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Who will die in books 6/7?
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 10:27 am
Who will die in books 6/7?
Steve Newton - Jun 20, 2004 11:34 am
Edited by Kip Carter Aug 30, 2007 5:22 am
My son and I have had many discussions about who will, um, die in the last 2 books.
Of the key characters we agree on Lupin, Peter, and Neville. Neville because he is so close to the prophecy and has a cause, Lupin because he is the last of his group, besides Peter. Peter because he is Peter.
From there on we are in disagreement.
Ron says in SS "I am going to be a knight," and then he sacrifices himself. I think that he will be in the midst of the fighting and will fall.
Dumbledore bellieves that death is the next great adventure for the organized mind. I think that he is prepared to go.
I find Colin irritating. Maybe I just wish he would die.
My son thinks Moody will die because he is already a target of the Death Eaters.
Percy looks vulnerable because he sort of betrayed the OOTP and being a Weasley he may be a target of the DEs. He also may, probobly not, try to make up for his betrayal.
Anyway, we were wondering who others think will die, and why.
Who will die in books 6/7 thread index
This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. Elanor
Steve Newton - Jun 20, 2004 11:34 am
Edited by Kip Carter Aug 30, 2007 5:22 am
My son and I have had many discussions about who will, um, die in the last 2 books.
Of the key characters we agree on Lupin, Peter, and Neville. Neville because he is so close to the prophecy and has a cause, Lupin because he is the last of his group, besides Peter. Peter because he is Peter.
From there on we are in disagreement.
Ron says in SS "I am going to be a knight," and then he sacrifices himself. I think that he will be in the midst of the fighting and will fall.
Dumbledore bellieves that death is the next great adventure for the organized mind. I think that he is prepared to go.
I find Colin irritating. Maybe I just wish he would die.
My son thinks Moody will die because he is already a target of the Death Eaters.
Percy looks vulnerable because he sort of betrayed the OOTP and being a Weasley he may be a target of the DEs. He also may, probobly not, try to make up for his betrayal.
Anyway, we were wondering who others think will die, and why.
Who will die in books 6/7 thread index
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Last edited by Elanor on Sat May 21, 2011 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total
Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 1 to 50)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 10:37 am
Liz - Jun 20, 2004 12:12 pm (#1 of 1297)
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I think Lupin is going to die at the hand of wormtail, as he's a ware wolf and now Peter has a silver hand. To me it makes sense.
Does it make sense to others?
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MadEye - Jun 20, 2004 3:00 pm (#2 of 1297)
Who would Dumbledore give his post to, before he died?
- McGonagall: no, too predictable - Dumbledore never is.
- Harry: no, he'd still be too young.
- Snape: Yes. You know it makes sense.
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Neville Longbottom - Jun 20, 2004 3:21 pm (#3 of 1297)
I am absolutely sure Dumbledore won't make it. And seeing that he told Harry about the prophecy in book 5 and that he could show his powers in the end, I wouldn't be surprised at all, if book 6 will be his swan song. I think most villains will be dead in the end, Bella, Voldie, Peter and probably Lucius, too. Snape is high on my to die list as well, as is Molly Weasley. I have a bad feeling about Seamus because he wasn't in the DA (except for one lesson) and might be less prepared. And my last guess on the "to die" list is Trelawney, but not before she made a third prophecy.
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Weeny Owl - Jun 20, 2004 3:23 pm (#4 of 1297)
I'm not sure Dumbledore has the power to "give" the post to anyone since there's a Board of Governors.
Assuming Professor McGonagall survives, since she is Deputy Headmistress, it stands to reason that she would take over, and perhaps Snape, if he survives, would become Deputy Headmaster.
As for who will die?
I see Dumbledore, Lupin, Wormtail, either Fred or George, at least one other Weasley except Ron and Ginny, at least one professor, and at least one member of the Order.
I see the six from the Department of Mysteries battle living, although I can see permanent injuries to one or more.
As for the Death Eaters and their children, I think either Lucius or Draco will die, and either Crabbe and Goyle or their sons. I'm not sure about Nott and his son.
I think Bella will die, and it could be at the hands of Neville, although I wouldn't wish him to kill anyone since he's such a sweetie.
There are plenty of Ministry employees who might die, and I only hope Amelia Bones isn't one of them.
Other than that, pretty much anyone could die, and no matter how I feel about specific characters, there are some I hope I'm wrong about.
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Mellilot Flower. - Jun 20, 2004 3:49 pm (#5 of 1297)
Pixie led
I don't think either of the wealsey twins should die, but I think someone from ravenclaw must die becuase it is too easy for someone from gryffinidor to die, and we've already had cedric from hufflepuff so my thoughts there was padma patil.
I think that Molly and DD have to die so that Harry can face Voldemort... Molly will hold him back and DD will try to protect him...
I don't think Lupin can die, I think one of the marauders must remain and who better than the one who'll be in most pain?
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Star Crossed - Jun 20, 2004 4:07 pm (#6 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
A lot of people want Molly, DD, and Lupin to die. What would that prove? Never have anyone feel like a parent because that means they'll die?
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Mellilot Flower. - Jun 20, 2004 4:18 pm (#7 of 1297)
Pixie led
No... it's so that Harry is left on his own.
Since finding out that he is a wizard he has encountered many would-be-parent figures, and since the series is about Harry Potter many feel that he must learn to stand alone and fight, he did this to an extent in GoF, but he had the wandghosts of his parents, Frank Bryce, the witch whose name I can't remember and Cedric, not to mention Fawkes' reassuring song. In book five he never truly faced voldemort directly by himself because Dumbledore got in the way.
People feel that Harry has to show himself to be himself, he mannaged to survive the Dursleys and growing up without parental figures and so he has been prepared to face life and just about everything without parents
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Liz - Jun 20, 2004 5:59 pm (#8 of 1297)
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Harry facing Voldie as himself eh?
I like it. I think with DD gone Harry would finally get a chance to end this stuff.
Not that I wont miss DD because I'll probably cry over that death too.
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Ginevra - Jun 20, 2004 10:12 pm (#9 of 1297)
In my opinion, I can't see any of the six from the DOM battle dying. Unfortunately I think that Dumbledore will die once he has taught Harry everything he needs to defeat Voldemort. Since Arthur Weasley has already sustained a serious injury, I do not see him dying, however, I think Molly is a possibility. I really hope that Lupin does not die. I can see Tonks getting it... and If Voldemort ever found out about Snape's duplicity he would definitely be dead...
As for the bad guys I think Voldemort, Peter, Bella, and Draco. Overall, I think it will be a lot worse for the Order than the DE's.
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Weeny Owl - Jun 20, 2004 10:23 pm (#10 of 1297)
I don't think it's a matter of WANTING Dumbledore, Molly, or Lupin to die, but predicting which character seems most likely to be one of the ones JKR kills off.
Lupin is my favorite character and I hope JKR doesn't kill him off, but considering the history of the Marauders, it seems that he will be in danger much more than other characters.
In an interview, JKR said Dumbledore was around 150. He's looking increasingly tired and old, and whether or not he dies in battle or from natural causes, him being around much longer isn't likely.
With nine Weasleys and the fact that they're known as Muggle lovers, the odds are against all of them surviving. Even if no one dies at the hands of Death Eaters, Charlie is dealing with dragons and could easily have a fatal accident.
The war is coming and there will be casualties on both sides, so predicting only Death Eaters or those we think are Voldie sympathizers isn't realistic from a literary point of view.
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Isenduil - Jun 21, 2004 12:08 am (#11 of 1297)
I have to agree with Elizabeth Westbrook about Lupin because of the silver hand thing.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 21, 2004 2:55 am (#12 of 1297)
I don't think that Lupin will die - the silver hand is too obvious. I think Percy is a possibility. Redemption through self sacrifice. Do the Weasley children know that some of their relatives (the Prewitts) died at the hands of Death Eaters? As for Dumbledore dying - too Star Wars.
I can't see Bella dying either. How about Hermione or Luna becoming her Nemisis?
But I have this strong feeling that either Hermione or Ron is going to die. It needs to be this strong to impact on Harry. Other than Lupin, Dumbledore, Neville, Cho, or one of Ron's family no one is close enough.
But don't rule out the death of Petunia. Would Voldemort think her death would remove Harry's protection? Or the death of Dudley force Petunia to kick Harry out?
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popkin - Jun 21, 2004 3:01 am (#13 of 1297)
mother
Edited by Jun 21, 2004 3:04 am
I think McGonnagal predicted her own early death when she promised Harry she would do everything in her power to help him become an auror if it was the last thing she did (paraphrase).
I would hate it if either of the twins dies, so I am predicting they will live - maybe their mutual friend Lee Jordan will die, though.
I think that most of the people who die will be those that we have not gotten to know well or don't like all that much - like the Creevy brothers (whom I adore, actually), Karkaroff, various centaurs (Bane), Aragog, Kreachur, Madame Rosmerta or other shop keepers, and maybe even a few muggles (like Piers Polkiss).
I think Snape might end up saving Harry's life and dying in the process. If a Weasley is going to die in the series, I predict Percy - who could hold a grudge against him if he dies in battle trying to save one of his family?
Ludo Bagman will probably die before the series is out, but not before he does something particularly nasty. And, of course, Peter and Voldemort will have to die before the end.
Dumbledore will probably die before the end of book seven, but I think his death will be beautifully written and will be a great tribute to his saintly life.
I'm not sure that Bella will die. I more see her having her soul sucked out by a dementor or something like that. Maybe Neville will capture her and she will stand trial. At any rate, her fate will probably rest in Neville's hands.
I think all six of the kids who battled in the DOM will outlive the series. It would ruin the books for me if any of the trio died, so I'm predicting they will live.
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Chemyst - Jun 21, 2004 5:44 am (#14 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
There certainly has been enough foreshadowing to suspect that Dumbledore might die before the end, however, I'm not ready to predict that. The event that changed my mind was his grand stand in the ministry atrium at the end of OP. We have been there and done that now, so I don't think there will be another face-off between the two. If he dies at all, I think he will be the master of his own fate, perhaps choosing to walk through the veil so others might be spared -- or something like it. But Rowling will try to avoid making him into an Obi-Wan Kenobi copy-cat. I'd hope he survives mortal peril and enjoys a happy retirement with his socks.
I don't think Peter will kill Lupin. I think that is being set up as a plot twist. Peter was in Gryfindor, but we have yet to see any real courage from him. I am hopeful that he will find the courage to defy Voldemort. I imagine a scene that parallels Cedric's death, only this time, when the dark lord says "Kill the wolf," instead of "Kill the spare," Peter says no. Defying Voldemort could be the end of Peter though! Peter will die.
I think Ron will come very close to being killed, but will survive. I also think the Hand Of Glory will show up again in one of the last two books. (There are a lot of variant HoG stories, some where the hand holds a candle and others where flames burn directly from the finger tips. But in all of them, as long as the flame burns, the occupants of the house are under a charmed sleep and cannot wake up.) This may be movie contamination, but after seeing Ron dreaming in PoA, I'd venture a guess that he will be the one sleeping until someone or something blows out the flame in the nick of time.
It seems likely that at some point, there will be an attack on the Hogwarts grounds. This will probably kill off several peripheral students and possibly Gwarp. I do think Gwarp will die.
I think some shopkeeper(s), either in Hogsmeade or Diagon Alley, will be attacked and die. If there is some kind of attack in the retail/financial sector, then the goblins will get involved. (I don't think this would be Fred or George though-- it would heighten the terror; a shopkeeper's death might make them realize vulnerable they are and make Molly worry even more.) It could possibly be Mr. Olivander. Just about every wizard in the UK would know him, and that would have a lot of impact. Other possible victims would be Tom at the Leaky Cauldron, the barkeep at the Hog's Head, or a terrorist attack on the Knight bus.
Cornelius Fudge. If the DEs take him out, no wizard will feel safe. Or his own stupidity could make him the victim of friendly fire.
Bella Lestrange, at the minimum she gets the living-death of a dementor's kiss.
The Malfoys are positioned to take a hit. If JKR wants to hurt the DEs it would be Lucius, but if she needs to put Draco into an emotional tailspin it would be Narcissa.
Winky. Her split loyalties may send her right into the line of fire.
At least one member of the Order. Probably one who was not in the Order originally, who is relatively young with a lot to live for, and with whom HRH can identify easily.
IF the fan theories about the Longbottoms are correct and they are being kept mentally ill intentionally, then some St. Mungo's staff will die.
Is it possible for a portrait to die?
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Loopy Lupin - Jun 21, 2004 6:27 am (#15 of 1297)
Because I think the elfs will, eventually play a large role in the coming war, I think Dobby is a cert to fall in battle. In some ways, that will be sadder than most anyone's death. Dobby, at least since being freed, has shown nothing but full loyalty to Harry.
The Weasley's: In OoP, Molly says that it will be a miracle if her whole family comes through this alive. I am inclined to think that the Weasley's will get such a miracle; I am certain they deserve it. Still, if JKR feels the need to show the costs and tragedy of war by killing a Weasley or two, I believe it will be Bill or Charlie. Obviously, that would be devasting to the family, but from a literary stand point wouldn't change the mechanics of the story too much since they, Bill or Charlie, are usually "off-screen."
Dumbledore-- I don't think DD dying would be too "Star Wars"-ish as someone commented earlier. If he had died in book one or two, then maybe I'd agree, but this story is (*sniff) winding down here. He'll certainly die and, quite possibly, in the next book.
Neville will kill (or somehow be responsible for) Bellatrix.
I also think Dean and Seamus will be killed in battle.
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Justin Rapp - Jun 21, 2004 8:44 am (#16 of 1297)
I'm 45% obsessed! (Only 45? ô¿ô )
I think one of the trio has to die, namely Ron, probably not Hermione because JKR has said numerous times how much she likes her.
I don't think Draco will die, and I am sort of getting the feeling that he and Harry have to end up being friends becuase of the Sorting Hat's new song talking about the best friend pair of Godric Gryffindor and Salazar Slytherin. Possibly, if both Lucius and Narcissa die, it will humble Draco, and make him a little more tolerant, I guess, and won't be as cruel towards Harry anymore.
I think Percy will die. JKR has said in interviews, I believe, and told Chris Rankin (actor of Percy in the movies), that Percy will redeem himself, and let's face it, what's the ideal redemption if its not being a martyr?
Some magical creatures are going to die, as some people have already said, because I think they need to figuartively rebuild the fountain of magical brethen in the real world. I think something will happen to help bring the goblins and centaurs back into closer ties with the ww. The house-elves are pretty much on good terms with the ww, but I think one will still die, and cause the other ones to come out with such magic and force, becuase we know they do have it, just don't show it.
JKR has said that there will be a new minister of magic. Maybe Fudge wants to get some more attention, or popularity ratings by helping DD, and he goes and gets himself killed. That would be nice. I can't stand that attention seeking prat.
I like what a lot of people have said about NEville and Bella. If he doesn't kill her himself, then maybe he (ready for this?) surprises everyone, especially Snape, and concocts a potion to cure Frank and Alice's suffering, and they come out to finish off Bella. That would be really nice.
As to the whole Harry/Voldemort death business, I don't even want to try to predict anything because I have no idea. I don't know if JKR wants to take the cliche road out of things, or if she wants to write an anti-happy ending fairytale. So that one will just have to be settled in book 7.
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Loopy Lupin - Jun 21, 2004 10:02 am (#17 of 1297)
I like what a lot of people have said about NEville and Bella. If he doesn't kill her himself, then maybe he (ready for this?) surprises everyone, especially Snape, and concocts a potion to cure Frank and Alice's suffering, and they come out to finish off Bella. That would be really nice. -- Justin Rapp
I like it; and I think the key secret ingredient to that potion would be some stinksap from a Mibulus Mimbletonia!
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Bertha Jorkins - Jun 21, 2004 1:50 pm (#18 of 1297)
Deresa
This may sound silly but what does a Silver Hand have to do with it. Please explain.... Thanks
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Mellilot Flower. - Jun 21, 2004 2:03 pm (#19 of 1297)
Pixie led
Silver, in folklore is one of the few things that will kill a werewolf, usually a silver bullet or arrow, though fire and wolfsbane are also used.
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popkin - Jun 21, 2004 3:55 pm (#20 of 1297)
mother
Justin, I like it, too. It has always seemed to me that herbology and potion making would go hand in hand, and Neville did seem to do all right on his potions O.W.L. I also like his parents taking Bella down. Maybe the three of them can do it together.
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Czarina II - Jun 21, 2004 8:19 pm (#21 of 1297)
My thoughts on who will die:
- I have to say Voldemort will die. That is rather obvious. I don't think JKR would have Harry die and Voldemort win! Still, Harry could die at the end of Bk7 shortly after or in the process of killing Voldemort. Otherwise, I don't think Harry will die. He is the star of the series, after all.
- I don't think Ron will die. He might come VERY close to doing so, though. I can see him being revived out of a coma at the end.
- Hermione and Ginny won't die. Luna might, probably not.
- Neville might die, but it is far more likely that he will kill Bellatrix or one of the Lestrange brothers instead. Those three three are going to bite the dust for sure.
- At least one member of the DA will die. Who? No idea.
- At least one other Order member will die. Tonks? Likely, though if Neville doesn't kill Bellatrix, I hope she does! Lupin? Maybe, hope not. Wormtail is going to die, so I think Lupin would be the last surviving Marauder.
- Lucius and Narcissa Malfoy will probably both die. Draco? Only if he really deserved it. As it stands, no matter how much of a git he is, he still doesn't deserve to die yet.
- One of the Weasleys? Highly likely, unless part of JKR anti-prejudice theme extends to the only wizard family intact being the Weasleys. In order of their likelihood of death: Percy, Arthur, Charlie, Bill, Molly, Fred&George, (Ron), (Ginny)
- I don't think Dumbledore will die at all. McGonagall, perhaps. Still unlikely.
- Snape -- definitely.
I think the list is long enough for now. I don't think I added much new to the discussion though.
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Chris. - Jun 23, 2004 7:37 am (#22 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
My ideas on who is going to die:
Firstly, even though JKR teases us about the possibility of Harry dying, I do not think it will happen. She would have to go into hiding if she killed off the world's most favourite wizard! As for Voldemort, he's had his run and I think he will die.
I think most of the Death Eaters will die, including Bellatrix, the Lestrange brothers and Lucius Malfoy. I think they've been too evil to live and I hope the families they have done bad to get them back.
If one of the Trio were to die, I would be leaning towards Ron. I like Ron an' all but sometimes, I think he can be a bit annoying.
I think Dumbledore will die in Book Seven, in his sleep hopefully with some nice woollen bed socks on. . I don't want to see McGonagall getting killed, even after what she said in OP. I like her character, and I think Hogwarts would be a boring place without her.
A few members of the Order who I see snuffing it are Kingsley Shacklebolt, Mundungus Fletcher and maybe Aberforth Dumbledore, after we meet him. I think he may die through something to do with Goblins.
That's my list.
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Casey - Jun 23, 2004 10:31 am (#23 of 1297)
I think we're going to lose a Weasley. I've always felt that at least one of them would die before the end.
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Star Crossed - Jun 23, 2004 12:19 pm (#24 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Lots of people think DD might die because he's old. There is older people in the WW. Unfortunately, I don't have my books, but for O. W. L.'s, they brought in a woman who tested DD in N. E. W. T.'s!
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Neville Longbottom - Jun 23, 2004 1:55 pm (#25 of 1297)
That's Griselda Marchbanks. Yes, she's older. But I still think Dumbledore will die. Not because he's old, but because he has to make room for Harry. And because Voldie would never attack Hogwarts with old Dumbledore around. And I am sure Voldie will attack Hogwarts. Therefore Dumbledore has to go.
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popkin - Jun 23, 2004 1:55 pm (#26 of 1297)
mother
Edited by Jun 23, 2004 1:57 pm
Madame Marchbanks. And, I bet she was old then, too.
EDIT: We posted at the same time, Neville. My post was a reply to Star Crossed.
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Potions Mistress - Jun 23, 2004 2:19 pm (#27 of 1297)
Politicians and diapers need to be changed for the same reason.--Anon.
My guesses: -I'd be very surprised if all the Weasleys came through, but I think it'll be Ron and/or Fred and/or George (how would one of the twins deal with losing their other half?) -I think Dobby will bite the big one, probably standing up to a DE or defending Harry. -Voldemort: I think everyone will have learned their lesson from last time...
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Padfoot - Jun 23, 2004 3:50 pm (#28 of 1297)
Edited by Jun 23, 2004 3:50 pm
My list of who will die:
Voldemort
Many of the DE's (not all, some will be incarcerated/St. Mungo's/rehabilitated)
Dumbledore (not from old age)(Giant Squid will be seen no more)
Snape
Lesser Order members (but not all)
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JasonS - Jun 23, 2004 6:46 pm (#29 of 1297)
Student/Harry Fan
I think Snape will end up dying. I think he was the one who informed Voldemort about the prophecy and had a change of heart, so he is responsible for Harry's parent's death. He still owes something to Harry's dad. It could be why he hates Harry so much.
I also think Dumbledore will die thus making Hogwarts vulnerable to attack and that the final battle between Harry and Voldemort will be on the grounds, I am thinking in the entrance. I don't think Dumbledore will die in battle, (I don't think Tom can kill him) but that he will just not wake up one day.
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Star Crossed - Jun 23, 2004 7:17 pm (#30 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't think Snape could have given Voldemort the prophecy. I think DD would have noticed him. I think it was Pettigrew because he could have just transformed into a rat, and then when he was caught, he could scurry.
Also, why won't he wake up? From old age? Like I said a few posts earlier, there are older people than him. Don't forget PoA that really old dude came with MacNair. He seemed to be older than DD, too.
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Chris. - Jun 24, 2004 3:13 am (#31 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Don't forget PoA that really old dude came with MacNair. He seemed to be older than DD, too.-Star Crossed
"Really old dude"?, Is this the movies we're talking about here? In the books, it's MacNair and Fudge that come for the execution. Hagrid and Dumbledore are there also.
I want to see a wizard or witch dying of old age, seeing as there must be one that does, and not in battle. Yes, Nicolas Flamel did die but we didn't actually know him. Harry needs to understand that death is life's next great adventure and that not all deaths are a sign of pain and suffering.
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Star Crossed - Jun 24, 2004 7:07 am (#32 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Edited by Jun 24, 2004 7:08 am
Aha! Knew it was smart to invest in a paperback copy of PoA, as well as my hardcover.
A group of men was walking down the distant castle steps. In front was Albus Dumbledore, his silver beard gleaming in the dying sun. Next to him trotted Corneilus Fudge. Behind them came the feeble old Committee member and the executioner, Macnair. (pg 412 - paperback - PoA)
He's mentioned again, only asking where the 'beast' was. I really don't see the point of him being there, if Fudge is there, unless he's supposed to show how old people can be. I swear he somewhere said "Goodness me, I'm getting too old for this job." and something about what time it was. Oh well.
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Chris. - Jun 24, 2004 7:09 am (#33 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Oh, that one! - I knew that!
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Accio Book Six - Jun 24, 2004 8:53 am (#34 of 1297)
You sparked a bit of imagination in my mind with the whole 'Dumbledore just not waking up one day'... What if Snape gets tired of Dumbledore (we already know he doesn't always agree with him and almost seems annoyed with him quite often) and concocts a Draught of Eternal Sleep potion (or whatever it's called.) Dumbledore's out of the way, and it would be easy, because Snape is trusted by Dumbledore and is good at Occlumency, so Dumbledore wouldn't know what he's up to. This would leave the path clear for Voldemort to come to the school, kill random kids or teachers that got in his way and find Harry.
I'm not QUITE sure whether to believe myself yet though, as I still have a LITTLE bit of trust left in me. I, too, think that Snape will die though. I think the Weasleys will survive the whole ordeal. I think Bellatrix, Voldemort, and some other DEs will die. I think some order members will die, but not any REALLY important ones. Apart from that, I'm not sure. Actually, I have a hunch that maybe Ginny will die... but that would be too sad so I won't think about that.
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Fawkes Forever - Jun 24, 2004 8:55 am (#35 of 1297)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Oh reading these posts I've heard myself say a few times... no, no, I don't want them to die.. but it is inevitable, there is a war coming in books 6 & 7, and more wizards & muggles are going to die. *sob*
However, I don't think JK is going to kill off any of the trio. Being honest I don't think I could quite handle that... it would make any re-reads too sad. Not only do I feel this in my gut... but also from from reading some interviews with JK, I think that I might just be right. Before OotP was released, JK spoke about deaths in the future books ...
“More people are going to die. One death is going to be horrible to write. IT HAS TO BE.”
(From JK Rowling: Harry Potter and Me Special -- [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Then in the pre OotP hype, JK made it known that there would be a significant & horrible death in OotP :
(taken from BBC Newsnight, Jeremy Paxman's interview with JK Rowling -- [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] )
JP: And is there going to be a death in this book?
JKR: Yes. A horrible, horrible
JP: A horrible death of a significant figure.
...
JKR: Yeah. Well I had re-written the death, re-written it and that was it. It was definitive. And the person was definitely dead. And I walked into the kitchen crying and Neil said to me, "What on earth is wrong?" and I said, "Well, I've just killed the person". Neil doesn't know who the person is. But I said, "I've just killed the person. And he said, "Well, don't do it then." I thought, a doctor you know... and I said "Well it just doesn't work like that. You are writing children's books, you need to be a ruthless killer."
JP: Is it going to upset people?
JKR: Yes. It upset me. I always knew it was coming, but I managed to live in denial, and carry on with the character and not think about it.
Ok, so before OotP she said there was one death that was going to be "horrible to write"... but it "HAS TO BE". Then when talking about OotP, she told of the "horrible death" she had just written.
That leads me to believe that the horrible death she was talking about in both interviews was that of Sirius. So, if she was planning to kill off one of the trio, why not say... 'there are going to be a couple more deaths that are going to be horrible to write' instead of saying one. We know she was very upset when she wrote Sirius death, so would she not be more so if she were to write the death of a character so well loved as Harry, Ron or Hermione? I can hardly see her being so callous about killing off one of the trio.... like 'Oh yeah there will be another few deaths in book 6 & 7... not as nasty as Sirius... just Ron & Hermione ya know... noone special' Here's hoping I'm right anyways....
Those who I do see that have victim written all over them are :
Moody - he was one of the first down in the DoM Battle. Some comments were made about him not being as strong as he used to be. In a future encounter with the Death Eaters, I don't see Moody making it out alive, but in true Moody style, he'll take a few Death Eaters with him.
Tonks - as the youngest auror & member of the Order (if Fred & George haven't joined by now), then it would be all the more tragic if her 'young life was cut short'. She would be a casualty of war... not unsimilar to the young soldiers killed in several of our 20th century (& indeed 21st century) Wars. Which would drive home the message of the harshness & futility of war.
Mr & Mrs Granger - lets face it, we know very little about Hermiones parents, other than they are dentists & are muggles. Worryingly Hermione spends more time with the Weasleys than her parents... (but I suppose that's because they don't belong in the magic world... so she identifies with the Weasleys more). However I just never liked the way Lucius singled the Grangers out in both CoS the book & the movie. I think they are vulnerable, but disposable, so I feel like something bad will happen them. Of course this would have a detrimental effect on Hermione... Also the whole... 'the muggles will start to notice' theme. What could be more obvious than a house blown to bits by a group of Death Eaters
Percy Weasley - the whole redemption vibe going on, plus his reaction to Ron in the lake in GoF... one of genuine concern. He'll probably redeem himself by sacrifising himself to save a sibling or parent However, I'd prefer not to see the Weasley family lose a member, but perhaps Percy, Bill or Charlie are the most likely candidates.
Peter Pettigrew - well, he has to get his comeuppance at some stage... all that betrayal .... he's got to go Also my reasoning that Lupin will live (please). It would be too sad if we lost all the Maurauders .... then again, it could happen. *sniff*
Lucius Malfoy - will probably be killed in the final battle.... preferably by a nice curse from Arthur Weasley.
Thats just my 2 knuts worth
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Accio Book Six - Jun 24, 2004 10:36 am (#36 of 1297)
I think that we haven't heard the last of that life-debt Peter has for Harry. I think that he might save Harry's life at some point, and die because of it.
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Padfoot - Jun 24, 2004 12:34 pm (#37 of 1297)
I forgot about Wormtail! Of course he is going to die. However he dies, it will benefit Harry somehow. (Although Harry will not kill him).
I think the trio and Weasley family will live. However if someone were to be snuffed, then I would guess Percy.
After reading everyone's lists, I think we are going to need a box of kleenex when we read book 7.
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Justin Rapp - Jun 24, 2004 1:08 pm (#38 of 1297)
I'm 45% obsessed! (Only 45? ô¿ô )
I believe somewhere, Fawkes, maybe in the CoS movie interview with Steve Kloves, JKR said that she was dubious about having an American being the screenwriter. When he first contacted her, she asked him who his favorite character was. She said something to the effect that if he had said Ron, she would have been very unhappy (he answered Hermione). Why is she distrusting of people who like Ron? I think she is a little bit upset with Ron's character, maybe, and will kill him off (doing something heroically, of course, because she obviously does like him, even if it's just a little bit).
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Star Crossed - Jun 24, 2004 2:42 pm (#39 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I never heard that before, Justin. Where did you find it?
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PIJ - Jun 25, 2004 2:02 am (#40 of 1297)
Don't shoot me down in flames here but tracking along the wormtail thread of ideas.
I don't have the refrences to hand - however - in the rebirth of Voldie Peter sacrifices a hand to bring him back, harry gives blood and then there is the bone of his father. Looking at the prophecy neither Voldie or Harry can survive whilst the other is around (my interpretation) so could it be that by using Harry's blood this has sealed the prophecy.
If this is the case then if Peter where to die having sacrificed his hand would this impact Voldie in some way??
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Accio Book Six - Jun 25, 2004 6:01 am (#41 of 1297)
Hmmmm... I don't know, PIJ... I mean, if using a bit of Harry's blood will make a huge connection between them, then surely having a servant sacrifice a hand is as well. I think that Peter will have a big part in the future. I mean, he got this nifty hand in GoF and then he was nowhere to be seen in OoP.
I really think his purpose will either be in the downfall of Voldemort or the survival of Harry. And that hand of his will help him somehow.
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JasonS - Jun 25, 2004 7:59 am (#42 of 1297)
Student/Harry Fan
My other predicition on who will die in book 6 & 7 - Errol the Weasely family owl. The poor owl has been right at deaths door. I actually would be sad if he finally died.
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Chris. - Jun 25, 2004 10:00 am (#43 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't want Errol to die! I like him, even though we've only seen him a couple of times.
I had forgotten about Peter/Wormtail too, but I don't think he will murder Lupin with his silvery hand. That wouldn't be JKR, although she may be leading us to believe it will happen. I want Moony to be the last Marauder.
I don't know why, and I know there has to be a enemy for Harry, except Voldemort but I think (I said think, not hope Draco-fans! ) Draco will meet his match in either Ron or Neville.
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Accio Book Six - Jun 25, 2004 11:53 am (#44 of 1297)
I don't think that Lupin will die at all, ESPECIALLY not to a horrible wizard like Peter. Besides, are wizards even able to simply conjure up pure silver like that? I know they can't conjure gold, so who knows... I know the hand is silver LOOKING, I don't think that it is really silver.
I think that Errol might like it better to quietly pass... or at least retire. It would be nice if the Weasley family got another owl and Errol could live out his days snacking on owl treats and going on non-strenuous flights.
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Madam Pince - Jun 25, 2004 4:28 pm (#45 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Let's see, here's my list of major characters (subject to revision, of course.)
Ones Who Are Toast: Dumbledore - so that Harry will be alone to face Voldy. Don't think he will be killed though; I liked (someone's?) earlier idea that he steps through the veil on his own in order to facilitate something.
Percy - the whole martyr/redemption thing
Fudge - too dim to live; punishment for being overly ambitious
Wormtail - will be killed by Voldy for refusing an order to 'off' Harry
Voldemort - naturally!
And the dark horse in this category: Snape - who will die saving Harry towards the end of Book 7, thus proving he was not such a bad guy after all, and fulfilling his debt to James.
Ones Who Will Definitely Make It: Harry, Ron, Hermione - don't think JKR can do it. She likes to tease us, but she clearly felt Sirius' death was the worst one ever (see earlier post) so surely the Trio must live.
Hagrid - It would be too much like clubbing a baby seal.
Draco - he will switch sides at a critical juncture, thus fulfilling the "re-joining of the houses" thing, and be Harry's friend.
Bellatrix - she will be captured by Neville and probably have her soul sucked out by dementors, but will technically "survive."
Could Go Either Way: McGonnagal - That auror quote of hers worries me.
Arthur and/or Molly - Hmmmmm. Not sure. Would help Ron and Harry relate even more.
Dobby - He's just so loyal, it worries me that he'll do something drastic to try to help Harry.
In general, I pretty much agree with Popkin and Justin Rapp in their earlier posts. I think there will be a lot more deaths, but they will be what I consider to be "minor" characters, like Grawp or Seamus or Cho for instance, or Order members, or possibly some muggles.
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popkin - Jun 25, 2004 4:32 pm (#46 of 1297)
mother
And Winky - with some kind of a major deathbed confession.
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Madam Pince - Jun 25, 2004 4:35 pm (#47 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Yeah, that's good too.
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Neville Longbottom - Jun 25, 2004 4:45 pm (#48 of 1297)
Morgan Godfery, I am not a moderator or anything, so I can't really say anything. But can you please use some punctuation? As someone whose mothertongue isn't english, I find your posts really hard to read.
Thank you.
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sewfuninme - Jun 26, 2004 1:20 pm (#49 of 1297)
I have three deaths in particular that I think will happen:
Lupin - recall what Ron said about a simple hex doing Lupin in on the Hogwarts Express in PoA. (No, please don't let it be true!)
Arthur and Molly - Lupin's response to Molly's fear of what would happen to Ron and Ginny if something were to happen to Arthur and Molly.
Other possibilities that sound likely:
McGonagall - just because it would have a big impact
Snape - trying to save Harry
Those are my more concrete speculations on deaths.
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Catherine - Jun 27, 2004 6:21 am (#50 of 1297)
Canon Seeker
I think that Hagrid will not last the series. I think he will die to try to save a student, or Dumbledore. If not Hagrid, I think Grawp will be the casualty. We've had too many discussions about Giant prejudice for us not to see another Giant die.
Firenze is marked, and the Centaurs are angry. We already know that Firenze will do what is right, not what is easy, and I could see him dying for a greater good.
As for students, I worry about Dennis Creevey.
Other characters who I think may not last are Viktor Krum and Karkaroff. Karkaroff is already on a hit list with Voldemort and the other Death Eaters. Viktor has already been shown "winning the battle, but not the war." I could see him fighting bravely, but succumbing in the end.
As for the Order members, I wouldn't be surprised if Moody dies. He doesn't have that many body parts left.
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I think Lupin is going to die at the hand of wormtail, as he's a ware wolf and now Peter has a silver hand. To me it makes sense.
Does it make sense to others?
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MadEye - Jun 20, 2004 3:00 pm (#2 of 1297)
Who would Dumbledore give his post to, before he died?
- McGonagall: no, too predictable - Dumbledore never is.
- Harry: no, he'd still be too young.
- Snape: Yes. You know it makes sense.
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Neville Longbottom - Jun 20, 2004 3:21 pm (#3 of 1297)
I am absolutely sure Dumbledore won't make it. And seeing that he told Harry about the prophecy in book 5 and that he could show his powers in the end, I wouldn't be surprised at all, if book 6 will be his swan song. I think most villains will be dead in the end, Bella, Voldie, Peter and probably Lucius, too. Snape is high on my to die list as well, as is Molly Weasley. I have a bad feeling about Seamus because he wasn't in the DA (except for one lesson) and might be less prepared. And my last guess on the "to die" list is Trelawney, but not before she made a third prophecy.
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Weeny Owl - Jun 20, 2004 3:23 pm (#4 of 1297)
I'm not sure Dumbledore has the power to "give" the post to anyone since there's a Board of Governors.
Assuming Professor McGonagall survives, since she is Deputy Headmistress, it stands to reason that she would take over, and perhaps Snape, if he survives, would become Deputy Headmaster.
As for who will die?
I see Dumbledore, Lupin, Wormtail, either Fred or George, at least one other Weasley except Ron and Ginny, at least one professor, and at least one member of the Order.
I see the six from the Department of Mysteries battle living, although I can see permanent injuries to one or more.
As for the Death Eaters and their children, I think either Lucius or Draco will die, and either Crabbe and Goyle or their sons. I'm not sure about Nott and his son.
I think Bella will die, and it could be at the hands of Neville, although I wouldn't wish him to kill anyone since he's such a sweetie.
There are plenty of Ministry employees who might die, and I only hope Amelia Bones isn't one of them.
Other than that, pretty much anyone could die, and no matter how I feel about specific characters, there are some I hope I'm wrong about.
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Mellilot Flower. - Jun 20, 2004 3:49 pm (#5 of 1297)
Pixie led
I don't think either of the wealsey twins should die, but I think someone from ravenclaw must die becuase it is too easy for someone from gryffinidor to die, and we've already had cedric from hufflepuff so my thoughts there was padma patil.
I think that Molly and DD have to die so that Harry can face Voldemort... Molly will hold him back and DD will try to protect him...
I don't think Lupin can die, I think one of the marauders must remain and who better than the one who'll be in most pain?
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Star Crossed - Jun 20, 2004 4:07 pm (#6 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
A lot of people want Molly, DD, and Lupin to die. What would that prove? Never have anyone feel like a parent because that means they'll die?
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Mellilot Flower. - Jun 20, 2004 4:18 pm (#7 of 1297)
Pixie led
No... it's so that Harry is left on his own.
Since finding out that he is a wizard he has encountered many would-be-parent figures, and since the series is about Harry Potter many feel that he must learn to stand alone and fight, he did this to an extent in GoF, but he had the wandghosts of his parents, Frank Bryce, the witch whose name I can't remember and Cedric, not to mention Fawkes' reassuring song. In book five he never truly faced voldemort directly by himself because Dumbledore got in the way.
People feel that Harry has to show himself to be himself, he mannaged to survive the Dursleys and growing up without parental figures and so he has been prepared to face life and just about everything without parents
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Liz - Jun 20, 2004 5:59 pm (#8 of 1297)
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Harry facing Voldie as himself eh?
I like it. I think with DD gone Harry would finally get a chance to end this stuff.
Not that I wont miss DD because I'll probably cry over that death too.
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Ginevra - Jun 20, 2004 10:12 pm (#9 of 1297)
In my opinion, I can't see any of the six from the DOM battle dying. Unfortunately I think that Dumbledore will die once he has taught Harry everything he needs to defeat Voldemort. Since Arthur Weasley has already sustained a serious injury, I do not see him dying, however, I think Molly is a possibility. I really hope that Lupin does not die. I can see Tonks getting it... and If Voldemort ever found out about Snape's duplicity he would definitely be dead...
As for the bad guys I think Voldemort, Peter, Bella, and Draco. Overall, I think it will be a lot worse for the Order than the DE's.
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Weeny Owl - Jun 20, 2004 10:23 pm (#10 of 1297)
I don't think it's a matter of WANTING Dumbledore, Molly, or Lupin to die, but predicting which character seems most likely to be one of the ones JKR kills off.
Lupin is my favorite character and I hope JKR doesn't kill him off, but considering the history of the Marauders, it seems that he will be in danger much more than other characters.
In an interview, JKR said Dumbledore was around 150. He's looking increasingly tired and old, and whether or not he dies in battle or from natural causes, him being around much longer isn't likely.
With nine Weasleys and the fact that they're known as Muggle lovers, the odds are against all of them surviving. Even if no one dies at the hands of Death Eaters, Charlie is dealing with dragons and could easily have a fatal accident.
The war is coming and there will be casualties on both sides, so predicting only Death Eaters or those we think are Voldie sympathizers isn't realistic from a literary point of view.
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Isenduil - Jun 21, 2004 12:08 am (#11 of 1297)
I have to agree with Elizabeth Westbrook about Lupin because of the silver hand thing.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 21, 2004 2:55 am (#12 of 1297)
I don't think that Lupin will die - the silver hand is too obvious. I think Percy is a possibility. Redemption through self sacrifice. Do the Weasley children know that some of their relatives (the Prewitts) died at the hands of Death Eaters? As for Dumbledore dying - too Star Wars.
I can't see Bella dying either. How about Hermione or Luna becoming her Nemisis?
But I have this strong feeling that either Hermione or Ron is going to die. It needs to be this strong to impact on Harry. Other than Lupin, Dumbledore, Neville, Cho, or one of Ron's family no one is close enough.
But don't rule out the death of Petunia. Would Voldemort think her death would remove Harry's protection? Or the death of Dudley force Petunia to kick Harry out?
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popkin - Jun 21, 2004 3:01 am (#13 of 1297)
mother
Edited by Jun 21, 2004 3:04 am
I think McGonnagal predicted her own early death when she promised Harry she would do everything in her power to help him become an auror if it was the last thing she did (paraphrase).
I would hate it if either of the twins dies, so I am predicting they will live - maybe their mutual friend Lee Jordan will die, though.
I think that most of the people who die will be those that we have not gotten to know well or don't like all that much - like the Creevy brothers (whom I adore, actually), Karkaroff, various centaurs (Bane), Aragog, Kreachur, Madame Rosmerta or other shop keepers, and maybe even a few muggles (like Piers Polkiss).
I think Snape might end up saving Harry's life and dying in the process. If a Weasley is going to die in the series, I predict Percy - who could hold a grudge against him if he dies in battle trying to save one of his family?
Ludo Bagman will probably die before the series is out, but not before he does something particularly nasty. And, of course, Peter and Voldemort will have to die before the end.
Dumbledore will probably die before the end of book seven, but I think his death will be beautifully written and will be a great tribute to his saintly life.
I'm not sure that Bella will die. I more see her having her soul sucked out by a dementor or something like that. Maybe Neville will capture her and she will stand trial. At any rate, her fate will probably rest in Neville's hands.
I think all six of the kids who battled in the DOM will outlive the series. It would ruin the books for me if any of the trio died, so I'm predicting they will live.
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Chemyst - Jun 21, 2004 5:44 am (#14 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
There certainly has been enough foreshadowing to suspect that Dumbledore might die before the end, however, I'm not ready to predict that. The event that changed my mind was his grand stand in the ministry atrium at the end of OP. We have been there and done that now, so I don't think there will be another face-off between the two. If he dies at all, I think he will be the master of his own fate, perhaps choosing to walk through the veil so others might be spared -- or something like it. But Rowling will try to avoid making him into an Obi-Wan Kenobi copy-cat. I'd hope he survives mortal peril and enjoys a happy retirement with his socks.
I don't think Peter will kill Lupin. I think that is being set up as a plot twist. Peter was in Gryfindor, but we have yet to see any real courage from him. I am hopeful that he will find the courage to defy Voldemort. I imagine a scene that parallels Cedric's death, only this time, when the dark lord says "Kill the wolf," instead of "Kill the spare," Peter says no. Defying Voldemort could be the end of Peter though! Peter will die.
I think Ron will come very close to being killed, but will survive. I also think the Hand Of Glory will show up again in one of the last two books. (There are a lot of variant HoG stories, some where the hand holds a candle and others where flames burn directly from the finger tips. But in all of them, as long as the flame burns, the occupants of the house are under a charmed sleep and cannot wake up.) This may be movie contamination, but after seeing Ron dreaming in PoA, I'd venture a guess that he will be the one sleeping until someone or something blows out the flame in the nick of time.
It seems likely that at some point, there will be an attack on the Hogwarts grounds. This will probably kill off several peripheral students and possibly Gwarp. I do think Gwarp will die.
I think some shopkeeper(s), either in Hogsmeade or Diagon Alley, will be attacked and die. If there is some kind of attack in the retail/financial sector, then the goblins will get involved. (I don't think this would be Fred or George though-- it would heighten the terror; a shopkeeper's death might make them realize vulnerable they are and make Molly worry even more.) It could possibly be Mr. Olivander. Just about every wizard in the UK would know him, and that would have a lot of impact. Other possible victims would be Tom at the Leaky Cauldron, the barkeep at the Hog's Head, or a terrorist attack on the Knight bus.
Cornelius Fudge. If the DEs take him out, no wizard will feel safe. Or his own stupidity could make him the victim of friendly fire.
Bella Lestrange, at the minimum she gets the living-death of a dementor's kiss.
The Malfoys are positioned to take a hit. If JKR wants to hurt the DEs it would be Lucius, but if she needs to put Draco into an emotional tailspin it would be Narcissa.
Winky. Her split loyalties may send her right into the line of fire.
At least one member of the Order. Probably one who was not in the Order originally, who is relatively young with a lot to live for, and with whom HRH can identify easily.
IF the fan theories about the Longbottoms are correct and they are being kept mentally ill intentionally, then some St. Mungo's staff will die.
Is it possible for a portrait to die?
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Loopy Lupin - Jun 21, 2004 6:27 am (#15 of 1297)
Because I think the elfs will, eventually play a large role in the coming war, I think Dobby is a cert to fall in battle. In some ways, that will be sadder than most anyone's death. Dobby, at least since being freed, has shown nothing but full loyalty to Harry.
The Weasley's: In OoP, Molly says that it will be a miracle if her whole family comes through this alive. I am inclined to think that the Weasley's will get such a miracle; I am certain they deserve it. Still, if JKR feels the need to show the costs and tragedy of war by killing a Weasley or two, I believe it will be Bill or Charlie. Obviously, that would be devasting to the family, but from a literary stand point wouldn't change the mechanics of the story too much since they, Bill or Charlie, are usually "off-screen."
Dumbledore-- I don't think DD dying would be too "Star Wars"-ish as someone commented earlier. If he had died in book one or two, then maybe I'd agree, but this story is (*sniff) winding down here. He'll certainly die and, quite possibly, in the next book.
Neville will kill (or somehow be responsible for) Bellatrix.
I also think Dean and Seamus will be killed in battle.
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Justin Rapp - Jun 21, 2004 8:44 am (#16 of 1297)
I'm 45% obsessed! (Only 45? ô¿ô )
I think one of the trio has to die, namely Ron, probably not Hermione because JKR has said numerous times how much she likes her.
I don't think Draco will die, and I am sort of getting the feeling that he and Harry have to end up being friends becuase of the Sorting Hat's new song talking about the best friend pair of Godric Gryffindor and Salazar Slytherin. Possibly, if both Lucius and Narcissa die, it will humble Draco, and make him a little more tolerant, I guess, and won't be as cruel towards Harry anymore.
I think Percy will die. JKR has said in interviews, I believe, and told Chris Rankin (actor of Percy in the movies), that Percy will redeem himself, and let's face it, what's the ideal redemption if its not being a martyr?
Some magical creatures are going to die, as some people have already said, because I think they need to figuartively rebuild the fountain of magical brethen in the real world. I think something will happen to help bring the goblins and centaurs back into closer ties with the ww. The house-elves are pretty much on good terms with the ww, but I think one will still die, and cause the other ones to come out with such magic and force, becuase we know they do have it, just don't show it.
JKR has said that there will be a new minister of magic. Maybe Fudge wants to get some more attention, or popularity ratings by helping DD, and he goes and gets himself killed. That would be nice. I can't stand that attention seeking prat.
I like what a lot of people have said about NEville and Bella. If he doesn't kill her himself, then maybe he (ready for this?) surprises everyone, especially Snape, and concocts a potion to cure Frank and Alice's suffering, and they come out to finish off Bella. That would be really nice.
As to the whole Harry/Voldemort death business, I don't even want to try to predict anything because I have no idea. I don't know if JKR wants to take the cliche road out of things, or if she wants to write an anti-happy ending fairytale. So that one will just have to be settled in book 7.
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Loopy Lupin - Jun 21, 2004 10:02 am (#17 of 1297)
I like what a lot of people have said about NEville and Bella. If he doesn't kill her himself, then maybe he (ready for this?) surprises everyone, especially Snape, and concocts a potion to cure Frank and Alice's suffering, and they come out to finish off Bella. That would be really nice. -- Justin Rapp
I like it; and I think the key secret ingredient to that potion would be some stinksap from a Mibulus Mimbletonia!
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Bertha Jorkins - Jun 21, 2004 1:50 pm (#18 of 1297)
Deresa
This may sound silly but what does a Silver Hand have to do with it. Please explain.... Thanks
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Mellilot Flower. - Jun 21, 2004 2:03 pm (#19 of 1297)
Pixie led
Silver, in folklore is one of the few things that will kill a werewolf, usually a silver bullet or arrow, though fire and wolfsbane are also used.
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popkin - Jun 21, 2004 3:55 pm (#20 of 1297)
mother
Justin, I like it, too. It has always seemed to me that herbology and potion making would go hand in hand, and Neville did seem to do all right on his potions O.W.L. I also like his parents taking Bella down. Maybe the three of them can do it together.
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Czarina II - Jun 21, 2004 8:19 pm (#21 of 1297)
My thoughts on who will die:
- I have to say Voldemort will die. That is rather obvious. I don't think JKR would have Harry die and Voldemort win! Still, Harry could die at the end of Bk7 shortly after or in the process of killing Voldemort. Otherwise, I don't think Harry will die. He is the star of the series, after all.
- I don't think Ron will die. He might come VERY close to doing so, though. I can see him being revived out of a coma at the end.
- Hermione and Ginny won't die. Luna might, probably not.
- Neville might die, but it is far more likely that he will kill Bellatrix or one of the Lestrange brothers instead. Those three three are going to bite the dust for sure.
- At least one member of the DA will die. Who? No idea.
- At least one other Order member will die. Tonks? Likely, though if Neville doesn't kill Bellatrix, I hope she does! Lupin? Maybe, hope not. Wormtail is going to die, so I think Lupin would be the last surviving Marauder.
- Lucius and Narcissa Malfoy will probably both die. Draco? Only if he really deserved it. As it stands, no matter how much of a git he is, he still doesn't deserve to die yet.
- One of the Weasleys? Highly likely, unless part of JKR anti-prejudice theme extends to the only wizard family intact being the Weasleys. In order of their likelihood of death: Percy, Arthur, Charlie, Bill, Molly, Fred&George, (Ron), (Ginny)
- I don't think Dumbledore will die at all. McGonagall, perhaps. Still unlikely.
- Snape -- definitely.
I think the list is long enough for now. I don't think I added much new to the discussion though.
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Chris. - Jun 23, 2004 7:37 am (#22 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
My ideas on who is going to die:
Firstly, even though JKR teases us about the possibility of Harry dying, I do not think it will happen. She would have to go into hiding if she killed off the world's most favourite wizard! As for Voldemort, he's had his run and I think he will die.
I think most of the Death Eaters will die, including Bellatrix, the Lestrange brothers and Lucius Malfoy. I think they've been too evil to live and I hope the families they have done bad to get them back.
If one of the Trio were to die, I would be leaning towards Ron. I like Ron an' all but sometimes, I think he can be a bit annoying.
I think Dumbledore will die in Book Seven, in his sleep hopefully with some nice woollen bed socks on. . I don't want to see McGonagall getting killed, even after what she said in OP. I like her character, and I think Hogwarts would be a boring place without her.
A few members of the Order who I see snuffing it are Kingsley Shacklebolt, Mundungus Fletcher and maybe Aberforth Dumbledore, after we meet him. I think he may die through something to do with Goblins.
That's my list.
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Casey - Jun 23, 2004 10:31 am (#23 of 1297)
I think we're going to lose a Weasley. I've always felt that at least one of them would die before the end.
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Star Crossed - Jun 23, 2004 12:19 pm (#24 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Lots of people think DD might die because he's old. There is older people in the WW. Unfortunately, I don't have my books, but for O. W. L.'s, they brought in a woman who tested DD in N. E. W. T.'s!
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Neville Longbottom - Jun 23, 2004 1:55 pm (#25 of 1297)
That's Griselda Marchbanks. Yes, she's older. But I still think Dumbledore will die. Not because he's old, but because he has to make room for Harry. And because Voldie would never attack Hogwarts with old Dumbledore around. And I am sure Voldie will attack Hogwarts. Therefore Dumbledore has to go.
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popkin - Jun 23, 2004 1:55 pm (#26 of 1297)
mother
Edited by Jun 23, 2004 1:57 pm
Madame Marchbanks. And, I bet she was old then, too.
EDIT: We posted at the same time, Neville. My post was a reply to Star Crossed.
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Potions Mistress - Jun 23, 2004 2:19 pm (#27 of 1297)
Politicians and diapers need to be changed for the same reason.--Anon.
My guesses: -I'd be very surprised if all the Weasleys came through, but I think it'll be Ron and/or Fred and/or George (how would one of the twins deal with losing their other half?) -I think Dobby will bite the big one, probably standing up to a DE or defending Harry. -Voldemort: I think everyone will have learned their lesson from last time...
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Padfoot - Jun 23, 2004 3:50 pm (#28 of 1297)
Edited by Jun 23, 2004 3:50 pm
My list of who will die:
Voldemort
Many of the DE's (not all, some will be incarcerated/St. Mungo's/rehabilitated)
Dumbledore (not from old age)(Giant Squid will be seen no more)
Snape
Lesser Order members (but not all)
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JasonS - Jun 23, 2004 6:46 pm (#29 of 1297)
Student/Harry Fan
I think Snape will end up dying. I think he was the one who informed Voldemort about the prophecy and had a change of heart, so he is responsible for Harry's parent's death. He still owes something to Harry's dad. It could be why he hates Harry so much.
I also think Dumbledore will die thus making Hogwarts vulnerable to attack and that the final battle between Harry and Voldemort will be on the grounds, I am thinking in the entrance. I don't think Dumbledore will die in battle, (I don't think Tom can kill him) but that he will just not wake up one day.
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Star Crossed - Jun 23, 2004 7:17 pm (#30 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't think Snape could have given Voldemort the prophecy. I think DD would have noticed him. I think it was Pettigrew because he could have just transformed into a rat, and then when he was caught, he could scurry.
Also, why won't he wake up? From old age? Like I said a few posts earlier, there are older people than him. Don't forget PoA that really old dude came with MacNair. He seemed to be older than DD, too.
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Chris. - Jun 24, 2004 3:13 am (#31 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Don't forget PoA that really old dude came with MacNair. He seemed to be older than DD, too.-Star Crossed
"Really old dude"?, Is this the movies we're talking about here? In the books, it's MacNair and Fudge that come for the execution. Hagrid and Dumbledore are there also.
I want to see a wizard or witch dying of old age, seeing as there must be one that does, and not in battle. Yes, Nicolas Flamel did die but we didn't actually know him. Harry needs to understand that death is life's next great adventure and that not all deaths are a sign of pain and suffering.
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Star Crossed - Jun 24, 2004 7:07 am (#32 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Edited by Jun 24, 2004 7:08 am
Aha! Knew it was smart to invest in a paperback copy of PoA, as well as my hardcover.
A group of men was walking down the distant castle steps. In front was Albus Dumbledore, his silver beard gleaming in the dying sun. Next to him trotted Corneilus Fudge. Behind them came the feeble old Committee member and the executioner, Macnair. (pg 412 - paperback - PoA)
He's mentioned again, only asking where the 'beast' was. I really don't see the point of him being there, if Fudge is there, unless he's supposed to show how old people can be. I swear he somewhere said "Goodness me, I'm getting too old for this job." and something about what time it was. Oh well.
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Chris. - Jun 24, 2004 7:09 am (#33 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Oh, that one! - I knew that!
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Accio Book Six - Jun 24, 2004 8:53 am (#34 of 1297)
You sparked a bit of imagination in my mind with the whole 'Dumbledore just not waking up one day'... What if Snape gets tired of Dumbledore (we already know he doesn't always agree with him and almost seems annoyed with him quite often) and concocts a Draught of Eternal Sleep potion (or whatever it's called.) Dumbledore's out of the way, and it would be easy, because Snape is trusted by Dumbledore and is good at Occlumency, so Dumbledore wouldn't know what he's up to. This would leave the path clear for Voldemort to come to the school, kill random kids or teachers that got in his way and find Harry.
I'm not QUITE sure whether to believe myself yet though, as I still have a LITTLE bit of trust left in me. I, too, think that Snape will die though. I think the Weasleys will survive the whole ordeal. I think Bellatrix, Voldemort, and some other DEs will die. I think some order members will die, but not any REALLY important ones. Apart from that, I'm not sure. Actually, I have a hunch that maybe Ginny will die... but that would be too sad so I won't think about that.
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Fawkes Forever - Jun 24, 2004 8:55 am (#35 of 1297)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Oh reading these posts I've heard myself say a few times... no, no, I don't want them to die.. but it is inevitable, there is a war coming in books 6 & 7, and more wizards & muggles are going to die. *sob*
However, I don't think JK is going to kill off any of the trio. Being honest I don't think I could quite handle that... it would make any re-reads too sad. Not only do I feel this in my gut... but also from from reading some interviews with JK, I think that I might just be right. Before OotP was released, JK spoke about deaths in the future books ...
“More people are going to die. One death is going to be horrible to write. IT HAS TO BE.”
(From JK Rowling: Harry Potter and Me Special -- [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Then in the pre OotP hype, JK made it known that there would be a significant & horrible death in OotP :
(taken from BBC Newsnight, Jeremy Paxman's interview with JK Rowling -- [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] )
JP: And is there going to be a death in this book?
JKR: Yes. A horrible, horrible
JP: A horrible death of a significant figure.
...
JKR: Yeah. Well I had re-written the death, re-written it and that was it. It was definitive. And the person was definitely dead. And I walked into the kitchen crying and Neil said to me, "What on earth is wrong?" and I said, "Well, I've just killed the person". Neil doesn't know who the person is. But I said, "I've just killed the person. And he said, "Well, don't do it then." I thought, a doctor you know... and I said "Well it just doesn't work like that. You are writing children's books, you need to be a ruthless killer."
JP: Is it going to upset people?
JKR: Yes. It upset me. I always knew it was coming, but I managed to live in denial, and carry on with the character and not think about it.
Ok, so before OotP she said there was one death that was going to be "horrible to write"... but it "HAS TO BE". Then when talking about OotP, she told of the "horrible death" she had just written.
That leads me to believe that the horrible death she was talking about in both interviews was that of Sirius. So, if she was planning to kill off one of the trio, why not say... 'there are going to be a couple more deaths that are going to be horrible to write' instead of saying one. We know she was very upset when she wrote Sirius death, so would she not be more so if she were to write the death of a character so well loved as Harry, Ron or Hermione? I can hardly see her being so callous about killing off one of the trio.... like 'Oh yeah there will be another few deaths in book 6 & 7... not as nasty as Sirius... just Ron & Hermione ya know... noone special' Here's hoping I'm right anyways....
Those who I do see that have victim written all over them are :
Moody - he was one of the first down in the DoM Battle. Some comments were made about him not being as strong as he used to be. In a future encounter with the Death Eaters, I don't see Moody making it out alive, but in true Moody style, he'll take a few Death Eaters with him.
Tonks - as the youngest auror & member of the Order (if Fred & George haven't joined by now), then it would be all the more tragic if her 'young life was cut short'. She would be a casualty of war... not unsimilar to the young soldiers killed in several of our 20th century (& indeed 21st century) Wars. Which would drive home the message of the harshness & futility of war.
Mr & Mrs Granger - lets face it, we know very little about Hermiones parents, other than they are dentists & are muggles. Worryingly Hermione spends more time with the Weasleys than her parents... (but I suppose that's because they don't belong in the magic world... so she identifies with the Weasleys more). However I just never liked the way Lucius singled the Grangers out in both CoS the book & the movie. I think they are vulnerable, but disposable, so I feel like something bad will happen them. Of course this would have a detrimental effect on Hermione... Also the whole... 'the muggles will start to notice' theme. What could be more obvious than a house blown to bits by a group of Death Eaters
Percy Weasley - the whole redemption vibe going on, plus his reaction to Ron in the lake in GoF... one of genuine concern. He'll probably redeem himself by sacrifising himself to save a sibling or parent However, I'd prefer not to see the Weasley family lose a member, but perhaps Percy, Bill or Charlie are the most likely candidates.
Peter Pettigrew - well, he has to get his comeuppance at some stage... all that betrayal .... he's got to go Also my reasoning that Lupin will live (please). It would be too sad if we lost all the Maurauders .... then again, it could happen. *sniff*
Lucius Malfoy - will probably be killed in the final battle.... preferably by a nice curse from Arthur Weasley.
Thats just my 2 knuts worth
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Accio Book Six - Jun 24, 2004 10:36 am (#36 of 1297)
I think that we haven't heard the last of that life-debt Peter has for Harry. I think that he might save Harry's life at some point, and die because of it.
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Padfoot - Jun 24, 2004 12:34 pm (#37 of 1297)
I forgot about Wormtail! Of course he is going to die. However he dies, it will benefit Harry somehow. (Although Harry will not kill him).
I think the trio and Weasley family will live. However if someone were to be snuffed, then I would guess Percy.
After reading everyone's lists, I think we are going to need a box of kleenex when we read book 7.
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Justin Rapp - Jun 24, 2004 1:08 pm (#38 of 1297)
I'm 45% obsessed! (Only 45? ô¿ô )
I believe somewhere, Fawkes, maybe in the CoS movie interview with Steve Kloves, JKR said that she was dubious about having an American being the screenwriter. When he first contacted her, she asked him who his favorite character was. She said something to the effect that if he had said Ron, she would have been very unhappy (he answered Hermione). Why is she distrusting of people who like Ron? I think she is a little bit upset with Ron's character, maybe, and will kill him off (doing something heroically, of course, because she obviously does like him, even if it's just a little bit).
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Star Crossed - Jun 24, 2004 2:42 pm (#39 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I never heard that before, Justin. Where did you find it?
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PIJ - Jun 25, 2004 2:02 am (#40 of 1297)
Don't shoot me down in flames here but tracking along the wormtail thread of ideas.
I don't have the refrences to hand - however - in the rebirth of Voldie Peter sacrifices a hand to bring him back, harry gives blood and then there is the bone of his father. Looking at the prophecy neither Voldie or Harry can survive whilst the other is around (my interpretation) so could it be that by using Harry's blood this has sealed the prophecy.
If this is the case then if Peter where to die having sacrificed his hand would this impact Voldie in some way??
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Accio Book Six - Jun 25, 2004 6:01 am (#41 of 1297)
Hmmmm... I don't know, PIJ... I mean, if using a bit of Harry's blood will make a huge connection between them, then surely having a servant sacrifice a hand is as well. I think that Peter will have a big part in the future. I mean, he got this nifty hand in GoF and then he was nowhere to be seen in OoP.
I really think his purpose will either be in the downfall of Voldemort or the survival of Harry. And that hand of his will help him somehow.
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JasonS - Jun 25, 2004 7:59 am (#42 of 1297)
Student/Harry Fan
My other predicition on who will die in book 6 & 7 - Errol the Weasely family owl. The poor owl has been right at deaths door. I actually would be sad if he finally died.
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Chris. - Jun 25, 2004 10:00 am (#43 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't want Errol to die! I like him, even though we've only seen him a couple of times.
I had forgotten about Peter/Wormtail too, but I don't think he will murder Lupin with his silvery hand. That wouldn't be JKR, although she may be leading us to believe it will happen. I want Moony to be the last Marauder.
I don't know why, and I know there has to be a enemy for Harry, except Voldemort but I think (I said think, not hope Draco-fans! ) Draco will meet his match in either Ron or Neville.
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Accio Book Six - Jun 25, 2004 11:53 am (#44 of 1297)
I don't think that Lupin will die at all, ESPECIALLY not to a horrible wizard like Peter. Besides, are wizards even able to simply conjure up pure silver like that? I know they can't conjure gold, so who knows... I know the hand is silver LOOKING, I don't think that it is really silver.
I think that Errol might like it better to quietly pass... or at least retire. It would be nice if the Weasley family got another owl and Errol could live out his days snacking on owl treats and going on non-strenuous flights.
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Madam Pince - Jun 25, 2004 4:28 pm (#45 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Let's see, here's my list of major characters (subject to revision, of course.)
Ones Who Are Toast: Dumbledore - so that Harry will be alone to face Voldy. Don't think he will be killed though; I liked (someone's?) earlier idea that he steps through the veil on his own in order to facilitate something.
Percy - the whole martyr/redemption thing
Fudge - too dim to live; punishment for being overly ambitious
Wormtail - will be killed by Voldy for refusing an order to 'off' Harry
Voldemort - naturally!
And the dark horse in this category: Snape - who will die saving Harry towards the end of Book 7, thus proving he was not such a bad guy after all, and fulfilling his debt to James.
Ones Who Will Definitely Make It: Harry, Ron, Hermione - don't think JKR can do it. She likes to tease us, but she clearly felt Sirius' death was the worst one ever (see earlier post) so surely the Trio must live.
Hagrid - It would be too much like clubbing a baby seal.
Draco - he will switch sides at a critical juncture, thus fulfilling the "re-joining of the houses" thing, and be Harry's friend.
Bellatrix - she will be captured by Neville and probably have her soul sucked out by dementors, but will technically "survive."
Could Go Either Way: McGonnagal - That auror quote of hers worries me.
Arthur and/or Molly - Hmmmmm. Not sure. Would help Ron and Harry relate even more.
Dobby - He's just so loyal, it worries me that he'll do something drastic to try to help Harry.
In general, I pretty much agree with Popkin and Justin Rapp in their earlier posts. I think there will be a lot more deaths, but they will be what I consider to be "minor" characters, like Grawp or Seamus or Cho for instance, or Order members, or possibly some muggles.
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popkin - Jun 25, 2004 4:32 pm (#46 of 1297)
mother
And Winky - with some kind of a major deathbed confession.
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Madam Pince - Jun 25, 2004 4:35 pm (#47 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Yeah, that's good too.
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Neville Longbottom - Jun 25, 2004 4:45 pm (#48 of 1297)
Morgan Godfery, I am not a moderator or anything, so I can't really say anything. But can you please use some punctuation? As someone whose mothertongue isn't english, I find your posts really hard to read.
Thank you.
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sewfuninme - Jun 26, 2004 1:20 pm (#49 of 1297)
I have three deaths in particular that I think will happen:
Lupin - recall what Ron said about a simple hex doing Lupin in on the Hogwarts Express in PoA. (No, please don't let it be true!)
Arthur and Molly - Lupin's response to Molly's fear of what would happen to Ron and Ginny if something were to happen to Arthur and Molly.
Other possibilities that sound likely:
McGonagall - just because it would have a big impact
Snape - trying to save Harry
Those are my more concrete speculations on deaths.
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Catherine - Jun 27, 2004 6:21 am (#50 of 1297)
Canon Seeker
I think that Hagrid will not last the series. I think he will die to try to save a student, or Dumbledore. If not Hagrid, I think Grawp will be the casualty. We've had too many discussions about Giant prejudice for us not to see another Giant die.
Firenze is marked, and the Centaurs are angry. We already know that Firenze will do what is right, not what is easy, and I could see him dying for a greater good.
As for students, I worry about Dennis Creevey.
Other characters who I think may not last are Viktor Krum and Karkaroff. Karkaroff is already on a hit list with Voldemort and the other Death Eaters. Viktor has already been shown "winning the battle, but not the war." I could see him fighting bravely, but succumbing in the end.
As for the Order members, I wouldn't be surprised if Moody dies. He doesn't have that many body parts left.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 51 to 100)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 10:38 am
Madam Pince - Jun 27, 2004 11:43 am (#51 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
LOL, Catherine! Maybe they could make Mad-Eye into the "Six Million Galleon Man."
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Justin Rapp - Jun 27, 2004 1:47 pm (#52 of 1297)
I'm 45% obsessed! (Only 45? ô¿ô )
Sorry I haven't been on in a few days, Aly (Star Crossed), I'm sure I read it somewhere. Or (I hope this isn't the case), I heard it from my mom. You see, around my house, everyone tells me anything Harry Potter related that they've heard, and it's sort of like movie infiltration - I can't remember which is real, and which was just a confused message delivered from a semi-Potty fan. So, I don't know where I heard it, hopefully someone ( anyone ) can help me out here, and not make me like too big of a liar.
Don't know what that really means, but I liked it!!
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Chemyst - Jun 27, 2004 5:17 pm (#53 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Now that you mention it, Catherine, Dennis Creevey does seem to be tailor made to be a likely casualty. The little tyke is cute & innocent, he has a brother whose story can be used to amplify the impact, and he is close-but-not-too-close to Harry. 'Sounds like a goner to me.
Karkaroff... Hm.. If he dies, I think that could be the fulfilling of Voldemort's vow, "One, who I believe has left me forever... he will be killed, of course." But I'd figured he was more likely the "One, too cowardly to return...he will pay." In which case --guessing here-- if he has a financial interest in Krum's career, as his manager perhaps, feeding off Krum's crumbs -- killing Krum would make him pay both literally and figuratively.
(I added the italics on 'believe' since the implication is that Voldemort could be wrong.)
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 28, 2004 4:23 am (#54 of 1297)
I think Malfoy will die, if at all, at the hands of Hermione. I believe that J K Rowling has said that there will be no redemption for Malfoy. So give up hope now. Also she has said not to trust Snape.
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popkin - Jun 28, 2004 4:30 am (#55 of 1297)
mother
I don't think she said that exactly ("not to trust Snape"), but that we should keep an eye on him. It could just be that Snape's backstory is sufficiently awful for the teenage Marauder's treatment of him to be justifiable. I don't know of Rowling saying anything specific about whether to trust Snape now or not.
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Steve Newton - Jun 28, 2004 10:22 am (#56 of 1297)
Librarian
I am just rereading OOTP. Mcgonagall is stunned by 4 wizards. I don't know whether or not they are going to die but in the next couple of years they are going to be visited by a certain former teacher and they will not be pleased.
I don't think that McGonagall is a killer but you never know.
It is never stated who they all are that I can find.
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Madam Pince - Jun 28, 2004 4:22 pm (#57 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I didn't hear that JKR said there would be no redemption for Malfoy. Was it in one of her interviews? Did she specify if she was referring to Malfoy Junior or Malfoy Senior?
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Neville Longbottom - Jun 29, 2004 12:42 am (#58 of 1297)
@ Steve: *lol* Now, I've the vision of McGonagall visiting the aurors and telling them, that she never was that ashamed by actions of one of her former students before, and then giving them all detention.
Back on topic: On her site, she says, that a dead Ginny in the CoS would have made the present day Voldemort stronger. So maybe Ginny is in even greater danger, than we think, because of the connection. Maybe Voldemort will kill her to become more powerful.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 29, 2004 3:05 am (#59 of 1297)
Check what she says about draco on her website. I believe the interview refered to Draco and specifically said that if people were expecting him to become a good guy they would be disappointed.
Concerning Ginny, I think she would have made Voldemort more powerful because he had consumed her life force to animate the spirit of Tom Riddle placed in the diary. I'm not so sure it has an effect now. But is Voldemort still cursed because of the unicorn blood thing?
But would it be too obvious to kill them all off? To loose Harry, Hermione and Ron? To have Neville given a job at Hogwarts to keep the memory of the friends alive? I think the fact that one Harry's gang gets a teaching position at Hogwarts has a greater significance than placed on it so far. In fact (so I don't get told off) I'm off to start a new thread.
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S.E. Jones - Jun 30, 2004 4:00 pm (#60 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Tonks is always so willing to help everyone; I think this is a major flaw. That, and the fact that she is the same general height and build as our hero, and a metamorphmagi. I think Tonks, wanting to help, will take on Harry's form, and will be killed by Voldemort in the seventh book. Everyone thinks Ron will die to make it personal so that Harry will be spurred on the kill Voldemort, but I think it will be Tonk's death that will do the spurring. When Sirius died, he left two voids in Harry's life, that of a parent and that of a sibling, because Sirius was both father and brother to Harry. Lupin will take the parental role, but Tonks will take the sibling role and that's why her death would be so crucial.
Just my two knuts....
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FCBarca - Jul 1, 2004 9:05 am (#61 of 1297)
I think the trio will survive, but outside of them, anyone could die. I don't particularly care who dies, to be honest, as it is just a book. Voldemort will be killed, unfortunately. For those who wonder why I like Voldemort, I'll tell you now: It's a book, so him being evil doesn't matter. The other reason is because he's funny, and a brilliant character. I don't have favourite character's in things, so I wouldn't call Voldemort my favourite character, because I don't have a favourite character, as such. But I like him because he's funny. So, because Voldemort will die at the end, it doesn't bother me. What does, is the fact that he will be killed by a stupid little boy who loves being the hero.
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Madam Poppy - Jul 1, 2004 10:41 am (#62 of 1297)
Kirsten Valleskey
Sorry you feel that way about Harry Potter FC. Your bio says you, "Like Harry Potter, and although quite a few inconsistencies and unrealistic mistakes, the Harry Potter books are interesting to say the least."
From your strong comments in post #64 you might want to join the "I Hate Harry Potter Forum" instead. We are a little defensive of our hero around here.
Poppy
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haymoni - Jul 1, 2004 12:20 pm (#63 of 1297)
Harry has 2 more books to stop being "stupid" - I think he'll do just fine.
I do agree with your thoughts on Voldy's evil, dry, sarcastic humor - I don't like him as much as Snape, but he is very well written.
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Catherine - Jul 1, 2004 1:19 pm (#64 of 1297)
Canon Seeker
FCBarca,
I disagree that Harry loves being the hero, as you put it.
I don't think it's a question of ego, or attention. I think Harry has a very noble character, and a great capacity to do the right thing. I think he is compelled toward heroics.
I don't think he particularly enjoyed facing Voldemort, or killng the basilisk, or having visions of Sirius tortured.
I'm sorry that you feel that Harry is a "stupid little boy." I don't agree with you on that point, either.
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Czarina II - Jul 1, 2004 4:12 pm (#65 of 1297)
Er, while I don't think Harry is stupid in the least, I do agree that he loves to be a hero. He loves the rewards of being the hero. I think he matches Voldemort perfectly, as the latter loves the rewards of being the villain. Does Harry especially love the fighting and such? No, probably not -- although adrenaline certainly helps him forget that. On the other hand, Voldemort loves to fight. He enjoys killing. Harry sees these unpleasanteries as his duty.
I think Ron will kill Draco in Bk7. Draco won't get a chance to reform even if he wanted to. He will be out to get Harry and I'm not sure if he would actually become a Death Eater, but rather strike out on his own. Ron will kill him because the two characters are opposites. It would be nice to see them face off.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 1, 2004 5:36 pm (#66 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
Actually, I think Draco's end will be Voldemort's doing -- Poetic justice and all that.
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 1, 2004 10:07 pm (#67 of 1297)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
I think those most likely to have their buckets kicked are Dumbledore, sadly, but it will happen. Harry cannot always look for DD arrival, the only one he ever feared. Harry needs to fight alone. Others will likely be Loopin, Draco, at least one of the weasley's, Hagrid and various death eaters. As for Harry's love of the hero act, I think it seems from guilt. His parents died to save him, he always, even before he knew the truth, felt guilt about their deaths, every time he tries to save someone, he is subconsciously saving them. Perhaps, if he saves enough people, the guilt will go away.
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FCBarca - Jul 2, 2004 5:54 am (#68 of 1297)
"From your strong comments in post #64 you might want to join the "I Hate Harry Potter Forum" instead."
Why? For calling Harry a 'stupid little boy'? I thought the idea of the Forum was to give opinions, and as long as you don't insult or offend anyone, then they're welcome? Well, I can't see how I have insulted anyone by calling a fictional character in a book a 'stupid little boy', and I can't see how calling a character in a book stupid can cause trouble, either. Also, my bio says I like Harry Potter, meaning the books, not the character.
I don't hate Harry, and I suppose calling him a 'stupid little boy' was a bit harsh, but I was referring more to his power, rather than his personality. Compared to Voldemort, Harry isn't that powerful, because of his age. About the 'hero' thing, I respect anyone who puts their life in danger to save other's, because I think I would do the same. But it was the fact that he put his friends lives in danger, that annoys me. If what he saw in the dream was true (that Sirius was being held by Voldemort), then there was no way Harry and his friends could survive.
Madam Poppy, you said: "We are a little defensive of our hero around here."
Although I'm not an obsessive fan (although I am a big fan), I do understand what you mean. But I don't recall it saying anywhere on the Forum that you couldn't say something because it was against the other members opinion's. I understand it's wrong to belittle other people's opinions, but I didn't say 'Harry is a stupid little boy' in response to anyone.
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Steve Newton - Jul 2, 2004 10:13 am (#69 of 1297)
Librarian
FC,
I don't recall that Harry put others lives in danger. In OOTP they forced themselves on him. He seems to go out of his way to go it alone. He is fortunate in having friends that are eager to help him.
Harry being young and less powerful than V seems to be a weak argument. First of all he is getting stronger. He's also smart. V makes mistakes which may make him vulnerable. Also there are other skills besides magic that may help him. Say he was to use his broom and drop something on V, sort of like the troll in SS. (A pet idea of mine is that broom flying will impact the outcome.) Or perhaps Hagrid has some dragon attractor that they can spray V with. OK, these may be frivolous but the point is that the relative power of their magic may not be the deciding factor.
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FCBarca - Jul 2, 2004 11:03 am (#70 of 1297)
"I don't recall that Harry put others lives in danger. In OOTP they forced themselves on him."
Steve, before that, when he says to Ron and Hermione 'how are we getting there'.
"Harry being young and less powerful than V seems to be a weak argument."
Steve, I just mean in the intelligence and magical knowledge sector. Voldemort knows more magic, and is more intelligent. Harry couldn't do half the things Voldemort could do. Harry couldn't create the diary, for instance. Or create the plan that Voldemort created to get his body back. Also, another reason why I believe Voldemort is more powerful is because he would be a lame baddie if a 15 year old wizard was more powerful than him.
The fact is that Harry has a better personality, he is a better person than Voldemort. But that doesn't make him more powerful, in my opinion. Dumbledore said Voldemort was one of the greatest people ever to attend Hogwarts, so I don't think Harry can be more powerful than Voldemort, certainly not at this time.
Anyway, this is off topic.
I don't think any of the Weasley's will die, purely because a)It seems too obvious (but then again, I thought Sirius was obvious), and b) Molly said it would 'be a miracle' if they all survived, which I think means they will.
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Steve Newton - Jul 2, 2004 12:52 pm (#71 of 1297)
Librarian
"Voldemort knows more magic, and is more intelligent."
V has yet to impress me with his intelligence. Brute force seems to be his preferred response to most situations. Does intelligence equal magical ability? I don't know.
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FCBarca - Jul 2, 2004 1:14 pm (#72 of 1297)
"V has yet to impress me with his intelligence."
I'm not sure. I think creating the diary shows he has intelligence, and the way he remains hidden must require a bit. I also wouldn't say anything is beyond him, magically, but whether that is because of intelligence, I don't know. Also, how he managed to get Harry out of school in OotP, and making sure he got there showed his intelligence as well.
"Brute force seems to be his preferred response to most situations."
That certainly appears to be true.
What also makes me say Voldemort is intelligent, other than the clues from Dumbledore, is that he always seems to know. He's fully aware of everything going on, and commands mass amounts of people, so I would say the clues are there that he is very intelligent.
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Steve Newton - Jul 2, 2004 2:11 pm (#73 of 1297)
Librarian
"how he managed to get Harry out of school in OotP, and making sure he got there showed his intelligence as well."
This was the only thing that I could come up with that struck me as smart. The creation of the diary took magical skill. Unless he created the spell to create the diary then I'm not sure that it would take great intelligence.
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Ff3girl - Jul 2, 2004 2:27 pm (#74 of 1297)
I think Harry could be more powerful than Voldemort. True, he would need to develop his skills a lot more. But I'm convinced by what happened in the graveyard at the end of GOF. Harry forced the bead between the two connected wands to go back into Voldemort's wand. True, Voldemort was distracted, but so was Harry!
He had made it through a maze (where he was wounded by a giant spider)
Was under terrible pain from his scar (even wretched from the pain)
Just witnessed the death of his classmate
Been stabbed by Wormtail
Taunted by the D.E.s
Been Crucioed
I think by all accounts, if Voldemort were more powerful, then he should have been able to force the bead of light back into Harry's wand, and not the other way around.
-------
Back on Topic... I think Voldemort is going to die at the end of the 7th book ^_~
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Dumbledore - Jul 2, 2004 2:31 pm (#75 of 1297)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Oh how we hope...;-)
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S.E. Jones - Jul 2, 2004 10:32 pm (#76 of 1297)
Let it snow!
JKR has said herself that Harry isn't, as yet (please note, she said "yet"), a good enough wizard, powerwise, to go toe-to-toe with Voldemort, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement in the next two years. She's also said that he's powers are really growing now, and he's now aware of them and the prophecy and I think that will have a big impact on things to come.
Royal Albert Hall:
JKR: Harry is not a good enough wizard yet to even attempt to take on Voldemort as wizard to wizard. He’s escaped him three, four times if you count the encounter with Tom Riddle. He keeps doing it because there is one thing that Voldemort doesn’t understand and that’s the power that keeps Harry going. And we all know what that power is.
World Day Chat:
dsm: Are Harry's powers going to get even greater?
JK Rowling replies -> Yes, he's really progressing as a wizard now (which is lucky, because I know what's in store for him).
Unfortunately, as interesting a discussion as this is (and it is), I think it belongs better on the 'Connections Between Harry & Voldemort' thread or a similar thread than it does here.
Thank you, Ff3girl, for trying to bring us back on topic. I'm going to repeat my theory that Tonks will die attempting to help Harry (as previously stated in my last post), though I hope I'm wrong....
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Kieran Burke - Jul 3, 2004 5:31 am (#77 of 1297)
I'm pretty sure either Harry or Ron will die. I know the prophecy kinda rules Harry out in a way but maybe its just a Red Herring. After all the series kicks off with him being just a year old, if he dies at the end it kinda rounds off the series doesn't it. Plus it kinda adds to this mythical "tragic hero" thing that harry has going on about him.
Also I think DD is gonna go, I predict he'll be killed by Voldemort and this will spur Harry on to fully accept his role and try to kill Voldy.
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5ofclubs - Jul 3, 2004 8:32 am (#78 of 1297)
My theories:
Hermione is the most likely to me, based on the "progression of pain" that Harry has experienced - Loss of Lupin as a teacher, Loss of Cedric, Loss of Sirius, (Loss of Hermione). It just seems logical to me. Also, Hermione would probably die in such a way that her intelligence would be apparent and she truly would blaze into legend as the "smartest witch of her age." Rowling said that Cuaron foreshadowed some as-yet unknown plot points in the PoA movie, and the thing that stood out to me was everyone commenting on Hermione's brilliance. I don't want it to happen, but I think it will.
If not Hermy, however, DD is perfectly set up to bite the dust. I like the idea of him willingly walking through the veil for some reason. It seems to "fit" his life. Maybe Arthur Weasley would be the new headmaster?
Also, someone mentioned LV killing Draco. That would be sheer genius on JKR's part.
I have some other theories, but none well-formed enough to post here.
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azi - Jul 3, 2004 12:15 pm (#79 of 1297)
Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
I like the idea of Cornelius Fudge dying. I was hoping he would die in book 5 but unfortunately it didn't happen. However, JKR has hinted there will be a new Minister for Magic in the next two books. I feel either Fudge will be kicked out of office or will die at the hands of someone.
I think that eventually Draco will be killed by Voldie because he is a liability. He makes snide comments which give people clues to things he knows, such as the 'dogging' comment in OoP. Draco will probably make comments like this in relation to Voldemort's schemes in the next two books which help people work out what he is planning.
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TMM - Jul 3, 2004 5:53 pm (#80 of 1297)
My current theory is that both Dumbledore and Voldemort will die. I think that Voldemort will kill Dumbledore, but it will be because Dumbledore will sacrifice himself to protect Harry. It will be this sacrifice that will the key to Harry defeating Voldemort. The basis of this theory is found in Chapter 37 of the American Version of OotP, The Prophecy. There are two specific points in this chapter. The first is when Dumbledore describes the flaw in his plan to protect Harry. The flaw being that Dumbledore cares too much about Harry to tell him the harsh reality. The second is the description of the power that Harry has which Voldemort does not (as stated in the Prophecy). This power, the same power maintained behind the unopened door in the MoM, is the power I believe Harry subconsciously used to defeat Voldemort originally. I think that Harry was able to use this power because his mother sacrificed herself for him. When Dumbledore sacrifices himself, it will provide the key to Harry gaining the knowledge of how to properly focus this power, the power of love and loyalty. Harry will finally understand the love his mother had for him, the loyalty and caring that Dumbledore has for him. Understanding this, will allow Harry to utilize this power to ultimately kill Voldemort.
Toby
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Julia. - Jul 5, 2004 11:02 am (#81 of 1297)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
This might be a bit of a crazy thought, so bear with me for a few minuttes. Has anyone thought that the Dursley's might be headed for an untimely death? IF Harry is protected in the place where his mother's blood dwells, wouldn't it make sence for Voldmort to ensure that doesn't happen? The most efficiant way to do that is by killing th Dursleys, or Aunt Petunia and Dudley at least. I think this might be one of those things that's so obvious that you just kinda slap your forehead and say "Duh, why didn't I think of that?"
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DJ Evans - Jul 5, 2004 12:13 pm (#82 of 1297)
Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
Julia, in other words--that just might be the reason for Harry's shortest stay at #4 Privet Drive? Good catch there!!!! Ten points to you I say!! I know we've discussed here on some of the posts that maybe the charm works on the Dursley's--if not all, at least on Petunia and maybe Dudley--but we're not absolutely sure are we?
Later, Deb
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colbow - Jul 5, 2004 12:56 pm (#83 of 1297)
Well now V-mort spent most of the books(PS/SS,CoS,GoF) trying to get back to full strentgh, now that he is back, he may indeed come after the Dursley's....unless Dumbledore is their Secert-Keeper, but yet to work out how that would work on a muggle house that everyone can see. Or V-mort doesn't know about the Dursley's just yet, but may soon find out where Harry goes every summer and why...
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haymoni - Jul 5, 2004 6:14 pm (#84 of 1297)
He knows about the Dursleys - can't remember the quote but it was in the graveyard, GOF.
Many have speculated that the Dursleys would have to go to Grimmauld Place - this could be why.
Hah - Petunia and Mama Black!!!
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colbow - Jul 5, 2004 6:22 pm (#85 of 1297)
I've really have to re-read GOF, and Cos, that would be something if the Dursley's ended up in Grimmauld Place...I wonder though if V-mort will take them out, because that would certainly end protection, it seems likely to happen, as Aunt Petunia/Dursley is the last of the Evans blood line...hmmmmm....
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haymoni - Jul 5, 2004 6:28 pm (#86 of 1297)
There's always Dudley - Uncle Vernon is on his own!
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Julia. - Jul 5, 2004 9:05 pm (#87 of 1297)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
You're right Haymoni, Voldemort does indeed know about the Dursleys, here's the quote.
"But how to get at Harry Potter? For he has been better protected than I think he knows, protected in ways devised by Dumbledore long ago, when it fell on him to arrange the boy's future. Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic, to ensure the boy's protection as long as he is in his relation's care. Not even I can touch him there." (GoF ch. 33, pg. 657 US)
It just makes sence that if voldie can't touch Harry when he's with the Dursleys, the effeciant thing to do would be to kill them.
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TheQuibbler - Jul 5, 2004 9:36 pm (#88 of 1297)
I think the Dursleys will survive the Harry/Voldemort duel, if you will. My basis for this is purely instinct but I think it has something to do with the fact that with him going back to the every year that sets him apart from his friends. He has to go back for his protection and has very little contact with the magical world. I think that Harry must eventually have a revelation about the Dursleys and that they have a bigger part to play. Dumbledore emphasizes in OoP that the Dursleys took him, however unwillingly, but they took him. I don't think there is a secret behind this but I think Harry needs to realize the meaning of this before the Dursleys can be done away with.
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colbow - Jul 6, 2004 12:13 am (#89 of 1297)
Well I hope that JKR will not take out Petunia and Co. They just seem to be a part of the plot all along.....
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 6, 2004 12:16 am (#90 of 1297)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Actually, I was wondering as much as who, but how many will die in book 6 and 7. There is going to be this war. How many muggles? Wizards? Magical creatures, like goblins and house-elves? Is this going to be only those close to Harry, positively or negatively, or is the death going to be widespread?
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colbow - Jul 6, 2004 12:33 am (#91 of 1297)
Good point as last time in the 70's , a load of the Order was killed and Muggles as well....I do hope that Harry will have a happier time of it some where in the future because it's been a rough road and JKR said "if she were Harry she would run and hide because she knows what is coming" Not good.......
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Hollywand - Jul 6, 2004 8:47 pm (#92 of 1297)
Gryffindor
I weigh in for: The Dursleys die, Neville lives and blossoms, Dumbledore sees out the battle, then decides he "would like to move on to the next great adventure of his own accord", none of the trio die, Voldemort is broken and faces a fate worse than death, as Dumbledore warned him. The Malfoys get knocked off and Draco's an orphan. Gosh, I'm glad these are only literary characters.
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Steve Newton - Jul 7, 2004 6:48 am (#93 of 1297)
Librarian
In the 'Predictions for Books 6 and 7' forum, post 565, Sleeping Beauty says:
"The reason I thought that Dumbledore will shuffle off this mortal coil is due to the simple fact of the notion that DD is "the only one he ever feared". How can Harry compete whilst DD is still alive? Harry needs to have Dumbledore gone to feel like he is the only one that can defeat Voldy or risk the total fear and horror of his ultimate and final return."
I can find nothing wrong with this reasoning. How can Harry 'come of age' if Dumbledore is there to lean on? He can't.
I seem to remember that in the Arthurian legend that something happens to Merlin that takes him out of the action but doesn't kill him. Perhaps this is a possibility.
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Mellilot Flower. - Jul 7, 2004 7:38 am (#94 of 1297)
Pixie led
I have done a quick search since I lost track of this topic a while back... but if this has been mentioned and I missed could someone direct me to the responses?
I don't want this to happen, and previously thought that none of th trio would die (except maybe Harry in certain eventualities that I havn't ruled out)... but now I'm not so sure. When the DA members first enter the Death Chamber and Harry gets all entranced with the curtain, he first calls out Sirius name thinking he might have just gone through it, causing the curtain to stir- he then asks "Ron is that you?" in regard to the whispering from behind the curtain. Could this be a hint that Ron too will go beyond the viel before the end of the series... perhaps not in such a literal sense, but still... It certainly set chills down my spine.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 7, 2004 7:49 am (#95 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
The one thing that works against your point, Steven, is that Rowling tends to avoid clichés, and the dead mentor of the quest hero is one of the biggest clichés around.
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Steve Newton - Jul 7, 2004 8:18 am (#96 of 1297)
Librarian
Prefect,
Right you are. But it is also a classical theme, and quite Freudian. To come of age he must stand on his own.
You are right of course. If not done with some skill it could come off as a cliche. (Done correctly I think that it would be called archetypical.) Sometimes I like to throw big words in.
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Gemini12602 - Jul 7, 2004 9:04 am (#97 of 1297)
Hello everyone have been reading this forum for a couple months now, but this is my first time posting. I don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere. A friend of mine recently told me that in an interview JKR gave around the time of the first movie, she stated that one of the trio will die. The trio being Harry Ron and Hermione of course.
My friend also believes that Ron will be the one to die. I obviously don't want any of them to die, but it does seem possible for Ron to be the one. One thing that really made me wonder was Ron's middle name, Billious (I don't know if thats spelled right), being the name of his uncle that saw the grim and died.
I haven't seen anything that makes me believe Hermione will die, but I think it is possible for Harry to die when he defeats Voldenort. We know he will not be killed by Voldemort, and Voldemort live because... well... what would be the point of all the books if Voldemort lives! I have a strong feeling Harry could possible die while killing Voldemort.
This is one of many theories and ideas that have been buzzing around my head since reading this forum. Also, if anyone has proof of this interview where she says one of them will die, it would be appreciated. I would like to know if she really did say it, or if it is another rumor.
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Star Crossed - Jul 7, 2004 9:20 am (#98 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
With all my belief, I think it's a rumour. I don't think JKR would ever give out that much info.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 7, 2004 10:08 am (#99 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 7, 2004 10:09 am
Steve,
Absolutely, he must stand on his own. But Harry HAS stood on his own fighting Quirrell, fighting the basilisk and Riddle, and fighting Voldemort in the graveyard. Dumbledore does not need to be dead in order for Harry to stand on his own two feet.
Don't forget that one of the big things of OoP was Harry gathering a support group, and learning how dangerous playing the hero is. It could be said that Rowling has moved past the lone-eagle phase.
What's the difference between a cliché and an archetype? A writer you enjoy uses archetypes. A writer you dislike uses clichés. :-D
++++++
Gemini,
I suspect it is but a rumour. Trust me, if she had really said it, the members on this forum would have it memorised by now. :-D
Marcus
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TMM - Jul 7, 2004 12:09 pm (#100 of 1297)
For what it's worth, I don't think the Dursleys will die. The same "old magic" that protects Harry as long as he can call the Dursleys' house home must also be able to project them. If not, Voldemort could have easily destroyed them and their house which would mean that Harry could no longer call the Dursleys' his home which in turn, would mean he would no longer be protected by this magic. Maybe that is way to convoluted, but I will through it out for discussion just the same.
Toby
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
LOL, Catherine! Maybe they could make Mad-Eye into the "Six Million Galleon Man."
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Justin Rapp - Jun 27, 2004 1:47 pm (#52 of 1297)
I'm 45% obsessed! (Only 45? ô¿ô )
Sorry I haven't been on in a few days, Aly (Star Crossed), I'm sure I read it somewhere. Or (I hope this isn't the case), I heard it from my mom. You see, around my house, everyone tells me anything Harry Potter related that they've heard, and it's sort of like movie infiltration - I can't remember which is real, and which was just a confused message delivered from a semi-Potty fan. So, I don't know where I heard it, hopefully someone ( anyone ) can help me out here, and not make me like too big of a liar.
Don't know what that really means, but I liked it!!
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Chemyst - Jun 27, 2004 5:17 pm (#53 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Now that you mention it, Catherine, Dennis Creevey does seem to be tailor made to be a likely casualty. The little tyke is cute & innocent, he has a brother whose story can be used to amplify the impact, and he is close-but-not-too-close to Harry. 'Sounds like a goner to me.
Karkaroff... Hm.. If he dies, I think that could be the fulfilling of Voldemort's vow, "One, who I believe has left me forever... he will be killed, of course." But I'd figured he was more likely the "One, too cowardly to return...he will pay." In which case --guessing here-- if he has a financial interest in Krum's career, as his manager perhaps, feeding off Krum's crumbs -- killing Krum would make him pay both literally and figuratively.
(I added the italics on 'believe' since the implication is that Voldemort could be wrong.)
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 28, 2004 4:23 am (#54 of 1297)
I think Malfoy will die, if at all, at the hands of Hermione. I believe that J K Rowling has said that there will be no redemption for Malfoy. So give up hope now. Also she has said not to trust Snape.
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popkin - Jun 28, 2004 4:30 am (#55 of 1297)
mother
I don't think she said that exactly ("not to trust Snape"), but that we should keep an eye on him. It could just be that Snape's backstory is sufficiently awful for the teenage Marauder's treatment of him to be justifiable. I don't know of Rowling saying anything specific about whether to trust Snape now or not.
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Steve Newton - Jun 28, 2004 10:22 am (#56 of 1297)
Librarian
I am just rereading OOTP. Mcgonagall is stunned by 4 wizards. I don't know whether or not they are going to die but in the next couple of years they are going to be visited by a certain former teacher and they will not be pleased.
I don't think that McGonagall is a killer but you never know.
It is never stated who they all are that I can find.
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Madam Pince - Jun 28, 2004 4:22 pm (#57 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I didn't hear that JKR said there would be no redemption for Malfoy. Was it in one of her interviews? Did she specify if she was referring to Malfoy Junior or Malfoy Senior?
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Neville Longbottom - Jun 29, 2004 12:42 am (#58 of 1297)
@ Steve: *lol* Now, I've the vision of McGonagall visiting the aurors and telling them, that she never was that ashamed by actions of one of her former students before, and then giving them all detention.
Back on topic: On her site, she says, that a dead Ginny in the CoS would have made the present day Voldemort stronger. So maybe Ginny is in even greater danger, than we think, because of the connection. Maybe Voldemort will kill her to become more powerful.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 29, 2004 3:05 am (#59 of 1297)
Check what she says about draco on her website. I believe the interview refered to Draco and specifically said that if people were expecting him to become a good guy they would be disappointed.
Concerning Ginny, I think she would have made Voldemort more powerful because he had consumed her life force to animate the spirit of Tom Riddle placed in the diary. I'm not so sure it has an effect now. But is Voldemort still cursed because of the unicorn blood thing?
But would it be too obvious to kill them all off? To loose Harry, Hermione and Ron? To have Neville given a job at Hogwarts to keep the memory of the friends alive? I think the fact that one Harry's gang gets a teaching position at Hogwarts has a greater significance than placed on it so far. In fact (so I don't get told off) I'm off to start a new thread.
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S.E. Jones - Jun 30, 2004 4:00 pm (#60 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Tonks is always so willing to help everyone; I think this is a major flaw. That, and the fact that she is the same general height and build as our hero, and a metamorphmagi. I think Tonks, wanting to help, will take on Harry's form, and will be killed by Voldemort in the seventh book. Everyone thinks Ron will die to make it personal so that Harry will be spurred on the kill Voldemort, but I think it will be Tonk's death that will do the spurring. When Sirius died, he left two voids in Harry's life, that of a parent and that of a sibling, because Sirius was both father and brother to Harry. Lupin will take the parental role, but Tonks will take the sibling role and that's why her death would be so crucial.
Just my two knuts....
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FCBarca - Jul 1, 2004 9:05 am (#61 of 1297)
I think the trio will survive, but outside of them, anyone could die. I don't particularly care who dies, to be honest, as it is just a book. Voldemort will be killed, unfortunately. For those who wonder why I like Voldemort, I'll tell you now: It's a book, so him being evil doesn't matter. The other reason is because he's funny, and a brilliant character. I don't have favourite character's in things, so I wouldn't call Voldemort my favourite character, because I don't have a favourite character, as such. But I like him because he's funny. So, because Voldemort will die at the end, it doesn't bother me. What does, is the fact that he will be killed by a stupid little boy who loves being the hero.
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Madam Poppy - Jul 1, 2004 10:41 am (#62 of 1297)
Kirsten Valleskey
Sorry you feel that way about Harry Potter FC. Your bio says you, "Like Harry Potter, and although quite a few inconsistencies and unrealistic mistakes, the Harry Potter books are interesting to say the least."
From your strong comments in post #64 you might want to join the "I Hate Harry Potter Forum" instead. We are a little defensive of our hero around here.
Poppy
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haymoni - Jul 1, 2004 12:20 pm (#63 of 1297)
Harry has 2 more books to stop being "stupid" - I think he'll do just fine.
I do agree with your thoughts on Voldy's evil, dry, sarcastic humor - I don't like him as much as Snape, but he is very well written.
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Catherine - Jul 1, 2004 1:19 pm (#64 of 1297)
Canon Seeker
FCBarca,
I disagree that Harry loves being the hero, as you put it.
I don't think it's a question of ego, or attention. I think Harry has a very noble character, and a great capacity to do the right thing. I think he is compelled toward heroics.
I don't think he particularly enjoyed facing Voldemort, or killng the basilisk, or having visions of Sirius tortured.
I'm sorry that you feel that Harry is a "stupid little boy." I don't agree with you on that point, either.
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Czarina II - Jul 1, 2004 4:12 pm (#65 of 1297)
Er, while I don't think Harry is stupid in the least, I do agree that he loves to be a hero. He loves the rewards of being the hero. I think he matches Voldemort perfectly, as the latter loves the rewards of being the villain. Does Harry especially love the fighting and such? No, probably not -- although adrenaline certainly helps him forget that. On the other hand, Voldemort loves to fight. He enjoys killing. Harry sees these unpleasanteries as his duty.
I think Ron will kill Draco in Bk7. Draco won't get a chance to reform even if he wanted to. He will be out to get Harry and I'm not sure if he would actually become a Death Eater, but rather strike out on his own. Ron will kill him because the two characters are opposites. It would be nice to see them face off.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 1, 2004 5:36 pm (#66 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
Actually, I think Draco's end will be Voldemort's doing -- Poetic justice and all that.
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 1, 2004 10:07 pm (#67 of 1297)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
I think those most likely to have their buckets kicked are Dumbledore, sadly, but it will happen. Harry cannot always look for DD arrival, the only one he ever feared. Harry needs to fight alone. Others will likely be Loopin, Draco, at least one of the weasley's, Hagrid and various death eaters. As for Harry's love of the hero act, I think it seems from guilt. His parents died to save him, he always, even before he knew the truth, felt guilt about their deaths, every time he tries to save someone, he is subconsciously saving them. Perhaps, if he saves enough people, the guilt will go away.
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FCBarca - Jul 2, 2004 5:54 am (#68 of 1297)
"From your strong comments in post #64 you might want to join the "I Hate Harry Potter Forum" instead."
Why? For calling Harry a 'stupid little boy'? I thought the idea of the Forum was to give opinions, and as long as you don't insult or offend anyone, then they're welcome? Well, I can't see how I have insulted anyone by calling a fictional character in a book a 'stupid little boy', and I can't see how calling a character in a book stupid can cause trouble, either. Also, my bio says I like Harry Potter, meaning the books, not the character.
I don't hate Harry, and I suppose calling him a 'stupid little boy' was a bit harsh, but I was referring more to his power, rather than his personality. Compared to Voldemort, Harry isn't that powerful, because of his age. About the 'hero' thing, I respect anyone who puts their life in danger to save other's, because I think I would do the same. But it was the fact that he put his friends lives in danger, that annoys me. If what he saw in the dream was true (that Sirius was being held by Voldemort), then there was no way Harry and his friends could survive.
Madam Poppy, you said: "We are a little defensive of our hero around here."
Although I'm not an obsessive fan (although I am a big fan), I do understand what you mean. But I don't recall it saying anywhere on the Forum that you couldn't say something because it was against the other members opinion's. I understand it's wrong to belittle other people's opinions, but I didn't say 'Harry is a stupid little boy' in response to anyone.
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Steve Newton - Jul 2, 2004 10:13 am (#69 of 1297)
Librarian
FC,
I don't recall that Harry put others lives in danger. In OOTP they forced themselves on him. He seems to go out of his way to go it alone. He is fortunate in having friends that are eager to help him.
Harry being young and less powerful than V seems to be a weak argument. First of all he is getting stronger. He's also smart. V makes mistakes which may make him vulnerable. Also there are other skills besides magic that may help him. Say he was to use his broom and drop something on V, sort of like the troll in SS. (A pet idea of mine is that broom flying will impact the outcome.) Or perhaps Hagrid has some dragon attractor that they can spray V with. OK, these may be frivolous but the point is that the relative power of their magic may not be the deciding factor.
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FCBarca - Jul 2, 2004 11:03 am (#70 of 1297)
"I don't recall that Harry put others lives in danger. In OOTP they forced themselves on him."
Steve, before that, when he says to Ron and Hermione 'how are we getting there'.
"Harry being young and less powerful than V seems to be a weak argument."
Steve, I just mean in the intelligence and magical knowledge sector. Voldemort knows more magic, and is more intelligent. Harry couldn't do half the things Voldemort could do. Harry couldn't create the diary, for instance. Or create the plan that Voldemort created to get his body back. Also, another reason why I believe Voldemort is more powerful is because he would be a lame baddie if a 15 year old wizard was more powerful than him.
The fact is that Harry has a better personality, he is a better person than Voldemort. But that doesn't make him more powerful, in my opinion. Dumbledore said Voldemort was one of the greatest people ever to attend Hogwarts, so I don't think Harry can be more powerful than Voldemort, certainly not at this time.
Anyway, this is off topic.
I don't think any of the Weasley's will die, purely because a)It seems too obvious (but then again, I thought Sirius was obvious), and b) Molly said it would 'be a miracle' if they all survived, which I think means they will.
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Steve Newton - Jul 2, 2004 12:52 pm (#71 of 1297)
Librarian
"Voldemort knows more magic, and is more intelligent."
V has yet to impress me with his intelligence. Brute force seems to be his preferred response to most situations. Does intelligence equal magical ability? I don't know.
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FCBarca - Jul 2, 2004 1:14 pm (#72 of 1297)
"V has yet to impress me with his intelligence."
I'm not sure. I think creating the diary shows he has intelligence, and the way he remains hidden must require a bit. I also wouldn't say anything is beyond him, magically, but whether that is because of intelligence, I don't know. Also, how he managed to get Harry out of school in OotP, and making sure he got there showed his intelligence as well.
"Brute force seems to be his preferred response to most situations."
That certainly appears to be true.
What also makes me say Voldemort is intelligent, other than the clues from Dumbledore, is that he always seems to know. He's fully aware of everything going on, and commands mass amounts of people, so I would say the clues are there that he is very intelligent.
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Steve Newton - Jul 2, 2004 2:11 pm (#73 of 1297)
Librarian
"how he managed to get Harry out of school in OotP, and making sure he got there showed his intelligence as well."
This was the only thing that I could come up with that struck me as smart. The creation of the diary took magical skill. Unless he created the spell to create the diary then I'm not sure that it would take great intelligence.
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Ff3girl - Jul 2, 2004 2:27 pm (#74 of 1297)
I think Harry could be more powerful than Voldemort. True, he would need to develop his skills a lot more. But I'm convinced by what happened in the graveyard at the end of GOF. Harry forced the bead between the two connected wands to go back into Voldemort's wand. True, Voldemort was distracted, but so was Harry!
He had made it through a maze (where he was wounded by a giant spider)
Was under terrible pain from his scar (even wretched from the pain)
Just witnessed the death of his classmate
Been stabbed by Wormtail
Taunted by the D.E.s
Been Crucioed
I think by all accounts, if Voldemort were more powerful, then he should have been able to force the bead of light back into Harry's wand, and not the other way around.
-------
Back on Topic... I think Voldemort is going to die at the end of the 7th book ^_~
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Dumbledore - Jul 2, 2004 2:31 pm (#75 of 1297)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Oh how we hope...;-)
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S.E. Jones - Jul 2, 2004 10:32 pm (#76 of 1297)
Let it snow!
JKR has said herself that Harry isn't, as yet (please note, she said "yet"), a good enough wizard, powerwise, to go toe-to-toe with Voldemort, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement in the next two years. She's also said that he's powers are really growing now, and he's now aware of them and the prophecy and I think that will have a big impact on things to come.
Royal Albert Hall:
JKR: Harry is not a good enough wizard yet to even attempt to take on Voldemort as wizard to wizard. He’s escaped him three, four times if you count the encounter with Tom Riddle. He keeps doing it because there is one thing that Voldemort doesn’t understand and that’s the power that keeps Harry going. And we all know what that power is.
World Day Chat:
dsm: Are Harry's powers going to get even greater?
JK Rowling replies -> Yes, he's really progressing as a wizard now (which is lucky, because I know what's in store for him).
Unfortunately, as interesting a discussion as this is (and it is), I think it belongs better on the 'Connections Between Harry & Voldemort' thread or a similar thread than it does here.
Thank you, Ff3girl, for trying to bring us back on topic. I'm going to repeat my theory that Tonks will die attempting to help Harry (as previously stated in my last post), though I hope I'm wrong....
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Kieran Burke - Jul 3, 2004 5:31 am (#77 of 1297)
I'm pretty sure either Harry or Ron will die. I know the prophecy kinda rules Harry out in a way but maybe its just a Red Herring. After all the series kicks off with him being just a year old, if he dies at the end it kinda rounds off the series doesn't it. Plus it kinda adds to this mythical "tragic hero" thing that harry has going on about him.
Also I think DD is gonna go, I predict he'll be killed by Voldemort and this will spur Harry on to fully accept his role and try to kill Voldy.
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5ofclubs - Jul 3, 2004 8:32 am (#78 of 1297)
My theories:
Hermione is the most likely to me, based on the "progression of pain" that Harry has experienced - Loss of Lupin as a teacher, Loss of Cedric, Loss of Sirius, (Loss of Hermione). It just seems logical to me. Also, Hermione would probably die in such a way that her intelligence would be apparent and she truly would blaze into legend as the "smartest witch of her age." Rowling said that Cuaron foreshadowed some as-yet unknown plot points in the PoA movie, and the thing that stood out to me was everyone commenting on Hermione's brilliance. I don't want it to happen, but I think it will.
If not Hermy, however, DD is perfectly set up to bite the dust. I like the idea of him willingly walking through the veil for some reason. It seems to "fit" his life. Maybe Arthur Weasley would be the new headmaster?
Also, someone mentioned LV killing Draco. That would be sheer genius on JKR's part.
I have some other theories, but none well-formed enough to post here.
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azi - Jul 3, 2004 12:15 pm (#79 of 1297)
Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
I like the idea of Cornelius Fudge dying. I was hoping he would die in book 5 but unfortunately it didn't happen. However, JKR has hinted there will be a new Minister for Magic in the next two books. I feel either Fudge will be kicked out of office or will die at the hands of someone.
I think that eventually Draco will be killed by Voldie because he is a liability. He makes snide comments which give people clues to things he knows, such as the 'dogging' comment in OoP. Draco will probably make comments like this in relation to Voldemort's schemes in the next two books which help people work out what he is planning.
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TMM - Jul 3, 2004 5:53 pm (#80 of 1297)
My current theory is that both Dumbledore and Voldemort will die. I think that Voldemort will kill Dumbledore, but it will be because Dumbledore will sacrifice himself to protect Harry. It will be this sacrifice that will the key to Harry defeating Voldemort. The basis of this theory is found in Chapter 37 of the American Version of OotP, The Prophecy. There are two specific points in this chapter. The first is when Dumbledore describes the flaw in his plan to protect Harry. The flaw being that Dumbledore cares too much about Harry to tell him the harsh reality. The second is the description of the power that Harry has which Voldemort does not (as stated in the Prophecy). This power, the same power maintained behind the unopened door in the MoM, is the power I believe Harry subconsciously used to defeat Voldemort originally. I think that Harry was able to use this power because his mother sacrificed herself for him. When Dumbledore sacrifices himself, it will provide the key to Harry gaining the knowledge of how to properly focus this power, the power of love and loyalty. Harry will finally understand the love his mother had for him, the loyalty and caring that Dumbledore has for him. Understanding this, will allow Harry to utilize this power to ultimately kill Voldemort.
Toby
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Julia. - Jul 5, 2004 11:02 am (#81 of 1297)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
This might be a bit of a crazy thought, so bear with me for a few minuttes. Has anyone thought that the Dursley's might be headed for an untimely death? IF Harry is protected in the place where his mother's blood dwells, wouldn't it make sence for Voldmort to ensure that doesn't happen? The most efficiant way to do that is by killing th Dursleys, or Aunt Petunia and Dudley at least. I think this might be one of those things that's so obvious that you just kinda slap your forehead and say "Duh, why didn't I think of that?"
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DJ Evans - Jul 5, 2004 12:13 pm (#82 of 1297)
Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
Julia, in other words--that just might be the reason for Harry's shortest stay at #4 Privet Drive? Good catch there!!!! Ten points to you I say!! I know we've discussed here on some of the posts that maybe the charm works on the Dursley's--if not all, at least on Petunia and maybe Dudley--but we're not absolutely sure are we?
Later, Deb
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colbow - Jul 5, 2004 12:56 pm (#83 of 1297)
Well now V-mort spent most of the books(PS/SS,CoS,GoF) trying to get back to full strentgh, now that he is back, he may indeed come after the Dursley's....unless Dumbledore is their Secert-Keeper, but yet to work out how that would work on a muggle house that everyone can see. Or V-mort doesn't know about the Dursley's just yet, but may soon find out where Harry goes every summer and why...
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haymoni - Jul 5, 2004 6:14 pm (#84 of 1297)
He knows about the Dursleys - can't remember the quote but it was in the graveyard, GOF.
Many have speculated that the Dursleys would have to go to Grimmauld Place - this could be why.
Hah - Petunia and Mama Black!!!
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colbow - Jul 5, 2004 6:22 pm (#85 of 1297)
I've really have to re-read GOF, and Cos, that would be something if the Dursley's ended up in Grimmauld Place...I wonder though if V-mort will take them out, because that would certainly end protection, it seems likely to happen, as Aunt Petunia/Dursley is the last of the Evans blood line...hmmmmm....
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haymoni - Jul 5, 2004 6:28 pm (#86 of 1297)
There's always Dudley - Uncle Vernon is on his own!
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Julia. - Jul 5, 2004 9:05 pm (#87 of 1297)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
You're right Haymoni, Voldemort does indeed know about the Dursleys, here's the quote.
"But how to get at Harry Potter? For he has been better protected than I think he knows, protected in ways devised by Dumbledore long ago, when it fell on him to arrange the boy's future. Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic, to ensure the boy's protection as long as he is in his relation's care. Not even I can touch him there." (GoF ch. 33, pg. 657 US)
It just makes sence that if voldie can't touch Harry when he's with the Dursleys, the effeciant thing to do would be to kill them.
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TheQuibbler - Jul 5, 2004 9:36 pm (#88 of 1297)
I think the Dursleys will survive the Harry/Voldemort duel, if you will. My basis for this is purely instinct but I think it has something to do with the fact that with him going back to the every year that sets him apart from his friends. He has to go back for his protection and has very little contact with the magical world. I think that Harry must eventually have a revelation about the Dursleys and that they have a bigger part to play. Dumbledore emphasizes in OoP that the Dursleys took him, however unwillingly, but they took him. I don't think there is a secret behind this but I think Harry needs to realize the meaning of this before the Dursleys can be done away with.
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colbow - Jul 6, 2004 12:13 am (#89 of 1297)
Well I hope that JKR will not take out Petunia and Co. They just seem to be a part of the plot all along.....
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 6, 2004 12:16 am (#90 of 1297)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Actually, I was wondering as much as who, but how many will die in book 6 and 7. There is going to be this war. How many muggles? Wizards? Magical creatures, like goblins and house-elves? Is this going to be only those close to Harry, positively or negatively, or is the death going to be widespread?
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colbow - Jul 6, 2004 12:33 am (#91 of 1297)
Good point as last time in the 70's , a load of the Order was killed and Muggles as well....I do hope that Harry will have a happier time of it some where in the future because it's been a rough road and JKR said "if she were Harry she would run and hide because she knows what is coming" Not good.......
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Hollywand - Jul 6, 2004 8:47 pm (#92 of 1297)
Gryffindor
I weigh in for: The Dursleys die, Neville lives and blossoms, Dumbledore sees out the battle, then decides he "would like to move on to the next great adventure of his own accord", none of the trio die, Voldemort is broken and faces a fate worse than death, as Dumbledore warned him. The Malfoys get knocked off and Draco's an orphan. Gosh, I'm glad these are only literary characters.
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Steve Newton - Jul 7, 2004 6:48 am (#93 of 1297)
Librarian
In the 'Predictions for Books 6 and 7' forum, post 565, Sleeping Beauty says:
"The reason I thought that Dumbledore will shuffle off this mortal coil is due to the simple fact of the notion that DD is "the only one he ever feared". How can Harry compete whilst DD is still alive? Harry needs to have Dumbledore gone to feel like he is the only one that can defeat Voldy or risk the total fear and horror of his ultimate and final return."
I can find nothing wrong with this reasoning. How can Harry 'come of age' if Dumbledore is there to lean on? He can't.
I seem to remember that in the Arthurian legend that something happens to Merlin that takes him out of the action but doesn't kill him. Perhaps this is a possibility.
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Mellilot Flower. - Jul 7, 2004 7:38 am (#94 of 1297)
Pixie led
I have done a quick search since I lost track of this topic a while back... but if this has been mentioned and I missed could someone direct me to the responses?
I don't want this to happen, and previously thought that none of th trio would die (except maybe Harry in certain eventualities that I havn't ruled out)... but now I'm not so sure. When the DA members first enter the Death Chamber and Harry gets all entranced with the curtain, he first calls out Sirius name thinking he might have just gone through it, causing the curtain to stir- he then asks "Ron is that you?" in regard to the whispering from behind the curtain. Could this be a hint that Ron too will go beyond the viel before the end of the series... perhaps not in such a literal sense, but still... It certainly set chills down my spine.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 7, 2004 7:49 am (#95 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
The one thing that works against your point, Steven, is that Rowling tends to avoid clichés, and the dead mentor of the quest hero is one of the biggest clichés around.
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Steve Newton - Jul 7, 2004 8:18 am (#96 of 1297)
Librarian
Prefect,
Right you are. But it is also a classical theme, and quite Freudian. To come of age he must stand on his own.
You are right of course. If not done with some skill it could come off as a cliche. (Done correctly I think that it would be called archetypical.) Sometimes I like to throw big words in.
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Gemini12602 - Jul 7, 2004 9:04 am (#97 of 1297)
Hello everyone have been reading this forum for a couple months now, but this is my first time posting. I don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere. A friend of mine recently told me that in an interview JKR gave around the time of the first movie, she stated that one of the trio will die. The trio being Harry Ron and Hermione of course.
My friend also believes that Ron will be the one to die. I obviously don't want any of them to die, but it does seem possible for Ron to be the one. One thing that really made me wonder was Ron's middle name, Billious (I don't know if thats spelled right), being the name of his uncle that saw the grim and died.
I haven't seen anything that makes me believe Hermione will die, but I think it is possible for Harry to die when he defeats Voldenort. We know he will not be killed by Voldemort, and Voldemort live because... well... what would be the point of all the books if Voldemort lives! I have a strong feeling Harry could possible die while killing Voldemort.
This is one of many theories and ideas that have been buzzing around my head since reading this forum. Also, if anyone has proof of this interview where she says one of them will die, it would be appreciated. I would like to know if she really did say it, or if it is another rumor.
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Star Crossed - Jul 7, 2004 9:20 am (#98 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
With all my belief, I think it's a rumour. I don't think JKR would ever give out that much info.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 7, 2004 10:08 am (#99 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 7, 2004 10:09 am
Steve,
Absolutely, he must stand on his own. But Harry HAS stood on his own fighting Quirrell, fighting the basilisk and Riddle, and fighting Voldemort in the graveyard. Dumbledore does not need to be dead in order for Harry to stand on his own two feet.
Don't forget that one of the big things of OoP was Harry gathering a support group, and learning how dangerous playing the hero is. It could be said that Rowling has moved past the lone-eagle phase.
What's the difference between a cliché and an archetype? A writer you enjoy uses archetypes. A writer you dislike uses clichés. :-D
++++++
Gemini,
I suspect it is but a rumour. Trust me, if she had really said it, the members on this forum would have it memorised by now. :-D
Marcus
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TMM - Jul 7, 2004 12:09 pm (#100 of 1297)
For what it's worth, I don't think the Dursleys will die. The same "old magic" that protects Harry as long as he can call the Dursleys' house home must also be able to project them. If not, Voldemort could have easily destroyed them and their house which would mean that Harry could no longer call the Dursleys' his home which in turn, would mean he would no longer be protected by this magic. Maybe that is way to convoluted, but I will through it out for discussion just the same.
Toby
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
Age : 52
Location : France
Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 101 to 150)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 10:39 am
haymoni - Jul 7, 2004 1:13 pm (#101 of 1297)
But Voldy is running out of options. He tried to kill Harry before everyone knew he was back. He tried to get the Prophesy so he could kill Harry. He tried to get Dumbledore to kill Harry.
He's losing followers - most of his Death Squad is in Azkaban. He's got Bella, who I think is a wacko, Peter, who owes Harry, Snape, who is a double agent, Crabbe, who is useless, ditto for Goyle, and a handful of others, including the Nibblers.
He just may try an attack at Privet Drive out of desperation.
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Steve Newton - Jul 7, 2004 1:35 pm (#102 of 1297)
Librarian
Prefect,
"A writer you enjoy uses archetypes. A writer you dislike uses clichés."
Absolutely great.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 7, 2004 1:36 pm (#103 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 7, 2004 1:40 pm
He might just do that, Haymoni.
So the DE's ambush the Privet Drive family, and they let their guard down around the muggles. Then a certain witch who's been in denial all these years will let them have it. No busted wine glass this time! :-)
Marcus
EDIT: Steve, Call me Marcus, please. 'Prefect' is only my title.
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Gemini12602 - Jul 7, 2004 2:25 pm (#104 of 1297)
Prefect Marcus - I would definately say you are right about that. Everyone here seems to know everything else. I still believe that even if her saying it is a rumor, that it is still a good possibility it will happen. Alot of hints point towards Ron... though I would hate Ron to die.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 7, 2004 4:37 pm (#105 of 1297)
Let it snow!
I can't really see JKR killing off any of the Trio. Harry is our eyes and ears in these stories. He is us, for lack of a better word, and killing him would mean killing her audience. She can torture him, make him suffer through trial after trial, and make us suffer with him, but to kill him would be to take us out of the story. Ron and Hermione are, as I've said before, sort of the externalizations of Harry's internals struggles (the devil and angel that sit on his shoulder) and so are extentions of him. She can, likewise, make them suffer or whatnot, but to kill them would be closing a window to her audience as well. I just can't see her doing that. There are no other characters in the series that quite function in this way outside the Trio, so that probably means others are more likely to fall (at least in my opinion), but I feel that, in the end, the Trio, at least, will be standing....
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Mellilot Flower. - Jul 7, 2004 4:44 pm (#106 of 1297)
Pixie led
Ah, SE, you've just said what I've been trying to put my finger on for ages! I knew there was something significant about the "voice" of the books and that the third person narrative wasn't omniscient but in Harry's mind... Thankyou!!!
However, Ron's silence in OotP on the matter of breaking into Umbridge's room to use her fire place suggest's he's less the devil he could be (he actually reminded me of Lupin...)
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Choices - Jul 7, 2004 6:11 pm (#107 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I have had a bad feeling about the scene early in book 5 where Molly is trying to excise the boggart at 12 Grimmauld Place and it shows her various members of her family and Harry, one after another, dead. She weeps uncontrollably and fears it may really happen. Is JKR trying to tell us something here? I hope not, but it worries me nevertheless.
Also, was the name of the street (GRIMmauld Place) where Sirius' home was located, a hint that Sirius would die? Did he have the "grim" even if it was just in the name of the street where he lived?
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Dumbledore - Jul 7, 2004 6:14 pm (#108 of 1297)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I just don't see it possible that ALL of the Weasleys would survive this time around. There are just too many of them to have all of them survive, and like Molly said half of them are in the Order, which makes their likeliness of snuffing it elevated. I certainly don't want any of the Weasleys to die, but I can't help but think it inevitable that at least one of them wouldn't make it through to the end of book 7...
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Gemini12602 - Jul 7, 2004 7:52 pm (#109 of 1297)
Wouldn't it be amazing if at the end of the series we found out this was someones narrative of the events? Most likely Harry's, but what about Dumbledore? He does know pretty much everything that goes on. Ok, maybe not the dreams and such... but it would still be cool if we found out it was Harry writing his own story, but using a third person narrative.
S.E. - You definately have a point, but there are plenty of books and movies where the favorite character, or main character dies in the end. I would probably hate it if Harry dies, but if he did it while taking out Voldemort, then it wouldn't be as bad. Who knows!
Dumbledore - If any Weaslys die, I really hope its only one Weasly... I can't imagine JKR killing off more than one person from the family.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 7, 2004 8:10 pm (#110 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Gemini, yes there are plenty of movies where that happens, but do they share the same sort of narrative style that JKR uses? Doubtful. As I said, to kill off our windows to the story would be to shut those windows and thus would be the writer shutting her readers out. What writere would do that? In other stories, the narrative is usually "phrased" (for lack of a better word) differently so that you are not shown the world purely through certain characters but are "around" certain characters. Thus main charactes and favorites can die without killing the audience too. However, in these books, we are Harry, Ron and Hermione. Not because they are favorites but because of the way JKR wrote the narrative. See what I mean?
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Hollywand - Jul 7, 2004 8:33 pm (#111 of 1297)
Gryffindor
One reason why I think the Dursleys might be candidates for death, is that it gives Rowling the opportunity to explore another facet of death through Harry's voice---the death of someone we may not care for very much. This event has rich potential to begin a complex discussion about the deaths of muggles Harry knew very well, did not like because of their cruelty to him, yet he has to feel strangely connected to them. I also think perhaps Rowling will open Book six by giving us the events of the death of James and Lilly--now, the readers are so attached to them, it will be wrenching and riveting. To connect it to the death of the Dursleys in the present (for Harry) would be a riveting turn of events. It seems to me that the protection Lilly gave to Harry initially has been somewhat undermined by Voldemort, and Voldemort has regained enough strenght to perhaps make a second attempt to vanquish Harry whilst at Muggle Manor.
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Gemini12602 - Jul 7, 2004 8:41 pm (#112 of 1297)
S.E. - I definately see what you mean now. It makes sense going with how she took out the scene in the Malfoys Manor. So far everything has been through Harrys eyes, or through dreams connected with Voldemort.
Hollywand - I definately believe the opening of the book will be the death of Harrys parents and it will most likely be through a dream of Harrys. Its the only way I really see Harry finding out what really happened other than Voldemort telling him, or showing him (similar to the diary). For some reason though, I do not see the Dursleys dying, but it could be possible.
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 7, 2004 9:15 pm (#113 of 1297)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
I posted previously that I thought that Harry may die at the end of the series, sacrificing himself to save the world. I am not so sure anymore. I still think he will sacrifice himself, but in a different way. DD is always saying that there are certain things worse than death and that Riddle's inability to see that is his biggest weakness. I think now that Harry will have a fate worse than death, a permenant bed a St. Mungo's addled brains ward. However, I still believe that DD, one of the Dudley's, the Malfoys, Hagrid, Figgy, Mudungus, and Lupin as well as some other less important baddies are going to be shown the permenant exit.
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Diagon Nilly - Jul 7, 2004 11:54 pm (#114 of 1297)
Perhaps Molly is the goner. When she saw her Boggart, she saw everyone in the family except for herself. The irony would be is she were the one to die, but no one else in her family.
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total hatred - Jul 8, 2004 4:20 am (#115 of 1297)
Ron. difinitely based on the Chessboard Theory if Mrs Rowling will follow this theory. I love him dead. Good riddance.
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Chris. - Jul 8, 2004 4:59 am (#116 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Total Hatred, I like Ron!
Before OP came out, I was so sure that it would be either Mr Weasley or Mrs Weasley. Alas, I was wrong. It was Sirius.
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TMM - Jul 8, 2004 6:08 am (#117 of 1297)
If any of the Weasley's die, I suggest it would be Percy. He seems to be the one who is most interested in gaining power and he could easily get caught in the power struggle between Voldemort/Death Eaters and Dumbledore/Order. While I think he will eventually become a supporter of the Order, I think it is possible that he will be used and ultimately killed by the Death Eaters (Malfoy?) as a pawn in the overall war.
Toby
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Steve Newton - Jul 8, 2004 6:55 am (#118 of 1297)
Librarian
Several people have spoken of Molly's episode with the boggart in OOTP. The only family member that she does not see dead is Charlie. I think, from this, that we should not get too attached to the eldest Weasley.
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Chris. - Jul 8, 2004 6:59 am (#119 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Er... eldest? I think you mean second-eldest.
I think the chain of Boggart formations would have continued after Harry's lifeless body. I thought Ginny wasn't included either? Maybe I'm wrong.
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Gemini12602 - Jul 8, 2004 10:46 am (#120 of 1297)
Its funny how JKR threw instances into OotP that seemed like other people were going to die. When Harry first sees Mrs Weasley with the boggart it says something like "There lying on the floor, clearly dead was Ron". I remember first reading that and being like "WHAT!?!?" but then it changed and we all knew what it was. Then when Arthur was attacked by the snake... this time it seemed possible Arthur would die, but he did not. Then right before Sirius dies, it seemed possible that i could have been Tonks.
(OotP Ch. 35 pg. 803) "They both ducked again. A jet of green light had narrowly missed Sirius; across the room Harry saw Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat, and Bellatrix, triumphant, running back toward the fray."
When Sirius fell through the veil I didn't think any thing of it. It was when Lupin told Harry that Sirius was gone that I understood. To me she had the events so close together to confuses us, especially green light hitting Tonks (which we all relate to the AK curse, but must not have been) and red light (which we all relate to stunning spells) hitting Sirius. I think it was a very clever way to do the death. It kinda happened suddenly and you didn't expect it.
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Neville Longbottom - Jul 8, 2004 11:06 am (#121 of 1297)
No, Prongs, you're right. She didn't see Ginny either.
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Steve Newton - Jul 8, 2004 1:03 pm (#122 of 1297)
Librarian
"She didn't see Ginny either."
Uh oh! There go a lot of 'shipping discussions.
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tracie1976 - Jul 9, 2004 12:44 pm (#123 of 1297)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
We don't know how many "dead" bodies or whose "dead" bodies Mrs. Weasley saw before Harry arrived to see "dead" Ron laying on the floor.
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schoff - Jul 9, 2004 1:02 pm (#124 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Yeah, but when an author "interrupts" a piece of narrative, that usually means something important nearly gets revealed that the author doesn't yet want you to know. Also--the author *chooses* where to start and end the narrative, so the sequence starting with Ron and ending with Harry could be highly significant. JKR did name the chapter after that one particular event.
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Star Crossed - Jul 9, 2004 2:04 pm (#125 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I, for one, never thought Ron was dead. I read it, but it never clicked. I just kept reading. Maybe I was just used to her writing, that I knew he wasn't dead. Same for Hermione.
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TheQuibbler - Jul 9, 2004 2:32 pm (#126 of 1297)
I really can't see Ron dying in book 6, because I just can't see Harry returning to Hogwarts without Ron.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jul 10, 2004 5:07 pm (#127 of 1297)
No day but Today
I think that, most unfortunatly that one of the Weasleys will die. I think that it will be either Arthur or Molly, most likely Molly. She doesn't have a carrer so it wouldn't cause any more financial strain on the family, plus she has become more prevalent in the series. JKR doesn't kill off minor characters
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 10, 2004 8:05 pm (#128 of 1297)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
I'd say that Molly keeps the whole family together so her death could and would cause strain, financial and otherwise. She makes a lot of things. She knits, bakes, etc. Her career is her family. However, that being said, it would make her a likely candidate for the axe.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 10, 2004 10:59 pm (#129 of 1297)
I seem to recall an interview in which, J.K. Rowling said something to the effect that she was astounded at how many readers did not see Hermione as being vulnerable. Although, I cannot at present recall the exact quote.
As for other candidates who are likely to die there are several candidates that I can see as being marked for death
In addition to those who have been named by others. I would add the the names of three others.
First, Amelia Bones, if elected Minister of Magic would pose a threat to Voldemort's ability to consolidate power.
Second, Sibyl Trelawney may be at risk because, she holds important information regarding the prophecy
Third, of the members of the DA, Susan Bones is at risk because of her being a Bones and because, of the close relationship between Amelia and Susan.
Best Regards, Nathan
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S.E. Jones - Jul 11, 2004 12:49 am (#130 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Ooh, I hadn't thought of Susan, Nathan, that's an interesting suggestion. She would especially be a good target, in a literary manner, if she started providing Harry with some pertinent information she heard (or rather overheard) from her Aunt Amelia. I could definately see Voldemort sending a DE to target her over a Christmas break or something.
Hey, there's a question. If a student were going to die, especially if it were a main character, how would the situation arise? I could see an attack happening on a normal student during a break, but Harry, Ron and Hermione are well guarded (unless they go out on their own). Any other thoughts?
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Weeny Owl - Jul 11, 2004 3:13 am (#131 of 1297)
Nathan:
I believe this may be what you're talking about:
It's great to hear feedback from the kids. Mostly they are really worried about Ron. As if I'm going to kill Harry's best friend. What I find interesting is only once has anyone said to me, "Don't kill Hermione," and that was after a reading when I said no one's ever worried about her. Another kid said, "Yeah, well, she's bound to get through O.K." They see her as someone who is not vulnerable, but I see her as someone who does have quite a lot of vulnerability in her personality. Hermione is me, near enough. A caricature of me when I was younger. I wasn't that clever. But I was that annoying on occasion. Girls are very tolerant of her because she is not an uncommon female type-the little girl who feels plain and hugely compensates by working very hard and wanting to get everything just so.
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Star Crossed - Jul 11, 2004 6:32 am (#132 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't think Trelawney needs to worry about being killed. If Voldemort does manage to get her, he'll keep her alive so she can make prophecies for them.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jul 11, 2004 8:35 am (#133 of 1297)
No day but Today
Susan could be a good choise. I never thought of that. I can't see Hermione though. That would be horrible if she died. I don't think its her. I think it would be someone whom was not nessesarily a major character before, like Susan
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Aud Duck - Jul 11, 2004 10:40 am (#134 of 1297)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
Other than Dumbledore (come on, folks, it's not just Star Wars; every wise mentor disappears), I see Snape, Dobby, Hagrid, and possibly Neville and Tonks as being at highest risk. Snape's going to do something surprising at the end--JKR's been setting that up for ages--and I see that as culminating in Snape's death. Hagrid and Dobby have the misfortune of being incredibly loyal characters whose loyalty is directed almost entirely at Harry and Dumbledore, the two people Voldemort is most intent on getting rid of. And they tend to rush to people's aid without really considering the consequences. Tonks is a peripheral character that we really like. Her death would add a new dimension to the war without leaving a void in Harry's heart. Neville is Harry's complement. He's a lot like Harry, even excluding the prophecy. By the end of this, he's going to be a powerful wizard (besides the foreshadowing of this in the OP, he has exactly the qualities Harry has, just not the confidence), and I can easily see him making the sacrifice that will allow Harry to defeat Voldemort in the end. And lots of really peripheral characters (like Hermione's parents, Madam Rosmerta, and Dedalus Diggle) just to show that the war is still happening out there even if only a few of our main people die.
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Gemini12602 - Jul 11, 2004 11:03 am (#135 of 1297)
I don't want to see Snape die, because I want to see Harry and Snape get along at the end of the series. I hope that happens, it would be cool!
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schoff - Jul 11, 2004 12:06 pm (#136 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Trelawney has always been my first choice for the next victim. She's in extreme danger. Voldemort wants to know that Prophecy, and only Dumbledore, Harry, and Trelawney know it. Harry and DD certainly aren't going to tell him, so that leaves Trelawney. DD knows this, that's why he won't let her leave the Castle. She's definitely a target.
I think Snape will survive to the end. So will Lupin. Mad-Eye, Dumbledore, Hagrid, and Ron won't be so lucky. I think Mad-Eye will die off-camera though.
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Neville Longbottom - Jul 11, 2004 12:22 pm (#137 of 1297)
I am sure Trelawney won't be the next victim, because I'm absolutely certain she will make a third prophecy. Those things always come in threes in legends and fairytales and there's no way somebody will convince me, that Trelawney won't make another prophecy. And since in my opinion book 6 would be to soon for another prophecy I think she has to live until book 7. Than I think she's in great danger, on the one hand because she is literally speaking the heiress of Cassandra (Trelawney), and the greek Cassandra met a very tragic end, on the other hand because it would be an ironic twist, because she always predicted Harry's death. I agree that Voldemort probably doesn't want her dead, but since I tend to think that the last battle will be at Hogwarts, everyone could die just because they are there, that includes Trelawney.
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schoff - Jul 11, 2004 12:32 pm (#138 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
True, she probably won't be the *next*, but I'm don't think she'll be wearing any "I survived and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" anytime soon...
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total hatred - Jul 11, 2004 3:40 pm (#139 of 1297)
I think in the final battle, DE and the Order will be taking identical casualties. A death to DE will result a death in the Order. Based on the Chessboard Theory, Ron will be rabid in this battle and that will result to his death. I believe that his love for Hermione will force him to do that. His death will not be wasted since it will allow Harry to checkmate Voldie. Harry might not killed Voldie but he doomed LV to a fate far worse than death.
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Sherbie Lemon - Jul 12, 2004 7:21 am (#140 of 1297)
Even if Voldemort does capture Sybil, I don't think he will be able to extract the prophecy about Harry from her. After all, she doesn't remember it, nor her second. Perhaps a very powerful spell could force her to reveal the prophecy, yet I still don't think it very likely. JKR showed us in PoA that after giving a prophecy, she can't recall the information. However, Voldemort probably does not know this about Trelawney (unless it is common for seers to behave in that manner) and so she is certainly at risk. Nonetheless, her possible capture and subsequent torture in my opinion, would not be fruitful.
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TheQuibbler - Jul 12, 2004 9:08 am (#141 of 1297)
Are we sure that Voldemort even knows that it was Trelawney that gave the prophecy? Only her initials were on the prophecy...
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 1:23 pm (#142 of 1297)
Let it snow!
My brother thinks that JKR would be able to kill either Ron or Hermione (or both! - EEK!) since they are both sort of extentions of Harry as a way of 'killing the hero' without going through the act of actually killing him. I'm not sure if I made any sense there.
What do you think?
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Sherbie Lemon - Jul 12, 2004 1:33 pm (#143 of 1297)
No, Quibbler, we are not sure that Voldemort knows who gave the prophecy. However he is a cunning wizard and I'm sure he could put two and two together. Sybil has been teaching at Hogwarts (under the protection of Dumbledore) for 16 years. Most likely, one of his cronies saw what was written on the prophecy and reported the information back to Voldemort. I'm pretty sure he could figure it out from there, though he may not be as clever as I'm giving him credit for. Doubt it, though.
Sarah, I think you made perfect sense there. However I respond to that theory just as I do to anything that suggests one of the trio may die; by putting my fingers in my ears and humming tunelessly.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 1:48 pm (#144 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Well, I don't think she'd kill off any of the Trio because they act as the audience's window to the story and she wouldn't want to close her audience out. My brother is arguing, however, that she could close part of that window as long as she didn't close all of it before the close of the seventh book. He's also arguing that she could close the window (i.e. kill Harry) at the very end of the story, just before the Epilogue. I however, disagree with that, saying that she would be stuck in the same narrative voice in the Epilogue that she hated so much in the Prologue. No-one likes that chapter because her writing style is such that you are made to feel like a shadow, but in that first chapter, you are a shadow that doesn't belong to anyone and so feel adrift. I think that's why it is one of her, and our, least favorite chapters. I can't see her willingly going back to that voice after all these years. It would leave us too much adrift....
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schoff - Jul 12, 2004 2:20 pm (#145 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Re: Trelawney not remembering the first prophecy and being no use to the Dark Lord.
Bertha Jorkins was under a Memory Charm, and Voldemort broke it "...with a little persuation." He even said it took powerful magic to do so. (GF 33 655 US) He could probably force Trelawney's memory with no problems.
Re: Ron's death.
Yes! Ron is being marked for death! I said this last year (and longer), but no one wants to believe me (although I'm not really surprised why )! I seriously doubt he's going to survive to the end of the the 7th book. JKR has put in so many hints it's unbelievable! It's almost like watching Snuffles die again.
Ron sacrifices himself P/SS
Gets left behind in C/SS
First (with Harry) to get up at the Christmas table in PoA
First injured in climax of PoA
Percy believes he's dead in GF
Molly's first known vision in the boggart scene is Ron's dead body.
Ron jokes about his death in OOP
Ron is one of the most seriously hurt (if not the most seriously hurt) in the Dept. of Mysteries. JKR even spends time describing the blood coming from his mouth.
Ron is always sitting next to Harry when Trelawney is supposedly predicting Harry's death.
Ron nearly always is the one most in danger of being hurt. JKR rarely puts Hermione in the way as often as she does Ron. I'm praying that all these hints are red herrings, but I don't think Ron is safe at all.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 2:29 pm (#146 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Schoff, could you explain these points to me please:
Gets left behind in C/SS
Percy believes he's dead in GF
I don't quite know where you are referring to.
I have to disagree with this some of the evidence simply based on the story progression: 'First injured in climax of PoA'. He's injured because he's chained to Pettigrew, which was his choice. I think that shows more about Ron's character than it does about his possible death.
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Gemini12602 - Jul 12, 2004 2:33 pm (#147 of 1297)
He was first injured in PoA because Sirius (while being the dog) grabbed him by the leg and Harry and Hermione heard it snap as he entered the tunnel under the willow.
I don't want to think that any of the trio will die. Sometimes I think we follow too many hints. Did we have any hints that Sirius would die?
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schoff - Jul 12, 2004 2:43 pm (#148 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
I might have reached on the Percy one, Sarah.
"...but Percy, who looked very white and somehow much younger than usual, came splashing out to meet them....Percy seized Ron and was dragging him back to the bank ('Geroff, Percy, I'm all right!')" (GF 26 504 US) End of second task.
CoS: Willing to face death to save Ginny, gets stranded behind when the cave collapses.
First injured in PoA: His leg is broken long before he's chained to Pettigrew--it happened when Sirius dragged him down the Whomping Willow (PA 17 335 US). And yes, chaining himself to Pettigrew does show Ron's character, just as sacrificing himself in the chess match, and going after Ginny. Which is why I think if he dies, it will be a noble death.
And there were a ton of hints Sirius was marked for death, starting from PoA. We used to have a thread, but I didn't see it archived so I'm assuming the Muncher got it.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 2:44 pm (#149 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Again, though, he was grabbed when he jumped up to shove Harry out of the way and exposed his arm (which Sirius grabbed). This shows his character again, more than anything, at least to me.... (Responding to Gemini12602)
I'm not sure about the CoS one, though. He tried to get through the wall. He seems quite frantic when Harry says he's going to go on without him (I don't think Ron wanted his best friend going it alone against a basilisk) which definately shows character. These all seem to be character building moments to me. I think I see how you are insinuating "death omens" from them, though. I still disagree, but I think I see where you're coming from....
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Hollywand - Jul 12, 2004 5:03 pm (#150 of 1297)
Gryffindor
I always thought Rowling whittles the trio down as we get toward the crucial confrontations as a literary device for Harry's ultimate task. For example, Hermione is taken out during the transformation of Harry and Ron into Crabbe and Goyle. Hermione is taken out during much of the Triwizard Tournament. Harry must ultimately face Voldemort alone in many cases, no Dumbledore, no Sirius, no Hermione or Ron, and emerge triumphant. I'm hoping the all of the trio will emerge as live,strengthy young wizards.
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But Voldy is running out of options. He tried to kill Harry before everyone knew he was back. He tried to get the Prophesy so he could kill Harry. He tried to get Dumbledore to kill Harry.
He's losing followers - most of his Death Squad is in Azkaban. He's got Bella, who I think is a wacko, Peter, who owes Harry, Snape, who is a double agent, Crabbe, who is useless, ditto for Goyle, and a handful of others, including the Nibblers.
He just may try an attack at Privet Drive out of desperation.
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Steve Newton - Jul 7, 2004 1:35 pm (#102 of 1297)
Librarian
Prefect,
"A writer you enjoy uses archetypes. A writer you dislike uses clichés."
Absolutely great.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 7, 2004 1:36 pm (#103 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 7, 2004 1:40 pm
He might just do that, Haymoni.
So the DE's ambush the Privet Drive family, and they let their guard down around the muggles. Then a certain witch who's been in denial all these years will let them have it. No busted wine glass this time! :-)
Marcus
EDIT: Steve, Call me Marcus, please. 'Prefect' is only my title.
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Gemini12602 - Jul 7, 2004 2:25 pm (#104 of 1297)
Prefect Marcus - I would definately say you are right about that. Everyone here seems to know everything else. I still believe that even if her saying it is a rumor, that it is still a good possibility it will happen. Alot of hints point towards Ron... though I would hate Ron to die.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 7, 2004 4:37 pm (#105 of 1297)
Let it snow!
I can't really see JKR killing off any of the Trio. Harry is our eyes and ears in these stories. He is us, for lack of a better word, and killing him would mean killing her audience. She can torture him, make him suffer through trial after trial, and make us suffer with him, but to kill him would be to take us out of the story. Ron and Hermione are, as I've said before, sort of the externalizations of Harry's internals struggles (the devil and angel that sit on his shoulder) and so are extentions of him. She can, likewise, make them suffer or whatnot, but to kill them would be closing a window to her audience as well. I just can't see her doing that. There are no other characters in the series that quite function in this way outside the Trio, so that probably means others are more likely to fall (at least in my opinion), but I feel that, in the end, the Trio, at least, will be standing....
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Mellilot Flower. - Jul 7, 2004 4:44 pm (#106 of 1297)
Pixie led
Ah, SE, you've just said what I've been trying to put my finger on for ages! I knew there was something significant about the "voice" of the books and that the third person narrative wasn't omniscient but in Harry's mind... Thankyou!!!
However, Ron's silence in OotP on the matter of breaking into Umbridge's room to use her fire place suggest's he's less the devil he could be (he actually reminded me of Lupin...)
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Choices - Jul 7, 2004 6:11 pm (#107 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I have had a bad feeling about the scene early in book 5 where Molly is trying to excise the boggart at 12 Grimmauld Place and it shows her various members of her family and Harry, one after another, dead. She weeps uncontrollably and fears it may really happen. Is JKR trying to tell us something here? I hope not, but it worries me nevertheless.
Also, was the name of the street (GRIMmauld Place) where Sirius' home was located, a hint that Sirius would die? Did he have the "grim" even if it was just in the name of the street where he lived?
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Dumbledore - Jul 7, 2004 6:14 pm (#108 of 1297)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I just don't see it possible that ALL of the Weasleys would survive this time around. There are just too many of them to have all of them survive, and like Molly said half of them are in the Order, which makes their likeliness of snuffing it elevated. I certainly don't want any of the Weasleys to die, but I can't help but think it inevitable that at least one of them wouldn't make it through to the end of book 7...
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Gemini12602 - Jul 7, 2004 7:52 pm (#109 of 1297)
Wouldn't it be amazing if at the end of the series we found out this was someones narrative of the events? Most likely Harry's, but what about Dumbledore? He does know pretty much everything that goes on. Ok, maybe not the dreams and such... but it would still be cool if we found out it was Harry writing his own story, but using a third person narrative.
S.E. - You definately have a point, but there are plenty of books and movies where the favorite character, or main character dies in the end. I would probably hate it if Harry dies, but if he did it while taking out Voldemort, then it wouldn't be as bad. Who knows!
Dumbledore - If any Weaslys die, I really hope its only one Weasly... I can't imagine JKR killing off more than one person from the family.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 7, 2004 8:10 pm (#110 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Gemini, yes there are plenty of movies where that happens, but do they share the same sort of narrative style that JKR uses? Doubtful. As I said, to kill off our windows to the story would be to shut those windows and thus would be the writer shutting her readers out. What writere would do that? In other stories, the narrative is usually "phrased" (for lack of a better word) differently so that you are not shown the world purely through certain characters but are "around" certain characters. Thus main charactes and favorites can die without killing the audience too. However, in these books, we are Harry, Ron and Hermione. Not because they are favorites but because of the way JKR wrote the narrative. See what I mean?
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Hollywand - Jul 7, 2004 8:33 pm (#111 of 1297)
Gryffindor
One reason why I think the Dursleys might be candidates for death, is that it gives Rowling the opportunity to explore another facet of death through Harry's voice---the death of someone we may not care for very much. This event has rich potential to begin a complex discussion about the deaths of muggles Harry knew very well, did not like because of their cruelty to him, yet he has to feel strangely connected to them. I also think perhaps Rowling will open Book six by giving us the events of the death of James and Lilly--now, the readers are so attached to them, it will be wrenching and riveting. To connect it to the death of the Dursleys in the present (for Harry) would be a riveting turn of events. It seems to me that the protection Lilly gave to Harry initially has been somewhat undermined by Voldemort, and Voldemort has regained enough strenght to perhaps make a second attempt to vanquish Harry whilst at Muggle Manor.
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Gemini12602 - Jul 7, 2004 8:41 pm (#112 of 1297)
S.E. - I definately see what you mean now. It makes sense going with how she took out the scene in the Malfoys Manor. So far everything has been through Harrys eyes, or through dreams connected with Voldemort.
Hollywand - I definately believe the opening of the book will be the death of Harrys parents and it will most likely be through a dream of Harrys. Its the only way I really see Harry finding out what really happened other than Voldemort telling him, or showing him (similar to the diary). For some reason though, I do not see the Dursleys dying, but it could be possible.
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 7, 2004 9:15 pm (#113 of 1297)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
I posted previously that I thought that Harry may die at the end of the series, sacrificing himself to save the world. I am not so sure anymore. I still think he will sacrifice himself, but in a different way. DD is always saying that there are certain things worse than death and that Riddle's inability to see that is his biggest weakness. I think now that Harry will have a fate worse than death, a permenant bed a St. Mungo's addled brains ward. However, I still believe that DD, one of the Dudley's, the Malfoys, Hagrid, Figgy, Mudungus, and Lupin as well as some other less important baddies are going to be shown the permenant exit.
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Diagon Nilly - Jul 7, 2004 11:54 pm (#114 of 1297)
Perhaps Molly is the goner. When she saw her Boggart, she saw everyone in the family except for herself. The irony would be is she were the one to die, but no one else in her family.
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total hatred - Jul 8, 2004 4:20 am (#115 of 1297)
Ron. difinitely based on the Chessboard Theory if Mrs Rowling will follow this theory. I love him dead. Good riddance.
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Chris. - Jul 8, 2004 4:59 am (#116 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Total Hatred, I like Ron!
Before OP came out, I was so sure that it would be either Mr Weasley or Mrs Weasley. Alas, I was wrong. It was Sirius.
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TMM - Jul 8, 2004 6:08 am (#117 of 1297)
If any of the Weasley's die, I suggest it would be Percy. He seems to be the one who is most interested in gaining power and he could easily get caught in the power struggle between Voldemort/Death Eaters and Dumbledore/Order. While I think he will eventually become a supporter of the Order, I think it is possible that he will be used and ultimately killed by the Death Eaters (Malfoy?) as a pawn in the overall war.
Toby
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Steve Newton - Jul 8, 2004 6:55 am (#118 of 1297)
Librarian
Several people have spoken of Molly's episode with the boggart in OOTP. The only family member that she does not see dead is Charlie. I think, from this, that we should not get too attached to the eldest Weasley.
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Chris. - Jul 8, 2004 6:59 am (#119 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Er... eldest? I think you mean second-eldest.
I think the chain of Boggart formations would have continued after Harry's lifeless body. I thought Ginny wasn't included either? Maybe I'm wrong.
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Gemini12602 - Jul 8, 2004 10:46 am (#120 of 1297)
Its funny how JKR threw instances into OotP that seemed like other people were going to die. When Harry first sees Mrs Weasley with the boggart it says something like "There lying on the floor, clearly dead was Ron". I remember first reading that and being like "WHAT!?!?" but then it changed and we all knew what it was. Then when Arthur was attacked by the snake... this time it seemed possible Arthur would die, but he did not. Then right before Sirius dies, it seemed possible that i could have been Tonks.
(OotP Ch. 35 pg. 803) "They both ducked again. A jet of green light had narrowly missed Sirius; across the room Harry saw Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat, and Bellatrix, triumphant, running back toward the fray."
When Sirius fell through the veil I didn't think any thing of it. It was when Lupin told Harry that Sirius was gone that I understood. To me she had the events so close together to confuses us, especially green light hitting Tonks (which we all relate to the AK curse, but must not have been) and red light (which we all relate to stunning spells) hitting Sirius. I think it was a very clever way to do the death. It kinda happened suddenly and you didn't expect it.
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Neville Longbottom - Jul 8, 2004 11:06 am (#121 of 1297)
No, Prongs, you're right. She didn't see Ginny either.
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Steve Newton - Jul 8, 2004 1:03 pm (#122 of 1297)
Librarian
"She didn't see Ginny either."
Uh oh! There go a lot of 'shipping discussions.
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tracie1976 - Jul 9, 2004 12:44 pm (#123 of 1297)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
We don't know how many "dead" bodies or whose "dead" bodies Mrs. Weasley saw before Harry arrived to see "dead" Ron laying on the floor.
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schoff - Jul 9, 2004 1:02 pm (#124 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Yeah, but when an author "interrupts" a piece of narrative, that usually means something important nearly gets revealed that the author doesn't yet want you to know. Also--the author *chooses* where to start and end the narrative, so the sequence starting with Ron and ending with Harry could be highly significant. JKR did name the chapter after that one particular event.
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Star Crossed - Jul 9, 2004 2:04 pm (#125 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I, for one, never thought Ron was dead. I read it, but it never clicked. I just kept reading. Maybe I was just used to her writing, that I knew he wasn't dead. Same for Hermione.
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TheQuibbler - Jul 9, 2004 2:32 pm (#126 of 1297)
I really can't see Ron dying in book 6, because I just can't see Harry returning to Hogwarts without Ron.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jul 10, 2004 5:07 pm (#127 of 1297)
No day but Today
I think that, most unfortunatly that one of the Weasleys will die. I think that it will be either Arthur or Molly, most likely Molly. She doesn't have a carrer so it wouldn't cause any more financial strain on the family, plus she has become more prevalent in the series. JKR doesn't kill off minor characters
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 10, 2004 8:05 pm (#128 of 1297)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
I'd say that Molly keeps the whole family together so her death could and would cause strain, financial and otherwise. She makes a lot of things. She knits, bakes, etc. Her career is her family. However, that being said, it would make her a likely candidate for the axe.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 10, 2004 10:59 pm (#129 of 1297)
I seem to recall an interview in which, J.K. Rowling said something to the effect that she was astounded at how many readers did not see Hermione as being vulnerable. Although, I cannot at present recall the exact quote.
As for other candidates who are likely to die there are several candidates that I can see as being marked for death
In addition to those who have been named by others. I would add the the names of three others.
First, Amelia Bones, if elected Minister of Magic would pose a threat to Voldemort's ability to consolidate power.
Second, Sibyl Trelawney may be at risk because, she holds important information regarding the prophecy
Third, of the members of the DA, Susan Bones is at risk because of her being a Bones and because, of the close relationship between Amelia and Susan.
Best Regards, Nathan
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S.E. Jones - Jul 11, 2004 12:49 am (#130 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Ooh, I hadn't thought of Susan, Nathan, that's an interesting suggestion. She would especially be a good target, in a literary manner, if she started providing Harry with some pertinent information she heard (or rather overheard) from her Aunt Amelia. I could definately see Voldemort sending a DE to target her over a Christmas break or something.
Hey, there's a question. If a student were going to die, especially if it were a main character, how would the situation arise? I could see an attack happening on a normal student during a break, but Harry, Ron and Hermione are well guarded (unless they go out on their own). Any other thoughts?
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Weeny Owl - Jul 11, 2004 3:13 am (#131 of 1297)
Nathan:
I believe this may be what you're talking about:
It's great to hear feedback from the kids. Mostly they are really worried about Ron. As if I'm going to kill Harry's best friend. What I find interesting is only once has anyone said to me, "Don't kill Hermione," and that was after a reading when I said no one's ever worried about her. Another kid said, "Yeah, well, she's bound to get through O.K." They see her as someone who is not vulnerable, but I see her as someone who does have quite a lot of vulnerability in her personality. Hermione is me, near enough. A caricature of me when I was younger. I wasn't that clever. But I was that annoying on occasion. Girls are very tolerant of her because she is not an uncommon female type-the little girl who feels plain and hugely compensates by working very hard and wanting to get everything just so.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Star Crossed - Jul 11, 2004 6:32 am (#132 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't think Trelawney needs to worry about being killed. If Voldemort does manage to get her, he'll keep her alive so she can make prophecies for them.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jul 11, 2004 8:35 am (#133 of 1297)
No day but Today
Susan could be a good choise. I never thought of that. I can't see Hermione though. That would be horrible if she died. I don't think its her. I think it would be someone whom was not nessesarily a major character before, like Susan
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Aud Duck - Jul 11, 2004 10:40 am (#134 of 1297)
"I know I have to beat time when I learn Music." "Ahh, that accounts for it. He won't stand beating."--Alice in Wonderland
Other than Dumbledore (come on, folks, it's not just Star Wars; every wise mentor disappears), I see Snape, Dobby, Hagrid, and possibly Neville and Tonks as being at highest risk. Snape's going to do something surprising at the end--JKR's been setting that up for ages--and I see that as culminating in Snape's death. Hagrid and Dobby have the misfortune of being incredibly loyal characters whose loyalty is directed almost entirely at Harry and Dumbledore, the two people Voldemort is most intent on getting rid of. And they tend to rush to people's aid without really considering the consequences. Tonks is a peripheral character that we really like. Her death would add a new dimension to the war without leaving a void in Harry's heart. Neville is Harry's complement. He's a lot like Harry, even excluding the prophecy. By the end of this, he's going to be a powerful wizard (besides the foreshadowing of this in the OP, he has exactly the qualities Harry has, just not the confidence), and I can easily see him making the sacrifice that will allow Harry to defeat Voldemort in the end. And lots of really peripheral characters (like Hermione's parents, Madam Rosmerta, and Dedalus Diggle) just to show that the war is still happening out there even if only a few of our main people die.
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Gemini12602 - Jul 11, 2004 11:03 am (#135 of 1297)
I don't want to see Snape die, because I want to see Harry and Snape get along at the end of the series. I hope that happens, it would be cool!
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schoff - Jul 11, 2004 12:06 pm (#136 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Trelawney has always been my first choice for the next victim. She's in extreme danger. Voldemort wants to know that Prophecy, and only Dumbledore, Harry, and Trelawney know it. Harry and DD certainly aren't going to tell him, so that leaves Trelawney. DD knows this, that's why he won't let her leave the Castle. She's definitely a target.
I think Snape will survive to the end. So will Lupin. Mad-Eye, Dumbledore, Hagrid, and Ron won't be so lucky. I think Mad-Eye will die off-camera though.
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Neville Longbottom - Jul 11, 2004 12:22 pm (#137 of 1297)
I am sure Trelawney won't be the next victim, because I'm absolutely certain she will make a third prophecy. Those things always come in threes in legends and fairytales and there's no way somebody will convince me, that Trelawney won't make another prophecy. And since in my opinion book 6 would be to soon for another prophecy I think she has to live until book 7. Than I think she's in great danger, on the one hand because she is literally speaking the heiress of Cassandra (Trelawney), and the greek Cassandra met a very tragic end, on the other hand because it would be an ironic twist, because she always predicted Harry's death. I agree that Voldemort probably doesn't want her dead, but since I tend to think that the last battle will be at Hogwarts, everyone could die just because they are there, that includes Trelawney.
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schoff - Jul 11, 2004 12:32 pm (#138 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
True, she probably won't be the *next*, but I'm don't think she'll be wearing any "I survived and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" anytime soon...
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total hatred - Jul 11, 2004 3:40 pm (#139 of 1297)
I think in the final battle, DE and the Order will be taking identical casualties. A death to DE will result a death in the Order. Based on the Chessboard Theory, Ron will be rabid in this battle and that will result to his death. I believe that his love for Hermione will force him to do that. His death will not be wasted since it will allow Harry to checkmate Voldie. Harry might not killed Voldie but he doomed LV to a fate far worse than death.
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Sherbie Lemon - Jul 12, 2004 7:21 am (#140 of 1297)
Even if Voldemort does capture Sybil, I don't think he will be able to extract the prophecy about Harry from her. After all, she doesn't remember it, nor her second. Perhaps a very powerful spell could force her to reveal the prophecy, yet I still don't think it very likely. JKR showed us in PoA that after giving a prophecy, she can't recall the information. However, Voldemort probably does not know this about Trelawney (unless it is common for seers to behave in that manner) and so she is certainly at risk. Nonetheless, her possible capture and subsequent torture in my opinion, would not be fruitful.
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TheQuibbler - Jul 12, 2004 9:08 am (#141 of 1297)
Are we sure that Voldemort even knows that it was Trelawney that gave the prophecy? Only her initials were on the prophecy...
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 1:23 pm (#142 of 1297)
Let it snow!
My brother thinks that JKR would be able to kill either Ron or Hermione (or both! - EEK!) since they are both sort of extentions of Harry as a way of 'killing the hero' without going through the act of actually killing him. I'm not sure if I made any sense there.
What do you think?
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Sherbie Lemon - Jul 12, 2004 1:33 pm (#143 of 1297)
No, Quibbler, we are not sure that Voldemort knows who gave the prophecy. However he is a cunning wizard and I'm sure he could put two and two together. Sybil has been teaching at Hogwarts (under the protection of Dumbledore) for 16 years. Most likely, one of his cronies saw what was written on the prophecy and reported the information back to Voldemort. I'm pretty sure he could figure it out from there, though he may not be as clever as I'm giving him credit for. Doubt it, though.
Sarah, I think you made perfect sense there. However I respond to that theory just as I do to anything that suggests one of the trio may die; by putting my fingers in my ears and humming tunelessly.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 1:48 pm (#144 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Well, I don't think she'd kill off any of the Trio because they act as the audience's window to the story and she wouldn't want to close her audience out. My brother is arguing, however, that she could close part of that window as long as she didn't close all of it before the close of the seventh book. He's also arguing that she could close the window (i.e. kill Harry) at the very end of the story, just before the Epilogue. I however, disagree with that, saying that she would be stuck in the same narrative voice in the Epilogue that she hated so much in the Prologue. No-one likes that chapter because her writing style is such that you are made to feel like a shadow, but in that first chapter, you are a shadow that doesn't belong to anyone and so feel adrift. I think that's why it is one of her, and our, least favorite chapters. I can't see her willingly going back to that voice after all these years. It would leave us too much adrift....
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schoff - Jul 12, 2004 2:20 pm (#145 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Re: Trelawney not remembering the first prophecy and being no use to the Dark Lord.
Bertha Jorkins was under a Memory Charm, and Voldemort broke it "...with a little persuation." He even said it took powerful magic to do so. (GF 33 655 US) He could probably force Trelawney's memory with no problems.
Re: Ron's death.
Yes! Ron is being marked for death! I said this last year (and longer), but no one wants to believe me (although I'm not really surprised why )! I seriously doubt he's going to survive to the end of the the 7th book. JKR has put in so many hints it's unbelievable! It's almost like watching Snuffles die again.
Ron sacrifices himself P/SS
Gets left behind in C/SS
First (with Harry) to get up at the Christmas table in PoA
First injured in climax of PoA
Percy believes he's dead in GF
Molly's first known vision in the boggart scene is Ron's dead body.
Ron jokes about his death in OOP
Ron is one of the most seriously hurt (if not the most seriously hurt) in the Dept. of Mysteries. JKR even spends time describing the blood coming from his mouth.
Ron is always sitting next to Harry when Trelawney is supposedly predicting Harry's death.
Ron nearly always is the one most in danger of being hurt. JKR rarely puts Hermione in the way as often as she does Ron. I'm praying that all these hints are red herrings, but I don't think Ron is safe at all.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 2:29 pm (#146 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Schoff, could you explain these points to me please:
Gets left behind in C/SS
Percy believes he's dead in GF
I don't quite know where you are referring to.
I have to disagree with this some of the evidence simply based on the story progression: 'First injured in climax of PoA'. He's injured because he's chained to Pettigrew, which was his choice. I think that shows more about Ron's character than it does about his possible death.
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Gemini12602 - Jul 12, 2004 2:33 pm (#147 of 1297)
He was first injured in PoA because Sirius (while being the dog) grabbed him by the leg and Harry and Hermione heard it snap as he entered the tunnel under the willow.
I don't want to think that any of the trio will die. Sometimes I think we follow too many hints. Did we have any hints that Sirius would die?
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schoff - Jul 12, 2004 2:43 pm (#148 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
I might have reached on the Percy one, Sarah.
"...but Percy, who looked very white and somehow much younger than usual, came splashing out to meet them....Percy seized Ron and was dragging him back to the bank ('Geroff, Percy, I'm all right!')" (GF 26 504 US) End of second task.
CoS: Willing to face death to save Ginny, gets stranded behind when the cave collapses.
First injured in PoA: His leg is broken long before he's chained to Pettigrew--it happened when Sirius dragged him down the Whomping Willow (PA 17 335 US). And yes, chaining himself to Pettigrew does show Ron's character, just as sacrificing himself in the chess match, and going after Ginny. Which is why I think if he dies, it will be a noble death.
And there were a ton of hints Sirius was marked for death, starting from PoA. We used to have a thread, but I didn't see it archived so I'm assuming the Muncher got it.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 2:44 pm (#149 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Again, though, he was grabbed when he jumped up to shove Harry out of the way and exposed his arm (which Sirius grabbed). This shows his character again, more than anything, at least to me.... (Responding to Gemini12602)
I'm not sure about the CoS one, though. He tried to get through the wall. He seems quite frantic when Harry says he's going to go on without him (I don't think Ron wanted his best friend going it alone against a basilisk) which definately shows character. These all seem to be character building moments to me. I think I see how you are insinuating "death omens" from them, though. I still disagree, but I think I see where you're coming from....
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Hollywand - Jul 12, 2004 5:03 pm (#150 of 1297)
Gryffindor
I always thought Rowling whittles the trio down as we get toward the crucial confrontations as a literary device for Harry's ultimate task. For example, Hermione is taken out during the transformation of Harry and Ron into Crabbe and Goyle. Hermione is taken out during much of the Triwizard Tournament. Harry must ultimately face Voldemort alone in many cases, no Dumbledore, no Sirius, no Hermione or Ron, and emerge triumphant. I'm hoping the all of the trio will emerge as live,strengthy young wizards.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
Age : 52
Location : France
Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 151 to 200)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 10:40 am
Leila 2X4B - Jul 12, 2004 8:05 pm (#151 of 1297)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Back to the point of whether Voldy knows that Trewlawney made the prophesy. I am sure the follower who was detected partway through it caught her name in the midst of it. Whomever told Voldy about likely told him who was giving it.
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Hollywand - Jul 12, 2004 8:34 pm (#152 of 1297)
Gryffindor
When the Prophecy globe was smashed, wasn't there a ghost image of Trelawney that emerged and repeated the words, but noone could hear for the noise of the fight? If any of the Death Eaters present saw her image, they would recognize her, but interestingly enough, Harry didn't recognize her image at the time.
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schoff - Jul 12, 2004 11:38 pm (#153 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
SE: These all seem to be character building moments to me.
To me, at the very least, the 13 at dinner, Molly's bogart, and Ron's jokes should raise suspicions. These aren't character building moments.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 13, 2004 12:18 am (#154 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Very true, though that's only three. I've also heard the fact that his middle name is Bilius might point to him dying (Bilius being the uncle who saw the Grim). I honestly don't think he was kidding about the "I don't care if my tea leave say 'die, Ron, die' thing. I think he was being quite serious there, so I'm not sure how to take that one. I (and some other members on the forum) have toyed with the idea that this might be pointing toward something else....
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schoff - Jul 13, 2004 12:30 am (#155 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Ooh! Do tell, SE! I've been away for awhile, and catching up on the character posts has been quite daunting! I'd do anything to find some ideas that would fit, and that mean that Ron isn't a goner!
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schoff - Jul 13, 2004 1:07 am (#156 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Ah! Missed the thirty minute mark! Blast!
I actually do know what you're talking about SE. Just needed my little gray cells to click in...Ron'd really die if it were true though!
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Steve Newton - Jul 13, 2004 6:30 am (#157 of 1297)
Librarian
"I actually do know what you're talking about SE. Just needed my little gray cells to click in...Ron'd really die if it were true though"
OK Schoff and S.E. I don't get it. What am I missing?
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Cuivienen - Jul 13, 2004 11:51 am (#158 of 1297)
When the Prophecy globe was smashed, wasn't there a ghost image of Trelawney that emerged and repeated the words, but noone could hear for the noise of the fight? If any of the Death Eaters present saw her image, they would recognize her, but interestingly enough, Harry didn't recognize her image at the time.
The prophecy was made 16 years ago. Maybe she looked different then. Of course, it was also in the middle of a battle, so he may have thought she looked familiar, but not recognized Trelawney.
Anyway, as far as death predictions go, I'm pretty convinced that these people will die:
Ron, Dumbledore, Lupin, Peter, Moody, the Dursleys, the Grangers (sans Hermione), Neville
colbow - Jul 13, 2004 12:39 pm (#159 of 1297)[/b]
Now I don't know if JKR has said some one will die in book 6 (set me striaght if she did) wonder if she will even have someone die........hmmm, maybe it will just be a all out fight , then really sock it to us in book 7.....just a wild thought, but I still think it will be the Dursleys and I might be jumping on the Trelawney wagon, because if V-Mort thinks he can get the answer from her. Thou, I am not sure how he would get to her if she never leaves the castle. Just some wild ideas.
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total hatred - Jul 13, 2004 1:58 pm (#160 of 1297)
Ron will die to save Hermione.
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schoff - Jul 13, 2004 4:37 pm (#161 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
colbow: The body count is supposed to rise significantly with the next two books.
Steve Newton: Ron's jokes are always right. It's possible he's a seer. It's been discussed quite a bit in the Ron thread.
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Steve Newton - Jul 14, 2004 5:59 am (#162 of 1297)
Librarian
Ah (slaps forehead), if course.
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Plinker - Jul 14, 2004 3:00 pm (#163 of 1297)
May all your Boggarts be easy
I believe that Jo stated in an early interview that there would be deaths,however, not more deaths. Hmmmm..... If you look at the foreshadowing for Ron (especially the chess game in book one), I believe this has already played out. The beating he took in joining the Quiddich team, physical and emotional, along with the chant "Weasly is our king",can be tied to the chess game,in which he (Ron) actually survived in the end, in both events.
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Maarcus Humill - Jul 14, 2004 9:30 pm (#164 of 1297)
I have a theory here. I think that Hermione will be killed in the final battle. That's when Harry realizes that he truly love her and has for a very long time. Using that love he will destroy Voldemort.
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rosi reef - Jul 15, 2004 3:24 am (#165 of 1297)
No, I don't think, this is going to happen, because J.K.Rowling has put a lot of effort into showing us that Hermione and Ron have feelings for each other beyond friendship. I rather assume they will have a nice future together after Hogwarts.
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tracie1976 - Jul 15, 2004 11:10 am (#166 of 1297)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
After re-reading CoS for the millionth time, I think Ginny will die, if not, she will come awfully close to it.
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haymoni - Jul 15, 2004 11:17 am (#167 of 1297)
Oh Tracie - not our Ginny!!
Or is this some sort of attempt to remove Hermione's competition?
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tracie1976 - Jul 15, 2004 11:36 am (#168 of 1297)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
quote haymoni: Or is this some sort of attempt to remove Hermione's competition?
lol no its not an attempt to remove Hermione's competition. Its just that for the first time I got goose bumps reading the scene where Tom tells all and says that Ginny poured her soul into the diary as he poured his soul into Ginny.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 16, 2004 1:36 am (#169 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Oh my, found a quote from JKR that doesn't look good....
Canadian Broadcasting Co, July 2000:
E: You know, characters take on their own lives. They have their own stories. Writers often say, 'I loved that character and the most tragic part of my year last year was having to kill them off.'
JK: Well that's coming.
E: Do you know already who is going to die in the next books?
JK: I know all of them who are going to die, yeah.
E: And some characters we might love and you might love?
JK: I'm definitely killing people I love, yeah. (Waves to fans outside) It's horrible, isn't it? (Laughs) It is actually. I cried during the writing of that one [Book Four] for the first time ever. I cried doing the actual writing of it. It really upset me.
E: It opens with a murder and then there's one at the end, which I won't say who it is. And you cried then?
JK: Yeah.
E: But in the future there's even more...
JK: (Laughs deeply) There's worse coming.
E: Is there? There's even worse coming, isn't there?
JK: I don't know why I'm laughing. It's mild hysteria. (Looks at camera) I've got all these children peering in at me [from outside the train]. If they knew I was talking about slaughtering their favourite characters. (Waves vigorously to fans) Hallo!
E: People love Ron, for example. Kids think you're going to knock off Ron because he's the best friend.
JK: Kids do, exactly, because they're sharp and they've seen so many films where the hero's best friend gets it. So they think I'm going to make it personal by killing Ron. But maybe that's a double bluff... (Laughs)
E: Now that you know they expect it, do you give it to them?
JK: No, I decided...It's not that I sat down with a list and decided to write, 'You're going, you're going, you're going.' There are reasons for the deaths in each case, in terms of the story. So that's why I'm doing it.
Did you notice the comment about favorite characters?!
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schoff - Jul 16, 2004 11:09 am (#170 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Isn't Lupin one of her favorite characters? Hagrid too?
I've already marked Hagrid for Death. I think he'd be a good ghost. Lupin I always figured for a survivor.
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spug - Jul 16, 2004 11:42 am (#171 of 1297)
"Did you notice the comment about favorite characters?!"
Yes, well, I'm hoping she doesn't mean favorite favorite characters. I mean, Sirius was one of my favorite characters. I hope she doesn't kill off any more important a character that he was. To be honest, I wouldn't be too devastated if Hagrid died, and like schoff, I have always seen Lupin as a survivor. Dumbledore I also see dying, but I like the theory of him going through the veil voluntarily.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 16, 2004 4:28 pm (#172 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Er, do you mean him going through the veil figuratively or literally?
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Gemini12602 - Jul 16, 2004 5:22 pm (#173 of 1297)
Yeah... wouldnt Dumbledore going voluntarily into the veil be suicide?
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haymoni - Jul 16, 2004 6:00 pm (#174 of 1297)
If someone held on to you really tight, could you push the Veil aside and look at what is behind it?
Maybe Dumbledore can tell Harry about the purpose of the room. I still think it was an old execution chamber.
I've been wondering why we were introduced to Hestia Jones and some of the others - maybe they will be some of the first to die.
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 6:21 pm (#175 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't think Dumbledore walking through the Veil would be suicide. I can see the scene in my head now, like LOTR Gandalf leaving for the Undying Lands.
I think some of the Order members were introduced to die! I know it sounds terrible but it would be just a bit bland if someone unknown died rather than having someone who Harry has met or in HbP, might get to know more.
If someone held on to you really tight, could you push the Veil aside and look at what is behind it?-Haymoni
I don't know about that one. I think someone in the DOM may have tried it and not succeeded.
As much as I think Dumbly will die, I'll miss him!
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Hollywand - Jul 18, 2004 10:02 am (#176 of 1297)
Gryffindor
The centaur statue taking the Avada Kedavra curse on behalf of Dumbledore could be a harbinger of Firenze's death. And perhaps, Snape will "Sever the Snake" rather than "Serve the Snake" but it will cost him his life.
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tracie1976 - Jul 21, 2004 4:50 am (#177 of 1297)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
You guys are going to hate me but I've got a few more names to add to my growing list of people who are going to die lol.
Molly Weasley: there was 13 dining at the table when she got up and got dessert on Harry's first night at Grimmauld Place and Mundungus Fletcher: he was smoking a black pipe which had green smoke billowing out of it and green has to do with being gangerous (I posted it somewhere associated with Ron on his thread but can't find it).
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Neville Longbottom - Jul 21, 2004 10:25 am (#178 of 1297)
I am sure Mundungus will survive. The characters I dislike normally survive, and my favourites are killed off. From that point of view, Mundungus will be absolutely save.
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total hatred - Jul 21, 2004 3:16 pm (#179 of 1297)
Mudungus is far too sneaky to die
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 22, 2004 3:19 am (#180 of 1297)
Please may Sybil Trelawny die. No, she's too funny. Let's keep her. But as for Umbridge. I believe she was saved from the centaurs for a much worse fate.
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Cuivienen - Jul 22, 2004 7:42 pm (#181 of 1297)
Interesting note, tracie, but I think that might have been unintentional on the part of JKR. After all, there would some sort of comment about "all thirteen of them sitting down" or something if she wanted us to connect it with the scene in PoA.
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Steve Newton - Jul 23, 2004 6:48 am (#182 of 1297)
Librarian
Cuivienen,
In POA there are 13, by my count, at the Christmas dinner. JKR doesn't tell you this you have to count. Sirius is the first one to get up.
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Crookshanks - Jul 23, 2004 6:55 am (#183 of 1297)
I really dunno why some people think DD will walk thru the veil. DD knows the prophecy all right.Harry's the one who has to kill Voldemort. But, this doesn't mean he's going to die just to let Harry take on Voldemort single-handedly. DD is going to extend utmost support to Harry before he perishes, which should be at the final battle & not by merely walking thru the veil. He's going to give stiff resistance to the Dark side as long as possible. The longer it is, the better it is for Harry. He can prepare better. And what makes people think that we're going to DoM again ? For the brains ? Yeah possible !! Not otherwise.
So, DD is going to die trying to save Harry & the WW from Voldemort & not just walking thru a veil...... He'll die a royal death if he ever does....
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Crookshanks - Jul 23, 2004 7:42 am (#184 of 1297)
Wanted to add some more. Either Ron or Hermione will die,methinks.
We know that if Harry's gotta kill Voldie, it's going to be using the power 'the dark lord knows not'.DD told Harry that his ability to feel pain was his greatest strength (OoP,The Lost Prophecy). And then Voldie told Harry that Lily had used ancient magic with which he couldn't touch Harry even after Lily was dead, the magic that saved him from Quirrel as well. But,interestingly enough, Voldie touched Harry in GoF & nothing happened.Does this mean that the ancient magic has worn out ?
For Harry to use his 'best weapon' against Voldie, he's got to feel the strongest form of love.Whom does he love most in the world (apart from his parents & Sirius)? Ron first, then Hermione ('platonic' friendship albeit). He can strengthen his strength only if Ron sacrifices himself. The true value of love can be experienced only when it is absent. So, I guess it's gonna be like Ron dies & Harry faces Voldie full of emotions, may be a river of tears & then does Voldie in. An AK is then useless.Why Ron ? Because he's the one Harry misses most (GoF-Task2 & many ither situations).
The other possibility is that Harry begins to place Hermione above Ron ,may be because he realises how much he's unknowingly loved her & then Hermione takes the beating.This seems unlikely, because of the Chess Board equation & because of various anti-H/Hr statements.
Also,I read this somewhere - the Knight(Ron) can only 'hop' across the board in steps of 3.But the Bishop(Harry) & Rook(Hermione) can cover almost the entire board all by themselves are their combination is next most powerful to the Queen, the most powerful pawn on the board.
And as per my experience with the game, there is always a way out of a stalemate with 2 pawns if one of them is a Knight, not always quite the same with a bishop & a rook (i won one such 30 minutes ago & thought of putting it here). This makes me believe that 2 of them will matter in the final countdown - Harry & Hermione - & Harry will be the one to 'stalemate' the king as in the PS/SS Chessgame, while Hermione holds the other end tight.May be Neville has an important role too,( as the other bishop). For we know, these 3 bore most of the brunt of the DEs at DoM & they showed what they were really capable of.
Disagreements welcome....
BTW, are there statements of JKR's where she's denied the death from amongst the trio ? If so, throw this theory into the trash can.
Other certain deaths IMO include DD,McG,Snape,Moody & a lot of the bad guys.Not very sure about the other Weasleys,Hagrid & Lupin.As someone pointed out,the Grangers are a high possibility too & that would make Hermione 'respect & regard' death a little more & make her the 'female Harry'.It'll be a touching scene if that ever happens. And may be finally, if Harry survives (with a soul),which I'm really apprehensive of,Molly would adopt Harry & Hermione.......
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Amilia Smith - Jul 23, 2004 2:32 pm (#185 of 1297)
I have read discussions elsewhere on the forum giving Ron's Unicorn hair wand as a foreshadowing of his death. (The unicorns that die in SS, Cedric's wand also contained a unicorn hair, etc.)
Taking this speculation a step further . . .
Both Voldemort and Harry have phoenix tail feathers as the cores of their wands. We have seen Voldemort die (sort of) and be reborn. Could Harry possibly die but find a way to be reborn?
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Cuivienen - Jul 23, 2004 8:02 pm (#186 of 1297)
Steve - But she does tell us. Trelawney says it explicitly.
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Hollywand - Jul 23, 2004 9:18 pm (#187 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Part of the deaths will be historical deaths: descriptions of events leading to James' and Lilly's deaths. Even though these deaths won't be in Harry's present time, they will be painful to discover. Perhaps other historical deaths of Phoenix Members as well. The suffering of the Longbottoms recounted.
Firenze appearing in Sibyll's position tells me that Sibyll is vulnerable.
Firenze as well because the centaur statue took a hit for Dumbledore in the Order.
The Dursleys will die; this gives Rowling an opportunity to explore feelings around the deaths of someone that the protaganist has ambivalent feelings about.
I am thinking that Lucius Malfoy and Narcissa Malfoy will die at the hands of Voldemort, and Draco will develop a compassion for Harry and Neville's suffering as a result.
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Gemini12602 - Jul 24, 2004 12:13 am (#188 of 1297)
Cuivienen - Jul 23, 2004 8:02 pm (#186 of 187) Steve - But she does tell us. Trelawney says it explicitly.
Please do explain lol.
EDIT: Wait... was this in response to dinner in POA, not the one where people said Mrs Weasley was the first to leave from 13 at another point?
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Steve Newton - Jul 24, 2004 6:30 am (#189 of 1297)
Librarian
The POA one. I may hve the wrong book. the OOTP Christmas dinner. I don't recall any explicit mention of 13.
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Steve Newton - Jul 24, 2004 12:19 pm (#190 of 1297)
Librarian
So much for trying to make points by relying on my memory. I finally went back to the OOTP book. It is not Christmas dinner with 13 people. I think that it is Harry's first dinner at 12 Grimmauld Place. Chapter 6 in the book. Present at the meal are Harry, Ron, Hermione, Arthur, Molly, Ginny, Fred, George, Bill, Lupin, Sirius, Mundungus, and Tonks. 13 by my count. JKR does not point this out in the text. The first one to rise from the table is Sirius. I guess that I am not giving anything away when I say that things don't seem to turn out to well for him by the end of the book.
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Laurelin - Jul 26, 2004 12:27 am (#191 of 1297)
Sorry, I have nothing new to add to this discussion, but on another MB we are also currently discussing possible deaths and somebody has brought up that JKR has said at one point that one of the Weasleys will die... now... I won't believe she's said something that specific until I read the interview/chat/whatever on my comp-screen... Do any of you here remember that she has indeed said s.th. like that and can tell me where I can find the exact quote (if it exists)? Another thing: Is there somewhere a list in the Lexicon with clues to possible deaths?
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Steve Newton - Jul 26, 2004 9:48 am (#192 of 1297)
Librarian
T. Brightwater says in the Nymphadora Tonks forum: "There is a St. Nymphodora on the Eastern calendar, feast day September 10. She was a virgin martyr of the early fourth century. She and her two sisters were holy women and healers, and all were torured to death."
This sounds like bad news for Tonks.
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Hollywand - Jul 26, 2004 5:45 pm (#193 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Laurelin, you can research the threads of the Lexicon as you scroll down this page for that topic of "Weasley" and "Death". I have never heard that convincingly confirmed, that Jo said one of the Weasleys die, and I think it's just a rumour that she said that incorporated as fact. I hope that helps some. Check out the jkr chat transcript above. Don't you think that question (which Weasley) would have been put to her repeatedly since they are such developed characters in the story?
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Steve Newton - Aug 4, 2004 12:31 pm (#194 of 1297)
Librarian
I was just reading the Longbottoms forum. The point has been made that Alice seems to be doing much better than Frank. Since Frank's wand is broken in OOTP I think that Frank is not going to be with us much longer.
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James T. Kirk - Aug 4, 2004 2:26 pm (#195 of 1297)
Captain USS Enterprise NCC 1701-A
If anyone is going to die in book six or seven I personally think it'll be Snape, but if he does die I hope it's a heroes death trying to save Harry and company....now wouldn't THAT be something SNAPE DYING TO SAVE HARRY?
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T Brightwater - Aug 4, 2004 3:01 pm (#196 of 1297)
I've thought of that one too, Captain. I wonder what kind of magical protection it would confer on Harry if someone who hates him gives his life for him?
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Ann - Aug 5, 2004 8:08 am (#197 of 1297)
Snape dying to save Harry would have interesting repercussions, but even more interesting, I think, would be Neville dying to save Snape (after reviving his parents and taking care of Bellatrix, of course). Wouldn't that make Snape feel bad!
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Kasse - Aug 6, 2004 6:23 am (#198 of 1297)
Neville dieing to save Snape, Ann that would be something! I would hate to see Neville go though, I would hate to see Snape go too.
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 6, 2004 1:47 pm (#199 of 1297)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
How about Petunia or Vernon or Dudley dying? Dudley's already had a close shave with Death Eaters.
I dislike the Dursleys but don't necessarily want them to die (OK maybe Vernon, he's the worst IMO). But I could see such a scenario contributing to Harry's shortest stay at Privet Drive ever. Plus, it would be interesting to see if and how Harry might grieve over relatives he hates.
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Kasse - Aug 7, 2004 7:14 am (#200 of 1297)
Fawkes I never thought of Petunia, Vernon or Dudley dying but is sounds like a serious possibility. After all the DE's are after muggles too and this is the famous Harry Potter's muggle family. Yes now that I think about it they are most probably marked......
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I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Back to the point of whether Voldy knows that Trewlawney made the prophesy. I am sure the follower who was detected partway through it caught her name in the midst of it. Whomever told Voldy about likely told him who was giving it.
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Hollywand - Jul 12, 2004 8:34 pm (#152 of 1297)
Gryffindor
When the Prophecy globe was smashed, wasn't there a ghost image of Trelawney that emerged and repeated the words, but noone could hear for the noise of the fight? If any of the Death Eaters present saw her image, they would recognize her, but interestingly enough, Harry didn't recognize her image at the time.
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schoff - Jul 12, 2004 11:38 pm (#153 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
SE: These all seem to be character building moments to me.
To me, at the very least, the 13 at dinner, Molly's bogart, and Ron's jokes should raise suspicions. These aren't character building moments.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 13, 2004 12:18 am (#154 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Very true, though that's only three. I've also heard the fact that his middle name is Bilius might point to him dying (Bilius being the uncle who saw the Grim). I honestly don't think he was kidding about the "I don't care if my tea leave say 'die, Ron, die' thing. I think he was being quite serious there, so I'm not sure how to take that one. I (and some other members on the forum) have toyed with the idea that this might be pointing toward something else....
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schoff - Jul 13, 2004 12:30 am (#155 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Ooh! Do tell, SE! I've been away for awhile, and catching up on the character posts has been quite daunting! I'd do anything to find some ideas that would fit, and that mean that Ron isn't a goner!
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schoff - Jul 13, 2004 1:07 am (#156 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Ah! Missed the thirty minute mark! Blast!
I actually do know what you're talking about SE. Just needed my little gray cells to click in...Ron'd really die if it were true though!
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Steve Newton - Jul 13, 2004 6:30 am (#157 of 1297)
Librarian
"I actually do know what you're talking about SE. Just needed my little gray cells to click in...Ron'd really die if it were true though"
OK Schoff and S.E. I don't get it. What am I missing?
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Cuivienen - Jul 13, 2004 11:51 am (#158 of 1297)
When the Prophecy globe was smashed, wasn't there a ghost image of Trelawney that emerged and repeated the words, but noone could hear for the noise of the fight? If any of the Death Eaters present saw her image, they would recognize her, but interestingly enough, Harry didn't recognize her image at the time.
The prophecy was made 16 years ago. Maybe she looked different then. Of course, it was also in the middle of a battle, so he may have thought she looked familiar, but not recognized Trelawney.
Anyway, as far as death predictions go, I'm pretty convinced that these people will die:
Ron, Dumbledore, Lupin, Peter, Moody, the Dursleys, the Grangers (sans Hermione), Neville
colbow - Jul 13, 2004 12:39 pm (#159 of 1297)[/b]
Now I don't know if JKR has said some one will die in book 6 (set me striaght if she did) wonder if she will even have someone die........hmmm, maybe it will just be a all out fight , then really sock it to us in book 7.....just a wild thought, but I still think it will be the Dursleys and I might be jumping on the Trelawney wagon, because if V-Mort thinks he can get the answer from her. Thou, I am not sure how he would get to her if she never leaves the castle. Just some wild ideas.
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total hatred - Jul 13, 2004 1:58 pm (#160 of 1297)
Ron will die to save Hermione.
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schoff - Jul 13, 2004 4:37 pm (#161 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
colbow: The body count is supposed to rise significantly with the next two books.
Steve Newton: Ron's jokes are always right. It's possible he's a seer. It's been discussed quite a bit in the Ron thread.
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Steve Newton - Jul 14, 2004 5:59 am (#162 of 1297)
Librarian
Ah (slaps forehead), if course.
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Plinker - Jul 14, 2004 3:00 pm (#163 of 1297)
May all your Boggarts be easy
I believe that Jo stated in an early interview that there would be deaths,however, not more deaths. Hmmmm..... If you look at the foreshadowing for Ron (especially the chess game in book one), I believe this has already played out. The beating he took in joining the Quiddich team, physical and emotional, along with the chant "Weasly is our king",can be tied to the chess game,in which he (Ron) actually survived in the end, in both events.
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Maarcus Humill - Jul 14, 2004 9:30 pm (#164 of 1297)
I have a theory here. I think that Hermione will be killed in the final battle. That's when Harry realizes that he truly love her and has for a very long time. Using that love he will destroy Voldemort.
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rosi reef - Jul 15, 2004 3:24 am (#165 of 1297)
No, I don't think, this is going to happen, because J.K.Rowling has put a lot of effort into showing us that Hermione and Ron have feelings for each other beyond friendship. I rather assume they will have a nice future together after Hogwarts.
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tracie1976 - Jul 15, 2004 11:10 am (#166 of 1297)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
After re-reading CoS for the millionth time, I think Ginny will die, if not, she will come awfully close to it.
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haymoni - Jul 15, 2004 11:17 am (#167 of 1297)
Oh Tracie - not our Ginny!!
Or is this some sort of attempt to remove Hermione's competition?
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tracie1976 - Jul 15, 2004 11:36 am (#168 of 1297)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
quote haymoni: Or is this some sort of attempt to remove Hermione's competition?
lol no its not an attempt to remove Hermione's competition. Its just that for the first time I got goose bumps reading the scene where Tom tells all and says that Ginny poured her soul into the diary as he poured his soul into Ginny.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 16, 2004 1:36 am (#169 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Oh my, found a quote from JKR that doesn't look good....
Canadian Broadcasting Co, July 2000:
E: You know, characters take on their own lives. They have their own stories. Writers often say, 'I loved that character and the most tragic part of my year last year was having to kill them off.'
JK: Well that's coming.
E: Do you know already who is going to die in the next books?
JK: I know all of them who are going to die, yeah.
E: And some characters we might love and you might love?
JK: I'm definitely killing people I love, yeah. (Waves to fans outside) It's horrible, isn't it? (Laughs) It is actually. I cried during the writing of that one [Book Four] for the first time ever. I cried doing the actual writing of it. It really upset me.
E: It opens with a murder and then there's one at the end, which I won't say who it is. And you cried then?
JK: Yeah.
E: But in the future there's even more...
JK: (Laughs deeply) There's worse coming.
E: Is there? There's even worse coming, isn't there?
JK: I don't know why I'm laughing. It's mild hysteria. (Looks at camera) I've got all these children peering in at me [from outside the train]. If they knew I was talking about slaughtering their favourite characters. (Waves vigorously to fans) Hallo!
E: People love Ron, for example. Kids think you're going to knock off Ron because he's the best friend.
JK: Kids do, exactly, because they're sharp and they've seen so many films where the hero's best friend gets it. So they think I'm going to make it personal by killing Ron. But maybe that's a double bluff... (Laughs)
E: Now that you know they expect it, do you give it to them?
JK: No, I decided...It's not that I sat down with a list and decided to write, 'You're going, you're going, you're going.' There are reasons for the deaths in each case, in terms of the story. So that's why I'm doing it.
Did you notice the comment about favorite characters?!
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schoff - Jul 16, 2004 11:09 am (#170 of 1297)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Isn't Lupin one of her favorite characters? Hagrid too?
I've already marked Hagrid for Death. I think he'd be a good ghost. Lupin I always figured for a survivor.
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spug - Jul 16, 2004 11:42 am (#171 of 1297)
"Did you notice the comment about favorite characters?!"
Yes, well, I'm hoping she doesn't mean favorite favorite characters. I mean, Sirius was one of my favorite characters. I hope she doesn't kill off any more important a character that he was. To be honest, I wouldn't be too devastated if Hagrid died, and like schoff, I have always seen Lupin as a survivor. Dumbledore I also see dying, but I like the theory of him going through the veil voluntarily.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 16, 2004 4:28 pm (#172 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Er, do you mean him going through the veil figuratively or literally?
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Gemini12602 - Jul 16, 2004 5:22 pm (#173 of 1297)
Yeah... wouldnt Dumbledore going voluntarily into the veil be suicide?
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haymoni - Jul 16, 2004 6:00 pm (#174 of 1297)
If someone held on to you really tight, could you push the Veil aside and look at what is behind it?
Maybe Dumbledore can tell Harry about the purpose of the room. I still think it was an old execution chamber.
I've been wondering why we were introduced to Hestia Jones and some of the others - maybe they will be some of the first to die.
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 6:21 pm (#175 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't think Dumbledore walking through the Veil would be suicide. I can see the scene in my head now, like LOTR Gandalf leaving for the Undying Lands.
I think some of the Order members were introduced to die! I know it sounds terrible but it would be just a bit bland if someone unknown died rather than having someone who Harry has met or in HbP, might get to know more.
If someone held on to you really tight, could you push the Veil aside and look at what is behind it?-Haymoni
I don't know about that one. I think someone in the DOM may have tried it and not succeeded.
As much as I think Dumbly will die, I'll miss him!
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Hollywand - Jul 18, 2004 10:02 am (#176 of 1297)
Gryffindor
The centaur statue taking the Avada Kedavra curse on behalf of Dumbledore could be a harbinger of Firenze's death. And perhaps, Snape will "Sever the Snake" rather than "Serve the Snake" but it will cost him his life.
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tracie1976 - Jul 21, 2004 4:50 am (#177 of 1297)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
You guys are going to hate me but I've got a few more names to add to my growing list of people who are going to die lol.
Molly Weasley: there was 13 dining at the table when she got up and got dessert on Harry's first night at Grimmauld Place and Mundungus Fletcher: he was smoking a black pipe which had green smoke billowing out of it and green has to do with being gangerous (I posted it somewhere associated with Ron on his thread but can't find it).
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Neville Longbottom - Jul 21, 2004 10:25 am (#178 of 1297)
I am sure Mundungus will survive. The characters I dislike normally survive, and my favourites are killed off. From that point of view, Mundungus will be absolutely save.
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total hatred - Jul 21, 2004 3:16 pm (#179 of 1297)
Mudungus is far too sneaky to die
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 22, 2004 3:19 am (#180 of 1297)
Please may Sybil Trelawny die. No, she's too funny. Let's keep her. But as for Umbridge. I believe she was saved from the centaurs for a much worse fate.
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Cuivienen - Jul 22, 2004 7:42 pm (#181 of 1297)
Interesting note, tracie, but I think that might have been unintentional on the part of JKR. After all, there would some sort of comment about "all thirteen of them sitting down" or something if she wanted us to connect it with the scene in PoA.
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Steve Newton - Jul 23, 2004 6:48 am (#182 of 1297)
Librarian
Cuivienen,
In POA there are 13, by my count, at the Christmas dinner. JKR doesn't tell you this you have to count. Sirius is the first one to get up.
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Crookshanks - Jul 23, 2004 6:55 am (#183 of 1297)
I really dunno why some people think DD will walk thru the veil. DD knows the prophecy all right.Harry's the one who has to kill Voldemort. But, this doesn't mean he's going to die just to let Harry take on Voldemort single-handedly. DD is going to extend utmost support to Harry before he perishes, which should be at the final battle & not by merely walking thru the veil. He's going to give stiff resistance to the Dark side as long as possible. The longer it is, the better it is for Harry. He can prepare better. And what makes people think that we're going to DoM again ? For the brains ? Yeah possible !! Not otherwise.
So, DD is going to die trying to save Harry & the WW from Voldemort & not just walking thru a veil...... He'll die a royal death if he ever does....
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Crookshanks - Jul 23, 2004 7:42 am (#184 of 1297)
Wanted to add some more. Either Ron or Hermione will die,methinks.
We know that if Harry's gotta kill Voldie, it's going to be using the power 'the dark lord knows not'.DD told Harry that his ability to feel pain was his greatest strength (OoP,The Lost Prophecy). And then Voldie told Harry that Lily had used ancient magic with which he couldn't touch Harry even after Lily was dead, the magic that saved him from Quirrel as well. But,interestingly enough, Voldie touched Harry in GoF & nothing happened.Does this mean that the ancient magic has worn out ?
For Harry to use his 'best weapon' against Voldie, he's got to feel the strongest form of love.Whom does he love most in the world (apart from his parents & Sirius)? Ron first, then Hermione ('platonic' friendship albeit). He can strengthen his strength only if Ron sacrifices himself. The true value of love can be experienced only when it is absent. So, I guess it's gonna be like Ron dies & Harry faces Voldie full of emotions, may be a river of tears & then does Voldie in. An AK is then useless.Why Ron ? Because he's the one Harry misses most (GoF-Task2 & many ither situations).
The other possibility is that Harry begins to place Hermione above Ron ,may be because he realises how much he's unknowingly loved her & then Hermione takes the beating.This seems unlikely, because of the Chess Board equation & because of various anti-H/Hr statements.
Also,I read this somewhere - the Knight(Ron) can only 'hop' across the board in steps of 3.But the Bishop(Harry) & Rook(Hermione) can cover almost the entire board all by themselves are their combination is next most powerful to the Queen, the most powerful pawn on the board.
And as per my experience with the game, there is always a way out of a stalemate with 2 pawns if one of them is a Knight, not always quite the same with a bishop & a rook (i won one such 30 minutes ago & thought of putting it here). This makes me believe that 2 of them will matter in the final countdown - Harry & Hermione - & Harry will be the one to 'stalemate' the king as in the PS/SS Chessgame, while Hermione holds the other end tight.May be Neville has an important role too,( as the other bishop). For we know, these 3 bore most of the brunt of the DEs at DoM & they showed what they were really capable of.
Disagreements welcome....
BTW, are there statements of JKR's where she's denied the death from amongst the trio ? If so, throw this theory into the trash can.
Other certain deaths IMO include DD,McG,Snape,Moody & a lot of the bad guys.Not very sure about the other Weasleys,Hagrid & Lupin.As someone pointed out,the Grangers are a high possibility too & that would make Hermione 'respect & regard' death a little more & make her the 'female Harry'.It'll be a touching scene if that ever happens. And may be finally, if Harry survives (with a soul),which I'm really apprehensive of,Molly would adopt Harry & Hermione.......
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Amilia Smith - Jul 23, 2004 2:32 pm (#185 of 1297)
I have read discussions elsewhere on the forum giving Ron's Unicorn hair wand as a foreshadowing of his death. (The unicorns that die in SS, Cedric's wand also contained a unicorn hair, etc.)
Taking this speculation a step further . . .
Both Voldemort and Harry have phoenix tail feathers as the cores of their wands. We have seen Voldemort die (sort of) and be reborn. Could Harry possibly die but find a way to be reborn?
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Cuivienen - Jul 23, 2004 8:02 pm (#186 of 1297)
Steve - But she does tell us. Trelawney says it explicitly.
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Hollywand - Jul 23, 2004 9:18 pm (#187 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Part of the deaths will be historical deaths: descriptions of events leading to James' and Lilly's deaths. Even though these deaths won't be in Harry's present time, they will be painful to discover. Perhaps other historical deaths of Phoenix Members as well. The suffering of the Longbottoms recounted.
Firenze appearing in Sibyll's position tells me that Sibyll is vulnerable.
Firenze as well because the centaur statue took a hit for Dumbledore in the Order.
The Dursleys will die; this gives Rowling an opportunity to explore feelings around the deaths of someone that the protaganist has ambivalent feelings about.
I am thinking that Lucius Malfoy and Narcissa Malfoy will die at the hands of Voldemort, and Draco will develop a compassion for Harry and Neville's suffering as a result.
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Gemini12602 - Jul 24, 2004 12:13 am (#188 of 1297)
Cuivienen - Jul 23, 2004 8:02 pm (#186 of 187) Steve - But she does tell us. Trelawney says it explicitly.
Please do explain lol.
EDIT: Wait... was this in response to dinner in POA, not the one where people said Mrs Weasley was the first to leave from 13 at another point?
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Steve Newton - Jul 24, 2004 6:30 am (#189 of 1297)
Librarian
The POA one. I may hve the wrong book. the OOTP Christmas dinner. I don't recall any explicit mention of 13.
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Steve Newton - Jul 24, 2004 12:19 pm (#190 of 1297)
Librarian
So much for trying to make points by relying on my memory. I finally went back to the OOTP book. It is not Christmas dinner with 13 people. I think that it is Harry's first dinner at 12 Grimmauld Place. Chapter 6 in the book. Present at the meal are Harry, Ron, Hermione, Arthur, Molly, Ginny, Fred, George, Bill, Lupin, Sirius, Mundungus, and Tonks. 13 by my count. JKR does not point this out in the text. The first one to rise from the table is Sirius. I guess that I am not giving anything away when I say that things don't seem to turn out to well for him by the end of the book.
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Laurelin - Jul 26, 2004 12:27 am (#191 of 1297)
Sorry, I have nothing new to add to this discussion, but on another MB we are also currently discussing possible deaths and somebody has brought up that JKR has said at one point that one of the Weasleys will die... now... I won't believe she's said something that specific until I read the interview/chat/whatever on my comp-screen... Do any of you here remember that she has indeed said s.th. like that and can tell me where I can find the exact quote (if it exists)? Another thing: Is there somewhere a list in the Lexicon with clues to possible deaths?
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Steve Newton - Jul 26, 2004 9:48 am (#192 of 1297)
Librarian
T. Brightwater says in the Nymphadora Tonks forum: "There is a St. Nymphodora on the Eastern calendar, feast day September 10. She was a virgin martyr of the early fourth century. She and her two sisters were holy women and healers, and all were torured to death."
This sounds like bad news for Tonks.
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Hollywand - Jul 26, 2004 5:45 pm (#193 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Laurelin, you can research the threads of the Lexicon as you scroll down this page for that topic of "Weasley" and "Death". I have never heard that convincingly confirmed, that Jo said one of the Weasleys die, and I think it's just a rumour that she said that incorporated as fact. I hope that helps some. Check out the jkr chat transcript above. Don't you think that question (which Weasley) would have been put to her repeatedly since they are such developed characters in the story?
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Steve Newton - Aug 4, 2004 12:31 pm (#194 of 1297)
Librarian
I was just reading the Longbottoms forum. The point has been made that Alice seems to be doing much better than Frank. Since Frank's wand is broken in OOTP I think that Frank is not going to be with us much longer.
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James T. Kirk - Aug 4, 2004 2:26 pm (#195 of 1297)
Captain USS Enterprise NCC 1701-A
If anyone is going to die in book six or seven I personally think it'll be Snape, but if he does die I hope it's a heroes death trying to save Harry and company....now wouldn't THAT be something SNAPE DYING TO SAVE HARRY?
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T Brightwater - Aug 4, 2004 3:01 pm (#196 of 1297)
I've thought of that one too, Captain. I wonder what kind of magical protection it would confer on Harry if someone who hates him gives his life for him?
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Ann - Aug 5, 2004 8:08 am (#197 of 1297)
Snape dying to save Harry would have interesting repercussions, but even more interesting, I think, would be Neville dying to save Snape (after reviving his parents and taking care of Bellatrix, of course). Wouldn't that make Snape feel bad!
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Kasse - Aug 6, 2004 6:23 am (#198 of 1297)
Neville dieing to save Snape, Ann that would be something! I would hate to see Neville go though, I would hate to see Snape go too.
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 6, 2004 1:47 pm (#199 of 1297)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
How about Petunia or Vernon or Dudley dying? Dudley's already had a close shave with Death Eaters.
I dislike the Dursleys but don't necessarily want them to die (OK maybe Vernon, he's the worst IMO). But I could see such a scenario contributing to Harry's shortest stay at Privet Drive ever. Plus, it would be interesting to see if and how Harry might grieve over relatives he hates.
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Kasse - Aug 7, 2004 7:14 am (#200 of 1297)
Fawkes I never thought of Petunia, Vernon or Dudley dying but is sounds like a serious possibility. After all the DE's are after muggles too and this is the famous Harry Potter's muggle family. Yes now that I think about it they are most probably marked......
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 201 to 250)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 10:41 am
Archangel - Aug 9, 2004 4:46 am (#201 of 1297)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
This is a very crazy idea so please forgive me if it sounds ludicrous -- what if in these books we find out that one of the major characters is already dead and we're sort of getting a glimpse of what his or her life was? I mean people do often say that when they have a near-death experience, their lives flash before their eyes...
And as to who this person might be? My guess is Dumbledore. I know, I know, sounds too bit of The Sixth Sense, but wouldn't it be cool though if the book turned out this way? Looking forward to your responses.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 9, 2004 9:07 am (#202 of 1297)
No day but Today
I don't understand Archangel, are you saying that someone is a ghost, but no body knows they are?
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Siki - Aug 9, 2004 4:16 pm (#203 of 1297)
Mabye if the Death Eaters killed off Uncle Vernon, Harry would hear a little more about his family. You always hear how Uncle Vernon dosen't want to hear a mention of magic in his household. But maybe if he was gone Aunt Petunia might feel a little bit more free to tell Harry something about his family.
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Annika - Aug 9, 2004 6:38 pm (#204 of 1297)
I had an idea, but I need some help on this. I was reading PS/SS and a ran across a phrase that I had noticed before, not only in PS/SS, but in the other books as well. "You will meet a sticky end, just like your parents" (paraphrased)I had always thought this phrase, due to the fact that it has been repeated several times, fortold doom for Harry, but now I am not so sure.
I can not remember who said this line in each of the books, but I know that it has appeared in more than one. Vernon says it in PS/SS, Lucius (maybe only in the movie, son is sleeping and I can't get the rest of the books out of his room to verify) in CoS. I remember the line said in one or more of the last three books, but I do not remember which books or by whom.
My theory is that the people who have said this phrase to Harry may die in the next two books. Like I said, I do not have my books on hand so I cannot research this further to figure out when the line is said (or if it is said) in the other three books. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks, Annika
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MrsGump - Aug 9, 2004 6:55 pm (#205 of 1297)
I'm re-reading OotP now, and noticed how many times Sirius says something "grimly" or looks "grim". I thought, "oh, how did I miss this" (OK, that and the "entering the house of a dying man" thing)
But then I noticed that Hermione is described the same way quite a few times. I did notice Molly and McGonagall spoke grimly once or twice. Now, I'm tempted to start re-reading and tally them up. Not sure if they were meant just to distract us until the real death or if they mean something.
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Archangel - Aug 9, 2004 7:53 pm (#206 of 1297)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Matilda Jones --
"I don't understand Archangel, are you saying that someone is a ghost, but no body knows they are?"
Well not necessarily a ghost but someone is dead. I mean, I do realize that if you're a ghost in HP, people should see you and you'd know that you're a ghost. I was just thinking that the person came back as something else or is maybe near-death and we're seeing flashes of his life...
OK... I just confused myself. It's very easy to do so at this time. ;D I apologize if this doesn't make sense.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 10, 2004 4:57 pm (#207 of 1297)
No day but Today
Ok thats a little clearer. I don't know if thats possible though.
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Diomedes - Aug 11, 2004 8:20 am (#208 of 1297)
"You will bow to me" - Stewie, Age 1
I agree with Archangel.......It IS a crazy idea. Lol. I cant see a ghost being able to do magic. Peeves can have an effect on the physical world, but he cant do magic. And if peeves could do magic im convinced he would. god, peeves with magic, the worst possible combination. The flashback thing is a thought, but it would have to be harrys flashback, since its all written from his point of view.
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ex-FAHgeek - Aug 11, 2004 3:53 pm (#209 of 1297)
Edited by Aug 11, 2004 3:54 pm
---quote--- The flashback thing is a thought, but it would have to be harrys flashback, since its all written from his point of view. ---end quote---
Or possibly Harry's flashback being experienced by Voldemort through their connection... that could be interesting.
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Czarina II - Aug 11, 2004 11:09 pm (#210 of 1297)
Euwgh! (shudders)
I think the series will end like it began, in a sort of narration similar to the very first chapter. No strange dead people.
Maybe this discussion ought to be moved to the Predictions thread?
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Diomedes - Aug 12, 2004 2:42 am (#211 of 1297)
"You will bow to me" - Stewie, Age 1
I think it should just be cut down in its prime. else we could end up with harrys flashbacks, described by voldie thru the connection, remembered by Wormtail, told by luna....somehow. anyway u get my point
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Archangel - Aug 14, 2004 9:11 pm (#212 of 1297)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Another character who I think will die in the succeeding books would be McGonagall. Probably in a duel with Bellatrix LeStrange.
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Chris. - Aug 14, 2004 11:58 pm (#213 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Noooooooooooooooo, Archangel! Minerva has to live. She was so great in OP. We need more of that quick wit.
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Archangel - Aug 15, 2004 12:13 am (#214 of 1297)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
I agree Prongs, the scenes with McGonagall and Umbridge ("Would you like a cough drop?") are one of the best for me. However, another sneaky Stupefy could be too much for her to handle given the damage inflicted by the last attack.
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total hatred - Aug 15, 2004 9:08 pm (#215 of 1297)
What if no one ever has to die. At this rate, one more death in the good side will force Harry to go nuts. I mean that Harry will more angry, more pissed off and more impulsive. We don't him to be that rabid.
I suggest that someone close to him will be critically injured. Killing someone in the book is too boring. Cast Avada Kedabra and the target is dead. I prefer some mushy drama to make dying and suffering more interesting. For example Hermione will get critically injured and goes to coma. Look at how interesting will it be. We will be intersted in the reaction of the people around her.
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Leila 2X4B - Aug 15, 2004 9:44 pm (#216 of 1297)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Ticked off is such a nicer and more proper way to put it Total. It would save the mods time not having to edit you.
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 2:06 am (#217 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Time for a grim prediction:
I used to believe that all trio members would survive, but JKR constant talk about how terrible the last books are going to makes me wonder if I was wrong. Perhaps Harry is going to loose more people close to him?
In GoF he lost Cederic, a distant friend. In OotP he lost Sirius, a very dear, but nevertheless somewhat distant father substitute.
What could he loose to be get even more miserable? A very close friend?
Will Ron or Hermione be knocked out in HBF? If this should be the case, I expect Ron to be the one in greatest danger. It will be horrible for Harry, just as JKR tells us.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 16, 2004 10:07 am (#218 of 1297)
No day but Today
I am not listening,The One. I refuse to accept Ron as a candidate for death.
Total Hatred, interesting point. I do think that someone will die though, but maybe someone who Harry doesn't know is important untill aftre they go.
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 10:12 am (#219 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Let us say Hermione then... No refuses to accept that...
It is just that JKR stresses over and over again how horrible things are going to be. :-(
Other suggestions about how making things worse then they already are?
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Kasse - Aug 16, 2004 11:58 am (#220 of 1297)
I like Matilda refuse to believe Ron as a candidate for death. Yes there are signs, I am not blind but we have been wrong before and I am praying we are wrong again.
Unlike Ron I there are no signs pointing to Hermione's death but then again that does not mean anything - in OOP she almost got hit with and AK curse, Remember? I hope she does not die either that would be awful.....
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Czarina II - Aug 16, 2004 8:50 pm (#221 of 1297)
I don't think either Ron or Hermione will die in the books. The only exception to this that I foresee is an epilogue stating that they died at the ripe old ages of 143 or something. Harry has to face Voldemort alone, but he is doing this now in GoF and OoP without the help of his two best friends and they are very much alive. In fact, Harry has been facing Voldemort since PS without their help. (I mean in the final showdown, of course.)
I would further like to say that I don't think any of Harry's inner circle will die.
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Solitaire - Aug 16, 2004 9:46 pm (#222 of 1297)
I hope you are correct, Czarina ... but in a war, there are casualties. After some of the newest hints and clues, I have a sick feeling many of those closest to Harry will die. I hope I am wrong.
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Czarina II - Aug 17, 2004 8:21 am (#223 of 1297)
"In a war, there are casualties." -- Solitaire
Well said, but since (in her own words) JKR has about 200 characters now, I think there are plenty of "spares" to kill off without going after the DoM Six. (Hmm...like that name.) Lupin might be killed, but his status as the Last Marauder might prevent such an outcome. I'm pretty sure Wormtail will die, so that only leaves Moony. [sniff] Lupin would be a lonely werewolf again.
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Kasse - Aug 17, 2004 8:33 am (#224 of 1297)
Yes I agree that JK has a lot of spares that she could kill off without making us burst into tears but then again, we would not really feel the emotion if say Fletcher Mundungus died as opposed to Lupin. I have a feeling that the casualties to come are going to get us (the readers) where it hurts the most.
I constantly pray that I am wrong........
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Solitaire - Aug 17, 2004 3:12 pm (#225 of 1297)
I do NOT want Remus to die. I like him the best of all the Marauders, even James. I sure hope JKR doesn't take him, too.
I agree that she has plenty of more "peripheral" characters to kill off, but the fact that they ARE peripheral makes me think they will not really be in the thick of battle. I hope she doesn't strip Harry of everyone he has loved by the end of things. It would just be too sorry a way to end the series, IMO.
I don't expect an ending that is all tied up in a big red bow--meaning I expect some major characters we love (including some of the kids and key adults) are going to die--but leaving the characters and readers to the mercy of a world without hope for any happiness or redemption would be pretty rotten. Just my opinion ...
Solitaire
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KTO - Aug 17, 2004 5:37 pm (#226 of 1297)
I believe that it is important to remember these are CHILDREN's books, and while JKR has arranged for Harry to suffer the death of loved ones I do not believe that she will take Ron or Hermoine from Harry, they are a part of him. I think that Dumbledore will go, I believe it will be freely and in order to advance the defeat of LV and the DE's. It is my hope that one of the DE's will die in a way that offers resurrection and redemption, my expectation is this will be wormtail. I also believe that there are things worse then death and maybe by the time it is all over LV will understand this and will welcome death, as JKR recently stated that LV NEVER felt love, if he had he would not be what he is, what a heartbreaking reality for anyone. I believe that JKR believes in the power of love, that it is the one thing that heals all hurts and can redeem even the most dire of existences, she may surprise us all and wrap things up in a way, that the magical world becomes the best of all that can be and something that we all can inspire too, KT
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 17, 2004 6:26 pm (#227 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Well said KT, bravo! Sometimes we can get involved in a concept (or thread) and get bogged down and not see the big picture.
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Mare - Aug 18, 2004 4:47 am (#228 of 1297)
I believe that it is important to remember these are CHILDREN's books
:sigh:
No they are not. They are being published as childrens books, but the story is written as just that: a story. Not ment for just children or adults, but just ment to be told. The story is fit for children, not particularly ment for children.
It is a story about a little boy growing up. We are going to see Harry when in the last book he has turned seventeen. He will be an adult then, and he will deal with adult business.
The books are about love. Yes, they are (amongst several subjects). And sometimes we lose the people we love the most, and no matter how hard we want to change it or how much we love them, they go anyway. Sometimes putting in the energy can make all the difference and sometimes the race is lost. That is the way the world works. Harry's world as well.
I don't hope that Ron or Hermione dies. I don't want any-one to die, not the Creeveys, not McGonnagall, Not Hannah Abbott and not Remus Lupin.
Do I think we will lose people, possibly even close friends? I think it is possible, partly because the books are about love, and allthough love is the strongest of all powers, it sometimes isn't enough.
Harry lives in a magical world, he doesn't live in a fairytale. Part of what attracts me to these books is how "real" they are: The magical world doesn't change the fact that there are emotions and limitations that muggle and wizard alike can't change or conquer.
C'est la vie...
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Steve Newton - Aug 18, 2004 6:22 am (#229 of 1297)
Librarian
On various threads it is suggested that the Longbottoms may get better. What bothers me about this is that when Bode started to bet better he was murdered. I think that the same may happen to the Longbottoms. Sort of the last stroke by the dard wizards at St. Mungos. I think they will leave some sort of message for Neville.
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KTO - Aug 18, 2004 7:08 am (#230 of 1297)
Love is enough, it has the power to save us from ourselves, the power to save others and the power to heal. It is my opinion that JKR is very aware that these books are read by children and the movies are seen by children, she will continue to do what she can to protect them and what I hope is their faith in the future. With this said (and in order to stick with the thread) I stick to my opinion that Ron and Hermoine survive, the good guys win and these books continued to be read and enjoyed for generations for the story and the sense of renewed hope that one will feel at the final conclusion. KT
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Archangel - Aug 18, 2004 8:16 am (#231 of 1297)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Oooh nice Steve Newton! Just to put a twist on that... What if they were hoping that such act would devastate Neville and the reverse actually happened? It pushes Neville to greater heights and causes him to tap into powers he never thought he had. I mean look at his vast improvement after the Azkaban 10 escaped!
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Star Crossed - Aug 18, 2004 12:49 pm (#232 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Archangel, Azkaban 10 sounds like a really bad band group. Thanks for the image.
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Steve Newton - Aug 18, 2004 1:07 pm (#233 of 1297)
Librarian
"Azkaban 10"
I think that I just had a flachback to the 60s.
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timrew - Aug 18, 2004 1:46 pm (#234 of 1297)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Or if Draco and his mates joined the Death Eaters, would they be known as 'The Nibbling Nine'?
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Casey - Aug 19, 2004 6:51 am (#235 of 1297)
The more I re-read the series, the more I think Dumbledore will die.
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Hermy-own - Aug 20, 2004 4:44 pm (#236 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Yes, Casey, I also have a suspicion DD may die in book 6/7. Not that I want him to die!
I believe the final battle will come down to Harry vs. LV. Would HP's success be more impressive/significant if achieved in DD's absence?
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 20, 2004 6:35 pm (#237 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Ok, last two opinons, Dumbledore is going to die in book 6 or 7.
My take, Dumbledore can't die. Dumbledore is orchrsating this waltz, in SS, did not Harry fight, and live to fight another day? In, COS, same thing, GOF, same thing. In my opinon, Harry has done well on his own. OooP showed Harry not yet ready to take on Moldie Voldie with what he knows up to this point by himself yet. I am in the camp, he learns not just from Dumbledore, but from all those around him.
Therefore, I see it as neither necessary Dumbledore dies, nor probable that he dies.
He either gets his "socks", or like Harry had hard time envisioning, laying on beach with sunscreen on his crooked nose....
Just my opinion, which I regard highly :-)
For my alchemy buddies, he will "transcend", but not die.
Edit: Ut oh, this might need to go to predictions thread?
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TheQuibbler - Aug 20, 2004 6:39 pm (#238 of 1297)
I don't know how I could stand reading a Dumbledore death scene in the books...
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 20, 2004 6:44 pm (#239 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
I would have to close the book...for how long, maybe a long, long time....
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total hatred - Aug 21, 2004 5:01 am (#240 of 1297)
I don't think Dumbledore will die. If he is to die, I believe he will still be revived. Remember that his patronus is a phoenix and phoenix is a symbol of rebirth.
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Quidam - Aug 21, 2004 7:17 am (#241 of 1297)
I think that Neville could die. Here are a few examples of what happens to Neville when he tries to stand up to other people (as you can see the results aren't good)
In PS. Neville tries to take on Crabbe and Goyle and is knocked out.
Later he tries to stop HRH sneaking out to get the Philosophers Stone and Hermione puts him under the full body bind.
In OOTP when Ron, Ginny and Luna are ambushed by the Inquisitorial Squad, Neville tries to stop Warrington from taking Ginny. So Warrington grabs Neville as well. At the Ministry, Neville follows Harry into the veil room and Bellatrix uses the Cruciatus curse on him.
I'm guessing that Neville will die in battle. He may even try to take on Voldemort.
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Hermy-own - Aug 21, 2004 7:50 am (#242 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
TwinklingBlueEyes - yes sorry, Harry has proved beyond doubt he can manage without DD's protection.
Over the years, DD vs. LV has been a major rivalry but more recently, the HP vs. LV rivalry has developed to similar proportions. The prophecy states that HP and LV will have to conclude this rivalry - one will have to kill the other.
This makes me ask, 'will the DD/LV rivalry be concluded?' If so, how and when? That's why I have a suspicion (as tenuous as it may be) that LV may defeat DD. Fingers crossed that I'm wrong - a DD death would be very hard to read. I guess it upto JKR...
Someone please get Sybill Trelawny on this thread - things would be much easier!
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Cuivienen - Aug 21, 2004 8:46 am (#243 of 1297)
I also think Dumbledore will die, but not until the climactic end scene in Book Seven. Obviously, Dumbledore cannot die any earlier because he is a key part of orchestrating the final battle, but I think it would both inspire Harry towards a final victory and tie up a loose end if Dumbledore died near the end of Book Seven.
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The One - Aug 21, 2004 8:52 am (#244 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Someone please get Sybill Trelawny on this thread - things would be much easier!
Yes: Everybody will die!
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 21, 2004 9:01 am (#245 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"Yes: Everybody will die!"
At least three times in one week! I'll be chuckling all the way to St Mungo's....
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Hermy-own - Aug 21, 2004 1:13 pm (#246 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Haha!! Everyone will die, probably even JKR herself!
OK, bad idea. How about her great-great-grandmother, Cassandra?
EDIT: That one is a bad idea too! (for obvious reasons)
Looks like Lavender and Parvati are our only hope.
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The One - Aug 21, 2004 1:18 pm (#247 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Firenze? "Mars is bright tonight.."
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Hermy-own - Aug 21, 2004 2:24 pm (#248 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Alas, all hope is not lost...
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Some Guy - Aug 21, 2004 10:56 pm (#249 of 1297)
I don't think Harry will survive. Lord Voldemort failed to kill Harry as a child, and in return, Harry failed to kill Voldemort when his curse rebounded. I have a feeling Harry will have to sacrifice himself in order to kill Voldemort and fulfill the prophecy (for neither can live while the other survives). After all, sacrifice is the ultimate form of bravery.
But then again it seems like JKR is setting Voldemort up for something worse then death, so we shall see !
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 22, 2004 10:11 am (#250 of 1297)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
SG, that last point is excellent: over and over again in the encounters between DD and LV, DD attempts to impress on LV that there are many things worse than death. LV finally realising that could be integral to the final plotline.
OK, now iron my hands for me, but I would not be too upset by DD's death. He gets put out of the foreground of the plot in CoS and OotP, and everyone else finds it more difficult to cope because DD isn't around. But I've always seen him as more of a behind the scenes mover than as someone to care deeply about on any personal level. He maintains a certain distance from Harry (through whose eyes we see the story) even at the end of OotP when he's admitting his mistakes and how he cares for Harry's happiness. Everything DD does is a part of some greater game, and that puts him at a distance from Harry and others, no matter how great/cool/powerful/caring he is as a person.
Would Harry be upset if DD dies? Absolutely. But there are lots of other people he cares about more: Hermione, Hagrid, the Weasleys (not just Ron), Lupin, and probably Neville and Cho. I have to agree with others above though, that JKR can only put Harry through so much loss before he completely cracks up. If he doesn't...well, I'd have a harder time suspending disbelief, really.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
This is a very crazy idea so please forgive me if it sounds ludicrous -- what if in these books we find out that one of the major characters is already dead and we're sort of getting a glimpse of what his or her life was? I mean people do often say that when they have a near-death experience, their lives flash before their eyes...
And as to who this person might be? My guess is Dumbledore. I know, I know, sounds too bit of The Sixth Sense, but wouldn't it be cool though if the book turned out this way? Looking forward to your responses.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 9, 2004 9:07 am (#202 of 1297)
No day but Today
I don't understand Archangel, are you saying that someone is a ghost, but no body knows they are?
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Siki - Aug 9, 2004 4:16 pm (#203 of 1297)
Mabye if the Death Eaters killed off Uncle Vernon, Harry would hear a little more about his family. You always hear how Uncle Vernon dosen't want to hear a mention of magic in his household. But maybe if he was gone Aunt Petunia might feel a little bit more free to tell Harry something about his family.
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Annika - Aug 9, 2004 6:38 pm (#204 of 1297)
I had an idea, but I need some help on this. I was reading PS/SS and a ran across a phrase that I had noticed before, not only in PS/SS, but in the other books as well. "You will meet a sticky end, just like your parents" (paraphrased)I had always thought this phrase, due to the fact that it has been repeated several times, fortold doom for Harry, but now I am not so sure.
I can not remember who said this line in each of the books, but I know that it has appeared in more than one. Vernon says it in PS/SS, Lucius (maybe only in the movie, son is sleeping and I can't get the rest of the books out of his room to verify) in CoS. I remember the line said in one or more of the last three books, but I do not remember which books or by whom.
My theory is that the people who have said this phrase to Harry may die in the next two books. Like I said, I do not have my books on hand so I cannot research this further to figure out when the line is said (or if it is said) in the other three books. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks, Annika
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MrsGump - Aug 9, 2004 6:55 pm (#205 of 1297)
I'm re-reading OotP now, and noticed how many times Sirius says something "grimly" or looks "grim". I thought, "oh, how did I miss this" (OK, that and the "entering the house of a dying man" thing)
But then I noticed that Hermione is described the same way quite a few times. I did notice Molly and McGonagall spoke grimly once or twice. Now, I'm tempted to start re-reading and tally them up. Not sure if they were meant just to distract us until the real death or if they mean something.
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Archangel - Aug 9, 2004 7:53 pm (#206 of 1297)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Matilda Jones --
"I don't understand Archangel, are you saying that someone is a ghost, but no body knows they are?"
Well not necessarily a ghost but someone is dead. I mean, I do realize that if you're a ghost in HP, people should see you and you'd know that you're a ghost. I was just thinking that the person came back as something else or is maybe near-death and we're seeing flashes of his life...
OK... I just confused myself. It's very easy to do so at this time. ;D I apologize if this doesn't make sense.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 10, 2004 4:57 pm (#207 of 1297)
No day but Today
Ok thats a little clearer. I don't know if thats possible though.
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Diomedes - Aug 11, 2004 8:20 am (#208 of 1297)
"You will bow to me" - Stewie, Age 1
I agree with Archangel.......It IS a crazy idea. Lol. I cant see a ghost being able to do magic. Peeves can have an effect on the physical world, but he cant do magic. And if peeves could do magic im convinced he would. god, peeves with magic, the worst possible combination. The flashback thing is a thought, but it would have to be harrys flashback, since its all written from his point of view.
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ex-FAHgeek - Aug 11, 2004 3:53 pm (#209 of 1297)
Edited by Aug 11, 2004 3:54 pm
---quote--- The flashback thing is a thought, but it would have to be harrys flashback, since its all written from his point of view. ---end quote---
Or possibly Harry's flashback being experienced by Voldemort through their connection... that could be interesting.
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Czarina II - Aug 11, 2004 11:09 pm (#210 of 1297)
Euwgh! (shudders)
I think the series will end like it began, in a sort of narration similar to the very first chapter. No strange dead people.
Maybe this discussion ought to be moved to the Predictions thread?
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Diomedes - Aug 12, 2004 2:42 am (#211 of 1297)
"You will bow to me" - Stewie, Age 1
I think it should just be cut down in its prime. else we could end up with harrys flashbacks, described by voldie thru the connection, remembered by Wormtail, told by luna....somehow. anyway u get my point
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Archangel - Aug 14, 2004 9:11 pm (#212 of 1297)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Another character who I think will die in the succeeding books would be McGonagall. Probably in a duel with Bellatrix LeStrange.
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Chris. - Aug 14, 2004 11:58 pm (#213 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Noooooooooooooooo, Archangel! Minerva has to live. She was so great in OP. We need more of that quick wit.
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Archangel - Aug 15, 2004 12:13 am (#214 of 1297)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
I agree Prongs, the scenes with McGonagall and Umbridge ("Would you like a cough drop?") are one of the best for me. However, another sneaky Stupefy could be too much for her to handle given the damage inflicted by the last attack.
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total hatred - Aug 15, 2004 9:08 pm (#215 of 1297)
What if no one ever has to die. At this rate, one more death in the good side will force Harry to go nuts. I mean that Harry will more angry, more pissed off and more impulsive. We don't him to be that rabid.
I suggest that someone close to him will be critically injured. Killing someone in the book is too boring. Cast Avada Kedabra and the target is dead. I prefer some mushy drama to make dying and suffering more interesting. For example Hermione will get critically injured and goes to coma. Look at how interesting will it be. We will be intersted in the reaction of the people around her.
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Leila 2X4B - Aug 15, 2004 9:44 pm (#216 of 1297)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Ticked off is such a nicer and more proper way to put it Total. It would save the mods time not having to edit you.
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 2:06 am (#217 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Time for a grim prediction:
I used to believe that all trio members would survive, but JKR constant talk about how terrible the last books are going to makes me wonder if I was wrong. Perhaps Harry is going to loose more people close to him?
In GoF he lost Cederic, a distant friend. In OotP he lost Sirius, a very dear, but nevertheless somewhat distant father substitute.
What could he loose to be get even more miserable? A very close friend?
Will Ron or Hermione be knocked out in HBF? If this should be the case, I expect Ron to be the one in greatest danger. It will be horrible for Harry, just as JKR tells us.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 16, 2004 10:07 am (#218 of 1297)
No day but Today
I am not listening,The One. I refuse to accept Ron as a candidate for death.
Total Hatred, interesting point. I do think that someone will die though, but maybe someone who Harry doesn't know is important untill aftre they go.
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 10:12 am (#219 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Let us say Hermione then... No refuses to accept that...
It is just that JKR stresses over and over again how horrible things are going to be. :-(
Other suggestions about how making things worse then they already are?
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Kasse - Aug 16, 2004 11:58 am (#220 of 1297)
I like Matilda refuse to believe Ron as a candidate for death. Yes there are signs, I am not blind but we have been wrong before and I am praying we are wrong again.
Unlike Ron I there are no signs pointing to Hermione's death but then again that does not mean anything - in OOP she almost got hit with and AK curse, Remember? I hope she does not die either that would be awful.....
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Czarina II - Aug 16, 2004 8:50 pm (#221 of 1297)
I don't think either Ron or Hermione will die in the books. The only exception to this that I foresee is an epilogue stating that they died at the ripe old ages of 143 or something. Harry has to face Voldemort alone, but he is doing this now in GoF and OoP without the help of his two best friends and they are very much alive. In fact, Harry has been facing Voldemort since PS without their help. (I mean in the final showdown, of course.)
I would further like to say that I don't think any of Harry's inner circle will die.
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Solitaire - Aug 16, 2004 9:46 pm (#222 of 1297)
I hope you are correct, Czarina ... but in a war, there are casualties. After some of the newest hints and clues, I have a sick feeling many of those closest to Harry will die. I hope I am wrong.
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Czarina II - Aug 17, 2004 8:21 am (#223 of 1297)
"In a war, there are casualties." -- Solitaire
Well said, but since (in her own words) JKR has about 200 characters now, I think there are plenty of "spares" to kill off without going after the DoM Six. (Hmm...like that name.) Lupin might be killed, but his status as the Last Marauder might prevent such an outcome. I'm pretty sure Wormtail will die, so that only leaves Moony. [sniff] Lupin would be a lonely werewolf again.
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Kasse - Aug 17, 2004 8:33 am (#224 of 1297)
Yes I agree that JK has a lot of spares that she could kill off without making us burst into tears but then again, we would not really feel the emotion if say Fletcher Mundungus died as opposed to Lupin. I have a feeling that the casualties to come are going to get us (the readers) where it hurts the most.
I constantly pray that I am wrong........
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Solitaire - Aug 17, 2004 3:12 pm (#225 of 1297)
I do NOT want Remus to die. I like him the best of all the Marauders, even James. I sure hope JKR doesn't take him, too.
I agree that she has plenty of more "peripheral" characters to kill off, but the fact that they ARE peripheral makes me think they will not really be in the thick of battle. I hope she doesn't strip Harry of everyone he has loved by the end of things. It would just be too sorry a way to end the series, IMO.
I don't expect an ending that is all tied up in a big red bow--meaning I expect some major characters we love (including some of the kids and key adults) are going to die--but leaving the characters and readers to the mercy of a world without hope for any happiness or redemption would be pretty rotten. Just my opinion ...
Solitaire
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KTO - Aug 17, 2004 5:37 pm (#226 of 1297)
I believe that it is important to remember these are CHILDREN's books, and while JKR has arranged for Harry to suffer the death of loved ones I do not believe that she will take Ron or Hermoine from Harry, they are a part of him. I think that Dumbledore will go, I believe it will be freely and in order to advance the defeat of LV and the DE's. It is my hope that one of the DE's will die in a way that offers resurrection and redemption, my expectation is this will be wormtail. I also believe that there are things worse then death and maybe by the time it is all over LV will understand this and will welcome death, as JKR recently stated that LV NEVER felt love, if he had he would not be what he is, what a heartbreaking reality for anyone. I believe that JKR believes in the power of love, that it is the one thing that heals all hurts and can redeem even the most dire of existences, she may surprise us all and wrap things up in a way, that the magical world becomes the best of all that can be and something that we all can inspire too, KT
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 17, 2004 6:26 pm (#227 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Well said KT, bravo! Sometimes we can get involved in a concept (or thread) and get bogged down and not see the big picture.
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Mare - Aug 18, 2004 4:47 am (#228 of 1297)
I believe that it is important to remember these are CHILDREN's books
:sigh:
No they are not. They are being published as childrens books, but the story is written as just that: a story. Not ment for just children or adults, but just ment to be told. The story is fit for children, not particularly ment for children.
It is a story about a little boy growing up. We are going to see Harry when in the last book he has turned seventeen. He will be an adult then, and he will deal with adult business.
The books are about love. Yes, they are (amongst several subjects). And sometimes we lose the people we love the most, and no matter how hard we want to change it or how much we love them, they go anyway. Sometimes putting in the energy can make all the difference and sometimes the race is lost. That is the way the world works. Harry's world as well.
I don't hope that Ron or Hermione dies. I don't want any-one to die, not the Creeveys, not McGonnagall, Not Hannah Abbott and not Remus Lupin.
Do I think we will lose people, possibly even close friends? I think it is possible, partly because the books are about love, and allthough love is the strongest of all powers, it sometimes isn't enough.
Harry lives in a magical world, he doesn't live in a fairytale. Part of what attracts me to these books is how "real" they are: The magical world doesn't change the fact that there are emotions and limitations that muggle and wizard alike can't change or conquer.
C'est la vie...
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Steve Newton - Aug 18, 2004 6:22 am (#229 of 1297)
Librarian
On various threads it is suggested that the Longbottoms may get better. What bothers me about this is that when Bode started to bet better he was murdered. I think that the same may happen to the Longbottoms. Sort of the last stroke by the dard wizards at St. Mungos. I think they will leave some sort of message for Neville.
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KTO - Aug 18, 2004 7:08 am (#230 of 1297)
Love is enough, it has the power to save us from ourselves, the power to save others and the power to heal. It is my opinion that JKR is very aware that these books are read by children and the movies are seen by children, she will continue to do what she can to protect them and what I hope is their faith in the future. With this said (and in order to stick with the thread) I stick to my opinion that Ron and Hermoine survive, the good guys win and these books continued to be read and enjoyed for generations for the story and the sense of renewed hope that one will feel at the final conclusion. KT
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Archangel - Aug 18, 2004 8:16 am (#231 of 1297)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Oooh nice Steve Newton! Just to put a twist on that... What if they were hoping that such act would devastate Neville and the reverse actually happened? It pushes Neville to greater heights and causes him to tap into powers he never thought he had. I mean look at his vast improvement after the Azkaban 10 escaped!
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Star Crossed - Aug 18, 2004 12:49 pm (#232 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Archangel, Azkaban 10 sounds like a really bad band group. Thanks for the image.
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Steve Newton - Aug 18, 2004 1:07 pm (#233 of 1297)
Librarian
"Azkaban 10"
I think that I just had a flachback to the 60s.
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timrew - Aug 18, 2004 1:46 pm (#234 of 1297)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Or if Draco and his mates joined the Death Eaters, would they be known as 'The Nibbling Nine'?
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Casey - Aug 19, 2004 6:51 am (#235 of 1297)
The more I re-read the series, the more I think Dumbledore will die.
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Hermy-own - Aug 20, 2004 4:44 pm (#236 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Yes, Casey, I also have a suspicion DD may die in book 6/7. Not that I want him to die!
I believe the final battle will come down to Harry vs. LV. Would HP's success be more impressive/significant if achieved in DD's absence?
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 20, 2004 6:35 pm (#237 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Ok, last two opinons, Dumbledore is going to die in book 6 or 7.
My take, Dumbledore can't die. Dumbledore is orchrsating this waltz, in SS, did not Harry fight, and live to fight another day? In, COS, same thing, GOF, same thing. In my opinon, Harry has done well on his own. OooP showed Harry not yet ready to take on Moldie Voldie with what he knows up to this point by himself yet. I am in the camp, he learns not just from Dumbledore, but from all those around him.
Therefore, I see it as neither necessary Dumbledore dies, nor probable that he dies.
He either gets his "socks", or like Harry had hard time envisioning, laying on beach with sunscreen on his crooked nose....
Just my opinion, which I regard highly :-)
For my alchemy buddies, he will "transcend", but not die.
Edit: Ut oh, this might need to go to predictions thread?
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TheQuibbler - Aug 20, 2004 6:39 pm (#238 of 1297)
I don't know how I could stand reading a Dumbledore death scene in the books...
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 20, 2004 6:44 pm (#239 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
I would have to close the book...for how long, maybe a long, long time....
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total hatred - Aug 21, 2004 5:01 am (#240 of 1297)
I don't think Dumbledore will die. If he is to die, I believe he will still be revived. Remember that his patronus is a phoenix and phoenix is a symbol of rebirth.
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Quidam - Aug 21, 2004 7:17 am (#241 of 1297)
I think that Neville could die. Here are a few examples of what happens to Neville when he tries to stand up to other people (as you can see the results aren't good)
In PS. Neville tries to take on Crabbe and Goyle and is knocked out.
Later he tries to stop HRH sneaking out to get the Philosophers Stone and Hermione puts him under the full body bind.
In OOTP when Ron, Ginny and Luna are ambushed by the Inquisitorial Squad, Neville tries to stop Warrington from taking Ginny. So Warrington grabs Neville as well. At the Ministry, Neville follows Harry into the veil room and Bellatrix uses the Cruciatus curse on him.
I'm guessing that Neville will die in battle. He may even try to take on Voldemort.
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Hermy-own - Aug 21, 2004 7:50 am (#242 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
TwinklingBlueEyes - yes sorry, Harry has proved beyond doubt he can manage without DD's protection.
Over the years, DD vs. LV has been a major rivalry but more recently, the HP vs. LV rivalry has developed to similar proportions. The prophecy states that HP and LV will have to conclude this rivalry - one will have to kill the other.
This makes me ask, 'will the DD/LV rivalry be concluded?' If so, how and when? That's why I have a suspicion (as tenuous as it may be) that LV may defeat DD. Fingers crossed that I'm wrong - a DD death would be very hard to read. I guess it upto JKR...
Someone please get Sybill Trelawny on this thread - things would be much easier!
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Cuivienen - Aug 21, 2004 8:46 am (#243 of 1297)
I also think Dumbledore will die, but not until the climactic end scene in Book Seven. Obviously, Dumbledore cannot die any earlier because he is a key part of orchestrating the final battle, but I think it would both inspire Harry towards a final victory and tie up a loose end if Dumbledore died near the end of Book Seven.
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The One - Aug 21, 2004 8:52 am (#244 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Someone please get Sybill Trelawny on this thread - things would be much easier!
Yes: Everybody will die!
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 21, 2004 9:01 am (#245 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"Yes: Everybody will die!"
At least three times in one week! I'll be chuckling all the way to St Mungo's....
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Hermy-own - Aug 21, 2004 1:13 pm (#246 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Haha!! Everyone will die, probably even JKR herself!
OK, bad idea. How about her great-great-grandmother, Cassandra?
EDIT: That one is a bad idea too! (for obvious reasons)
Looks like Lavender and Parvati are our only hope.
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The One - Aug 21, 2004 1:18 pm (#247 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Firenze? "Mars is bright tonight.."
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Hermy-own - Aug 21, 2004 2:24 pm (#248 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Alas, all hope is not lost...
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Some Guy - Aug 21, 2004 10:56 pm (#249 of 1297)
I don't think Harry will survive. Lord Voldemort failed to kill Harry as a child, and in return, Harry failed to kill Voldemort when his curse rebounded. I have a feeling Harry will have to sacrifice himself in order to kill Voldemort and fulfill the prophecy (for neither can live while the other survives). After all, sacrifice is the ultimate form of bravery.
But then again it seems like JKR is setting Voldemort up for something worse then death, so we shall see !
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 22, 2004 10:11 am (#250 of 1297)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
SG, that last point is excellent: over and over again in the encounters between DD and LV, DD attempts to impress on LV that there are many things worse than death. LV finally realising that could be integral to the final plotline.
OK, now iron my hands for me, but I would not be too upset by DD's death. He gets put out of the foreground of the plot in CoS and OotP, and everyone else finds it more difficult to cope because DD isn't around. But I've always seen him as more of a behind the scenes mover than as someone to care deeply about on any personal level. He maintains a certain distance from Harry (through whose eyes we see the story) even at the end of OotP when he's admitting his mistakes and how he cares for Harry's happiness. Everything DD does is a part of some greater game, and that puts him at a distance from Harry and others, no matter how great/cool/powerful/caring he is as a person.
Would Harry be upset if DD dies? Absolutely. But there are lots of other people he cares about more: Hermione, Hagrid, the Weasleys (not just Ron), Lupin, and probably Neville and Cho. I have to agree with others above though, that JKR can only put Harry through so much loss before he completely cracks up. If he doesn't...well, I'd have a harder time suspending disbelief, really.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
Age : 52
Location : France
Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 251 to 300)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 10:42 am
Classicsquid592 - Aug 23, 2004 7:08 pm (#251 of 1297)
I recently read a fascinating book (the title of which I won't disclose because it will probably repel many of you, though any of you who happen to have read it will immediately recognize it.) He compares his prediction of the last three books to the three stages of Alchemy in the purification of metal; each stage taking out one or more of the characters represented by that stage. The first stage, the nigredo, or black stage, in which "the body of the impure metal ... the old, outmoded state of being is killed, putrefied, and dissolved into the origional substance of creation in order that it may be renovated and reborn in a new form." Sirius black (who died in the fifth book) may have been named for this stage. The fifth book is the nigredo stage in the story in which Harry is stripped of all his ideas of himself in order that he might understand his destiny. The second stage is purification, usually called the albedo, or white work. It follows the absolution or washing, of the prima materials, which causes it to turn a brilliant white. If the formula continues, in this manner, the next book might include the death of some of the "white" characters (Luna, Lupin, Cho among others). The next book would include Harry learning the power of love. This also would likely involve the death of Albus Dumbledore, (whose name means white and who is named for this stage) and Harry's ascention to head of the order. The final stage is the recongealing or perfection, usually called the rubedo, or red stage in which "as the heat of the fire is increased, the divine red tincture flushes the white Stone with its rich, red color ... the reddening the white matter is also frequently likened to staining with blood." According to this formula, Harry would come to full consciousnes of his powers and defeat Voldemort. This would include the deaths (or increased significance in some cases) of many of the "red" caracters: Rubeus Hagrid who shares a name with this stage, Harry, Ron, or Neville, Severus Snape, McGonnagal, Arthur Weasley, and others. One of this authors predictions as a possible end to the series involves Harry's self-sacrifice (the triumph of Love over death), and the consequent defeat of Voldemort by Neville Longbottom.
(((((*I have paraphrased, added my own additions to the theories, and deleted huge sections, but the intent of the idea is clear. (I also made a point to only mention the deaths of those we do not want to die, leaving out such characters as Voldemort, Lucious Malfoy, etc.) I thought that it was a very interesting way to look at it but I do not necesarily agree with everything he says. I tried to cut some of the more absurd ideas out, however. I do think that this could add interesting new direction to the discussion on character deaths. I hope that all of you find these ideas intriguing if not enlightening. (If anyone braver than me recognizes the book to which I refer, please help me out.)*)))))
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Archangel - Aug 23, 2004 8:43 pm (#252 of 1297)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Hi ClassicSquid592! Nice post! You'll be interested to know that the same topics have been raised and discussed in the Alchemy thread.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 24, 2004 2:01 pm (#253 of 1297)
aah. I might just go there. Tank you, I am new to the forum and have not read all of the posts.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 24, 2004 6:57 pm (#254 of 1297)
Archangel, I read the alchemy thread but couldn't find what you were talking about, were you telling me to copy this message into that thread? Are there more than one alchemy thread, if so, could you give me the link to the one you are referring to? If you think it will be appropriate, I will move the post into that post, thank you for your help.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 25, 2004 11:23 am (#255 of 1297)
No day but Today
Hey Classicsquid, I would be interested to hear more about this book of which you speak. Is it actually refering to the HP series? Maybe you could give me the title in invisible script, so others won't have to see it.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 25, 2004 1:58 pm (#256 of 1297)
It does refer to the HP series, but the title and much of the tone of the book has a strong religious connotation and some chat rooms have rules against bringing up religion. Perhaps answering a question does not violate these rules. Ok here goes *takes deep breath, winces, closes eyes, and starts typing*
"Looking for God in Harry Potter" by John Granger (2004). It is a mixture of persuasion to much of the fundamental Christian community that often opposes Harry Potter, and an analysis to the book from a religious perspective. It is truly a fascinating book and goes into everything from the names of the characters, to a comparison of the Harry Potter books with works of C.S. Lewis and JRR Tolkien along with a book-by-book analysis of the series and a prediction of possible happenings in the next two books. I think that Granger at times tends to over-analyze things and read things into the text, but it is a truly refreshing book for any of you who are, like me, sick of much of the religious criticism that these books have gotten unearned over the years. If you are offended by the book title for some reason, do not blame me blame Matilda and the fact that I have no idea how to do invisible writing. I think I have read all the rules and it might have been another HP chat that I never joined that mentioned religion but if it was this chat I was asked to do it so please don't kick me off. I don't want to be kicked off this forum please.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 25, 2004 1:58 pm (#257 of 1297)
Alas I knew that i was italics not invisible. oh well.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 25, 2004 2:33 pm (#258 of 1297)
Oh No! I did break the rules, I just went back and reread them. From now on, if I don't reveal the title of something remember that I have a very good reason. *please don't kick me off*
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Hermy-own - Aug 25, 2004 4:20 pm (#259 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Classicsquid, if you don't know how to make the text invisible, you could always delete the post...
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Star Crossed - Aug 25, 2004 6:51 pm (#260 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Classicsquid, invisible text is < font color = " white " > Text < / font > without the spaces. And, I'm not a mod, but I doubt you'll be deleted. That's for people discussing religion, and you're just mentioning it in passing in reference to a book. I could be wrong however.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 25, 2004 7:26 pm (#261 of 1297)
Thanks. I'll make a note of that.
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Archangel - Aug 26, 2004 4:39 am (#262 of 1297)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Hello ClassicSquid592! Here's the post about Nigredo in the alchemy thread. There's actually more and we're already using it to interpret some of the text in HP. You may want to incorporate your idea about it, albedo and rubedo too there.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 26, 2004 1:40 pm (#263 of 1297)
Thank you for the Link Archangel, I will copy it there.
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TomProffitt - Aug 29, 2004 6:27 am (#264 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
When writing of Sirius' death Jo has said she wanted to make it sudden and unexpected. She did this to reflect the nature of war, one minute you are talking to a friend and the next moment he is dead. She tries very much to make her world "real," conscientiously avoiding stereo-types. Even Harry's dates (Parvati and Cho) lack the shallow children's books relationships of the Hardy Boys, but are the real way that 14 and 15 year-old dates and relationships tend to go.
These trends in Jo's writing lead me to believe that none of Jo's characters are safe from the fortunes of war. Any character could be brought down at any moment. This is the brutal and inescapable nature of war.
I do not wish to see any of my favorite characters die, but I expect at least one or two to do so. I doubt any of the Marauders will survive. I think Severus Snape may redeem himself in Harry's eyes by sacrificing himself. Poor Tonks, named for a tortured and martyred saint, seems to be on the list of those doomed to die. I would not be surprised in the least to see a Weasley die (and really expect it, frankly), but I have no idea which one it will be.
The Wizarding World is as real as Jo can make it. No one is safe. Anyone can die.
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True Love - Aug 29, 2004 6:30 am (#265 of 1297)
Deaths in final two books?
Pettigrew for sure. Probably in book 6 to lead us into book 7.
The final battle in book 7 -
Who stands between Voldie and Harry? DD of course. Voldie will kill DD but that will be his biggest mistake as it will not only get Harry ticked off at him but all the other DD followers. They will all rise up against him and his DE, giving Harry the strength and knowledge that he is no longer alone. With this, he will be able to defeat the Dark Lord once and for all (end of book 7).
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Julia. - Aug 29, 2004 8:23 am (#266 of 1297)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Excellent thoughts Tom, take 10 points for your house. You are quite right, no one is is safe from this war. As much as I really don't want to think about it, I've decided who I think is going to assume room temperature by the end.
I would not be surprised to see Snape die by sacrificing himself to protect someone else, probally Harry. I think Wormtail is going to snuff it as well. At least two Weasleys will as well, my bet for that is on Arthur and Percy. Dumbledore will not make it to the end either. I also think the Dursleys are headed for trouble, I can easily see an attack on Number 4, and it would not be a stretch for at least one of the Dursleys to die. I'm also pretty sure that someone very close to Harry will die, and by very close I mean Ron, Hermione, Neville, Ginny or Luna, but I would really, really rather not think about that.
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Steve Newton - Aug 29, 2004 8:34 am (#267 of 1297)
Librarian
I, too, worry about the Weasley's. In Molly's meeting with the boggart in OOTP we see all of the Weasleys dead except Ginny, Charlie(maybe Bill, I can't remember), and Molly herself. My first thought is that these three will all die. The other option is that these are the three to survive. I'm not sure that I want to follow up on that thought.
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Hermy-own - Aug 29, 2004 3:50 pm (#268 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Woah! Slow down Julia, Steve! You're both starting to sound like Sybill Trelawny...
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riddikulus - Aug 29, 2004 5:00 pm (#269 of 1297)
I initially put this on the Draco thread, but it fits here too, so:
In PoA, the Buckbeak scene, after he hurts Draco; Draco says "he's killed me" re: buckbeak. Of course, originally I just assumed that Draco is a git, over exaggerating and being dramatic... but what if this is really some kind of foreshadowing? He doesn't say, it's killing me, or this is killing me, or he's hurt me, even... but, he's killed me. I'm not so sure, though, that it'll be Buckbeak doing the killing, although, would be good justice. for Buckbeak to get a juicy big ferret in the end.. I think it's a set up with his demise being the conclusion , though.
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Brent Dill - Aug 29, 2004 6:53 pm (#270 of 1297)
In book 6: I don't think any of the trio will die. They are all too useful to the book. Obviously Harry can't die yet (if he does) Hermione is a constant source of information, and Ron is... well... RON. JK cant possibly kill Ron. She just cant. I think DD has to die in book 6 so that Harry can prepare himself to face Voldemort alone. I don't WANT Molly Weasley to die, but it is a good possibility seeing as every other parental figure Harry has had has died. I dont think Neville will die because I see Neville as the one person who is actually present in the Harry/Voldy face-off. Hagrid is also another good possibility.
Here's a thought, maybe no one will die! But then a lot of people would probably die in the first chapters of book 7...
In conclusion, I have no idea.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 29, 2004 8:48 pm (#271 of 1297)
If Dumbledore were to die, then the order would be temporarily without a secret keeper, this would allow for some interesting possibilities see my post in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] You have already seen my death predictions in this forum even though there was a little bit of chaos surrounding them.
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Czarina II - Aug 29, 2004 11:13 pm (#272 of 1297)
My list of characters who will get a DNF beside their name in the character list: (you know you've been watching too much Olympics when...;-))
- Voldemort (surprise, surprise)
- Wormtail
- Malfoy Sr.
- Bellatrix and co.
- Snape
- Karkaroff (if he isn't dead already)
- Percy
- Arthur
- Alice and Frank Longbottom
- Trelawney
Probably some others, too.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 31, 2004 7:35 am (#273 of 1297)
No day but Today
I'm very sorry Classicsquid for getting you in trouble by asking the title of that book. I will iron my hands.
Like I have said before, I desperately hope that none of the Weasley's die, but it seems inevitable. I think also that Dumbledore will die, but not untill book seven. At the very end of the book, something like "and before Harry had a chance to speak Dumbledore vanished(aka died), softly saying as he went, put some ice on that scar." or something like that.
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Quibbler Editor In Chief - Aug 31, 2004 1:46 pm (#274 of 1297)
I think that it is highly unliklely that Neville will die, atleast in HBP. As was said by Brent Dill earlier. I think that Neville still has to take a much larger role in future books because he is the only minor character that is mentioned so many times.
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Steve Newton - Aug 31, 2004 4:47 pm (#275 of 1297)
Librarian
I'm not so sure that Neville is a minor character any longer.
Harry's core group now includes himself, Hermione, Ron, Ginny, Luna, and Neville. Maybe Lupin. I think that this sixsome, or sevensome, or pair of trios, your choice, will be together the rest of the way. Unless they die, of course.
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 1, 2004 3:31 pm (#276 of 1297)
"I'm very sorry Classicsquid for getting you in trouble by asking the title of that book. I will iron my hands."
Its okay Matilda, I was completely overreacting. I went to the hosts and asked about it the same day and was told that I was fine.
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Quibbler Editor In Chief - Sep 2, 2004 7:13 pm (#277 of 1297)
I guess that you could also look at it that way Steve Newton. There is obviously no exact line between major and minor, but I personally think of Harry, Ron, Hermione, Draco, Dumbledore, and maybe a few other teachers as the major MAJOR characters.
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total hatred - Sep 4, 2004 3:35 am (#278 of 1297)
I was browsing in the net and I read about this interesting article. Even this is not a subject of the article, I had a stupid idea that Voldie deliberately bonded himself to Harry. Remember that JKR said Voldie made measures to prevent him from dying and no asked why Voldie survived the fiasco at Godric Hallow. In own honest opinion, Voldie never casted Avada Kedabra at Harry but before he can cast it, something in Harry was triggered. That power within him blasted Voldie leaving him half dead and with him dying, Voldie made a last resort to bound himself to Harry. You might argue that the Avada Kedabra rebounded back to Voldie but that is a bit illogical. Never did we saw a high level spell got deflected and the Protego spell only protects you from weaker spells. As power within Harry, I believed that it was the power of the Phoenix. Remember that when a Phoenix dies, it engulfs itself in flames, leaving a epicenter of destruction within a certain radius. This explains why the house is totally destroyed and scorched
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 4, 2004 3:44 am (#279 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
A very interesting point of view total. 20 points to your house for something to ponder.
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total hatred - Sep 4, 2004 4:43 am (#280 of 1297)
Thanks. I also add that I never seen a spell that inflict splash damage. If the Avada Kedabra was cast on a person, it only affects the target never its sorroundings.
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Kasse - Sep 7, 2004 10:54 am (#281 of 1297)
I have a question: every time that someone dies in the books it is a quick (maybe painless) death. It happens in a blink of an eye, almost to the extent that if one was reading too fast they might miss it. So you think that this is a trend Jo will keep up? (Sorry if this is in the wrong thread I had no idea where else to put it.)
Personally I would prefer it if when one of the Weasley's die (this is inevitable and as much as I do not want it to happen I have begun to prepare myself emotionally)I would rather hear about it through an owl to Ron and Ginny from their parents. I have no desire to read about anyone being tortured to death or getting hit by the AK.
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Chris. - Sep 7, 2004 11:31 am (#282 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't think any of the Trio will die. I repeat, they better not!!
I, too, think a Weasley will die. I hope it's not Ron, Bill, Charlie, Ginny, Arthur, Molly, Fred or George. Hmmm... only leaves one person
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Neville Longbottom - Sep 7, 2004 12:45 pm (#283 of 1297)
And that's the reason why I think it won't be Percy. It would be way to simple, if JKR just killed off the most unsympathetic Weasley (from an objective point of view, I like Percy much better than some other family members). If she'll kill a Weasley, it will probably be one we really like. And if it's Percy, she'll make sure that we will see him in a really good light before he dies.
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total hatred - Sep 7, 2004 2:38 pm (#284 of 1297)
I agree. Killing Percy is far too boring. We never got too much emotional attachment to Percy. I agree to the fact that if Percy is to die, he may repent his evil ways before he dies. Maybe JKR will kill Percy by getting hit by AK curse while trying to save a family member
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Kasse - Sep 7, 2004 2:59 pm (#285 of 1297)
Concering the Weasly's I can not see one twin surviving without the other so I think that Fred and George are safe. She would not dare take both of them.......would she?
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total hatred - Sep 7, 2004 3:19 pm (#286 of 1297)
Maybe,I don't know. This war you know, there should be casualties but I believe Greed and Forge will survive. They are far to sneaky to die that easily and in worse case scenario, they might be just critically injured
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Sep 8, 2004 5:53 pm (#287 of 1297)
No day but Today
Edited by S.E. Jones Sep 8, 2004 8:11 pm
All of this talk about the Weasleys dying has got me thinking about which one it will be. I absolutely LOVE them all(except Percy) and I will cry and throw things and have a fit like a child if any of them dies, but there is a logical way to look at which one it will be.
It won't be Percy, because nobody likes him and he has no real importance. It probably won't be Bill or Charlie, because they are the two we know the least about and are still kind of minor characters. It won't be Fred or George, because you can't have one without the other, and killing them both would be too much. She absoulutely can't kill Ron, because he is part of the unbreakable trio and Harry's life force.
So basically I'm saying that it will probably either Molly, Arthur or Ginny. I hope against hope that its none of them, and this post is total poo.
->Edited for language.<- SE Jones
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Star Crossed - Sep 8, 2004 7:11 pm (#288 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think it would be hugely dramatic if she kills one twin and not the other. Also, I think Arthur and Ginny are pretty safe, once someone has their life threatened in a book, it's usually the only time. The exception, of course, being the hero.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 8, 2004 7:32 pm (#289 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
One thing about Authur that has always worried me was his remark about the snake bite..."'It seems there was some rather unusual kind of poison in that snake's fangs that keeps wounds open."
Considering Moldie Voldie's "pet" snake, and the milking of that snake that is vital to the DL's existance...ok, mind rambling here...maybe Moldie's umm, essesnce stored else where ( as has been suggested) is in his "pet"?
Rambles off to St Mungo's....clip-clop, clip-clop...
Edited to complete thought: Maybe Nagini has to die?
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Czarina II - Sep 9, 2004 7:15 pm (#290 of 1297)
I think the following on the possible deaths of the Weasleys:
Ginny -- Nope. She's the only girl. Also, whether or not she's Harry's potential interest, Harry will need her.
Ron -- Nope. End of discussion.
Fred, George -- Nope. It's either both or neither. I think JKR wants us to like them and they are the comic relief. It is not a good move to kill the comic relief!
Percy -- Quite Possibly. He IS unsympathetic at the moment, so I only see a redemption in store prior to his demise. In my fanfic, he steps between an AK and Arthur.
Charlie -- Maybe. He has a dangerous job and we've hardly met him. JKR might do so just to keep both camps happy.
Bill -- Not likely. He has been portrayed as "cool" and he is the one who is the most responsible. As the oldest brother, his loss would leave a gaping hole.
Molly -- Maybe. She is very brave and constantly worries. She is the Weasley matriarch. Two of her male relatives (at least) were killed in VWI.
Arthur -- Quite possibly. He works at the Ministry, he loves Muggles, readers and characters like him, he is among Dumbledore's inner circle, he does dangerous work for the Order...He also has a large family that he has a duty to protect. I have him dying in my fanfic after Percy, as he tries to protect Molly from rushing to them.
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LooneyLuna - Sep 10, 2004 8:36 am (#291 of 1297)
As much as I would hate to read it (and I'll cry a river), I think Ron is going to die. He's going to sacrifice himself (just like in the Chess game in PS) so that Harry can go on. I also think Kingsley Shacklebolt and Moody will die. Moody because two or more DEs will gang up on him to take him out. As for other Weasleys, I think Percy and Arthur will die. I really fear for Hermione's parents. Malfoy Sr. knows what they look like. I can see them being kidnapped/tortured to draw Harry out.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 10, 2004 9:28 am (#292 of 1297)
If Percy dies it could possibly be to save some else. If this scenario occurs I think Percy will die to save Arthur or Molly.
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Kasse - Sep 10, 2004 11:42 am (#293 of 1297)
Matilda Jones - I will cry and throw things and have a fit like a child if any of them dies - I had to laugh at this statement because I feel the exact same way. Like I said before I am trying to prepare myself emotionally for the worst.
Star Crossed - Yes it would be dramatic if one twin dies and not the other but can you just imagine how the one left behind will feel? Just to read such emotion would be too much for me. If a Weasley twin is to die I would rather she take both than just one, that way they would still be together, behind the curtain or wherever wizards go when they die.
Twinkling Blue Eyes - I have always assumed that Nagini will die just like I assume Wormtail will die.
Czarina II - Ron -- Nope. End of discussion - Thank you for making me smile with joy and hope.
Looney Luna - I agree about Hermione's parents being taken and tortured, that sounds highly possible and Lucius would probably enjoy doing it.
Finally I want to go along with anyone and everyone who has said that they do not think that Arthur or Ginny will die. I have to agree after all they have both had near death experiences they should be safe now.
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Neville Longbottom - Sep 10, 2004 3:13 pm (#294 of 1297)
I think if Percy dies to save someone else, it will be Ron. I got the impression, that Percy likes him most of all his silblings, and there are some foundations laid that something big has to happen involving these two characters. But I still don't think she'll kill off Percy.
The two characters who I think are most likely to die in book 6 are Dumbledore and Seamus. Dumbledore because he has to go at one point, and Seamus because I have a bad feeling about him, and because he didn't join the DA until it was too late and therefore might not be skilled enough, to defend himself.
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Hermy-own - Sep 10, 2004 4:03 pm (#295 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
You raise an interesting point about Seamus. I suppose the same logic could be applied to Marietta "Traitor" Edgecombe.
I also think that Dumbledore has to go at one point. Well put, Neville.
*Hides from Pam*
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colbow - Sep 10, 2004 5:34 pm (#296 of 1297)
I really hope that Dumbledore,Harry and the Weasleys live to tell the tale , I really do. I can't help wondering how much more Harry can with stand as far as people he loves and cares end up dying?? Maybe Lupin or Moody will go, but I think book six maybe will be like PoA, with the explainations about who, what, and when. Then book seven , look out, that when all heck breaks loose, with wizards falling left and right. I just hope beyond all hope it's not HRH.
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Neville Longbottom - Sep 11, 2004 2:11 am (#297 of 1297)
I suppose the same logic could be applied to Marietta "Traitor" Edgecombe.
Not necessarily, because Marietta was there and probably learned a lot, even if she turned traitor in the end. On the other hand, of course none of the skills they learned are enough against Voldemort, but it still is better than nothing.
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Hermy-own - Sep 11, 2004 8:58 am (#298 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Let's make a couple of assumptions. Firstly, the DA meetings will continue in book 6, and secondly, Marietta will not attend these meetings.
I think more than one eyebrow would be raised if she eventually dies at the hand of Death Eaters. Many would wonder whether she would have been sufficiently skilled to defend herself had she not left the DA. Just as many would wonder, upon Seamus' death, whether he would have been sufficiently skilled to defend himself had he joined the DA earlier.
I can just imagine Ron saying, "Well, if she hadn't betrayed us and left, she would have known how to"
Hope that makes sense.
Hermy.
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Good Evans - Sep 11, 2004 11:05 am (#299 of 1297)
Practically perfect in every way
I disagree with the earlier comment that JK may kill off Percy as he is an unsympathetic character, she killed off Sirius and we loved him. I dont think she works that way, I think that the more we love them the more at risk they are. Cedric we didnt love but didnt hate either, he was the first for necessary reasons, Sirius again was necessary (to leave harry alone again) but we desparately didnt want him to go. Percy may redeam himself adn could well die in saving ron or another character, but I wouldn't assume that he may be for the chop because we care less about him than the other Weasley's . If I misunderstood the post I apologise but I thought it needed saying.
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Choices - Sep 11, 2004 6:20 pm (#300 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Innocent people die in wars - that is rule # 1, sad as it may be. Rule #2 says that people can't change rule #1 no matter how much they want to. I think Cedric was the symbolic "innocent", and probably not the first or the last unfortunately. He wasn't actively involved in the fight against Voldemort that we know of - he really didn't know what he was getting into when he grabbed the Triwizard trophy with Harry and his life was snuffed out for no reason other than he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Voldemort wanted Harry and anyone else was excess baggage - expendable.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I recently read a fascinating book (the title of which I won't disclose because it will probably repel many of you, though any of you who happen to have read it will immediately recognize it.) He compares his prediction of the last three books to the three stages of Alchemy in the purification of metal; each stage taking out one or more of the characters represented by that stage. The first stage, the nigredo, or black stage, in which "the body of the impure metal ... the old, outmoded state of being is killed, putrefied, and dissolved into the origional substance of creation in order that it may be renovated and reborn in a new form." Sirius black (who died in the fifth book) may have been named for this stage. The fifth book is the nigredo stage in the story in which Harry is stripped of all his ideas of himself in order that he might understand his destiny. The second stage is purification, usually called the albedo, or white work. It follows the absolution or washing, of the prima materials, which causes it to turn a brilliant white. If the formula continues, in this manner, the next book might include the death of some of the "white" characters (Luna, Lupin, Cho among others). The next book would include Harry learning the power of love. This also would likely involve the death of Albus Dumbledore, (whose name means white and who is named for this stage) and Harry's ascention to head of the order. The final stage is the recongealing or perfection, usually called the rubedo, or red stage in which "as the heat of the fire is increased, the divine red tincture flushes the white Stone with its rich, red color ... the reddening the white matter is also frequently likened to staining with blood." According to this formula, Harry would come to full consciousnes of his powers and defeat Voldemort. This would include the deaths (or increased significance in some cases) of many of the "red" caracters: Rubeus Hagrid who shares a name with this stage, Harry, Ron, or Neville, Severus Snape, McGonnagal, Arthur Weasley, and others. One of this authors predictions as a possible end to the series involves Harry's self-sacrifice (the triumph of Love over death), and the consequent defeat of Voldemort by Neville Longbottom.
(((((*I have paraphrased, added my own additions to the theories, and deleted huge sections, but the intent of the idea is clear. (I also made a point to only mention the deaths of those we do not want to die, leaving out such characters as Voldemort, Lucious Malfoy, etc.) I thought that it was a very interesting way to look at it but I do not necesarily agree with everything he says. I tried to cut some of the more absurd ideas out, however. I do think that this could add interesting new direction to the discussion on character deaths. I hope that all of you find these ideas intriguing if not enlightening. (If anyone braver than me recognizes the book to which I refer, please help me out.)*)))))
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Archangel - Aug 23, 2004 8:43 pm (#252 of 1297)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Hi ClassicSquid592! Nice post! You'll be interested to know that the same topics have been raised and discussed in the Alchemy thread.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 24, 2004 2:01 pm (#253 of 1297)
aah. I might just go there. Tank you, I am new to the forum and have not read all of the posts.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 24, 2004 6:57 pm (#254 of 1297)
Archangel, I read the alchemy thread but couldn't find what you were talking about, were you telling me to copy this message into that thread? Are there more than one alchemy thread, if so, could you give me the link to the one you are referring to? If you think it will be appropriate, I will move the post into that post, thank you for your help.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 25, 2004 11:23 am (#255 of 1297)
No day but Today
Hey Classicsquid, I would be interested to hear more about this book of which you speak. Is it actually refering to the HP series? Maybe you could give me the title in invisible script, so others won't have to see it.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 25, 2004 1:58 pm (#256 of 1297)
It does refer to the HP series, but the title and much of the tone of the book has a strong religious connotation and some chat rooms have rules against bringing up religion. Perhaps answering a question does not violate these rules. Ok here goes *takes deep breath, winces, closes eyes, and starts typing*
"Looking for God in Harry Potter" by John Granger (2004). It is a mixture of persuasion to much of the fundamental Christian community that often opposes Harry Potter, and an analysis to the book from a religious perspective. It is truly a fascinating book and goes into everything from the names of the characters, to a comparison of the Harry Potter books with works of C.S. Lewis and JRR Tolkien along with a book-by-book analysis of the series and a prediction of possible happenings in the next two books. I think that Granger at times tends to over-analyze things and read things into the text, but it is a truly refreshing book for any of you who are, like me, sick of much of the religious criticism that these books have gotten unearned over the years. If you are offended by the book title for some reason, do not blame me blame Matilda and the fact that I have no idea how to do invisible writing. I think I have read all the rules and it might have been another HP chat that I never joined that mentioned religion but if it was this chat I was asked to do it so please don't kick me off. I don't want to be kicked off this forum please.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 25, 2004 1:58 pm (#257 of 1297)
Alas I knew that i was italics not invisible. oh well.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 25, 2004 2:33 pm (#258 of 1297)
Oh No! I did break the rules, I just went back and reread them. From now on, if I don't reveal the title of something remember that I have a very good reason. *please don't kick me off*
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Hermy-own - Aug 25, 2004 4:20 pm (#259 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Classicsquid, if you don't know how to make the text invisible, you could always delete the post...
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Star Crossed - Aug 25, 2004 6:51 pm (#260 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Classicsquid, invisible text is < font color = " white " > Text < / font > without the spaces. And, I'm not a mod, but I doubt you'll be deleted. That's for people discussing religion, and you're just mentioning it in passing in reference to a book. I could be wrong however.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 25, 2004 7:26 pm (#261 of 1297)
Thanks. I'll make a note of that.
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Archangel - Aug 26, 2004 4:39 am (#262 of 1297)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Hello ClassicSquid592! Here's the post about Nigredo in the alchemy thread. There's actually more and we're already using it to interpret some of the text in HP. You may want to incorporate your idea about it, albedo and rubedo too there.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 26, 2004 1:40 pm (#263 of 1297)
Thank you for the Link Archangel, I will copy it there.
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TomProffitt - Aug 29, 2004 6:27 am (#264 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
When writing of Sirius' death Jo has said she wanted to make it sudden and unexpected. She did this to reflect the nature of war, one minute you are talking to a friend and the next moment he is dead. She tries very much to make her world "real," conscientiously avoiding stereo-types. Even Harry's dates (Parvati and Cho) lack the shallow children's books relationships of the Hardy Boys, but are the real way that 14 and 15 year-old dates and relationships tend to go.
These trends in Jo's writing lead me to believe that none of Jo's characters are safe from the fortunes of war. Any character could be brought down at any moment. This is the brutal and inescapable nature of war.
I do not wish to see any of my favorite characters die, but I expect at least one or two to do so. I doubt any of the Marauders will survive. I think Severus Snape may redeem himself in Harry's eyes by sacrificing himself. Poor Tonks, named for a tortured and martyred saint, seems to be on the list of those doomed to die. I would not be surprised in the least to see a Weasley die (and really expect it, frankly), but I have no idea which one it will be.
The Wizarding World is as real as Jo can make it. No one is safe. Anyone can die.
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True Love - Aug 29, 2004 6:30 am (#265 of 1297)
Deaths in final two books?
Pettigrew for sure. Probably in book 6 to lead us into book 7.
The final battle in book 7 -
Who stands between Voldie and Harry? DD of course. Voldie will kill DD but that will be his biggest mistake as it will not only get Harry ticked off at him but all the other DD followers. They will all rise up against him and his DE, giving Harry the strength and knowledge that he is no longer alone. With this, he will be able to defeat the Dark Lord once and for all (end of book 7).
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Julia. - Aug 29, 2004 8:23 am (#266 of 1297)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Excellent thoughts Tom, take 10 points for your house. You are quite right, no one is is safe from this war. As much as I really don't want to think about it, I've decided who I think is going to assume room temperature by the end.
I would not be surprised to see Snape die by sacrificing himself to protect someone else, probally Harry. I think Wormtail is going to snuff it as well. At least two Weasleys will as well, my bet for that is on Arthur and Percy. Dumbledore will not make it to the end either. I also think the Dursleys are headed for trouble, I can easily see an attack on Number 4, and it would not be a stretch for at least one of the Dursleys to die. I'm also pretty sure that someone very close to Harry will die, and by very close I mean Ron, Hermione, Neville, Ginny or Luna, but I would really, really rather not think about that.
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Steve Newton - Aug 29, 2004 8:34 am (#267 of 1297)
Librarian
I, too, worry about the Weasley's. In Molly's meeting with the boggart in OOTP we see all of the Weasleys dead except Ginny, Charlie(maybe Bill, I can't remember), and Molly herself. My first thought is that these three will all die. The other option is that these are the three to survive. I'm not sure that I want to follow up on that thought.
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Hermy-own - Aug 29, 2004 3:50 pm (#268 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Woah! Slow down Julia, Steve! You're both starting to sound like Sybill Trelawny...
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riddikulus - Aug 29, 2004 5:00 pm (#269 of 1297)
I initially put this on the Draco thread, but it fits here too, so:
In PoA, the Buckbeak scene, after he hurts Draco; Draco says "he's killed me" re: buckbeak. Of course, originally I just assumed that Draco is a git, over exaggerating and being dramatic... but what if this is really some kind of foreshadowing? He doesn't say, it's killing me, or this is killing me, or he's hurt me, even... but, he's killed me. I'm not so sure, though, that it'll be Buckbeak doing the killing, although, would be good justice. for Buckbeak to get a juicy big ferret in the end.. I think it's a set up with his demise being the conclusion , though.
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Brent Dill - Aug 29, 2004 6:53 pm (#270 of 1297)
In book 6: I don't think any of the trio will die. They are all too useful to the book. Obviously Harry can't die yet (if he does) Hermione is a constant source of information, and Ron is... well... RON. JK cant possibly kill Ron. She just cant. I think DD has to die in book 6 so that Harry can prepare himself to face Voldemort alone. I don't WANT Molly Weasley to die, but it is a good possibility seeing as every other parental figure Harry has had has died. I dont think Neville will die because I see Neville as the one person who is actually present in the Harry/Voldy face-off. Hagrid is also another good possibility.
Here's a thought, maybe no one will die! But then a lot of people would probably die in the first chapters of book 7...
In conclusion, I have no idea.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 29, 2004 8:48 pm (#271 of 1297)
If Dumbledore were to die, then the order would be temporarily without a secret keeper, this would allow for some interesting possibilities see my post in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] You have already seen my death predictions in this forum even though there was a little bit of chaos surrounding them.
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Czarina II - Aug 29, 2004 11:13 pm (#272 of 1297)
My list of characters who will get a DNF beside their name in the character list: (you know you've been watching too much Olympics when...;-))
- Voldemort (surprise, surprise)
- Wormtail
- Malfoy Sr.
- Bellatrix and co.
- Snape
- Karkaroff (if he isn't dead already)
- Percy
- Arthur
- Alice and Frank Longbottom
- Trelawney
Probably some others, too.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 31, 2004 7:35 am (#273 of 1297)
No day but Today
I'm very sorry Classicsquid for getting you in trouble by asking the title of that book. I will iron my hands.
Like I have said before, I desperately hope that none of the Weasley's die, but it seems inevitable. I think also that Dumbledore will die, but not untill book seven. At the very end of the book, something like "and before Harry had a chance to speak Dumbledore vanished(aka died), softly saying as he went, put some ice on that scar." or something like that.
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Quibbler Editor In Chief - Aug 31, 2004 1:46 pm (#274 of 1297)
I think that it is highly unliklely that Neville will die, atleast in HBP. As was said by Brent Dill earlier. I think that Neville still has to take a much larger role in future books because he is the only minor character that is mentioned so many times.
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Steve Newton - Aug 31, 2004 4:47 pm (#275 of 1297)
Librarian
I'm not so sure that Neville is a minor character any longer.
Harry's core group now includes himself, Hermione, Ron, Ginny, Luna, and Neville. Maybe Lupin. I think that this sixsome, or sevensome, or pair of trios, your choice, will be together the rest of the way. Unless they die, of course.
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 1, 2004 3:31 pm (#276 of 1297)
"I'm very sorry Classicsquid for getting you in trouble by asking the title of that book. I will iron my hands."
Its okay Matilda, I was completely overreacting. I went to the hosts and asked about it the same day and was told that I was fine.
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Quibbler Editor In Chief - Sep 2, 2004 7:13 pm (#277 of 1297)
I guess that you could also look at it that way Steve Newton. There is obviously no exact line between major and minor, but I personally think of Harry, Ron, Hermione, Draco, Dumbledore, and maybe a few other teachers as the major MAJOR characters.
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total hatred - Sep 4, 2004 3:35 am (#278 of 1297)
I was browsing in the net and I read about this interesting article. Even this is not a subject of the article, I had a stupid idea that Voldie deliberately bonded himself to Harry. Remember that JKR said Voldie made measures to prevent him from dying and no asked why Voldie survived the fiasco at Godric Hallow. In own honest opinion, Voldie never casted Avada Kedabra at Harry but before he can cast it, something in Harry was triggered. That power within him blasted Voldie leaving him half dead and with him dying, Voldie made a last resort to bound himself to Harry. You might argue that the Avada Kedabra rebounded back to Voldie but that is a bit illogical. Never did we saw a high level spell got deflected and the Protego spell only protects you from weaker spells. As power within Harry, I believed that it was the power of the Phoenix. Remember that when a Phoenix dies, it engulfs itself in flames, leaving a epicenter of destruction within a certain radius. This explains why the house is totally destroyed and scorched
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 4, 2004 3:44 am (#279 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
A very interesting point of view total. 20 points to your house for something to ponder.
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total hatred - Sep 4, 2004 4:43 am (#280 of 1297)
Thanks. I also add that I never seen a spell that inflict splash damage. If the Avada Kedabra was cast on a person, it only affects the target never its sorroundings.
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Kasse - Sep 7, 2004 10:54 am (#281 of 1297)
I have a question: every time that someone dies in the books it is a quick (maybe painless) death. It happens in a blink of an eye, almost to the extent that if one was reading too fast they might miss it. So you think that this is a trend Jo will keep up? (Sorry if this is in the wrong thread I had no idea where else to put it.)
Personally I would prefer it if when one of the Weasley's die (this is inevitable and as much as I do not want it to happen I have begun to prepare myself emotionally)I would rather hear about it through an owl to Ron and Ginny from their parents. I have no desire to read about anyone being tortured to death or getting hit by the AK.
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Chris. - Sep 7, 2004 11:31 am (#282 of 1297)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't think any of the Trio will die. I repeat, they better not!!
I, too, think a Weasley will die. I hope it's not Ron, Bill, Charlie, Ginny, Arthur, Molly, Fred or George. Hmmm... only leaves one person
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Neville Longbottom - Sep 7, 2004 12:45 pm (#283 of 1297)
And that's the reason why I think it won't be Percy. It would be way to simple, if JKR just killed off the most unsympathetic Weasley (from an objective point of view, I like Percy much better than some other family members). If she'll kill a Weasley, it will probably be one we really like. And if it's Percy, she'll make sure that we will see him in a really good light before he dies.
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total hatred - Sep 7, 2004 2:38 pm (#284 of 1297)
I agree. Killing Percy is far too boring. We never got too much emotional attachment to Percy. I agree to the fact that if Percy is to die, he may repent his evil ways before he dies. Maybe JKR will kill Percy by getting hit by AK curse while trying to save a family member
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Kasse - Sep 7, 2004 2:59 pm (#285 of 1297)
Concering the Weasly's I can not see one twin surviving without the other so I think that Fred and George are safe. She would not dare take both of them.......would she?
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total hatred - Sep 7, 2004 3:19 pm (#286 of 1297)
Maybe,I don't know. This war you know, there should be casualties but I believe Greed and Forge will survive. They are far to sneaky to die that easily and in worse case scenario, they might be just critically injured
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Sep 8, 2004 5:53 pm (#287 of 1297)
No day but Today
Edited by S.E. Jones Sep 8, 2004 8:11 pm
All of this talk about the Weasleys dying has got me thinking about which one it will be. I absolutely LOVE them all(except Percy) and I will cry and throw things and have a fit like a child if any of them dies, but there is a logical way to look at which one it will be.
It won't be Percy, because nobody likes him and he has no real importance. It probably won't be Bill or Charlie, because they are the two we know the least about and are still kind of minor characters. It won't be Fred or George, because you can't have one without the other, and killing them both would be too much. She absoulutely can't kill Ron, because he is part of the unbreakable trio and Harry's life force.
So basically I'm saying that it will probably either Molly, Arthur or Ginny. I hope against hope that its none of them, and this post is total poo.
->Edited for language.<- SE Jones
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Star Crossed - Sep 8, 2004 7:11 pm (#288 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think it would be hugely dramatic if she kills one twin and not the other. Also, I think Arthur and Ginny are pretty safe, once someone has their life threatened in a book, it's usually the only time. The exception, of course, being the hero.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 8, 2004 7:32 pm (#289 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
One thing about Authur that has always worried me was his remark about the snake bite..."'It seems there was some rather unusual kind of poison in that snake's fangs that keeps wounds open."
Considering Moldie Voldie's "pet" snake, and the milking of that snake that is vital to the DL's existance...ok, mind rambling here...maybe Moldie's umm, essesnce stored else where ( as has been suggested) is in his "pet"?
Rambles off to St Mungo's....clip-clop, clip-clop...
Edited to complete thought: Maybe Nagini has to die?
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Czarina II - Sep 9, 2004 7:15 pm (#290 of 1297)
I think the following on the possible deaths of the Weasleys:
Ginny -- Nope. She's the only girl. Also, whether or not she's Harry's potential interest, Harry will need her.
Ron -- Nope. End of discussion.
Fred, George -- Nope. It's either both or neither. I think JKR wants us to like them and they are the comic relief. It is not a good move to kill the comic relief!
Percy -- Quite Possibly. He IS unsympathetic at the moment, so I only see a redemption in store prior to his demise. In my fanfic, he steps between an AK and Arthur.
Charlie -- Maybe. He has a dangerous job and we've hardly met him. JKR might do so just to keep both camps happy.
Bill -- Not likely. He has been portrayed as "cool" and he is the one who is the most responsible. As the oldest brother, his loss would leave a gaping hole.
Molly -- Maybe. She is very brave and constantly worries. She is the Weasley matriarch. Two of her male relatives (at least) were killed in VWI.
Arthur -- Quite possibly. He works at the Ministry, he loves Muggles, readers and characters like him, he is among Dumbledore's inner circle, he does dangerous work for the Order...He also has a large family that he has a duty to protect. I have him dying in my fanfic after Percy, as he tries to protect Molly from rushing to them.
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LooneyLuna - Sep 10, 2004 8:36 am (#291 of 1297)
As much as I would hate to read it (and I'll cry a river), I think Ron is going to die. He's going to sacrifice himself (just like in the Chess game in PS) so that Harry can go on. I also think Kingsley Shacklebolt and Moody will die. Moody because two or more DEs will gang up on him to take him out. As for other Weasleys, I think Percy and Arthur will die. I really fear for Hermione's parents. Malfoy Sr. knows what they look like. I can see them being kidnapped/tortured to draw Harry out.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 10, 2004 9:28 am (#292 of 1297)
If Percy dies it could possibly be to save some else. If this scenario occurs I think Percy will die to save Arthur or Molly.
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Kasse - Sep 10, 2004 11:42 am (#293 of 1297)
Matilda Jones - I will cry and throw things and have a fit like a child if any of them dies - I had to laugh at this statement because I feel the exact same way. Like I said before I am trying to prepare myself emotionally for the worst.
Star Crossed - Yes it would be dramatic if one twin dies and not the other but can you just imagine how the one left behind will feel? Just to read such emotion would be too much for me. If a Weasley twin is to die I would rather she take both than just one, that way they would still be together, behind the curtain or wherever wizards go when they die.
Twinkling Blue Eyes - I have always assumed that Nagini will die just like I assume Wormtail will die.
Czarina II - Ron -- Nope. End of discussion - Thank you for making me smile with joy and hope.
Looney Luna - I agree about Hermione's parents being taken and tortured, that sounds highly possible and Lucius would probably enjoy doing it.
Finally I want to go along with anyone and everyone who has said that they do not think that Arthur or Ginny will die. I have to agree after all they have both had near death experiences they should be safe now.
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Neville Longbottom - Sep 10, 2004 3:13 pm (#294 of 1297)
I think if Percy dies to save someone else, it will be Ron. I got the impression, that Percy likes him most of all his silblings, and there are some foundations laid that something big has to happen involving these two characters. But I still don't think she'll kill off Percy.
The two characters who I think are most likely to die in book 6 are Dumbledore and Seamus. Dumbledore because he has to go at one point, and Seamus because I have a bad feeling about him, and because he didn't join the DA until it was too late and therefore might not be skilled enough, to defend himself.
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Hermy-own - Sep 10, 2004 4:03 pm (#295 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
You raise an interesting point about Seamus. I suppose the same logic could be applied to Marietta "Traitor" Edgecombe.
I also think that Dumbledore has to go at one point. Well put, Neville.
*Hides from Pam*
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colbow - Sep 10, 2004 5:34 pm (#296 of 1297)
I really hope that Dumbledore,Harry and the Weasleys live to tell the tale , I really do. I can't help wondering how much more Harry can with stand as far as people he loves and cares end up dying?? Maybe Lupin or Moody will go, but I think book six maybe will be like PoA, with the explainations about who, what, and when. Then book seven , look out, that when all heck breaks loose, with wizards falling left and right. I just hope beyond all hope it's not HRH.
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Neville Longbottom - Sep 11, 2004 2:11 am (#297 of 1297)
I suppose the same logic could be applied to Marietta "Traitor" Edgecombe.
Not necessarily, because Marietta was there and probably learned a lot, even if she turned traitor in the end. On the other hand, of course none of the skills they learned are enough against Voldemort, but it still is better than nothing.
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Hermy-own - Sep 11, 2004 8:58 am (#298 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Let's make a couple of assumptions. Firstly, the DA meetings will continue in book 6, and secondly, Marietta will not attend these meetings.
I think more than one eyebrow would be raised if she eventually dies at the hand of Death Eaters. Many would wonder whether she would have been sufficiently skilled to defend herself had she not left the DA. Just as many would wonder, upon Seamus' death, whether he would have been sufficiently skilled to defend himself had he joined the DA earlier.
I can just imagine Ron saying, "Well, if she hadn't betrayed us and left, she would have known how to
Hope that makes sense.
Hermy.
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Good Evans - Sep 11, 2004 11:05 am (#299 of 1297)
Practically perfect in every way
I disagree with the earlier comment that JK may kill off Percy as he is an unsympathetic character, she killed off Sirius and we loved him. I dont think she works that way, I think that the more we love them the more at risk they are. Cedric we didnt love but didnt hate either, he was the first for necessary reasons, Sirius again was necessary (to leave harry alone again) but we desparately didnt want him to go. Percy may redeam himself adn could well die in saving ron or another character, but I wouldn't assume that he may be for the chop because we care less about him than the other Weasley's . If I misunderstood the post I apologise but I thought it needed saying.
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Choices - Sep 11, 2004 6:20 pm (#300 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Innocent people die in wars - that is rule # 1, sad as it may be. Rule #2 says that people can't change rule #1 no matter how much they want to. I think Cedric was the symbolic "innocent", and probably not the first or the last unfortunately. He wasn't actively involved in the fight against Voldemort that we know of - he really didn't know what he was getting into when he grabbed the Triwizard trophy with Harry and his life was snuffed out for no reason other than he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Voldemort wanted Harry and anyone else was excess baggage - expendable.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
Age : 52
Location : France
Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 301 to 350)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 10:47 am
The One - Sep 12, 2004 10:00 am (#301 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
When one human dies it is a tragedy, when 1000 dies it is statistics. I do not expect loads of important characters to bite the dust, simply because that would cause the effect of each death to diminish. I think that at most one of the most important remaining characters will die. The most important is Hermione, Ron, Dumbledore, Lupin, Hagrid, Arthur, Molly, Ginny, the twins (They might die together), Neville or Luna.
Harry is not counted, as he may or may not die independent of the rest. (My guess is he will not die.)
But war cost lifes, so some secondary good characters may die, like the more distant Weasly brothers, other teachers, other order members like Dung, Tonks, Kingsley, Moody etc, MoM workerd etc, and perhaps even other students.
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Kasse - Sep 12, 2004 10:02 am (#302 of 1297)
We all agree that Draco will die right?
Do you think that Ron will kill him? After all Ron has attacked Draco several times throughout the books (and with good reason) this could be foreshadowing.
There is a part in COS chapter 15 where after Draco says something about wishing that Hermione had been killed Ron says "Let me at hin, I do not care, I do not need my wand I am going to kill him with my bare hands - " The emphasis is mine
All I am saying is that mayber in the end Ron will be the one to take out Draco.
What do you think?
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Czarina II - Sep 12, 2004 11:09 am (#303 of 1297)
I definitely think there'll be a showdown in Bk7 between Ron and Draco. Ron killing Draco? Isn't there a worse punishment for Ferret Prince? Unless he joins the DEs, I think just killing him would be too easy. Permanently Transfiguring him into a ferret with no teeth would be better.
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The One - Sep 12, 2004 11:12 am (#304 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Or transfiguring him into a House Elf and assign him to the Burrow....
That should do the trick. Might even earn Ron an O in transfiguration NEWT's as an added bonus.
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Eponine - Sep 12, 2004 11:21 am (#305 of 1297)
Oh, I like that, The One. I think that could be a fitting punishment for him.
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KTO - Sep 12, 2004 5:42 pm (#306 of 1297)
It is my hope that none of the students kill other students, that if deaths are going to occur it will be adults killed by other adults or the DE's killed by members of DA's. Having Ron kill Draco would be inappropriate, the reality is Draco does not present a threat, he is all blunder and bluff no substance.
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Hermy-own - Sep 13, 2004 6:57 am (#307 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"Ron killing Draco? Isn't there a worse punishment for Ferret Prince?"
Now we all know Buckbeak likes ferrets...
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The One - Sep 13, 2004 7:23 am (#308 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Having Ron kill Draco would be inappropriate, the reality is Draco does not present a threat, he is all blunder and bluff no substance.
I agree. Ron killing Draco is revenge, not self defense.
(And so far Draco has done nothing that qualify for death penalty in any known legal system.)
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LooneyLuna - Sep 13, 2004 7:25 am (#309 of 1297)
Purely speculation, but I think Draco will end up saving either Ron's or Harry's life. Then that nasty old life debt will come into play (much like Snape and James Potter). What would be worse than death for Ron - being indebted to Draco Malfoy or vice versa.
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The One - Sep 13, 2004 7:40 am (#310 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Purely speculation, but I think Draco will end up saving either Ron's or Harry's life.
May feel for the overall tone(*) of the story is that Ron and/or Harry are more likely to save Draco than to be saved by him. Draco is a git and is likely to stay a git, but our heros will save him anyway.
Also purely speculation
(*) Hope this make sense in English..
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LooneyLuna - Sep 13, 2004 10:53 am (#311 of 1297)
Makes perfect sense, The One.
Draco may be a git, but he's not a dummy. I think that Draco will do whatever he needs to do to preserve himself and if that involves saving an enemy, he would do it. Could you imagine? Draco would be insufferable then.
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 13, 2004 3:28 pm (#312 of 1297)
I know I am probably going to be severely attacked for saying this, but did JKR ever explicitly state that Draco was completely irredeemable? I thought that Draco's conversion might be somehow the fulfillment of the hat's warning. All of the houses must be united including Slytherin. I had thought that Draco might be rather like Snape as a child (had Snape been popular). I could see Draco joining the DEs in HBP and turning spy in the last book leading to an eventual confrontation with his own father (who looks down on him and considers him weak). Of course, there is a possibility that I missed or forgot something JKR said in one of her interviews.
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Star Crossed - Sep 13, 2004 3:45 pm (#313 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
There is the fact JKR was ultimately disgusted when she saw kids dressing up as Draco. I took that to mean 'Ain't neva gonna happen.'
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total hatred - Sep 13, 2004 4:11 pm (#314 of 1297)
Come on, Ron has nothing to lose but his life if he dies. He loses his life but gets the object of his dreams; recognition and fame. Ron is seeking fame and recognition and even how much he try, he perceives that he never got it
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Star Crossed - Sep 13, 2004 4:18 pm (#315 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
...I don't even know how to respond to that, total hatred. Do you mean just because he likes a little attention so he should die so he can get it?
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total hatred - Sep 13, 2004 4:39 pm (#316 of 1297)
Simple. If he dies sacrificing himself to help Harry defeat Voldie, he will remembered as a hero. All of those who know him will remember of the good deeds he had done.
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LooneyLuna - Sep 13, 2004 5:58 pm (#317 of 1297)
Classicsquid - I agree with you - that PERHAPS Draco is redeemable. No attacks from me on that!
Personally, I don't think Ron would sacrifice himself to get glory. He would sacrifice himself if he thought that's what was needed for Harry to finish off Voldy.
To borrow a phrase from Twinkling Blue Eyes, "I'll be tottering off to St. Mungos now."
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Eponine - Sep 13, 2004 6:18 pm (#318 of 1297)
I agree with LooneyLuna. Ron would indeed sacrifice himself for Harry's sake, but not just so he can be remembered as a hero.
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KTO - Sep 14, 2004 11:04 am (#319 of 1297)
Ron is like Sam in LOTR, the reality is that Harry will not be able to complete his mission unless he has the help of Ron, Harry knows this and it is my hope that Ron learns it. Some of us are candles, who light the way and others are the ones who hold up the mirror to the flame, so that it can be seen, we need both.
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haymoni - Sep 14, 2004 11:13 am (#320 of 1297)
That was nice.
I don't know that I agree with it, but I like it.
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Steve Newton - Sep 16, 2004 9:32 am (#321 of 1297)
Librarian
I'm just finishing GOF again. I noticed that JKR went out of her way to mention that the death of Barty Jr. was the end of an old pure blood wizarding family, the Crouchs. In OOTP we see the end of the Blacks.
A recurring theme seems to be the end of pure blood families. I think that this means that the next two books will see the end of all of the Malfoys. I'm afraid to speculate on what it will mean to the Weasleys.
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haymoni - Sep 16, 2004 9:46 am (#322 of 1297)
Good Lord - the whole Weasley Family gone??? No! I refuse to believe it.
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tracie1976 - Sep 16, 2004 9:57 am (#323 of 1297)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Well, the whole Weasley family does make a little sense since I have at least four of them marked for death: Molly, Ron, Ginny, and Charlie.
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haymoni - Sep 16, 2004 10:08 am (#324 of 1297)
Actually, I can see Charlie - how he hasn't gotten trampled by Dragons yet is beyond me - but since he is in a different country, he's out in the wild - he just seems like an easy target.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 16, 2004 11:10 am (#325 of 1297)
There are several wizarding families that are extinct or are nearing extinction, the Black, the Potter, the Bones, the Longbottom, and the Dumbledore family. Each of these familes has less than five known surviving family members.
It is possible that one ot more of these old bloodlines could become extinct.
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Steve Newton - Sep 16, 2004 11:13 am (#326 of 1297)
Librarian
Nathan, thanks for the list. I see bad times for all of them. I can't believe that all of them will go, however. It can't happen, can it?
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Neville Longbottom - Sep 16, 2004 11:52 am (#327 of 1297)
You can add the Diggorys and the Lovegoods to that list. And the only known Dumbledores are already that old, that the family has to die out. (As far as we know, of course in theory both Albus and Aberforth could have children, grandchildren geat-grandchildren and great-great grandchildren). In fact, with the exception of the Weasleys every family we know has less than five members. But no, I don't think that the pure blood families will all die out. This seems to unrealistic for me. There's no way all the families will go. There are especially way to many Weasleys for all of them to die. Although I see a realistic possibility of both the Potters and the Longbottoms dieing out. She "just" has to kill Harry and Neville for this happen. But I don't think she will.
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haymoni - Sep 16, 2004 12:04 pm (#328 of 1297)
I said before that I thought Amos Diggory would die trying to avenge Cedric's death.
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total hatred - Sep 16, 2004 7:29 pm (#329 of 1297)
Longbottoms are not in the verge of extinction. There are more of them. I believe that Neville still has aunts and uncles. It not clear if they have children. The Blacks will only be extinct if Narcissa, Andromeda, Nymphadora, Bellatrix and Draco will die.
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Steve Newton - Sep 16, 2004 8:38 pm (#330 of 1297)
Librarian
Total, well Nigelus certainly said that it was the end of the Blacks.
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Czarina II - Sep 17, 2004 10:25 am (#331 of 1297)
Narcissa could be considered a Black, but Draco is a Malfoy.
Andromeda has been disowned, so both she and her daughter are Tonkses.
Bellatrix could also be a Black, but she is a Lestrange primarily. That is how patriarchy works.
Sirius was the last of the Blacks, because the other members of the family are not surnamed Black. The "Blacks" are extinct. That doesn't mean that their genetic code is gone. If one believes in evolution, the first humanoids are all extinct. Their descendants are not.
Following, Draco Malfoy could claim inheritance of the Black estate, since he is a descendant (and the only male one) of the Blacks. In the line of primogeniture, he would in fact inherit the estate. Nymphadora Tonks could challenge him, but being disowned would hurt her chances.
Neither of them are Blacks, however.
I think the death of families such as the Crouches and the Blacks are paving the way for change in the wizarding world. I think the Malfoys will be finished at the end of the series too. Meanwhile, families like the Weasleys and the Potters will survive quite nicely -- particularly the prolific Weasleys. They will rise to positions of power after the fall of Voldemort.
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ex-FAHgeek - Sep 17, 2004 11:29 am (#332 of 1297)
It is interesting to consider who the remaining pure-blood families are. We will probably never know all the details of just how they are interelated, but we can probably find some connection for each family. I'll be sticking with the British Isle families below.
Family Name: Known Surviving Members
The Malfoys - Lucius, Draco, Narcissa née Black The Weasleys - Arthur, Bill, Charlie, Percy, Fred, George, Ronald, Ginevra, Molly née Prewett The Longbottoms - Neville, Frank (indisposed), Alice née ? (indisposed), "Gran" née ? (unknown whether Uncle Algie is a Longbottom or simply related to the family; either way, he's probably a pure-blood) The MacMillans - Ernie The Lestranges - Rudolphus, Rabastan, Bellatrix née Black The Crabbes - Vincent Sr., Vincent Jr. The Goyles - Gregory Sr., Gregory Jr. The Snapes - Severus The Notts - Theodore, Teddy Sr. The Rookwoods - Augustus The Crouches - extinct The MacNairs - ? The Dolohovs - Antonin
Andromeda Tonks née Black is a pure-blood, but her daughter (and any other children she may have by Ted Tonks) are not. It is unknown whether there are any surviving Prewetts besides Molly or any surviving members of the Nigellus clan.
There are a few other British Isle families that are very likely candidates for pure-blood lines (the Fudges, the Diggorys, the Bones, the Umbridges, the Parkinsons, etc.) as well as many for which we couldn't possibly be sure.
Well, most of the Death Eaters will probably be killed or otherwise indisposed (either imprisoned or unable to show their faces in public ever again) by the end of the series, so the number of pure-bloods above could be cut down even farther. If their kids are taken out as well (Draco, Vincent, Gregory, and Theodore) for whatever reason, we have the following as surviving pure-blood families:
The Weasleys, the Longbottoms, the MacMillans. The Weasleys are likely to suffer losses, and Neville's survival could be in question (not to mention the fact that his parents have already been essentially taken out.)
Therefore, congratulations are in order for Ernie MacMillan! Your family will be the only intact family of pure-bloods in the (British-Irish) wizarding world at the end of VWII.
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Steve Newton - Sep 17, 2004 11:41 am (#333 of 1297)
Librarian
"Therefore, congratulations are in order for Ernie MacMillan!"
Wow, this almost seems like fodder for another thread on the forum. But, I'm not taking it there.
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Neville Longbottom - Sep 17, 2004 11:56 am (#334 of 1297)
The thing is, that I think Ernie's survival isn't all that sure. At least I don't think it's more likely than the survival of any of the othr kids. My theory is that Hogwarts will be attacked in book 7, and if this happens, every Hogwarts student is a possible victim. Therefore we better don't congratulate Ernie to soon. ;-)
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total hatred - Sep 17, 2004 3:32 pm (#335 of 1297)
I agree. What if he dies, it can be good bye to Mac Millan clan
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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 17, 2004 3:34 pm (#336 of 1297)
I would extend the question about Neville's survival to include Gran Longbottom as well because, she is a close friend of Albus Dumbledore and Griselda Marchbanks because, this affliation may be enough make her a target.
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Amilia Smith - Sep 17, 2004 4:10 pm (#337 of 1297)
Would the Potters still be considered a pure-blood family as Lily was muggle-born, and Harry, the only remaining member of the family, is a half-blood?
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total hatred - Sep 17, 2004 11:08 pm (#338 of 1297)
What nags me is the fact the some muggle develop magical powers. I thought Muggles are incapable of magic. I think all the Muggle borns descended from pureblood. Due to various circumstances, they have left the Wizard world and live in the Muggle World. Citing the Law of Genetics, not all of their offsprings have magicals since having magical powers is a recessive trait.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Sep 18, 2004 11:33 am (#339 of 1297)
No day but Today
I agree total hatred. I think there has to be pure magical blood in the blood of muggle borns somewhere, in order to get their powers.
Now, here is a question: The Granger's. They never seemed angry or dissapointed that Hermione was a witch. They were scared, yes, but I believe it was because they didn't know much about the WW or what to expect. It could be because they are un-predjudiced, accepting people, but could it be that someone in her family has magical bood?
We do not know about the Grangers family history, but maybe there is a grandparent or great-granparent who is magical. Which pure blood family could she be related to?
Feel free to throw things at me, but please let them be soft things.
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Hermy-own - Sep 19, 2004 3:25 am (#340 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Careful what you wish for - dungbombs are soft...
Actually, I agree with the point you make, Matidla. I'd like to know more about the Grangers and I hope we see more of them in HBP - something tells me they could be targeted by DE's.
Oh, and for the record, I don't they (or Hermione) will die. (I finally got in something relevant to this thread)
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 19, 2004 12:08 pm (#341 of 1297)
Remember, the Weasleys have a set of cousins who are muggles, not squibs but muggles. I'm certain that many of the other pure-blood families have muggle relatives that they never mention.
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Cuivienen - Sep 19, 2004 12:16 pm (#342 of 1297)
We don't know that the non-magic relative isn't a Squib. He's an accountant according to Ron, but that doesn't rule out him being a Squib who turned his back on the magic world.
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Star Crossed - Sep 20, 2004 6:12 pm (#343 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't think you have to have magic in your blood to get magic. To me, it seems like regular genetics. For examples, my father has black hair and my mother has brown hair. Somehow, I recieved a sort of brown colour, but it's more like blonde hair. My friend has a friend whose whole family has blonde hair, but he has red hair. I just think that it's a random thing.
Or maybe we're all wrong and we just have to concentrate really hard on parental units yelling at us so we can do magic.
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 20, 2004 8:02 pm (#344 of 1297)
Maybe we should move this discussion to the muggle genetics thread. This whole discussion has raised alot of questions about muggle/wizarding genetics but I hesitate to ask any of them because it would bring us even further off topic.
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Chad Peters - Sep 23, 2004 6:58 pm (#345 of 1297)
But, I think we covered earlier that a squib is basically a muggle born to a pair of wizard parents. Kwik spell supposedly helps them, so I wonder if that's something of a hint as to how a muggle will learn magic.
There's a few things that's nagging at my mind though. One of them is a rather offhanded thing that Jo said in an interview some time ago. When asked if she'd write a book 8, she said "how do you know he'll live after the series? How do you know I'm not really some mean person who'll kill him off?" (that's paraphrased).
I have to think, that Harry will probably die, Taking voldy with him in some great heroic act. I also have slated Luna for death because well, she really didn't bring much to the series other than someone harry could pity.
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Hermy-own - Sep 23, 2004 7:58 pm (#346 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"[Luna] really didn't bring much to the series other than someone harry could pity."
I respectfully disagree.
Unfortunately, I am not able to expand on my opinions here; this is not the appropriate thread for a discussion concerning Luna.
However, my thoughts on this subject can be found here, or here.
Oh, and here's another one.
Hermy.
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Greaves - Sep 30, 2004 12:55 pm (#347 of 1297)
Percy Weasley will most probably die I think he will try return to the order and apologise to his parents and family but will be killed just before by certain DE's.
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haymoni - Sep 30, 2004 12:57 pm (#348 of 1297)
Ultimate redemption - I could see it.
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total hatred - Oct 2, 2004 4:39 pm (#349 of 1297)
That is possible but that logic is flawed. How come Percy return to the Order when he was never been a member
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 2, 2004 5:37 pm (#350 of 1297)
I think that they mean he will try to return to his family by trying to become an order member. The wording, not the logic is flawed.
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Open minded sceptic
When one human dies it is a tragedy, when 1000 dies it is statistics. I do not expect loads of important characters to bite the dust, simply because that would cause the effect of each death to diminish. I think that at most one of the most important remaining characters will die. The most important is Hermione, Ron, Dumbledore, Lupin, Hagrid, Arthur, Molly, Ginny, the twins (They might die together), Neville or Luna.
Harry is not counted, as he may or may not die independent of the rest. (My guess is he will not die.)
But war cost lifes, so some secondary good characters may die, like the more distant Weasly brothers, other teachers, other order members like Dung, Tonks, Kingsley, Moody etc, MoM workerd etc, and perhaps even other students.
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Kasse - Sep 12, 2004 10:02 am (#302 of 1297)
We all agree that Draco will die right?
Do you think that Ron will kill him? After all Ron has attacked Draco several times throughout the books (and with good reason) this could be foreshadowing.
There is a part in COS chapter 15 where after Draco says something about wishing that Hermione had been killed Ron says "Let me at hin, I do not care, I do not need my wand I am going to kill him with my bare hands - " The emphasis is mine
All I am saying is that mayber in the end Ron will be the one to take out Draco.
What do you think?
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Czarina II - Sep 12, 2004 11:09 am (#303 of 1297)
I definitely think there'll be a showdown in Bk7 between Ron and Draco. Ron killing Draco? Isn't there a worse punishment for Ferret Prince? Unless he joins the DEs, I think just killing him would be too easy. Permanently Transfiguring him into a ferret with no teeth would be better.
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The One - Sep 12, 2004 11:12 am (#304 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Or transfiguring him into a House Elf and assign him to the Burrow....
That should do the trick. Might even earn Ron an O in transfiguration NEWT's as an added bonus.
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Eponine - Sep 12, 2004 11:21 am (#305 of 1297)
Oh, I like that, The One. I think that could be a fitting punishment for him.
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KTO - Sep 12, 2004 5:42 pm (#306 of 1297)
It is my hope that none of the students kill other students, that if deaths are going to occur it will be adults killed by other adults or the DE's killed by members of DA's. Having Ron kill Draco would be inappropriate, the reality is Draco does not present a threat, he is all blunder and bluff no substance.
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Hermy-own - Sep 13, 2004 6:57 am (#307 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"Ron killing Draco? Isn't there a worse punishment for Ferret Prince?"
Now we all know Buckbeak likes ferrets...
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The One - Sep 13, 2004 7:23 am (#308 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Having Ron kill Draco would be inappropriate, the reality is Draco does not present a threat, he is all blunder and bluff no substance.
I agree. Ron killing Draco is revenge, not self defense.
(And so far Draco has done nothing that qualify for death penalty in any known legal system.)
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LooneyLuna - Sep 13, 2004 7:25 am (#309 of 1297)
Purely speculation, but I think Draco will end up saving either Ron's or Harry's life. Then that nasty old life debt will come into play (much like Snape and James Potter). What would be worse than death for Ron - being indebted to Draco Malfoy or vice versa.
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The One - Sep 13, 2004 7:40 am (#310 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Purely speculation, but I think Draco will end up saving either Ron's or Harry's life.
May feel for the overall tone(*) of the story is that Ron and/or Harry are more likely to save Draco than to be saved by him. Draco is a git and is likely to stay a git, but our heros will save him anyway.
Also purely speculation
(*) Hope this make sense in English..
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LooneyLuna - Sep 13, 2004 10:53 am (#311 of 1297)
Makes perfect sense, The One.
Draco may be a git, but he's not a dummy. I think that Draco will do whatever he needs to do to preserve himself and if that involves saving an enemy, he would do it. Could you imagine? Draco would be insufferable then.
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 13, 2004 3:28 pm (#312 of 1297)
I know I am probably going to be severely attacked for saying this, but did JKR ever explicitly state that Draco was completely irredeemable? I thought that Draco's conversion might be somehow the fulfillment of the hat's warning. All of the houses must be united including Slytherin. I had thought that Draco might be rather like Snape as a child (had Snape been popular). I could see Draco joining the DEs in HBP and turning spy in the last book leading to an eventual confrontation with his own father (who looks down on him and considers him weak). Of course, there is a possibility that I missed or forgot something JKR said in one of her interviews.
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Star Crossed - Sep 13, 2004 3:45 pm (#313 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
There is the fact JKR was ultimately disgusted when she saw kids dressing up as Draco. I took that to mean 'Ain't neva gonna happen.'
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total hatred - Sep 13, 2004 4:11 pm (#314 of 1297)
Come on, Ron has nothing to lose but his life if he dies. He loses his life but gets the object of his dreams; recognition and fame. Ron is seeking fame and recognition and even how much he try, he perceives that he never got it
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Star Crossed - Sep 13, 2004 4:18 pm (#315 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
...I don't even know how to respond to that, total hatred. Do you mean just because he likes a little attention so he should die so he can get it?
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total hatred - Sep 13, 2004 4:39 pm (#316 of 1297)
Simple. If he dies sacrificing himself to help Harry defeat Voldie, he will remembered as a hero. All of those who know him will remember of the good deeds he had done.
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LooneyLuna - Sep 13, 2004 5:58 pm (#317 of 1297)
Classicsquid - I agree with you - that PERHAPS Draco is redeemable. No attacks from me on that!
Personally, I don't think Ron would sacrifice himself to get glory. He would sacrifice himself if he thought that's what was needed for Harry to finish off Voldy.
To borrow a phrase from Twinkling Blue Eyes, "I'll be tottering off to St. Mungos now."
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Eponine - Sep 13, 2004 6:18 pm (#318 of 1297)
I agree with LooneyLuna. Ron would indeed sacrifice himself for Harry's sake, but not just so he can be remembered as a hero.
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KTO - Sep 14, 2004 11:04 am (#319 of 1297)
Ron is like Sam in LOTR, the reality is that Harry will not be able to complete his mission unless he has the help of Ron, Harry knows this and it is my hope that Ron learns it. Some of us are candles, who light the way and others are the ones who hold up the mirror to the flame, so that it can be seen, we need both.
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haymoni - Sep 14, 2004 11:13 am (#320 of 1297)
That was nice.
I don't know that I agree with it, but I like it.
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Steve Newton - Sep 16, 2004 9:32 am (#321 of 1297)
Librarian
I'm just finishing GOF again. I noticed that JKR went out of her way to mention that the death of Barty Jr. was the end of an old pure blood wizarding family, the Crouchs. In OOTP we see the end of the Blacks.
A recurring theme seems to be the end of pure blood families. I think that this means that the next two books will see the end of all of the Malfoys. I'm afraid to speculate on what it will mean to the Weasleys.
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haymoni - Sep 16, 2004 9:46 am (#322 of 1297)
Good Lord - the whole Weasley Family gone??? No! I refuse to believe it.
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tracie1976 - Sep 16, 2004 9:57 am (#323 of 1297)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Well, the whole Weasley family does make a little sense since I have at least four of them marked for death: Molly, Ron, Ginny, and Charlie.
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haymoni - Sep 16, 2004 10:08 am (#324 of 1297)
Actually, I can see Charlie - how he hasn't gotten trampled by Dragons yet is beyond me - but since he is in a different country, he's out in the wild - he just seems like an easy target.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 16, 2004 11:10 am (#325 of 1297)
There are several wizarding families that are extinct or are nearing extinction, the Black, the Potter, the Bones, the Longbottom, and the Dumbledore family. Each of these familes has less than five known surviving family members.
It is possible that one ot more of these old bloodlines could become extinct.
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Steve Newton - Sep 16, 2004 11:13 am (#326 of 1297)
Librarian
Nathan, thanks for the list. I see bad times for all of them. I can't believe that all of them will go, however. It can't happen, can it?
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Neville Longbottom - Sep 16, 2004 11:52 am (#327 of 1297)
You can add the Diggorys and the Lovegoods to that list. And the only known Dumbledores are already that old, that the family has to die out. (As far as we know, of course in theory both Albus and Aberforth could have children, grandchildren geat-grandchildren and great-great grandchildren). In fact, with the exception of the Weasleys every family we know has less than five members. But no, I don't think that the pure blood families will all die out. This seems to unrealistic for me. There's no way all the families will go. There are especially way to many Weasleys for all of them to die. Although I see a realistic possibility of both the Potters and the Longbottoms dieing out. She "just" has to kill Harry and Neville for this happen. But I don't think she will.
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haymoni - Sep 16, 2004 12:04 pm (#328 of 1297)
I said before that I thought Amos Diggory would die trying to avenge Cedric's death.
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total hatred - Sep 16, 2004 7:29 pm (#329 of 1297)
Longbottoms are not in the verge of extinction. There are more of them. I believe that Neville still has aunts and uncles. It not clear if they have children. The Blacks will only be extinct if Narcissa, Andromeda, Nymphadora, Bellatrix and Draco will die.
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Steve Newton - Sep 16, 2004 8:38 pm (#330 of 1297)
Librarian
Total, well Nigelus certainly said that it was the end of the Blacks.
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Czarina II - Sep 17, 2004 10:25 am (#331 of 1297)
Narcissa could be considered a Black, but Draco is a Malfoy.
Andromeda has been disowned, so both she and her daughter are Tonkses.
Bellatrix could also be a Black, but she is a Lestrange primarily. That is how patriarchy works.
Sirius was the last of the Blacks, because the other members of the family are not surnamed Black. The "Blacks" are extinct. That doesn't mean that their genetic code is gone. If one believes in evolution, the first humanoids are all extinct. Their descendants are not.
Following, Draco Malfoy could claim inheritance of the Black estate, since he is a descendant (and the only male one) of the Blacks. In the line of primogeniture, he would in fact inherit the estate. Nymphadora Tonks could challenge him, but being disowned would hurt her chances.
Neither of them are Blacks, however.
I think the death of families such as the Crouches and the Blacks are paving the way for change in the wizarding world. I think the Malfoys will be finished at the end of the series too. Meanwhile, families like the Weasleys and the Potters will survive quite nicely -- particularly the prolific Weasleys. They will rise to positions of power after the fall of Voldemort.
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ex-FAHgeek - Sep 17, 2004 11:29 am (#332 of 1297)
It is interesting to consider who the remaining pure-blood families are. We will probably never know all the details of just how they are interelated, but we can probably find some connection for each family. I'll be sticking with the British Isle families below.
Family Name: Known Surviving Members
The Malfoys - Lucius, Draco, Narcissa née Black The Weasleys - Arthur, Bill, Charlie, Percy, Fred, George, Ronald, Ginevra, Molly née Prewett The Longbottoms - Neville, Frank (indisposed), Alice née ? (indisposed), "Gran" née ? (unknown whether Uncle Algie is a Longbottom or simply related to the family; either way, he's probably a pure-blood) The MacMillans - Ernie The Lestranges - Rudolphus, Rabastan, Bellatrix née Black The Crabbes - Vincent Sr., Vincent Jr. The Goyles - Gregory Sr., Gregory Jr. The Snapes - Severus The Notts - Theodore, Teddy Sr. The Rookwoods - Augustus The Crouches - extinct The MacNairs - ? The Dolohovs - Antonin
Andromeda Tonks née Black is a pure-blood, but her daughter (and any other children she may have by Ted Tonks) are not. It is unknown whether there are any surviving Prewetts besides Molly or any surviving members of the Nigellus clan.
There are a few other British Isle families that are very likely candidates for pure-blood lines (the Fudges, the Diggorys, the Bones, the Umbridges, the Parkinsons, etc.) as well as many for which we couldn't possibly be sure.
Well, most of the Death Eaters will probably be killed or otherwise indisposed (either imprisoned or unable to show their faces in public ever again) by the end of the series, so the number of pure-bloods above could be cut down even farther. If their kids are taken out as well (Draco, Vincent, Gregory, and Theodore) for whatever reason, we have the following as surviving pure-blood families:
The Weasleys, the Longbottoms, the MacMillans. The Weasleys are likely to suffer losses, and Neville's survival could be in question (not to mention the fact that his parents have already been essentially taken out.)
Therefore, congratulations are in order for Ernie MacMillan! Your family will be the only intact family of pure-bloods in the (British-Irish) wizarding world at the end of VWII.
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Steve Newton - Sep 17, 2004 11:41 am (#333 of 1297)
Librarian
"Therefore, congratulations are in order for Ernie MacMillan!"
Wow, this almost seems like fodder for another thread on the forum. But, I'm not taking it there.
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Neville Longbottom - Sep 17, 2004 11:56 am (#334 of 1297)
The thing is, that I think Ernie's survival isn't all that sure. At least I don't think it's more likely than the survival of any of the othr kids. My theory is that Hogwarts will be attacked in book 7, and if this happens, every Hogwarts student is a possible victim. Therefore we better don't congratulate Ernie to soon. ;-)
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total hatred - Sep 17, 2004 3:32 pm (#335 of 1297)
I agree. What if he dies, it can be good bye to Mac Millan clan
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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 17, 2004 3:34 pm (#336 of 1297)
I would extend the question about Neville's survival to include Gran Longbottom as well because, she is a close friend of Albus Dumbledore and Griselda Marchbanks because, this affliation may be enough make her a target.
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Amilia Smith - Sep 17, 2004 4:10 pm (#337 of 1297)
Would the Potters still be considered a pure-blood family as Lily was muggle-born, and Harry, the only remaining member of the family, is a half-blood?
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total hatred - Sep 17, 2004 11:08 pm (#338 of 1297)
What nags me is the fact the some muggle develop magical powers. I thought Muggles are incapable of magic. I think all the Muggle borns descended from pureblood. Due to various circumstances, they have left the Wizard world and live in the Muggle World. Citing the Law of Genetics, not all of their offsprings have magicals since having magical powers is a recessive trait.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Sep 18, 2004 11:33 am (#339 of 1297)
No day but Today
I agree total hatred. I think there has to be pure magical blood in the blood of muggle borns somewhere, in order to get their powers.
Now, here is a question: The Granger's. They never seemed angry or dissapointed that Hermione was a witch. They were scared, yes, but I believe it was because they didn't know much about the WW or what to expect. It could be because they are un-predjudiced, accepting people, but could it be that someone in her family has magical bood?
We do not know about the Grangers family history, but maybe there is a grandparent or great-granparent who is magical. Which pure blood family could she be related to?
Feel free to throw things at me, but please let them be soft things.
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Hermy-own - Sep 19, 2004 3:25 am (#340 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Careful what you wish for - dungbombs are soft...
Actually, I agree with the point you make, Matidla. I'd like to know more about the Grangers and I hope we see more of them in HBP - something tells me they could be targeted by DE's.
Oh, and for the record, I don't they (or Hermione) will die. (I finally got in something relevant to this thread)
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 19, 2004 12:08 pm (#341 of 1297)
Remember, the Weasleys have a set of cousins who are muggles, not squibs but muggles. I'm certain that many of the other pure-blood families have muggle relatives that they never mention.
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Cuivienen - Sep 19, 2004 12:16 pm (#342 of 1297)
We don't know that the non-magic relative isn't a Squib. He's an accountant according to Ron, but that doesn't rule out him being a Squib who turned his back on the magic world.
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Star Crossed - Sep 20, 2004 6:12 pm (#343 of 1297)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't think you have to have magic in your blood to get magic. To me, it seems like regular genetics. For examples, my father has black hair and my mother has brown hair. Somehow, I recieved a sort of brown colour, but it's more like blonde hair. My friend has a friend whose whole family has blonde hair, but he has red hair. I just think that it's a random thing.
Or maybe we're all wrong and we just have to concentrate really hard on parental units yelling at us so we can do magic.
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 20, 2004 8:02 pm (#344 of 1297)
Maybe we should move this discussion to the muggle genetics thread. This whole discussion has raised alot of questions about muggle/wizarding genetics but I hesitate to ask any of them because it would bring us even further off topic.
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Chad Peters - Sep 23, 2004 6:58 pm (#345 of 1297)
But, I think we covered earlier that a squib is basically a muggle born to a pair of wizard parents. Kwik spell supposedly helps them, so I wonder if that's something of a hint as to how a muggle will learn magic.
There's a few things that's nagging at my mind though. One of them is a rather offhanded thing that Jo said in an interview some time ago. When asked if she'd write a book 8, she said "how do you know he'll live after the series? How do you know I'm not really some mean person who'll kill him off?" (that's paraphrased).
I have to think, that Harry will probably die, Taking voldy with him in some great heroic act. I also have slated Luna for death because well, she really didn't bring much to the series other than someone harry could pity.
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Hermy-own - Sep 23, 2004 7:58 pm (#346 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"[Luna] really didn't bring much to the series other than someone harry could pity."
I respectfully disagree.
Unfortunately, I am not able to expand on my opinions here; this is not the appropriate thread for a discussion concerning Luna.
However, my thoughts on this subject can be found here, or here.
Oh, and here's another one.
Hermy.
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Greaves - Sep 30, 2004 12:55 pm (#347 of 1297)
Percy Weasley will most probably die I think he will try return to the order and apologise to his parents and family but will be killed just before by certain DE's.
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haymoni - Sep 30, 2004 12:57 pm (#348 of 1297)
Ultimate redemption - I could see it.
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total hatred - Oct 2, 2004 4:39 pm (#349 of 1297)
That is possible but that logic is flawed. How come Percy return to the Order when he was never been a member
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 2, 2004 5:37 pm (#350 of 1297)
I think that they mean he will try to return to his family by trying to become an order member. The wording, not the logic is flawed.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 351 to 400)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 10:47 am
total hatred - Oct 4, 2004 3:26 am (#351 of 1297)
I don't mean the redemption. What I am questioning is Percy returning to the Order
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Hermy-own - Oct 4, 2004 10:11 am (#352 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"What I am questioning is Percy returning to the Order"
Strictly speaking, Percy cannot return to The Order; he has never been a member. What he can do, however, is choose to return to his family and join The Order, and this, I believe, is what Greaves tries to convey in his/her post. As Classicsquid correctly says: the wording, not the logic, is flawed.
I hope that clears things up.
Hermy.
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legolas - Oct 4, 2004 11:29 am (#353 of 1297)
JKR has said in todays update that more people will die in the last two books. I cant imagine that she was talking about minor characters because that would not advance the plot much further in terms of Story telling. So I imagine that some members of the Order will die.
I would be most upset if it was Lupin because I think he has a very important role with helping Harry to grieve. In addition the man has had a hard life and is one of the most compasionate and lovable characters in the book.
I think it would be "interesting" if it was a Weasley. I would hate to see any of them suffer. I wonder how Percy would react-whether it would be a "told you so-dont associate with such dangerous people" or whether he would come back to the family.
I am not sure how easy it would be to kill Hagrid.
If Dumbledore was killed before book 7 it would be a bit to Starwarslike. There would be nobody to explain what had happend at the end of the book.
Snape? We would probably find out more about him as a character if this was to happen. He is a character that we love to hate. What would his death mean to Harry?
So I guess that I am splitting my vote between a Weasley (probably Arthur) or Snape.
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The One - Oct 4, 2004 3:08 pm (#354 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
So I guess that I am splitting my vote between a Weasley (probably Arthur) or Snape
I don't know about Snape. I have a feeling that he will survive. He will not betray Dumbledore, he will not redeem himself by dying for the case, he will just work faithful to Dumbledore case, continue to be nasty, almost evil, and stay a git on the right side.
If one of the Weasleys bits the dust, what about Molly? The cornerstone of the family, fearing for everyone but herself, and usually not in the fire line, as far as we know, what if she is to die? Poor Molly, leaving her husband and children behind, the conflict with Percy unresolved.
That may very well happen.
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total hatred - Oct 4, 2004 3:26 pm (#355 of 1297)
I think Lupin might die. Killing him will give Harry more motivation to get more serious. I am considering one of the Weasley might die, either Percy, Arthur or Molly. Killing Arthur or Molly will greatly motivate the children to more zealous in defeating Voldie.
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Hollywand - Oct 4, 2004 4:42 pm (#356 of 1297)
Gryffindor
I am hoping we get a lot of historical deaths, for example, James, Lily, lots of their associates. Lots of meaningful historical deaths that aid Harry in discovering his personal history, but have already occured.
I am betting the 4 Privet Drive is a pun on the destruction of self for Harry's personal advancement, (the destruction of the private drives) and so the Dursleys will meet their end courtesy of Lord Voldemort.
Then Peter Pettigrew in a flash of instant karma, Bellatrix, Lucius, Kreacher and Draco. Oh, forgot Vol de Mort.
Hasta le bye bye meanies. ;-)
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From Venus - Oct 4, 2004 11:03 pm (#357 of 1297)
Less than three months to HBP!!!!
Jo's two-word answer to the "more deaths" question, namely "Yes, sorry" leads me to think that at least a couple of the deaths are going to hurt. So "bad guy" deaths, like LV or PP are not what worry me, but the possibility of losing someone we love.
I really don't think one of the trio will die. I don't think she would do that, I do think there is a possibility that we will lose Ron to something other than death for a while, though.
I see a strong possibility of losing Hagrid. I know he would be hard to kill, but I can see him stepping in somehow to save someone else. I don't think size matters against that wicked green bolt of light.
I also think a Weasley will be lost, seeing as how there are so many of them and they are so courageous. My first guess would be Percy, since he has to prove himself in a big way.
But I just really really REALLY can't see it being Ron or Hermione or Harry. I don't know if that's because I would be HORRIFIED if it was, or because I truly believe it wouldn't work in the story.
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 4, 2004 11:53 pm (#358 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
Actually, I am starting to warm up to the possibility that it might be Ron or Hermione. If they are meant for each other, then the loss of one, would be devestate the other.
My money is on Hermione buying it, though it wouldn't surprise me if it is Ron.
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The One - Oct 5, 2004 2:35 am (#359 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
I used to (and still do) think that Hermione is safe, Harry needs her too much. But that will of course make her a prime target.
LV already attacked Harry via Sirius, he is gone, Hermione next?
But deep in my heart I do believe that the story is about hope, love and a happy ending. A happy ending paid for by blood and tears, but still a happy ending. The kids and the trio friendship will survive whatever fate and JKR throw their way.
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Hollywand - Oct 5, 2004 5:08 am (#360 of 1297)
Gryffindor
It seems to me that reading about the death of Harry's parents, and possibly grandparents would be plenty sad, as the destruction of significant characters.
Harry and Hermione seems to me to be bound as one in the series, that the sturm und drang between Hermione and Ron is meant to distract the reader.
I will be surprised if she kills one of the trio.
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From Venus - Oct 5, 2004 7:28 am (#361 of 1297)
Less than three months to HBP!!!!
The more I think about it, (though it hurts to think about any of these characters dying, they have become so real to me), I'm thinking that Snape is going to die. And I think it's going to happen as he's saving someone's life. I think that Harry and Draco are going to be witness to this, which is going to cause them both to rethink a lot of stuff. I think that Harry will realize, too late, that he could have had an ally in Snape. And I think it will cause Malfoy to look again at where his loyalties lie.
I still can't believe that Jo would kill one of the Trio. There's just no way. Nope, it can't happen. Nope, definitley no.
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JackO - Oct 5, 2004 9:32 am (#362 of 1297)
It would hurt so bad to lose on of the trio...
Of the Weasleys, I think that if someone dies it might be Arthur. I'm sure if it happened Percy would regret very much that he didn't sort it all out with his dad. Then Percy could return to the family. But any death hurts so much...
Sirius was always my favorite except for Harry, and if you told me he was going to snuff it I would NEVER have believed you. So I'm not going to rush and say that someone won't die but..
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mike miller - Oct 5, 2004 10:56 am (#363 of 1297)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
I agree with Venus that Percy, in a valiant effort to redeem himself, will not see the end of book 7.
I truly hope the trio remains intact. Although, I am really concerned for Remus (and Peter) since the complete loss of the Maraunders could balance out the trio's survival.
DD is also a prime target as are any one of the Order memebers. If death strikes the Order is will probably be Moody first, then Remus.
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muggle born - Oct 5, 2004 12:47 pm (#364 of 1297)
I hope it isn't Tonks or Fred or George. Dumbledore seems the most likely. Maybe Voldemort will make Harry kill him, In the last book When Harry looked at Dumbledore he felt a strong urge to attack him. I can't remember exactly what was going on at the time but it could happen.
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TomProffitt - Oct 5, 2004 3:42 pm (#365 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
The only character who's death in book 6 that would surprise me is Harry.
I don't think Jo will be content in only killing supporting characters like Percy, Seamus, Dean or Parvati. If she's going to put in a death she will want us to feel it. We should expect the death of a major character like Molly, Ginny, Snape, Remus, or Tonks. We should not be surprised if Ron or Hermione has to go. Jo has made no bones about it, it's war, and war isn't pretty.
Someone we love will die.
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 5, 2004 3:48 pm (#366 of 1297)
That is a frightening prospect Mudblood, and I think that it is entirely possible. If Harry were to kill DD, what would that do to his credibility during the coming war? If some of my predictions were accurate, the next two books would become a complete mess. Harry as a war-time leader whom nobody trusts and half the wizarding world thinks is somehow in league with the dark lord. The dark lord now has an even greater advantage in the war.
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timrew - Oct 5, 2004 3:55 pm (#367 of 1297)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Classicsquid592: If Harry were to kill DD, what would that do to his credibility during the coming war?
I think Harry only had the urge to kill DD when he was 'possessed' by Voldemort. As he learns Occlumency more this urge will subside.....
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HPHouse - Oct 5, 2004 4:06 pm (#368 of 1297)
This thought of Voldemort possessing Harry and having Harry kill Dumbledore would make for an interesting and disturbing plot twist. However, I think that this is unlikely because in the fifth book, Dumbledore was on his guard when Harry was around for just this reason. And also Voldemort would be unable to do the Avada Kedavra curse through Harry because Harry's heart would not be in performing the curse and to do an unforgivable curse a person's heart would have to be in it.
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 5, 2004 6:49 pm (#369 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
I'm going to make it offical. I think Hermione is going to die before the series is over.
First of all, for maximum impact, Rowling has to kill off one of the trio.
I don't think it will be Harry. A number of things convince me of this. He is the hero. If he sacrifices himself to kill Voldemort, it will be a hollow victory. Rowling does not appear to be writing a tragedy where everybody in sight dies.
Why not Ron? The first reason is because it is a huge cliche that the hero's best friend dies. Even Rowling has commented upon it a number of times. She usually comments on things that she isn't going to do.
Ron soon won't even be the best friend. When he and Hermione "get it on", Harry is going to be the odd-man out.
Why Hermione? There are a number of reasons. First there is cold-blooded romance. The Hero is supposed to get the strongest girl. Hermione is the strongest girl in the series. However, Hermione and Ron are meant for each other. Therefore another girl needs to take the place of Hermione in the series. If Hermione gets killed off, her place is available for another.
There is also the traditional quest motiff of the hero's mentor dying before the final showdown. This allows the hero to obtain a total triumph. Now ask youself, which person has helped Harry the most to become the lean, mean, Dark Arts fighting machine that he is today? It isn't Dumbledore -- not a chance. He and Harry hardly ever interact except at the end of each book. The person who helps Harry the most is Hermione. So while most people assume the mentor role is played by Dumbledore, in actuality Rowling is using Hermione for that job. (The Red Herring Master at work again.) So Hermione has to die.
It would not surprise me if Hermione dies in HBP. Her death, as a muggle-born, will seal Harry's determination to take out the evil that is Voldemort once and for all.
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Grimber - Oct 5, 2004 10:26 pm (#370 of 1297)
I think if any character to die that would have the biggest devistating impact on Harry and his solidify his resolve to win at what ever cost .. it would be Hagrid. Hes been with Harry since pretty much the beginning and of all the characters that play any importance in Harrys life, hagrids the one Harrys never shown any real form of being mad or upset with.
Ron or hermoine? doubt it. but one ore both will be seriously hurt along the way, I'm guessing hermoinie, to get Ron to finaly admit his true feelings about her and solidify thier future ( afraid he lost her).
DD will go, book 6 or 7. Mabey not if battle but he will go. Get the sense as the books progress hes only still alive now to see Harry correct DDs mistake in not dealing with Riddle when he had the chance 50 years ago.
Durselys, don't think so, WE would love to see them get it, but thats too obvious and I think the Harry/Petunia relationship is a key element in Voldemorts downfall. but if any of the 3 do die, it would be Petunia, a second blood/love sacrifice like Harrys mother did, but thats a stretch. More than likely they will be have to be put in hiding early into book 6, protected by the order. VOldemort I don't think can touch them but he may send his minions after them. ( reason for the short stay at privet drive beginning of book 6 perhapse)
McGonegal, shes too crotchety to die. Like Ron or hermionie she may get hurt but not die. Flitwick. more possible but he definatly won't go down easy. Snape -- this guy is the biggest mystery of the books. being the anti-hero they are always hard to predict.
Heres one I think no one thought ot. Mr Olviander. die. GUilt for making the wands ( he mentions his regret ever making them i think in SS? ). His regret will consum him and he will try to do soemthing about it and die in the process
Malfoys - i think if any it will be Malfoys wife. but thier reputation will be ruined to the point they will have to hide and live like Muggles ( what a great form of revenge on them, better than death)
Dobby, self sacrifice sounds about right, inspires other house elves to stand up at last.
Voldemort. I got a strange theory here. Voldemort will of course Die, but Tom Riddle will survive ( at least longer than Voldemort, die just after he has time to say something?). I realy think Voldemort is the result of Riddle being possesed by a stronger more evil spirit. Tom and this Spirit merged to create Voldemort. This spriti is none other than what remains of Slytherin himself ( locked away in the Chamber of Secrets, joined to the basalisk as how disembodied Vold did with snakes). Even JKR stated there is a key point from the Chamber itself that flows to the end ( book 6 is realy much of the story that CoS was forming up to be but she cut much of it out)
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JackO - Oct 6, 2004 3:18 am (#371 of 1297)
Snape could die. I really think he might, because he seems to be in a cycle of betrayal and redemption. There is so much about Snape to find out. He's a very mysterious character. I think he still has a debt to pay off. It seems that he continuously saves Harry from the worst situations. He might try to get Harry expelled, but he still saves his life many times. It would be a nice way to finally finish it all off by sacrificing himself to let Harry win.
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Hermy-own - Oct 6, 2004 8:51 am (#372 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Marcus,
Once again you give a very good case for one of your theories; however there is something I feel I must query...
"First of all, for maximum impact, Rowling has to kill off one of the trio."
Ron or Hermione's deaths would be the most difficult for the average reader to cope with, I agree. It would certainly carry "maximum impact." However, I doubt that Rowling would see this as a reason to kill either Ron or Hermione.
Now, if their deaths are required for the progression of the story -- as you outline in the rest of your post -- then fine, they will be "killed off". I just don't think the impact, or pain, felt by the reader will play any part in motivating JKR to write these particular deaths.
Hermy.
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haymoni - Oct 6, 2004 10:39 am (#373 of 1297)
Marcus - I just don't want to believe it.
The fact that Hermione was almost killed was enough for Harry.
I just don't think Jo would take Ron or Hermione away from him.
I wish I had some neat theory with all the loose ends tied up, but this is just a gut reaction.
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 6, 2004 10:41 am (#374 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Oct 6, 2004 10:42 am
Rowling has repeatedly stated that we are dealing with real evil. In order to show this, she will present real deaths, deaths that hurt.
Now, I don't know about you, but Cedric's death didn't affect me that much. And, sorry, Sirius's death didn't bother much, either. Sure, it was sad, but a soldier falling in battle...he died for a cause. He chose to go to the DoM that night knowing full well what might happen.
Now how much more will Hermione's death affect us? She is, for many people -- myself include, their favorite character. We know her intimately. We care deeply for her. She is good hearted. She is kind and thoughtfull to the down-trodden. She is considerate of others' feelings. She is very preceptive and respectful of the thoughts of others. She is extremely loyal and brave -- a Gryffindor in every sense of the word.
She does not deserve to die. There is no reason for her to die.
So she must. *sob*.
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haymoni - Oct 6, 2004 11:33 am (#375 of 1297)
She's already been a cat, petrified, beaver-toothed and zapped.
Enough is enough!
I could see Arthur - especially the way JKR said "Alas, no" to the MOM question.
I still say Amos Diggory will try to avenge Cedric's death.
Shacklebolt, Hestia Jones and some of the other Order members could be on the list. Aberforth could be one - especially if he isn't as talented as Dumbledore.
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 6, 2004 11:54 am (#376 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Oct 6, 2004 11:55 am
Do you remember the M*A*S*H episode when Henry Blake was going home but was shot down with no survivors? For weeks afterwards, the production company was inundated with letters insisting, pleading, begging, demanding that he wasn't dead. That he was on some island someplace awaiting rescue. But they held firm. It was important to show that in war, people we love die.
Nobody wishes me to be wrong more than myself. I love Hermione. She is my favorite character. I hope against hope that Rowling will be satisfied with just taking Sirius. But I must call them as I see them. There are two more books left. And things are supposed to get worse, a lot worse. Rowling has repeatedly said that what Harry has to go through will be terrible. And what would be worse than taking one of his very closest friends?
Whether you accept this idea or not, I think we should be prepared for it.
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haymoni - Oct 6, 2004 12:51 pm (#377 of 1297)
I will stay in denial - I feel better there!
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 6, 2004 1:12 pm (#378 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
But denial is full of crocodiles. :-)
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KTO - Oct 6, 2004 1:35 pm (#379 of 1297)
Grimber- I love the thought of the Dursley's having to leave Privet Drive and be protected by the Order, this would make for some great reading and also have the ability to bring some humor into the book. I say no death of HRH, not going to happen, people will not reread the books and not pass them on to thier children. Reality in fiction is OK to an extent, but I know that I like my fiction to feel good, real life is hard enough!
Dumbledore goes, Voldermort goes, Percy may go and one of the older Weasleys, not Molly or Arthur.
Kreacher goes, Dobby stays. Peter goes, Lupin stays. I believe the Order will be victorious anything other would not fit with the story. I also believe that while Voldermort will go, Riddle will be saved, it is what I want to see happen. Great stories have the hero's live, the bad guys die and lessons for us all to learn. From what I have read about JK I believe she is a kind woman, who feels blessed with all that life has given her, she is an optimist and a believer in good prevailing, her writing will continue to reflect this, KT
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sere35 - Oct 6, 2004 9:56 pm (#380 of 1297)
I think that one of the trio has to die. I would not be surprised if JK killed off all of them.
Also KTO I would continue to reread the series even if she wrote a ending I hated. Its a great story and I have to reread it at least once a year along with all of my other books.( I am obsessive compulsive)
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Chemyst - Oct 7, 2004 6:34 am (#381 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
There is also the traditional quest motif of the hero's mentor dying before the final showdown. - Marcus But... but... JKR has said she identifies with Hermione at that age! Wouldn't that be a bit like suicide?
As much as I dislike it, this is a hard argument to overcome. Hermione was instrumental in beginning the DA where Harry begins to emerge as Hero-on-Purpose (as opposed to stumbling into fated luck). You are forcing me to cling to my thread-thin belief that HP is modern storycraft, NOT a historical romance which adheres to such classical tradition as:
"To seduce an English lady, a gentleman must always remember to...
Gaze longingly into her eyes while declaring her beauty..."
I doubt Harry will get his girl that way, so I won't bind him to the dead mentor formula either. I do think the point you raise is strong support for the notion that when Harry faces Voldemort, his mentors won't be around. But I'm sticking with the prediction that any mentor-death goes to Dumbledore.
And what would be worse than taking one of his very closest friends? That would be to have Ron die by Harry's own, highly-preventable, screw-up. If Ron died in that manner, Harry would stress his relationships with Ginny, the twins, and the entire Weasley clan, compounding the guilt several times over.
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JackO - Oct 7, 2004 3:02 pm (#382 of 1297)
I don't see one of the trio dying. It's just that, their a trio. They wouldn't even be a trio any more. There is no point in even imagining Harry without Ron or Hermione, because they all work off each other and fit together perfectly. I know that's no argument, and if it's denial, then I guess I'm joining haymoni in denying.
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 7, 2004 5:33 pm (#383 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
Which death would have the maximum impact on us as readers? Since each of us has our own favorite character, perhaps a better question is to ask which death would have the maximum impact upon Rowling? In the final analysis, she is the only one that really matters?
And whom is Rowling's favorite character?
If it seems like I am tossing rocks onto all of you swimming in denial, I can only say, "I'm sorry." She's my favorite character too.
Let's hope I'm wrong.
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Mandie MacLaren - Oct 8, 2004 7:45 am (#384 of 1297)
Did anyone see this article this morning? Sure made me wish I hadn't scanned the headlines... All the OTHER awful news, and now THIS: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I mean, I guess I knew it was going to happen... but this makes it so much more CONCRETE!
I know this post is already full of theories of who's going to die, I just thought I'd throw this article up there and see if anyone's read it yet!
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Steve Newton - Oct 8, 2004 8:36 am (#385 of 1297)
Librarian
Mandie, the article is very loosely written. It doesn't even say major character. I didn't get much useful information out of it.
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KTO - Oct 8, 2004 10:48 am (#386 of 1297)
While I did not get a lot of useful information about who was going to die, the article did indicate that HBP was scheduled to be released next year, this is the most concrete information I have seen about a date. My hope is EARLY, next year!!
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Greaves - Oct 8, 2004 11:35 am (#387 of 1297)
My Predictions Of Who Will Die In The Next Two Books Are:
Percy: will be murdered just before he tries to make up with his family.
Lupin: will be killed by wormtails silver hand most probably while he is a werewolf.
Dumbledore: I think he will have a duel with Voldemort and die in battle, I can't see him lasting the next two books. His death might just give Harry the anger to put the final blow to Voldemort.
Ron Weasley: Strange one here, Ron's middle name is Bilius he was named after his uncle or grandfather I think it says on this site or in another thread. This relative had the name of Bilius saw a grim and in 24 hours died. When asked at the Edinbrough Book Festival what Rons middle name was JK said 'Rons poor boy is Bilius' I am sure she said that. This makes me wonder whether the name of Bilius shows that Ron will die like his uncle or granfather who ever he was, this is enthasised when JK said poor boy in the same sentence, thats what made me think of this strange reason.
I also think that some more Order memebers like Mad Eye, Kingsley Shacklebolt and Emmeline Vance will die in battles with Voldemort and his DE's , I don't think Tonks will die for some reason though.
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Eponine - Oct 8, 2004 11:36 am (#388 of 1297)
Well, there are reports similar to that one all over the place now.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
This one, however, makes me laugh. I was unaware that Hermione and Harry had kissed in OotP.
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total hatred - Oct 8, 2004 11:52 am (#389 of 1297)
Ron will obviously die. There so many angles that makes me think he will die. One is the Chessboard Theory where in Ron will sacrifice himself for either Harry or Hermione
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KTO - Oct 8, 2004 12:29 pm (#390 of 1297)
my new theory is that Draco is going to die. His mother is scheduled to play a bigger role in the next book, he has been a consistent character throughout the books and while we may not love him he is familar and his death will bring a new awareness to HRH, so far the deaths have been adults and Cedric, who was just a periphary character. Draco's death will affect his mother and she will join the order, while dear Lucius will find a way to blame Draco's death on the Order and continue to support Voldermort.
it will be fabulous to read the book and see what theroies have been on target and which ones have missed the mark!
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Mandie MacLaren - Oct 8, 2004 3:19 pm (#391 of 1297)
HA! Eponine, that article is great. Appears that SOMEBODY wrote a piece of journalism and forgot to do their research!
Steve Newton, sorry you didn't get much out of the article I posted--just thought I'd throw it out there anyway...
And yes, KTO, this DOES tell us that it will be released at SOME point in 2005! And a good year it shall be!
As far as who will die, I really don't know, and I've run myself weary trying to guess. I really hope it's not Lupin, only because I think that Harry needs SOME adult in his life right now that was connected in some way to his parents. It would just be cruel to kill Lupin off at a time like that.
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Steve Newton - Oct 8, 2004 5:06 pm (#392 of 1297)
Librarian
Actually I passed right over the part about HBP being published next year. That is big. I hope that it is based on a good source.
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Grimber - Oct 8, 2004 6:32 pm (#393 of 1297)
Im half ways done with re reading ootp again and that harry/hermoinie kissed thing isn't there yet. I'm better they mistaked it for either Harry/Cho or where hermionie kissed Ron before his first Quidd. match.
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Cuivienen - Oct 8, 2004 7:03 pm (#394 of 1297)
Well, technically they did kiss; I recall Hermione kissing Harry on his cheek at some point. However, the journalist has simply obviously never read Harry Potter and did poor research; the quotation refers to the Harry-Cho kiss.
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Eponine - Oct 8, 2004 7:29 pm (#395 of 1297)
Well, if you want to get extremely technical about it, Hermione kissed Harry, but Harry didn't kiss Hermione. So... they never kissed.
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Mandie MacLaren - Oct 8, 2004 8:07 pm (#396 of 1297)
Eponine, I love the technicalities! Makes perfect sense to me!
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CrazyMom - Oct 8, 2004 8:10 pm (#397 of 1297)
Does anyone seeing Luna Lovegood making it through the series? I'm not sure. At the end of OOP, Harry felt a kind of weight lifting a bit whenever he talked with Luna. That could be a set-up for another disappointment for Harry. Right now, besides Neville, she seems to be the only one who can hear and see the same things Harry does. I can see Harry caring for Luna and then seeing her dying at the hands of a crumpled horned snorkack, or death eater.
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total hatred - Oct 8, 2004 9:42 pm (#398 of 1297)
I seriusly doubt where Narcissa loyalty lies. Either in the order or the DE. I believe she is the youngest of the Black sister. Her sister Andromeda is the Order's side while Bellatrix is in the other side. We never has enough info on her nature. It is not clear why she married to Lucius. Either she loves him or she was just victim of arranged marriage. She is some sort of a wild card just like Pansy
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TomProffitt - Oct 9, 2004 9:19 pm (#399 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
"Does anyone seeing Luna Lovegood making it through the series?" --- CrazyMom
There is not a single character that I am convinced is going to definitely die (even Lord Voldemort may be defeated in some way other than death). And likewise, there isn't a single character that I am certain will survive the seventh book.
Jo plotted, except for sub-plots and minor details, the entire series before she wrote PS/SS. When she says, "Sirius had to die," to her husband, I believe she meant that it was already plotted. There was not necessarily some important significance to his death other than it was already plotted. Why she put his death in the plot and refused to change probably says more about Jo than about the series. (Actually, when she originally planned the death I'm sure she hadn't yet grown attached to the character.)
So, when we go about forecasting deaths, I think we need to remember that Jo decided who was going to die (at least among the major characters) ten years ago. She wouldn't spare herself Sirius's death, I doubt she'll spare any other favorites.
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 10, 2004 10:24 am (#400 of 1297)
"There was not necessarily some important significance to his death other than it was already plotted."
I agree wholly with all of your post except for this line. I think that the fact that something is plotted into the outline gives it significance. There was a very specific reason Sirius had to die. Somehow Sirius' death will prove an absolute necessity in the series. We will see exactly why all characters to die have to die. I cannot imagine any major characters having completely empty deaths.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't mean the redemption. What I am questioning is Percy returning to the Order
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Hermy-own - Oct 4, 2004 10:11 am (#352 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"What I am questioning is Percy returning to the Order"
Strictly speaking, Percy cannot return to The Order; he has never been a member. What he can do, however, is choose to return to his family and join The Order, and this, I believe, is what Greaves tries to convey in his/her post. As Classicsquid correctly says: the wording, not the logic, is flawed.
I hope that clears things up.
Hermy.
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legolas - Oct 4, 2004 11:29 am (#353 of 1297)
JKR has said in todays update that more people will die in the last two books. I cant imagine that she was talking about minor characters because that would not advance the plot much further in terms of Story telling. So I imagine that some members of the Order will die.
I would be most upset if it was Lupin because I think he has a very important role with helping Harry to grieve. In addition the man has had a hard life and is one of the most compasionate and lovable characters in the book.
I think it would be "interesting" if it was a Weasley. I would hate to see any of them suffer. I wonder how Percy would react-whether it would be a "told you so-dont associate with such dangerous people" or whether he would come back to the family.
I am not sure how easy it would be to kill Hagrid.
If Dumbledore was killed before book 7 it would be a bit to Starwarslike. There would be nobody to explain what had happend at the end of the book.
Snape? We would probably find out more about him as a character if this was to happen. He is a character that we love to hate. What would his death mean to Harry?
So I guess that I am splitting my vote between a Weasley (probably Arthur) or Snape.
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The One - Oct 4, 2004 3:08 pm (#354 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
So I guess that I am splitting my vote between a Weasley (probably Arthur) or Snape
I don't know about Snape. I have a feeling that he will survive. He will not betray Dumbledore, he will not redeem himself by dying for the case, he will just work faithful to Dumbledore case, continue to be nasty, almost evil, and stay a git on the right side.
If one of the Weasleys bits the dust, what about Molly? The cornerstone of the family, fearing for everyone but herself, and usually not in the fire line, as far as we know, what if she is to die? Poor Molly, leaving her husband and children behind, the conflict with Percy unresolved.
That may very well happen.
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total hatred - Oct 4, 2004 3:26 pm (#355 of 1297)
I think Lupin might die. Killing him will give Harry more motivation to get more serious. I am considering one of the Weasley might die, either Percy, Arthur or Molly. Killing Arthur or Molly will greatly motivate the children to more zealous in defeating Voldie.
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Hollywand - Oct 4, 2004 4:42 pm (#356 of 1297)
Gryffindor
I am hoping we get a lot of historical deaths, for example, James, Lily, lots of their associates. Lots of meaningful historical deaths that aid Harry in discovering his personal history, but have already occured.
I am betting the 4 Privet Drive is a pun on the destruction of self for Harry's personal advancement, (the destruction of the private drives) and so the Dursleys will meet their end courtesy of Lord Voldemort.
Then Peter Pettigrew in a flash of instant karma, Bellatrix, Lucius, Kreacher and Draco. Oh, forgot Vol de Mort.
Hasta le bye bye meanies. ;-)
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From Venus - Oct 4, 2004 11:03 pm (#357 of 1297)
Less than three months to HBP!!!!
Jo's two-word answer to the "more deaths" question, namely "Yes, sorry" leads me to think that at least a couple of the deaths are going to hurt. So "bad guy" deaths, like LV or PP are not what worry me, but the possibility of losing someone we love.
I really don't think one of the trio will die. I don't think she would do that, I do think there is a possibility that we will lose Ron to something other than death for a while, though.
I see a strong possibility of losing Hagrid. I know he would be hard to kill, but I can see him stepping in somehow to save someone else. I don't think size matters against that wicked green bolt of light.
I also think a Weasley will be lost, seeing as how there are so many of them and they are so courageous. My first guess would be Percy, since he has to prove himself in a big way.
But I just really really REALLY can't see it being Ron or Hermione or Harry. I don't know if that's because I would be HORRIFIED if it was, or because I truly believe it wouldn't work in the story.
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 4, 2004 11:53 pm (#358 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
Actually, I am starting to warm up to the possibility that it might be Ron or Hermione. If they are meant for each other, then the loss of one, would be devestate the other.
My money is on Hermione buying it, though it wouldn't surprise me if it is Ron.
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The One - Oct 5, 2004 2:35 am (#359 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
I used to (and still do) think that Hermione is safe, Harry needs her too much. But that will of course make her a prime target.
LV already attacked Harry via Sirius, he is gone, Hermione next?
But deep in my heart I do believe that the story is about hope, love and a happy ending. A happy ending paid for by blood and tears, but still a happy ending. The kids and the trio friendship will survive whatever fate and JKR throw their way.
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Hollywand - Oct 5, 2004 5:08 am (#360 of 1297)
Gryffindor
It seems to me that reading about the death of Harry's parents, and possibly grandparents would be plenty sad, as the destruction of significant characters.
Harry and Hermione seems to me to be bound as one in the series, that the sturm und drang between Hermione and Ron is meant to distract the reader.
I will be surprised if she kills one of the trio.
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From Venus - Oct 5, 2004 7:28 am (#361 of 1297)
Less than three months to HBP!!!!
The more I think about it, (though it hurts to think about any of these characters dying, they have become so real to me), I'm thinking that Snape is going to die. And I think it's going to happen as he's saving someone's life. I think that Harry and Draco are going to be witness to this, which is going to cause them both to rethink a lot of stuff. I think that Harry will realize, too late, that he could have had an ally in Snape. And I think it will cause Malfoy to look again at where his loyalties lie.
I still can't believe that Jo would kill one of the Trio. There's just no way. Nope, it can't happen. Nope, definitley no.
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JackO - Oct 5, 2004 9:32 am (#362 of 1297)
It would hurt so bad to lose on of the trio...
Of the Weasleys, I think that if someone dies it might be Arthur. I'm sure if it happened Percy would regret very much that he didn't sort it all out with his dad. Then Percy could return to the family. But any death hurts so much...
Sirius was always my favorite except for Harry, and if you told me he was going to snuff it I would NEVER have believed you. So I'm not going to rush and say that someone won't die but..
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mike miller - Oct 5, 2004 10:56 am (#363 of 1297)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
I agree with Venus that Percy, in a valiant effort to redeem himself, will not see the end of book 7.
I truly hope the trio remains intact. Although, I am really concerned for Remus (and Peter) since the complete loss of the Maraunders could balance out the trio's survival.
DD is also a prime target as are any one of the Order memebers. If death strikes the Order is will probably be Moody first, then Remus.
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muggle born - Oct 5, 2004 12:47 pm (#364 of 1297)
I hope it isn't Tonks or Fred or George. Dumbledore seems the most likely. Maybe Voldemort will make Harry kill him, In the last book When Harry looked at Dumbledore he felt a strong urge to attack him. I can't remember exactly what was going on at the time but it could happen.
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TomProffitt - Oct 5, 2004 3:42 pm (#365 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
The only character who's death in book 6 that would surprise me is Harry.
I don't think Jo will be content in only killing supporting characters like Percy, Seamus, Dean or Parvati. If she's going to put in a death she will want us to feel it. We should expect the death of a major character like Molly, Ginny, Snape, Remus, or Tonks. We should not be surprised if Ron or Hermione has to go. Jo has made no bones about it, it's war, and war isn't pretty.
Someone we love will die.
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 5, 2004 3:48 pm (#366 of 1297)
That is a frightening prospect Mudblood, and I think that it is entirely possible. If Harry were to kill DD, what would that do to his credibility during the coming war? If some of my predictions were accurate, the next two books would become a complete mess. Harry as a war-time leader whom nobody trusts and half the wizarding world thinks is somehow in league with the dark lord. The dark lord now has an even greater advantage in the war.
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timrew - Oct 5, 2004 3:55 pm (#367 of 1297)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Classicsquid592: If Harry were to kill DD, what would that do to his credibility during the coming war?
I think Harry only had the urge to kill DD when he was 'possessed' by Voldemort. As he learns Occlumency more this urge will subside.....
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HPHouse - Oct 5, 2004 4:06 pm (#368 of 1297)
This thought of Voldemort possessing Harry and having Harry kill Dumbledore would make for an interesting and disturbing plot twist. However, I think that this is unlikely because in the fifth book, Dumbledore was on his guard when Harry was around for just this reason. And also Voldemort would be unable to do the Avada Kedavra curse through Harry because Harry's heart would not be in performing the curse and to do an unforgivable curse a person's heart would have to be in it.
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 5, 2004 6:49 pm (#369 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
I'm going to make it offical. I think Hermione is going to die before the series is over.
First of all, for maximum impact, Rowling has to kill off one of the trio.
I don't think it will be Harry. A number of things convince me of this. He is the hero. If he sacrifices himself to kill Voldemort, it will be a hollow victory. Rowling does not appear to be writing a tragedy where everybody in sight dies.
Why not Ron? The first reason is because it is a huge cliche that the hero's best friend dies. Even Rowling has commented upon it a number of times. She usually comments on things that she isn't going to do.
Ron soon won't even be the best friend. When he and Hermione "get it on", Harry is going to be the odd-man out.
Why Hermione? There are a number of reasons. First there is cold-blooded romance. The Hero is supposed to get the strongest girl. Hermione is the strongest girl in the series. However, Hermione and Ron are meant for each other. Therefore another girl needs to take the place of Hermione in the series. If Hermione gets killed off, her place is available for another.
There is also the traditional quest motiff of the hero's mentor dying before the final showdown. This allows the hero to obtain a total triumph. Now ask youself, which person has helped Harry the most to become the lean, mean, Dark Arts fighting machine that he is today? It isn't Dumbledore -- not a chance. He and Harry hardly ever interact except at the end of each book. The person who helps Harry the most is Hermione. So while most people assume the mentor role is played by Dumbledore, in actuality Rowling is using Hermione for that job. (The Red Herring Master at work again.) So Hermione has to die.
It would not surprise me if Hermione dies in HBP. Her death, as a muggle-born, will seal Harry's determination to take out the evil that is Voldemort once and for all.
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Grimber - Oct 5, 2004 10:26 pm (#370 of 1297)
I think if any character to die that would have the biggest devistating impact on Harry and his solidify his resolve to win at what ever cost .. it would be Hagrid. Hes been with Harry since pretty much the beginning and of all the characters that play any importance in Harrys life, hagrids the one Harrys never shown any real form of being mad or upset with.
Ron or hermoine? doubt it. but one ore both will be seriously hurt along the way, I'm guessing hermoinie, to get Ron to finaly admit his true feelings about her and solidify thier future ( afraid he lost her).
DD will go, book 6 or 7. Mabey not if battle but he will go. Get the sense as the books progress hes only still alive now to see Harry correct DDs mistake in not dealing with Riddle when he had the chance 50 years ago.
Durselys, don't think so, WE would love to see them get it, but thats too obvious and I think the Harry/Petunia relationship is a key element in Voldemorts downfall. but if any of the 3 do die, it would be Petunia, a second blood/love sacrifice like Harrys mother did, but thats a stretch. More than likely they will be have to be put in hiding early into book 6, protected by the order. VOldemort I don't think can touch them but he may send his minions after them. ( reason for the short stay at privet drive beginning of book 6 perhapse)
McGonegal, shes too crotchety to die. Like Ron or hermionie she may get hurt but not die. Flitwick. more possible but he definatly won't go down easy. Snape -- this guy is the biggest mystery of the books. being the anti-hero they are always hard to predict.
Heres one I think no one thought ot. Mr Olviander. die. GUilt for making the wands ( he mentions his regret ever making them i think in SS? ). His regret will consum him and he will try to do soemthing about it and die in the process
Malfoys - i think if any it will be Malfoys wife. but thier reputation will be ruined to the point they will have to hide and live like Muggles
( what a great form of revenge on them, better than death) Dobby, self sacrifice sounds about right, inspires other house elves to stand up at last.
Voldemort. I got a strange theory here. Voldemort will of course Die, but Tom Riddle will survive ( at least longer than Voldemort, die just after he has time to say something?). I realy think Voldemort is the result of Riddle being possesed by a stronger more evil spirit. Tom and this Spirit merged to create Voldemort. This spriti is none other than what remains of Slytherin himself ( locked away in the Chamber of Secrets, joined to the basalisk as how disembodied Vold did with snakes). Even JKR stated there is a key point from the Chamber itself that flows to the end ( book 6 is realy much of the story that CoS was forming up to be but she cut much of it out)
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JackO - Oct 6, 2004 3:18 am (#371 of 1297)
Snape could die. I really think he might, because he seems to be in a cycle of betrayal and redemption. There is so much about Snape to find out. He's a very mysterious character. I think he still has a debt to pay off. It seems that he continuously saves Harry from the worst situations. He might try to get Harry expelled, but he still saves his life many times. It would be a nice way to finally finish it all off by sacrificing himself to let Harry win.
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Hermy-own - Oct 6, 2004 8:51 am (#372 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Marcus,
Once again you give a very good case for one of your theories; however there is something I feel I must query...
"First of all, for maximum impact, Rowling has to kill off one of the trio."
Ron or Hermione's deaths would be the most difficult for the average reader to cope with, I agree. It would certainly carry "maximum impact." However, I doubt that Rowling would see this as a reason to kill either Ron or Hermione.
Now, if their deaths are required for the progression of the story -- as you outline in the rest of your post -- then fine, they will be "killed off". I just don't think the impact, or pain, felt by the reader will play any part in motivating JKR to write these particular deaths.
Hermy.
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haymoni - Oct 6, 2004 10:39 am (#373 of 1297)
Marcus - I just don't want to believe it.
The fact that Hermione was almost killed was enough for Harry.
I just don't think Jo would take Ron or Hermione away from him.
I wish I had some neat theory with all the loose ends tied up, but this is just a gut reaction.
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 6, 2004 10:41 am (#374 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Oct 6, 2004 10:42 am
Rowling has repeatedly stated that we are dealing with real evil. In order to show this, she will present real deaths, deaths that hurt.
Now, I don't know about you, but Cedric's death didn't affect me that much. And, sorry, Sirius's death didn't bother much, either. Sure, it was sad, but a soldier falling in battle...he died for a cause. He chose to go to the DoM that night knowing full well what might happen.
Now how much more will Hermione's death affect us? She is, for many people -- myself include, their favorite character. We know her intimately. We care deeply for her. She is good hearted. She is kind and thoughtfull to the down-trodden. She is considerate of others' feelings. She is very preceptive and respectful of the thoughts of others. She is extremely loyal and brave -- a Gryffindor in every sense of the word.
She does not deserve to die. There is no reason for her to die.
So she must. *sob*.
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haymoni - Oct 6, 2004 11:33 am (#375 of 1297)
She's already been a cat, petrified, beaver-toothed and zapped.
Enough is enough!
I could see Arthur - especially the way JKR said "Alas, no" to the MOM question.
I still say Amos Diggory will try to avenge Cedric's death.
Shacklebolt, Hestia Jones and some of the other Order members could be on the list. Aberforth could be one - especially if he isn't as talented as Dumbledore.
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 6, 2004 11:54 am (#376 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Oct 6, 2004 11:55 am
Do you remember the M*A*S*H episode when Henry Blake was going home but was shot down with no survivors? For weeks afterwards, the production company was inundated with letters insisting, pleading, begging, demanding that he wasn't dead. That he was on some island someplace awaiting rescue. But they held firm. It was important to show that in war, people we love die.
Nobody wishes me to be wrong more than myself. I love Hermione. She is my favorite character. I hope against hope that Rowling will be satisfied with just taking Sirius. But I must call them as I see them. There are two more books left. And things are supposed to get worse, a lot worse. Rowling has repeatedly said that what Harry has to go through will be terrible. And what would be worse than taking one of his very closest friends?
Whether you accept this idea or not, I think we should be prepared for it.
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haymoni - Oct 6, 2004 12:51 pm (#377 of 1297)
I will stay in denial - I feel better there!
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 6, 2004 1:12 pm (#378 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
But denial is full of crocodiles. :-)
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KTO - Oct 6, 2004 1:35 pm (#379 of 1297)
Grimber- I love the thought of the Dursley's having to leave Privet Drive and be protected by the Order, this would make for some great reading and also have the ability to bring some humor into the book. I say no death of HRH, not going to happen, people will not reread the books and not pass them on to thier children. Reality in fiction is OK to an extent, but I know that I like my fiction to feel good, real life is hard enough!
Dumbledore goes, Voldermort goes, Percy may go and one of the older Weasleys, not Molly or Arthur.
Kreacher goes, Dobby stays. Peter goes, Lupin stays. I believe the Order will be victorious anything other would not fit with the story. I also believe that while Voldermort will go, Riddle will be saved, it is what I want to see happen. Great stories have the hero's live, the bad guys die and lessons for us all to learn. From what I have read about JK I believe she is a kind woman, who feels blessed with all that life has given her, she is an optimist and a believer in good prevailing, her writing will continue to reflect this, KT
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sere35 - Oct 6, 2004 9:56 pm (#380 of 1297)
I think that one of the trio has to die. I would not be surprised if JK killed off all of them.
Also KTO I would continue to reread the series even if she wrote a ending I hated. Its a great story and I have to reread it at least once a year along with all of my other books.( I am obsessive compulsive)
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Chemyst - Oct 7, 2004 6:34 am (#381 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
There is also the traditional quest motif of the hero's mentor dying before the final showdown. - Marcus But... but... JKR has said she identifies with Hermione at that age! Wouldn't that be a bit like suicide?
As much as I dislike it, this is a hard argument to overcome. Hermione was instrumental in beginning the DA where Harry begins to emerge as Hero-on-Purpose (as opposed to stumbling into fated luck). You are forcing me to cling to my thread-thin belief that HP is modern storycraft, NOT a historical romance which adheres to such classical tradition as:
"To seduce an English lady, a gentleman must always remember to...
Gaze longingly into her eyes while declaring her beauty..."
I doubt Harry will get his girl that way, so I won't bind him to the dead mentor formula either. I do think the point you raise is strong support for the notion that when Harry faces Voldemort, his mentors won't be around. But I'm sticking with the prediction that any mentor-death goes to Dumbledore.
And what would be worse than taking one of his very closest friends? That would be to have Ron die by Harry's own, highly-preventable, screw-up. If Ron died in that manner, Harry would stress his relationships with Ginny, the twins, and the entire Weasley clan, compounding the guilt several times over.
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JackO - Oct 7, 2004 3:02 pm (#382 of 1297)
I don't see one of the trio dying. It's just that, their a trio. They wouldn't even be a trio any more. There is no point in even imagining Harry without Ron or Hermione, because they all work off each other and fit together perfectly. I know that's no argument, and if it's denial, then I guess I'm joining haymoni in denying.
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 7, 2004 5:33 pm (#383 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
Which death would have the maximum impact on us as readers? Since each of us has our own favorite character, perhaps a better question is to ask which death would have the maximum impact upon Rowling? In the final analysis, she is the only one that really matters?
And whom is Rowling's favorite character?
If it seems like I am tossing rocks onto all of you swimming in denial, I can only say, "I'm sorry." She's my favorite character too.
Let's hope I'm wrong.
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Mandie MacLaren - Oct 8, 2004 7:45 am (#384 of 1297)
Did anyone see this article this morning? Sure made me wish I hadn't scanned the headlines... All the OTHER awful news, and now THIS: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I mean, I guess I knew it was going to happen... but this makes it so much more CONCRETE!
I know this post is already full of theories of who's going to die, I just thought I'd throw this article up there and see if anyone's read it yet!
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Steve Newton - Oct 8, 2004 8:36 am (#385 of 1297)
Librarian
Mandie, the article is very loosely written. It doesn't even say major character. I didn't get much useful information out of it.
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KTO - Oct 8, 2004 10:48 am (#386 of 1297)
While I did not get a lot of useful information about who was going to die, the article did indicate that HBP was scheduled to be released next year, this is the most concrete information I have seen about a date. My hope is EARLY, next year!!
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Greaves - Oct 8, 2004 11:35 am (#387 of 1297)
My Predictions Of Who Will Die In The Next Two Books Are:
Percy: will be murdered just before he tries to make up with his family.
Lupin: will be killed by wormtails silver hand most probably while he is a werewolf.
Dumbledore: I think he will have a duel with Voldemort and die in battle, I can't see him lasting the next two books. His death might just give Harry the anger to put the final blow to Voldemort.
Ron Weasley: Strange one here, Ron's middle name is Bilius he was named after his uncle or grandfather I think it says on this site or in another thread. This relative had the name of Bilius saw a grim and in 24 hours died. When asked at the Edinbrough Book Festival what Rons middle name was JK said 'Rons poor boy is Bilius' I am sure she said that. This makes me wonder whether the name of Bilius shows that Ron will die like his uncle or granfather who ever he was, this is enthasised when JK said poor boy in the same sentence, thats what made me think of this strange reason.
I also think that some more Order memebers like Mad Eye, Kingsley Shacklebolt and Emmeline Vance will die in battles with Voldemort and his DE's , I don't think Tonks will die for some reason though.
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Eponine - Oct 8, 2004 11:36 am (#388 of 1297)
Well, there are reports similar to that one all over the place now.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
This one, however, makes me laugh. I was unaware that Hermione and Harry had kissed in OotP.
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total hatred - Oct 8, 2004 11:52 am (#389 of 1297)
Ron will obviously die. There so many angles that makes me think he will die. One is the Chessboard Theory where in Ron will sacrifice himself for either Harry or Hermione
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KTO - Oct 8, 2004 12:29 pm (#390 of 1297)
my new theory is that Draco is going to die. His mother is scheduled to play a bigger role in the next book, he has been a consistent character throughout the books and while we may not love him he is familar and his death will bring a new awareness to HRH, so far the deaths have been adults and Cedric, who was just a periphary character. Draco's death will affect his mother and she will join the order, while dear Lucius will find a way to blame Draco's death on the Order and continue to support Voldermort.
it will be fabulous to read the book and see what theroies have been on target and which ones have missed the mark!
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Mandie MacLaren - Oct 8, 2004 3:19 pm (#391 of 1297)
HA! Eponine, that article is great. Appears that SOMEBODY wrote a piece of journalism and forgot to do their research!
Steve Newton, sorry you didn't get much out of the article I posted--just thought I'd throw it out there anyway...
And yes, KTO, this DOES tell us that it will be released at SOME point in 2005! And a good year it shall be!
As far as who will die, I really don't know, and I've run myself weary trying to guess. I really hope it's not Lupin, only because I think that Harry needs SOME adult in his life right now that was connected in some way to his parents. It would just be cruel to kill Lupin off at a time like that.
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Steve Newton - Oct 8, 2004 5:06 pm (#392 of 1297)
Librarian
Actually I passed right over the part about HBP being published next year. That is big. I hope that it is based on a good source.
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Grimber - Oct 8, 2004 6:32 pm (#393 of 1297)
Im half ways done with re reading ootp again and that harry/hermoinie kissed thing isn't there yet. I'm better they mistaked it for either Harry/Cho or where hermionie kissed Ron before his first Quidd. match.
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Cuivienen - Oct 8, 2004 7:03 pm (#394 of 1297)
Well, technically they did kiss; I recall Hermione kissing Harry on his cheek at some point. However, the journalist has simply obviously never read Harry Potter and did poor research; the quotation refers to the Harry-Cho kiss.
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Eponine - Oct 8, 2004 7:29 pm (#395 of 1297)
Well, if you want to get extremely technical about it, Hermione kissed Harry, but Harry didn't kiss Hermione. So... they never kissed.
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Mandie MacLaren - Oct 8, 2004 8:07 pm (#396 of 1297)
Eponine, I love the technicalities! Makes perfect sense to me!
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CrazyMom - Oct 8, 2004 8:10 pm (#397 of 1297)
Does anyone seeing Luna Lovegood making it through the series? I'm not sure. At the end of OOP, Harry felt a kind of weight lifting a bit whenever he talked with Luna. That could be a set-up for another disappointment for Harry. Right now, besides Neville, she seems to be the only one who can hear and see the same things Harry does. I can see Harry caring for Luna and then seeing her dying at the hands of a crumpled horned snorkack, or death eater.
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total hatred - Oct 8, 2004 9:42 pm (#398 of 1297)
I seriusly doubt where Narcissa loyalty lies. Either in the order or the DE. I believe she is the youngest of the Black sister. Her sister Andromeda is the Order's side while Bellatrix is in the other side. We never has enough info on her nature. It is not clear why she married to Lucius. Either she loves him or she was just victim of arranged marriage. She is some sort of a wild card just like Pansy
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TomProffitt - Oct 9, 2004 9:19 pm (#399 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
"Does anyone seeing Luna Lovegood making it through the series?" --- CrazyMom
There is not a single character that I am convinced is going to definitely die (even Lord Voldemort may be defeated in some way other than death). And likewise, there isn't a single character that I am certain will survive the seventh book.
Jo plotted, except for sub-plots and minor details, the entire series before she wrote PS/SS. When she says, "Sirius had to die," to her husband, I believe she meant that it was already plotted. There was not necessarily some important significance to his death other than it was already plotted. Why she put his death in the plot and refused to change probably says more about Jo than about the series. (Actually, when she originally planned the death I'm sure she hadn't yet grown attached to the character.)
So, when we go about forecasting deaths, I think we need to remember that Jo decided who was going to die (at least among the major characters) ten years ago. She wouldn't spare herself Sirius's death, I doubt she'll spare any other favorites.
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 10, 2004 10:24 am (#400 of 1297)
"There was not necessarily some important significance to his death other than it was already plotted."
I agree wholly with all of your post except for this line. I think that the fact that something is plotted into the outline gives it significance. There was a very specific reason Sirius had to die. Somehow Sirius' death will prove an absolute necessity in the series. We will see exactly why all characters to die have to die. I cannot imagine any major characters having completely empty deaths.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 401 to 450)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 10:49 am
HPHouse - Oct 10, 2004 10:36 am (#401 of 1297)
Each major characters death will make Harry become more determined to defeat Voldemort in the end even at the cost of his own life.
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Tessa's Dad - Oct 10, 2004 11:22 am (#402 of 1297)
Tired Old Bat Bogey
After a night of insomnia, I failed miserably at summoning a nap, my mind wandered through some ideas concerning the Lexicon and book 6. Harry’s stay at the Dursley’s is supposed to be the shortest one to date. I found myself wondering why that would happen. If Harry needs the contact with blood relations and time in “home,” what would force Dumbledore to the decision to let Harry leave early? Could an attack on the Dursley’s home force Dumbledore to remove them and Harry to a safer place? Could such an attack not only harm one of the Dursley clan, but also kill one of them? If Good Old Aunt Petunia was the one killed would that remove the ancient magic that protect Harry? Would that safety of blood continue onto Dudders? Could an attack on the Dursley family cause Dudders or Pet to show some latent magic?
Could I have tried a little harder to cure my insomnia? Oh well, accio pillow!
PS. Thanks Denise P.
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legolas - Oct 10, 2004 11:38 am (#403 of 1297)
I guess that a possible reason for killing off Sirius may have been because he was potentially a bad influence. Let me qualify this before you AK me. I do love Sirius but he tended to confused Harry with his father. When they were younger they used to get up to all sorts of mischief. This might have put Harry at risk/killed or made him diverge slightly from the his destiny.
We are still waiting to see the person that shows magic in later life under great duress. Could this be Dudders? Could Harry be removed to a safer place to prevent his relatives being killed? Could one of his relatives be killed?
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Neville Longbottom - Oct 10, 2004 2:04 pm (#404 of 1297)
I doubt the Dursleys will be attacked in book 6. JK Rowling said, that they have only a very small role in book 6 (I think she even said that it was their smallest role in all the books), therefore nothing really major can happen with them in this book. I do think, however, that they will be attacked in book 7, after Voldemort finds a way around the protection spell.
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timrew - Oct 10, 2004 2:29 pm (#405 of 1297)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Maybe they have a small role in book 6 because they're killed in the first three pages?
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MickeyCee3948 - Oct 10, 2004 2:55 pm (#406 of 1297)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
timrew - I agree with you. JKR has said she wouldn't want to be Harry because she knows what's in store for him. How better to start HBP then have the Dursley's attacked right at the start. I think that would almost put Harry over the edge. I don't think all of them will be killed. I believe that it will be Uncle Vernon who will bite the dust. With Petunia (performing magic late)helping Harry to drive off the attackers while Dudley cowers in the corner. I know that almost everyone says that DD has put spells and curses on the house to protect everyone. But that doesn't mean that the Voldemort and his DE's know about the protection. The dementors attacked Harry and Dudley in the alley down from the house. The attack on #4 could come while Vernon is returning home and Harry is resting in the flower bed or at the playground. I believe that if Harry is going to inherit #12 then that fact could negate the protection DD put on #4.
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TomProffitt - Oct 10, 2004 3:06 pm (#407 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
"I cannot imagine any major characters having completely empty deaths." --- Classicsquid
One of Harry's traits as a character is that he does not have parents. That is, he is alone in the world.
What would be more normal than for a child, teenager, young adult to defer to the wisdom of a respected elder or parent figure? The series hinges upon Harry's status as an orphan.
Harry is a literal orphan. He is raised by a family who treat him as less than human, not as though he were a son of their own. His mentors are taken away from him. Harry and the trio are parent figures for Hagrid rather than the other way around. Remus Lupin must separate himself because of his lycanthropy. Arthur and Molly must maintain some distance because of Arthur's position in the Ministry and Harry's disfavor. Even Dumbledore must separate himself from Harry because of the danger from the link between Harry and Lord Voldemort.
Jo has continually found ways to maintain Harry's isolation. From a plotting stand point, Sirius had to die (or be separated from Harry) to maintain Harry's orphan status.
Sirius's death was meaningless in that it gained nothing for Harry or the Order. War is filled with meaningless deaths. I neither like them nor want them, but I expect them.
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hawkeyetkdchick - Oct 10, 2004 8:37 pm (#408 of 1297)
About the Dursley's: Does anyone think that maybe the protection that Harry gets at his aunt's house no longer exists? Wouldn't that protection be cancelled because Voldemort now has some of Harry's blood in him. Voldemort can touch Harry, so why would other protection from blood still exist? Maybe Voldemort realizes this in HBP and that's why it is Harry's shortest stay....
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Grimber - Oct 11, 2004 1:53 am (#409 of 1297)
hawkeyetkdchick: no i think just the opposite, though it no longer affords him physical protection, it gives harry something Far more than it did before. ( see my post about this in Good Old Aunt Petunia for my reasons why)
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Neville Longbottom - Oct 11, 2004 2:28 am (#410 of 1297)
Maybe they have a small role in book 6 because they're killed in the first three pages?
And then they'll get more involved in book 7, according to JKR ;-). No, I still think in the sixth book they are pretty much safe.
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CrazyMom - Oct 11, 2004 2:50 am (#411 of 1297)
Maybe someone from the Order who watches over Harry will die, such as Arabella Figg, in Chapter One? The rest of the order is now probably very busy getting prepared for war and might not be available to watch over Harry as much. Arabella's death may spur DD on to remove Harry to a place concealed by Fidelius Charm so that DD can spend the rest of the summer teaching Harry as much as possible.
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chocfrogger1 - Oct 11, 2004 8:43 am (#412 of 1297)
I think the next death in book 6 has to be a real gut-wrenching one, to show us the very real danger of going against the Dark Lord. My guess is Hagrid, because he is very familiar to us, having been in the entire series, and he is a very active agent for DD. We have seen one student die already, and I doubt she will kill off another. Hagrid seems a good candidate to perform some awesome feat in helping the cause, then paying for it with his life. His courage is unquestionable, he is totally devoted, beloved by our main characters, therefore, the perfect one to make us all outraged by his loss.
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hawkeyetkdchick - Oct 11, 2004 9:27 am (#413 of 1297)
Grimber: I really like your theory on the Aunt Petunia thread. If anyone else would like to read it, here's the link.
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Ginevra-Weasley - Oct 11, 2004 11:14 pm (#414 of 1297)
The Dumbledore of muggles
People Harry has lost in this war:
1)His parents :- he loved them but he didnot lose them as he was too young to appreciate their loss.(love)
2)Cedric Diggory :- he lost him even though he was not quite friendly with him. Remember this was the first death he saw and able to understand.(Loss)
3)Sirus Black :- This was the first time he witnessed the death of a loved one and this was the first death that really made him feel the pain.(love+loss)
So now I think that; following this pattern JKR will kill of a minor character(loss).Cedric was first mentioned in PoA and he snuffed it in GoF. Hence I think that one of the characters mentioned only in OoP will be axed by JKR in book-6. But again in book-7 I think that she will sacrifice a major character; the death of whose will infuse an unprecedented hatred against The Dark Lord in Harry's heart which will finally enable him to kill him.
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LooneyLuna - Oct 12, 2004 7:44 am (#415 of 1297)
Good theory - Ginevra! There were several order members in Harry's Advanced Guard that were just introduced - they all could die and not impact Harry too much, but provide much needed casualties for an all out war.
Don't forget that Bode also died in OotP, which would be a loss, according to your grading system.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 12, 2004 11:01 am (#416 of 1297)
Ginevra, As future tofuture deaths. Would you equate Remus as a love+loss?
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Ginevra-Weasley - Oct 13, 2004 3:30 am (#417 of 1297)
The Dumbledore of muggles
Yeah I will surely term Lupin's death as a (love+loss)death.
There are also many characters who belong to this category besides Lupin like DD,Ron,Hermione,Hagrid, all the Weasleys(yes I am also counting Percy), Luna(remember Harry felt pain in his heart for her sufferings) and Cho(if he has seperated from her that doesn't means that he won't really be miserable at heart when she dies).
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Kasse - Oct 13, 2004 6:30 am (#418 of 1297)
I have a feeling the twins will die. JK can not take one and leave the other they are way too close and one would not survive without the other - they do finish each other's sentences after all.
I would HATE to see them go but I just do not see her taking Charlie or Bill, we are not so emotionally attached to them. Percy would be too easy, so many people would not care if he died. Aurthur already had his death scare as did Ginnny (both with snakes) and Harry would not be able to handle Ron's or Molly's deat as these people are the closest he has had to having a brother or mother.
Leaving the twins. We as the reader are attached to them and they are not too close to Harry that he could not handle it if they died. I believe one might die in book six and the other in book seven.
Again I just thought of this silly theory, and I hope against hope that I am wrong, I would hate to see the twins go.....
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Tessa's Dad - Oct 13, 2004 6:37 am (#419 of 1297)
Tired Old Bat Bogey
Kasse,
Just think how gut wrenching book 7 would be without Fred or George. Fred would start talking and stop in mid sentence, as if waiting for George to finish his thought. That scene alone would bring to our hearts the devastation of the war.
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Steve Newton - Oct 13, 2004 6:45 am (#420 of 1297)
Librarian
"That scene alone would bring to our hearts the devastation of the war."
Which is why I think that it may happen. Sorry.
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LooneyLuna - Oct 13, 2004 6:53 am (#421 of 1297)
Well, considering Gideon and Fabian Prewitt (Molly's brothers?) died as heroes, I would assume the same for Gred and Forge. But I hope not, they provide much needed comic relief. Unless they give Voldemort a Canary Cream before going out in a blaze of Catherine Wheels, of course.
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Ginevra-Weasley - Oct 13, 2004 6:54 am (#422 of 1297)
The Dumbledore of muggles
Oh! I too will be quite unhappy if the twins die; but I donot think that twins will snuff it in book-7.Jo only kills someone when she has a good reason to do it. She killed Cerdic because she had to prepare Harry for a much worse loss i.e. of Sirius.She also told in one of her interviews that she had a reason behind axing Sirius. But I couldn't imagine that she will kill the Twins in her future books .That will take all the fun out of the books .
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Tessa's Dad - Oct 13, 2004 7:09 am (#423 of 1297)
Tired Old Bat Bogey
Edited by Oct 13, 2004 7:15 am
Steve,
I think the death of either Fred or George will happen. I hope not!
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Tessa's Dad - Oct 13, 2004 7:17 am (#424 of 1297)
Tired Old Bat Bogey
I was just visiting Draco’s thread and was considering his fate. I think Draco would be an excellent candidate for murder and death in book 6. While most of the people in the three “Good Houses” would not be too upset at his death, it may have a very profound affect on Slytherin House. If the son of a such well known DE can be killed, maybe the other Slytherins would start to see their own vulnerabilities. The death of Draco could bring the realities of the war home to Slytherin kids. How many Slytherins would rush to join DA?
Draco seems to exist for the sole reason of harassing Harry. He does seem to appear as a counterpoint to Harry. Draco comes from a world of wealth and prestige, a pampered little prince, while Harry comes from the exact opposite.
Harry would lose a very minor annoyance at Hogwarts, but Draco’s death could cause more Slytherins to reconsider their positions.
If Crabb or Goyle were to be killed, I don’t think that this would have as big an effect. It might shake Draco up. I can’t see too many Hogwarts students getting more than mildly upset about losing either one of these bodyguards.
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JackO - Oct 13, 2004 8:34 am (#425 of 1297)
I think the Slytherins are very well aware of the war already. We know that at least Malfoy, Crabbe, Goyle, and Nott's parents are Death Eaters. But I'm not arguing with you, I know what you mean by the "realities of the war".
I actually agree with you about a possible Slytherin loss. It would have a purpose in the plot but wouldn't necessarily hurt Harry directly, like Bertha Jorkins and Frank Bryce's deaths.
I don't think it will be Malfoy, because of the rivalry between him and Harry. You just have to have a kid like Malfoy at Hogwarts, to make things more complicated, or interesting if you think about it that way. A Death Eater could maybe die, one of the kids parents. I think that would affect the Slytherins too, only in the opposite way.
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Grimber - Oct 13, 2004 4:01 pm (#426 of 1297)
JKR should kill Cho off. they we can stop the discussion on her thread on whether shes nice or a git :p
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Jessalynn Quirky - Oct 13, 2004 7:08 pm (#427 of 1297)
I think that there is Seer blood in Ron, (though he doesn't know it) and I think this Seer blood came to him through Molly. In the chapter "The Woes of Mrs. Weasley" I think that the people she saw dead because of the boggart are the people who will survive--in the Weasley family, anyway. This means that the following people survive:
Ron
Bill
Mr. Weasley
Fred
George
Percy
Harry
This condems anyone else in the Weasley family, maybe Mrs. Weasley, and maybe Hermione(since Harry appeared.....)
Or maybe this post is completely wrong. Any thoughts, ideas, etc.?
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KWeldon - Oct 13, 2004 8:14 pm (#428 of 1297)
Prefect Marcus,
I've been meaning to comment on your theory that JKR will kill off Hermione. You state:
1) The Hero is supposed to get the strongest girl, Ron and Hermione are meant for each other, so Harry can't have her, therefore, another strong girl has to take her place.
2) Hermione is Harry's true mentor, and there is the traditional quest storyline of the hero's mentor dying before the final showdown.
3) It would have the most impact on JKR, since Hermione is her favorite character. (Is this true, BTW?)
My thoughts:
1)I find it hard to believe that JKR would kill off a major character whom most people adore just so Harry can ship with someone besides her, when Harry's love interest does not appear to be a major theme of these books. And, this is assuming that the hero getting the strongest girl is going to happen in these books. Sure it happens often, but there are exceptions in literature. Besides, I don't find it contradictory that Harry can have a strong female as one of his best friends, (whom he seeks counsel with only selectively, even already) and have a strong female as his girlfriend (whom he would seek solace and comfort with yet who would be strong enough to recognize when he needs his space).
2)Hermione may be A mentor for Harry, but spiritually I think Dumbledore is a more significant mentor. The question is, who does Harry think is his mentor? Consider this: if Dumbledore dies, don't you think Harry would ask himself, "%#&$#%^, how am I going to defeat Voldie now? Harry wouldn't say after Hermione's death the same thing.
3)Having an impact on JKR is hard to say, since I don't know how she thinks, but surely Dumbledore's death would have a MAJOR impact on the readers, on JKR, and especially on Harry. I don't think the question is, whose death would impact JKR the most, but whose death would impact Harry the most? Several people fit that bill, IMHO, including Hermione, but surely also Ron, Dumbledore, and Hagrid.
p.s., Jo, if you're reading this, please don't kill off Harry or Lupin!!!
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TomProffitt - Oct 13, 2004 8:44 pm (#429 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
KWeldon, as I stated in an earlier post, I believe that Jo is systematically separating Harry from his mentors.
She does not wish for him to have a legitimate parent figure. A 16 or 17 year old with such a person in his life would not have (or desire) the same freedom of decision making that Harry possesses as an orphan.
Jo has only killed one such mentor, Sirius. She has found other ways to keep Harry separated than death. Remus Lupin's introverted nature will do as much to spare him from Jo's quill as his prowess with a wand.
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Hollywand - Oct 13, 2004 9:34 pm (#430 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Grimber, thanks for the laugh! If Jo kills everyone who has the label "git" conferred on them, everyone in the book will be dead! ;-)
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 13, 2004 11:12 pm (#431 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
KWeldon,
Did you notice what you did? You repeated three of the reasons I've offered for Hermione's demise, and then in the rebuttal of the first, you stated you didn't believe Rowling would kill off a beloved character just for that reason.
It is not just for that reason I think Hermione will die. It is for a number of reasons, more than just the three listed. Each one can be argued against. However when you add them all up, they spell doom for my favorite character.
I certainly hope I'm wrong. Nobody will be happier than I if I am. But I don't think so.
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KWeldon - Oct 14, 2004 6:59 am (#432 of 1297)
Marcus,
I appreciate that you have compiled a list of reasons why she would kill Hermione, and not just that she's going to kill someone that we love because she needs to make an impact.
I guess my point is that any one of the characters we love can be killed off, and I don't see any more evidence that Hermione will die more so than Dumbledore, Ron, or Hagrid (in my opinion, the four people Harry loves the most).
I actually wouldn't mind too much if she kills off Hermione, except that I don't want to see Harry suffer that much. I know she has said that he will, but to me killing off Hermione or Ron is just plain cruel, both to the Harry character and the fans. The only thing worse would be killing Harry himself.
KWeldon
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haymoni - Oct 14, 2004 7:42 am (#433 of 1297)
Hermione came too close to death already. I just don't think it will be her.
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Kasse - Oct 14, 2004 8:45 am (#434 of 1297)
For those same reasons Haymoni I think that Ginny and Mr Weasley are safe - they came to close to death already.
However I do not think that what happened to Hermione in the DOM was coming to close to death even if the spell had been cast with full strength it would not have killed her. Unlike Ginny and Mr Weasley who if had not been gotten to in time would have surely died....
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Steve Newton - Oct 14, 2004 9:16 am (#435 of 1297)
Librarian
I thought that Haymoni was referring to being petrified. I can't remember but I thought that the spell in the MOM could have killed. I'll have to check.
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TomProffitt - Oct 14, 2004 9:33 am (#436 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
Sirius nearly had his soul sucked out. I don't think escaping a brush with death is an indication of guaranteed survival of book 7.
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Hermy-own - Oct 14, 2004 10:03 am (#437 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"This condems anyone else in the Weasley family, maybe Mrs. Weasley, and maybe Hermione" -- Jessalyn Quirky
Jessalyn, I see how your logic brings you to this conclusion but as TomProffit says in his post, near-deaths are not necessarily valid predictors of survival.
As for Hermione dying, I'm undecided at the moment. Mrs. Weasley, on the other hand, I do not think will die. There is no concrete reasoning behind it, I'm afraid. Probability dictates that a male Weasley is more likely to die because the males outnumber females by three-to-one. (How boring am I being today?!)
Hermy.
Edited for clarity
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haymoni - Oct 14, 2004 10:36 am (#438 of 1297)
I was thinking about the MOM injury that Hermione sustained. Since we don't know what the curse was, we don't really know just how close to death she was.
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Annika - Oct 14, 2004 11:22 am (#439 of 1297)
Due the entemology of Hermione's name, I believe we will believe her dead at one point in time (possibly by the hand of someone she loves), but she will come back in the end. JKR chooses her names carefully and for a reason.
(For more information, check our the "What's in a name" link on the Lexicon.)
Annika
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Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 14, 2004 11:51 am (#440 of 1297)
I think a clue to Hermione's fate can be found in Shakespeare's A Winter's Tale.
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legolas - Oct 14, 2004 12:41 pm (#441 of 1297)
How about Neville? He had better watch out for Bellatrix.
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Doxy Bowtruckle - Oct 14, 2004 1:08 pm (#442 of 1297)
He had better watch out, but I still think there's hope for him especially when he gets his new wand.
I really think that we will see a dealth in the weasley household, sorry to say, I really hope i am wrong here.
I don't have any clues to mind or anything to go on, it's just that they are portrayed as a near perfect pure wizarding blood family.
doxyB
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haymoni - Oct 14, 2004 1:13 pm (#443 of 1297)
As for me...I hope it's Percy.
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KWeldon - Oct 14, 2004 1:22 pm (#444 of 1297)
Annika states: Due the entemology of Hermione's name, I believe we will believe her dead at one point in time (possibly by the hand of someone she loves), but she will come back in the end. JKR chooses her names carefully and for a reason.
I have been thinking recently about someone's statement in OotP never to trust the fate of a person unless there is a body (sorry that I can't remember the details). It just seems like an odd thing to throw in for no reason. Perhaps Hermione will disappear, assumed to be dead for some reason (analogous to Wormtail's finger remaining), and will return in the end?
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Amilia Smith - Oct 14, 2004 2:03 pm (#445 of 1297)
What about Sirius? I'm fairly certain he is dead, but we don't actually have a body.
A co-worker of mine thinks that Neville will die. She feels that his improving skills will lead him to become over confident. He will think he can take on Belatrix on his own, but will sadly find he is no match for her.
Mills.
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Neville Longbottom - Oct 14, 2004 3:59 pm (#446 of 1297)
About Hermione: In Winter's Tale, she changed into a statue and came back to live at the end of the book. That's nearly exactly what happened to Hermione in CoS. I would say that's already a pretty big similarity to Shakespeare's Hermione. I think if any of the major kids will die, it will be Ginny. There's no reason, just a feeling.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Oct 14, 2004 4:04 pm (#447 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"Perhaps Hermione will disappear, assumed to be dead for some reason"
Methinks the Drought of Living Death will appear soon. I am not so sure it will be Hermione though because like Neville said, "That's nearly exactly what happened to Hermione in CoS." I don't see that repeating with her.
I know who I do see it for, but that's for another thread...toddles off for a butterbeer, minus the butter!
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Chemyst - Oct 14, 2004 8:00 pm (#448 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I just went back to find my original post #14 to see if I still think the same now as I did then. It has been nearly four months, we've had a couple of JKR website updates, and the only one I'd remove is my Fudge prediction. I'd said, "his own stupidity could make him the victim of friendly fire," but now I think he'll be run out of office before that has a chance to happen. I'd add a couple more: one of the Creevey brothers and Firenze, the divination teacher who saw it coming.
More to the current discussion though, I'd predicted that the one who'd come very close to being killed, but will survive, would be Ron. We've had both Voldemort and Peter come back from the seemingly dead, but those supposed "deaths" happened before Harry got to Hogwarts, so I don't think it would be over-working an old soap opera cliche to have it happen to a student.
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JackO - Oct 15, 2004 8:28 am (#449 of 1297)
Lately I've been considering whether Harry will die in the end. I still don't actually think he will but I'm trying to get used to the idea just in case...
Part of the reason I essentially don't think it will happen is because JKR mentions it so much. I'm much more scared of what she doesn't say. But I do think that if everyone he loves dies, than his death would be bearable. For an orphan who only had his dead mother's love with him until the age of 11, he depends on love very much.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 15, 2004 8:51 am (#450 of 1297)
If Minerva McGonagall dies I hope it is aftera battle with Bellatrix Black Lestrange in Minerva deals Bellatrix her death blow. I think that would make an most interesting climatic scene to book six.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Each major characters death will make Harry become more determined to defeat Voldemort in the end even at the cost of his own life.
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Tessa's Dad - Oct 10, 2004 11:22 am (#402 of 1297)
Tired Old Bat Bogey
After a night of insomnia, I failed miserably at summoning a nap, my mind wandered through some ideas concerning the Lexicon and book 6. Harry’s stay at the Dursley’s is supposed to be the shortest one to date. I found myself wondering why that would happen. If Harry needs the contact with blood relations and time in “home,” what would force Dumbledore to the decision to let Harry leave early? Could an attack on the Dursley’s home force Dumbledore to remove them and Harry to a safer place? Could such an attack not only harm one of the Dursley clan, but also kill one of them? If Good Old Aunt Petunia was the one killed would that remove the ancient magic that protect Harry? Would that safety of blood continue onto Dudders? Could an attack on the Dursley family cause Dudders or Pet to show some latent magic?
Could I have tried a little harder to cure my insomnia? Oh well, accio pillow!
PS. Thanks Denise P.
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legolas - Oct 10, 2004 11:38 am (#403 of 1297)
I guess that a possible reason for killing off Sirius may have been because he was potentially a bad influence. Let me qualify this before you AK me. I do love Sirius but he tended to confused Harry with his father. When they were younger they used to get up to all sorts of mischief. This might have put Harry at risk/killed or made him diverge slightly from the his destiny.
We are still waiting to see the person that shows magic in later life under great duress. Could this be Dudders? Could Harry be removed to a safer place to prevent his relatives being killed? Could one of his relatives be killed?
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Neville Longbottom - Oct 10, 2004 2:04 pm (#404 of 1297)
I doubt the Dursleys will be attacked in book 6. JK Rowling said, that they have only a very small role in book 6 (I think she even said that it was their smallest role in all the books), therefore nothing really major can happen with them in this book. I do think, however, that they will be attacked in book 7, after Voldemort finds a way around the protection spell.
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timrew - Oct 10, 2004 2:29 pm (#405 of 1297)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Maybe they have a small role in book 6 because they're killed in the first three pages?
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MickeyCee3948 - Oct 10, 2004 2:55 pm (#406 of 1297)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
timrew - I agree with you. JKR has said she wouldn't want to be Harry because she knows what's in store for him. How better to start HBP then have the Dursley's attacked right at the start. I think that would almost put Harry over the edge. I don't think all of them will be killed. I believe that it will be Uncle Vernon who will bite the dust. With Petunia (performing magic late)helping Harry to drive off the attackers while Dudley cowers in the corner. I know that almost everyone says that DD has put spells and curses on the house to protect everyone. But that doesn't mean that the Voldemort and his DE's know about the protection. The dementors attacked Harry and Dudley in the alley down from the house. The attack on #4 could come while Vernon is returning home and Harry is resting in the flower bed or at the playground. I believe that if Harry is going to inherit #12 then that fact could negate the protection DD put on #4.
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TomProffitt - Oct 10, 2004 3:06 pm (#407 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
"I cannot imagine any major characters having completely empty deaths." --- Classicsquid
One of Harry's traits as a character is that he does not have parents. That is, he is alone in the world.
What would be more normal than for a child, teenager, young adult to defer to the wisdom of a respected elder or parent figure? The series hinges upon Harry's status as an orphan.
Harry is a literal orphan. He is raised by a family who treat him as less than human, not as though he were a son of their own. His mentors are taken away from him. Harry and the trio are parent figures for Hagrid rather than the other way around. Remus Lupin must separate himself because of his lycanthropy. Arthur and Molly must maintain some distance because of Arthur's position in the Ministry and Harry's disfavor. Even Dumbledore must separate himself from Harry because of the danger from the link between Harry and Lord Voldemort.
Jo has continually found ways to maintain Harry's isolation. From a plotting stand point, Sirius had to die (or be separated from Harry) to maintain Harry's orphan status.
Sirius's death was meaningless in that it gained nothing for Harry or the Order. War is filled with meaningless deaths. I neither like them nor want them, but I expect them.
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hawkeyetkdchick - Oct 10, 2004 8:37 pm (#408 of 1297)
About the Dursley's: Does anyone think that maybe the protection that Harry gets at his aunt's house no longer exists? Wouldn't that protection be cancelled because Voldemort now has some of Harry's blood in him. Voldemort can touch Harry, so why would other protection from blood still exist? Maybe Voldemort realizes this in HBP and that's why it is Harry's shortest stay....
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Grimber - Oct 11, 2004 1:53 am (#409 of 1297)
hawkeyetkdchick: no i think just the opposite, though it no longer affords him physical protection, it gives harry something Far more than it did before. ( see my post about this in Good Old Aunt Petunia for my reasons why)
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Neville Longbottom - Oct 11, 2004 2:28 am (#410 of 1297)
Maybe they have a small role in book 6 because they're killed in the first three pages?
And then they'll get more involved in book 7, according to JKR ;-). No, I still think in the sixth book they are pretty much safe.
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CrazyMom - Oct 11, 2004 2:50 am (#411 of 1297)
Maybe someone from the Order who watches over Harry will die, such as Arabella Figg, in Chapter One? The rest of the order is now probably very busy getting prepared for war and might not be available to watch over Harry as much. Arabella's death may spur DD on to remove Harry to a place concealed by Fidelius Charm so that DD can spend the rest of the summer teaching Harry as much as possible.
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chocfrogger1 - Oct 11, 2004 8:43 am (#412 of 1297)
I think the next death in book 6 has to be a real gut-wrenching one, to show us the very real danger of going against the Dark Lord. My guess is Hagrid, because he is very familiar to us, having been in the entire series, and he is a very active agent for DD. We have seen one student die already, and I doubt she will kill off another. Hagrid seems a good candidate to perform some awesome feat in helping the cause, then paying for it with his life. His courage is unquestionable, he is totally devoted, beloved by our main characters, therefore, the perfect one to make us all outraged by his loss.
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hawkeyetkdchick - Oct 11, 2004 9:27 am (#413 of 1297)
Grimber: I really like your theory on the Aunt Petunia thread. If anyone else would like to read it, here's the link.
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Ginevra-Weasley - Oct 11, 2004 11:14 pm (#414 of 1297)
The Dumbledore of muggles
People Harry has lost in this war:
1)His parents :- he loved them but he didnot lose them as he was too young to appreciate their loss.(love)
2)Cedric Diggory :- he lost him even though he was not quite friendly with him. Remember this was the first death he saw and able to understand.(Loss)
3)Sirus Black :- This was the first time he witnessed the death of a loved one and this was the first death that really made him feel the pain.(love+loss)
So now I think that; following this pattern JKR will kill of a minor character(loss).Cedric was first mentioned in PoA and he snuffed it in GoF. Hence I think that one of the characters mentioned only in OoP will be axed by JKR in book-6. But again in book-7 I think that she will sacrifice a major character; the death of whose will infuse an unprecedented hatred against The Dark Lord in Harry's heart which will finally enable him to kill him.
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LooneyLuna - Oct 12, 2004 7:44 am (#415 of 1297)
Good theory - Ginevra! There were several order members in Harry's Advanced Guard that were just introduced - they all could die and not impact Harry too much, but provide much needed casualties for an all out war.
Don't forget that Bode also died in OotP, which would be a loss, according to your grading system.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 12, 2004 11:01 am (#416 of 1297)
Ginevra, As future tofuture deaths. Would you equate Remus as a love+loss?
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Ginevra-Weasley - Oct 13, 2004 3:30 am (#417 of 1297)
The Dumbledore of muggles
Yeah I will surely term Lupin's death as a (love+loss)death.
There are also many characters who belong to this category besides Lupin like DD,Ron,Hermione,Hagrid, all the Weasleys(yes I am also counting Percy), Luna(remember Harry felt pain in his heart for her sufferings) and Cho(if he has seperated from her that doesn't means that he won't really be miserable at heart when she dies).
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Kasse - Oct 13, 2004 6:30 am (#418 of 1297)
I have a feeling the twins will die. JK can not take one and leave the other they are way too close and one would not survive without the other - they do finish each other's sentences after all.
I would HATE to see them go but I just do not see her taking Charlie or Bill, we are not so emotionally attached to them. Percy would be too easy, so many people would not care if he died. Aurthur already had his death scare as did Ginnny (both with snakes) and Harry would not be able to handle Ron's or Molly's deat as these people are the closest he has had to having a brother or mother.
Leaving the twins. We as the reader are attached to them and they are not too close to Harry that he could not handle it if they died. I believe one might die in book six and the other in book seven.
Again I just thought of this silly theory, and I hope against hope that I am wrong, I would hate to see the twins go.....
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Tessa's Dad - Oct 13, 2004 6:37 am (#419 of 1297)
Tired Old Bat Bogey
Kasse,
Just think how gut wrenching book 7 would be without Fred or George. Fred would start talking and stop in mid sentence, as if waiting for George to finish his thought. That scene alone would bring to our hearts the devastation of the war.
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Steve Newton - Oct 13, 2004 6:45 am (#420 of 1297)
Librarian
"That scene alone would bring to our hearts the devastation of the war."
Which is why I think that it may happen. Sorry.
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LooneyLuna - Oct 13, 2004 6:53 am (#421 of 1297)
Well, considering Gideon and Fabian Prewitt (Molly's brothers?) died as heroes, I would assume the same for Gred and Forge. But I hope not, they provide much needed comic relief. Unless they give Voldemort a Canary Cream before going out in a blaze of Catherine Wheels, of course.
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Ginevra-Weasley - Oct 13, 2004 6:54 am (#422 of 1297)
The Dumbledore of muggles
Oh! I too will be quite unhappy if the twins die; but I donot think that twins will snuff it in book-7.Jo only kills someone when she has a good reason to do it. She killed Cerdic because she had to prepare Harry for a much worse loss i.e. of Sirius.She also told in one of her interviews that she had a reason behind axing Sirius. But I couldn't imagine that she will kill the Twins in her future books .That will take all the fun out of the books .
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Tessa's Dad - Oct 13, 2004 7:09 am (#423 of 1297)
Tired Old Bat Bogey
Edited by Oct 13, 2004 7:15 am
Steve,
I think the death of either Fred or George will happen. I hope not!
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Tessa's Dad - Oct 13, 2004 7:17 am (#424 of 1297)
Tired Old Bat Bogey
I was just visiting Draco’s thread and was considering his fate. I think Draco would be an excellent candidate for murder and death in book 6. While most of the people in the three “Good Houses” would not be too upset at his death, it may have a very profound affect on Slytherin House. If the son of a such well known DE can be killed, maybe the other Slytherins would start to see their own vulnerabilities. The death of Draco could bring the realities of the war home to Slytherin kids. How many Slytherins would rush to join DA?
Draco seems to exist for the sole reason of harassing Harry. He does seem to appear as a counterpoint to Harry. Draco comes from a world of wealth and prestige, a pampered little prince, while Harry comes from the exact opposite.
Harry would lose a very minor annoyance at Hogwarts, but Draco’s death could cause more Slytherins to reconsider their positions.
If Crabb or Goyle were to be killed, I don’t think that this would have as big an effect. It might shake Draco up. I can’t see too many Hogwarts students getting more than mildly upset about losing either one of these bodyguards.
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JackO - Oct 13, 2004 8:34 am (#425 of 1297)
I think the Slytherins are very well aware of the war already. We know that at least Malfoy, Crabbe, Goyle, and Nott's parents are Death Eaters. But I'm not arguing with you, I know what you mean by the "realities of the war".
I actually agree with you about a possible Slytherin loss. It would have a purpose in the plot but wouldn't necessarily hurt Harry directly, like Bertha Jorkins and Frank Bryce's deaths.
I don't think it will be Malfoy, because of the rivalry between him and Harry. You just have to have a kid like Malfoy at Hogwarts, to make things more complicated, or interesting if you think about it that way. A Death Eater could maybe die, one of the kids parents. I think that would affect the Slytherins too, only in the opposite way.
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Grimber - Oct 13, 2004 4:01 pm (#426 of 1297)
JKR should kill Cho off. they we can stop the discussion on her thread on whether shes nice or a git :p
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Jessalynn Quirky - Oct 13, 2004 7:08 pm (#427 of 1297)
I think that there is Seer blood in Ron, (though he doesn't know it) and I think this Seer blood came to him through Molly. In the chapter "The Woes of Mrs. Weasley" I think that the people she saw dead because of the boggart are the people who will survive--in the Weasley family, anyway. This means that the following people survive:
Ron
Bill
Mr. Weasley
Fred
George
Percy
Harry
This condems anyone else in the Weasley family, maybe Mrs. Weasley, and maybe Hermione(since Harry appeared.....)
Or maybe this post is completely wrong. Any thoughts, ideas, etc.?
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KWeldon - Oct 13, 2004 8:14 pm (#428 of 1297)
Prefect Marcus,
I've been meaning to comment on your theory that JKR will kill off Hermione. You state:
1) The Hero is supposed to get the strongest girl, Ron and Hermione are meant for each other, so Harry can't have her, therefore, another strong girl has to take her place.
2) Hermione is Harry's true mentor, and there is the traditional quest storyline of the hero's mentor dying before the final showdown.
3) It would have the most impact on JKR, since Hermione is her favorite character. (Is this true, BTW?)
My thoughts:
1)I find it hard to believe that JKR would kill off a major character whom most people adore just so Harry can ship with someone besides her, when Harry's love interest does not appear to be a major theme of these books. And, this is assuming that the hero getting the strongest girl is going to happen in these books. Sure it happens often, but there are exceptions in literature. Besides, I don't find it contradictory that Harry can have a strong female as one of his best friends, (whom he seeks counsel with only selectively, even already) and have a strong female as his girlfriend (whom he would seek solace and comfort with yet who would be strong enough to recognize when he needs his space).
2)Hermione may be A mentor for Harry, but spiritually I think Dumbledore is a more significant mentor. The question is, who does Harry think is his mentor? Consider this: if Dumbledore dies, don't you think Harry would ask himself, "%#&$#%^, how am I going to defeat Voldie now? Harry wouldn't say after Hermione's death the same thing.
3)Having an impact on JKR is hard to say, since I don't know how she thinks, but surely Dumbledore's death would have a MAJOR impact on the readers, on JKR, and especially on Harry. I don't think the question is, whose death would impact JKR the most, but whose death would impact Harry the most? Several people fit that bill, IMHO, including Hermione, but surely also Ron, Dumbledore, and Hagrid.
p.s., Jo, if you're reading this, please don't kill off Harry or Lupin!!!
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TomProffitt - Oct 13, 2004 8:44 pm (#429 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
KWeldon, as I stated in an earlier post, I believe that Jo is systematically separating Harry from his mentors.
She does not wish for him to have a legitimate parent figure. A 16 or 17 year old with such a person in his life would not have (or desire) the same freedom of decision making that Harry possesses as an orphan.
Jo has only killed one such mentor, Sirius. She has found other ways to keep Harry separated than death. Remus Lupin's introverted nature will do as much to spare him from Jo's quill as his prowess with a wand.
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Hollywand - Oct 13, 2004 9:34 pm (#430 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Grimber, thanks for the laugh! If Jo kills everyone who has the label "git" conferred on them, everyone in the book will be dead! ;-)
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 13, 2004 11:12 pm (#431 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
KWeldon,
Did you notice what you did? You repeated three of the reasons I've offered for Hermione's demise, and then in the rebuttal of the first, you stated you didn't believe Rowling would kill off a beloved character just for that reason.
It is not just for that reason I think Hermione will die. It is for a number of reasons, more than just the three listed. Each one can be argued against. However when you add them all up, they spell doom for my favorite character.
I certainly hope I'm wrong. Nobody will be happier than I if I am. But I don't think so.
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KWeldon - Oct 14, 2004 6:59 am (#432 of 1297)
Marcus,
I appreciate that you have compiled a list of reasons why she would kill Hermione, and not just that she's going to kill someone that we love because she needs to make an impact.
I guess my point is that any one of the characters we love can be killed off, and I don't see any more evidence that Hermione will die more so than Dumbledore, Ron, or Hagrid (in my opinion, the four people Harry loves the most).
I actually wouldn't mind too much if she kills off Hermione, except that I don't want to see Harry suffer that much. I know she has said that he will, but to me killing off Hermione or Ron is just plain cruel, both to the Harry character and the fans. The only thing worse would be killing Harry himself.
KWeldon
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haymoni - Oct 14, 2004 7:42 am (#433 of 1297)
Hermione came too close to death already. I just don't think it will be her.
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Kasse - Oct 14, 2004 8:45 am (#434 of 1297)
For those same reasons Haymoni I think that Ginny and Mr Weasley are safe - they came to close to death already.
However I do not think that what happened to Hermione in the DOM was coming to close to death even if the spell had been cast with full strength it would not have killed her. Unlike Ginny and Mr Weasley who if had not been gotten to in time would have surely died....
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Steve Newton - Oct 14, 2004 9:16 am (#435 of 1297)
Librarian
I thought that Haymoni was referring to being petrified. I can't remember but I thought that the spell in the MOM could have killed. I'll have to check.
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TomProffitt - Oct 14, 2004 9:33 am (#436 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
Sirius nearly had his soul sucked out. I don't think escaping a brush with death is an indication of guaranteed survival of book 7.
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Hermy-own - Oct 14, 2004 10:03 am (#437 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"This condems anyone else in the Weasley family, maybe Mrs. Weasley, and maybe Hermione" -- Jessalyn Quirky
Jessalyn, I see how your logic brings you to this conclusion but as TomProffit says in his post, near-deaths are not necessarily valid predictors of survival.
As for Hermione dying, I'm undecided at the moment. Mrs. Weasley, on the other hand, I do not think will die. There is no concrete reasoning behind it, I'm afraid. Probability dictates that a male Weasley is more likely to die because the males outnumber females by three-to-one. (How boring am I being today?!)
Hermy.
Edited for clarity
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haymoni - Oct 14, 2004 10:36 am (#438 of 1297)
I was thinking about the MOM injury that Hermione sustained. Since we don't know what the curse was, we don't really know just how close to death she was.
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Annika - Oct 14, 2004 11:22 am (#439 of 1297)
Due the entemology of Hermione's name, I believe we will believe her dead at one point in time (possibly by the hand of someone she loves), but she will come back in the end. JKR chooses her names carefully and for a reason.
(For more information, check our the "What's in a name" link on the Lexicon.)
Annika
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Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 14, 2004 11:51 am (#440 of 1297)
I think a clue to Hermione's fate can be found in Shakespeare's A Winter's Tale.
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legolas - Oct 14, 2004 12:41 pm (#441 of 1297)
How about Neville? He had better watch out for Bellatrix.
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Doxy Bowtruckle - Oct 14, 2004 1:08 pm (#442 of 1297)
He had better watch out, but I still think there's hope for him especially when he gets his new wand.
I really think that we will see a dealth in the weasley household, sorry to say, I really hope i am wrong here.
I don't have any clues to mind or anything to go on, it's just that they are portrayed as a near perfect pure wizarding blood family.
doxyB
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haymoni - Oct 14, 2004 1:13 pm (#443 of 1297)
As for me...I hope it's Percy.
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KWeldon - Oct 14, 2004 1:22 pm (#444 of 1297)
Annika states: Due the entemology of Hermione's name, I believe we will believe her dead at one point in time (possibly by the hand of someone she loves), but she will come back in the end. JKR chooses her names carefully and for a reason.
I have been thinking recently about someone's statement in OotP never to trust the fate of a person unless there is a body (sorry that I can't remember the details). It just seems like an odd thing to throw in for no reason. Perhaps Hermione will disappear, assumed to be dead for some reason (analogous to Wormtail's finger remaining), and will return in the end?
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Amilia Smith - Oct 14, 2004 2:03 pm (#445 of 1297)
What about Sirius? I'm fairly certain he is dead, but we don't actually have a body.
A co-worker of mine thinks that Neville will die. She feels that his improving skills will lead him to become over confident. He will think he can take on Belatrix on his own, but will sadly find he is no match for her.
Mills.
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Neville Longbottom - Oct 14, 2004 3:59 pm (#446 of 1297)
About Hermione: In Winter's Tale, she changed into a statue and came back to live at the end of the book. That's nearly exactly what happened to Hermione in CoS. I would say that's already a pretty big similarity to Shakespeare's Hermione. I think if any of the major kids will die, it will be Ginny. There's no reason, just a feeling.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Oct 14, 2004 4:04 pm (#447 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"Perhaps Hermione will disappear, assumed to be dead for some reason"
Methinks the Drought of Living Death will appear soon. I am not so sure it will be Hermione though because like Neville said, "That's nearly exactly what happened to Hermione in CoS." I don't see that repeating with her.
I know who I do see it for, but that's for another thread...toddles off for a butterbeer, minus the butter!
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Chemyst - Oct 14, 2004 8:00 pm (#448 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I just went back to find my original post #14 to see if I still think the same now as I did then. It has been nearly four months, we've had a couple of JKR website updates, and the only one I'd remove is my Fudge prediction. I'd said, "his own stupidity could make him the victim of friendly fire," but now I think he'll be run out of office before that has a chance to happen. I'd add a couple more: one of the Creevey brothers and Firenze, the divination teacher who saw it coming.
More to the current discussion though, I'd predicted that the one who'd come very close to being killed, but will survive, would be Ron. We've had both Voldemort and Peter come back from the seemingly dead, but those supposed "deaths" happened before Harry got to Hogwarts, so I don't think it would be over-working an old soap opera cliche to have it happen to a student.
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JackO - Oct 15, 2004 8:28 am (#449 of 1297)
Lately I've been considering whether Harry will die in the end. I still don't actually think he will but I'm trying to get used to the idea just in case...
Part of the reason I essentially don't think it will happen is because JKR mentions it so much. I'm much more scared of what she doesn't say. But I do think that if everyone he loves dies, than his death would be bearable. For an orphan who only had his dead mother's love with him until the age of 11, he depends on love very much.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 15, 2004 8:51 am (#450 of 1297)
If Minerva McGonagall dies I hope it is aftera battle with Bellatrix Black Lestrange in Minerva deals Bellatrix her death blow. I think that would make an most interesting climatic scene to book six.
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 451 to 500)
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Steve Newton - Oct 15, 2004 8:55 am (#451 of 1297)
Librarian
Nathan, are you suggesting that Minerva is to Dumbledore as Bellatrix is to Lord V?
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colbow - Oct 15, 2004 10:26 am (#452 of 1297)
Steve and Nathan- very good point! I think Minerva could be Dumbledore's right-hand woman!
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Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 15, 2004 1:29 pm (#453 of 1297)
Steve, Yes I am indeed. I suggest that both Dorcas Meadowes and Minerva have served in the same capacity as Bella does for Voldemort.
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haymoni - Oct 16, 2004 4:04 pm (#454 of 1297)
I thought so also - even Umbridge seemed to catch that one.
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Eowyn - Oct 17, 2004 6:38 pm (#455 of 1297)
Do you guys really think Rowling would kill Hermione when she says this is the character most like her? I just can't picture myself killing off myself in a novel. But that's me, could be wrong.
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LooneyLuna - Oct 18, 2004 7:01 am (#456 of 1297)
I don't think JKR would kill Hermione, since she's killed her symbolically twice now. She might incapacitate Hermione, but not kill her. I think Ron hasn't had a symbolic death yet, so he might be on the chopping block - after those spiders make him tap dance, I'm sure.
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Neville Longbottom - Oct 18, 2004 7:19 am (#457 of 1297)
Doesn't the sacrifice during the chess game count as a symbolic death? Personally, I'm very optimistic that all of the Trio will survive. Don't ask me why, but I've a good feeling.
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LooneyLuna - Oct 18, 2004 8:43 am (#458 of 1297)
D'oh! Forgot about that one Neville! Thank you for the reminder. Ron WAS knocked out by the White Queen.
Neville, I hope you're right. Maybe JKR will spend her time killing off more adults and leave the kids alone.
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total hatred - Oct 18, 2004 4:18 pm (#459 of 1297)
I think she will just critically injure Mione in order for Harry to unleash his full power against Voldie.
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JackO - Oct 20, 2004 11:14 am (#460 of 1297)
Yes, she may very well critically injure Harry's next love, whoever that may be...
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total hatred - Oct 20, 2004 3:09 pm (#461 of 1297)
Just because she/he was symbolically killed, it doesn't mean that he/she will not be killed.
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 20, 2004 4:05 pm (#462 of 1297)
I agree Total Hatred. Every character in the books have been symbolically killed. Ron in the first book, Hermione in the second, and Harry at the end of every book so far. If anything I would think that the trio member with the most symbolic deaths would be the most likely to actually die. Everyone of Harry's years ends with his symbolic death, would it not be likely that his life as a student would end with his physical death?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 20, 2004 4:13 pm (#463 of 1297)
I wonder if Ron's symbolic death is in fact the death of any preconcieved notions or ideas he might have about Percy, and other characters.
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Albus Glumbumble - Oct 30, 2004 11:01 am (#464 of 1297)
1st Class Melancholy - Inducing Treacle Producer
I've been having thoughts - maybe more inklings than really logical thoughts - about Harry's possible death. The first chapter of the whole HP saga is called The Boy Who Lived. Now this would immediately be presumed that the reference is to Harry; the boy who survived Voldemort's wrath - and rightly so, that is the obvious meaning.
Also, Harry and Voldemort are connected, aren't they? Intimately through the scar on his forehead. Voldemort is a parasite in his return; a sliver of a soul, dependent on other things and sacrifices and all that in order to keep going - all of which he has no trouble in finding, as long as he gives the promise of power to those who aid him. How can you kill something like that? Perhaps there is some sort of interdependence between Voldemort and Harry. Harry is as powerful as he is because of the remnants of Voldemort in him, and Voldemort needs that power back, he needs Harry in order regain that power and will always be a threat as long as that power is there for him to take.
But if there was no Harry, then Voldemort could never possibly be as powerful as he once was again, could he? Without Harry, he would just be some dark wizard with a bit of authority, floating around and doing dastardly deeds. He wouldn't last long if all the wizarding world united to get rid of his threat.
So there is a niggling feeling inside me that Harry will have to die before Voldemort can be vanquished completely, making him not the boy who grew up to be an adult who lives, but simply the boy who lived, the kind of cryptic message you get in a lot of novels
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Tomoé - Nov 6, 2004 4:47 pm (#465 of 1297)
Back in business
I was reading of Jo's interview and I found a disturbing bit :
Will there be 7 books for the 7 years of school?
Exactly, there will be 7 books.
Oh, there is 7. All right!!
Yeah, one for each of his years at Hogwarts, yeah
And nothing about him after school.
Probably not. I can’t say more than that, but no, I planned 7 and I’m going to stick with 7, I think. (The Connection, october 1999)
Probably not, ok, but why can't she say more than that? What could obviously prevent a sequel? Harry will get toasted, I'm sure of it.
Tessa's Dad -> Just think how gut wrenching book 7 would be without Fred or George. Fred would start talking and stop in mid sentence, as if waiting for George to finish his thought. That scene alone would bring to our hearts the devastation of the war.
I definitely hope not, but if she do the twins in, I'm sure she'll kill one of them and only one. Can she be this cruel?
Edit : I forgot, way back on the thread, S.E. Jones said : Harry is our eyes and ears in these stories. He is us, for lack of a better word, and killing him would mean killing her audience.
I would say it will be more like severing the tie between us and Harry, ending the story she had to tell. Of course, if she goes that way she better prepare her ticket for Bolivia. ^_~
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Annika - Nov 6, 2004 5:09 pm (#466 of 1297)
Tomoe, I have read that quote as well and found it a quite unsettling. I want Harry alive and well at the end of the series but I think he would prefer death if the alternative was a life without magic. He has seen and done too much to return to a normal, Dursleyish life. Him losing his magical abilities, which is another reason for no books after seven, is just as frightening a proposition as death in many aspects.
As for Fred and George, I doubt they will die, only because of their literary purpose. If we are indeed entering into a war, comic relief will be essential. As Harry said, they will all need a few laughs.
Annika
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TomProffitt - Nov 6, 2004 10:08 pm (#467 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
Another way to look at the no sequel bit, is that, really, all seven books are the same story. Harry Potter and The Dark Lord.
How can you write a sequel with out Voldemort? It would be just as hard as writing a sequel with out Harry. The raison d'etre of the series will have disappeared.
Sure there are many things we would like to hear about, or see, or experience, but the gripping suspense of the series that pulls us back as much as love for Harry and the trio is rooted in Lord Voldemort.
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Amilia Smith - Nov 7, 2004 9:28 am (#468 of 1297)
Tomoe: Of course, if she goes that way she better prepare her ticket for Bolivia. ^_~
The trouble with that is that I bet there are people in Bolivia who would be very upset with her too. The woman has no place left on Earth to hide. ***insert evil laughter***
Mills.
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Snuffles - Nov 8, 2004 2:14 am (#469 of 1297)
Olivia
Tomoe - The only comforting piece i can find is from the JKR Transcript near the top of the forum.
on being asked a question from Jangles "Are you going to write books about Harry after school?"
JKR Replies "Probably not, but i'll never say never because every time i do i immediately break the vow!"
Im hoping that JKR made a slip (But probably not!) that this means that Harry WILL survive all 7 books.
on bended knees to JKR pleading for Harry's life*
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Tomoé - Nov 11, 2004 5:31 pm (#470 of 1297)
Back in business
It won't work, Snuffles, I have plenty of other clues that Harry will die, some from interviews, some from the books, so I don't see it possible. Anyway, I prefer believe he'll get toasted and be proved wrong than believe he'll be all right and find him dead in the end. Tom could still be right though, maybe Jo can't see a proper sequel for "Harry Potter and the Dark Lord" series.
Amelia -> The woman has no place left on Earth to hide. ***insert evil laughter***
I'm not sure, I heard they sell old bunkers in East Germany that are suppose to resist atomic bomb. ^_~
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Jessalynn Quirky - Nov 11, 2004 6:40 pm (#471 of 1297)
Key word, Tomoe: suppose to! LOL
Or she could try hiding out at the bottom of the ocean, or the center of the Earth, or on the Moon, or on Mars......Nah, we'd find her! Bwahahaha!!!!
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Tomoé - Nov 11, 2004 8:42 pm (#472 of 1297)
Back in business
You would really want to use a atomic bomb against her and her family if she were to kill Harry? That's a pretty final solution.
I don't care if she kills Harry as long as it serve the story, so she could hide in my cupboard. ^_^
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WeasleyKing - Nov 11, 2004 9:25 pm (#473 of 1297)
I hope Harry doesn't snuff it in the 7th book. But doesn't Dumbledore say something about some things being worse than death? Voldie thinks death is the worst thing that could happen. If Voldie/Harry have to choose between death and "something worse than death" that would be the ultimate choice that separates them.
I know what I'm trying to say... its just hard to put into text. oh well...
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Tomoé - Nov 11, 2004 10:00 pm (#474 of 1297)
Back in business
I think understand perfectly what you mean, there are things worst than death, given the choice between such a thing and death, Harry will chose death and Voldemort will chose worst. Maybe that's how the series will end.
Is that want you meant?
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WeasleyKing - Nov 12, 2004 11:35 am (#475 of 1297)
Its a good theory. I hope thats not it though. Why did Voldie not die in the first place? Could that go back to the whole choice thing? He chose not to die? If the killing spell did not kill him before, then I can assume that it will not be what Harry can use to kill him in book 7. Maybe the scar not only linked their powers and minds, but also their lives. "...And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives..." Maybe it means Harry will sacrifice his own life which would make Voldie "live." Then once he "lives" he can be killed or his powers taken away. Maybe that is the thing worse than death for Voldie. Not to be dead, but to be Muggle. Now I am rambling...
Critical ward at St. Mungo's.
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Madame Pomfrey - Nov 18, 2004 3:15 pm (#476 of 1297)
I watched J Rowling:Harry Potter and me for the first time on a biography station today and something Jo said bothered me.She said Yes,there would be more deaths and one was going to be particularly hard to write.Then she said I mean rewrite Its already been written.Does this statement mean she is editing something she has already written or does it pertain to the prophesy.Any ideas?
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Tomoé - Nov 18, 2004 6:43 pm (#477 of 1297)
Back in business
Harry Potter and me was filmed in 2001 and presented on Christmas the same year. We know Jo took a break of OoP somewhere, and we know she was pretty shocked when she killed Sirius. So my theory is she was done with the first draft of OoP by December 2001, doing no Harry Potter work for a while, and she thought of Sirius as she was enterviewed.
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Madame Pomfrey - Nov 18, 2004 11:51 pm (#478 of 1297)
Thanks Tomoe.I wasn't sure when the interview was filmed.What you say makes perfect sense.
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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 24, 2004 6:59 am (#479 of 1297)
As to whether Harry will die or not:
I had a sort-of-theory at one point which I'm not sure if I believe or not. It was prompted by two lines: "Either must die at the hand of the other, for neither can live while the other survives" from the Prophecy and "Merely taking your life would not satisfy me, I admit —", which Dumbledore says to Voldemort during the battle in the MoM. Because of this, I was thinking that Voldemort deserved something worse than death, but, because it isn't death, Harry would have to die (see Prophecy) for it to happen to him.
I'm really not sure if I support this anymore, but I thought I'd put it out there.
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TomProffitt - Nov 24, 2004 9:38 pm (#480 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
Maria Dunlavey, I don't remember the context of your Dumbledore quote very well, but as I recall when I read it, I felt that Dumbledore was saying that he would not be satisfied with vengeance. Or, I would prefer to help you redeem yourself.
This is neutral towards Harry's death. If Lord Voldemort redeems himself it becomes irrelevant which one dies. Either way a good person would be lost.
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Angel Harris - Nov 26, 2004 12:21 pm (#481 of 1297)
person
I really do think Ron will die, he's Harry's first and closest friend. Voldemort had already killed someone who Harry viewed as a father. I also think that maybe Molly will die, she's like a mother to Harry. Speaking of Molly a clue might be what Molly saw when she was trying to deal with that boggart.
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Madame Pomfrey - Nov 29, 2004 2:46 pm (#482 of 1297)
I agree with with Angel about the Woes Of Mrs.Weasley being a clue.She saw Ron,Bill,Fred,George,Mr.Weasley,Percy and Harry dead.She did not see Charlie,Ginny, Hermione or herself as dead.I was thinking that the ones she didn't see might be the ones that will die if that makes any sense.Also I dont know if she would see Hermione at all since she is not a member of her family but she would see Harry because she considers him to be part of the family.
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total hatred - Nov 30, 2004 3:25 pm (#483 of 1297)
I think that was just only her greatest fear, seeing the people closest to her die. I think it either is Ron or Percy that was her favorite son
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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 30, 2004 7:36 pm (#484 of 1297)
Of course, the boggart was interrupted, so it would probably have continued to show the others. However, the missing people could be foreshadowing/irony, not a representation of Molly's character so much. It's probably what you're thinking as well, and I'm probably not articulating what I'm trying to say very well.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 1, 2004 12:00 pm (#485 of 1297)
No day but Today
I understand Maria. You are saying that those who did not show up could be the ones marked for death, but the ones that did are not nessisarily her favorites. Just like what Madame Pomfrey said.
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Tomoé - Dec 1, 2004 6:12 pm (#486 of 1297)
Back in business
I stumble across another interview :
[Harry] wants to get back at Dudley. He's a human boy, and we the readers want him to get back at Dudley. And, in the long term, trust me, he will. (Book Links, July 1999)
How could Harry get back at Dudley in the long term if Harry die? If Harry die, Big D will tell himself "At least, I'm not death like my stupid cousin."
Well, I guess I will change my mind every few months until I read the final book. ¬_¬
*starting to write on the walls :
"No new book of Harry
Drive Tomoé crazy"*
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Maria Dunlavey - Dec 4, 2004 6:19 am (#487 of 1297)
A quote from Daisy Pennifold over on the "Whatever became of ???" thread, about the Burrow: Peter Pettigrew lived there for twelve years. He probably knows everything about the place (protective wards, etc), as well as its inhabitants. He knows their habits, their strengths, weaknesses - and he knows that they are the closest thing to a real family Harry has. If that doesn't make them a target for Voldemort, I don't know what does!
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 4, 2004 8:25 am (#488 of 1297)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I agree Maria Dunlavey, the burrow is probably a greater targer than #4 or Hermione's residence. But when to attack when everybody is in the residence or when everyone but Molly is absent. Afterall attacking a house with anywhere from 8 to 10 wizards and witches would be pretty dangerous unless you had a considerable force with you and right now the DE's seem somewhat depleted.
Mikie
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Tessa's Dad - Dec 4, 2004 9:32 am (#489 of 1297)
Tired Old Bat Bogey
I wish we had not brought this topic up. My mind has started running through all the signs and possibilities of Molly’s death. Arthur explained the dread of finding the Dark Mark hovering over your home. Molly’s bogart showing her family and friends dead. Her tears when reuniting with the twins after the QWC. Harry could lose the only mother figure he’s ever had.
I’ve just started on my sixth reading of the series and I now intend to keep a look out for possible signs of Molly’s death.
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Hollywand - Dec 4, 2004 3:02 pm (#490 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Take heart, Tessa's Dad. Voldy will have to get by an awful lot of protective Weasleys and Potter and Granger to get to Molly. My sickles say she's safe....
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scoop2172000 - Dec 6, 2004 10:00 am (#491 of 1297)
This attack on the Burrow discussion got me thinking about the Weasleys' clock. Might the clock, by shifting family-members clock hands to "mortal peril" give Arthur and Molly warning of an impending attack?
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Hermy-own - Dec 6, 2004 4:11 pm (#492 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Scoop, it would. But the warning would be of no help if neither Molly nor Arthur were in the Burrow at the time of the attack.
If memory serves me correcty, Molly was at the Grim Old Place that night Arthur was attacked whilst on Order duty. I don't quite remember where she was when Ron and Ginny risked their lives at the DoM, though. (Does anyone remember? It's been a while since my last read-through.)
Perhaps there are watches available from Diagon Alley which can indicate whether a family member is in danger...
Hermy.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 7, 2004 10:17 am (#493 of 1297)
Hermy:
I got the impression Molly was home at the Burrow when Arthur was attacked at the MoM. Dumbledore, in arranging to send news to her, mentions that Molly may already know, because of "that excellent clock of her's."
Too, when Harry, Ron, Fred, George and Ginny went to 12 Grimauld Place that night, Sirius made Fred and George hold off on rushing to St. Mungo's, explaining to the Weasley children that it was important they make sure that Molly got the news first and arrived at the hospital ahead of them. If she'd been at the Burrow, Sirius would have been present when Dumbledore contacted her and would have definitely known, by the time Harry and the Weasley children came, that Molly had already gone to the hospital.
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Hermy-own - Dec 7, 2004 11:17 am (#494 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Alas, my memory lets me down once again. Thanks for the reminder, scoop. Molly was in fact at home, and her clock did pay dividends.
But having a clock that warns you of danger is one thing; being able to act on the situation is another. Unfortunately, in Arthur's case the attack was swift, ruthless and unexpected. There was very little - if anything - Mrs. Weasley could have done to stop it. How distressing and perplexing would the ordeal have been for Molly - knowing that her husband's life hung in the balance.
Having said that, having some sort of alarm would be more beneficial than having none at all - especially if the alarm can be raised instantly. As you say, scoop, Molly was quickly able to arrive at St. Mungo's to be at her husband's side. Without the clock, who knows when she would have found out!
Lastly, I've always been curious about that Weasley clock. It must have been going mental whilst Fred and George were running riot over Umbridge in OotP!
Hermy.
EDIT: On second thoughts, perhaps the clock didn't detect Fred and George's antics. Isn't Hogwarts impermeable to that kind of magic?
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 7, 2004 11:37 am (#495 of 1297)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
"Isn't Hogwarts Impermeable to that kind of magic?" It must be Hermy-own or Molly & Arthur would have known when Ginny was in mortal peril in CoA and when Ron was in danger in PoA.
Mikie
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scoop2172000 - Dec 7, 2004 2:09 pm (#496 of 1297)
Maybe while the children are at Hogwarts, their clock hands simply stay on "School"
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Maria Dunlavey - Dec 8, 2004 7:24 pm (#497 of 1297)
That makes sense, that it would stay on "School." I can't think of any specific references to the clock changing while the Weasley kids were at school. Can anyone else? I wonder if the Forbidden Forest counts as school.
When I saw "sixth reading of the series," Tessa's Dad, my heart skipped a beat, because at first I thought it was saying something about the sixth book. I had a dream last night where I somehow got my hands on the sixth book... If it doesn't come out in 2005, I'm going to cry.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 21, 2004 11:09 am (#498 of 1297)
News reports today about HBP attribute to Jo words to the effect that another character won't survive book six.
My prediction: Snape. Voldemort indicated in the graveyard that a Death Eater who betrayed him will be killed. Maybe Snape will, through a heroic death, redeem himself.
Maybe Snape will die defending the trio. Could Snape's shielding the trio from the werewolf in the film PoA be the thing that gave Jo chills?
Since I'm going out on a limb here, I'll add a kinda kooky, only half-serious theory to the Snape-will-die prediction. Maybe finally in Harry's sixth year, Snape will get the Defense Against the Dark Arts teaching post. We know the job is jinxed and that one teacher (Quirrell) already has died. Something bad always happens to the person hapless enough to take the job.
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 21, 2004 12:19 pm (#499 of 1297)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
scoop2172000 you could be on to something. If Snape was to die at the end of book 6 it would continue JKR's jinx on the DADA job would go along with her acknowledgement that someone will die in HBP and could open the Potions job to Felix. His name has always sounded more like a potions teacher job than a DADA job.
However, the DADA job has also always gone to a new character and giving it to Snape would break that trend.
You had better start ducking by the way, when Gina and Choices read your post you are sure to be deluged with dungbombs.
Mikie
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KWeldon - Dec 21, 2004 1:35 pm (#500 of 1297)
It's gotta be someone we care about a lot, not someone like Kingsley Shacklebolt, for example (great guy, but we don't have much invested in him). All I know is, if it is Lupin I'm going to be furious.
My choice is for a Weasley or Hagrid.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Librarian
Nathan, are you suggesting that Minerva is to Dumbledore as Bellatrix is to Lord V?
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colbow - Oct 15, 2004 10:26 am (#452 of 1297)
Steve and Nathan- very good point! I think Minerva could be Dumbledore's right-hand woman!
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Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 15, 2004 1:29 pm (#453 of 1297)
Steve, Yes I am indeed. I suggest that both Dorcas Meadowes and Minerva have served in the same capacity as Bella does for Voldemort.
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haymoni - Oct 16, 2004 4:04 pm (#454 of 1297)
I thought so also - even Umbridge seemed to catch that one.
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Eowyn - Oct 17, 2004 6:38 pm (#455 of 1297)
Do you guys really think Rowling would kill Hermione when she says this is the character most like her? I just can't picture myself killing off myself in a novel. But that's me, could be wrong.
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LooneyLuna - Oct 18, 2004 7:01 am (#456 of 1297)
I don't think JKR would kill Hermione, since she's killed her symbolically twice now. She might incapacitate Hermione, but not kill her. I think Ron hasn't had a symbolic death yet, so he might be on the chopping block - after those spiders make him tap dance, I'm sure.
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Neville Longbottom - Oct 18, 2004 7:19 am (#457 of 1297)
Doesn't the sacrifice during the chess game count as a symbolic death? Personally, I'm very optimistic that all of the Trio will survive. Don't ask me why, but I've a good feeling.
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LooneyLuna - Oct 18, 2004 8:43 am (#458 of 1297)
D'oh! Forgot about that one Neville! Thank you for the reminder. Ron WAS knocked out by the White Queen.
Neville, I hope you're right. Maybe JKR will spend her time killing off more adults and leave the kids alone.
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total hatred - Oct 18, 2004 4:18 pm (#459 of 1297)
I think she will just critically injure Mione in order for Harry to unleash his full power against Voldie.
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JackO - Oct 20, 2004 11:14 am (#460 of 1297)
Yes, she may very well critically injure Harry's next love, whoever that may be...
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total hatred - Oct 20, 2004 3:09 pm (#461 of 1297)
Just because she/he was symbolically killed, it doesn't mean that he/she will not be killed.
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 20, 2004 4:05 pm (#462 of 1297)
I agree Total Hatred. Every character in the books have been symbolically killed. Ron in the first book, Hermione in the second, and Harry at the end of every book so far. If anything I would think that the trio member with the most symbolic deaths would be the most likely to actually die. Everyone of Harry's years ends with his symbolic death, would it not be likely that his life as a student would end with his physical death?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 20, 2004 4:13 pm (#463 of 1297)
I wonder if Ron's symbolic death is in fact the death of any preconcieved notions or ideas he might have about Percy, and other characters.
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Albus Glumbumble - Oct 30, 2004 11:01 am (#464 of 1297)
1st Class Melancholy - Inducing Treacle Producer
I've been having thoughts - maybe more inklings than really logical thoughts - about Harry's possible death. The first chapter of the whole HP saga is called The Boy Who Lived. Now this would immediately be presumed that the reference is to Harry; the boy who survived Voldemort's wrath - and rightly so, that is the obvious meaning.
Also, Harry and Voldemort are connected, aren't they? Intimately through the scar on his forehead. Voldemort is a parasite in his return; a sliver of a soul, dependent on other things and sacrifices and all that in order to keep going - all of which he has no trouble in finding, as long as he gives the promise of power to those who aid him. How can you kill something like that? Perhaps there is some sort of interdependence between Voldemort and Harry. Harry is as powerful as he is because of the remnants of Voldemort in him, and Voldemort needs that power back, he needs Harry in order regain that power and will always be a threat as long as that power is there for him to take.
But if there was no Harry, then Voldemort could never possibly be as powerful as he once was again, could he? Without Harry, he would just be some dark wizard with a bit of authority, floating around and doing dastardly deeds. He wouldn't last long if all the wizarding world united to get rid of his threat.
So there is a niggling feeling inside me that Harry will have to die before Voldemort can be vanquished completely, making him not the boy who grew up to be an adult who lives, but simply the boy who lived, the kind of cryptic message you get in a lot of novels
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Tomoé - Nov 6, 2004 4:47 pm (#465 of 1297)
Back in business
I was reading of Jo's interview and I found a disturbing bit :
Will there be 7 books for the 7 years of school?
Exactly, there will be 7 books.
Oh, there is 7. All right!!
Yeah, one for each of his years at Hogwarts, yeah
And nothing about him after school.
Probably not. I can’t say more than that, but no, I planned 7 and I’m going to stick with 7, I think. (The Connection, october 1999)
Probably not, ok, but why can't she say more than that? What could obviously prevent a sequel? Harry will get toasted, I'm sure of it.
Tessa's Dad -> Just think how gut wrenching book 7 would be without Fred or George. Fred would start talking and stop in mid sentence, as if waiting for George to finish his thought. That scene alone would bring to our hearts the devastation of the war.
I definitely hope not, but if she do the twins in, I'm sure she'll kill one of them and only one. Can she be this cruel?
Edit : I forgot, way back on the thread, S.E. Jones said : Harry is our eyes and ears in these stories. He is us, for lack of a better word, and killing him would mean killing her audience.
I would say it will be more like severing the tie between us and Harry, ending the story she had to tell. Of course, if she goes that way she better prepare her ticket for Bolivia. ^_~
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Annika - Nov 6, 2004 5:09 pm (#466 of 1297)
Tomoe, I have read that quote as well and found it a quite unsettling. I want Harry alive and well at the end of the series but I think he would prefer death if the alternative was a life without magic. He has seen and done too much to return to a normal, Dursleyish life. Him losing his magical abilities, which is another reason for no books after seven, is just as frightening a proposition as death in many aspects.
As for Fred and George, I doubt they will die, only because of their literary purpose. If we are indeed entering into a war, comic relief will be essential. As Harry said, they will all need a few laughs.
Annika
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TomProffitt - Nov 6, 2004 10:08 pm (#467 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
Another way to look at the no sequel bit, is that, really, all seven books are the same story. Harry Potter and The Dark Lord.
How can you write a sequel with out Voldemort? It would be just as hard as writing a sequel with out Harry. The raison d'etre of the series will have disappeared.
Sure there are many things we would like to hear about, or see, or experience, but the gripping suspense of the series that pulls us back as much as love for Harry and the trio is rooted in Lord Voldemort.
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Amilia Smith - Nov 7, 2004 9:28 am (#468 of 1297)
Tomoe: Of course, if she goes that way she better prepare her ticket for Bolivia. ^_~
The trouble with that is that I bet there are people in Bolivia who would be very upset with her too. The woman has no place left on Earth to hide. ***insert evil laughter***
Mills.
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Snuffles - Nov 8, 2004 2:14 am (#469 of 1297)
Olivia
Tomoe - The only comforting piece i can find is from the JKR Transcript near the top of the forum.
on being asked a question from Jangles "Are you going to write books about Harry after school?"
JKR Replies "Probably not, but i'll never say never because every time i do i immediately break the vow!"
Im hoping that JKR made a slip (But probably not!) that this means that Harry WILL survive all 7 books.
on bended knees to JKR pleading for Harry's life*
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Tomoé - Nov 11, 2004 5:31 pm (#470 of 1297)
Back in business
It won't work, Snuffles, I have plenty of other clues that Harry will die, some from interviews, some from the books, so I don't see it possible. Anyway, I prefer believe he'll get toasted and be proved wrong than believe he'll be all right and find him dead in the end. Tom could still be right though, maybe Jo can't see a proper sequel for "Harry Potter and the Dark Lord" series.
Amelia -> The woman has no place left on Earth to hide. ***insert evil laughter***
I'm not sure, I heard they sell old bunkers in East Germany that are suppose to resist atomic bomb. ^_~
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Jessalynn Quirky - Nov 11, 2004 6:40 pm (#471 of 1297)
Key word, Tomoe: suppose to! LOL
Or she could try hiding out at the bottom of the ocean, or the center of the Earth, or on the Moon, or on Mars......Nah, we'd find her! Bwahahaha!!!!
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Tomoé - Nov 11, 2004 8:42 pm (#472 of 1297)
Back in business
You would really want to use a atomic bomb against her and her family if she were to kill Harry? That's a pretty final solution.
I don't care if she kills Harry as long as it serve the story, so she could hide in my cupboard. ^_^
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WeasleyKing - Nov 11, 2004 9:25 pm (#473 of 1297)
I hope Harry doesn't snuff it in the 7th book. But doesn't Dumbledore say something about some things being worse than death? Voldie thinks death is the worst thing that could happen. If Voldie/Harry have to choose between death and "something worse than death" that would be the ultimate choice that separates them.
I know what I'm trying to say... its just hard to put into text. oh well...
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Tomoé - Nov 11, 2004 10:00 pm (#474 of 1297)
Back in business
I think understand perfectly what you mean, there are things worst than death, given the choice between such a thing and death, Harry will chose death and Voldemort will chose worst. Maybe that's how the series will end.
Is that want you meant?
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WeasleyKing - Nov 12, 2004 11:35 am (#475 of 1297)
Its a good theory. I hope thats not it though. Why did Voldie not die in the first place? Could that go back to the whole choice thing? He chose not to die? If the killing spell did not kill him before, then I can assume that it will not be what Harry can use to kill him in book 7. Maybe the scar not only linked their powers and minds, but also their lives. "...And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives..." Maybe it means Harry will sacrifice his own life which would make Voldie "live." Then once he "lives" he can be killed or his powers taken away. Maybe that is the thing worse than death for Voldie. Not to be dead, but to be Muggle. Now I am rambling...
Critical ward at St. Mungo's.
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Madame Pomfrey - Nov 18, 2004 3:15 pm (#476 of 1297)
I watched J Rowling:Harry Potter and me for the first time on a biography station today and something Jo said bothered me.She said Yes,there would be more deaths and one was going to be particularly hard to write.Then she said I mean rewrite Its already been written.Does this statement mean she is editing something she has already written or does it pertain to the prophesy.Any ideas?
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Tomoé - Nov 18, 2004 6:43 pm (#477 of 1297)
Back in business
Harry Potter and me was filmed in 2001 and presented on Christmas the same year. We know Jo took a break of OoP somewhere, and we know she was pretty shocked when she killed Sirius. So my theory is she was done with the first draft of OoP by December 2001, doing no Harry Potter work for a while, and she thought of Sirius as she was enterviewed.
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Madame Pomfrey - Nov 18, 2004 11:51 pm (#478 of 1297)
Thanks Tomoe.I wasn't sure when the interview was filmed.What you say makes perfect sense.
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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 24, 2004 6:59 am (#479 of 1297)
As to whether Harry will die or not:
I had a sort-of-theory at one point which I'm not sure if I believe or not. It was prompted by two lines: "Either must die at the hand of the other, for neither can live while the other survives" from the Prophecy and "Merely taking your life would not satisfy me, I admit —", which Dumbledore says to Voldemort during the battle in the MoM. Because of this, I was thinking that Voldemort deserved something worse than death, but, because it isn't death, Harry would have to die (see Prophecy) for it to happen to him.
I'm really not sure if I support this anymore, but I thought I'd put it out there.
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TomProffitt - Nov 24, 2004 9:38 pm (#480 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
Maria Dunlavey, I don't remember the context of your Dumbledore quote very well, but as I recall when I read it, I felt that Dumbledore was saying that he would not be satisfied with vengeance. Or, I would prefer to help you redeem yourself.
This is neutral towards Harry's death. If Lord Voldemort redeems himself it becomes irrelevant which one dies. Either way a good person would be lost.
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Angel Harris - Nov 26, 2004 12:21 pm (#481 of 1297)
person
I really do think Ron will die, he's Harry's first and closest friend. Voldemort had already killed someone who Harry viewed as a father. I also think that maybe Molly will die, she's like a mother to Harry. Speaking of Molly a clue might be what Molly saw when she was trying to deal with that boggart.
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Madame Pomfrey - Nov 29, 2004 2:46 pm (#482 of 1297)
I agree with with Angel about the Woes Of Mrs.Weasley being a clue.She saw Ron,Bill,Fred,George,Mr.Weasley,Percy and Harry dead.She did not see Charlie,Ginny, Hermione or herself as dead.I was thinking that the ones she didn't see might be the ones that will die if that makes any sense.Also I dont know if she would see Hermione at all since she is not a member of her family but she would see Harry because she considers him to be part of the family.
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total hatred - Nov 30, 2004 3:25 pm (#483 of 1297)
I think that was just only her greatest fear, seeing the people closest to her die. I think it either is Ron or Percy that was her favorite son
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Maria Dunlavey - Nov 30, 2004 7:36 pm (#484 of 1297)
Of course, the boggart was interrupted, so it would probably have continued to show the others. However, the missing people could be foreshadowing/irony, not a representation of Molly's character so much. It's probably what you're thinking as well, and I'm probably not articulating what I'm trying to say very well.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 1, 2004 12:00 pm (#485 of 1297)
No day but Today
I understand Maria. You are saying that those who did not show up could be the ones marked for death, but the ones that did are not nessisarily her favorites. Just like what Madame Pomfrey said.
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Tomoé - Dec 1, 2004 6:12 pm (#486 of 1297)
Back in business
I stumble across another interview :
[Harry] wants to get back at Dudley. He's a human boy, and we the readers want him to get back at Dudley. And, in the long term, trust me, he will. (Book Links, July 1999)
How could Harry get back at Dudley in the long term if Harry die? If Harry die, Big D will tell himself "At least, I'm not death like my stupid cousin."
Well, I guess I will change my mind every few months until I read the final book. ¬_¬
*starting to write on the walls :
"No new book of Harry
Drive Tomoé crazy"*
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Maria Dunlavey - Dec 4, 2004 6:19 am (#487 of 1297)
A quote from Daisy Pennifold over on the "Whatever became of ???" thread, about the Burrow: Peter Pettigrew lived there for twelve years. He probably knows everything about the place (protective wards, etc), as well as its inhabitants. He knows their habits, their strengths, weaknesses - and he knows that they are the closest thing to a real family Harry has. If that doesn't make them a target for Voldemort, I don't know what does!
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 4, 2004 8:25 am (#488 of 1297)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I agree Maria Dunlavey, the burrow is probably a greater targer than #4 or Hermione's residence. But when to attack when everybody is in the residence or when everyone but Molly is absent. Afterall attacking a house with anywhere from 8 to 10 wizards and witches would be pretty dangerous unless you had a considerable force with you and right now the DE's seem somewhat depleted.
Mikie
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Tessa's Dad - Dec 4, 2004 9:32 am (#489 of 1297)
Tired Old Bat Bogey
I wish we had not brought this topic up. My mind has started running through all the signs and possibilities of Molly’s death. Arthur explained the dread of finding the Dark Mark hovering over your home. Molly’s bogart showing her family and friends dead. Her tears when reuniting with the twins after the QWC. Harry could lose the only mother figure he’s ever had.
I’ve just started on my sixth reading of the series and I now intend to keep a look out for possible signs of Molly’s death.
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Hollywand - Dec 4, 2004 3:02 pm (#490 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Take heart, Tessa's Dad. Voldy will have to get by an awful lot of protective Weasleys and Potter and Granger to get to Molly. My sickles say she's safe....
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scoop2172000 - Dec 6, 2004 10:00 am (#491 of 1297)
This attack on the Burrow discussion got me thinking about the Weasleys' clock. Might the clock, by shifting family-members clock hands to "mortal peril" give Arthur and Molly warning of an impending attack?
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Hermy-own - Dec 6, 2004 4:11 pm (#492 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Scoop, it would. But the warning would be of no help if neither Molly nor Arthur were in the Burrow at the time of the attack.
If memory serves me correcty, Molly was at the Grim Old Place that night Arthur was attacked whilst on Order duty. I don't quite remember where she was when Ron and Ginny risked their lives at the DoM, though. (Does anyone remember? It's been a while since my last read-through.)
Perhaps there are watches available from Diagon Alley which can indicate whether a family member is in danger...
Hermy.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 7, 2004 10:17 am (#493 of 1297)
Hermy:
I got the impression Molly was home at the Burrow when Arthur was attacked at the MoM. Dumbledore, in arranging to send news to her, mentions that Molly may already know, because of "that excellent clock of her's."
Too, when Harry, Ron, Fred, George and Ginny went to 12 Grimauld Place that night, Sirius made Fred and George hold off on rushing to St. Mungo's, explaining to the Weasley children that it was important they make sure that Molly got the news first and arrived at the hospital ahead of them. If she'd been at the Burrow, Sirius would have been present when Dumbledore contacted her and would have definitely known, by the time Harry and the Weasley children came, that Molly had already gone to the hospital.
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Hermy-own - Dec 7, 2004 11:17 am (#494 of 1297)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Alas, my memory lets me down once again. Thanks for the reminder, scoop. Molly was in fact at home, and her clock did pay dividends.
But having a clock that warns you of danger is one thing; being able to act on the situation is another. Unfortunately, in Arthur's case the attack was swift, ruthless and unexpected. There was very little - if anything - Mrs. Weasley could have done to stop it. How distressing and perplexing would the ordeal have been for Molly - knowing that her husband's life hung in the balance.
Having said that, having some sort of alarm would be more beneficial than having none at all - especially if the alarm can be raised instantly. As you say, scoop, Molly was quickly able to arrive at St. Mungo's to be at her husband's side. Without the clock, who knows when she would have found out!
Lastly, I've always been curious about that Weasley clock. It must have been going mental whilst Fred and George were running riot over Umbridge in OotP!
Hermy.
EDIT: On second thoughts, perhaps the clock didn't detect Fred and George's antics. Isn't Hogwarts impermeable to that kind of magic?
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 7, 2004 11:37 am (#495 of 1297)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
"Isn't Hogwarts Impermeable to that kind of magic?" It must be Hermy-own or Molly & Arthur would have known when Ginny was in mortal peril in CoA and when Ron was in danger in PoA.
Mikie
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scoop2172000 - Dec 7, 2004 2:09 pm (#496 of 1297)
Maybe while the children are at Hogwarts, their clock hands simply stay on "School"
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Maria Dunlavey - Dec 8, 2004 7:24 pm (#497 of 1297)
That makes sense, that it would stay on "School." I can't think of any specific references to the clock changing while the Weasley kids were at school. Can anyone else? I wonder if the Forbidden Forest counts as school.
When I saw "sixth reading of the series," Tessa's Dad, my heart skipped a beat, because at first I thought it was saying something about the sixth book. I had a dream last night where I somehow got my hands on the sixth book... If it doesn't come out in 2005, I'm going to cry.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 21, 2004 11:09 am (#498 of 1297)
News reports today about HBP attribute to Jo words to the effect that another character won't survive book six.
My prediction: Snape. Voldemort indicated in the graveyard that a Death Eater who betrayed him will be killed. Maybe Snape will, through a heroic death, redeem himself.
Maybe Snape will die defending the trio. Could Snape's shielding the trio from the werewolf in the film PoA be the thing that gave Jo chills?
Since I'm going out on a limb here, I'll add a kinda kooky, only half-serious theory to the Snape-will-die prediction. Maybe finally in Harry's sixth year, Snape will get the Defense Against the Dark Arts teaching post. We know the job is jinxed and that one teacher (Quirrell) already has died. Something bad always happens to the person hapless enough to take the job.
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 21, 2004 12:19 pm (#499 of 1297)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
scoop2172000 you could be on to something. If Snape was to die at the end of book 6 it would continue JKR's jinx on the DADA job would go along with her acknowledgement that someone will die in HBP and could open the Potions job to Felix. His name has always sounded more like a potions teacher job than a DADA job.
However, the DADA job has also always gone to a new character and giving it to Snape would break that trend.
You had better start ducking by the way, when Gina and Choices read your post you are sure to be deluged with dungbombs.
Mikie
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KWeldon - Dec 21, 2004 1:35 pm (#500 of 1297)
It's gotta be someone we care about a lot, not someone like Kingsley Shacklebolt, for example (great guy, but we don't have much invested in him). All I know is, if it is Lupin I'm going to be furious.
My choice is for a Weasley or Hagrid.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 501 to 550)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 10:51 am
Elanor - Dec 21, 2004 1:47 pm (#501 of 1297)
I think it might be a Weasley kid, though not Ron. Percy is my assumption, for a lot of reasons we talked about on the alchemy thread (see the post 517 on that thread). I wish it won't be Snape nor Lupin!
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KWeldon - Dec 21, 2004 2:12 pm (#502 of 1297)
I'm thinking it won't be Percy, only because JKR apologizes when she mentions that someone else is going to die. It would be more tragic if a Weasley other than Percy died only because for most readers I would guess he is their least favorite.
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Prefect Marcus - Dec 21, 2004 2:13 pm (#503 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
KWeldon - It's gotta be someone we care about a lot.
Why?
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KWeldon - Dec 21, 2004 2:45 pm (#504 of 1297)
For sheer dramatic effect. Why would JKR play it up only to knock off someone like Mundungus Fletcher? What kind of war is it when your friends and family make it through unscathed? It seems like JKR has to make us (and Harry) feel the effects of the war by taking out someone we really care about.
IMHO.
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Prefect Marcus - Dec 21, 2004 5:08 pm (#505 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
The reason I question it is she isn't playing it up at all like she did in book #5. All she has said is that "a character dies." That could mean just about anybody, even Mark Evans. :-)
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Nathan Zimmermann - Dec 21, 2004 5:44 pm (#506 of 1297)
I would place my sickles on one of the four following candidates
Minerva McGonagall, Molly Weasley, Renus Lupin, Alastor Moody, or Fudge.
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Steve Newton - Dec 21, 2004 6:53 pm (#507 of 1297)
Librarian
Nathan, isn't that 5?
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TomProffitt - Dec 21, 2004 6:56 pm (#508 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
I think that characters we think of as not really involved in the struggle would be just as dramatic as losing someone close.
It would take something very ugly for Lavender, Parvati, or Katie to be killed.
The circumstances of a death are what makes it hit home. Wasn't it Stalin who said "One death is a tragedy, a million are a statistic."
If we hear of dozens of deaths but do not witness them, it will not mean much. We witnessed Cedric's death; who would have suspected before GoF that his death would mean as much to us as it does?
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KWeldon - Dec 22, 2004 6:45 am (#509 of 1297)
We witnessed Cedric's death; who would have suspected before GoF that his death would mean as much to us as it does?
Excellent point. I'm going to also go out on a limb, though, and predict that it's going to be someone Bill's age or younger. Again, for dramatic effect.
she isn't playing it up at all like she did in book #5
Well, it's still early, isn't it? She just announced that it was finished; is she bound to start giving hints before that? Is that what happened before OotP?
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Maria Dunlavey - Dec 23, 2004 5:34 pm (#510 of 1297)
I'm not sure exactly why, but I feel like a Gryffindor in Harry's year will die. This is a possible scenario I have in my head: Seamus Finnigan's (fairly random choice) family is murdered over the summer before 6th year, maybe just before school starts. They're some of the first real casualties in the war, and it shocks everyone. Cedric Diggory's death was just before the end of the school year, and under weird circumstances, which all the students were receiving mixed messages about. Seamus's death awakens them to the idea that the Voldemort War really can touch them, and that danger isn't far away. It will shock and scare them greatly. Not that they won't grieve over his death. A boy in my school died last year, and his death touched the entire school deeply. In fact, it touched the entire county. I just remember that I didn't even know him, and the grief was just tearing me apart, but there was also the terrifying realization that death isn't really all that removed from us. If he can die, any of us can. Cedric Diggory was a triwizard champion, and he died during one of the tasks. As terrible as his death was, none of the students felt like it could happen to them. Seamus's death would awake them to that. (Remember, when I say 'Seamus,' I really mean 'pretty much any ordinary student.')
(This post dedicated to Mathias Bartels and all those who grieved for his death.)
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 24, 2004 10:52 am (#511 of 1297)
No day but Today
You know Maria, I agree. A death at the begining of the year would be very dramatic and have a real affect on the students. Its interesting that you picked Seamus. When I read that first sentence about a kid in Harry's year dying, I immediately thought of him. It seems to me that Seamus' death would be worse(in terms of grieving and sadness)for Dean and Ron, who were closer to him than Harry was, but it would still motivate Harry to do what needed to be done. It would also motivate the other members of the DA to work extra hard, knowing that whatever knowledge Seamus had gained while in the DA wasn't enough.
Sorry thats so long.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Dec 25, 2004 10:55 am (#512 of 1297)
Maria, I agree with all that you have said there is alternate canddate I think would have the same effect, Colin Creevey. I think that Colin's death would create a situation in which Harry felt honor bound to avenge it. Because, in the same way as Harry's hero is Sirius, Colin's hero is Harry. As such if Colin were to be killed Harry would in all likelihood feel the need to avenge Colin.
I think that first student to be killed will be Neville because, he dropped the orb and very likely heard the record of the prophecy when it escaped orb after the orb was broken. As such he is a prime target because, Voldemort wants the information and will do whatever is necessary to get it.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 27, 2004 6:55 am (#513 of 1297)
The theory that Seamus is the next one (make that the next student) to die is interesting.
He didn't join the DA until almost the end, so he has little time to practice defensive magic before Marietta ratted out the DA to Umbridge.
By contrast, Ron, Dean and even Neville, Harry's other Gryffindor classmates, have had much more time to practice defensive magic. Look how well Neville handled himself in the MoM battle.
Of all the Gryffindor fifth years in OotP, Seamus is the most vulnerable to attack, because he had no practical experience in Umbridge's DADA class and almost no practical experience via the DA.
P.S. It'll be interesting to see what Seamus gets for his Defense Against the Dark Arts OWL as compared to the other Gryffindors. I predict he'll get an Acceptable; Neville will be Acceptable; Ron and Dean will be Exceeds Expectations; and Harry will be Outstanding.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Dec 27, 2004 10:14 am (#514 of 1297)
Scoop, I think also Hermione will earn an Oustanding in DADA. I agree the idea of Seamus being the first to die has potential and that his lack of practical defensive skills will contribute to his death.
Now in terms of Slytherins who may die in Book 6 and 7 I think that Goyle will be the first to die because his lack of intelligence will make him an easier mark.
Draco Malfoy I think will also die. We know that Harry's reflexes are much more refined and that he has a quicker reaction time as demonstrated in the confrontation between Harry and Malfoy that Snape intervened in.
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KTO - Dec 27, 2004 12:07 pm (#515 of 1297)
I just finished reading SS and somethign in there made me think that Fred and George might kick the bucket, I should have written it down, anyone remember what it may have been?
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scoop2172000 - Dec 27, 2004 12:59 pm (#516 of 1297)
Thanks, Nathan, for mentioning Hermione. In post #513, I had limited my discussion to the five boys who were fifth-year Gryffindor members of the DA: Harry, Ron, Neville, Dean and Seamus (of course, Seamus didn't join until the end)
The three fifth-year Gryffindor girls we know by name (Hermione, Lavender and Pavarti) also were in the DA, and all of them were in it from the start.
In fact, of all the fifth-year Gryffindors we know of by name, Seamus is the one most vulnerable to attack, because he lacks the practical experience in defensive magic all the others have.
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WeasleyKing - Dec 27, 2004 3:51 pm (#517 of 1297)
I think that Neville will end up battling Bellatrix again and one of them will not survive.
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Maria Dunlavey - Dec 27, 2004 5:00 pm (#518 of 1297)
Just to clarify: When I said "Seamus," I wasn't actually intending to suggest that I thought Seamus would be the most likely candidate to die in the given scenario. I was just using him as an example. I hadn't really thought about who was most likely to die.
Remember, though, that lineage may have more to do with who dies than skill at defending oneself. As good as some members of the D.A. are, I don't think many of them would actually stand a chance of fighting off a Death Eater attack. Seamus is a half-blood, which makes him more likely to be attacked than, say, Neville, a pure-blood (although I suppose Neville might end up being a special case, because of the DoM battle...) Dean would also be likely to be attacked, as he is descended from at least one Muggle (I think — that little side story confuses me a bit). I don't remember if we know Parvati and Lavender's lineages. I do remember that, if it comes down to ability at Defense, Seamus, although it was his first D.A. meeting, nearly managed to conjure a Patronus ("It was definitely something hairy, Harry!"), while Lavender, who'd been present at meetings all along, complained, "And I still — can't — do it!"
Also, Scoop — Neville, an A in DADA? Remember how well he was doing in the D.A. — "He was improving so fast it was quite unnerving and when Harry taught them the Shield Charm, a means of deflecting minor jinxes so they rebounded upon the attacker, only Hermione mastered the charm faster than Neville." (OotP Ch. 25 p. 553 US hardcover) This sentence pretty much implies that Neville is the third best at DADA, after Harry and Hermione. I would be very shocked if those two didn't get O's, and I would also be a bit startled if only two people got O's, so it seems to me that we can logically conclude that Neville will probably get an O. (Wow, that was long for something that minor.)
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 28, 2004 2:37 pm (#519 of 1297)
No day but Today
Maria, I know you were using Seamus as an example, it just got me thinking that it might really happen.
Lavender is muggle born, but I don't know about Parvati. And I agree that Neville will probably do very well on his DADA O.W.L.
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sere35 - Dec 29, 2004 5:21 pm (#520 of 1297)
I think that all the 5th year members of the DA should get O's on their DADA owl's
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Maria Dunlavey - Jan 1, 2005 9:06 am (#521 of 1297)
Yeah, Matilda, I was pretty sure you did, but I just wanted to make sure. Refresh my memory — where did we learn that Lavender is muggle-born?
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Neville Longbottom - Jan 1, 2005 9:26 am (#522 of 1297)
There's a hint in PoA. Harry, Dean and her didn't know what a Grim is, while everybody who was raised in the Wizarding World knew about the Grim. That makes it seem likely that she was raised in the muggle-world. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that she's a muggle-born, after all, Harry and Dean aren't muggleborns either.
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Tomoé - Jan 4, 2005 6:36 am (#523 of 1297)
Back in business
Maybe the occasion to talk to Lavender about the Grim never came up, maybe Lavender is easily scared and her parents didn't dare to introduce her to the Grim, maybe her parents don't believe such a stupid story. It doesn't mean she isn't, but I find the clue pretty thin.
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Maria Dunlavey - Jan 5, 2005 11:49 am (#524 of 1297)
And I read that passage just the other day... Silly, silly me. I have to say that her dedication to divination makes me think that she would know something about it beforehand, but perhaps not. I don't know...
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Cuivienen - Jan 5, 2005 8:12 pm (#525 of 1297)
It certainly seems like she would have read her Divination books before the class began, at least, were she so interested. But perhaps Lavender wasn't interested in Divination before the class began, indeed perhaps not until Binky died and she became convinced of its veracity.
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Mahdi V. - Jan 5, 2005 9:06 pm (#526 of 1297)
I think Dumbledore will die in book 7. Book 6 is too early; with him already dead in book 7, I think all is lost. He needs to be a guiding force until the end. I think that the tragic death of the all-knowing Dumbledore near the end would be a sharp stab to Harry and the Order.
I can't be sure, but I think Harry may die too. "And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives." Maybe Voldemort and Harry both kill each other. It's possible for book 7 to end in this sort of sad finale. And JKR said that the epilogue of book 7 would show what happens to all of the characters after Year 7. I can see the epilogue as giving a description of the characters' future lives and closing with all of Harry's friends getting together and proposing a toast to his memory. Personally, I wouldn't like this intensely bittersweet ending, but the carefully worded prophecy doesn't rule this out.
And JKR loves twisting the plot...
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Joanne R. Reid - Jan 6, 2005 12:55 pm (#527 of 1297)
I've just read all 526 messages on this forum. Regardless of all the marvelous speculation, I'm sticking with my prediction that Percy's going to die in the next book.
We all knew Percy was in trouble when we saw him reading "Prefects Who Gained Power" (CoS, pge 58). Ron confirmed our feelings when he said, "'Course, he's very ambitious, Percy .... He wants to be Minister of Magic ..." In this regard, Percy's actions in OotP is as we had expected.
In spite of him being a git, Molly has not given up on him. She's tried to reconcile with him, but he has spurned her. She's feeling hurt, helpless and frustrated. Worse, she's afraid that he'll be killed before they can reconcile.
Now, consider Percy's infamous letter of advice. When Harry reads it, the enormity of the situation finally gels in his mind. He's extremely troubled at Percy's warning about him. He reflects on their years together at Hogwarts, the time he's lived at the Burrow and the high marks he received from Percy during the second test in GoF. Harry finally realizes the true extent of the MoM's attacks upon him and what Dumbledore has been experiencing since June.
Ron's words and actions, in tearing up the letter and throwing it into the fire, also show us his true feelings about his brother. Ron loves and respects Percy, even if he is a git. He feels betrayed by Percy, and he lashes out in the only way he can.
Percy is a secondary character, but an important one. In this regard, he is not an "important" character, which is significant.
Let's remember how upset JKR was when Sirius was killed. She called him an important character and bemoaned the fact that he had died. In her most recent diclosures, she says other character(s?) will die. But, she did not say that they were important nor does she agonize over their demise. Surely, the death of Ron or Hermione would be a devastating blow. Equally, the deaths of Molly, Arthur, Lupin, DD, et al, would be so significant that JKR would have said something further on the subject. The fact that she was somewhat dismissive of the death is significant.
How Percy dies is a further speculation. I suspect that he will find himself drawn into the Death Eaters. His ambition, his status as a pure-blood and his frustration with regard to his family's lowly status will be the keys to his fall. He will probably begin, like Rookwood, as an informer. Then, Percy will either be forced into a position where he is to kill or sets up a member of his family to be killed. He'll "see the light", but it'll be too late for him. He'll die, becoming something of a martyr.
So, that's my story and I'm sticking to it! :-D!
Sorry this was so long. I just started writing and it got out of hand. Thanks,
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Hollywand - Jan 6, 2005 2:50 pm (#528 of 1297)
Gryffindor
I promise to go off and iron my hands straightaway for saying this, but I'm hoping Petunia is headed for the toaster early on in Book Six to settle the squabble regarding whether she is squib, muggle, or squiggle......
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Tomoé - Jan 7, 2005 12:56 am (#529 of 1297)
Back in business
The final fight is way too late to kill Dumbledore, he have to die before Christmas on book 7, to give Harry his final wake up call, to unite the Houses, to make Harry and Snape work together. If Dumbledore die long before the end of book 7, Voldemort will be more willing to take stupid risks, some members of the order will leave, the Dark lord will seems unstoppable again. The Order members are counting too much on Dumbledore, they don't dare to say black when he say white and that's why Harry when to DoM, no one dared to tell Dumbledore he was wrong. They need to lose him.
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loopy4loopin - Jan 7, 2005 1:42 am (#530 of 1297)
Hi All,
I have a semi-worked out theory about who will die that I'd like to float for discussion.
Before I do, I'd like to say that there seems to be a lot of discussion on this thread about students dying but I think that apart from Harry's gang the students are actually a lot more likely to stay in one piece. After all, they spend most of their year at Hogwarts where they are relatively safe. The adults of course are a different story.
My theory is that as a general rule, those that will die in books 6&7 will be the ones that can't let go of the past. Sirius was the first and he is the most obvious example of someone constantly living under the shadow of the past. Snape is another who is obviously living in the past and I think that at some point he will have to choose to let go of his hatred or die. I think that Neville is also in danger because the past is smothering him (though like I say I think that students generally will be in great danger apart from Harry of course). Lupin obviously, though he may surprise in the end due to his positive outlook. Molly will survive, though I will be very surprised if she doesn't lose a loved one (so will she, I think)....
My ideas on this are obviously very LOTR inspired. I also think that like LOTR if there is a war then those who are active participants or who lose loved ones will somehow have to learn to live with the horror after its all finished. Those who can't survive the new world order after the war or who were too deeply hurt will need an out. Which isn't relevant on this thread.
Any ideas, anyone?
Tania
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Joanne R. Reid - Jan 7, 2005 10:15 am (#531 of 1297)
I think I agree with Loopy4Loopin regarding the major thrust of HP and LOTR. Both are derivations of classic Celtic myths. Within this structure, the hero must overcome enemies and obstacles. However, the hero must also be cursed in some fatal way. Ultimately the hero must learn of his curse, yet go into the final battle against the great enemy knowing that he will die. It is in this final act, of knowing sacrifice, that we see the true measure of the hero and are inspired by his actions to our own great deeds.
Harry has struggled mightily. Harry has seemingly lived a charmed life, in that he has been attacked yet survived. Only now does he know the true measure of his curse. It will be his actions from this point forward that will determine whether he is a hero.
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KWeldon - Jan 7, 2005 1:37 pm (#532 of 1297)
Only now does he know the true measure of his curse. It will be his actions from this point forward that will determine whether he is a hero
I just wanted to say that this is very nicely put.
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Pine Fresh - Jan 7, 2005 3:14 pm (#533 of 1297)
It would be interesting to see the fallout if LV directly or indirectly killed off Narcissa, Lucius, or Bellatrix. Being that these three are all related by marriage or by blood, the murder of one might force the others to revise their loyalty to LV. And Draco would find himself suddenly motherless or fatherless or auntless--like Harry.
If this is the case, Harry and Draco (like Sirius and Snape) might find themselves fighting LV side-by-side.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jan 10, 2005 3:20 pm (#534 of 1297)
No day but Today
Thats something that I also would love to see happen Pine. It doesn't matter who the Slytherin is, if they lost a family member to Voldie, they would feel closer to Harry or farther from Voldie and help unite the houses.
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Accio Sirius - Jan 12, 2005 5:16 pm (#535 of 1297)
Back to the old school Sirius
Given the topic of the thread, I thought you all would be interested to know that the new issue of Atlantic Monthly has a piece called Which Harry Potter Character Gets Whacked? It mainly talks about the odds from a British betting site, although I find it interesting that they don't even list Lupin. Could just be an oversight. Here's the link:
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Tomoé - Jan 12, 2005 7:10 pm (#536 of 1297)
Back in business
Strange thing they put Harry, Jo said he won't die in book 6. But maybe some of the gamblers don't know. I specially like the "Fred and/or George", double odds for one bet!
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KWeldon - Jan 12, 2005 9:08 pm (#537 of 1297)
Harry's love interest??? Don't they mean Harry's former love interest? Even at the very end of OotP, you couldn't call her that.
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TGF - Jan 14, 2005 11:07 am (#538 of 1297)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I fully expect Ron to go out in a big old blaze of glory. Ever hear of the Chess game theory? Ron sacrifices himself to stop the Queen (Bellatrix) so that Harry can go on to checkmate the King (Voldemort).
Also, Ron dying would give Harry that extra nudge towards all-out-confrontation with Voldemort. He hasn't really wanted to kill Voldemort so far, and indeed he seems to think of the whole idea with some reluctance.
A few other people could die as well and trigger that, admitedly, but I'd put my Gallons on Ron.
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total hatred - Jan 15, 2005 3:32 pm (#539 of 1297)
I second to that. Ron will die. Harry has learned his lesson and he likely try to think first before he acts. Ron tends to make irrational decisions for his own personal glory. He trying to show off but he mostly fails in impressing them.
Assuming that R/Hr ship will prosper, Ron will have to contend Hermione closeness to Harry. Even she is tied to Ron, I believe her dedication to Harry will not diminish. Don't argue that they are just friends. They are bound to care for each other. I am talking on the context that a girl care more to a friend than her boyfriend. The boyfriend is bound to be jealous. Knowing Ron, he can either try harder to impress Hermione or disable the opposition so that he has Hermione all be himself. All of these can force Ron to make some risky decisions and that will make him closer to the grave
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Cuivienen - Jan 20, 2005 7:15 pm (#540 of 1297)
I'm going to predict again. These are only my near-certainties (I can't see the series ending without the deaths of these characters):
Vernon Dursley, probably in the beginning of Book 7. Killed by a group of Death Eaters.
Ron, probably about 3/4 of the way through Book 7 during the long ending climax. Killed by a Death Eater.
Bellatrix Black, at about the same time as Ron. Killed by Neville.
Dumbledore, also during the final climax, but after Ron and Bellatrix. Killed by Voldemort and perhaps a group of Death Eaters.
Voldemort, in the third-to-last chapter of Book 7 (leaving enough time for conclusion). Killed by Harry.
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Pine Fresh - Jan 25, 2005 1:11 pm (#541 of 1297)
Personally, I hope Vernon Dursley's fate falls into "the worse than death" category. For parallelism (not to mention justice!), I wouldn't mind seeing him suffer 11 years without hope the way he made Harry suffer.
Perhaps our favorite car snob should be forced forever more to drive a battered Ford Anglia through the streets of Little Whinging. Naked. Without a functioning invisibility spell. (Actually, that might be more of a punishment for the other residents of Little Whinging . . .)
Oh my, aren't I nasty and vindictive today?
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Snuffles - Jan 25, 2005 2:47 pm (#542 of 1297)
Olivia
Eeewwhh a naked Vernon what a horrible thought. Lets hope he doesnt have egg dangling from his moustache like he usually does when he is shouting at Harry!! *Shudders with fright*
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Wand Maker - Jan 25, 2005 6:50 pm (#543 of 1297)
Vernon Dursley, probably in the beginning of Book 7. Killed by a group of Death Eaters. - Cuivienen
Nah. Vernon will be injured seriously enough to need a visit to St Mungos. He'd be so tormented with getting well with the idea of being surrounded by healers trying to do their job.
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TomProffitt - Jan 25, 2005 7:41 pm (#544 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
"Ron tends to make irrational decisions for his own personal glory." --- total hatred
I disagree. Ron is a very protective person and doesn't do it for his own glory. I'm thinking of his sacrifice in PS/SS's chess game. I'm thinking of his taking his own curse when Hermione is called a mudblood in CoS. I'm thinking of Ron braving the spiders in CoS. Ron is not a glory hound (he does like the attention, but he's not in it for the glory). I'll take Ron on my side any day, he's not going to sell me out for the fame like he was Gilderoy Lockhart.
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KTO - Jan 26, 2005 12:39 pm (#545 of 1297)
I agree with TomProfitt: I would take Ron on my side any day. also JK has stated he is most like her best friend, I do not believe she is going to kill him off.
Personally, and I know this is unrealistic, but I would like to see redemption for all, including Tom Riddle. Choices are ours, but often we make bad choices out of fear and self-loathing. I believe in the power of redemption and I think that JK shares my belief. The redemption for Tom Riddle may be that he dies and is finally at peace and that Harry is able to let him go without hate in his heart, and forgive him for the crimes he committed moving Harry closer to the complete state of grace.
I am ready for all the dung bombs.
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Professor Dumbledore - Jan 31, 2005 1:29 pm (#546 of 1297)
I really don't think vernon Dursley has anything to do with the plot. Nothing will happen to him or Dudley, or Aunt Petunia for that matter. They just aren't important enough to the plot to be killed or injured. They will continue being ignorant after the series is over.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Feb 3, 2005 1:01 am (#547 of 1297)
Sorry, but I think Ron and Hermione are going to survive (not I'm not a shipper) and that Harry will die defeating Voldemort. The last line of book seven will refer to a statue that Ron and Hermione will unveil.
Not a popular idea but I believe to be likely.
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Tomoé - Feb 3, 2005 11:34 am (#548 of 1297)
Back in business
That's my feeling too, Harry dead, Ron and Hermione alive and not shipped to one another.
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I Am Used Vlad - Feb 3, 2005 4:42 pm (#549 of 1297)
I Am Almighty!
Phelim, it will be the new statue at the Fountain of Magical Brethren. Ron and Hermione will be together, though.
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Kerrie-Louise - Feb 4, 2005 1:09 am (#550 of 1297)
For m2kw I don't think Harry will die. I read a series for children recently and the hero died at the end. It was so annoying more than anything else because the hero had suffered so much during the series. I thought to myself then that it was possible that Harry would die as well but thinking about it, whilst Jo isn't scared of killing off characters we like, Jo is a mother and I think she would rather keep the trio alive. Why shouldn't Harry have a happy ending? After all otherwise we're looking at another family that LV has just wiped out entirely. Why shouldn't he grow up and find acceptance in the wizarding world and finally feels that he belongs somewhere and feel safe?
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I think it might be a Weasley kid, though not Ron. Percy is my assumption, for a lot of reasons we talked about on the alchemy thread (see the post 517 on that thread). I wish it won't be Snape nor Lupin!
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KWeldon - Dec 21, 2004 2:12 pm (#502 of 1297)
I'm thinking it won't be Percy, only because JKR apologizes when she mentions that someone else is going to die. It would be more tragic if a Weasley other than Percy died only because for most readers I would guess he is their least favorite.
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Prefect Marcus - Dec 21, 2004 2:13 pm (#503 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
KWeldon - It's gotta be someone we care about a lot.
Why?
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KWeldon - Dec 21, 2004 2:45 pm (#504 of 1297)
For sheer dramatic effect. Why would JKR play it up only to knock off someone like Mundungus Fletcher? What kind of war is it when your friends and family make it through unscathed? It seems like JKR has to make us (and Harry) feel the effects of the war by taking out someone we really care about.
IMHO.
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Prefect Marcus - Dec 21, 2004 5:08 pm (#505 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
The reason I question it is she isn't playing it up at all like she did in book #5. All she has said is that "a character dies." That could mean just about anybody, even Mark Evans. :-)
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Nathan Zimmermann - Dec 21, 2004 5:44 pm (#506 of 1297)
I would place my sickles on one of the four following candidates
Minerva McGonagall, Molly Weasley, Renus Lupin, Alastor Moody, or Fudge.
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Steve Newton - Dec 21, 2004 6:53 pm (#507 of 1297)
Librarian
Nathan, isn't that 5?
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TomProffitt - Dec 21, 2004 6:56 pm (#508 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
I think that characters we think of as not really involved in the struggle would be just as dramatic as losing someone close.
It would take something very ugly for Lavender, Parvati, or Katie to be killed.
The circumstances of a death are what makes it hit home. Wasn't it Stalin who said "One death is a tragedy, a million are a statistic."
If we hear of dozens of deaths but do not witness them, it will not mean much. We witnessed Cedric's death; who would have suspected before GoF that his death would mean as much to us as it does?
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KWeldon - Dec 22, 2004 6:45 am (#509 of 1297)
We witnessed Cedric's death; who would have suspected before GoF that his death would mean as much to us as it does?
Excellent point. I'm going to also go out on a limb, though, and predict that it's going to be someone Bill's age or younger. Again, for dramatic effect.
she isn't playing it up at all like she did in book #5
Well, it's still early, isn't it? She just announced that it was finished; is she bound to start giving hints before that? Is that what happened before OotP?
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Maria Dunlavey - Dec 23, 2004 5:34 pm (#510 of 1297)
I'm not sure exactly why, but I feel like a Gryffindor in Harry's year will die. This is a possible scenario I have in my head: Seamus Finnigan's (fairly random choice) family is murdered over the summer before 6th year, maybe just before school starts. They're some of the first real casualties in the war, and it shocks everyone. Cedric Diggory's death was just before the end of the school year, and under weird circumstances, which all the students were receiving mixed messages about. Seamus's death awakens them to the idea that the Voldemort War really can touch them, and that danger isn't far away. It will shock and scare them greatly. Not that they won't grieve over his death. A boy in my school died last year, and his death touched the entire school deeply. In fact, it touched the entire county. I just remember that I didn't even know him, and the grief was just tearing me apart, but there was also the terrifying realization that death isn't really all that removed from us. If he can die, any of us can. Cedric Diggory was a triwizard champion, and he died during one of the tasks. As terrible as his death was, none of the students felt like it could happen to them. Seamus's death would awake them to that. (Remember, when I say 'Seamus,' I really mean 'pretty much any ordinary student.')
(This post dedicated to Mathias Bartels and all those who grieved for his death.)
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 24, 2004 10:52 am (#511 of 1297)
No day but Today
You know Maria, I agree. A death at the begining of the year would be very dramatic and have a real affect on the students. Its interesting that you picked Seamus. When I read that first sentence about a kid in Harry's year dying, I immediately thought of him. It seems to me that Seamus' death would be worse(in terms of grieving and sadness)for Dean and Ron, who were closer to him than Harry was, but it would still motivate Harry to do what needed to be done. It would also motivate the other members of the DA to work extra hard, knowing that whatever knowledge Seamus had gained while in the DA wasn't enough.
Sorry thats so long.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Dec 25, 2004 10:55 am (#512 of 1297)
Maria, I agree with all that you have said there is alternate canddate I think would have the same effect, Colin Creevey. I think that Colin's death would create a situation in which Harry felt honor bound to avenge it. Because, in the same way as Harry's hero is Sirius, Colin's hero is Harry. As such if Colin were to be killed Harry would in all likelihood feel the need to avenge Colin.
I think that first student to be killed will be Neville because, he dropped the orb and very likely heard the record of the prophecy when it escaped orb after the orb was broken. As such he is a prime target because, Voldemort wants the information and will do whatever is necessary to get it.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 27, 2004 6:55 am (#513 of 1297)
The theory that Seamus is the next one (make that the next student) to die is interesting.
He didn't join the DA until almost the end, so he has little time to practice defensive magic before Marietta ratted out the DA to Umbridge.
By contrast, Ron, Dean and even Neville, Harry's other Gryffindor classmates, have had much more time to practice defensive magic. Look how well Neville handled himself in the MoM battle.
Of all the Gryffindor fifth years in OotP, Seamus is the most vulnerable to attack, because he had no practical experience in Umbridge's DADA class and almost no practical experience via the DA.
P.S. It'll be interesting to see what Seamus gets for his Defense Against the Dark Arts OWL as compared to the other Gryffindors. I predict he'll get an Acceptable; Neville will be Acceptable; Ron and Dean will be Exceeds Expectations; and Harry will be Outstanding.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Dec 27, 2004 10:14 am (#514 of 1297)
Scoop, I think also Hermione will earn an Oustanding in DADA. I agree the idea of Seamus being the first to die has potential and that his lack of practical defensive skills will contribute to his death.
Now in terms of Slytherins who may die in Book 6 and 7 I think that Goyle will be the first to die because his lack of intelligence will make him an easier mark.
Draco Malfoy I think will also die. We know that Harry's reflexes are much more refined and that he has a quicker reaction time as demonstrated in the confrontation between Harry and Malfoy that Snape intervened in.
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KTO - Dec 27, 2004 12:07 pm (#515 of 1297)
I just finished reading SS and somethign in there made me think that Fred and George might kick the bucket, I should have written it down, anyone remember what it may have been?
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scoop2172000 - Dec 27, 2004 12:59 pm (#516 of 1297)
Thanks, Nathan, for mentioning Hermione. In post #513, I had limited my discussion to the five boys who were fifth-year Gryffindor members of the DA: Harry, Ron, Neville, Dean and Seamus (of course, Seamus didn't join until the end)
The three fifth-year Gryffindor girls we know by name (Hermione, Lavender and Pavarti) also were in the DA, and all of them were in it from the start.
In fact, of all the fifth-year Gryffindors we know of by name, Seamus is the one most vulnerable to attack, because he lacks the practical experience in defensive magic all the others have.
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WeasleyKing - Dec 27, 2004 3:51 pm (#517 of 1297)
I think that Neville will end up battling Bellatrix again and one of them will not survive.
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Maria Dunlavey - Dec 27, 2004 5:00 pm (#518 of 1297)
Just to clarify: When I said "Seamus," I wasn't actually intending to suggest that I thought Seamus would be the most likely candidate to die in the given scenario. I was just using him as an example. I hadn't really thought about who was most likely to die.
Remember, though, that lineage may have more to do with who dies than skill at defending oneself. As good as some members of the D.A. are, I don't think many of them would actually stand a chance of fighting off a Death Eater attack. Seamus is a half-blood, which makes him more likely to be attacked than, say, Neville, a pure-blood (although I suppose Neville might end up being a special case, because of the DoM battle...) Dean would also be likely to be attacked, as he is descended from at least one Muggle (I think — that little side story confuses me a bit). I don't remember if we know Parvati and Lavender's lineages. I do remember that, if it comes down to ability at Defense, Seamus, although it was his first D.A. meeting, nearly managed to conjure a Patronus ("It was definitely something hairy, Harry!"), while Lavender, who'd been present at meetings all along, complained, "And I still — can't — do it!"
Also, Scoop — Neville, an A in DADA? Remember how well he was doing in the D.A. — "He was improving so fast it was quite unnerving and when Harry taught them the Shield Charm, a means of deflecting minor jinxes so they rebounded upon the attacker, only Hermione mastered the charm faster than Neville." (OotP Ch. 25 p. 553 US hardcover) This sentence pretty much implies that Neville is the third best at DADA, after Harry and Hermione. I would be very shocked if those two didn't get O's, and I would also be a bit startled if only two people got O's, so it seems to me that we can logically conclude that Neville will probably get an O. (Wow, that was long for something that minor.)
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 28, 2004 2:37 pm (#519 of 1297)
No day but Today
Maria, I know you were using Seamus as an example, it just got me thinking that it might really happen.
Lavender is muggle born, but I don't know about Parvati. And I agree that Neville will probably do very well on his DADA O.W.L.
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sere35 - Dec 29, 2004 5:21 pm (#520 of 1297)
I think that all the 5th year members of the DA should get O's on their DADA owl's
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Maria Dunlavey - Jan 1, 2005 9:06 am (#521 of 1297)
Yeah, Matilda, I was pretty sure you did, but I just wanted to make sure. Refresh my memory — where did we learn that Lavender is muggle-born?
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Neville Longbottom - Jan 1, 2005 9:26 am (#522 of 1297)
There's a hint in PoA. Harry, Dean and her didn't know what a Grim is, while everybody who was raised in the Wizarding World knew about the Grim. That makes it seem likely that she was raised in the muggle-world. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that she's a muggle-born, after all, Harry and Dean aren't muggleborns either.
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Tomoé - Jan 4, 2005 6:36 am (#523 of 1297)
Back in business
Maybe the occasion to talk to Lavender about the Grim never came up, maybe Lavender is easily scared and her parents didn't dare to introduce her to the Grim, maybe her parents don't believe such a stupid story. It doesn't mean she isn't, but I find the clue pretty thin.
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Maria Dunlavey - Jan 5, 2005 11:49 am (#524 of 1297)
And I read that passage just the other day... Silly, silly me. I have to say that her dedication to divination makes me think that she would know something about it beforehand, but perhaps not. I don't know...
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Cuivienen - Jan 5, 2005 8:12 pm (#525 of 1297)
It certainly seems like she would have read her Divination books before the class began, at least, were she so interested. But perhaps Lavender wasn't interested in Divination before the class began, indeed perhaps not until Binky died and she became convinced of its veracity.
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Mahdi V. - Jan 5, 2005 9:06 pm (#526 of 1297)
I think Dumbledore will die in book 7. Book 6 is too early; with him already dead in book 7, I think all is lost. He needs to be a guiding force until the end. I think that the tragic death of the all-knowing Dumbledore near the end would be a sharp stab to Harry and the Order.
I can't be sure, but I think Harry may die too. "And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives." Maybe Voldemort and Harry both kill each other. It's possible for book 7 to end in this sort of sad finale. And JKR said that the epilogue of book 7 would show what happens to all of the characters after Year 7. I can see the epilogue as giving a description of the characters' future lives and closing with all of Harry's friends getting together and proposing a toast to his memory. Personally, I wouldn't like this intensely bittersweet ending, but the carefully worded prophecy doesn't rule this out.
And JKR loves twisting the plot...
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Joanne R. Reid - Jan 6, 2005 12:55 pm (#527 of 1297)
I've just read all 526 messages on this forum. Regardless of all the marvelous speculation, I'm sticking with my prediction that Percy's going to die in the next book.
We all knew Percy was in trouble when we saw him reading "Prefects Who Gained Power" (CoS, pge 58). Ron confirmed our feelings when he said, "'Course, he's very ambitious, Percy .... He wants to be Minister of Magic ..." In this regard, Percy's actions in OotP is as we had expected.
In spite of him being a git, Molly has not given up on him. She's tried to reconcile with him, but he has spurned her. She's feeling hurt, helpless and frustrated. Worse, she's afraid that he'll be killed before they can reconcile.
Now, consider Percy's infamous letter of advice. When Harry reads it, the enormity of the situation finally gels in his mind. He's extremely troubled at Percy's warning about him. He reflects on their years together at Hogwarts, the time he's lived at the Burrow and the high marks he received from Percy during the second test in GoF. Harry finally realizes the true extent of the MoM's attacks upon him and what Dumbledore has been experiencing since June.
Ron's words and actions, in tearing up the letter and throwing it into the fire, also show us his true feelings about his brother. Ron loves and respects Percy, even if he is a git. He feels betrayed by Percy, and he lashes out in the only way he can.
Percy is a secondary character, but an important one. In this regard, he is not an "important" character, which is significant.
Let's remember how upset JKR was when Sirius was killed. She called him an important character and bemoaned the fact that he had died. In her most recent diclosures, she says other character(s?) will die. But, she did not say that they were important nor does she agonize over their demise. Surely, the death of Ron or Hermione would be a devastating blow. Equally, the deaths of Molly, Arthur, Lupin, DD, et al, would be so significant that JKR would have said something further on the subject. The fact that she was somewhat dismissive of the death is significant.
How Percy dies is a further speculation. I suspect that he will find himself drawn into the Death Eaters. His ambition, his status as a pure-blood and his frustration with regard to his family's lowly status will be the keys to his fall. He will probably begin, like Rookwood, as an informer. Then, Percy will either be forced into a position where he is to kill or sets up a member of his family to be killed. He'll "see the light", but it'll be too late for him. He'll die, becoming something of a martyr.
So, that's my story and I'm sticking to it! :-D!
Sorry this was so long. I just started writing and it got out of hand. Thanks,
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Hollywand - Jan 6, 2005 2:50 pm (#528 of 1297)
Gryffindor
I promise to go off and iron my hands straightaway for saying this, but I'm hoping Petunia is headed for the toaster early on in Book Six to settle the squabble regarding whether she is squib, muggle, or squiggle......
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Tomoé - Jan 7, 2005 12:56 am (#529 of 1297)
Back in business
The final fight is way too late to kill Dumbledore, he have to die before Christmas on book 7, to give Harry his final wake up call, to unite the Houses, to make Harry and Snape work together. If Dumbledore die long before the end of book 7, Voldemort will be more willing to take stupid risks, some members of the order will leave, the Dark lord will seems unstoppable again. The Order members are counting too much on Dumbledore, they don't dare to say black when he say white and that's why Harry when to DoM, no one dared to tell Dumbledore he was wrong. They need to lose him.
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loopy4loopin - Jan 7, 2005 1:42 am (#530 of 1297)
Hi All,
I have a semi-worked out theory about who will die that I'd like to float for discussion.
Before I do, I'd like to say that there seems to be a lot of discussion on this thread about students dying but I think that apart from Harry's gang the students are actually a lot more likely to stay in one piece. After all, they spend most of their year at Hogwarts where they are relatively safe. The adults of course are a different story.
My theory is that as a general rule, those that will die in books 6&7 will be the ones that can't let go of the past. Sirius was the first and he is the most obvious example of someone constantly living under the shadow of the past. Snape is another who is obviously living in the past and I think that at some point he will have to choose to let go of his hatred or die. I think that Neville is also in danger because the past is smothering him (though like I say I think that students generally will be in great danger apart from Harry of course). Lupin obviously, though he may surprise in the end due to his positive outlook. Molly will survive, though I will be very surprised if she doesn't lose a loved one (so will she, I think)....
My ideas on this are obviously very LOTR inspired. I also think that like LOTR if there is a war then those who are active participants or who lose loved ones will somehow have to learn to live with the horror after its all finished. Those who can't survive the new world order after the war or who were too deeply hurt will need an out. Which isn't relevant on this thread.
Any ideas, anyone?
Tania
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Joanne R. Reid - Jan 7, 2005 10:15 am (#531 of 1297)
I think I agree with Loopy4Loopin regarding the major thrust of HP and LOTR. Both are derivations of classic Celtic myths. Within this structure, the hero must overcome enemies and obstacles. However, the hero must also be cursed in some fatal way. Ultimately the hero must learn of his curse, yet go into the final battle against the great enemy knowing that he will die. It is in this final act, of knowing sacrifice, that we see the true measure of the hero and are inspired by his actions to our own great deeds.
Harry has struggled mightily. Harry has seemingly lived a charmed life, in that he has been attacked yet survived. Only now does he know the true measure of his curse. It will be his actions from this point forward that will determine whether he is a hero.
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KWeldon - Jan 7, 2005 1:37 pm (#532 of 1297)
Only now does he know the true measure of his curse. It will be his actions from this point forward that will determine whether he is a hero
I just wanted to say that this is very nicely put.
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Pine Fresh - Jan 7, 2005 3:14 pm (#533 of 1297)
It would be interesting to see the fallout if LV directly or indirectly killed off Narcissa, Lucius, or Bellatrix. Being that these three are all related by marriage or by blood, the murder of one might force the others to revise their loyalty to LV. And Draco would find himself suddenly motherless or fatherless or auntless--like Harry.
If this is the case, Harry and Draco (like Sirius and Snape) might find themselves fighting LV side-by-side.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jan 10, 2005 3:20 pm (#534 of 1297)
No day but Today
Thats something that I also would love to see happen Pine. It doesn't matter who the Slytherin is, if they lost a family member to Voldie, they would feel closer to Harry or farther from Voldie and help unite the houses.
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Accio Sirius - Jan 12, 2005 5:16 pm (#535 of 1297)
Back to the old school Sirius
Given the topic of the thread, I thought you all would be interested to know that the new issue of Atlantic Monthly has a piece called Which Harry Potter Character Gets Whacked? It mainly talks about the odds from a British betting site, although I find it interesting that they don't even list Lupin. Could just be an oversight. Here's the link:
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Tomoé - Jan 12, 2005 7:10 pm (#536 of 1297)
Back in business
Strange thing they put Harry, Jo said he won't die in book 6. But maybe some of the gamblers don't know. I specially like the "Fred and/or George", double odds for one bet!
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KWeldon - Jan 12, 2005 9:08 pm (#537 of 1297)
Harry's love interest??? Don't they mean Harry's former love interest? Even at the very end of OotP, you couldn't call her that.
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TGF - Jan 14, 2005 11:07 am (#538 of 1297)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I fully expect Ron to go out in a big old blaze of glory. Ever hear of the Chess game theory? Ron sacrifices himself to stop the Queen (Bellatrix) so that Harry can go on to checkmate the King (Voldemort).
Also, Ron dying would give Harry that extra nudge towards all-out-confrontation with Voldemort. He hasn't really wanted to kill Voldemort so far, and indeed he seems to think of the whole idea with some reluctance.
A few other people could die as well and trigger that, admitedly, but I'd put my Gallons on Ron.
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total hatred - Jan 15, 2005 3:32 pm (#539 of 1297)
I second to that. Ron will die. Harry has learned his lesson and he likely try to think first before he acts. Ron tends to make irrational decisions for his own personal glory. He trying to show off but he mostly fails in impressing them.
Assuming that R/Hr ship will prosper, Ron will have to contend Hermione closeness to Harry. Even she is tied to Ron, I believe her dedication to Harry will not diminish. Don't argue that they are just friends. They are bound to care for each other. I am talking on the context that a girl care more to a friend than her boyfriend. The boyfriend is bound to be jealous. Knowing Ron, he can either try harder to impress Hermione or disable the opposition so that he has Hermione all be himself. All of these can force Ron to make some risky decisions and that will make him closer to the grave
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Cuivienen - Jan 20, 2005 7:15 pm (#540 of 1297)
I'm going to predict again. These are only my near-certainties (I can't see the series ending without the deaths of these characters):
Vernon Dursley, probably in the beginning of Book 7. Killed by a group of Death Eaters.
Ron, probably about 3/4 of the way through Book 7 during the long ending climax. Killed by a Death Eater.
Bellatrix Black, at about the same time as Ron. Killed by Neville.
Dumbledore, also during the final climax, but after Ron and Bellatrix. Killed by Voldemort and perhaps a group of Death Eaters.
Voldemort, in the third-to-last chapter of Book 7 (leaving enough time for conclusion). Killed by Harry.
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Pine Fresh - Jan 25, 2005 1:11 pm (#541 of 1297)
Personally, I hope Vernon Dursley's fate falls into "the worse than death" category. For parallelism (not to mention justice!), I wouldn't mind seeing him suffer 11 years without hope the way he made Harry suffer.
Perhaps our favorite car snob should be forced forever more to drive a battered Ford Anglia through the streets of Little Whinging. Naked. Without a functioning invisibility spell. (Actually, that might be more of a punishment for the other residents of Little Whinging . . .)
Oh my, aren't I nasty and vindictive today?
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Snuffles - Jan 25, 2005 2:47 pm (#542 of 1297)
Olivia
Eeewwhh a naked Vernon what a horrible thought. Lets hope he doesnt have egg dangling from his moustache like he usually does when he is shouting at Harry!! *Shudders with fright*
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Wand Maker - Jan 25, 2005 6:50 pm (#543 of 1297)
Vernon Dursley, probably in the beginning of Book 7. Killed by a group of Death Eaters. - Cuivienen
Nah. Vernon will be injured seriously enough to need a visit to St Mungos. He'd be so tormented with getting well with the idea of being surrounded by healers trying to do their job.
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TomProffitt - Jan 25, 2005 7:41 pm (#544 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
"Ron tends to make irrational decisions for his own personal glory." --- total hatred
I disagree. Ron is a very protective person and doesn't do it for his own glory. I'm thinking of his sacrifice in PS/SS's chess game. I'm thinking of his taking his own curse when Hermione is called a mudblood in CoS. I'm thinking of Ron braving the spiders in CoS. Ron is not a glory hound (he does like the attention, but he's not in it for the glory). I'll take Ron on my side any day, he's not going to sell me out for the fame like he was Gilderoy Lockhart.
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KTO - Jan 26, 2005 12:39 pm (#545 of 1297)
I agree with TomProfitt: I would take Ron on my side any day. also JK has stated he is most like her best friend, I do not believe she is going to kill him off.
Personally, and I know this is unrealistic, but I would like to see redemption for all, including Tom Riddle. Choices are ours, but often we make bad choices out of fear and self-loathing. I believe in the power of redemption and I think that JK shares my belief. The redemption for Tom Riddle may be that he dies and is finally at peace and that Harry is able to let him go without hate in his heart, and forgive him for the crimes he committed moving Harry closer to the complete state of grace.
I am ready for all the dung bombs.
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Professor Dumbledore - Jan 31, 2005 1:29 pm (#546 of 1297)
I really don't think vernon Dursley has anything to do with the plot. Nothing will happen to him or Dudley, or Aunt Petunia for that matter. They just aren't important enough to the plot to be killed or injured. They will continue being ignorant after the series is over.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Feb 3, 2005 1:01 am (#547 of 1297)
Sorry, but I think Ron and Hermione are going to survive (not I'm not a shipper) and that Harry will die defeating Voldemort. The last line of book seven will refer to a statue that Ron and Hermione will unveil.
Not a popular idea but I believe to be likely.
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Tomoé - Feb 3, 2005 11:34 am (#548 of 1297)
Back in business
That's my feeling too, Harry dead, Ron and Hermione alive and not shipped to one another.
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I Am Used Vlad - Feb 3, 2005 4:42 pm (#549 of 1297)
I Am Almighty!
Phelim, it will be the new statue at the Fountain of Magical Brethren. Ron and Hermione will be together, though.
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Kerrie-Louise - Feb 4, 2005 1:09 am (#550 of 1297)
For m2kw I don't think Harry will die. I read a series for children recently and the hero died at the end. It was so annoying more than anything else because the hero had suffered so much during the series. I thought to myself then that it was possible that Harry would die as well but thinking about it, whilst Jo isn't scared of killing off characters we like, Jo is a mother and I think she would rather keep the trio alive. Why shouldn't Harry have a happy ending? After all otherwise we're looking at another family that LV has just wiped out entirely. Why shouldn't he grow up and find acceptance in the wizarding world and finally feels that he belongs somewhere and feel safe?
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 551 to 600)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 10:52 am
Catherine - Feb 4, 2005 6:05 am (#551 of 1297)
Canon Seeker
Kerrie-Louise,
I think that even if Harry does die, it's not really the end, after all. Dumbledore says that death is "the next great adventure" and Harry doesn't seem to fear the Veil. He even finds a strange beauty in the archway.
I won't "spoil" the last book of the Narnia series, but that would be a good example of death as a "beginning," versus an end.
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Joanne R. Reid - Feb 4, 2005 9:04 am (#552 of 1297)
Hi,
In this and in other forums, I have argued that JKR's Harry Potter stories follow the standard Celic mythology.
Basically, it's a good vs. evil story. Evil attacks. Good defends, because it is forced to do so or perish. Evil can use any methods of attack or defense ... after all, it is evil. Good, however, is constrained. Good cannot use evil methods without it becoming Evil. Therefore, Good constantly teeters on the edge of destruction. In the end, Evil destroys itself.
This story line is further complicated by the Celtic hero. The hero must be innocent, initially. The hero must suffer at the hand of Evil. The hero must learn of his doom and face it. The hero must be tempted by Evil, but must eschew it. The hero must knowingly face his own death in the final battle, which often includes a personal commitment to self-sacrifice.
Celtic mythology is fairly evenly split between those stories in which the hero dies and those in which he lives. However, those heros that are killed are generally taken up by the gods or some other device is used to ensure that he did not die in vain. Further, since he has ascended with the gods, he really didn't die anyway. The few in which the hero just dies and has a huge funeral with thousands weeping and wailing seem feckless and ineffectual.
So, based on millenia of Celtic tradition, lore, mythos, etc., Harry will survive, but, he won't get the girl.
Regardless, I'm really excited to see which variant JKR actually writes. Accio, Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks,
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TomProffitt - Feb 7, 2005 8:01 pm (#553 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
Jo consistently ends her books on an up note. Even 4 & 5 which had the deaths of significant characters ended on up notes. This leads me to believe Harry will survive.
Everyone else is fair game. I guess I give Harry the best chance of surviving and Voldemort the least. I put everyone else somewhere in the middle. There's no one I'd say is definitely going to die and no one I would say is definitely going to live.
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Anamari Fernandez - Feb 7, 2005 11:31 pm (#554 of 1297)
I don't think any of the main charachters would die (Ron, Hermione, Dumbledore) and with mr. and mrs. Weasley, I hope not, that would just be mean. I'm thinking maybe Tonks since she is such a klutz, but anyway, thinking about this things makes me really uncomfortable... Hope is someone we don't really care about (a Creevy brother for instance)
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Feb 8, 2005 12:48 pm (#555 of 1297)
No day but Today
I care about the Creevy's Anamari. I don't think that anyone mentioned more than once is an unimportant character, thus they are worthy of caring about.I really don't want to see any of them die, except of course the evil ones.
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MoonRider - Feb 8, 2005 5:19 pm (#556 of 1297)
(The rest of my "eye theory" didn't wash-----but I'm stickin' with this part.)
I'm thinkin', maybe people with gray/silvery eyes: Luna, Mr. Ollivander, Kreacher, Draco Malfoy, and Lucius Malfoy.
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pottermom34 - Feb 8, 2005 11:08 pm (#557 of 1297)
Is it July yet? I can't really say who I think it will be, I think we're all going to be thrown for a loop. I think it'll be someone that no one expected. ( I hope that made sense)
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dizzy lizzy - Feb 8, 2005 11:43 pm (#558 of 1297)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
Ooh yes it made sense. I'm not even game enough to even have a guess. I want it to be a complete and utter surprise to me.
Lizzy
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Fawkes Egg - Feb 13, 2005 10:18 am (#559 of 1297)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
Pine Fresh: Perhaps our favorite car snob should be forced forever more to drive a battered Ford Anglia through the streets of Little Whinging. Naked. Without a functioning invisibility spell. (Actually, that might be more of a punishment for the other residents of Little Whinging . . .)
This nearly made me choke on my chai!
I live in a Surrey town with large square houses, nice neat gardens and prim but nosy neighbours - trust me, anything like what you suggest, Pine Fresh, would give some of the old dears a stroke!
Who will die? Dumbledore must go, I think. Right before a major battle. Everyone relies on him far too much. Apart from that I'm quite happy to see where JKR takes us!
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João Paulo Costa - Feb 19, 2005 6:30 am (#560 of 1297)
(Attention: long post)
Hello all. This post relats my feelings for the death or surviving of characters.
[This has just been out of my head now, and have not think much about it. I also have not read the posts in here, specifically not to be too much influenced]
- Harry Potter: I believe he will survive the series, but whit a lot of personal loss, either of one or more close persons or loss due to a big injury.
- Hermione: I do not believe she will die. However, I do believe that she will be seriously injured in one of the final battles (assuming there is one). Through Hermione is intelligent and an active person, I do not think she can handle much in a battle.
- Ron Wesley: for me, Ron has a serious chance of dying in the next books. If that happens (trough I hope not), I'd say his death would be to protect someone (Harry or Harmione).
- Arthur and Molly Wesley: I do not believe that neither of them shall die. This is more intuitive that based in any actual reasons that could be derived form the books.
- Percey Wesley: I do not think that he will die. But I think that he will see the error of his ways and join the Order of Pheonix.
- Fred and George Wesley: I have a feeling that one of the twins will not survive the whole series, and he will die, but quite by accident.
- Charlie and Bill Wesley: one of them might be killed, and, if that happens, it will be off-screen... why? just a feeling
- Ginny Weasley: I have no idea, through...
- Neville: Neville is also a big candidate for not surviving the series, for me. First, because there is the profecy (what if DD is mistaken and it is Neville that is the one that must kill LV?). Also, his building courage will not be stopped, which means that he will want to be placed in a continuous risky place (or,"in the front line") of the war: that means that he will be exposed to greater risks...
- Remus Lupin: I do not think that he will die. But let me state that I'm being VERY biased, for Lupin is one of my favorite characters.
- Dumbeldore: I do not think unplauseble that DD could not die. I can well see him sacrifing his life for the defeat of Voldemort, but only if: a)There wold be no other choice; or b) he would have already made preparations so that his work in the Order of Pheonix and in Hogwarts would carry on. The death of Dumbledore would be something brutal, in terms of implications in the Wizarding world, and in terms of the plot...
- Severus Snape: Snape shall not die. I cannot see him sacrificing his life for another charater, and I thnk he is too smart and cautious to get himself involved in an open battle. The other strong possibility is that his work for the order (which we do not know what is) we backfire somehow...
- McGonagall, Flitwick, Sprout: the main other teachers and head of houses in Hogwarts shall surelly survive the series.
- Hagrid: Hagrid seems to me a rather almost indestructible character. That leads to the idea that he shall survive the series.
- the Malfoys: these are a family that siply put, shall not disapear. Even (or speacially) if Lord Voldemort is vanquished, they shall always be around to remind that there are always more intolerant, arrogant and mean people in any society.
- The Order of the Phenix: like Sirius, probably severall of its members shall die in the next books. But I do not want to alongate in this topic,or I have no clues...
- The Death Eaters: Like OoP, their conterpart, and like Sirius, probably some will not survive. Notice, however, that in the battle of the departmentof mysteries, all of them were taken prisioner, and none died...
- Lord Voldemort: I specifically let this charater to be the last. I have stated in another trend that it seemed more or less assured that he shall be defeated by the end of the series. We do not know, however, how this could be done. JK Rowling asked an important question: "Why Dumbledore did not tried to kill Voldemert?" Why not indeed? Maybe Voldemort CANNOT be killed (I do not say defeated). Maybe his downfall shall be done in a completely different way that we are expecting...
Well, this was rater a long post. I can only hope that it will not be cut. Of course that any feedback shll be apreciated.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Feb 19, 2005 10:45 pm (#561 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"Why not indeed? Maybe Voldemort CANNOT be killed (I do not say defeated)."
You cannot kill evil, it is a human condition. You can defeat in a time of threat, but it will resurface again and again as long as there is mankind.
Hollywand, I do believe I feel the groove of the waltz now! Now to just find time to vocalize.
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fleur-de-lys - Mar 2, 2005 3:05 pm (#562 of 1297)
Hi everyone! This is my first post, although I have been enjoying reading for a while. I browsed the thread tittles looking for one such as this, for I wanted to start one myself. I’m just a late bloomer-forumly speaking. It seems so strange to be discussion these deaths, as many of them are just kids. Anyway, here are my two knuts, or maybe three,and some reasons why:
I also believe that, should Harry die, JK will need to enter the witness protection program. If she does that to us, I am going to have a huge bonfire and burn all my copies of Harry Potter as well as my DVDs. That said, I do not believe it is impossible for her to kill him off. This story, especially the ending, has been in her mind long before it was ever on paper, long before it was published and long before we all fell in love with Harry Potter and the wizarding world. Therefore, she could never have known how tragic, and dangerous for her, it would be to kill him. But I do not believe he will die—wishful thinking.
Ron and Hermione will either survive or die together. They are too much of an item for one to die and not the other. I do believe that Viktor Krum will die early in the battle and this tragedy will drive home the reality of students dying and also drive Hermione and Ron into each others’ arms for strength and comfort. I do believe that Ron will be gravely injured and linger between life and death for a time.
I don’t see Snape dying to save Harry. There are a few characters I see at the end and I think he’s one of them.
Voldemort has to die, just to redeem our faith in good overcomes evil. If Voldy (I love this nick name) lives and Harry dies, there is no hope for the world. If Voldy lives and Harry lives, then the story is not over and there will be an eighth book—YEAH! So, therefore, Voldy must die.
Lucius and Nacissa will die at the hands of Voldy-or a death-eather, most likely. Possibly in front of Draco. This will dramatically rock Draco’s world and begin the reuniting of the two houses.
I love the idea of Bella being caught by Neville, and possibly his parents (I must read that thread), but being handed over to the dementors, as Neville is much to big a person to stoop to the DeathEater level.
Peter must die, not saving Harry. He doesn’t deserve that honor, but in some low and revolting way.
Percy will sacrifice his life to save Ron or Arthur or both.
I don’t think the Dursleys will need to be killed for Voldy to get to Harry at Privet Dr. Perhaps the blood taken from Harry to bring Voldy back has cancelled that protection.
Lupin will not die. I think this is more wishful thinking (as I really like Lupin) and sentimentality. I don’t think there needs to be one last surviving Maurader, but, for Harry, one last surviving connection to his parents. Call me a sentimental fool, but there you go.
I can’t really make a statement on Dumbledorr. I just don’t see his passing as that significant. Perhaps I’m missing something.
Hagrid will survive, if for no other reason than to see him marry Madame Maxine in his hairy brown suit. Perhaps Grawp will die to save him.
A few others I see snuffing it, possibly, but without any real reason behind my reasoning are one or both of the Creevy brothers, Moody, Olivander (one of the first deaths and the first of the shopkeepers), Kingsley Shacklebolt, many other deatheaters and another student or two. There has to be one student, significant but not extremely integral that dies, like Seamus or Crabbe or Goyle, someone like that.
There are those that I definitely see surviving to the end. Tonks is one. She is just one of those characters that you think is going to kick the bucket and maybe has, but she turns up at the end with her positive attitude and fun-loving approach to life. I see Fudge alive, but completely befuddled that he is still alive. Perhaps Dumbledorr or Hargrid saves him. I had thought that Dobby was a good candidate for snuffage, but I’m beginning to see him at the end as well. Arthur Weasley definitely survives, Molly I’m not so sure about. I also see Fred and George at the end. The Weasley twins we have with us always. They make life too much fun.
To add to my theory of Rona and Hermione, I see in the epilogue Ron becoming Headmaster of Hogwarts (it could happen) and Hermione persuing and career in Wizard-Muggle Relations. And creating the largest Weasley family yet. I also see Harry persuing a career and as Auror, if they are still as necessary. And if not, he will become a record-breaking, hall-of-famer on the championship Quidditch team that he founded.
I just had another inkling of a theory. What if Ron dies, Draco turns good and Draco and Hermione end up together and Draco becomes Minister of Magic? Sorry, but this idea just popped into my head.
At any rate, I think we are in for a few rough times in the next book and, knowing how Sirius’ death affected me, I will definitely be keeping the tissue box close by.
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Weeny Owl - Mar 4, 2005 2:04 pm (#563 of 1297)
Draco and Hermione end up together
JKR has already said that won't happen.
I do like your term, "snuffage." That made me chuckle.
I do see either Molly or Arthur dying, and at least one of the twins, just because it would have such a huge impact on everyone at Hogwarts. I don't see any of the Weasleys dying before the seventh book, though.
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fleur-de-lys - Mar 4, 2005 2:48 pm (#564 of 1297)
hi weeny, thanks for clarifying the draco-hermione thing. i came up with that at the last miniute, but it really scared me. what a thought. but i certainly hope i'm wrong about a lot of other things on my earlier post too. if i come up with any other good terms, i'll let you know. alas, that may have been my one and only allotment this century.
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fleur-de-lys - Mar 8, 2005 10:37 am (#565 of 1297)
hey, weeny, was just wondering...where does it say that draco and hermione won't end up together? i don't remember reading that everywhere, of course, i'm sure i haven't read or heard every single word that jk has said. although i'd like to.
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Amilia Smith - Mar 8, 2005 12:33 pm (#566 of 1297)
Fleur: I'm not Weeny, but I can answer your question. It was at the World Book Day Chat in March 2004.
Chibimono: Do you have any future plans in particular for Draco Malfoy? JK Rowling replies -> I've got plans for all my characters. Actually, this is a really good place to answer a question about Draco and Hermione, which a certain Ms. Radcliffe is desperate to have answered. Will they end up together in book six/seven? NO! The trouble is, of course, that girls fancy Tom Felton, but Draco is NOT Tom Felton! (My daughter likes TF very much too, because he taught her how to use a diablo)
Hope that helps,
Mills.
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João Paulo Costa - Mar 10, 2005 8:56 am (#567 of 1297)
Hello, fleur-de-lys, I've just read your message from 2 March, stating which whitches and wizards shall live or die.
I do not mean to be rude, but as I was reading it, it seems to me that you are trying to get everybody that appears more friendly or that have (to our knowledge) made no harm, to survive the next books, and thus the next war in the wizarding world, as the more nasty characters, and the more secondary characters that we are unfamiliar with (and therefore have little empathy to) could be killed.
I rembember reading somewhere, in an interview with JK Rowling, that she stated that the war had started and so people will die. I do think that more than one of the main characters shall perish, or suffer a deep loss, including characters that we fell empathy with.
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fleur-de-lys - Mar 11, 2005 11:03 am (#568 of 1297)
hello, back, joao. i don't mean to sound catty, if i do, but this is a forum to share one's opinions. i, also, just reread my post and there were a few of the order i marked for death (ooo that sounds creepy). anyway, i've stated on other threads that i am a sentimental fool, so it would only be fair for me to keep around many of the good guys and not too many of the bad guys. also, i think anyone rooting for good versus evil will be inclined to hope that most of the good guys will make it and most of the bad guys will snuff it. i do realize, after reading your post, that jk did call this a war and there are many casualties in way, many that we wish wouldn't happen. so perhaps i am a bit lenient in my list, but that's the sentimental fool coming out.
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Weeny Owl - Mar 18, 2005 12:47 pm (#569 of 1297)
Amilia, thanks for answering fleur's question. It was that chat I was referring to.
As for sentimentality, I tend to be in that corner myself.
There are quite a few characters I just don't want to see die, but that doesn't mean JKR views them the way I do or that she wouldn't kill a few off.
I can't really say I WANT to see anyone dead, but if people can't redeem themselves, then I wouldn't be too brokenhearted to see some of them dealt with that way...Bella, Mulciber, Macnair, Dolohov, the Malfoys, Umbridge, and a few others who are known Death Eaters.
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pottermom34 - Mar 18, 2005 3:45 pm (#570 of 1297)
I just mentioned this on the Percy thread, and I hate to suggest it, but what if Percy is the one to die and on his deathbed is when they finally make amends.
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fleur-de-lys - Mar 18, 2005 6:02 pm (#571 of 1297)
Pottermom34, That would be very sad, but reassuring that they make ammends. However, I still hold out hope that they make ammends and band together long before andy Weasley deaths. I still see Percy risking, and possibly giving, his life to save his father and/or Ron. But we shall see. July can't come soon enough for me!
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Steve Newton - Mar 18, 2005 8:06 pm (#572 of 1297)
Librarian
Weeny, it would make Molly a dangerous person to be around for the last book. Meaning dangerous to her enemies and her friends. If the last time she spoke with Percy they had a fight it would eat at her.
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Hexenhammer - Apr 11, 2005 12:46 am (#573 of 1297)
Edited by Apr 11, 2005 12:47 am
Hagrid's dead. In the first book someone had said Hagird would rather die than betray Dumbledore.
Temper, Temper
-Hexenhammer
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Classicsquid592 - Apr 17, 2005 4:42 pm (#574 of 1297)
A while ago I made a few predictions in this thread and in the general predictions thread (http://wc6.worldcrossing.com/webx?224@@11f2d8a5@.1dde27ad/766) that relied on the assumption that Dumbledore would die. Dumbledore is the only character on the cover of book six to appear other than Harry, another small piece possibly pointing towards the death of Dumbledore.
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frogface - Apr 21, 2005 1:36 am (#575 of 1297)
Does anyone think Moody is going to get zapped? For some reason I do, he went down quite early in the MoM battle which could very well be a foreshadowing.
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Ruthie - Apr 24, 2005 5:23 am (#576 of 1297)
I think Dumbledore will die because (as I've said in another thread) I believe Voldemort will try to take control of/destroy Hogwarts and possibly that's where Harry and Voldemort have their 'final confrontation' perhaps a little too presumptuous I know anyway, if Voldemort wanted to take Hogwarts I strongly believe he won't be able to do it with DD in his way....But at the same time I think DD's death seems too predictable for JKR. July seems so far away!!!!!!!!1
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Finn BV - Apr 25, 2005 6:53 pm (#577 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
About Percy dying –
It has been said a lot that he might die just trying to make ends meet. But we already know how Molly feels about this. In GoF she apologizes to Fred and George for saying they didn't get enough OWLs after the QWC incident. If this were to happen again, JKR would have to have another "Woes of Mrs. Weasley" Chapter; this time, though, it would include - if not solely be - Percy.
Also, who says that a Weasley has to die? I know not anybody in particular has, still, it's just like JKR to show that a family of nine can stay a family of nine.
PS Harry will not die. You can make up any reasons why you think he will die, but there is not a single person in the world who can just kill off the world's most famous:
wizard
children's character
title character of the six, likely to be seven, No. 1 Bestseller Lists Hits
title character of the soon-to-be highest budget film in history.
Sorry, JKR. No offense. Not even the bravest Gryffindor has that courage.
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Miriam Huber - Apr 26, 2005 2:35 am (#578 of 1297)
Well, fbv, you would be absolutely right about Harry, if it were not for JKRs "secret diary". I think the question whether or not Harry dies at the end is of such importance that she decided rather early in the process of writing the series, if not right at the beginning. And at that time, Harry was -- in the muggle world -- not at all famous...
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Shannon aka Brammwell - Apr 26, 2005 8:44 am (#579 of 1297)
Financial Services Representative
I agree with the point that Harry will not die, in an interview JKR said that she'd had no plans to write an eighth book that who knows, she might decide to write one ten years from now, which she wouldn't be able to if she were to get rid of her central character.
As for who will die, I'm guessing that it may be Mrs. Weasley; she's the thread that holds that family together, and she has also become a second mother to Harry, which we've seen in the past can be detrimental. It would also create a bond between Harry and Ron having both lost very important people in their lives to Voldemort. Further, it would allow Ron to see the cost of Harry's popularity that he has been envious of all these years. Finally, it would bring Percy back into the family fold.
I'm guessing as the war moves into full force that we will loose more of the Order; Moody and Shakefield
I don't believe Lupin will die but I do believe he will finally have his vengeance on Peter and Peter will fall at his hands/teeth(Also because Peter deserves to be mauled to death by a werewolf)!
Of the three (Ron, Hermione, and Harry) I believe we will loose our beloved Hermione, even though she is the most clever we've found in OofP in the MoM that she is not infallable.
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Finn BV - Apr 26, 2005 10:39 am (#580 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Miriam - I understand your point, that JKR wrote the last chapter almost when she started the whole series; but I do believe that she has also said that she has revised it numerous times. It's probably unlikely that she would change if the main character would die or not, but… hey, you never know. *wink* ;-)
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Nicole Bebout - Apr 26, 2005 11:24 am (#581 of 1297)
I am extrememly, and I mean extrmemly afraid that Severus Snape might be the one to be killed off. For some reason, I am totally in love with Snape, and would be heartbroken if he did die, but it seems that sooner or later his cover as a spy will be blown...and when that happens Voldie will be out to get him.
I have also had fears about Lupin being in danger, he is a werewolf, and Voldermort *did* give Peter a silverhand....it just seems fitting that Peter would finally kill the rest of the Marauders (I hold him accountable for Sirius' death). But then I also think that Voldermort will kill him as well.
Some people have said that Harry might die at the end of the series, but I don't think that will happen.
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Steve Newton - Apr 26, 2005 11:42 am (#582 of 1297)
Librarian
I started this thread on June 20, 2004. I think that about June 20 this year I will start to do a summation of peoples guesses. That gives me about a month to beat the release of HBP. I hope that it is enough time.
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Finn BV - Apr 26, 2005 12:58 pm (#583 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Good luck reading through all 582 posts, Steve! Do you think you will list the people by number of posters who thought they would die, or by order of suggested death date (Book 6 People/Book 7 People)? I think it's a very interesting idea to do a summation of a thread. I'm relatively new to the forum, so I'm not acquainted with it, but you sound like the one to do it, being a librarian. *wink* ;-)
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Steve Newton - Apr 26, 2005 1:17 pm (#584 of 1297)
Librarian
Number of posters will be my initial tally. Time will decide what else.
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frogface - Apr 26, 2005 1:29 pm (#585 of 1297)
"Miriam - I understand your point, that JKR wrote the last chapter almost when she started the whole series; but I do believe that she has also said that she has revised it numerous times. It's probably unlikely that she would change if the main character would die or not, but… hey, you never know. *wink* ;-)"
I think you should remember something JKR said about killing off Sirius. Apparently after writing his death in OoP, she cried, and she was devestated. Her husband said something to her like "Why don't you just change it so he lives" and JKR replied with something like "It doesn't work like that". And I agree, literiture doesn't work like that, at least not most of the time. Most writers (and I include JKR in this) have a plan and they stick to it, if they are writing a series such as this one then they lay clues and do certain things within the storyline because that is what is required to reach their end of the series. Sirius had to die, and if Harry has to die, then he will, and I think that....no I HOPE that if JKR has planned for Harry to die, she will stick to that, because that is the way it works. I don't believe she will change the ending of her series just because some of us won't like it. Also, to adress the point of not being able to continue the series with Harry dead, I don't agree. Harry is the main character yes, but he isn't the only character, and look at the Middle Earth Stories, by JRR Tolkien, or the STAR WARS novels. They all have central characters, some of which die, but that doesn't mean the end of the stories, they simply adopt a new main character. If JKR comes up with a new story that she wants to set up in the same world, then it would be entirely possible to do so whether Harry is dead or not.
After saying all of that however, I'm not saying its certain he will die, I'm just saying you shouldn't say that he deffinatly won't, because you don't know...you shouldn't really say that about any prediction, particularly when analysing a series like this, which has been very difficult to predict so far.
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Finn BV - Apr 26, 2005 8:02 pm (#586 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Point well taken, Frogface. Thanks for reminding me about the death of Sirius. I had forgotten that - "it doesn't work like that." You're right - it has been difficult to predict. If anything, that's true!
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 26, 2005 8:40 pm (#587 of 1297)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
My feelings: Ms. Weasley-end of book 6 Percy-book 6 Ron-final battle of book 7 Dumbledore-middle of book 7
Mikie
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Ponine - Apr 28, 2005 7:08 pm (#588 of 1297)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
I don't know.. Harry has lost so many - she simply CAN'T kill off any more of his loved ones and/or semi-parental figures, can she???? I mean, ok, I admit I am very worried about Dumbledore. But I would like to think that Molly, Remus, Ron and Hermione are safe simply by proximity to Harry. Neville on the other hand, I could see dying a tragic, yet heroic death. I hate to say it, but I am also really worried about Severus... and somehow Fred and George and Ginny... Maybe we should appreciate this point in time when everyone is alive and reasonably well. I may wish the HBP never came out once I read it, and if Ron goes, I go. (not that I adore the boy
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Joanne R. Reid - Apr 29, 2005 10:21 am (#589 of 1297)
Hi, Frogface,
I have one comment regarding a novelist and their characters.
Regardless of your intentions for your characters, the moment you create them, your characters in your novel take on a life of their own. Events that you carefully contrive, seem to conspire against you. Slowly, but inevitably people and events stray from the course that you intended them to travel. Instead, they, like your children, become independent of you.
After a while, the novelist becomes the first reader of a book. Words flow. People act and interact. Events happen. The future becomes history before your eyes. You no longer control events. You merely chronicle them for others to read at a later time.
And, when your characters die, in spite of your best efforts to save them from their fate, you weep. You were helpless to change their destiny, even though you could see it coming. You grieve long before others can know of your loss.
And, much later, you shrug as your readers ask you why that character had to die. You shrug because you don't know why. It happened before your eyes in real time, and you weren't able to do anything about it. And your readers will never understand that you had nothing to do with it. You only reported it as it happened.
Thanks,
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frogface - Apr 29, 2005 1:15 pm (#590 of 1297)
But in JKR's mind, all the events in the series have already happened, no? They maybe in the future tense to us, because we don't know the outcome, but she has already effectively written the story (just in her mind instead of on paper). Yes I agree that even a writer cannot completely control the way the character's grow, that becomes a subconcious process if the character is well enough written. But that is not to say that the author loses control completely. Almost every story has a point, a moral or a lesson to be displayed, and the ending of the story is nearly always integral to these things. I believe the Harry Potter series has many messages in it, messages about Predjudice, love, hate, war (those last three were SO Shakespeare :p ), bravery, choices and so on. For JKR to change her mind about the end of the series after already begining to show it to other people could completely send these messages out of the window. I maintain that JKR has a plan, and that she will stick to it. It doesn't seem like her to change something as significant as Harry's fate at the end of the books because other people want her to. Whatever happens to Harry at the end of the series will be the most significant event in the entire series I imagine - after all this is Harry's story. If he dies then I can't imagine a more important event. So I do not believe that JKR will change the ending that drastically, I believe that if she does plan to kill Harry off, then she will stick to that plan. Like I said before I would be disapointed if she did change the ending just because other people want her to. Literiture maybe a form of entertainment, but it is so much more than that, and its sole purpose is not necessarily to please the readers and give them what they want to hear. Although I remain unchanged in my opinion I do admire what you said though, it was very insightful and did force me to think about my arguements and reminded me to try and keep an open mind - I think you have to when considering something as important as "Will Harry die or not?".
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Joanne R. Reid - May 2, 2005 2:20 pm (#591 of 1297)
Hi, Frogface,
Again, I agree with you ... in general. Of course, my comment was in regard to yours concerning the death of Sirius Black. He could have been one of those characters that JKR intended to do one thing, who ended up doing another. That is often the fate of secondary characters, no matter how attached to them we become.
At the same time, the fate of Harry, Ron and Hermione was established at an early time. JKR had determined whether this would be Comedy or Tragedy. However, by writing a children's book, she has virtualy assured us that this will not be a tragedy.
Therefore, Harry must become the great hero. He must know his doom. He must face it knowing that it will probably mean his death, and that he can avoid it if he wishes. However, to become the hero he must be, he will accept his fate and overcome all adversity to defeat the enemy and win the great reward.
The only real questions are how will he win, and who will die? And, for my part, I'd guess that our three heroes will survive and prosper.
Hey, it's my story and I'm sticking to it! ;-)
Thanks,
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Hermionefan(#1) - May 29, 2005 6:22 pm (#592 of 1297)
missing my picture!!!!! *cry cry cry*
Oh, I don't think this is definitely not a tragedy. Didn't JKR say she never intended it to be a children's book, so she put in lots of twists and things. I don't think that just because they sell her book in the children's section she'll change her mind about the genre.
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Choices - May 29, 2005 6:28 pm (#593 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Joanne - I sure hope you are right!! I want it to be a clever ending that will knock my socks off, but I want our trio to come through it OK and live happily ever after. :-)
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Good Evans - May 30, 2005 5:38 am (#594 of 1297)
Practically perfect in every way
can I pull on a much used parralell? the Narnia chronicles end with death - but constant life in Narnia. I cried when I first read it as a child but also reasoned that it was the only ending that could have happened, what life could Lucy really have had in a non Narnia world? Harry may or may not die, but just being a "childrens book" does not preclude this from happening.
We know Sirius is gone, but what is beyond the Veil? - I know this is another thread, bare with me - maybe circumstances will dictate the only option for Harry will be to step in to the veil and join Sirius. It may seem the only thing that made sense, when we finally get there, and again he wont necessarily be dead - just gone to where ever the veil leads, and be reunited with Sirius.
I dont want him to die - like choices I want the trio to live happily ever after, but so much angst and drama - is that the way that we are being lead? Could Harry live a "normal" (well normal for a wizard) life?
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Joanne R. Reid - May 30, 2005 2:53 pm (#595 of 1297)
HI, Good Evans II,
I don't see why not. I am sure that amongst your acquaintances, you have known men who have fought in battle. As a brat, I knew many who had lived through hell. As an adult, I have worked closely with military personel who have fought, killed, been wounded and even maimed.
Although some have had a difficult time returning to a humdrum civilian life, by far the majority have seized it joyfully. Most of them have returned to their loved ones, raised families, persued their dreams and tried to live their lives as well as is possible. Some of them are so meek and mild that you'd never know they had once been fearsome warriors. And, that's the way they want it to be.
So, why wouldn't Harry, who has never known a day without fear, not want to live in peace, to raise his family and to live his life as well as possible?
Thanks,
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Mrs Brisbee - May 31, 2005 7:49 am (#596 of 1297)
Well said, Joanne R. Reid.
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Steve Newton - Jun 17, 2005 8:39 am (#597 of 1297)
Librarian
I have started making my counts of predicted deaths. It is going to take a while. Many of the posts have been comments, not predictions. This is my only chance to get through. I am not counting those deaths that people think may occur. Too wishy washy for me. Only definite statements.
When I get my whole list done I will have to sort out the double picks of people who have voted more than once. I'm using a spread sheet so I should be able to do this. I am not far along yet and have already had to make some quick on the fly decisions. This means that my count could be off, but, its what I can do.
PS, I did a spell check and it didn't like the word 'wishy.' One of its suggestions was 'washy.' Seems strange somehow.
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essie125 - Jun 24, 2005 1:31 am (#598 of 1297)
Jo, of course I think about Alan when I think about Snape, Who wouldn't think about Alan all day every day eh.
Edited Jun 24, 2005 2:05 am
My predictions:
Book 6: I think LV's posse will still lay low, making the wizarding world believe that the ministry was wrong. Mean while LV will be gathering followers. In the mean while the OoP is doing the same thing. But it will not come to a big battle yet. The first muggle kilings will however occur. I think muggle family members of wizards are in danger. Like Dean Thomas his family and Seamus'. Making Harry angrier with LV. In the end there will be an unavoidable climax but the deathtoll will not be all that high. Then Harry goes back to 4PD
Book 7:
In the beginning of this book Harry will be at 4PD. Deatheaters will come to this house and will kill Vernon and Dudley while Harry will try desperately to safe them. Petunia will show emotional magic late in life and survive. Harry will have contacted the order, because after the MoM tragedy Dumbleodre will have made sure that Harry can safely contact the order when he wants to. Harry will be saved by the order and he and Petunia will be taken to safety. Harry will return to Hogwarts for his final year. While he is there there will be more and more news about battles between ordermembers and deatheaters. More and more people will die. people very close to Harry like Lupin, and/or a Weasley/Granger family member will die. This will set the trio of. At the end of the school year there will be a massive battle between LV and all his creatures, and supporters and the slytherin students on the one hand and Dumbledore, other order members and their supporters and creatures. Harry, Ron, Hermione and friends will be there too. A lot of people on both sides will die like Dumbledore and members of the Malfoy family Ron and Hermione will either get badly wounded or they will survive. LV and wormtail will get away. Harry will want revenge and will try and find LV and Wormtail. Wormtail is in debt with Harry so he will try to protect Harry leading to his death. And then the big battle between LV and Harry will take place. Harry will get help from people wjo find out where he went. but in the end he will have to do it on his own. LV will die, and Harry will die to, because he is badly wounded. Ron and Hermione will either both die or both live, because they can't live without eachother.
This is how I think the last two books will go.
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Veritaserum - Jun 24, 2005 7:50 am (#599 of 1297)
Go Jays!
Wow, I just realized how sad these last two books are going to be!
One thing I noticed when reading OOP last night: In chapter two, uncle Vernon says something like "Do your lot have the death penalty?" in a hopeful voice. That struck me as rather foreboding and sinister.
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frogface - Jun 24, 2005 10:26 am (#600 of 1297)
What I found even more sinister is the Veil in MoM. Its being discussed on the Sirius Black thread I think. Maybe the veil was created as a tool of execution rather than using Avera Kedavra? But if you link the veil to Vernon's question, it could almost be seen as a bit of a hint don't you think?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Canon Seeker
Kerrie-Louise,
I think that even if Harry does die, it's not really the end, after all. Dumbledore says that death is "the next great adventure" and Harry doesn't seem to fear the Veil. He even finds a strange beauty in the archway.
I won't "spoil" the last book of the Narnia series, but that would be a good example of death as a "beginning," versus an end.
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Joanne R. Reid - Feb 4, 2005 9:04 am (#552 of 1297)
Hi,
In this and in other forums, I have argued that JKR's Harry Potter stories follow the standard Celic mythology.
Basically, it's a good vs. evil story. Evil attacks. Good defends, because it is forced to do so or perish. Evil can use any methods of attack or defense ... after all, it is evil. Good, however, is constrained. Good cannot use evil methods without it becoming Evil. Therefore, Good constantly teeters on the edge of destruction. In the end, Evil destroys itself.
This story line is further complicated by the Celtic hero. The hero must be innocent, initially. The hero must suffer at the hand of Evil. The hero must learn of his doom and face it. The hero must be tempted by Evil, but must eschew it. The hero must knowingly face his own death in the final battle, which often includes a personal commitment to self-sacrifice.
Celtic mythology is fairly evenly split between those stories in which the hero dies and those in which he lives. However, those heros that are killed are generally taken up by the gods or some other device is used to ensure that he did not die in vain. Further, since he has ascended with the gods, he really didn't die anyway. The few in which the hero just dies and has a huge funeral with thousands weeping and wailing seem feckless and ineffectual.
So, based on millenia of Celtic tradition, lore, mythos, etc., Harry will survive, but, he won't get the girl.
Regardless, I'm really excited to see which variant JKR actually writes. Accio, Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks,
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TomProffitt - Feb 7, 2005 8:01 pm (#553 of 1297)
Bullheaded empiricist
Jo consistently ends her books on an up note. Even 4 & 5 which had the deaths of significant characters ended on up notes. This leads me to believe Harry will survive.
Everyone else is fair game. I guess I give Harry the best chance of surviving and Voldemort the least. I put everyone else somewhere in the middle. There's no one I'd say is definitely going to die and no one I would say is definitely going to live.
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Anamari Fernandez - Feb 7, 2005 11:31 pm (#554 of 1297)
I don't think any of the main charachters would die (Ron, Hermione, Dumbledore) and with mr. and mrs. Weasley, I hope not, that would just be mean. I'm thinking maybe Tonks since she is such a klutz, but anyway, thinking about this things makes me really uncomfortable... Hope is someone we don't really care about (a Creevy brother for instance)
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Feb 8, 2005 12:48 pm (#555 of 1297)
No day but Today
I care about the Creevy's Anamari. I don't think that anyone mentioned more than once is an unimportant character, thus they are worthy of caring about.I really don't want to see any of them die, except of course the evil ones.
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MoonRider - Feb 8, 2005 5:19 pm (#556 of 1297)
(The rest of my "eye theory" didn't wash-----but I'm stickin' with this part.)
I'm thinkin', maybe people with gray/silvery eyes: Luna, Mr. Ollivander, Kreacher, Draco Malfoy, and Lucius Malfoy.
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pottermom34 - Feb 8, 2005 11:08 pm (#557 of 1297)
Is it July yet? I can't really say who I think it will be, I think we're all going to be thrown for a loop. I think it'll be someone that no one expected. ( I hope that made sense)
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dizzy lizzy - Feb 8, 2005 11:43 pm (#558 of 1297)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
Ooh yes it made sense. I'm not even game enough to even have a guess. I want it to be a complete and utter surprise to me.
Lizzy
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Fawkes Egg - Feb 13, 2005 10:18 am (#559 of 1297)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
Pine Fresh: Perhaps our favorite car snob should be forced forever more to drive a battered Ford Anglia through the streets of Little Whinging. Naked. Without a functioning invisibility spell. (Actually, that might be more of a punishment for the other residents of Little Whinging . . .)
This nearly made me choke on my chai!
I live in a Surrey town with large square houses, nice neat gardens and prim but nosy neighbours - trust me, anything like what you suggest, Pine Fresh, would give some of the old dears a stroke!
Who will die? Dumbledore must go, I think. Right before a major battle. Everyone relies on him far too much. Apart from that I'm quite happy to see where JKR takes us!
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João Paulo Costa - Feb 19, 2005 6:30 am (#560 of 1297)
(Attention: long post)
Hello all. This post relats my feelings for the death or surviving of characters.
[This has just been out of my head now, and have not think much about it. I also have not read the posts in here, specifically not to be too much influenced]
- Harry Potter: I believe he will survive the series, but whit a lot of personal loss, either of one or more close persons or loss due to a big injury.
- Hermione: I do not believe she will die. However, I do believe that she will be seriously injured in one of the final battles (assuming there is one). Through Hermione is intelligent and an active person, I do not think she can handle much in a battle.
- Ron Wesley: for me, Ron has a serious chance of dying in the next books. If that happens (trough I hope not), I'd say his death would be to protect someone (Harry or Harmione).
- Arthur and Molly Wesley: I do not believe that neither of them shall die. This is more intuitive that based in any actual reasons that could be derived form the books.
- Percey Wesley: I do not think that he will die. But I think that he will see the error of his ways and join the Order of Pheonix.
- Fred and George Wesley: I have a feeling that one of the twins will not survive the whole series, and he will die, but quite by accident.
- Charlie and Bill Wesley: one of them might be killed, and, if that happens, it will be off-screen... why? just a feeling
- Ginny Weasley: I have no idea, through...
- Neville: Neville is also a big candidate for not surviving the series, for me. First, because there is the profecy (what if DD is mistaken and it is Neville that is the one that must kill LV?). Also, his building courage will not be stopped, which means that he will want to be placed in a continuous risky place (or,"in the front line") of the war: that means that he will be exposed to greater risks...
- Remus Lupin: I do not think that he will die. But let me state that I'm being VERY biased, for Lupin is one of my favorite characters.
- Dumbeldore: I do not think unplauseble that DD could not die. I can well see him sacrifing his life for the defeat of Voldemort, but only if: a)There wold be no other choice; or b) he would have already made preparations so that his work in the Order of Pheonix and in Hogwarts would carry on. The death of Dumbledore would be something brutal, in terms of implications in the Wizarding world, and in terms of the plot...
- Severus Snape: Snape shall not die. I cannot see him sacrificing his life for another charater, and I thnk he is too smart and cautious to get himself involved in an open battle. The other strong possibility is that his work for the order (which we do not know what is) we backfire somehow...
- McGonagall, Flitwick, Sprout: the main other teachers and head of houses in Hogwarts shall surelly survive the series.
- Hagrid: Hagrid seems to me a rather almost indestructible character. That leads to the idea that he shall survive the series.
- the Malfoys: these are a family that siply put, shall not disapear. Even (or speacially) if Lord Voldemort is vanquished, they shall always be around to remind that there are always more intolerant, arrogant and mean people in any society.
- The Order of the Phenix: like Sirius, probably severall of its members shall die in the next books. But I do not want to alongate in this topic,or I have no clues...
- The Death Eaters: Like OoP, their conterpart, and like Sirius, probably some will not survive. Notice, however, that in the battle of the departmentof mysteries, all of them were taken prisioner, and none died...
- Lord Voldemort: I specifically let this charater to be the last. I have stated in another trend that it seemed more or less assured that he shall be defeated by the end of the series. We do not know, however, how this could be done. JK Rowling asked an important question: "Why Dumbledore did not tried to kill Voldemert?" Why not indeed? Maybe Voldemort CANNOT be killed (I do not say defeated). Maybe his downfall shall be done in a completely different way that we are expecting...
Well, this was rater a long post. I can only hope that it will not be cut. Of course that any feedback shll be apreciated.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Feb 19, 2005 10:45 pm (#561 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"Why not indeed? Maybe Voldemort CANNOT be killed (I do not say defeated)."
You cannot kill evil, it is a human condition. You can defeat in a time of threat, but it will resurface again and again as long as there is mankind.
Hollywand, I do believe I feel the groove of the waltz now! Now to just find time to vocalize.
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fleur-de-lys - Mar 2, 2005 3:05 pm (#562 of 1297)
Hi everyone! This is my first post, although I have been enjoying reading for a while. I browsed the thread tittles looking for one such as this, for I wanted to start one myself. I’m just a late bloomer-forumly speaking. It seems so strange to be discussion these deaths, as many of them are just kids. Anyway, here are my two knuts, or maybe three,and some reasons why:
I also believe that, should Harry die, JK will need to enter the witness protection program. If she does that to us, I am going to have a huge bonfire and burn all my copies of Harry Potter as well as my DVDs. That said, I do not believe it is impossible for her to kill him off. This story, especially the ending, has been in her mind long before it was ever on paper, long before it was published and long before we all fell in love with Harry Potter and the wizarding world. Therefore, she could never have known how tragic, and dangerous for her, it would be to kill him. But I do not believe he will die—wishful thinking.
Ron and Hermione will either survive or die together. They are too much of an item for one to die and not the other. I do believe that Viktor Krum will die early in the battle and this tragedy will drive home the reality of students dying and also drive Hermione and Ron into each others’ arms for strength and comfort. I do believe that Ron will be gravely injured and linger between life and death for a time.
I don’t see Snape dying to save Harry. There are a few characters I see at the end and I think he’s one of them.
Voldemort has to die, just to redeem our faith in good overcomes evil. If Voldy (I love this nick name) lives and Harry dies, there is no hope for the world. If Voldy lives and Harry lives, then the story is not over and there will be an eighth book—YEAH! So, therefore, Voldy must die.
Lucius and Nacissa will die at the hands of Voldy-or a death-eather, most likely. Possibly in front of Draco. This will dramatically rock Draco’s world and begin the reuniting of the two houses.
I love the idea of Bella being caught by Neville, and possibly his parents (I must read that thread), but being handed over to the dementors, as Neville is much to big a person to stoop to the DeathEater level.
Peter must die, not saving Harry. He doesn’t deserve that honor, but in some low and revolting way.
Percy will sacrifice his life to save Ron or Arthur or both.
I don’t think the Dursleys will need to be killed for Voldy to get to Harry at Privet Dr. Perhaps the blood taken from Harry to bring Voldy back has cancelled that protection.
Lupin will not die. I think this is more wishful thinking (as I really like Lupin) and sentimentality. I don’t think there needs to be one last surviving Maurader, but, for Harry, one last surviving connection to his parents. Call me a sentimental fool, but there you go.
I can’t really make a statement on Dumbledorr. I just don’t see his passing as that significant. Perhaps I’m missing something.
Hagrid will survive, if for no other reason than to see him marry Madame Maxine in his hairy brown suit. Perhaps Grawp will die to save him.
A few others I see snuffing it, possibly, but without any real reason behind my reasoning are one or both of the Creevy brothers, Moody, Olivander (one of the first deaths and the first of the shopkeepers), Kingsley Shacklebolt, many other deatheaters and another student or two. There has to be one student, significant but not extremely integral that dies, like Seamus or Crabbe or Goyle, someone like that.
There are those that I definitely see surviving to the end. Tonks is one. She is just one of those characters that you think is going to kick the bucket and maybe has, but she turns up at the end with her positive attitude and fun-loving approach to life. I see Fudge alive, but completely befuddled that he is still alive. Perhaps Dumbledorr or Hargrid saves him. I had thought that Dobby was a good candidate for snuffage, but I’m beginning to see him at the end as well. Arthur Weasley definitely survives, Molly I’m not so sure about. I also see Fred and George at the end. The Weasley twins we have with us always. They make life too much fun.
To add to my theory of Rona and Hermione, I see in the epilogue Ron becoming Headmaster of Hogwarts (it could happen) and Hermione persuing and career in Wizard-Muggle Relations. And creating the largest Weasley family yet. I also see Harry persuing a career and as Auror, if they are still as necessary. And if not, he will become a record-breaking, hall-of-famer on the championship Quidditch team that he founded.
I just had another inkling of a theory. What if Ron dies, Draco turns good and Draco and Hermione end up together and Draco becomes Minister of Magic? Sorry, but this idea just popped into my head.
At any rate, I think we are in for a few rough times in the next book and, knowing how Sirius’ death affected me, I will definitely be keeping the tissue box close by.
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Weeny Owl - Mar 4, 2005 2:04 pm (#563 of 1297)
Draco and Hermione end up together
JKR has already said that won't happen.
I do like your term, "snuffage." That made me chuckle.
I do see either Molly or Arthur dying, and at least one of the twins, just because it would have such a huge impact on everyone at Hogwarts. I don't see any of the Weasleys dying before the seventh book, though.
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fleur-de-lys - Mar 4, 2005 2:48 pm (#564 of 1297)
hi weeny, thanks for clarifying the draco-hermione thing. i came up with that at the last miniute, but it really scared me. what a thought. but i certainly hope i'm wrong about a lot of other things on my earlier post too. if i come up with any other good terms, i'll let you know. alas, that may have been my one and only allotment this century.
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fleur-de-lys - Mar 8, 2005 10:37 am (#565 of 1297)
hey, weeny, was just wondering...where does it say that draco and hermione won't end up together? i don't remember reading that everywhere, of course, i'm sure i haven't read or heard every single word that jk has said. although i'd like to.
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Amilia Smith - Mar 8, 2005 12:33 pm (#566 of 1297)
Fleur: I'm not Weeny, but I can answer your question. It was at the World Book Day Chat in March 2004.
Chibimono: Do you have any future plans in particular for Draco Malfoy? JK Rowling replies -> I've got plans for all my characters. Actually, this is a really good place to answer a question about Draco and Hermione, which a certain Ms. Radcliffe is desperate to have answered. Will they end up together in book six/seven? NO! The trouble is, of course, that girls fancy Tom Felton, but Draco is NOT Tom Felton! (My daughter likes TF very much too, because he taught her how to use a diablo)
Hope that helps,
Mills.
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João Paulo Costa - Mar 10, 2005 8:56 am (#567 of 1297)
Hello, fleur-de-lys, I've just read your message from 2 March, stating which whitches and wizards shall live or die.
I do not mean to be rude, but as I was reading it, it seems to me that you are trying to get everybody that appears more friendly or that have (to our knowledge) made no harm, to survive the next books, and thus the next war in the wizarding world, as the more nasty characters, and the more secondary characters that we are unfamiliar with (and therefore have little empathy to) could be killed.
I rembember reading somewhere, in an interview with JK Rowling, that she stated that the war had started and so people will die. I do think that more than one of the main characters shall perish, or suffer a deep loss, including characters that we fell empathy with.
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fleur-de-lys - Mar 11, 2005 11:03 am (#568 of 1297)
hello, back, joao. i don't mean to sound catty, if i do, but this is a forum to share one's opinions. i, also, just reread my post and there were a few of the order i marked for death (ooo that sounds creepy). anyway, i've stated on other threads that i am a sentimental fool, so it would only be fair for me to keep around many of the good guys and not too many of the bad guys. also, i think anyone rooting for good versus evil will be inclined to hope that most of the good guys will make it and most of the bad guys will snuff it. i do realize, after reading your post, that jk did call this a war and there are many casualties in way, many that we wish wouldn't happen. so perhaps i am a bit lenient in my list, but that's the sentimental fool coming out.
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Weeny Owl - Mar 18, 2005 12:47 pm (#569 of 1297)
Amilia, thanks for answering fleur's question. It was that chat I was referring to.
As for sentimentality, I tend to be in that corner myself.
There are quite a few characters I just don't want to see die, but that doesn't mean JKR views them the way I do or that she wouldn't kill a few off.
I can't really say I WANT to see anyone dead, but if people can't redeem themselves, then I wouldn't be too brokenhearted to see some of them dealt with that way...Bella, Mulciber, Macnair, Dolohov, the Malfoys, Umbridge, and a few others who are known Death Eaters.
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pottermom34 - Mar 18, 2005 3:45 pm (#570 of 1297)
I just mentioned this on the Percy thread, and I hate to suggest it, but what if Percy is the one to die and on his deathbed is when they finally make amends.
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fleur-de-lys - Mar 18, 2005 6:02 pm (#571 of 1297)
Pottermom34, That would be very sad, but reassuring that they make ammends. However, I still hold out hope that they make ammends and band together long before andy Weasley deaths. I still see Percy risking, and possibly giving, his life to save his father and/or Ron. But we shall see. July can't come soon enough for me!
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Steve Newton - Mar 18, 2005 8:06 pm (#572 of 1297)
Librarian
Weeny, it would make Molly a dangerous person to be around for the last book. Meaning dangerous to her enemies and her friends. If the last time she spoke with Percy they had a fight it would eat at her.
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Hexenhammer - Apr 11, 2005 12:46 am (#573 of 1297)
Edited by Apr 11, 2005 12:47 am
Hagrid's dead. In the first book someone had said Hagird would rather die than betray Dumbledore.
Temper, Temper
-Hexenhammer
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Classicsquid592 - Apr 17, 2005 4:42 pm (#574 of 1297)
A while ago I made a few predictions in this thread and in the general predictions thread (http://wc6.worldcrossing.com/webx?224@@11f2d8a5@.1dde27ad/766) that relied on the assumption that Dumbledore would die. Dumbledore is the only character on the cover of book six to appear other than Harry, another small piece possibly pointing towards the death of Dumbledore.
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frogface - Apr 21, 2005 1:36 am (#575 of 1297)
Does anyone think Moody is going to get zapped? For some reason I do, he went down quite early in the MoM battle which could very well be a foreshadowing.
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Ruthie - Apr 24, 2005 5:23 am (#576 of 1297)
I think Dumbledore will die because (as I've said in another thread) I believe Voldemort will try to take control of/destroy Hogwarts and possibly that's where Harry and Voldemort have their 'final confrontation' perhaps a little too presumptuous I know
anyway, if Voldemort wanted to take Hogwarts I strongly believe he won't be able to do it with DD in his way....But at the same time I think DD's death seems too predictable for JKR. July seems so far away!!!!!!!!1 - - - - - - - - - -
Finn BV - Apr 25, 2005 6:53 pm (#577 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
About Percy dying –
It has been said a lot that he might die just trying to make ends meet. But we already know how Molly feels about this. In GoF she apologizes to Fred and George for saying they didn't get enough OWLs after the QWC incident. If this were to happen again, JKR would have to have another "Woes of Mrs. Weasley" Chapter; this time, though, it would include - if not solely be - Percy.
Also, who says that a Weasley has to die? I know not anybody in particular has, still, it's just like JKR to show that a family of nine can stay a family of nine.
PS Harry will not die. You can make up any reasons why you think he will die, but there is not a single person in the world who can just kill off the world's most famous:
wizard
children's character
title character of the six, likely to be seven, No. 1 Bestseller Lists Hits
title character of the soon-to-be highest budget film in history.
Sorry, JKR. No offense. Not even the bravest Gryffindor has that courage.
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Miriam Huber - Apr 26, 2005 2:35 am (#578 of 1297)
Well, fbv, you would be absolutely right about Harry, if it were not for JKRs "secret diary". I think the question whether or not Harry dies at the end is of such importance that she decided rather early in the process of writing the series, if not right at the beginning. And at that time, Harry was -- in the muggle world -- not at all famous...
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Shannon aka Brammwell - Apr 26, 2005 8:44 am (#579 of 1297)
Financial Services Representative
I agree with the point that Harry will not die, in an interview JKR said that she'd had no plans to write an eighth book that who knows, she might decide to write one ten years from now, which she wouldn't be able to if she were to get rid of her central character.
As for who will die, I'm guessing that it may be Mrs. Weasley; she's the thread that holds that family together, and she has also become a second mother to Harry, which we've seen in the past can be detrimental. It would also create a bond between Harry and Ron having both lost very important people in their lives to Voldemort. Further, it would allow Ron to see the cost of Harry's popularity that he has been envious of all these years. Finally, it would bring Percy back into the family fold.
I'm guessing as the war moves into full force that we will loose more of the Order; Moody and Shakefield
I don't believe Lupin will die but I do believe he will finally have his vengeance on Peter and Peter will fall at his hands/teeth(Also because Peter deserves to be mauled to death by a werewolf)!
Of the three (Ron, Hermione, and Harry) I believe we will loose our beloved Hermione, even though she is the most clever we've found in OofP in the MoM that she is not infallable.
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Finn BV - Apr 26, 2005 10:39 am (#580 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Miriam - I understand your point, that JKR wrote the last chapter almost when she started the whole series; but I do believe that she has also said that she has revised it numerous times. It's probably unlikely that she would change if the main character would die or not, but… hey, you never know. *wink* ;-)
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Nicole Bebout - Apr 26, 2005 11:24 am (#581 of 1297)
I am extrememly, and I mean extrmemly afraid that Severus Snape might be the one to be killed off. For some reason, I am totally in love with Snape, and would be heartbroken if he did die, but it seems that sooner or later his cover as a spy will be blown...and when that happens Voldie will be out to get him.
I have also had fears about Lupin being in danger, he is a werewolf, and Voldermort *did* give Peter a silverhand....it just seems fitting that Peter would finally kill the rest of the Marauders (I hold him accountable for Sirius' death). But then I also think that Voldermort will kill him as well.
Some people have said that Harry might die at the end of the series, but I don't think that will happen.
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Steve Newton - Apr 26, 2005 11:42 am (#582 of 1297)
Librarian
I started this thread on June 20, 2004. I think that about June 20 this year I will start to do a summation of peoples guesses. That gives me about a month to beat the release of HBP. I hope that it is enough time.
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Finn BV - Apr 26, 2005 12:58 pm (#583 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Good luck reading through all 582 posts, Steve! Do you think you will list the people by number of posters who thought they would die, or by order of suggested death date (Book 6 People/Book 7 People)? I think it's a very interesting idea to do a summation of a thread. I'm relatively new to the forum, so I'm not acquainted with it, but you sound like the one to do it, being a librarian. *wink* ;-)
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Steve Newton - Apr 26, 2005 1:17 pm (#584 of 1297)
Librarian
Number of posters will be my initial tally. Time will decide what else.
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frogface - Apr 26, 2005 1:29 pm (#585 of 1297)
"Miriam - I understand your point, that JKR wrote the last chapter almost when she started the whole series; but I do believe that she has also said that she has revised it numerous times. It's probably unlikely that she would change if the main character would die or not, but… hey, you never know. *wink* ;-)"
I think you should remember something JKR said about killing off Sirius. Apparently after writing his death in OoP, she cried, and she was devestated. Her husband said something to her like "Why don't you just change it so he lives" and JKR replied with something like "It doesn't work like that". And I agree, literiture doesn't work like that, at least not most of the time. Most writers (and I include JKR in this) have a plan and they stick to it, if they are writing a series such as this one then they lay clues and do certain things within the storyline because that is what is required to reach their end of the series. Sirius had to die, and if Harry has to die, then he will, and I think that....no I HOPE that if JKR has planned for Harry to die, she will stick to that, because that is the way it works. I don't believe she will change the ending of her series just because some of us won't like it. Also, to adress the point of not being able to continue the series with Harry dead, I don't agree. Harry is the main character yes, but he isn't the only character, and look at the Middle Earth Stories, by JRR Tolkien, or the STAR WARS novels. They all have central characters, some of which die, but that doesn't mean the end of the stories, they simply adopt a new main character. If JKR comes up with a new story that she wants to set up in the same world, then it would be entirely possible to do so whether Harry is dead or not.
After saying all of that however, I'm not saying its certain he will die, I'm just saying you shouldn't say that he deffinatly won't, because you don't know...you shouldn't really say that about any prediction, particularly when analysing a series like this, which has been very difficult to predict so far.
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Finn BV - Apr 26, 2005 8:02 pm (#586 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Point well taken, Frogface. Thanks for reminding me about the death of Sirius. I had forgotten that - "it doesn't work like that." You're right - it has been difficult to predict. If anything, that's true!
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 26, 2005 8:40 pm (#587 of 1297)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
My feelings: Ms. Weasley-end of book 6 Percy-book 6 Ron-final battle of book 7 Dumbledore-middle of book 7
Mikie
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Ponine - Apr 28, 2005 7:08 pm (#588 of 1297)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
I don't know.. Harry has lost so many - she simply CAN'T kill off any more of his loved ones and/or semi-parental figures, can she???? I mean, ok, I admit I am very worried about Dumbledore. But I would like to think that Molly, Remus, Ron and Hermione are safe simply by proximity to Harry. Neville on the other hand, I could see dying a tragic, yet heroic death. I hate to say it, but I am also really worried about Severus... and somehow Fred and George and Ginny...
Maybe we should appreciate this point in time when everyone is alive and reasonably well. I may wish the HBP never came out once I read it, and if Ron goes, I go. (not that I adore the boy - - - - - - - - - -
Joanne R. Reid - Apr 29, 2005 10:21 am (#589 of 1297)
Hi, Frogface,
I have one comment regarding a novelist and their characters.
Regardless of your intentions for your characters, the moment you create them, your characters in your novel take on a life of their own. Events that you carefully contrive, seem to conspire against you. Slowly, but inevitably people and events stray from the course that you intended them to travel. Instead, they, like your children, become independent of you.
After a while, the novelist becomes the first reader of a book. Words flow. People act and interact. Events happen. The future becomes history before your eyes. You no longer control events. You merely chronicle them for others to read at a later time.
And, when your characters die, in spite of your best efforts to save them from their fate, you weep. You were helpless to change their destiny, even though you could see it coming. You grieve long before others can know of your loss.
And, much later, you shrug as your readers ask you why that character had to die. You shrug because you don't know why. It happened before your eyes in real time, and you weren't able to do anything about it. And your readers will never understand that you had nothing to do with it. You only reported it as it happened.
Thanks,
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frogface - Apr 29, 2005 1:15 pm (#590 of 1297)
But in JKR's mind, all the events in the series have already happened, no? They maybe in the future tense to us, because we don't know the outcome, but she has already effectively written the story (just in her mind instead of on paper). Yes I agree that even a writer cannot completely control the way the character's grow, that becomes a subconcious process if the character is well enough written. But that is not to say that the author loses control completely. Almost every story has a point, a moral or a lesson to be displayed, and the ending of the story is nearly always integral to these things. I believe the Harry Potter series has many messages in it, messages about Predjudice, love, hate, war (those last three were SO Shakespeare :p ), bravery, choices and so on. For JKR to change her mind about the end of the series after already begining to show it to other people could completely send these messages out of the window. I maintain that JKR has a plan, and that she will stick to it. It doesn't seem like her to change something as significant as Harry's fate at the end of the books because other people want her to. Whatever happens to Harry at the end of the series will be the most significant event in the entire series I imagine - after all this is Harry's story. If he dies then I can't imagine a more important event. So I do not believe that JKR will change the ending that drastically, I believe that if she does plan to kill Harry off, then she will stick to that plan. Like I said before I would be disapointed if she did change the ending just because other people want her to. Literiture maybe a form of entertainment, but it is so much more than that, and its sole purpose is not necessarily to please the readers and give them what they want to hear. Although I remain unchanged in my opinion I do admire what you said though, it was very insightful and did force me to think about my arguements and reminded me to try and keep an open mind - I think you have to when considering something as important as "Will Harry die or not?".
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Joanne R. Reid - May 2, 2005 2:20 pm (#591 of 1297)
Hi, Frogface,
Again, I agree with you ... in general. Of course, my comment was in regard to yours concerning the death of Sirius Black. He could have been one of those characters that JKR intended to do one thing, who ended up doing another. That is often the fate of secondary characters, no matter how attached to them we become.
At the same time, the fate of Harry, Ron and Hermione was established at an early time. JKR had determined whether this would be Comedy or Tragedy. However, by writing a children's book, she has virtualy assured us that this will not be a tragedy.
Therefore, Harry must become the great hero. He must know his doom. He must face it knowing that it will probably mean his death, and that he can avoid it if he wishes. However, to become the hero he must be, he will accept his fate and overcome all adversity to defeat the enemy and win the great reward.
The only real questions are how will he win, and who will die? And, for my part, I'd guess that our three heroes will survive and prosper.
Hey, it's my story and I'm sticking to it! ;-)
Thanks,
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Hermionefan(#1) - May 29, 2005 6:22 pm (#592 of 1297)
missing my picture!!!!! *cry cry cry*
Oh, I don't think this is definitely not a tragedy. Didn't JKR say she never intended it to be a children's book, so she put in lots of twists and things. I don't think that just because they sell her book in the children's section she'll change her mind about the genre.
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Choices - May 29, 2005 6:28 pm (#593 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Joanne - I sure hope you are right!! I want it to be a clever ending that will knock my socks off, but I want our trio to come through it OK and live happily ever after. :-)
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Good Evans - May 30, 2005 5:38 am (#594 of 1297)
Practically perfect in every way
can I pull on a much used parralell? the Narnia chronicles end with death - but constant life in Narnia. I cried when I first read it as a child but also reasoned that it was the only ending that could have happened, what life could Lucy really have had in a non Narnia world? Harry may or may not die, but just being a "childrens book" does not preclude this from happening.
We know Sirius is gone, but what is beyond the Veil? - I know this is another thread, bare with me - maybe circumstances will dictate the only option for Harry will be to step in to the veil and join Sirius. It may seem the only thing that made sense, when we finally get there, and again he wont necessarily be dead - just gone to where ever the veil leads, and be reunited with Sirius.
I dont want him to die - like choices I want the trio to live happily ever after, but so much angst and drama - is that the way that we are being lead? Could Harry live a "normal" (well normal for a wizard) life?
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Joanne R. Reid - May 30, 2005 2:53 pm (#595 of 1297)
HI, Good Evans II,
I don't see why not. I am sure that amongst your acquaintances, you have known men who have fought in battle. As a brat, I knew many who had lived through hell. As an adult, I have worked closely with military personel who have fought, killed, been wounded and even maimed.
Although some have had a difficult time returning to a humdrum civilian life, by far the majority have seized it joyfully. Most of them have returned to their loved ones, raised families, persued their dreams and tried to live their lives as well as is possible. Some of them are so meek and mild that you'd never know they had once been fearsome warriors. And, that's the way they want it to be.
So, why wouldn't Harry, who has never known a day without fear, not want to live in peace, to raise his family and to live his life as well as possible?
Thanks,
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Mrs Brisbee - May 31, 2005 7:49 am (#596 of 1297)
Well said, Joanne R. Reid.
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Steve Newton - Jun 17, 2005 8:39 am (#597 of 1297)
Librarian
I have started making my counts of predicted deaths. It is going to take a while. Many of the posts have been comments, not predictions. This is my only chance to get through. I am not counting those deaths that people think may occur. Too wishy washy for me. Only definite statements.
When I get my whole list done I will have to sort out the double picks of people who have voted more than once. I'm using a spread sheet so I should be able to do this. I am not far along yet and have already had to make some quick on the fly decisions. This means that my count could be off, but, its what I can do.
PS, I did a spell check and it didn't like the word 'wishy.' One of its suggestions was 'washy.' Seems strange somehow.
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essie125 - Jun 24, 2005 1:31 am (#598 of 1297)
Jo, of course I think about Alan when I think about Snape, Who wouldn't think about Alan all day every day eh.
Edited Jun 24, 2005 2:05 am
My predictions:
Book 6: I think LV's posse will still lay low, making the wizarding world believe that the ministry was wrong. Mean while LV will be gathering followers. In the mean while the OoP is doing the same thing. But it will not come to a big battle yet. The first muggle kilings will however occur. I think muggle family members of wizards are in danger. Like Dean Thomas his family and Seamus'. Making Harry angrier with LV. In the end there will be an unavoidable climax but the deathtoll will not be all that high. Then Harry goes back to 4PD
Book 7:
In the beginning of this book Harry will be at 4PD. Deatheaters will come to this house and will kill Vernon and Dudley while Harry will try desperately to safe them. Petunia will show emotional magic late in life and survive. Harry will have contacted the order, because after the MoM tragedy Dumbleodre will have made sure that Harry can safely contact the order when he wants to. Harry will be saved by the order and he and Petunia will be taken to safety. Harry will return to Hogwarts for his final year. While he is there there will be more and more news about battles between ordermembers and deatheaters. More and more people will die. people very close to Harry like Lupin, and/or a Weasley/Granger family member will die. This will set the trio of. At the end of the school year there will be a massive battle between LV and all his creatures, and supporters and the slytherin students on the one hand and Dumbledore, other order members and their supporters and creatures. Harry, Ron, Hermione and friends will be there too. A lot of people on both sides will die like Dumbledore and members of the Malfoy family Ron and Hermione will either get badly wounded or they will survive. LV and wormtail will get away. Harry will want revenge and will try and find LV and Wormtail. Wormtail is in debt with Harry so he will try to protect Harry leading to his death. And then the big battle between LV and Harry will take place. Harry will get help from people wjo find out where he went. but in the end he will have to do it on his own. LV will die, and Harry will die to, because he is badly wounded. Ron and Hermione will either both die or both live, because they can't live without eachother.
This is how I think the last two books will go.
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Veritaserum - Jun 24, 2005 7:50 am (#599 of 1297)
Go Jays!
Wow, I just realized how sad these last two books are going to be!
One thing I noticed when reading OOP last night: In chapter two, uncle Vernon says something like "Do your lot have the death penalty?" in a hopeful voice. That struck me as rather foreboding and sinister.
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frogface - Jun 24, 2005 10:26 am (#600 of 1297)
What I found even more sinister is the Veil in MoM. Its being discussed on the Sirius Black thread I think. Maybe the veil was created as a tool of execution rather than using Avera Kedavra? But if you link the veil to Vernon's question, it could almost be seen as a bit of a hint don't you think?
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 601 to 650)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 10:53 am
applepie - Jun 24, 2005 10:32 am (#601 of 1297)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Wow, Frogface, interesting catch. I would love to learn more about the veil. But, I wonder if the only one is in the MoM?
Sorry to be off subject.
I have been trying to figure out who is most likely to die, and I think that Hagrid would be most willing to sacrifice himself for Dumbledore. I just hope they aren't both killed.
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Cuivienen - Jun 24, 2005 4:15 pm (#602 of 1297)
I've just finished rereading Books 1-5, and I'm ready to repredict some deaths.
Vernon Dursley - Book 7
Originally, I thought that Vernon would die at the beginning of HBP. However, with JKR clarifying that Harry will be leaving Privet Drive for a happy reason, he'll probably die in Book 7 instead. Dudley and Petunia are not quite as likely to die.
Rubeus Hagrid - Book 7
I have difficulty predicting any deaths for HBP because I just can't see Book 7 without a lot of the characters that I think will die before the end. In any case, if Hagrid makes it to Book 7, I don't think he'll live more than 350 pages in.
Ron Weasley - Book 7
The real wrencher. Ron will die. There are too many subtle clues that have been laid out in other threads that indicate that Ron won't live to graduate. I don't like it any more than you, but I think he'll die in the last battle, around the same time as...
Albus Dumbledore - Book 7
I'm sorry to say it, but Dumbledore's death is a no-brainer. He's the elderly mentor whose time has passed. He, like Ron, will die in the climactic final battle.
Percy Weasley - HBP
I'm not sure I can explain why I think Percy will die. I doubt that he will make up with the rest of the family, and the Ministry is about to undergo major changes. Percy will probably lose his job and die pointlessly later on or be killed while on the job as the Ministry fights Voldemort.
Voldemort - Book 7
Duh.
Neville Longbottom - HBP
I think that Neville, while not the HBP, will be integral to the plot of HBP. Unfortunately for him, being integral to the plot likely means that he will die towards the end.
And that's all right now.
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pottermom34 - Jun 24, 2005 8:22 pm (#603 of 1297)
Maybe, Voldemort will confirm that Snape is the "coward that left him" or the "one that left forever" (GoF) and he will die (sorry Gina, nothing personal). I'm not saying I want him to, but it's a possibilty.
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Veritaserum - Jun 24, 2005 9:38 pm (#604 of 1297)
Go Jays!
Oh wow, killing Snape off just when he was getting interesting? That would be a diabolical thing to do, yet somehow, I wouldn't put it past JKR. Didn't she tell people not to like Snape too much? At any rate, I am really interested to see what does become of him.
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HungarianHorntail11 - Jun 25, 2005 5:15 am (#605 of 1297)
The heart sees deeper than the eye.
pottermom34, there was a discussion on some thread (Snape?) regarding just that. The end result was thinking that Karkaroff was the "coward" who "will be punished" by killing off the "one who left forever" ("he will be killed"), meaning Snape.
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essie125 - Jun 27, 2005 6:54 am (#606 of 1297)
Jo, of course I think about Alan when I think about Snape, Who wouldn't think about Alan all day every day eh.
How can Snape be a spy for DD if LV will kill him if he sees him? Now that the other deatheaters know this won't they try to get into LV's good books by handing Snape over to LV. On the other hadn I don't think Snape is the type for letting himself be handed over to LV. He won't be able to find out much about what the others are doing if they won't tell him anything. LV will find out in an instince whether they are betrating him. He;ll just read their minds.
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Veritaserum - Jun 27, 2005 11:18 am (#607 of 1297)
Go Jays!
I wonder if how much the DE's know about each other and Voldy. Considering the way they were all cloaked and many were unnamed, it's possible that, in case they might have to take Veritaserum, they're kept in the dark about things. In which case, Snape could come up to a DE who doesn't know he's really a good guy and use him to get information, under the pretenses of it being Voldemort's orders.
Sorry if this is too off-topic. Feel free to move it if needs be.
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KTO - Jun 27, 2005 12:43 pm (#608 of 1297)
Deaths
While I believe there will be some, I am refusing to think that they will include, Ron or any of the other main characters under age. dumbledore, he has led a full life and his death while sorrowful will not be a tragedy. JK loves these characters even more then us and while an author must follow the story and let the characters go where they will, the author can direct.
No way is JK going to kill her best friend (Ron), nor Hermione (herself), nor Harry ( it's Harry, he has had enough, now he needs to live a long life full of wisdom and peace) nor Neville ( the part of all of us that doubts but ultimatley triumphs). It is NOT going to happen.
Ron might lose a parent or an older, not that important sibling to bring death home, but parents should never have to see thier child die, Real war is horrible enough, we need our books to give us hope.
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frogface - Jun 27, 2005 2:38 pm (#609 of 1297)
I would like to agree with KTO, but shes already killed off Cedric and he was only a sixth year wasn't he? Also you can't say "this deffinatly will not happen" because you don't know, you can believe all you want, but that doesn't mean you know.
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HungarianHorntail11 - Jun 27, 2005 5:03 pm (#610 of 1297)
The heart sees deeper than the eye.
I have to agree, frogface. As much as I like those ideas KTO, it seems more like wishful thinking than anything fact-based.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 28, 2005 8:51 am (#611 of 1297)
Hi,
With less than three weeks left in this seemingly interminable wait for the arrival of HBP, I will make my guesses as to who will die.
Percy Weasley. Why? First and foremost, he is a git! Although this is not sufficient, I feel that it is necessary. If he were to die, none of us would miss him. Of course, the entire Weasley family would be devastated and Molly would be inconsolable. Harry would do his best to help his dearest friend, Ron. But, Percy's death will bring Ron and Hermione closer. Finally, the death of a "pure-blood" will galvanize the WW into action.
As for other deaths, although there may be some, I'm guessing (hoping?) that none of the main characters will die. I am concerned about DD, though. The rumors of his demise are too pervasive to be ignored.
OK? That's my two knuts worth.
Accio! Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks,
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KTO - Jun 28, 2005 10:56 am (#612 of 1297)
I will either be proven right at the end of book seven or go into a ten day depression!
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Tomoé - Jun 28, 2005 12:55 pm (#613 of 1297)
Back in business
Here's a nice quote about who she's going to kill:
E: You know, characters take on their own lives. They have their own stories. Writers often say, 'I loved that character and the most tragic part of my year last year was having to kill them off.'
JK: Well that's coming.
E: Do you know already who is going to die in the next books?
JK: I know all of them who are going to die, yeah.
E: And some characters we might love and you might love?
JK: I'm definitely killing people I love, yeah. (Waves to fans outside) It's horrible, isn't it? (Laughs) It is actually. I cried during the writing of that one [Book Four] for the first time ever. I cried doing the actual writing of it. It really upset me.
E: It opens with a murder and then there's one at the end, which I won't say who it is. And you cried then?
JK: Yeah.
E: But in the future there's even more…
JK: (Laughs deeply) There's worse coming.
E: Is there? There's even worse coming, isn't there?
JK: I don't know why I'm laughing. It's mild hysteria. (Looks at camera) I've got all these children peering in at me [from outside the train]. If they knew I was talking about slaughtering their favourite characters. (Waves vigorously to fans) Hallo!
E: People love Ron, for example. Kids think you're going to knock off Ron because he's the best friend.
JK: Kids do, exactly, because they're sharp and they've seen so many films where the hero's best friend gets it. So they think I'm going to make it personal by killing Ron. But maybe that's a double bluff… (Laughs)
E: Now that you know they expect it, do you give it to them?
JK: No, I decided… It's not that I sat down with a list and decided to write, 'You're going, you're going, you're going.' There are reasons for the deaths in each case, in terms of the story. So that's why I'm doing it. (CBCNewsWorld: Hot Type, July 13, 2000)
"I'm definitely killing people I love, yeah [...] It is actually" I think it's no character is safe.
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Ruthie - Jun 28, 2005 2:54 pm (#614 of 1297)
Thanks Tomoe I was wondering if JKR had said anything like that : ) Well I think that pretty much says that no one really has any idea about who will die because none of us know how the story goes. For all we know it could be someone who is introduced in HBP that dies (like Cedric in GOF. He was basically a new character)
But that doesn't mean we can't try! I think Percy will be going for the same reasons as Joanne R. Reid
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Tomoé - Jun 28, 2005 3:18 pm (#615 of 1297)
Back in business
I don't believe she'll go back to the GoF mood and kill someone we don't know much, I believe it will be a death even worst than Sirius's for book 6, someone we know much better, and one of the trio for book 7.
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Hollywand - Jun 28, 2005 5:06 pm (#616 of 1297)
Gryffindor
In light of the quote Tomoe provided above, maybe we should identify people who have a "reason" for dying that would advance the story. Here are some of my speculations, and if anyone else has some "plot advancing deaths" it would be interesting to speculate:
James and Lily: we know we will get Harry's history, so these two beloved characters will be described, and their demise---it is sure to be traumatic for all of us, especially Harry.
Karkaroff: "too cowardly to return" Voldemort is sure to be after him; Durmstrang may be a great recruitment site for Death Nibblers, and the faculty very supportive of Voldemort's cause. Karkaroff, as a coward, may do something very much like Wormtail, a double betrayal to try to save his own yellow skin.
Sibyll Trelawney: We already have back up faculty for her. She has been seeing very little but death, death, death. Perhaps she is predicting her own death. One more prophecy, and she heads for that great Tea Room in the mysterious beyond.
Wormtail: He's dying an inch at a time, here. First a finger, then a hand, what else can he cut off and still survive? His death in Book Six would ad interesting intrigue to the resolution of the story in Book Seven, as it would be a bit premature.
The Dursleys: Harry leaves Privet for a pleasant reason, returns "home" to a destroyed 4 Privet. The "destruction of private drives" advances Harry's wizard development. Harry explores feelings of grief for the deaths of people that weren't very kind to him. Voldemort makes yet another tactical error that costs lives.
One of the Weasleys: I base this on a folk superstition in the British Isles regarding weasels. If one weasel is attacked, the whole pack of weasels will retaliate. There are "Appease the Weasel" historical festivals. All of the Weasley children either have some association with dragons or have been quietly receiving dragon hide garments, save for Ginny and Percy. The death of Ginny seems to have the most potential, as she was previously taken over by Tom Riddle's diary. Maybe "Draco's detour" refers to "death by dragon" for someone in the story.
These deaths seem to have potential for advancing the plot story.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 28, 2005 9:39 pm (#617 of 1297)
I think our beloved Dumbledore will die at the end of book 6.The only consolation is that his portrait will most probably hang in the Headmasters room and Harry will still be able to communicate and get counsel from him.
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Neville Longbottom - Jun 29, 2005 12:15 am (#618 of 1297)
I agree. If there is one death, who advances the plot, it is Dumbledore's, IMO. Harry has to suceed without him, and so does everyone else. Dumbledore is the one, who keeps everything together, and seeing him go, would make for a compelling plot in book 7, IMO. Besides, Old Voldie needs a reason to attack Hogwarts.
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HungarianHorntail11 - Jun 29, 2005 5:18 am (#619 of 1297)
The heart sees deeper than the eye.
Well, if the Dursleys do indeed get attacked, Harry will need a new residence and this time, DD wouldn't make the mistake of allowing anyone else to be secret keeper but himself. It follows suit then, that Big V would have to go after DD himself, as I don't think any of the DEs would even chance a go at him.
Wormtail: He's dying an inch at a time, here. First a finger, then a hand, what else can he cut off and still survive?
LOL, that is so funny, Hollywand and true. I have a feeling we will not have any Marauders left by the time JKR gets through with them.
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Mrs Brisbee - Jun 29, 2005 6:24 am (#620 of 1297)
I think Dumbledore's death would advance the plot too. The only reason I'm against it is that it would be so clichéd. Perhaps if he died quietly in his sleep of old age --since people do actually die of natural causes even in times of war, and maybe it would be good to be reminded again that death often comes to those we love by means which aren't violent.
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Snuffles - Jun 29, 2005 6:35 am (#621 of 1297)
Olivia
Ooh HH11! I for one hope there is 1 Marauder left, our dear Werewolf himself, I really don't want him to die!
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pottermom34 - Jun 29, 2005 6:50 am (#622 of 1297)
I have a feeling we will not have any Marauders left by the time JKR gets through with them
actually that doesn't sound too far fetched. There are 2 marauders left and on other threads there has been discussion about Peter owing Harry because he spared him so to speak. I wouldn't be surprised if (I hate to say it) Lupin gets killed defending Harry or as a werewolf somehow, and Harry ends up having to go to Peter for help or answers.
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Hollywand - Jun 29, 2005 7:13 am (#623 of 1297)
Gryffindor
I agree with those that have suggested that Dumbledore's death at the end of Book Six would smack of cliche. I would prefer that Dumbledore choose his exit rather than have his life taken forcibly from him. I also feel that taking Dumbledore's voice would cripple the narrative flow rather than advance the plot. Who is left as the insightful sage who draws the order from the chaos? Severus? Hagrid? McGonnagall? Hermione? Harry? I can't imagine any of them taking over his narrative.
Dumbledore has allowed Harry to develop without him in almost every single book. In every encounter, Harry faces Voldemort alone, including the last book, where Dumbledore was powerless to help extract Voldemort from Harry's body. With this non-intervention pattern, I'm don't think having Dumbledore compeletely absent would be significantly "forward". Dumbledore had very little mentor contact with Harry in Order of the Phoenix until the close of the book.
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Saralinda Again - Jun 29, 2005 9:06 am (#624 of 1297)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
Hollywand: Wormtail: He's dying an inch at a time, here. First a finger, then a hand, what else can he cut off and still survive?
If he cuts off any more, he'll be completely 'armless, right?
:: ducking and running :::
Sara/Kayte, trying to look ashamed and failing
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Hollywand - Jun 29, 2005 9:42 am (#625 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Well, Saralinda, Wormtail has, in effect, "Dismembered himself" from the Order, wouldn't you say? ;-)
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Veritaserum - Jun 29, 2005 9:55 am (#626 of 1297)
Go Jays!
I don't think Lupin will die, because I don't want the entire generation to die out (ie the Marauders). I think one needs to survive to tell the tale. Lupin's lot in life is to endure while everyone else gets to simply die. Plus, when Dumbledore dies, Lupin can take over that mentor/father figure in Harry's life.
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HungarianHorntail11 - Jun 29, 2005 2:14 pm (#627 of 1297)
The heart sees deeper than the eye.
I would hate to see Lupin die, also. It's just that ominous silver hand that Pettigrew is now sporting and I'm sure he'll remember they wanted to kill him back in the shrieking shack.
Hollywand, I sure hope you're right. Your reasoning makes sense. Now, if we could just convince Rowling . . .
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Kwikspell - Jun 29, 2005 5:54 pm (#628 of 1297)
Marketers? Bah!
I agree that Dumbledore's death would smack of cliché, but it could also make for an amazing story line. The state of the wizarding world would be in a state of extreme panic, to say the very least--all sorts of possibilities there. If anyone could pull it off, Rowling could.
I also think one of the Weasleys will die: my money is on Percy, Arthur or Molly. Percy because of the lack of dragon hide protection and the parents because...well, it would be like Harry losing a parent...again. (Poor Harry!)
I'm guessing that Professor Sprout is going to be killed in the 7th book. Pure speculation on my behalf based on my belief that Neville will be the student that stays on to teach at Hogwarts.
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Finn BV - Jun 29, 2005 6:11 pm (#629 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I don't know that Sprout's quite that important enough to be killed, but it certainly would be emotional enough for Neville to step up his game. I'm actually not seeing any current teachers at Hogwarts dying (with the possible exception of Dumbledore).
Ok, I'm officially laying down my predictions for Steve Newton to "Excel"-ize:
A vote for Dumbledore, but not until Book 7. That McSweeney article yesterday actually made me think: Given his prominent placement on the cover, it is unlikely that the first line of the book will be "Harry was surprised and saddened by Dumbledore's sudden death, and he vowed to never think of the old wizard again." I know it's funny, but still: I just don't think DD's appearance on the cover earns him eternal sleep here. It is most appropriate in Book 7 when the Wizarding World will be waging full battle.
Percy Weasley, possibly at the end of HBP, although also possible during the summer in between HBP and HP7.
Molly Weasley, some time after Percy.
A member of the Order, like Figgy, Dung, or someone like that. Not really sure when; for argument's sake I'll say #7.
Lastly, either Pettigrew or Lupin. This is a tough choice but I think I'm going to have to go with (and trust me, I do not want to say it) Lupin. Lupin will die in HBP, which will thoroughly sadden Harry. Pettigrew, however, will follow, because he cannot be the only Marauder to survive. He'll get the axe in HP7.
***breathes a sigh of relief at getting that off his chest***
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 29, 2005 6:57 pm (#630 of 1297)
fbv807 I agree some of the Order members will die. Look at how many died in the last war. I hope Dumbledore makes it all the way through.
I think Snape will die. He will prove himself in the end loyal to Dumbledore. LPO
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Mrs Brisbee - Jun 29, 2005 7:33 pm (#631 of 1297)
I agree that Dumbledore's death would smack of cliché, but it could also make for an amazing story line. The state of the wizarding world would be in a state of extreme panic, to say the very least--all sorts of possibilities there. If anyone could pull it off, Rowling could. --Kwikspell
I agree that Rowling can tell a story well, even when she is going over well trodden ground. She has set up Dumbledore as the only wizard Voldemort has ever feared, so she will have to do something with him eventually to move the story along. I guess there is a good reason it is a cliché, if it is so often a necessary plot point.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 29, 2005 8:12 pm (#632 of 1297)
I Am Almighty!
There is an old quote from JKR that says that we will find out at some point that Hogwarts has had an equal number of Headmasters and Headmistresses. I think the most obvious way for us to find this out is if Dumbledore is killed and needs to be replaced. At the moment, I think he'll probably be killed towards the end of HBP, possibly in the scene depicted on the UK Children's cover.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 29, 2005 11:25 pm (#633 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Ok Vlad, don't tease. Where's the quote?
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Cuivienen - Jun 30, 2005 7:12 am (#634 of 1297)
Would Umbridge count in that list of Headmasters and Headmistresses? If so, the next one must be a Headmaster, if not, a Headmistress (McGonagall, probably).
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Snuffles - Jun 30, 2005 7:19 am (#635 of 1297)
Olivia
I don't think Umbridge will count as no one else at Hogwarts really regarded her as Headmistress. Even the head's office sealed itself against her.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 30, 2005 1:56 pm (#636 of 1297)
I Am Almighty!
And in fact, if you look at the Hogwarts' staff - I had this discussion with someone the other day - it is exactly 50/50. Although it is true that you do have a headmaster as opposed to a headmistress, but that has not always been the case. As you will find out, there have been equal numbers of headmistresses.
That's the full quote, TBE. I take it as a death clue because, as I said earlier, we will probably learn this when Dumbledore is being replaced.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 30, 2005 5:27 pm (#637 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Thank you.
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Ag Hart - Jul 1, 2005 9:41 am (#638 of 1297)
Does anyone think that another Dumbledore might die? Obviously, JKR introduced Aberforth for a reason. Perhaps she intends to use him as a Sydney Carton, except it would be the readers she intends to fool. He probably looks something like Dumbledore. (I thought that was the main reason Harry thought he looked familiar, rather than the fact that Harry had recently seen his picture in a crowded photograph.) It wouldn't take much transfiguring, maybe just a good clean up. Everyone gets nervous when JKR mentions how old Albus looks from time to time. Perhaps that is just part of the set up. Aberforth could intentionally set himself up as a decoy or his death could simply be a case of mistaken identity. This would allow for the possibility of Albus Dumbledore's return in Book 7.
I would much rather see Aberforth die than Albus, so this is probably wishful thinking on my part, but it does seem to fit in with the type of misdirection JKR likes to use. She does love her red herrings. If Albus does die in Book 6, I think he will need to return in some form in the final book. Does anyone know if the Time-Turner can be used to propel people into the future? (Perhaps another device might be needed?) That would be a way other than those previously mentioned in the forum that would allow Dumbledore to reappear and counsel Harry if need be.
I have been lurking and waiting for sometime for someone to introduce this possibility, but it seems that my mind is either too weird or that I have too much time on my hands at present.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jul 1, 2005 3:05 pm (#639 of 1297)
I Am Almighty!
If you're right, Ag Hart, Aberforth's final words could be "It's a far, far better thing I do, than I have ever done to a goat."
If JKR does use a character as a Sydney Carton, my guess is that will be Tonks, who can look like anyone she chooses to.
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Veritaserum - Jul 1, 2005 3:31 pm (#640 of 1297)
Go Jays!
Hmm, Ag Hart and Vlad. Interesting ideas. Myself and some others on the Aberforth Dumbledore thread have somewhat of an affinity for him, and I for one do think he will have a bigger part to play in the next two books.
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Ag Hart - Jul 1, 2005 4:57 pm (#641 of 1297)
Lovely image, Vlad! Of course, if it is a case of mistaken identity and not intentional, he may only have time to bleat.
Seriously, if I'm right, we won't know it was Aberforth until Book 7, so that means we will have to suffer two to three years. Could Jo possibly be that cruel?
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Hollywand - Jul 1, 2005 5:47 pm (#642 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Silver Hart, your suggestion is wonderful. Great twist.
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Ag Hart - Jul 2, 2005 8:45 am (#643 of 1297)
Thank you, Hollywand. If as some readers have suggested Aberforth and Albus are twins, it seems natural that they may have been pulling the switch since their youth or that people simply have mistaken one for the other over the years.
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nu9p - Jul 8, 2005 9:01 am (#644 of 1297)
Question...Does anyone have any theories on how or if Harry will kill Voldemort? I know some people feel that Harry will get a new wand since his will not work properly against Voldemort's wand, or maybe Harry will sick a Dementor on Voldemort...remember Dumbledore reminds Voldemort that there are other ways of destroying a man than death...and if Voldemort really can't die than that would be a pretty decent way of destroying him. Anyways, I was just wondering what your thoughts were. If this has been discussed before, sorry!
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Chemyst - Jul 8, 2005 10:27 am (#645 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I have been wishy-washy for quite some time on the death pronounced by LV (he will be killed) because cowards often leave, and leaving "could" be cowardly (or could also be very smart). But with on a week to go before the guess would become a moot point, I'm saying Karkaroff dies in book six.
If Percy is to be redeemed, it would make sense that Penelope dies in his arms.
There are two divination teachers, and we need only one, so I predict Firenze will die. Even though the other centaurs aren't speaking to him now, his death will affect them, and all those who venture into the forest, leaving Trelawny free to make one more real prediction for book 7.
As you will find out, there have been equal numbers of headmistresses. Uh oh.
Does anyone have any theories on how or if Harry will kill Voldemort? Yeah, but just in wild brainstorming– Harry never does. LV will think he is killing Harry but, because of the rebounding curse, it is actually suicide.
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Steve Newton - Jul 9, 2005 6:03 pm (#646 of 1297)
Librarian
I have results of our posts. I did not count maybes, perhapses, probablies. Only definite statements. I did include 'thinks' since these are our thoughts.
OK, the results:
According to our combined wisdom, the one whose family is most likely to need a florist is....
Albus Dumbledore-31.
Next we have a tie between the charming duo of:
Peter and Voldemort-17 each.
Our beloved Professor Snape-11.
And one of truly beloved, Ron-10.
How about some groupings. The Weasley family. Ron, of course, 10. Percy-9. Molly-7. Fred or George-4. Surprisingly, neither got a vote on his own. One person said that both would go. I guess that no one else can tell them apart either. Arthur and Ginny-2 each.
The Dursleys-2. The Grangers-2. Lestrange brothers-1. Frank Longbottom-2 Alice Longbottom-1. Amelia Bones-1.
Students- Ron-10. Draco-6. Fred or George-4. Neville-4. Hermione-3. Harry-2 (I was surprised by this low number). Seamus-2. Crabbe or Goyle-1. Dean-1. Goyle-1. Susan Bones-1. Twins-1. Lucius or Draco-1. Half of a student, I guess.
Faculty.
Dumbledore-31. Snape-11. Lupin-8. Moody-7. Hagrid-6. Firenze-3. Sybill-3. McGonagall-2.
Other races.
Dobby-4. Firenze-3. Kreacher-2. Errol-1. I would take this one hard. Winky-1.
Edit: Sorry Saralinda again. I had this in process while you were posting.
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Saralinda Again - Jul 9, 2005 6:12 pm (#647 of 1297)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
I suppose it's too late to vote, but my family and I have been wondering whether Voldemort will try to get at Albus Dumbledore through his family, since His Squidship is a tad tough to take on in person. If so, Aberforth could be the first to die.
Also wondering suddenly whether the Dursleys could be targeted to get at Harry (I cannot see him taking it calmly, no matter how he loathes them). The closer we get to next Friday night, the more harebrained my ideas get ...
Sara/Kayte
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I Am Used Vlad - Jul 9, 2005 7:53 pm (#648 of 1297)
I Am Almighty!
I'm surprised Lucius was not mentioned more often.
Steve, I think you should count post #549 as a third vote for Harry dying. Harry's death is implied, although not directly stated, in my post.
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Steve Newton - Jul 9, 2005 7:56 pm (#649 of 1297)
Librarian
You see, implications are sometimes hard to figure out. You can count it if you like.
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Hollywand - Jul 9, 2005 10:44 pm (#650 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Thanks, Steve, for the tally. I am off to iron my hands for laughing whilst reading your delivery of the bad news. I hope Dumbledore isn't treated like an old, discarded slimy sock if he survives book six....there are some things worse than dying.....and that would be one of them.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Wow, Frogface, interesting catch. I would love to learn more about the veil. But, I wonder if the only one is in the MoM?
Sorry to be off subject.
I have been trying to figure out who is most likely to die, and I think that Hagrid would be most willing to sacrifice himself for Dumbledore. I just hope they aren't both killed.
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Cuivienen - Jun 24, 2005 4:15 pm (#602 of 1297)
I've just finished rereading Books 1-5, and I'm ready to repredict some deaths.
Vernon Dursley - Book 7
Originally, I thought that Vernon would die at the beginning of HBP. However, with JKR clarifying that Harry will be leaving Privet Drive for a happy reason, he'll probably die in Book 7 instead. Dudley and Petunia are not quite as likely to die.
Rubeus Hagrid - Book 7
I have difficulty predicting any deaths for HBP because I just can't see Book 7 without a lot of the characters that I think will die before the end. In any case, if Hagrid makes it to Book 7, I don't think he'll live more than 350 pages in.
Ron Weasley - Book 7
The real wrencher. Ron will die. There are too many subtle clues that have been laid out in other threads that indicate that Ron won't live to graduate. I don't like it any more than you, but I think he'll die in the last battle, around the same time as...
Albus Dumbledore - Book 7
I'm sorry to say it, but Dumbledore's death is a no-brainer. He's the elderly mentor whose time has passed. He, like Ron, will die in the climactic final battle.
Percy Weasley - HBP
I'm not sure I can explain why I think Percy will die. I doubt that he will make up with the rest of the family, and the Ministry is about to undergo major changes. Percy will probably lose his job and die pointlessly later on or be killed while on the job as the Ministry fights Voldemort.
Voldemort - Book 7
Duh.
Neville Longbottom - HBP
I think that Neville, while not the HBP, will be integral to the plot of HBP. Unfortunately for him, being integral to the plot likely means that he will die towards the end.
And that's all right now.
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pottermom34 - Jun 24, 2005 8:22 pm (#603 of 1297)
Maybe, Voldemort will confirm that Snape is the "coward that left him" or the "one that left forever" (GoF) and he will die (sorry Gina, nothing personal). I'm not saying I want him to, but it's a possibilty.
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Veritaserum - Jun 24, 2005 9:38 pm (#604 of 1297)
Go Jays!
Oh wow, killing Snape off just when he was getting interesting? That would be a diabolical thing to do, yet somehow, I wouldn't put it past JKR. Didn't she tell people not to like Snape too much? At any rate, I am really interested to see what does become of him.
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HungarianHorntail11 - Jun 25, 2005 5:15 am (#605 of 1297)
The heart sees deeper than the eye.
pottermom34, there was a discussion on some thread (Snape?) regarding just that. The end result was thinking that Karkaroff was the "coward" who "will be punished" by killing off the "one who left forever" ("he will be killed"), meaning Snape.
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essie125 - Jun 27, 2005 6:54 am (#606 of 1297)
Jo, of course I think about Alan when I think about Snape, Who wouldn't think about Alan all day every day eh.
How can Snape be a spy for DD if LV will kill him if he sees him? Now that the other deatheaters know this won't they try to get into LV's good books by handing Snape over to LV. On the other hadn I don't think Snape is the type for letting himself be handed over to LV. He won't be able to find out much about what the others are doing if they won't tell him anything. LV will find out in an instince whether they are betrating him. He;ll just read their minds.
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Veritaserum - Jun 27, 2005 11:18 am (#607 of 1297)
Go Jays!
I wonder if how much the DE's know about each other and Voldy. Considering the way they were all cloaked and many were unnamed, it's possible that, in case they might have to take Veritaserum, they're kept in the dark about things. In which case, Snape could come up to a DE who doesn't know he's really a good guy and use him to get information, under the pretenses of it being Voldemort's orders.
Sorry if this is too off-topic. Feel free to move it if needs be.
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KTO - Jun 27, 2005 12:43 pm (#608 of 1297)
Deaths
While I believe there will be some, I am refusing to think that they will include, Ron or any of the other main characters under age. dumbledore, he has led a full life and his death while sorrowful will not be a tragedy. JK loves these characters even more then us and while an author must follow the story and let the characters go where they will, the author can direct.
No way is JK going to kill her best friend (Ron), nor Hermione (herself), nor Harry ( it's Harry, he has had enough, now he needs to live a long life full of wisdom and peace) nor Neville ( the part of all of us that doubts but ultimatley triumphs). It is NOT going to happen.
Ron might lose a parent or an older, not that important sibling to bring death home, but parents should never have to see thier child die, Real war is horrible enough, we need our books to give us hope.
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frogface - Jun 27, 2005 2:38 pm (#609 of 1297)
I would like to agree with KTO, but shes already killed off Cedric and he was only a sixth year wasn't he? Also you can't say "this deffinatly will not happen" because you don't know, you can believe all you want, but that doesn't mean you know.
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HungarianHorntail11 - Jun 27, 2005 5:03 pm (#610 of 1297)
The heart sees deeper than the eye.
I have to agree, frogface. As much as I like those ideas KTO, it seems more like wishful thinking than anything fact-based.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 28, 2005 8:51 am (#611 of 1297)
Hi,
With less than three weeks left in this seemingly interminable wait for the arrival of HBP, I will make my guesses as to who will die.
Percy Weasley. Why? First and foremost, he is a git! Although this is not sufficient, I feel that it is necessary. If he were to die, none of us would miss him. Of course, the entire Weasley family would be devastated and Molly would be inconsolable. Harry would do his best to help his dearest friend, Ron. But, Percy's death will bring Ron and Hermione closer. Finally, the death of a "pure-blood" will galvanize the WW into action.
As for other deaths, although there may be some, I'm guessing (hoping?) that none of the main characters will die. I am concerned about DD, though. The rumors of his demise are too pervasive to be ignored.
OK? That's my two knuts worth.
Accio! Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks,
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KTO - Jun 28, 2005 10:56 am (#612 of 1297)
I will either be proven right at the end of book seven or go into a ten day depression!
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Tomoé - Jun 28, 2005 12:55 pm (#613 of 1297)
Back in business
Here's a nice quote about who she's going to kill:
E: You know, characters take on their own lives. They have their own stories. Writers often say, 'I loved that character and the most tragic part of my year last year was having to kill them off.'
JK: Well that's coming.
E: Do you know already who is going to die in the next books?
JK: I know all of them who are going to die, yeah.
E: And some characters we might love and you might love?
JK: I'm definitely killing people I love, yeah. (Waves to fans outside) It's horrible, isn't it? (Laughs) It is actually. I cried during the writing of that one [Book Four] for the first time ever. I cried doing the actual writing of it. It really upset me.
E: It opens with a murder and then there's one at the end, which I won't say who it is. And you cried then?
JK: Yeah.
E: But in the future there's even more…
JK: (Laughs deeply) There's worse coming.
E: Is there? There's even worse coming, isn't there?
JK: I don't know why I'm laughing. It's mild hysteria. (Looks at camera) I've got all these children peering in at me [from outside the train]. If they knew I was talking about slaughtering their favourite characters. (Waves vigorously to fans) Hallo!
E: People love Ron, for example. Kids think you're going to knock off Ron because he's the best friend.
JK: Kids do, exactly, because they're sharp and they've seen so many films where the hero's best friend gets it. So they think I'm going to make it personal by killing Ron. But maybe that's a double bluff… (Laughs)
E: Now that you know they expect it, do you give it to them?
JK: No, I decided… It's not that I sat down with a list and decided to write, 'You're going, you're going, you're going.' There are reasons for the deaths in each case, in terms of the story. So that's why I'm doing it. (CBCNewsWorld: Hot Type, July 13, 2000)
"I'm definitely killing people I love, yeah [...] It is actually" I think it's no character is safe.
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Ruthie - Jun 28, 2005 2:54 pm (#614 of 1297)
Thanks Tomoe I was wondering if JKR had said anything like that : ) Well I think that pretty much says that no one really has any idea about who will die because none of us know how the story goes. For all we know it could be someone who is introduced in HBP that dies (like Cedric in GOF. He was basically a new character)
But that doesn't mean we can't try! I think Percy will be going for the same reasons as Joanne R. Reid
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Tomoé - Jun 28, 2005 3:18 pm (#615 of 1297)
Back in business
I don't believe she'll go back to the GoF mood and kill someone we don't know much, I believe it will be a death even worst than Sirius's for book 6, someone we know much better, and one of the trio for book 7.
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Hollywand - Jun 28, 2005 5:06 pm (#616 of 1297)
Gryffindor
In light of the quote Tomoe provided above, maybe we should identify people who have a "reason" for dying that would advance the story. Here are some of my speculations, and if anyone else has some "plot advancing deaths" it would be interesting to speculate:
James and Lily: we know we will get Harry's history, so these two beloved characters will be described, and their demise---it is sure to be traumatic for all of us, especially Harry.
Karkaroff: "too cowardly to return" Voldemort is sure to be after him; Durmstrang may be a great recruitment site for Death Nibblers, and the faculty very supportive of Voldemort's cause. Karkaroff, as a coward, may do something very much like Wormtail, a double betrayal to try to save his own yellow skin.
Sibyll Trelawney: We already have back up faculty for her. She has been seeing very little but death, death, death. Perhaps she is predicting her own death. One more prophecy, and she heads for that great Tea Room in the mysterious beyond.
Wormtail: He's dying an inch at a time, here. First a finger, then a hand, what else can he cut off and still survive? His death in Book Six would ad interesting intrigue to the resolution of the story in Book Seven, as it would be a bit premature.
The Dursleys: Harry leaves Privet for a pleasant reason, returns "home" to a destroyed 4 Privet. The "destruction of private drives" advances Harry's wizard development. Harry explores feelings of grief for the deaths of people that weren't very kind to him. Voldemort makes yet another tactical error that costs lives.
One of the Weasleys: I base this on a folk superstition in the British Isles regarding weasels. If one weasel is attacked, the whole pack of weasels will retaliate. There are "Appease the Weasel" historical festivals. All of the Weasley children either have some association with dragons or have been quietly receiving dragon hide garments, save for Ginny and Percy. The death of Ginny seems to have the most potential, as she was previously taken over by Tom Riddle's diary. Maybe "Draco's detour" refers to "death by dragon" for someone in the story.
These deaths seem to have potential for advancing the plot story.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 28, 2005 9:39 pm (#617 of 1297)
I think our beloved Dumbledore will die at the end of book 6.The only consolation is that his portrait will most probably hang in the Headmasters room and Harry will still be able to communicate and get counsel from him.
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Neville Longbottom - Jun 29, 2005 12:15 am (#618 of 1297)
I agree. If there is one death, who advances the plot, it is Dumbledore's, IMO. Harry has to suceed without him, and so does everyone else. Dumbledore is the one, who keeps everything together, and seeing him go, would make for a compelling plot in book 7, IMO. Besides, Old Voldie needs a reason to attack Hogwarts.
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HungarianHorntail11 - Jun 29, 2005 5:18 am (#619 of 1297)
The heart sees deeper than the eye.
Well, if the Dursleys do indeed get attacked, Harry will need a new residence and this time, DD wouldn't make the mistake of allowing anyone else to be secret keeper but himself. It follows suit then, that Big V would have to go after DD himself, as I don't think any of the DEs would even chance a go at him.
Wormtail: He's dying an inch at a time, here. First a finger, then a hand, what else can he cut off and still survive?
LOL, that is so funny, Hollywand and true. I have a feeling we will not have any Marauders left by the time JKR gets through with them.
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Mrs Brisbee - Jun 29, 2005 6:24 am (#620 of 1297)
I think Dumbledore's death would advance the plot too. The only reason I'm against it is that it would be so clichéd. Perhaps if he died quietly in his sleep of old age --since people do actually die of natural causes even in times of war, and maybe it would be good to be reminded again that death often comes to those we love by means which aren't violent.
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Snuffles - Jun 29, 2005 6:35 am (#621 of 1297)
Olivia
Ooh HH11! I for one hope there is 1 Marauder left, our dear Werewolf himself, I really don't want him to die!
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pottermom34 - Jun 29, 2005 6:50 am (#622 of 1297)
I have a feeling we will not have any Marauders left by the time JKR gets through with them
actually that doesn't sound too far fetched. There are 2 marauders left and on other threads there has been discussion about Peter owing Harry because he spared him so to speak. I wouldn't be surprised if (I hate to say it) Lupin gets killed defending Harry or as a werewolf somehow, and Harry ends up having to go to Peter for help or answers.
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Hollywand - Jun 29, 2005 7:13 am (#623 of 1297)
Gryffindor
I agree with those that have suggested that Dumbledore's death at the end of Book Six would smack of cliche. I would prefer that Dumbledore choose his exit rather than have his life taken forcibly from him. I also feel that taking Dumbledore's voice would cripple the narrative flow rather than advance the plot. Who is left as the insightful sage who draws the order from the chaos? Severus? Hagrid? McGonnagall? Hermione? Harry? I can't imagine any of them taking over his narrative.
Dumbledore has allowed Harry to develop without him in almost every single book. In every encounter, Harry faces Voldemort alone, including the last book, where Dumbledore was powerless to help extract Voldemort from Harry's body. With this non-intervention pattern, I'm don't think having Dumbledore compeletely absent would be significantly "forward". Dumbledore had very little mentor contact with Harry in Order of the Phoenix until the close of the book.
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Saralinda Again - Jun 29, 2005 9:06 am (#624 of 1297)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
Hollywand: Wormtail: He's dying an inch at a time, here. First a finger, then a hand, what else can he cut off and still survive?
If he cuts off any more, he'll be completely 'armless, right?
:: ducking and running :::
Sara/Kayte, trying to look ashamed and failing
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Hollywand - Jun 29, 2005 9:42 am (#625 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Well, Saralinda, Wormtail has, in effect, "Dismembered himself" from the Order, wouldn't you say? ;-)
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Veritaserum - Jun 29, 2005 9:55 am (#626 of 1297)
Go Jays!
I don't think Lupin will die, because I don't want the entire generation to die out (ie the Marauders). I think one needs to survive to tell the tale. Lupin's lot in life is to endure while everyone else gets to simply die. Plus, when Dumbledore dies, Lupin can take over that mentor/father figure in Harry's life.
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HungarianHorntail11 - Jun 29, 2005 2:14 pm (#627 of 1297)
The heart sees deeper than the eye.
I would hate to see Lupin die, also. It's just that ominous silver hand that Pettigrew is now sporting and I'm sure he'll remember they wanted to kill him back in the shrieking shack.
Hollywand, I sure hope you're right. Your reasoning makes sense. Now, if we could just convince Rowling . . .
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Kwikspell - Jun 29, 2005 5:54 pm (#628 of 1297)
Marketers? Bah!
I agree that Dumbledore's death would smack of cliché, but it could also make for an amazing story line. The state of the wizarding world would be in a state of extreme panic, to say the very least--all sorts of possibilities there. If anyone could pull it off, Rowling could.
I also think one of the Weasleys will die: my money is on Percy, Arthur or Molly. Percy because of the lack of dragon hide protection and the parents because...well, it would be like Harry losing a parent...again. (Poor Harry!)
I'm guessing that Professor Sprout is going to be killed in the 7th book. Pure speculation on my behalf based on my belief that Neville will be the student that stays on to teach at Hogwarts.
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Finn BV - Jun 29, 2005 6:11 pm (#629 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I don't know that Sprout's quite that important enough to be killed, but it certainly would be emotional enough for Neville to step up his game. I'm actually not seeing any current teachers at Hogwarts dying (with the possible exception of Dumbledore).
Ok, I'm officially laying down my predictions for Steve Newton to "Excel"-ize:
A vote for Dumbledore, but not until Book 7. That McSweeney article yesterday actually made me think: Given his prominent placement on the cover, it is unlikely that the first line of the book will be "Harry was surprised and saddened by Dumbledore's sudden death, and he vowed to never think of the old wizard again." I know it's funny, but still: I just don't think DD's appearance on the cover earns him eternal sleep here. It is most appropriate in Book 7 when the Wizarding World will be waging full battle.
Percy Weasley, possibly at the end of HBP, although also possible during the summer in between HBP and HP7.
Molly Weasley, some time after Percy.
A member of the Order, like Figgy, Dung, or someone like that. Not really sure when; for argument's sake I'll say #7.
Lastly, either Pettigrew or Lupin. This is a tough choice but I think I'm going to have to go with (and trust me, I do not want to say it) Lupin. Lupin will die in HBP, which will thoroughly sadden Harry. Pettigrew, however, will follow, because he cannot be the only Marauder to survive. He'll get the axe in HP7.
***breathes a sigh of relief at getting that off his chest***
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 29, 2005 6:57 pm (#630 of 1297)
fbv807 I agree some of the Order members will die. Look at how many died in the last war. I hope Dumbledore makes it all the way through.
I think Snape will die. He will prove himself in the end loyal to Dumbledore. LPO
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Mrs Brisbee - Jun 29, 2005 7:33 pm (#631 of 1297)
I agree that Dumbledore's death would smack of cliché, but it could also make for an amazing story line. The state of the wizarding world would be in a state of extreme panic, to say the very least--all sorts of possibilities there. If anyone could pull it off, Rowling could. --Kwikspell
I agree that Rowling can tell a story well, even when she is going over well trodden ground. She has set up Dumbledore as the only wizard Voldemort has ever feared, so she will have to do something with him eventually to move the story along. I guess there is a good reason it is a cliché, if it is so often a necessary plot point.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 29, 2005 8:12 pm (#632 of 1297)
I Am Almighty!
There is an old quote from JKR that says that we will find out at some point that Hogwarts has had an equal number of Headmasters and Headmistresses. I think the most obvious way for us to find this out is if Dumbledore is killed and needs to be replaced. At the moment, I think he'll probably be killed towards the end of HBP, possibly in the scene depicted on the UK Children's cover.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 29, 2005 11:25 pm (#633 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Ok Vlad, don't tease. Where's the quote?
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Cuivienen - Jun 30, 2005 7:12 am (#634 of 1297)
Would Umbridge count in that list of Headmasters and Headmistresses? If so, the next one must be a Headmaster, if not, a Headmistress (McGonagall, probably).
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Snuffles - Jun 30, 2005 7:19 am (#635 of 1297)
Olivia
I don't think Umbridge will count as no one else at Hogwarts really regarded her as Headmistress. Even the head's office sealed itself against her.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 30, 2005 1:56 pm (#636 of 1297)
I Am Almighty!
And in fact, if you look at the Hogwarts' staff - I had this discussion with someone the other day - it is exactly 50/50. Although it is true that you do have a headmaster as opposed to a headmistress, but that has not always been the case. As you will find out, there have been equal numbers of headmistresses.
That's the full quote, TBE. I take it as a death clue because, as I said earlier, we will probably learn this when Dumbledore is being replaced.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 30, 2005 5:27 pm (#637 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Thank you.
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Ag Hart - Jul 1, 2005 9:41 am (#638 of 1297)
Does anyone think that another Dumbledore might die? Obviously, JKR introduced Aberforth for a reason. Perhaps she intends to use him as a Sydney Carton, except it would be the readers she intends to fool. He probably looks something like Dumbledore. (I thought that was the main reason Harry thought he looked familiar, rather than the fact that Harry had recently seen his picture in a crowded photograph.) It wouldn't take much transfiguring, maybe just a good clean up. Everyone gets nervous when JKR mentions how old Albus looks from time to time. Perhaps that is just part of the set up. Aberforth could intentionally set himself up as a decoy or his death could simply be a case of mistaken identity. This would allow for the possibility of Albus Dumbledore's return in Book 7.
I would much rather see Aberforth die than Albus, so this is probably wishful thinking on my part, but it does seem to fit in with the type of misdirection JKR likes to use. She does love her red herrings. If Albus does die in Book 6, I think he will need to return in some form in the final book. Does anyone know if the Time-Turner can be used to propel people into the future? (Perhaps another device might be needed?) That would be a way other than those previously mentioned in the forum that would allow Dumbledore to reappear and counsel Harry if need be.
I have been lurking and waiting for sometime for someone to introduce this possibility, but it seems that my mind is either too weird or that I have too much time on my hands at present.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jul 1, 2005 3:05 pm (#639 of 1297)
I Am Almighty!
If you're right, Ag Hart, Aberforth's final words could be "It's a far, far better thing I do, than I have ever done to a goat."
If JKR does use a character as a Sydney Carton, my guess is that will be Tonks, who can look like anyone she chooses to.
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Veritaserum - Jul 1, 2005 3:31 pm (#640 of 1297)
Go Jays!
Hmm, Ag Hart and Vlad. Interesting ideas. Myself and some others on the Aberforth Dumbledore thread have somewhat of an affinity for him, and I for one do think he will have a bigger part to play in the next two books.
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Ag Hart - Jul 1, 2005 4:57 pm (#641 of 1297)
Lovely image, Vlad! Of course, if it is a case of mistaken identity and not intentional, he may only have time to bleat.
Seriously, if I'm right, we won't know it was Aberforth until Book 7, so that means we will have to suffer two to three years. Could Jo possibly be that cruel?
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Hollywand - Jul 1, 2005 5:47 pm (#642 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Silver Hart, your suggestion is wonderful. Great twist.
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Ag Hart - Jul 2, 2005 8:45 am (#643 of 1297)
Thank you, Hollywand. If as some readers have suggested Aberforth and Albus are twins, it seems natural that they may have been pulling the switch since their youth or that people simply have mistaken one for the other over the years.
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nu9p - Jul 8, 2005 9:01 am (#644 of 1297)
Question...Does anyone have any theories on how or if Harry will kill Voldemort? I know some people feel that Harry will get a new wand since his will not work properly against Voldemort's wand, or maybe Harry will sick a Dementor on Voldemort...remember Dumbledore reminds Voldemort that there are other ways of destroying a man than death...and if Voldemort really can't die than that would be a pretty decent way of destroying him. Anyways, I was just wondering what your thoughts were. If this has been discussed before, sorry!
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Chemyst - Jul 8, 2005 10:27 am (#645 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I have been wishy-washy for quite some time on the death pronounced by LV (he will be killed) because cowards often leave, and leaving "could" be cowardly (or could also be very smart). But with on a week to go before the guess would become a moot point, I'm saying Karkaroff dies in book six.
If Percy is to be redeemed, it would make sense that Penelope dies in his arms.
There are two divination teachers, and we need only one, so I predict Firenze will die. Even though the other centaurs aren't speaking to him now, his death will affect them, and all those who venture into the forest, leaving Trelawny free to make one more real prediction for book 7.
As you will find out, there have been equal numbers of headmistresses. Uh oh.
Does anyone have any theories on how or if Harry will kill Voldemort? Yeah, but just in wild brainstorming– Harry never does. LV will think he is killing Harry but, because of the rebounding curse, it is actually suicide.
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Steve Newton - Jul 9, 2005 6:03 pm (#646 of 1297)
Librarian
I have results of our posts. I did not count maybes, perhapses, probablies. Only definite statements. I did include 'thinks' since these are our thoughts.
OK, the results:
According to our combined wisdom, the one whose family is most likely to need a florist is....
Albus Dumbledore-31.
Next we have a tie between the charming duo of:
Peter and Voldemort-17 each.
Our beloved Professor Snape-11.
And one of truly beloved, Ron-10.
How about some groupings. The Weasley family. Ron, of course, 10. Percy-9. Molly-7. Fred or George-4. Surprisingly, neither got a vote on his own. One person said that both would go. I guess that no one else can tell them apart either. Arthur and Ginny-2 each.
The Dursleys-2. The Grangers-2. Lestrange brothers-1. Frank Longbottom-2 Alice Longbottom-1. Amelia Bones-1.
Students- Ron-10. Draco-6. Fred or George-4. Neville-4. Hermione-3. Harry-2 (I was surprised by this low number). Seamus-2. Crabbe or Goyle-1. Dean-1. Goyle-1. Susan Bones-1. Twins-1. Lucius or Draco-1. Half of a student, I guess.
Faculty.
Dumbledore-31. Snape-11. Lupin-8. Moody-7. Hagrid-6. Firenze-3. Sybill-3. McGonagall-2.
Other races.
Dobby-4. Firenze-3. Kreacher-2. Errol-1. I would take this one hard. Winky-1.
Edit: Sorry Saralinda again. I had this in process while you were posting.
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Saralinda Again - Jul 9, 2005 6:12 pm (#647 of 1297)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
I suppose it's too late to vote, but my family and I have been wondering whether Voldemort will try to get at Albus Dumbledore through his family, since His Squidship is a tad tough to take on in person. If so, Aberforth could be the first to die.
Also wondering suddenly whether the Dursleys could be targeted to get at Harry (I cannot see him taking it calmly, no matter how he loathes them). The closer we get to next Friday night, the more harebrained my ideas get ...
Sara/Kayte
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I Am Used Vlad - Jul 9, 2005 7:53 pm (#648 of 1297)
I Am Almighty!
I'm surprised Lucius was not mentioned more often.
Steve, I think you should count post #549 as a third vote for Harry dying. Harry's death is implied, although not directly stated, in my post.
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Steve Newton - Jul 9, 2005 7:56 pm (#649 of 1297)
Librarian
You see, implications are sometimes hard to figure out. You can count it if you like.
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Hollywand - Jul 9, 2005 10:44 pm (#650 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Thanks, Steve, for the tally. I am off to iron my hands for laughing whilst reading your delivery of the bad news. I hope Dumbledore isn't treated like an old, discarded slimy sock if he survives book six....there are some things worse than dying.....and that would be one of them.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 651 to 700)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 10:54 am
Cuivienen - Jul 10, 2005 8:15 am (#651 of 1297)
I think if he doesn't die people will just be wondering how far in he'll die in Book 7.
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Steve Newton - Jul 10, 2005 10:43 am (#652 of 1297)
Librarian
I didn't do a count of which book people thought the deaths would occur in. Most didn't indicate, anyway.
Just to be clear I also only counted one death even if the same person posted the same death many times. One person made a sort of cottage industry out of killing Ron.
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Hollywand - Jul 10, 2005 11:56 am (#653 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Steve, don't you think we will get historical deaths as well? We are sure to get the deaths of Lily and James and other members of the Order as Harry learns about his personal history.
Sibyll tells me that predicting the past is a lot easier.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 10, 2005 3:38 pm (#654 of 1297)
Hollywand, this quotation regarding the Prewetts I found on J.K. Rowling's website
Gideon and Fabian Prewett were Molly Weasley’s brothers Yes, they were, but their history is not particularly significant in terms of the overall plot, except in so far as their deaths obviously explain and excuse some of Mrs. Weasley’s fears and her arguably over-protective stance with regard to Harry.
This quotation tends to make me think that the readers will not learn all that much about the members order during the first war unless J.K. Rowling produces an HP Encyclopedia.
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Steve Newton - Jul 10, 2005 3:43 pm (#655 of 1297)
Librarian
Hollywand, I think that in HBP we could see any death except Harry. At some point I think that we are going to visit Godric's Hollow on the fatal night. I don't know if it will be in HBP or not. I would not be surprised if we visited it more than once on the fatal night.
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KTO - Jul 11, 2005 1:09 pm (#656 of 1297)
in terms of a dementor killing Lord V. he is already soul-less, so in my opinion no dementors kiss for him, I am sticking with my theory that LV dies as Tom ( I know very starwarsish, but I love it) KT
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Chemyst - Jul 14, 2005 4:53 pm (#657 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Thanks for doing a tally Steve. You must have had fairly stringent guidelines on determining when someone predicted a death, because I certainly meant for this student death from my post #53 to count –
"Dennis Creevey does seem to be tailor made to be a likely casualty. The little tyke is cute & innocent, he has a brother whose story can be used to amplify the impact, and he is close-but-not-too-close to Harry. 'Sounds like a goner to me."
Anyway, thanks for doing the tally. It was interesting.
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Steve Newton - Jul 14, 2005 6:52 pm (#658 of 1297)
Librarian
Chemyst, I would not have counted this but I do see what you mean. If I had taken anything but clear statements I would never have been done.
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Kip Carter - Aug 2, 2005 11:29 am (#659 of 1297)
co-Host with Steve on the Lexicon Forum, but he has the final say as the Owner!
This thread was closed down during the sixteen day period surrounding the release of Book Six. It is now opened for posts.
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David Breeze - Aug 3, 2005 5:26 am (#660 of 1297)
Edited by Aug 3, 2005 5:32 am
1) A death in the Weasley family is guaranteed I feel. For such a large family, It would be remarkable if they all survived.
2) Fenrir Greyback will be killed by Peter
3) Peter will die because...he...well...he's got to really...
4) Voldemort will die because he is the bad guy
5) Snape will die heroically after revealing he has been loyal to the order the whole time. There would be too many difficult scenarios if he was to live.
6) Elphias Dodge or Hestia Jones will die because some members of the order HAVE to die and they are the randomised members whoose death would not affect the main storyline too much.
7) Macnair will provide a nice meal for Buckbeak
This is supposedly a childrens series, so I daubt that there will be any more deaths than I have listed. Therefore, sadly, most of the Death Eaters will survive. However, Azkaban will certainly be a lot less empty cells.
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Weeny Owl - Aug 3, 2005 8:47 am (#661 of 1297)
Way back on June 20, 2004, I wrote this: There are plenty of Ministry employees who might die, and I only hope Amelia Bones isn't one of them.
(Sniff, sob) I really didn't want Amelia to die. I wanted her to be the next Minister.
More Ministry employees will die, but I'm sure Umbridge and Percy will survive and continue being just what they've always been.
I can see more Hogwarts students dying. If their family members can be killed, so can they.
I thought for ages that Lupin would die since he was the last true Marauder, but I'm more hopeful now that he and Tonks are together.
I still think one of the Weasleys will die, but it won't be Ron or Ginny, and with Bill already having an affliction, I think he and Fleur will survive.
One of the professors will probably die. It could be one of the ones we rarely see such as Sinistra or Vector.
With Dumbledore gone, I can see the Ministry taking a "no prisoners" stance and allowing Aurors to kill rather than capture. I think quite a few Death Eaters will die.
I want Snape to live, but his chances are highly unlikely now.
I think one of the Malfoys will die, but at the hands of the Death Eaters, and that will make the two remaining Malfoys switch sides, even if they still hold their same beliefs about blood.
Voldemort will die, and I feel Harry will survive.
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Finn BV - Aug 3, 2005 9:35 am (#662 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I still think one of the Weasleys will die, but it won't be Ron or Ginny, and with Bill already having an affliction, I think he and Fleur will survive. --Weeny Owl
I always felt that Charlie had the smallest part in all the books, and it wouldn't mean much (to the reader, at least) if he had to go. I thought for a fleeting second Fred and George would be the next to go, while I was reading Chapter 6 (U-No-Poo was the kicker in this thought). Their play at Voldemort could make them very vulnerable – we know the DEs don't avoid Diagon Alley. However, I think they're going to make it through to the end.
One of the professors will probably die. It could be one of the ones we rarely see such as Sinistra or Vector.
In addition one that we know fairly well – like Sprout, for instance – is a large target for the reason that we it will have some impact but not as big as Dumbledore's death.
Voldemort will die, and I feel Harry will survive.
With you on that one.
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Neville Longbottom - Aug 4, 2005 8:48 am (#663 of 1297)
Voldemort will die, as will Horcrux-Nagini. Peter will meet his maker as well but not after he somehow helped Harry), same for Bellatrix. I think the Malfoys have a chance to survive, you can't kill what they stand for. (Though I admit ferret boy did show some hints for redemption, which I never expected). Snape will die as well, I think, but heroically, and we'll learn that he was on Dumbledore's side all the time.
I fear Neville might die, but I really hope not. If Neville does not die, than Professor Sprout will, so that the post as Herbology teacher will be free for Neville. Percy might as well, in a redemption scene, saving Ron. Trelawney is in danger, and seeing that seer and propehts often died, I think she might as well.
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HungarianHorntail11 - Aug 11, 2005 11:23 am (#664 of 1297)
The heart sees deeper than the eye.
I think Narcissa might die, Big V will find out about the Unbreakable Vow and kill her, thus killing two birds with one stone (punishing Lucius and Draco); which will, in turn pit Draco against his father and land him against Big V.
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Madam Pince - Aug 11, 2005 12:37 pm (#665 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Why do you think that would pit Draco against Lucius? Because Lucius being a DE was what got Narcissa endangered in the first place? That could be interesting...
Dads really are getting a "short end of the stick" in JKR's world, that's for sure. The only really completely "good" one we've seen is Arthur, right? (Of the fully developed characters, I mean -- we don't know much about Mr. Granger or Frank Longbottom, though they seem to be OK.)
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HungarianHorntail11 - Aug 11, 2005 12:56 pm (#666 of 1297)
The heart sees deeper than the eye.
Draco's behavior in the bathroom is evident that he has been put into a situation he is unhappy about. This is due to his father's "slippery" behavior in Big V's eyes. Hence, Draco will mourn for his mother and resent his father for the situation which presented itself in the first place.
I'm not entirely convinced this will happen (Book 7 is getting longer and longer!), but Draco doesn't reflect his father's views, though he "parroted" them. Some animosity is bound to come out of this situation one way or another.
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kingdolohov - Aug 11, 2005 6:49 pm (#667 of 1297)
Death Eaters I believe will die, and at the hands of whom:
1. Bellatrix Lestrange at the hands of Neville 2. Antonin Dolohov at the hands of a Weasley (he killed Molly's brothers) 3. Fenrir Greyback at the silver hand of Peter Pettigrew (not really original, sorry)
I think the Death Eaters at the top will get killed.
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James Marcus - Aug 25, 2005 11:48 am (#668 of 1297)
Very interesting... someone mentioned (I think in MuggleNet) that in 4, 5, and 6, the one who dies is on the cover of the American version (Sirus is on the back of OOTP). So maybe when the cover is released, we'll have a good guess at it.
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KWeldon - Aug 26, 2005 10:14 am (#669 of 1297)
I actually thought the person on the back of OotP was Lupin, since he was often mentioned in the context of Tonks and Moody, but I guess it probably should be Sirius. Hmmmm...
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 26, 2005 12:21 pm (#670 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Hmm, Harry is also on the American cover of book six...
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Saralinda Again - Aug 26, 2005 2:26 pm (#671 of 1297)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
Harry doesn't count, TBE. Harry is on the cover of every book.
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Stephanie M. - Aug 27, 2005 6:04 pm (#672 of 1297)
Ooo I never thought that the person who dies is on the American cover!
But Quirrell isn't on the first cover... unless I'm missing him.
There is a unicorn though... And the unicorn dies...
But Quirrell wasn't an important death...
Goes off to look at all of the covers*
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Potter Ace - Sep 14, 2005 7:04 am (#673 of 1297)
Wasn't Hermoine (riding Buckbeak with Harry) on the cover of POA American version? I'm not finding a whole lot to go on in think that the Cover theory holds water.
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Mrs. Sirius - Sep 18, 2005 10:17 pm (#674 of 1297)
Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
On the back of OoTP, Lupin is included with the three people whose faces are shown. However, I think in the back ground, Sirius is shown in shadow.
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Finn BV - Sep 25, 2005 1:30 pm (#675 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I guess the GrandPré interview today shuts down this theory about the cover art. Certainly it doesn't sound like she has much interaction with JKR, and that she "reads through" the manuscripts to find scenes that would make good covers – not scenes with people who will die. She doesn't know the ending of the books. Another theory shot to pieces.
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Esther Rose - Sep 30, 2005 9:42 am (#676 of 1297)
Hmmm... Who will go?
Snape: The unbreakable vow does him in. Hagrid: Once someone says "It takes a lot ter do me in." What ever it takes is going to happen to them. Percy or Mrs. Weasley: A Weasley will die. The death of either one could reunify the family. Lucius Malfoy: Dies once he is out of Askaban. Fenir Greybeck: Makes too many enemies on both sides of the war.
The trio will all survive or all die.
I am not so sure Wormtail will go. The best justice for him is to send him to Askaban for life.
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Finn BV - Sep 30, 2005 2:37 pm (#677 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
The trio will all survive or all die.
Ooh… I like that. Haven't thought of it that way before. Sure hope it's the former!
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Maddest Dragon - Dec 18, 2005 3:40 am (#678 of 1297)
Edited by Kip Carter Dec 18, 2005 2:58 am
Dads really are getting a "short end of the stick" in JKR's world, that's for sure. The only really completely "good" one we've seen is Arthur, right?
Good point. I think it's notable that, with the exception of Arthur, none of the men who've been father figures to Harry (which Arthur is in only a minor way compared with Sirius, Dumbledore, and Lupin) have any children of their own as far as we know. And two of them are now dead. Does that mean Lupin's next? I hope not--but maybe so.
Really, I don't know who's going to die next, and I'm not even going to try to guess... but I've been convinced for some time that Neville won't survive the series. I think he has an important role to play in the final battle against Voldemort, and it will end with his death. We've already seen many hints that Neville could be a substitute for Harry: the prophecy that could have meant either of them; Harry's dream about Quidditch (I think in PoA, but I'm not sure). And Neville fought alongside Harry at the MoM, to where it was eventually the two of them against the Death Eaters. I think they'll fight side by side again, with Neville being the one to take a killing curse.
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Mrs Brisbee - Dec 18, 2005 8:16 am (#679 of 1297)
Hagrid's father was good. It was his mother who abandoned them. Cedric Diggory's father was a good man. Luna seems to be close to her father. James died trying to buy a few seconds for his wife and son to escape Voldemort. I could probably come up with more examples of good fathers with a little more time. Rowling is emphasizing the impact of good parents (and guardians) over the bad, but I'm not sure fathers are getting the short end of the stick. Perhaps it's just that there are so many more male characters developed so it is easier to come up with examples.
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Diagon Nilly - Jan 10, 2006 5:11 pm (#680 of 1297)
In her Tatler interview which came out today:
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JKR says: "She was talking to her husband, Neil, recently, after she had just written the death of one particular character. "He shuddered. 'Oh don't do that,' he said to me, but of course I did."
And with one swirl of her pen, millions of children will weep or rejoice."
Hmm... who could she be talking about?
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Finn BV - Jan 10, 2006 8:06 pm (#681 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Diagon Nilly, I think that's a reference to Dumbledore in HBP. The 'of course I did' would imply it has already happened. And I think I remember seeing the general lines of that quote before.
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Diagon Nilly - Jan 10, 2006 9:56 pm (#682 of 1297)
Ah yuck. I was hoping for new tidbits already. :::raspberries:::
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Amilia Smith - Jan 11, 2006 12:56 am (#683 of 1297)
Oh, I dunno. I think it is someone new. Or at least that the journalist thought she was talking about someone new. To add a bit of context to Diagon Nilly's quote:
In the seventh and final Harry Potter book, there will be deaths of both goodies and baddies.
She was talking to her husband, Neil, recently, after she had just written the death of one particular character. "He shuddered. 'Oh don't do that,' he said to me, but of course I did."
And with one swirl of her pen, millions of children will weep or rejoice. Countless Harry Potter websites try to predict what will happen in the final book. "Neil is the only person I can talk to about what happens because he instantly forgets," she says, laughing.
End quote.
So I'm somewhat worried about deaths. Plural. Of multiple "goodies." I rather think Hagrid is going to go, but I don't know who else to finger.
Finn, might you be thinking of her quote about Sirius's death?
Yeah. Well I had re-written the death, re-written it and that was it. It was definitive. And the person was definitely dead. And I walked into the kitchen crying and Neil said to me, 'What on earth is wrong?' and I said, 'Well, I've just killed the person.' Neil doesn't know who the person is. But I said, 'I've just killed the person.' And he said, 'Well, don't do it then.' I thought, 'a doctor' you know ... and I said 'Well it just doesn't work like that. You are writing children's books, you need to be a ruthless killer.'
End quote.
Mills.
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Steve Newton - Jan 11, 2006 7:18 am (#684 of 1297)
Librarian
The only character whose death about which "millions of children will weep or rejoice" is our beloved former Potions professor, Severus Snape. About the only character for whom there are large numbers of people hating and loving.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jan 11, 2006 8:53 am (#685 of 1297)
I thought Snape initially too,Steve.Another could possibly be Draco since many connect him with Tom Felton.Good girls love the bad boys thingy.
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Diagon Nilly - Jan 11, 2006 10:18 am (#686 of 1297)
I was thinking Draco too, only 'cause she just started writing and a Snape death too early in the book would be entirely too unsatisfying. However, a Draco death might fuel things along nicely (as sad as it would be - but honestly, he hadn't had all that much to do up to the sixth book 'cept be a little prat).
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jan 12, 2006 2:14 am (#687 of 1297)
The quote from Jo has a similar ring to the one to do with Sirius prior to OoP coming out. Or is that my imagination?
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Finn BV - Jan 12, 2006 3:03 pm (#688 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Thanks, Mills. I was thinking of the Sirius quote. And of course I didn't read the context prior to posting, so that helps. Still, she hasn't started to write the seventh book yet, has she? Why would she be writing a terribly sad death so early on, assuming she'll start from the beginning. The "recently" is confusing…
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K Michaelis - Jan 12, 2006 4:18 pm (#689 of 1297)
Still, she hasn't started to write the seventh book yet, has she?
Well, the interview did say that she had the final chapter of the last book already written and locked away in her safe! So, I guess she's not writing it in order. This is actually pretty common practice among most of my author friends. They brainstorm, map out scenes, and plan. Then they write individual scenes, but not necessarily in order.
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Finn BV - Jan 13, 2006 3:47 pm (#690 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Yes, yes, I knew she had written the final chapter, she said that years ago. But she definitely said that she'd start writing Book 7 – the rest of the book – in 2006. 13 days into 2006, do you think she's written a tragic death already? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure this is pertaining to Dumbledore's death,.
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Soul Search - Jan 13, 2006 4:49 pm (#691 of 1297)
I don't see why any more characters we know and love have to die. Even adult books don't kill off all the heros.
Here's where I am coming from.
Harry Potter would be a perfect birthday gift for a 11 year old grandkid. But, if the story gets any darker, I would hesitate.
While JKR seems to be adjusting the books for the age of original 11 year olds that read Sorcerers Stone, new readers will not take that long to read them.
I am not sure even I want to read about any more heros dying.
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Diagon Nilly - Jan 13, 2006 7:08 pm (#692 of 1297)
It's JKR's prerogative to write deaths into her stories. Dying is a fact of life, and I think she wants children to realize that. Besides, after reading that interview, I think having her characters deal with death provides her with some therapy for her own personal losses.
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haymoni - Jan 13, 2006 7:29 pm (#693 of 1297)
I don't think JKR is writing these books for anyone but herself.
She has a story in her head about a boy.
He's her boy - she takes him on a journey that lasts 7 years and, if we want, we can ride along.
Buy SS/PS for the 11 year old, buy COS for the 12 year old, buy POA for the 13 year old - that's my plan with my daughter anyway. She's 5 now - She'll know how it all ends up by the time she is 11. I can't wait to relive what's in these books with her, like I did with Ungrateful Son.
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HungarianHorntail11 - Jan 13, 2006 7:59 pm (#694 of 1297)
The heart sees deeper than the eye.
LOL haymoni!
For what it's worth, I think Harry will almost die but survive, as he did in SS.
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Regan of Gong - Jan 16, 2006 4:51 am (#695 of 1297)
Self declared doctor of everything.
I remember lying on the lounge for 20 minutes after I read that passage about Dumbledore's death, just lying there and thinking. My mum came in, and she wanted me to tell her who died. I think she was trying to make me feel better. I refused, in the hope that one day she'll decide to read the books instead of settling for the movies.
But these aren't childrens books anymore, and JKR can do what she wants with them. I doubt she'll have many fans left if she kills everyone, but like Haymoni said, they're hers, and we can jump on for the ride if we want. I do think that she's writing these books for more than herself, but I suppose that's beside the point, as she's planned these books for longer than I've been on this earth, and she isn't going to change them no matter how much we whine about how we love characters etc. She loves these characters herself, but she needs to write the deaths in to move the story along. HBP wouldn't have been like it was if Sirius was still alive, and she planned for Sirius to die.
Sorry about the muddled thoughts- Regan
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kingdolohov - Jan 16, 2006 6:54 pm (#696 of 1297)
I don't think the "weep or rejoice" refers to a particular character, but to characters in general. That part wasn't said by JKR, it was written by the author of the article. If it's someone good who dies, people will be sad. If it's someone bad, then readers will be happy.
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cindysuewho45 - Jan 25, 2006 7:23 am (#697 of 1297)
Hi all, Well I feel that she talking about someone. Like you were saying, in Quick Quotes Quill / 9 or 10 Jan. 2006 / News & Recent Additions / Feb. issue of Tatler. Is where JKR was talking about this. In the seventh and final Harry Potter book she said that there will be deaths of both goodies and baddies. Then she said she was talking to her husband, the other day, after she had just written the death of one particular character. " He shuddered. 'Oh, don't do that, 'he said to me, but of course I did. " And with one swirl of her pen, millions of children will weep or rejoice. "this year she will finsh writing the Harry Potter series. The final chapter sits, already written...etc... So I'm thinking that she said millions will rejoice or weep! I'm thinking Snape,there are about 50/50 out there that would do just that.
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haymoni - Jan 25, 2006 7:58 am (#698 of 1297)
Or Draco.
Actually though, I think that is the reporter's comment, not anything Jo told them - the part about the kids.
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Honour - Jan 25, 2006 2:50 pm (#699 of 1297)
Or Harry, or Ron, or Hermione or Neville ...
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frogface - Jan 26, 2006 5:02 am (#700 of 1297)
I think I'm most worried for Hagrid for some reason. I think it would be just too cruel to tear the trio apart, but due to certain Alchemy clues in reference to names in the books, which I discovered through a wonderful editorial, I think our favourite game keeper will give his life for Harry. It certainly would be very upsetting for a lot of us.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think if he doesn't die people will just be wondering how far in he'll die in Book 7.
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Steve Newton - Jul 10, 2005 10:43 am (#652 of 1297)
Librarian
I didn't do a count of which book people thought the deaths would occur in. Most didn't indicate, anyway.
Just to be clear I also only counted one death even if the same person posted the same death many times. One person made a sort of cottage industry out of killing Ron.
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Hollywand - Jul 10, 2005 11:56 am (#653 of 1297)
Gryffindor
Steve, don't you think we will get historical deaths as well? We are sure to get the deaths of Lily and James and other members of the Order as Harry learns about his personal history.
Sibyll tells me that predicting the past is a lot easier.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 10, 2005 3:38 pm (#654 of 1297)
Hollywand, this quotation regarding the Prewetts I found on J.K. Rowling's website
Gideon and Fabian Prewett were Molly Weasley’s brothers Yes, they were, but their history is not particularly significant in terms of the overall plot, except in so far as their deaths obviously explain and excuse some of Mrs. Weasley’s fears and her arguably over-protective stance with regard to Harry.
This quotation tends to make me think that the readers will not learn all that much about the members order during the first war unless J.K. Rowling produces an HP Encyclopedia.
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Steve Newton - Jul 10, 2005 3:43 pm (#655 of 1297)
Librarian
Hollywand, I think that in HBP we could see any death except Harry. At some point I think that we are going to visit Godric's Hollow on the fatal night. I don't know if it will be in HBP or not. I would not be surprised if we visited it more than once on the fatal night.
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KTO - Jul 11, 2005 1:09 pm (#656 of 1297)
in terms of a dementor killing Lord V. he is already soul-less, so in my opinion no dementors kiss for him, I am sticking with my theory that LV dies as Tom ( I know very starwarsish, but I love it) KT
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Chemyst - Jul 14, 2005 4:53 pm (#657 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Thanks for doing a tally Steve. You must have had fairly stringent guidelines on determining when someone predicted a death, because I certainly meant for this student death from my post #53 to count –
"Dennis Creevey does seem to be tailor made to be a likely casualty. The little tyke is cute & innocent, he has a brother whose story can be used to amplify the impact, and he is close-but-not-too-close to Harry. 'Sounds like a goner to me."
Anyway, thanks for doing the tally. It was interesting.
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Steve Newton - Jul 14, 2005 6:52 pm (#658 of 1297)
Librarian
Chemyst, I would not have counted this but I do see what you mean. If I had taken anything but clear statements I would never have been done.
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Kip Carter - Aug 2, 2005 11:29 am (#659 of 1297)
co-Host with Steve on the Lexicon Forum, but he has the final say as the Owner!
This thread was closed down during the sixteen day period surrounding the release of Book Six. It is now opened for posts.
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David Breeze - Aug 3, 2005 5:26 am (#660 of 1297)
Edited by Aug 3, 2005 5:32 am
1) A death in the Weasley family is guaranteed I feel. For such a large family, It would be remarkable if they all survived.
2) Fenrir Greyback will be killed by Peter
3) Peter will die because...he...well...he's got to really...
4) Voldemort will die because he is the bad guy
5) Snape will die heroically after revealing he has been loyal to the order the whole time. There would be too many difficult scenarios if he was to live.
6) Elphias Dodge or Hestia Jones will die because some members of the order HAVE to die and they are the randomised members whoose death would not affect the main storyline too much.
7) Macnair will provide a nice meal for Buckbeak
This is supposedly a childrens series, so I daubt that there will be any more deaths than I have listed. Therefore, sadly, most of the Death Eaters will survive. However, Azkaban will certainly be a lot less empty cells.
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Weeny Owl - Aug 3, 2005 8:47 am (#661 of 1297)
Way back on June 20, 2004, I wrote this: There are plenty of Ministry employees who might die, and I only hope Amelia Bones isn't one of them.
(Sniff, sob) I really didn't want Amelia to die. I wanted her to be the next Minister.
More Ministry employees will die, but I'm sure Umbridge and Percy will survive and continue being just what they've always been.
I can see more Hogwarts students dying. If their family members can be killed, so can they.
I thought for ages that Lupin would die since he was the last true Marauder, but I'm more hopeful now that he and Tonks are together.
I still think one of the Weasleys will die, but it won't be Ron or Ginny, and with Bill already having an affliction, I think he and Fleur will survive.
One of the professors will probably die. It could be one of the ones we rarely see such as Sinistra or Vector.
With Dumbledore gone, I can see the Ministry taking a "no prisoners" stance and allowing Aurors to kill rather than capture. I think quite a few Death Eaters will die.
I want Snape to live, but his chances are highly unlikely now.
I think one of the Malfoys will die, but at the hands of the Death Eaters, and that will make the two remaining Malfoys switch sides, even if they still hold their same beliefs about blood.
Voldemort will die, and I feel Harry will survive.
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Finn BV - Aug 3, 2005 9:35 am (#662 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I still think one of the Weasleys will die, but it won't be Ron or Ginny, and with Bill already having an affliction, I think he and Fleur will survive. --Weeny Owl
I always felt that Charlie had the smallest part in all the books, and it wouldn't mean much (to the reader, at least) if he had to go. I thought for a fleeting second Fred and George would be the next to go, while I was reading Chapter 6 (U-No-Poo was the kicker in this thought). Their play at Voldemort could make them very vulnerable – we know the DEs don't avoid Diagon Alley. However, I think they're going to make it through to the end.
One of the professors will probably die. It could be one of the ones we rarely see such as Sinistra or Vector.
In addition one that we know fairly well – like Sprout, for instance – is a large target for the reason that we it will have some impact but not as big as Dumbledore's death.
Voldemort will die, and I feel Harry will survive.
With you on that one.
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Neville Longbottom - Aug 4, 2005 8:48 am (#663 of 1297)
Voldemort will die, as will Horcrux-Nagini. Peter will meet his maker as well but not after he somehow helped Harry), same for Bellatrix. I think the Malfoys have a chance to survive, you can't kill what they stand for. (Though I admit ferret boy did show some hints for redemption, which I never expected). Snape will die as well, I think, but heroically, and we'll learn that he was on Dumbledore's side all the time.
I fear Neville might die, but I really hope not. If Neville does not die, than Professor Sprout will, so that the post as Herbology teacher will be free for Neville. Percy might as well, in a redemption scene, saving Ron. Trelawney is in danger, and seeing that seer and propehts often died, I think she might as well.
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HungarianHorntail11 - Aug 11, 2005 11:23 am (#664 of 1297)
The heart sees deeper than the eye.
I think Narcissa might die, Big V will find out about the Unbreakable Vow and kill her, thus killing two birds with one stone (punishing Lucius and Draco); which will, in turn pit Draco against his father and land him against Big V.
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Madam Pince - Aug 11, 2005 12:37 pm (#665 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Why do you think that would pit Draco against Lucius? Because Lucius being a DE was what got Narcissa endangered in the first place? That could be interesting...
Dads really are getting a "short end of the stick" in JKR's world, that's for sure. The only really completely "good" one we've seen is Arthur, right? (Of the fully developed characters, I mean -- we don't know much about Mr. Granger or Frank Longbottom, though they seem to be OK.)
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HungarianHorntail11 - Aug 11, 2005 12:56 pm (#666 of 1297)
The heart sees deeper than the eye.
Draco's behavior in the bathroom is evident that he has been put into a situation he is unhappy about. This is due to his father's "slippery" behavior in Big V's eyes. Hence, Draco will mourn for his mother and resent his father for the situation which presented itself in the first place.
I'm not entirely convinced this will happen (Book 7 is getting longer and longer!), but Draco doesn't reflect his father's views, though he "parroted" them. Some animosity is bound to come out of this situation one way or another.
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kingdolohov - Aug 11, 2005 6:49 pm (#667 of 1297)
Death Eaters I believe will die, and at the hands of whom:
1. Bellatrix Lestrange at the hands of Neville 2. Antonin Dolohov at the hands of a Weasley (he killed Molly's brothers) 3. Fenrir Greyback at the silver hand of Peter Pettigrew (not really original, sorry)
I think the Death Eaters at the top will get killed.
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James Marcus - Aug 25, 2005 11:48 am (#668 of 1297)
Very interesting... someone mentioned (I think in MuggleNet) that in 4, 5, and 6, the one who dies is on the cover of the American version (Sirus is on the back of OOTP). So maybe when the cover is released, we'll have a good guess at it.
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KWeldon - Aug 26, 2005 10:14 am (#669 of 1297)
I actually thought the person on the back of OotP was Lupin, since he was often mentioned in the context of Tonks and Moody, but I guess it probably should be Sirius. Hmmmm...
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 26, 2005 12:21 pm (#670 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Hmm, Harry is also on the American cover of book six...
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Saralinda Again - Aug 26, 2005 2:26 pm (#671 of 1297)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
Harry doesn't count, TBE. Harry is on the cover of every book.
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Stephanie M. - Aug 27, 2005 6:04 pm (#672 of 1297)
Ooo I never thought that the person who dies is on the American cover!
But Quirrell isn't on the first cover... unless I'm missing him.
There is a unicorn though... And the unicorn dies...
But Quirrell wasn't an important death...
Goes off to look at all of the covers*
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Potter Ace - Sep 14, 2005 7:04 am (#673 of 1297)
Wasn't Hermoine (riding Buckbeak with Harry) on the cover of POA American version? I'm not finding a whole lot to go on in think that the Cover theory holds water.
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Mrs. Sirius - Sep 18, 2005 10:17 pm (#674 of 1297)
Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
On the back of OoTP, Lupin is included with the three people whose faces are shown. However, I think in the back ground, Sirius is shown in shadow.
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Finn BV - Sep 25, 2005 1:30 pm (#675 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I guess the GrandPré interview today shuts down this theory about the cover art. Certainly it doesn't sound like she has much interaction with JKR, and that she "reads through" the manuscripts to find scenes that would make good covers – not scenes with people who will die. She doesn't know the ending of the books. Another theory shot to pieces.
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Esther Rose - Sep 30, 2005 9:42 am (#676 of 1297)
Hmmm... Who will go?
Snape: The unbreakable vow does him in. Hagrid: Once someone says "It takes a lot ter do me in." What ever it takes is going to happen to them. Percy or Mrs. Weasley: A Weasley will die. The death of either one could reunify the family. Lucius Malfoy: Dies once he is out of Askaban. Fenir Greybeck: Makes too many enemies on both sides of the war.
The trio will all survive or all die.
I am not so sure Wormtail will go. The best justice for him is to send him to Askaban for life.
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Finn BV - Sep 30, 2005 2:37 pm (#677 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
The trio will all survive or all die.
Ooh… I like that. Haven't thought of it that way before. Sure hope it's the former!
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Maddest Dragon - Dec 18, 2005 3:40 am (#678 of 1297)
Edited by Kip Carter Dec 18, 2005 2:58 am
Dads really are getting a "short end of the stick" in JKR's world, that's for sure. The only really completely "good" one we've seen is Arthur, right?
Good point. I think it's notable that, with the exception of Arthur, none of the men who've been father figures to Harry (which Arthur is in only a minor way compared with Sirius, Dumbledore, and Lupin) have any children of their own as far as we know. And two of them are now dead. Does that mean Lupin's next? I hope not--but maybe so.
Really, I don't know who's going to die next, and I'm not even going to try to guess... but I've been convinced for some time that Neville won't survive the series. I think he has an important role to play in the final battle against Voldemort, and it will end with his death. We've already seen many hints that Neville could be a substitute for Harry: the prophecy that could have meant either of them; Harry's dream about Quidditch (I think in PoA, but I'm not sure). And Neville fought alongside Harry at the MoM, to where it was eventually the two of them against the Death Eaters. I think they'll fight side by side again, with Neville being the one to take a killing curse.
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Mrs Brisbee - Dec 18, 2005 8:16 am (#679 of 1297)
Hagrid's father was good. It was his mother who abandoned them. Cedric Diggory's father was a good man. Luna seems to be close to her father. James died trying to buy a few seconds for his wife and son to escape Voldemort. I could probably come up with more examples of good fathers with a little more time. Rowling is emphasizing the impact of good parents (and guardians) over the bad, but I'm not sure fathers are getting the short end of the stick. Perhaps it's just that there are so many more male characters developed so it is easier to come up with examples.
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Diagon Nilly - Jan 10, 2006 5:11 pm (#680 of 1297)
In her Tatler interview which came out today:
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JKR says: "She was talking to her husband, Neil, recently, after she had just written the death of one particular character. "He shuddered. 'Oh don't do that,' he said to me, but of course I did."
And with one swirl of her pen, millions of children will weep or rejoice."
Hmm... who could she be talking about?
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Finn BV - Jan 10, 2006 8:06 pm (#681 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Diagon Nilly, I think that's a reference to Dumbledore in HBP. The 'of course I did' would imply it has already happened. And I think I remember seeing the general lines of that quote before.
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Diagon Nilly - Jan 10, 2006 9:56 pm (#682 of 1297)
Ah yuck. I was hoping for new tidbits already. :::raspberries:::
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Amilia Smith - Jan 11, 2006 12:56 am (#683 of 1297)
Oh, I dunno. I think it is someone new. Or at least that the journalist thought she was talking about someone new. To add a bit of context to Diagon Nilly's quote:
In the seventh and final Harry Potter book, there will be deaths of both goodies and baddies.
She was talking to her husband, Neil, recently, after she had just written the death of one particular character. "He shuddered. 'Oh don't do that,' he said to me, but of course I did."
And with one swirl of her pen, millions of children will weep or rejoice. Countless Harry Potter websites try to predict what will happen in the final book. "Neil is the only person I can talk to about what happens because he instantly forgets," she says, laughing.
End quote.
So I'm somewhat worried about deaths. Plural. Of multiple "goodies." I rather think Hagrid is going to go, but I don't know who else to finger.
Finn, might you be thinking of her quote about Sirius's death?
Yeah. Well I had re-written the death, re-written it and that was it. It was definitive. And the person was definitely dead. And I walked into the kitchen crying and Neil said to me, 'What on earth is wrong?' and I said, 'Well, I've just killed the person.' Neil doesn't know who the person is. But I said, 'I've just killed the person.' And he said, 'Well, don't do it then.' I thought, 'a doctor' you know ... and I said 'Well it just doesn't work like that. You are writing children's books, you need to be a ruthless killer.'
End quote.
Mills.
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Steve Newton - Jan 11, 2006 7:18 am (#684 of 1297)
Librarian
The only character whose death about which "millions of children will weep or rejoice" is our beloved former Potions professor, Severus Snape. About the only character for whom there are large numbers of people hating and loving.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jan 11, 2006 8:53 am (#685 of 1297)
I thought Snape initially too,Steve.Another could possibly be Draco since many connect him with Tom Felton.Good girls love the bad boys thingy.
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Diagon Nilly - Jan 11, 2006 10:18 am (#686 of 1297)
I was thinking Draco too, only 'cause she just started writing and a Snape death too early in the book would be entirely too unsatisfying. However, a Draco death might fuel things along nicely (as sad as it would be - but honestly, he hadn't had all that much to do up to the sixth book 'cept be a little prat).
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jan 12, 2006 2:14 am (#687 of 1297)
The quote from Jo has a similar ring to the one to do with Sirius prior to OoP coming out. Or is that my imagination?
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Finn BV - Jan 12, 2006 3:03 pm (#688 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Thanks, Mills. I was thinking of the Sirius quote. And of course I didn't read the context prior to posting, so that helps. Still, she hasn't started to write the seventh book yet, has she? Why would she be writing a terribly sad death so early on, assuming she'll start from the beginning. The "recently" is confusing…
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K Michaelis - Jan 12, 2006 4:18 pm (#689 of 1297)
Still, she hasn't started to write the seventh book yet, has she?
Well, the interview did say that she had the final chapter of the last book already written and locked away in her safe! So, I guess she's not writing it in order. This is actually pretty common practice among most of my author friends. They brainstorm, map out scenes, and plan. Then they write individual scenes, but not necessarily in order.
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Finn BV - Jan 13, 2006 3:47 pm (#690 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Yes, yes, I knew she had written the final chapter, she said that years ago. But she definitely said that she'd start writing Book 7 – the rest of the book – in 2006. 13 days into 2006, do you think she's written a tragic death already? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure this is pertaining to Dumbledore's death,.
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Soul Search - Jan 13, 2006 4:49 pm (#691 of 1297)
I don't see why any more characters we know and love have to die. Even adult books don't kill off all the heros.
Here's where I am coming from.
Harry Potter would be a perfect birthday gift for a 11 year old grandkid. But, if the story gets any darker, I would hesitate.
While JKR seems to be adjusting the books for the age of original 11 year olds that read Sorcerers Stone, new readers will not take that long to read them.
I am not sure even I want to read about any more heros dying.
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Diagon Nilly - Jan 13, 2006 7:08 pm (#692 of 1297)
It's JKR's prerogative to write deaths into her stories. Dying is a fact of life, and I think she wants children to realize that. Besides, after reading that interview, I think having her characters deal with death provides her with some therapy for her own personal losses.
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haymoni - Jan 13, 2006 7:29 pm (#693 of 1297)
I don't think JKR is writing these books for anyone but herself.
She has a story in her head about a boy.
He's her boy - she takes him on a journey that lasts 7 years and, if we want, we can ride along.
Buy SS/PS for the 11 year old, buy COS for the 12 year old, buy POA for the 13 year old - that's my plan with my daughter anyway. She's 5 now - She'll know how it all ends up by the time she is 11. I can't wait to relive what's in these books with her, like I did with Ungrateful Son.
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HungarianHorntail11 - Jan 13, 2006 7:59 pm (#694 of 1297)
The heart sees deeper than the eye.
LOL haymoni!
For what it's worth, I think Harry will almost die but survive, as he did in SS.
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Regan of Gong - Jan 16, 2006 4:51 am (#695 of 1297)
Self declared doctor of everything.
I remember lying on the lounge for 20 minutes after I read that passage about Dumbledore's death, just lying there and thinking. My mum came in, and she wanted me to tell her who died. I think she was trying to make me feel better. I refused, in the hope that one day she'll decide to read the books instead of settling for the movies.
But these aren't childrens books anymore, and JKR can do what she wants with them. I doubt she'll have many fans left if she kills everyone, but like Haymoni said, they're hers, and we can jump on for the ride if we want. I do think that she's writing these books for more than herself, but I suppose that's beside the point, as she's planned these books for longer than I've been on this earth, and she isn't going to change them no matter how much we whine about how we love characters etc. She loves these characters herself, but she needs to write the deaths in to move the story along. HBP wouldn't have been like it was if Sirius was still alive, and she planned for Sirius to die.
Sorry about the muddled thoughts- Regan
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kingdolohov - Jan 16, 2006 6:54 pm (#696 of 1297)
I don't think the "weep or rejoice" refers to a particular character, but to characters in general. That part wasn't said by JKR, it was written by the author of the article. If it's someone good who dies, people will be sad. If it's someone bad, then readers will be happy.
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cindysuewho45 - Jan 25, 2006 7:23 am (#697 of 1297)
Hi all, Well I feel that she talking about someone. Like you were saying, in Quick Quotes Quill / 9 or 10 Jan. 2006 / News & Recent Additions / Feb. issue of Tatler. Is where JKR was talking about this. In the seventh and final Harry Potter book she said that there will be deaths of both goodies and baddies. Then she said she was talking to her husband, the other day, after she had just written the death of one particular character. " He shuddered. 'Oh, don't do that, 'he said to me, but of course I did. " And with one swirl of her pen, millions of children will weep or rejoice. "this year she will finsh writing the Harry Potter series. The final chapter sits, already written...etc... So I'm thinking that she said millions will rejoice or weep! I'm thinking Snape,there are about 50/50 out there that would do just that.
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haymoni - Jan 25, 2006 7:58 am (#698 of 1297)
Or Draco.
Actually though, I think that is the reporter's comment, not anything Jo told them - the part about the kids.
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Honour - Jan 25, 2006 2:50 pm (#699 of 1297)
Or Harry, or Ron, or Hermione or Neville ...
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frogface - Jan 26, 2006 5:02 am (#700 of 1297)
I think I'm most worried for Hagrid for some reason. I think it would be just too cruel to tear the trio apart, but due to certain Alchemy clues in reference to names in the books, which I discovered through a wonderful editorial, I think our favourite game keeper will give his life for Harry. It certainly would be very upsetting for a lot of us.
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 701 to 750)
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cindysuewho45 - Jan 26, 2006 11:27 am (#701 of 1297)
Hi all, Well haymoni, I think your right about what the reporter said, "one swirl of her pen,millions of children will weep or rejoice". That part was the reporter not JKR. With this in mind then when JKR says that her husband shuddered and said Oh, don't do that.When she said that she had just written the death of one particular character. This could be someone like Ron, Hagrid etc..
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haymoni - Jan 26, 2006 11:33 am (#702 of 1297)
But we don't know if she was telling the story of how she killed Sirius or Dumbledore or if she was killing someone in Book 7.
No matter who it is, we'll feel strongly about it.
Look at our reaction to Madam Bones! She was in one chapter and mentioned briefly in another. But when I read that she died, I was actually sad.
I really need a life.
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Finn BV - Jan 26, 2006 4:15 pm (#703 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I really need a life. --haymoni
Welcome to the Forum, haymoni.
Well come on, no matter who dies, we'll be crying — it's the last book anyway. I'd be teary just for that, knowing that within the day I'll have finished reading the series. *is teary right now*
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Choices - Jan 26, 2006 7:33 pm (#704 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I agree Finn. I can't imagine life without a new HP book to look forward to.....(takes a Kleenex and passes box to Finn)
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Finn BV - Jan 26, 2006 8:17 pm (#705 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
*takes box, blows nose and tries to think of something useful to add to this thread*
Basically, anybody who isn't an adult DE right now, I'd cry for, like Draco. Of course, that is, if I were a cry-er. (?) In other words, I don't really cry in books, but if I did, I'd cry for any child (using the term loosely, since they'll all be of age), Order member, teacher, Ministry person, whoever. Even, like, Filch. LOL
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jan 26, 2006 11:22 pm (#706 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
I'm trying to squeeze out a tear for Umbridge..., it didn't work!
...toddles off giggling...
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Regan of Gong - Jan 29, 2006 3:17 am (#707 of 1297)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Of course, it's slightly consoling we'll have two more movies to go, but with how they've been so far...
*coughROBcough**
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virginiaelizabeth - Feb 2, 2006 10:21 pm (#708 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
jkr said in an interview that she killed sirius and dumbledore because its more dramatic if the main character goes into the problem alone. (or something along those lines...) this kind of worries me that she will kill ron, or hermione. i hope she doesn't
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Chemyst - Feb 3, 2006 6:31 am (#709 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
this kind of worries me that she will kill ron, or hermione. i hope she doesn't – virginiaelizabeth
I'm not overly concerned about those deaths. After the deaths of his parents, Sirius, and (likely) Dumbledore, Harry won't need any more "reasons" to buck up his determination. Additionally, we have two precedents, one in PS/SS and one in GF where Harry "goes into the problem" without his best friends; he faced Quirrel alone, and during the second task, neither Ron nor Hermione could help since both needed rescuing. I think it's most likely they will be similarly unavailable when Voldemort and Harry settle things once and for all.
PS - a quote copied and pasted from the Philosophy of the Forum, written by Steve: This Forum also expects its members to use proper English (that includes proper capitalization, ... )
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Choices - Feb 3, 2006 11:39 am (#710 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Thanks for your PS Chemyst. We all need a reminder from time to time that this forum has many members whose first language is not English and we must all try to be grammatically correct and capitalize where appropriate. Many are trying to improve their English and we must all try to set good examples, not only for them, but for our own improvement. **Gosh, I hope I made no errors in that!** LOL
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virginiaelizabeth - Feb 3, 2006 9:01 pm (#711 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
Opps sorry about that. I was in a rush to post and forgot the rules.
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Die Zimtzicke - Feb 10, 2006 6:36 pm (#712 of 1297)
I have always thought that Harry might have to die to defeat Voldemort. I think the two are connected too closely for one to live and one to die. If Harry does something like go through the veil, and wind up back with Dumbledore, Sirius and his parents, having the next great adventure, it wouldn't have to be a disaster. But I'm not sure about that. He might live.
If Jo has just started writing book seven, and has written a death, I think the logical places for it are either at the Dursleys, when the protection ends on Harry's birthday, or at the wedding of Bill and Fleur, which just SCREAMS "target!" to me.
If someone else has to die for Harry to have the resolve to win, I think it might be Ginny or Molly. There are so many Weasleys all deeply involved in the war, I think they aren't all going to make it.
Ginny would cause the most angst, in my opinion, and millions would definitely weep or rejoice for that. I do think Snape is a goner, though, but I can't decide when he will go down. Hagrid is another possibility. With Dumbledore gone, he's lost his anchor.
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castle - Feb 14, 2006 12:17 pm (#713 of 1297)
Hi,What do you think about this for a theory/prediction,-wait for it-okay,I reckon that in book 7 Severus Snape will be killed by Voldemort because of numerous chapters in the Half Blood Prince where Dumbledor showed Harry the memory or the young Tom Riddle in the orphanage and tells him that Voldemort has never had/have or want any friend and that he also treats his followerers or so called "Friends" with as much mercy as he does his enemies final point Dumbledore told Harry that Voldemort hated having anything the same as anybody else like the name Tom and he wanted to be unique. Also because they have somethings in common like the nicknames Tom Riddle = Lord Voldemort and Snape + Half Blood Prince also they are both half-bloods Witch mother Muggle father, they both grew up as loners and deeply involved with the dark arts and they both hate Harry Potter
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haymoni - Feb 14, 2006 2:11 pm (#714 of 1297)
I think Snape will be killed, but I think that he will be killed saving Harry.
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virginiaelizabeth - Feb 19, 2006 10:39 pm (#715 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
Hmmmm.. thats a pretty interesting thought haymoni. JKR said that the third movie gave away tons of hints about the future plot of Harry Potter and one of the "questionable" scenes is the one where Snape stands between the trio and Lupin as he is transforming. Snape spreads out his arms in a very protecting manner and he does this even though he is extremely mad at the trio. I wonder if this has anything to do with Snape saving Harry in the last book....
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haymoni - Feb 20, 2006 11:07 am (#716 of 1297)
I certainly hope so.
It would be nice if ONE of my theories proved to be correct!!!
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colbow - Feb 27, 2006 11:23 am (#717 of 1297)
haymoni, I think you going to hit a bulleye with that theory, because if Snape was truly on Voldie side then he could have easy popped off Harry and left Hogwarts to join up with Voldie ,in the last two books. So far all the deaths have been people close to Harry, wonder if the "bad" side or those percived to be bad are going to take a hit? Snape I feel will be one of them.
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MichaelmasGal - Mar 6, 2006 1:55 pm (#718 of 1297)
I think Ron will die. One of the main three it seems almost needs to. It won't be Harry and JKR likes Hermione too much.
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colbow - Mar 10, 2006 11:54 am (#719 of 1297)
Yes but how many people that are close to Harry have to die? Will he ever be able to have those who truely love him survive? Time for the bad side to take a hit....
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virginiaelizabeth - Mar 13, 2006 3:37 pm (#720 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
I really don't think JKR would kill one of trio. I have to agree with you colbow, it is time for the bad guys to take a hit. The main theme throughout all the books is good verses evil, and for the most part( few exeptions) good has always prevailed over evil. I think it would be extremely inconsistent and un-characteristic of JKR to go against the central theme of her story at the very end by switching it around. This is mainly why I believe that Harry will survive, and conquer LV.
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Choices - Mar 13, 2006 7:26 pm (#721 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Who will die in book 7.....my money is on Voldemort. :-) Go Harry!!
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Snuffles - Mar 14, 2006 4:19 am (#722 of 1297)
Olivia
Lol Choices, I really hope you are right.
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TheSaint - Mar 14, 2006 5:16 am (#723 of 1297)
Choices, There are things worse than death...like squib janitor in a school full of magical kids!!!
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Choices - Mar 14, 2006 11:53 am (#724 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Yep, Filch may suffer, but he gives as good as he gits. LOL
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geauxtigers - Mar 21, 2006 3:57 pm (#725 of 1297)
Yum!
I think that Voldemort will die. I'm hoping that the trio will survive, I don't think she would kill them, but I can see her killing Harry as a symbolic heroic death or something. But obviously I want everyone but Voldemort to die. Fairy tale endings I think I prefere those to evil winning-endings!
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Amilia Smith - Mar 24, 2006 1:13 am (#726 of 1297)
But obviously I want everyone but Voldemort to die.
Erm, surely you meant "to live"?
Mills.
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geauxtigers - Mar 24, 2006 2:43 pm (#727 of 1297)
Yum!
Oops Sorry you're right! Thats what I get for not reading it over! Yes I hope everyone lives but Voldemort!
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Deb Zawacki - Mar 28, 2006 2:13 pm (#728 of 1297)
Will Narcissa be willing to die to protect her son in the same way that Lily did to protect Harry?
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Deb Zawacki - Mar 28, 2006 2:18 pm (#729 of 1297)
Yeah, but Ginny's real name name is a derivation of Guinavere (with her daddy being Arthur...and Harry her Lancelot) What happened to Guinny @ Camelot? Did she die?)
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Deb Zawacki - Mar 28, 2006 2:28 pm (#730 of 1297)
To be honest, if Draco does die it would likely be in some painful way--and he'd have a deathbed message for Harry to carry on and kill Voldemort-- and we would be filled with tears that Draco would have to come to the right way only as he faced his final breaths. I can see Draco telling Harry that he actually admired him and apologizing and then dying.
I don't know if Snape will die but I think he will turn out to be the one at his side going into battle. I thinK that Voldemort will be prepared to kill Snape and Harry will actually save Snape because he will see Snape "though his mother's eyes" and becasue in the end love has to be the most opowerful magic and has to win.
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frogface - Mar 29, 2006 2:22 am (#731 of 1297)
Deb, you can edit your posts if you think of something else to say, rather than posting three times in a row, which takes away from your 10 post a day limit. There is a time limit but I forget how long.
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dizzy lizzy - Mar 29, 2006 3:34 am (#732 of 1297)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
The time limit is 30 minutes to change/edit your post. Its a good way around your 10 post per day limit.
Lizzy
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Finn BV - Mar 29, 2006 8:43 am (#733 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Deb, also, the "Reply" button alongside each post is a little pointless if you ask me, because your message doesn't indicate which message you're replying to. So, if you feel some way about a certain post, copy the important text, cite which post # you're getting it from, and put all your points into one post. That way, you can post more often!
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Magic Words - Apr 5, 2006 3:36 pm (#734 of 1297)
I'm afraid Rubeus Hagrid is a goner. The alchemic symbolism in the last two books was just too perfect. (For those who haven't come across this yet, the final three stages in the alchemic process are the Black, White, and Red stages, and so far the major deaths - Sirius and Dumbledore - have names meaning Black and White.)
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Steve Newton - Apr 5, 2006 3:40 pm (#735 of 1297)
Librarian
Magic, Rufus also means red. I'm guessing that Rosmerta might also be red. But, you are right, things don't look good for the big guy.
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Magic Words - Apr 5, 2006 6:35 pm (#736 of 1297)
I did consider Scrimgeour, I just don't think he's an important enough character. I'm also remembering the way the transitions go: Dumbledore saved Harry after Sirius's death and took him back to Hogwarts, and after Dumbledore's death Harry chases Snape out to Hagrid's hut and it's Buckbeak (Hagrid's pet) who chases Snape off.
I remember seeing a definition for Rosmerta, can't remember what it was... I think it was on one of the scrapbook pieces hidden on JKR's website.
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Joanne R. Reid - Apr 25, 2006 11:16 am (#737 of 1297)
Hi,
The demise of Dumbledore affected me. I grieved ... for a character in a book! It has taken me this long to begin reengaging this topic.
I have long thought and advocated that the Harry Potter series is one more in the great stories of humankind. Like all these great stories it is one of Good vs. Evil. That is, it is a morality play.
Within this context, it is critical for Good to triumph over Evil. Good must conquer, vanquish and destroy Evil. However, the manner in which this is accomplished may not be in such a way that Good succeeds by useing the artifices of Evil to accomplish its purpose. For if it does, then Good becomes the very Evil that it had been trying to destroy.
Further, it accomplishes nothing if Good is destroyed in the process of conquering Evil. For then, what is the difference? Why should one prefer the Good to the Evil if, in the end, there is no difference in outcomes?
Thus, I have argued, Harry will live while Voldemort dies.
However, I have come to distrust JKR. Because of this, I will not rush out, as I have in the past, wand in hand to stand in line, eagerly awaiting my copy of the seventh and final book. Instead, I will wait, biding my time until I am sure that she has not killed off dear Harry, Hermione, Ron or Ginny. If I find that my young heroes have survived, then and only then will I purchase my copy. Then and only then will I purchase the many copies I routinely used to buy for all the children amongst my family and friends.
And, should I find that JKR has forsaken my trust in her as an author worthy of writing works of fiction for children, then I will not purchase this the last book in the series. I will take out the six well-worn books in my possession and throw them in the trash, so that my grandchildren will not need to contend with their violent images and JKR's disturbing world-view.
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Magic Words - Apr 25, 2006 12:04 pm (#738 of 1297)
Joanne, I agree with most of what you're saying. Good has to conquer evil - no question about it. And good has to come out ahead, not become evil or be destroyed in the process of defeating it.
Where I respectfully disagree is in saying that for this to occur, Harry must live while Voldemort dies. Don't get me wrong, I think it's most likely that Harry and his friends will live, and it's certainly what I'm hoping for. And Voldemort has to die or be defeated in some other equally permanent way (since we have Dumbledore's assurance that there are things worse than death). But Harry does not embody the Good side to the same extent that Voldemort does the Evil side. Harry is Good, of course, but so are Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Neville, Professor McGonagall.... while the good guys in the series do often take cues from a leader, such as Dumbledore or Harry, they are also capable of carrying on without one. Not so the Death Eaters. Although some Death Eaters managed to escape justice after Voldemort's first downfall (JKR has not said that evil is not a fact of life today, because that would be untrue) we saw the direct threat they had posed to society disappear overnight. Voldemort's final defeat, while not eliminating all evil from the world, will again remove the threat of his evil goals. If Harry dies, on the other hand, the goals he championed will still flourish in the lives of his friends, allies, and I will venture to say society as a whole (since the entire Wizarding World views him as something of a savior).
Furthermore, I think it would be a mistake to equate death with defeat. For Voldemort, this is most certainly the case, since we have heard him claim that "there is nothing worse than death" (OotP). But for the Good side, not only is death merely "the next great adventure" (Dumbledore, PS/SS), Sirius tells us straight out that "there are things worth dying for" (OotP). I have complete faith in JKR's ability to write a victory in spite of Harry's death, if she so chooses.
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The One - Apr 25, 2006 12:56 pm (#739 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
I agree with Magic Words.
I also want to say that I think the later books are written for the older children, those who are old enough to understand concepts like sacrifice and victory at a high cost. The 7th book mat not be suitable for 10 year olds, even in PS was so.
When that is said, I expect the trio to survive, and hope they will survive.
But there are several endings possible.
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Die Zimtzicke - Apr 25, 2006 6:42 pm (#740 of 1297)
If Jo has to kill Harry, and does it in a way that makes sense, I will read it. I will even buy HbP to go with the last book. (I didn't buy it so far because I absolutely abhored it when I got it out of the library.) If I think the series ends in a way that touches me, hoever, I'll buy both of the last books.
Everyone is assuming if Harry dies, it's going to be badly done. That's not a fair assumption, in my opinion to make. Wait and see if it happens, yes, but also wait and see how it happens and why, if it does. Everyone dies. It's how you live the life you are given that matters.
As far as the books being kids books, they opened with a double murder and an abused child and got darker. We can't expect the pattern to suddenly change in the end and be completely sweetness and light. There's going to be more loss, because it's a war, and you have losses in wars, but the losses are justified by the greater good that comes from the war's end.
Jo's books are classified as children's books, and she accepts that NOW, but she never thought of herself as a children's author at first. In the Movie Magic magazine that came out in May, 2004 she was still saying she found it interesting that she was considered a children's author, because she had never seen herself as one. So the idea that this or that shouldn't happen bcause it's a children's book makes no sense to me.
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Thom Matheson - Apr 25, 2006 8:58 pm (#741 of 1297)
Jo, as an avid reader of any kind, I mark the quality of an author by their ability to transform me into their world and most importantly make me believe that I am actually there. The same with a good movie. You are obviously quite moved by the books as a piece of litrature. As am I. JKR's ability to take a fiction story and get me to cry, cheer, get made, etc. is her mark of great ability.
In this case, I would bet the farm that good will win out. Whether all of our favorite characters will survive the final battle, is another matter. Trying to guess which, if any, of the kids will die is what makes this a great Forum. We all have ideas and thoughts. I can only tell you that DD's passing was my biggest blow yet, but after long reflection it made sense to the story. Right from the beginning it was made clear to us that "Harry is the one that has to go on". Not Ron, not Hermione. Well you remember the line at the chess board. Go buy the books. As a piece of litrature, this series has evoked more emotion, in all directions, then any author I can remember in over 45 years of reading. I cannot remember anyone living in my lifetime that has accomplished more. Most of the really greats were written long before we were around and we are lucky enough to be witnesses to this. How cool is that.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Apr 26, 2006 5:49 am (#742 of 1297)
Will Harry survive or will he die? Does it make it a bad book if Harry dies? Does this mean that while evil has been defeated it is a hollow victory if Harry or others die? Of course not. How many myths have the hero dying to vanquish evil? If we were to take the attitude of Harry dying would be a triumph of evil we should then go an discard everything from the Gospel to Greek myths and beyond.
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cindysuewho45 - Apr 26, 2006 12:01 pm (#743 of 1297)
Hi all, I was just reading in QQQ about JKR's Mom, and how and when she died. JKR was talking about how she felt about it. So I was thinking that of everyone in the books, Molly is who we would look at as Mom. So I could see Molly being killed off and then how all the Weasley's would feel about it and how it would play out in the book.
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haymoni - Apr 26, 2006 12:55 pm (#744 of 1297)
I don't think JKR would kill Molly - it would be like Harry losing his mom all over again.
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Saracene - Apr 29, 2006 10:11 pm (#745 of 1297)
The main reason why I think Harry will not die fighting Voldemort is the whole coming-of-age storyline. I just don't see the point of writing Harry grow up, mature, learn life lessons, etc. etc., only to kill him off at the tender age of seventeen at the end. What was that growing-up stuff for, then?
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frogface - May 1, 2006 6:22 am (#746 of 1297)
Because that is life Saracene. People develop and grow, no matter at what point in their life they are going to die. If Harry died but had been written unrealistically as a character who remained pretty much the same person in six years, I for one wouldn't feel much emotional investment in him, and his death would be indifferent to me. Because he would just be a character in a book.
But Harry is more than that, he is a realistic person in a fantasy world. A world which is more fantastic and crazy than our own, but yet mirror's our world in thousands of ways. In real life people (sometimes young people) do die in the fight for what they believe is right. Where would we be now if all those men, young and old, hadn't gone off to fight and subsequently given their lives in the 2nd World War to apose something they saw as evil? I believe in the power of sacrifice, and I believe in JKR. If she kills off Harry, then I'll still love these books for showing me Harry, Hermione, Ron, Ginny, Neville and all the other characters grow. I'll still love them for helping me grow myself. And I'll admire them for showing that life isn't always pretty, and it isn't fair. That isn't to say I won't be happy if Harry lives! But if he dies, I'll grieve, but I'll accept it.
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Esther Rose - May 1, 2006 7:04 am (#747 of 1297)
I think only half of Harry will die. I don't know how this would be done though.
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Madame Pomfrey - May 2, 2006 7:08 am (#748 of 1297)
Didn't JKR say she wouldn't be writing any more Potter books? She said that book 7 should answer all questions.If Harry survives I don't see how all our questions could be answered.I mean,we are going to want to know if he becomes an Auror,marries Ginny etc.and we are going to want that story line,right? My fear is that the only way I see all questions answered is if Harry dies because the story will end there.Gee,I hope not.
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TheSaint - May 2, 2006 7:09 am (#749 of 1297)
Jo has already stated..the last chapter tells what becomes of the survivors.
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Madame Pomfrey - May 2, 2006 7:15 am (#750 of 1297)
Ooh,I must have missed that. I hope Harry is one of the survivors.I think I'll still want more to the story if he lives though.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Hi all, Well haymoni, I think your right about what the reporter said, "one swirl of her pen,millions of children will weep or rejoice". That part was the reporter not JKR. With this in mind then when JKR says that her husband shuddered and said Oh, don't do that.When she said that she had just written the death of one particular character. This could be someone like Ron, Hagrid etc..
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haymoni - Jan 26, 2006 11:33 am (#702 of 1297)
But we don't know if she was telling the story of how she killed Sirius or Dumbledore or if she was killing someone in Book 7.
No matter who it is, we'll feel strongly about it.
Look at our reaction to Madam Bones! She was in one chapter and mentioned briefly in another. But when I read that she died, I was actually sad.
I really need a life.
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Finn BV - Jan 26, 2006 4:15 pm (#703 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I really need a life. --haymoni
Welcome to the Forum, haymoni.
Well come on, no matter who dies, we'll be crying — it's the last book anyway. I'd be teary just for that, knowing that within the day I'll have finished reading the series. *is teary right now*
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Choices - Jan 26, 2006 7:33 pm (#704 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I agree Finn. I can't imagine life without a new HP book to look forward to.....(takes a Kleenex and passes box to Finn)
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Finn BV - Jan 26, 2006 8:17 pm (#705 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
*takes box, blows nose and tries to think of something useful to add to this thread*
Basically, anybody who isn't an adult DE right now, I'd cry for, like Draco. Of course, that is, if I were a cry-er. (?) In other words, I don't really cry in books, but if I did, I'd cry for any child (using the term loosely, since they'll all be of age), Order member, teacher, Ministry person, whoever. Even, like, Filch. LOL
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jan 26, 2006 11:22 pm (#706 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
I'm trying to squeeze out a tear for Umbridge..., it didn't work!
...toddles off giggling...
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Regan of Gong - Jan 29, 2006 3:17 am (#707 of 1297)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Of course, it's slightly consoling we'll have two more movies to go, but with how they've been so far...
*coughROBcough**
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virginiaelizabeth - Feb 2, 2006 10:21 pm (#708 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
jkr said in an interview that she killed sirius and dumbledore because its more dramatic if the main character goes into the problem alone. (or something along those lines...) this kind of worries me that she will kill ron, or hermione. i hope she doesn't
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Chemyst - Feb 3, 2006 6:31 am (#709 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
this kind of worries me that she will kill ron, or hermione. i hope she doesn't – virginiaelizabeth
I'm not overly concerned about those deaths. After the deaths of his parents, Sirius, and (likely) Dumbledore, Harry won't need any more "reasons" to buck up his determination. Additionally, we have two precedents, one in PS/SS and one in GF where Harry "goes into the problem" without his best friends; he faced Quirrel alone, and during the second task, neither Ron nor Hermione could help since both needed rescuing. I think it's most likely they will be similarly unavailable when Voldemort and Harry settle things once and for all.
PS - a quote copied and pasted from the Philosophy of the Forum, written by Steve: This Forum also expects its members to use proper English (that includes proper capitalization, ... )
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Choices - Feb 3, 2006 11:39 am (#710 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Thanks for your PS Chemyst. We all need a reminder from time to time that this forum has many members whose first language is not English and we must all try to be grammatically correct and capitalize where appropriate. Many are trying to improve their English and we must all try to set good examples, not only for them, but for our own improvement. **Gosh, I hope I made no errors in that!** LOL
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virginiaelizabeth - Feb 3, 2006 9:01 pm (#711 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
Opps sorry about that. I was in a rush to post and forgot the rules.
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Die Zimtzicke - Feb 10, 2006 6:36 pm (#712 of 1297)
I have always thought that Harry might have to die to defeat Voldemort. I think the two are connected too closely for one to live and one to die. If Harry does something like go through the veil, and wind up back with Dumbledore, Sirius and his parents, having the next great adventure, it wouldn't have to be a disaster. But I'm not sure about that. He might live.
If Jo has just started writing book seven, and has written a death, I think the logical places for it are either at the Dursleys, when the protection ends on Harry's birthday, or at the wedding of Bill and Fleur, which just SCREAMS "target!" to me.
If someone else has to die for Harry to have the resolve to win, I think it might be Ginny or Molly. There are so many Weasleys all deeply involved in the war, I think they aren't all going to make it.
Ginny would cause the most angst, in my opinion, and millions would definitely weep or rejoice for that. I do think Snape is a goner, though, but I can't decide when he will go down. Hagrid is another possibility. With Dumbledore gone, he's lost his anchor.
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castle - Feb 14, 2006 12:17 pm (#713 of 1297)
Hi,What do you think about this for a theory/prediction,-wait for it-okay,I reckon that in book 7 Severus Snape will be killed by Voldemort because of numerous chapters in the Half Blood Prince where Dumbledor showed Harry the memory or the young Tom Riddle in the orphanage and tells him that Voldemort has never had/have or want any friend and that he also treats his followerers or so called "Friends" with as much mercy as he does his enemies final point Dumbledore told Harry that Voldemort hated having anything the same as anybody else like the name Tom and he wanted to be unique. Also because they have somethings in common like the nicknames Tom Riddle = Lord Voldemort and Snape + Half Blood Prince also they are both half-bloods Witch mother Muggle father, they both grew up as loners and deeply involved with the dark arts and they both hate Harry Potter
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haymoni - Feb 14, 2006 2:11 pm (#714 of 1297)
I think Snape will be killed, but I think that he will be killed saving Harry.
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virginiaelizabeth - Feb 19, 2006 10:39 pm (#715 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
Hmmmm.. thats a pretty interesting thought haymoni. JKR said that the third movie gave away tons of hints about the future plot of Harry Potter and one of the "questionable" scenes is the one where Snape stands between the trio and Lupin as he is transforming. Snape spreads out his arms in a very protecting manner and he does this even though he is extremely mad at the trio. I wonder if this has anything to do with Snape saving Harry in the last book....
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haymoni - Feb 20, 2006 11:07 am (#716 of 1297)
I certainly hope so.
It would be nice if ONE of my theories proved to be correct!!!
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colbow - Feb 27, 2006 11:23 am (#717 of 1297)
haymoni, I think you going to hit a bulleye with that theory, because if Snape was truly on Voldie side then he could have easy popped off Harry and left Hogwarts to join up with Voldie ,in the last two books. So far all the deaths have been people close to Harry, wonder if the "bad" side or those percived to be bad are going to take a hit? Snape I feel will be one of them.
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MichaelmasGal - Mar 6, 2006 1:55 pm (#718 of 1297)
I think Ron will die. One of the main three it seems almost needs to. It won't be Harry and JKR likes Hermione too much.
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colbow - Mar 10, 2006 11:54 am (#719 of 1297)
Yes but how many people that are close to Harry have to die? Will he ever be able to have those who truely love him survive? Time for the bad side to take a hit....
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virginiaelizabeth - Mar 13, 2006 3:37 pm (#720 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
I really don't think JKR would kill one of trio. I have to agree with you colbow, it is time for the bad guys to take a hit. The main theme throughout all the books is good verses evil, and for the most part( few exeptions) good has always prevailed over evil. I think it would be extremely inconsistent and un-characteristic of JKR to go against the central theme of her story at the very end by switching it around. This is mainly why I believe that Harry will survive, and conquer LV.
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Choices - Mar 13, 2006 7:26 pm (#721 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Who will die in book 7.....my money is on Voldemort. :-) Go Harry!!
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Snuffles - Mar 14, 2006 4:19 am (#722 of 1297)
Olivia
Lol Choices, I really hope you are right.
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TheSaint - Mar 14, 2006 5:16 am (#723 of 1297)
Choices, There are things worse than death...like squib janitor in a school full of magical kids!!!
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Choices - Mar 14, 2006 11:53 am (#724 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Yep, Filch may suffer, but he gives as good as he gits. LOL
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geauxtigers - Mar 21, 2006 3:57 pm (#725 of 1297)
Yum!
I think that Voldemort will die. I'm hoping that the trio will survive, I don't think she would kill them, but I can see her killing Harry as a symbolic heroic death or something. But obviously I want everyone but Voldemort to die. Fairy tale endings I think I prefere those to evil winning-endings!
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Amilia Smith - Mar 24, 2006 1:13 am (#726 of 1297)
But obviously I want everyone but Voldemort to die.
Erm, surely you meant "to live"?
Mills.
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geauxtigers - Mar 24, 2006 2:43 pm (#727 of 1297)
Yum!
Oops Sorry you're right! Thats what I get for not reading it over! Yes I hope everyone lives but Voldemort!
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Deb Zawacki - Mar 28, 2006 2:13 pm (#728 of 1297)
Will Narcissa be willing to die to protect her son in the same way that Lily did to protect Harry?
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Deb Zawacki - Mar 28, 2006 2:18 pm (#729 of 1297)
Yeah, but Ginny's real name name is a derivation of Guinavere (with her daddy being Arthur...and Harry her Lancelot) What happened to Guinny @ Camelot? Did she die?)
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Deb Zawacki - Mar 28, 2006 2:28 pm (#730 of 1297)
To be honest, if Draco does die it would likely be in some painful way--and he'd have a deathbed message for Harry to carry on and kill Voldemort-- and we would be filled with tears that Draco would have to come to the right way only as he faced his final breaths. I can see Draco telling Harry that he actually admired him and apologizing and then dying.
I don't know if Snape will die but I think he will turn out to be the one at his side going into battle. I thinK that Voldemort will be prepared to kill Snape and Harry will actually save Snape because he will see Snape "though his mother's eyes" and becasue in the end love has to be the most opowerful magic and has to win.
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frogface - Mar 29, 2006 2:22 am (#731 of 1297)
Deb, you can edit your posts if you think of something else to say, rather than posting three times in a row, which takes away from your 10 post a day limit. There is a time limit but I forget how long.
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dizzy lizzy - Mar 29, 2006 3:34 am (#732 of 1297)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
The time limit is 30 minutes to change/edit your post. Its a good way around your 10 post per day limit.
Lizzy
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Finn BV - Mar 29, 2006 8:43 am (#733 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Deb, also, the "Reply" button alongside each post is a little pointless if you ask me, because your message doesn't indicate which message you're replying to. So, if you feel some way about a certain post, copy the important text, cite which post # you're getting it from, and put all your points into one post. That way, you can post more often!
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Magic Words - Apr 5, 2006 3:36 pm (#734 of 1297)
I'm afraid Rubeus Hagrid is a goner. The alchemic symbolism in the last two books was just too perfect. (For those who haven't come across this yet, the final three stages in the alchemic process are the Black, White, and Red stages, and so far the major deaths - Sirius and Dumbledore - have names meaning Black and White.)
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Steve Newton - Apr 5, 2006 3:40 pm (#735 of 1297)
Librarian
Magic, Rufus also means red. I'm guessing that Rosmerta might also be red. But, you are right, things don't look good for the big guy.
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Magic Words - Apr 5, 2006 6:35 pm (#736 of 1297)
I did consider Scrimgeour, I just don't think he's an important enough character. I'm also remembering the way the transitions go: Dumbledore saved Harry after Sirius's death and took him back to Hogwarts, and after Dumbledore's death Harry chases Snape out to Hagrid's hut and it's Buckbeak (Hagrid's pet) who chases Snape off.
I remember seeing a definition for Rosmerta, can't remember what it was... I think it was on one of the scrapbook pieces hidden on JKR's website.
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Joanne R. Reid - Apr 25, 2006 11:16 am (#737 of 1297)
Hi,
The demise of Dumbledore affected me. I grieved ... for a character in a book! It has taken me this long to begin reengaging this topic.
I have long thought and advocated that the Harry Potter series is one more in the great stories of humankind. Like all these great stories it is one of Good vs. Evil. That is, it is a morality play.
Within this context, it is critical for Good to triumph over Evil. Good must conquer, vanquish and destroy Evil. However, the manner in which this is accomplished may not be in such a way that Good succeeds by useing the artifices of Evil to accomplish its purpose. For if it does, then Good becomes the very Evil that it had been trying to destroy.
Further, it accomplishes nothing if Good is destroyed in the process of conquering Evil. For then, what is the difference? Why should one prefer the Good to the Evil if, in the end, there is no difference in outcomes?
Thus, I have argued, Harry will live while Voldemort dies.
However, I have come to distrust JKR. Because of this, I will not rush out, as I have in the past, wand in hand to stand in line, eagerly awaiting my copy of the seventh and final book. Instead, I will wait, biding my time until I am sure that she has not killed off dear Harry, Hermione, Ron or Ginny. If I find that my young heroes have survived, then and only then will I purchase my copy. Then and only then will I purchase the many copies I routinely used to buy for all the children amongst my family and friends.
And, should I find that JKR has forsaken my trust in her as an author worthy of writing works of fiction for children, then I will not purchase this the last book in the series. I will take out the six well-worn books in my possession and throw them in the trash, so that my grandchildren will not need to contend with their violent images and JKR's disturbing world-view.
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Magic Words - Apr 25, 2006 12:04 pm (#738 of 1297)
Joanne, I agree with most of what you're saying. Good has to conquer evil - no question about it. And good has to come out ahead, not become evil or be destroyed in the process of defeating it.
Where I respectfully disagree is in saying that for this to occur, Harry must live while Voldemort dies. Don't get me wrong, I think it's most likely that Harry and his friends will live, and it's certainly what I'm hoping for. And Voldemort has to die or be defeated in some other equally permanent way (since we have Dumbledore's assurance that there are things worse than death). But Harry does not embody the Good side to the same extent that Voldemort does the Evil side. Harry is Good, of course, but so are Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Neville, Professor McGonagall.... while the good guys in the series do often take cues from a leader, such as Dumbledore or Harry, they are also capable of carrying on without one. Not so the Death Eaters. Although some Death Eaters managed to escape justice after Voldemort's first downfall (JKR has not said that evil is not a fact of life today, because that would be untrue) we saw the direct threat they had posed to society disappear overnight. Voldemort's final defeat, while not eliminating all evil from the world, will again remove the threat of his evil goals. If Harry dies, on the other hand, the goals he championed will still flourish in the lives of his friends, allies, and I will venture to say society as a whole (since the entire Wizarding World views him as something of a savior).
Furthermore, I think it would be a mistake to equate death with defeat. For Voldemort, this is most certainly the case, since we have heard him claim that "there is nothing worse than death" (OotP). But for the Good side, not only is death merely "the next great adventure" (Dumbledore, PS/SS), Sirius tells us straight out that "there are things worth dying for" (OotP). I have complete faith in JKR's ability to write a victory in spite of Harry's death, if she so chooses.
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The One - Apr 25, 2006 12:56 pm (#739 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
I agree with Magic Words.
I also want to say that I think the later books are written for the older children, those who are old enough to understand concepts like sacrifice and victory at a high cost. The 7th book mat not be suitable for 10 year olds, even in PS was so.
When that is said, I expect the trio to survive, and hope they will survive.
But there are several endings possible.
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Die Zimtzicke - Apr 25, 2006 6:42 pm (#740 of 1297)
If Jo has to kill Harry, and does it in a way that makes sense, I will read it. I will even buy HbP to go with the last book. (I didn't buy it so far because I absolutely abhored it when I got it out of the library.) If I think the series ends in a way that touches me, hoever, I'll buy both of the last books.
Everyone is assuming if Harry dies, it's going to be badly done. That's not a fair assumption, in my opinion to make. Wait and see if it happens, yes, but also wait and see how it happens and why, if it does. Everyone dies. It's how you live the life you are given that matters.
As far as the books being kids books, they opened with a double murder and an abused child and got darker. We can't expect the pattern to suddenly change in the end and be completely sweetness and light. There's going to be more loss, because it's a war, and you have losses in wars, but the losses are justified by the greater good that comes from the war's end.
Jo's books are classified as children's books, and she accepts that NOW, but she never thought of herself as a children's author at first. In the Movie Magic magazine that came out in May, 2004 she was still saying she found it interesting that she was considered a children's author, because she had never seen herself as one. So the idea that this or that shouldn't happen bcause it's a children's book makes no sense to me.
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Thom Matheson - Apr 25, 2006 8:58 pm (#741 of 1297)
Jo, as an avid reader of any kind, I mark the quality of an author by their ability to transform me into their world and most importantly make me believe that I am actually there. The same with a good movie. You are obviously quite moved by the books as a piece of litrature. As am I. JKR's ability to take a fiction story and get me to cry, cheer, get made, etc. is her mark of great ability.
In this case, I would bet the farm that good will win out. Whether all of our favorite characters will survive the final battle, is another matter. Trying to guess which, if any, of the kids will die is what makes this a great Forum. We all have ideas and thoughts. I can only tell you that DD's passing was my biggest blow yet, but after long reflection it made sense to the story. Right from the beginning it was made clear to us that "Harry is the one that has to go on". Not Ron, not Hermione. Well you remember the line at the chess board. Go buy the books. As a piece of litrature, this series has evoked more emotion, in all directions, then any author I can remember in over 45 years of reading. I cannot remember anyone living in my lifetime that has accomplished more. Most of the really greats were written long before we were around and we are lucky enough to be witnesses to this. How cool is that.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Apr 26, 2006 5:49 am (#742 of 1297)
Will Harry survive or will he die? Does it make it a bad book if Harry dies? Does this mean that while evil has been defeated it is a hollow victory if Harry or others die? Of course not. How many myths have the hero dying to vanquish evil? If we were to take the attitude of Harry dying would be a triumph of evil we should then go an discard everything from the Gospel to Greek myths and beyond.
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cindysuewho45 - Apr 26, 2006 12:01 pm (#743 of 1297)
Hi all, I was just reading in QQQ about JKR's Mom, and how and when she died. JKR was talking about how she felt about it. So I was thinking that of everyone in the books, Molly is who we would look at as Mom. So I could see Molly being killed off and then how all the Weasley's would feel about it and how it would play out in the book.
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haymoni - Apr 26, 2006 12:55 pm (#744 of 1297)
I don't think JKR would kill Molly - it would be like Harry losing his mom all over again.
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Saracene - Apr 29, 2006 10:11 pm (#745 of 1297)
The main reason why I think Harry will not die fighting Voldemort is the whole coming-of-age storyline. I just don't see the point of writing Harry grow up, mature, learn life lessons, etc. etc., only to kill him off at the tender age of seventeen at the end. What was that growing-up stuff for, then?
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frogface - May 1, 2006 6:22 am (#746 of 1297)
Because that is life Saracene. People develop and grow, no matter at what point in their life they are going to die. If Harry died but had been written unrealistically as a character who remained pretty much the same person in six years, I for one wouldn't feel much emotional investment in him, and his death would be indifferent to me. Because he would just be a character in a book.
But Harry is more than that, he is a realistic person in a fantasy world. A world which is more fantastic and crazy than our own, but yet mirror's our world in thousands of ways. In real life people (sometimes young people) do die in the fight for what they believe is right. Where would we be now if all those men, young and old, hadn't gone off to fight and subsequently given their lives in the 2nd World War to apose something they saw as evil? I believe in the power of sacrifice, and I believe in JKR. If she kills off Harry, then I'll still love these books for showing me Harry, Hermione, Ron, Ginny, Neville and all the other characters grow. I'll still love them for helping me grow myself. And I'll admire them for showing that life isn't always pretty, and it isn't fair. That isn't to say I won't be happy if Harry lives! But if he dies, I'll grieve, but I'll accept it.
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Esther Rose - May 1, 2006 7:04 am (#747 of 1297)
I think only half of Harry will die. I don't know how this would be done though.
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Madame Pomfrey - May 2, 2006 7:08 am (#748 of 1297)
Didn't JKR say she wouldn't be writing any more Potter books? She said that book 7 should answer all questions.If Harry survives I don't see how all our questions could be answered.I mean,we are going to want to know if he becomes an Auror,marries Ginny etc.and we are going to want that story line,right? My fear is that the only way I see all questions answered is if Harry dies because the story will end there.Gee,I hope not.
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TheSaint - May 2, 2006 7:09 am (#749 of 1297)
Jo has already stated..the last chapter tells what becomes of the survivors.
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Madame Pomfrey - May 2, 2006 7:15 am (#750 of 1297)
Ooh,I must have missed that. I hope Harry is one of the survivors.I think I'll still want more to the story if he lives though.
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cindysuewho45 - May 3, 2006 1:29 pm (#751 of 1297)
Hi all, Madame Pomfrey, I see where you were going with your post, about if Harry dies, that would end the story. But, I feel that Harry can live and that JKR can give us enough information, about how his life turns out along with all of the others. That we will be happy with the book. However I also understand that know matter what happens, live or die etc.. There are those of us that would like the story to never stop. And want more info.. on any part of it. She could make any part of HP, go on with Harry, Snape, Ginny, the twins, the Order, the new DA etc.etc..and we would read it! I know that I would. But that will not happen, it has to end, and I can see a lot of ways to end it with Harry still alive. That is my hope anyway.
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virginiaelizabeth - May 4, 2006 8:57 pm (#752 of 1297)
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There are those of us that would like the story to never stop. And want more info.. on any part of it. She could make any part of HP, go on with Harry, Snape, Ginny, the twins, the Order, the new DA etc.etc..and we would read it! I know that I would. But that will not happen, it has to end, and I can see a lot of ways to end it with Harry still alive. That is my hope anyway.
I really wish that she would write out the rest of Harry's life until he become 150 yrs old just like DD, but I also understand that the Story has to stop somewhere. I want to know every little tiny detail about Harry and everyone else's lives after they leave Hogwarts, but to tell the truth, it just wouldn't be the same to have an HP book that did take place at Hogwarts, and follow the storyline of Harry trying to defeat Voldie. but I wouldn't really care, because if its about Harry, I'd read it! That to me is what makes the story soo great. She'd have to get pretty creative to continue the story after Hogwarts, I mean the poor kids been through enough, what more could possibly happen to him? But then again she is the writer so I guess she could do whatever she wants with him! I don't think Harry is going to die just because I don't think that Jo would let evil prevail over good, when the whole story has been based upon good prevailing over evil. But that's not a very great solid reason to think that, its just my gut feeling.....sorry for rambling!
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Phelim Mcintyre - May 5, 2006 4:03 am (#753 of 1297)
But virginiaelizabeth - Harry dying and destroying Voldemort would not be a evil prevailing over good. It would be the ultimate sacrifice (greater LOVE has no man than this, that he lays down his life for another). If Harry's greatest weapon is love this could be the outcome. A love driven sacrifice that, like Harry's mother's, breaks the power of Voldemort once and for all allowing the wizarding world to live in peace.
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Saracene - May 5, 2006 4:36 am (#754 of 1297)
frogface: I see your point about real life, but my point is that HP books are not "real life" - it's a made-up story, and stories tend to have themes, patterns, narrative arcs, follow certain conventions, etc. In real life, Harry could easily have died in, say, his encounter with Voldemort in the cemetery - but because we're reading a story with three more books to follow we can be pretty certain that Harry in fact is not going to die in book 4. If I wanted to compare HP books to something, I wouldn't compare them with real-life - I'd be more inclined to compare them with other stories.
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Die Zimtzicke - May 5, 2006 6:20 am (#755 of 1297)
We can compare them to other stories, but we can't say if Jo is following any one pattern, mixing them up, or changing the patterns. Abraham Lincoln once wrote: Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very original after all" but that doesn't mean Jo can't put a new twist on an old theme.
In in a hero's quest, however, if we are sticking with typical literary patterns, the hero usually dies, or ends up alone. Hercules for example, only got Meg in the Disney version. In the original version he was accidentally poisoned by his wife, Dejanira, and had to build his own funeral pyre.
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virginiaelizabeth - May 5, 2006 2:42 pm (#756 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
But virginiaelizabeth - Harry dying and destroying Voldemort would not be a evil prevailing over good. It would be the ultimate sacrifice (greater LOVE has no man than this, that he lays down his life for another). If Harry's greatest weapon is love this could be the outcome. A love driven sacrifice that, like Harry's mother's, breaks the power of Voldemort once and for all allowing the wizarding world to live in peace. -Phelim
What I meant is that JKR is not going to let Voldemort kill Harry and still survive. Either LV is going to die at the hand of Harry, or they will both die, but Voldemort will not prevail over Harry, she just wouldn't do that in my opinion.
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Phelim Mcintyre - May 8, 2006 1:05 am (#757 of 1297)
virginiaelizabeth - I agree!!
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colbow - May 8, 2006 4:14 pm (#758 of 1297)
I don't think that Harry will die, I do think he will find a way to destroy Voldie, but not with death. Think of it, if Harry succeeds in find and destroying all remaining Horcruxes, then Voldie will be a mere Muggle, because he only has one part soul left in him. If all of your soul is destroyed, what have you got left? In rereading OotP, Dumbledore points this out.. in a glaring way. I do think Harry, Ron, Hermione may take a beating out destroying the Horcruxes( look at Dumbledore's hand)and there may be some more death's but, not the trio. I think that JKR will show that evil will destroy itself. Voldie took steps to ensure that he will never die, but in doing so he also created his own down fall. I think Harry has been put through the ringer ,had so much sadness in his life ( deaths of Sirius, his mum and dad, Dumbledore ) to help him grow and defeat Voldie in such a way that Voldie will be a muggle/squib, which would be worse then death for him. Death for Voldie would be no big deal, but to see him suffer , maybe in St.Mungo's would be much worse for Voldie to deal with. Then you have the DE's who would see their leader fall, and we know the DE can't function without him, they are simply cowards. Any hoo that my two knuts worth...
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geauxtigers - May 8, 2006 5:42 pm (#759 of 1297)
Yum!
Voldie took steps to ensure that he will never die, but in doing so he also created his own down fall.
Thats a great way to put it and I think thats what'll end up happening, I just don't see Harry murdering Vold, having a dementor kiss him or something like that, yeah, but somehow I think Jo will show us that good can prevail over evil, without stooping to evil's level. See what I mean?
Any hoo that my two knuts worth... hmmmm ha ha no comment for fear of being inapropriate! I'm sorry couldn't help it! Just made me laugh thats all...
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virginiaelizabeth - May 8, 2006 5:44 pm (#760 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
Think of it, if Harry succeeds in find and destroying all remaining Horcruxes, then Voldie will be a mere Muggle, because he only has one part soul left in him......defeat Voldie in such a way that Voldie will be a muggle/squib, which would be worse then death for him.
I don't think that taking away all of Voldemorts horcruxes would make him into a muggle. He would just become a mortal man once more. I don't think that there is anyway to take away magical powers so that Voldemort would be a muggle/squib, He was born that way and I don't think that can change. You can't make a muggle into a witch/wizard, if they have no magical abilities, I mean you can put a wand in Dudley's hand and tell him to say lumos and expect it to do anything because he's a muggle, so I don't think that it works the other way around either.
Death for Voldie would be no big deal, but to see him suffer , maybe in St.Mungo's would be much worse for Voldie to deal with.
Again, Voldemort would be much worse off in St. Mungo's. To Voldemort, deathis the ultimate suffer. He is not like a regular human, who may chose death over a lifetime in a hospital. Voldemort's greatest fear is death, that is why he has tried so hard to prevent it by spliting his soul into 7 parts, and becoming icreasingly less human over the years. If he's going to go to all that trouble to avoid death, then why would sitting in St.Mungo's for the rest of his life, be worse than death? He would rather live trapped and contained within the hospital because at least he is still alive.
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Magic Words - May 9, 2006 8:43 am (#761 of 1297)
I think Virginiaelizabeth is exactly right. Dumbledore says himself that even though Voldemort only has 1/7 soul at present, his mind and magical powers are as great as ever. And Voldemort says in OotP that there is nothing worse than death. Also, I think we need to remember the prophecy, that "neither can live while the other survives." I know if I were Harry, and defeated Voldemort in such a fashion, I would spend a lot of time worrying about what he might get up to. Muggles can cause more than enough trouble if they put their minds to it.
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colbow - May 9, 2006 10:24 am (#762 of 1297)
Well I meant was that he would be come mere man. I think Voldie thinks nothing of death, he want to ensure his survival because he wants power...power over others, for control of others. If he was killed it would be no big deal to him( he is dead after all), if he was stripped of his powers or reduced to a mere man and everyone SAW him a a mere man , who was a nobody, and no one was even remotely afraid of him would be a far better ending then , Harry killing him or Voldie killing Harry. I do think that Voldie created his own down fall, and it is just up to Harry to figure it out.
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Magic Words - May 9, 2006 11:06 am (#763 of 1297)
The trouble is, Colbow, I don't think there's a possible scenario in which "no one was even remotely afraid of him." Wizards are afraid of his name even 11 years after his supposed death; how could they not be afraid of a man with his name, past, personality, and values, even if that man is a Muggle or mortal wizard? I think the wizarding world will only breath easily again once he is totally removed from the picture. Even death might not be enough; I'm leaning towards dementor involvement myself.
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virginiaelizabeth - May 9, 2006 1:38 pm (#764 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
I agree, with you Magic Words, nothing can possibly happen to Voldemort that will make the wizarding world not be afraid of him. They will still fear him long after he dies, simply because of who he was and what he did. He will never be forgotten, or forgiven, and I think he's going to be known as "you-know-who/he-who-must-not-be-named" forever. After 11 years of most of the magical world believing he was dead, they still were afraid to speak his name.That fear and hatred is rooted down to a personal level with some families, who have had other family members die at the hand of Voldemort, and that will never change.
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geauxtigers - May 9, 2006 7:23 pm (#765 of 1297)
Yum!
If he was killed it would be no big deal to him( he is dead after all),
Well his greatest fear is death, I think this is a much pore accurate thing to say about the rest of the world DD especally. If you're dead, why would that be a big deal? Vold's greatest fear is death, why do you think he has spent literally from the time he went to Hogwarts, trying to become immortal?
if he was stripped of his powers or reduced to a mere man and everyone SAW him a a mere man - Colbow
This, I can be more agreeable with, though it isn't all Voldemort wants, he wants much more than power, he wants immortality and to rid the world of muggleborns and have just pure-bloods when he himself isn't a pureblood. Avoiding politics here but its the same thing as Hitler and the Aryan race when he himself was totally opposite. Its been discussed how JKR has certain paralells in the WW and the actual time frame of the muggle world. I'll stop there I'm getting off topic.
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Pamzter - May 11, 2006 8:00 pm (#766 of 1297)
We must have a great tragic loss in war -- Lupin and Tonks will marry and one of them will die.
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haymoni - May 11, 2006 8:05 pm (#767 of 1297)
Oh, Pamzter - I really, really hope that you are wrong!
Remus deserves some happiness and Tonks is so, so worthy for seeing just how wonderful he is.
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Pamzter - May 12, 2006 7:23 am (#768 of 1297)
Haymoni - I really hope I'm wrong too because I absolute adore both of them, but I can't think of anything that would carry more of an emotional to it. If it does happen I hope it's in a blaze of glory - I previously suggested Lupin sacrifices himself to save Tonks from Greyback (and takes Greyback down as well).
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Deb Zawacki - May 14, 2006 2:39 pm (#769 of 1297)
I was thinking the other day about the scene os SS/PS when the "soul-thing" that was Voldemort was drinking the unicorn blood and Firenze explained that drinking something that pure and good would leave the person to live only a half-life...
Is Voldemort living a half-life--did that carry over once he was reborn--and was that think outside of Quirrel at the time or contained within him--it could fly so...
I'm just wondering if there was any dilution of his soul from then on that might affect him in the end--you know you think you have some power in your flashlight but the batteries are dying...
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iloveHarry - May 15, 2006 5:59 am (#770 of 1297)
Voldemort
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Choices - May 16, 2006 7:08 pm (#771 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think since it was Quirrell who physically drank the Unicorn blood, the half-life thing applied to him not Voldemort.
Quirrell did fly away in the movie, but he did not in the book.
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frogface - May 17, 2006 3:56 am (#772 of 1297)
I think it applies to Voldemort seeing as it was the unicorn blood that was sustaining HIM. And besides, we know that is doomed to a half life, at least he is unless he finds a way to get rid of Harry.
None can live while the other surives.
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geauxtigers - May 18, 2006 7:55 pm (#773 of 1297)
Yum!
Deb, I have also wondered about that from time to time and never posted because I can't come up with a good theory. Its very complicated because even if he has a half-life, does that mean that his horcruxes have a half life? Can souls live for ever in is the question. If they can, and I think they do, then drinking unicorn blood was pointless because he has horcruxes and can't die because souls can't die and he has his severed in like 7 parts. Complicated yes, but I guess he could've drank it to save his vapormort body. But even then his soul doesn't need it and its not giving him a bod back so why go to the trouble? Okay I'm having trouble putting the pieces together and it makes my head spin trying to sort it out so if any one out there can understand what I'm thinking, or set me on the right track that be very helpful!
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Magic Words - May 18, 2006 8:51 pm (#774 of 1297)
Firenze says drinking unicorn blood gives you a cursed half-life because "you have slain something pure and innocent to save yourself" (or something along those lines). I'm thinking anyone who has murdered six people (and more) to gain immortality has already done enough damage in the "pure and innocent" department that he hardly needs to worry about a little thing like killing a unicorn. His soul is already too mutilated for a whole life.
He may have needed the unicorn blood to stay in Quirrel's head. Or maybe Quirrel needed it to survive with Voldemort in his head.
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geauxtigers - May 18, 2006 9:06 pm (#775 of 1297)
Yum!
Thanks Magic Words, that makes a whole lot more sense than what I could come up with! That cleared up all my riddikulus brain babbling that will probably never stop, but hey yall know all about that so enough said! merci beaucoup!
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Choices - May 19, 2006 6:32 pm (#776 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Well, the drinking of the unicorn blood happened in book one and as of book six we have not seen any obvious effects of the unicorn blood causing Voldemort to be cursed or half-lived. Quirrell, being dead, can't exhibit any of those effects, so it is hard to know which would suffer those things if both were still living. Perhaps Voldemort will yet exhibit some symptoms.
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Deb Zawacki - May 20, 2006 5:47 pm (#777 of 1297)
On the other hand, Voldemorts life would hardly ever be full--he is not interested in lovre or family, no woman in her right mind would marry him--he spends his days plotting and hurting and killing others and existing as a hateful malevolent, vicious serpant of a man-- Sounds like a less-than-half-life...
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haymoni - May 20, 2006 6:52 pm (#778 of 1297)
With the Horcruxes in place and Voldy not caring much about his followers, why would he worry about he or Quirrel drinking the unicorn blood?
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Choices - May 20, 2006 7:53 pm (#779 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I doubt he frets over it, Haymoni. And Deb, Voldemort was all those things before Quirrell drank the Unicorn blood for him. To quote Snape..."I see no difference" post-drinking the blood as opposed to how he was pre-drinking. Hum, did that make any sense?? LOL
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Deb Zawacki - May 21, 2006 2:30 pm (#780 of 1297)
Well yeah it makes sense, but all I'm saying is that he pretty much lives a half-life anyway--living breathing evil but no fullness of life as we define it.
But here's what I don't get--Quirrel was alive and breathing, albeit under V-Morts possession--why would HE need to drink unicorn blood---it maybe weakened him to have V in there but he wasn't close to death... V-mort's soul didn't need to drink anything to sustain itself--spirits don't eat or drink---so I guess I don't get the whole unicorn blood thing except for shock value.
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Choices - May 21, 2006 7:09 pm (#781 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Evidently Voldemort did need the unicorn blood to remain viable and strong, so he directed Quirrell to drink it for him. He also took the venom "cocktail" that Wormtail fed him to strengthen himself. He did need to do things to retain his vitality until he was able to gain a new body.
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Chemyst - May 21, 2006 9:30 pm (#782 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I've always had a different take on the half-life of unicorn blood; maybe because I read the early books before I was influenced by the fine minds here at the Lexicon forum.
I always thought the curse of the unicorn blood applied only to Quirrell. Voldemort didn't yet have a circulatory system that could be affected by it. But it showed just how depraved Voldemort really is that he would care so little for his host body as to force it to drink unicorn blood. Voldemort was used to having to switch bodies periodically because he'd wear out the animal hosts fairly quickly. Remember, being possessed by Voldemort prematurely ages the host. Normally when the host body started failing, Voldemort would just find a new one, except now he needed Quirrell's bodily access to Hogwarts. It would be much harder to find a new host with access to the third floor corridor and eventually to the stone; so Voldemort needed to extend Quirrell's life a bit. And if it left Quirrell with only a half-life, so much the better for Voldemort; it would be one less loose end he'd have to tie up later.
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Choices - May 22, 2006 10:28 am (#783 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Chemyst - I really like your take on the unicorn blood thing.
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Soul Mate for Sirius - May 22, 2006 11:08 am (#784 of 1297)
Counting the days until 6/20/09....
Chemyst, that's how I had always read that part of PS too! I always assumed the unicorn blood was to keep Quirrell alive so LV could keep using them. Of course, when you first read that passage, you don't know LV is inside someone, we're led to believe it's just LV, but once you find out he's possesing Quirrell, it makes sense that the unicorn blood wasn't for LV, but for Quirrell.
(I hope that made at least some sense! )
-Jenn
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haymoni - May 22, 2006 2:02 pm (#785 of 1297)
Maybe Quirrel was actually bending over backwards and Voldy was drinking the blood.
"Arch your back more, Quirrel, you fool! I'm not even close - Aargh!! You idiot! Now I need a nose job on top of a new body!!"
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virginiaelizabeth - May 22, 2006 7:04 pm (#786 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
Yes I always looked at the situation as Quirrel needed it to survive, because of what Voldemort was doing to his body. In a sense, Voldemort was "killing" Quirrell and the Unicorn blood was keeping him alive.
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geauxtigers - May 24, 2006 7:47 pm (#787 of 1297)
Yum!
Yeah I can't say thats always been my take because I can't remember what I thought the first time I read it. Its been so long, but I think my first thought probably would have been that, but hey I don't have the world's greatest memory.
HA HA Haymoni!
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iloveHarry - May 30, 2006 7:24 am (#788 of 1297)
Edited by Denise P. May 30, 2006 7:32 pm
always thought it was to keep LV alive? am i wrong?
I always thought it was to keep LV alive? Am I wrong?
edit: iloveHarry, you post is in italics because you failed to capitalize your "I" As stated in the Philosophy of the Forum, netspeak such as "i" should not be used. Please use capital letters where they are intended to be used. ~Denise P
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Choices - May 30, 2006 11:51 am (#789 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
From: The Philosophy of the Forum
This Forum also expects its members to use proper English (that includes proper capitalization, spelling, and grammar), this means no Netspeak. We have many members who do not speak English as a first language and so proper English in posts is necessary to allow them to correctly understand what is being posted. (We understand that spelling and grammar mistakes often occur during posting.) The use of phrases such as “N E 1,” “prolly,” and “u” may not be understood or may be misunderstood by these members. If someone insists on using Netspeak, they will be asked politely to change their mode of speech. That kind of speech is appropriate in some places and inappropriate in others. This is one of the places where it's inappropriate.
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frogface - Jun 1, 2006 5:38 am (#790 of 1297)
I always thought it was sustaining Voldy. After all he says "Unicorn blood has strengthened me, these past few weeks...you saw faithful Quirrell drinking it for me in the Forest". - Pg 213 of the Bloomsbury version of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.
The key words there being me. He reffered to it strengthening himself, not Quirrell.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 8, 2006 3:07 am (#791 of 1297)
I posted this thought on the Dumbledore's Will thread but it goes here as well. I hope Dumbledore left something, a memory, about destroying Horcruxes. Destroying the ring cost Dumbledore his hand. It could have been worse. Without the help of a memory or such could destroying the horcruxes cost Ron and/or Hermione their lives?
Paper (as in the diary) was easy to pierce with the Basillisk fang, but the locket, cup and whatever may be much harder. I think the soul in the ring horcrux was destroyed without destroying the ring, the same may be the case for the other Horcruxes.
To sumarise, I could see the destruction of the Horcruxes bring about the deaths of Hermione and/or Ron.
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whitehound - Jun 24, 2006 1:21 pm (#792 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
I'm new to this list and I haven't got time to read through all the posts, so please forgive me if I repeat what somebody else has already said.
On her website, JKR has got a calendar, on which she lists day to day events in the wizarding world as they "happen". These include birthday greetings to various characters. The calendar was begun in May 2004 and a few new names were added on the second pass, but no new names have been added (and nobody taken off) since June 2005.
No birthday greetings are given to characters who are definitely on Voldemort's side (Bellatrix, Lucius etc.), even if they are major characters.
No birthday greetings are given to characters who are definitely dead (Sirius, James, Lily), even if they are major characters.
[Dumbledore isn't listed either, but that doesn't really bear on whether he did die at the end of HBP or not, since he is very old, and could well have been still alive in 1997 and yet dead by 2004. If JKR is going to pull a fast one and bring him back she wouldn't do anything so obvious as putting him among the birthday boys.]
The implication - and it is only an implication, but at the same time it's a pretty strong one - is that all those who get birthday greetings are intended to be still alive in 2006, and more or less on the side of the angels. That doesn't prove they won't be seriously injured - I suspect Ron will be sacrificed in the sense of losing a leg or similar - but they do pull through.
The people who get birthday wishes on the calendar are as follows:
Harry; Hermione; Molly, Arthur and *all* their children; Neville; Draco; Fleur; Lupin; Dobby; McGonagall; Snape; Hagrid; Flitwick; Sprout
Not being on the list doesn't prove a character is dead: JK may just not have assigned them a birthdate yet. But being on the list strongly implies that that character will survive.
Fairly major characters whose names are *not* listed include Luna, Moody, Tonks and the Creeveys, so I reckon the deaths will come from among them, as well as from more minor characters such as Cho, Dean, Shacklebolt, the Patils etc.. The unlisted Slytherins such as Pansy could be going to die or they could just be going to be Dark (or JK just hasn't given them birthdates yet, because they are bit-part players).
The only fly in the ointment is that JKR has said in interviews that we are going to learn a lot more about how ghosts are formed, and that happy people don't become ghosts. I'm not sure whether, if she were to kill e.g. Snape and turn him into a ghost, she would still send him birthday greetings or not.
However, she has also said that the killing of Sirius was not arbitrary but was vital to the plot and that we will find out more about it - and see more of the two-way mirrors - in Book 7, and also Nearly Headless Nick tells Harry that the DoM is conducting research on how ghosts are formed. Therefore, I reckon the ghost will be Sirius, artificially forced to become one by the Veil.
That would mean that Nearly Headless Nick's speech about how Sirius was too brave to have got stuck between earth and afterlife, as he himself did, was a red herring; because Sirius would have become a ghost not because he was scared to go on but because he was trapped into a DoM experiment.
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Choices - Jun 24, 2006 5:02 pm (#793 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Whitehound - "...also Nearly Headless Nick tells Harry that the DoM is conducting research on how ghosts are formed."
Actually, I think Nick is speaking of the secrets of death being studied, not how ghosts are formed.
"I know nothing of the secrets of death, Harry, for I chose my feeble imitation of life instead. I believe learned wizards study the matter in the Department of Mysteries____" Nearly Headless Nick
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whitehound - Jun 24, 2006 5:35 pm (#794 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
Possibly - but it sounds to me as though what they are studying is how that choice of an imitation of death is made. Or both.
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The One - Jun 25, 2006 3:45 am (#795 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
whithound
Evien if Ron was to die, I cannot imagine JKR give it away by failing to give his birthday. So I have doubts as to that reasoning.
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whitehound - Jun 25, 2006 8:48 am (#796 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
It would seem to be a give-away, yes. But, if she was being devious and giving birthday greetings even to people who are dead by 2004, in order to obscure the issue, you would expect she would give them to Sirius and Dumbledore and possibly to James and Lily as well.
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Mrs. D. - Jun 25, 2006 9:10 am (#797 of 1297)
The veil is used to study death in the DOM. Do they use it by talking somehow with those on the other side, or do they in fact travel through it? I am picturing a tether of some sort to pull them back when they are done exploring. Could someone tie themselves off and go in and get Sirius? I am picturing a scene from Poltergeist here.
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Magic Words - Jun 25, 2006 2:36 pm (#798 of 1297)
The question then, I imagine, is whether you're a lifeless body when they pull you back out. Or whether your end of the tether vanishes when it hits the veil.
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Pamzter - Jun 25, 2006 4:44 pm (#799 of 1297)
Perhaps someone with a silver hand can reach through and pull you back.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jun 26, 2006 10:02 am (#800 of 1297)
Doesn't Riddle have a birthday? I thought he did. How to interpret that would be complicated, would it not?
But anyway, I do not believe she is letting people know who is going to die by choosing birthdays. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I wish someone who knew about this theory had thought to ask her at some point.
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Hi all, Madame Pomfrey, I see where you were going with your post, about if Harry dies, that would end the story. But, I feel that Harry can live and that JKR can give us enough information, about how his life turns out along with all of the others. That we will be happy with the book. However I also understand that know matter what happens, live or die etc.. There are those of us that would like the story to never stop. And want more info.. on any part of it. She could make any part of HP, go on with Harry, Snape, Ginny, the twins, the Order, the new DA etc.etc..and we would read it! I know that I would. But that will not happen, it has to end, and I can see a lot of ways to end it with Harry still alive. That is my hope anyway.
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virginiaelizabeth - May 4, 2006 8:57 pm (#752 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
There are those of us that would like the story to never stop. And want more info.. on any part of it. She could make any part of HP, go on with Harry, Snape, Ginny, the twins, the Order, the new DA etc.etc..and we would read it! I know that I would. But that will not happen, it has to end, and I can see a lot of ways to end it with Harry still alive. That is my hope anyway.
I really wish that she would write out the rest of Harry's life until he become 150 yrs old just like DD, but I also understand that the Story has to stop somewhere. I want to know every little tiny detail about Harry and everyone else's lives after they leave Hogwarts, but to tell the truth, it just wouldn't be the same to have an HP book that did take place at Hogwarts, and follow the storyline of Harry trying to defeat Voldie. but I wouldn't really care, because if its about Harry, I'd read it! That to me is what makes the story soo great. She'd have to get pretty creative to continue the story after Hogwarts, I mean the poor kids been through enough, what more could possibly happen to him? But then again she is the writer so I guess she could do whatever she wants with him! I don't think Harry is going to die just because I don't think that Jo would let evil prevail over good, when the whole story has been based upon good prevailing over evil. But that's not a very great solid reason to think that, its just my gut feeling.....sorry for rambling!
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Phelim Mcintyre - May 5, 2006 4:03 am (#753 of 1297)
But virginiaelizabeth - Harry dying and destroying Voldemort would not be a evil prevailing over good. It would be the ultimate sacrifice (greater LOVE has no man than this, that he lays down his life for another). If Harry's greatest weapon is love this could be the outcome. A love driven sacrifice that, like Harry's mother's, breaks the power of Voldemort once and for all allowing the wizarding world to live in peace.
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Saracene - May 5, 2006 4:36 am (#754 of 1297)
frogface: I see your point about real life, but my point is that HP books are not "real life" - it's a made-up story, and stories tend to have themes, patterns, narrative arcs, follow certain conventions, etc. In real life, Harry could easily have died in, say, his encounter with Voldemort in the cemetery - but because we're reading a story with three more books to follow we can be pretty certain that Harry in fact is not going to die in book 4. If I wanted to compare HP books to something, I wouldn't compare them with real-life - I'd be more inclined to compare them with other stories.
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Die Zimtzicke - May 5, 2006 6:20 am (#755 of 1297)
We can compare them to other stories, but we can't say if Jo is following any one pattern, mixing them up, or changing the patterns. Abraham Lincoln once wrote: Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very original after all" but that doesn't mean Jo can't put a new twist on an old theme.
In in a hero's quest, however, if we are sticking with typical literary patterns, the hero usually dies, or ends up alone. Hercules for example, only got Meg in the Disney version. In the original version he was accidentally poisoned by his wife, Dejanira, and had to build his own funeral pyre.
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virginiaelizabeth - May 5, 2006 2:42 pm (#756 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
But virginiaelizabeth - Harry dying and destroying Voldemort would not be a evil prevailing over good. It would be the ultimate sacrifice (greater LOVE has no man than this, that he lays down his life for another). If Harry's greatest weapon is love this could be the outcome. A love driven sacrifice that, like Harry's mother's, breaks the power of Voldemort once and for all allowing the wizarding world to live in peace. -Phelim
What I meant is that JKR is not going to let Voldemort kill Harry and still survive. Either LV is going to die at the hand of Harry, or they will both die, but Voldemort will not prevail over Harry, she just wouldn't do that in my opinion.
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Phelim Mcintyre - May 8, 2006 1:05 am (#757 of 1297)
virginiaelizabeth - I agree!!
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colbow - May 8, 2006 4:14 pm (#758 of 1297)
I don't think that Harry will die, I do think he will find a way to destroy Voldie, but not with death. Think of it, if Harry succeeds in find and destroying all remaining Horcruxes, then Voldie will be a mere Muggle, because he only has one part soul left in him. If all of your soul is destroyed, what have you got left? In rereading OotP, Dumbledore points this out.. in a glaring way. I do think Harry, Ron, Hermione may take a beating out destroying the Horcruxes( look at Dumbledore's hand)and there may be some more death's but, not the trio. I think that JKR will show that evil will destroy itself. Voldie took steps to ensure that he will never die, but in doing so he also created his own down fall. I think Harry has been put through the ringer ,had so much sadness in his life ( deaths of Sirius, his mum and dad, Dumbledore ) to help him grow and defeat Voldie in such a way that Voldie will be a muggle/squib, which would be worse then death for him. Death for Voldie would be no big deal, but to see him suffer , maybe in St.Mungo's would be much worse for Voldie to deal with. Then you have the DE's who would see their leader fall, and we know the DE can't function without him, they are simply cowards. Any hoo that my two knuts worth...
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geauxtigers - May 8, 2006 5:42 pm (#759 of 1297)
Yum!
Voldie took steps to ensure that he will never die, but in doing so he also created his own down fall.
Thats a great way to put it and I think thats what'll end up happening, I just don't see Harry murdering Vold, having a dementor kiss him or something like that, yeah, but somehow I think Jo will show us that good can prevail over evil, without stooping to evil's level. See what I mean?
Any hoo that my two knuts worth... hmmmm ha ha no comment for fear of being inapropriate! I'm sorry couldn't help it! Just made me laugh thats all...
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virginiaelizabeth - May 8, 2006 5:44 pm (#760 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
Think of it, if Harry succeeds in find and destroying all remaining Horcruxes, then Voldie will be a mere Muggle, because he only has one part soul left in him......defeat Voldie in such a way that Voldie will be a muggle/squib, which would be worse then death for him.
I don't think that taking away all of Voldemorts horcruxes would make him into a muggle. He would just become a mortal man once more. I don't think that there is anyway to take away magical powers so that Voldemort would be a muggle/squib, He was born that way and I don't think that can change. You can't make a muggle into a witch/wizard, if they have no magical abilities, I mean you can put a wand in Dudley's hand and tell him to say lumos and expect it to do anything because he's a muggle, so I don't think that it works the other way around either.
Death for Voldie would be no big deal, but to see him suffer , maybe in St.Mungo's would be much worse for Voldie to deal with.
Again, Voldemort would be much worse off in St. Mungo's. To Voldemort, deathis the ultimate suffer. He is not like a regular human, who may chose death over a lifetime in a hospital. Voldemort's greatest fear is death, that is why he has tried so hard to prevent it by spliting his soul into 7 parts, and becoming icreasingly less human over the years. If he's going to go to all that trouble to avoid death, then why would sitting in St.Mungo's for the rest of his life, be worse than death? He would rather live trapped and contained within the hospital because at least he is still alive.
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Magic Words - May 9, 2006 8:43 am (#761 of 1297)
I think Virginiaelizabeth is exactly right. Dumbledore says himself that even though Voldemort only has 1/7 soul at present, his mind and magical powers are as great as ever. And Voldemort says in OotP that there is nothing worse than death. Also, I think we need to remember the prophecy, that "neither can live while the other survives." I know if I were Harry, and defeated Voldemort in such a fashion, I would spend a lot of time worrying about what he might get up to. Muggles can cause more than enough trouble if they put their minds to it.
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colbow - May 9, 2006 10:24 am (#762 of 1297)
Well I meant was that he would be come mere man. I think Voldie thinks nothing of death, he want to ensure his survival because he wants power...power over others, for control of others. If he was killed it would be no big deal to him( he is dead after all), if he was stripped of his powers or reduced to a mere man and everyone SAW him a a mere man , who was a nobody, and no one was even remotely afraid of him would be a far better ending then , Harry killing him or Voldie killing Harry. I do think that Voldie created his own down fall, and it is just up to Harry to figure it out.
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Magic Words - May 9, 2006 11:06 am (#763 of 1297)
The trouble is, Colbow, I don't think there's a possible scenario in which "no one was even remotely afraid of him." Wizards are afraid of his name even 11 years after his supposed death; how could they not be afraid of a man with his name, past, personality, and values, even if that man is a Muggle or mortal wizard? I think the wizarding world will only breath easily again once he is totally removed from the picture. Even death might not be enough; I'm leaning towards dementor involvement myself.
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virginiaelizabeth - May 9, 2006 1:38 pm (#764 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
I agree, with you Magic Words, nothing can possibly happen to Voldemort that will make the wizarding world not be afraid of him. They will still fear him long after he dies, simply because of who he was and what he did. He will never be forgotten, or forgiven, and I think he's going to be known as "you-know-who/he-who-must-not-be-named" forever. After 11 years of most of the magical world believing he was dead, they still were afraid to speak his name.That fear and hatred is rooted down to a personal level with some families, who have had other family members die at the hand of Voldemort, and that will never change.
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geauxtigers - May 9, 2006 7:23 pm (#765 of 1297)
Yum!
If he was killed it would be no big deal to him( he is dead after all),
Well his greatest fear is death, I think this is a much pore accurate thing to say about the rest of the world DD especally. If you're dead, why would that be a big deal? Vold's greatest fear is death, why do you think he has spent literally from the time he went to Hogwarts, trying to become immortal?
if he was stripped of his powers or reduced to a mere man and everyone SAW him a a mere man - Colbow
This, I can be more agreeable with, though it isn't all Voldemort wants, he wants much more than power, he wants immortality and to rid the world of muggleborns and have just pure-bloods when he himself isn't a pureblood. Avoiding politics here but its the same thing as Hitler and the Aryan race when he himself was totally opposite. Its been discussed how JKR has certain paralells in the WW and the actual time frame of the muggle world. I'll stop there I'm getting off topic.
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Pamzter - May 11, 2006 8:00 pm (#766 of 1297)
We must have a great tragic loss in war -- Lupin and Tonks will marry and one of them will die.
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haymoni - May 11, 2006 8:05 pm (#767 of 1297)
Oh, Pamzter - I really, really hope that you are wrong!
Remus deserves some happiness and Tonks is so, so worthy for seeing just how wonderful he is.
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Pamzter - May 12, 2006 7:23 am (#768 of 1297)
Haymoni - I really hope I'm wrong too because I absolute adore both of them, but I can't think of anything that would carry more of an emotional to it. If it does happen I hope it's in a blaze of glory - I previously suggested Lupin sacrifices himself to save Tonks from Greyback (and takes Greyback down as well).
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Deb Zawacki - May 14, 2006 2:39 pm (#769 of 1297)
I was thinking the other day about the scene os SS/PS when the "soul-thing" that was Voldemort was drinking the unicorn blood and Firenze explained that drinking something that pure and good would leave the person to live only a half-life...
Is Voldemort living a half-life--did that carry over once he was reborn--and was that think outside of Quirrel at the time or contained within him--it could fly so...
I'm just wondering if there was any dilution of his soul from then on that might affect him in the end--you know you think you have some power in your flashlight but the batteries are dying...
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iloveHarry - May 15, 2006 5:59 am (#770 of 1297)
Voldemort
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Choices - May 16, 2006 7:08 pm (#771 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think since it was Quirrell who physically drank the Unicorn blood, the half-life thing applied to him not Voldemort.
Quirrell did fly away in the movie, but he did not in the book.
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frogface - May 17, 2006 3:56 am (#772 of 1297)
I think it applies to Voldemort seeing as it was the unicorn blood that was sustaining HIM. And besides, we know that is doomed to a half life, at least he is unless he finds a way to get rid of Harry.
None can live while the other surives.
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geauxtigers - May 18, 2006 7:55 pm (#773 of 1297)
Yum!
Deb, I have also wondered about that from time to time and never posted because I can't come up with a good theory. Its very complicated because even if he has a half-life, does that mean that his horcruxes have a half life? Can souls live for ever in is the question. If they can, and I think they do, then drinking unicorn blood was pointless because he has horcruxes and can't die because souls can't die and he has his severed in like 7 parts. Complicated yes, but I guess he could've drank it to save his vapormort body. But even then his soul doesn't need it and its not giving him a bod back so why go to the trouble? Okay I'm having trouble putting the pieces together and it makes my head spin trying to sort it out so if any one out there can understand what I'm thinking, or set me on the right track that be very helpful!
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Magic Words - May 18, 2006 8:51 pm (#774 of 1297)
Firenze says drinking unicorn blood gives you a cursed half-life because "you have slain something pure and innocent to save yourself" (or something along those lines). I'm thinking anyone who has murdered six people (and more) to gain immortality has already done enough damage in the "pure and innocent" department that he hardly needs to worry about a little thing like killing a unicorn. His soul is already too mutilated for a whole life.
He may have needed the unicorn blood to stay in Quirrel's head. Or maybe Quirrel needed it to survive with Voldemort in his head.
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geauxtigers - May 18, 2006 9:06 pm (#775 of 1297)
Yum!
Thanks Magic Words, that makes a whole lot more sense than what I could come up with! That cleared up all my riddikulus brain babbling that will probably never stop, but hey yall know all about that so enough said! merci beaucoup!
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Choices - May 19, 2006 6:32 pm (#776 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Well, the drinking of the unicorn blood happened in book one and as of book six we have not seen any obvious effects of the unicorn blood causing Voldemort to be cursed or half-lived. Quirrell, being dead, can't exhibit any of those effects, so it is hard to know which would suffer those things if both were still living. Perhaps Voldemort will yet exhibit some symptoms.
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Deb Zawacki - May 20, 2006 5:47 pm (#777 of 1297)
On the other hand, Voldemorts life would hardly ever be full--he is not interested in lovre or family, no woman in her right mind would marry him--he spends his days plotting and hurting and killing others and existing as a hateful malevolent, vicious serpant of a man-- Sounds like a less-than-half-life...
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haymoni - May 20, 2006 6:52 pm (#778 of 1297)
With the Horcruxes in place and Voldy not caring much about his followers, why would he worry about he or Quirrel drinking the unicorn blood?
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Choices - May 20, 2006 7:53 pm (#779 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I doubt he frets over it, Haymoni. And Deb, Voldemort was all those things before Quirrell drank the Unicorn blood for him. To quote Snape..."I see no difference" post-drinking the blood as opposed to how he was pre-drinking. Hum, did that make any sense?? LOL
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Deb Zawacki - May 21, 2006 2:30 pm (#780 of 1297)
Well yeah it makes sense, but all I'm saying is that he pretty much lives a half-life anyway--living breathing evil but no fullness of life as we define it.
But here's what I don't get--Quirrel was alive and breathing, albeit under V-Morts possession--why would HE need to drink unicorn blood---it maybe weakened him to have V in there but he wasn't close to death... V-mort's soul didn't need to drink anything to sustain itself--spirits don't eat or drink---so I guess I don't get the whole unicorn blood thing except for shock value.
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Choices - May 21, 2006 7:09 pm (#781 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Evidently Voldemort did need the unicorn blood to remain viable and strong, so he directed Quirrell to drink it for him. He also took the venom "cocktail" that Wormtail fed him to strengthen himself. He did need to do things to retain his vitality until he was able to gain a new body.
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Chemyst - May 21, 2006 9:30 pm (#782 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I've always had a different take on the half-life of unicorn blood; maybe because I read the early books before I was influenced by the fine minds here at the Lexicon forum.
I always thought the curse of the unicorn blood applied only to Quirrell. Voldemort didn't yet have a circulatory system that could be affected by it. But it showed just how depraved Voldemort really is that he would care so little for his host body as to force it to drink unicorn blood. Voldemort was used to having to switch bodies periodically because he'd wear out the animal hosts fairly quickly. Remember, being possessed by Voldemort prematurely ages the host. Normally when the host body started failing, Voldemort would just find a new one, except now he needed Quirrell's bodily access to Hogwarts. It would be much harder to find a new host with access to the third floor corridor and eventually to the stone; so Voldemort needed to extend Quirrell's life a bit. And if it left Quirrell with only a half-life, so much the better for Voldemort; it would be one less loose end he'd have to tie up later.
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Choices - May 22, 2006 10:28 am (#783 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Chemyst - I really like your take on the unicorn blood thing.
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Soul Mate for Sirius - May 22, 2006 11:08 am (#784 of 1297)
Counting the days until 6/20/09....
Chemyst, that's how I had always read that part of PS too! I always assumed the unicorn blood was to keep Quirrell alive so LV could keep using them. Of course, when you first read that passage, you don't know LV is inside someone, we're led to believe it's just LV, but once you find out he's possesing Quirrell, it makes sense that the unicorn blood wasn't for LV, but for Quirrell.
(I hope that made at least some sense! )
-Jenn
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haymoni - May 22, 2006 2:02 pm (#785 of 1297)
Maybe Quirrel was actually bending over backwards and Voldy was drinking the blood.
"Arch your back more, Quirrel, you fool! I'm not even close - Aargh!! You idiot! Now I need a nose job on top of a new body!!"
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virginiaelizabeth - May 22, 2006 7:04 pm (#786 of 1297)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
Yes I always looked at the situation as Quirrel needed it to survive, because of what Voldemort was doing to his body. In a sense, Voldemort was "killing" Quirrell and the Unicorn blood was keeping him alive.
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geauxtigers - May 24, 2006 7:47 pm (#787 of 1297)
Yum!
Yeah I can't say thats always been my take because I can't remember what I thought the first time I read it. Its been so long, but I think my first thought probably would have been that, but hey I don't have the world's greatest memory.
HA HA Haymoni!
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iloveHarry - May 30, 2006 7:24 am (#788 of 1297)
Edited by Denise P. May 30, 2006 7:32 pm
always thought it was to keep LV alive? am i wrong?
I always thought it was to keep LV alive? Am I wrong?
edit: iloveHarry, you post is in italics because you failed to capitalize your "I" As stated in the Philosophy of the Forum, netspeak such as "i" should not be used. Please use capital letters where they are intended to be used. ~Denise P
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Choices - May 30, 2006 11:51 am (#789 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
From: The Philosophy of the Forum
This Forum also expects its members to use proper English (that includes proper capitalization, spelling, and grammar), this means no Netspeak. We have many members who do not speak English as a first language and so proper English in posts is necessary to allow them to correctly understand what is being posted. (We understand that spelling and grammar mistakes often occur during posting.) The use of phrases such as “N E 1,” “prolly,” and “u” may not be understood or may be misunderstood by these members. If someone insists on using Netspeak, they will be asked politely to change their mode of speech. That kind of speech is appropriate in some places and inappropriate in others. This is one of the places where it's inappropriate.
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frogface - Jun 1, 2006 5:38 am (#790 of 1297)
I always thought it was sustaining Voldy. After all he says "Unicorn blood has strengthened me, these past few weeks...you saw faithful Quirrell drinking it for me in the Forest". - Pg 213 of the Bloomsbury version of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.
The key words there being me. He reffered to it strengthening himself, not Quirrell.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 8, 2006 3:07 am (#791 of 1297)
I posted this thought on the Dumbledore's Will thread but it goes here as well. I hope Dumbledore left something, a memory, about destroying Horcruxes. Destroying the ring cost Dumbledore his hand. It could have been worse. Without the help of a memory or such could destroying the horcruxes cost Ron and/or Hermione their lives?
Paper (as in the diary) was easy to pierce with the Basillisk fang, but the locket, cup and whatever may be much harder. I think the soul in the ring horcrux was destroyed without destroying the ring, the same may be the case for the other Horcruxes.
To sumarise, I could see the destruction of the Horcruxes bring about the deaths of Hermione and/or Ron.
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whitehound - Jun 24, 2006 1:21 pm (#792 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
I'm new to this list and I haven't got time to read through all the posts, so please forgive me if I repeat what somebody else has already said.
On her website, JKR has got a calendar, on which she lists day to day events in the wizarding world as they "happen". These include birthday greetings to various characters. The calendar was begun in May 2004 and a few new names were added on the second pass, but no new names have been added (and nobody taken off) since June 2005.
No birthday greetings are given to characters who are definitely on Voldemort's side (Bellatrix, Lucius etc.), even if they are major characters.
No birthday greetings are given to characters who are definitely dead (Sirius, James, Lily), even if they are major characters.
[Dumbledore isn't listed either, but that doesn't really bear on whether he did die at the end of HBP or not, since he is very old, and could well have been still alive in 1997 and yet dead by 2004. If JKR is going to pull a fast one and bring him back she wouldn't do anything so obvious as putting him among the birthday boys.]
The implication - and it is only an implication, but at the same time it's a pretty strong one - is that all those who get birthday greetings are intended to be still alive in 2006, and more or less on the side of the angels. That doesn't prove they won't be seriously injured - I suspect Ron will be sacrificed in the sense of losing a leg or similar - but they do pull through.
The people who get birthday wishes on the calendar are as follows:
Harry; Hermione; Molly, Arthur and *all* their children; Neville; Draco; Fleur; Lupin; Dobby; McGonagall; Snape; Hagrid; Flitwick; Sprout
Not being on the list doesn't prove a character is dead: JK may just not have assigned them a birthdate yet. But being on the list strongly implies that that character will survive.
Fairly major characters whose names are *not* listed include Luna, Moody, Tonks and the Creeveys, so I reckon the deaths will come from among them, as well as from more minor characters such as Cho, Dean, Shacklebolt, the Patils etc.. The unlisted Slytherins such as Pansy could be going to die or they could just be going to be Dark (or JK just hasn't given them birthdates yet, because they are bit-part players).
The only fly in the ointment is that JKR has said in interviews that we are going to learn a lot more about how ghosts are formed, and that happy people don't become ghosts. I'm not sure whether, if she were to kill e.g. Snape and turn him into a ghost, she would still send him birthday greetings or not.
However, she has also said that the killing of Sirius was not arbitrary but was vital to the plot and that we will find out more about it - and see more of the two-way mirrors - in Book 7, and also Nearly Headless Nick tells Harry that the DoM is conducting research on how ghosts are formed. Therefore, I reckon the ghost will be Sirius, artificially forced to become one by the Veil.
That would mean that Nearly Headless Nick's speech about how Sirius was too brave to have got stuck between earth and afterlife, as he himself did, was a red herring; because Sirius would have become a ghost not because he was scared to go on but because he was trapped into a DoM experiment.
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Choices - Jun 24, 2006 5:02 pm (#793 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Whitehound - "...also Nearly Headless Nick tells Harry that the DoM is conducting research on how ghosts are formed."
Actually, I think Nick is speaking of the secrets of death being studied, not how ghosts are formed.
"I know nothing of the secrets of death, Harry, for I chose my feeble imitation of life instead. I believe learned wizards study the matter in the Department of Mysteries____" Nearly Headless Nick
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whitehound - Jun 24, 2006 5:35 pm (#794 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
Possibly - but it sounds to me as though what they are studying is how that choice of an imitation of death is made. Or both.
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The One - Jun 25, 2006 3:45 am (#795 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
whithound
Evien if Ron was to die, I cannot imagine JKR give it away by failing to give his birthday. So I have doubts as to that reasoning.
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whitehound - Jun 25, 2006 8:48 am (#796 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
It would seem to be a give-away, yes. But, if she was being devious and giving birthday greetings even to people who are dead by 2004, in order to obscure the issue, you would expect she would give them to Sirius and Dumbledore and possibly to James and Lily as well.
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Mrs. D. - Jun 25, 2006 9:10 am (#797 of 1297)
The veil is used to study death in the DOM. Do they use it by talking somehow with those on the other side, or do they in fact travel through it? I am picturing a tether of some sort to pull them back when they are done exploring. Could someone tie themselves off and go in and get Sirius? I am picturing a scene from Poltergeist here.
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Magic Words - Jun 25, 2006 2:36 pm (#798 of 1297)
The question then, I imagine, is whether you're a lifeless body when they pull you back out. Or whether your end of the tether vanishes when it hits the veil.
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Pamzter - Jun 25, 2006 4:44 pm (#799 of 1297)
Perhaps someone with a silver hand can reach through and pull you back.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jun 26, 2006 10:02 am (#800 of 1297)
Doesn't Riddle have a birthday? I thought he did. How to interpret that would be complicated, would it not?
But anyway, I do not believe she is letting people know who is going to die by choosing birthdays. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I wish someone who knew about this theory had thought to ask her at some point.
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Ponine - Jun 26, 2006 12:01 pm (#801 of 1297)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
From yahoo today, quoting Channel 4: "One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die"
Please Jo, not my Ron!! (I hate to say it, but if I HAD to pick two, it would probably be Luna and Percy -- although he might be the one who got a reprieve... But maybe that was Snape... Neville? Draco, perhaps... hmmm Argh, I'm going crazy!!
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The One - Jun 26, 2006 12:50 pm (#802 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
It is hard to know for sure of course, but I wold expect that if Ron is to die, she will have know that from the outset.
I would expect this to be about more secondary characters than the trio members.
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Liz Mann - Jun 26, 2006 1:09 pm (#803 of 1297)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I really don't want Ron to die either! I don't know what to make of this new information. On the one hand I am horrified that two characters who were previously safe now aren't (and I'll be especially horrified if one of them turns out to be Ron or Hermione - particuarly Ron). On the other hand the fact that a character has been given a repreive gives me vague hope.
If Ron does die, Ponine, you and I are going to have to start a mourners club.
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wynnleaf - Jun 26, 2006 1:33 pm (#804 of 1297)
Since she's planned the books for so long, it seems a bit odd that two major characters would be the ones who she didn't plan on dying, but who will now die. It seems as though that would be likely to mean a major plot change, right? Of course, not necessarily -- I'm just being hopeful. Same goes for the character that got a "reprieve." It those were major characters, wouldn't that mean larger changes to the plot? Maybe not.
It is mostly only the major characters who get birthdays listed on her website.
I do expect major characters to die. But I hope the likelihood of the changed character deaths to be related only to minor characters. Why would it matter to me since we don't know which major characters live or die? Well, I think it's because I feel better thinking that whoever she's going to have die (of the major characters) has been in her plan all along and their deaths are integral to the plot. I wouldn't want her to kill off a major character in a sort of arbitrary fashion.
It's interesting that JKR thought about authors killing off their main character in the belief that no future author could continue the story after the original author is long gone. That wouldn't work for the HP world. JKR created a world where there are so many opportunities for magic to change things, all it would take some future author is a little judicious use of a time-turner to get the ball rolling again.
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The One - Jun 26, 2006 1:44 pm (#805 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
I will contradict myself.
Remeber that when the plans was originally made Jo was very much a beginner in the art of writing. She just might have realised at a late pint that certain of her plot plans simply will not work if done as intended.
So she may have changed her plans even for central characters.
I still doubt that she has changed her ultimate plan for Harry's own survival or lack thereof.
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Ponine - Jun 26, 2006 2:34 pm (#806 of 1297)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Liz -- YES!! Most definitely... (In some sad way, I think I already started -- I went through this with both OOTP and HBP as well -- I read like a maniac just to make sure that my won-won is safe... I guess my rationale is that Percy might have been the one who is reprieved. And Ron -- Well, I've always worried about Ron -- and he is probably the one character I will not accept losing. At this point, I'm going through all of them, tentatively landing on Minerva and Neville/Luna/Draco or maybe Arthur. My worry is that if Percy is reprieved, it just seems likely that one of the Weasleys will go, and I can't see it being one of the twins, too irrelevant if its Charlie or Bill, I don't think it would be Ginny or Molly, and then -- well, then it's just Ron and Arthur left... My only feeble hope is that as Jo has pretty ruthlessly killed off everyone Harry has ever loved, she might let him keep Ginny, Ron and Hermione (and Molly)... Right?!?!?! (PLEASE someone tell me that makes sense... ) I feel crazy for rambling like this, but it hoenstly makes me feel dreadful...
Edit: The One, that does seem to make sense to me too -- she is a very different writer now, and the story has deveoped, so some plot lines may definitely have changed -- HEY -- maybe the one repreived is actually Dumbledore???? Hmm.... Things to ponder... :sniffles and wanders off to find dinner:
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Amilia Smith - Jun 26, 2006 3:27 pm (#807 of 1297)
I do think that these deaths must be of at least semi-major characters if they necessitate a change in the final chapter. Like she said in the interview, the bad guys don't just target extras. Also, she's well into the last book. More people dying probably does not matter so much in terms of changing the plot. As long as both Harry and Voldemort are both alive for the final battle, she's good. She doesn't have to worry about keeping things on track for the next book.
As to who these deaths actually belong to, I am not going to hazard a guess.
Mills.
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whitehound - Jun 26, 2006 3:49 pm (#808 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
If I'm right about the calendar birthdays, then I suspect that the character she intended to kill and then reprieved was Tonks - since killing Tonks would be a rotten thing to do to Remus. But who is now going to die who wasn't before? Have to watch that calendar and see if anybody gets taken off the list....
Do we know that the characters she is talking about killing or not killing are on "our" side - or could it refer to people like Lucius and Bellatrix?
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timrew - Jun 26, 2006 4:21 pm (#809 of 1297)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Maybe Tonks and Remus..........?
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Choices - Jun 26, 2006 5:17 pm (#810 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Die - "Doesn't Riddle have a birthday?"
He was born at the London orphanage on New Year's Eve.
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geauxtigers - Jun 26, 2006 5:36 pm (#811 of 1297)
Yum!
Do we know that the characters she is talking about killing or not killing are on "our" side - or could it refer to people like Lucius and Bellatrix?
I think this is just as much a possiblity. We are all assuming that they are on the Order's side, when they very well could be on the DE's side. I think we've come to believe that when she says shes killed someone, its a main character, granted we have good reason for it, but for this I think I'll try to see the glass as half full rather than half empty.
That said, I have a feeling they are good guys, or one Order member, one Death Eater.... **wonders off trying to be optimistic**
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whitehound - Jun 26, 2006 6:21 pm (#812 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
Voldemort has a birthday in canon - 31st December 1926 - but he *doesn't* get birthday greetings on the calendar.
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Vanessa Pineda - Jun 26, 2006 7:18 pm (#813 of 1297)
I hope it isn't Ron, either, but I think it might be one of the Weasley's for sure, and I think maybe Arthur or Molly, but I really hope that it isn't them, either! It does make sense to me, Ponine, that she'd let Harry have one of the ones you mentioned =)
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Finn BV - Jun 26, 2006 7:55 pm (#814 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Don't forget that she was just talking about three characters here: one who was going to die but won't, and two who weren't going to but… erm… will. That doesn't rule out others. So it simply sets the ground that two characters will die in Book 7. That doesn't come as much of a surprise, so I don't think there's much to speculate about, that's new at least.
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azi - Jun 27, 2006 4:05 am (#815 of 1297)
Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
At *least* two pretty major characters will die. I'm betting there will be more deaths than that.
I think Tonks and Luna could be out, which will be a shame because they are two of my favourite characters. Lupin, I feel, will stay alive simply to suffer and lose more people he cares about (hmm, that sounds pessimistic).
Are there many major Death Eater characters apart from Snape, the Malfoys, Bellatrix and Fenrir Greyback? We only hear the others mentioned really.
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TheSaint - Jun 27, 2006 4:18 am (#816 of 1297)
Could someone show me where the characters are defined as major or minor. My silly local news just reported 'two major characters will die.' The misquoting is driving me crazy! Only article I have seen says minor changes..one lives, two die. Nothing defined. Someone please point me in the right direction?
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scoop2172000 - Jun 27, 2006 4:47 am (#817 of 1297)
My theory is that Fred and George will die. I intepreted her comments about two more people dying as meaning that a pair will die.
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Snuffles - Jun 27, 2006 4:51 am (#818 of 1297)
Olivia
Edited Jun 27, 2006 5:34 am
I do hope it's not Gred and Forge! I realise there is a war going on, but the wizarding world needs a bit of fun and laughter in it. Without those two, it will be extremely depressing
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haymoni - Jun 27, 2006 5:32 am (#819 of 1297)
I'm guessing it is Lupin and Tonks. Remus has just suffered so much - he's got to keep finding someone to make that potion - just put him out of his misery. Tonks will die avenging him. It would work the other way around. Tonks gets killed and Lupin dies after.
Fabian & Gideon died - I suppose Fred & George could, but I think it would be more tragic if only one of them died.
Boy - I'm really morbid today!!
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LooneyLuna - Jun 27, 2006 6:25 am (#820 of 1297)
We've never seen birthday greetings for Fleur either. My guess is Tonks & Hagrid dying with Luna or Fleur getting the reprieve.
I would hate to see Fred and George go, but at least they'd go out in a blaze of glory.
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Esther Rose - Jun 27, 2006 6:41 am (#821 of 1297)
Well, I too think it may be a pair. My guess is that it might be Ron's Parents, Molly and Arthur. This would give the 7 Weasley children more incentive to fight as a unit.(Not that they needed one but still.) Percy may get the reprieve that comes with a humbling moment. I can see Molly fighting to save Percy's life and Arthur fighting in an attempt to save Molly's life.
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The One - Jun 27, 2006 8:45 am (#822 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
What worries me a bit is ther reason for the changes. Has she herself decided that a different ending will be better as she was writng?
Or has she listened to the fans?
Some of you are afraid of Ron dying. I hope that if Ron does survive, it is because it was planned that way all the time, or that she idependently has decided to spare him for plot and/or symbolic reasons.
What would be horrible is if she spares him because a lot of fans wants her to! It cannot possibly be a ggo story if the author does not tell HER story.
Anohet question that is a bit worrying is: Will the change render some of the clues and forshadowing in the earlier books worthless? It would not be fun if readers correctlty concludes that some details indicates that a given character will die, only to be proven wrong because the author changed her mind. That would make forums like this pointless. (Some would say they are poinless in anycase, but that is another discussion.)
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Elanor - Jun 27, 2006 9:02 am (#823 of 1297)
The One: "Anohet question that is a bit worrying is: Will the change render some of the clues and forshadowing in the earlier books worthless? It would not be fun if readers correctlty concludes that some details indicates that a given character will die, only to be proven wrong because the author changed her mind."
I am not worried about that because clues may apply to symbolical deaths as well as to real deaths and JKR has already used "symbolical deaths" quite often. For example, Ron's symbolical death in PS, during the chess game: this could foreshadow his real death in book 7 but the symbolism would work with another symbolical death too! Everything depends on how things are written for the symbolism to work, and I do trust Jo!
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haymoni - Jun 27, 2006 9:29 am (#824 of 1297)
I think her comments about loose ends in the side stories may have affected who lives/dies.
It might just be that the story just doesn't work - like Hermione having a sister, the Weasley cousin or Dean's backstory.
The overall plot wasn't changed, just a side story.
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geauxtigers - Jun 27, 2006 10:31 am (#825 of 1297)
Yum!
Haymoni, that is why I tend to think that it is not the trio or Hagrid or Luna and Neville. I think that is will be someone who is important enough to have a place in the final chapter, but not someone who would dramactically change the plot. I think she said a few minor changes were made to the last chaper, so that makes me feel that its not to big of characters. I think its safe to say that its not the trio, because that would be major as the story really revoles around them for the most part. I think it will be someone like Arthur and Molly. I don't think she would kill Gred and Forge, even less likly one of them. That is just downright cruel and not really necessary IMO. But I think it'll be a middle character, someone who is important, but not in the major plot line. But then again, I could be as wrong as Humphrey Belcher and his cheese cauldron!
EDIT: Choices, I agree, its though. She always words things so we never know what to think. Sneaky Sneaky! This is why I think that its going to be a middle man. I think we can say that the Trio is safe, because they are such major characters surly she has had their fates planned from day one. I don't see her changing something so big. They may very well end up dying, but it might not be these two deaths she has changed. I would think that would require much more than "a few changes" to the final chapter.
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Choices - Jun 27, 2006 10:51 am (#826 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
In my newspaper article, JKR says....."The final chapter is hidden away, although it's now changed very slightly. One character got a reprieve. But I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die. A price has to be paid. We are dealing with pure evil here. They don't target extras, do they? They go for the main characters. Well, I do."
I don't know what to think or who to think, but it doesn't sound good to me. :-(
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colbow - Jun 27, 2006 11:27 am (#827 of 1297)
Ginny defending Harry, perhaps?
I think if Harry loses more people who love him he just may go off the rocker... though I would love to see Ginny and Harry live happily ever after.I don't think it will be Harry or Voldermort too obvious...
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haymoni - Jun 27, 2006 11:29 am (#828 of 1297)
Yes - this is the opposite of Star Trek where the "red shirts" always die.
I guess we have to define "Main". In my muddled mind, there is a difference between "Main" and "Major".
I see "Major" characters as The Trio, Dumbledore, Snape, Draco, etc.
"Main" characters could be those that have appeared in all or most of the books - The Dursleys, Neville, Minerva, Lucius, The Weasleys, Wormtail, Lupin... - or characters that dominated 1 book - Sirius, Umbridge, Dobby...
"Minor" characters could be Dean, Seamus, Crabbe, Goyle, Fudge.
We just don't know who Jo thinks is "main".
I think JKR felt Sirius was a "main" character. Folks were upset that he died. I'm sure we'd feel the same if it was Minerva or Lupin, but I think the Trio might be considered "Major" - not just "Main" and losing Dumbledore was bad enough.
I'm trying to remain positive about this!
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geauxtigers - Jun 27, 2006 11:37 am (#829 of 1297)
Yum!
Haymoni, that is how I feel too. I like how you explained it! Much better than my attempt too. I am trying to be optimistic about this too. It could also be people from the DE's side, after all there are many main characters on that side too. We shouldn't look as this as necessarily a bad thing, Lucious and Bella could die even if she intended for them not to in the begining and Percy gets the reprive. **Tries to add some positive material to the cauldron....**
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Magic Words - Jun 27, 2006 11:49 am (#830 of 1297)
When she says "we're dealing with pure evil" and "they go for the main characters," unfortunately, that sounds to me as if the DE's are the ones doing the killing here. It could be Voldemort killing another DE, but I think it's a lot more likely to be Order members who die.
Haymoni, very good point about main vs. major.
Edit after Haymoni's next post: I don't think what you've said indicates denial, unless you're trying to imply that main characters are at risk while major ones aren't. I'd have liked that to be the case; unfortunately, Dumbledore has already proven it wrong.
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haymoni - Jun 27, 2006 11:53 am (#831 of 1297)
or maybe I'm just in denial!!
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The One - Jun 27, 2006 12:34 pm (#832 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
So far, the deaths has been of two types:
One major death for each of the last three books.
An increasing number of deaths among remote characters to show us it is a war going on.
What we have not had is loads of deaths among semiclose characters "just to make a point". Thus I kind of doubt the has suddely decided to kill Seamus and Dean.
The three major deaths was:
Cederic, a student not to close to Harry, that was introduced in book 3 in order to die in book 4.
Sirius, Harry's guardian and father figure. But still he has not spent very much time with Harry, nor had that much page space.
Dumbledore, Harry's mentor and headmaster, that has guided Harry through his 6 years of coming to term with his destiny, and been with us since his silly speech in PS.
Do we see a pattern? The major death is coming closer for each book. Who will die in book 7 if this trend is to continue? Will Arthur dying really have more impact than Dumblodore? Or Molly?
Hardly. Are we speaking hextet death her? Or even trio death?
Very possible.
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haymoni - Jun 27, 2006 12:42 pm (#833 of 1297)
It could be Hagrid, Scrimgeour, Kingsley, Moody.
We were bothered by Madame Bones for crying out loud!
I'd rather see Moody get it than Hagrid, but I'd still feel bad about it.
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Magic Words - Jun 27, 2006 12:45 pm (#834 of 1297)
I had noticed that too, about the death getting closer in each book.
I feel kind of bad even saying this, but if we need to have a trio death, I hope it's Harry. If only so he doesn't have to put up with losing Ron or Hermione. And also because through the whole series Ron and Hermione have been something of a unit, even before they were a ship. Killing off one and leaving the other alone just seems... unfinished, in some way. Killing off both is just too horrible to contemplate.
But then there's Ginny, who has liked Harry since her first year... I don't know, I would be okay with her moving on and ending up with Neville, if she hadn't liked Harry since her first year... you get the impression that even he dies and she moves on she'll never get over him (because she hasn't managed to so far).
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Die Zimtzicke - Jun 27, 2006 2:34 pm (#835 of 1297)
I'd be thrilled if Ginny died, since she's boring to me, and there are so many Weasleys so involved in the war, I think some of them have to die. I just don't think she's well written, so I wouldn't mind a bit if she died.
However, I have always thought Harry might have to die to defeat Voldemort. Aren't we dealing with MORE than two deaths though? She said in an earlier interview that she had already written one death. My instinct tells me these changes have happened since then.
I could be wrong, of course... And yes, I think the deaths she's talking about are good guys.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 27, 2006 3:43 pm (#836 of 1297)
. One character got a reprieve. But I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die. A price has to be paid.
..A price has to be paid? This brings to mind unpaid debts.Perhaps she is talking of Wormtail and Ron or Mr.Weasley- Harry has saved both.Gee..I hope not. I hope the reprieve is Dumbledore but she may also be referring to Snape.This is getting us nowhere!It could be anybody.
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Finn BV - Jun 27, 2006 4:04 pm (#837 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
We were bothered by Madame Bones for crying out loud! --haymoni
So true!!! Don't forget, these two deaths we're getting all worried about could be Scrimgeour, or Umbridge, or whoever.
And really, we've got to settle down about this whole reprieve/death business. Think about it. Before her interview yesterday, would you have been surprised if you were handed Book 7 and you read that two major or main characters died? I certainly wouldn't have been. We found out that one character who was intended to die will not and two who weren't, will. Does that truly surprise you? That two main/major characters will die? This is a battle versus Voldemort, people. It's Book 7. I have to say, I am completely unchanged by anything she said yesterday. We learned, IMO, nothing.
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geauxtigers - Jun 27, 2006 5:25 pm (#838 of 1297)
Yum!
So true!!! Don't forget, these two deaths we're getting all worried about could be Scrimgeour, or Umbridge, or whoever.
Finn, I agree, since it could be anyone I don't think theres much to it. It is book 7 , its a war, people are going to die. I think that we are getting too "un-hopeful" about this. The point is we are worrying over something that ought not be fretted over. I'm not surprised just curious as to who it could be so in the mean time I guess its fun to talk about!
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Choices - Jun 27, 2006 5:56 pm (#839 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I have, for some time now, thought that Harry might almost die or appear to die in the end, but somehow be brought back. After what JKR said recently, I am getting fearful that Harry might buy the farm for good. I would just hate that and I would be terribly disappointed that Harry has suffered so much in his short life and then he just dies. That would be seriously rotten!!! I want to be able to finish this series and spend years imagining Harry living the good life, happy and fulfilled by his family and career. Please JKR, don't crush my lovely vision of Harry riding off into the sunset, happy and alive.
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MTW - Jun 27, 2006 8:09 pm (#840 of 1297)
I'm leaning to the Dursleys, with Dudley surviving. As Die stated before. The stay with the Dursleys and the wedding will be two obvious places for ambush. The Dursley home has the least wizards around to fight back. Ron and Hermione will give Harry and Dudley a chance to escape.
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Finn BV - Jun 27, 2006 8:20 pm (#841 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I can't imagine JKR would be so careless as that to walk so closely to the edge of saying Harry's fate. I must really stress that I would be surprised if only two good characters died, and I have thought this for a while, ever since I got into the series two or three years ago, not since yesterday afternoon. So JKR saying two characters will bite the bullet is completely irrelevant.
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Pamzter - Jun 27, 2006 8:54 pm (#842 of 1297)
It's not just that two characters die, I don't think that's a surprise at all -- it's that it is principal characters that had not been originally planned upon. That catches everyone's imagination and makes them stop and rethink their own ideas. I don't think she's being careless, I think she and her publicists are starting the ball rolling on 7's build up. I'm expecting something new to be said every 6-8 weeks now that will stir everyone up and make all the forums (fora?) start popping with excitement. Can't wait.
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Finn BV - Jun 27, 2006 9:13 pm (#843 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Pamzter, I understand your point. Thanks for putting it in those words.
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Solitaire - Jun 27, 2006 10:29 pm (#844 of 1297)
Two characters ... sheesh! I hope it isn't Gred-n-Forge! It would break my heart if either or both of the Weasley twins died. But oh, Finn ... if only it could be Umbridge! I probably shouldn't say she deserves to die ... but she is one nasty piece of work.
I really believe there will be more deaths--good guys and bad--who are more peripheral characters that we know mainly by name (such as Fortescue and Ollivander). The comment about debts to be paid ... yes, that does sound as though it could refer to Wormtail. It might also refer to Snape's life-debt to James--although I somehow think that has probably been paid--or even something connected to the Unbreakable Vow. It's really hard to know.
Solitaire
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scoop2172000 - Jun 28, 2006 5:07 am (#845 of 1297)
Follow-up on my recent post theorizing that Fred and George would die ... I've been giving it some thought, and I've concluded that Ginny is the one getting the reprieve, and that Jo had meant for one of the Weasley kids close to Harry to die, so she ended up picking a pair of them, the twins.
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wynnleaf - Jun 28, 2006 5:27 am (#846 of 1297)
I think we need to get the quotes right.
Jo: The final chapter is hidden away, although it has now changed very slightly. One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die ...
Judy: Two much loved ones?
Jo: Well, you know. A price has to be paid. We are dealing with pure evil. They don't target the extras do they? They go for the main characters, or I do.
It's "a price to be paid," not a "debt." There's a difference. From her next sentence, it sounds like she means that to defeat evil you have to pay a price. I really don't think she was talking about people paying on life debts -- that's more payment for the past. Instead, this is paying the price to destroy evil.
Btw, Quick Quotes has Part One of the transcript up.
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Esther Rose - Jun 28, 2006 6:52 am (#847 of 1297)
I thought the quote was more along the line that one character's life was worth two other characters. Which is why I am thinking that those three characters have some sort of relationship with each other. (No they don't have to be related just close.)
But like Finn said, this is war. We did not expect all of the remaining good (or bad) characters to make it to the end of the book. So no, a clue was not necessarily given away in the interview.
And as for whether Harry survives the end of the book or not. I read the transcript on Mugglenet. I did not get the impression that she was implying the death of Harry (or that Harry will survive.)
Harry's survival is one of many questions keeping us glued to the HP series. I don't think JKR would even hint in one way or the other whether HP meets his own death or not.
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Liz Mann - Jun 28, 2006 7:20 am (#848 of 1297)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Harry's survival is one of many questions keeping us glued to the HP series. I don't think JKR would even hint in one way or the other whether HP meets his own death or not.
Exactly. One of the things that spoils a lot of children's stories is that you know they're going to turn out well in the end. Which means there's no tension, only a curiosity as to how it's going to turn out well. On the other hand, knowing the ending will be happy means that the story is a feel-good story, which is always good for a dull day, but not good if you're writing an epic. J.K. might be planning this big, extremely tense scene for the end of book seven, and it's going to have very little impact if the readers already know that Harry is going to survive, isn't it? She wants the readers on the edge of their seat, biting their nails, getting up and pacing the room, taking deep breaths etc.
I've just had a thought. When we think of who's going to die and who isn't, does anyone here ever think about the non-human characters? Like Dobby? He is a character, after all, and he might die.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 28, 2006 7:40 am (#849 of 1297)
It's "a price to be paid," not a "debt." There's a difference. From her next sentence, it sounds like she means that to defeat evil you have to pay a price.Wynnleaf
Thanks for responding.I was hoping for a clarification and what you have said makes perfect sense.Two will die while battling evil? I still see some sacrifices that could possibly happen.I could see a few people willing to take a bullet for Harry.Mr.Weasley and Hagrid for instance.
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haymoni - Jun 28, 2006 7:51 am (#850 of 1297)
I took her statement to mean that there aren't just going to be 2 people killed.
Perhaps she had intended 10 to die - 1 got a reprieve, but 2 more ended up dying so now there are 11 total.
If that's the case...unfortunately it could be Hagrid, Tonks, Lupin, Moody, a few Weasleys...
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
From yahoo today, quoting Channel 4: "One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die"
Please Jo, not my Ron!! (I hate to say it, but if I HAD to pick two, it would probably be Luna and Percy -- although he might be the one who got a reprieve... But maybe that was Snape... Neville? Draco, perhaps... hmmm Argh, I'm going crazy!!
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The One - Jun 26, 2006 12:50 pm (#802 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
It is hard to know for sure of course, but I wold expect that if Ron is to die, she will have know that from the outset.
I would expect this to be about more secondary characters than the trio members.
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Liz Mann - Jun 26, 2006 1:09 pm (#803 of 1297)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I really don't want Ron to die either! I don't know what to make of this new information. On the one hand I am horrified that two characters who were previously safe now aren't (and I'll be especially horrified if one of them turns out to be Ron or Hermione - particuarly Ron). On the other hand the fact that a character has been given a repreive gives me vague hope.
If Ron does die, Ponine, you and I are going to have to start a mourners club.
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wynnleaf - Jun 26, 2006 1:33 pm (#804 of 1297)
Since she's planned the books for so long, it seems a bit odd that two major characters would be the ones who she didn't plan on dying, but who will now die. It seems as though that would be likely to mean a major plot change, right? Of course, not necessarily -- I'm just being hopeful. Same goes for the character that got a "reprieve." It those were major characters, wouldn't that mean larger changes to the plot? Maybe not.
It is mostly only the major characters who get birthdays listed on her website.
I do expect major characters to die. But I hope the likelihood of the changed character deaths to be related only to minor characters. Why would it matter to me since we don't know which major characters live or die? Well, I think it's because I feel better thinking that whoever she's going to have die (of the major characters) has been in her plan all along and their deaths are integral to the plot. I wouldn't want her to kill off a major character in a sort of arbitrary fashion.
It's interesting that JKR thought about authors killing off their main character in the belief that no future author could continue the story after the original author is long gone. That wouldn't work for the HP world. JKR created a world where there are so many opportunities for magic to change things, all it would take some future author is a little judicious use of a time-turner to get the ball rolling again.
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The One - Jun 26, 2006 1:44 pm (#805 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
I will contradict myself.
Remeber that when the plans was originally made Jo was very much a beginner in the art of writing. She just might have realised at a late pint that certain of her plot plans simply will not work if done as intended.
So she may have changed her plans even for central characters.
I still doubt that she has changed her ultimate plan for Harry's own survival or lack thereof.
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Ponine - Jun 26, 2006 2:34 pm (#806 of 1297)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Liz -- YES!! Most definitely... (In some sad way, I think I already started -- I went through this with both OOTP and HBP as well -- I read like a maniac just to make sure that my won-won is safe... I guess my rationale is that Percy might have been the one who is reprieved. And Ron -- Well, I've always worried about Ron -- and he is probably the one character I will not accept losing. At this point, I'm going through all of them, tentatively landing on Minerva and Neville/Luna/Draco or maybe Arthur. My worry is that if Percy is reprieved, it just seems likely that one of the Weasleys will go, and I can't see it being one of the twins, too irrelevant if its Charlie or Bill, I don't think it would be Ginny or Molly, and then -- well, then it's just Ron and Arthur left... My only feeble hope is that as Jo has pretty ruthlessly killed off everyone Harry has ever loved, she might let him keep Ginny, Ron and Hermione (and Molly)... Right?!?!?! (PLEASE someone tell me that makes sense... ) I feel crazy for rambling like this, but it hoenstly makes me feel dreadful...
Edit: The One, that does seem to make sense to me too -- she is a very different writer now, and the story has deveoped, so some plot lines may definitely have changed -- HEY -- maybe the one repreived is actually Dumbledore???? Hmm.... Things to ponder... :sniffles and wanders off to find dinner:
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Amilia Smith - Jun 26, 2006 3:27 pm (#807 of 1297)
I do think that these deaths must be of at least semi-major characters if they necessitate a change in the final chapter. Like she said in the interview, the bad guys don't just target extras. Also, she's well into the last book. More people dying probably does not matter so much in terms of changing the plot. As long as both Harry and Voldemort are both alive for the final battle, she's good. She doesn't have to worry about keeping things on track for the next book.
As to who these deaths actually belong to, I am not going to hazard a guess.
Mills.
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whitehound - Jun 26, 2006 3:49 pm (#808 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
If I'm right about the calendar birthdays, then I suspect that the character she intended to kill and then reprieved was Tonks - since killing Tonks would be a rotten thing to do to Remus. But who is now going to die who wasn't before? Have to watch that calendar and see if anybody gets taken off the list....
Do we know that the characters she is talking about killing or not killing are on "our" side - or could it refer to people like Lucius and Bellatrix?
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timrew - Jun 26, 2006 4:21 pm (#809 of 1297)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Maybe Tonks and Remus..........?
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Choices - Jun 26, 2006 5:17 pm (#810 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Die - "Doesn't Riddle have a birthday?"
He was born at the London orphanage on New Year's Eve.
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geauxtigers - Jun 26, 2006 5:36 pm (#811 of 1297)
Yum!
Do we know that the characters she is talking about killing or not killing are on "our" side - or could it refer to people like Lucius and Bellatrix?
I think this is just as much a possiblity. We are all assuming that they are on the Order's side, when they very well could be on the DE's side. I think we've come to believe that when she says shes killed someone, its a main character, granted we have good reason for it, but for this I think I'll try to see the glass as half full rather than half empty.
That said, I have a feeling they are good guys, or one Order member, one Death Eater.... **wonders off trying to be optimistic**
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whitehound - Jun 26, 2006 6:21 pm (#812 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
Voldemort has a birthday in canon - 31st December 1926 - but he *doesn't* get birthday greetings on the calendar.
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Vanessa Pineda - Jun 26, 2006 7:18 pm (#813 of 1297)
I hope it isn't Ron, either, but I think it might be one of the Weasley's for sure, and I think maybe Arthur or Molly, but I really hope that it isn't them, either! It does make sense to me, Ponine, that she'd let Harry have one of the ones you mentioned =)
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Finn BV - Jun 26, 2006 7:55 pm (#814 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Don't forget that she was just talking about three characters here: one who was going to die but won't, and two who weren't going to but… erm… will. That doesn't rule out others. So it simply sets the ground that two characters will die in Book 7. That doesn't come as much of a surprise, so I don't think there's much to speculate about, that's new at least.
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azi - Jun 27, 2006 4:05 am (#815 of 1297)
Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
At *least* two pretty major characters will die. I'm betting there will be more deaths than that.
I think Tonks and Luna could be out, which will be a shame because they are two of my favourite characters. Lupin, I feel, will stay alive simply to suffer and lose more people he cares about (hmm, that sounds pessimistic).
Are there many major Death Eater characters apart from Snape, the Malfoys, Bellatrix and Fenrir Greyback? We only hear the others mentioned really.
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TheSaint - Jun 27, 2006 4:18 am (#816 of 1297)
Could someone show me where the characters are defined as major or minor. My silly local news just reported 'two major characters will die.' The misquoting is driving me crazy! Only article I have seen says minor changes..one lives, two die. Nothing defined. Someone please point me in the right direction?
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scoop2172000 - Jun 27, 2006 4:47 am (#817 of 1297)
My theory is that Fred and George will die. I intepreted her comments about two more people dying as meaning that a pair will die.
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Snuffles - Jun 27, 2006 4:51 am (#818 of 1297)
Olivia
Edited Jun 27, 2006 5:34 am
I do hope it's not Gred and Forge! I realise there is a war going on, but the wizarding world needs a bit of fun and laughter in it. Without those two, it will be extremely depressing
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haymoni - Jun 27, 2006 5:32 am (#819 of 1297)
I'm guessing it is Lupin and Tonks. Remus has just suffered so much - he's got to keep finding someone to make that potion - just put him out of his misery. Tonks will die avenging him. It would work the other way around. Tonks gets killed and Lupin dies after.
Fabian & Gideon died - I suppose Fred & George could, but I think it would be more tragic if only one of them died.
Boy - I'm really morbid today!!
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LooneyLuna - Jun 27, 2006 6:25 am (#820 of 1297)
We've never seen birthday greetings for Fleur either. My guess is Tonks & Hagrid dying with Luna or Fleur getting the reprieve.
I would hate to see Fred and George go, but at least they'd go out in a blaze of glory.
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Esther Rose - Jun 27, 2006 6:41 am (#821 of 1297)
Well, I too think it may be a pair. My guess is that it might be Ron's Parents, Molly and Arthur. This would give the 7 Weasley children more incentive to fight as a unit.(Not that they needed one but still.) Percy may get the reprieve that comes with a humbling moment. I can see Molly fighting to save Percy's life and Arthur fighting in an attempt to save Molly's life.
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The One - Jun 27, 2006 8:45 am (#822 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
What worries me a bit is ther reason for the changes. Has she herself decided that a different ending will be better as she was writng?
Or has she listened to the fans?
Some of you are afraid of Ron dying. I hope that if Ron does survive, it is because it was planned that way all the time, or that she idependently has decided to spare him for plot and/or symbolic reasons.
What would be horrible is if she spares him because a lot of fans wants her to! It cannot possibly be a ggo story if the author does not tell HER story.
Anohet question that is a bit worrying is: Will the change render some of the clues and forshadowing in the earlier books worthless? It would not be fun if readers correctlty concludes that some details indicates that a given character will die, only to be proven wrong because the author changed her mind. That would make forums like this pointless. (Some would say they are poinless in anycase, but that is another discussion.)
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Elanor - Jun 27, 2006 9:02 am (#823 of 1297)
The One: "Anohet question that is a bit worrying is: Will the change render some of the clues and forshadowing in the earlier books worthless? It would not be fun if readers correctlty concludes that some details indicates that a given character will die, only to be proven wrong because the author changed her mind."
I am not worried about that because clues may apply to symbolical deaths as well as to real deaths and JKR has already used "symbolical deaths" quite often. For example, Ron's symbolical death in PS, during the chess game: this could foreshadow his real death in book 7 but the symbolism would work with another symbolical death too! Everything depends on how things are written for the symbolism to work, and I do trust Jo!
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haymoni - Jun 27, 2006 9:29 am (#824 of 1297)
I think her comments about loose ends in the side stories may have affected who lives/dies.
It might just be that the story just doesn't work - like Hermione having a sister, the Weasley cousin or Dean's backstory.
The overall plot wasn't changed, just a side story.
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geauxtigers - Jun 27, 2006 10:31 am (#825 of 1297)
Yum!
Haymoni, that is why I tend to think that it is not the trio or Hagrid or Luna and Neville. I think that is will be someone who is important enough to have a place in the final chapter, but not someone who would dramactically change the plot. I think she said a few minor changes were made to the last chaper, so that makes me feel that its not to big of characters. I think its safe to say that its not the trio, because that would be major as the story really revoles around them for the most part. I think it will be someone like Arthur and Molly. I don't think she would kill Gred and Forge, even less likly one of them. That is just downright cruel and not really necessary IMO. But I think it'll be a middle character, someone who is important, but not in the major plot line. But then again, I could be as wrong as Humphrey Belcher and his cheese cauldron!
EDIT: Choices, I agree, its though. She always words things so we never know what to think. Sneaky Sneaky! This is why I think that its going to be a middle man. I think we can say that the Trio is safe, because they are such major characters surly she has had their fates planned from day one. I don't see her changing something so big. They may very well end up dying, but it might not be these two deaths she has changed. I would think that would require much more than "a few changes" to the final chapter.
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Choices - Jun 27, 2006 10:51 am (#826 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
In my newspaper article, JKR says....."The final chapter is hidden away, although it's now changed very slightly. One character got a reprieve. But I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die. A price has to be paid. We are dealing with pure evil here. They don't target extras, do they? They go for the main characters. Well, I do."
I don't know what to think or who to think, but it doesn't sound good to me. :-(
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colbow - Jun 27, 2006 11:27 am (#827 of 1297)
Ginny defending Harry, perhaps?
I think if Harry loses more people who love him he just may go off the rocker... though I would love to see Ginny and Harry live happily ever after.I don't think it will be Harry or Voldermort too obvious...
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haymoni - Jun 27, 2006 11:29 am (#828 of 1297)
Yes - this is the opposite of Star Trek where the "red shirts" always die.
I guess we have to define "Main". In my muddled mind, there is a difference between "Main" and "Major".
I see "Major" characters as The Trio, Dumbledore, Snape, Draco, etc.
"Main" characters could be those that have appeared in all or most of the books - The Dursleys, Neville, Minerva, Lucius, The Weasleys, Wormtail, Lupin... - or characters that dominated 1 book - Sirius, Umbridge, Dobby...
"Minor" characters could be Dean, Seamus, Crabbe, Goyle, Fudge.
We just don't know who Jo thinks is "main".
I think JKR felt Sirius was a "main" character. Folks were upset that he died. I'm sure we'd feel the same if it was Minerva or Lupin, but I think the Trio might be considered "Major" - not just "Main" and losing Dumbledore was bad enough.
I'm trying to remain positive about this!
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geauxtigers - Jun 27, 2006 11:37 am (#829 of 1297)
Yum!
Haymoni, that is how I feel too. I like how you explained it! Much better than my attempt too. I am trying to be optimistic about this too. It could also be people from the DE's side, after all there are many main characters on that side too. We shouldn't look as this as necessarily a bad thing, Lucious and Bella could die even if she intended for them not to in the begining and Percy gets the reprive. **Tries to add some positive material to the cauldron....**
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Magic Words - Jun 27, 2006 11:49 am (#830 of 1297)
When she says "we're dealing with pure evil" and "they go for the main characters," unfortunately, that sounds to me as if the DE's are the ones doing the killing here. It could be Voldemort killing another DE, but I think it's a lot more likely to be Order members who die.
Haymoni, very good point about main vs. major.
Edit after Haymoni's next post: I don't think what you've said indicates denial, unless you're trying to imply that main characters are at risk while major ones aren't. I'd have liked that to be the case; unfortunately, Dumbledore has already proven it wrong.
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haymoni - Jun 27, 2006 11:53 am (#831 of 1297)
or maybe I'm just in denial!!
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The One - Jun 27, 2006 12:34 pm (#832 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
So far, the deaths has been of two types:
One major death for each of the last three books.
An increasing number of deaths among remote characters to show us it is a war going on.
What we have not had is loads of deaths among semiclose characters "just to make a point". Thus I kind of doubt the has suddely decided to kill Seamus and Dean.
The three major deaths was:
Cederic, a student not to close to Harry, that was introduced in book 3 in order to die in book 4.
Sirius, Harry's guardian and father figure. But still he has not spent very much time with Harry, nor had that much page space.
Dumbledore, Harry's mentor and headmaster, that has guided Harry through his 6 years of coming to term with his destiny, and been with us since his silly speech in PS.
Do we see a pattern? The major death is coming closer for each book. Who will die in book 7 if this trend is to continue? Will Arthur dying really have more impact than Dumblodore? Or Molly?
Hardly. Are we speaking hextet death her? Or even trio death?
Very possible.
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haymoni - Jun 27, 2006 12:42 pm (#833 of 1297)
It could be Hagrid, Scrimgeour, Kingsley, Moody.
We were bothered by Madame Bones for crying out loud!
I'd rather see Moody get it than Hagrid, but I'd still feel bad about it.
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Magic Words - Jun 27, 2006 12:45 pm (#834 of 1297)
I had noticed that too, about the death getting closer in each book.
I feel kind of bad even saying this, but if we need to have a trio death, I hope it's Harry. If only so he doesn't have to put up with losing Ron or Hermione. And also because through the whole series Ron and Hermione have been something of a unit, even before they were a ship. Killing off one and leaving the other alone just seems... unfinished, in some way. Killing off both is just too horrible to contemplate.
But then there's Ginny, who has liked Harry since her first year... I don't know, I would be okay with her moving on and ending up with Neville, if she hadn't liked Harry since her first year... you get the impression that even he dies and she moves on she'll never get over him (because she hasn't managed to so far).
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Die Zimtzicke - Jun 27, 2006 2:34 pm (#835 of 1297)
I'd be thrilled if Ginny died, since she's boring to me, and there are so many Weasleys so involved in the war, I think some of them have to die. I just don't think she's well written, so I wouldn't mind a bit if she died.
However, I have always thought Harry might have to die to defeat Voldemort. Aren't we dealing with MORE than two deaths though? She said in an earlier interview that she had already written one death. My instinct tells me these changes have happened since then.
I could be wrong, of course... And yes, I think the deaths she's talking about are good guys.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 27, 2006 3:43 pm (#836 of 1297)
. One character got a reprieve. But I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die. A price has to be paid.
..A price has to be paid? This brings to mind unpaid debts.Perhaps she is talking of Wormtail and Ron or Mr.Weasley- Harry has saved both.Gee..I hope not. I hope the reprieve is Dumbledore but she may also be referring to Snape.This is getting us nowhere!It could be anybody.
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Finn BV - Jun 27, 2006 4:04 pm (#837 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
We were bothered by Madame Bones for crying out loud! --haymoni
So true!!! Don't forget, these two deaths we're getting all worried about could be Scrimgeour, or Umbridge, or whoever.
And really, we've got to settle down about this whole reprieve/death business. Think about it. Before her interview yesterday, would you have been surprised if you were handed Book 7 and you read that two major or main characters died? I certainly wouldn't have been. We found out that one character who was intended to die will not and two who weren't, will. Does that truly surprise you? That two main/major characters will die? This is a battle versus Voldemort, people. It's Book 7. I have to say, I am completely unchanged by anything she said yesterday. We learned, IMO, nothing.
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geauxtigers - Jun 27, 2006 5:25 pm (#838 of 1297)
Yum!
So true!!! Don't forget, these two deaths we're getting all worried about could be Scrimgeour, or Umbridge, or whoever.
Finn, I agree, since it could be anyone I don't think theres much to it. It is book 7 , its a war, people are going to die. I think that we are getting too "un-hopeful" about this. The point is we are worrying over something that ought not be fretted over. I'm not surprised just curious as to who it could be so in the mean time I guess its fun to talk about!
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Choices - Jun 27, 2006 5:56 pm (#839 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I have, for some time now, thought that Harry might almost die or appear to die in the end, but somehow be brought back. After what JKR said recently, I am getting fearful that Harry might buy the farm for good. I would just hate that and I would be terribly disappointed that Harry has suffered so much in his short life and then he just dies. That would be seriously rotten!!! I want to be able to finish this series and spend years imagining Harry living the good life, happy and fulfilled by his family and career. Please JKR, don't crush my lovely vision of Harry riding off into the sunset, happy and alive.
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MTW - Jun 27, 2006 8:09 pm (#840 of 1297)
I'm leaning to the Dursleys, with Dudley surviving. As Die stated before. The stay with the Dursleys and the wedding will be two obvious places for ambush. The Dursley home has the least wizards around to fight back. Ron and Hermione will give Harry and Dudley a chance to escape.
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Finn BV - Jun 27, 2006 8:20 pm (#841 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I can't imagine JKR would be so careless as that to walk so closely to the edge of saying Harry's fate. I must really stress that I would be surprised if only two good characters died, and I have thought this for a while, ever since I got into the series two or three years ago, not since yesterday afternoon. So JKR saying two characters will bite the bullet is completely irrelevant.
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Pamzter - Jun 27, 2006 8:54 pm (#842 of 1297)
It's not just that two characters die, I don't think that's a surprise at all -- it's that it is principal characters that had not been originally planned upon. That catches everyone's imagination and makes them stop and rethink their own ideas. I don't think she's being careless, I think she and her publicists are starting the ball rolling on 7's build up. I'm expecting something new to be said every 6-8 weeks now that will stir everyone up and make all the forums (fora?) start popping with excitement. Can't wait.
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Finn BV - Jun 27, 2006 9:13 pm (#843 of 1297)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Pamzter, I understand your point. Thanks for putting it in those words.
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Solitaire - Jun 27, 2006 10:29 pm (#844 of 1297)
Two characters ... sheesh! I hope it isn't Gred-n-Forge! It would break my heart if either or both of the Weasley twins died. But oh, Finn ... if only it could be Umbridge! I probably shouldn't say she deserves to die ... but she is one nasty piece of work.
I really believe there will be more deaths--good guys and bad--who are more peripheral characters that we know mainly by name (such as Fortescue and Ollivander). The comment about debts to be paid ... yes, that does sound as though it could refer to Wormtail. It might also refer to Snape's life-debt to James--although I somehow think that has probably been paid--or even something connected to the Unbreakable Vow. It's really hard to know.
Solitaire
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scoop2172000 - Jun 28, 2006 5:07 am (#845 of 1297)
Follow-up on my recent post theorizing that Fred and George would die ... I've been giving it some thought, and I've concluded that Ginny is the one getting the reprieve, and that Jo had meant for one of the Weasley kids close to Harry to die, so she ended up picking a pair of them, the twins.
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wynnleaf - Jun 28, 2006 5:27 am (#846 of 1297)
I think we need to get the quotes right.
Jo: The final chapter is hidden away, although it has now changed very slightly. One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die ...
Judy: Two much loved ones?
Jo: Well, you know. A price has to be paid. We are dealing with pure evil. They don't target the extras do they? They go for the main characters, or I do.
It's "a price to be paid," not a "debt." There's a difference. From her next sentence, it sounds like she means that to defeat evil you have to pay a price. I really don't think she was talking about people paying on life debts -- that's more payment for the past. Instead, this is paying the price to destroy evil.
Btw, Quick Quotes has Part One of the transcript up.
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Esther Rose - Jun 28, 2006 6:52 am (#847 of 1297)
I thought the quote was more along the line that one character's life was worth two other characters. Which is why I am thinking that those three characters have some sort of relationship with each other. (No they don't have to be related just close.)
But like Finn said, this is war. We did not expect all of the remaining good (or bad) characters to make it to the end of the book. So no, a clue was not necessarily given away in the interview.
And as for whether Harry survives the end of the book or not. I read the transcript on Mugglenet. I did not get the impression that she was implying the death of Harry (or that Harry will survive.)
Harry's survival is one of many questions keeping us glued to the HP series. I don't think JKR would even hint in one way or the other whether HP meets his own death or not.
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Liz Mann - Jun 28, 2006 7:20 am (#848 of 1297)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Harry's survival is one of many questions keeping us glued to the HP series. I don't think JKR would even hint in one way or the other whether HP meets his own death or not.
Exactly. One of the things that spoils a lot of children's stories is that you know they're going to turn out well in the end. Which means there's no tension, only a curiosity as to how it's going to turn out well. On the other hand, knowing the ending will be happy means that the story is a feel-good story, which is always good for a dull day, but not good if you're writing an epic. J.K. might be planning this big, extremely tense scene for the end of book seven, and it's going to have very little impact if the readers already know that Harry is going to survive, isn't it? She wants the readers on the edge of their seat, biting their nails, getting up and pacing the room, taking deep breaths etc.
I've just had a thought. When we think of who's going to die and who isn't, does anyone here ever think about the non-human characters? Like Dobby? He is a character, after all, and he might die.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 28, 2006 7:40 am (#849 of 1297)
It's "a price to be paid," not a "debt." There's a difference. From her next sentence, it sounds like she means that to defeat evil you have to pay a price.Wynnleaf
Thanks for responding.I was hoping for a clarification and what you have said makes perfect sense.Two will die while battling evil? I still see some sacrifices that could possibly happen.I could see a few people willing to take a bullet for Harry.Mr.Weasley and Hagrid for instance.
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haymoni - Jun 28, 2006 7:51 am (#850 of 1297)
I took her statement to mean that there aren't just going to be 2 people killed.
Perhaps she had intended 10 to die - 1 got a reprieve, but 2 more ended up dying so now there are 11 total.
If that's the case...unfortunately it could be Hagrid, Tonks, Lupin, Moody, a few Weasleys...
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 851 to 900)
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colbow - Jun 28, 2006 9:33 am (#851 of 1297)
I took her statement as two MORE are going to die, on top of those she already has planned on dying.
One of those who she had planned to die , will be saved.
So there will be more then two deaths in book seven- also I was thinking that since Harry and Voldermort are the most obvious choices that we all assume will die, there will be people all around them dropping, but not those two.
I think it will be Draco ( who may have a change of heart?) Snape saving/defending Harry, perhaps?
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The One - Jun 28, 2006 9:59 am (#852 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
So far there has been one major death in each of the last three books.
There has been fairly big battles with very limited causalties. I do not expect the final battle to be much different: I expect no mass killing like the Omaha landing in the Privat Ryan movie, I expect the causalties to be limited and the emphasis to be on the personal confrontation between Voldemort and Harry.
It is quite possible that there was planned one major death, and that is now replaced by two.
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wynnleaf - Jun 28, 2006 11:02 am (#853 of 1297)
I also took her statement to mean that there were two characters which she had previously not intended to die, but which now would die. And that would be above and beyond any other character deaths that she had always intended. The one that got a "reprieve" would be from the characters that she had previously intended to die.
So unless she had previously only intended one major character death -- which character has now received a reprieve -- there will be more than 2 major character deaths.
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haymoni - Jun 28, 2006 11:22 am (#854 of 1297)
Yes - 10 was a bit extreme on my part, although if we total up all the characters that have died - Madame Bones, Hannah Abbott's family, etc. we may reach that amount.
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Magic Words - Jun 28, 2006 12:58 pm (#855 of 1297)
Do you think these changes could refer to books she's already written, that came out after she first wrote the epilogue? For instance, Bill could be the one who got the reprieve when he escaped Greyback with scars and a preference for rare meat.
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Solitaire - Jun 28, 2006 2:24 pm (#856 of 1297)
Magic, wasn't the statement made yesterday or the day before? If so, then she must be referring to the book we have not yet read--Book 7.
Solitaire
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Magic Words - Jun 28, 2006 3:00 pm (#857 of 1297)
I was just thinking that if she wrote the epilogue in 1990 and didn't change it until recently, the characters' fates might have changed any time in the past sixteen years.
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whitehound - Jun 28, 2006 4:08 pm (#858 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
I'm pretty sure Luna will be one of the ones to die, and was always planned to, not only because she doesn't get birthday wishes on the calendar but because otherwise you have to ask what purpose she serves? She's a lovely character and I adore her but she doesn't really add much to the plot, so I suspect she's there to provide a likeable character whom JK can then kill off to make a dramatic point, without traumatizing young readers as badly as she would if she killed one of the trio.
My guess would be that the person who was originally slated to die but who got a reprieve was Tonks, and the two extra deaths she hadn't previously planned for will be Minerva and one of the Weasleys, probably Charlie.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jun 28, 2006 4:23 pm (#859 of 1297)
I am convinced after giving it more thought, that the character death she said she wrote in an earlier interview, was seperate from these two. That these two have been decided recently. So I think we'll have more than two deaths. As for this way of putting things (and THIS is the transcript I got, which is a bit diffent from what had been posted earlier in the thread): Jo: Well, you know. A price has to be paid. We are dealing with pure evil. They don't target the extras do they? They go for the main characters, Well, I do.
Does that mean evil goes for the main characters and so do I, or evil characters don't target the extras, but I do? It's a very strange way to put it indeed, as I see it.
Even if it's extras, thought, I can't see it being Charlie. What would the point of killing Charlie be? We know less about him than any other Weasley. I can't imagine there'd be much fuss about him. I still don't think it has to be a bad thing if Harry dies. It can be quite good. He's had such a rotten life, his next life would almost have to be better, especially if he was reunited with his parents and Sirius and Dumbledore to have that next great adventure Dumbledore was talking about. Everyone's acting like dying is the end of everything. In these books we know it doesn't have to be.
I think the interview was kind of an insult, however, to the fans who have been insisting Jo had everything planned from the start, and plots every single word ages in advance to mean something dramatic, because like the time she had to redo the middle of GoF, and the time she was surprised everyone got excited when she named a character Mark Evans, it is clear that things can and do and have changed as she writes these books. What interests me a lot more than WHO dies, is why the changes had to be made. That's the question I'd like to see some suggestions on.
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MickeyCee3948 - Jun 28, 2006 5:48 pm (#860 of 1297)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I tend to believe that since JK has said repeatedly that the last chapter has been written since the start that the characters that will be killed off and reprieved are ones who have developed throughout the 6 books already complete.
Personally I believe that Draco is the one who will be reprieved and that Snape is the one of the ones to die. I imagine Voldemort is going to be livid with Draco for not being the one to kill Dumbledore and just as mad at Snape for being the one who did kill him. (Could the dark lord be afraid that Snape REALLY didn't finish off the old Prof?)
I am afraid that the other one will be one of the good guys but I have no idea what is going through JK's mind and no idea who will be stepping through the veil. Just my thinking to go with all of your's.
Mickey
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S.E. Jones - Jun 28, 2006 6:09 pm (#861 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Lina, on the JKRowling.com thread --She wrote the last chapter 16 years ago and now she has to change it because one character survived that she expected 16 years ago that would be dead by the end of the series, and two other that she expected to be in the last chapter, when she wrote it, aren't alive any more. So, the way I see it, it is possible that the two characters that she has to remove from the last chapter are dead already and we know that they are dead, but we don't know that she planned 16 years ago that they would be alive.... She was talking only about the last chapter of the book that has to be slightly changed because the characters in it are not going to be the same. But the changes in plot that have caused the changing in the last chapter did not have to happen in the last book exactly.--
You know, this is a possibility, though I have to agree with The One that Sirius and Dumbledore's deaths were probably planned from the beginning to happen when they did. You did make me rethink a few things, though. The character who got the reprieve has been in the last book all along, but I wonder if the two who are now going to be killed might be newer characters that she didn't initially foresee and so weren't initially in the last chapter of Book 7? We have characters like Rita Skeeter and Luna, just as examples, who started out as different or multiple characters but became who they now are in the course of writing books 4 and 5. I doubt she had an end in mind for them back in the early 90s when she wrote that last chapter....
EDIT: You know, MickeyCee, that's an interesting idea about Draco being the one to not die. We did start to see something more human in him in HBP (with his confessions to Myrtle about not wanting to kill Dumbledore and fearing for his family), so maybe she's decided that he might be worth saving afterall.
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geauxtigers - Jun 28, 2006 6:30 pm (#862 of 1297)
Yum!
I probably shouldn't say she deserves to die ... but she is one nasty piece of work.- lol its okay we can all just think it. We don't have to actually say it
I think we are all kidding ourselves if there would only be 2 deaths, this is a war, not a tea party where two people choke on candy or anything!
I think the only deaths that can be ruled out, are the Trio, surely their fates have been planned and haven't changed. Alas, earwax, we will only know when book 7 is resting in our hands! say it with me, ACCIO BOOK 7!
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whitehound - Jun 28, 2006 6:36 pm (#863 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
I doubt if she's going to change her mind about whether Snape lives or dies - he's really the second-most important character in the books, the one on whom so much pivots, so she's hardly any more likely to radically alter his fate than she is Harry's, for good or ill. And I doubt if she's going to kill Harry, because on a previous occasion a fan asked her of she intended to write any more stories about what Harry did after he left school, and she said she wasn't planning to but she didn't want to say for sure, because every time she commits herself to something like that she changes her mind.
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Soul Search - Jun 28, 2006 6:40 pm (#864 of 1297)
A way to look at it would be who are the main characters ... TO EVIL? That is, who would Voldemort and DEs be going after?
We saw deaths from the Ministry and the Order in HBP. Voldemort is eliminating the strongest competition, so this is where most deaths will come. Voldemort has already threatened Fudge ("step aside".) The Minister would also be a top target. And aurors, of course. Any in the order are also at high risk. Umbridge will probably avoid notice and survive.
Hogwarts staff, those not in the Order, are probably not at any more risk than anyone else. I don't see Voldemort attacking Hogwarts again. Unless, of course, he wants to take it over (return to his "home.")
Ron and Hermione could be targeted because they are known associates of Harry. Ginny, too. Neville and Luna may be known for their participation at the ministry in OotP.
Any other students are not being specifically targeted, but are at risk if they take part in a confrontation. I think we can be sure there will be confrontations; we have had too much buildup.
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Solitaire - Jun 28, 2006 9:30 pm (#865 of 1297)
I think the only deaths that can be ruled out, are the Trio
I do not think the Trio can be ruled out at all. Consider this quote from the article: "We are dealing with pure evil here. They don’t target extras, do they? They go for the main characters . . . well, I do." "Main characters" sound an awful lot like our Trio, to me. It sounds like they are going to be the ones with targets on their heads, and I think it is as likely that one or more of them will die as anyone else.
I hope it is not so, because I don't want any of the three to die. I've grown as attached to them as I am to Elizabeth and Darcy (Pride and Prejudice), and that's saying something!
Solitaire
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Muggle Doctor - Jun 29, 2006 6:18 am (#866 of 1297)
I think McGonagall is probably safe. She has had her brush with death and I don't think JKR is going to kill off two Hogwarts Headmasters in two books (Okay, headmistress, but you know what I mean).
I worry about Fred and George. I can see these two playing Horatius at the bridge to let some of the others get away, reassure everyone they'll be all right and then, when everyone's left, look at each other and realize they're doomed. Fade to black as they raise their wands for the last stand and say "Well, it's been fun, see you on the other side of the veil." The alternative to this is the other pair of grafted-at-the-hip Weasleys - Molly and Arthur.
Everyone's been predicting Snape's death, at the hands of either Harry or Voldemort - I think he just MIGHT be the one to be spared.
If Sirius was a major character, surely Lupin is too. Lupin and Peter? Originally to be spared, now to die? Not implausible.
It's been my understanding that the two to go are connected to each other in some way. They may not be, but I suspect they are.
Ron and Hermione? Possible. You take away Harry's best mate and he's lost the one person left who has the most faith in him. You take away Hermione, and he loses the one who does all the smart thinking for him. This would introduce the tension of "No support, no smarts: will he fall in a heap and die to kill Voldemort, or will he find in himself the greatness he's always had, and win through?" ON the other hand, the epilogue was only changed 'slightly', which makes me think it won't be a member of the trio (for some illogical reason).
More to the point, will it be something that Harry does (or fails to do) that gets the two new victims killed?
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Magic Words - Jun 29, 2006 8:16 am (#867 of 1297)
This would introduce the tension of "No support, no smarts: will he fall in a heap and die to kill Voldemort, or will he find in himself the greatness he's always had, and win through?"
Gosh, I hope not. I'm not all that attached to Ron, and there are several characters I like better than Hermione as well, but to kill one of them would be far too cruel to Harry. I won't stand for it. But as far as what I quoted, while Muggle Doctor has a good idea, I think JKR is much more likely to put emphasis on the importance of having friends than the importance of being entirely self-reliant, which would be the message if Harry suddenly had to defeat Voldemort without the other two-thirds of the trio.
Soul Search makes an excellent point: we should be looking at "main characters" from Voldemort's point of view, not a literary perspective. That means the trio and the Order, essentially. At particular high risk, I think, are Harry, Snape, Lupin, the next leader of the Order, and Peter, if he starts having second thoughts (which he'd better!) Then we have to look at who's liable to put him- or herself in harm's way to save one of the people I've just mentioned. That includes the Weasleys, Hermione, Ginny, possibly Neville and Luna, and Tonks.
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Solitaire - Jun 29, 2006 10:29 am (#868 of 1297)
I am attached to a lot of the characters, and I do not want to see any of those I love fall victim to Voldemort and his DEs. Alas, I think all of the good guys are vulnerable. I'm especially worried about our Trio, the Weasley twins and Mrs. Weasley, Remus, McGonagall, Hagrid (I really feel like Hagrid will go down trying to save Harry) ...
I think Neville, Luna, and Ginny could get into big trouble, but I'm still holding out for Neville to become the next Herbology teacher. It's hard to pinpoint for now, but I do believe the two big deaths are going to be people we love, whose deaths will dramatically affect either Harry and/or the Wizarding World at large.
Solitaire
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haymoni - Jun 29, 2006 10:34 am (#869 of 1297)
I think Peter is a goner.
I also think Hagrid may be in trouble.
I could see Lupin sacrificing himself avenging Tonk's death. Or even the otherway around.
I'm guessing McGonagle will be OK because she was already attacked in OotP.
I think Snape redeems himself and will survive. I don't want Gina to be a widow!
I think Harry, Ron, Hermione & Ginny will be OK, as well as Neville & Luna.
I worry about Fred & George, but I couldn't care less about Percy.
Bill's already suffered. Charlie could die if there is an attack at the wedding.
My heart will just be broken if anything happens to Arthur & Molly. They are just too cute.
I'm guessing Kingsley Shacklebolt could die or even Moody.
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Magic Words - Jun 29, 2006 10:52 am (#870 of 1297)
I don't think Percy will die. He may have a close call that forces him to rethink his decisions. And I guess after that he'd be as vulnerable as the next Weasley. But he's not a traitor, not really, so he doesn't deserve to die like Peter does or Snape might. It would be overkill. On the other hand, he's not sympathetic enough to for his death to touch most readers.
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haymoni - Jun 29, 2006 11:35 am (#871 of 1297)
I think your last sentance is what I feel, Magic Words.
He'll die on the good side, but he should have been on bended knee when he showed up for Christmas with the Minister.
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KTO - Jun 29, 2006 12:07 pm (#872 of 1297)
reprieve: my guess goes to Dudley or Snape. unexpected: Luna and Vernon
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wynnleaf - Jun 29, 2006 1:07 pm (#873 of 1297)
I suppose it's possible that the reprieve could be for a pivotal character, but I tend to doubt that because I think JKR would have thought out how the most pivotal characters work within the plot more carefully than the other major characters. In my opinion, the most pivotal characters (not including DD) are Harry, LV, and Snape -- because their actions throughout the series are what often moves the plot along. Hermione and Ron support Harry. Their actions move the plot primarily in how they support Harry -- so their characters are sort of dependent on what happens to Harry's character, as well as their actions making things change one way or the other for Harry. In other words, they're sort of inner-dependent with Harry.
Anyway, I think JKR's basic plot for Book 7 has probably always taken into account what would happen to the most pivotal players in the plot. So I think whatever she's planned for Harry, LV, and Snape, whether to live or die, will probably not change.
I suppose it's possible that Harry or Snape could be the "reprieve," but I still doubt that because I just think their roles are probably some of the most well-thought through that she's done -- in terms of advance planning.
So I think the changes will be among the other major characters.
And I repeat -- I think we make a mistake if we assume there will only be 2 major character deaths. JKR said in the interview that 2 who she had not planned on dying will now die. But we can be certain that she'd always planned on some dying. So unless she only had planned on 1 major character death, and that person now has a reprieve, then there are probably more than 2 major character deaths.
I could certainly be wrong, but I hope no one feels lied to if she ends up killing off more than 2 major characters.
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haymoni - Jun 29, 2006 1:21 pm (#874 of 1297)
I forgot about Dung. He could get caught at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Perhaps while possessing a certain goblin-made goblet bearing a certain family crest!
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Madame Librarian - Jun 29, 2006 6:26 pm (#875 of 1297)
Hi, folks, it's been a long time since I've posted. Well, here goes...
I've always thought that one of the most important things Dumbledore has imparted to Harry is the idea of the sacrifice you make for love, and how critical this was (Harry's survival due to Lily's sacrifice) and will be in the outcome of the story. I can only take this to mean that Harry will have to make a huge sacrifice. He'll be caught in a situation where either he can save someone very close to him and thereby allow Evil to prevail, or he can sacrifice that person or persons and save the Wizarding World (and maybe us Muggles, too).
Ron, Hermione or Ginny are the three characters that fit the bill here. Ron and Hermione as the truest, dearest friends, closer than brother or sister to Harry, or Ginny as his true love in the romantic sense.
This concept of the Big Sacrifice, whether it be of a loved one or oneself (also a strong possibility here) is a classic outcome of many hero legends since the genre was invented ages and ages ago.
[Starts to get weepy already; reaches for Kleenex.]
Ciao. Barb
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Magic Words - Jun 29, 2006 7:09 pm (#876 of 1297)
In most of the hero retellings I've seen, sacrificing the self is fine but you run into issues when it comes to the world vs. a loved one (think of the Matrix or Spiderman). That usually bothers me, actually.
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Steve Newton - Jun 29, 2006 7:26 pm (#877 of 1297)
Librarian
Good to have you back, Madame.
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Liz Mann - Jun 30, 2006 3:42 am (#878 of 1297)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Madame Librarian - I don't remember heros ever having to choose between saving the world and saving their loved ones before (except in Spiderman but he ended up saving both). So unless J.K. wants to be both different and sadistic, I think it's more likely that Harry will have to sacrifice himself (which I hope doesn't happen either. Unless of course he has to risk a great possibility of death in order to defeat Voldemort and then survives by luck anyway). Although to tell the truth I can perfectly imagine Voldemort holding Ginny in front of him and saying, "If you want to kill me you'll have to kill your girlfriend too." But that doesn't mean Harry will.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 30, 2006 10:22 am (#879 of 1297)
I keep thinking that The Woes of Mrs Weasley might be significant.What if the family members she didn't see dead(Ginny,Charlie,and herself)are ones that may die in book 7.
waves to Madame librarian*
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Liz Mann - Jun 30, 2006 2:20 pm (#880 of 1297)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
No! Not Ginny! I wouldn't be so sad to see Charlie die. I mean, obviously, I would be sad for the rest of the family for their loss, but Charlie hasn't had as much 'screen-time' as the others so I'm not as attached to him (though more attached than I am to Percy).
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Die Zimtzicke - Jun 30, 2006 5:10 pm (#881 of 1297)
I think it's possible Molly saw the missing family members, (Ginny, etc.) before Harry got there. She was already weeping when he came on the scene.
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Chemyst - Jun 30, 2006 5:51 pm (#882 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
So what do you all think of dead brides? I keep telling myself that is too gruesome for a book marketed to kids...
Still, nearly every wizard in Europe would know Fleur was one of the tri-wizard champions. If the intent is to really show the depths of evil, then killing off a young, beautiful, talented, well-known witch just as her life is starting, on what should be one of the happiest days of her life, that would be sensationally jarring throughout the wizarding world; ...and she'd be the newest Weasley; a touch of irony since she is one Weasley Molly wouldn't have seen as a boggart.
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Muggle Doctor - Jun 30, 2006 10:25 pm (#883 of 1297)
Magic Words said:
But as far as what I quoted, while Muggle Doctor has a good idea, I think JKR is much more likely to put emphasis on the importance of having friends than the importance of being entirely self-reliant,
Point taken, although I would counter that the battle between Harry and Voldemort is Harry's alone to fight. His friends may help to get him there, but he must do the job himself, whether or not they fall along the way.
Liz: in the "Tencendor" or "Wayfarer Redemption" novels by Sara Douglass, the hero Axis must choose between sacrificing his land or sacrificing someone he loved (he sacrifices the loved one, which in fairness to him it was prophesied he would do).
Chemyst:
If the intent is to really show the depths of evil, then killing off a young, beautiful, talented, well-known witch just as her life is starting, on what should be one of the happiest days of her life, that would be sensationally jarring throughout the wizarding world;
Cedric Diggory fulfilled most of these criteria, even if he was only Cho's boyfriend rather than anything more. Winning the Triwizard Cup (which, let's face it, he deserved to do; and which Harry offered to LET him do) would certainly have been the best day of his life so far, whilst as Hogwarts Triwizard Champion, he would have been very well known among all those taking an interest (which surely must have extended beyond the parents, friends and relatives of the students of the three schools).
On those grounds, I think Fleur's probably safe. JKR wouldn't repeat like that. But I like your touch of 'she'd be the newest Weasley': clever and truly ironic.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 1, 2006 5:07 am (#884 of 1297)
Liz,Lets trade Percy for Ginny so it wouldn't hurt as much.
Die,I hope you are right.I just thought that since the whole chapter is called Woes of Mrs Weasley,it might be significant.Why would Jo go into the whole boggart thing with Molly? We already know from her clock,the way she worried over her kids at the QWC etc.that Molly fears for her family's safety.
Chemyst,that gives me chills because I have a feeling not all will go well at that wedding.
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Magic Words - Jul 1, 2006 7:09 am (#885 of 1297)
I mean, they might as well paint a target on the church (or wherever wizarding weddings are held). Most of the Order will be there, I'm sure, and while they'll probably have charms and guards and such, you can bet the guests (except for Mad-Eye Moody) will be determined to enjoy themselves and try to forget they're at war, just for the day.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 1, 2006 1:51 pm (#886 of 1297)
Chemyst, your idea on the demise of Fleur gruesome though it may be is plausible in my opinion. My arguments in support of the idea can be found in these posts
Nathan Zimmermann, "# JK Rowling Official Site" #1275, 30 Jun 2006 11:48 pm
Nathan Zimmermann, "# JK Rowling Official Site" #1278, 1 Jul 2006 12:20 pm
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nthdavid - Jul 2, 2006 4:21 am (#887 of 1297)
I had a weird dream (yes another one) in which one of the twins got killed, and the other used a time-turner to keep anyone from finding out about it. Since he is used to seeing himself in his twin, he should have no problem seeing his future self instead of his twin.
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So Sirius - Jul 2, 2006 10:39 am (#888 of 1297)
nth, I know it was a just a dream, but I thought I'd mention that all the time turners were destroyed at the MoM in OOTP.
I still believe Harry will die. I am now on the fence to whether or not LV will die, as well. After all, we know his worst fear is death, but DD has tried to convince him that there are things worse... like having the last bit of your soul sucked out... perhaps we'll see him live and have to live out the rest of his life, suffering this worse than death, fate.
Maybe that room in the MoM is full of love and LV will have to feel something, be emotional and remorseful for once in his life and live with only a bit of soul left in him, and the Dementors will help him feel this pain, every day.
I used to think Draco died in the end. But, I wonder if he's someone JKR gave the reprieve to. To me, it's either him or LV.
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Steve Newton - Jul 2, 2006 12:29 pm (#889 of 1297)
Librarian
So, the Daily Prophet said that the Time Turners had been destroyed. Do you believe the Daily Prophet?
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Chemyst - Jul 2, 2006 1:41 pm (#890 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
So, the Daily Prophet said that the Time Turners had been destroyed. Do you believe the Daily Prophet?
Eh, sort of. I think their reporter probably got it right that all the time turners stored at the Ministry were destroyed, but there may have been an odd one or two checked out for use —and who knows what may have happened to the sign-out sheet? If there were any spared, we should ask Mungdungus, I guess.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 2, 2006 2:52 pm (#891 of 1297)
Why can't more Time Turners be made? Especially if a few were checked out.
I like the idea of Voldemort getting a Dementor kiss for the last piece of his soul.
My fear is if Harry's scar is a Horcrux (I'm not sure if I believe that one) Voldemort will kill Harry and Ron or Hermione will kill Voldemort. LPO
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colbow - Jul 2, 2006 4:15 pm (#892 of 1297)
LPO wrote- " like the idea of Voldemort getting a Dementor kiss for the last piece of his soul."
Now wouldn't that be something, taken out by one of his own followers , so to speak. Course I am sure LV would be able to do a patronus, unless he is just too weak... hmmm
I don't think Harry is a Horcrux, but one never knows. I wonder how many of us have hit the nail on the head?? Guess we'll find out...
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 2, 2006 5:32 pm (#893 of 1297)
We don't know for sure in my opinion, if the dementors are working for Voldemort or working for themselves. The fact that they have left Azkaban doesn't prove they've gone over to Voldemort, only that they are not under Ministry control. Horcruxes are built with bits of soul. A dementor can suck out a soul. I think it woudl be interesting if a dementor wound up helping Harry destroy a horcrux. But that's for another thread.
I can't see Fleur being one of the good guys who dies, since so many fans still do not see her as good, and since she is relatively minor as a character. I still think the best place for an attack, and deaths, though, is either the wedding. or at Privet Drive when the blood protection comes off.
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So Sirius - Jul 2, 2006 5:53 pm (#894 of 1297)
Die, that was my original thought, about Dementors being able to suck out souls... I thought, well, they could certainly locate horcruxes, if they have a bit of soul in them, especially one with a memory like a murder. But, I also thought, why would a dementor show Harry the way. Then from there, I thought, but if LV was on his last soul, what a perfect ending to our story, to have his soul sucked out, or if not, to have him put in Azkaban and have to relive every bad memory, but this time, with the ability to feel pain over them.
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Solitaire - Jul 2, 2006 7:20 pm (#895 of 1297)
I do not think putting Voldemort in Azkaban is such a good idea. He needs to be fully and completely dead. Imprisoning him with the idea that he can be kept in Azkaban indefinitely would be exercising the same arrogance that Voldemort himself has exercised with Harry. Underestimating one's enemy can be fatal.
Solitaire
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So Sirius - Jul 2, 2006 9:03 pm (#896 of 1297)
Imprisoning him after he's encountered whatever is in the secret room at the MoM. Is it love? If he was left with just one soul and most of the world against him and suddenly encountered this magic form of love or whatever that left him able to feel remorse and pity and love and kindness, etc. It would be a hellish existence for him. Although, I'm with you, I agree that he must die.
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Madam Pince - Jul 3, 2006 2:15 pm (#897 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I've been ruminating on JKR's latest interview quote for a week or more now, and I don't know as I'm any closer than I was when I started. But I think there is probably something to Madame Librarian's theory about someone close to Harry having to be sacrificed. I think there is one more person other than Ron, Hermione, and Ginny, though. Someone earlier noted that the "major deaths" so far keep ratcheting up on the Importance-To-Harry level: (Not counting Lily and James, of course, because that happened "off-camera" so to speak.) First we had Cedric, likable, but a fairly minor character. Next Sirius, more major but yet still with limited "page time." Then we get Dumbledore, major-major, mentor and all that. So... who is more major than Dumbledore? Well, there's Harry (just can't see it, sorry); or Ron/Hermione/Ginny (possible, but still don't really see it); and .... Hagrid.
Hagrid is the oldest friend Harry has in the wizarding world. Hagrid is the one who rescued him from his family's ruined home as a baby. Hagrid is the first wizard he met, the one who scooped him up from the Dursleys and explained everything about the magical world to him and stood beside him always, no matter what. Then you take into consideration the alchemy thing (Black Process/White Process/Red Process), and I'm very much afraid that Hagrid is toast. Possibly very early on in Book 7, possibly at the wedding, which I agree is a site just ripe for tragedy. Dumbledore was Harry's mentor, but Hagrid is Harry's friend. Way worse. Killing a character who is totally innocent, somewhat simple, and just plain nice, as Hagrid is, also makes Voldemort the ultimate evil, sort of like a hunter clubbing a baby harp seal -- it will really tick everyone off. I can see that death making Jo's husband Neil shudder and say "Oh no, not that one," or whatever it is he said.
I have always thought and still think that Snape is going to have to die saving Harry. I don't like it, but I think he will. It would be nice if he's the one with the reprieve, but I'm afraid he won't be.
I think Pamzter also had a good scenario about Lupin and/or Tonks biting the dust -- it's almost a requirement in wars to have some romance tragically torn apart by a battle-death, and this fits the bill as good as any. We care about them, more than Charlie/Fleur but not as much as one of the trio or something. It's usually a young romance, too, in order to "up" the tragedy-ante, so that lets out Arthur and Molly. Plus Lupin has always been a bit of a tragic character anyway, almost wishing for death sometimes, it seemed to me, just to escape his "curse." It would also pave the way for the possibility of all the original Marauders being offed (assuming Wormtail gets it, too, which I strongly suspect), leaving room for a new set of Marauders (Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Ginny) as The Next Generation.
All this still doesn't help me trying to figure out JKR's latest tidbit, though. The quote says: "Jo: The final chapter is hidden away, although it has now changed very slightly. One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die ..." The words "very slightly" make me think it's not Harry, Ron, or Hermione that change. I also think this doesn't necessarily mean that only two characters will die. I don't think it necessarily means the two will be tied together in any way, like Lupin/Tonks, or Fred/George, it could just as easily be Luna/Percy or whatever. With no reason for thinking this, I just think it's possible that the reprieved character may be Draco -- she was originally going to have him die fighting alongside Harry, and now he'll pull through somehow. Maybe Neville will save him or something. Ooooh, better yet Hermione -- he'd have to live down having a mudblood save his life. I think one or both of Draco's parents are going to be murdered by Voldemort, which will be why Draco turns sides -- not necessarily wanting to help Harry so much as just wanting revenge for his parents.
And of course, Voldy has to die.
Edit: Oh, someone said earlier about JKR saying "...they go for the main characters, or I do." I didn't hear the interview and so can't go by voice inflection, but I read that as her acknowledging that well, she is the writer after all, so it's not like any real person is going after any other real person, it's all coming from her pen. Just my interpretation....
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So Sirius - Jul 3, 2006 3:50 pm (#898 of 1297)
Maybe it's Mrs. Weasley. She might sacrifice herself with this old magic, like Harry's mother, for one of her children.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 3, 2006 3:58 pm (#899 of 1297)
Solitaire I agree no prison for Voldy. Even if he is a soulless shell.
Madame Pince it would be awful for Hagrid to die. Personally I think Voldy will try to take over Hogwarts. Hagrid won't leave Hogwarts. He may die defending it. I am also afraid for Neville. He is always hovering on the perimeter of the trio. Harry has a deep connection to him. And Neville has found his courage. LPO
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Solitaire - Jul 3, 2006 5:59 pm (#900 of 1297)
I'm worried about what Harry might do if Hagrid is murdered. Even though Harry was not as closely involved with Hagrid in HBP, there is a strong emotional tie between them. Hagrid was his first contact with the Wizarding World--in a sense, he was Harry's guide into the world of magic--and his guardian immediately after his parents were killed. Harry's rage over the murder of a gentle giant like Hagrid would be hard to contain.
I, too, am worried about Neville, LPO. You are correct that Neville has been on the spot in the last two books when the rubber meets the road. He really has been loyal and brave, and those are the kind of characters who usually get bumped off. Still, I am clinging to Neville becoming the next Herbology professor at Hogwarts, and he has to LIVE for that!
Solitaire
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I took her statement as two MORE are going to die, on top of those she already has planned on dying.
One of those who she had planned to die , will be saved.
So there will be more then two deaths in book seven- also I was thinking that since Harry and Voldermort are the most obvious choices that we all assume will die, there will be people all around them dropping, but not those two.
I think it will be Draco ( who may have a change of heart?) Snape saving/defending Harry, perhaps?
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The One - Jun 28, 2006 9:59 am (#852 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
So far there has been one major death in each of the last three books.
There has been fairly big battles with very limited causalties. I do not expect the final battle to be much different: I expect no mass killing like the Omaha landing in the Privat Ryan movie, I expect the causalties to be limited and the emphasis to be on the personal confrontation between Voldemort and Harry.
It is quite possible that there was planned one major death, and that is now replaced by two.
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wynnleaf - Jun 28, 2006 11:02 am (#853 of 1297)
I also took her statement to mean that there were two characters which she had previously not intended to die, but which now would die. And that would be above and beyond any other character deaths that she had always intended. The one that got a "reprieve" would be from the characters that she had previously intended to die.
So unless she had previously only intended one major character death -- which character has now received a reprieve -- there will be more than 2 major character deaths.
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haymoni - Jun 28, 2006 11:22 am (#854 of 1297)
Yes - 10 was a bit extreme on my part, although if we total up all the characters that have died - Madame Bones, Hannah Abbott's family, etc. we may reach that amount.
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Magic Words - Jun 28, 2006 12:58 pm (#855 of 1297)
Do you think these changes could refer to books she's already written, that came out after she first wrote the epilogue? For instance, Bill could be the one who got the reprieve when he escaped Greyback with scars and a preference for rare meat.
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Solitaire - Jun 28, 2006 2:24 pm (#856 of 1297)
Magic, wasn't the statement made yesterday or the day before? If so, then she must be referring to the book we have not yet read--Book 7.
Solitaire
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Magic Words - Jun 28, 2006 3:00 pm (#857 of 1297)
I was just thinking that if she wrote the epilogue in 1990 and didn't change it until recently, the characters' fates might have changed any time in the past sixteen years.
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whitehound - Jun 28, 2006 4:08 pm (#858 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
I'm pretty sure Luna will be one of the ones to die, and was always planned to, not only because she doesn't get birthday wishes on the calendar but because otherwise you have to ask what purpose she serves? She's a lovely character and I adore her but she doesn't really add much to the plot, so I suspect she's there to provide a likeable character whom JK can then kill off to make a dramatic point, without traumatizing young readers as badly as she would if she killed one of the trio.
My guess would be that the person who was originally slated to die but who got a reprieve was Tonks, and the two extra deaths she hadn't previously planned for will be Minerva and one of the Weasleys, probably Charlie.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jun 28, 2006 4:23 pm (#859 of 1297)
I am convinced after giving it more thought, that the character death she said she wrote in an earlier interview, was seperate from these two. That these two have been decided recently. So I think we'll have more than two deaths. As for this way of putting things (and THIS is the transcript I got, which is a bit diffent from what had been posted earlier in the thread): Jo: Well, you know. A price has to be paid. We are dealing with pure evil. They don't target the extras do they? They go for the main characters, Well, I do.
Does that mean evil goes for the main characters and so do I, or evil characters don't target the extras, but I do? It's a very strange way to put it indeed, as I see it.
Even if it's extras, thought, I can't see it being Charlie. What would the point of killing Charlie be? We know less about him than any other Weasley. I can't imagine there'd be much fuss about him. I still don't think it has to be a bad thing if Harry dies. It can be quite good. He's had such a rotten life, his next life would almost have to be better, especially if he was reunited with his parents and Sirius and Dumbledore to have that next great adventure Dumbledore was talking about. Everyone's acting like dying is the end of everything. In these books we know it doesn't have to be.
I think the interview was kind of an insult, however, to the fans who have been insisting Jo had everything planned from the start, and plots every single word ages in advance to mean something dramatic, because like the time she had to redo the middle of GoF, and the time she was surprised everyone got excited when she named a character Mark Evans, it is clear that things can and do and have changed as she writes these books. What interests me a lot more than WHO dies, is why the changes had to be made. That's the question I'd like to see some suggestions on.
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MickeyCee3948 - Jun 28, 2006 5:48 pm (#860 of 1297)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I tend to believe that since JK has said repeatedly that the last chapter has been written since the start that the characters that will be killed off and reprieved are ones who have developed throughout the 6 books already complete.
Personally I believe that Draco is the one who will be reprieved and that Snape is the one of the ones to die. I imagine Voldemort is going to be livid with Draco for not being the one to kill Dumbledore and just as mad at Snape for being the one who did kill him. (Could the dark lord be afraid that Snape REALLY didn't finish off the old Prof?)
I am afraid that the other one will be one of the good guys but I have no idea what is going through JK's mind and no idea who will be stepping through the veil. Just my thinking to go with all of your's.
Mickey
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S.E. Jones - Jun 28, 2006 6:09 pm (#861 of 1297)
Let it snow!
Lina, on the JKRowling.com thread --She wrote the last chapter 16 years ago and now she has to change it because one character survived that she expected 16 years ago that would be dead by the end of the series, and two other that she expected to be in the last chapter, when she wrote it, aren't alive any more. So, the way I see it, it is possible that the two characters that she has to remove from the last chapter are dead already and we know that they are dead, but we don't know that she planned 16 years ago that they would be alive.... She was talking only about the last chapter of the book that has to be slightly changed because the characters in it are not going to be the same. But the changes in plot that have caused the changing in the last chapter did not have to happen in the last book exactly.--
You know, this is a possibility, though I have to agree with The One that Sirius and Dumbledore's deaths were probably planned from the beginning to happen when they did. You did make me rethink a few things, though. The character who got the reprieve has been in the last book all along, but I wonder if the two who are now going to be killed might be newer characters that she didn't initially foresee and so weren't initially in the last chapter of Book 7? We have characters like Rita Skeeter and Luna, just as examples, who started out as different or multiple characters but became who they now are in the course of writing books 4 and 5. I doubt she had an end in mind for them back in the early 90s when she wrote that last chapter....
EDIT: You know, MickeyCee, that's an interesting idea about Draco being the one to not die. We did start to see something more human in him in HBP (with his confessions to Myrtle about not wanting to kill Dumbledore and fearing for his family), so maybe she's decided that he might be worth saving afterall.
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geauxtigers - Jun 28, 2006 6:30 pm (#862 of 1297)
Yum!
I probably shouldn't say she deserves to die ... but she is one nasty piece of work.- lol its okay we can all just think it. We don't have to actually say it
I think we are all kidding ourselves if there would only be 2 deaths, this is a war, not a tea party where two people choke on candy or anything!
I think the only deaths that can be ruled out, are the Trio, surely their fates have been planned and haven't changed. Alas, earwax, we will only know when book 7 is resting in our hands! say it with me, ACCIO BOOK 7!
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whitehound - Jun 28, 2006 6:36 pm (#863 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
I doubt if she's going to change her mind about whether Snape lives or dies - he's really the second-most important character in the books, the one on whom so much pivots, so she's hardly any more likely to radically alter his fate than she is Harry's, for good or ill. And I doubt if she's going to kill Harry, because on a previous occasion a fan asked her of she intended to write any more stories about what Harry did after he left school, and she said she wasn't planning to but she didn't want to say for sure, because every time she commits herself to something like that she changes her mind.
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Soul Search - Jun 28, 2006 6:40 pm (#864 of 1297)
A way to look at it would be who are the main characters ... TO EVIL? That is, who would Voldemort and DEs be going after?
We saw deaths from the Ministry and the Order in HBP. Voldemort is eliminating the strongest competition, so this is where most deaths will come. Voldemort has already threatened Fudge ("step aside".) The Minister would also be a top target. And aurors, of course. Any in the order are also at high risk. Umbridge will probably avoid notice and survive.
Hogwarts staff, those not in the Order, are probably not at any more risk than anyone else. I don't see Voldemort attacking Hogwarts again. Unless, of course, he wants to take it over (return to his "home.")
Ron and Hermione could be targeted because they are known associates of Harry. Ginny, too. Neville and Luna may be known for their participation at the ministry in OotP.
Any other students are not being specifically targeted, but are at risk if they take part in a confrontation. I think we can be sure there will be confrontations; we have had too much buildup.
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Solitaire - Jun 28, 2006 9:30 pm (#865 of 1297)
I think the only deaths that can be ruled out, are the Trio
I do not think the Trio can be ruled out at all. Consider this quote from the article: "We are dealing with pure evil here. They don’t target extras, do they? They go for the main characters . . . well, I do." "Main characters" sound an awful lot like our Trio, to me. It sounds like they are going to be the ones with targets on their heads, and I think it is as likely that one or more of them will die as anyone else.
I hope it is not so, because I don't want any of the three to die. I've grown as attached to them as I am to Elizabeth and Darcy (Pride and Prejudice), and that's saying something!
Solitaire
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Muggle Doctor - Jun 29, 2006 6:18 am (#866 of 1297)
I think McGonagall is probably safe. She has had her brush with death and I don't think JKR is going to kill off two Hogwarts Headmasters in two books (Okay, headmistress, but you know what I mean).
I worry about Fred and George. I can see these two playing Horatius at the bridge to let some of the others get away, reassure everyone they'll be all right and then, when everyone's left, look at each other and realize they're doomed. Fade to black as they raise their wands for the last stand and say "Well, it's been fun, see you on the other side of the veil." The alternative to this is the other pair of grafted-at-the-hip Weasleys - Molly and Arthur.
Everyone's been predicting Snape's death, at the hands of either Harry or Voldemort - I think he just MIGHT be the one to be spared.
If Sirius was a major character, surely Lupin is too. Lupin and Peter? Originally to be spared, now to die? Not implausible.
It's been my understanding that the two to go are connected to each other in some way. They may not be, but I suspect they are.
Ron and Hermione? Possible. You take away Harry's best mate and he's lost the one person left who has the most faith in him. You take away Hermione, and he loses the one who does all the smart thinking for him. This would introduce the tension of "No support, no smarts: will he fall in a heap and die to kill Voldemort, or will he find in himself the greatness he's always had, and win through?" ON the other hand, the epilogue was only changed 'slightly', which makes me think it won't be a member of the trio (for some illogical reason).
More to the point, will it be something that Harry does (or fails to do) that gets the two new victims killed?
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Magic Words - Jun 29, 2006 8:16 am (#867 of 1297)
This would introduce the tension of "No support, no smarts: will he fall in a heap and die to kill Voldemort, or will he find in himself the greatness he's always had, and win through?"
Gosh, I hope not. I'm not all that attached to Ron, and there are several characters I like better than Hermione as well, but to kill one of them would be far too cruel to Harry. I won't stand for it. But as far as what I quoted, while Muggle Doctor has a good idea, I think JKR is much more likely to put emphasis on the importance of having friends than the importance of being entirely self-reliant, which would be the message if Harry suddenly had to defeat Voldemort without the other two-thirds of the trio.
Soul Search makes an excellent point: we should be looking at "main characters" from Voldemort's point of view, not a literary perspective. That means the trio and the Order, essentially. At particular high risk, I think, are Harry, Snape, Lupin, the next leader of the Order, and Peter, if he starts having second thoughts (which he'd better!) Then we have to look at who's liable to put him- or herself in harm's way to save one of the people I've just mentioned. That includes the Weasleys, Hermione, Ginny, possibly Neville and Luna, and Tonks.
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Solitaire - Jun 29, 2006 10:29 am (#868 of 1297)
I am attached to a lot of the characters, and I do not want to see any of those I love fall victim to Voldemort and his DEs. Alas, I think all of the good guys are vulnerable. I'm especially worried about our Trio, the Weasley twins and Mrs. Weasley, Remus, McGonagall, Hagrid (I really feel like Hagrid will go down trying to save Harry) ...
I think Neville, Luna, and Ginny could get into big trouble, but I'm still holding out for Neville to become the next Herbology teacher. It's hard to pinpoint for now, but I do believe the two big deaths are going to be people we love, whose deaths will dramatically affect either Harry and/or the Wizarding World at large.
Solitaire
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haymoni - Jun 29, 2006 10:34 am (#869 of 1297)
I think Peter is a goner.
I also think Hagrid may be in trouble.
I could see Lupin sacrificing himself avenging Tonk's death. Or even the otherway around.
I'm guessing McGonagle will be OK because she was already attacked in OotP.
I think Snape redeems himself and will survive. I don't want Gina to be a widow!
I think Harry, Ron, Hermione & Ginny will be OK, as well as Neville & Luna.
I worry about Fred & George, but I couldn't care less about Percy.
Bill's already suffered. Charlie could die if there is an attack at the wedding.
My heart will just be broken if anything happens to Arthur & Molly. They are just too cute.
I'm guessing Kingsley Shacklebolt could die or even Moody.
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Magic Words - Jun 29, 2006 10:52 am (#870 of 1297)
I don't think Percy will die. He may have a close call that forces him to rethink his decisions. And I guess after that he'd be as vulnerable as the next Weasley. But he's not a traitor, not really, so he doesn't deserve to die like Peter does or Snape might. It would be overkill. On the other hand, he's not sympathetic enough to for his death to touch most readers.
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haymoni - Jun 29, 2006 11:35 am (#871 of 1297)
I think your last sentance is what I feel, Magic Words.
He'll die on the good side, but he should have been on bended knee when he showed up for Christmas with the Minister.
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KTO - Jun 29, 2006 12:07 pm (#872 of 1297)
reprieve: my guess goes to Dudley or Snape. unexpected: Luna and Vernon
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wynnleaf - Jun 29, 2006 1:07 pm (#873 of 1297)
I suppose it's possible that the reprieve could be for a pivotal character, but I tend to doubt that because I think JKR would have thought out how the most pivotal characters work within the plot more carefully than the other major characters. In my opinion, the most pivotal characters (not including DD) are Harry, LV, and Snape -- because their actions throughout the series are what often moves the plot along. Hermione and Ron support Harry. Their actions move the plot primarily in how they support Harry -- so their characters are sort of dependent on what happens to Harry's character, as well as their actions making things change one way or the other for Harry. In other words, they're sort of inner-dependent with Harry.
Anyway, I think JKR's basic plot for Book 7 has probably always taken into account what would happen to the most pivotal players in the plot. So I think whatever she's planned for Harry, LV, and Snape, whether to live or die, will probably not change.
I suppose it's possible that Harry or Snape could be the "reprieve," but I still doubt that because I just think their roles are probably some of the most well-thought through that she's done -- in terms of advance planning.
So I think the changes will be among the other major characters.
And I repeat -- I think we make a mistake if we assume there will only be 2 major character deaths. JKR said in the interview that 2 who she had not planned on dying will now die. But we can be certain that she'd always planned on some dying. So unless she only had planned on 1 major character death, and that person now has a reprieve, then there are probably more than 2 major character deaths.
I could certainly be wrong, but I hope no one feels lied to if she ends up killing off more than 2 major characters.
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haymoni - Jun 29, 2006 1:21 pm (#874 of 1297)
I forgot about Dung. He could get caught at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Perhaps while possessing a certain goblin-made goblet bearing a certain family crest!
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Madame Librarian - Jun 29, 2006 6:26 pm (#875 of 1297)
Hi, folks, it's been a long time since I've posted. Well, here goes...
I've always thought that one of the most important things Dumbledore has imparted to Harry is the idea of the sacrifice you make for love, and how critical this was (Harry's survival due to Lily's sacrifice) and will be in the outcome of the story. I can only take this to mean that Harry will have to make a huge sacrifice. He'll be caught in a situation where either he can save someone very close to him and thereby allow Evil to prevail, or he can sacrifice that person or persons and save the Wizarding World (and maybe us Muggles, too).
Ron, Hermione or Ginny are the three characters that fit the bill here. Ron and Hermione as the truest, dearest friends, closer than brother or sister to Harry, or Ginny as his true love in the romantic sense.
This concept of the Big Sacrifice, whether it be of a loved one or oneself (also a strong possibility here) is a classic outcome of many hero legends since the genre was invented ages and ages ago.
[Starts to get weepy already; reaches for Kleenex.]
Ciao. Barb
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Magic Words - Jun 29, 2006 7:09 pm (#876 of 1297)
In most of the hero retellings I've seen, sacrificing the self is fine but you run into issues when it comes to the world vs. a loved one (think of the Matrix or Spiderman). That usually bothers me, actually.
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Steve Newton - Jun 29, 2006 7:26 pm (#877 of 1297)
Librarian
Good to have you back, Madame.
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Liz Mann - Jun 30, 2006 3:42 am (#878 of 1297)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Madame Librarian - I don't remember heros ever having to choose between saving the world and saving their loved ones before (except in Spiderman but he ended up saving both). So unless J.K. wants to be both different and sadistic, I think it's more likely that Harry will have to sacrifice himself (which I hope doesn't happen either. Unless of course he has to risk a great possibility of death in order to defeat Voldemort and then survives by luck anyway). Although to tell the truth I can perfectly imagine Voldemort holding Ginny in front of him and saying, "If you want to kill me you'll have to kill your girlfriend too." But that doesn't mean Harry will.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 30, 2006 10:22 am (#879 of 1297)
I keep thinking that The Woes of Mrs Weasley might be significant.What if the family members she didn't see dead(Ginny,Charlie,and herself)are ones that may die in book 7.
waves to Madame librarian*
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Liz Mann - Jun 30, 2006 2:20 pm (#880 of 1297)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
No! Not Ginny! I wouldn't be so sad to see Charlie die. I mean, obviously, I would be sad for the rest of the family for their loss, but Charlie hasn't had as much 'screen-time' as the others so I'm not as attached to him (though more attached than I am to Percy).
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Die Zimtzicke - Jun 30, 2006 5:10 pm (#881 of 1297)
I think it's possible Molly saw the missing family members, (Ginny, etc.) before Harry got there. She was already weeping when he came on the scene.
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Chemyst - Jun 30, 2006 5:51 pm (#882 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
So what do you all think of dead brides? I keep telling myself that is too gruesome for a book marketed to kids...
Still, nearly every wizard in Europe would know Fleur was one of the tri-wizard champions. If the intent is to really show the depths of evil, then killing off a young, beautiful, talented, well-known witch just as her life is starting, on what should be one of the happiest days of her life, that would be sensationally jarring throughout the wizarding world; ...and she'd be the newest Weasley; a touch of irony since she is one Weasley Molly wouldn't have seen as a boggart.
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Muggle Doctor - Jun 30, 2006 10:25 pm (#883 of 1297)
Magic Words said:
But as far as what I quoted, while Muggle Doctor has a good idea, I think JKR is much more likely to put emphasis on the importance of having friends than the importance of being entirely self-reliant,
Point taken, although I would counter that the battle between Harry and Voldemort is Harry's alone to fight. His friends may help to get him there, but he must do the job himself, whether or not they fall along the way.
Liz: in the "Tencendor" or "Wayfarer Redemption" novels by Sara Douglass, the hero Axis must choose between sacrificing his land or sacrificing someone he loved (he sacrifices the loved one, which in fairness to him it was prophesied he would do).
Chemyst:
If the intent is to really show the depths of evil, then killing off a young, beautiful, talented, well-known witch just as her life is starting, on what should be one of the happiest days of her life, that would be sensationally jarring throughout the wizarding world;
Cedric Diggory fulfilled most of these criteria, even if he was only Cho's boyfriend rather than anything more. Winning the Triwizard Cup (which, let's face it, he deserved to do; and which Harry offered to LET him do) would certainly have been the best day of his life so far, whilst as Hogwarts Triwizard Champion, he would have been very well known among all those taking an interest (which surely must have extended beyond the parents, friends and relatives of the students of the three schools).
On those grounds, I think Fleur's probably safe. JKR wouldn't repeat like that. But I like your touch of 'she'd be the newest Weasley': clever and truly ironic.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 1, 2006 5:07 am (#884 of 1297)
Liz,Lets trade Percy for Ginny so it wouldn't hurt as much.
Die,I hope you are right.I just thought that since the whole chapter is called Woes of Mrs Weasley,it might be significant.Why would Jo go into the whole boggart thing with Molly? We already know from her clock,the way she worried over her kids at the QWC etc.that Molly fears for her family's safety.
Chemyst,that gives me chills because I have a feeling not all will go well at that wedding.
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Magic Words - Jul 1, 2006 7:09 am (#885 of 1297)
I mean, they might as well paint a target on the church (or wherever wizarding weddings are held). Most of the Order will be there, I'm sure, and while they'll probably have charms and guards and such, you can bet the guests (except for Mad-Eye Moody) will be determined to enjoy themselves and try to forget they're at war, just for the day.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 1, 2006 1:51 pm (#886 of 1297)
Chemyst, your idea on the demise of Fleur gruesome though it may be is plausible in my opinion. My arguments in support of the idea can be found in these posts
Nathan Zimmermann, "# JK Rowling Official Site" #1275, 30 Jun 2006 11:48 pm
Nathan Zimmermann, "# JK Rowling Official Site" #1278, 1 Jul 2006 12:20 pm
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nthdavid - Jul 2, 2006 4:21 am (#887 of 1297)
I had a weird dream (yes another one) in which one of the twins got killed, and the other used a time-turner to keep anyone from finding out about it. Since he is used to seeing himself in his twin, he should have no problem seeing his future self instead of his twin.
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So Sirius - Jul 2, 2006 10:39 am (#888 of 1297)
nth, I know it was a just a dream, but I thought I'd mention that all the time turners were destroyed at the MoM in OOTP.
I still believe Harry will die. I am now on the fence to whether or not LV will die, as well. After all, we know his worst fear is death, but DD has tried to convince him that there are things worse... like having the last bit of your soul sucked out... perhaps we'll see him live and have to live out the rest of his life, suffering this worse than death, fate.
Maybe that room in the MoM is full of love and LV will have to feel something, be emotional and remorseful for once in his life and live with only a bit of soul left in him, and the Dementors will help him feel this pain, every day.
I used to think Draco died in the end. But, I wonder if he's someone JKR gave the reprieve to. To me, it's either him or LV.
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Steve Newton - Jul 2, 2006 12:29 pm (#889 of 1297)
Librarian
So, the Daily Prophet said that the Time Turners had been destroyed. Do you believe the Daily Prophet?
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Chemyst - Jul 2, 2006 1:41 pm (#890 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
So, the Daily Prophet said that the Time Turners had been destroyed. Do you believe the Daily Prophet?
Eh, sort of. I think their reporter probably got it right that all the time turners stored at the Ministry were destroyed, but there may have been an odd one or two checked out for use —and who knows what may have happened to the sign-out sheet? If there were any spared, we should ask Mungdungus, I guess.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 2, 2006 2:52 pm (#891 of 1297)
Why can't more Time Turners be made? Especially if a few were checked out.
I like the idea of Voldemort getting a Dementor kiss for the last piece of his soul.
My fear is if Harry's scar is a Horcrux (I'm not sure if I believe that one) Voldemort will kill Harry and Ron or Hermione will kill Voldemort. LPO
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colbow - Jul 2, 2006 4:15 pm (#892 of 1297)
LPO wrote- " like the idea of Voldemort getting a Dementor kiss for the last piece of his soul."
Now wouldn't that be something, taken out by one of his own followers , so to speak. Course I am sure LV would be able to do a patronus, unless he is just too weak... hmmm
I don't think Harry is a Horcrux, but one never knows. I wonder how many of us have hit the nail on the head?? Guess we'll find out...
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 2, 2006 5:32 pm (#893 of 1297)
We don't know for sure in my opinion, if the dementors are working for Voldemort or working for themselves. The fact that they have left Azkaban doesn't prove they've gone over to Voldemort, only that they are not under Ministry control. Horcruxes are built with bits of soul. A dementor can suck out a soul. I think it woudl be interesting if a dementor wound up helping Harry destroy a horcrux. But that's for another thread.
I can't see Fleur being one of the good guys who dies, since so many fans still do not see her as good, and since she is relatively minor as a character. I still think the best place for an attack, and deaths, though, is either the wedding. or at Privet Drive when the blood protection comes off.
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So Sirius - Jul 2, 2006 5:53 pm (#894 of 1297)
Die, that was my original thought, about Dementors being able to suck out souls... I thought, well, they could certainly locate horcruxes, if they have a bit of soul in them, especially one with a memory like a murder. But, I also thought, why would a dementor show Harry the way. Then from there, I thought, but if LV was on his last soul, what a perfect ending to our story, to have his soul sucked out, or if not, to have him put in Azkaban and have to relive every bad memory, but this time, with the ability to feel pain over them.
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Solitaire - Jul 2, 2006 7:20 pm (#895 of 1297)
I do not think putting Voldemort in Azkaban is such a good idea. He needs to be fully and completely dead. Imprisoning him with the idea that he can be kept in Azkaban indefinitely would be exercising the same arrogance that Voldemort himself has exercised with Harry. Underestimating one's enemy can be fatal.
Solitaire
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So Sirius - Jul 2, 2006 9:03 pm (#896 of 1297)
Imprisoning him after he's encountered whatever is in the secret room at the MoM. Is it love? If he was left with just one soul and most of the world against him and suddenly encountered this magic form of love or whatever that left him able to feel remorse and pity and love and kindness, etc. It would be a hellish existence for him. Although, I'm with you, I agree that he must die.
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Madam Pince - Jul 3, 2006 2:15 pm (#897 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I've been ruminating on JKR's latest interview quote for a week or more now, and I don't know as I'm any closer than I was when I started. But I think there is probably something to Madame Librarian's theory about someone close to Harry having to be sacrificed. I think there is one more person other than Ron, Hermione, and Ginny, though. Someone earlier noted that the "major deaths" so far keep ratcheting up on the Importance-To-Harry level: (Not counting Lily and James, of course, because that happened "off-camera" so to speak.) First we had Cedric, likable, but a fairly minor character. Next Sirius, more major but yet still with limited "page time." Then we get Dumbledore, major-major, mentor and all that. So... who is more major than Dumbledore? Well, there's Harry (just can't see it, sorry); or Ron/Hermione/Ginny (possible, but still don't really see it); and .... Hagrid.
Hagrid is the oldest friend Harry has in the wizarding world. Hagrid is the one who rescued him from his family's ruined home as a baby. Hagrid is the first wizard he met, the one who scooped him up from the Dursleys and explained everything about the magical world to him and stood beside him always, no matter what. Then you take into consideration the alchemy thing (Black Process/White Process/Red Process), and I'm very much afraid that Hagrid is toast. Possibly very early on in Book 7, possibly at the wedding, which I agree is a site just ripe for tragedy. Dumbledore was Harry's mentor, but Hagrid is Harry's friend. Way worse. Killing a character who is totally innocent, somewhat simple, and just plain nice, as Hagrid is, also makes Voldemort the ultimate evil, sort of like a hunter clubbing a baby harp seal -- it will really tick everyone off. I can see that death making Jo's husband Neil shudder and say "Oh no, not that one," or whatever it is he said.
I have always thought and still think that Snape is going to have to die saving Harry. I don't like it, but I think he will. It would be nice if he's the one with the reprieve, but I'm afraid he won't be.
I think Pamzter also had a good scenario about Lupin and/or Tonks biting the dust -- it's almost a requirement in wars to have some romance tragically torn apart by a battle-death, and this fits the bill as good as any. We care about them, more than Charlie/Fleur but not as much as one of the trio or something. It's usually a young romance, too, in order to "up" the tragedy-ante, so that lets out Arthur and Molly. Plus Lupin has always been a bit of a tragic character anyway, almost wishing for death sometimes, it seemed to me, just to escape his "curse." It would also pave the way for the possibility of all the original Marauders being offed (assuming Wormtail gets it, too, which I strongly suspect), leaving room for a new set of Marauders (Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Ginny) as The Next Generation.
All this still doesn't help me trying to figure out JKR's latest tidbit, though. The quote says: "Jo: The final chapter is hidden away, although it has now changed very slightly. One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die ..." The words "very slightly" make me think it's not Harry, Ron, or Hermione that change. I also think this doesn't necessarily mean that only two characters will die. I don't think it necessarily means the two will be tied together in any way, like Lupin/Tonks, or Fred/George, it could just as easily be Luna/Percy or whatever. With no reason for thinking this, I just think it's possible that the reprieved character may be Draco -- she was originally going to have him die fighting alongside Harry, and now he'll pull through somehow. Maybe Neville will save him or something. Ooooh, better yet Hermione -- he'd have to live down having a mudblood save his life. I think one or both of Draco's parents are going to be murdered by Voldemort, which will be why Draco turns sides -- not necessarily wanting to help Harry so much as just wanting revenge for his parents.
And of course, Voldy has to die.
Edit: Oh, someone said earlier about JKR saying "...they go for the main characters, or I do." I didn't hear the interview and so can't go by voice inflection, but I read that as her acknowledging that well, she is the writer after all, so it's not like any real person is going after any other real person, it's all coming from her pen. Just my interpretation....
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So Sirius - Jul 3, 2006 3:50 pm (#898 of 1297)
Maybe it's Mrs. Weasley. She might sacrifice herself with this old magic, like Harry's mother, for one of her children.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 3, 2006 3:58 pm (#899 of 1297)
Solitaire I agree no prison for Voldy. Even if he is a soulless shell.
Madame Pince it would be awful for Hagrid to die. Personally I think Voldy will try to take over Hogwarts. Hagrid won't leave Hogwarts. He may die defending it. I am also afraid for Neville. He is always hovering on the perimeter of the trio. Harry has a deep connection to him. And Neville has found his courage. LPO
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Solitaire - Jul 3, 2006 5:59 pm (#900 of 1297)
I'm worried about what Harry might do if Hagrid is murdered. Even though Harry was not as closely involved with Hagrid in HBP, there is a strong emotional tie between them. Hagrid was his first contact with the Wizarding World--in a sense, he was Harry's guide into the world of magic--and his guardian immediately after his parents were killed. Harry's rage over the murder of a gentle giant like Hagrid would be hard to contain.
I, too, am worried about Neville, LPO. You are correct that Neville has been on the spot in the last two books when the rubber meets the road. He really has been loyal and brave, and those are the kind of characters who usually get bumped off. Still, I am clinging to Neville becoming the next Herbology professor at Hogwarts, and he has to LIVE for that!
Solitaire
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 901 to 950)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 10:59 am
TheSaint - Jul 3, 2006 6:13 pm (#901 of 1297)
Hagrid makes the most sense..Black, white, red. Only way to reach the goal. I only hope for Harry's sake the one closest to him is also the one getting the repreive. The poor kid has had enough.
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Magic Words - Jul 3, 2006 7:17 pm (#902 of 1297)
Personally I think Voldy will try to take over Hogwarts. Hagrid won't leave Hogwarts. He may die defending it. -LPO
Oh... LPO, you're right. He's Keeper of the Keys, isn't he? He guards the entrance.
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Bittersweet - Jul 3, 2006 7:58 pm (#903 of 1297)
I haven't logged on in a very long time, and can't possibly read through 25,000 posts to see if there's been a discussion about the possibility of JKR killing Harry in the end. She scared the daylights out of me in her most recent interview. I was talking to one of my middle school students about it, and he's very worried. He said that if Harry dies, he won't let his own children read Harry Potter when he grows up. Whether that comes to pass or not, I think it's a good indicator of the level of unhappiness that Harry's death would cause.
Can you guys steer me in the right direction?
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Solitaire - Jul 3, 2006 9:47 pm (#904 of 1297)
Bittersweet, there are all kinds of discussions about that. I would check the following threads, just for a starter: Harry Potter, Who will die in books 6/7, In the End, Connections between Harry & Voldemort, Horcruxes. Alas, even these few threads are a lot of reading. Happy Trails ...
Solitaire
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 4, 2006 2:41 pm (#905 of 1297)
Bittersweet I understand your concern. One of my Middle School students read the Bartimaeus Trilogy by Jonathan Stroud and he was appalled (I highly recommend the series). If Harry dies those of us in education will really have to wear our counseling caps.
In SS Hagrid is the first to tell Harry he looks like his dad but has his mum's eyes (SS Scholastic Hardbound p. 47)On page 55 Hagrid says this about Voldemort and Hogwarts: "Didn't dare try takin' the school, not jus' then, anyway." After what we have learned in HBP Voldemort is very attached to Hogwarts. With Dumbledore gone now he has a chance. This may be what gets the House Elves to revolt. I hope Dobby survives! LPO
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Pamzter - Jul 4, 2006 2:59 pm (#906 of 1297)
I just can't see Molly dying. Harry needs her as the life-long, loving, devoted, mother figure he deserves. And the only logical way this can happen? As his mother-in-law. *wink*
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freshwater - Jul 4, 2006 10:12 pm (#907 of 1297)
Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
Madame Pince, I agree that Hagrid's death seems to be both likely and a significant blow for Harry (among others). But I LOVE your idea that Draco will be rescued by Hermione...having to thank a mudblood for saving his life....having a lifedebt to a mudblood....it's just such poetic justice! **grin**
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Solitaire - Jul 4, 2006 10:40 pm (#908 of 1297)
I like that idea, Freshwater.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 5, 2006 11:24 am (#909 of 1297)
Harry is no reason for Molly not to buy the farm. Harry has never expressed any interest in having a family of his own someday. Even when Trelawney made her 12 kids prophecy, he never thought about it. Not even, "Wow! What would I do if I had kids of my own some day?"
He has expressed a desire for his own PAST family, which is why dying would give him what he really wants, a safe wizarding world, and his parents and Sirius back. He never thinks about having a new family as an adult. That's just not in the text. It's a fan invention. And it's odd that he never does think about his future in the long term.
He doesn't need to anyway. The Weasleys already think of him that way, even though he isn't always happy with that. He clearly does not want Molly to have any parental authority over him in OotP He resents her mollycoddling, a telling choice of words. He doesn't feel like intruding on their family moment when they go to the hospital.
And going back to GoF, when Molly hugs him like a mother, he feels worse. He's ready to howl when Hermione slams the window and gets Molly off him.
So Molly is still a possibility. I am not at all sure it will be her. But it's possible. I think there's other things Jo could do that would have more impact, but I wouldn't rule it out.
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The One - Jul 5, 2006 12:11 pm (#910 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
And going back to GoF, when Molly hugs him like a mother, he feels worse. He's ready to howl when Hermione slams the window and gets Molly off him.
I do not think that is a bad thing. I think Harry needed to cry, rather than to bottle things up. olly allowed him to be a child at that time.
All kids are irritated by the fact that parents have parental authority over them at times.
Still I feel that even if Molly might die, she is expandable, it is not a maximum inpact death if it happens. For that Molly is to peripheral to the story.
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Solitaire - Jul 5, 2006 12:35 pm (#911 of 1297)
I think the reason Harry has never expressed interest in having a family is that he has no idea whether he will be alive. Harry has had other things to think about all these years, and I think he avoids thinking about positive things that may never happen for him.
Once he has vanquished Voldemort, if he is still alive, I bet he would want to have a nice family to make up for the one he had to have growing up! He loves being at the Burrow, and I think it is the sense of family he feels there.
Solitaire
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whitehound - Jul 5, 2006 6:39 pm (#912 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
Except that he *isn't* really one of the family, is he? Molly feels sorry for him having been neglected, which is to her credit, but she sees him a sort of romantic figure - he's still The BOy Who Lived to her.
We know this because she doesn't treat him like a son - she treats him far *better* than she treats her sons. She waits on Harry like a house-elf - but she doesn't even bother to remember that poor Ron hates corned beef and hates maroon, and every Christmas of his life she sends him a present he hates (a maroon jumper) because she can't be bothered to think about him as an individual.
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Pamzter - Jul 5, 2006 9:30 pm (#913 of 1297)
Don't be touching me sweet Molly! She makes Ron things that are maroon because she thinks he looks good in that color and the yarn wasn't too expensive; and it doesn't matter that he hates corned beef because it's something she cooks well, it's cheap, there's plenty of it, and it's healthy for him (well, it sticks to his bones anyway).
She is very much like my grandmum, Birdie, who had 6 sons and 3 daughters during the Great Depression. When you're poor you make due any way you can.
She also took in two of her sons' friends and doted on them more at first because they had such rotten lives and because they were so wary of everything. Once things settled on both sides, then they were treated like everyone else.
Harry's never talked about wanting a family because he's never known one. He'll finally realize what Dumbledore has been saying when he talks about him having friends. He'll realize he has a family and how much he wants to extend it.
**deep breath** The rant now ends. I love Mrs. Molly Weasley.
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Madam Pince - Jul 5, 2006 10:00 pm (#914 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Well, also Harry is only sixteen years old. I know I never thought about having a family of my own at age sixteen.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 5, 2006 10:09 pm (#915 of 1297)
Edited by Denise P. Jul 5, 2006 11:10 pm
Edit I removed a paragraph from this post. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion without another member chiding them for it. Debate the issue, debate ideas, argue but keep it friendly and don't get personal. If you have any questions, please email me [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Denise P.
Well, back to Molly, I would love to see her die, because I can't stand Molly Weasley. She's bossy, overbearing and jumps to conclusions too much. Her ranting is getting annoying and if any of the kids do marry, she'll probably be the mother-in-law from hell. I have a large family myself but I'd be ashamed to treat my kids or my husband the way Molly treats hers.
She was vindictive to Hermione when she believed something in the news over the girl she'd had as a guest in her home. The tiny egg was petty. She was nasty to the twins when she said everyone had been a prefect in the family. Next door neighbors, indeed. No wonder they go out of their way to act up. She pushed Percy day and night to go into the Ministry and make something of himself, and when he does try to do that, she's not happy, either. She terrorizes poor Arthur. He loves muggle stuff and she can't even share his interests to the extent that he can have anything in the house. He has to go tinker in the shed. I don't think she really cares two raps about muggles at all. She was bossing Sirius around in his own house. And probably the worst of all was when she told her son in front of a friend to wear garbage clothes or go naked, and told said friend to take a picture so she could laugh at him. Is she a witch or not? Why couldn't she have taken the lace off of those robes or cleaned them up a little? That has nothing to do with money. If it did, why was she so quick enough to buy Ginny a stupid pygmy puff?
If she's the one to die, the only problem is, it will be a blip on the radar. I'd like to think whoever is going to die, will have a bigger dramatic impact, but if it's her, fine and dandy. I won't miss her.
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Pamzter - Jul 5, 2006 10:59 pm (#916 of 1297)
Edited by Denise P. Jul 5, 2006 11:12 pm
Edit Line removed, see post above Denise P.
Molly was vindictive to Hermione (protecting Harry).
She was nasty to the twins when she said everyone had been a prefect in the family (forgetful in her excitement).
She pushed Percy day and night to go into the Ministry and make something of himself and when he does try to do that, she's not happy, either (would you be proud of what he's doing now?).
She terrorizes poor Arthur. He loves muggle stuff and she can't even share his interests to the extent that he can have anything in the house. He has to go tinker in the shed. (trying to protect her family from illegal activities is horrible?).
She was bossing Sirius around in his own house (good for her, he needed it, he's a jerk).
And probably the worst of all was when she told her son in front of a friend to wear garbage clothes or go naked, and told said friend to take a picture so she could laugh at him. (I don't recall that at all).
Why couldn't she have taken the lace off of those robes (she has no current fashion sense or perhaps it was a precious hand-me-down)
Why was she so quick enough to buy Ginny a stupid pygmy puff? (No evidence Mrs. Weasley bought it for her - Ginny asked for permission, but she may have bought it herself, or the twins didn't charge their mother.)
She's a mom. Not a pal.
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haymoni - Jul 6, 2006 5:52 am (#917 of 1297)
She bought Ron's dress robes 2nd hand - she said all the good ones had been picked over - I suppose she could have cleaned them up, but I thought it was more like a last minute purchase, along with all the other things she had to buy and get ready.
I don't think one Weasley child would trade a day in their house for what Harry deals with at #4 - even if they did have a vault full of gold at Gringotts.
These kids have got their priorities in order and it is because of Molly.
Having lost my own mother to cancer when she was 58 years young, perhaps I am a bit too sensitive when it comes to Molly dying. I'm the same age as Jo, so maybe she feels the same way about her mother. That may just be enough to spare Molly.
Die - Molly isn't a saint. None of us moms are - especially a Slacker like me. But I'm sorry you can't see the good in her.
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Magic Words - Jul 6, 2006 6:02 am (#918 of 1297)
Aw. I feel bad for Molly now. I agree with most of what Pamzter said. She wasn't being nasty to the twins, she was just excited and didn't think. They're the ones who asked if they were next-door neighbors. I don't recall her pushing Percy to go into the Ministry, either. I'm sure she pushed him to make something of himself, but he chose to make himself the Ministry's yes-man. Anyway, it was Arthur who had the argument that ended with Percy's leaving; Molly was the one who got torn up about it. And I wouldn't say she "terrorizes" Arthur. If he were that worried about her reaction, he wouldn't keep the stuff even in the shed. I think she does care about Muggles, too. Not to the extent Arthur does, where she wants to learn all about them, but I think the idea of a class of people being victimized offends her as much as it does any decent person. Why else would she be so active in the Order?
As for the dress robes comment (sorry, Pamzter, I remember it but not where it was, so I can't point you to it), okay, she was frustrated and not as nice about it as she could have been. But it wasn't really "in front of a friend," because Harry's more like family. And it wasn't as if she was serious about him going naked or Harry taking a picture.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 6, 2006 6:37 am (#919 of 1297)
Molly says it in Goblet of Fire, just before everyone goes off to school. She also says that she brought bottle green robes for Harry as they match his eyes. Ron then gives Pig an owl treat which it chokes on and he moans about how bad all his things are. This is the end of the chapter and the next one starts with the Weasleys, Harry and Hermione going to Kings Cross by taxi. I can't give the page number but you may be able to track it down from this. Hope it helps.
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haymoni - Jul 6, 2006 7:19 am (#920 of 1297)
I figured the comment was born out of frustration at having to do all that shopping and also feeling badly that she couldn't give her own children something nicer.
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Denise P. - Jul 6, 2006 7:34 am (#921 of 1297)
Ravenclaw Pony
:::gently points out the Molly thread and hopes the discussion regarding her moves over there::::
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KTO - Jul 6, 2006 9:56 am (#922 of 1297)
all I can say is when it is all over, I hope Ms. Jo writes something about how all the fan sites did or did not influence her!
talk about high expectations, I am impressed she is able to write at all, I myself would most likely be in a corner, knowing that whatever I did, there would be thousands who thought I should have gone in the oppossite direction, god bless her!
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Choices - Jul 6, 2006 10:40 am (#923 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Page 156 of the GOF Scholastic hardback edition.....It was Ron who said he would rather go "starkers" than wear the robes Molly bought and she told him fine, she wanted a picture of that for a good laugh. I see nothing wrong with Molly - I love her and think she is a wonderful mother and I hope for her children's sake, and for Harry's, that she does not die. I don't wish death for any of the characters (with the possible exception of Voldemort), but I know it is going to happen.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 6, 2006 11:04 am (#924 of 1297)
It's a war, and people are going to get killed. That's what war is. Jo has added two people to the death toll that weren't originally on there. That means probably, that there are actually more than two deaths. In my opinion, we saw in HBP that the mnor deaths don't have much impact. (Amelia Bones, for example. It didn't even matter to Harry. If it had, he could have at least offered Susan condolances.) That means the deaths in book seven, to be more dramatic, have to be more major characters. I think Ron and Hemrione are pretty safe, since Jo has been so outgoing about R/Hr. I could be wrong, but I just get a survivior vibe with them. Charlie, Fleur, Susan, Justin, Colin, and people like that just aren't big enough to cause any angst as I see it.
So the deaths must be someone else. Jo also implied they were good guys she was talking about, so that kind of leaves out Lucius, Snape, Draco, Bella, Peter, etc. They well may die, but I don't think she was talking about them in this particular interview.
Arthur has already been close to death, and so has Bill. That would be redundant to me. Molly, Ginny, Neville, Luna, Lupin, Hagrid and McGonagall would all fit.
Anyone else want to break it down this way? We started to but we got sidetracked. We could maybe go back to listing who is likely, not likely, and why you all think so.
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Magic Words - Jul 6, 2006 11:29 am (#925 of 1297)
I don't wish death on Voldemort, either. We need to find one of those fates worse than death that Dumbledore hinted at, and saddle him with it. Peter, Bellatrix, Lucius, and Fenrir Greyback had better kick the bucket, though. The more I think about Fenrir Greyback the more I despise him. He needs to be eaten alive by something of Hagrid's.
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wynnleaf - Jul 6, 2006 11:30 am (#926 of 1297)
Jo has added two people to the death toll that weren't originally on there. That means probably, that there are actually more than two deaths.
Die Zimtzicke, I'm glad you said that. I keep trying to emphasize that point, as I think since the interview people are sort of fixating on Two Deaths. Anyway, I think your breaking down of the possibilities makes sense, although I wouldn't be surprised if Ron or Hermione died -- particularly Ron.
I'd take one off of your list -- Lupin. I think once she put him together with Tonks he was maybe safe. I'm only thinking that because by the time it's over probably all of the other Marauders (including Peter) will be dead. Lupin's had a hard life. I think she might let him live and let Tonks live, too. I don't think she'd have had him get into a relationship with Tonks right at the end of HBP -- finally give him some happiness -- only to then kill him or Tonks.
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Steve Newton - Jul 6, 2006 11:34 am (#927 of 1297)
Librarian
Its probably just me, but when she said that 2 were going to die who weren't originally supposed to I sort of joined the 2 as a pair. Like Seamus and Dean, Molly and Arthur, or, gulp, Fred and George.
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Holly T. - Jul 6, 2006 11:34 am (#928 of 1297)
I think Luna and Hagrid are going to die--I suspected Hagrid might die as early as book 5!
I also think Lucius, Bellatrix, and Peter are all going to die.
I suspect Draco is the one who gets a reprieve.
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haymoni - Jul 6, 2006 12:05 pm (#929 of 1297)
I think Luna may be OK because of the comment that she will always frighten Neville.
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Madam Pince - Jul 6, 2006 8:34 pm (#930 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Isn't it so funny how we can interpret things differently? Wynnleaf, I took the Lupin/Tonks pairing as exactly the opposite -- a perfect excuse for "offing" one or both of them instead of a reason to keep them alive. The whole "war-romance-death" thing... But I hope you're right!
I have to say that Molly has been a bit annoying to me as well, mainly her being so bossy. But I look at it this way -- she does it because she wants to better the lives of those she loves. I had an aunt who was exactly like that -- bossy and overbearing in trying to help everyone avoid mistakes. Because I loved her, I understood the motivation and forgave her, but it was still annoying sometimes... I don't think Molly will be one to die, though; mostly because I don't see it as being tragic enough. I think Harry loves her and appreciates her, but he doesn't think of her as his mother. So I don't see how her death would advance the plot any -- not enough of a "hurt" to Harry, and not really crucial to anything like Voldy's defeat or whatever.
I have always wondered why somebody didn't do something about Ron's secondhand dress robes before the Yule Ball. They had time... they are witches/wizards... and even if they weren't, how hard is it to cut off or even tear off that disgusting lace? I'm a Slacker Mom and even I could've done that...
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Solitaire - Jul 6, 2006 10:17 pm (#931 of 1297)
Lupin. I think once she put him together with Tonks he was maybe safe
But Ron has been put together with Hermione ... wouldn't that logic make him/them safe? I do agree that the "two deaths" that were mentioned are going to be two characters who are closer to Harry. I think there will be many other deaths--this being a war and all--but I suspect they will be characters who have had less "face time" in the stories.
I have a really strong feeling that Hagrid will die. Luna does not jump to the front of my list only because I do not think her death would shake Harry to the core in quite the same way other deaths (Ron, Hermione, Neville, Ginny, even Remus) would do. JM2K, of course ...
Solitaire
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 7, 2006 1:26 am (#932 of 1297)
I think that Bella is going to kill Draco, his behaviour up on the astronomy tower shows that he may be seen as too unreliable to live. Remember Bella is ever so slightly unhindged. What this does to Snape and/or Cissy is yet to be seen.
I to think that the reprieve/two deaths are good guys (or girls). I have been convinced that Harry is going to die sacrificing himself to kill Voldemort. Could he be the reprived character? If Ron or Hermione were to die then it would be in the final battle.
Is Ginny going to die? I think so (though she could be reprieved) as she is too close to Harry to live. Remus and Hagrid are my other two main candidates. Possibly Tonks as she is so close to them in age. But don't rule out Fleur (and Krum).
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Lavandula - Jul 7, 2006 5:24 am (#933 of 1297)
Elementary Teacher
Steve, I know a lot of people are thinking as you about the 2 deaths being lumped together as a unit. I personally had not thought about that however. I interpreted her comment to mean that 2 additional characters would be killed in addition to others already planned.
I don't want to get off track here with the Molly issue again, but she sure reminds me of my own mother. She is strict with her own children and appears to me more caring with their friends. The comments about her trying her best to care for her children with limited finances sure makes sense to me. I bet many of us can relate to her kind of mothering.
I think what is important to remember in a discussion about who will die is what evidence is there to support this death.
I can think of several places of foreshadowing with Hagrid. If you follow the Alchemy thread at all, there is the red process to consider. He also made some comments (not exactly sure where) when he was off with the giants that everyone got on well without him. Being the Keeper of the Keys at Hogwarts sure makes it possible for Voldemort to take over with Dumbledore and him out of the way. Who else would be left to guard the place?
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wynnleaf - Jul 7, 2006 7:46 am (#934 of 1297)
Lupin. I think once she put him together with Tonks he was maybe safe
But Ron has been put together with Hermione ... wouldn't that logic make him/them safe?
Solitaire and Madam Pince, of course it's just an idea I had. But the reason I thought it sort of made Lupin (and therefore Tonks) "safe" wasn't so much because they'd become a couple -- then any couple would be "safe." It was because JKR had written Lupin to have such a hard life, and he'd lost all his closest friends and just at the end of HBP had given him a relationship with Tonks. So it would seem particularly cruel to that character to suddenly kill him off, or strip him of yet another relationship.
Ron and Hermione aren't the same, since they've had relatively happy lives so far, without much personal pain and loss.
It's always sad to see one character mourn another character. But it would seem rather cruel for that to happen to Lupin if Tonks died. Also, I thought JKR might want to keep at least one of the Marauders alive at the end of the books.
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Madam Pince - Jul 7, 2006 9:33 am (#935 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
You know, maybe it is too Star Wars-ish again, but I was picturing something of a passing-of-the-wand type of thing between the "old" Marauders and the "new" Marauders. But then again that's maybe channeling too much of the Yoda-Obi Wan-Young Darth Vader ghosts smiling and waving...
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Solitaire - Jul 7, 2006 10:59 am (#936 of 1297)
I was just thinking ... If the new Marauders echo the old Marauders ... does that mean one will die in this war? I sure hope not.
Solitaire
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Denise P. - Jul 7, 2006 12:34 pm (#937 of 1297)
Ravenclaw Pony
I think Lupin may very well die. I thought that as soon as Sirius was killed.
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haymoni - Jul 7, 2006 12:46 pm (#938 of 1297)
I said this before but the thought of Lupin going through life taking that potion and having folks treat him poorly - even with the love of Tonks - it's just too sad.
I could see them both dying.
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Steve Newton - Jul 7, 2006 1:10 pm (#939 of 1297)
Librarian
I think that we will see the end of the Marauders. Peter and Lupin will exit.
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Thom Matheson - Jul 7, 2006 7:52 pm (#940 of 1297)
I'm thinking Hagrid for all the reasons already stated. The other for me is Snape. I don't necessarily see him in a good versus evil battle but more a working up the chain as Voldemort's favorite fight with Bella. The reprieve would be Draco. In a fight with Harry, Draoc loses, Harry show mercy, for Dumblerdore's sake, and turns him loose.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 7, 2006 8:42 pm (#941 of 1297)
I don't think it's Ron because had that interview in 2000, for TIME, where she was talkign about what kids ask her most often and she said people were always asking her if she was going to kill Ron. Her reply was, "As if I'd kill Harry's best friend!"
I think she meant that, and if she hadn't of meant it, she would have been even trickier about how she said it. If she planned to kill him all along, I think she would have avoided bringing that up. And I do NOT think he's one of the ones she changed her mind about. He's too important to flip flop on so close to the end.
Just My Honest Opinion.
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freshwater - Jul 7, 2006 9:05 pm (#942 of 1297)
Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
Magic Words wrote: "The more I think about Fenrir Greyback the more I despise him. He needs to be eaten alive by something of Hagrid's."
I LOVE that idea, Magic Words! Another case of truly poetic justice! Maybe one of the screwts survived and is living in the Forbidden Forest....or maybe the giant squid or one of Charlie's dragons...
Wynnleaf, I agree with your reasoning about Lupin/Tonks. I think one of the Marauders --particularly the one who did not actively engage in the tormenting of Snape-- needs to survive LV and go on to have a happy, fulfilled life. And Lupin need not have a miserable life as a werewolf. Even with his shabby treatment up to now I'm sure he'd say that he'd rather be alive than dead. And after the disposal of LV --and the resulting shakeup in Min. of Magic-- werewolf legislation may change and treatments may improve. I think that Lupin and Tonks will be a sort of symbol of renewed possibilities for the wizarding world after LV.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jul 7, 2006 10:47 pm (#943 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"He needs to be eaten alive by something of Hagrid's."
And give the poor critter indigestion? Now a spider would be a different story...
...toddles off a thinking of well fed spider...
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Solitaire - Jul 7, 2006 11:41 pm (#944 of 1297)
Ooooh, yeah! Chase him into the forest and let the Centaurs have a crack at him ... or Aragog's children. I like it!
Solitaire
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Laura W - Jul 8, 2006 1:23 am (#945 of 1297)
"And Lupin need not have a miserable life as a werewolf. Even with his shabby treatment up to now I'm sure he'd say that he'd rather be alive than dead. And after the disposal of LV --and the resulting shakeup in Min. of Magic-- werewolf legislation may change and treatments may improve."
Thank you for writing this, freshwater. I don't know if this is how things will turn out, but I'm so please you raised this possibility.
Laura
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Madam Pince - Jul 8, 2006 9:23 am (#946 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Of course, if he dies heroically, there could still be changes in werewolf legislation, dedicated posthumously to Lupin...
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 8, 2006 2:35 pm (#947 of 1297)
I hope Lupin survives and Tonks becomes a master potions maker. She can make the Wolfsbane potion for Lupin.
If Snape is Dumbledore's man I think the only way he will prove it is to die for the cause.
I agree with Freshwater and Laura. There will be a major shake up. I think it is foreshadowed in OoP with the destruction of the Fountain of Magical Brethren. Dumbledore says on p. 834 "We wizards have mistreated and abused our fellows too long, and we are now reaping our reward." I'm afraid without Dumbledore many other magical creatures will not side with the Witches and Wizards. LPO
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wynnleaf - Jul 8, 2006 6:35 pm (#948 of 1297)
If Snape is Dumbledore's man I think the only way he will prove it is to die for the cause.
That would be very sad, because it would mean that DD got him into this mess of being seen to be a murderer and traitor, without leaving him any way out of it.
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Solitaire - Jul 8, 2006 10:30 pm (#949 of 1297)
When Snape himself delivered what he heard of the prophecy to Voldemort, he set in motion a chain of events he was unable to stop. Yes, he did step in and attempt to prevent Voldemort from achieving his ends. Alas, sometimes the consequences of our actions are going to play out even though we have long since repented of those actions and made a change in our ways. Unfortunately, Snape--and others who have entered his orbit over the years--are now reaping the consequences of his original actions. Well, that's how I see it.
Solitaire
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wynnleaf - Jul 9, 2006 6:02 am (#950 of 1297)
So even if Snape is on the good side, basically you're saying that because 20 years before, Snape was a DE and took the partial prophecy to LV, everything that happens to him is his own fault. So DD -- the leader of the Order -- bears no responsibility for the plans that he makes that involve Snape?
I'm glad DD believes in forgiveness and second chances. Actually, I'm fairly sure DD wouldn't create a plan to put one of his Order members in such a dire position without any way out -- but that's because DD probably does see his own responsibility to those who serve under him. How terrible to have a leader whose attitude could be "You got yourself into this 20 years ago. I can put you into whatever danger pleases my plan without any personal responsibility. It's all your own fault if my plan makes you a pariah to the side your serving."
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Hagrid makes the most sense..Black, white, red. Only way to reach the goal. I only hope for Harry's sake the one closest to him is also the one getting the repreive. The poor kid has had enough.
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Magic Words - Jul 3, 2006 7:17 pm (#902 of 1297)
Personally I think Voldy will try to take over Hogwarts. Hagrid won't leave Hogwarts. He may die defending it. -LPO
Oh... LPO, you're right. He's Keeper of the Keys, isn't he? He guards the entrance.
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Bittersweet - Jul 3, 2006 7:58 pm (#903 of 1297)
I haven't logged on in a very long time, and can't possibly read through 25,000 posts to see if there's been a discussion about the possibility of JKR killing Harry in the end. She scared the daylights out of me in her most recent interview. I was talking to one of my middle school students about it, and he's very worried. He said that if Harry dies, he won't let his own children read Harry Potter when he grows up. Whether that comes to pass or not, I think it's a good indicator of the level of unhappiness that Harry's death would cause.
Can you guys steer me in the right direction?
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Solitaire - Jul 3, 2006 9:47 pm (#904 of 1297)
Bittersweet, there are all kinds of discussions about that. I would check the following threads, just for a starter: Harry Potter, Who will die in books 6/7, In the End, Connections between Harry & Voldemort, Horcruxes. Alas, even these few threads are a lot of reading. Happy Trails ...
Solitaire
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 4, 2006 2:41 pm (#905 of 1297)
Bittersweet I understand your concern. One of my Middle School students read the Bartimaeus Trilogy by Jonathan Stroud and he was appalled (I highly recommend the series). If Harry dies those of us in education will really have to wear our counseling caps.
In SS Hagrid is the first to tell Harry he looks like his dad but has his mum's eyes (SS Scholastic Hardbound p. 47)On page 55 Hagrid says this about Voldemort and Hogwarts: "Didn't dare try takin' the school, not jus' then, anyway." After what we have learned in HBP Voldemort is very attached to Hogwarts. With Dumbledore gone now he has a chance. This may be what gets the House Elves to revolt. I hope Dobby survives! LPO
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Pamzter - Jul 4, 2006 2:59 pm (#906 of 1297)
I just can't see Molly dying. Harry needs her as the life-long, loving, devoted, mother figure he deserves. And the only logical way this can happen? As his mother-in-law. *wink*
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freshwater - Jul 4, 2006 10:12 pm (#907 of 1297)
Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
Madame Pince, I agree that Hagrid's death seems to be both likely and a significant blow for Harry (among others). But I LOVE your idea that Draco will be rescued by Hermione...having to thank a mudblood for saving his life....having a lifedebt to a mudblood....it's just such poetic justice! **grin**
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Solitaire - Jul 4, 2006 10:40 pm (#908 of 1297)
I like that idea, Freshwater.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 5, 2006 11:24 am (#909 of 1297)
Harry is no reason for Molly not to buy the farm. Harry has never expressed any interest in having a family of his own someday. Even when Trelawney made her 12 kids prophecy, he never thought about it. Not even, "Wow! What would I do if I had kids of my own some day?"
He has expressed a desire for his own PAST family, which is why dying would give him what he really wants, a safe wizarding world, and his parents and Sirius back. He never thinks about having a new family as an adult. That's just not in the text. It's a fan invention. And it's odd that he never does think about his future in the long term.
He doesn't need to anyway. The Weasleys already think of him that way, even though he isn't always happy with that. He clearly does not want Molly to have any parental authority over him in OotP He resents her mollycoddling, a telling choice of words. He doesn't feel like intruding on their family moment when they go to the hospital.
And going back to GoF, when Molly hugs him like a mother, he feels worse. He's ready to howl when Hermione slams the window and gets Molly off him.
So Molly is still a possibility. I am not at all sure it will be her. But it's possible. I think there's other things Jo could do that would have more impact, but I wouldn't rule it out.
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The One - Jul 5, 2006 12:11 pm (#910 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
And going back to GoF, when Molly hugs him like a mother, he feels worse. He's ready to howl when Hermione slams the window and gets Molly off him.
I do not think that is a bad thing. I think Harry needed to cry, rather than to bottle things up. olly allowed him to be a child at that time.
All kids are irritated by the fact that parents have parental authority over them at times.
Still I feel that even if Molly might die, she is expandable, it is not a maximum inpact death if it happens. For that Molly is to peripheral to the story.
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Solitaire - Jul 5, 2006 12:35 pm (#911 of 1297)
I think the reason Harry has never expressed interest in having a family is that he has no idea whether he will be alive. Harry has had other things to think about all these years, and I think he avoids thinking about positive things that may never happen for him.
Once he has vanquished Voldemort, if he is still alive, I bet he would want to have a nice family to make up for the one he had to have growing up! He loves being at the Burrow, and I think it is the sense of family he feels there.
Solitaire
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whitehound - Jul 5, 2006 6:39 pm (#912 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
Except that he *isn't* really one of the family, is he? Molly feels sorry for him having been neglected, which is to her credit, but she sees him a sort of romantic figure - he's still The BOy Who Lived to her.
We know this because she doesn't treat him like a son - she treats him far *better* than she treats her sons. She waits on Harry like a house-elf - but she doesn't even bother to remember that poor Ron hates corned beef and hates maroon, and every Christmas of his life she sends him a present he hates (a maroon jumper) because she can't be bothered to think about him as an individual.
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Pamzter - Jul 5, 2006 9:30 pm (#913 of 1297)
Don't be touching me sweet Molly! She makes Ron things that are maroon because she thinks he looks good in that color and the yarn wasn't too expensive; and it doesn't matter that he hates corned beef because it's something she cooks well, it's cheap, there's plenty of it, and it's healthy for him (well, it sticks to his bones anyway).
She is very much like my grandmum, Birdie, who had 6 sons and 3 daughters during the Great Depression. When you're poor you make due any way you can.
She also took in two of her sons' friends and doted on them more at first because they had such rotten lives and because they were so wary of everything. Once things settled on both sides, then they were treated like everyone else.
Harry's never talked about wanting a family because he's never known one. He'll finally realize what Dumbledore has been saying when he talks about him having friends. He'll realize he has a family and how much he wants to extend it.
**deep breath** The rant now ends. I love Mrs. Molly Weasley.
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Madam Pince - Jul 5, 2006 10:00 pm (#914 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Well, also Harry is only sixteen years old. I know I never thought about having a family of my own at age sixteen.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 5, 2006 10:09 pm (#915 of 1297)
Edited by Denise P. Jul 5, 2006 11:10 pm
Edit I removed a paragraph from this post. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion without another member chiding them for it. Debate the issue, debate ideas, argue but keep it friendly and don't get personal. If you have any questions, please email me [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Denise P.
Well, back to Molly, I would love to see her die, because I can't stand Molly Weasley. She's bossy, overbearing and jumps to conclusions too much. Her ranting is getting annoying and if any of the kids do marry, she'll probably be the mother-in-law from hell. I have a large family myself but I'd be ashamed to treat my kids or my husband the way Molly treats hers.
She was vindictive to Hermione when she believed something in the news over the girl she'd had as a guest in her home. The tiny egg was petty. She was nasty to the twins when she said everyone had been a prefect in the family. Next door neighbors, indeed. No wonder they go out of their way to act up. She pushed Percy day and night to go into the Ministry and make something of himself, and when he does try to do that, she's not happy, either. She terrorizes poor Arthur. He loves muggle stuff and she can't even share his interests to the extent that he can have anything in the house. He has to go tinker in the shed. I don't think she really cares two raps about muggles at all. She was bossing Sirius around in his own house. And probably the worst of all was when she told her son in front of a friend to wear garbage clothes or go naked, and told said friend to take a picture so she could laugh at him. Is she a witch or not? Why couldn't she have taken the lace off of those robes or cleaned them up a little? That has nothing to do with money. If it did, why was she so quick enough to buy Ginny a stupid pygmy puff?
If she's the one to die, the only problem is, it will be a blip on the radar. I'd like to think whoever is going to die, will have a bigger dramatic impact, but if it's her, fine and dandy. I won't miss her.
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Pamzter - Jul 5, 2006 10:59 pm (#916 of 1297)
Edited by Denise P. Jul 5, 2006 11:12 pm
Edit Line removed, see post above Denise P.
Molly was vindictive to Hermione (protecting Harry).
She was nasty to the twins when she said everyone had been a prefect in the family (forgetful in her excitement).
She pushed Percy day and night to go into the Ministry and make something of himself and when he does try to do that, she's not happy, either (would you be proud of what he's doing now?).
She terrorizes poor Arthur. He loves muggle stuff and she can't even share his interests to the extent that he can have anything in the house. He has to go tinker in the shed. (trying to protect her family from illegal activities is horrible?).
She was bossing Sirius around in his own house (good for her, he needed it, he's a jerk).
And probably the worst of all was when she told her son in front of a friend to wear garbage clothes or go naked, and told said friend to take a picture so she could laugh at him. (I don't recall that at all).
Why couldn't she have taken the lace off of those robes (she has no current fashion sense or perhaps it was a precious hand-me-down)
Why was she so quick enough to buy Ginny a stupid pygmy puff? (No evidence Mrs. Weasley bought it for her - Ginny asked for permission, but she may have bought it herself, or the twins didn't charge their mother.)
She's a mom. Not a pal.
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haymoni - Jul 6, 2006 5:52 am (#917 of 1297)
She bought Ron's dress robes 2nd hand - she said all the good ones had been picked over - I suppose she could have cleaned them up, but I thought it was more like a last minute purchase, along with all the other things she had to buy and get ready.
I don't think one Weasley child would trade a day in their house for what Harry deals with at #4 - even if they did have a vault full of gold at Gringotts.
These kids have got their priorities in order and it is because of Molly.
Having lost my own mother to cancer when she was 58 years young, perhaps I am a bit too sensitive when it comes to Molly dying. I'm the same age as Jo, so maybe she feels the same way about her mother. That may just be enough to spare Molly.
Die - Molly isn't a saint. None of us moms are - especially a Slacker like me. But I'm sorry you can't see the good in her.
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Magic Words - Jul 6, 2006 6:02 am (#918 of 1297)
Aw. I feel bad for Molly now. I agree with most of what Pamzter said. She wasn't being nasty to the twins, she was just excited and didn't think. They're the ones who asked if they were next-door neighbors. I don't recall her pushing Percy to go into the Ministry, either. I'm sure she pushed him to make something of himself, but he chose to make himself the Ministry's yes-man. Anyway, it was Arthur who had the argument that ended with Percy's leaving; Molly was the one who got torn up about it. And I wouldn't say she "terrorizes" Arthur. If he were that worried about her reaction, he wouldn't keep the stuff even in the shed. I think she does care about Muggles, too. Not to the extent Arthur does, where she wants to learn all about them, but I think the idea of a class of people being victimized offends her as much as it does any decent person. Why else would she be so active in the Order?
As for the dress robes comment (sorry, Pamzter, I remember it but not where it was, so I can't point you to it), okay, she was frustrated and not as nice about it as she could have been. But it wasn't really "in front of a friend," because Harry's more like family. And it wasn't as if she was serious about him going naked or Harry taking a picture.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 6, 2006 6:37 am (#919 of 1297)
Molly says it in Goblet of Fire, just before everyone goes off to school. She also says that she brought bottle green robes for Harry as they match his eyes. Ron then gives Pig an owl treat which it chokes on and he moans about how bad all his things are. This is the end of the chapter and the next one starts with the Weasleys, Harry and Hermione going to Kings Cross by taxi. I can't give the page number but you may be able to track it down from this. Hope it helps.
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haymoni - Jul 6, 2006 7:19 am (#920 of 1297)
I figured the comment was born out of frustration at having to do all that shopping and also feeling badly that she couldn't give her own children something nicer.
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Denise P. - Jul 6, 2006 7:34 am (#921 of 1297)
Ravenclaw Pony
:::gently points out the Molly thread and hopes the discussion regarding her moves over there::::
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KTO - Jul 6, 2006 9:56 am (#922 of 1297)
all I can say is when it is all over, I hope Ms. Jo writes something about how all the fan sites did or did not influence her!
talk about high expectations, I am impressed she is able to write at all, I myself would most likely be in a corner, knowing that whatever I did, there would be thousands who thought I should have gone in the oppossite direction, god bless her!
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Choices - Jul 6, 2006 10:40 am (#923 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Page 156 of the GOF Scholastic hardback edition.....It was Ron who said he would rather go "starkers" than wear the robes Molly bought and she told him fine, she wanted a picture of that for a good laugh. I see nothing wrong with Molly - I love her and think she is a wonderful mother and I hope for her children's sake, and for Harry's, that she does not die. I don't wish death for any of the characters (with the possible exception of Voldemort), but I know it is going to happen.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 6, 2006 11:04 am (#924 of 1297)
It's a war, and people are going to get killed. That's what war is. Jo has added two people to the death toll that weren't originally on there. That means probably, that there are actually more than two deaths. In my opinion, we saw in HBP that the mnor deaths don't have much impact. (Amelia Bones, for example. It didn't even matter to Harry. If it had, he could have at least offered Susan condolances.) That means the deaths in book seven, to be more dramatic, have to be more major characters. I think Ron and Hemrione are pretty safe, since Jo has been so outgoing about R/Hr. I could be wrong, but I just get a survivior vibe with them. Charlie, Fleur, Susan, Justin, Colin, and people like that just aren't big enough to cause any angst as I see it.
So the deaths must be someone else. Jo also implied they were good guys she was talking about, so that kind of leaves out Lucius, Snape, Draco, Bella, Peter, etc. They well may die, but I don't think she was talking about them in this particular interview.
Arthur has already been close to death, and so has Bill. That would be redundant to me. Molly, Ginny, Neville, Luna, Lupin, Hagrid and McGonagall would all fit.
Anyone else want to break it down this way? We started to but we got sidetracked. We could maybe go back to listing who is likely, not likely, and why you all think so.
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Magic Words - Jul 6, 2006 11:29 am (#925 of 1297)
I don't wish death on Voldemort, either. We need to find one of those fates worse than death that Dumbledore hinted at, and saddle him with it. Peter, Bellatrix, Lucius, and Fenrir Greyback had better kick the bucket, though. The more I think about Fenrir Greyback the more I despise him. He needs to be eaten alive by something of Hagrid's.
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wynnleaf - Jul 6, 2006 11:30 am (#926 of 1297)
Jo has added two people to the death toll that weren't originally on there. That means probably, that there are actually more than two deaths.
Die Zimtzicke, I'm glad you said that. I keep trying to emphasize that point, as I think since the interview people are sort of fixating on Two Deaths. Anyway, I think your breaking down of the possibilities makes sense, although I wouldn't be surprised if Ron or Hermione died -- particularly Ron.
I'd take one off of your list -- Lupin. I think once she put him together with Tonks he was maybe safe. I'm only thinking that because by the time it's over probably all of the other Marauders (including Peter) will be dead. Lupin's had a hard life. I think she might let him live and let Tonks live, too. I don't think she'd have had him get into a relationship with Tonks right at the end of HBP -- finally give him some happiness -- only to then kill him or Tonks.
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Steve Newton - Jul 6, 2006 11:34 am (#927 of 1297)
Librarian
Its probably just me, but when she said that 2 were going to die who weren't originally supposed to I sort of joined the 2 as a pair. Like Seamus and Dean, Molly and Arthur, or, gulp, Fred and George.
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Holly T. - Jul 6, 2006 11:34 am (#928 of 1297)
I think Luna and Hagrid are going to die--I suspected Hagrid might die as early as book 5!
I also think Lucius, Bellatrix, and Peter are all going to die.
I suspect Draco is the one who gets a reprieve.
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haymoni - Jul 6, 2006 12:05 pm (#929 of 1297)
I think Luna may be OK because of the comment that she will always frighten Neville.
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Madam Pince - Jul 6, 2006 8:34 pm (#930 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Isn't it so funny how we can interpret things differently? Wynnleaf, I took the Lupin/Tonks pairing as exactly the opposite -- a perfect excuse for "offing" one or both of them instead of a reason to keep them alive. The whole "war-romance-death" thing... But I hope you're right!
I have to say that Molly has been a bit annoying to me as well, mainly her being so bossy. But I look at it this way -- she does it because she wants to better the lives of those she loves. I had an aunt who was exactly like that -- bossy and overbearing in trying to help everyone avoid mistakes. Because I loved her, I understood the motivation and forgave her, but it was still annoying sometimes... I don't think Molly will be one to die, though; mostly because I don't see it as being tragic enough. I think Harry loves her and appreciates her, but he doesn't think of her as his mother. So I don't see how her death would advance the plot any -- not enough of a "hurt" to Harry, and not really crucial to anything like Voldy's defeat or whatever.
I have always wondered why somebody didn't do something about Ron's secondhand dress robes before the Yule Ball. They had time... they are witches/wizards... and even if they weren't, how hard is it to cut off or even tear off that disgusting lace? I'm a Slacker Mom and even I could've done that...
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Solitaire - Jul 6, 2006 10:17 pm (#931 of 1297)
Lupin. I think once she put him together with Tonks he was maybe safe
But Ron has been put together with Hermione ... wouldn't that logic make him/them safe? I do agree that the "two deaths" that were mentioned are going to be two characters who are closer to Harry. I think there will be many other deaths--this being a war and all--but I suspect they will be characters who have had less "face time" in the stories.
I have a really strong feeling that Hagrid will die. Luna does not jump to the front of my list only because I do not think her death would shake Harry to the core in quite the same way other deaths (Ron, Hermione, Neville, Ginny, even Remus) would do. JM2K, of course ...
Solitaire
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 7, 2006 1:26 am (#932 of 1297)
I think that Bella is going to kill Draco, his behaviour up on the astronomy tower shows that he may be seen as too unreliable to live. Remember Bella is ever so slightly unhindged. What this does to Snape and/or Cissy is yet to be seen.
I to think that the reprieve/two deaths are good guys (or girls). I have been convinced that Harry is going to die sacrificing himself to kill Voldemort. Could he be the reprived character? If Ron or Hermione were to die then it would be in the final battle.
Is Ginny going to die? I think so (though she could be reprieved) as she is too close to Harry to live. Remus and Hagrid are my other two main candidates. Possibly Tonks as she is so close to them in age. But don't rule out Fleur (and Krum).
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Lavandula - Jul 7, 2006 5:24 am (#933 of 1297)
Elementary Teacher
Steve, I know a lot of people are thinking as you about the 2 deaths being lumped together as a unit. I personally had not thought about that however. I interpreted her comment to mean that 2 additional characters would be killed in addition to others already planned.
I don't want to get off track here with the Molly issue again, but she sure reminds me of my own mother. She is strict with her own children and appears to me more caring with their friends. The comments about her trying her best to care for her children with limited finances sure makes sense to me. I bet many of us can relate to her kind of mothering.
I think what is important to remember in a discussion about who will die is what evidence is there to support this death.
I can think of several places of foreshadowing with Hagrid. If you follow the Alchemy thread at all, there is the red process to consider. He also made some comments (not exactly sure where) when he was off with the giants that everyone got on well without him. Being the Keeper of the Keys at Hogwarts sure makes it possible for Voldemort to take over with Dumbledore and him out of the way. Who else would be left to guard the place?
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wynnleaf - Jul 7, 2006 7:46 am (#934 of 1297)
Lupin. I think once she put him together with Tonks he was maybe safe
But Ron has been put together with Hermione ... wouldn't that logic make him/them safe?
Solitaire and Madam Pince, of course it's just an idea I had. But the reason I thought it sort of made Lupin (and therefore Tonks) "safe" wasn't so much because they'd become a couple -- then any couple would be "safe." It was because JKR had written Lupin to have such a hard life, and he'd lost all his closest friends and just at the end of HBP had given him a relationship with Tonks. So it would seem particularly cruel to that character to suddenly kill him off, or strip him of yet another relationship.
Ron and Hermione aren't the same, since they've had relatively happy lives so far, without much personal pain and loss.
It's always sad to see one character mourn another character. But it would seem rather cruel for that to happen to Lupin if Tonks died. Also, I thought JKR might want to keep at least one of the Marauders alive at the end of the books.
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Madam Pince - Jul 7, 2006 9:33 am (#935 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
You know, maybe it is too Star Wars-ish again, but I was picturing something of a passing-of-the-wand type of thing between the "old" Marauders and the "new" Marauders. But then again that's maybe channeling too much of the Yoda-Obi Wan-Young Darth Vader ghosts smiling and waving...
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Solitaire - Jul 7, 2006 10:59 am (#936 of 1297)
I was just thinking ... If the new Marauders echo the old Marauders ... does that mean one will die in this war? I sure hope not.
Solitaire
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Denise P. - Jul 7, 2006 12:34 pm (#937 of 1297)
Ravenclaw Pony
I think Lupin may very well die. I thought that as soon as Sirius was killed.
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haymoni - Jul 7, 2006 12:46 pm (#938 of 1297)
I said this before but the thought of Lupin going through life taking that potion and having folks treat him poorly - even with the love of Tonks - it's just too sad.
I could see them both dying.
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Steve Newton - Jul 7, 2006 1:10 pm (#939 of 1297)
Librarian
I think that we will see the end of the Marauders. Peter and Lupin will exit.
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Thom Matheson - Jul 7, 2006 7:52 pm (#940 of 1297)
I'm thinking Hagrid for all the reasons already stated. The other for me is Snape. I don't necessarily see him in a good versus evil battle but more a working up the chain as Voldemort's favorite fight with Bella. The reprieve would be Draco. In a fight with Harry, Draoc loses, Harry show mercy, for Dumblerdore's sake, and turns him loose.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 7, 2006 8:42 pm (#941 of 1297)
I don't think it's Ron because had that interview in 2000, for TIME, where she was talkign about what kids ask her most often and she said people were always asking her if she was going to kill Ron. Her reply was, "As if I'd kill Harry's best friend!"
I think she meant that, and if she hadn't of meant it, she would have been even trickier about how she said it. If she planned to kill him all along, I think she would have avoided bringing that up. And I do NOT think he's one of the ones she changed her mind about. He's too important to flip flop on so close to the end.
Just My Honest Opinion.
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freshwater - Jul 7, 2006 9:05 pm (#942 of 1297)
Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
Magic Words wrote: "The more I think about Fenrir Greyback the more I despise him. He needs to be eaten alive by something of Hagrid's."
I LOVE that idea, Magic Words! Another case of truly poetic justice! Maybe one of the screwts survived and is living in the Forbidden Forest....or maybe the giant squid or one of Charlie's dragons...
Wynnleaf, I agree with your reasoning about Lupin/Tonks. I think one of the Marauders --particularly the one who did not actively engage in the tormenting of Snape-- needs to survive LV and go on to have a happy, fulfilled life. And Lupin need not have a miserable life as a werewolf. Even with his shabby treatment up to now I'm sure he'd say that he'd rather be alive than dead. And after the disposal of LV --and the resulting shakeup in Min. of Magic-- werewolf legislation may change and treatments may improve. I think that Lupin and Tonks will be a sort of symbol of renewed possibilities for the wizarding world after LV.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jul 7, 2006 10:47 pm (#943 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"He needs to be eaten alive by something of Hagrid's."
And give the poor critter indigestion? Now a spider would be a different story...
...toddles off a thinking of well fed spider...
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Solitaire - Jul 7, 2006 11:41 pm (#944 of 1297)
Ooooh, yeah! Chase him into the forest and let the Centaurs have a crack at him ... or Aragog's children. I like it!
Solitaire
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Laura W - Jul 8, 2006 1:23 am (#945 of 1297)
"And Lupin need not have a miserable life as a werewolf. Even with his shabby treatment up to now I'm sure he'd say that he'd rather be alive than dead. And after the disposal of LV --and the resulting shakeup in Min. of Magic-- werewolf legislation may change and treatments may improve."
Thank you for writing this, freshwater. I don't know if this is how things will turn out, but I'm so please you raised this possibility.
Laura
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Madam Pince - Jul 8, 2006 9:23 am (#946 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Of course, if he dies heroically, there could still be changes in werewolf legislation, dedicated posthumously to Lupin...
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 8, 2006 2:35 pm (#947 of 1297)
I hope Lupin survives and Tonks becomes a master potions maker. She can make the Wolfsbane potion for Lupin.
If Snape is Dumbledore's man I think the only way he will prove it is to die for the cause.
I agree with Freshwater and Laura. There will be a major shake up. I think it is foreshadowed in OoP with the destruction of the Fountain of Magical Brethren. Dumbledore says on p. 834 "We wizards have mistreated and abused our fellows too long, and we are now reaping our reward." I'm afraid without Dumbledore many other magical creatures will not side with the Witches and Wizards. LPO
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wynnleaf - Jul 8, 2006 6:35 pm (#948 of 1297)
If Snape is Dumbledore's man I think the only way he will prove it is to die for the cause.
That would be very sad, because it would mean that DD got him into this mess of being seen to be a murderer and traitor, without leaving him any way out of it.
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Solitaire - Jul 8, 2006 10:30 pm (#949 of 1297)
When Snape himself delivered what he heard of the prophecy to Voldemort, he set in motion a chain of events he was unable to stop. Yes, he did step in and attempt to prevent Voldemort from achieving his ends. Alas, sometimes the consequences of our actions are going to play out even though we have long since repented of those actions and made a change in our ways. Unfortunately, Snape--and others who have entered his orbit over the years--are now reaping the consequences of his original actions. Well, that's how I see it.
Solitaire
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wynnleaf - Jul 9, 2006 6:02 am (#950 of 1297)
So even if Snape is on the good side, basically you're saying that because 20 years before, Snape was a DE and took the partial prophecy to LV, everything that happens to him is his own fault. So DD -- the leader of the Order -- bears no responsibility for the plans that he makes that involve Snape?
I'm glad DD believes in forgiveness and second chances. Actually, I'm fairly sure DD wouldn't create a plan to put one of his Order members in such a dire position without any way out -- but that's because DD probably does see his own responsibility to those who serve under him. How terrible to have a leader whose attitude could be "You got yourself into this 20 years ago. I can put you into whatever danger pleases my plan without any personal responsibility. It's all your own fault if my plan makes you a pariah to the side your serving."
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 951 to 1000)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 11:01 am
Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 9, 2006 9:03 am (#951 of 1297)
I think whatever plan DD created he gave Snape a choice. I don't think DD would punish someone for a mistake of 20 years ago. DD was Snape's supporter. The other staff members trusted DD so they accepted Snape. Who will believe him now? I'm not sure if DD's plan included Snape's death. It may come to that though. How else can Snape help the Order? He can't pass information any more. No one would believe him. LPO
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Solitaire - Jul 9, 2006 11:57 am (#952 of 1297)
Now, Wynnleaf ... I think you are deliberately misunderstanding me. My point is that someone can commit murder and then repent of the deed. Even the family may forgive the murderer. I've seen it happen. Alas, there are going to be consequences, whether he is forgiven or not.
Even though Snape may have repented what he did so many years ago, the Potters died, and consequences to Harry and everyone else are playing out now. Snape, Dumbledore, Harry ... everyone who is trying to keep Harry from dying is being affected. If Voldemort had never heard that prophecy, would any of this ever have started? No one knows. The thing is, he did hear it and people are still reaping the consequences.
I do not think Dumbledore is punishing Snape. Harry certainly holds him responsible at the moment. That is understandable. Will he ever forgive him? I don't know ...
Solitaire
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Solitaire - Jul 9, 2006 2:43 pm (#953 of 1297)
I had to leave in a hurry, before I could say everything I wanted to say, so I am adding to my above post. I want to reiterate that I do not think Dumbledore is deliberately putting Snape or anyone else into jeopardy. He does not believe in punishment in that way. Unfortunately, the things that must be done to safeguard Harry are dangerous. Anyone who participates in this process, whether it be Snape or anyone else, is in danger. I think this is precisely why Dumbledore undertakes so many of the things that are done on his own, without attempting to involve anyone else.
From this vantage point, it is impossible to say that all of this would or would not have happened because of Snape's indiscretion. It might well have been that Voldemort would have continued to hunt the Potters until he killed them. Had he not known the prophecy existed, however, he might not have zeroed in on them so relentlessly. This is something only Jo knows.
I suppose that, just as everyone else's actions have consequences, so do Snape's. His double agent role puts him into the position of facing consequences from one side or the other, too. If he is discovered to be Dumbledore's man through and through, then he is dead meat as far as the DEs are concerned. Bella will leave no stone unturned to get him. If he is loyal to Voldy after all, the Order will surely take him out for killing Dumbledore. There will be consequences, one way or the other.
Solitaire
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Chemyst - Jul 9, 2006 4:50 pm (#954 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
There will be consequences, one way or the other. ~ Solitaire, on Snape
And that is what makes his death/survival hard to predict. As long as DD was alive, I thought Snape would be dying. Maybe DD's sacrifice changed things from "one way" over to "other."
I noticed in a TLC article from June 28 that Melissa and Emerson were giving their odds on the deaths. That sounds like fun, so I'll do it too.
I agree with the notion that Hagrid is likely to die. In his own way, he is Harry's mentor just as much as Dumbledore was. I'll put it at 80%. Unless… if Grawp is around, I'll drop Hagrid to 40% but Grawp goes to 95%. …and a few spiders drown in Hagrid's tears 5%.
I'd put Molly Weasley very low. Less than 10%. The main reason it is this low is that she hasn't collected any 'trophies' for all her labors yet. She has noting to show for her efforts that would make LV interested in her. Even a blood-traitor status would not earn her a high priority unless she gets in his way.
Before the interview, I'd have given Tonks a 75% chance to be killed off. She seemed introduced for the purpose of having a disposable auror that the youth could identify with. But suppose she changed her appearance to look like Lupin; then Fenrir might not know who to go for first, making it 50/50.
Before I can rate Dobby, I need to settle on his purpose. On one hand, those big eyes were just made for a tragic "I regret that I have but one life to give for my Harry" death scene. On the other hand, he is sneaky and resourceful with a powerful bit of elf-magic, so he'd probably be a step ahead of anyone who was after him. It would be more convenient if Kreacher died. And Winky may sober up long enough to try one last valiant attempt to make things right. I think thee is a 70% chance of having a house elf death; I'm just not sure which one.
And Voldemort— He will end up 100% out-of-commission, but I'm not sure that means dead. I give him a 25% chance of suffering "something worse."
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Solitaire - Jul 9, 2006 5:13 pm (#955 of 1297)
I think thee is a 70% chance of having a house elf death; I'm just not sure which one.
Oh, do let it be Kreacher! I know he so wants to have his head mounted on the wall at 12GP. It is hardly fair to deprive him of this most fitting end ... is it?
Solitaire
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wynnleaf - Jul 10, 2006 7:12 am (#956 of 1297)
Solitaire,
I apologize for misunderstanding. I was perhaps not clear initially.
Ludicrous Patents Office wrote:
If Snape is Dumbledore's man I think the only way he will prove it is to die for the cause.
When I said that would mean that DD left no other way out, this is what I meant. If Snape is DDM, then he was almost certainly acting on DD's orders when he AK'd him. And almost certainly, those orders were prearranged, at least to some extent. If DD, as the leader, told Snape that he would or might have to AK him, but without leaving any sort of evidence that Snape had acted on his orders, that would have been extremely remiss of DD as a leader. That is what I meant when I said that DD would have been a very poor and uncaring leader to do that to one of his Order members. It's one thing to have the Order members take on many dangers. It's quite another to order one to take on a service that forever condemns that person as a murderer.
Your pointing out that Snape was one of the persons that originally took the prophecy to LV is correct. Of course, he bears a responsibility for some of the problem -- although, without LV having ever heard the prophecy, LV wouldn't have been "defeated" by baby Harry at Godrics Hollow, so this only would have exchanged one set of nasty problems for another set.
But Snape's being responsible for some of the LV problem, doesn't mean that DD wouldn't be responsible for the degree of danger he puts his Order members in. Certainly Snape is in all sorts of danger, like other Order members. But that sort of goes with the job. However, it's a different thing to become a murderer permenantly in the eyes of the law, by following DD's orders. If the only way Snape can prove his loyalty is to die for the cause, that means DD never left a way for Snape to be absolved from murdering DD -- and that would be wrong, if DD ordered him to do it.
Snape may indeed die in Book 7. But I hope that would be from other plot points, or thematic needs, not because it's the only way to prove Snape's loyalty.
Oh, on who will die... I'd put 70% on Hagrid, except that I don't think JKR would leave poor Grawp with no one to watch out for him. So maybe Grawp 70% and Hagrid 50%.
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Solitaire - Jul 10, 2006 8:31 am (#957 of 1297)
without LV having ever heard the prophecy, LV wouldn't have been "defeated" by baby Harry at Godrics Hollow, so this only would have exchanged one set of nasty problems for another set
I certainly agree with this ... and Wormtail definitely plays into the whole thing, as well. At what point did he decide to betray the Potters? Was it before or after Lily became pregnant? Please do not think that I am letting him off the hook.
I'm still not entirely sure that the AK-ing was pre-arranged. Remember whom we are dealing with here. I believe Snape is as good at Legilimency as he is at Occlumency, and we know Dumbledore is "an accomplished Legilimens" by his own admission. Could a "conversation" have been taking place between Dumbledore and Snape there on the tower--a conversation no one else (including the readers) could hear? Could Dumbledore have been communicating information--and an order--to Snape? Just a thought ...
Solitaire
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Magic Words - Jul 10, 2006 8:47 am (#958 of 1297)
Solitaire, that's entirely possible. I think a plan is more likely, though, because it gives an explanation to the argument Hagrid overheard in the forest, and I find it hard to believe that Dumbledore wouldn't have come up with some sort of contingency plan once he heard about the Vow (unless Snape never told him... but in that case I doubt he would have asked Snape to kill him on the tower).
If DD, as the leader, told Snape that he would or might have to AK him, but without leaving any sort of evidence that Snape had acted on his orders, that would have been extremely remiss of DD as a leader. -Wynnleaf
When you take the Vow into account, Dumbledore's options were really extremely limited. If Snape hadn't killed him, it's likely they both would have died on the tower. Even if Dumbledore found a way to prove Snape had killed him on his orders--and that would be challenge enough, I think, coming up with something a clever DE couldn't have counterfeited--it couldn't become known until after Voldemort was defeated because of the risk that the wrong person would find out. If it's ironclad proof, Snape wouldn't be able to brush it off as keeping his cover and he'd be killed by Voldemort. If it's not ironclad, plenty of people on the good side will never accept it. A few may, and that's what I think will end up happening: Harry and co. are convinced of his innocence, they make some sort of peace between them, but Snape's name isn't cleared with the rest of the Order until his death.
It's possible, I guess, that Harry's word will carry enough weight that he can vouch for Snape and get him his life and freedom back, even if he'll never be a respected member of society.
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Chemyst - Jul 10, 2006 9:12 am (#959 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Could a "conversation" have been taking place between Dumbledore and Snape there on the tower--a conversation no one else (including the readers) could hear?
Yes, I believed that was happening as I read it for the very first time. For me, endless analyzing of that scene won't change my mind about that. It would take a direct contradiction from DD in Book 7 before I'd concede it was otherwise.
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Solitaire - Jul 10, 2006 10:04 am (#960 of 1297)
Harry's word will carry enough weight that he can vouch for Snape
What do you see happening to bring Harry to the point of doing this? He certainly is not interested in doing it right now!
Solitaire
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haymoni - Jul 10, 2006 10:07 am (#961 of 1297)
It would have to be a pensieve memory without any blurry sections like Sluggy's modified memory.
Possibly a letter, if Harry was confident that the writing was truly Dumbledore's.
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Magic Words - Jul 10, 2006 10:42 am (#962 of 1297)
The trouble with a pensieve memory is that DD said Slughorn's was modified badly. What does a memory look like if it was modified well? Even the person who experienced the unmodified version can't always tell the difference.
Solitaire, that's one of the reasons I see Snape dying: Harry trying to clear his name looks very unlikely. I say it is possible, though, because I'm sure Harry will eventually have to come to terms with his hatred for Snape.
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Madam Pince - Jul 10, 2006 11:07 am (#963 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I am sure that a "conversation" was taking place between Snape and Dumbledore there on the tower. I am also sure that there was another "between-the-lines conversation" taking place between the two of them at the end of PoA, when the kids were telling everyone what had happened in the Shrieking Shack and why Sirius was innocent. I definitely found an undercurrent going on there between Snape and Dumbledore. Can't wait to find out what it was all about! Hurry up, Book 7!
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 10, 2006 12:35 pm (#964 of 1297)
a 70% chance of having a house elf death; I'm just not sure which one. Chemyst
I think Dobby has a good chance (60%). In CoS Harry wants Dobby to promise not to try and save his life. Dobby does not promise, in the book or movie.
Hagrid 75% after he extracts a promise from the trio they will take care of Grawp! LPO
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 10, 2006 12:57 pm (#965 of 1297)
My kids get Entertainment magazine and they had an article this week (July 14th issue) on who might die, based on Jo's comments about deaths in book seven. If anyone's interested in what a mainstream media says, they wrote:
Ron 20-1 chance of dying. Ginny: 6-1 Hagrid 3-2 Hermione 50-1 Snape 2-1 Harry 9-2 Voldmeort: even odds of dying.
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whitehound - Jul 10, 2006 1:13 pm (#966 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
[Molly] makes Ron things that are maroon because she thinks he looks good in that color
Nobody with bright red hair could possibly look good in maroon - though it's probably slightly better than the orange he'd have chosen for himself. But at any rate it means that she thinks what she wants for Ron is much more important than what Ron wants for Ron, and every Christmas she gives Harry something made with love and care, and Ron something she doesn't even bother to know that he'll hate.
and the yarn wasn't too expensive;
It seems unlikely maroon would just happen to be the cheapest colour year after year.
and it doesn't matter that he hates corned beef because it's something she cooks well,
You don't cook corned beef - you just open a can.
it's cheap,
Not especially - it's no cheaper than, say, sardines, which would be far better for him, and dearer than cheese and pickle, or cucumber. It's unhealthy, it tastes nasty and it isn't all that cheap - what it is, is a lazy option, because all you have to do is open a can and slice it. It is, if you like, the British equivalent of poor-quality baloney sausage.
She is very much like my grandmum, Birdie, who had 6 sons and 3 daughters during the Great Depression. When you're poor you make due any way you can.
They aren't all that poor - and if she was really poor she wouldn't go for fairly expensive processed muck (corned beef) instead of what you make for yourself. She has her own hens - she could make Ron an egg and cress sandwich for a fraction of the cost of corned beef, if she could be bothered to.
She also took in two of her sons' friends and doted on them more at first because they had such rotten lives
In what way did Hermione have a rotten life?
Once things settled on both sides, then they were treated like everyone else.
In what way does she treat Harry like everybody else?
And Ron's awful robes can't possibly be a precious heirloom - she said she got them second hand because they were cheap. There was nothing, except laziness and not really caring enough, to stop her from trimming the ghastly lace off.
Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly dislike Molly - but like Snape, like Lupin, like Sirius, like Albus, like Harry himself, like everybody on "our" side except Cedric, she is a basically good character who is also profoundly flawed.
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haymoni - Jul 10, 2006 1:16 pm (#967 of 1297)
I always think of corned beef as a poor cut of meat - it has to be cooked forever - I just figured it was all they had. I don't think she was giving Ron corned beef and everyone else had turkey or ham.
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whitehound - Jul 10, 2006 1:17 pm (#968 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
I think Dobby has a good chance (60%). In CoS Harry wants Dobby to promise not to try and save his life. Dobby does not promise, in the book or movie.
How could he be killed, though? Lucius certainly didn't seem to have any magical defence gainst him, once Dobby was free. They seem to be extremely powerful. And no ward can stop them apparating as they please - you couldn't even kill one with an axe, unless you were incredibly fast, because it could just skip then feet sideways.
Solitaire - Jul 10, 2006 1:40 pm (#969 of 1297)[/b]
You don't cook corned beef - you just open a can.
I doubt Molly opened a can. She is described as an excellent cook. Actually, I always associate corned beef--and cabbage, of course--with St. Patrick's Day.
I do think Haymoni is right, though. It is probably a cheaper cut of meat, and that would be important when a mom has several growing boys to feed. As to the sandwiches, the meat was probably leftover from a previous dinner, so she used it to make sandwiches for the boys. I didn't always like what Mom cooked for dinner (or packed for lunch), but I ate what she made. We all did ... there were no special dishes for one finicky eater.
About that horrid robe ... I have never understood why Ron didn't just ask Hermione to help him fix it up a bit. I bet she would have done it. I suppose Ron could have sent it to her via owl post to do some "refurbishing," as well.
Solitaire
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 10, 2006 2:48 pm (#970 of 1297)
Whitehound I think all living creatures are vulnerable to the Avada Kedavra curse. LPO
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Chemyst - Jul 10, 2006 5:53 pm (#971 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
The maroon seems to be more of a color choice by default. (The color of this post is what you get when you type font color=maroon)
I'd guess that these Christmas sweaters were a Weasley tradition that started even before Ron was born. There are five older boys; six if she made a sweater for Arthur, so maroon is just another example of a "left-over" color choice determined (like so much of Ron's status) by birth order.
In our family, we had several kid's personal items that were identified by color: beach towels, breakfast cereal bowls, game boys, school folders, etc. In Molly's mind, maroon was probably the best available color left that didn't show dirt too easily. ...and in a feeble attempt to stay close to topic, I'd add that poor fashion sense isn't a crime worth dying– or killing, for.
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Madam Pince - Jul 10, 2006 6:06 pm (#972 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I cook my corned beef -- I don't open a can. I usually only do it once a year for St. Patrick's Day, but still.... As I buy it, it comes packaged rather like a roast, and is a fairly inexpensive cut of meat, as those things go, and is definitely not nasty. With cabbage and potatoes, it's a very filling, cheap, and (to me) tasty meal. I have also seen it sliced in the deli section for sandwiches. It's pretty popular for sandwiches, as I understand it. I've never seen it in a can, but then I've never looked either.
I think it's probably as Solitaire says above -- it's an inexpensive main course for a large family dinner, and any leftovers go into the next day's lunch. One person who doesn't like it probably just has to learn to either get over it or die from it, until such time as the leftovers are more appealing to that particular person. Or at least, that's how I approach leftovers! I'm not out to torture anyone, though, and I don't think Molly is either. She does her best to provide for her large brood as far as both food and clothing, and perhaps it's just that we readers have been privileged to hear Ron's opinion of some of the things he gets that we can feel his side of it more than Molly's. We know for a fact that he's somewhat bitter that he doesn't get everything fancy and new exactly as he wants because the family doesn't have much money -- that's canon. I can't see that Molly deserves or is any more likely to die in the series than anyone else simply because she "makes do."
But then, I don't see why Solitaire doesn't like Snape, either, so.... We all have our own favorite characters! It undoubtedly affects our opinions of who might die in Book 7....
I wish I understood how betting works, so I'd know what 6-to-5 (or whatever) odds means....
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Solitaire - Jul 10, 2006 7:42 pm (#973 of 1297)
But then, I don't see why Solitaire doesn't like Snape, either, so....
hehe Madam Pince! I realize how hard it is for some people to resist those yellow teeth, that greasy hair, the sallow complexion, and the brooding personality. There's just no accounting for some folks' taste!
Solitaire
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Amilia Smith - Jul 10, 2006 9:02 pm (#974 of 1297)
Even odds on Voldemort dying???? He's the only character that I am absolutely certain will die. I shall be very dissatisfied if it turns out to be the "fate worse than death." It'd be like the Disney Three Little Pigs, where the Big Bad Wolf runs away at the end. Because we can't have actual killing in a children's film. So instead, we have the villain still running loose . . .
Mills.
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The One - Jul 10, 2006 10:21 pm (#975 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
I disagree with you there. To me it is more satisfying if Harry is able to defeat Voldemort without stepping down to his level.
In the end, it is supposed to be a story about love, not revenge or pre-emptive killing.
While Voldemort dying certainly is one possible outcome, I am not at all suprised that a different outcome also is deemed possible.
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Solitaire - Jul 10, 2006 10:24 pm (#976 of 1297)
I guess it sounds evil, but I want Voldemort completely dead, unable to be resurrected, when the series ends. But don't worry ... even if he does die completely, there will be another evil Wizard along soon enough. Wherever they come from, the WW does not seem to be running out of them.
Solitaire
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Amilia Smith - Jul 11, 2006 1:46 am (#977 of 1297)
I do not think Harry is stooping to Voldemort's level if he kills him. This is an epic hero's journey. It is OK for good to win, for the hero to kill the villain, for evil to be vanquished completely. (Until the next story, with the next hero and the next villain, as Solitaire pointed out.)
I am reminded of Orson Scott Card's review of the movie Hook. He has it listed under "Movies that made a lot of money that are pretty horrible." Quote:
I mean, this is about a father who has been told by the villain that if the villain is not killed, he will come back again and again to torment and, if he can, destroy his children. So the father beats him in a fair fight, but with his sword at the villain's throat, he turns around and walks away. What a wonderful message for children: No, kids, Daddy doesn't have the spine to keep you safe. He'll let the bogey man live because, after all, good guys can't kill disarmed villains even if they were disarmed in a fair fight. Well, I've got a clue for you: this father could. And so could every other father I know.
End quote.
I'm with Solitaire. I want Voldemort completely dead, gone, finished, unable to be resurrected, unable to continue killing and torturing people. I suppose I can see your point, The One, about a different ending being deemed possible, but I really feel that such an ending would be much less satisfying and much more chilling than if Harry is able to do away with Voldemort once and for all. Also a something of a cop-out.
JM2K.
Mills.
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The One - Jul 11, 2006 5:11 am (#978 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
There are several different possible scenarios.
1. Harry (or less likely, someone else) may kill Voldemort in battle. OK, that may happen.
2. Voldemort may "selfdestruct" in some way because of the power of love. OK, no problem.
3. But what if Harry defeats Voldemort in some way without killing him, han has him at his mercy? Should he then kill him off in cold blood?
There is not many stories I have seen where that happens. The Vietnam movie Platoon is the only one I can remember.
Some stories avoids the dliemma alltogether, as in LOTR, where Frodo shows mercy to Saruman, but Saruman is killed by Wormtounge. And Wormtoung is killed because he draws the knife.
Jo can avoid the dilemma by going for 1 and 2. But if 3 happens, I cannot imagine her letting Harry execute Voldemort. I simply cannot.
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wynnleaf - Jul 11, 2006 7:46 am (#979 of 1297)
While I think there's a 100% chance that LV will die, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Harry did not actively kill him. In OOTP, LV was forced to leave Harry's body and mind because he couldn't abide the love that was in Harry's heart and mind at the time. I expect LV to die because of something Harry is or something Harry does. But I don't necessarily expect Harry to directly kill him.
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Sconie Girl - Jul 11, 2006 8:48 am (#980 of 1297)
Voldy 100% dead!
But I've always thought it would be like "The One's" #2. Sort of a Wicked Witch of the West way to go. Harry defeats Voldy through love and kills(not murders)him, like ye old water to the face. Harry intends to destroy Voldy, but I just can't see him murdering someone.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 11, 2006 8:49 am (#981 of 1297)
Quick comment on cooking: Are we confusing corned beef, the heavily salted (it's cured in brine to preserve it) cut of meat, with corned beef hash, which comes in a can? Let's take it to the Molly thread, though, if we want to HASH it out.
Back on topic... Voldemort is most afraid of dying, so I can see where it would be kind of neat to see him die, but I do wish Harry didn't have to murder him. I think there's going to be a twist there. Maybe Harry throws him in that jar, turns him back into a baby and he gets to start over? I don't know. But I hate to see Harry stoop to Voldemort's level.
What's interesting to me is a lot of the debate about who will die started when Jo said two more people would die, but the way I read the interview she was talking about two more GOOD people. Am I completely crazy?
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Chemyst - Jul 11, 2006 10:15 am (#982 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
...but the way I read the interview she was talking about two more GOOD people. Am I completely crazy? -- Die Z
Um, I'm not about to touch that "am I crazy" question with a ten-foot wand, but I think the interview referred to two more characters who were noteworthy enough that they would be included in an epilogue. It is likely that both, but at least one is 'good' because of the way she added that "We are dealing with pure evil. [...] They go for the main characters, or I do." And when Richard mentioned that her husband shuddered and said, "No, not that one," Jo replies, "He did on one of them, yeah."
So I think it's safe to assume at least one was 'good' and neither were extras.
Leaky posted the interview here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Solitaire - Jul 11, 2006 12:43 pm (#983 of 1297)
I suppose some will consider me a bloodthirsty soul, but it does not bother me one iota to consider Harry & Co. killing Voldy, Bella, or any of the other evil DEs who've cut a murderous swath through the Wizarding community over the years. Of course it is sad to contemplate an innocent young man having to kill someone. A death of innocence is always a tragedy ... but this is a war, and there is combat in a war. What is worse, this is not just a war over turf--it is a war to set people free of the evil tyranny of Voldemort and his henchmen.
When Dumbledore talked to Harry of love being his greatest power that Voldemort knows not, I do not think he meant that Harry was going to be able to "love" Voldy into submission, surrender, or death. I do see another possible scenario, however ...
Once the Horcruxes are destroyed, Voldy will be vulnerable. Suppose someone once again--from love--lays down his/her own life for Harry (Hagrid, perhaps?). Voldemort casts an AK, and it rebounds on him, as it did that night in GH. Alas, there are no Horcruxes to protect him this time ... and he dies. Voila! Harry has not killed Voldy, yet ... Ding, Dong, Voldy is dead! I really do not see it happening this way, but who knows? Anything is possible.
Solitaire
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Dr Filibuster - Jul 11, 2006 1:33 pm (#984 of 1297)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
I vote for: Voldie dead but Harry won't turn into a cold-blooded killer.
PS: Madam Pince was on about corned beef a while ago. The stuff we know as (yuck) corned beef in the UK is sold in tins and is completely different to the corned beef I've had in the States.
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haymoni - Jul 11, 2006 1:36 pm (#985 of 1297)
Then Molly should die.
Just kidding!
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timrew - Jul 11, 2006 2:20 pm (#986 of 1297)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Solitaire:- Wherever they come from, the WW does not seem to be running out of them.
"Oh, deary me! Voldemort's dead.Is there another evil wizard that wants to take over the world anywhere? Wassat? Well, I know there's one around here somewhere. Look in that cupboard.
There, I told you there was one around here somewhere! What's his name? Gandalf! Well, we'll have to change that! What to? Oh, 'Badgalf' or something like that!"
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Magic Words - Jul 11, 2006 2:53 pm (#987 of 1297)
Never insult Gandalf the White in front of me!
*gives Timrew a pig's tail*
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TheSaint - Jul 11, 2006 3:39 pm (#988 of 1297)
Is there another evil wizard that wants to take over the world anywhere? Wassat? Well, I know there's one around here somewhere.
Perhaps in some dungeon classroom.....
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Solitaire - Jul 11, 2006 4:00 pm (#989 of 1297)
LOL Tim! Actually, though, I am serious. Grindelwald was vanquished, only to be succeeded by Voldemort. I find it hard to believe there isn't another creep-in-training ready--or about to be born, since I think Voldy is going to shuffle off this (im)mortal coil in book 7--to assume the mantle of The Evil Overlord. JM2K ...
Solitaire **looking at Tim's pigtail and rotfl**
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 11, 2006 4:48 pm (#990 of 1297)
Good point...if Voldemort dies, another wizard probably will take his place eventually like Voldemort followed Grindelwald. Because the real flaws in the wizarding world are not going to be corrected just by killing Voldemort. You still have a corrupt government, a censored press, mishandling of other magical creatures, and a lack of respect for muggles by most purebloods.
Anyway, if evil goes after main characters, it still seems to me that she's talking about them going after GOOD characters. Why would evil going after evil further the plot? And I didn't see anything about an epilogue mentioned in THAT interview. She just called it the final chapter.
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Chemyst - Jul 11, 2006 11:16 pm (#991 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Anyway, if evil goes after main characters, it still seems to me that she's talking about them going after GOOD characters.
Maybe she is. But unless the 'good' characters are spending their days sitting on their wands, some bad guys might die too. The response of JKR's husband can be used to deduce that at least one of the two deaths was a good guy, but there was simply not enough information to tell about the second one. Both deaths could be good guys, but her answer was too vague to know for sure.
And I didn't see anything about an epilogue mentioned in THAT interview. She just called it the final chapter.
True enough. But she has consistently equated the final chapter with an epilogue in several interviews over several years.
In December 2001 (referring to the final chapter) she said, "this really wraps everything, it's the epilogue and I basically say what happens to everyone after they leave school." And when ask if there would be an epilogue in July 2005, she said, "There is already a chapter written in which you find out about the survivors post Hogwarts fates, [...] this information is the end point and that is where I'm trying to get to. So yes, there will be." The epilogue and the final chapter meant the same in both of those answers.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 12, 2006 2:59 am (#992 of 1297)
evil wizard waiting to take over the world in Voldemort's style - now why does Draco Malfoy spring to mind? With both money and the dark arts........why imperio when you have galleons!
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Sconie Girl - Jul 12, 2006 9:11 am (#993 of 1297)
But unless the 'good' characters are spending their days sitting on their wands, some bad guys might die too. --Chemyst
Did we actually hear that any baddies got in in HBP? I know Dumbledore collected a few at the DoM, but what has the Order been doing? It seems like they have been more defensive.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 12, 2006 11:31 am (#994 of 1297)
I wish some bad guys would have died in some of these battles. They've been rushing about like the Keystone Cops, to show my age. The entire wizarding world is afraid of a small group of Bozos who hang around waiting to get summoned to cemeteries, and get outwitted trying to break into the Ministry by a group of kids? Bella is the only one aside from Voldmeort who seems truly scary to me, and that's because she's acting psycho half the time.
Why?
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haymoni - Jul 12, 2006 11:33 am (#995 of 1297)
I don't know.
That brother & sister that showed up at Hogwarts seemed pretty unhinged to me. I think they were a lot like Bella.
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sere35 - Jul 12, 2006 1:03 pm (#996 of 1297)
If the Order was smart they would start fighting fire with fire and start picking off death eaters one at a time. They should find who they are then get all the Order together and storm their houses about 15 to 1 and overpower the death eaters. At least that is what I would do.
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haymoni - Jul 12, 2006 1:20 pm (#997 of 1297)
I don't know if the DEs are actually in homes.
I'm guessing there are "safe houses" similar to Spinner's End.
Now that I think about it, it really was rather silly for Bella to trail after Narcissa like that.
Narcissa is still "innocent", but Bella is definitely wanted.
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der 905 - Jul 12, 2006 2:33 pm (#998 of 1297)
To me it looks, from the interview, that she killed off one good guy and and one bad guy. Maybe they were dueling and both came out of it badly. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on my part; but she already killed many good people in HBP and only one bad guy in the end, so I guess I'm hoping things will even out in the last book.
I don't if it was touched on here or in other threads, but I've seen people predicting that the wizards that have been wished Happy Birthday on Rowling's website were possibly safe from being killed. I've noticed that DD's not on it. Now, I've seen that everyone is predicting the death of everyone on the list; in fact I think the only person mentioned, not on the birthday list, is Luna. Has everyone changed their minds?
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sere35 - Jul 12, 2006 4:31 pm (#999 of 1297)
The way it seemed to me when I read it was that she saved two evil people and killed one good person.
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DJ Evans - Jul 12, 2006 8:19 pm (#1000 of 1297)
Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
Until recently, I didn't really give it much thought as to just who might not make it to the end of the series. But after hearing Jo's comments in her last interview, I've been wondering about Prof. Trelawney. In HbP Jo shows Prof. T drinking more & roaming Hogwarts when basically she has kept to her tower in books 1-5. Also when the DE's broke into Hogwarts in HbP, I thought they might have been there to try & take her back to LV. My thinking was, since LV lost his chance of hearing the recorded Prophecy when the ball was dropped in OotP, he could have given the orders to bring her in to him.
My train of thought is in book 7 she is still drinking & roaming around except even more so -- maybe even getting off the grounds at times, only to end up captured at some point. With DD not there any longer to keep closer tabs on her -- she very well could wander a tad too close to the forest (to visit DD's grave?) where a few DE's are just waiting for such a chance. Once LV is through with her & got all of the information he can from her, as with Bertha, well I don't see him keeping her alive. And when I think about it, who is there now to pay much attention to her & make sure she is safe & secure at the school?
For me, I believe there is a very good chance Prof. T is one that might not live to the end of the series. Whether she is one of the ones that has been planned from day one in Jo's outline & will now get a reprieve, I don't know. And I'm sure other HPers have thought of her as one who doesn't make it, but I figured I'd put down what I've been throwing around in my head since Jo's last interview.
Later, Deb
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think whatever plan DD created he gave Snape a choice. I don't think DD would punish someone for a mistake of 20 years ago. DD was Snape's supporter. The other staff members trusted DD so they accepted Snape. Who will believe him now? I'm not sure if DD's plan included Snape's death. It may come to that though. How else can Snape help the Order? He can't pass information any more. No one would believe him. LPO
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Solitaire - Jul 9, 2006 11:57 am (#952 of 1297)
Now, Wynnleaf ... I think you are deliberately misunderstanding me. My point is that someone can commit murder and then repent of the deed. Even the family may forgive the murderer. I've seen it happen. Alas, there are going to be consequences, whether he is forgiven or not.
Even though Snape may have repented what he did so many years ago, the Potters died, and consequences to Harry and everyone else are playing out now. Snape, Dumbledore, Harry ... everyone who is trying to keep Harry from dying is being affected. If Voldemort had never heard that prophecy, would any of this ever have started? No one knows. The thing is, he did hear it and people are still reaping the consequences.
I do not think Dumbledore is punishing Snape. Harry certainly holds him responsible at the moment. That is understandable. Will he ever forgive him? I don't know ...
Solitaire
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Solitaire - Jul 9, 2006 2:43 pm (#953 of 1297)
I had to leave in a hurry, before I could say everything I wanted to say, so I am adding to my above post. I want to reiterate that I do not think Dumbledore is deliberately putting Snape or anyone else into jeopardy. He does not believe in punishment in that way. Unfortunately, the things that must be done to safeguard Harry are dangerous. Anyone who participates in this process, whether it be Snape or anyone else, is in danger. I think this is precisely why Dumbledore undertakes so many of the things that are done on his own, without attempting to involve anyone else.
From this vantage point, it is impossible to say that all of this would or would not have happened because of Snape's indiscretion. It might well have been that Voldemort would have continued to hunt the Potters until he killed them. Had he not known the prophecy existed, however, he might not have zeroed in on them so relentlessly. This is something only Jo knows.
I suppose that, just as everyone else's actions have consequences, so do Snape's. His double agent role puts him into the position of facing consequences from one side or the other, too. If he is discovered to be Dumbledore's man through and through, then he is dead meat as far as the DEs are concerned. Bella will leave no stone unturned to get him. If he is loyal to Voldy after all, the Order will surely take him out for killing Dumbledore. There will be consequences, one way or the other.
Solitaire
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Chemyst - Jul 9, 2006 4:50 pm (#954 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
There will be consequences, one way or the other. ~ Solitaire, on Snape
And that is what makes his death/survival hard to predict. As long as DD was alive, I thought Snape would be dying. Maybe DD's sacrifice changed things from "one way" over to "other."
I noticed in a TLC article from June 28 that Melissa and Emerson were giving their odds on the deaths. That sounds like fun, so I'll do it too.
I agree with the notion that Hagrid is likely to die. In his own way, he is Harry's mentor just as much as Dumbledore was. I'll put it at 80%. Unless… if Grawp is around, I'll drop Hagrid to 40% but Grawp goes to 95%. …and a few spiders drown in Hagrid's tears 5%.
I'd put Molly Weasley very low. Less than 10%. The main reason it is this low is that she hasn't collected any 'trophies' for all her labors yet. She has noting to show for her efforts that would make LV interested in her. Even a blood-traitor status would not earn her a high priority unless she gets in his way.
Before the interview, I'd have given Tonks a 75% chance to be killed off. She seemed introduced for the purpose of having a disposable auror that the youth could identify with. But suppose she changed her appearance to look like Lupin; then Fenrir might not know who to go for first, making it 50/50.
Before I can rate Dobby, I need to settle on his purpose. On one hand, those big eyes were just made for a tragic "I regret that I have but one life to give for my Harry" death scene. On the other hand, he is sneaky and resourceful with a powerful bit of elf-magic, so he'd probably be a step ahead of anyone who was after him. It would be more convenient if Kreacher died. And Winky may sober up long enough to try one last valiant attempt to make things right. I think thee is a 70% chance of having a house elf death; I'm just not sure which one.
And Voldemort— He will end up 100% out-of-commission, but I'm not sure that means dead. I give him a 25% chance of suffering "something worse."
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Solitaire - Jul 9, 2006 5:13 pm (#955 of 1297)
I think thee is a 70% chance of having a house elf death; I'm just not sure which one.
Oh, do let it be Kreacher! I know he so wants to have his head mounted on the wall at 12GP. It is hardly fair to deprive him of this most fitting end ... is it?
Solitaire
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wynnleaf - Jul 10, 2006 7:12 am (#956 of 1297)
Solitaire,
I apologize for misunderstanding. I was perhaps not clear initially.
Ludicrous Patents Office wrote:
If Snape is Dumbledore's man I think the only way he will prove it is to die for the cause.
When I said that would mean that DD left no other way out, this is what I meant. If Snape is DDM, then he was almost certainly acting on DD's orders when he AK'd him. And almost certainly, those orders were prearranged, at least to some extent. If DD, as the leader, told Snape that he would or might have to AK him, but without leaving any sort of evidence that Snape had acted on his orders, that would have been extremely remiss of DD as a leader. That is what I meant when I said that DD would have been a very poor and uncaring leader to do that to one of his Order members. It's one thing to have the Order members take on many dangers. It's quite another to order one to take on a service that forever condemns that person as a murderer.
Your pointing out that Snape was one of the persons that originally took the prophecy to LV is correct. Of course, he bears a responsibility for some of the problem -- although, without LV having ever heard the prophecy, LV wouldn't have been "defeated" by baby Harry at Godrics Hollow, so this only would have exchanged one set of nasty problems for another set.
But Snape's being responsible for some of the LV problem, doesn't mean that DD wouldn't be responsible for the degree of danger he puts his Order members in. Certainly Snape is in all sorts of danger, like other Order members. But that sort of goes with the job. However, it's a different thing to become a murderer permenantly in the eyes of the law, by following DD's orders. If the only way Snape can prove his loyalty is to die for the cause, that means DD never left a way for Snape to be absolved from murdering DD -- and that would be wrong, if DD ordered him to do it.
Snape may indeed die in Book 7. But I hope that would be from other plot points, or thematic needs, not because it's the only way to prove Snape's loyalty.
Oh, on who will die... I'd put 70% on Hagrid, except that I don't think JKR would leave poor Grawp with no one to watch out for him. So maybe Grawp 70% and Hagrid 50%.
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Solitaire - Jul 10, 2006 8:31 am (#957 of 1297)
without LV having ever heard the prophecy, LV wouldn't have been "defeated" by baby Harry at Godrics Hollow, so this only would have exchanged one set of nasty problems for another set
I certainly agree with this ... and Wormtail definitely plays into the whole thing, as well. At what point did he decide to betray the Potters? Was it before or after Lily became pregnant? Please do not think that I am letting him off the hook.
I'm still not entirely sure that the AK-ing was pre-arranged. Remember whom we are dealing with here. I believe Snape is as good at Legilimency as he is at Occlumency, and we know Dumbledore is "an accomplished Legilimens" by his own admission. Could a "conversation" have been taking place between Dumbledore and Snape there on the tower--a conversation no one else (including the readers) could hear? Could Dumbledore have been communicating information--and an order--to Snape? Just a thought ...
Solitaire
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Magic Words - Jul 10, 2006 8:47 am (#958 of 1297)
Solitaire, that's entirely possible. I think a plan is more likely, though, because it gives an explanation to the argument Hagrid overheard in the forest, and I find it hard to believe that Dumbledore wouldn't have come up with some sort of contingency plan once he heard about the Vow (unless Snape never told him... but in that case I doubt he would have asked Snape to kill him on the tower).
If DD, as the leader, told Snape that he would or might have to AK him, but without leaving any sort of evidence that Snape had acted on his orders, that would have been extremely remiss of DD as a leader. -Wynnleaf
When you take the Vow into account, Dumbledore's options were really extremely limited. If Snape hadn't killed him, it's likely they both would have died on the tower. Even if Dumbledore found a way to prove Snape had killed him on his orders--and that would be challenge enough, I think, coming up with something a clever DE couldn't have counterfeited--it couldn't become known until after Voldemort was defeated because of the risk that the wrong person would find out. If it's ironclad proof, Snape wouldn't be able to brush it off as keeping his cover and he'd be killed by Voldemort. If it's not ironclad, plenty of people on the good side will never accept it. A few may, and that's what I think will end up happening: Harry and co. are convinced of his innocence, they make some sort of peace between them, but Snape's name isn't cleared with the rest of the Order until his death.
It's possible, I guess, that Harry's word will carry enough weight that he can vouch for Snape and get him his life and freedom back, even if he'll never be a respected member of society.
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Chemyst - Jul 10, 2006 9:12 am (#959 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Could a "conversation" have been taking place between Dumbledore and Snape there on the tower--a conversation no one else (including the readers) could hear?
Yes, I believed that was happening as I read it for the very first time. For me, endless analyzing of that scene won't change my mind about that. It would take a direct contradiction from DD in Book 7 before I'd concede it was otherwise.
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Solitaire - Jul 10, 2006 10:04 am (#960 of 1297)
Harry's word will carry enough weight that he can vouch for Snape
What do you see happening to bring Harry to the point of doing this? He certainly is not interested in doing it right now!
Solitaire
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haymoni - Jul 10, 2006 10:07 am (#961 of 1297)
It would have to be a pensieve memory without any blurry sections like Sluggy's modified memory.
Possibly a letter, if Harry was confident that the writing was truly Dumbledore's.
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Magic Words - Jul 10, 2006 10:42 am (#962 of 1297)
The trouble with a pensieve memory is that DD said Slughorn's was modified badly. What does a memory look like if it was modified well? Even the person who experienced the unmodified version can't always tell the difference.
Solitaire, that's one of the reasons I see Snape dying: Harry trying to clear his name looks very unlikely. I say it is possible, though, because I'm sure Harry will eventually have to come to terms with his hatred for Snape.
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Madam Pince - Jul 10, 2006 11:07 am (#963 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I am sure that a "conversation" was taking place between Snape and Dumbledore there on the tower. I am also sure that there was another "between-the-lines conversation" taking place between the two of them at the end of PoA, when the kids were telling everyone what had happened in the Shrieking Shack and why Sirius was innocent. I definitely found an undercurrent going on there between Snape and Dumbledore. Can't wait to find out what it was all about! Hurry up, Book 7!
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 10, 2006 12:35 pm (#964 of 1297)
a 70% chance of having a house elf death; I'm just not sure which one. Chemyst
I think Dobby has a good chance (60%). In CoS Harry wants Dobby to promise not to try and save his life. Dobby does not promise, in the book or movie.
Hagrid 75% after he extracts a promise from the trio they will take care of Grawp! LPO
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 10, 2006 12:57 pm (#965 of 1297)
My kids get Entertainment magazine and they had an article this week (July 14th issue) on who might die, based on Jo's comments about deaths in book seven. If anyone's interested in what a mainstream media says, they wrote:
Ron 20-1 chance of dying. Ginny: 6-1 Hagrid 3-2 Hermione 50-1 Snape 2-1 Harry 9-2 Voldmeort: even odds of dying.
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whitehound - Jul 10, 2006 1:13 pm (#966 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
[Molly] makes Ron things that are maroon because she thinks he looks good in that color
Nobody with bright red hair could possibly look good in maroon - though it's probably slightly better than the orange he'd have chosen for himself. But at any rate it means that she thinks what she wants for Ron is much more important than what Ron wants for Ron, and every Christmas she gives Harry something made with love and care, and Ron something she doesn't even bother to know that he'll hate.
and the yarn wasn't too expensive;
It seems unlikely maroon would just happen to be the cheapest colour year after year.
and it doesn't matter that he hates corned beef because it's something she cooks well,
You don't cook corned beef - you just open a can.
it's cheap,
Not especially - it's no cheaper than, say, sardines, which would be far better for him, and dearer than cheese and pickle, or cucumber. It's unhealthy, it tastes nasty and it isn't all that cheap - what it is, is a lazy option, because all you have to do is open a can and slice it. It is, if you like, the British equivalent of poor-quality baloney sausage.
She is very much like my grandmum, Birdie, who had 6 sons and 3 daughters during the Great Depression. When you're poor you make due any way you can.
They aren't all that poor - and if she was really poor she wouldn't go for fairly expensive processed muck (corned beef) instead of what you make for yourself. She has her own hens - she could make Ron an egg and cress sandwich for a fraction of the cost of corned beef, if she could be bothered to.
She also took in two of her sons' friends and doted on them more at first because they had such rotten lives
In what way did Hermione have a rotten life?
Once things settled on both sides, then they were treated like everyone else.
In what way does she treat Harry like everybody else?
And Ron's awful robes can't possibly be a precious heirloom - she said she got them second hand because they were cheap. There was nothing, except laziness and not really caring enough, to stop her from trimming the ghastly lace off.
Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly dislike Molly - but like Snape, like Lupin, like Sirius, like Albus, like Harry himself, like everybody on "our" side except Cedric, she is a basically good character who is also profoundly flawed.
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haymoni - Jul 10, 2006 1:16 pm (#967 of 1297)
I always think of corned beef as a poor cut of meat - it has to be cooked forever - I just figured it was all they had. I don't think she was giving Ron corned beef and everyone else had turkey or ham.
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whitehound - Jul 10, 2006 1:17 pm (#968 of 1297)
Claire M Jordan
I think Dobby has a good chance (60%). In CoS Harry wants Dobby to promise not to try and save his life. Dobby does not promise, in the book or movie.
How could he be killed, though? Lucius certainly didn't seem to have any magical defence gainst him, once Dobby was free. They seem to be extremely powerful. And no ward can stop them apparating as they please - you couldn't even kill one with an axe, unless you were incredibly fast, because it could just skip then feet sideways.
Solitaire - Jul 10, 2006 1:40 pm (#969 of 1297)[/b]
You don't cook corned beef - you just open a can.
I doubt Molly opened a can. She is described as an excellent cook. Actually, I always associate corned beef--and cabbage, of course--with St. Patrick's Day.
I do think Haymoni is right, though. It is probably a cheaper cut of meat, and that would be important when a mom has several growing boys to feed. As to the sandwiches, the meat was probably leftover from a previous dinner, so she used it to make sandwiches for the boys. I didn't always like what Mom cooked for dinner (or packed for lunch), but I ate what she made. We all did ... there were no special dishes for one finicky eater.
About that horrid robe ... I have never understood why Ron didn't just ask Hermione to help him fix it up a bit. I bet she would have done it. I suppose Ron could have sent it to her via owl post to do some "refurbishing," as well.
Solitaire
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 10, 2006 2:48 pm (#970 of 1297)
Whitehound I think all living creatures are vulnerable to the Avada Kedavra curse. LPO
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Chemyst - Jul 10, 2006 5:53 pm (#971 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
The maroon seems to be more of a color choice by default. (The color of this post is what you get when you type font color=maroon)
I'd guess that these Christmas sweaters were a Weasley tradition that started even before Ron was born. There are five older boys; six if she made a sweater for Arthur, so maroon is just another example of a "left-over" color choice determined (like so much of Ron's status) by birth order.
In our family, we had several kid's personal items that were identified by color: beach towels, breakfast cereal bowls, game boys, school folders, etc. In Molly's mind, maroon was probably the best available color left that didn't show dirt too easily. ...and in a feeble attempt to stay close to topic, I'd add that poor fashion sense isn't a crime worth dying– or killing, for.
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Madam Pince - Jul 10, 2006 6:06 pm (#972 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I cook my corned beef -- I don't open a can. I usually only do it once a year for St. Patrick's Day, but still.... As I buy it, it comes packaged rather like a roast, and is a fairly inexpensive cut of meat, as those things go, and is definitely not nasty. With cabbage and potatoes, it's a very filling, cheap, and (to me) tasty meal. I have also seen it sliced in the deli section for sandwiches. It's pretty popular for sandwiches, as I understand it. I've never seen it in a can, but then I've never looked either.
I think it's probably as Solitaire says above -- it's an inexpensive main course for a large family dinner, and any leftovers go into the next day's lunch. One person who doesn't like it probably just has to learn to either get over it or die from it, until such time as the leftovers are more appealing to that particular person. Or at least, that's how I approach leftovers! I'm not out to torture anyone, though, and I don't think Molly is either. She does her best to provide for her large brood as far as both food and clothing, and perhaps it's just that we readers have been privileged to hear Ron's opinion of some of the things he gets that we can feel his side of it more than Molly's. We know for a fact that he's somewhat bitter that he doesn't get everything fancy and new exactly as he wants because the family doesn't have much money -- that's canon. I can't see that Molly deserves or is any more likely to die in the series than anyone else simply because she "makes do."
But then, I don't see why Solitaire doesn't like Snape, either, so.... We all have our own favorite characters! It undoubtedly affects our opinions of who might die in Book 7....
I wish I understood how betting works, so I'd know what 6-to-5 (or whatever) odds means....
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Solitaire - Jul 10, 2006 7:42 pm (#973 of 1297)
But then, I don't see why Solitaire doesn't like Snape, either, so....
hehe Madam Pince! I realize how hard it is for some people to resist those yellow teeth, that greasy hair, the sallow complexion, and the brooding personality. There's just no accounting for some folks' taste!
Solitaire
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Amilia Smith - Jul 10, 2006 9:02 pm (#974 of 1297)
Even odds on Voldemort dying???? He's the only character that I am absolutely certain will die. I shall be very dissatisfied if it turns out to be the "fate worse than death." It'd be like the Disney Three Little Pigs, where the Big Bad Wolf runs away at the end. Because we can't have actual killing in a children's film. So instead, we have the villain still running loose . . .
Mills.
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The One - Jul 10, 2006 10:21 pm (#975 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
I disagree with you there. To me it is more satisfying if Harry is able to defeat Voldemort without stepping down to his level.
In the end, it is supposed to be a story about love, not revenge or pre-emptive killing.
While Voldemort dying certainly is one possible outcome, I am not at all suprised that a different outcome also is deemed possible.
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Solitaire - Jul 10, 2006 10:24 pm (#976 of 1297)
I guess it sounds evil, but I want Voldemort completely dead, unable to be resurrected, when the series ends. But don't worry ... even if he does die completely, there will be another evil Wizard along soon enough. Wherever they come from, the WW does not seem to be running out of them.
Solitaire
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Amilia Smith - Jul 11, 2006 1:46 am (#977 of 1297)
I do not think Harry is stooping to Voldemort's level if he kills him. This is an epic hero's journey. It is OK for good to win, for the hero to kill the villain, for evil to be vanquished completely. (Until the next story, with the next hero and the next villain, as Solitaire pointed out.)
I am reminded of Orson Scott Card's review of the movie Hook. He has it listed under "Movies that made a lot of money that are pretty horrible." Quote:
I mean, this is about a father who has been told by the villain that if the villain is not killed, he will come back again and again to torment and, if he can, destroy his children. So the father beats him in a fair fight, but with his sword at the villain's throat, he turns around and walks away. What a wonderful message for children: No, kids, Daddy doesn't have the spine to keep you safe. He'll let the bogey man live because, after all, good guys can't kill disarmed villains even if they were disarmed in a fair fight. Well, I've got a clue for you: this father could. And so could every other father I know.
End quote.
I'm with Solitaire. I want Voldemort completely dead, gone, finished, unable to be resurrected, unable to continue killing and torturing people. I suppose I can see your point, The One, about a different ending being deemed possible, but I really feel that such an ending would be much less satisfying and much more chilling than if Harry is able to do away with Voldemort once and for all. Also a something of a cop-out.
JM2K.
Mills.
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The One - Jul 11, 2006 5:11 am (#978 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
There are several different possible scenarios.
1. Harry (or less likely, someone else) may kill Voldemort in battle. OK, that may happen.
2. Voldemort may "selfdestruct" in some way because of the power of love. OK, no problem.
3. But what if Harry defeats Voldemort in some way without killing him, han has him at his mercy? Should he then kill him off in cold blood?
There is not many stories I have seen where that happens. The Vietnam movie Platoon is the only one I can remember.
Some stories avoids the dliemma alltogether, as in LOTR, where Frodo shows mercy to Saruman, but Saruman is killed by Wormtounge. And Wormtoung is killed because he draws the knife.
Jo can avoid the dilemma by going for 1 and 2. But if 3 happens, I cannot imagine her letting Harry execute Voldemort. I simply cannot.
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wynnleaf - Jul 11, 2006 7:46 am (#979 of 1297)
While I think there's a 100% chance that LV will die, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Harry did not actively kill him. In OOTP, LV was forced to leave Harry's body and mind because he couldn't abide the love that was in Harry's heart and mind at the time. I expect LV to die because of something Harry is or something Harry does. But I don't necessarily expect Harry to directly kill him.
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Sconie Girl - Jul 11, 2006 8:48 am (#980 of 1297)
Voldy 100% dead!
But I've always thought it would be like "The One's" #2. Sort of a Wicked Witch of the West way to go. Harry defeats Voldy through love and kills(not murders)him, like ye old water to the face. Harry intends to destroy Voldy, but I just can't see him murdering someone.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 11, 2006 8:49 am (#981 of 1297)
Quick comment on cooking: Are we confusing corned beef, the heavily salted (it's cured in brine to preserve it) cut of meat, with corned beef hash, which comes in a can? Let's take it to the Molly thread, though, if we want to HASH it out.
Back on topic... Voldemort is most afraid of dying, so I can see where it would be kind of neat to see him die, but I do wish Harry didn't have to murder him. I think there's going to be a twist there. Maybe Harry throws him in that jar, turns him back into a baby and he gets to start over? I don't know. But I hate to see Harry stoop to Voldemort's level.
What's interesting to me is a lot of the debate about who will die started when Jo said two more people would die, but the way I read the interview she was talking about two more GOOD people. Am I completely crazy?
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Chemyst - Jul 11, 2006 10:15 am (#982 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
...but the way I read the interview she was talking about two more GOOD people. Am I completely crazy? -- Die Z
Um, I'm not about to touch that "am I crazy" question with a ten-foot wand, but I think the interview referred to two more characters who were noteworthy enough that they would be included in an epilogue. It is likely that both, but at least one is 'good' because of the way she added that "We are dealing with pure evil. [...] They go for the main characters, or I do." And when Richard mentioned that her husband shuddered and said, "No, not that one," Jo replies, "He did on one of them, yeah."
So I think it's safe to assume at least one was 'good' and neither were extras.
Leaky posted the interview here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Solitaire - Jul 11, 2006 12:43 pm (#983 of 1297)
I suppose some will consider me a bloodthirsty soul, but it does not bother me one iota to consider Harry & Co. killing Voldy, Bella, or any of the other evil DEs who've cut a murderous swath through the Wizarding community over the years. Of course it is sad to contemplate an innocent young man having to kill someone. A death of innocence is always a tragedy ... but this is a war, and there is combat in a war. What is worse, this is not just a war over turf--it is a war to set people free of the evil tyranny of Voldemort and his henchmen.
When Dumbledore talked to Harry of love being his greatest power that Voldemort knows not, I do not think he meant that Harry was going to be able to "love" Voldy into submission, surrender, or death. I do see another possible scenario, however ...
Once the Horcruxes are destroyed, Voldy will be vulnerable. Suppose someone once again--from love--lays down his/her own life for Harry (Hagrid, perhaps?). Voldemort casts an AK, and it rebounds on him, as it did that night in GH. Alas, there are no Horcruxes to protect him this time ... and he dies. Voila! Harry has not killed Voldy, yet ... Ding, Dong, Voldy is dead! I really do not see it happening this way, but who knows? Anything is possible.
Solitaire
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Dr Filibuster - Jul 11, 2006 1:33 pm (#984 of 1297)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
I vote for: Voldie dead but Harry won't turn into a cold-blooded killer.
PS: Madam Pince was on about corned beef a while ago. The stuff we know as (yuck) corned beef in the UK is sold in tins and is completely different to the corned beef I've had in the States.
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haymoni - Jul 11, 2006 1:36 pm (#985 of 1297)
Then Molly should die.
Just kidding!
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timrew - Jul 11, 2006 2:20 pm (#986 of 1297)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Solitaire:- Wherever they come from, the WW does not seem to be running out of them.
"Oh, deary me! Voldemort's dead.Is there another evil wizard that wants to take over the world anywhere? Wassat? Well, I know there's one around here somewhere. Look in that cupboard.
There, I told you there was one around here somewhere! What's his name? Gandalf! Well, we'll have to change that! What to? Oh, 'Badgalf' or something like that!"
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Magic Words - Jul 11, 2006 2:53 pm (#987 of 1297)
Never insult Gandalf the White in front of me!
*gives Timrew a pig's tail*
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TheSaint - Jul 11, 2006 3:39 pm (#988 of 1297)
Is there another evil wizard that wants to take over the world anywhere? Wassat? Well, I know there's one around here somewhere.
Perhaps in some dungeon classroom.....
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Solitaire - Jul 11, 2006 4:00 pm (#989 of 1297)
LOL Tim! Actually, though, I am serious. Grindelwald was vanquished, only to be succeeded by Voldemort. I find it hard to believe there isn't another creep-in-training ready--or about to be born, since I think Voldy is going to shuffle off this (im)mortal coil in book 7--to assume the mantle of The Evil Overlord. JM2K ...
Solitaire **looking at Tim's pigtail and rotfl**
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 11, 2006 4:48 pm (#990 of 1297)
Good point...if Voldemort dies, another wizard probably will take his place eventually like Voldemort followed Grindelwald. Because the real flaws in the wizarding world are not going to be corrected just by killing Voldemort. You still have a corrupt government, a censored press, mishandling of other magical creatures, and a lack of respect for muggles by most purebloods.
Anyway, if evil goes after main characters, it still seems to me that she's talking about them going after GOOD characters. Why would evil going after evil further the plot? And I didn't see anything about an epilogue mentioned in THAT interview. She just called it the final chapter.
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Chemyst - Jul 11, 2006 11:16 pm (#991 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Anyway, if evil goes after main characters, it still seems to me that she's talking about them going after GOOD characters.
Maybe she is. But unless the 'good' characters are spending their days sitting on their wands, some bad guys might die too. The response of JKR's husband can be used to deduce that at least one of the two deaths was a good guy, but there was simply not enough information to tell about the second one. Both deaths could be good guys, but her answer was too vague to know for sure.
And I didn't see anything about an epilogue mentioned in THAT interview. She just called it the final chapter.
True enough. But she has consistently equated the final chapter with an epilogue in several interviews over several years.
In December 2001 (referring to the final chapter) she said, "this really wraps everything, it's the epilogue and I basically say what happens to everyone after they leave school." And when ask if there would be an epilogue in July 2005, she said, "There is already a chapter written in which you find out about the survivors post Hogwarts fates, [...] this information is the end point and that is where I'm trying to get to. So yes, there will be." The epilogue and the final chapter meant the same in both of those answers.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 12, 2006 2:59 am (#992 of 1297)
evil wizard waiting to take over the world in Voldemort's style - now why does Draco Malfoy spring to mind? With both money and the dark arts........why imperio when you have galleons!
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Sconie Girl - Jul 12, 2006 9:11 am (#993 of 1297)
But unless the 'good' characters are spending their days sitting on their wands, some bad guys might die too. --Chemyst
Did we actually hear that any baddies got in in HBP? I know Dumbledore collected a few at the DoM, but what has the Order been doing? It seems like they have been more defensive.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 12, 2006 11:31 am (#994 of 1297)
I wish some bad guys would have died in some of these battles. They've been rushing about like the Keystone Cops, to show my age. The entire wizarding world is afraid of a small group of Bozos who hang around waiting to get summoned to cemeteries, and get outwitted trying to break into the Ministry by a group of kids? Bella is the only one aside from Voldmeort who seems truly scary to me, and that's because she's acting psycho half the time.
Why?
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haymoni - Jul 12, 2006 11:33 am (#995 of 1297)
I don't know.
That brother & sister that showed up at Hogwarts seemed pretty unhinged to me. I think they were a lot like Bella.
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sere35 - Jul 12, 2006 1:03 pm (#996 of 1297)
If the Order was smart they would start fighting fire with fire and start picking off death eaters one at a time. They should find who they are then get all the Order together and storm their houses about 15 to 1 and overpower the death eaters. At least that is what I would do.
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haymoni - Jul 12, 2006 1:20 pm (#997 of 1297)
I don't know if the DEs are actually in homes.
I'm guessing there are "safe houses" similar to Spinner's End.
Now that I think about it, it really was rather silly for Bella to trail after Narcissa like that.
Narcissa is still "innocent", but Bella is definitely wanted.
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der 905 - Jul 12, 2006 2:33 pm (#998 of 1297)
To me it looks, from the interview, that she killed off one good guy and and one bad guy. Maybe they were dueling and both came out of it badly. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on my part; but she already killed many good people in HBP and only one bad guy in the end, so I guess I'm hoping things will even out in the last book.
I don't if it was touched on here or in other threads, but I've seen people predicting that the wizards that have been wished Happy Birthday on Rowling's website were possibly safe from being killed. I've noticed that DD's not on it. Now, I've seen that everyone is predicting the death of everyone on the list; in fact I think the only person mentioned, not on the birthday list, is Luna. Has everyone changed their minds?
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sere35 - Jul 12, 2006 4:31 pm (#999 of 1297)
The way it seemed to me when I read it was that she saved two evil people and killed one good person.
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DJ Evans - Jul 12, 2006 8:19 pm (#1000 of 1297)
Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
Until recently, I didn't really give it much thought as to just who might not make it to the end of the series. But after hearing Jo's comments in her last interview, I've been wondering about Prof. Trelawney. In HbP Jo shows Prof. T drinking more & roaming Hogwarts when basically she has kept to her tower in books 1-5. Also when the DE's broke into Hogwarts in HbP, I thought they might have been there to try & take her back to LV. My thinking was, since LV lost his chance of hearing the recorded Prophecy when the ball was dropped in OotP, he could have given the orders to bring her in to him.
My train of thought is in book 7 she is still drinking & roaming around except even more so -- maybe even getting off the grounds at times, only to end up captured at some point. With DD not there any longer to keep closer tabs on her -- she very well could wander a tad too close to the forest (to visit DD's grave?) where a few DE's are just waiting for such a chance. Once LV is through with her & got all of the information he can from her, as with Bertha, well I don't see him keeping her alive. And when I think about it, who is there now to pay much attention to her & make sure she is safe & secure at the school?
For me, I believe there is a very good chance Prof. T is one that might not live to the end of the series. Whether she is one of the ones that has been planned from day one in Jo's outline & will now get a reprieve, I don't know. And I'm sure other HPers have thought of her as one who doesn't make it, but I figured I'd put down what I've been throwing around in my head since Jo's last interview.
Later, Deb
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 1001 to 1050)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 11:03 am
Solitaire - Jul 12, 2006 11:18 pm (#1001 of 1297)
I agree, Deb, that Sybill is particularly vulnerable now that Dumbledore is gone. I've always believed Voldemort would attempt to get either Sybill herself or the Pensieve with Dumbledore's memory of her prophecy. If he does take her, I believe she will probably fare about as well as Bertha Jorkins. Since she does not even remember making the prophecies, his methods of getting her to remember them would probably drive her insane. I worry about her ...
Solitaire
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TheSaint - Jul 13, 2006 4:11 am (#1002 of 1297)
Is it possible the DE have her already? Harry kept wondering if anyone had blocked off the Room of Requirement. Snape ran out the front, but someone may have gone back the way they came, with our drunken little soothsayer.
The kids were the only ones that knew they came in that way, and they were all involved in the battle. I think maybe one was assigned the task of bringing Sybill back.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 13, 2006 10:14 am (#1003 of 1297)
TheSaint I'm sure by the time the funeral happened McGonagall would have noticed if one of her staff members was missing. There was no mention either way. Sibyll probably wandered back to her lonely tower after all the excitement. LPO
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Choices - Jul 13, 2006 11:42 am (#1004 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
LPO _ "I'm sure by the time the funeral happened McGonagall would have noticed if one of her staff members was missing."
I'm not so sure. Sybill is pretty reclusive and McGonagall was super busy taking over the running of Hogwarts, making arrangements for the funeral, notifying any number of people around the wizarding world, handling her own grief, etc. I'm not so sure she would have had the time to notice Sybill's absence - classes were over and McGonagall was extremely busy.
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Lavandula - Jul 13, 2006 11:50 am (#1005 of 1297)
Elementary Teacher
True enough. But she has consistently equated the final chapter with an epilogue in several interviews over several years. In December 2001 (referring to the final chapter) she said, "this really wraps everything, it's the epilogue and I basically say what happens to everyone after they leave school." And when ask if there would be an epilogue in July 2005, she said, "There is already a chapter written in which you find out about the survivors post Hogwarts fates, [...] this information is the end point and that is where I'm trying to get to. So yes, there will be." The epilogue and the final chapter meant the same in both of those answers. -Chemyst
Thanks for that information!!! Previous discussions had led me to suspect this; however, I was looking for the exact quotes to prove it. I'm glad you brought this up Chemyst.
This does give us things to ponder.
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timrew - Jul 13, 2006 4:11 pm (#1006 of 1297)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Magic Words:- *gives Timrew a pig's tail*
Sorry, Magic Words! I never meant to insult Gandalf the White. I quite like the old stick myself..........
............Uses mirror to admire newly acquired pig's tail...........
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Choices - Jul 13, 2006 6:48 pm (#1007 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Timrew - "............Uses mirror to admire newly acquired pig's tail..........."
Timrew, you lucky guy!! What a conversation starter! LOL
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jul 13, 2006 10:21 pm (#1008 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
...pink, black, hairy, bald?...
oh, topic..umm, yes...pink, black, hairy, bald... mayhap one or more of these describes who will die?
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Solitaire - Jul 13, 2006 10:52 pm (#1009 of 1297)
McGonagall would have noticed if one of her staff members was missing
I have to agree with Choices here. In addition to being incredibly busy, I think McGonagall was in shock over both Dumbledore's death and Snape's apparent treachery. Also, remember that Sybill kept to herself quite a lot. When people aren't always present at staff things, their absence is not as glaring.
If Voldemort does have Sybill, I suspect Book 7 may open with news of her death.
Solitaire
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Soul Search - Jul 14, 2006 10:17 am (#1010 of 1297)
I don't think so, Solitaire. I see Sybill being a nice part of the book seven storyline. Voldemort is obsessed with hearing the entire prophecy. Sybill is his last chance. He won't give up easily.
He might even decide that having a seer around is a good thing. Maybe Sybill will give Voldemort a daily horoscope and tea leaves' reading.
And, she does have to give one more prophecy to Voldemort.
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Chemyst - Jul 14, 2006 11:21 am (#1011 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
While I have no doubt that if Voldemort did have Trelawny he'd want to kill her eventually, I think he'd have the restraint to milk her for information first. I base this guess on the conversation DD and Harry had at the basin in HBP, chapter "The Cave."
Harry: Sir, this is Voldemort we're —
DD: I'm sorry Harry; I should have said he would not immediately kill the person who reached this island. He would want to keep them alive long enough to find out how they managed to penetrate so far through his defenses and, most importantly of all, why they were so intent upon emptying the basin…
Granted, it's not quite the same thing, but it does speak to Voldemort's desire to know more than anyone else. Since a prophecy might reveal a threat to his life, and if he does have Sybill, I doubt Book 7 would open with news of her death. We may have news of her disappearance; or if JKR goes to omniscient narrator mode, we may see an interrogation (less likely), or Sybill may try to psychically contact Harry (least likely).
Here is a question, if Voldemort did have Trelawny, would he want to use her as bait to lure Harry into a deathtrap? I know Harry never liked her as a professor, but she does have a certain 'innocent victim' thing about her that Harry might have compassion towards.
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Choices - Jul 14, 2006 11:45 am (#1012 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Yes, as much as Harry and McGonagall dislike her, I think if Sybill/ Sibyll has been kidnapped, it will be up to them to try and save her (if that's possible).
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TheSaint - Jul 14, 2006 4:32 pm (#1013 of 1297)
Yes, as much as Harry and McGonagall dislike her, I think if Sybill/ Sibyll has been kidnapped, it will be up to them to try and save her (if that's possible).
That would also smack of another error in judgement for not only DD but Harry too. Should they have told her she was the one that made the prophecy, would she have been more careful, drank less if she had had more pride in her abilities?
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DJ Evans - Jul 14, 2006 6:25 pm (#1014 of 1297)
Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
The Saint: Should they have told her she was the one that made the prophecy, would she have been more careful, drank less if she had had more pride in her abilities?
Hmmm, that's an interesting thought. Some how I don't think she would have really, cause doesn't she already think she is the greatest seer around? Or is it all a front that she puts on with everybody? Most likely she knows she's not very good.
But then I still think it was her kin (Cassandra) that made the actual Prophecy channeling through Prof. T. And if that is the case, when LV reads her mind (as he surely would, right?) then I just can't see things going very well for Prof. T.
I'm also in the camp that if LV already has Prof. T now, that it might be awhile before any notice is taken of it. Most likely she won't be missed until one of her girls, Lavender was one of them I think, try to go & see her about this latest happening at Hogwarts.
Later, Deb
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TheSaint - Jul 14, 2006 7:35 pm (#1015 of 1297)
Deb - I tend to think she knows she is not very good..thus the silly parlor games. Should she know that the current evernts in the Wizarding world are a direct result of a prophecy she does not remember giving, she may try hard to explore why she can't remember it and what state she was in when it came. But mostly, I think she would understand why she can't leave and that she should be on her guard.
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DJ Evans - Jul 14, 2006 8:17 pm (#1016 of 1297)
Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
TheSaint: From something you ***waves to Lisa & congrats to you & Jarand on your engagement!*** said there, I'm wondering if that might not be why she is drinking more. Trying to get to that state again? Wasn't she a little tipsy (to put it nicely) when she was roaming the hall in front of the RoR reading the tarot cards? Maybe her train of thinking is the more tipsier she is, the more open she is to the spirits? (sorry, no pun intended there )
Later, Deb
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 15, 2006 7:10 am (#1017 of 1297)
Historically, seers got high to give prophecies. The famous shrine at Delphi was purposely situated over a crevice in the ground that leaked, it is believed to have been, methane gas. The sibyl, or seer, would inhale this gas and babble. The babbling was then interpreted as prophecy.
The famous shrine at Dodana was placed over a sparkling spring which gave off carbon dioxide. This made the seers sluggish, and their replies to questions were equally incomprehensible and subject to interpretation.
Other Greek and Roman seers drank wine or burned narcotic incense.
Jo probably knows this. It's pretty common knowledge, if you're at all up on the subject of soothsaying.
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TheSaint - Jul 15, 2006 6:05 pm (#1018 of 1297)
Apparently we are not. Thanks for the info. Hmmmm...that is very interesting. Now I understand some things. Thanks.
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Solitaire - Jul 15, 2006 8:41 pm (#1019 of 1297)
Everything was lit with a dim, crimson light; the curtains at the windows were all closed, and the many lamps were draped with dark red scarves. it was stiflingly warm, and the fire that was burning under the crowded mantelpiece was giving off a heavy, sickly sort of perfume as it heated a large copper kettle.
This is a partial description of what Harry's first reaction to Trelawney's classroom in PoA. Farther down in the same scene, we read the following about Harry: The heavily perfumed smoke in the room was making him feel sleepy and stupid. It sounds a lot like what you describe, Die Zimtzicke.
Solitaire
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 16, 2006 9:07 am (#1020 of 1297)
Nice catch,Soli. Hmm..I wonder what Trelawney was burning?
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Solitaire - Jul 16, 2006 10:10 am (#1021 of 1297)
Thanks, Madame P. It's hard to say about the incense. When I was in college, there were little shops around town that used to sell incense, oils, and other stuff. I can remember having to leave a shop on more than one occasion, because whatever the proprietor was burning made me either nauseous or kind of spacey.
Frankly, I would think that just being in that upper-floor tower room (didn't they have to climb a ladder to get there?) with a hot fire and any kind of incense--especially if Sibyll were droning on and on--would make them feel sleepy and stupid.
I don't know much about incense, but perhaps Die Zimtzicke does and could tell us what she might have been burning. Could it have been some sort of herbal hallucinogenic?
Solitaire
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Choices - Jul 16, 2006 10:36 am (#1022 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I have wondered about that also - on more than one occasion Harry has said he felt sleepy and stupid when breathing in whatever Trelawney was burning. It definitely sounds like something hallucinogenic. I love to burn incense, but it never makes me feel sleepy or stupid.....well, at least not sleepy. LOL
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 16, 2006 2:19 pm (#1023 of 1297)
Heavily perfumed doesn't have to mean sweet,does it? Frankenscense & Murr? Ooh..sleepy & stupid, Hemp?
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 16, 2006 6:18 pm (#1024 of 1297)
I don't know what she was burning. I could try and find out what they used in ancient times. It's been a long time since I studied it, but we are kind of off topic in the thread about who will die, so I'm going to make a comment about the sibyls of Greece and Rome in the Trelawney folder. If I get any more info I'll put it there. I'll have to dig out some of my old books. I know there's a resin called Dragonsblood that was used to make incense in Medieval times.
I don't think the heat from the fire itself, in that drafty old castle was the problem, though. There are fires everywhere in Hogwarts. If there's a catch there, it's somewhere else, in my opinion.
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Choices - Jul 16, 2006 6:23 pm (#1025 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Die - "...there's a resin called Dragonsblood"
Ohhh, that sounds interesting!! I've heard of that before and would love to know more about it's use.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 16, 2006 6:28 pm (#1026 of 1297)
I'll check. By the way, more of us really should have remembered about the seers. They did a whole Simpsons episode about Flanders where he built a big statue of his dead wife that was over a gas leak and everyone thought they were hearing messages from the great beyond. That was a great takeoff on the whole idea.
If you don't know Roman history, you ought to at least know the Simpsons. LOL!
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Choices - Jul 16, 2006 6:42 pm (#1027 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I never said I didn't know Roman history, but I will gladly admit I know nothing about the Simpsons.
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haymoni - Jul 17, 2006 5:02 am (#1028 of 1297)
Mrs. Flanders died??? Shows how long it has been since I watched!!
I thought the kids got sleepy because it was warm in there and it was boring.
Was it an afternoon class? I always had trouble with afternoon classes. I always wanted to crash after lunch!
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 17, 2006 9:08 am (#1029 of 1297)
No offense meant by the Simpsons/Roman history comment. I just thought if someone didn't know the idea from one angle, they might possibly recognize if from the other.
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Holly T. - Jul 17, 2006 9:18 am (#1030 of 1297)
My daughter was home the other day and we spent part of the afternoon discussing who will die in book 7. She thinks Luna and Hagrid are doomed. She thinks Luna will voluntarily go through the veil to take the mirror to Sirius. We don't think any of the Marauders are going to end up alive. We think Peter Pettigrew will die as he kills Greyback and that Tonks and Lupin will die in a battle. I also think Grawp will die. My daughter thinks Draco is the one that gets a reprieve. She also thinks that there are going to be a lot of deaths, "because in Shakespeare in the last act everyone dies."
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 17, 2006 9:55 am (#1031 of 1297)
Ooh,Holly,doom and gloom! I think there will be alot of deaths also.
I fear for Ron.I was rewatching PS last night and in the part where they are working their way across the chess board Harry say's "Don't you see Hermione,he's sacrificing himself!" It gave me the chills. I can see Voldemort getting Ron or Hermione and torturing them trying to get info. I begin to wonder if telling his friends about the horcruxes was a good thing. I know they will be a great help,but I'm scared for them. I am sure Ron would die rather than betray Harry such as Sirius would have done for James and Lily.
I hope the reprieve is Dumbledore,I love him so.
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Solitaire - Jul 17, 2006 11:33 am (#1032 of 1297)
Madame P, I agree that there will be deaths ... and lots of them. Sadly, I think several in the Order will die helping Harry fulfill his "quest," or task. I hope I am wrong ... I hope Remus survives. I just do not think it will happen.
I had not thought about Luna voluntarily going behind the veil. I wonder, though ... would it do any good? Can a dead person communicate using a mirror?
Solitaire
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Chemyst - Jul 17, 2006 4:06 pm (#1033 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Heavily perfumed doesn't have to mean sweet,does it? Frankenscense & Murr? Madame Pomfrey
Interesting... not from the seer-using-stimulants viewpoint, but because myrrh is an herbal resin that was used in the embalming or anointing of the dead. It was supposed to mask the smells of decay.
________________________
Can a dead person communicate using a mirror?
well, the undead don't show up in mirrors at all, but...
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 17, 2006 6:12 pm (#1034 of 1297)
Thats interesting,Chemyst. Sounds like the perfect perfume for the dementor. I knew I spelled the incense wrong,but I didn't have time to look up.
I don't know about Sirius using the mirror,I don't think we will see him again.I can see Dumbledore using it to communicate with Harry,but of course I think Dumbledore lives.
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Choices - Jul 17, 2006 6:36 pm (#1035 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Madame Pomfrey - "...but of course I think Dumbledore lives."
Oh Madame, I cling to that hope myself!! I agree that Sirius will not use the mirror, but I do find the "whispering" behind the veil interesting, as well as Harry and Luna being able to hear it and not the others. Why were Harry and Luna so drawn to the veil? Does it have to do with them being able to see thestrals? Curious!!
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 18, 2006 8:56 am (#1036 of 1297)
I have wondered that myself.It makes sence that if they could see thestrals then they could hear the voices.Maybe they were drawn to it because their loved ones are beyond it. Strange..wasn't Hermione and Ron the only ones that weren't drawn to it? I thought that Ginny and Neville were mesmerized by it also?
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Steve Newton - Jul 18, 2006 9:07 am (#1037 of 1297)
Librarian
The only real connection that I have heard is that the ones sprayed by Neville's Murtlap Plant are the ones who were drawn to the veil. (I could have the wrong plant name. Sorry.)
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Choices - Jul 18, 2006 10:52 am (#1038 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
You are right Madame - Ron and Hermione are the only ones who are apparently unaffected by the veil - Harry, Luna, Ginny and Neville seem entranced by it.
Mimbulus Mimbletonia, Steve. Murtlap was what Hermione gave Harry for his bleeding hand after detention with Dolores. :-)
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haymoni - Jul 18, 2006 11:23 am (#1039 of 1297)
MMM...that's the first time I've heard that one.
Nice catch - I just figured they were bothered by the veil because they had awful things happen to them.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 18, 2006 11:31 am (#1040 of 1297)
I haven't heard that either.Interesting,Steve.
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Steve Newton - Jul 18, 2006 11:31 am (#1041 of 1297)
Librarian
Choices, at least I got it right that it started with an 'M.' I consider that pretty good for me.
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Choices - Jul 18, 2006 11:42 am (#1042 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Definitely "Exceeds Expectations", Steve!!! LOL
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Solitaire - Jul 18, 2006 9:52 pm (#1043 of 1297)
I thought the same, haymoni ...
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haymoni - Jul 19, 2006 5:56 am (#1044 of 1297)
Solitaire - I thought it was similar to those who were bothered by the dementors on the train - Harry & Ginny had the worst time.
Did we get any kind of reaction from Neville to the dementors? I know he was stepping on people's feet when the lights went out, but that was all I remember.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 19, 2006 6:32 am (#1045 of 1297)
I am currently doing a reread of PoA and both Ginny and Neville were very pale.Neville said :It was horrible,did you feel how cold it got when it came in?" Ginny was huddled in a corner looking nearly as bad as Harry felt.
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haymoni - Jul 19, 2006 9:43 am (#1046 of 1297)
Aha!!
What this means...I have no idea!
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 19, 2006 11:43 am (#1047 of 1297)
I think the dementors made Draco feel nearly the worst, if he was ready to wet himself and actually was so addled he ran in with the twins. He'd normally die than seek shelter with them.
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haymoni - Jul 19, 2006 11:51 am (#1048 of 1297)
I'm guessing just seeing the dementors would be enough to scare the - well, you know - out of someone, but was he actually affected by them?
Will Draco die in Book 7 or will he be spared?
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 19, 2006 2:44 pm (#1049 of 1297)
I sometimes wonder if Voldemort killed his parents(I think Lucius is a goner)if Draco would change to the side of good? I think Dumbledore almost had him convinced.Perhaps Harry and Draco will unite the houses.Wishful thinking,I know.
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Solitaire - Jul 19, 2006 6:19 pm (#1050 of 1297)
With Dumbledore dead, I do not think there is much chance of Draco changing his loyalties. It could probably only happen if Snape brought him into the fold--so to speak--and Snape is not exactly in a position to do that just now.
Solitaire
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I agree, Deb, that Sybill is particularly vulnerable now that Dumbledore is gone. I've always believed Voldemort would attempt to get either Sybill herself or the Pensieve with Dumbledore's memory of her prophecy. If he does take her, I believe she will probably fare about as well as Bertha Jorkins. Since she does not even remember making the prophecies, his methods of getting her to remember them would probably drive her insane. I worry about her ...
Solitaire
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TheSaint - Jul 13, 2006 4:11 am (#1002 of 1297)
Is it possible the DE have her already? Harry kept wondering if anyone had blocked off the Room of Requirement. Snape ran out the front, but someone may have gone back the way they came, with our drunken little soothsayer.
The kids were the only ones that knew they came in that way, and they were all involved in the battle. I think maybe one was assigned the task of bringing Sybill back.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 13, 2006 10:14 am (#1003 of 1297)
TheSaint I'm sure by the time the funeral happened McGonagall would have noticed if one of her staff members was missing. There was no mention either way. Sibyll probably wandered back to her lonely tower after all the excitement. LPO
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Choices - Jul 13, 2006 11:42 am (#1004 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
LPO _ "I'm sure by the time the funeral happened McGonagall would have noticed if one of her staff members was missing."
I'm not so sure. Sybill is pretty reclusive and McGonagall was super busy taking over the running of Hogwarts, making arrangements for the funeral, notifying any number of people around the wizarding world, handling her own grief, etc. I'm not so sure she would have had the time to notice Sybill's absence - classes were over and McGonagall was extremely busy.
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Lavandula - Jul 13, 2006 11:50 am (#1005 of 1297)
Elementary Teacher
True enough. But she has consistently equated the final chapter with an epilogue in several interviews over several years. In December 2001 (referring to the final chapter) she said, "this really wraps everything, it's the epilogue and I basically say what happens to everyone after they leave school." And when ask if there would be an epilogue in July 2005, she said, "There is already a chapter written in which you find out about the survivors post Hogwarts fates, [...] this information is the end point and that is where I'm trying to get to. So yes, there will be." The epilogue and the final chapter meant the same in both of those answers. -Chemyst
Thanks for that information!!! Previous discussions had led me to suspect this; however, I was looking for the exact quotes to prove it. I'm glad you brought this up Chemyst.
This does give us things to ponder.
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timrew - Jul 13, 2006 4:11 pm (#1006 of 1297)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Magic Words:- *gives Timrew a pig's tail*
Sorry, Magic Words! I never meant to insult Gandalf the White. I quite like the old stick myself..........
............Uses mirror to admire newly acquired pig's tail...........
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Choices - Jul 13, 2006 6:48 pm (#1007 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Timrew - "............Uses mirror to admire newly acquired pig's tail..........."
Timrew, you lucky guy!! What a conversation starter! LOL
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jul 13, 2006 10:21 pm (#1008 of 1297)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
...pink, black, hairy, bald?...
oh, topic..umm, yes...pink, black, hairy, bald... mayhap one or more of these describes who will die?
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Solitaire - Jul 13, 2006 10:52 pm (#1009 of 1297)
McGonagall would have noticed if one of her staff members was missing
I have to agree with Choices here. In addition to being incredibly busy, I think McGonagall was in shock over both Dumbledore's death and Snape's apparent treachery. Also, remember that Sybill kept to herself quite a lot. When people aren't always present at staff things, their absence is not as glaring.
If Voldemort does have Sybill, I suspect Book 7 may open with news of her death.
Solitaire
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Soul Search - Jul 14, 2006 10:17 am (#1010 of 1297)
I don't think so, Solitaire. I see Sybill being a nice part of the book seven storyline. Voldemort is obsessed with hearing the entire prophecy. Sybill is his last chance. He won't give up easily.
He might even decide that having a seer around is a good thing. Maybe Sybill will give Voldemort a daily horoscope and tea leaves' reading.
And, she does have to give one more prophecy to Voldemort.
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Chemyst - Jul 14, 2006 11:21 am (#1011 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
While I have no doubt that if Voldemort did have Trelawny he'd want to kill her eventually, I think he'd have the restraint to milk her for information first. I base this guess on the conversation DD and Harry had at the basin in HBP, chapter "The Cave."
Harry: Sir, this is Voldemort we're —
DD: I'm sorry Harry; I should have said he would not immediately kill the person who reached this island. He would want to keep them alive long enough to find out how they managed to penetrate so far through his defenses and, most importantly of all, why they were so intent upon emptying the basin…
Granted, it's not quite the same thing, but it does speak to Voldemort's desire to know more than anyone else. Since a prophecy might reveal a threat to his life, and if he does have Sybill, I doubt Book 7 would open with news of her death. We may have news of her disappearance; or if JKR goes to omniscient narrator mode, we may see an interrogation (less likely), or Sybill may try to psychically contact Harry (least likely).
Here is a question, if Voldemort did have Trelawny, would he want to use her as bait to lure Harry into a deathtrap? I know Harry never liked her as a professor, but she does have a certain 'innocent victim' thing about her that Harry might have compassion towards.
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Choices - Jul 14, 2006 11:45 am (#1012 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Yes, as much as Harry and McGonagall dislike her, I think if Sybill/ Sibyll has been kidnapped, it will be up to them to try and save her (if that's possible).
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TheSaint - Jul 14, 2006 4:32 pm (#1013 of 1297)
Yes, as much as Harry and McGonagall dislike her, I think if Sybill/ Sibyll has been kidnapped, it will be up to them to try and save her (if that's possible).
That would also smack of another error in judgement for not only DD but Harry too. Should they have told her she was the one that made the prophecy, would she have been more careful, drank less if she had had more pride in her abilities?
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DJ Evans - Jul 14, 2006 6:25 pm (#1014 of 1297)
Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
The Saint: Should they have told her she was the one that made the prophecy, would she have been more careful, drank less if she had had more pride in her abilities?
Hmmm, that's an interesting thought. Some how I don't think she would have really, cause doesn't she already think she is the greatest seer around? Or is it all a front that she puts on with everybody? Most likely she knows she's not very good.
But then I still think it was her kin (Cassandra) that made the actual Prophecy channeling through Prof. T. And if that is the case, when LV reads her mind (as he surely would, right?) then I just can't see things going very well for Prof. T.
I'm also in the camp that if LV already has Prof. T now, that it might be awhile before any notice is taken of it. Most likely she won't be missed until one of her girls, Lavender was one of them I think, try to go & see her about this latest happening at Hogwarts.
Later, Deb
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TheSaint - Jul 14, 2006 7:35 pm (#1015 of 1297)
Deb - I tend to think she knows she is not very good..thus the silly parlor games. Should she know that the current evernts in the Wizarding world are a direct result of a prophecy she does not remember giving, she may try hard to explore why she can't remember it and what state she was in when it came. But mostly, I think she would understand why she can't leave and that she should be on her guard.
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DJ Evans - Jul 14, 2006 8:17 pm (#1016 of 1297)
Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
TheSaint: From something you ***waves to Lisa & congrats to you & Jarand on your engagement!*** said there, I'm wondering if that might not be why she is drinking more. Trying to get to that state again? Wasn't she a little tipsy (to put it nicely) when she was roaming the hall in front of the RoR reading the tarot cards? Maybe her train of thinking is the more tipsier she is, the more open she is to the spirits? (sorry, no pun intended there )
Later, Deb
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 15, 2006 7:10 am (#1017 of 1297)
Historically, seers got high to give prophecies. The famous shrine at Delphi was purposely situated over a crevice in the ground that leaked, it is believed to have been, methane gas. The sibyl, or seer, would inhale this gas and babble. The babbling was then interpreted as prophecy.
The famous shrine at Dodana was placed over a sparkling spring which gave off carbon dioxide. This made the seers sluggish, and their replies to questions were equally incomprehensible and subject to interpretation.
Other Greek and Roman seers drank wine or burned narcotic incense.
Jo probably knows this. It's pretty common knowledge, if you're at all up on the subject of soothsaying.
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TheSaint - Jul 15, 2006 6:05 pm (#1018 of 1297)
Apparently we are not. Thanks for the info. Hmmmm...that is very interesting. Now I understand some things. Thanks.
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Solitaire - Jul 15, 2006 8:41 pm (#1019 of 1297)
Everything was lit with a dim, crimson light; the curtains at the windows were all closed, and the many lamps were draped with dark red scarves. it was stiflingly warm, and the fire that was burning under the crowded mantelpiece was giving off a heavy, sickly sort of perfume as it heated a large copper kettle.
This is a partial description of what Harry's first reaction to Trelawney's classroom in PoA. Farther down in the same scene, we read the following about Harry: The heavily perfumed smoke in the room was making him feel sleepy and stupid. It sounds a lot like what you describe, Die Zimtzicke.
Solitaire
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 16, 2006 9:07 am (#1020 of 1297)
Nice catch,Soli. Hmm..I wonder what Trelawney was burning?
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Solitaire - Jul 16, 2006 10:10 am (#1021 of 1297)
Thanks, Madame P. It's hard to say about the incense. When I was in college, there were little shops around town that used to sell incense, oils, and other stuff. I can remember having to leave a shop on more than one occasion, because whatever the proprietor was burning made me either nauseous or kind of spacey.
Frankly, I would think that just being in that upper-floor tower room (didn't they have to climb a ladder to get there?) with a hot fire and any kind of incense--especially if Sibyll were droning on and on--would make them feel sleepy and stupid.
I don't know much about incense, but perhaps Die Zimtzicke does and could tell us what she might have been burning. Could it have been some sort of herbal hallucinogenic?
Solitaire
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Choices - Jul 16, 2006 10:36 am (#1022 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I have wondered about that also - on more than one occasion Harry has said he felt sleepy and stupid when breathing in whatever Trelawney was burning. It definitely sounds like something hallucinogenic. I love to burn incense, but it never makes me feel sleepy or stupid.....well, at least not sleepy. LOL
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 16, 2006 2:19 pm (#1023 of 1297)
Heavily perfumed doesn't have to mean sweet,does it? Frankenscense & Murr? Ooh..sleepy & stupid, Hemp?
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 16, 2006 6:18 pm (#1024 of 1297)
I don't know what she was burning. I could try and find out what they used in ancient times. It's been a long time since I studied it, but we are kind of off topic in the thread about who will die, so I'm going to make a comment about the sibyls of Greece and Rome in the Trelawney folder. If I get any more info I'll put it there. I'll have to dig out some of my old books. I know there's a resin called Dragonsblood that was used to make incense in Medieval times.
I don't think the heat from the fire itself, in that drafty old castle was the problem, though. There are fires everywhere in Hogwarts. If there's a catch there, it's somewhere else, in my opinion.
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Choices - Jul 16, 2006 6:23 pm (#1025 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Die - "...there's a resin called Dragonsblood"
Ohhh, that sounds interesting!! I've heard of that before and would love to know more about it's use.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 16, 2006 6:28 pm (#1026 of 1297)
I'll check. By the way, more of us really should have remembered about the seers. They did a whole Simpsons episode about Flanders where he built a big statue of his dead wife that was over a gas leak and everyone thought they were hearing messages from the great beyond. That was a great takeoff on the whole idea.
If you don't know Roman history, you ought to at least know the Simpsons. LOL!
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Choices - Jul 16, 2006 6:42 pm (#1027 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I never said I didn't know Roman history, but I will gladly admit I know nothing about the Simpsons.
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haymoni - Jul 17, 2006 5:02 am (#1028 of 1297)
Mrs. Flanders died??? Shows how long it has been since I watched!!
I thought the kids got sleepy because it was warm in there and it was boring.
Was it an afternoon class? I always had trouble with afternoon classes. I always wanted to crash after lunch!
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 17, 2006 9:08 am (#1029 of 1297)
No offense meant by the Simpsons/Roman history comment. I just thought if someone didn't know the idea from one angle, they might possibly recognize if from the other.
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Holly T. - Jul 17, 2006 9:18 am (#1030 of 1297)
My daughter was home the other day and we spent part of the afternoon discussing who will die in book 7. She thinks Luna and Hagrid are doomed. She thinks Luna will voluntarily go through the veil to take the mirror to Sirius. We don't think any of the Marauders are going to end up alive. We think Peter Pettigrew will die as he kills Greyback and that Tonks and Lupin will die in a battle. I also think Grawp will die. My daughter thinks Draco is the one that gets a reprieve. She also thinks that there are going to be a lot of deaths, "because in Shakespeare in the last act everyone dies."
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 17, 2006 9:55 am (#1031 of 1297)
Ooh,Holly,doom and gloom! I think there will be alot of deaths also.
I fear for Ron.I was rewatching PS last night and in the part where they are working their way across the chess board Harry say's "Don't you see Hermione,he's sacrificing himself!" It gave me the chills. I can see Voldemort getting Ron or Hermione and torturing them trying to get info. I begin to wonder if telling his friends about the horcruxes was a good thing. I know they will be a great help,but I'm scared for them. I am sure Ron would die rather than betray Harry such as Sirius would have done for James and Lily.
I hope the reprieve is Dumbledore,I love him so.
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Solitaire - Jul 17, 2006 11:33 am (#1032 of 1297)
Madame P, I agree that there will be deaths ... and lots of them. Sadly, I think several in the Order will die helping Harry fulfill his "quest," or task. I hope I am wrong ... I hope Remus survives. I just do not think it will happen.
I had not thought about Luna voluntarily going behind the veil. I wonder, though ... would it do any good? Can a dead person communicate using a mirror?
Solitaire
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Chemyst - Jul 17, 2006 4:06 pm (#1033 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Heavily perfumed doesn't have to mean sweet,does it? Frankenscense & Murr? Madame Pomfrey
Interesting... not from the seer-using-stimulants viewpoint, but because myrrh is an herbal resin that was used in the embalming or anointing of the dead. It was supposed to mask the smells of decay.
________________________
Can a dead person communicate using a mirror?
well, the undead don't show up in mirrors at all, but...
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 17, 2006 6:12 pm (#1034 of 1297)
Thats interesting,Chemyst. Sounds like the perfect perfume for the dementor. I knew I spelled the incense wrong,but I didn't have time to look up.
I don't know about Sirius using the mirror,I don't think we will see him again.I can see Dumbledore using it to communicate with Harry,but of course I think Dumbledore lives.
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Choices - Jul 17, 2006 6:36 pm (#1035 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Madame Pomfrey - "...but of course I think Dumbledore lives."
Oh Madame, I cling to that hope myself!! I agree that Sirius will not use the mirror, but I do find the "whispering" behind the veil interesting, as well as Harry and Luna being able to hear it and not the others. Why were Harry and Luna so drawn to the veil? Does it have to do with them being able to see thestrals? Curious!!
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 18, 2006 8:56 am (#1036 of 1297)
I have wondered that myself.It makes sence that if they could see thestrals then they could hear the voices.Maybe they were drawn to it because their loved ones are beyond it. Strange..wasn't Hermione and Ron the only ones that weren't drawn to it? I thought that Ginny and Neville were mesmerized by it also?
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Steve Newton - Jul 18, 2006 9:07 am (#1037 of 1297)
Librarian
The only real connection that I have heard is that the ones sprayed by Neville's Murtlap Plant are the ones who were drawn to the veil. (I could have the wrong plant name. Sorry.)
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Choices - Jul 18, 2006 10:52 am (#1038 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
You are right Madame - Ron and Hermione are the only ones who are apparently unaffected by the veil - Harry, Luna, Ginny and Neville seem entranced by it.
Mimbulus Mimbletonia, Steve. Murtlap was what Hermione gave Harry for his bleeding hand after detention with Dolores. :-)
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haymoni - Jul 18, 2006 11:23 am (#1039 of 1297)
MMM...that's the first time I've heard that one.
Nice catch - I just figured they were bothered by the veil because they had awful things happen to them.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 18, 2006 11:31 am (#1040 of 1297)
I haven't heard that either.Interesting,Steve.
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Steve Newton - Jul 18, 2006 11:31 am (#1041 of 1297)
Librarian
Choices, at least I got it right that it started with an 'M.' I consider that pretty good for me.
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Choices - Jul 18, 2006 11:42 am (#1042 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Definitely "Exceeds Expectations", Steve!!! LOL
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Solitaire - Jul 18, 2006 9:52 pm (#1043 of 1297)
I thought the same, haymoni ...
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haymoni - Jul 19, 2006 5:56 am (#1044 of 1297)
Solitaire - I thought it was similar to those who were bothered by the dementors on the train - Harry & Ginny had the worst time.
Did we get any kind of reaction from Neville to the dementors? I know he was stepping on people's feet when the lights went out, but that was all I remember.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 19, 2006 6:32 am (#1045 of 1297)
I am currently doing a reread of PoA and both Ginny and Neville were very pale.Neville said :It was horrible,did you feel how cold it got when it came in?" Ginny was huddled in a corner looking nearly as bad as Harry felt.
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haymoni - Jul 19, 2006 9:43 am (#1046 of 1297)
Aha!!
What this means...I have no idea!
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 19, 2006 11:43 am (#1047 of 1297)
I think the dementors made Draco feel nearly the worst, if he was ready to wet himself and actually was so addled he ran in with the twins. He'd normally die than seek shelter with them.
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haymoni - Jul 19, 2006 11:51 am (#1048 of 1297)
I'm guessing just seeing the dementors would be enough to scare the - well, you know - out of someone, but was he actually affected by them?
Will Draco die in Book 7 or will he be spared?
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 19, 2006 2:44 pm (#1049 of 1297)
I sometimes wonder if Voldemort killed his parents(I think Lucius is a goner)if Draco would change to the side of good? I think Dumbledore almost had him convinced.Perhaps Harry and Draco will unite the houses.Wishful thinking,I know.
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Solitaire - Jul 19, 2006 6:19 pm (#1050 of 1297)
With Dumbledore dead, I do not think there is much chance of Draco changing his loyalties. It could probably only happen if Snape brought him into the fold--so to speak--and Snape is not exactly in a position to do that just now.
Solitaire
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 1051 to 1100)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 11:04 am
Choices - Jul 19, 2006 6:21 pm (#1051 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Draco was pretty resentful of Snape in HBP, so it would take a good bit of convincing to make Draco believe Snape and change sides.
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Magic Words - Jul 19, 2006 6:36 pm (#1052 of 1297)
Draco thought Snape was out to steal his glory. He can either resent Snape for succeeding (meaning he still considers glory the overriding issue) or be grateful to Snape for saving his neck. I predict the latter.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 20, 2006 5:48 pm (#1053 of 1297)
I was lurking on another thread when something caught my eye. "Dirt" is supposed to be connected with killing,murder and death.On the train at the beginning of S.S. Ron had dirt on his chin and later Hermione mentioned it. Is this another clue that Ron will die?
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nthdavid - Jul 21, 2006 1:35 am (#1054 of 1297)
Oh no, shades of Abbey Road. Have any of the characters been barefoot?
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Deb Zawacki - Jul 21, 2006 6:48 am (#1055 of 1297)
Much discussion on which good guys will be taken---there were bets that something would happen at the wedding....easily kill off someone (or ones) right away as collateral damage that sets off plot twists throughout--for example someone returning through the veil etc.
So if we assume the deaths and reprieves will come from the "good side"..... Are there any deaths on the DE side that would be meaningful in terms of the outcome-- would anyone care if Bellatrix died? Would Draco's death make a bit of difference--or Snape's at this point. I think that some of the bad boys need to start dying for the survivirs on that side to question whether alligning with V is still actually in their best interest. Personally I want to see some of them go or something happens so that their kids--like Crabbe and Goyle finally realize it's time to stop.
My guess would be that the deaths and reprieve have to directly affect Harry and his mind-set. This whole time we have been told he has to get his emotions under control and whatever loss he feels can't put him in either a loose-cannon state or too catatonic to function. Some of which will depend on whether he witnesses a killing or finds out after the fact. In any case, they have to strengthen his determination rather than his rage.
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Deb Zawacki - Jul 21, 2006 7:06 am (#1056 of 1297)
Peter still owes a debt to Harry that has not been repaid. I hope that is not overlooked in Book 7 as Peter "taking a bullet for Harry" may be his only redemption.
I also wonder that if anyone gets killed protecting Harry directly--will that offer him any more protection? So that Voldemort AK's himself again-maybe this time ERASING the scar?
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Solitaire - Jul 21, 2006 10:54 am (#1057 of 1297)
I've wondered about that, as well, Deb. I posted a similar question or theory (not about erasing the scar, just about the AK rebounding) somewhere about a week ago. I can't remember which thread.
Solitaire
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Thom Matheson - Jul 21, 2006 5:32 pm (#1058 of 1297)
I can't shake the feeling that Snape would be involved with that. The whole, I'm sorry Lily thing, and as Harry is about to take one from Voldemort, Snape jumps in and takes one for the team, or in fact out guns Voldemort and they trade shots of AK and kill each other. Harry survives.
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haymoni - Jul 21, 2006 5:44 pm (#1059 of 1297)
The Boy Who Lived Again
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Honour - Jul 21, 2006 6:51 pm (#1060 of 1297)
I actually don't think that Peter repaying a "life debt" to Harry is all that realistic. He has no remorse with his actions that contributed to Harry's parents deaths, nor Sirius' imprisonment, and he was and is willing enough to help Voldermort entrap and hurt Harry in GOF. I don't think this character is redeemable.
If Severus does "take one" from Voldermort it will not be for Harry or Lily. If there was some kind of "friendship" between Lily and Severus, Lily's taken up with and marrying James would have nullified this. Severus may have had some regret with his contribution towards Voldermort knowing about the prophesy but I think Severus' dealings with Voldermort is on a wholey personal level, which will be revealed in book 7.
So to go back to this thread "Who will die in book 7?" I think Ron will die sacrificing himself for Harry, Molly may die protecting one of her brood, Viktor may get hurt badly or die protecting Hermione, Narcissa protecting Draco, probably against Bellatrix, Greyback will die by Peter's hand (maybe Peter will do this protecting Remus) can't see it though, Peter will die at the hands of Severus, and er yes Voldermort ...
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Deb Zawacki - Jul 21, 2006 7:54 pm (#1061 of 1297)
Would Ron's death, perhaps by standing in front of Hermione offer her some protection? He loves her...yes? If Ron dies willHarry and hermione end up together after the battle--perhaps raising a little Ron Jr.? Could Ron and Hermione actually marry during the summer as they are both of age....but this secret not be revealed until the end, after Ron dies?
Or would there just be some tearful goodbye between Harry and Hermione..."you take care of yourself" I'm going to live with Viktor....
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Honour - Jul 22, 2006 8:48 pm (#1062 of 1297)
I really don't know if Harry will realise his deepest desire to have his own family or, if like Dumbledore, later on eventually sacrifices his life to watch over the young magicians coming through Hogwarts ever vigilant, watching the signs, waiting for the next Voldermort, and the next 'boy who lived'. As for Hermione, eventually, I have also pictured her in a very similar role to Minerva, constantly watching, knowing the importance of her role as Harry's friend and probably to some extent confidante. Romance between them? I picture their relationship as similar to Dumbledores and Minervas, the very best of friends ...
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 27, 2006 9:58 pm (#1063 of 1297)
Hary's deepest desire has never been to have his own family. He's never even thought about it. He always had a deep desire to get his family (parents especially) BACK, but he had never thought about being an adult and having a family of his own.
As for Ron dying so Harry can wind up with Hermione, I'd forget it if anyone's seriously considering it. Jo wouldn't let the H/Hr shippers get dissed the way they did, if that was her twist. (Just my honest opinion.) Telling them to go back and reread, and letting them get called delusional was pretty harsh. I've often wondered if Hermione could get back with Viktor, though. I could see them going off and starting some wizarding version of the UN.
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Solitaire - Jul 27, 2006 10:24 pm (#1064 of 1297)
Even if Ron AND Ginny were to die, that is no guarantee Harry and Hermione would become a couple.
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Honour - Jul 28, 2006 7:07 am (#1065 of 1297)
The reason I thought Ron might die was not so that Harry would "end up with Hermione", (I myself have always been partial to the Viktor and Hermione pairing) I just remember the sacrifice Ron made of himself in P/S - playing chess - so I could actually see him doing something similar again.
Maybe you are right Die Zimtzicke, maybe it isn't canon that Harry would like his own family, I must have read between the lines and ended up in left field. I always got the impression he covetted (is that too strong a word?) the Weasley brood, and did fit in with them quite easily.
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journeymom - Jul 28, 2006 3:32 pm (#1066 of 1297)
Ron might die but I don't think it will be because of the chess game. The chess game was analogous of Dumbledore's part in the whole story. Dumbledore sacrificed himself (like Ron did in the game) so Harry could go on and face Voldemort.
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Honour - Jul 29, 2006 4:45 am (#1067 of 1297)
Sorry jouneymom, I must not have made myself clear, no I don't think that the possibility of Ron dying would have anything to do with the chess game he played in PS, I meant that as Ron is Harry's and Hermione's loyal friend that he could possibly sacrifice himself for them.
I thought Dumbledore sacrificed himself more for Draco than Harry. Harry's being 'frozen' by Dumbledore, I always thought was not a means of keeping Harry safe but rather to have Harry bare witness to his death. If Dumbledore really wanted Harry to be safe, he would have landed in the grounds and had Harry get Hagrid, or even sent his patronus to Hagrid as he had done in the past. Dumbledore initally wanted Harry to fetch Severus, a task made harder, and then in the end not even do-able, by landing on the tower?. Why didn't they go via the lake and enter through the way the 'first years' arrive, at least this way, they would have been closer to Severus' rooms. No that night Harry was the witness, to report to the Order and the rest of the magical world that Severus killed Dumbledore.
Now back to this thread? I stand by my previous post #1060
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Deb Zawacki - Jul 29, 2006 7:37 pm (#1068 of 1297)
I think that Dumbledore also wanted to show Harry that compassion extends even to the likes of Draco--whom Dumbledore must have felt worth redemption--he gave Draco a choice--and that hesitation saved him. Dumbedore is always going on about choice defining character.
We know Draco has been struggling with his dilemma, despite his false bravado in front of his friends, and his disdain for Harry. Perhaps, as with Snape, Dumbledore believed in his being trustworthy and loyal.
How can Draco be feeling after failing in his mission--knowing that either Voldemort will find out, or that he must lie to save his family--in any light he must be filled with self-doubt and loathing. His father would probably spit on him. As for whether Harry will tell his frinds what he witnessed, who knows. Harry, when tested comes out smelling like a rose--the perpetual hero.
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Honour - Jul 30, 2006 2:08 pm (#1069 of 1297)
"As for whether Harry will tell his friends what he witnessed, who knows ..."
HBP;The Phoenix Lament Chapter ...
"How did he die?" whispered Tonks. "How did it happen?" "Snape killed him", said Harry. "I was there, I saw it ..."
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Deb Zawacki - Jul 30, 2006 5:13 pm (#1070 of 1297)
Yes, but did he tell them that Draco was going to....
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Honour - Jul 31, 2006 12:15 am (#1071 of 1297)
yes, probably Deb Zawacki. But it was more important for the story line, at the very moment for Harry to relay to everyone at Bill's hospital bed that it was Severus who killed Dumbledore. I think compared to Dumbledore's death Draco's would be involvement is secondary.
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Deb Zawacki - Jul 31, 2006 7:55 pm (#1072 of 1297)
Maybe--dunno--we are going on Harry's perceptions and lack of seeing "the whole picture"--the unbreakable vow at Spinner's End, Draco's angst over an assignment he willingly accepted from Voldemort and the fact that Snape had to cover Draco's hind parts for real or for show.
I didn't see anyone of the main characters going chasing after Snape--maybe Arthur or a few may know that the death--again real or fake--would have to occur at some point as part of a larger picture.
Perhaps SOMEONE like Minerva--who would keep his confidence--would have to know what was going on to make sure Harry was protected. She might raise objections but she would not be able to over-rule him.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 1, 2006 5:02 pm (#1073 of 1297)
J.K. Rowling's statement at the press conference in New York City is intriguing because ,in part it reads as follows:
"I can resolve the story now and it's fun in a way it wasn't before because finally I've reached my resolution, and I think some people will loathe it and some people will love it, but that's how it should be." "We're working towards the end I always planned but a couple of characters I expected to survive have died and one character got a reprieve," she said, declining to elaborate.
The question is which two characters did J.K. initially expect to survive any thoughts or ideas?
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Madame Pomfrey - Aug 1, 2006 6:16 pm (#1074 of 1297)
Nathan,I don't think she would change the ending she had always planned so I don't think it would be Harry either way. Working towards the end..I think maybe Snape would get the reprieve even though I hope it is anybody else(Good characters,I mean.)I might change my mind later,of course.I dunno...the ones she always thought would survive I think would be characters that she loves or else she would probably want to kill them*Umbridge* I think one of the trio,probably Ron and maybe even McGonnagal.Ooh,I'm misty eyed already.How about Draco?I wonder if he'll make it? How about you? Do you have anyone in mind? Perhaps we should look for clues that might cause suspect that the person would die.That could be our reprieve.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 1, 2006 6:42 pm (#1075 of 1297)
Given the statement about some people loathing the end I tend to think that the following possibilities are probable.
I think that given the wording at least of the sextet of Harry, Ron, Hermione, Neville, Ginny and Luna may have be a possible victim.
It is also possible when taken in conjunction with Minerva McGonagall's statement to Harry about becoming an Auror that she will be a victim.
When J.K. Rowling said some would loathe the ending that the following Possibilities should be considered
Hagrid, Tonks, or Remus, a character beloved by most but not all people is killed.
Arthur or Molly Weasley or another not mentioned above including Fleur or Percy are killed.
In terms of the reprieve five candidates occurred to me:
Peter Pettigrew
Severus Snape
Bellatrix Black Lestrange
Draco Malfoy
Voldemort
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Solitaire - Aug 1, 2006 7:33 pm (#1076 of 1297)
I tend to think Bella will die, and I am starting to think it may be Voldemort who kills her. I think she has "outlived her usefulness" and may become too much of a liability in Book 7.
I agree with Madame Pomfrey about Harry. I do not think his fate is going to change. It will be whatever it was ... whatever that is. I do think one of the six--possibly one of the Trio--is going to die. (This could include Harry.)
I have thought Hagrid was doomed all along, so maybe he is one who will get a reprieve. I also hope Remus lives. He has had kind of a sad life, and I really think he deserves some happiness.
Solitaire
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Soul Search - Aug 1, 2006 7:49 pm (#1077 of 1297)
My thought is that at least one of the marauders should survive. Basicly, Harry should have one connection to his parents and godfather. My choice would be Lupin. Too bad for Wormtail.
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Deb Zawacki - Aug 1, 2006 8:27 pm (#1078 of 1297)
Draco dying could set up some real drama--in terms of him suffering and death-bed apologies. His moother's agony and Lucius going balstic. OR Narcissa protecting him, ttig illd but Draco ending up with a scar! Or Draco as a ghost groom with Myrtle
Here's a twist--Hagrid restored to full power as headmaster of Hogwarts! And STAN Shunpike the new custodian.
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Solitaire - Aug 1, 2006 9:38 pm (#1079 of 1297)
Oooh! I like Draco and Myrtle as a ghost-couple! hehe
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 2, 2006 8:22 am (#1080 of 1297)
I've always thought Harry might have to die to win, and that he would go on to the next great adventure and finally have a better life than he had here, but I completely agree that what happens with Harry is fixed, always has been and nothing will change it. That's not going to be one of the things she changes her mind on. If she ever admits she changed the plan for him, I'm going to be totally shocked.
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Good Evans - Aug 2, 2006 11:48 am (#1081 of 1297)
Practically perfect in every way
I have read and re read that transcript and I am not convinced that Jo was telling us about new deaths (although I accept that it is extrememly unlikely that we can get through 7 without a major death). She talks about 2 deaths, If I remember rightly she said she cried after killing off Sirius, but it had to be done. And of course Dumbledore has gone the way of the veil too (if you beleive such things). She may not have planned to orginally kill either one, but that was how it developed, they were too talented and too close to Harry.
The most vulnerable character in my eyes is Hagrid, who has always been there for Harry (more so than the other two!) and I suspect the repreive came to Remus as he now has the love interest with Tonks.
To lose Ron or Hermione would be devastating, as she has set them up to a "get together". If she planned to do away with one, I would have thought the relationship would not have developed with each other, it makes them too close to the reader (IMHO). Mybe it is one of these two that initally was going to die and it is their hormones that have saved them?
Of the lesser characters yes, Malfoys / Lestranges / all look pretty vulnerable to me McGonnagall, Moody and a Weasley or two may also be in the fray.
I dont know - just more rambling thoughts I guess.
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 2, 2006 2:43 pm (#1082 of 1297)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
Given the number of near misses we've already seen with several Weasleys, I'd be surprised too if they all made it through.
I'm not holding out for JKR sparing any of us from anything devastating either! Plenty of folks were devastated over Sirius and Dumbledore.
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Madame Pomfrey - Aug 2, 2006 9:12 pm (#1083 of 1297)
Jo said that she would invite Harry, Hermione, and Ron to eat with her. Then she paused and said that the problem with doing this is that she knows who dies in Book 7. Then she said that if she could pick dead people, she would pick Dumbledore, and the paused, and said her last person would be Hagrid.
Is it just me or does it sound like Hagrid will die?
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Mediwitch - Aug 2, 2006 9:25 pm (#1084 of 1297)
"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
I agree Madame Pomfrey. It also seems as though perhaps Harry, Ron, and Hermione might be spared, as she named them, then said "if she could pick dead people" she would pick Dumbledore.
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Solitaire - Aug 2, 2006 9:31 pm (#1085 of 1297)
So she doesn't want to have dinner with Snape?
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wynnleaf - Aug 2, 2006 11:55 pm (#1086 of 1297)
As I understand it, she named HRH right off (well, sort of) and then tried to think of 2 others, but then said something about it being difficult because only she knew who lived and died. Something about how she said it made it fairly clear to the audience that she was thinking she could only list live characters. Anyway, she tried to recover and then mentioned DD as a character she'd like to invite (a safe one to mention, since his death is in HBP) and then mentioned Hagrid. Because by the time she mentioned the last two, she was clear that she could "invite" living or dead characters, her naming Hagrid doesn't necessarily mean anything.
Frankly, I don't think JKR was so much focused on "who do I want to invite," as much as "who can I mention that won't give something away," and then she inadvertently did it anyway.
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cindysuewho45 - Aug 3, 2006 2:02 am (#1087 of 1297)
Hi all, Just looking in to see what you all think. I just love that Tonks and Lupin are together and we my see them in love in book 7. But I also feel that JKR will kill a good amount of wizards, book 7 is at full on War at the start. I think that we will see love die and that both Tonks and Lupin will be killed. I do not want it to happen, but JKR is telling a story about a War and evil. And in that kind of War good will die alone with bad. And the more I think about it, the twins could be killed off too.
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The One - Aug 3, 2006 3:20 am (#1088 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
As the Ron/Hermione ship seems inevitable, I more and more expect Harry to die.
A lot of stories does indeed end up with the hero giving his life for the cause, and one possible ending is indeed that Harry gives up his life and the spirit of the trio lives on in Ron and Hermione.
I want Harry to survive, but I am getting worried.
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Lavandula - Aug 3, 2006 5:17 am (#1089 of 1297)
Elementary Teacher
Wynnleaf- You mentioned..."Frankly, I don't think JKR was so much focused on "who do I want to invite," as much as "who can I mention that won't give something away," and then she inadvertently did it anyway."
I agree with you on that one. I was thinking the lumping of Hagrid and DD together put them in a different group as the Harry, Ron, and Hermione group.
Or, on the other hand, is she stumbling over the first three at dinner too with the comment about being alive before continuing with her answer?
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Wizadora - Aug 3, 2006 8:38 am (#1090 of 1297)
I think she said Hagrid to cause concern amongst people, but I think he is the one who got a repreive. I also certianly don't think she will kill off Harry, although I do think it will look like he is dead for a while. My theory is he will fall through the veil but will be pushed out into the mysterious room in the DOM through love or something like that. We will all think he is gone but he will then walk out shock everyone and be minus his scar.
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Solitaire - Aug 3, 2006 9:08 am (#1091 of 1297)
on the other hand, is she stumbling over the first three at dinner too with the comment about being alive before continuing with her answer
I certainly think that is a possibility, Lavandula. I do not think her comment about inviting HRH to dinner can be construed as positive confirmation that they will make it out alive. The hesitation could have been for one or more of them. Just for the record, though, I believe Hagrid is going to get it in Book 7. He will sacrifice himself for Harry ... or Grawp, perhaps.
Solitaire
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haymoni - Aug 3, 2006 9:40 am (#1092 of 1297)
JKR loves Hagrid. She's said it before. When she was asked before the movies were made about which actors she had in mind to play which characters, she immediately said Robbie Coltrane for Hagrid.
I think "Hagrid" was always going to be one of her answers, along with the Trio, and she said Dumbledore - who wouldn't want to eat dinner with him???
That's not to say that Hagrid isn't going to die.
I just mean that no matter who else she named, I think she was always going to throw in Hagrid - the fact that she talks about eating with dead people wouldn't change his appearance on the list, whether he lives or dies.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 3, 2006 9:53 am (#1093 of 1297)
I think Ron might die and his place in Hermione's life could be filled by Viktor Krum given J.K. Rowling's statements concerning Viktor.
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 3, 2006 10:10 am (#1094 of 1297)
Well, no matter what she does she basically has an out, because if I heard it right, the question was about who she would invite to dinner if she could. She can't invite any of them, dead oralive, because none of them exist, so it's a moot point, isn't it?
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Madame Pomfrey - Aug 3, 2006 10:11 am (#1095 of 1297)
Nathan,What was the statement?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 3, 2006 10:31 am (#1096 of 1297)
There was question asked about Viktor Krum in the World Book Day Chat in 2004. bertieana: Will we be seeing Krum again any time soon? JK Rowling replies -> You will see Krum again, though not soon
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Steve Newton - Aug 3, 2006 10:38 am (#1097 of 1297)
Librarian
That line seems to be weak evidence for an ongoing relationship with Vikkie. I'm willing to bet that its Ron and Hermione through thick and thin.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 3, 2006 10:51 am (#1098 of 1297)
Steve I am inclined to although case have been proved using weaker evidence. So I reserve judgment on the matter. I postulated the line of reasoning as a possibility however, probable or improbable it may be.
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Madam Pince - Aug 3, 2006 11:35 am (#1099 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
This is going back quite a ways, but... The One said: "But what if Harry defeats Voldemort in some way without killing him, then has him at his mercy? Should he then kill him off in cold blood? There is not many stories I have seen where that happens. The Vietnam movie Platoon is the only one I can remember."
Oooh, don't forget The Patriot and the big climactic scene where Mel Gibson's character kills off Jason Isaac's (supremely evil) character. It was most satisfying -- to me, anyway! Also that classic TV episode of Magnum, PI where Magnum took out the evil guy Ivan who had tortured and killed Magnum's buddies in Vietnam and then killed another friend in Hawaii -- very similar situation -- "Did you see the sunrise this morning? ***pow!***" I think I am on the bandwagon of folks that think Voldy will deserve everything he gets, and it will not be lowering Harry to a sub-level if he's the one who takes him out. I do rather expect, however, that JKR won't make it quite so direct as it was in The Patriot or similar -- I think it will be a more indirect death but that Harry will be the ultimate reason behind it.
JKR's comments in the recent Radio City interviews have me even more worried about Hagrid. I was sure before that he wouldn't make it through Book 7, and I just get a bad feeling even more after the Radio City comments.
I think it's a good possibility that Viktor Krum may end up getting offed in Book 7, fighting for the "good" side. It would be a convenient way for Hermione to get viscerally involved in hating Voldemort as much as Harry does, because I think she still retains a strong "friend" fondness for Viktor.
I hadn't thought of this before, but maybe all the students who unite with Harry against Voldy at the end will be united because of a very personal loss at Voldy's hands? Harry's and Neville's are already obvious; maybe Hermione's will be Viktor (almost would have to be as we have no other "family" characters for her that have been mentioned more than in passing); I've thought for some time that Draco's may be one or both of his parents getting killed; and that perhaps Ron's may be Percy or even Molly or Arthur?
Man, it's getting bloody out there. JKR did say in part of her interview at Radio City that "...I'm toughening them (readers) up for John Irving's and Stephen King's books ... it's a cruel literary world out there."
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Deb Zawacki - Aug 3, 2006 2:36 pm (#1100 of 1297)
Not to DIS Jo but I don't put a lot of stock in the hidden agendas of her answers--right before HBP was released she was on a morning talk show--with KAtie Couric I think, and tried to bluff her way through saying--everyone thinks I'm going to kill off Dumbledore...
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Draco was pretty resentful of Snape in HBP, so it would take a good bit of convincing to make Draco believe Snape and change sides.
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Magic Words - Jul 19, 2006 6:36 pm (#1052 of 1297)
Draco thought Snape was out to steal his glory. He can either resent Snape for succeeding (meaning he still considers glory the overriding issue) or be grateful to Snape for saving his neck. I predict the latter.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 20, 2006 5:48 pm (#1053 of 1297)
I was lurking on another thread when something caught my eye. "Dirt" is supposed to be connected with killing,murder and death.On the train at the beginning of S.S. Ron had dirt on his chin and later Hermione mentioned it. Is this another clue that Ron will die?
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nthdavid - Jul 21, 2006 1:35 am (#1054 of 1297)
Oh no, shades of Abbey Road. Have any of the characters been barefoot?
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Deb Zawacki - Jul 21, 2006 6:48 am (#1055 of 1297)
Much discussion on which good guys will be taken---there were bets that something would happen at the wedding....easily kill off someone (or ones) right away as collateral damage that sets off plot twists throughout--for example someone returning through the veil etc.
So if we assume the deaths and reprieves will come from the "good side"..... Are there any deaths on the DE side that would be meaningful in terms of the outcome-- would anyone care if Bellatrix died? Would Draco's death make a bit of difference--or Snape's at this point. I think that some of the bad boys need to start dying for the survivirs on that side to question whether alligning with V is still actually in their best interest. Personally I want to see some of them go or something happens so that their kids--like Crabbe and Goyle finally realize it's time to stop.
My guess would be that the deaths and reprieve have to directly affect Harry and his mind-set. This whole time we have been told he has to get his emotions under control and whatever loss he feels can't put him in either a loose-cannon state or too catatonic to function. Some of which will depend on whether he witnesses a killing or finds out after the fact. In any case, they have to strengthen his determination rather than his rage.
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Deb Zawacki - Jul 21, 2006 7:06 am (#1056 of 1297)
Peter still owes a debt to Harry that has not been repaid. I hope that is not overlooked in Book 7 as Peter "taking a bullet for Harry" may be his only redemption.
I also wonder that if anyone gets killed protecting Harry directly--will that offer him any more protection? So that Voldemort AK's himself again-maybe this time ERASING the scar?
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Solitaire - Jul 21, 2006 10:54 am (#1057 of 1297)
I've wondered about that, as well, Deb. I posted a similar question or theory (not about erasing the scar, just about the AK rebounding) somewhere about a week ago. I can't remember which thread.
Solitaire
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Thom Matheson - Jul 21, 2006 5:32 pm (#1058 of 1297)
I can't shake the feeling that Snape would be involved with that. The whole, I'm sorry Lily thing, and as Harry is about to take one from Voldemort, Snape jumps in and takes one for the team, or in fact out guns Voldemort and they trade shots of AK and kill each other. Harry survives.
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haymoni - Jul 21, 2006 5:44 pm (#1059 of 1297)
The Boy Who Lived Again
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Honour - Jul 21, 2006 6:51 pm (#1060 of 1297)
I actually don't think that Peter repaying a "life debt" to Harry is all that realistic. He has no remorse with his actions that contributed to Harry's parents deaths, nor Sirius' imprisonment, and he was and is willing enough to help Voldermort entrap and hurt Harry in GOF. I don't think this character is redeemable.
If Severus does "take one" from Voldermort it will not be for Harry or Lily. If there was some kind of "friendship" between Lily and Severus, Lily's taken up with and marrying James would have nullified this. Severus may have had some regret with his contribution towards Voldermort knowing about the prophesy but I think Severus' dealings with Voldermort is on a wholey personal level, which will be revealed in book 7.
So to go back to this thread "Who will die in book 7?" I think Ron will die sacrificing himself for Harry, Molly may die protecting one of her brood, Viktor may get hurt badly or die protecting Hermione, Narcissa protecting Draco, probably against Bellatrix, Greyback will die by Peter's hand (maybe Peter will do this protecting Remus) can't see it though, Peter will die at the hands of Severus, and er yes Voldermort ...
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Deb Zawacki - Jul 21, 2006 7:54 pm (#1061 of 1297)
Would Ron's death, perhaps by standing in front of Hermione offer her some protection? He loves her...yes? If Ron dies willHarry and hermione end up together after the battle--perhaps raising a little Ron Jr.? Could Ron and Hermione actually marry during the summer as they are both of age....but this secret not be revealed until the end, after Ron dies?
Or would there just be some tearful goodbye between Harry and Hermione..."you take care of yourself" I'm going to live with Viktor....
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Honour - Jul 22, 2006 8:48 pm (#1062 of 1297)
I really don't know if Harry will realise his deepest desire to have his own family or, if like Dumbledore, later on eventually sacrifices his life to watch over the young magicians coming through Hogwarts ever vigilant, watching the signs, waiting for the next Voldermort, and the next 'boy who lived'. As for Hermione, eventually, I have also pictured her in a very similar role to Minerva, constantly watching, knowing the importance of her role as Harry's friend and probably to some extent confidante. Romance between them? I picture their relationship as similar to Dumbledores and Minervas, the very best of friends ...
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 27, 2006 9:58 pm (#1063 of 1297)
Hary's deepest desire has never been to have his own family. He's never even thought about it. He always had a deep desire to get his family (parents especially) BACK, but he had never thought about being an adult and having a family of his own.
As for Ron dying so Harry can wind up with Hermione, I'd forget it if anyone's seriously considering it. Jo wouldn't let the H/Hr shippers get dissed the way they did, if that was her twist. (Just my honest opinion.) Telling them to go back and reread, and letting them get called delusional was pretty harsh. I've often wondered if Hermione could get back with Viktor, though. I could see them going off and starting some wizarding version of the UN.
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Solitaire - Jul 27, 2006 10:24 pm (#1064 of 1297)
Even if Ron AND Ginny were to die, that is no guarantee Harry and Hermione would become a couple.
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Honour - Jul 28, 2006 7:07 am (#1065 of 1297)
The reason I thought Ron might die was not so that Harry would "end up with Hermione", (I myself have always been partial to the Viktor and Hermione pairing) I just remember the sacrifice Ron made of himself in P/S - playing chess - so I could actually see him doing something similar again.
Maybe you are right Die Zimtzicke, maybe it isn't canon that Harry would like his own family, I must have read between the lines and ended up in left field. I always got the impression he covetted (is that too strong a word?) the Weasley brood, and did fit in with them quite easily.
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journeymom - Jul 28, 2006 3:32 pm (#1066 of 1297)
Ron might die but I don't think it will be because of the chess game. The chess game was analogous of Dumbledore's part in the whole story. Dumbledore sacrificed himself (like Ron did in the game) so Harry could go on and face Voldemort.
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Honour - Jul 29, 2006 4:45 am (#1067 of 1297)
Sorry jouneymom, I must not have made myself clear, no I don't think that the possibility of Ron dying would have anything to do with the chess game he played in PS, I meant that as Ron is Harry's and Hermione's loyal friend that he could possibly sacrifice himself for them.
I thought Dumbledore sacrificed himself more for Draco than Harry. Harry's being 'frozen' by Dumbledore, I always thought was not a means of keeping Harry safe but rather to have Harry bare witness to his death. If Dumbledore really wanted Harry to be safe, he would have landed in the grounds and had Harry get Hagrid, or even sent his patronus to Hagrid as he had done in the past. Dumbledore initally wanted Harry to fetch Severus, a task made harder, and then in the end not even do-able, by landing on the tower?. Why didn't they go via the lake and enter through the way the 'first years' arrive, at least this way, they would have been closer to Severus' rooms. No that night Harry was the witness, to report to the Order and the rest of the magical world that Severus killed Dumbledore.
Now back to this thread? I stand by my previous post #1060
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Deb Zawacki - Jul 29, 2006 7:37 pm (#1068 of 1297)
I think that Dumbledore also wanted to show Harry that compassion extends even to the likes of Draco--whom Dumbledore must have felt worth redemption--he gave Draco a choice--and that hesitation saved him. Dumbedore is always going on about choice defining character.
We know Draco has been struggling with his dilemma, despite his false bravado in front of his friends, and his disdain for Harry. Perhaps, as with Snape, Dumbledore believed in his being trustworthy and loyal.
How can Draco be feeling after failing in his mission--knowing that either Voldemort will find out, or that he must lie to save his family--in any light he must be filled with self-doubt and loathing. His father would probably spit on him. As for whether Harry will tell his frinds what he witnessed, who knows. Harry, when tested comes out smelling like a rose--the perpetual hero.
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Honour - Jul 30, 2006 2:08 pm (#1069 of 1297)
"As for whether Harry will tell his friends what he witnessed, who knows ..."
HBP;The Phoenix Lament Chapter ...
"How did he die?" whispered Tonks. "How did it happen?" "Snape killed him", said Harry. "I was there, I saw it ..."
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Deb Zawacki - Jul 30, 2006 5:13 pm (#1070 of 1297)
Yes, but did he tell them that Draco was going to....
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Honour - Jul 31, 2006 12:15 am (#1071 of 1297)
yes, probably Deb Zawacki. But it was more important for the story line, at the very moment for Harry to relay to everyone at Bill's hospital bed that it was Severus who killed Dumbledore. I think compared to Dumbledore's death Draco's would be involvement is secondary.
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Deb Zawacki - Jul 31, 2006 7:55 pm (#1072 of 1297)
Maybe--dunno--we are going on Harry's perceptions and lack of seeing "the whole picture"--the unbreakable vow at Spinner's End, Draco's angst over an assignment he willingly accepted from Voldemort and the fact that Snape had to cover Draco's hind parts for real or for show.
I didn't see anyone of the main characters going chasing after Snape--maybe Arthur or a few may know that the death--again real or fake--would have to occur at some point as part of a larger picture.
Perhaps SOMEONE like Minerva--who would keep his confidence--would have to know what was going on to make sure Harry was protected. She might raise objections but she would not be able to over-rule him.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 1, 2006 5:02 pm (#1073 of 1297)
J.K. Rowling's statement at the press conference in New York City is intriguing because ,in part it reads as follows:
"I can resolve the story now and it's fun in a way it wasn't before because finally I've reached my resolution, and I think some people will loathe it and some people will love it, but that's how it should be." "We're working towards the end I always planned but a couple of characters I expected to survive have died and one character got a reprieve," she said, declining to elaborate.
The question is which two characters did J.K. initially expect to survive any thoughts or ideas?
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Madame Pomfrey - Aug 1, 2006 6:16 pm (#1074 of 1297)
Nathan,I don't think she would change the ending she had always planned so I don't think it would be Harry either way. Working towards the end..I think maybe Snape would get the reprieve even though I hope it is anybody else(Good characters,I mean.)I might change my mind later,of course.I dunno...the ones she always thought would survive I think would be characters that she loves or else she would probably want to kill them*Umbridge* I think one of the trio,probably Ron and maybe even McGonnagal.Ooh,I'm misty eyed already.How about Draco?I wonder if he'll make it? How about you? Do you have anyone in mind? Perhaps we should look for clues that might cause suspect that the person would die.That could be our reprieve.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 1, 2006 6:42 pm (#1075 of 1297)
Given the statement about some people loathing the end I tend to think that the following possibilities are probable.
I think that given the wording at least of the sextet of Harry, Ron, Hermione, Neville, Ginny and Luna may have be a possible victim.
It is also possible when taken in conjunction with Minerva McGonagall's statement to Harry about becoming an Auror that she will be a victim.
When J.K. Rowling said some would loathe the ending that the following Possibilities should be considered
Hagrid, Tonks, or Remus, a character beloved by most but not all people is killed.
Arthur or Molly Weasley or another not mentioned above including Fleur or Percy are killed.
In terms of the reprieve five candidates occurred to me:
Peter Pettigrew
Severus Snape
Bellatrix Black Lestrange
Draco Malfoy
Voldemort
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Solitaire - Aug 1, 2006 7:33 pm (#1076 of 1297)
I tend to think Bella will die, and I am starting to think it may be Voldemort who kills her. I think she has "outlived her usefulness" and may become too much of a liability in Book 7.
I agree with Madame Pomfrey about Harry. I do not think his fate is going to change. It will be whatever it was ... whatever that is. I do think one of the six--possibly one of the Trio--is going to die. (This could include Harry.)
I have thought Hagrid was doomed all along, so maybe he is one who will get a reprieve. I also hope Remus lives. He has had kind of a sad life, and I really think he deserves some happiness.
Solitaire
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Soul Search - Aug 1, 2006 7:49 pm (#1077 of 1297)
My thought is that at least one of the marauders should survive. Basicly, Harry should have one connection to his parents and godfather. My choice would be Lupin. Too bad for Wormtail.
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Deb Zawacki - Aug 1, 2006 8:27 pm (#1078 of 1297)
Draco dying could set up some real drama--in terms of him suffering and death-bed apologies. His moother's agony and Lucius going balstic. OR Narcissa protecting him, ttig illd but Draco ending up with a scar! Or Draco as a ghost groom with Myrtle
Here's a twist--Hagrid restored to full power as headmaster of Hogwarts! And STAN Shunpike the new custodian.
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Solitaire - Aug 1, 2006 9:38 pm (#1079 of 1297)
Oooh! I like Draco and Myrtle as a ghost-couple! hehe
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 2, 2006 8:22 am (#1080 of 1297)
I've always thought Harry might have to die to win, and that he would go on to the next great adventure and finally have a better life than he had here, but I completely agree that what happens with Harry is fixed, always has been and nothing will change it. That's not going to be one of the things she changes her mind on. If she ever admits she changed the plan for him, I'm going to be totally shocked.
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Good Evans - Aug 2, 2006 11:48 am (#1081 of 1297)
Practically perfect in every way
I have read and re read that transcript and I am not convinced that Jo was telling us about new deaths (although I accept that it is extrememly unlikely that we can get through 7 without a major death). She talks about 2 deaths, If I remember rightly she said she cried after killing off Sirius, but it had to be done. And of course Dumbledore has gone the way of the veil too (if you beleive such things). She may not have planned to orginally kill either one, but that was how it developed, they were too talented and too close to Harry.
The most vulnerable character in my eyes is Hagrid, who has always been there for Harry (more so than the other two!) and I suspect the repreive came to Remus as he now has the love interest with Tonks.
To lose Ron or Hermione would be devastating, as she has set them up to a "get together". If she planned to do away with one, I would have thought the relationship would not have developed with each other, it makes them too close to the reader (IMHO). Mybe it is one of these two that initally was going to die and it is their hormones that have saved them?
Of the lesser characters yes, Malfoys / Lestranges / all look pretty vulnerable to me McGonnagall, Moody and a Weasley or two may also be in the fray.
I dont know - just more rambling thoughts I guess.
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 2, 2006 2:43 pm (#1082 of 1297)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
Given the number of near misses we've already seen with several Weasleys, I'd be surprised too if they all made it through.
I'm not holding out for JKR sparing any of us from anything devastating either! Plenty of folks were devastated over Sirius and Dumbledore.
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Madame Pomfrey - Aug 2, 2006 9:12 pm (#1083 of 1297)
Jo said that she would invite Harry, Hermione, and Ron to eat with her. Then she paused and said that the problem with doing this is that she knows who dies in Book 7. Then she said that if she could pick dead people, she would pick Dumbledore, and the paused, and said her last person would be Hagrid.
Is it just me or does it sound like Hagrid will die?
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Mediwitch - Aug 2, 2006 9:25 pm (#1084 of 1297)
"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
I agree Madame Pomfrey. It also seems as though perhaps Harry, Ron, and Hermione might be spared, as she named them, then said "if she could pick dead people" she would pick Dumbledore.
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Solitaire - Aug 2, 2006 9:31 pm (#1085 of 1297)
So she doesn't want to have dinner with Snape?
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wynnleaf - Aug 2, 2006 11:55 pm (#1086 of 1297)
As I understand it, she named HRH right off (well, sort of) and then tried to think of 2 others, but then said something about it being difficult because only she knew who lived and died. Something about how she said it made it fairly clear to the audience that she was thinking she could only list live characters. Anyway, she tried to recover and then mentioned DD as a character she'd like to invite (a safe one to mention, since his death is in HBP) and then mentioned Hagrid. Because by the time she mentioned the last two, she was clear that she could "invite" living or dead characters, her naming Hagrid doesn't necessarily mean anything.
Frankly, I don't think JKR was so much focused on "who do I want to invite," as much as "who can I mention that won't give something away," and then she inadvertently did it anyway.
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cindysuewho45 - Aug 3, 2006 2:02 am (#1087 of 1297)
Hi all, Just looking in to see what you all think. I just love that Tonks and Lupin are together and we my see them in love in book 7. But I also feel that JKR will kill a good amount of wizards, book 7 is at full on War at the start. I think that we will see love die and that both Tonks and Lupin will be killed. I do not want it to happen, but JKR is telling a story about a War and evil. And in that kind of War good will die alone with bad. And the more I think about it, the twins could be killed off too.
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The One - Aug 3, 2006 3:20 am (#1088 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
As the Ron/Hermione ship seems inevitable, I more and more expect Harry to die.
A lot of stories does indeed end up with the hero giving his life for the cause, and one possible ending is indeed that Harry gives up his life and the spirit of the trio lives on in Ron and Hermione.
I want Harry to survive, but I am getting worried.
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Lavandula - Aug 3, 2006 5:17 am (#1089 of 1297)
Elementary Teacher
Wynnleaf- You mentioned..."Frankly, I don't think JKR was so much focused on "who do I want to invite," as much as "who can I mention that won't give something away," and then she inadvertently did it anyway."
I agree with you on that one. I was thinking the lumping of Hagrid and DD together put them in a different group as the Harry, Ron, and Hermione group.
Or, on the other hand, is she stumbling over the first three at dinner too with the comment about being alive before continuing with her answer?
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Wizadora - Aug 3, 2006 8:38 am (#1090 of 1297)
I think she said Hagrid to cause concern amongst people, but I think he is the one who got a repreive. I also certianly don't think she will kill off Harry, although I do think it will look like he is dead for a while. My theory is he will fall through the veil but will be pushed out into the mysterious room in the DOM through love or something like that. We will all think he is gone but he will then walk out shock everyone and be minus his scar.
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Solitaire - Aug 3, 2006 9:08 am (#1091 of 1297)
on the other hand, is she stumbling over the first three at dinner too with the comment about being alive before continuing with her answer
I certainly think that is a possibility, Lavandula. I do not think her comment about inviting HRH to dinner can be construed as positive confirmation that they will make it out alive. The hesitation could have been for one or more of them. Just for the record, though, I believe Hagrid is going to get it in Book 7. He will sacrifice himself for Harry ... or Grawp, perhaps.
Solitaire
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haymoni - Aug 3, 2006 9:40 am (#1092 of 1297)
JKR loves Hagrid. She's said it before. When she was asked before the movies were made about which actors she had in mind to play which characters, she immediately said Robbie Coltrane for Hagrid.
I think "Hagrid" was always going to be one of her answers, along with the Trio, and she said Dumbledore - who wouldn't want to eat dinner with him???
That's not to say that Hagrid isn't going to die.
I just mean that no matter who else she named, I think she was always going to throw in Hagrid - the fact that she talks about eating with dead people wouldn't change his appearance on the list, whether he lives or dies.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 3, 2006 9:53 am (#1093 of 1297)
I think Ron might die and his place in Hermione's life could be filled by Viktor Krum given J.K. Rowling's statements concerning Viktor.
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 3, 2006 10:10 am (#1094 of 1297)
Well, no matter what she does she basically has an out, because if I heard it right, the question was about who she would invite to dinner if she could. She can't invite any of them, dead oralive, because none of them exist, so it's a moot point, isn't it?
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Madame Pomfrey - Aug 3, 2006 10:11 am (#1095 of 1297)
Nathan,What was the statement?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 3, 2006 10:31 am (#1096 of 1297)
There was question asked about Viktor Krum in the World Book Day Chat in 2004. bertieana: Will we be seeing Krum again any time soon? JK Rowling replies -> You will see Krum again, though not soon
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Steve Newton - Aug 3, 2006 10:38 am (#1097 of 1297)
Librarian
That line seems to be weak evidence for an ongoing relationship with Vikkie. I'm willing to bet that its Ron and Hermione through thick and thin.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 3, 2006 10:51 am (#1098 of 1297)
Steve I am inclined to although case have been proved using weaker evidence. So I reserve judgment on the matter. I postulated the line of reasoning as a possibility however, probable or improbable it may be.
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Madam Pince - Aug 3, 2006 11:35 am (#1099 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
This is going back quite a ways, but... The One said: "But what if Harry defeats Voldemort in some way without killing him, then has him at his mercy? Should he then kill him off in cold blood? There is not many stories I have seen where that happens. The Vietnam movie Platoon is the only one I can remember."
Oooh, don't forget The Patriot and the big climactic scene where Mel Gibson's character kills off Jason Isaac's (supremely evil) character. It was most satisfying -- to me, anyway! Also that classic TV episode of Magnum, PI where Magnum took out the evil guy Ivan who had tortured and killed Magnum's buddies in Vietnam and then killed another friend in Hawaii -- very similar situation -- "Did you see the sunrise this morning? ***pow!***" I think I am on the bandwagon of folks that think Voldy will deserve everything he gets, and it will not be lowering Harry to a sub-level if he's the one who takes him out. I do rather expect, however, that JKR won't make it quite so direct as it was in The Patriot or similar -- I think it will be a more indirect death but that Harry will be the ultimate reason behind it.
JKR's comments in the recent Radio City interviews have me even more worried about Hagrid. I was sure before that he wouldn't make it through Book 7, and I just get a bad feeling even more after the Radio City comments.
I think it's a good possibility that Viktor Krum may end up getting offed in Book 7, fighting for the "good" side. It would be a convenient way for Hermione to get viscerally involved in hating Voldemort as much as Harry does, because I think she still retains a strong "friend" fondness for Viktor.
I hadn't thought of this before, but maybe all the students who unite with Harry against Voldy at the end will be united because of a very personal loss at Voldy's hands? Harry's and Neville's are already obvious; maybe Hermione's will be Viktor (almost would have to be as we have no other "family" characters for her that have been mentioned more than in passing); I've thought for some time that Draco's may be one or both of his parents getting killed; and that perhaps Ron's may be Percy or even Molly or Arthur?
Man, it's getting bloody out there. JKR did say in part of her interview at Radio City that "...I'm toughening them (readers) up for John Irving's and Stephen King's books ... it's a cruel literary world out there."
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Deb Zawacki - Aug 3, 2006 2:36 pm (#1100 of 1297)
Not to DIS Jo but I don't put a lot of stock in the hidden agendas of her answers--right before HBP was released she was on a morning talk show--with KAtie Couric I think, and tried to bluff her way through saying--everyone thinks I'm going to kill off Dumbledore...
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Who will die in books 6/7 (Post 1101 to 1150)
Elanor Sat May 21, 2011 11:05 am
Madame Pomfrey - Aug 3, 2006 3:41 pm (#1101 of 1297)
Didn't Jo say she would have the trio to dinner right after Stephen king did?Then she paused and said she had to be careful because she knows whose going to die or something like that.What if the idea occured to her after already accidently blurting out the trio? gee,I hope they all make it.It still sounds like Hagrid is in trouble though.
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haymoni - Aug 3, 2006 3:47 pm (#1102 of 1297)
So... does that make Harry safe??
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 3, 2006 4:03 pm (#1103 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
No, sorry, it doesn't. I seem to remember someone who read too much into something Rowling did and/or didn't say and how she said it. Something to do with Pansy Parkinson, if I recall.
Marcus
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Soul Search - Aug 3, 2006 5:36 pm (#1104 of 1297)
I think we are reading too much into the dinner question. She hesitated before naming Dumbledore only because of the trouble she has had with the "Dumbledore is not dead crowd." Had she just named the five names, speculation about Dumbledore would have reached new heights. (I think if I were asked the question, I wouldn't pick Sirius, or James, or Lily, because I know they are dead.)
That said, I would raise the trio's and Hagrid's chances of survival after her comments.
Who would want to "have dinner" with Hagrid. Great character, I like him, but I am not sure I would choose him for a dinner companion. Especially if he has anything to do with preparing dinner.
I am wondering about all the characters she didn't mention. Many could be interesting dinner companions.
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Chemyst - Aug 3, 2006 5:38 pm (#1105 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Dinner with Hagrid? Um, who is doing the cooking?
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Madam Pince - Aug 3, 2006 5:48 pm (#1106 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
You know, it's funny, but I would've never even remotely considered whether or not being dead or potentially dead would enter into the question of who you'd like to have dinner with, if JKR hadn't brought that point up. I'd just have "read" the question as "Which of your characters do you find the most interesting?" and let it go at that. So I don't really know what to make of her selections. Was she really considering that she couldn't have dinner with someone who's dead, or was she just caught up in the Dumbledore-is-dead issue from the previous question? Hmmmmm.... what a mess.
Reminds me of the Monty Python dinner table -- "You're DEAD!" "But... but... I didn't even eat the mousse!"
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Solitaire - Aug 3, 2006 9:51 pm (#1107 of 1297)
I concur with your assessment of the question, Madam Pince. She could have said she'd like to have James and Sirius together with the Weasley twins ... and I wouldn't have thought a thing about it, despite the fact that both James and Sirius are dead.
I'm afraid I must agree with Marcus, that just because HRH and Hagrid are mentioned as dinner compantions does not mean they have been reprieved from death.
Solitaire
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Wizadora - Aug 4, 2006 6:57 am (#1108 of 1297)
Personally, I don't have high hopes for Herminone's mum and dad. We haven't had much immediate muggle death action. Of the two sets we have, someone has to die, either Mr or Mrs Granger or a Dursley.
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Deb Zawacki - Aug 4, 2006 1:40 pm (#1109 of 1297)
Vernon can go, as far as I'm concerned. He HAS to be about the most useless Muggle in the story--wouldn't be much of a loss in my book though I bet he'd sell Harry out to Voldemort in a flash.
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Solitaire - Aug 4, 2006 5:19 pm (#1110 of 1297)
Yeah, I think Uncle Vernon is a pretty miserable excuse for a Muggle.
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Good Evans - Aug 5, 2006 1:23 am (#1111 of 1297)
Practically perfect in every way
LOL Deb an Soli !!!
I agree that the Grangers are prime targets, but Vernon is afterall just a scared, pompous fool. It doesm't make him a bad person. He has treated Harry very badly - out of fear rather than a wish to be a child abuser I suspect. I can't agree he deserves to die, but I agree he is a rather useless muggle!!
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wynnleaf - Aug 6, 2006 1:05 pm (#1112 of 1297)
From The Leaky Cauldron report from that event
She was also asked which of her characters she would like to take to dinner, and at first immediately named Harry, Ron and Hermione - then when naming a fourth, paused and groaned, and said that the problem with doing such was that she already knew who died (presumably in book six). She went on to name Dumbledore and Hagrid, the latter seeming like an "of course" answer that relieved her from giving something away with the other answers.
Mugglenet Report
- While Jo is listing the characters who she'd invite to dinner, she names the trio but then pauses. The crowd begins to shout out other characters, but Jo responds, "I'm the only one who knows who lives through the series," accidentally implying that she could only list characters who make it through the final book. Her final two choices (after realizing what she said) were Dumbledore and Hagrid.
Another Mugglenet Report
The next question was a fascinating one: if you were to have dinner with any five characters of any of your books, who would it be? Immediately Rowling said “Harry… to apologize to him.” Which solicited gasps and screams of “no!” from the audience. She then added that she would have Ron and Hermione. Here she paused saying “but I know who’s dead!” In my opinion, the fact that Ron and Hermione made the cut before this declaration bodes well for our favorite side-kicks. She then decided she would have Dumbledore at her dinner party, and joked that she would host Hagrid “because he wouldn’t take up too much space.”
Other individuals viewing the event seemed to feel that JKR's comment about knowing who was dead indicated that when mentioning the first three, she was trying to think of characters that are still "alive," who she could invite. But then she realized that she'd made a gaff and tried to correct it by mentioning DD (a safe bet, since she's already saying he's dead), and then Hagrid.
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Solitaire - Aug 6, 2006 2:03 pm (#1113 of 1297)
Well, I suppose she could also want to apologize to Harry for killing him!
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 6, 2006 5:14 pm (#1114 of 1297)
I don't know what to make of the dinner party thing. It's not comclusive proof for me either way. As far as we know, no one is dead yet, and she knows that. She bends over backwards not even to spoil things for HBP even now. She isn't finished anyway. So it's a tricky question to base a theory on.
She might even have started to answer not thinking it mattered if they were dead or alive or not, then stopped because she was not sure if they could be dead or alive. The questioner himself certainly didn't specify alive or dead. He just said any character from her books. That's pretty wide open.
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 7, 2006 4:25 pm (#1115 of 1297)
I know there has been a lot of controversy about Jo's comments in NYC. My belief is she has always planned on the trio surviving. But sometimes I doubt... I listened to her interview on Richard and Judy and she said when she told her husband who the two additional deaths were he shuddered when he heard one of the names and said "not that one." I've been thinking, who could make a grown man shudder. I wouldn't think the death of an adult would do that, unless maybe the death of Hagrid because Harry loves him so much. I keep thinking it is one of the students. At first I was convinced it was Hermoine and just dreaded it. Now, I don't think so. I hope it's not Neville or Luna or one of the Twins. I've never believed Ron would die. I don't know why but I never have. I adore all of them so of course I get distraught when I think about it.
I love Remus to death so I'm convinced he's toast. His life has been so hard but I don't think he'll get to live happily ever after with Tonks. I've said this before but I can't see the Weasleys getting through this without a death or two. It's war after all. I keep going back to OOTP and Molly's boggart.
I never thought that Harry would die but I've always felt if one of the trio had to go I wanted it to be him. I don't want him too but I don't think he could stand it if he survived but Ron or Hermoine didn't. It would break his heart. Ginny's death would kill him as well. I'd rather it be him and at least he could be with his family, Sirius, and DD again.
Ahh, the anticipation, not to mention the fear... I'm quite convinced that as soon as I open book 7 I will burst into tears. :/
Also that classic TV episode of Magnum, PI where Magnum took out the evil guy Ivan who had tortured and killed Magnum's buddies in Vietnam and then killed another friend in Hawaii -- very similar situation -- "Did you see the sunrise this morning? ***pow!***"
Madam Pince - I saw that and have always remembered that scene! No one else seems to. I should have known a Harry Potter fan would remember!
Lily
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Madam Pince - Aug 7, 2006 8:15 pm (#1116 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Welcome to the Forum, lily! You have made great posts -- we are so glad to welcome you!
Yes, I'll never forget that Magnum scene. I think it says something about my bloodthirstiness that I jumped up and pumped the air with my fist and yelled "Yeahhhhh!" See, this is why I have no problem with Voldy being taken out in a big way....
I am convinced that the shudder and the "No, not that one!" has to refer to Hagrid. I can't imagine who else would evince that reaction, sadly.
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Wizadora - Aug 8, 2006 2:36 pm (#1117 of 1297)
I actually think that Lupin will survive and Hermonie will finally find a better potion than Wolfsbane to help all werewolves.
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Solitaire - Aug 8, 2006 2:37 pm (#1118 of 1297)
Oh, I hope you are right, Wizadora.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Aug 9, 2006 4:23 am (#1119 of 1297)
I have this image of someone (Hermione?) finding a cure for lycanthropy and spiking Greyback's drink. He finds himself cured and an outcast from his fellow werewolves.
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 9, 2006 12:01 pm (#1120 of 1297)
If anyone does that, I doubt if it's going to be Hermione. I think Hermione lucked out with the polyjuice. She got it done because the instructions were good. I don't think she's that talented a potions maker, and we KNOW she's not innovative. If she can't follow directions exactly, she has a meltdown.
I still wish either Molly or Ginny would die, but I think Hagrid one of is the most likely, after reading what came out of New York. I was surprised Jo didn't mention any of the other Weasleys besides Ron there, when she was being questioned.
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Valfunde - Aug 9, 2006 1:59 pm (#1121 of 1297)
University Pre-Health Professions Advisor
Edited by Aug 9, 2006 2:14 pm
For quite a long time now I have felt that Lupin's number is up. I think it would be a very "literary" thing to do to have both Lupin and possibly Pettigrew die in the 7th book. All male characters with a possible "fatherly" connection to Harry have died so far. Lupin and Pettigrew are the last of the Marauders as well and it would be fitting to have Lupin with his buddies again on the other side.
I think that Snape is the character that got the reprieve. I don't think Jo knew exactly how "popular" Snape would become when she structured the plot years ago. I've based this on my instinct and my interpretation of how Jo said some fans will absolutely loathe her decisions on who gets the reprieve or dies. (What fan would loathe Harry getting the reprieve?!) There are tons of Snape "haters" out there (even those of us who can "appreciate him" view him as loathsome)and with DD's death, many will not agree with the reprieve. I honestly think that Harry was never planned to die. If you look at the literary conventions of hero myths and legends, the hero doesn't always die. The hero saves humankind, conquers over "evil" and brings something benefical back to the world. Harry will come close to death, and he might even look like he has died, but he won't.
Oh, something else to add - I tend not to think of Voldemort as counting as one of the characters who will die. I think it's almost a given. Perhaps Voldy gets the Dementors' kiss - a fate worse than death. It would be ironic too and he would be "out of the way" so to speak, but not properly dead, but out of commission forever, which is all we need anyway!
I think Jo's husband's reaction could be explained by the death of Lupin, or as others have said, Hagrid. He could be a goner. (Wow. Just thinking of Hagrid dying has brought tears to my eyes. I too think I will just start crying as soon as I have Book 7 in my hands...)
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legolas returns - Aug 9, 2006 3:46 pm (#1122 of 1297)
There wont be that many people left after the end of the war-so many have already died.
I imagine because the order have lost Dumbledore more of them will die. They seemed to suffer in the Ministry of Magic until Dumbledore arrived and they seemed to be getting nowhere at Hogwarts at the end of HBP.
I would be unconsolable if Lupin died. I would be very upset about any Weasley except Percy. I think it would be difficult for the Death Eaters to kill Hagrid because of his part Giant blood. Mad eye might be next for the chop. The only person I want to die is Voldemort.
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Magic Words - Aug 9, 2006 6:27 pm (#1123 of 1297)
Valfunde, those are some good thoughts on Snape. You have given me hope.
I think I would actually be more upset over Percy dying than, say, Bill or Charlie. Percy doesn't deserve death, he needs to come to his senses and reconcile with his family. He can't do that if he's dead.
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Solitaire - Aug 9, 2006 8:47 pm (#1124 of 1297)
I wouldn't mourn if Snape died. I might, however, forgive him for being so nasty if he were to give his life heroically, so that the Trio or Remus (or someone else worthy) could live.
Solitaire
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Madam Pince - Aug 10, 2006 7:49 am (#1125 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Really, Solitaire? I never would've guessed it!
Magic Words, what if Percy reconciles with his family and does something heroic to save one (or more) of them, and then ends up biting the dust? That's how I'm picturing it. I was wondering if that might have been part of JKR's reference in the recent interview when she was asked about "redemptive qualities" (in reference to Snape and/or Draco) and she replied something along the lines of "Anyone can be redemptive." Made me wonder who else she was thinking of. Could be Percy.
***Waves at legolas returns -- welcome back! I still think fondly of your previous name of Haggis and Irn Bru as one of my favorite Forum names ever!***
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wynnleaf - Aug 10, 2006 9:12 am (#1126 of 1297)
I won't post it all here (because I can't copy and paste it), but if you read the just-released transcript of JKR's interview at the Radio City Music Hall (yes, The Leaky Cauldron now has the transcripts), I think it's pretty clear that she really was attempting to name characters that lived when she answered Harry, Ron and Hermione as characters she'd invite to dinner.
Go to The Leaky Cauldron, News and a Glance and you'll see the 2nd night transcripts listed.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 10, 2006 12:15 pm (#1127 of 1297)
As far as Muggles go I think one of the Creevy brothers might die.
I really like the Snape interpretation Valfunde. Frankly I would loathe to see him live. As a teacher he gives us all a bad name.
Since we know for sure about Dumbledore we will have to see if the Giant Squid shows up in book 7. It wasn't at the funeral. LPO
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Dr Filibuster - Aug 10, 2006 12:32 pm (#1128 of 1297)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
Erm, do you mean Muggleborns LPO?
I know Dennis sneaked out of Hogwarts somehow to join the DA, but surely the teachers would have sussed out a lack of magical powers by now if they were muggles. Lol!
Actually, the Creevys were high on lots of peoples' lists after GoF. They seemed to have quietend down a bit. Were they even mentioned in HBP?
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Madame Pomfrey - Aug 10, 2006 1:36 pm (#1129 of 1297)
I agree Wynnleaf.When the audience was yelling for her to say Hagrid.Thats when she said she knows who lives and dies then says Hagrid anyway.It sounds to me that the trio will live but Hagrid will die.Is that what it seems to everyone else or is it just me?
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Magic Words - Aug 10, 2006 1:58 pm (#1130 of 1297)
It seemed to me like JKR's remark about knowing who dies is in response to Stephen King saying "pick Hagrid."
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 10, 2006 6:18 pm (#1131 of 1297)
Dr. Filibuster, yes I mean Muggle born. Sorry! I don't remember if they were mentioned in HBP. Maybe their purpose is served.
Hagrid ties a lot of things together. Early on his life was impacted by Tom/Voldemort. He knows all about Tom. He was close to Harry's parents and he was Harry's first contact with the Wizarding World. Personally losing Hagrid will be harder than losing Dumbledore. LPO
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Mediwitch - Aug 10, 2006 8:28 pm (#1132 of 1297)
"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
If you follow the alchemical symbolism, (it's daunting, but I've really learned a lot on the alchemy thread!) Hagrid is pretty likely to die. I am expecting it, but with great sadness. I love Hagrid.
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painting sheila - Aug 10, 2006 8:30 pm (#1133 of 1297)
Doing one of the things I love best . . .
What about the Dursley's getting killed. Harry has a couple of months before he is considered "of age". I could see a bunch of DE's coming to the house and trying to get Harry and ending up killing Vernon and Dudley. Maybe Petunia id the one who redeems herself for Harry's sack some how. She has been showing some cracking around the edges as far as showing what she knows about the wizarding world.
I hate to think of losing Hagrid. With DD and Sirius - there still was that hope that their magic was so strong it could save them or bring them back some how. But with Hagrid - I don't see that happening.
I would cringe if Mr. Weasley were killed. He will be front lines now in the battle don't you think?
I want the 7th book so badly but at the same time dread ending it all!
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 10, 2006 8:45 pm (#1134 of 1297)
Hagrid dying would have no impact on me, because I think he was only interesting as Dumbledore's right hand man. With Dumbledore gone, he's lost his compass as a character. He no longer has the motivation he's had for six books. I think Dumbledore was Hagrid's mentor even more than Harry's, and I think Hagrid will be totally bereft without him and not very useful anymore.
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Solitaire - Aug 10, 2006 8:49 pm (#1135 of 1297)
The fact that McGonagall called Hagrid to join her meeting with the Heads of Houses was significant, I think. I suspect Hagrid's status at Hogwarts is about to be raised. Could he be the next Gryffindor Head of House?
Solitaire
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 10, 2006 8:53 pm (#1136 of 1297)
Maybe Hagrid could, but we can't even prove the school will be open, or that a large number of kids will be there.
If he is made head of house, he's lucky the twins are gone. I can't see him keeping much order. Even the Gryffindors know he's a pooor teacher. They just don't want to admit it.
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Solitaire - Aug 10, 2006 9:04 pm (#1137 of 1297)
They are also the only house, I think, who would probably give Hagrid the requisite respect. Our Trio, at any rate, love him, despite his teaching ability ... or lack of it. Given the state of affairs at Hogwarts, I think it is possible--assuming the school opens in the fall--that Hagrid could be made temporary Head of Gryffindor House.
Solitaire
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painting sheila - Aug 10, 2006 9:28 pm (#1138 of 1297)
Doing one of the things I love best . . .
I just read the transcript of RCMH and I think Hagrid definitely dies in Book 7. (sigh) It is upsetting to think about.
And I am excited to find out more about Petunia. Vernon and Dudley get killed by Dementors - Harry is able to save Petunia and whisks her away to the Weasley's house for safe keeping. She some how redeems herself and instead if her providing protection for Harry, Harry provides protection for her.
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Laura W - Aug 10, 2006 11:59 pm (#1139 of 1297)
No, I do not believe the Creevey brothers are mentioned in HBP. That doesn't, of course, mean they will not make an appearance in Book Seven but my feeling is they are not important enough to do so. Merlin knows, Jo has enough characters to explain to us in that final book without dragging in two minor students! (In fact, I have always liked the Creevey boys. I found their innocent enthusiasm and obvious brotherly love refreshing in a series of novels focused - albeit wonderfully - on cynicism, darkness and dysfunctional families.)
I disagree that Hagrid's purpose (value?) in the books is only that of DD's right hand man. He was the one who loved Harry from the very beginning. Jo gave him the honour of rescuing the baby from the ruins of his home (and kissing the infant before surrendering him to the Dursley's - the last kiss Harry was to receive from a caring adult for many years), and the additional honour of being the one to tell Harry about his heritage and prepare him for his first year of school. I think Jo did this to have Hagrid symbolize the unconditional love Harry lost when his parents died. And I have no doubt that Harry - Ron and Hermoine, too - feels the same way towards the half-giant, although the Potter boy has trouble expressing love and affection ... because he had not been shown it in his formative years. Still, look at his reaction when he thought the Death Eaters were going to finish Hagrid off! (HBP, p.561, Raincoast) And once again, Jo gave Hagrid the honour of being the first one Harry tells about Dumbledore's death and of going back to the castle with him.
If Hagrid dies in Book Seven, so continues the pattern of everybody Harry cares about being taken from him. (sob, sob)
I was very surprised when McGonagall invited Hagrid to her office to attend that crucial meeting, though. What qualified him to be present? Nothing, as far as I can see and something just didn't ring true about that. Still doesn't. Hagrid was obviously a really lousy teacher - although a lovely human being - and was thrown out of Hogwarts before graduating, to boot. I find the idea of him being Head of House to be ludicrous.
Laura
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haymoni - Aug 11, 2006 7:26 am (#1140 of 1297)
I don't think you need to be an excellent teacher to be Head of House.
The Trio - and others - will admit that Hagrid isn't a great teacher, but they like and respect him just the same.
I think he would be very understanding - especially to students that feel alone or different.
And you know that nobody would REALLY want to tick him off about anything. Imagine being yelled at by a half-giant!
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Thom Matheson - Aug 11, 2006 7:57 am (#1141 of 1297)
As you all speculate on the fate of Hagrid, what would happen to his brother. I can't see Jo killing Hagrid and leaving Grawp to fend for himself and I don't see how you can avoid any kind of storyline that would separate them. So unless both are killed, I can't see any other way to do it.
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Solitaire - Aug 11, 2006 9:02 am (#1142 of 1297)
Thom, I could see a scenario where both die. Remember that Grawp loves Hagrid and would probably demolish anyone who attempted to hurt him, if he were to see it happen. He also remembers Hermione, and I suspect he might come to her defense.
I wonder, though ... with Aragog gone, the "balance" of things in the Forest is not what it was. Could Grawp die at the "hands" of the spiders?
Solitaire
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Thom Matheson - Aug 11, 2006 11:01 am (#1143 of 1297)
Solitaire, if that is the case then is that the 2 deaths we have been referring to. My gut instinct is no, so if one isn't gone probably also not the other. I agree that both would be more likely then just one of the other.
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Choices - Aug 11, 2006 11:38 am (#1144 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I thought it very fitting that Hagrid was asked to meet with the others in Dumbledore's office (now McGonagall's). Hagrid is a teacher, the gamekeeper and keeper of keys at Hogwarts, but most important, he loved Dumbledore and was loyal to him and Dumbledore loved and trusted Hagrid with his life. Who better to help decide what happened to Dumbledore (his funeral) and the future of Hogwarts?
I think Hagrid would make a good head of house for Gryffindor, but I think the head has to have quarters near the common room to be handy in case of emergencies at night - I can't see Hagrid not being in his hut with Fang, and I definitely can't see him fitting through the entrance hole behind the Fat Lady's picture.
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Deb Zawacki - Aug 11, 2006 3:40 pm (#1145 of 1297)
Hagrid's death would be heart-wrenching for most people because he is such a loveable mutt-- but it would be one of the more noble and honorable of all. Hagrid's death would be a moment of greatness and tenderness and I believe that before he actually dies he may (in his way of "letting things slip" )actually give Harry the gift of some important information. In book 1 Dumbledore tells McG that he would trust Hagrid with his life and I believe that Hagrid would defend Harry to his own death. In a way, I envision it gbeing the one death where Harry actually has a chance to say goodbye and have a final meaningful conversation as opposed to all the other deaths that were instantaneous and unexpected. And I think that it will give Harry the strength and conviction to see everything through.
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 11, 2006 3:46 pm (#1146 of 1297)
I just got back into town and read the RCMH Transcript on Leaky. I had begun to believe that the Trio would survive and now I'm sure of it. I'm glad because I was really really worried about Hermoine. A long time ago during an interview, Jo made a comment in a response to a question about Ron that seemed to suggest she wouldn't kill him. Her words were "like I'd kill Harry's best friend" or something similar.
I do agree with those of you who think Jo's husband's shudder was in response to finding out that Hagrid dies. How devastating for Harry! As for Hagrid being Head of Gryffindor, I think it might work. No, he's not a good teacher but he's brave, courageous, loyal to the Order, and he'd die to save Hogwarts students just as I believe Dumbledore did. That's the mark of a Gryffindor.
I also think that Neville may die. I truly hope not. That would really upset me. Also, I couldn't stand it if Remus died. I adore him. He has suffered almost as much as Harry all his life. His best friends are dead, he's suffered so much discrimination that he can't get a job and can't even afford to buy decent robes. Also, he's living among murderous werewolves risking his life and his sanity for the Order and because Dumbledore asked him. I also believe he would die for Harry. He deserves to live and to have a life with Tonks. Just like Harry deserves to live and have a life with Ginny. I think Harry needs Remus. He would serve as a link to Harry's parents and to Sirius.
As for Snape, frankly...I despise him. I've heard Jo say numerous times that just because someone is working for the Order, or working against dark wizards, that doesn't necessarily make them a good person. She has flat out said that Snape is not a nice man regardless of whose side he is on. I think I mentioned this in my earlier post but having Harry read about his father and Sirius for detention so soon after Sirius' death was incredibly cruel. Harry believed that Snape did it on purpose to torment him and I agree. I hope the (bleeps out swear words) dies! Also, Umbridge is not a dark wizard but she is truly a nasty, evil person. She's a fanatic and that is truly dangerous. Jo says that Umbridge will align herself with whoever is Minister of Magic because she likes the power. Ugh. I hope she goes as well.
I get all worked up thinking about all this. Arrgghh. I'm glad to be back talking about my favorite subject.
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 11, 2006 3:48 pm (#1147 of 1297)
And I think that it will give Harry the strength and conviction to see everything through.
Deb, that's truly a comforting thought. I'll hang on to that!
Lily
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legolas returns - Aug 11, 2006 4:08 pm (#1148 of 1297)
I am far from convinced that Hagrid could be killed that easily because of his Giant blood. If Hagrid dies who will be the Head of Gryffindor.
I am just picturing the scene at the start of school when Hagrid is handing out timetables. He taps the timetable with his pink umbrella. The idea of that cracks me up.
Snape is an ideal candidate for the chop in my opinion.
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nthdavid - Aug 11, 2006 11:14 pm (#1149 of 1297)
"If Hagrid dies who will be the Head of Gryffindor."
Whichever of the Weasley's that ends up teaching DADA.
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Deb Zawacki - Aug 12, 2006 9:09 am (#1150 of 1297)
O Gosh they'll probably bring in Molly to Head Gryffindor and she'll teach cooking or home-economics or something bizarrely mundane.
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Didn't Jo say she would have the trio to dinner right after Stephen king did?Then she paused and said she had to be careful because she knows whose going to die or something like that.What if the idea occured to her after already accidently blurting out the trio? gee,I hope they all make it.It still sounds like Hagrid is in trouble though.
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haymoni - Aug 3, 2006 3:47 pm (#1102 of 1297)
So... does that make Harry safe??
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 3, 2006 4:03 pm (#1103 of 1297)
"Anyone can cook"
No, sorry, it doesn't. I seem to remember someone who read too much into something Rowling did and/or didn't say and how she said it. Something to do with Pansy Parkinson, if I recall.
Marcus
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Soul Search - Aug 3, 2006 5:36 pm (#1104 of 1297)
I think we are reading too much into the dinner question. She hesitated before naming Dumbledore only because of the trouble she has had with the "Dumbledore is not dead crowd." Had she just named the five names, speculation about Dumbledore would have reached new heights. (I think if I were asked the question, I wouldn't pick Sirius, or James, or Lily, because I know they are dead.)
That said, I would raise the trio's and Hagrid's chances of survival after her comments.
Who would want to "have dinner" with Hagrid. Great character, I like him, but I am not sure I would choose him for a dinner companion. Especially if he has anything to do with preparing dinner.
I am wondering about all the characters she didn't mention. Many could be interesting dinner companions.
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Chemyst - Aug 3, 2006 5:38 pm (#1105 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Dinner with Hagrid? Um, who is doing the cooking?
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Madam Pince - Aug 3, 2006 5:48 pm (#1106 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
You know, it's funny, but I would've never even remotely considered whether or not being dead or potentially dead would enter into the question of who you'd like to have dinner with, if JKR hadn't brought that point up. I'd just have "read" the question as "Which of your characters do you find the most interesting?" and let it go at that. So I don't really know what to make of her selections. Was she really considering that she couldn't have dinner with someone who's dead, or was she just caught up in the Dumbledore-is-dead issue from the previous question? Hmmmmm.... what a mess.
Reminds me of the Monty Python dinner table -- "You're DEAD!" "But... but... I didn't even eat the mousse!"
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Solitaire - Aug 3, 2006 9:51 pm (#1107 of 1297)
I concur with your assessment of the question, Madam Pince. She could have said she'd like to have James and Sirius together with the Weasley twins ... and I wouldn't have thought a thing about it, despite the fact that both James and Sirius are dead.
I'm afraid I must agree with Marcus, that just because HRH and Hagrid are mentioned as dinner compantions does not mean they have been reprieved from death.
Solitaire
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Wizadora - Aug 4, 2006 6:57 am (#1108 of 1297)
Personally, I don't have high hopes for Herminone's mum and dad. We haven't had much immediate muggle death action. Of the two sets we have, someone has to die, either Mr or Mrs Granger or a Dursley.
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Deb Zawacki - Aug 4, 2006 1:40 pm (#1109 of 1297)
Vernon can go, as far as I'm concerned. He HAS to be about the most useless Muggle in the story--wouldn't be much of a loss in my book though I bet he'd sell Harry out to Voldemort in a flash.
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Solitaire - Aug 4, 2006 5:19 pm (#1110 of 1297)
Yeah, I think Uncle Vernon is a pretty miserable excuse for a Muggle.
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Good Evans - Aug 5, 2006 1:23 am (#1111 of 1297)
Practically perfect in every way
LOL Deb an Soli !!!
I agree that the Grangers are prime targets, but Vernon is afterall just a scared, pompous fool. It doesm't make him a bad person. He has treated Harry very badly - out of fear rather than a wish to be a child abuser I suspect. I can't agree he deserves to die, but I agree he is a rather useless muggle!!
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wynnleaf - Aug 6, 2006 1:05 pm (#1112 of 1297)
From The Leaky Cauldron report from that event
She was also asked which of her characters she would like to take to dinner, and at first immediately named Harry, Ron and Hermione - then when naming a fourth, paused and groaned, and said that the problem with doing such was that she already knew who died (presumably in book six). She went on to name Dumbledore and Hagrid, the latter seeming like an "of course" answer that relieved her from giving something away with the other answers.
Mugglenet Report
- While Jo is listing the characters who she'd invite to dinner, she names the trio but then pauses. The crowd begins to shout out other characters, but Jo responds, "I'm the only one who knows who lives through the series," accidentally implying that she could only list characters who make it through the final book. Her final two choices (after realizing what she said) were Dumbledore and Hagrid.
Another Mugglenet Report
The next question was a fascinating one: if you were to have dinner with any five characters of any of your books, who would it be? Immediately Rowling said “Harry… to apologize to him.” Which solicited gasps and screams of “no!” from the audience. She then added that she would have Ron and Hermione. Here she paused saying “but I know who’s dead!” In my opinion, the fact that Ron and Hermione made the cut before this declaration bodes well for our favorite side-kicks. She then decided she would have Dumbledore at her dinner party, and joked that she would host Hagrid “because he wouldn’t take up too much space.”
Other individuals viewing the event seemed to feel that JKR's comment about knowing who was dead indicated that when mentioning the first three, she was trying to think of characters that are still "alive," who she could invite. But then she realized that she'd made a gaff and tried to correct it by mentioning DD (a safe bet, since she's already saying he's dead), and then Hagrid.
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Solitaire - Aug 6, 2006 2:03 pm (#1113 of 1297)
Well, I suppose she could also want to apologize to Harry for killing him!
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 6, 2006 5:14 pm (#1114 of 1297)
I don't know what to make of the dinner party thing. It's not comclusive proof for me either way. As far as we know, no one is dead yet, and she knows that. She bends over backwards not even to spoil things for HBP even now. She isn't finished anyway. So it's a tricky question to base a theory on.
She might even have started to answer not thinking it mattered if they were dead or alive or not, then stopped because she was not sure if they could be dead or alive. The questioner himself certainly didn't specify alive or dead. He just said any character from her books. That's pretty wide open.
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 7, 2006 4:25 pm (#1115 of 1297)
I know there has been a lot of controversy about Jo's comments in NYC. My belief is she has always planned on the trio surviving. But sometimes I doubt... I listened to her interview on Richard and Judy and she said when she told her husband who the two additional deaths were he shuddered when he heard one of the names and said "not that one." I've been thinking, who could make a grown man shudder. I wouldn't think the death of an adult would do that, unless maybe the death of Hagrid because Harry loves him so much. I keep thinking it is one of the students. At first I was convinced it was Hermoine and just dreaded it. Now, I don't think so. I hope it's not Neville or Luna or one of the Twins. I've never believed Ron would die. I don't know why but I never have. I adore all of them so of course I get distraught when I think about it.
I love Remus to death so I'm convinced he's toast. His life has been so hard but I don't think he'll get to live happily ever after with Tonks. I've said this before but I can't see the Weasleys getting through this without a death or two. It's war after all. I keep going back to OOTP and Molly's boggart.
I never thought that Harry would die but I've always felt if one of the trio had to go I wanted it to be him. I don't want him too but I don't think he could stand it if he survived but Ron or Hermoine didn't. It would break his heart. Ginny's death would kill him as well. I'd rather it be him and at least he could be with his family, Sirius, and DD again.
Ahh, the anticipation, not to mention the fear... I'm quite convinced that as soon as I open book 7 I will burst into tears. :/
Also that classic TV episode of Magnum, PI where Magnum took out the evil guy Ivan who had tortured and killed Magnum's buddies in Vietnam and then killed another friend in Hawaii -- very similar situation -- "Did you see the sunrise this morning? ***pow!***"
Madam Pince - I saw that and have always remembered that scene! No one else seems to. I should have known a Harry Potter fan would remember!
Lily
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Madam Pince - Aug 7, 2006 8:15 pm (#1116 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Welcome to the Forum, lily! You have made great posts -- we are so glad to welcome you!
Yes, I'll never forget that Magnum scene. I think it says something about my bloodthirstiness that I jumped up and pumped the air with my fist and yelled "Yeahhhhh!" See, this is why I have no problem with Voldy being taken out in a big way....
I am convinced that the shudder and the "No, not that one!" has to refer to Hagrid. I can't imagine who else would evince that reaction, sadly.
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Wizadora - Aug 8, 2006 2:36 pm (#1117 of 1297)
I actually think that Lupin will survive and Hermonie will finally find a better potion than Wolfsbane to help all werewolves.
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Solitaire - Aug 8, 2006 2:37 pm (#1118 of 1297)
Oh, I hope you are right, Wizadora.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Aug 9, 2006 4:23 am (#1119 of 1297)
I have this image of someone (Hermione?) finding a cure for lycanthropy and spiking Greyback's drink. He finds himself cured and an outcast from his fellow werewolves.
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 9, 2006 12:01 pm (#1120 of 1297)
If anyone does that, I doubt if it's going to be Hermione. I think Hermione lucked out with the polyjuice. She got it done because the instructions were good. I don't think she's that talented a potions maker, and we KNOW she's not innovative. If she can't follow directions exactly, she has a meltdown.
I still wish either Molly or Ginny would die, but I think Hagrid one of is the most likely, after reading what came out of New York. I was surprised Jo didn't mention any of the other Weasleys besides Ron there, when she was being questioned.
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Valfunde - Aug 9, 2006 1:59 pm (#1121 of 1297)
University Pre-Health Professions Advisor
Edited by Aug 9, 2006 2:14 pm
For quite a long time now I have felt that Lupin's number is up. I think it would be a very "literary" thing to do to have both Lupin and possibly Pettigrew die in the 7th book. All male characters with a possible "fatherly" connection to Harry have died so far. Lupin and Pettigrew are the last of the Marauders as well and it would be fitting to have Lupin with his buddies again on the other side.
I think that Snape is the character that got the reprieve. I don't think Jo knew exactly how "popular" Snape would become when she structured the plot years ago. I've based this on my instinct and my interpretation of how Jo said some fans will absolutely loathe her decisions on who gets the reprieve or dies. (What fan would loathe Harry getting the reprieve?!) There are tons of Snape "haters" out there (even those of us who can "appreciate him" view him as loathsome)and with DD's death, many will not agree with the reprieve. I honestly think that Harry was never planned to die. If you look at the literary conventions of hero myths and legends, the hero doesn't always die. The hero saves humankind, conquers over "evil" and brings something benefical back to the world. Harry will come close to death, and he might even look like he has died, but he won't.
Oh, something else to add - I tend not to think of Voldemort as counting as one of the characters who will die. I think it's almost a given. Perhaps Voldy gets the Dementors' kiss - a fate worse than death. It would be ironic too and he would be "out of the way" so to speak, but not properly dead, but out of commission forever, which is all we need anyway!
I think Jo's husband's reaction could be explained by the death of Lupin, or as others have said, Hagrid. He could be a goner. (Wow. Just thinking of Hagrid dying has brought tears to my eyes. I too think I will just start crying as soon as I have Book 7 in my hands...)
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legolas returns - Aug 9, 2006 3:46 pm (#1122 of 1297)
There wont be that many people left after the end of the war-so many have already died.
I imagine because the order have lost Dumbledore more of them will die. They seemed to suffer in the Ministry of Magic until Dumbledore arrived and they seemed to be getting nowhere at Hogwarts at the end of HBP.
I would be unconsolable if Lupin died. I would be very upset about any Weasley except Percy. I think it would be difficult for the Death Eaters to kill Hagrid because of his part Giant blood. Mad eye might be next for the chop. The only person I want to die is Voldemort.
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Magic Words - Aug 9, 2006 6:27 pm (#1123 of 1297)
Valfunde, those are some good thoughts on Snape. You have given me hope.
I think I would actually be more upset over Percy dying than, say, Bill or Charlie. Percy doesn't deserve death, he needs to come to his senses and reconcile with his family. He can't do that if he's dead.
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Solitaire - Aug 9, 2006 8:47 pm (#1124 of 1297)
I wouldn't mourn if Snape died. I might, however, forgive him for being so nasty if he were to give his life heroically, so that the Trio or Remus (or someone else worthy) could live.
Solitaire
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Madam Pince - Aug 10, 2006 7:49 am (#1125 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Really, Solitaire? I never would've guessed it!
Magic Words, what if Percy reconciles with his family and does something heroic to save one (or more) of them, and then ends up biting the dust? That's how I'm picturing it. I was wondering if that might have been part of JKR's reference in the recent interview when she was asked about "redemptive qualities" (in reference to Snape and/or Draco) and she replied something along the lines of "Anyone can be redemptive." Made me wonder who else she was thinking of. Could be Percy.
***Waves at legolas returns -- welcome back! I still think fondly of your previous name of Haggis and Irn Bru as one of my favorite Forum names ever!***
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wynnleaf - Aug 10, 2006 9:12 am (#1126 of 1297)
I won't post it all here (because I can't copy and paste it), but if you read the just-released transcript of JKR's interview at the Radio City Music Hall (yes, The Leaky Cauldron now has the transcripts), I think it's pretty clear that she really was attempting to name characters that lived when she answered Harry, Ron and Hermione as characters she'd invite to dinner.
Go to The Leaky Cauldron, News and a Glance and you'll see the 2nd night transcripts listed.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 10, 2006 12:15 pm (#1127 of 1297)
As far as Muggles go I think one of the Creevy brothers might die.
I really like the Snape interpretation Valfunde. Frankly I would loathe to see him live. As a teacher he gives us all a bad name.
Since we know for sure about Dumbledore we will have to see if the Giant Squid shows up in book 7. It wasn't at the funeral. LPO
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Dr Filibuster - Aug 10, 2006 12:32 pm (#1128 of 1297)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
Erm, do you mean Muggleborns LPO?
I know Dennis sneaked out of Hogwarts somehow to join the DA, but surely the teachers would have sussed out a lack of magical powers by now if they were muggles. Lol!
Actually, the Creevys were high on lots of peoples' lists after GoF. They seemed to have quietend down a bit. Were they even mentioned in HBP?
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Madame Pomfrey - Aug 10, 2006 1:36 pm (#1129 of 1297)
I agree Wynnleaf.When the audience was yelling for her to say Hagrid.Thats when she said she knows who lives and dies then says Hagrid anyway.It sounds to me that the trio will live but Hagrid will die.Is that what it seems to everyone else or is it just me?
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Magic Words - Aug 10, 2006 1:58 pm (#1130 of 1297)
It seemed to me like JKR's remark about knowing who dies is in response to Stephen King saying "pick Hagrid."
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 10, 2006 6:18 pm (#1131 of 1297)
Dr. Filibuster, yes I mean Muggle born. Sorry! I don't remember if they were mentioned in HBP. Maybe their purpose is served.
Hagrid ties a lot of things together. Early on his life was impacted by Tom/Voldemort. He knows all about Tom. He was close to Harry's parents and he was Harry's first contact with the Wizarding World. Personally losing Hagrid will be harder than losing Dumbledore. LPO
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Mediwitch - Aug 10, 2006 8:28 pm (#1132 of 1297)
"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
If you follow the alchemical symbolism, (it's daunting, but I've really learned a lot on the alchemy thread!) Hagrid is pretty likely to die. I am expecting it, but with great sadness. I love Hagrid.
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painting sheila - Aug 10, 2006 8:30 pm (#1133 of 1297)
Doing one of the things I love best . . .
What about the Dursley's getting killed. Harry has a couple of months before he is considered "of age". I could see a bunch of DE's coming to the house and trying to get Harry and ending up killing Vernon and Dudley. Maybe Petunia id the one who redeems herself for Harry's sack some how. She has been showing some cracking around the edges as far as showing what she knows about the wizarding world.
I hate to think of losing Hagrid. With DD and Sirius - there still was that hope that their magic was so strong it could save them or bring them back some how. But with Hagrid - I don't see that happening.
I would cringe if Mr. Weasley were killed. He will be front lines now in the battle don't you think?
I want the 7th book so badly but at the same time dread ending it all!
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 10, 2006 8:45 pm (#1134 of 1297)
Hagrid dying would have no impact on me, because I think he was only interesting as Dumbledore's right hand man. With Dumbledore gone, he's lost his compass as a character. He no longer has the motivation he's had for six books. I think Dumbledore was Hagrid's mentor even more than Harry's, and I think Hagrid will be totally bereft without him and not very useful anymore.
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Solitaire - Aug 10, 2006 8:49 pm (#1135 of 1297)
The fact that McGonagall called Hagrid to join her meeting with the Heads of Houses was significant, I think. I suspect Hagrid's status at Hogwarts is about to be raised. Could he be the next Gryffindor Head of House?
Solitaire
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 10, 2006 8:53 pm (#1136 of 1297)
Maybe Hagrid could, but we can't even prove the school will be open, or that a large number of kids will be there.
If he is made head of house, he's lucky the twins are gone. I can't see him keeping much order. Even the Gryffindors know he's a pooor teacher. They just don't want to admit it.
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Solitaire - Aug 10, 2006 9:04 pm (#1137 of 1297)
They are also the only house, I think, who would probably give Hagrid the requisite respect. Our Trio, at any rate, love him, despite his teaching ability ... or lack of it. Given the state of affairs at Hogwarts, I think it is possible--assuming the school opens in the fall--that Hagrid could be made temporary Head of Gryffindor House.
Solitaire
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painting sheila - Aug 10, 2006 9:28 pm (#1138 of 1297)
Doing one of the things I love best . . .
I just read the transcript of RCMH and I think Hagrid definitely dies in Book 7. (sigh) It is upsetting to think about.
And I am excited to find out more about Petunia. Vernon and Dudley get killed by Dementors - Harry is able to save Petunia and whisks her away to the Weasley's house for safe keeping. She some how redeems herself and instead if her providing protection for Harry, Harry provides protection for her.
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Laura W - Aug 10, 2006 11:59 pm (#1139 of 1297)
No, I do not believe the Creevey brothers are mentioned in HBP. That doesn't, of course, mean they will not make an appearance in Book Seven but my feeling is they are not important enough to do so. Merlin knows, Jo has enough characters to explain to us in that final book without dragging in two minor students! (In fact, I have always liked the Creevey boys. I found their innocent enthusiasm and obvious brotherly love refreshing in a series of novels focused - albeit wonderfully - on cynicism, darkness and dysfunctional families.)
I disagree that Hagrid's purpose (value?) in the books is only that of DD's right hand man. He was the one who loved Harry from the very beginning. Jo gave him the honour of rescuing the baby from the ruins of his home (and kissing the infant before surrendering him to the Dursley's - the last kiss Harry was to receive from a caring adult for many years), and the additional honour of being the one to tell Harry about his heritage and prepare him for his first year of school. I think Jo did this to have Hagrid symbolize the unconditional love Harry lost when his parents died. And I have no doubt that Harry - Ron and Hermoine, too - feels the same way towards the half-giant, although the Potter boy has trouble expressing love and affection ... because he had not been shown it in his formative years. Still, look at his reaction when he thought the Death Eaters were going to finish Hagrid off! (HBP, p.561, Raincoast) And once again, Jo gave Hagrid the honour of being the first one Harry tells about Dumbledore's death and of going back to the castle with him.
If Hagrid dies in Book Seven, so continues the pattern of everybody Harry cares about being taken from him. (sob, sob)
I was very surprised when McGonagall invited Hagrid to her office to attend that crucial meeting, though. What qualified him to be present? Nothing, as far as I can see and something just didn't ring true about that. Still doesn't. Hagrid was obviously a really lousy teacher - although a lovely human being - and was thrown out of Hogwarts before graduating, to boot. I find the idea of him being Head of House to be ludicrous.
Laura
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haymoni - Aug 11, 2006 7:26 am (#1140 of 1297)
I don't think you need to be an excellent teacher to be Head of House.
The Trio - and others - will admit that Hagrid isn't a great teacher, but they like and respect him just the same.
I think he would be very understanding - especially to students that feel alone or different.
And you know that nobody would REALLY want to tick him off about anything. Imagine being yelled at by a half-giant!
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Thom Matheson - Aug 11, 2006 7:57 am (#1141 of 1297)
As you all speculate on the fate of Hagrid, what would happen to his brother. I can't see Jo killing Hagrid and leaving Grawp to fend for himself and I don't see how you can avoid any kind of storyline that would separate them. So unless both are killed, I can't see any other way to do it.
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Solitaire - Aug 11, 2006 9:02 am (#1142 of 1297)
Thom, I could see a scenario where both die. Remember that Grawp loves Hagrid and would probably demolish anyone who attempted to hurt him, if he were to see it happen. He also remembers Hermione, and I suspect he might come to her defense.
I wonder, though ... with Aragog gone, the "balance" of things in the Forest is not what it was. Could Grawp die at the "hands" of the spiders?
Solitaire
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Thom Matheson - Aug 11, 2006 11:01 am (#1143 of 1297)
Solitaire, if that is the case then is that the 2 deaths we have been referring to. My gut instinct is no, so if one isn't gone probably also not the other. I agree that both would be more likely then just one of the other.
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Choices - Aug 11, 2006 11:38 am (#1144 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I thought it very fitting that Hagrid was asked to meet with the others in Dumbledore's office (now McGonagall's). Hagrid is a teacher, the gamekeeper and keeper of keys at Hogwarts, but most important, he loved Dumbledore and was loyal to him and Dumbledore loved and trusted Hagrid with his life. Who better to help decide what happened to Dumbledore (his funeral) and the future of Hogwarts?
I think Hagrid would make a good head of house for Gryffindor, but I think the head has to have quarters near the common room to be handy in case of emergencies at night - I can't see Hagrid not being in his hut with Fang, and I definitely can't see him fitting through the entrance hole behind the Fat Lady's picture.
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Deb Zawacki - Aug 11, 2006 3:40 pm (#1145 of 1297)
Hagrid's death would be heart-wrenching for most people because he is such a loveable mutt-- but it would be one of the more noble and honorable of all. Hagrid's death would be a moment of greatness and tenderness and I believe that before he actually dies he may (in his way of "letting things slip" )actually give Harry the gift of some important information. In book 1 Dumbledore tells McG that he would trust Hagrid with his life and I believe that Hagrid would defend Harry to his own death. In a way, I envision it gbeing the one death where Harry actually has a chance to say goodbye and have a final meaningful conversation as opposed to all the other deaths that were instantaneous and unexpected. And I think that it will give Harry the strength and conviction to see everything through.
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 11, 2006 3:46 pm (#1146 of 1297)
I just got back into town and read the RCMH Transcript on Leaky. I had begun to believe that the Trio would survive and now I'm sure of it. I'm glad because I was really really worried about Hermoine. A long time ago during an interview, Jo made a comment in a response to a question about Ron that seemed to suggest she wouldn't kill him. Her words were "like I'd kill Harry's best friend" or something similar.
I do agree with those of you who think Jo's husband's shudder was in response to finding out that Hagrid dies. How devastating for Harry! As for Hagrid being Head of Gryffindor, I think it might work. No, he's not a good teacher but he's brave, courageous, loyal to the Order, and he'd die to save Hogwarts students just as I believe Dumbledore did. That's the mark of a Gryffindor.
I also think that Neville may die. I truly hope not. That would really upset me. Also, I couldn't stand it if Remus died. I adore him. He has suffered almost as much as Harry all his life. His best friends are dead, he's suffered so much discrimination that he can't get a job and can't even afford to buy decent robes. Also, he's living among murderous werewolves risking his life and his sanity for the Order and because Dumbledore asked him. I also believe he would die for Harry. He deserves to live and to have a life with Tonks. Just like Harry deserves to live and have a life with Ginny. I think Harry needs Remus. He would serve as a link to Harry's parents and to Sirius.
As for Snape, frankly...I despise him. I've heard Jo say numerous times that just because someone is working for the Order, or working against dark wizards, that doesn't necessarily make them a good person. She has flat out said that Snape is not a nice man regardless of whose side he is on. I think I mentioned this in my earlier post but having Harry read about his father and Sirius for detention so soon after Sirius' death was incredibly cruel. Harry believed that Snape did it on purpose to torment him and I agree. I hope the (bleeps out swear words) dies! Also, Umbridge is not a dark wizard but she is truly a nasty, evil person. She's a fanatic and that is truly dangerous. Jo says that Umbridge will align herself with whoever is Minister of Magic because she likes the power. Ugh. I hope she goes as well.
I get all worked up thinking about all this. Arrgghh. I'm glad to be back talking about my favorite subject.
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 11, 2006 3:48 pm (#1147 of 1297)
And I think that it will give Harry the strength and conviction to see everything through.
Deb, that's truly a comforting thought. I'll hang on to that!
Lily
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legolas returns - Aug 11, 2006 4:08 pm (#1148 of 1297)
I am far from convinced that Hagrid could be killed that easily because of his Giant blood. If Hagrid dies who will be the Head of Gryffindor.
I am just picturing the scene at the start of school when Hagrid is handing out timetables. He taps the timetable with his pink umbrella. The idea of that cracks me up.
Snape is an ideal candidate for the chop in my opinion.
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nthdavid - Aug 11, 2006 11:14 pm (#1149 of 1297)
"If Hagrid dies who will be the Head of Gryffindor."
Whichever of the Weasley's that ends up teaching DADA.
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Deb Zawacki - Aug 12, 2006 9:09 am (#1150 of 1297)
O Gosh they'll probably bring in Molly to Head Gryffindor and she'll teach cooking or home-economics or something bizarrely mundane.
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Solitaire - Aug 12, 2006 12:16 pm (#1151 of 1297)
I doubt they would bring in Molly to teach, although I could see her and Arthur staying at Hogwarts during the school year. Parents might feel more secure with the Weasley parents at the castle, and Bill and Fleur could hold down the Burrow.
Solitaire
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painting sheila - Aug 12, 2006 8:08 pm (#1152 of 1297)
Doing one of the things I love best . . .
Do we know for sure that Hogwarts will continue in the manner it has so far? The Sorting Hat has been warning about the division in the houses for a few years now. Maybe Hogwarts will cease to exist as we know it.
For those of you in England - do all boarding schools have "houses"?
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Dr Filibuster - Aug 13, 2006 2:51 am (#1153 of 1297)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
Most probably.
I never went to boarding school, just my nearest (not private) primary and secondary school. We still had four houses and house points etc.
Sorry if it's been said before on this thread, but I have a vague recollecton of an interview. It inferred that Hagrid would be in all seven books.
Lots of us thought Hagrid was a gonna before OoP was released. The interview made me change my mind but gave me an uneasy feeling that he may not make it to the end of book seven. Hmm, hopefully he's the reprieve? He was there at the beginning, and he'll be there at the end.
Snape's had it though!
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azi - Aug 13, 2006 4:29 am (#1154 of 1297)
Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
My middle school (also non-private) had 4 houses and house points, but it is very rare to have a house point system in comprehensive schools now. I think most grammar schools did (up to mid 1960/70s? I wasn't alive then so not sure when grammar schools were completely scrapped).
I'm afraid I don't know anyone who went to boarding/private schools! I agree with Dr Filibuster though. It's likely private schools will stick to traditional ways like that.
I wouldn't mind if Hagrid died. Sometimes, the way he's so relaxed about being hit by spells and it 'taking more than that to kill him' makes me think it'll happen just to prove nobody's invincible.
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legolas returns - Aug 13, 2006 8:47 am (#1155 of 1297)
We had houses at my comprehensive and the only time that they really counted was for sporting events.
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 13, 2006 10:54 am (#1156 of 1297)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
Legolas Returns:
Hagrid can't possibly become head of Gryffindor. What if he needs to get through the portrait hole to address the students?!
My comprehensive sounds like yours, although in my first year or two they gave out points (credits and debits, in fact) for class work too. They had a sort of grammar school-type streaming of classes, even though it wasn't a private school.
Actually I think Bill might be a good candidate for head of house, though that might mess up is honeymoon!
Back on topic, one of the Weasleys has GOT to snuff it! Six books, three near misses and there's nine of them! I reckon it could be Ron or Ginny: Harry needs to lose a peer, rather than the various parental figures he's lost so far (traumatized as he was by Cedric's death I don't think he ever saw himself as equal to Cedric, who was an older student that he didn't know that well before the Triwizard Tournament).
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Solitaire - Aug 13, 2006 11:10 am (#1157 of 1297)
It inferred that Hagrid would be in all seven books.
Well, unfortunately, he can be in all seven books and still die ... in book 7.
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painting sheila - Aug 13, 2006 7:45 pm (#1158 of 1297)
Doing one of the things I love best . . .
Of the Weasley's. I think Percy will get it. He will try and redeem himself at the last minute and be able to somehow let his mother know he is sorry. She will get a chance to tell him she loves him and then he is dead.
Bill has already had a mishap that disfigured him. He has got to be really good at curse breaking since he does it for the goblin's so I think he will be a bigger part in book 7 - but not die.
Ginny will have Harry's back and Hermione will save Ron some how. Ron will not die - but have a big grow up moment when Hermione saves him.
Mr. Weasley will die. Mrs. Weasley will be heartbroken, but will be soothed by Harry and Ginny.
Could Mrs. Weasley be headmistress of Griffendor? Do you have to be a teacher?
Hagrid is gone.
Snape is a good guy - but is still alone at the end of the book. He will not let go of any of his grudges but will not be SO atagonistic towards Harry. He will leave Hogwarts and be a loner the rest of his life.
Neville will truley shine. He will make his gran proud and go on to teach herbology at Hogwarts - but he will not die.
I wonder if Neville's parents will have a moment of clarity somehow in book 7. Just to give Neville some peace.
. . . now that I written all of that . . I amnot so sure any more about anyone but Percy. I think he definitely dies.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 13, 2006 7:53 pm (#1159 of 1297)
Laura in HBP p. 628 McGonagall says to Hagrid "Professor Dumbledore always valued your views, ... and so do I." I think he was invited because of that and he is a member of the Order. I don't think Slughorn, Sprout and Flitwick are. It is imperative that the Order pull themselves together.
I agree. I think at least one Weasley will get it. I hope it is Percy.
I adore Neville. But he has always been on the edge of the Trio. He may have to make a huge sacrifice. LPO
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painting sheila - Aug 13, 2006 8:14 pm (#1160 of 1297)
Doing one of the things I love best . . .
Neville seems to carry a lot of guilt - never being able to please his Gran - feeling embarrassed by his parents - holding onto silly gum wrappers because his mother gave them to him . . . .
I can see him boiling over and stepping up to purge it all some how.
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Madam Pince - Aug 13, 2006 9:03 pm (#1161 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Now wouldn't that just be too ironic? Neville, who was really supposed to be "The One" but got pushed out of position by Harry simply because Voldemort mistakenly "marked" Harry, and then Harry ends up living and defeating Voldemort, while Neville gets the axe? Seems unfair, somehow... I will be sad if that happens.
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Solitaire - Aug 13, 2006 11:11 pm (#1162 of 1297)
Neville, who was really supposed to be "The One" but got pushed out of position by Harry
Well, Harry didn't exactly "push" anyone out of position. He didn't do anything at all. Voldemort was the one who pushed Neville out of position--if he was ever in position--by choosing Harry instead.
Solitaire
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Laura W - Aug 14, 2006 1:10 am (#1163 of 1297)
"Laura in HBP p. 628 McGonagall says to Hagrid "Professor Dumbledore always valued your views, ... and so do I." I think he was invited because of that and he is a member of the Order. I don't think Slughorn, Sprout and Flitwick are. It is imperative that the Order pull themselves together."
Page 628? My book doesn't have a page ... oh yeah, different publisher. Found it on p.586 (Raincoast, hard cover).
I see that McGonagall said that but the whole purpose of the meeting was to decide if the school should be reopened the next year, LPO. The Order and the work of the Order had nothing to do with this particular gathering in Dumbledore's former office. As you said, however, Minerva does say she values Hagrid's opinion and I guess that is why he was invited to attend. The only thing she asked him about was whether he thought the school should remain open.
Once again, I see this as another example of Jo's affection for and regard for Hagrid. (Can you imagine how difficult it will be for her if she has to kill him off? I can just see her crying as she writes that part. Seriously.)
Laura
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Chemyst - Aug 14, 2006 4:55 am (#1164 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
If "whole purpose of the meeting was to decide if the school should be reopened the next year," then probably that hard-to-define position of Keeper of the Keys justifies Hagrid's spot at the meeting.
I'm still hoping Grawp takes the hit for Hagrid. Hagrid's grief over his brother would be nearly as tragic as his own death.
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 14, 2006 11:01 am (#1165 of 1297)
If they were deciding whether or not the school should reopen, then the whole staff should have been there, but that was not their decision to make anyway. It was the school board's decision. I don't think the meeting is any indication of who might die.
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 14, 2006 12:04 pm (#1166 of 1297)
Now wouldn't that just be too ironic? Neville, who was really supposed to be "The One" but got pushed out of position by Harry simply because Voldemort mistakenly "marked" Harry,
Madam Pince - Hello again! I read in the "Quotes" section somewhere that Jo said that Harry truly is the Chosen One. She said that though Neville has his own particular skills and abilities he probably wouldn't have survived all of Voldemort's attempts to murder him like Harry has. She said Harry has the qualities required to survive the annual murder attempts and to make it to the final battle. I'm paraphrasing so don't hold Jo to these exact words. I will be happy to find where I read that if you or any one else is interested.
I'm with you though, I would be sad if Neville dies simply because he's grown so much and has a bit more to him than his Gran thinks he does. Though, she was bragging about that fact that he was with Harry at the Dept. of Mysteries battle.
Lily
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Madam Pince - Aug 14, 2006 12:38 pm (#1167 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Yes, Solitaire, of course you're right and that is what I meant -- I just expressed myself badly. Harry didn't do anything to "push" Neville -- it was all Voldemort's "marking." In fact, as Lily says, it may be that Harry was really The Chosen One anyway. (I'm still extremely fuzzy on that whole explanation Dumbledore gave...)
In fact, let's forget I ever even posted what I did -- it was late at night and I should've kept my mouth shut! Let's just leave it that I'll be bummed if Neville dies...
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Laura W - Aug 14, 2006 3:59 pm (#1168 of 1297)
If we look again at the whole conversation that took place in the office in chapter The Phoenix Lament once the Heads arrive, we see that McGonagall starts it with, "I want to talk to you about what happens to Hogwarts before he (the Minister) gets here."
And that is what they talk about. Sprout says if only one pupil wants to be taught, the school should remain open; Slughorn says that no parent would send their child to Hogwarts now; Minerva seems to be leaning towards closing the school and thinks DD might too; Flitwick says that the governors should be consulted; and Hagrid's answer is all over the place. The new Headmistress goes with Flitwick's answer. Then Harry brings up the issue of Dumbledore's funeral and allowing the students to attend. Nothing about the Order or Voldemort or the war; just internal school business.
I always thought of Hagrid in terms of groundskeeper (and lovely guy) but kind of forgot about that "Keeper of the Keys" thing, Chemyst. I guess that key role he fulfills is why - along with the fact that Minerva values his opinion on all things - he would be included in a discussion about whether Hogwarts should reopen next year.
(Hee, hee. A funny thought suddenly occurred to me. If Filch knew Hagrid was being consulted on this matter, he would undoubtedly be very miffed that he wasn't as well. ... Forget I said that.)
Laura
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 14, 2006 5:06 pm (#1169 of 1297)
Madam Pince - Yes I'm with you on Dumbledore's explanation. I've read and re-read looking for clues. I go back and forth between Dumbledore saying that the prophecy is not inevitable if Voldemort and Harry would both walk away (my interpretation here) and then Harry asking that because Voldemort won't walk away then one of them will have to kill the other in the end. Dumbledore answers yes to that question. So does that mean for sure that one of them has to die as in cease to exist or can something else happen? I'm sure there is a thread somewhere on the whole prophecy thing. I'm probably reading far too much into it. I'm good at thinking about Harry and avoiding thinking about work projects. .
PS - Don't worry about what you said. NEVER keep your mouth shut! Without all of our chatter there would be no forums. Just think, no where to discuss Harry Potter! It's too grim to contemplate...
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 14, 2006 8:08 pm (#1170 of 1297)
Laura I agree It would be horrible for Jo to write about Hagrid's death. I don't recall the mention of any other teachers during the Death Eaters attack. I think McGonagall consulted with who was there. LPO
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Lana - Aug 15, 2006 10:55 am (#1171 of 1297)
Okay, so we all pretty much agree that if Hagrid dies we will be devastated right? But remember that Jo herself said that she WILL be killing off two characters in the seventh book (and of course Voldemort will be one of those because she couldn't write a 7 book series about good conquering evil if in the end evil prevails).. so maybe Hagrid will be the other character she told us would die. She also said that readers will be sad over who she chooses to die because we care about him/her.
I suppose I have a feeling Ron could be that other character. He is in fact the person who is closest to Harry and everyone else Harry loves or cares for is dead.
Maybe I'm just hoping it is Hagrid because he is much much older than Harry and the others so obviously I'd prefer my beloved Hagrid to die over Harry. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer Lucious to die anyday, but I'm just saying what I think is possible.
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haymoni - Aug 15, 2006 11:38 am (#1172 of 1297)
She said that she will be killing two MORE characters - there will be others besides these 2.
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legolas returns - Aug 15, 2006 1:13 pm (#1173 of 1297)
THere were quite a lot of deaths book 6. The total number isnt mentioned but there seems to be loads. Every few days there seemed to be death and injury related to characters that had played a role in previous books or have been mentioned in passing. There wont be that many people left intact at the end of book 7. I am taking JKRs comment as 2 main characters on the good side that are fundamental to the story.
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painting sheila - Aug 17, 2006 8:37 pm (#1174 of 1297)
Doing one of the things I love best . . .
I think someone in the Weasley family has to die - not "has to" but they have been spared so far.
I would like it to be Percy and not Ron - could we start a petition!!??
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 17, 2006 8:52 pm (#1175 of 1297)
Good idea Sheila. I doubt it would work though. I hope references to Ron dying are red herrings. The Chess game in PS/SS is pretty powerful. Over all Ron has not contributed as much as Hermione. He is still "finding himself." I hope he won't have to contribute the greatest sacrifice. LPO
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The One - Aug 17, 2006 11:21 pm (#1176 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Somehow I doubt that Percy will die, as it will please so many readers.
The death of a human is not supposed to be a reason for celebration, not even if the human in question was a git.
And Percy's problem is exactly that, he is a git. e is not really evil.
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painting sheila - Aug 17, 2006 11:27 pm (#1177 of 1297)
Doing one of the things I love best . . .
I wouldn't really celebrate - just be less sad.
I can see him redeeming himself and making a sacrifice to try and mend all the hurt he has caused.
In Chamber of Secrets, the comment is made that he wants to be Minister of Magic someday. He may be more power hungry than we all realize.
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haymoni - Aug 18, 2006 5:54 am (#1178 of 1297)
Didn't the actor that plays Percy ask Jo about his character after OotP came out?
I thought there was something out there about her telling him not to worry.
I don't know about Percy dying, but the question was about Percy being a jerk.
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Steve Newton - Aug 18, 2006 6:06 am (#1179 of 1297)
Librarian
Right now I am seeing no redemption for Percy. Being forced, by Scrimgeour, to visit over Christmas would have been a perfect time to mend fences without seeming to give in. He did not take the opportunity and was barely civil to Molly. I think that he has thrown in his lot totally with the Ministry and will not rejoin his family. He may even be of substantial help to the Voldemort faction.
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 18, 2006 11:19 am (#1180 of 1297)
Dumbledore's death may shock Percy into reevaluating his priorities.
He did have a certain respect for Dumbledore's power, even if he didn't believe him about Voldemort. But Percy had a lot of company in that respect.
If so, he might not die.
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 18, 2006 12:53 pm (#1181 of 1297)
I remember reading an interview that Jo gave where she was asked if Percy was under the Imperious Curse and that was why he was such a git to his family and to Harry. Her response was something like "unfortunately not." He's caught up in a power trip. I hope he does redeem himself. I don't think he will die however. I think it will be Charlie, one of the twins, or Molly or Arthur. Mind you, I love all those characters, even Charlie. He's had a small part in the books but still...he's a Weasley!
Speaking of redeeming himself, in my mind the only way Snape can do that is if he dies saving Harry, Ron, or Hermoine. He is probably in the Order but that doesn't make him good. He's been horrendous to Harry, Neville, and also to Hermoine on occasion. Not to mention Gryffindors in general. Jo said she made him abusive because as uncomfortable as it is for parents to hear, there are abusive teachers in the world. I think her plan to redeem him is to have him die saving one of the Trio.
As you can see, I'm still very angry at his treatment of Harry. I don't wish death on him but I can't see how else he can redeem himself.
Lily
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 18, 2006 5:00 pm (#1182 of 1297)
Lily I agree wholeheartedly. No matter what he does or is it does not take away the fact he is very cruel. Killing Dumbledore, even if it was planned, is unforgivable. There are some orders one should not carry out. LPO
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Good Evans - Aug 19, 2006 8:26 am (#1183 of 1297)
Practically perfect in every way
Percy may not be the nicest character, but I dont think he "deserves" to die nor that it would be a cause for celebration!!
I agree that a weasley will "bite the dust" - they are central to Harry's world, but unless he has a major coming back in to the fold early in the book, I am not clear that bumping off Perce will be anything other than a cop out - he is now a very minor background character, Fleur and Bill have become more prominent, yet I feel that they are still "too background" to be a major weasley death. A Twin, a Parent, Ron (hope not) or Ginny are much more in the frame due to their prominence and symbolic meanings in harry life.
just my two knuts !
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wynnleaf - Aug 19, 2006 2:53 pm (#1184 of 1297)
This belongs I suppose on the Snape thread, but I don't quite see how being a sarcastic, insulting, and unfair teacher can only be redeemed by death.
If Snape is loyal, than he's already done a huge amount of sacrifice for the cause. I think that what he's already done (if he's loyal) is quite enough to redeem himself.
What I think is really going on is that many readers dislike the character so much that they don't think they can reconcile themselves to the notion that he'd be loyal. So the only way to be satisfied with a loyal Snape, is to have a dead Snape.
JKR has managed without trying at all, to convince a large number of readers that Snape is loyal. Perhaps if she actually tries to convince the rest of the readers of his worthiness in book 7, she'll convince most of the rest of the readers to the point that people won't feel he has to be dead in order for them to be satisfied with his not being evil.
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Solitaire - Aug 20, 2006 11:04 am (#1185 of 1297)
Slughorn says that no parent would send their child to Hogwarts now
He also says, "Personally, I don't think we are in more danger at Hogwarts than we are anywhere else, but you can't expect mothers to think like that ..." This makes me think he will probably stay.
lily.phoenixfire: So does that mean for sure that one of them has to die as in cease to exist or can something else happen?
Alas, this is another one of those $64 million questions! Jo has been very cagey when asked about the meaning of the prophecy. We will have to wait for book 7. And yes, there is (or was) a prophecy thread.
Lily and LPO, I agree that Snape is a mean, nasty, rotten, miserable excuse for a human being, whatever his loyalties are. His behavior to Harry and several others has been despicable. If he is truly Dumbledore's man and on the side of good, I think he will have a lot of explaining to do in the end. I don't think a simple "I was only following orders" will suffice.
Solitaire
Edit: Lily, here is a link to the Prophecy II thread. It has not had a post in over a year, but it still appears to be active. It's in the Potter-pourri Group Section Folder.
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 20, 2006 1:51 pm (#1186 of 1297)
wynnleaf - Thanks for you comments! Snape is a lucky man. He has a huge fan base. You make some good points, (and you're right, this probably does belong on the Snape thread,) but in my own little humble opinion his loyalty and sacrifice do not excuse abusive behavior to students. It's his apparent joy in inflicting mental cruelty onto Harry and other underage students that disturbs me. Jo said that he is not a nice person and was surprised by his popularity. That shows her incredible skill at character development! I am convinced he is working for the Order, and not Voldemort, but that doesn't make me feel any better about him. Umbridge is supposedly not working for Voldemort either but she's evil with a big E!
Solitaire
Well said Solitaire! Thanks for the Prophecy II thread link. Jo said she and Trelawney worded the prophecy very carefully. To drive us all crazy no doubt!
Good Evans - I agree with you. A major Weasley is history. Probably more than one. I like all of them. Percy is irritating and I want to smack his power hungry little face sometimes but I don't want him to die. I am so worried about Fred and George. I also think Molly or Arthur will die. For some reason, I'm convinced Ginny is okay. I think Jo wants Harry and Ginny to end up getting married so I don't think she'll kill her. I could be wrong of course and if I am, I'll sob my heart out.
*Lily with a sheepish grin on her face will now slink off to the Snape thread and apologizes to everyone for going off topic.**
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legolas returns - Aug 20, 2006 1:59 pm (#1187 of 1297)
I would think that the students will be more in danger if Harry goes back to school now that Dumbledore is gone. I mean this in terms of Voldemort would be much more likely to try and find a way to get to Harry as the one he feared most is gone. More students are likely to get caught in the crossfire.
Edit-I know it was supposed to be impossible to break into Hogwarts but Sirius did it and then there was the cabinet incident.
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Choices - Aug 20, 2006 5:02 pm (#1188 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Sirius entered as a dog - that makes a big difference. Dementors don't seem to notice dogs.
On another thread we discussed the possibility that inside the cabinet is sort of like "limbo" - it is not really Hogwarts, so one could apparated from inside it. The problem arises when the apparator hits Hogwart's space - perhaps that is why Montague ended up in a bathroom, badly confused.
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Magic Words - Aug 22, 2006 4:11 pm (#1189 of 1297)
If Snape is loyal, than he's already done a huge amount of sacrifice for the cause. I think that what he's already done (if he's loyal) is quite enough to redeem himself.
What I think is really going on is that many readers dislike the character so much that they don't think they can reconcile themselves to the notion that he'd be loyal. So the only way to be satisfied with a loyal Snape, is to have a dead Snape.
Very astute, Wynnleaf, as usual. Shade-of-gray characters like Snape are so much easier to classify once they've given their lives for one cause or another. Not to mention self-sacrifice seems to go a long way toward cancelling past misbehaviours. Personally I'd like to see him live, but I feel that your point would also apply to characters within JKR's world--they may see proof of his loyalty, but most will never be able to forgive him. Much neater if he dies.
I still think Ron is safe, chess game notwithstanding, because I'm fairly confident that Ron as the "black knight" foreshadowed Sirius's death and Hermione sending Harry on alone from the potions puzzle foreshadowed Dumbledore's death.
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 23, 2006 11:11 am (#1190 of 1297)
but I feel that your point would also apply to characters within JKR's world--they may see proof of his loyalty, but most will never be able to forgive him. Much neater if he dies.I still think Ron is safe, chess game notwithstanding, because I'm fairly confident that Ron as the "black knight" foreshadowed Sirius's death and Hermione sending Harry on alone from the potions puzzle foreshadowed Dumbledore's death>
Magic Words - I like what you said about the characters within JKR's world. That is nicely put. I am with them on this one. I feel he is loyal but cannot forgive his abusive behavior.>
I think your points about Ron's black knight and Hermoine sending Harry on alone and what they symbolized is very good. That didn't occur to me.
I too feel Ron is safe and I also feel Harry and Hermoine are too. They are the only ones I feel completely sure of at this point however.
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 23, 2006 9:58 pm (#1191 of 1297)
Percy now has a birthday on Jo's site, so if you are a believer in the theory that people without birthdays die, you can cross him off your list.
I do not believe that theory myself, personally, although I think it's amusing, but I don't think Percy will die either, so that puts me in the middle of the road.
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Deb Zawacki - Aug 26, 2006 5:06 pm (#1192 of 1297)
Well, if someone Harry cares about has to die (which is likely) then I hope it isn't some quick AVKAD-ZAP in the field. I hope that or once Harry gets to say a proper goodbye and actually be there in the moment with the person. Seems like all the deaths Harry has witnesses have been quick zaps without any sort of reconciliation or grief process involved. Just a couple of wand waves and that's that.
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Solitaire - Aug 26, 2006 7:50 pm (#1193 of 1297)
what he's already done (if he's loyal) is quite enough to redeem himself.
Snape may very well have done enough to redeem himself. The problem with the things he has done--as we see from his own account in "Spinner's End"--is that just about everything he has done is open to more than one interpretation.
We already know that Dumbledore's trust in Snape did nothing to convince Harry. Would the faith of Remus or Arthur do it? I don't think so. To satisfy a person convinced that Snape is evil--Harry, for example--Snape is going to have to do something that can only be interpreted as completely intended to defeat Voldemort--by everyone who looks at it. JM2K, of course ...
Seems like all the deaths Harry has witnesses have been quick zaps without any sort of reconciliation or grief process involved. Just a couple of wand waves and that's that.
Unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast with an AK.
Solitaire
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wynnleaf - Aug 26, 2006 8:04 pm (#1194 of 1297)
We already know that Dumbledore's trust in Snape did nothing to convince Harry. Would the faith of Remus or Arthur do it? I don't think so. To satisfy a person convinced that Snape is evil--Harry, for example--Snape is going to have to do something that can only be interpreted as completely intended to defeat Voldemort--by everyone who looks at it.
Maybe not. At this point, we (and Harry) still don't know why DD trusted him. It could be that finding that out will be all the proof we need, just as it was all the proof DD needed. It all depends on the "why."
Thing is, if JKR shows us that his character is truly loyal, then all the stuff he said at Spinners End pretty much automatically becomes something any loyal spy would say to convince Bella, and ceases to have much importance.
Besides that, "proof" in a book is a funny thing. We believe Harry has really seen LV at the end of GOF because we got to "see" the scene right along with him. The other characters didn't get to see it; they had to rely on Harry's veracity. We had proof. They didn't. Similar things can happen with any of the pending mysteries in Book 7. In addition, it's possible JKR can use a different point of view in which we readers can be eyewitnesses to events that not even Harry can see. So we can get proofs that even Harry won't have. In that way, it would be possible for JKR to convince the reader, without convincing Harry. Not that I think she'd do that -- but it is possible.
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Solitaire - Aug 26, 2006 8:09 pm (#1195 of 1297)
The trick will be finding out what that proof is. Unless Snape tells, who will know now?
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Thom Matheson - Aug 27, 2006 2:04 pm (#1196 of 1297)
The more and more that we discuss this stuff, the more I am convinced that Dumbledore has left a trail of memories for Harry through the pensieve. Whether there are little bottles, or already deposits in the basin I just think that this is key.
Dumbledore must know that Harry doesn't have the first clue as to where to begin looking for Horcruxes, or how to beat the curses around them. Also, the Snape issue must be resolved for Harry to get through this and the memory for that could be available as well. Dumbledore would know this. I think that Snape will prove important to the finale, either good or bad.
I know I sound like a broken record but between the Pensieve and the Portrait Dumbledore must have planned for this in order to continue assist Harry.
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wynnleaf - Aug 27, 2006 3:04 pm (#1197 of 1297)
Well, I think we can be fairly certain JKR is planning to provide these answers, and hopefully she'll be giving them to Harry as well as the readers. So whether it's pensieve memories or other devices, I think the "proofs" that satisfied DD about Snape, horcrux information, etc. is going to come out, even if we don't know how right now.
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Magic Words - Aug 27, 2006 4:30 pm (#1198 of 1297)
What I'd like to see, which would fill all these requirements, is Snape giving Harry anonymous information that leads him to a couple Horcruxes. That way Harry can go on hating Snape through most of the book, but when they finally confront each other and Harry realizes it's Snape helping him, he'll suddenly have proof of his own. (One of the reasons I can see this happening is that there's already a perfect wrong theory for who might be passing the info--R.A.B.)
Dumbledore may have left Harry a couple memories, but my gut impression with the trail of memories theory is that it's a little too much of a cop-out. Why would JKR hand Harry all this information in a silver basin when she can make him get it the hard way?
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The One - Aug 28, 2006 9:14 am (#1199 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Magic Words, that is my thoughts also.
Dumbledore might of course have left something that will get Harry started, but except from that, Harry will have to carry on without his mentors help. Otherwise, what would be the point of killing Dumbledore?
And if Snape is on the good side, the whole plot would have served to get a spy close to Voldemort, and as everyone belives Snape to be a traitor, no one will belive his information anyway. So his only option is to pass his information on in a way such that Harry does not realize where the info comes from.
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haymoni - Aug 28, 2006 9:31 am (#1200 of 1297)
Learning Snape's Patronus was a big deal, wasn't it?
What if he sends Harry a message via the Order's method?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I doubt they would bring in Molly to teach, although I could see her and Arthur staying at Hogwarts during the school year. Parents might feel more secure with the Weasley parents at the castle, and Bill and Fleur could hold down the Burrow.
Solitaire
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painting sheila - Aug 12, 2006 8:08 pm (#1152 of 1297)
Doing one of the things I love best . . .
Do we know for sure that Hogwarts will continue in the manner it has so far? The Sorting Hat has been warning about the division in the houses for a few years now. Maybe Hogwarts will cease to exist as we know it.
For those of you in England - do all boarding schools have "houses"?
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Dr Filibuster - Aug 13, 2006 2:51 am (#1153 of 1297)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
Most probably.
I never went to boarding school, just my nearest (not private) primary and secondary school. We still had four houses and house points etc.
Sorry if it's been said before on this thread, but I have a vague recollecton of an interview. It inferred that Hagrid would be in all seven books.
Lots of us thought Hagrid was a gonna before OoP was released. The interview made me change my mind but gave me an uneasy feeling that he may not make it to the end of book seven. Hmm, hopefully he's the reprieve? He was there at the beginning, and he'll be there at the end.
Snape's had it though!
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azi - Aug 13, 2006 4:29 am (#1154 of 1297)
Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
My middle school (also non-private) had 4 houses and house points, but it is very rare to have a house point system in comprehensive schools now. I think most grammar schools did (up to mid 1960/70s? I wasn't alive then so not sure when grammar schools were completely scrapped).
I'm afraid I don't know anyone who went to boarding/private schools! I agree with Dr Filibuster though. It's likely private schools will stick to traditional ways like that.
I wouldn't mind if Hagrid died. Sometimes, the way he's so relaxed about being hit by spells and it 'taking more than that to kill him' makes me think it'll happen just to prove nobody's invincible.
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legolas returns - Aug 13, 2006 8:47 am (#1155 of 1297)
We had houses at my comprehensive and the only time that they really counted was for sporting events.
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 13, 2006 10:54 am (#1156 of 1297)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
Legolas Returns:
Hagrid can't possibly become head of Gryffindor. What if he needs to get through the portrait hole to address the students?!
My comprehensive sounds like yours, although in my first year or two they gave out points (credits and debits, in fact) for class work too. They had a sort of grammar school-type streaming of classes, even though it wasn't a private school.
Actually I think Bill might be a good candidate for head of house, though that might mess up is honeymoon!
Back on topic, one of the Weasleys has GOT to snuff it! Six books, three near misses and there's nine of them! I reckon it could be Ron or Ginny: Harry needs to lose a peer, rather than the various parental figures he's lost so far (traumatized as he was by Cedric's death I don't think he ever saw himself as equal to Cedric, who was an older student that he didn't know that well before the Triwizard Tournament).
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Solitaire - Aug 13, 2006 11:10 am (#1157 of 1297)
It inferred that Hagrid would be in all seven books.
Well, unfortunately, he can be in all seven books and still die ... in book 7.
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painting sheila - Aug 13, 2006 7:45 pm (#1158 of 1297)
Doing one of the things I love best . . .
Of the Weasley's. I think Percy will get it. He will try and redeem himself at the last minute and be able to somehow let his mother know he is sorry. She will get a chance to tell him she loves him and then he is dead.
Bill has already had a mishap that disfigured him. He has got to be really good at curse breaking since he does it for the goblin's so I think he will be a bigger part in book 7 - but not die.
Ginny will have Harry's back and Hermione will save Ron some how. Ron will not die - but have a big grow up moment when Hermione saves him.
Mr. Weasley will die. Mrs. Weasley will be heartbroken, but will be soothed by Harry and Ginny.
Could Mrs. Weasley be headmistress of Griffendor? Do you have to be a teacher?
Hagrid is gone.
Snape is a good guy - but is still alone at the end of the book. He will not let go of any of his grudges but will not be SO atagonistic towards Harry. He will leave Hogwarts and be a loner the rest of his life.
Neville will truley shine. He will make his gran proud and go on to teach herbology at Hogwarts - but he will not die.
I wonder if Neville's parents will have a moment of clarity somehow in book 7. Just to give Neville some peace.
. . . now that I written all of that . . I amnot so sure any more about anyone but Percy. I think he definitely dies.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 13, 2006 7:53 pm (#1159 of 1297)
Laura in HBP p. 628 McGonagall says to Hagrid "Professor Dumbledore always valued your views, ... and so do I." I think he was invited because of that and he is a member of the Order. I don't think Slughorn, Sprout and Flitwick are. It is imperative that the Order pull themselves together.
I agree. I think at least one Weasley will get it. I hope it is Percy.
I adore Neville. But he has always been on the edge of the Trio. He may have to make a huge sacrifice. LPO
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painting sheila - Aug 13, 2006 8:14 pm (#1160 of 1297)
Doing one of the things I love best . . .
Neville seems to carry a lot of guilt - never being able to please his Gran - feeling embarrassed by his parents - holding onto silly gum wrappers because his mother gave them to him . . . .
I can see him boiling over and stepping up to purge it all some how.
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Madam Pince - Aug 13, 2006 9:03 pm (#1161 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Now wouldn't that just be too ironic? Neville, who was really supposed to be "The One" but got pushed out of position by Harry simply because Voldemort mistakenly "marked" Harry, and then Harry ends up living and defeating Voldemort, while Neville gets the axe? Seems unfair, somehow... I will be sad if that happens.
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Solitaire - Aug 13, 2006 11:11 pm (#1162 of 1297)
Neville, who was really supposed to be "The One" but got pushed out of position by Harry
Well, Harry didn't exactly "push" anyone out of position. He didn't do anything at all. Voldemort was the one who pushed Neville out of position--if he was ever in position--by choosing Harry instead.
Solitaire
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Laura W - Aug 14, 2006 1:10 am (#1163 of 1297)
"Laura in HBP p. 628 McGonagall says to Hagrid "Professor Dumbledore always valued your views, ... and so do I." I think he was invited because of that and he is a member of the Order. I don't think Slughorn, Sprout and Flitwick are. It is imperative that the Order pull themselves together."
Page 628? My book doesn't have a page ... oh yeah, different publisher. Found it on p.586 (Raincoast, hard cover).
I see that McGonagall said that but the whole purpose of the meeting was to decide if the school should be reopened the next year, LPO. The Order and the work of the Order had nothing to do with this particular gathering in Dumbledore's former office. As you said, however, Minerva does say she values Hagrid's opinion and I guess that is why he was invited to attend. The only thing she asked him about was whether he thought the school should remain open.
Once again, I see this as another example of Jo's affection for and regard for Hagrid. (Can you imagine how difficult it will be for her if she has to kill him off? I can just see her crying as she writes that part. Seriously.)
Laura
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Chemyst - Aug 14, 2006 4:55 am (#1164 of 1297)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
If "whole purpose of the meeting was to decide if the school should be reopened the next year," then probably that hard-to-define position of Keeper of the Keys justifies Hagrid's spot at the meeting.
I'm still hoping Grawp takes the hit for Hagrid. Hagrid's grief over his brother would be nearly as tragic as his own death.
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 14, 2006 11:01 am (#1165 of 1297)
If they were deciding whether or not the school should reopen, then the whole staff should have been there, but that was not their decision to make anyway. It was the school board's decision. I don't think the meeting is any indication of who might die.
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 14, 2006 12:04 pm (#1166 of 1297)
Now wouldn't that just be too ironic? Neville, who was really supposed to be "The One" but got pushed out of position by Harry simply because Voldemort mistakenly "marked" Harry,
Madam Pince - Hello again! I read in the "Quotes" section somewhere that Jo said that Harry truly is the Chosen One. She said that though Neville has his own particular skills and abilities he probably wouldn't have survived all of Voldemort's attempts to murder him like Harry has. She said Harry has the qualities required to survive the annual murder attempts and to make it to the final battle. I'm paraphrasing so don't hold Jo to these exact words. I will be happy to find where I read that if you or any one else is interested.
I'm with you though, I would be sad if Neville dies simply because he's grown so much and has a bit more to him than his Gran thinks he does. Though, she was bragging about that fact that he was with Harry at the Dept. of Mysteries battle.
Lily
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Madam Pince - Aug 14, 2006 12:38 pm (#1167 of 1297)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Yes, Solitaire, of course you're right and that is what I meant -- I just expressed myself badly. Harry didn't do anything to "push" Neville -- it was all Voldemort's "marking." In fact, as Lily says, it may be that Harry was really The Chosen One anyway. (I'm still extremely fuzzy on that whole explanation Dumbledore gave...)
In fact, let's forget I ever even posted what I did -- it was late at night and I should've kept my mouth shut! Let's just leave it that I'll be bummed if Neville dies...
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Laura W - Aug 14, 2006 3:59 pm (#1168 of 1297)
If we look again at the whole conversation that took place in the office in chapter The Phoenix Lament once the Heads arrive, we see that McGonagall starts it with, "I want to talk to you about what happens to Hogwarts before he (the Minister) gets here."
And that is what they talk about. Sprout says if only one pupil wants to be taught, the school should remain open; Slughorn says that no parent would send their child to Hogwarts now; Minerva seems to be leaning towards closing the school and thinks DD might too; Flitwick says that the governors should be consulted; and Hagrid's answer is all over the place. The new Headmistress goes with Flitwick's answer. Then Harry brings up the issue of Dumbledore's funeral and allowing the students to attend. Nothing about the Order or Voldemort or the war; just internal school business.
I always thought of Hagrid in terms of groundskeeper (and lovely guy) but kind of forgot about that "Keeper of the Keys" thing, Chemyst. I guess that key role he fulfills is why - along with the fact that Minerva values his opinion on all things - he would be included in a discussion about whether Hogwarts should reopen next year.
(Hee, hee. A funny thought suddenly occurred to me. If Filch knew Hagrid was being consulted on this matter, he would undoubtedly be very miffed that he wasn't as well. ... Forget I said that.)
Laura
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 14, 2006 5:06 pm (#1169 of 1297)
Madam Pince - Yes I'm with you on Dumbledore's explanation. I've read and re-read looking for clues. I go back and forth between Dumbledore saying that the prophecy is not inevitable if Voldemort and Harry would both walk away (my interpretation here) and then Harry asking that because Voldemort won't walk away then one of them will have to kill the other in the end. Dumbledore answers yes to that question. So does that mean for sure that one of them has to die as in cease to exist or can something else happen? I'm sure there is a thread somewhere on the whole prophecy thing. I'm probably reading far too much into it. I'm good at thinking about Harry and avoiding thinking about work projects. .
PS - Don't worry about what you said. NEVER keep your mouth shut! Without all of our chatter there would be no forums. Just think, no where to discuss Harry Potter! It's too grim to contemplate...
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 14, 2006 8:08 pm (#1170 of 1297)
Laura I agree It would be horrible for Jo to write about Hagrid's death. I don't recall the mention of any other teachers during the Death Eaters attack. I think McGonagall consulted with who was there. LPO
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Lana - Aug 15, 2006 10:55 am (#1171 of 1297)
Okay, so we all pretty much agree that if Hagrid dies we will be devastated right? But remember that Jo herself said that she WILL be killing off two characters in the seventh book (and of course Voldemort will be one of those because she couldn't write a 7 book series about good conquering evil if in the end evil prevails).. so maybe Hagrid will be the other character she told us would die. She also said that readers will be sad over who she chooses to die because we care about him/her.
I suppose I have a feeling Ron could be that other character. He is in fact the person who is closest to Harry and everyone else Harry loves or cares for is dead.
Maybe I'm just hoping it is Hagrid because he is much much older than Harry and the others so obviously I'd prefer my beloved Hagrid to die over Harry. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer Lucious to die anyday, but I'm just saying what I think is possible.
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haymoni - Aug 15, 2006 11:38 am (#1172 of 1297)
She said that she will be killing two MORE characters - there will be others besides these 2.
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legolas returns - Aug 15, 2006 1:13 pm (#1173 of 1297)
THere were quite a lot of deaths book 6. The total number isnt mentioned but there seems to be loads. Every few days there seemed to be death and injury related to characters that had played a role in previous books or have been mentioned in passing. There wont be that many people left intact at the end of book 7. I am taking JKRs comment as 2 main characters on the good side that are fundamental to the story.
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painting sheila - Aug 17, 2006 8:37 pm (#1174 of 1297)
Doing one of the things I love best . . .
I think someone in the Weasley family has to die - not "has to" but they have been spared so far.
I would like it to be Percy and not Ron - could we start a petition!!??
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 17, 2006 8:52 pm (#1175 of 1297)
Good idea Sheila. I doubt it would work though. I hope references to Ron dying are red herrings. The Chess game in PS/SS is pretty powerful. Over all Ron has not contributed as much as Hermione. He is still "finding himself." I hope he won't have to contribute the greatest sacrifice. LPO
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The One - Aug 17, 2006 11:21 pm (#1176 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Somehow I doubt that Percy will die, as it will please so many readers.
The death of a human is not supposed to be a reason for celebration, not even if the human in question was a git.
And Percy's problem is exactly that, he is a git. e is not really evil.
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painting sheila - Aug 17, 2006 11:27 pm (#1177 of 1297)
Doing one of the things I love best . . .
I wouldn't really celebrate - just be less sad.
I can see him redeeming himself and making a sacrifice to try and mend all the hurt he has caused.
In Chamber of Secrets, the comment is made that he wants to be Minister of Magic someday. He may be more power hungry than we all realize.
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haymoni - Aug 18, 2006 5:54 am (#1178 of 1297)
Didn't the actor that plays Percy ask Jo about his character after OotP came out?
I thought there was something out there about her telling him not to worry.
I don't know about Percy dying, but the question was about Percy being a jerk.
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Steve Newton - Aug 18, 2006 6:06 am (#1179 of 1297)
Librarian
Right now I am seeing no redemption for Percy. Being forced, by Scrimgeour, to visit over Christmas would have been a perfect time to mend fences without seeming to give in. He did not take the opportunity and was barely civil to Molly. I think that he has thrown in his lot totally with the Ministry and will not rejoin his family. He may even be of substantial help to the Voldemort faction.
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 18, 2006 11:19 am (#1180 of 1297)
Dumbledore's death may shock Percy into reevaluating his priorities.
He did have a certain respect for Dumbledore's power, even if he didn't believe him about Voldemort. But Percy had a lot of company in that respect.
If so, he might not die.
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 18, 2006 12:53 pm (#1181 of 1297)
I remember reading an interview that Jo gave where she was asked if Percy was under the Imperious Curse and that was why he was such a git to his family and to Harry. Her response was something like "unfortunately not." He's caught up in a power trip. I hope he does redeem himself. I don't think he will die however. I think it will be Charlie, one of the twins, or Molly or Arthur. Mind you, I love all those characters, even Charlie. He's had a small part in the books but still...he's a Weasley!
Speaking of redeeming himself, in my mind the only way Snape can do that is if he dies saving Harry, Ron, or Hermoine. He is probably in the Order but that doesn't make him good. He's been horrendous to Harry, Neville, and also to Hermoine on occasion. Not to mention Gryffindors in general. Jo said she made him abusive because as uncomfortable as it is for parents to hear, there are abusive teachers in the world. I think her plan to redeem him is to have him die saving one of the Trio.
As you can see, I'm still very angry at his treatment of Harry. I don't wish death on him but I can't see how else he can redeem himself.
Lily
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 18, 2006 5:00 pm (#1182 of 1297)
Lily I agree wholeheartedly. No matter what he does or is it does not take away the fact he is very cruel. Killing Dumbledore, even if it was planned, is unforgivable. There are some orders one should not carry out. LPO
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Good Evans - Aug 19, 2006 8:26 am (#1183 of 1297)
Practically perfect in every way
Percy may not be the nicest character, but I dont think he "deserves" to die nor that it would be a cause for celebration!!
I agree that a weasley will "bite the dust" - they are central to Harry's world, but unless he has a major coming back in to the fold early in the book, I am not clear that bumping off Perce will be anything other than a cop out - he is now a very minor background character, Fleur and Bill have become more prominent, yet I feel that they are still "too background" to be a major weasley death. A Twin, a Parent, Ron (hope not) or Ginny are much more in the frame due to their prominence and symbolic meanings in harry life.
just my two knuts !
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wynnleaf - Aug 19, 2006 2:53 pm (#1184 of 1297)
This belongs I suppose on the Snape thread, but I don't quite see how being a sarcastic, insulting, and unfair teacher can only be redeemed by death.
If Snape is loyal, than he's already done a huge amount of sacrifice for the cause. I think that what he's already done (if he's loyal) is quite enough to redeem himself.
What I think is really going on is that many readers dislike the character so much that they don't think they can reconcile themselves to the notion that he'd be loyal. So the only way to be satisfied with a loyal Snape, is to have a dead Snape.
JKR has managed without trying at all, to convince a large number of readers that Snape is loyal. Perhaps if she actually tries to convince the rest of the readers of his worthiness in book 7, she'll convince most of the rest of the readers to the point that people won't feel he has to be dead in order for them to be satisfied with his not being evil.
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Solitaire - Aug 20, 2006 11:04 am (#1185 of 1297)
Slughorn says that no parent would send their child to Hogwarts now
He also says, "Personally, I don't think we are in more danger at Hogwarts than we are anywhere else, but you can't expect mothers to think like that ..." This makes me think he will probably stay.
lily.phoenixfire: So does that mean for sure that one of them has to die as in cease to exist or can something else happen?
Alas, this is another one of those $64 million questions! Jo has been very cagey when asked about the meaning of the prophecy. We will have to wait for book 7. And yes, there is (or was) a prophecy thread.
Lily and LPO, I agree that Snape is a mean, nasty, rotten, miserable excuse for a human being, whatever his loyalties are. His behavior to Harry and several others has been despicable. If he is truly Dumbledore's man and on the side of good, I think he will have a lot of explaining to do in the end. I don't think a simple "I was only following orders" will suffice.
Solitaire
Edit: Lily, here is a link to the Prophecy II thread. It has not had a post in over a year, but it still appears to be active. It's in the Potter-pourri Group Section Folder.
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 20, 2006 1:51 pm (#1186 of 1297)
wynnleaf - Thanks for you comments! Snape is a lucky man. He has a huge fan base. You make some good points, (and you're right, this probably does belong on the Snape thread,) but in my own little humble opinion his loyalty and sacrifice do not excuse abusive behavior to students. It's his apparent joy in inflicting mental cruelty onto Harry and other underage students that disturbs me. Jo said that he is not a nice person and was surprised by his popularity. That shows her incredible skill at character development! I am convinced he is working for the Order, and not Voldemort, but that doesn't make me feel any better about him. Umbridge is supposedly not working for Voldemort either but she's evil with a big E!
Solitaire
Well said Solitaire! Thanks for the Prophecy II thread link. Jo said she and Trelawney worded the prophecy very carefully. To drive us all crazy no doubt!
Good Evans - I agree with you. A major Weasley is history. Probably more than one. I like all of them. Percy is irritating and I want to smack his power hungry little face sometimes but I don't want him to die. I am so worried about Fred and George. I also think Molly or Arthur will die. For some reason, I'm convinced Ginny is okay. I think Jo wants Harry and Ginny to end up getting married so I don't think she'll kill her. I could be wrong of course and if I am, I'll sob my heart out.
*Lily with a sheepish grin on her face will now slink off to the Snape thread and apologizes to everyone for going off topic.**
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legolas returns - Aug 20, 2006 1:59 pm (#1187 of 1297)
I would think that the students will be more in danger if Harry goes back to school now that Dumbledore is gone. I mean this in terms of Voldemort would be much more likely to try and find a way to get to Harry as the one he feared most is gone. More students are likely to get caught in the crossfire.
Edit-I know it was supposed to be impossible to break into Hogwarts but Sirius did it and then there was the cabinet incident.
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Choices - Aug 20, 2006 5:02 pm (#1188 of 1297)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Sirius entered as a dog - that makes a big difference. Dementors don't seem to notice dogs.
On another thread we discussed the possibility that inside the cabinet is sort of like "limbo" - it is not really Hogwarts, so one could apparated from inside it. The problem arises when the apparator hits Hogwart's space - perhaps that is why Montague ended up in a bathroom, badly confused.
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Magic Words - Aug 22, 2006 4:11 pm (#1189 of 1297)
If Snape is loyal, than he's already done a huge amount of sacrifice for the cause. I think that what he's already done (if he's loyal) is quite enough to redeem himself.
What I think is really going on is that many readers dislike the character so much that they don't think they can reconcile themselves to the notion that he'd be loyal. So the only way to be satisfied with a loyal Snape, is to have a dead Snape.
Very astute, Wynnleaf, as usual. Shade-of-gray characters like Snape are so much easier to classify once they've given their lives for one cause or another. Not to mention self-sacrifice seems to go a long way toward cancelling past misbehaviours. Personally I'd like to see him live, but I feel that your point would also apply to characters within JKR's world--they may see proof of his loyalty, but most will never be able to forgive him. Much neater if he dies.
I still think Ron is safe, chess game notwithstanding, because I'm fairly confident that Ron as the "black knight" foreshadowed Sirius's death and Hermione sending Harry on alone from the potions puzzle foreshadowed Dumbledore's death.
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lily.phoenixfire - Aug 23, 2006 11:11 am (#1190 of 1297)
but I feel that your point would also apply to characters within JKR's world--they may see proof of his loyalty, but most will never be able to forgive him. Much neater if he dies.I still think Ron is safe, chess game notwithstanding, because I'm fairly confident that Ron as the "black knight" foreshadowed Sirius's death and Hermione sending Harry on alone from the potions puzzle foreshadowed Dumbledore's death>
Magic Words - I like what you said about the characters within JKR's world. That is nicely put. I am with them on this one. I feel he is loyal but cannot forgive his abusive behavior.>
I think your points about Ron's black knight and Hermoine sending Harry on alone and what they symbolized is very good. That didn't occur to me.
I too feel Ron is safe and I also feel Harry and Hermoine are too. They are the only ones I feel completely sure of at this point however.
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 23, 2006 9:58 pm (#1191 of 1297)
Percy now has a birthday on Jo's site, so if you are a believer in the theory that people without birthdays die, you can cross him off your list.
I do not believe that theory myself, personally, although I think it's amusing, but I don't think Percy will die either, so that puts me in the middle of the road.
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Deb Zawacki - Aug 26, 2006 5:06 pm (#1192 of 1297)
Well, if someone Harry cares about has to die (which is likely) then I hope it isn't some quick AVKAD-ZAP in the field. I hope that or once Harry gets to say a proper goodbye and actually be there in the moment with the person. Seems like all the deaths Harry has witnesses have been quick zaps without any sort of reconciliation or grief process involved. Just a couple of wand waves and that's that.
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Solitaire - Aug 26, 2006 7:50 pm (#1193 of 1297)
what he's already done (if he's loyal) is quite enough to redeem himself.
Snape may very well have done enough to redeem himself. The problem with the things he has done--as we see from his own account in "Spinner's End"--is that just about everything he has done is open to more than one interpretation.
We already know that Dumbledore's trust in Snape did nothing to convince Harry. Would the faith of Remus or Arthur do it? I don't think so. To satisfy a person convinced that Snape is evil--Harry, for example--Snape is going to have to do something that can only be interpreted as completely intended to defeat Voldemort--by everyone who looks at it. JM2K, of course ...
Seems like all the deaths Harry has witnesses have been quick zaps without any sort of reconciliation or grief process involved. Just a couple of wand waves and that's that.
Unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast with an AK.
Solitaire
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wynnleaf - Aug 26, 2006 8:04 pm (#1194 of 1297)
We already know that Dumbledore's trust in Snape did nothing to convince Harry. Would the faith of Remus or Arthur do it? I don't think so. To satisfy a person convinced that Snape is evil--Harry, for example--Snape is going to have to do something that can only be interpreted as completely intended to defeat Voldemort--by everyone who looks at it.
Maybe not. At this point, we (and Harry) still don't know why DD trusted him. It could be that finding that out will be all the proof we need, just as it was all the proof DD needed. It all depends on the "why."
Thing is, if JKR shows us that his character is truly loyal, then all the stuff he said at Spinners End pretty much automatically becomes something any loyal spy would say to convince Bella, and ceases to have much importance.
Besides that, "proof" in a book is a funny thing. We believe Harry has really seen LV at the end of GOF because we got to "see" the scene right along with him. The other characters didn't get to see it; they had to rely on Harry's veracity. We had proof. They didn't. Similar things can happen with any of the pending mysteries in Book 7. In addition, it's possible JKR can use a different point of view in which we readers can be eyewitnesses to events that not even Harry can see. So we can get proofs that even Harry won't have. In that way, it would be possible for JKR to convince the reader, without convincing Harry. Not that I think she'd do that -- but it is possible.
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Solitaire - Aug 26, 2006 8:09 pm (#1195 of 1297)
The trick will be finding out what that proof is. Unless Snape tells, who will know now?
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Thom Matheson - Aug 27, 2006 2:04 pm (#1196 of 1297)
The more and more that we discuss this stuff, the more I am convinced that Dumbledore has left a trail of memories for Harry through the pensieve. Whether there are little bottles, or already deposits in the basin I just think that this is key.
Dumbledore must know that Harry doesn't have the first clue as to where to begin looking for Horcruxes, or how to beat the curses around them. Also, the Snape issue must be resolved for Harry to get through this and the memory for that could be available as well. Dumbledore would know this. I think that Snape will prove important to the finale, either good or bad.
I know I sound like a broken record but between the Pensieve and the Portrait Dumbledore must have planned for this in order to continue assist Harry.
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wynnleaf - Aug 27, 2006 3:04 pm (#1197 of 1297)
Well, I think we can be fairly certain JKR is planning to provide these answers, and hopefully she'll be giving them to Harry as well as the readers. So whether it's pensieve memories or other devices, I think the "proofs" that satisfied DD about Snape, horcrux information, etc. is going to come out, even if we don't know how right now.
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Magic Words - Aug 27, 2006 4:30 pm (#1198 of 1297)
What I'd like to see, which would fill all these requirements, is Snape giving Harry anonymous information that leads him to a couple Horcruxes. That way Harry can go on hating Snape through most of the book, but when they finally confront each other and Harry realizes it's Snape helping him, he'll suddenly have proof of his own. (One of the reasons I can see this happening is that there's already a perfect wrong theory for who might be passing the info--R.A.B.)
Dumbledore may have left Harry a couple memories, but my gut impression with the trail of memories theory is that it's a little too much of a cop-out. Why would JKR hand Harry all this information in a silver basin when she can make him get it the hard way?
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The One - Aug 28, 2006 9:14 am (#1199 of 1297)
Open minded sceptic
Magic Words, that is my thoughts also.
Dumbledore might of course have left something that will get Harry started, but except from that, Harry will have to carry on without his mentors help. Otherwise, what would be the point of killing Dumbledore?
And if Snape is on the good side, the whole plot would have served to get a spy close to Voldemort, and as everyone belives Snape to be a traitor, no one will belive his information anyway. So his only option is to pass his information on in a way such that Harry does not realize where the info comes from.
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haymoni - Aug 28, 2006 9:31 am (#1200 of 1297)
Learning Snape's Patronus was a big deal, wasn't it?
What if he sends Harry a message via the Order's method?
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