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Dumbledore's Will
Elanor Sat May 28, 2011 2:50 am
Dumbledore's Will
Gemini 13 - Apr 17, 2006 9:21 am
Edited by Kip Carter Jun 11, 2006 7:42 am
I had stated my thoughts to this in the "Was the Major Death in the HBP Real?" thread but thought it could be worthy of its own discussion.
My thought is this. Did Dumbledore have a Will and if he did, what could he have left for Harry? Someone mentioned in the Pensieve thread that they had wondered if Dumbledore had a will if maybe he left Harry the pensieve and his thoughts. Also what other things could possible have been left for Harry, members of the Order, specifically Hagrid, McGonigle, Lupin. We did not know that Sirius had a Will until the opening chapters of HBP, so is it possible that we will find out about Dumbledores will in the opening chapters of book 7? I personally believe Dumbledore must have left Harry something to aid him in finding the last of the Horcruxes... and if this death was planned and/or expected, then I am almost 100% positive he would have stated these things in his will.
This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. Elanor
Gemini 13 - Apr 17, 2006 9:21 am
Edited by Kip Carter Jun 11, 2006 7:42 am
I had stated my thoughts to this in the "Was the Major Death in the HBP Real?" thread but thought it could be worthy of its own discussion.
My thought is this. Did Dumbledore have a Will and if he did, what could he have left for Harry? Someone mentioned in the Pensieve thread that they had wondered if Dumbledore had a will if maybe he left Harry the pensieve and his thoughts. Also what other things could possible have been left for Harry, members of the Order, specifically Hagrid, McGonigle, Lupin. We did not know that Sirius had a Will until the opening chapters of HBP, so is it possible that we will find out about Dumbledores will in the opening chapters of book 7? I personally believe Dumbledore must have left Harry something to aid him in finding the last of the Horcruxes... and if this death was planned and/or expected, then I am almost 100% positive he would have stated these things in his will.
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Dumbledore's Will (Post 1 to 50)
Elanor Sat May 28, 2011 2:51 am
Phlegm452 - Apr 17, 2006 10:13 am (#1 of 140)
I must say, Harry will need the pensive. And any leads DD may have had on the other Horocruxes would be useful. I do think DD had a will. He wasn't unprepared for that eventuallity, even if he did not expect it on that day. On the other hand, who would he have given it to? Snape or McGonagall?
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Choices - Apr 17, 2006 10:16 am (#2 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
He could have left his worldly possessions to Hogwarts.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Apr 17, 2006 10:41 am (#3 of 140)
Also, the possibility exists that the majority of his possessions passed to Aberforth, aas his nearest surviving relative.
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Good Evans - Apr 17, 2006 10:47 am (#4 of 140)
Practically perfect in every way
or maybe just his herd of goats? I AGREE this is an interesting matter. Everything that will help Harry that DD had I would think will have been left to him, but his personal effects and any Dumbledore family items I would guess will indeed pass to Aberforth. Maybe Rmus too, DD I am sure would like to give Lupin some items to lessen his lack of material posessions. But other than that, it is difficult, we know nothing of a wife or any family other than Aberforth so we have no idea whether anyone is around to inherit. We do know that if DD was a secret keeper (maybe Madam Pince ?)the secret remains as it was at the time of death - so there are no "secrets" to suddenly be revealed through the will or after events.
I am sure Harry will receive but I doubt he is the main beneficiary, there is no reason as to why he should be.
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Choices - Apr 17, 2006 10:51 am (#5 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
If Harry is to step into Dumbledore's shoes as the next greatest wizard in the world, if indeed he is, then I think it would be only fitting that Dumbledore pass his possessions (or most of them) to Harry.
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Magic Words - Apr 17, 2006 11:12 am (#6 of 140)
If anyone inherits Fawkes, I think it will be Harry. But I think it's also possible that Fawkes will strike out on his own and never be heard from again (after he helps defeat Voldemort, of course).
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Nathan Zimmermann - Apr 17, 2006 11:14 am (#7 of 140)
The only possessions associated with Dumbledore are the following: the Put Outer, Dumbledore's watch, the Pensieve, The Miror of Erised, his instruments, and Slytherin's gold ring, and Fawkes. However, Fawkes disappearance at the end of HBP culd indicate that he like Dumbledore has died. The Lexicon also asserts that Dumbledore has in his possession a Time Turner.
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Good Evans - Apr 17, 2006 11:21 am (#8 of 140)
Practically perfect in every way
Aren't Phoenix's immortal? I assumed that Fawkes sort of adopted Dumbledore rather that Fawkes being owned by him. as they are reborn from the ashes, does this mean they do not die? (edit: hence what I mean is that Fawkes was not necessarily a baby when DD got him, I suspect they sort of adopted each other and they were both very well established by then)
I too have a leaning towards Fawkes deciding who and where his new master will be - not him being left to anyone.
just my thoughts - I have no reason to assume or beleive anything concrete on this
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Choices - Apr 17, 2006 11:25 am (#9 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I have a problem with the idea of anyone "inheriting" Fawkes. I think Fawkes is a highly intelligent and magical bird and I think if he ends up with Harry, it will be because Fawkes chooses to be with him. I don't think anyone "owns" a bird like Fawkes - I think he and Dumbledore had more of a partnership.
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Madam Pince - Apr 17, 2006 11:43 am (#10 of 140)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I agree, Choices and Good Evans. Although Fawkes had a cage and mainly hung around Dumbledore's office, somehow I got the feeling it was as more of a "companion by choice" rather than as a "pet." Because Dumbledore spoke of Fawkes as being "loyal" to him, I suppose is why I got that feeling. But then again, dogs can be loyal to their owners, so I don't know.... Hmmmmm, interesting.
For some reason, too, I had the impression that the Mirror of Erised belonged to the school rather than to Dumbledore personally. Again, though, it was just a feeling and I have no proof.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Apr 17, 2006 11:46 am (#11 of 140)
Good Evans, in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, it is asserted only that the power of the Phoenix to regenerate enables phoenixes to live to a great age but, it is not stated that phoenixes are immortal. The phoenix lives to an immense age as it can regenerate . . . (FB page 32)
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Soul Search - Apr 17, 2006 12:28 pm (#12 of 140)
There are a few canon hints for things that Harry will receive from Dumbledore.
Dumbledore repeatedly said that Harry would learn the full story of the ring. Since Dumbledore never got to it, but said Harry would hear it, Dumbledore must have made a pensive memory of the quest.
Far as I can tell, the first time anyone sees Gryffindor's sword is when Harry pulls it out of the hat. That means it belongs to Harry, if anyone. Dumbledore will confirm this in his will. Harry will find the sword useful. (Alternately, the sword was a Potter heirloom.)
After Harry learns that Snape told Voldemort about the prophecy, Dumbledore seems almost ready to tell him why he trusts Snape. I wouldn't be surprised that Dumbledore left a memory for Harry that explains Dumbledore's trust in Snape.
I have never understood why Dumbledore had James' cloak. Does he have other Potter things to give to Harry? There are things that are missing: James' and Lily's wands, for example.
In OotP we saw some strange magical instruments in Dumbledore's office. They were mentioned at least twice. He used one to learn something about Voldemort or Nagini. Harry could find some of these useful in his horcrux hunt or to find Voldemort. If useful to Harry, Dumbledore would have wanted him to have them.
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Gemini 13 - Apr 17, 2006 12:34 pm (#13 of 140)
I hadn't even thought about Fawkes, good point. I still believe Fawkes singing (Phoenix Lament) and flying away is the best evidence that Dumbledore truly did die. After reading your replies I am even more convinced that the biggest event of the beginning of book 7 will be finding the contents of Dumbledores will. I think its very likely Harry will be racking his brain and frustrated about where to start looking for a horcrux and then he will inherit an item from Dumbledore that helps bring the pieces together.
EDIT: Soul Search - Very good points you have there. I think most possible are pensieve memories and his instruments (maybe instructions as well?) Not sure about James and Lilys wand though.
What if Dumbledore knew that he would die, maybe even possibly in the cave or because of something else related to the horcrux hunt? and maybe he left Harry a letter that will help explain things better?
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Magic Words - Apr 17, 2006 1:19 pm (#14 of 140)
Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "inherit" in regard to Fawkes. I realize Fawkes doesn't belong to anyone, but since phoenixes are so loyal, I think he may choose to stay with Harry because Harry is also loyal to DD, and maybe because it's what DD wanted. So he wouldn't be leaving Fawkes to Harry in the sense of a possession, but he could ask Fawkes to stay with Harry.
I thought I remembered the Gryffindor sword being displayed in DD's office in the Pensieve memory where Voldemort asked for a job. I got the impression it was Hogwarts property.
I would be very surprised if DD left Harry a memory about why he trusted Snape. He's never told anyone why, even though Harry asks repeatedly and other Order members like McGonagall have doubted him. Even once Harry learns Snape's role in the prophecy, when DD considers telling him something, he decides against it.
I do think those magical silver instruments and other possessions of the Potters are fair game. And it's true that we still need a method of learning the ring story.
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Choices - Apr 17, 2006 1:41 pm (#15 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I just re-read the job interview and I find no mention of the sword, however......Harry does make the comment that the office was exactly as it is now except that it was snowing outside the window. I don't know if we can stretch that to mean the sword was there then or not, but I suppose it's possible.
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timrew - Apr 17, 2006 3:42 pm (#16 of 140)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Soul Search:- Dumbledore repeatedly said that Harry would learn the full story of the ring.
What ring? Am I getting my stories mixed up here? Has Harry got to cast the ring into Mount Doom, while dodging Gollum, the House Elf? Is he taking along his trusty companion, Ron Gamgee? Or would you rather be a fish?
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Soul Search - Apr 17, 2006 5:44 pm (#17 of 140)
Magic Words, I researched the sword a bit on the horcrux topic, trying to see why Dumbledore was sure it couldn't be a horcrux. The first reference to the sword is when Harry pulls it out of the hat.
I, too, thought Fawkes would go to Harry. Harry's comment, as Fawkes flew off, says we won't see Fawkes again. Too bad, Fawkes saved Harry's life in CoS and healed him in GoF. With Harry's dangerous tasks ahead, pheonix tears would come in handy.
I am convinced that the Snape/Harry relationship will be a major part of the book seven storyline. Harry's enmity towrds Snape is so great, however, that it will take something momentous just for Harry to entertain the idea that Snape is on his side. Harry wouldn't believe a "trust Severus Snape" message from Dumbledore, since it would have been made before Snape killed him. It will have to be more, perhaps "why" Dumbledore trusted him, or something like that.
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Magic Words - Apr 17, 2006 6:04 pm (#18 of 140)
Soul Search, I'm almost certain we will find out the reason Dumbledore trusted Snape. But I don't think we will find out from Dumbledore. Harry may stumble upon it accidentally, or Snape may tell him. I'm sure there are other explanations, but it seems to me most likely that whatever proof Dumbledore had was very personal and Snape asked him never to reveal it to anyone.
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Soul Search - Apr 17, 2006 6:17 pm (#19 of 140)
Magic Words, I think you are right that we won't see a pensive memory from Dumbledore that completely explains everything. I do think we will see something that gets Harry ready to accept the idea that Snape is still on his side.
It might also be that Dumbledore's reason for trusting Snape is connected to Harry. I don't quite buy into any Snape/Lily relationship, but there could be something similar that Dumbledore didn't think Harry was ready to know, in spite of "telling him everything."
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Thom Matheson - Apr 17, 2006 9:02 pm (#20 of 140)
Couple of thoughts. 1. Faulkes would not compete for Harry while he has his trusted friend in Hedwig. I don't see that as happening. I do believe that Dumbledore would have wanted to create for Harry some sort of guide in the event of his death. Whether that is the penseive or some form of journel or diary to be turned over to Harry upon his death would be in order. Maybe even his wand, though doubtful, as the wand picks the man, ansd all that. It is no great secret that Harry was Dumbledore's favorite as well as a self appointed god-grandfather if you will. Maybe a pact with Lilly and James. I can see Gringotts being involved here with instructions to notify Harry that there are items in DD's vault designated for Harry upon death. Gringott's would surely follow up with Harry to the letter of Dumbledore's instructions rather then leaving it up to an individual. Anything that would involve a disinterested third party to make sure that Harry receives the proper information and possessions.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Apr 18, 2006 1:49 am (#21 of 140)
Okay - Gryffindor sword. This was in the sorting hat (so how did it get there?) So DD didn't think it was a horcrux - did DD put it there for safety during the time when Myrtle died? Don't know and probably not important.
James's and Lily's wands - we know James had his in the house as he tried to fight Voldemort. DD may have taken them into his possession but it could also have been destroyed.
Pensive - I agree that this is something Harry will get. The Slytherin Ring and the truth about why DD trusted Snape is in there.
Timeturner - where does the Lexicon get this info from? I haven't seen it on any interview or remember seeing it in a book. But then what do I know.
Other items - many were destroyed by Harry at the end of OoP after Sirius's death. How many are left for Harry to inherit?
Fawkes - I can see Fawkes hanging around Harry due to his loyalty to DD but I'm not sure.
Anything else - Aberforth and others must inherit somethings. Dumbeldore must have a residence elsewhere than Hogwarts. We know some members of staff are married, as JKR has told us on so her site. Was DD one of them? I think the will issue may let us know.
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Laura W - Apr 18, 2006 3:20 am (#22 of 140)
Thom Matheson wrote: Faulkes would not compete for Harry while he has his trusted friend in Hedwig. I don't see that as happening.
In an interview with Raincoast Books (Canada), March 2001, Jo was asked, "Could Harry have a pet dragon?" To which she replied, "...So no, He's got more sense. He might get a different pet at some point but I'm saying no more at this moment."
That's what I believe they call a definite maybe. (smile) Fawkes? A rat? A toad? A huge cat? A pigmy puff? Just kidding around, obviously. Still ...
Laura
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TheSaint - Apr 18, 2006 4:42 am (#23 of 140)
Didn't he get 'Witherwings' already?
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Dobby Socks - Apr 18, 2006 8:27 am (#24 of 140)
The most critical thing Harry could inherit would be the Pensieve and some vials of memories. He needs to know the full reason for DD’s trust in Snape. Before they left for the cave, it seemed that DD was on the verge of telling him, but then decided against it. There is the privacy issue to consider, and I think DD is not the kind of person who would betray someone’s trust in him. But there don’t seem to be that many options for Harry to obtain this information, and it seems that DD would realize how vital it is for Harry to do so in order to complete the horcrux search successfully. This would be the easiest way to do it, but maybe not the best.
If there was something planned between Dumbledore and Snape that resulted in DD’s death, this would obviously be important information for Harry to have. And it might be a good stepping stone toward Harry trusting Snape. Also, because it’s not the actual reason DD trusted Snape, but results from that trust, it would reveal a lot to Harry without breaking any confidentiality that DD promised Severus.
I would love to see Fawkes go to Harry at some point. Not go to him in terms of ownership or inheritance, but just to show up at some moment (again) when Harry is in great need.
---Actually, it would be interesting if Fawkes were to appear and help Severus in Harry’s presence. I think this would go quite far in helping to convince Harry of Severus’ loyalty to Dumbledore.
Can anyone think of another way this information could be revealed? If it does have something to do with Lily, Harry may get a hint at Privet Drive or Godric’s Hollow. He then might be able to figure it out on his own, or with the insight of someone more level headed like Hermione. I can’t see Harry having any sort of interaction with Snape until he is first able to take some major steps toward trusting him.
DD should also leave him:
1.) any further information he might have on the Horcruxes (although I think he’s already told Harry what he knows) 2.) any further information about what happened at Godric’s Hollow that Harry would be unable to discover on his own 3.) the ring story (but I think, really, that the most important things have already been revealed: a.) that the protections and dangers surrounding each horcrux will be different and b.) the nature of the items Voldemort would have chosen) 4.) any personal items that belonged to the Potters
I find the fact that someone (Hermione to Hagrid? --my books aren’t handy at the moment) stated that the DA destroyed all the time turners at the DOM battle a bit suspicious. Either JKR is reassuring us that they won’t show up again, or hinting that they will.
I’d be very happy never to see another time turner, so I hope Dumbledore doesn’t will one to Harry. (!!!)
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Steve Newton - Apr 18, 2006 8:44 am (#25 of 140)
Librarian
Hermione quotes the Daily Prophet about the destruction of the time turners. If its in the Prophet you know its true. Right?
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Gemini 13 - Apr 18, 2006 9:53 am (#26 of 140)
I doubt we will see time turners again... atleast not in a way that largely effects the plot. I would like to know the story about why Dumbledores hand was all but dead. I am currently re-reading HBP and have been trying to remember if he ever told Harry about how it happened, but I guess not. Was it said that it had to do directly with the ring?
Phelim Mcintyre: You mentioned other items Dumbledore had which Harry destroyed after Sirius died. Didn't all of those objects mend themselves? I seem to remember Harry returning to Dumbledores office and seeing the objects sitting on the table like they had never been smashed.
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Choices - Apr 18, 2006 10:06 am (#27 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Gemini, the objects did mend themselves - I remember that also.
Dumbledore never got around to telling Harry what happened with his hand. Hopefully he has left that in a memory or some other way for Harry to find out. Perhaps Snape knows the full story and will tell Harry - providing Harry would even listen.
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Soul Search - Apr 18, 2006 10:10 am (#28 of 140)
I had a thought. It seems Dumbledore expected he wasn't going to live much longer. If he prepared a "why trust Snape" pensive memory for Harry, Harry would only get it after Dumbledore was dead. If it had been planned that Snape would kill Dumbledore, then Harry would really need that memory!
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Amilia Smith - Apr 18, 2006 10:19 am (#29 of 140)
Timeturner - where does the Lexicon get this info from? I haven't seen it on any interview or remember seeing it in a book.
They cite PoA as their source, but don't list a chapter. I do not remember this from the book. Does anyone know where it says this?
Mills.
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Mattew Bates - Apr 18, 2006 10:32 am (#30 of 140)
“Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahlil Gibran
As far as how Harry might find out about how Dumbledore injured his hand, Snape may taunt him with the story - just to underline his contempt for how slow & weak the old man had gotten. (I concede that Snape may still be working for the Order, but I have my doubts.)
Perhaps Harry will be formally introduced to Aberforth at the will reading.
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Magic Words - Apr 18, 2006 10:56 am (#31 of 140)
When Harry asked about Dumbledore's hand, he said he'd tell him some other time because "it is a thrilling tale and I wish to do it justice." JKR can't NOT tell us after a setup like that! To me, this is a very good candidate for a pensieve memory left to Harry. But while it might have been helpful to show Harry proof of Snape's trustworthiness, I still think Harry and Snape will have to work that out on their own. If nothing else, it would be better from a literary perspective.
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Laura W - Apr 19, 2006 12:41 am (#32 of 140)
"Didn't he get 'Witherwings' already?"
Yes, you are absolutely right, Saint. Although the beast is being taken care of by Hagrid, he was willed to Harry - along with the house - by Sirius and is now his pet. I forgot about Witherwings.
We will have to wait and see if Fawkes joins Harry's menagerie.
Laura
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Anna L. Black - Apr 19, 2006 8:51 am (#33 of 140)
"And he knew, without knowing how he knew it, that the phoenix had gone, had left Hogwarts for good, just as Dumbledore had left the school, had left the world... had left Harry." (HBP, "The Phoenix Lament")
Everything's possible, of course, but the finality of this quote makes me think that we won't see Fawkes anymore... (Although we might hear him if Priori Incantatem will happen once again... Fawkes's feather isn't in their wands for nothing. But that's a different discussion.) But I'll be more than happy to be wrong
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Good Evans - Apr 19, 2006 11:52 am (#34 of 140)
Practically perfect in every way
Do you think that you can "inherit" a memory??? I can understand inheriting a penseive, but what happens to the memories inside? DD had memories which were other peoples, so I guess it is possible, but how weird to have your thoughts and memories to be "property" that anyone can look at if they happen to have access to the memory receptacle??? he had all the memories by permission, I wonder if those in the penseive will indeed fade or dissappear if Harry hasn't already experienced them?? hmmnnn I need to think a bit more about this....
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Anna L. Black - Apr 19, 2006 12:05 pm (#35 of 140)
Harry was able to see Snape's Worst Memory without any permission or "owning" it (And DD's memories in GoF, as well, now that I think about it), so I guess anyone can see any memory, if only he has access to it.... No matter how old it is or if the person to whom it belongs is already dead.
"I therefore pass to Harry James Potter my pensieve, along with five bottles of memories that can be found in the second drawer of my wardrobe (just near the unopened Bertie Botts's Bla Bla pack.)" Yes, that's definitely what the will is going to say *nods seriously*
But now I had a thought - can a wizard leave a will in a form of a memory?? If you are alone, and are talking to yourself (or to your mirror?) out loud - can you extract a memory of it and use it as a will? Will Dumbledore leave a memory with instructions on destroying Horcruxes (or the story of his blackened hand)? Why am I asking so many questions?
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Choices - Apr 19, 2006 12:08 pm (#36 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
"Why am I asking so many questions?"
LOL Because it's a darn good way to get answers. Truth be told, it's not just Harry who is a Seeker - all true Harry Potter fanatics are Seekers, too.
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Magic Words - Apr 19, 2006 1:34 pm (#37 of 140)
"And he knew, without knowing how he knew it, that the phoenix had gone, had left Hogwarts for good" (HBP).
At this point, Harry thinks he's left Hogwarts for good as well.
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Deb Zawacki - Apr 19, 2006 6:16 pm (#38 of 140)
Besides, Harry has Hedwig--granted a pet but also something of a servant and messenger too. Could the phoenix and owl co-exist--? Will Harry reveal an animagus for himself--since is father could do it----
We saw that a phoenix can benreborn if they burst into flames--but apparently also when thy "Eat A spell" as witnessed when DD was duking it out with LV in the MOM.
I woder if his will specifies that McGonnagal or someone else finish Harry's training.
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Choices - Apr 19, 2006 6:23 pm (#39 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Deb - "Will Harry reveal an animagus for himself--since is father could do it----"
James was very smart and even then it took him (and Sirius) several years to become animagi. Evidently it is not easy to learn how to do this. As far as we know Harry has not been trying to learn how to become an animagus (he hasn't had time) and I don't think McGonagall even touches on it until 7th year - probably in her N.E.W.T. level classes.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Apr 19, 2006 6:41 pm (#40 of 140)
Deb, J.K. Rowling answered that question in a 1999 interview with the National Press Club
SB: We’re going to take a few more questions, and um, the next one is will Harry ever turn into a shape-changer like his father?
JKR: Animagus. No, Harry’s not in training to be an animagus, and if you’ve read book three, you won’t know – um, that’s a wizard that’s very, very difficult to do. They learn to turn themselves into animals. No, Harry is not, Harry is going to be concentrated elsewhere, he’s not going to have time to do that. He’s got quite a full agenda coming up, poor boy.
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Dobby Socks - Apr 19, 2006 7:26 pm (#41 of 140)
Regarding Fawkes, it’s probably just wishful thinking on my part, Anna and Magic Words. However, the quote does read Fawkes “had left Hogwarts for good,” so Fawkes could conceivably be out in the greater world somewhere. Well, LOL, probably not, but it’s nice to imagine anyway.
And, Magic Words, I also think it would be better from a literary perspective (both plot-wise and thematically) for Harry and Snape to come to terms with each other on their own. I’d personally rather read any of several dozen alternatives than to have JKR resort to a completely explanatory pensieve memory, especially in the first half of the book. But I think the two of them are going to require some serious intercession. I actually believe that Snape will do whatever it is he needs to do – he’s been putting up with Harry for 6 years now to reach some kind of goal. However, Harry’s going to need some serious persuasion.
Deb, if my two very territorial female cats can co-exist, I think Hedwig and Fawkes could (as long as their cages are kept a good distance apart in case of any major flame activity.)
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Gemini 13 - Apr 19, 2006 7:37 pm (#42 of 140)
"And he knew, without knowing how he knew it, that the phoenix had gone, had left Hogwarts for good" (HBP).
Yes, Fawkes has left HOGWARTS for good... but that doesn't mean he won't show up somewhere else ;-)
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Chinese fireball - Apr 20, 2006 8:52 pm (#43 of 140)
I can not imagine all of the items one accumulates over 150 years. Personal items, former teacher, headmaster, etc.
Will certain items go to Harry, Aberforth - it is his brother , other people?
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Dobby Socks - Apr 21, 2006 1:37 pm (#44 of 140)
I’m wondering if DD still had that plum velvet suit from the orphanage visit, and if so, who will get it: Aberforth, Arthur? Not the kind of thing traditionally included in wills, but it does seem a shame to let such a special item go to waste.
Harry could have a use for the pensieve sans vials of memories. I read this somewhere on the boards, can’t remember where, but I thought I’d bring it over here. If he were to examine his own memories in a more objective manner, he might gain insight into some things. Discover a horcrux that he had already seen, but didn’t realize the significance of at the time. Go back to whatever memories he might still have of Godric’s Hollow. DD would probably still have to leave a memory recorded for Harry telling him how to extract memories and how to get out if the pensieve by himself.
I guess we will have to see the ring story, since JKR built it up so much. I was intrigued for a while, but then lost interest. However, I’ve always been very curious about DD’s watch. It may only be a nifty oddity, but if there’s more to it I’d love to read the details if someone inherits it.
Steve Newton, a belated thanks for this: Hermione quotes the Daily Prophet about the destruction of the time turners. If its in the Prophet you know its true. Right? LOL, Steve. Didn’t realize they were the source. That pretty much leaves the time turner possibility open then.
~Camille
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frogface - Apr 23, 2006 2:23 pm (#45 of 140)
Its been speculated that Ron now has Dumbledore's watch. He got a watch when he came of age, didn't he. If Dumbledore knew he was going to die, would he have passed it on early. But why Ron?
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Dobby Socks - Apr 23, 2006 4:32 pm (#46 of 140)
PS/SS, US hardback, p.12: “Dumbledore gave a great sniff as he took a golden watch from his pocket and examined it. It was a very odd watch. It had twelve hands but no numbers; instead, little planets were moving around the edge.”
HBP, US hardback, p.390: “’Seriously good haul this year!’ he announced, holding up a heavy gold watch with odd symbols around the edge and tiny moving stars instead of hands. ‘See what Mum and Dad got me?’”
Thanks for reminding me of this. (Looks like I’ve misplaced my remembrall again.) Seems to be a similar, but slightly different watch. I’d like to think it is DD’s though. Maybe the watch was modified over the years; or maybe Ron isn’t able to see/read it yet because he’s not quite ready to understand it.
I think there’s a lot to the watch, but one of its functions is keeping track of people who are important to you (as Molly’s clock does.) If it is DD’s, perhaps it was “willed” to Ron early so as not to attract attention. DD is handing over the “Harry’s protector” role to Ron. Yesterday I read somewhere that there’s an archived “DD’s Watch” thread, so I might go searching for that.
My pensieve idea (last post) apparently came from the “Pensieve!” thread. No big surprise there.
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Choices - Apr 23, 2006 6:01 pm (#47 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think it is obvious that Dumbledore's watch is not for keeping time, but is Ron's?
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Gemini 13 - Apr 24, 2006 6:26 am (#48 of 140)
I seriously doubt that Dumbledore gave Ron his watch knowing he would soon die. To me that would be extremely fishy.
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bigearl - Apr 24, 2006 1:21 pm (#49 of 140)
Ron's watch and DD's watch, could just be made by the same wizard watch maker. Perhaps the extra hands can keep track of time, when using a time-turner, or for apparating into different time zones.
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Dobby Socks - Apr 24, 2006 9:42 pm (#50 of 140)
Well, see, um, Ron is really Dumbledore come from the past (or is it Ron is DD come from the future,) and he got this cool watch for his 17th birthday. By the time he’d become the older DD, but before he traveled back into the past, he got fed up with all those little moving stars – makes you motion sick just trying to read it – so he added 12 hands at the suggestion of a time-traveling Lupin (who is really James.) But alas, he forgot to remove it one day when transfiguring himself into the giant squid and the warranty had expired 130 years ago, and the darn thing wasn’t waterproof. So now he just wears it to add to his mystique (and to make Voldemort envious because he never had one.)
Seriously, though, I think they’re different watches. It’s still a bit odd that JKR put that (Ron’s) particular watch into the story. Either it’s important (and a possible big clue since it’s immediately followed by Romilda’s love spell, the poisoned drink, and the bezoar… are we meant to forget about it in the excitement?), or she’s trying to show us that odd watches such as these two aren’t uncommon in the WW, and readers can stop theorizing about DD’s.
I think Ron can tell time using his watch. He acts like it’s a particularly good present, but not one he’s confused about in the least. As for Dumbledore’s, I just think there’s more to it. One of those unique gadgets he has lying around which we don’t discover the meaning of until later. (Not that there’s much later left.) Or maybe it was written into SS/PS to add to our initial view of the Wizarding World as a place quite unlike our own.
I’m confident that DD could handle the time turner and apparating across time zones without a watch. He is very old and quite brilliant. He probably has all the time zones memorized. I’m relatively young and not so brilliant and it took me less than a minute to lock into my memory forever that 7pm EDT = Midnight GMT (darn WOMBAT… Lol!)
Well, I’m off to the “Was it Snape at Godric’s Hollow” archive. I’ll get to the watch thread soon (if it still exists.) I apologize, but I’m easily distracted.
Does anyone have any insight into or ideas about Dumbledore’s watch? Or should I just give it up. I will grant that it may be very useful for short-term time travel (the kind we’ve seen with the time turner.) But I don’t think that’s all there is to it. I'm with Choices on this one.
"Fishy" in what way, Gemini?
I must say, Harry will need the pensive. And any leads DD may have had on the other Horocruxes would be useful. I do think DD had a will. He wasn't unprepared for that eventuallity, even if he did not expect it on that day. On the other hand, who would he have given it to? Snape or McGonagall?
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Choices - Apr 17, 2006 10:16 am (#2 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
He could have left his worldly possessions to Hogwarts.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Apr 17, 2006 10:41 am (#3 of 140)
Also, the possibility exists that the majority of his possessions passed to Aberforth, aas his nearest surviving relative.
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Good Evans - Apr 17, 2006 10:47 am (#4 of 140)
Practically perfect in every way
or maybe just his herd of goats? I AGREE this is an interesting matter. Everything that will help Harry that DD had I would think will have been left to him, but his personal effects and any Dumbledore family items I would guess will indeed pass to Aberforth. Maybe Rmus too, DD I am sure would like to give Lupin some items to lessen his lack of material posessions. But other than that, it is difficult, we know nothing of a wife or any family other than Aberforth so we have no idea whether anyone is around to inherit. We do know that if DD was a secret keeper (maybe Madam Pince ?)the secret remains as it was at the time of death - so there are no "secrets" to suddenly be revealed through the will or after events.
I am sure Harry will receive but I doubt he is the main beneficiary, there is no reason as to why he should be.
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Choices - Apr 17, 2006 10:51 am (#5 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
If Harry is to step into Dumbledore's shoes as the next greatest wizard in the world, if indeed he is, then I think it would be only fitting that Dumbledore pass his possessions (or most of them) to Harry.
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Magic Words - Apr 17, 2006 11:12 am (#6 of 140)
If anyone inherits Fawkes, I think it will be Harry. But I think it's also possible that Fawkes will strike out on his own and never be heard from again (after he helps defeat Voldemort, of course).
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Nathan Zimmermann - Apr 17, 2006 11:14 am (#7 of 140)
The only possessions associated with Dumbledore are the following: the Put Outer, Dumbledore's watch, the Pensieve, The Miror of Erised, his instruments, and Slytherin's gold ring, and Fawkes. However, Fawkes disappearance at the end of HBP culd indicate that he like Dumbledore has died. The Lexicon also asserts that Dumbledore has in his possession a Time Turner.
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Good Evans - Apr 17, 2006 11:21 am (#8 of 140)
Practically perfect in every way
Aren't Phoenix's immortal? I assumed that Fawkes sort of adopted Dumbledore rather that Fawkes being owned by him. as they are reborn from the ashes, does this mean they do not die? (edit: hence what I mean is that Fawkes was not necessarily a baby when DD got him, I suspect they sort of adopted each other and they were both very well established by then)
I too have a leaning towards Fawkes deciding who and where his new master will be - not him being left to anyone.
just my thoughts - I have no reason to assume or beleive anything concrete on this
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Choices - Apr 17, 2006 11:25 am (#9 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I have a problem with the idea of anyone "inheriting" Fawkes. I think Fawkes is a highly intelligent and magical bird and I think if he ends up with Harry, it will be because Fawkes chooses to be with him. I don't think anyone "owns" a bird like Fawkes - I think he and Dumbledore had more of a partnership.
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Madam Pince - Apr 17, 2006 11:43 am (#10 of 140)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I agree, Choices and Good Evans. Although Fawkes had a cage and mainly hung around Dumbledore's office, somehow I got the feeling it was as more of a "companion by choice" rather than as a "pet." Because Dumbledore spoke of Fawkes as being "loyal" to him, I suppose is why I got that feeling. But then again, dogs can be loyal to their owners, so I don't know.... Hmmmmm, interesting.
For some reason, too, I had the impression that the Mirror of Erised belonged to the school rather than to Dumbledore personally. Again, though, it was just a feeling and I have no proof.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Apr 17, 2006 11:46 am (#11 of 140)
Good Evans, in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, it is asserted only that the power of the Phoenix to regenerate enables phoenixes to live to a great age but, it is not stated that phoenixes are immortal. The phoenix lives to an immense age as it can regenerate . . . (FB page 32)
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Soul Search - Apr 17, 2006 12:28 pm (#12 of 140)
There are a few canon hints for things that Harry will receive from Dumbledore.
Dumbledore repeatedly said that Harry would learn the full story of the ring. Since Dumbledore never got to it, but said Harry would hear it, Dumbledore must have made a pensive memory of the quest.
Far as I can tell, the first time anyone sees Gryffindor's sword is when Harry pulls it out of the hat. That means it belongs to Harry, if anyone. Dumbledore will confirm this in his will. Harry will find the sword useful. (Alternately, the sword was a Potter heirloom.)
After Harry learns that Snape told Voldemort about the prophecy, Dumbledore seems almost ready to tell him why he trusts Snape. I wouldn't be surprised that Dumbledore left a memory for Harry that explains Dumbledore's trust in Snape.
I have never understood why Dumbledore had James' cloak. Does he have other Potter things to give to Harry? There are things that are missing: James' and Lily's wands, for example.
In OotP we saw some strange magical instruments in Dumbledore's office. They were mentioned at least twice. He used one to learn something about Voldemort or Nagini. Harry could find some of these useful in his horcrux hunt or to find Voldemort. If useful to Harry, Dumbledore would have wanted him to have them.
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Gemini 13 - Apr 17, 2006 12:34 pm (#13 of 140)
I hadn't even thought about Fawkes, good point. I still believe Fawkes singing (Phoenix Lament) and flying away is the best evidence that Dumbledore truly did die. After reading your replies I am even more convinced that the biggest event of the beginning of book 7 will be finding the contents of Dumbledores will. I think its very likely Harry will be racking his brain and frustrated about where to start looking for a horcrux and then he will inherit an item from Dumbledore that helps bring the pieces together.
EDIT: Soul Search - Very good points you have there. I think most possible are pensieve memories and his instruments (maybe instructions as well?) Not sure about James and Lilys wand though.
What if Dumbledore knew that he would die, maybe even possibly in the cave or because of something else related to the horcrux hunt? and maybe he left Harry a letter that will help explain things better?
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Magic Words - Apr 17, 2006 1:19 pm (#14 of 140)
Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "inherit" in regard to Fawkes. I realize Fawkes doesn't belong to anyone, but since phoenixes are so loyal, I think he may choose to stay with Harry because Harry is also loyal to DD, and maybe because it's what DD wanted. So he wouldn't be leaving Fawkes to Harry in the sense of a possession, but he could ask Fawkes to stay with Harry.
I thought I remembered the Gryffindor sword being displayed in DD's office in the Pensieve memory where Voldemort asked for a job. I got the impression it was Hogwarts property.
I would be very surprised if DD left Harry a memory about why he trusted Snape. He's never told anyone why, even though Harry asks repeatedly and other Order members like McGonagall have doubted him. Even once Harry learns Snape's role in the prophecy, when DD considers telling him something, he decides against it.
I do think those magical silver instruments and other possessions of the Potters are fair game. And it's true that we still need a method of learning the ring story.
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Choices - Apr 17, 2006 1:41 pm (#15 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I just re-read the job interview and I find no mention of the sword, however......Harry does make the comment that the office was exactly as it is now except that it was snowing outside the window. I don't know if we can stretch that to mean the sword was there then or not, but I suppose it's possible.
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timrew - Apr 17, 2006 3:42 pm (#16 of 140)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Soul Search:- Dumbledore repeatedly said that Harry would learn the full story of the ring.
What ring? Am I getting my stories mixed up here? Has Harry got to cast the ring into Mount Doom, while dodging Gollum, the House Elf? Is he taking along his trusty companion, Ron Gamgee? Or would you rather be a fish?
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Soul Search - Apr 17, 2006 5:44 pm (#17 of 140)
Magic Words, I researched the sword a bit on the horcrux topic, trying to see why Dumbledore was sure it couldn't be a horcrux. The first reference to the sword is when Harry pulls it out of the hat.
I, too, thought Fawkes would go to Harry. Harry's comment, as Fawkes flew off, says we won't see Fawkes again. Too bad, Fawkes saved Harry's life in CoS and healed him in GoF. With Harry's dangerous tasks ahead, pheonix tears would come in handy.
I am convinced that the Snape/Harry relationship will be a major part of the book seven storyline. Harry's enmity towrds Snape is so great, however, that it will take something momentous just for Harry to entertain the idea that Snape is on his side. Harry wouldn't believe a "trust Severus Snape" message from Dumbledore, since it would have been made before Snape killed him. It will have to be more, perhaps "why" Dumbledore trusted him, or something like that.
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Magic Words - Apr 17, 2006 6:04 pm (#18 of 140)
Soul Search, I'm almost certain we will find out the reason Dumbledore trusted Snape. But I don't think we will find out from Dumbledore. Harry may stumble upon it accidentally, or Snape may tell him. I'm sure there are other explanations, but it seems to me most likely that whatever proof Dumbledore had was very personal and Snape asked him never to reveal it to anyone.
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Soul Search - Apr 17, 2006 6:17 pm (#19 of 140)
Magic Words, I think you are right that we won't see a pensive memory from Dumbledore that completely explains everything. I do think we will see something that gets Harry ready to accept the idea that Snape is still on his side.
It might also be that Dumbledore's reason for trusting Snape is connected to Harry. I don't quite buy into any Snape/Lily relationship, but there could be something similar that Dumbledore didn't think Harry was ready to know, in spite of "telling him everything."
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Thom Matheson - Apr 17, 2006 9:02 pm (#20 of 140)
Couple of thoughts. 1. Faulkes would not compete for Harry while he has his trusted friend in Hedwig. I don't see that as happening. I do believe that Dumbledore would have wanted to create for Harry some sort of guide in the event of his death. Whether that is the penseive or some form of journel or diary to be turned over to Harry upon his death would be in order. Maybe even his wand, though doubtful, as the wand picks the man, ansd all that. It is no great secret that Harry was Dumbledore's favorite as well as a self appointed god-grandfather if you will. Maybe a pact with Lilly and James. I can see Gringotts being involved here with instructions to notify Harry that there are items in DD's vault designated for Harry upon death. Gringott's would surely follow up with Harry to the letter of Dumbledore's instructions rather then leaving it up to an individual. Anything that would involve a disinterested third party to make sure that Harry receives the proper information and possessions.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Apr 18, 2006 1:49 am (#21 of 140)
Okay - Gryffindor sword. This was in the sorting hat (so how did it get there?) So DD didn't think it was a horcrux - did DD put it there for safety during the time when Myrtle died? Don't know and probably not important.
James's and Lily's wands - we know James had his in the house as he tried to fight Voldemort. DD may have taken them into his possession but it could also have been destroyed.
Pensive - I agree that this is something Harry will get. The Slytherin Ring and the truth about why DD trusted Snape is in there.
Timeturner - where does the Lexicon get this info from? I haven't seen it on any interview or remember seeing it in a book. But then what do I know.
Other items - many were destroyed by Harry at the end of OoP after Sirius's death. How many are left for Harry to inherit?
Fawkes - I can see Fawkes hanging around Harry due to his loyalty to DD but I'm not sure.
Anything else - Aberforth and others must inherit somethings. Dumbeldore must have a residence elsewhere than Hogwarts. We know some members of staff are married, as JKR has told us on so her site. Was DD one of them? I think the will issue may let us know.
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Laura W - Apr 18, 2006 3:20 am (#22 of 140)
Thom Matheson wrote: Faulkes would not compete for Harry while he has his trusted friend in Hedwig. I don't see that as happening.
In an interview with Raincoast Books (Canada), March 2001, Jo was asked, "Could Harry have a pet dragon?" To which she replied, "...So no, He's got more sense. He might get a different pet at some point but I'm saying no more at this moment."
That's what I believe they call a definite maybe. (smile) Fawkes? A rat? A toad? A huge cat? A pigmy puff? Just kidding around, obviously. Still ...
Laura
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TheSaint - Apr 18, 2006 4:42 am (#23 of 140)
Didn't he get 'Witherwings' already?
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Dobby Socks - Apr 18, 2006 8:27 am (#24 of 140)
The most critical thing Harry could inherit would be the Pensieve and some vials of memories. He needs to know the full reason for DD’s trust in Snape. Before they left for the cave, it seemed that DD was on the verge of telling him, but then decided against it. There is the privacy issue to consider, and I think DD is not the kind of person who would betray someone’s trust in him. But there don’t seem to be that many options for Harry to obtain this information, and it seems that DD would realize how vital it is for Harry to do so in order to complete the horcrux search successfully. This would be the easiest way to do it, but maybe not the best.
If there was something planned between Dumbledore and Snape that resulted in DD’s death, this would obviously be important information for Harry to have. And it might be a good stepping stone toward Harry trusting Snape. Also, because it’s not the actual reason DD trusted Snape, but results from that trust, it would reveal a lot to Harry without breaking any confidentiality that DD promised Severus.
I would love to see Fawkes go to Harry at some point. Not go to him in terms of ownership or inheritance, but just to show up at some moment (again) when Harry is in great need.
---Actually, it would be interesting if Fawkes were to appear and help Severus in Harry’s presence. I think this would go quite far in helping to convince Harry of Severus’ loyalty to Dumbledore.
Can anyone think of another way this information could be revealed? If it does have something to do with Lily, Harry may get a hint at Privet Drive or Godric’s Hollow. He then might be able to figure it out on his own, or with the insight of someone more level headed like Hermione. I can’t see Harry having any sort of interaction with Snape until he is first able to take some major steps toward trusting him.
DD should also leave him:
1.) any further information he might have on the Horcruxes (although I think he’s already told Harry what he knows) 2.) any further information about what happened at Godric’s Hollow that Harry would be unable to discover on his own 3.) the ring story (but I think, really, that the most important things have already been revealed: a.) that the protections and dangers surrounding each horcrux will be different and b.) the nature of the items Voldemort would have chosen) 4.) any personal items that belonged to the Potters
I find the fact that someone (Hermione to Hagrid? --my books aren’t handy at the moment) stated that the DA destroyed all the time turners at the DOM battle a bit suspicious. Either JKR is reassuring us that they won’t show up again, or hinting that they will.
I’d be very happy never to see another time turner, so I hope Dumbledore doesn’t will one to Harry. (!!!)
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Steve Newton - Apr 18, 2006 8:44 am (#25 of 140)
Librarian
Hermione quotes the Daily Prophet about the destruction of the time turners. If its in the Prophet you know its true. Right?
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Gemini 13 - Apr 18, 2006 9:53 am (#26 of 140)
I doubt we will see time turners again... atleast not in a way that largely effects the plot. I would like to know the story about why Dumbledores hand was all but dead. I am currently re-reading HBP and have been trying to remember if he ever told Harry about how it happened, but I guess not. Was it said that it had to do directly with the ring?
Phelim Mcintyre: You mentioned other items Dumbledore had which Harry destroyed after Sirius died. Didn't all of those objects mend themselves? I seem to remember Harry returning to Dumbledores office and seeing the objects sitting on the table like they had never been smashed.
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Choices - Apr 18, 2006 10:06 am (#27 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Gemini, the objects did mend themselves - I remember that also.
Dumbledore never got around to telling Harry what happened with his hand. Hopefully he has left that in a memory or some other way for Harry to find out. Perhaps Snape knows the full story and will tell Harry - providing Harry would even listen.
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Soul Search - Apr 18, 2006 10:10 am (#28 of 140)
I had a thought. It seems Dumbledore expected he wasn't going to live much longer. If he prepared a "why trust Snape" pensive memory for Harry, Harry would only get it after Dumbledore was dead. If it had been planned that Snape would kill Dumbledore, then Harry would really need that memory!
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Amilia Smith - Apr 18, 2006 10:19 am (#29 of 140)
Timeturner - where does the Lexicon get this info from? I haven't seen it on any interview or remember seeing it in a book.
They cite PoA as their source, but don't list a chapter. I do not remember this from the book. Does anyone know where it says this?
Mills.
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Mattew Bates - Apr 18, 2006 10:32 am (#30 of 140)
“Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahlil Gibran
As far as how Harry might find out about how Dumbledore injured his hand, Snape may taunt him with the story - just to underline his contempt for how slow & weak the old man had gotten. (I concede that Snape may still be working for the Order, but I have my doubts.)
Perhaps Harry will be formally introduced to Aberforth at the will reading.
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Magic Words - Apr 18, 2006 10:56 am (#31 of 140)
When Harry asked about Dumbledore's hand, he said he'd tell him some other time because "it is a thrilling tale and I wish to do it justice." JKR can't NOT tell us after a setup like that! To me, this is a very good candidate for a pensieve memory left to Harry. But while it might have been helpful to show Harry proof of Snape's trustworthiness, I still think Harry and Snape will have to work that out on their own. If nothing else, it would be better from a literary perspective.
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Laura W - Apr 19, 2006 12:41 am (#32 of 140)
"Didn't he get 'Witherwings' already?"
Yes, you are absolutely right, Saint. Although the beast is being taken care of by Hagrid, he was willed to Harry - along with the house - by Sirius and is now his pet. I forgot about Witherwings.
We will have to wait and see if Fawkes joins Harry's menagerie.
Laura
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Anna L. Black - Apr 19, 2006 8:51 am (#33 of 140)
"And he knew, without knowing how he knew it, that the phoenix had gone, had left Hogwarts for good, just as Dumbledore had left the school, had left the world... had left Harry." (HBP, "The Phoenix Lament")
Everything's possible, of course, but the finality of this quote makes me think that we won't see Fawkes anymore... (Although we might hear him if Priori Incantatem will happen once again... Fawkes's feather isn't in their wands for nothing. But that's a different discussion.) But I'll be more than happy to be wrong
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Good Evans - Apr 19, 2006 11:52 am (#34 of 140)
Practically perfect in every way
Do you think that you can "inherit" a memory??? I can understand inheriting a penseive, but what happens to the memories inside? DD had memories which were other peoples, so I guess it is possible, but how weird to have your thoughts and memories to be "property" that anyone can look at if they happen to have access to the memory receptacle??? he had all the memories by permission, I wonder if those in the penseive will indeed fade or dissappear if Harry hasn't already experienced them?? hmmnnn I need to think a bit more about this....
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Anna L. Black - Apr 19, 2006 12:05 pm (#35 of 140)
Harry was able to see Snape's Worst Memory without any permission or "owning" it (And DD's memories in GoF, as well, now that I think about it), so I guess anyone can see any memory, if only he has access to it.... No matter how old it is or if the person to whom it belongs is already dead.
"I therefore pass to Harry James Potter my pensieve, along with five bottles of memories that can be found in the second drawer of my wardrobe (just near the unopened Bertie Botts's Bla Bla pack.)" Yes, that's definitely what the will is going to say *nods seriously*
But now I had a thought - can a wizard leave a will in a form of a memory?? If you are alone, and are talking to yourself (or to your mirror?) out loud - can you extract a memory of it and use it as a will? Will Dumbledore leave a memory with instructions on destroying Horcruxes (or the story of his blackened hand)? Why am I asking so many questions?
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Choices - Apr 19, 2006 12:08 pm (#36 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
"Why am I asking so many questions?"
LOL Because it's a darn good way to get answers. Truth be told, it's not just Harry who is a Seeker - all true Harry Potter fanatics are Seekers, too.
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Magic Words - Apr 19, 2006 1:34 pm (#37 of 140)
"And he knew, without knowing how he knew it, that the phoenix had gone, had left Hogwarts for good" (HBP).
At this point, Harry thinks he's left Hogwarts for good as well.
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Deb Zawacki - Apr 19, 2006 6:16 pm (#38 of 140)
Besides, Harry has Hedwig--granted a pet but also something of a servant and messenger too. Could the phoenix and owl co-exist--? Will Harry reveal an animagus for himself--since is father could do it----
We saw that a phoenix can benreborn if they burst into flames--but apparently also when thy "Eat A spell" as witnessed when DD was duking it out with LV in the MOM.
I woder if his will specifies that McGonnagal or someone else finish Harry's training.
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Choices - Apr 19, 2006 6:23 pm (#39 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Deb - "Will Harry reveal an animagus for himself--since is father could do it----"
James was very smart and even then it took him (and Sirius) several years to become animagi. Evidently it is not easy to learn how to do this. As far as we know Harry has not been trying to learn how to become an animagus (he hasn't had time) and I don't think McGonagall even touches on it until 7th year - probably in her N.E.W.T. level classes.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Apr 19, 2006 6:41 pm (#40 of 140)
Deb, J.K. Rowling answered that question in a 1999 interview with the National Press Club
SB: We’re going to take a few more questions, and um, the next one is will Harry ever turn into a shape-changer like his father?
JKR: Animagus. No, Harry’s not in training to be an animagus, and if you’ve read book three, you won’t know – um, that’s a wizard that’s very, very difficult to do. They learn to turn themselves into animals. No, Harry is not, Harry is going to be concentrated elsewhere, he’s not going to have time to do that. He’s got quite a full agenda coming up, poor boy.
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Dobby Socks - Apr 19, 2006 7:26 pm (#41 of 140)
Regarding Fawkes, it’s probably just wishful thinking on my part, Anna and Magic Words. However, the quote does read Fawkes “had left Hogwarts for good,” so Fawkes could conceivably be out in the greater world somewhere. Well, LOL, probably not, but it’s nice to imagine anyway.
And, Magic Words, I also think it would be better from a literary perspective (both plot-wise and thematically) for Harry and Snape to come to terms with each other on their own. I’d personally rather read any of several dozen alternatives than to have JKR resort to a completely explanatory pensieve memory, especially in the first half of the book. But I think the two of them are going to require some serious intercession. I actually believe that Snape will do whatever it is he needs to do – he’s been putting up with Harry for 6 years now to reach some kind of goal. However, Harry’s going to need some serious persuasion.
Deb, if my two very territorial female cats can co-exist, I think Hedwig and Fawkes could (as long as their cages are kept a good distance apart in case of any major flame activity.)
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Gemini 13 - Apr 19, 2006 7:37 pm (#42 of 140)
"And he knew, without knowing how he knew it, that the phoenix had gone, had left Hogwarts for good" (HBP).
Yes, Fawkes has left HOGWARTS for good... but that doesn't mean he won't show up somewhere else ;-)
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Chinese fireball - Apr 20, 2006 8:52 pm (#43 of 140)
I can not imagine all of the items one accumulates over 150 years. Personal items, former teacher, headmaster, etc.
Will certain items go to Harry, Aberforth - it is his brother , other people?
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Dobby Socks - Apr 21, 2006 1:37 pm (#44 of 140)
I’m wondering if DD still had that plum velvet suit from the orphanage visit, and if so, who will get it: Aberforth, Arthur? Not the kind of thing traditionally included in wills, but it does seem a shame to let such a special item go to waste.
Harry could have a use for the pensieve sans vials of memories. I read this somewhere on the boards, can’t remember where, but I thought I’d bring it over here. If he were to examine his own memories in a more objective manner, he might gain insight into some things. Discover a horcrux that he had already seen, but didn’t realize the significance of at the time. Go back to whatever memories he might still have of Godric’s Hollow. DD would probably still have to leave a memory recorded for Harry telling him how to extract memories and how to get out if the pensieve by himself.
I guess we will have to see the ring story, since JKR built it up so much. I was intrigued for a while, but then lost interest. However, I’ve always been very curious about DD’s watch. It may only be a nifty oddity, but if there’s more to it I’d love to read the details if someone inherits it.
Steve Newton, a belated thanks for this: Hermione quotes the Daily Prophet about the destruction of the time turners. If its in the Prophet you know its true. Right? LOL, Steve. Didn’t realize they were the source. That pretty much leaves the time turner possibility open then.
~Camille
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frogface - Apr 23, 2006 2:23 pm (#45 of 140)
Its been speculated that Ron now has Dumbledore's watch. He got a watch when he came of age, didn't he. If Dumbledore knew he was going to die, would he have passed it on early. But why Ron?
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Dobby Socks - Apr 23, 2006 4:32 pm (#46 of 140)
PS/SS, US hardback, p.12: “Dumbledore gave a great sniff as he took a golden watch from his pocket and examined it. It was a very odd watch. It had twelve hands but no numbers; instead, little planets were moving around the edge.”
HBP, US hardback, p.390: “’Seriously good haul this year!’ he announced, holding up a heavy gold watch with odd symbols around the edge and tiny moving stars instead of hands. ‘See what Mum and Dad got me?’”
Thanks for reminding me of this. (Looks like I’ve misplaced my remembrall again.) Seems to be a similar, but slightly different watch. I’d like to think it is DD’s though. Maybe the watch was modified over the years; or maybe Ron isn’t able to see/read it yet because he’s not quite ready to understand it.
I think there’s a lot to the watch, but one of its functions is keeping track of people who are important to you (as Molly’s clock does.) If it is DD’s, perhaps it was “willed” to Ron early so as not to attract attention. DD is handing over the “Harry’s protector” role to Ron. Yesterday I read somewhere that there’s an archived “DD’s Watch” thread, so I might go searching for that.
My pensieve idea (last post) apparently came from the “Pensieve!” thread. No big surprise there.
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Choices - Apr 23, 2006 6:01 pm (#47 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think it is obvious that Dumbledore's watch is not for keeping time, but is Ron's?
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Gemini 13 - Apr 24, 2006 6:26 am (#48 of 140)
I seriously doubt that Dumbledore gave Ron his watch knowing he would soon die. To me that would be extremely fishy.
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bigearl - Apr 24, 2006 1:21 pm (#49 of 140)
Ron's watch and DD's watch, could just be made by the same wizard watch maker. Perhaps the extra hands can keep track of time, when using a time-turner, or for apparating into different time zones.
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Dobby Socks - Apr 24, 2006 9:42 pm (#50 of 140)
Well, see, um, Ron is really Dumbledore come from the past (or is it Ron is DD come from the future,) and he got this cool watch for his 17th birthday. By the time he’d become the older DD, but before he traveled back into the past, he got fed up with all those little moving stars – makes you motion sick just trying to read it – so he added 12 hands at the suggestion of a time-traveling Lupin (who is really James.) But alas, he forgot to remove it one day when transfiguring himself into the giant squid and the warranty had expired 130 years ago, and the darn thing wasn’t waterproof. So now he just wears it to add to his mystique (and to make Voldemort envious because he never had one.)
Seriously, though, I think they’re different watches. It’s still a bit odd that JKR put that (Ron’s) particular watch into the story. Either it’s important (and a possible big clue since it’s immediately followed by Romilda’s love spell, the poisoned drink, and the bezoar… are we meant to forget about it in the excitement?), or she’s trying to show us that odd watches such as these two aren’t uncommon in the WW, and readers can stop theorizing about DD’s.
I think Ron can tell time using his watch. He acts like it’s a particularly good present, but not one he’s confused about in the least. As for Dumbledore’s, I just think there’s more to it. One of those unique gadgets he has lying around which we don’t discover the meaning of until later. (Not that there’s much later left.) Or maybe it was written into SS/PS to add to our initial view of the Wizarding World as a place quite unlike our own.
I’m confident that DD could handle the time turner and apparating across time zones without a watch. He is very old and quite brilliant. He probably has all the time zones memorized. I’m relatively young and not so brilliant and it took me less than a minute to lock into my memory forever that 7pm EDT = Midnight GMT (darn WOMBAT… Lol!)
Well, I’m off to the “Was it Snape at Godric’s Hollow” archive. I’ll get to the watch thread soon (if it still exists.) I apologize, but I’m easily distracted.
Does anyone have any insight into or ideas about Dumbledore’s watch? Or should I just give it up. I will grant that it may be very useful for short-term time travel (the kind we’ve seen with the time turner.) But I don’t think that’s all there is to it. I'm with Choices on this one.
"Fishy" in what way, Gemini?
Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
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Dumbledore's Will (Post 51 to 100)
Elanor Sat May 28, 2011 2:52 am
Gemini 13 - Apr 25, 2006 6:37 am (#51 of 140)
Dobbys Socks: I say it would be fishy if it was infact Dumbledores watch. Why suddenly would Dumbledore give up his watch to Ron? He doesn't have a close relationship with Ron that he does with Harry. Also, I'm sure someone would see it and go "hey, isn't that Dumbledore's watch?". I mean its possible that a watch like that is common so no one would notice, but it would be atleast 16 years old, and as far as I know, we don't know much about wizard fashion trends. So to sum it all up, I think if it was indeed Dumbledores watch, someone would notice... AND if it was Dumbledores watch someone would ask "Why did he give it up just a couple months before his death?"
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journeymom - Apr 25, 2006 9:12 am (#52 of 140)
To be a hint to Ron (and Harry by extension) that Dumbledore knew the gig was up. Ron might connect the dots sometime in Book 7. This would corroborate any other evidence that Dd planned or anticipated his own death.
Ron was coming into his own in HBP. He may not have had a close relationship with Dd like Harry, but Dd probably had something to do with making Ron a prefect. It's not impossible to think Dd would give Ron a really cool thing like his watch.
Is it possible the watch is a horcrux? That's probably stretching it.
That wasn't that last time we'll see that watch.
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TheSaint - Apr 25, 2006 9:15 pm (#53 of 140)
There is that theory that Arthur's brother's are Albus and Aberforth. Would be most entertaining if they were the heirs of Gryffindor. Sword goes to the Weasleys!
One of my favorite theories.
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journeymom - Apr 26, 2006 9:40 am (#54 of 140)
Heh! I like that idea! They'd be step brothers? Or, no, I guess it would be half brothers. Same mother, different fathers.
We don't see Dumbledores on the Black family tree, but we do see Weasleys.
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Choices - Apr 26, 2006 11:10 am (#55 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
"There is that theory that Arthur's brother's are Albus and Aberforth."
There's nothing like having your kids a 100 years apart. Poor Mrs. Dumbledore-Weasley. LOL
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haymoni - Apr 26, 2006 1:00 pm (#56 of 140)
I'm guessing we would have heard from Ron that his uncle was Dumbledore.
Unless he doesn't know....
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Phelim Mcintyre - Apr 27, 2006 5:44 am (#57 of 140)
May be a generation or more back, like Great-uncle Albus.
Actually journeymoon we don't see the Weasleys on the tapestry. Sirius mentions being related to Arthur but tells Harry not to bother finding him as he isn't on there. As such there is no way Mrs Black would have let DD be on there.
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Die Zimtzicke - May 8, 2006 3:54 pm (#58 of 140)
I think Aberforth is going to be important, so I do think Dumbledore's personal effects will mostly go to him. I think Harry is going to spend some time with Aberforth in the last book. I think a lot of the things in Dumbledore's office will go along with the office...to future headmasters and mistresses.
Fawkes is not a possesion to me, he's a magical creature who stayed with Dumbledore out of loyalty and love. I think, however, that he might well go to Harry next, because he has a connection with Harry, who is also Dumbledore's man, and also because Harry is connected to Fawkes by the phoenix tears in his system that saved his life in the CoS.
I have no high hopes though that Dumbledore's will is going to be interesting, because I really expected Sirius to leave something to Lupin, the last loyal surviving Maruader, when he died, and as far as we know he did not.
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Laura W - May 9, 2006 3:14 am (#59 of 140)
Holy Merlin, I never thought of that! Lupin and Sirius were not as close as Sirius was to James, but they still hung out together throughout their seven years of school and Lupin called the other three Marauders his only friends. Sirius thought highly enough of his friendship with Remus to work on turning himself into an Animagus - very difficult magic - so the wolf would have company in the Shrieking Shack. Etc, etc.
Yet, knowing how impoverished Lupin was because that toad Umbridge (with my apologies to toads everywhere) passed that law which doesn't allow employers to hire werewolves, Sirius Black left him nothing. In HBP, Dumbledore *does* inform Harry that his godfather left everything to him: house, gold, Hippogriff and all.
Gee, Harry already has a small fortune in the bank - which I do not begrudge him at all -, so you'd think Sirius would have given *something* to his friend Remus so that he could eat properly and buy some decent robes and have some security for the remainder of his life.
Anyway, I know this thread is about Dumbledore's will, so please continue ...
Laura
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freshwater - May 11, 2006 11:36 am (#60 of 140)
Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
Laura W., your "apologies to toads everywhere" made me LOL!
Thanks for that!
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Anna L. Black - May 12, 2006 6:38 am (#61 of 140)
"I think, however, that he might well go to Harry next, because he has a connection with Harry, who is also Dumbledore's man, and also because Harry is connected to Fawkes by the phoenix tears in his system that saved his life in the CoS." - Die Zimtzicke
Well, I don't know if phoenix tears stay in your system after healing your wounds, but Harry is definitely connected to Fawkes through the feather in his wand!
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journeymom - May 12, 2006 9:22 am (#62 of 140)
1) It would have made more sense to us and have been tidier if Sirius willed his stuff to Lupin. But maybe it's a matter of pride. Maybe Sirius knew Remus would be self-conscious about being the recipient that way. Also, it's his obligation as Harry's godfather.
2) Back on the extremely unlikely but entertaining Dd as Arthur's step brother idea, Arcturus and Lysandra Black's daughter, Cedrella, married Septimus Weasley. But that's not from the tapestry, it's from the charity auction family tree.
Carry on!
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Laura W - May 13, 2006 7:31 am (#63 of 140)
" It would have made more sense to us and have been tidier if Sirius willed his stuff to Lupin."
Not all of it, journeymom. I wasn't suggesting that. *Of course* the majority of Sirius' stuff would and should go to Harry. Both because Harry is his godson and because of Sirius' relationship with Harry's parents (especially James). But Sirius had quite an accumulation of gold, goblets, property, etc. whether he wanted it or not: the Black family fortune. Just a small part of that could have been willed to his good mate, Remus Lupin. Not as charity, but just as a recognition of their friendship which started in school and continued throughout their adult lives.
(ME rewriting HBP, chapter three, p. 51, Raincoast: Dumbledore speaking to Harry, "But first of all I must tell you that Sirius's will was discovered a week ago and that he left you most of what he owned, with the exception of one hundred Galleons which he left to Remus Lupin." Harry was shocked by Dumbledore's news but was also pleased that Lupin would be taken care of.")
And I tell people I *don't* write fiction. (Ha, ha.) Ok, now back to the real book ...
You know what's REALLY scary, Anna L. Black? If Harry is definitely connected to Fawkes through the feather in his wand, so is Voldemort. (shudder) No, I think the real connection there is Harry's loyalty to DD. Which is why Fawkes came to him in the Chamber in CoS (ie - when 12-year-old Harry told the young Tom Riddle that he (TR) was *not* the greatest wizard; that DD was.)
Laura
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Die Zimtzicke - May 13, 2006 7:29 pm (#64 of 140)
I think Harry is connected to Fawkes more by the fact that Harry has his tears in system. That trumps the feathers. Fawkes saved Harry's life. I really wish Fawkes would go to Harry now. Alas, however, I doubt if he is a possession to be willed to anyone. Fawkes would have to choose to do that, I think.
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Solitaire - May 14, 2006 10:14 am (#65 of 140)
you'd think Sirius would have given *something* to his friend Remus
I think Sirius knew enough of Harry's generous nature to know that he would find some honorable and acceptable way to help Remus, just as he found an unobtrusive way for Ron to receive new dress robes. Harry may have plenty of gold now, but he remembers what it was like to live on the Dursleys' crumbs and wear the Dud's hand-me-downs. Perhaps Sirius believed Harry would ask Remus to come and live at GP, if Harry is alone when he finally takes up residence ... if he ever does.
Solitaire
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Deb Zawacki - May 14, 2006 2:50 pm (#66 of 140)
I'm not sure of my phoenix lore--I read a book as a child called David and the Phoenix--and maybe a sequel-- I don't know if a phoenix becomes attached to one person for as long as they need it to be--and then when they get the strength couage or whatever, it moves on...
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Die Zimtzicke - May 15, 2006 4:05 pm (#67 of 140)
Remus has a home. (Probably a family home.) Sirius went to it to hide out at the end of GoF. He doesn't need a home as I see it. He needs a job, or at least some money. I still think it was strange that Sirius, who was supposedly so close to him, didn't think to give him some at some point. If he had willed it to him, Remus wouldn't have been in a positon to argue with Sirius about it.
But we are getting dreadfully off-topic. Back to Dumbledore...what do we know for sure he owns outright on his own, that doesn't belong to Hogwarts? Maybe after living at the school for so long, his personal possessions are few, since a lot of his things he uses are school supplied or school owned.
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haymoni - May 16, 2006 7:08 am (#68 of 140)
Maybe he did leave something to Remus.
Dumbledore's comments were directed to Harry. He may not have thought it necessary to list the entire contents of Sirius's will.
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Gemini 13 - May 16, 2006 7:24 am (#69 of 140)
As far as Sirius will... whether he willed anything to Lupin does not impact the story at all. Whatever he left for Harry was important to the story. Basically, it shouldn't make a difference to us because it doesn't impact the story in any way... and maybe JKR expected us to assume he left other people things, or maybe it was meant for Harry to get everything :shrugs:
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Nathan Zimmermann - May 16, 2006 5:13 pm (#70 of 140)
Where is Dumbledore likely to have stored his will?
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virginiaelizabeth - May 16, 2006 5:58 pm (#71 of 140)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
Maybe he left it as a memory, so Harry can veiw it in the pensieve, I also think that Dumbledore will leave more memories to harry, possibly about the remaining horcruxes.
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Choices - May 16, 2006 7:02 pm (#72 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I remember somewhere in the books that Harry wanted to contact Dumbledore during the summer and he realized that he had no clue where Dumbledore went for sunmer vacation. It was never mentioned that I can recall that Dumbledore owned a house or property other than what he had in his office at Hogwarts.
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Phelim Mcintyre - May 17, 2006 5:52 am (#73 of 140)
Gemini 13, I agree. All we here about is what Harry inherited. Does this mean that we will only here about what Harry inherits from Dumbledore and not the rest of his possessions?
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Die Zimtzicke - May 17, 2006 9:41 am (#74 of 140)
I know that whether or not Sirius left anything to Lupin does not affect the story, but it would have only taken one sentence to clear that up and would have made many fans very happy. The same is true with Dumbledore. If we want to know, and it wouldn't take much time, why not do it? There are a LOT of things in these books that fans care passionately about, that we just do not get to see that could be handled with a sentence or two. I like to see things that pique my interest, not have them just left out. What will we say when book seven comes out if Dumbledore's will isn't even mentioned at all? We'll feel kind of silly, won't we? I know I will.
That's why I think they are good books, but not great books. That kind of thing happens all the time in them.
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Soul Search - May 17, 2006 12:01 pm (#75 of 140)
Die Zimtzicke,
"That's why I think they are good books, but not great books. That kind of thing happens all the time in them."
I think you are being overcritical. How many books have been analyzed and nit-picked as much as the HP series?
I am an avid reader, and can't think of any series that is better planned and executed.
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Choices - May 17, 2006 12:16 pm (#76 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I agree Soul Search. JKR could not possibly satisfy every single reader with all the details they would want. There are lots of backstories I would like to have, but I know I will never get them. It would take JKR the rest of this lifetime and into the next to give every reader every detail they would like on every character. I think she has done an amazing job of planning this series and fleshing out her storyline. It boggles my mind to even think about keeping all the facts and details straight and making it all work together. **Needs to take aspirin just comtemplating it all**
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Die Zimtzicke - May 17, 2006 10:05 pm (#77 of 140)
It's fairly well planned. I'll concede that. We will have to agree to disagree on whether it was well-executed.
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Potter Ace - May 18, 2006 10:15 am (#78 of 140)
I think that with the Internet and the ability to communicate almost instantly these days, HP is jut the first of many to be over analyzed Since most of those posting here seem to be a little older than the "normal" reader of the HP series, If either the Chronicles of Narnia or Lord of the Rings were released today, fresh, there would be a very similar web site devoted to that series. Those books were published over 50 years ago, and still remain a top seller in books stores and mentioned quite frequently on this site. We'll have to see how the ends are tied up in books 7 to really be able to answer whether or not it was well executed.
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haymoni - May 18, 2006 11:55 am (#79 of 140)
You know, I don't think I even CARE at this point if it is well-executed.
I just want to KNOW - and ask more questions - and KNOW - and ask more questions.
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journeymom - May 18, 2006 4:25 pm (#80 of 140)
"How many books have been analyzed and nit-picked as much as the HP series?" The LOTR has been analyzed as much, if not much more than HP. And it comes up superior, I think. And one reason for that is that Tolkein leaves a lot of detail out, doesn't even bring up how things work or who did what when or whatever. The result is that we can't nit-pick and find Marcus Flint type errors.
Rowling's books are vastly more detailed. She's created a complex universe.
Ah well, I'm off topic from Dumbledore's will.
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Laura W - May 21, 2006 1:43 am (#81 of 140)
Die Zimtzicke wrote, "I know that whether or not Sirius left anything to Lupin does not affect the story, but it would have only taken one sentence to clear that up and would have made many fans very happy"
Actually I believe Jo did clear that up. In HPB, chapter three, p. 51 (Raincoast), Dumbledore says, "But first of all I must tell you that Sirius's will was discovered a week ago and that he left you everything he owned."
Jo gave us her answer. "Everything he owned." She didn't leave out any information re how Sirus' possessions were divided. It's all there in black and white in the first level of canon (ie - the novel) of that one sentence. Harry got everything.
*If* Dumbledore leaves something or some things to Harry and leaves other things to other people - DD was a very loving person, so I could see that happening - in book seven, it will probably be written as listing the specific items that went to Harry. Which will imply that not "everything" went to him, even *if* she does not mention what else was given to others (which she might, by the way, and might be as interesting as what was left to Harry).
No, in all fairness, I think Jo was very clear and unambiguous when it came to all the particulars of Sirius' will.
Laura (slave to the literal)
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Die Zimtzicke - May 21, 2006 1:51 pm (#82 of 140)
I didn't mean it like that. I just mean that so many people were upset about how it was done and it could have been altered to make them happy without changing he plot. He COULD have left Lupin a little something and then it would have been over, instead of all of this speculation about why he did not. I truly hope if Dumbledore does have a will, we don't go through this again, with fan factions obsessing over how unfair it is, if it doesn't affect the storyline anyway.
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Deb Zawacki - May 21, 2006 2:41 pm (#83 of 140)
Who says that Dumbledore has to leave Harry anything physucal at all except maybe some written information or clues--maybe a couple of survival items-- he has a brother, he had trusted friends-- I'm not sure most of his "stuff" would be of use to Harry at this point in time.
personally I think that either McGonnagal has to resume his training or someone else is going to step up and guide him--on one side of the veil or the other.
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TomProffitt - Jun 3, 2006 5:57 am (#84 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
I believe that we will find Dumbledore's Last Will and Testament to be quite different from that of Sirius Black.
Sirius was a young man in a dangerous position. He knew that he risked death daily, but was not really prepared for the reality of it, I think. His Will was a token one done hastily and of a begrudged recognition that it was something he needed to do. So, rather than making careful consideration he just left everything to his godson and didn't worry about it any more. I rather doubt he registered it with probate, but probably had Remus or Dumbledore witness it and that was it (if he bothered to have it witnessed at all). Kind of like copying homework, really.
Dumbledore on the hand would create quite a different will than young Mr. Black. Albus has lived a long life filled with many friends, acquaintances, and responsibilities. He is a man of forethought and preparation. Albus not only remembered friends and family members in his will, but charitable organizations, business associates, and contacts on the Wizengamot. And Dumbledore would most definitely have had his will properly witnessed and registered.
There will be no "Albus left everything to ... " quote in book 7. Rest assured that Albus will have seen that Harry has been left everything he needs to complete his life's quest. And always remember that while we know that Harry will end Tom Riddle inside of one year's time, Harry and Dumbledore may have both been expecting a task that could take several years or even decades to complete.
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Gemini 13 - Jun 5, 2006 9:28 am (#85 of 140)
TomProffitt - Wouldn't it be interesting if the last book encompassed much more than a years time? So far we know whatever conflict there is will be resolved by June.. but what if this time it took until september or the following year? That could make things interesting. Anyways, you make a good point. I do believe Dumbledore will leave many people many things. Its possible that either there will be a line saying "Dumbledore left the following for you in his will" or there could be an actual will reading. We don't know exactly how wizards handle such things as of yet. Are there wizarding lawyers?
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dobbyiscool - Jun 6, 2006 9:34 am (#86 of 140)
Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
I don't know that the teachers do go home over the summer. In the fifth book, I think, doesn't Trelawney say that Hogwarts has been her home for fifteen years (or something like that... my books are downstairs and I am very tired, so I'm writing this from memory). Of course, she could go home for the summer and just consider Hogwarts her real home because she is there most of the year. Anyway, as DD was there most (if not all) of the year, and was definitely living at Hogwarts at the time of his death (it was during the school year), all (or most) of his stuff is probably at Hogwarts, where he'd have easy access to it.
Did anyone see the Will and Grace finally? What Gemini 13 said about the final book encompassing multiple years reminded me of that, because the last episode of Will & Grace took place over a span of about twenty years. That would be cool to see how the characters in HP are as adults.
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wynnleaf - Jun 6, 2006 12:40 pm (#87 of 140)
I hope that DD doesn't leave money to Harry. Harry's got 2 fortunes already (at least, I always thought the Potter and Black estates were fortunes).
I agree that Black's will was probably one done very quickly. Or it could have been one completed some time back when he became a godfather, simply and briefly leaving all to his godson. I doubt if it was something he spent a lot of time considering, or he'd have probably left some to Lupin. It would be much easier on Lupin's pride, I'd think, to leave him money in a will than to trust that Harry would help Lupin out later, and that Lupin would accept Harry's help, which is I think doubtful.
But back to DD. Has anyone wondered if DD had some sort of family home somewhere? Or perhaps a more secret residence? He's often going off from Hogwarts and I never thought he was staying in London near the MOM. And during OOTP, I didn't get the impression that he'd gone to stay at Grimmauld Place when he had to leave Hogwarts. Anyway, I have often wondered if he had a residence somewhere and that perhaps that would come up after HBP, perhaps in his will.
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Pinky Prime - Jun 6, 2006 2:32 pm (#88 of 140)
I forgot about this section..
This post is better left here
Consider, DD bequeathing a bottle to Harry for instructions just in case anything happened to him. A bottle not unlike prophesy or pensive memory. He can then be filled in on the rest of the clues he needs to start on his quest. Like Jarel did to his son in Superman. Harry may uncover or discover how he can use those latent abilities to his advantage. DD knew that Harry's education was incomplete and as a safeguard (being the excellent planner he was) would not have left Harry unprepared to face LV. Tools for the job!
wynnleaf you make an excellent point DD already was forced for all they know to leave Hogwarts twice, meaning he may well have other homes and hiding places. IMO Dumbledore may have had his own unplottable Chamber of Secrets within Hogwarts.
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TomProffitt - Jun 6, 2006 2:37 pm (#89 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
Pinky Prime, I think Dumbledore gave Harry all of the clues he is going to get in HBP. Or, at least all the clues he'll get from Dumbledore. It was really the main point of the whole book.
I predict, with out feeling like I'm going out on a limb, that Harry will be bequeathed no clues at all from Dumbledore. He may receive magical items to aid him, such as Gryffindor's Sword, but no notes, letters, books, or memories.
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dobbyiscool - Jun 7, 2006 9:40 am (#90 of 140)
Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
Is Gryffendor's Sword magical? I agree with TomProffitt, Dumbledore gave Harry everything he thought he would need, knowing he (DD) was doing something dangerous and might not survive.
I think it would be cool if there were memories that DD never showed Harry. Maybe even ones that have nothing to do with his search, but about his parents, or something.
I doubt that DD truely left Hogwarts like he was forced to. I mean he was sure there pretty darn quick when Harry went into the CoS, and Umbrige was unable to get into his office while he was away. He could very well have been in his office, but we don't know.
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Choices - Jun 7, 2006 9:56 am (#91 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Dobby - "Is Gryffendor's Sword magical?"
We have not seen it do anything magical other than to drop onto Harry's head when he put the Sorting Hat on. When Harry used it to kill the basilisk he appeared to wield it in a perfectly normal way. Since that time, it has resided in a glass case in Dumbledore's office and we have seen it do nothing magical. Perhaps there are things we still do not know about the sword and it will prove to have magical abilities.
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TomProffitt - Jun 7, 2006 10:04 am (#92 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
I used the sword as my example, not because I thought it had magical properties, but because I needed an example of an item exclusive to the wizarding world which could be of aid to Harry on his mission. That kind of thing is what I expect Harry to be willed by Dumbledore. I feel pretty confident that we've gotten all of the "knowledge" from DD we're going to get, unless there is something in the denouement.
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Soul Mate for Sirius - Jun 7, 2006 10:49 am (#93 of 140)
Counting the days until 6/20/09....
I doubt that DD truely left Hogwarts like he was forced to. I mean he was sure there pretty darn quick when Harry went into the CoS, and Umbrige was unable to get into his office while he was away. He could very well have been in his office, but we don't know. - dobbyiscool
I think that perhaps he was in the lake...
Tom-I agree that we've probably gotten all the Horcrux knowledge we're going to get out of DD. I also think that any more aid from him on this hunt will not come from something he left Harry in his will, but perhaps from his portrait now hanging in the Headmaster's Office.
-Jenn
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TomProffitt - Jun 7, 2006 10:54 am (#94 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
I don't think that there will be any information of value to come from the portrait. I think DD would have foreseen the possibility of Death Eaters attempting to acquire information from the portrait and would have intentionally limited what knowledge would go into it.
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dobbyiscool - Jun 7, 2006 1:24 pm (#95 of 140)
Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
I don't know how, but I'd forgotten about the DIGS theory.
Can't a portrait choose to be quite? What could they possibly do to a painting to make it talk? At worst, the DE could destroy the painting, but that wouldn't do them any good anyway.
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TomProffitt - Jun 7, 2006 1:52 pm (#96 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
I think a portrait would be a lot easier to fool with magic than a real person, dobbyiscool. I guess we've kind of left the will chat and moved onto something else with this line of conversation, even though it started on topic.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 8, 2006 2:18 am (#97 of 140)
Possibly the portrait is only bound to serve the current headteacher. If you are not head of Hogwarts the portraits do not have to deal with you in anyway. So there is not much a Death Eater could do to the portrait to make it talk. After all DD could just toddle off to another picture for safety.
I think there is something coming though for Harry from DD, even just pensive memories about the ring and how it was destroyed. Throughout HbP Dumbledore would put off telling the story about his hand until later. I believe this was until after the memory about Horcruxes had been got from Slughorn. Without the death of Dumbledore he may have told Harry that night with the attempt to destroy the locket. I just have a feeling this one memory may be important, partly because I don't wont to see either Ron or Hermione die and unless they know what protects the Horcrux then it may cost them more than a hand.
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TomProffitt - Jun 8, 2006 5:51 am (#98 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
"Throughout HbP Dumbledore would put off telling the story about his hand until later." --- Phelim Mcintyre
I believe we've heard all of that story we're going to hear. We received the important details, the ring was a horcrux, the abilities of DD & Snape save DD's life. While we want to know more, we don't need to know more. Unless of course the wound was a mortal one and death was only delayed as some have theorized.
I stand by my guns, no knowledge in the Will for Harry.
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Choices - Jun 8, 2006 9:39 am (#99 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Dumbledore told Harry that he would tell him about his hand and what happened, so I'd bet galleons we will hear about it.
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Gemini 13 - Jun 8, 2006 10:11 am (#100 of 140)
Choices - I agree with you. Dumbledore has always been a man of his word and I believe this will extend beyond his death.
Dobbys Socks: I say it would be fishy if it was infact Dumbledores watch. Why suddenly would Dumbledore give up his watch to Ron? He doesn't have a close relationship with Ron that he does with Harry. Also, I'm sure someone would see it and go "hey, isn't that Dumbledore's watch?". I mean its possible that a watch like that is common so no one would notice, but it would be atleast 16 years old, and as far as I know, we don't know much about wizard fashion trends. So to sum it all up, I think if it was indeed Dumbledores watch, someone would notice... AND if it was Dumbledores watch someone would ask "Why did he give it up just a couple months before his death?"
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journeymom - Apr 25, 2006 9:12 am (#52 of 140)
To be a hint to Ron (and Harry by extension) that Dumbledore knew the gig was up. Ron might connect the dots sometime in Book 7. This would corroborate any other evidence that Dd planned or anticipated his own death.
Ron was coming into his own in HBP. He may not have had a close relationship with Dd like Harry, but Dd probably had something to do with making Ron a prefect. It's not impossible to think Dd would give Ron a really cool thing like his watch.
Is it possible the watch is a horcrux? That's probably stretching it.
That wasn't that last time we'll see that watch.
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TheSaint - Apr 25, 2006 9:15 pm (#53 of 140)
There is that theory that Arthur's brother's are Albus and Aberforth. Would be most entertaining if they were the heirs of Gryffindor. Sword goes to the Weasleys!
One of my favorite theories.
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journeymom - Apr 26, 2006 9:40 am (#54 of 140)
Heh! I like that idea! They'd be step brothers? Or, no, I guess it would be half brothers. Same mother, different fathers.
We don't see Dumbledores on the Black family tree, but we do see Weasleys.
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Choices - Apr 26, 2006 11:10 am (#55 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
"There is that theory that Arthur's brother's are Albus and Aberforth."
There's nothing like having your kids a 100 years apart. Poor Mrs. Dumbledore-Weasley. LOL
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haymoni - Apr 26, 2006 1:00 pm (#56 of 140)
I'm guessing we would have heard from Ron that his uncle was Dumbledore.
Unless he doesn't know....
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Phelim Mcintyre - Apr 27, 2006 5:44 am (#57 of 140)
May be a generation or more back, like Great-uncle Albus.
Actually journeymoon we don't see the Weasleys on the tapestry. Sirius mentions being related to Arthur but tells Harry not to bother finding him as he isn't on there. As such there is no way Mrs Black would have let DD be on there.
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Die Zimtzicke - May 8, 2006 3:54 pm (#58 of 140)
I think Aberforth is going to be important, so I do think Dumbledore's personal effects will mostly go to him. I think Harry is going to spend some time with Aberforth in the last book. I think a lot of the things in Dumbledore's office will go along with the office...to future headmasters and mistresses.
Fawkes is not a possesion to me, he's a magical creature who stayed with Dumbledore out of loyalty and love. I think, however, that he might well go to Harry next, because he has a connection with Harry, who is also Dumbledore's man, and also because Harry is connected to Fawkes by the phoenix tears in his system that saved his life in the CoS.
I have no high hopes though that Dumbledore's will is going to be interesting, because I really expected Sirius to leave something to Lupin, the last loyal surviving Maruader, when he died, and as far as we know he did not.
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Laura W - May 9, 2006 3:14 am (#59 of 140)
Holy Merlin, I never thought of that! Lupin and Sirius were not as close as Sirius was to James, but they still hung out together throughout their seven years of school and Lupin called the other three Marauders his only friends. Sirius thought highly enough of his friendship with Remus to work on turning himself into an Animagus - very difficult magic - so the wolf would have company in the Shrieking Shack. Etc, etc.
Yet, knowing how impoverished Lupin was because that toad Umbridge (with my apologies to toads everywhere) passed that law which doesn't allow employers to hire werewolves, Sirius Black left him nothing. In HBP, Dumbledore *does* inform Harry that his godfather left everything to him: house, gold, Hippogriff and all.
Gee, Harry already has a small fortune in the bank - which I do not begrudge him at all -, so you'd think Sirius would have given *something* to his friend Remus so that he could eat properly and buy some decent robes and have some security for the remainder of his life.
Anyway, I know this thread is about Dumbledore's will, so please continue ...
Laura
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freshwater - May 11, 2006 11:36 am (#60 of 140)
Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
Laura W., your "apologies to toads everywhere" made me LOL!
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Anna L. Black - May 12, 2006 6:38 am (#61 of 140)
"I think, however, that he might well go to Harry next, because he has a connection with Harry, who is also Dumbledore's man, and also because Harry is connected to Fawkes by the phoenix tears in his system that saved his life in the CoS." - Die Zimtzicke
Well, I don't know if phoenix tears stay in your system after healing your wounds, but Harry is definitely connected to Fawkes through the feather in his wand!
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journeymom - May 12, 2006 9:22 am (#62 of 140)
1) It would have made more sense to us and have been tidier if Sirius willed his stuff to Lupin. But maybe it's a matter of pride. Maybe Sirius knew Remus would be self-conscious about being the recipient that way. Also, it's his obligation as Harry's godfather.
2) Back on the extremely unlikely but entertaining Dd as Arthur's step brother idea, Arcturus and Lysandra Black's daughter, Cedrella, married Septimus Weasley. But that's not from the tapestry, it's from the charity auction family tree.
Carry on!
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Laura W - May 13, 2006 7:31 am (#63 of 140)
" It would have made more sense to us and have been tidier if Sirius willed his stuff to Lupin."
Not all of it, journeymom. I wasn't suggesting that. *Of course* the majority of Sirius' stuff would and should go to Harry. Both because Harry is his godson and because of Sirius' relationship with Harry's parents (especially James). But Sirius had quite an accumulation of gold, goblets, property, etc. whether he wanted it or not: the Black family fortune. Just a small part of that could have been willed to his good mate, Remus Lupin. Not as charity, but just as a recognition of their friendship which started in school and continued throughout their adult lives.
(ME rewriting HBP, chapter three, p. 51, Raincoast: Dumbledore speaking to Harry, "But first of all I must tell you that Sirius's will was discovered a week ago and that he left you most of what he owned, with the exception of one hundred Galleons which he left to Remus Lupin." Harry was shocked by Dumbledore's news but was also pleased that Lupin would be taken care of.")
And I tell people I *don't* write fiction. (Ha, ha.) Ok, now back to the real book ...
You know what's REALLY scary, Anna L. Black? If Harry is definitely connected to Fawkes through the feather in his wand, so is Voldemort. (shudder) No, I think the real connection there is Harry's loyalty to DD. Which is why Fawkes came to him in the Chamber in CoS (ie - when 12-year-old Harry told the young Tom Riddle that he (TR) was *not* the greatest wizard; that DD was.)
Laura
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Die Zimtzicke - May 13, 2006 7:29 pm (#64 of 140)
I think Harry is connected to Fawkes more by the fact that Harry has his tears in system. That trumps the feathers. Fawkes saved Harry's life. I really wish Fawkes would go to Harry now. Alas, however, I doubt if he is a possession to be willed to anyone. Fawkes would have to choose to do that, I think.
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Solitaire - May 14, 2006 10:14 am (#65 of 140)
you'd think Sirius would have given *something* to his friend Remus
I think Sirius knew enough of Harry's generous nature to know that he would find some honorable and acceptable way to help Remus, just as he found an unobtrusive way for Ron to receive new dress robes. Harry may have plenty of gold now, but he remembers what it was like to live on the Dursleys' crumbs and wear the Dud's hand-me-downs. Perhaps Sirius believed Harry would ask Remus to come and live at GP, if Harry is alone when he finally takes up residence ... if he ever does.
Solitaire
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Deb Zawacki - May 14, 2006 2:50 pm (#66 of 140)
I'm not sure of my phoenix lore--I read a book as a child called David and the Phoenix--and maybe a sequel-- I don't know if a phoenix becomes attached to one person for as long as they need it to be--and then when they get the strength couage or whatever, it moves on...
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Die Zimtzicke - May 15, 2006 4:05 pm (#67 of 140)
Remus has a home. (Probably a family home.) Sirius went to it to hide out at the end of GoF. He doesn't need a home as I see it. He needs a job, or at least some money. I still think it was strange that Sirius, who was supposedly so close to him, didn't think to give him some at some point. If he had willed it to him, Remus wouldn't have been in a positon to argue with Sirius about it.
But we are getting dreadfully off-topic. Back to Dumbledore...what do we know for sure he owns outright on his own, that doesn't belong to Hogwarts? Maybe after living at the school for so long, his personal possessions are few, since a lot of his things he uses are school supplied or school owned.
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haymoni - May 16, 2006 7:08 am (#68 of 140)
Maybe he did leave something to Remus.
Dumbledore's comments were directed to Harry. He may not have thought it necessary to list the entire contents of Sirius's will.
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Gemini 13 - May 16, 2006 7:24 am (#69 of 140)
As far as Sirius will... whether he willed anything to Lupin does not impact the story at all. Whatever he left for Harry was important to the story. Basically, it shouldn't make a difference to us because it doesn't impact the story in any way... and maybe JKR expected us to assume he left other people things, or maybe it was meant for Harry to get everything :shrugs:
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Nathan Zimmermann - May 16, 2006 5:13 pm (#70 of 140)
Where is Dumbledore likely to have stored his will?
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virginiaelizabeth - May 16, 2006 5:58 pm (#71 of 140)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
Maybe he left it as a memory, so Harry can veiw it in the pensieve, I also think that Dumbledore will leave more memories to harry, possibly about the remaining horcruxes.
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Choices - May 16, 2006 7:02 pm (#72 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I remember somewhere in the books that Harry wanted to contact Dumbledore during the summer and he realized that he had no clue where Dumbledore went for sunmer vacation. It was never mentioned that I can recall that Dumbledore owned a house or property other than what he had in his office at Hogwarts.
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Phelim Mcintyre - May 17, 2006 5:52 am (#73 of 140)
Gemini 13, I agree. All we here about is what Harry inherited. Does this mean that we will only here about what Harry inherits from Dumbledore and not the rest of his possessions?
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Die Zimtzicke - May 17, 2006 9:41 am (#74 of 140)
I know that whether or not Sirius left anything to Lupin does not affect the story, but it would have only taken one sentence to clear that up and would have made many fans very happy. The same is true with Dumbledore. If we want to know, and it wouldn't take much time, why not do it? There are a LOT of things in these books that fans care passionately about, that we just do not get to see that could be handled with a sentence or two. I like to see things that pique my interest, not have them just left out. What will we say when book seven comes out if Dumbledore's will isn't even mentioned at all? We'll feel kind of silly, won't we? I know I will.
That's why I think they are good books, but not great books. That kind of thing happens all the time in them.
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Soul Search - May 17, 2006 12:01 pm (#75 of 140)
Die Zimtzicke,
"That's why I think they are good books, but not great books. That kind of thing happens all the time in them."
I think you are being overcritical. How many books have been analyzed and nit-picked as much as the HP series?
I am an avid reader, and can't think of any series that is better planned and executed.
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Choices - May 17, 2006 12:16 pm (#76 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I agree Soul Search. JKR could not possibly satisfy every single reader with all the details they would want. There are lots of backstories I would like to have, but I know I will never get them. It would take JKR the rest of this lifetime and into the next to give every reader every detail they would like on every character. I think she has done an amazing job of planning this series and fleshing out her storyline. It boggles my mind to even think about keeping all the facts and details straight and making it all work together. **Needs to take aspirin just comtemplating it all**
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Die Zimtzicke - May 17, 2006 10:05 pm (#77 of 140)
It's fairly well planned. I'll concede that. We will have to agree to disagree on whether it was well-executed.
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Potter Ace - May 18, 2006 10:15 am (#78 of 140)
I think that with the Internet and the ability to communicate almost instantly these days, HP is jut the first of many to be over analyzed Since most of those posting here seem to be a little older than the "normal" reader of the HP series, If either the Chronicles of Narnia or Lord of the Rings were released today, fresh, there would be a very similar web site devoted to that series. Those books were published over 50 years ago, and still remain a top seller in books stores and mentioned quite frequently on this site. We'll have to see how the ends are tied up in books 7 to really be able to answer whether or not it was well executed.
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haymoni - May 18, 2006 11:55 am (#79 of 140)
You know, I don't think I even CARE at this point if it is well-executed.
I just want to KNOW - and ask more questions - and KNOW - and ask more questions.
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journeymom - May 18, 2006 4:25 pm (#80 of 140)
"How many books have been analyzed and nit-picked as much as the HP series?" The LOTR has been analyzed as much, if not much more than HP. And it comes up superior, I think. And one reason for that is that Tolkein leaves a lot of detail out, doesn't even bring up how things work or who did what when or whatever. The result is that we can't nit-pick and find Marcus Flint type errors.
Rowling's books are vastly more detailed. She's created a complex universe.
Ah well, I'm off topic from Dumbledore's will.
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Laura W - May 21, 2006 1:43 am (#81 of 140)
Die Zimtzicke wrote, "I know that whether or not Sirius left anything to Lupin does not affect the story, but it would have only taken one sentence to clear that up and would have made many fans very happy"
Actually I believe Jo did clear that up. In HPB, chapter three, p. 51 (Raincoast), Dumbledore says, "But first of all I must tell you that Sirius's will was discovered a week ago and that he left you everything he owned."
Jo gave us her answer. "Everything he owned." She didn't leave out any information re how Sirus' possessions were divided. It's all there in black and white in the first level of canon (ie - the novel) of that one sentence. Harry got everything.
*If* Dumbledore leaves something or some things to Harry and leaves other things to other people - DD was a very loving person, so I could see that happening - in book seven, it will probably be written as listing the specific items that went to Harry. Which will imply that not "everything" went to him, even *if* she does not mention what else was given to others (which she might, by the way, and might be as interesting as what was left to Harry).
No, in all fairness, I think Jo was very clear and unambiguous when it came to all the particulars of Sirius' will.
Laura (slave to the literal)
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Die Zimtzicke - May 21, 2006 1:51 pm (#82 of 140)
I didn't mean it like that. I just mean that so many people were upset about how it was done and it could have been altered to make them happy without changing he plot. He COULD have left Lupin a little something and then it would have been over, instead of all of this speculation about why he did not. I truly hope if Dumbledore does have a will, we don't go through this again, with fan factions obsessing over how unfair it is, if it doesn't affect the storyline anyway.
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Deb Zawacki - May 21, 2006 2:41 pm (#83 of 140)
Who says that Dumbledore has to leave Harry anything physucal at all except maybe some written information or clues--maybe a couple of survival items-- he has a brother, he had trusted friends-- I'm not sure most of his "stuff" would be of use to Harry at this point in time.
personally I think that either McGonnagal has to resume his training or someone else is going to step up and guide him--on one side of the veil or the other.
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TomProffitt - Jun 3, 2006 5:57 am (#84 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
I believe that we will find Dumbledore's Last Will and Testament to be quite different from that of Sirius Black.
Sirius was a young man in a dangerous position. He knew that he risked death daily, but was not really prepared for the reality of it, I think. His Will was a token one done hastily and of a begrudged recognition that it was something he needed to do. So, rather than making careful consideration he just left everything to his godson and didn't worry about it any more. I rather doubt he registered it with probate, but probably had Remus or Dumbledore witness it and that was it (if he bothered to have it witnessed at all). Kind of like copying homework, really.
Dumbledore on the hand would create quite a different will than young Mr. Black. Albus has lived a long life filled with many friends, acquaintances, and responsibilities. He is a man of forethought and preparation. Albus not only remembered friends and family members in his will, but charitable organizations, business associates, and contacts on the Wizengamot. And Dumbledore would most definitely have had his will properly witnessed and registered.
There will be no "Albus left everything to ... " quote in book 7. Rest assured that Albus will have seen that Harry has been left everything he needs to complete his life's quest. And always remember that while we know that Harry will end Tom Riddle inside of one year's time, Harry and Dumbledore may have both been expecting a task that could take several years or even decades to complete.
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Gemini 13 - Jun 5, 2006 9:28 am (#85 of 140)
TomProffitt - Wouldn't it be interesting if the last book encompassed much more than a years time? So far we know whatever conflict there is will be resolved by June.. but what if this time it took until september or the following year? That could make things interesting. Anyways, you make a good point. I do believe Dumbledore will leave many people many things. Its possible that either there will be a line saying "Dumbledore left the following for you in his will" or there could be an actual will reading. We don't know exactly how wizards handle such things as of yet. Are there wizarding lawyers?
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dobbyiscool - Jun 6, 2006 9:34 am (#86 of 140)
Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
I don't know that the teachers do go home over the summer. In the fifth book, I think, doesn't Trelawney say that Hogwarts has been her home for fifteen years (or something like that... my books are downstairs and I am very tired, so I'm writing this from memory). Of course, she could go home for the summer and just consider Hogwarts her real home because she is there most of the year. Anyway, as DD was there most (if not all) of the year, and was definitely living at Hogwarts at the time of his death (it was during the school year), all (or most) of his stuff is probably at Hogwarts, where he'd have easy access to it.
Did anyone see the Will and Grace finally? What Gemini 13 said about the final book encompassing multiple years reminded me of that, because the last episode of Will & Grace took place over a span of about twenty years. That would be cool to see how the characters in HP are as adults.
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wynnleaf - Jun 6, 2006 12:40 pm (#87 of 140)
I hope that DD doesn't leave money to Harry. Harry's got 2 fortunes already (at least, I always thought the Potter and Black estates were fortunes).
I agree that Black's will was probably one done very quickly. Or it could have been one completed some time back when he became a godfather, simply and briefly leaving all to his godson. I doubt if it was something he spent a lot of time considering, or he'd have probably left some to Lupin. It would be much easier on Lupin's pride, I'd think, to leave him money in a will than to trust that Harry would help Lupin out later, and that Lupin would accept Harry's help, which is I think doubtful.
But back to DD. Has anyone wondered if DD had some sort of family home somewhere? Or perhaps a more secret residence? He's often going off from Hogwarts and I never thought he was staying in London near the MOM. And during OOTP, I didn't get the impression that he'd gone to stay at Grimmauld Place when he had to leave Hogwarts. Anyway, I have often wondered if he had a residence somewhere and that perhaps that would come up after HBP, perhaps in his will.
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Pinky Prime - Jun 6, 2006 2:32 pm (#88 of 140)
I forgot about this section..
This post is better left here
Consider, DD bequeathing a bottle to Harry for instructions just in case anything happened to him. A bottle not unlike prophesy or pensive memory. He can then be filled in on the rest of the clues he needs to start on his quest. Like Jarel did to his son in Superman. Harry may uncover or discover how he can use those latent abilities to his advantage. DD knew that Harry's education was incomplete and as a safeguard (being the excellent planner he was) would not have left Harry unprepared to face LV. Tools for the job!
wynnleaf you make an excellent point DD already was forced for all they know to leave Hogwarts twice, meaning he may well have other homes and hiding places. IMO Dumbledore may have had his own unplottable Chamber of Secrets within Hogwarts.
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TomProffitt - Jun 6, 2006 2:37 pm (#89 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
Pinky Prime, I think Dumbledore gave Harry all of the clues he is going to get in HBP. Or, at least all the clues he'll get from Dumbledore. It was really the main point of the whole book.
I predict, with out feeling like I'm going out on a limb, that Harry will be bequeathed no clues at all from Dumbledore. He may receive magical items to aid him, such as Gryffindor's Sword, but no notes, letters, books, or memories.
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dobbyiscool - Jun 7, 2006 9:40 am (#90 of 140)
Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
Is Gryffendor's Sword magical? I agree with TomProffitt, Dumbledore gave Harry everything he thought he would need, knowing he (DD) was doing something dangerous and might not survive.
I think it would be cool if there were memories that DD never showed Harry. Maybe even ones that have nothing to do with his search, but about his parents, or something.
I doubt that DD truely left Hogwarts like he was forced to. I mean he was sure there pretty darn quick when Harry went into the CoS, and Umbrige was unable to get into his office while he was away. He could very well have been in his office, but we don't know.
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Choices - Jun 7, 2006 9:56 am (#91 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Dobby - "Is Gryffendor's Sword magical?"
We have not seen it do anything magical other than to drop onto Harry's head when he put the Sorting Hat on. When Harry used it to kill the basilisk he appeared to wield it in a perfectly normal way. Since that time, it has resided in a glass case in Dumbledore's office and we have seen it do nothing magical. Perhaps there are things we still do not know about the sword and it will prove to have magical abilities.
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TomProffitt - Jun 7, 2006 10:04 am (#92 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
I used the sword as my example, not because I thought it had magical properties, but because I needed an example of an item exclusive to the wizarding world which could be of aid to Harry on his mission. That kind of thing is what I expect Harry to be willed by Dumbledore. I feel pretty confident that we've gotten all of the "knowledge" from DD we're going to get, unless there is something in the denouement.
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Soul Mate for Sirius - Jun 7, 2006 10:49 am (#93 of 140)
Counting the days until 6/20/09....
I doubt that DD truely left Hogwarts like he was forced to. I mean he was sure there pretty darn quick when Harry went into the CoS, and Umbrige was unable to get into his office while he was away. He could very well have been in his office, but we don't know. - dobbyiscool
I think that perhaps he was in the lake...
Tom-I agree that we've probably gotten all the Horcrux knowledge we're going to get out of DD. I also think that any more aid from him on this hunt will not come from something he left Harry in his will, but perhaps from his portrait now hanging in the Headmaster's Office.
-Jenn
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TomProffitt - Jun 7, 2006 10:54 am (#94 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
I don't think that there will be any information of value to come from the portrait. I think DD would have foreseen the possibility of Death Eaters attempting to acquire information from the portrait and would have intentionally limited what knowledge would go into it.
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dobbyiscool - Jun 7, 2006 1:24 pm (#95 of 140)
Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
I don't know how, but I'd forgotten about the DIGS theory.
Can't a portrait choose to be quite? What could they possibly do to a painting to make it talk? At worst, the DE could destroy the painting, but that wouldn't do them any good anyway.
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TomProffitt - Jun 7, 2006 1:52 pm (#96 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
I think a portrait would be a lot easier to fool with magic than a real person, dobbyiscool. I guess we've kind of left the will chat and moved onto something else with this line of conversation, even though it started on topic.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 8, 2006 2:18 am (#97 of 140)
Possibly the portrait is only bound to serve the current headteacher. If you are not head of Hogwarts the portraits do not have to deal with you in anyway. So there is not much a Death Eater could do to the portrait to make it talk. After all DD could just toddle off to another picture for safety.
I think there is something coming though for Harry from DD, even just pensive memories about the ring and how it was destroyed. Throughout HbP Dumbledore would put off telling the story about his hand until later. I believe this was until after the memory about Horcruxes had been got from Slughorn. Without the death of Dumbledore he may have told Harry that night with the attempt to destroy the locket. I just have a feeling this one memory may be important, partly because I don't wont to see either Ron or Hermione die and unless they know what protects the Horcrux then it may cost them more than a hand.
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TomProffitt - Jun 8, 2006 5:51 am (#98 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
"Throughout HbP Dumbledore would put off telling the story about his hand until later." --- Phelim Mcintyre
I believe we've heard all of that story we're going to hear. We received the important details, the ring was a horcrux, the abilities of DD & Snape save DD's life. While we want to know more, we don't need to know more. Unless of course the wound was a mortal one and death was only delayed as some have theorized.
I stand by my guns, no knowledge in the Will for Harry.
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Choices - Jun 8, 2006 9:39 am (#99 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Dumbledore told Harry that he would tell him about his hand and what happened, so I'd bet galleons we will hear about it.
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Gemini 13 - Jun 8, 2006 10:11 am (#100 of 140)
Choices - I agree with you. Dumbledore has always been a man of his word and I believe this will extend beyond his death.
Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Dumbledore's Will (Post 101 to 140)
Elanor Sat May 28, 2011 2:52 am
haymoni - Jun 8, 2006 10:12 am (#101 of 140)
I can't believe he didn't tell SOMEBODY about his hand.
I can't imagine Minerva not demanding some sort of answer as to why his hand was so badly injured.
He may not have gone into the whole horcrux thing, but he could have said SOMETHING.
On the other hand (sorry!) if he truly wanted to keep the horcrux thing a secret, he may have been waiting to tell Harry how it happened, hence his comment about it being a thrilling tale and him wanting to do it justice. He finally had an audience for his story.
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Pinky Prime - Jun 8, 2006 1:27 pm (#102 of 140)
"Talk to the Hand" The Hand of Gory?. No, I'm just being silly.
I wonder if DD has more than one portrait to slip in and out of. The one at Hogwarts seems to be owned by the school rather than by DD himself. But that doesn't mean that it is the only one. Finnias Nigelas Black (Spelling?) had two. The portrait in the Muggle Prime Minister's office had two the other supposedly at the MoM. St. Mungos had a connection to a portrait at Hogwarts. Seems to me if there were another portrait it would be bequeathed to Harry. Making it the one rather than the Hogwarts Portrait of DD.
Or better yet maybe all the Hogwarts portraits have links like the Floo Network and the Castles intra-personal ones.
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TomProffitt - Jun 8, 2006 4:41 pm (#103 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
"I can't believe he didn't tell SOMEBODY about his hand." --- haymoni
I guess what I'm saying is that I think the brief story we (and Harry) received was the story. I guess I'll have to re-read to be certain, but that's the impression I got from listening to the CDs.
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Choices - Jun 8, 2006 6:40 pm (#104 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
No, Dumbledore says it is quite a thrilling story and he will tell it to Harry when he has time to do it justice. (Horace Slughorn chapter of HBP) That says to me that it is not a short story and that Harry will hear it at some point.
I would also be willing to bet that Snape possibly heard the story since he was the one who treated Dumbledore for the injury to his hand.
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haymoni - Jun 9, 2006 6:41 am (#105 of 140)
But how would that conversation have gone?
"Headmaster! What happened to your hand?"
"Don't fuss over me, Severus. I merely injured it while playing with some jewelry. Alas, it was a cursed ring. However was I to know???""
Did Dumbledore tell Severus about the Horcrux?
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wynnleaf - Jun 9, 2006 7:40 am (#106 of 140)
I find it very hard to believe that Snape didn't know about what happened to DD's hand, when he was called upon by DD to care to it.
But even if Snape knows the story behind DD's hand, I don't think Harry would accept hearing the story from Snape unless he'd already had some sort of proof of Snape's loyalty. Since that's a part of what we wonder about DD leaving for Harry.... Well, in other words, I'm saying that getting the ring story from Snape is still probably contingent on DD somehow getting info to Harry about proof of Snape's loyalty. So DD would still have to "leave" info for Harry in some form. Of course, it doesn't have to be in a will.
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Choices - Jun 9, 2006 9:21 am (#107 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think for Snape to properly treat the injury to Dumbledore's hand, he has to know exactly what caused it.
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haymoni - Jun 9, 2006 10:07 am (#108 of 140)
So Snape knows about the Horcruxes?
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wynnleaf - Jun 9, 2006 11:14 am (#109 of 140)
Even if DD didn't tell him, he'd be bound to figure it out. After all, from various things DD said in HBP, Snape evidently has quite a huge knowledge of Dark Arts. It's almost certainly greater than Slughorn. And Snape has had to deal with LV for years. He's bound to have figured it out.
And if Snape figured it out and was on the "good" side, he'd almost certainly talk to DD about the possibility or probability of LV using horcruxes. So whoever knew about LV and horcruxes first -- DD or Snape -- it makes no difference. They'd have certainly discussed the horcruxes. So DD would have no reason to keep the ring horcrux a secret from Snape.
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Magic Words - Jun 9, 2006 11:15 am (#110 of 140)
I bet he knows. I never put it together that he might be the one to tell Harry the story, but that could be right.
I would be surprised if DD left Harry information, in any form, that proved Snape's loyalty. If he refused to tell Harry during his life, for whatever reason, I don't think he would set up a way to tell Harry once he died. Anyway, this is something Harry and Snape have to work out on their own.
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Gemini 13 - Jun 9, 2006 11:47 am (#111 of 140)
I never thought about it until, but it seems very likely Snape knows about the Horcruxes. That is very interesting information.
Wouldn't it be interesting to find out that Snape took an unbreakable Vow to Dumbledore saying he would do whatever it takes to help defeat Voldemort? That would be a good reason Dumbledore may trust Snape.
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TomProffitt - Jun 9, 2006 11:52 am (#112 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
"I would be surprised if DD left Harry information, in any form, that proved Snape's loyalty." --- Magic Words
From what I understand of Dumbledore's personality I expect that it was Albus's preference that Severus be the one to take care of the loyalty issue with the other members of the Order. I don't think Dumbledore enjoyed telling the others "I trust him, that should be good enough for you." I think Severus and Dumbledore have had more than one little chat about the Potion Master coming clean with the other members of the Order.
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Mrs. D. - Jun 10, 2006 8:21 am (#113 of 140)
So what happens if Snape came forward to DD before Voldemort tried to kill Harry the first time (or was found out) and he made an Unbreakable Vow to DD to help destroy LV (DD would have worded it with extreme diligence I'm sure) and then makes another vow that conflicts with the first one? I am not saying his Vow to Narcissa does that, just pondering what would happen if the entire situation had happened. Would it be possible?
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wynnleaf - Jun 10, 2006 11:22 am (#114 of 140)
I doubt if Snape was bound to follow DD through an unbreakable Vow. DD says over and over that he "trusts" Snape. Trust, to me, just doesn't imply someone being compelled by a Vow to be loyal.
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Mrs. D. - Jun 10, 2006 3:29 pm (#115 of 140)
Thus the "if". I don't actually think DD did require a vow but am wondering what would happen should one be made and then another contradictory to the first was tried to be made.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jun 10, 2006 4:56 pm (#116 of 140)
The discussion of late is interesting, but I don't know what it has to do with Dumbledore's will. Have we exhausted that subject?
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TomProffitt - Jun 10, 2006 4:58 pm (#117 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
We digressed, apparently, from the topic as we debated whether or not DD would leave Harry knowledge in his will.
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Solitaire - Jun 10, 2006 8:30 pm (#118 of 140)
TomProffitt, post #96: I think a portrait would be a lot easier to fool with magic than a real person
The other portraits in Dumbledore's office seemed to know when Phineas Nigellus was "playing possum" and scolded him for not wanting to help out. For those portraits to have been worth anything over the centuries, they would surely have to be able to see beyond someone's attempt to fool them.
Even if DD didn't tell him, he'd be bound to figure it out
Would he? Slughorn seemed surprised that Riddle knew about Horcruxes, and many seem to feel that information about them is not something that would be in the Hogwarts library. If Snape knew about Horcruxes--and the fact that Riddle was creating them--is it possible that Riddle told him? Remember what he says in the graveyard to the returning DEs (GoF, Chapter 33):
I ask myself, but how could they have believed I would not rise again? They, who knew the steps I took, long ago, to guard myself against mortal death?
It sounds to me like some DEs, at least, know the steps he took. It also makes me wonder about that ring ... Did Dumbledore know it was a Horcrux before he destroyed it? Did he then try to find and destroy Voldemort after destroying the ring, injuring his hand in the battle? He must have met Voldemort at least once after the DoM battle. Could that be what made him realize there were more Horcruxes than just one--the fact that Voldemort didn't die when hit with a fatal curse--and is it what led him to find Slughorn and learn the whole story?
Does Dumbledore even have a will? I'd say McGonagall is the most likely person to know, as his Deputy Headmistress.
Solitaire
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TomProffitt - Jun 11, 2006 9:33 am (#119 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
Does Dumbledore even have a will? I'd say McGonagall is the most likely person to know, as his Deputy Headmistress." --- Solitaire
I cannot imagine someone with Dumbledore's ability to plan so far into the future (he's been working the Harry angle for 15 years) not to have a will.
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Choices - Jun 11, 2006 2:23 pm (#120 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think Dumbledore will leave something written (or a memory) behind, but I don't think it will be like a regular will. I feel it will contain instructions or revelations about things/people that will be important to Harry, rather than just what Dumbledore leaves to whom. It will be more about what Dumbledore knows, than about what he has.
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wynnleaf - Jun 11, 2006 3:24 pm (#121 of 140)
Slughorn seemed surprised that Riddle knew about Horcruxes, and many seem to feel that information about them is not something that would be in the Hogwarts library.
Certainly Slughorn was surprised that a student would know about them. This was years before Riddle became Voldemort and a Dark Lord. And regardless of whether or not info was in the school library, Slughorn new about horcruxes, so it stands to reason that Snape (Dark Arts expert), would know about them, too. But I agree with you that LV sounded like he had told some of the DE's about the horcruxes.
On the other hand, while Lucius and Bella may have known about them, they were in their mid to late 20's when LV first "died," but Snape was only about 20 and probably not a DE as long as they had been. So he might not have been told.
Slughorn, on the other hand, definitely knows that LV made horcruxes and that DD was investigating it. Harry could also go to Slughorn for information on how to deal with them.
Basically, what I'm saying is that DD didn't have to leave horcrux info in a will. Harry could go to Slughorn for help (well, information, not necessarily help).
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Solitaire - Jun 11, 2006 5:27 pm (#122 of 140)
Well, Harry did go to Slughorn. But I doubt Sluggy would have known which objects Riddle would use. Snape might have an idea ...
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Die Zimtzicke - Jun 14, 2006 12:44 pm (#123 of 140)
While we're digressing, Slughorn is in with the Death eaters as far as I'm concerned. I have no doubt.
If he's secretly not one himself, (and I wonder, since he told Dumbledore he didn't have TIME to cast the dark mark, not that he didn't know how!) he at least knows a lot of them as an ex-Slytherin, and he may well have information about what has happened. If Dumbledore did leave instructions, more than a will, I think it would be great if there would be some advice or something about what to do with Slughorn. I often wonder if he would have been Dumbledore's choice to succeed Snape as head of Slytherin house.
Maybe he's the back up spy.
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Potter Ace - Jun 20, 2006 9:44 am (#124 of 140)
I don't see Slughorn as a spy, he has too many of Wormtail's traits for that. He is most concerned with appearance and connections. He wouldn't risk the humiliation and shame that went along with being a spy (if caught), and the reward wouldn't be great enough. He is a manipulator, not a man of action.
Tom, I have to disagree with your thoughts about DD's will. There will be something (I'm assuming a memory for the pensive) for Harry to tell him the story about his hand and possibly one showing why DD trusted Snape to the degree that he did.
Concerning Snape knowing about horcruxes, given that he stopped the curse attached to the ring, he must suspect something. It also lends credence to those who believe him to be on the side of the good, unless we learn very early in book 7 that he has told LV about DD's trips to find and destroy horcrux, his actions or inaction (not telling LV) will prove him out.
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Choices - Jun 20, 2006 9:55 am (#125 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Potter Ace - "There will be something (I'm assuming a memory for the pensive) for Harry to tell him the story about his hand"
Yes, I was reading HBP last night and came across what I believe is the third mention by Dumbledore that he will tell Harry the story of what happened to his hand. I think it is certain we will hear the story.
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Tom Marvolo Riddleton - Jun 28, 2006 8:28 pm (#126 of 140)
Hmmm. The only thing about there being important memories in the Pensieve that troubles me is whether or not Harry will be able to call them up from the cauldron. I don't exactly understand how the Pensieve works other than that it stores memories, which either means that I'm too unobservant or that Harry won't know what to do with it either, as the story is supposedly told through Harry's and JK's eyes. The only person I remember other than DD who knew how to use the Pensieve was Snape, and who knows if he'll be able to help Harry, who even really knows which side he's on (no matter how strongly we may feel). Although I know Slughorn knew how to call a memory forth from his head and put it in a vial, so maybe it's common knowledge how to use it. If nothing else, I'm sure Hermione could look it up in a book and tell Harry, if she doesn't already know. Dern. Now I'm all mixed up. Can anybody tell me anything about how one would navigate a Pensieve, so I can have a better idea of how Harry might be able to use DD's in the final book, assuming he inherits or at least has access to it?
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haymoni - Jun 28, 2006 8:42 pm (#127 of 140)
I suggested somewhere that Hermione's Runes class will finally be helpful in that she might be able to decipher what is written on The Pensieve.
Maybe Minerva knows. Or Sluggy.
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Potter Ace - Jun 30, 2006 10:20 am (#128 of 140)
Tom,
I don't think Harry will have trouble getting into a memory, he has done that on several occasions both with and without help. The problem I see is Harry getting out. He was never shown getting out himself, either DD directed him or Snape yanked him.
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RajKumar Raysee - Jul 4, 2006 9:21 am (#129 of 140)
something is bothering me!!! Harry said to Ginny in the end of HBP that he is not coming back to Hogwarts!!! soo hows he going to get all DD's possesions?? and also how he is gonna learn all that stuf(to help him destroy the horcruxes)!!! It seems that snape would be the one that first meets Harry tells him everything that he needs to know!!! but i still wonder how's that gonna happen!!
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Choices - Jul 4, 2006 9:39 am (#130 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I would not pay too much attention to what Harry says at the end of HBP. He is suffering the loss of Dumbledore, he has been through a horrible experience and what he says may just be his grief and exhaustion talking. Much like a drunk at the end of a long night of drinking swears he will never touch a drop of liquor again. Yeah, right! When Harry has had time to do some thinking and gets advice from various sources, he may change his mind about a lot of things.
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haymoni - Jul 4, 2006 1:12 pm (#131 of 140)
If Harry knocks out a horcrux or 2 over the summer, I could see him reconsidering his vow not to return.
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Detail Seeker - Jul 4, 2006 1:35 pm (#132 of 140)
Quod tempus non sanat, sanat ferrum,... so prepare
Him finding a Horcrux and finding out, he does not know, how to destroy it, might help even more to let him reconsider.
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RajKumar Raysee - Jul 6, 2006 10:26 am (#133 of 140)
hmmmm...CHOICES dats really a good bit of thinking....but Harry wouldn't be returning to Hogwarts immediately....he might visit it somewhere after the quarter of the novel...
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Soul Search - Jul 6, 2006 10:40 am (#134 of 140)
Actually, at the end of HBP, Harry hadn't yet left Hogwarts. This is an exception to the previous five books, so I suspect more will happen. Perhaps, Harry will find out something or receive something from Dumbledore's Will even before he returns to Privet Drive.
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Choices - Jul 6, 2006 6:21 pm (#135 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
They better be quick as the Hogwarts Express is due to leave one hour after the funeral. As HBP end, Harry has about 45 minutes to get his stuff and be on the train for London.
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Ponine - Aug 2, 2006 9:58 pm (#136 of 140)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Unless they don't get on the train...
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Soul Search - Aug 3, 2006 7:25 am (#137 of 140)
Very vunerable, the Hogwart's Express.
It was already stopped and invaded by dementors in PoA.
The only adults normally on the train are the engineer, conductor, and the witch who handles the food cart (who was at Dumbledore's funeral.)
Maybe that was why HBP ended before the train journey; DEs are going to attack the Hogwart's Express.
Of course, they would be facing most of the Hogwart's students. At least a few hundred recent graduates and NEWT level students, plus hundreds of other students, plus most of the DA. It would take more than a few death eaters to accomplish much.
Actually, I don't think Harry is going to take the train. He still has some business at Hogwarts.
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haymoni - Aug 3, 2006 7:30 am (#138 of 140)
Would they hold the train hostage?
I don't see Jo getting that graphic.
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 3, 2006 10:15 am (#139 of 140)
Now that after yesterday we know Dumbledore is really dead, do you all think it's more likely his will is going to come up, or will that be left out?
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Gemini 13 - Aug 7, 2006 12:21 pm (#140 of 140)
I would say more likely. I always believed Dumbledore was dead, but I still wonder if it was planned. Either way I believe his will is going to be a factor in the first few chapters of the 7th book.
I can't believe he didn't tell SOMEBODY about his hand.
I can't imagine Minerva not demanding some sort of answer as to why his hand was so badly injured.
He may not have gone into the whole horcrux thing, but he could have said SOMETHING.
On the other hand (sorry!) if he truly wanted to keep the horcrux thing a secret, he may have been waiting to tell Harry how it happened, hence his comment about it being a thrilling tale and him wanting to do it justice. He finally had an audience for his story.
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Pinky Prime - Jun 8, 2006 1:27 pm (#102 of 140)
"Talk to the Hand" The Hand of Gory?. No, I'm just being silly.
I wonder if DD has more than one portrait to slip in and out of. The one at Hogwarts seems to be owned by the school rather than by DD himself. But that doesn't mean that it is the only one. Finnias Nigelas Black (Spelling?) had two. The portrait in the Muggle Prime Minister's office had two the other supposedly at the MoM. St. Mungos had a connection to a portrait at Hogwarts. Seems to me if there were another portrait it would be bequeathed to Harry. Making it the one rather than the Hogwarts Portrait of DD.
Or better yet maybe all the Hogwarts portraits have links like the Floo Network and the Castles intra-personal ones.
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TomProffitt - Jun 8, 2006 4:41 pm (#103 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
"I can't believe he didn't tell SOMEBODY about his hand." --- haymoni
I guess what I'm saying is that I think the brief story we (and Harry) received was the story. I guess I'll have to re-read to be certain, but that's the impression I got from listening to the CDs.
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Choices - Jun 8, 2006 6:40 pm (#104 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
No, Dumbledore says it is quite a thrilling story and he will tell it to Harry when he has time to do it justice. (Horace Slughorn chapter of HBP) That says to me that it is not a short story and that Harry will hear it at some point.
I would also be willing to bet that Snape possibly heard the story since he was the one who treated Dumbledore for the injury to his hand.
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haymoni - Jun 9, 2006 6:41 am (#105 of 140)
But how would that conversation have gone?
"Headmaster! What happened to your hand?"
"Don't fuss over me, Severus. I merely injured it while playing with some jewelry. Alas, it was a cursed ring. However was I to know???""
Did Dumbledore tell Severus about the Horcrux?
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wynnleaf - Jun 9, 2006 7:40 am (#106 of 140)
I find it very hard to believe that Snape didn't know about what happened to DD's hand, when he was called upon by DD to care to it.
But even if Snape knows the story behind DD's hand, I don't think Harry would accept hearing the story from Snape unless he'd already had some sort of proof of Snape's loyalty. Since that's a part of what we wonder about DD leaving for Harry.... Well, in other words, I'm saying that getting the ring story from Snape is still probably contingent on DD somehow getting info to Harry about proof of Snape's loyalty. So DD would still have to "leave" info for Harry in some form. Of course, it doesn't have to be in a will.
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Choices - Jun 9, 2006 9:21 am (#107 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think for Snape to properly treat the injury to Dumbledore's hand, he has to know exactly what caused it.
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haymoni - Jun 9, 2006 10:07 am (#108 of 140)
So Snape knows about the Horcruxes?
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wynnleaf - Jun 9, 2006 11:14 am (#109 of 140)
Even if DD didn't tell him, he'd be bound to figure it out. After all, from various things DD said in HBP, Snape evidently has quite a huge knowledge of Dark Arts. It's almost certainly greater than Slughorn. And Snape has had to deal with LV for years. He's bound to have figured it out.
And if Snape figured it out and was on the "good" side, he'd almost certainly talk to DD about the possibility or probability of LV using horcruxes. So whoever knew about LV and horcruxes first -- DD or Snape -- it makes no difference. They'd have certainly discussed the horcruxes. So DD would have no reason to keep the ring horcrux a secret from Snape.
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Magic Words - Jun 9, 2006 11:15 am (#110 of 140)
I bet he knows. I never put it together that he might be the one to tell Harry the story, but that could be right.
I would be surprised if DD left Harry information, in any form, that proved Snape's loyalty. If he refused to tell Harry during his life, for whatever reason, I don't think he would set up a way to tell Harry once he died. Anyway, this is something Harry and Snape have to work out on their own.
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Gemini 13 - Jun 9, 2006 11:47 am (#111 of 140)
I never thought about it until, but it seems very likely Snape knows about the Horcruxes. That is very interesting information.
Wouldn't it be interesting to find out that Snape took an unbreakable Vow to Dumbledore saying he would do whatever it takes to help defeat Voldemort? That would be a good reason Dumbledore may trust Snape.
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TomProffitt - Jun 9, 2006 11:52 am (#112 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
"I would be surprised if DD left Harry information, in any form, that proved Snape's loyalty." --- Magic Words
From what I understand of Dumbledore's personality I expect that it was Albus's preference that Severus be the one to take care of the loyalty issue with the other members of the Order. I don't think Dumbledore enjoyed telling the others "I trust him, that should be good enough for you." I think Severus and Dumbledore have had more than one little chat about the Potion Master coming clean with the other members of the Order.
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Mrs. D. - Jun 10, 2006 8:21 am (#113 of 140)
So what happens if Snape came forward to DD before Voldemort tried to kill Harry the first time (or was found out) and he made an Unbreakable Vow to DD to help destroy LV (DD would have worded it with extreme diligence I'm sure) and then makes another vow that conflicts with the first one? I am not saying his Vow to Narcissa does that, just pondering what would happen if the entire situation had happened. Would it be possible?
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wynnleaf - Jun 10, 2006 11:22 am (#114 of 140)
I doubt if Snape was bound to follow DD through an unbreakable Vow. DD says over and over that he "trusts" Snape. Trust, to me, just doesn't imply someone being compelled by a Vow to be loyal.
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Mrs. D. - Jun 10, 2006 3:29 pm (#115 of 140)
Thus the "if". I don't actually think DD did require a vow but am wondering what would happen should one be made and then another contradictory to the first was tried to be made.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jun 10, 2006 4:56 pm (#116 of 140)
The discussion of late is interesting, but I don't know what it has to do with Dumbledore's will. Have we exhausted that subject?
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TomProffitt - Jun 10, 2006 4:58 pm (#117 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
We digressed, apparently, from the topic as we debated whether or not DD would leave Harry knowledge in his will.
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Solitaire - Jun 10, 2006 8:30 pm (#118 of 140)
TomProffitt, post #96: I think a portrait would be a lot easier to fool with magic than a real person
The other portraits in Dumbledore's office seemed to know when Phineas Nigellus was "playing possum" and scolded him for not wanting to help out. For those portraits to have been worth anything over the centuries, they would surely have to be able to see beyond someone's attempt to fool them.
Even if DD didn't tell him, he'd be bound to figure it out
Would he? Slughorn seemed surprised that Riddle knew about Horcruxes, and many seem to feel that information about them is not something that would be in the Hogwarts library. If Snape knew about Horcruxes--and the fact that Riddle was creating them--is it possible that Riddle told him? Remember what he says in the graveyard to the returning DEs (GoF, Chapter 33):
I ask myself, but how could they have believed I would not rise again? They, who knew the steps I took, long ago, to guard myself against mortal death?
It sounds to me like some DEs, at least, know the steps he took. It also makes me wonder about that ring ... Did Dumbledore know it was a Horcrux before he destroyed it? Did he then try to find and destroy Voldemort after destroying the ring, injuring his hand in the battle? He must have met Voldemort at least once after the DoM battle. Could that be what made him realize there were more Horcruxes than just one--the fact that Voldemort didn't die when hit with a fatal curse--and is it what led him to find Slughorn and learn the whole story?
Does Dumbledore even have a will? I'd say McGonagall is the most likely person to know, as his Deputy Headmistress.
Solitaire
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TomProffitt - Jun 11, 2006 9:33 am (#119 of 140)
Bullheaded empiricist
Does Dumbledore even have a will? I'd say McGonagall is the most likely person to know, as his Deputy Headmistress." --- Solitaire
I cannot imagine someone with Dumbledore's ability to plan so far into the future (he's been working the Harry angle for 15 years) not to have a will.
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Choices - Jun 11, 2006 2:23 pm (#120 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think Dumbledore will leave something written (or a memory) behind, but I don't think it will be like a regular will. I feel it will contain instructions or revelations about things/people that will be important to Harry, rather than just what Dumbledore leaves to whom. It will be more about what Dumbledore knows, than about what he has.
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wynnleaf - Jun 11, 2006 3:24 pm (#121 of 140)
Slughorn seemed surprised that Riddle knew about Horcruxes, and many seem to feel that information about them is not something that would be in the Hogwarts library.
Certainly Slughorn was surprised that a student would know about them. This was years before Riddle became Voldemort and a Dark Lord. And regardless of whether or not info was in the school library, Slughorn new about horcruxes, so it stands to reason that Snape (Dark Arts expert), would know about them, too. But I agree with you that LV sounded like he had told some of the DE's about the horcruxes.
On the other hand, while Lucius and Bella may have known about them, they were in their mid to late 20's when LV first "died," but Snape was only about 20 and probably not a DE as long as they had been. So he might not have been told.
Slughorn, on the other hand, definitely knows that LV made horcruxes and that DD was investigating it. Harry could also go to Slughorn for information on how to deal with them.
Basically, what I'm saying is that DD didn't have to leave horcrux info in a will. Harry could go to Slughorn for help (well, information, not necessarily help).
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Solitaire - Jun 11, 2006 5:27 pm (#122 of 140)
Well, Harry did go to Slughorn. But I doubt Sluggy would have known which objects Riddle would use. Snape might have an idea ...
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Die Zimtzicke - Jun 14, 2006 12:44 pm (#123 of 140)
While we're digressing, Slughorn is in with the Death eaters as far as I'm concerned. I have no doubt.
If he's secretly not one himself, (and I wonder, since he told Dumbledore he didn't have TIME to cast the dark mark, not that he didn't know how!) he at least knows a lot of them as an ex-Slytherin, and he may well have information about what has happened. If Dumbledore did leave instructions, more than a will, I think it would be great if there would be some advice or something about what to do with Slughorn. I often wonder if he would have been Dumbledore's choice to succeed Snape as head of Slytherin house.
Maybe he's the back up spy.
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Potter Ace - Jun 20, 2006 9:44 am (#124 of 140)
I don't see Slughorn as a spy, he has too many of Wormtail's traits for that. He is most concerned with appearance and connections. He wouldn't risk the humiliation and shame that went along with being a spy (if caught), and the reward wouldn't be great enough. He is a manipulator, not a man of action.
Tom, I have to disagree with your thoughts about DD's will. There will be something (I'm assuming a memory for the pensive) for Harry to tell him the story about his hand and possibly one showing why DD trusted Snape to the degree that he did.
Concerning Snape knowing about horcruxes, given that he stopped the curse attached to the ring, he must suspect something. It also lends credence to those who believe him to be on the side of the good, unless we learn very early in book 7 that he has told LV about DD's trips to find and destroy horcrux, his actions or inaction (not telling LV) will prove him out.
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Choices - Jun 20, 2006 9:55 am (#125 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Potter Ace - "There will be something (I'm assuming a memory for the pensive) for Harry to tell him the story about his hand"
Yes, I was reading HBP last night and came across what I believe is the third mention by Dumbledore that he will tell Harry the story of what happened to his hand. I think it is certain we will hear the story.
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Tom Marvolo Riddleton - Jun 28, 2006 8:28 pm (#126 of 140)
Hmmm. The only thing about there being important memories in the Pensieve that troubles me is whether or not Harry will be able to call them up from the cauldron. I don't exactly understand how the Pensieve works other than that it stores memories, which either means that I'm too unobservant or that Harry won't know what to do with it either, as the story is supposedly told through Harry's and JK's eyes. The only person I remember other than DD who knew how to use the Pensieve was Snape, and who knows if he'll be able to help Harry, who even really knows which side he's on (no matter how strongly we may feel). Although I know Slughorn knew how to call a memory forth from his head and put it in a vial, so maybe it's common knowledge how to use it. If nothing else, I'm sure Hermione could look it up in a book and tell Harry, if she doesn't already know. Dern. Now I'm all mixed up. Can anybody tell me anything about how one would navigate a Pensieve, so I can have a better idea of how Harry might be able to use DD's in the final book, assuming he inherits or at least has access to it?
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haymoni - Jun 28, 2006 8:42 pm (#127 of 140)
I suggested somewhere that Hermione's Runes class will finally be helpful in that she might be able to decipher what is written on The Pensieve.
Maybe Minerva knows. Or Sluggy.
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Potter Ace - Jun 30, 2006 10:20 am (#128 of 140)
Tom,
I don't think Harry will have trouble getting into a memory, he has done that on several occasions both with and without help. The problem I see is Harry getting out. He was never shown getting out himself, either DD directed him or Snape yanked him.
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RajKumar Raysee - Jul 4, 2006 9:21 am (#129 of 140)
something is bothering me!!! Harry said to Ginny in the end of HBP that he is not coming back to Hogwarts!!! soo hows he going to get all DD's possesions?? and also how he is gonna learn all that stuf(to help him destroy the horcruxes)!!! It seems that snape would be the one that first meets Harry tells him everything that he needs to know!!! but i still wonder how's that gonna happen!!
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Choices - Jul 4, 2006 9:39 am (#130 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I would not pay too much attention to what Harry says at the end of HBP. He is suffering the loss of Dumbledore, he has been through a horrible experience and what he says may just be his grief and exhaustion talking. Much like a drunk at the end of a long night of drinking swears he will never touch a drop of liquor again. Yeah, right! When Harry has had time to do some thinking and gets advice from various sources, he may change his mind about a lot of things.
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haymoni - Jul 4, 2006 1:12 pm (#131 of 140)
If Harry knocks out a horcrux or 2 over the summer, I could see him reconsidering his vow not to return.
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Detail Seeker - Jul 4, 2006 1:35 pm (#132 of 140)
Quod tempus non sanat, sanat ferrum,... so prepare
Him finding a Horcrux and finding out, he does not know, how to destroy it, might help even more to let him reconsider.
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RajKumar Raysee - Jul 6, 2006 10:26 am (#133 of 140)
hmmmm...CHOICES dats really a good bit of thinking....but Harry wouldn't be returning to Hogwarts immediately....he might visit it somewhere after the quarter of the novel...
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Soul Search - Jul 6, 2006 10:40 am (#134 of 140)
Actually, at the end of HBP, Harry hadn't yet left Hogwarts. This is an exception to the previous five books, so I suspect more will happen. Perhaps, Harry will find out something or receive something from Dumbledore's Will even before he returns to Privet Drive.
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Choices - Jul 6, 2006 6:21 pm (#135 of 140)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
They better be quick as the Hogwarts Express is due to leave one hour after the funeral. As HBP end, Harry has about 45 minutes to get his stuff and be on the train for London.
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Ponine - Aug 2, 2006 9:58 pm (#136 of 140)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Unless they don't get on the train...
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Soul Search - Aug 3, 2006 7:25 am (#137 of 140)
Very vunerable, the Hogwart's Express.
It was already stopped and invaded by dementors in PoA.
The only adults normally on the train are the engineer, conductor, and the witch who handles the food cart (who was at Dumbledore's funeral.)
Maybe that was why HBP ended before the train journey; DEs are going to attack the Hogwart's Express.
Of course, they would be facing most of the Hogwart's students. At least a few hundred recent graduates and NEWT level students, plus hundreds of other students, plus most of the DA. It would take more than a few death eaters to accomplish much.
Actually, I don't think Harry is going to take the train. He still has some business at Hogwarts.
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haymoni - Aug 3, 2006 7:30 am (#138 of 140)
Would they hold the train hostage?
I don't see Jo getting that graphic.
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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 3, 2006 10:15 am (#139 of 140)
Now that after yesterday we know Dumbledore is really dead, do you all think it's more likely his will is going to come up, or will that be left out?
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Gemini 13 - Aug 7, 2006 12:21 pm (#140 of 140)
I would say more likely. I always believed Dumbledore was dead, but I still wonder if it was planned. Either way I believe his will is going to be a factor in the first few chapters of the 7th book.
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