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Hedwig and Other Birds
Potteraholic Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:16 am
This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing, which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. It was copied/saved by Lady Arabella and reformatted/reposted by Potteraholic. ~Potteraholic
Kip Carter - Mar 29, 2009 2:06 am
I created this thread to discuss Hedwig and Other Birds, such as Errol or whichever bird fancies you. Enjoy!
Last edited by Potteraholic on Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
Potteraholic- Ravenclaw Prefect
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Join date : 2011-02-18
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Hedwig and Other Birds (posts #1 to #20)
Potteraholic Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:16 am
PeskyPixie - Mar 28, 2009 9:05 pm (#1 of 20)
I already know that some of you aren't interested in The Godfather and movies of that genre, so please bear with me. Director Francis Ford Coppola once remarked that so many people get killed in the movie, but the audience is in tears over the one horse which dies.
I was one of the people who felt that way, and I think this was because an innocent animal lost its life due to violence among human beings.
Similarly, despite the symbolic meaning of Hedwig's death, my heart breaks for her as an individual, not only for what she is to Harry. Her happy owlish existence is cut short as a result of the madness among human beings.
Solitaire - Mar 29, 2009 3:23 am (#2 of 20)
The death of Hedwig was incredibly upsetting to me, because it was so violent and abrupt, and Harry didn't really have the chance to grieve properly for her loss. Throughout the previous 6 years, she had helped to keep him connected to those he loved, even when he was separated from them. I don't know that her "owlish existence" was always happy. She was injured in OotP, and she spent much of each summer confined to a cage rather than soaring freely, as she was meant to do. Anyway, I always find the loss of innocent animals so sad.
The departure of Fawkes from Hogwarts was also a very emotional loss. I remember reading the graveyard scene in GoF for the first time. Fawkes's music was described as "the sound of hope" to Harry, and it seemed to give him a supernatural strength. It made my heart swell with emotion. At the end of HBP, I began to wonder if the exit of Fawkes from Hogwarts was the exit of Hope from that castle ... and from Harry's life.
Without a doubt, both Hedwig and Fawkes both left an imprint on Harry's life.
PeskyPixie - Mar 29, 2009 5:55 pm (#3 of 20)
Thanks, Kip!
I felt really empty without Fawkes in DH. Where did he go? Did he find a new person?
Julia H. - Apr 5, 2009 11:58 pm (#4 of 20)
Doesn't the exit of Fawkes also mean that death is not the end of Dumbledore, that he has simply found a new form of existence?
Choices - Apr 6, 2009 7:01 am (#5 of 20)
Edited Apr 6, 2009 8:02 am
Oh Julia, I certainly would like to think that Dumbledore is still around. It is hard to imagine that a wizard so powerful could just not exist anymore. I think he is out there somewhere, more than likely with Fawkes.
Solitaire - Apr 6, 2009 9:58 am (#6 of 20)
Harry did see and talk with a "form" of Dumbledore in King's Crossing.
Thom Matheson - Apr 6, 2009 10:01 am (#7 of 20)
I'm not altogether certain that Fawkes is now joined somehow with Dumbledore
Orion - Apr 6, 2009 12:04 pm (#8 of 20)
A phoenix is a wild bird and doesn't need a pet wizard. And it's also a romantic thought that Fawkes didn't want another person after DD.
shepherdess - Apr 6, 2009 2:17 pm (#9 of 20)
LOL @ pet wizard. I was a little disappointed that Fawkes didn't go to Harry. That would have had interesting possibilities. It was a tease for JKR to say that Harry would get a new pet. Buckbeak hardly qualifies as that.
Solitaire - Apr 6, 2009 4:47 pm (#10 of 20)
Buckbeak isn't even really Harry's pet. He is with Hagrid ... so that was a total tease. I do believe Fawkes should have come to Harry ... I was disappointed that he did not. We already know that he loved Harry ... at least, I think he did.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Apr 6, 2009 6:19 pm (#11 of 20)
Hedwig was also special because she was the first real birthday gift Harry ever received since his parents died. Hagrid is the first person to show affection for Harry and his parents. Hagrid made sure that Harry would have a useful and cool pet: "all the kids want owls."
Fawkes cared for Harry. He chose to heal Harry a couple times. His loyalty was to Dumbledore. I think maybe he needed to grieve. LPO
Thom Matheson - Apr 6, 2009 6:45 pm (#12 of 20)
Shepherdess, I'm with you. I would have bet the farm, especially after Hedwig bought it, that Fawkes would turn up and become his next choice for a human companion.
shepherdess - Apr 6, 2009 9:04 pm (#13 of 20)
How much do we know about the relationship/ownership between Dumbledore and Fawkes; or any phoenix and it's owner/companion in the Potterverse? Did Dumbledore actually "own" Fawkes like Hermione "owns" Crookshanks? Did Fawkes sort of "adopt" Dumbledore and stay because they were like friends or something? Were we cheated by JKR because she didn't prepare us for the possibility that Fawkes would someday just fly off into the sunset never to be part of the story again?
Orion - Apr 7, 2009 12:36 am (#14 of 20)
That adds to the mythical uniqueness of Fawkes. Do we really want a conventional ending for this age-old legend which is the phoenix?
Choices - Apr 8, 2009 7:24 am (#15 of 20)
I really like the idea that Fawkes just disappeared. He and Dumbledore had a very unique, spiritual relationship and I just don't think Fawkes could have maintained his dignity and mystique as a hand-me-down bird. Harry is a great wizard, but he isn't a Dumbledore.
Solitaire - Apr 8, 2009 8:40 am (#16 of 20)
Edited Apr 8, 2009 9:41 am
I do not think Fawkes was ever a "hand-me-down bird." I read an essay that said Dumbledore had tamed him. But I wonder ... is it possible that Fawkes simply chose Dumbledore as a master, the way a wand chooses a Wizard? If Fawkes was as ancient as having been Gryffindor's Phoenix, as has been suggested, then it is possible that his lifespan was at an end when Dumbledore died. Yes, I know Phoenixes are reborn; however, some versions of the Phoenix myth suggest that eventually, they do die a final death. Or perhaps they just fly off into eternity!
Thom Matheson - Apr 8, 2009 3:53 pm (#17 of 20)
I was thinking the same think Soli, but I went further to think that they sort of "marry" for life, and when the human companion dies, the Phoenix leaves also, never to mate again.
Choices - Apr 8, 2009 4:25 pm (#18 of 20)
I did not mean that Fawkes was a "hand-me-down" bird, but he would have been had he gone to Harry. I think after Dumbledore, he just went off into the wild blue yonder, or the "here-after", or whatever.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Apr 8, 2009 5:18 pm (#19 of 20)
On the "things that struck you as odd" thread there is a discussion about Fawkes' feather being in Tom Riddle's and Harry's wand. The term Fawkes only gave two feathers says to me he is a sentient being. He and Dumbledore communicated with each other. Fawkes allowed Harry to see him on a burning day in CoS. He was kind to Harry and chose to heal him. I think when Dumbledore died Fawkes chose to leave Hogwarts. He communicated that through his song. Harry knew as Dumbledore was gone so was Fawkes. LPO
Solitaire - Apr 8, 2009 8:03 pm (#20 of 20)
I think Fawkes could have "chosen" Harry, just as he chose Dumbledore ... but I also like Thom's explanation. I agree, too, that Fawkes had to leave Hogwarts. That signaled the end of Dumbledore's time on earth ... and at Hogwarts.
I already know that some of you aren't interested in The Godfather and movies of that genre, so please bear with me. Director Francis Ford Coppola once remarked that so many people get killed in the movie, but the audience is in tears over the one horse which dies.
I was one of the people who felt that way, and I think this was because an innocent animal lost its life due to violence among human beings.
Similarly, despite the symbolic meaning of Hedwig's death, my heart breaks for her as an individual, not only for what she is to Harry. Her happy owlish existence is cut short as a result of the madness among human beings.
Solitaire - Mar 29, 2009 3:23 am (#2 of 20)
The death of Hedwig was incredibly upsetting to me, because it was so violent and abrupt, and Harry didn't really have the chance to grieve properly for her loss. Throughout the previous 6 years, she had helped to keep him connected to those he loved, even when he was separated from them. I don't know that her "owlish existence" was always happy. She was injured in OotP, and she spent much of each summer confined to a cage rather than soaring freely, as she was meant to do. Anyway, I always find the loss of innocent animals so sad.
The departure of Fawkes from Hogwarts was also a very emotional loss. I remember reading the graveyard scene in GoF for the first time. Fawkes's music was described as "the sound of hope" to Harry, and it seemed to give him a supernatural strength. It made my heart swell with emotion. At the end of HBP, I began to wonder if the exit of Fawkes from Hogwarts was the exit of Hope from that castle ... and from Harry's life.
Without a doubt, both Hedwig and Fawkes both left an imprint on Harry's life.
PeskyPixie - Mar 29, 2009 5:55 pm (#3 of 20)
Thanks, Kip!
I felt really empty without Fawkes in DH. Where did he go? Did he find a new person?
Julia H. - Apr 5, 2009 11:58 pm (#4 of 20)
Doesn't the exit of Fawkes also mean that death is not the end of Dumbledore, that he has simply found a new form of existence?
Choices - Apr 6, 2009 7:01 am (#5 of 20)
Edited Apr 6, 2009 8:02 am
Oh Julia, I certainly would like to think that Dumbledore is still around. It is hard to imagine that a wizard so powerful could just not exist anymore. I think he is out there somewhere, more than likely with Fawkes.
Solitaire - Apr 6, 2009 9:58 am (#6 of 20)
Harry did see and talk with a "form" of Dumbledore in King's Crossing.
Thom Matheson - Apr 6, 2009 10:01 am (#7 of 20)
I'm not altogether certain that Fawkes is now joined somehow with Dumbledore
Orion - Apr 6, 2009 12:04 pm (#8 of 20)
A phoenix is a wild bird and doesn't need a pet wizard. And it's also a romantic thought that Fawkes didn't want another person after DD.
shepherdess - Apr 6, 2009 2:17 pm (#9 of 20)
LOL @ pet wizard. I was a little disappointed that Fawkes didn't go to Harry. That would have had interesting possibilities. It was a tease for JKR to say that Harry would get a new pet. Buckbeak hardly qualifies as that.
Solitaire - Apr 6, 2009 4:47 pm (#10 of 20)
Buckbeak isn't even really Harry's pet. He is with Hagrid ... so that was a total tease. I do believe Fawkes should have come to Harry ... I was disappointed that he did not. We already know that he loved Harry ... at least, I think he did.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Apr 6, 2009 6:19 pm (#11 of 20)
Hedwig was also special because she was the first real birthday gift Harry ever received since his parents died. Hagrid is the first person to show affection for Harry and his parents. Hagrid made sure that Harry would have a useful and cool pet: "all the kids want owls."
Fawkes cared for Harry. He chose to heal Harry a couple times. His loyalty was to Dumbledore. I think maybe he needed to grieve. LPO
Thom Matheson - Apr 6, 2009 6:45 pm (#12 of 20)
Shepherdess, I'm with you. I would have bet the farm, especially after Hedwig bought it, that Fawkes would turn up and become his next choice for a human companion.
shepherdess - Apr 6, 2009 9:04 pm (#13 of 20)
How much do we know about the relationship/ownership between Dumbledore and Fawkes; or any phoenix and it's owner/companion in the Potterverse? Did Dumbledore actually "own" Fawkes like Hermione "owns" Crookshanks? Did Fawkes sort of "adopt" Dumbledore and stay because they were like friends or something? Were we cheated by JKR because she didn't prepare us for the possibility that Fawkes would someday just fly off into the sunset never to be part of the story again?
Orion - Apr 7, 2009 12:36 am (#14 of 20)
That adds to the mythical uniqueness of Fawkes. Do we really want a conventional ending for this age-old legend which is the phoenix?
Choices - Apr 8, 2009 7:24 am (#15 of 20)
I really like the idea that Fawkes just disappeared. He and Dumbledore had a very unique, spiritual relationship and I just don't think Fawkes could have maintained his dignity and mystique as a hand-me-down bird. Harry is a great wizard, but he isn't a Dumbledore.
Solitaire - Apr 8, 2009 8:40 am (#16 of 20)
Edited Apr 8, 2009 9:41 am
I do not think Fawkes was ever a "hand-me-down bird." I read an essay that said Dumbledore had tamed him. But I wonder ... is it possible that Fawkes simply chose Dumbledore as a master, the way a wand chooses a Wizard? If Fawkes was as ancient as having been Gryffindor's Phoenix, as has been suggested, then it is possible that his lifespan was at an end when Dumbledore died. Yes, I know Phoenixes are reborn; however, some versions of the Phoenix myth suggest that eventually, they do die a final death. Or perhaps they just fly off into eternity!
Thom Matheson - Apr 8, 2009 3:53 pm (#17 of 20)
I was thinking the same think Soli, but I went further to think that they sort of "marry" for life, and when the human companion dies, the Phoenix leaves also, never to mate again.
Choices - Apr 8, 2009 4:25 pm (#18 of 20)
I did not mean that Fawkes was a "hand-me-down" bird, but he would have been had he gone to Harry. I think after Dumbledore, he just went off into the wild blue yonder, or the "here-after", or whatever.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Apr 8, 2009 5:18 pm (#19 of 20)
On the "things that struck you as odd" thread there is a discussion about Fawkes' feather being in Tom Riddle's and Harry's wand. The term Fawkes only gave two feathers says to me he is a sentient being. He and Dumbledore communicated with each other. Fawkes allowed Harry to see him on a burning day in CoS. He was kind to Harry and chose to heal him. I think when Dumbledore died Fawkes chose to leave Hogwarts. He communicated that through his song. Harry knew as Dumbledore was gone so was Fawkes. LPO
Solitaire - Apr 8, 2009 8:03 pm (#20 of 20)
I think Fawkes could have "chosen" Harry, just as he chose Dumbledore ... but I also like Thom's explanation. I agree, too, that Fawkes had to leave Hogwarts. That signaled the end of Dumbledore's time on earth ... and at Hogwarts.
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