict could turn out to be true.
The two dreams in GoF are not from Voldemort's point of view, therefore are not related to legilimency, it seems to be a seer at work, plus Dumbledore asked Harry if he saw the snake's attack from within the snake or from beside Arthur, it sounds like Dumbledore expecting more than just Lecilimency from Harry.
Harry told Tonks there was no seer in his family a little too rashly, he no almost nothing about his parents, the occasion is perfect for a spectacular for a "in your face" moment.
Harry and Lily's green eyes are importants, and what eyes do? they see. So I believe Lily was a seer and that's why the Potters gave Dumbledore the key and the invisibility cloack. They knew they were toasted.
Firenze cannot use a wand, he's also blocked in divination. Jo must have a purpose for him beside pissing Umbridge off.
So, Harry could get an O in Divination, it won't be out of the blue, and if he does, I'm sure both Hermione and McGonagall will suggest him to take the subject. Espesially Hermione since she know he did no effort in three years.
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Tomoé - Nov 11, 2004 5:04 pm (#244 of 298)
Back in business
Plus, Harry found a book titled Powers You Never Knew You Had and What to Do With Then Now You've Wised Up (UK GoF ch.26 p.424).
(Sorry, to late to edit)
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scoop2172000 - Nov 12, 2004 9:20 am (#245 of 298)
It's true that McGonagle was the one, not Snape, to tell Harry he'd need an O on his OWL to get into NEWT potions. But let's remember Sanpe's opening speil to the fifth-years on the first potions class of the term -- in that speil, he noted that after OWLs, certain students no longer would be studying with him -- and he looked straight at Harry.
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Tomoé - Nov 12, 2004 4:00 pm (#246 of 298)
Back in business
Yep, the guy is widhing very much to get rid of Harry from year six, but dreams doesn't always come true. ^_^
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Kelly Kapaoski - Nov 12, 2004 8:50 pm (#247 of 298)
also Mcgonagall only recommended NEWT level Potions be taken to become an Auror and that at least 5 Exceded expectations grades were needed to become an Auror. Harry can still become an Auror with Care of magical Creatures, Charms, DADA, Herbology and Transfigurations
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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 13, 2004 12:10 pm (#248 of 298)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Even if Harry had to have NEWT level Potions to become an Auror, I have a hard time believing that after OotP, Harry will take another course that Snape teaches unless he is made too.
Mikie
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Tomoé - Nov 13, 2004 12:38 pm (#249 of 298)
Back in business
The Harry before the DoM wouldn't, the Harry after the DoM will try to see the bigger picture and realise if Potions is a good enough subject for Aurors, it's a good start to stay alive.
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scoop2172000 - Nov 15, 2004 2:05 pm (#250 of 298)
MickeyCee, you have an excellent point. Harry never liked Snape to begin with, and I recall now from "The Second War Begins" that Harry vowed to himself never to forgive Snape (for Snape's part in Sirius' death.)
I've rethought my theory about McGonagle and/or DD engineering Harry's enrolment in NEWT potions. He'd have to be dragged kicking and screaming into any lesson taught by Snape.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Open minded sceptic
Changed rules due to new headmaster or other circumstanse? Error by JKR?
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Czarina II - Sep 10, 2004 7:30 am (#202 of 298)
I don't see why everyone is confused. The examinations' office is taking a bit longer this year than two years earlier. I don't know about Britain or the U.S., but in my high school, lots of things changed from year to year. Something would go wrong, a deadline would be altered, a holiday like Easter would get in the way because it moves, etc. A large event that causes widespread chaos is even worse. For instance, there was a strike at our university last year, for instance, which luckily didn't have that big of an effect on the end of year because it was resolved early enough. Still, not everything took place at its usual time.
At the end of PoA, the escape of Sirius Black wouldn't have affected the Examinations' Office at all. Sure, the Ministry was busy, but that has nothing to do with education other than to increase security at Hogwarts. The Dementors left once Sirius Black did, anyhow. At the end of OoP, the publicized return of Voldemort in the MINISTRY OFFICES, no less, would have thrown the entire wizarding world into turmoil. Now, this happened after the OWLs took place, but this turn of events could push the results arriving even later.
The most reasonable explanation is that something internal at the Ministry was responsible for the delay of results. Perhaps one of the examiners was going on holiday. Perhaps they decided that it would be better that students' results were not publicized at school until the following year. Of course, maybe it is all a mere typo.
I thought that we didn't hear about the twins' results until the beginning of GoF, which is why Molly reacted so harshly toward them.
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haymoni - Sep 10, 2004 7:44 am (#203 of 298)
I thought Molly brought it up in an argument in GOF but I seem to recall the information was first presented in a narrative paragraph.
Sorry - no books here at work!
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Amilia Smith - Sep 10, 2004 10:59 am (#204 of 298)
PoA, ch 22, "Owl Post Again," p.430, Scholastic:
"Percy had got his top-grade N.E.W.T.s; Fred and George had scraped a handful of O.W.L.s each."
GoF, ch 6, "The Portkey," p.69, Scholastic:
"'Oh a fine way to spend six months!' she [Molly] shrieked. 'No wonder you didn't get more O.W.L.s!'"
OotP, ch 12, "Professor Umbridge," p.227, Scholastic:
"'Yeah... you got, what was it, three O.W.L.s each?' said Ron."
I don't know the answer as to why Percy, Fred, and George got their results before the end of the school year. It may be Voldemort's return slowed the examiners down, but Prof. McGonagall told the kids before their exams that they wouldn't be getting their results until July. (OotP, ch 31, "O.W.L.s," p.709, Scholastic) This was before the MoM was admitting to Voldie's return. (However, I do like the explanation that things change from year to year, and there doesn't nessisarily need to be a discrepancy between what happened in PoA and OotP.)
My first thought was that maybe you get your NEWT results before the end of term as you will need them for job-hunting purposes, but since OWLs just affect what classes you take next year, you have to wait. In this senerio, Fred and George would only be guessing as to what their grades were, or doing some unfounded bragging to Ron and Harry about how many OWLs they thought they got. However, when I looked up the quote, it does not seem to point in this direction.
I hope the quotes help, even if I was not able to add anything constructive to the discussion.
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haymoni - Sep 10, 2004 11:07 am (#205 of 298)
Thanks for the quotes, Amelia.
Didn't know if I had found a "Flint" or if it was purely a bureaucratic error.
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TomProffitt - Sep 10, 2004 1:16 pm (#206 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
I'd say it has a lot to do with changing headmasters in the middle of the school year.
Umbridge was only going to be efficient in what mattered to her and not what mattered to the students and their parents.
Now that Dumbledore is back it could change things for the better, or perhaps slow things down even more.
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Natasha - Sep 11, 2004 2:24 am (#207 of 298)
Czarina, the shake-up in the Ministry happened after McGonagal told them that they would receive their results in July
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Aud Duck - Sep 11, 2004 2:05 pm (#208 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I think it was just artistic liscence on JKR's part. Telling us all of that at the end of PoA concluded the book's story neatly. it tied up all of the loose ends, so to speak. But, at the end of OotP, there is tons going on. Nothing is concluded. The last chapter, after all, is entitled something like "The Second War Begins." Maybe she wanted to stretch everything's conclusion until the next book. Or maybe she didn't want to disrupt the tone set by Sirius's death. (Personally, I think it would have been fine to say someting about how he'd gotten 10 OWLs, even managed the necessary "O" in Potions, and found he didn't even care, and how Hermione's constant fretting about her one E did, at least, keep his mind off Sirius.)
Or, maybe she just wanted to give us something else to theorize about until the release of the next book.
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Amilia Smith - Sep 11, 2004 9:17 pm (#209 of 298)
I'm with you, aud duck. Oh, the gymnastics we do to try to forget that this is an imaginary world with a creator free to use artistic license! Leaving Harry's grades open for speculation keeps us busy for a while. And I must say, that is one of the things I am looking forward to learning the most in HBP. Nevermind how Voldemort survived the rebounded AK, nevermind what happened to Wormtail, nevermind who has a relationship with who, I want to know if Harry passed his tests!
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Murphy - Sep 26, 2004 9:57 pm (#210 of 298)
Also, I don't know if this has been brought up already, but do we know for sure that Snape won't be the new DADA teacher? That would leave a new professor in Potions, who very well may have lower standards for his students.
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Good Evans - Sep 27, 2004 12:41 pm (#211 of 298)
Practically perfect in every way
OK - to link this in with the shortest stay thread ....
assumed grades: History of Magic - P Potions : A Transfiguration : E DADA : O Divination : E COMC : O Astronomy : P Charms : O
Therefore harry has to go to Summer School in order to "bump" up his grades in order to take NEWTS in his chosen subjects to help him on the path to Aurorship!!
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Tomoé - Sep 28, 2004 10:10 pm (#212 of 298)
Back in business
Maddest Dragon -> Because [Draco is] Snape's favorite, Snape has been inflating his grades (I suspect), and will be SHOCKED when he doesn't pass Potions, let alone qualify for the N.E.W.T. Love to see the look on Snape's face when he finds out!
He will be smirking. ^_^
TomProffitt - > Did anyone else get the idea that Harry was unintentionally performing legilimency on Parvati to get his History of Magic O.W.L. answers?
I get the idea Harry was unintentionally performing legilimency on Voldemort, or to be exact, Voldemort was feeding Harry with the information he wanted to strengthen the link between them.
Haymoni -> Why does Harry have to wait until July to get his results? Didn't we know that Percy had done well on his NEWTs and that the Twins had scraped by with a handful of owls at the end of PoA?
For Percy's OWL, there's no mention of result at the and of PS but there's a line in CoS : "[Percy's] exam result came the day before [Harry] did; twelve OLWs and he hardly gloated at all." (UK CoS ch.4 p.40) Which means he get his result in August. The twin's year would have been exceptionally fast.
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haymoni - Sep 29, 2004 11:00 am (#213 of 298)
Tomoe - I'm at work so I don't have my books with me.
I am almost positive that there is a line towards the end of POA that states the results of Percy's NEWTS and the Twins OWLS. It was before the train ride home.
Help me!!!
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Tomoé - Sep 29, 2004 12:42 pm (#214 of 298)
Back in business
Yes, for the twins OWLs and Percy's NEWTs, they had the results at the end of the term. But for Percy OWL, he didn't heard of anything before August. It seems to change from year to year, much be related with the moon or something. ^_^
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Muggle Doctor - Oct 8, 2004 12:11 am (#215 of 298)
"Exceeds Expectations:" it might depend on whose expectations you are exceeding...
As for Harry continuing with potions, the next external examination, the NEWT, is not until the end of Year Seven, and there is nothing said about who actually teaches you in between. It need not be Snape at all. And while Potions are said to be essential for Auror training, I wonder if this is not on a 'things you need to know' basis rather than a 'compulsory subject' basis. I would think that provided you knew it all, you would get through auror training OK.
Maybe with the second war starting, there will be a new career path - "Combat Auror" - where DADA skills count for EVERYTHING and everything else counts for nothing. In which case the only requirement will be an O in DADA.
I think it would be a crime for any serious members of the DA (i.e. probably not Marietta) to get anything less than an Exceed Expectations.
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TomProffitt - Oct 8, 2004 4:40 am (#216 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
I think the term "Combat Auror" would be redundant.
In time of conflict all of their skills become more important. Why would a Death Eater risk battle with an Auror if that Auror is too ignorant of potions to know an Energizing Elixir from a Disembowlment Draught?
Time of War is the worst time to skimp on the training requirements, it would only lead to dead trainees.
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Aud Duck - Oct 8, 2004 5:47 pm (#217 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I think that Harry will have to take Snape simply because we need to see some of Snape. If Harry didn't take Potions, we would miss all of that. I agree with Tom about there being a real need for Potions knowledge, but I nonetheless think that post-OWL education in Potions is more of a literary necessity that an actual one.
I don't think that Muggle Doctor was suggesting that you don't need to know about potions, simply that if you knew about potions, but had not taken the NEWT level classes, it might still be OK.
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TomProffitt - Oct 9, 2004 9:27 pm (#218 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
I think Harry will be ready to fight the Death Eaters without NEWT level potions. What I don't think will happen is the Ministry changing requirements for Aurors.
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Muggle Doctor - Oct 12, 2004 3:27 pm (#219 of 298)
I suppose what I was getting at is that at the moment, an Auror seems much closer (in skills, abilities and the nature of their mission) to, say, James Bond than John Rambo (or in Hermione's case, perhaps Ellen Ripley) - in an all-out fight, though (like the MoM battle), it is Rambo that you need.
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TomProffitt - Oct 12, 2004 8:25 pm (#220 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
Muggle Doc, I accept the argument that wizards can be very useful in the conflict with Lord Voldemort if they don't have full Auror training. Where I disagree is that I don't believe the ministry would consider them as equals to Aurors, it's like the difference between a regular infantryman and an Airborne Ranger.
I suspect people with such skills already exist in the regular Dept. of Magical Law Enforcement.
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Aud Duck - Oct 14, 2004 6:22 pm (#221 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
Well, I don't think they would be considered equal to the aurors, but the ministry is going to have to start hiring supplementary people, and to do that, they will have to relax their standards.
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TomProffitt - Oct 14, 2004 9:01 pm (#222 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
I guess my whole string of posts on this thread goes back to the "combat auror" suggestion.
Anyone who's ever been a "grunt," "dogface," or, "mudfoot," knows that there is no glory for the fighters in the trenches. The ones with the "relaxed standards" are the ones with the bad pay, worse work conditions, and not a good hope for getting home unscathed.
The ones out there slogging it out with the Death Eaters won't be "combat aurors," they'll be "those crude under-trained imbeciles that are giving the Ministry a bad name."
I was a grunt. I'm sure I'll like these people, I doubt the rest of the wizarding world will.
Oh, by the way. Harry will get the OWLs he needs for his NEWTs. I think he'll become a full auror.
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Miriam Huber - Oct 29, 2004 4:24 am (#223 of 298)
I am absolutely sure that Harry will not receive an "O" in his Potions exams and that this (and what following complications ever) will be part of the storyline. Why should JKR make Snape accept only O-students only to have the very unrealistic outcome that Harry HAS an O, if you understand what I am trying to say (sorry, my English is rusty as I am no native speaker and at the moment learning French full speed)? I think she is really cleverer than that. If she wanted Harry just to attend Snape-classes as before in book six, she would not have set that condition.
It is really unlikely for Harry to get an "O", first because he never, never had really good marks up until now in Potions and even if it was partly because of Snapes disklike, he did not do really well in classes, and on what reasons whatever: not learnt is not learnt. And the description of his exam give really no hint, too, that it would be an "O".
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JackO - Oct 29, 2004 4:55 am (#224 of 298)
I don't think Harry is very interested in Potions. He seems to like to DO something, not sit around and drop slices of precisely cut animal body parts into a cauldron. I think he is mostly determined not to fail in front of Snape.
That said, I think he'll get an "O" because he needs to be in NEWT level Potions. Not just for Auror training, but also because it's a very important branch of magic, and because the book just wouldn't be fun without a class with Snape. Not a good reason, I know, but whatever.
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Good Evans - Oct 29, 2004 12:27 pm (#225 of 298)
Practically perfect in every way
I'm not sure about potions, I thought that he would get maybe an A , but on rereading he does so much better without snape being on his case that an E or even and O is not out of possibility for Harry in that subject. Neville as well did much better as Snape was not present at the exam.
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Mrs Brisbee - Oct 29, 2004 1:09 pm (#226 of 298)
I don't think Harry got an O in potions either, though it did look like he might of got an E.
Several things might happen to allow Harry into Potions (it would be a sad thing to see him have to give up his dream to be an Auror). The Ministry hasn't been taking on Aurors for the past few years, and the Auror's might plead for Hogwarts to turn out more candidates so they can increase their ranks. This would allow Dumbledore to require Snape to lower his prerequisites. Or something could happen to Snape over the summer, and a substitute teacher with lower standards would start the term and by the time Snape returned it would be too late to kick Harry out of class.
For Harry's DADA OWL, I see him getting a grade above Outstanding. I base this on several things. First off, George mentioned "T", but then said it stood for "Troll". I think he was joking about what it stood for (do they really need three failing grades?) but there is an actual "T", and it's above Outstanding not below. Second, Harry looked like he was already scoring an O in DADA when he was offered the chance for an extra point--if he already had the highest grade, why? And third, in "Snape's Worst Memory," when Sirius was talking about how easy he found the exam he said "I'll be surprised if I don't get an Outstanding on it at least." So if O was the least he thought he could get, than maybe there was a most.
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Miriam Huber - Oct 30, 2004 3:10 am (#227 of 298)
If there were not one important argument against it, I would bet everything that Harry will not get in the NEWT potions class because of Snapes tough criteria and that Harry will hate Snape even more for ruining his dream of becoming an Auror.
(Perhaps that will not really be the case, something might happen to change the situation, but Harry will THINK it - and perhaps he even will not need NEWT-potions because at the end of book 7, there will no longer be a Harry to become an auror... but that is another theme).
The only aspect that keeps me from betting is that, as many of you have rightly stated, in this case, how are we to see Snape more than very accidentally throughout book 6?
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JackO - Oct 31, 2004 8:14 am (#228 of 298)
I guess we can't know if Harry will be alive to become an Auror. But he doesn't know if he will die by then, so the logical thing for him to do is to plan that he will live. And because the only career he even mentioned was becoming an Auror, I'm going with that. Maybe McGonagall really will help him, and get him into NEWT potions or something.
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MickeyCee3948 - Oct 31, 2004 1:04 pm (#229 of 298)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
If as some have suggested and Snape finally receives the DADA position then he could not set the requirements to take NEWT level potions. That would allow Harry to take the class.
Mikie
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Tomoé - Nov 2, 2004 11:48 pm (#230 of 298)
Back in business
I don't think Harry will get outstanding for his Potions OWL, and I don't think Snape will move to another subject. Harry will have to get his place the hard way, either by re-sitting the test, coached by MacGonagall, or by humbly asking Snape to give him a second chance and take him in his class.
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scoop2172000 - Nov 3, 2004 10:46 am (#231 of 298)
I agree with JackO that McGonagall will someone make Snape accept Harry into NEWT Potions even though Harry's Potions OWL will be less than O. As Deputy Headmistress, she carries some clout. And Snape being manipulated into accepting Harry into Potions Grade 6 will be yet another reason for Snape to abuse him in class.
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Kelly Kapaoski - Nov 7, 2004 8:24 am (#232 of 298)
Here are my predictions for harry's Owl grades Astronomy: Acceptible Charms: outstanding Care of Magical Creatures: outstanding Defence Against the Dark Arts: Exceded Expectations Divinations: Dreadful Herbology: acceptible History of Magic: acceptible Potions: acceptible Transfigurations: Exceded Expectations
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Aud Duck - Nov 8, 2004 6:44 pm (#233 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I can't see Harry getting anything less than outstanding on his Defense Against the Dark Arts, Kelly.
Snape finally receives the DADA position then he could not set the requirements to take NEWT level potions. That would allow Harry to take the class.
An excellent point. It seems to me that none of us would think Harry got an O in Potions if he were not required to get it to be an auror. I am guessing that under other circumstances, we would be betting on an E or an A. This would certainly solve the problem. I would actually like to see it, because Defense Against the Dark Arts is something Harry can succeed in even if he is being bullied, whereas Potions is not. Look how many truly dreadful teacher he has had in the subject. And yet, he's still pretty good.
McGonagall will someone make Snape accept Harry into NEWT Potions even though Harry's Potions OWL will be less than O.
I know that McGonagall is Harry's head of house and all, but she is very impartial. Can you imagine her reaction if some other teacher asked her to let a sub-standard student into her class? I can't see her asking Snape to do something she herself would never do.
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Annika - Nov 9, 2004 10:40 am (#234 of 298)
But McGonagall will "see Harry become an Auror is it is the last thing she does." (paraphrased, sorry) I know these were words said primarily out of frustration at Umbridge, but I think she will do everything in her power to help Harry achieve his goal. She won't make it easy on him (ie: extra lessons, extra homework, etc. to prove himself equal to the task), but I believe she will help him.
As far as Harry's O.W.L.s go, I think his Divination scores may prove if there really is a T for Troll in the grading system.
Annika
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Tomoé - Nov 9, 2004 4:53 pm (#235 of 298)
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I believe McGonagall will make Harry re-sit the test before asking Snape to take a sub-standard student. She's fair and she knows it will do Harry no good to send him in a class where he'll be the worst student by far, with a teacher he loath. Especially if Snape constantly remind him he's slowing the other students down. Harry need to master the subject on an OWL level to perform in Snape's lessons.
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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 9, 2004 7:40 pm (#236 of 298)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I don't think Harry is that bad at Potions and I think JKR will alleviate the problem by having Snape as the DADA teacher this year. She can then put McClaggan as the potions teacher. He will be the same one teacher Lily and James when they were in school. I think this will allow Harry to excel in his sixth year of potions.
Mikie
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scoop2172000 - Nov 10, 2004 10:15 am (#237 of 298)
I stand by my prediction that McGonagall, perhaps backed up by Dumbledore, will make Snape take Harry into NEWT potions. After all, Dumbledore got Snape to teach Harry Occlumency.
Snape reneged on the Occlumency teaching because of the Pensieve incident -- and thus contributed to Sirius' death. Snape screwed up and let Dumbledore -- let the whole Order -- down.
Now, with that black mark against him, can Snape really tell McGonagall and/or Dumbledore "No, I won't accept Potter into NEWT Potions"?
Here's something else for thought: Snape's bullying of Harry in class has been a story thread winding through all the books thus far. It'd make sense for JKR to continue it.
One last piece of food for thought: What are the two classes Harry can't stand? Potions and Divination. But now he knows he needs Potions for his Auror ambitions. And I'll bet he has a different view of Divination, now that he knows there are real prophecies.
The contents of the prophecy concerning him and Voldemort likely will become an obsession with Harry and might prod him to continue Divination too in the hopes of learning more on the subject. Or, at the very least, he might be more inclined to be around Trelawney in the hopes of hearing her switch into her "real seer state"
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Aud Duck - Nov 10, 2004 4:04 pm (#238 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
"Now, with that black mark against him, can Snape really tell McGonagall and/or Dumbledore "No, I won't accept Potter into NEWT Potions"? " --Scoop2172000
Yes, I think he can. The thing is that he would be refusing to accept a student that did not meet his standards not Harry Potter. True. The student that does not meet his standards does happen to be Harry Potter, but that is not why Snape would be refusing to let him in. (Though it would probably contribute to the problem.)I only see Snape letting a Harry that did not earn an O into his potions class if:
a. Harry resat the exam
b. The hard times in the wizarding world force Snape to lower his standards
c. He has previously let in Draco Malfoy, who also did not manage an O. McGonagall goes to Snape and reminds him that if he is going to lower his standards for Malfoy, he must lower them for everyone.
It is possible that Dumbledore will intervene on the grounds that Harry must be prepared fully for his final battle with Voldemort. Under those circumstances, I see Snape relenting. I just don't see McGonagall intervening, though. She may care about Harry, but she also strives to be completely impartial. She doesn't always manage that, because she is only human. But I certainly don't see her engaging in such a blatant show of favouritism. How many other students have seen their dreams to be aurors squelched by Snape's ridiculous standards? Probably dozens. And did McGonagall intervene on their behalves? Probably not.
Edit: There is a difference between agreeing to teach Harry Occlumency and agreeing to teach him Potions. The safety of a lot of people depended on Harry learning Occlumency. As I have mentioned, there might be grounds for saying that it is almost as important that Harry learn Potions as it is that he learn Occlumency. But we have no way of knowing, so we cannot assume that.
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Tomoé - Nov 10, 2004 6:31 pm (#239 of 298)
Back in business
I agree with aud duck.
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TomProffitt - Nov 10, 2004 7:27 pm (#240 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
I don't think Jo gave Harry the ambition of becoming an Auror just to shoot it down. Now, how he gets into NEWT potions is another matter altogether.
I like scoops view on Divination. Jo underplays Divinations in the books, but I suspect that someone with talent could work some magic with the things Trelawney has showed them in class. I rather doubt the ministry would sanction such a class if it wasn't possible for some to excel at it.
Dumbledore wanting to discontinue the class would indicate that there aren't many who can do it, not necessarily that it doesn't work. A whole Department filled with prophecies suggests a good deal as well.
But Harry wanting to continue Divinations? No, that I find hard to believe.
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Tomoé - Nov 10, 2004 8:47 pm (#241 of 298)
Back in business
I'm sure Harry will get Advanced Potions, but it won't be easy, McGonagall won't interfere if Harry does no effort on his own. That's just the way McGonagall is.
On Divination, Harry seems to appreciate the subject more with Firenze, I can see him taking the subject if he achieve good marks (to his own surprise). There should be a reason why she bring Firenze as a teacher. Plus, Harry will be alone in a Divination class, no Ron and no Hermione and likely no Seamus, no Dean, no Neville, only Parvati and Lavander that always team up together. It would be a great occasion to meet new people, specially if he have no choice but to team with a Slytherin.
Harry in Advanced Divination have a lot possibilities.
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JackO - Nov 11, 2004 12:47 pm (#242 of 298)
I think he will get into NEWT potions, but not for all those other reasons. I think Snape was just trying to scare his students with his high expectations. I know that when I went to school in America some teachers would try to scare me into getting good grades. In Israel it's a bit different, so I can't say they do that now, but I've experienced it. If Snape really held to his standards I think he'd only have Hermione and maybe one or two Slytherins sitting in his class, so he'll have to let in some E level students. This would also give him more material to criticize Harry's work with, and what's a Harry Potter book without some torment from Snape and his Slytherins.
I disagree about Harry becoming interested in Divination. I think we have to try to relate to Harry right now. He's just heard a prophecy stating that the future of the wizarding world pretty much rests on his shoulders. This prophecy is also the reason for numerous attempts at his life by the most evil wizard ever known. For him it's the reason his parents died, as well as a few other people who got in the way. This prophecy is all the more reason for Harry to put the blame for most of the world's suffering on himself. And the other prophecy he's heard about only came true (in his opinion) because he let Voldemort's servant escape and return to him. I think Harry will want to stay as far away from prophecies as he can.
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Tomoé - Nov 11, 2004 4:30 pm (#243 of 298)
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I don't think Snape fake to want higher standard that he really want. It was McGonagall who tell Harry he took nothing but Outstanding students, not Sanpe. She didn't add he took less perfoming students from time to time either. And let's face it, McGonagall is too fair to use that kind of lies. Plus, it would be a good plot device; Harry need Advanced Potions, but doesn't get high enough marks and must find a way to correct the situation before September 1st.
I don't think there will be only Hermione and a couple of Slytherins. You need Advanced Potions to become Healer, I'm sure some students will put the necessary effort to achieve O. I'm sure Ernie will get O in Potions (he studied 8 hours a day, this should give result somehow) and a buch of Ravenclaw too. Maybe even Hannah, she was pretty nervous about the exams, but she looked for information in the library over Easter.
Edit :As for Divination, we'll have to agree to disagree, but I'll give you all the hint that make me believe it's possible.
Harry achieved good result in his final exam in PoA (predicting Buckbeak evasion) and he didn't pass the test in GoF. He never take the subject seriously, making up dreams or astronomical predictions. He thought his performance in his OWL exam was rubbish, but what he predict could turn out to be true.
The two dreams in GoF are not from Voldemort's point of view, therefore are not related to legilimency, it seems to be a seer at work, plus Dumbledore asked Harry if he saw the snake's attack from within the snake or from beside Arthur, it sounds like Dumbledore expecting more than just Lecilimency from Harry.
Harry told Tonks there was no seer in his family a little too rashly, he no almost nothing about his parents, the occasion is perfect for a spectacular for a "in your face" moment.
Harry and Lily's green eyes are importants, and what eyes do? they see. So I believe Lily was a seer and that's why the Potters gave Dumbledore the key and the invisibility cloack. They knew they were toasted.
Firenze cannot use a wand, he's also blocked in divination. Jo must have a purpose for him beside pissing Umbridge off.
So, Harry could get an O in Divination, it won't be out of the blue, and if he does, I'm sure both Hermione and McGonagall will suggest him to take the subject. Espesially Hermione since she know he did no effort in three years.
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Tomoé - Nov 11, 2004 5:04 pm (#244 of 298)
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Plus, Harry found a book titled Powers You Never Knew You Had and What to Do With Then Now You've Wised Up (UK GoF ch.26 p.424).
(Sorry, to late to edit)
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scoop2172000 - Nov 12, 2004 9:20 am (#245 of 298)
It's true that McGonagle was the one, not Snape, to tell Harry he'd need an O on his OWL to get into NEWT potions. But let's remember Sanpe's opening speil to the fifth-years on the first potions class of the term -- in that speil, he noted that after OWLs, certain students no longer would be studying with him -- and he looked straight at Harry.
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Tomoé - Nov 12, 2004 4:00 pm (#246 of 298)
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Yep, the guy is widhing very much to get rid of Harry from year six, but dreams doesn't always come true. ^_^
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Kelly Kapaoski - Nov 12, 2004 8:50 pm (#247 of 298)
also Mcgonagall only recommended NEWT level Potions be taken to become an Auror and that at least 5 Exceded expectations grades were needed to become an Auror. Harry can still become an Auror with Care of magical Creatures, Charms, DADA, Herbology and Transfigurations
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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 13, 2004 12:10 pm (#248 of 298)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Even if Harry had to have NEWT level Potions to become an Auror, I have a hard time believing that after OotP, Harry will take another course that Snape teaches unless he is made too.
Mikie
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Tomoé - Nov 13, 2004 12:38 pm (#249 of 298)
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The Harry before the DoM wouldn't, the Harry after the DoM will try to see the bigger picture and realise if Potions is a good enough subject for Aurors, it's a good start to stay alive.
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scoop2172000 - Nov 15, 2004 2:05 pm (#250 of 298)
MickeyCee, you have an excellent point. Harry never liked Snape to begin with, and I recall now from "The Second War Begins" that Harry vowed to himself never to forgive Snape (for Snape's part in Sirius' death.)
I've rethought my theory about McGonagle and/or DD engineering Harry's enrolment in NEWT potions. He'd have to be dragged kicking and screaming into any lesson taught by Snape.
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Predictions for Harry’s OWLs grades (Post 251 to 298)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 2:34 am
Aud Duck - Nov 15, 2004 4:33 pm (#251 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I see a strong recommendation that aurors take Potions as dragging Harry kicking and screaming into it. I think Harry would do pretty muck anything in order to get into Potions.
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Gina R Snape - Nov 15, 2004 9:29 pm (#252 of 298)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Well, I've said this before but I'll say it again. I'd wager a sack of galleons that Harry will not get score on his Potions OWL to qualify him for advance potions, but somehow Snape will be forced to take him in advanced potions anyway. Just when both will have been looking forward to be rid of each other in class every week, they will be handed this 'unfortunate' situation. It will make Snape more resentful of Harry's privilege, and Harry more wary of Snape, and be a minor thread of contention in HbP.
Well, that's my prediction, anyway!
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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 16, 2004 1:06 pm (#253 of 298)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Stick to your guns Gina R Snape. It could just happen the way you imagine. But!!!Then again. Harry might have gotten outstanding on the exam away from Snape's biting sarcasm.
Mikie
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legolas - Nov 16, 2004 1:40 pm (#254 of 298)
I think it would be brilliant if he got the correct grade. Snape said he needed all the help he could get infront of Draco. It would be a rub your nose in it kind of thing.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Nov 16, 2004 2:16 pm (#255 of 298)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Just a MINOR thread of contention Gina? :-)
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dizzy lizzy - Nov 16, 2004 5:26 pm (#256 of 298)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
Well yes, you couldn't have Harry and Snape stop their dislike/fighting/differences of opinion etc now could you?. They are too comfortable in these roles, what would they do next?? And actually I thought their mutual antagonism (got it! thats the word I'm looking for!) was what kept the whole series going in the background (plot driver).
Besides I also think Harry will get the right grade.
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haymoni - Nov 17, 2004 6:59 pm (#257 of 298)
I did think it odd that Jo chose that chapter to read aloud - one where Umbridge sits in on Harry's career interview with Minverva.
Perhaps Minerva has to help Harry achieve his grade so that he can become an auror.
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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 22, 2004 7:46 pm (#258 of 298)
Somehow, I don't think it likely that Harry will get an O in Potions. Maybe if there hadn't been all the fuss about whether or not he could make NEWT-level potions, I would, but it would just seem... too convenient if Harry had a sudden improvement in Potions. What I'm trying to say is that if we didn't have an important reason for Harry to do well on his Potions OWL, then it would be more believable than it would be now that we know it's very important to him. I think it's definitely plausible that he could get an E, though.
Edit: Well, it's a good chapter.
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TomProffitt - Nov 22, 2004 10:15 pm (#259 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
"I did think it odd that Jo chose that chapter to read aloud..." --- Haymoni
Most of Order of the Phoenix is a bit on the dark and depressing side. That chapter is one of the lighter, funnier chapters, a much better choice for a reading than Mr. Weasley getting bitten by a snake.
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scoop2172000 - Nov 23, 2004 9:50 am (#260 of 298)
If Jo wanted funny, how about the fireworks mayhem Gred and Forge let loose on Umbridge's first morning as headmistress? That part of OotP is hilarious, far funnier than the shouting match between McGonagle and Umbridge.
I think that in choosing the passage she did, she foreshadowed Harry's additional schooling in his sixth and seventh years. Remember: each book revolves around one school year.
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Aud Duck - Nov 23, 2004 10:35 am (#261 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
If she were choosing a chapter, it wouldn't be a good choice. It's also the chapter where Harry watches his father torment Snape. But will admit that it was an odd choice. If you didn't know the characters, it wouldn't be all that satisfying to watch McGonagall and Umbridge pitted agaisnt one another.
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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 23, 2004 2:27 pm (#262 of 298)
Career Advice? Did she read the whole chapter, or just part of it? Isn't that the chapter in which Harry meets with McGonagall and Umbridge, talks to Remus and Sirius about his dad, and sees Fred and George depart? (I LOVE that scene.)
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Tomoé - Nov 23, 2004 9:21 pm (#263 of 298)
Back in business
"He was in such a bad mood by the time he got to Divination...
...
Harry swung his bag over his shoulder and hurried out of the room, not daring to look at Professor Umbridge" ( Royal Albert Hall Appearance, June 26 2003)
Only the part in McGonagall's office it seems.
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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 24, 2004 6:30 am (#264 of 298)
I love that part! I can definitely see why she would want to read it out loud.
I suppose, to get on topic, I'll post my predictions for Harry's OWL grades:
Charms - E or maybe O
Transfiguration - E
Herbology - E
Defense Against the Dark Arts - O (++)
Potions - E
Care of Magical Creatures - O
Divination - P
Astronomy - A
History of Magic - D
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ShawNewport - Dec 3, 2004 1:44 pm (#265 of 298)
For some reason this is something that I have thought a lot about recently, perhaps because I am taking my own "OWL" tests (or final exams...). Here are my predictions, along with a brief explanation for each.
Transfiguration- E, probably, since he did make at least one noticeable error in both the practical and written exam.
Defense Against the Dark Arts- O...pretty obviously so. No explanation needed.
Divination- D, he himself seemed to lack any confidence in getting that one. But then again, he seemed to lack confidence in ALL of his exams (except maybe DADA).
History of Magic- D, seeing as he didn't finish it and barely know any of the answers anyway.
Astronomy- Probably an A, he seemed to be doing well, except for the fact that he didn't finish the star chart.
Care of Magical Creatures- I would have to say an E, but this could border on an O. He did make a mistake or two, so it all depends on how harshly he gets graded!
Potions- Considering his hatred of the teacher, A. Maybe. He admitted it was easier to work without Snape around, but his years of not liking the subject probably didn't do well on his having learned all that much with Potions.
Herbology-Seems like an E, though very little was said on this exam.
Charms-I am not sure on this one, either. I'd like to say an E, since he is quite good at the subject, but obviously not as perfect as, say, Hermione.
Well, there you go. I am quite sure he failed Divination and History of Magic...or if he passed, it was a near thing. It is hard to predict these things, as those of us in college (or who were in college) know very well.
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Kelly Kapaoski - Dec 3, 2004 9:05 pm (#266 of 298)
I am thinking that Harry might sit the Potions OWL again during the summer months which might explain why he will have the shortest stay at the Dursley's ever.
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Aud Duck - Dec 3, 2004 9:29 pm (#267 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I doubt that you would need to have perfect marks in order to achieve an "O." Here in the states, you can make a few mistakes on an exam and still make the top grade (A). Harry probably made more mistakes on his exams than he realized. You always do. But, based on the number of mistakes he noticed, I think he made at least one O besides DADA.
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 4, 2004 8:32 am (#268 of 298)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I believe that Harry is going to do alot better than most of us give him credit for. Even in Potions. Snape was a large reason that Harry did so bad in Potions. Even when Harry did a potion perfect Snape would destroy it or belittle it.
I also doubt if many students did well in Divination. How could you grade that exam.
Mikie
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Aud Duck - Dec 4, 2004 7:55 pm (#269 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I believe that Harry is going to do alot better than most of us give him credit for.
I agree. I also think we are taking his impression of how he did far too seriously. Personally, my marks never seem to match my impression of how well the test went. I think Harry probably has a fair idea on the practical portion (you would know immediately if you had used the wrong incantation), but, since he didn't join Hermione in going over his exam paper, he really has no idea how well he did on those. History of Magic is pretty obvious: he didn't finish the test, and he didn't know the answers. But I think the others are still very hard to tell. Probably a more accurate measure than Harry's impression of how well the test went would be how well he usually does in that class.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 6, 2004 9:54 am (#270 of 298)
Question for our British friends: Do you think Harry re sit the Potions OWL exam? Under the British school system, on which JKR clearly bases Hogwarts, are students allowed to take the ordinary-level exams more than once?
In the United States, probably the closest equivalent we have is the Scholastic Aptitude Tests (commonly called the SATs). These tests, which measure mathematical and verbal aptitude, are not mandatory for high school graduation. They're voluntary, but college-bound students take them, as they're needed for admission to almost all colleges and universities. Students can -- and often do -- take the SATs more than once.
So, can British students take their ordinary-level exams more than once in order to further pursue their academic careers?
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azi - Dec 6, 2004 12:56 pm (#271 of 298)
Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
I don't think you can generally re-take a GCSE (aka OWL) subject unless it's a 'core' subject like Maths or English. AS and A-levels (A-level = NEWT equivalent, AS = year below) you can resit modules but to re-take the whole subject you reject the grade you got originally. For instance, I got a measly 'C' grade in my AS-level biology and am resitting 2 of the 3 modules. Forutunately I did much better in my other subject so I have no other resits.
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Mara Jade - Dec 7, 2004 10:33 pm (#272 of 298)
Do you really think Harry would want to re-sit a Potions test? I think he'd be happy with any pass mark, and it seems fairly certain he did pass.
As for how Percy got 12 Owls and how many Hermione will get, is it possible that the practical and theory tests count as seperate OWLs?
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Romulus - Dec 8, 2004 10:51 am (#273 of 298)
There is no prohibition on resitting a GCSE, but it doesn't wipe the slate clean - your original mark is still there and no doubt Snape would use that as a reason to reject Harry.
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Aud Duck - Dec 8, 2004 4:54 pm (#274 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
Mara, I think Harry would be willing to beg to be allowed a re-sit. He needs NEWT potions to be an auror. However, as Romulus pointed out, Snape is not likely to honour the new grade. But I don't see that being a problem. If Harry were to make the grade, I really do see McGonagall intervening on his behalf. I have said before that her sense of fairness would prevent her going to Snape if Harry does not make an "O." But I think the same sense of fairness would cause her to go to Snape on Harry's behalf. If Harry made the grade the second time, Snape would not have any real leg to stand on.
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Paulus Maximus - Dec 8, 2004 8:14 pm (#275 of 298)
If the old test is not erased, Harry would need to have had a high E the first time, and a high O the second time, for the grades to average out to an O...
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Tomoé - Dec 8, 2004 11:01 pm (#276 of 298)
Back in business
No, that's not the way it works Paulus.
On Harry's OWL report sheet, there will be two entries named Potions, the first with A or E and the second with O.
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Paulus Maximus - Dec 9, 2004 10:31 am (#277 of 298)
So the grades aren't averaged?
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Tomoé - Dec 9, 2004 12:35 pm (#278 of 298)
Back in business
No, Harry's report should look like this :
Jun 96 Astronomy A
Jun 96 Care of Magical Creatures O
Jun 96 Charms E
Jun 96 Defence Against the Dark Arts O
Jun 96 Divination O
Jun 96 Herbology E
Jun 96 History of Magic D
Jun 96 Potions A
Jun 96 Transfiguration E
Aug 96 Potions O
Edit: I re-edit the table, made it vertical instead of horizontal.
Edit : Or at least, that's the way in works in Canada.
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TomProffitt - Dec 12, 2004 7:04 pm (#279 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
An "O" in Divination, Tomoe? Even if Harry is a seer he certainly didn't learn enough about the subject to know what he's doing. He may have an "O" on the practical, but he's got a "T" on the written.
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Amilia Smith - Dec 13, 2004 2:31 pm (#280 of 298)
He may have an "O" on the practical, . . .
So, you think Prof. Marchbanks really should have died last Tuesday, and will shortly meet a round, dark, soggy stranger? :-)
Mills.
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Neville Longbottom - Dec 14, 2004 12:44 pm (#281 of 298)
I think there wasn't even a written paper in Divination. It only was practical and was between the theoretical and the practical Astronomy OWL. Besides, I'm sure Harry won't have an O in Divination.
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Cuivienen - Dec 14, 2004 1:46 pm (#282 of 298)
Maybe Madam Marchbanks knows that Divination is a completely useless subject and gives everyone Os.
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Aud Duck - Dec 14, 2004 3:23 pm (#283 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
She might know it's a useless subject, but I think she would still take off points for misdoing the calculations.
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Tomoé - Dec 15, 2004 7:25 am (#284 of 298)
Back in business
Oh sorry, I paste the wrong line beside Divination when I corrected the table. You should have read P.
Edit : The highest mark Harry can achieve is A, and he would be very lucky, O is out of reach. Maybe the Divination test work like a IQ test, the test is divised in many sections, the highest section score become your final mark. But even with that, I'm not sure he could even get an E.
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Ydnam96 - Dec 15, 2004 3:20 pm (#285 of 298)
You know the more I think about it the more I feel like maybe Harry doesn't want to be an Auror...
He really just said that cause Ron said it and it's something he never really thought about. He has been a little preoccupied. I get the feeling that it's possible that Harry may be sick of dark wizard catching by the end of his schooling. Plus, I'm not sure he'll want to put in the effort to take the OWLS again if even if he could.
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Prefect Marcus - Dec 15, 2004 3:26 pm (#286 of 298)
"Anyone can cook"
No, Harry wants to be an Auror, all right. There is no question of that ever since pseudo-Moody made the suggestion to him in GoF.
Now how great his desire is is another question altogether. Is he "all the way, 1000%, come-hell-or-highwater" about it? I don't think so. I think he is more, "That sounds like a good idea. Let's go with that." That is appropiate for a boy his age.
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Maria Dunlavey - Dec 15, 2004 5:53 pm (#287 of 298)
I think Harry wants to be an Auror now, but I'm not so sure how he'll feel by the time the whole Voldemort deal is over. I agree that he probably will be a little bit sick of dealing with dark wizards,
I agree with Marcus on the extent of his desire.
I just realized how the practical examinations must be for the students... and I feel very sorry for them. I had an audition for the district Orchestra (I play clarinet) on Saturday, and it was absolutely terrifying, but also very similar to how practical OWLs are run:
-you, along with a small group of other students, are called to where the examiners are
-you work one on one with an examiner, who's usually pretty friendly
-the examiner asks you to demonstrate only part of what you've learned in preparation
-others who are called up at the same time can witness your examination/audition, but they aren't right there
Wow, now I'm feeling really sorry for Harry and the rest... especially with Divination... and I was freaking out because I took a few breaths in the wrong places (that did bring me down considerably, although I still got in).
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Madame Pomfrey - Dec 17, 2004 5:05 pm (#288 of 298)
p;i]l.lk.j.l;.l.l'u.l/g
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Dec 17, 2004 8:09 pm (#289 of 298)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Cat walking across keyboard?
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wolfgrl - Dec 20, 2004 12:34 pm (#290 of 298)
Congratz Maria :-)
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Maria Dunlavey - Dec 23, 2004 5:12 pm (#291 of 298)
Thank you! :-)
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Miccaya - Dec 25, 2004 10:17 am (#292 of 298)
I think Harry will get an O in potions. It would be so funny to see Snape's face. And Malfoy will only get an A :-)
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Qwaz - Dec 29, 2004 12:00 pm (#293 of 298)
Given the disturbance during the Astronomy exam the Board of External examiners could ask to have imput from the pupils Astro. teacher in an attempt to grade fairly.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jan 4, 2005 3:58 pm (#294 of 298)
Hi, In GoF, Harry was obligated to compete because of a "binding magical contract."
In the infamous argument between MMcG and DJU, MMcG declared that she would do whatever it took to ensure that Harry became an Auror. By her own declaration, this included tutoring him, as needed.
We have also recently learned that Harry's stay at 4PD will be the shortest yet. There is speculation in other fora that this could be as early as July 16, the date the HBP is due on the shelves.
I ask if it's possible that Harry is forced to take remedial potions for real, rather than as a subterfuge to learning Occlumency? That is, I propose that Harry does NOT receive an O in Potions. Instead, he receives an E. It's good, but not good enough to get into SS's NEWT Potions class. Then, it becomes incumbent upon MMcG to tutor him, thereby bringing his grade up to O.
This also provides additional grist for the Harry-Snape feud. Harry would get into the NEWT potions class, but through the back door. Snape would be furious, but there would be nothing he could do about it.
It's a thought anyway.
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Aud Duck - Jan 4, 2005 5:54 pm (#295 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I think there's a difference between the Goblet of Fire and a declaration made out of spite, no matter how strong it is. People say things like "I swear!" all the time without really meaning anything by it. And I still don't see McG's sense of fairness allowing her to coach Harry unless she also coaches all the other students that got Es. It's definitely a possibility, but I think it's rather unlikely.
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Cuivienen - Jan 5, 2005 8:15 pm (#296 of 298)
I don't know -- normally, I would expect McGonagall to treat everyone equally. However, she did promise Harry that she would make sure he became an Auror, and I don't see McGonagall reneging on a promise. Ever.
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TomProffitt - Jan 5, 2005 10:22 pm (#297 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
Minerva might not offer to tutor all of her students, but I'm sure would see to it that all who asked for help were given it, even if not by her.
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Aud Duck - Jan 6, 2005 12:31 pm (#298 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I really don't see what she said as a promise. I know she phrased it that way, but I don't think that's the way she meant it. It seemed to me to be more along the lines of a vote of confidence than a promise.
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"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I see a strong recommendation that aurors take Potions as dragging Harry kicking and screaming into it. I think Harry would do pretty muck anything in order to get into Potions.
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Gina R Snape - Nov 15, 2004 9:29 pm (#252 of 298)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Well, I've said this before but I'll say it again. I'd wager a sack of galleons that Harry will not get score on his Potions OWL to qualify him for advance potions, but somehow Snape will be forced to take him in advanced potions anyway. Just when both will have been looking forward to be rid of each other in class every week, they will be handed this 'unfortunate' situation. It will make Snape more resentful of Harry's privilege, and Harry more wary of Snape, and be a minor thread of contention in HbP.
Well, that's my prediction, anyway!
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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 16, 2004 1:06 pm (#253 of 298)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Stick to your guns Gina R Snape. It could just happen the way you imagine. But!!!Then again. Harry might have gotten outstanding on the exam away from Snape's biting sarcasm.
Mikie
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legolas - Nov 16, 2004 1:40 pm (#254 of 298)
I think it would be brilliant if he got the correct grade. Snape said he needed all the help he could get infront of Draco. It would be a rub your nose in it kind of thing.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Nov 16, 2004 2:16 pm (#255 of 298)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Just a MINOR thread of contention Gina? :-)
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dizzy lizzy - Nov 16, 2004 5:26 pm (#256 of 298)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
Well yes, you couldn't have Harry and Snape stop their dislike/fighting/differences of opinion etc now could you?. They are too comfortable in these roles, what would they do next?? And actually I thought their mutual antagonism (got it! thats the word I'm looking for!) was what kept the whole series going in the background (plot driver).
Besides I also think Harry will get the right grade.
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haymoni - Nov 17, 2004 6:59 pm (#257 of 298)
I did think it odd that Jo chose that chapter to read aloud - one where Umbridge sits in on Harry's career interview with Minverva.
Perhaps Minerva has to help Harry achieve his grade so that he can become an auror.
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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 22, 2004 7:46 pm (#258 of 298)
Somehow, I don't think it likely that Harry will get an O in Potions. Maybe if there hadn't been all the fuss about whether or not he could make NEWT-level potions, I would, but it would just seem... too convenient if Harry had a sudden improvement in Potions. What I'm trying to say is that if we didn't have an important reason for Harry to do well on his Potions OWL, then it would be more believable than it would be now that we know it's very important to him. I think it's definitely plausible that he could get an E, though.
Edit: Well, it's a good chapter.
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TomProffitt - Nov 22, 2004 10:15 pm (#259 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
"I did think it odd that Jo chose that chapter to read aloud..." --- Haymoni
Most of Order of the Phoenix is a bit on the dark and depressing side. That chapter is one of the lighter, funnier chapters, a much better choice for a reading than Mr. Weasley getting bitten by a snake.
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scoop2172000 - Nov 23, 2004 9:50 am (#260 of 298)
If Jo wanted funny, how about the fireworks mayhem Gred and Forge let loose on Umbridge's first morning as headmistress? That part of OotP is hilarious, far funnier than the shouting match between McGonagle and Umbridge.
I think that in choosing the passage she did, she foreshadowed Harry's additional schooling in his sixth and seventh years. Remember: each book revolves around one school year.
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Aud Duck - Nov 23, 2004 10:35 am (#261 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
If she were choosing a chapter, it wouldn't be a good choice. It's also the chapter where Harry watches his father torment Snape. But will admit that it was an odd choice. If you didn't know the characters, it wouldn't be all that satisfying to watch McGonagall and Umbridge pitted agaisnt one another.
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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 23, 2004 2:27 pm (#262 of 298)
Career Advice? Did she read the whole chapter, or just part of it? Isn't that the chapter in which Harry meets with McGonagall and Umbridge, talks to Remus and Sirius about his dad, and sees Fred and George depart? (I LOVE that scene.)
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Tomoé - Nov 23, 2004 9:21 pm (#263 of 298)
Back in business
"He was in such a bad mood by the time he got to Divination...
...
Harry swung his bag over his shoulder and hurried out of the room, not daring to look at Professor Umbridge" ( Royal Albert Hall Appearance, June 26 2003)
Only the part in McGonagall's office it seems.
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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 24, 2004 6:30 am (#264 of 298)
I love that part! I can definitely see why she would want to read it out loud.
I suppose, to get on topic, I'll post my predictions for Harry's OWL grades:
Charms - E or maybe O
Transfiguration - E
Herbology - E
Defense Against the Dark Arts - O (++)
Potions - E
Care of Magical Creatures - O
Divination - P
Astronomy - A
History of Magic - D
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ShawNewport - Dec 3, 2004 1:44 pm (#265 of 298)
For some reason this is something that I have thought a lot about recently, perhaps because I am taking my own "OWL" tests (or final exams...). Here are my predictions, along with a brief explanation for each.
Transfiguration- E, probably, since he did make at least one noticeable error in both the practical and written exam.
Defense Against the Dark Arts- O...pretty obviously so. No explanation needed.
Divination- D, he himself seemed to lack any confidence in getting that one. But then again, he seemed to lack confidence in ALL of his exams (except maybe DADA).
History of Magic- D, seeing as he didn't finish it and barely know any of the answers anyway.
Astronomy- Probably an A, he seemed to be doing well, except for the fact that he didn't finish the star chart.
Care of Magical Creatures- I would have to say an E, but this could border on an O. He did make a mistake or two, so it all depends on how harshly he gets graded!
Potions- Considering his hatred of the teacher, A. Maybe. He admitted it was easier to work without Snape around, but his years of not liking the subject probably didn't do well on his having learned all that much with Potions.
Herbology-Seems like an E, though very little was said on this exam.
Charms-I am not sure on this one, either. I'd like to say an E, since he is quite good at the subject, but obviously not as perfect as, say, Hermione.
Well, there you go. I am quite sure he failed Divination and History of Magic...or if he passed, it was a near thing. It is hard to predict these things, as those of us in college (or who were in college) know very well.
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Kelly Kapaoski - Dec 3, 2004 9:05 pm (#266 of 298)
I am thinking that Harry might sit the Potions OWL again during the summer months which might explain why he will have the shortest stay at the Dursley's ever.
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Aud Duck - Dec 3, 2004 9:29 pm (#267 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I doubt that you would need to have perfect marks in order to achieve an "O." Here in the states, you can make a few mistakes on an exam and still make the top grade (A). Harry probably made more mistakes on his exams than he realized. You always do. But, based on the number of mistakes he noticed, I think he made at least one O besides DADA.
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 4, 2004 8:32 am (#268 of 298)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I believe that Harry is going to do alot better than most of us give him credit for. Even in Potions. Snape was a large reason that Harry did so bad in Potions. Even when Harry did a potion perfect Snape would destroy it or belittle it.
I also doubt if many students did well in Divination. How could you grade that exam.
Mikie
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Aud Duck - Dec 4, 2004 7:55 pm (#269 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I believe that Harry is going to do alot better than most of us give him credit for.
I agree. I also think we are taking his impression of how he did far too seriously. Personally, my marks never seem to match my impression of how well the test went. I think Harry probably has a fair idea on the practical portion (you would know immediately if you had used the wrong incantation), but, since he didn't join Hermione in going over his exam paper, he really has no idea how well he did on those. History of Magic is pretty obvious: he didn't finish the test, and he didn't know the answers. But I think the others are still very hard to tell. Probably a more accurate measure than Harry's impression of how well the test went would be how well he usually does in that class.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 6, 2004 9:54 am (#270 of 298)
Question for our British friends: Do you think Harry re sit the Potions OWL exam? Under the British school system, on which JKR clearly bases Hogwarts, are students allowed to take the ordinary-level exams more than once?
In the United States, probably the closest equivalent we have is the Scholastic Aptitude Tests (commonly called the SATs). These tests, which measure mathematical and verbal aptitude, are not mandatory for high school graduation. They're voluntary, but college-bound students take them, as they're needed for admission to almost all colleges and universities. Students can -- and often do -- take the SATs more than once.
So, can British students take their ordinary-level exams more than once in order to further pursue their academic careers?
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azi - Dec 6, 2004 12:56 pm (#271 of 298)
Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
I don't think you can generally re-take a GCSE (aka OWL) subject unless it's a 'core' subject like Maths or English. AS and A-levels (A-level = NEWT equivalent, AS = year below) you can resit modules but to re-take the whole subject you reject the grade you got originally. For instance, I got a measly 'C' grade in my AS-level biology and am resitting 2 of the 3 modules. Forutunately I did much better in my other subject so I have no other resits.
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Mara Jade - Dec 7, 2004 10:33 pm (#272 of 298)
Do you really think Harry would want to re-sit a Potions test? I think he'd be happy with any pass mark, and it seems fairly certain he did pass.
As for how Percy got 12 Owls and how many Hermione will get, is it possible that the practical and theory tests count as seperate OWLs?
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Romulus - Dec 8, 2004 10:51 am (#273 of 298)
There is no prohibition on resitting a GCSE, but it doesn't wipe the slate clean - your original mark is still there and no doubt Snape would use that as a reason to reject Harry.
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Aud Duck - Dec 8, 2004 4:54 pm (#274 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
Mara, I think Harry would be willing to beg to be allowed a re-sit. He needs NEWT potions to be an auror. However, as Romulus pointed out, Snape is not likely to honour the new grade. But I don't see that being a problem. If Harry were to make the grade, I really do see McGonagall intervening on his behalf. I have said before that her sense of fairness would prevent her going to Snape if Harry does not make an "O." But I think the same sense of fairness would cause her to go to Snape on Harry's behalf. If Harry made the grade the second time, Snape would not have any real leg to stand on.
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Paulus Maximus - Dec 8, 2004 8:14 pm (#275 of 298)
If the old test is not erased, Harry would need to have had a high E the first time, and a high O the second time, for the grades to average out to an O...
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Tomoé - Dec 8, 2004 11:01 pm (#276 of 298)
Back in business
No, that's not the way it works Paulus.
On Harry's OWL report sheet, there will be two entries named Potions, the first with A or E and the second with O.
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Paulus Maximus - Dec 9, 2004 10:31 am (#277 of 298)
So the grades aren't averaged?
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Tomoé - Dec 9, 2004 12:35 pm (#278 of 298)
Back in business
No, Harry's report should look like this :
Jun 96 Astronomy A
Jun 96 Care of Magical Creatures O
Jun 96 Charms E
Jun 96 Defence Against the Dark Arts O
Jun 96 Divination O
Jun 96 Herbology E
Jun 96 History of Magic D
Jun 96 Potions A
Jun 96 Transfiguration E
Aug 96 Potions O
Edit: I re-edit the table, made it vertical instead of horizontal.
Edit : Or at least, that's the way in works in Canada.
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TomProffitt - Dec 12, 2004 7:04 pm (#279 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
An "O" in Divination, Tomoe? Even if Harry is a seer he certainly didn't learn enough about the subject to know what he's doing. He may have an "O" on the practical, but he's got a "T" on the written.
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Amilia Smith - Dec 13, 2004 2:31 pm (#280 of 298)
He may have an "O" on the practical, . . .
So, you think Prof. Marchbanks really should have died last Tuesday, and will shortly meet a round, dark, soggy stranger? :-)
Mills.
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Neville Longbottom - Dec 14, 2004 12:44 pm (#281 of 298)
I think there wasn't even a written paper in Divination. It only was practical and was between the theoretical and the practical Astronomy OWL. Besides, I'm sure Harry won't have an O in Divination.
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Cuivienen - Dec 14, 2004 1:46 pm (#282 of 298)
Maybe Madam Marchbanks knows that Divination is a completely useless subject and gives everyone Os.
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Aud Duck - Dec 14, 2004 3:23 pm (#283 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
She might know it's a useless subject, but I think she would still take off points for misdoing the calculations.
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Tomoé - Dec 15, 2004 7:25 am (#284 of 298)
Back in business
Oh sorry, I paste the wrong line beside Divination when I corrected the table. You should have read P.
Edit : The highest mark Harry can achieve is A, and he would be very lucky, O is out of reach. Maybe the Divination test work like a IQ test, the test is divised in many sections, the highest section score become your final mark. But even with that, I'm not sure he could even get an E.
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Ydnam96 - Dec 15, 2004 3:20 pm (#285 of 298)
You know the more I think about it the more I feel like maybe Harry doesn't want to be an Auror...
He really just said that cause Ron said it and it's something he never really thought about. He has been a little preoccupied. I get the feeling that it's possible that Harry may be sick of dark wizard catching by the end of his schooling. Plus, I'm not sure he'll want to put in the effort to take the OWLS again if even if he could.
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Prefect Marcus - Dec 15, 2004 3:26 pm (#286 of 298)
"Anyone can cook"
No, Harry wants to be an Auror, all right. There is no question of that ever since pseudo-Moody made the suggestion to him in GoF.
Now how great his desire is is another question altogether. Is he "all the way, 1000%, come-hell-or-highwater" about it? I don't think so. I think he is more, "That sounds like a good idea. Let's go with that." That is appropiate for a boy his age.
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Maria Dunlavey - Dec 15, 2004 5:53 pm (#287 of 298)
I think Harry wants to be an Auror now, but I'm not so sure how he'll feel by the time the whole Voldemort deal is over. I agree that he probably will be a little bit sick of dealing with dark wizards,
I agree with Marcus on the extent of his desire.
I just realized how the practical examinations must be for the students... and I feel very sorry for them. I had an audition for the district Orchestra (I play clarinet) on Saturday, and it was absolutely terrifying, but also very similar to how practical OWLs are run:
-you, along with a small group of other students, are called to where the examiners are
-you work one on one with an examiner, who's usually pretty friendly
-the examiner asks you to demonstrate only part of what you've learned in preparation
-others who are called up at the same time can witness your examination/audition, but they aren't right there
Wow, now I'm feeling really sorry for Harry and the rest... especially with Divination... and I was freaking out because I took a few breaths in the wrong places (that did bring me down considerably, although I still got in).
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Madame Pomfrey - Dec 17, 2004 5:05 pm (#288 of 298)
p;i]l.lk.j.l;.l.l'u.l/g
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Dec 17, 2004 8:09 pm (#289 of 298)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Cat walking across keyboard?
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wolfgrl - Dec 20, 2004 12:34 pm (#290 of 298)
Congratz Maria :-)
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Maria Dunlavey - Dec 23, 2004 5:12 pm (#291 of 298)
Thank you! :-)
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Miccaya - Dec 25, 2004 10:17 am (#292 of 298)
I think Harry will get an O in potions. It would be so funny to see Snape's face. And Malfoy will only get an A :-)
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Qwaz - Dec 29, 2004 12:00 pm (#293 of 298)
Given the disturbance during the Astronomy exam the Board of External examiners could ask to have imput from the pupils Astro. teacher in an attempt to grade fairly.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jan 4, 2005 3:58 pm (#294 of 298)
Hi, In GoF, Harry was obligated to compete because of a "binding magical contract."
In the infamous argument between MMcG and DJU, MMcG declared that she would do whatever it took to ensure that Harry became an Auror. By her own declaration, this included tutoring him, as needed.
We have also recently learned that Harry's stay at 4PD will be the shortest yet. There is speculation in other fora that this could be as early as July 16, the date the HBP is due on the shelves.
I ask if it's possible that Harry is forced to take remedial potions for real, rather than as a subterfuge to learning Occlumency? That is, I propose that Harry does NOT receive an O in Potions. Instead, he receives an E. It's good, but not good enough to get into SS's NEWT Potions class. Then, it becomes incumbent upon MMcG to tutor him, thereby bringing his grade up to O.
This also provides additional grist for the Harry-Snape feud. Harry would get into the NEWT potions class, but through the back door. Snape would be furious, but there would be nothing he could do about it.
It's a thought anyway.
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Aud Duck - Jan 4, 2005 5:54 pm (#295 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I think there's a difference between the Goblet of Fire and a declaration made out of spite, no matter how strong it is. People say things like "I swear!" all the time without really meaning anything by it. And I still don't see McG's sense of fairness allowing her to coach Harry unless she also coaches all the other students that got Es. It's definitely a possibility, but I think it's rather unlikely.
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Cuivienen - Jan 5, 2005 8:15 pm (#296 of 298)
I don't know -- normally, I would expect McGonagall to treat everyone equally. However, she did promise Harry that she would make sure he became an Auror, and I don't see McGonagall reneging on a promise. Ever.
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TomProffitt - Jan 5, 2005 10:22 pm (#297 of 298)
Bullheaded empiricist
Minerva might not offer to tutor all of her students, but I'm sure would see to it that all who asked for help were given it, even if not by her.
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Aud Duck - Jan 6, 2005 12:31 pm (#298 of 298)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
I really don't see what she said as a promise. I know she phrased it that way, but I don't think that's the way she meant it. It seemed to me to be more along the lines of a vote of confidence than a promise.
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