The Time-line

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The Time-line

Post  Elanor on Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:03 pm

The Time-line

This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. At that time, this thread was still set in the "Archived Thread to be Worked" folder of the WC forum. Elanor

Hoshimi Yamino - Aug 31, 2003 10:03 pm
Edited by Kip Carter Jan 12, 2006 12:11 pm
Ok, I'm new here, I admit it, but I was wondering how the time line was established for Harry's years at Hogwarts. If I'm right, they say that the years Harry had fourth year was 94-95, which is impossible because on page 25 in Harry's letter to Sirius, Harry mentions a playstation, which was not out until at least 96...
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The Time-line (Post 1 to 54)

Post  Elanor on Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:05 pm

Hem Hem - Aug 31, 2003 10:23 pm (#1 of 54)
The timeline for Harry's years at Hogwarts was established by adding 500 years to the date of Nearly-Headless Nick's deathdate. Nick died in 1492, which means that the year was 1992 at his 500th deathday. Two school years later would bring the date to 1994-95.

And as for the Playstation, I admit I'm no expert on this, but I think they were out in Japan in 1994...maybe Vernon spent the extra money to get one imported for Dudley.

Welcome to the Forum, Hoshimi. I hope you enjoy contributing to the discussions with the rest of us!

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megfox - Sep 2, 2003 5:59 pm (#2 of 54)

My name is Madeline Guinevere Fox, and I am pleased to make your aquaintance!
There have actaully been many conversations on this issue before - you should check out the Lexicon timeline page, and do a search of the archived threads on the forum...those may be able to answer some of your questions! USe the search function in the teal bar! Good Luck, and welcome to the forum!

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Lexicon Steve - Sep 8, 2003 9:54 pm (#3 of 54)

There's a new page on the Lexicon that talks about a lot of these Timeline questions. It's found here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon

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Half-elf - Sep 10, 2003 5:52 pm (#4 of 54)

I've been reading the 'How old is Hermione' bits of the time line, because the UK school year runs 1/9 to 31/8. Sept 19 would make her one of the oldest in the year- 10 months older than Harry rather than 2 months yonger. 'Ebony' supports the 'younger' version in her exposition put on by the webmaster. I dont intend the following to be seen as 'proof' she is wrong, just counter views of what she says. 'Is the British school system that inflexible' when it comes to entry/birthdates. Possibly. Some years ago I read a newspaper story about twins born either side of midnight 31/8 to 1/9 The mother was complaining because officially the 1st one was a year older, and they would be in different years. It was only a few column inches, and I never saw any more- I dont know if the family won the appeal. Ebony also says being older would cause comment. Not really. Why should it? Every one would knows a school year contains a range of ages. What would be more worthy of comment is if she was a year early. As a matter of interest my sons year (3- he is 7, A July birth) contains a brother and sister wjo are not twins. Harry was born Sept, Molly 11 months later. This range of ages only causes comment out of surprise- Mum pregnant again after only 2-3 months! Of course this is all academic if Hogwarts chooses its own admission year!

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Fawksie - Sep 16, 2003 1:40 pm (#5 of 54)

Erm...Hi. Guest here. The Lexicon, as wonderfully detailed as it is, forgets to mention the Quidditch Time Line, which should be able to further add more depth to Harry Potter's Time Line. YES, I am aware that a time line for Quidditch alone is included. I am talking about how Quidditch History ties into the story--1473 was the first ever Quidditch World Cup and is held every 4 years ever since, right? In Book 4, Ludo Bagman announces, "Welcome to the 442nd World Cup!"

I'm not much of a math person, obviously...but, if the first world cup game was held in 1473, and every game after that was held after every four years--what would be the exact year for the 442nd World Cup? (Barring any problems, like the death of a player, or a game forfeiting...) I wanna see formulas!

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Caitlin McCoy - Sep 16, 2003 1:49 pm (#6 of 54)

Fierce are the winds that I blow before me
Math? Scary stuff, that is...you should talk to dudley, if he's still around here.

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Fawksie - Sep 16, 2003 1:54 pm (#7 of 54)

Heh...I was considering the LONG WAY, as in adding four years to the year until I've reached the 442nd game, but there's gotta be an easier way...Dudley, eh? Hopefully this'll get his, or someone else's attention...

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mollis - Sep 16, 2003 1:59 pm (#8 of 54)

I'm not Dudley, but actually, there is a discussion of this in the Lexicon. You can see it here - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Fawksie - Sep 16, 2003 2:05 pm (#9 of 54)

Oooh, thanks! I *thought* so...haha...but wouldn't it be funny if it was set in, say the year 3068, following the Quidditch cup...?

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zelmia - Sep 16, 2003 2:13 pm (#10 of 54)

Oh! And that's a bad miss!
I have always reasoned that when Quidditch first became popular, they had an annual World Cup tournament. This would have been much more feasible with only a smaller number of teams competing. Then, over the years, as the sport evolved, its popularity grew and the number of teams increased, the tournament was changed to every 4 years. This would give enough time to construct the venue (muggle-repelling charms, appropriate size, etc.) So even though it's the 442nd Quidditch World Cup, or whatever, they haven't been doing it every 4 years the whole time.

I will have to check my Quidditch Through the Ages for confirmation on this, but I don't think there is anything to disprove this. Is there? Curious....

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Fawksie - Sep 16, 2003 3:07 pm (#11 of 54)

Nice. But I believe Quidditch through the ages states that the "first World Cup was held in 1473, and has been held every four years since then..."

Paraphrased, however. I may be wrong. Maybe Rowling just chose a random number for the 4th book?

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schoff - Sep 16, 2003 4:11 pm (#12 of 54)

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Edited by Sep 16, 2003 4:17 pm
p.39-40:

"The year 1473 saw the first ever Quidditch World Cup....The World Cup has since been held every four years....In 1652 the European Cup was established, and it has been played every three years since."

In Harry's lifetime, 4 World Cups and 4 European Cups have been held.

World Cup years: 1981, 1985, 1989, and 1993. (Not written about yet is 1997 and 2001, with the next cup held in 2005.)

European Cup years: 1982, 1985, 1989, and 1993. (Not written about yet is 1997 and 2000. There is one held this year, 2003, with the next not until 2006.)

Using Sir Nick's 100th Deathday
Harry's first year: 1991-1992
Harry's second year: 1992-1993
Quidditch World Cup--This places the World Cup 1 year before Harry's third year, and it was clearly after it
Harry's third year: 1993-1994
Harry's fourth year: 1994-1995.
Harry's fifth year: 1995-1996.

Using First Quidditch World Cup date
Harry's first year: 1990-1991
Harry's second year: 1991-1992
Harry's third year: 1992-1993
Quidditch World Cup
Harry's fourth year: 1993-1994
Harry's fifth year: 1994-1995.

Clearly, the timelines are off by a year. Harry was either born in 1979 (According to Quidditch World Cup) or 1980 (according to CoS).

NOTE: I cheated. I used a calculator!

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Fawksie - Sep 16, 2003 8:03 pm (#13 of 54)

Now, that's a thinkin' cap. Thanks. (But how'dya figure?)

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schoff - Sep 16, 2003 9:32 pm (#14 of 54)

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Edited by Sep 16, 2003 9:34 pm
Not sure what you're asking Fawksie, but I'll try to answer anyways.

The quote is from "Quidditch Through The Ages" a ComicRelief book JKR put out a few years ago.

For World Cup years: I just put in 1473 and kept adding 4. This is easy to do when all you have to do is hit enter a bunch of times!

For European Cup years: Same as above only I kept adding 3 to 1652.

The First Harry Timeline is based on Sir Nick's Deathday. This was given to us in CoS, "The Deathday Party" lists his death as 31st October, 1492. This establishes Harry's second year as 1992-1993 (Oops! I put 100th Deathday in my last post, didn't I? Should be 500th). From there, I just figured out the rest of his years, and fit in where the World Cup should be. Note that it didn't match.

The Second Harry Timeline is based on the First Cup date of 1473. The World Cup was held after Harry's third year, and before his fourth. This means his third year ended in 1993 (starting in Sept. 1992) and his fourth year started in 1993 (ending in June 1994).

For Harry's birth year, I took his first year for both timelines, and subtracted 11.

Does this help?

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schoff - Sep 16, 2003 10:08 pm (#15 of 54)

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Edited by Sep 16, 2003 10:12 pm
Shoot! I'm too late, I have to put this on a new post: I have no idea how to reconcile Bagman's 422nd reference. If the Quidditch cup is held every 4 years, then 422*4=1688. 1993-1688=305, 1168 years before the first World Cup was ever played! It doesn't even work if you assume the cup's held every year, since 1993-422=1571, still 98 years off the original date of 1473.

1993-1473=520. 520/4=130. GoF should have been the 130th World Quidditch Cup Tournament.

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megfox - Sep 17, 2003 2:53 pm (#16 of 54)

My name is Madeline Guinevere Fox, and I am pleased to make your aquaintance!
I know that I may be flamed for saying this, but I think that sometimes...

*gulp*

...sometimes, JKR just writes things because she thinks they sound good, and not necessarily because she has *thought* *out* *every* *detail*.

Okay, let the stoning begin...

*ducks a computer mouse and keyboard*

I do, however, commend the immense amount of times the schoff must have pushed that enter button, and I thank everyone for their efforts to remedy this "error" as I have often tried to figure out why Ludo said that, too. I guess I'm just lazy.

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Fawksie - Sep 17, 2003 6:54 pm (#17 of 54)

Thanks, schoff, that's *exactly* what I'm asking about! =)

And Meg...haha...no flames here. I pretty much came to the same conclusion, but we still love Rowling all the same, I'm sure. Perhaps she'll either adjust the comment in Quidditch through the ages, or revise GoF later...?

I guess we'll just have to go off of Sir Nick's death day, since it is a part of the actual series.

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schoff - Sep 17, 2003 9:30 pm (#18 of 54)

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Meg, I'd agree with you if it weren't for the fact that the dates are so close. If the descrepency was 2,5,7, etc years, I'd say she takes them from the top of her head. But since they're only 1 year off (all of our timeline problems are a year off), I'd say she put at least some effort into it.

I really think it's the publishing years that's the problem. The original plan was 1 book per year, which P/SS, CoS, PoA, GoF followed. They wrote about Harry's school years the year they happened. However, GoF is a huge book, and JKR was scrambling to get it done. There were a lot of mistakes that had to be rectified in subsequent editions. This also seems to be when the timeline problems start. Quidditch Through The Ages was published close after GoF, and it probably continued on GoF's timeline problems. Remember, the school year covers two years (ie Sept. 1992-June 1993) and JKR may well have taken the wrong year and subtracted back for QTTA.

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shepherdess - Sep 17, 2003 9:31 pm (#19 of 54)

55 year old mother of 3, step-mother of 2, grandmom to 3, living in Oklahoma
Meg,

I agree with you totally! And I think her interviews are even worse-someone asks a question that she hasn't thought out the answer to, and instead of admitting she doesn't have an answer she either says what ever pops into her head, or she tries to be mysterious-leading us to believe that something may be important later. (ie. I think if she had thought about the continuing education thing, there would be wizarding universities.)

But I think the timeline question is symptomatic of another problem. I think JKR isn't good with math. The number of students at Hogwarts just doesn't add up. She doesn't tell us about any class that might use math skills (I think because she doesn't want to write about a subject that probably bores her because she isn't good at it). And of course, the timeline problem being discussed here is another example.

edit: Schoff was faster than me!

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Madam Poppy - Sep 22, 2003 8:41 am (#20 of 54)

Kirsten Valleskey
Edited by Sep 22, 2003 8:42 am
Don't forget those of us who are terrible at Math and would never even try to see if the dates are accurate.
Then there is the "kid factor". How many kids reading this "children's series" would be concerned about the dates actually being "real"? I am amazed JKR is as close to "real-time" as she is.

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Madame Librarian - Sep 23, 2003 8:57 am (#21 of 54)

Do you think there was a Quidditch Cup match even when a major war was going on, especially VWI, which unlike the Goblin uprising was a civil war (humans vs. humans)?

If the 4-year cycle for matches is meant to parallel the Muggle Olympics, was JKR maybe assuming we'd think of a break in the cycle like we had for World War II?

I do think Meg has a point--not everything single detail JKR writes is double-checked, cross referenced and nailed down. I think every great writer sometimes just goes with the flow.

Ciao. Barb

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schoff - Sep 23, 2003 11:27 am (#22 of 54)

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Well, VWI supposedly took place for 11 years prior to his first defeat. Voldie was defeated in 1981 (CoS timeline), the year a cup supposedly took place. Others would have been held during 1973 and 1977. If one was cancelled or postponed, then it was probably the 1981 Cup.

I'm actually starting to get the impression, though, that VWI wasn't quite a war, though--at least, not how we think of war, with countries attacking each other, and planning battles and stuff. It seems more like a rise to power. I think the real war is about to begin.

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Madame Librarian - Sep 23, 2003 11:32 am (#23 of 54)

Yes, schoff, I'd like to see a few of the Order members give us a good reminiscing (sp?) session around the table at 12 GP. Maybe a few fire whiskeys (is that what it's called?) would get their tongues going, and we'd get a clearer picture of what life was like during that era.

Ciao. Barb

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Fawkesy Lady - Sep 29, 2003 8:17 am (#24 of 54)

I don't think JKR could figure out every single detail. She would need a jury of people to battle things out to determine if it all matches up. Perhaps we could volunteer to help!

(Alterier motive - we could find out all the answers!) **Grins and rubs hands together**

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schoff - Oct 29, 2003 2:49 pm (#25 of 54)

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Edited by Denise P. Oct 29, 2003 8:32 pm
I just wanted to bump this.

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popkin - Oct 30, 2003 2:07 pm (#26 of 54)

mother
schoff, ignoring the problems with the number 422, you might want to correct your timeline for the European World Cup

European Cup years: 1982, 1985, 1989, and 1993. (Not written about yet is 1997 and 2000. There is one held this year, 2003, with the next not until 2006.)

Before I even explain it, I bet you see the error. There are four years from 1993 to 1997. So, 1997 should be changed to 1996 and the years from that point forward adjusted.

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popkin - Oct 30, 2003 2:23 pm (#27 of 54)

mother
For some time now I've been thinking about who is in the Marauders' old dorm room. If we could pin down the exact date of their entrance to Hogwarts, we could figure it out. If JKR has given this any thought, I bet there is something planted in that room that is of significance.

It seems unlikely that Harry and Ron are in that room, because the Lexicon places the Marauders beginning at Hogwarts in 1970 or 1971 (though I figure they might have actually begun in 1969 - can't remember why now, but it's in my notes I think), and, if you figure seven years at Hogwarts, the time in their dorm rooms looks like this:

Fall 1970 - Spring 1978 (or '69 - '77, '71 - '79) Marauders years at Hogwarts
Fall 1978 - Spring 1986 (or '77 - '85, '79 - '87) 1st generation following
Fall 1986 - Spring 1994 (or '85 - '93, '87 - '95) 2nd generation following


Since Harry started school in 1991, his class is unlikely to have been assigned to their old dorm room. I know it's obsessive, but I wish we could pin down a birthdate for one of the Marauders and figure out this puzzle.

After we've given this discussion time to get started, I'm copying over one of the dorm room time lines from the Very Secret Diary thread. Even though that one failed to pan out as I had hoped, I still think its interesting.

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schoff - Oct 30, 2003 2:31 pm (#28 of 54)

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Edited by Oct 30, 2003 1:35 pm
me: European Cup years: 1982, 1985, 1989, and 1993. (Not written about yet is 1997 and 2000. There is one held this year, 2003, with the next not until 2006.)

Corrected:

European Cup years: 1982, 1985, 1988, 1991, and 1994. (Not written about yet is 1997 and 2000. There is one held this year, 2003, with the next not until 2006.)

Thanks Popkin!

EDIT: I'm not sure if there's enough info to figure out their timeline. I think the only definitive clue is JKR saying Snape was 35 or 36 during one of the books. If we could correlate it to something else, maybe it would be possible.

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S.E. Jones - Oct 30, 2003 2:35 pm (#29 of 54)

Let it snow!
Schoff, I'm afraid you confused me here, "The Second Harry Timeline is based on the First Cup date of 1473. The World Cup was held after Harry's third year, and before his fourth. This means his third year ended in 1993 (starting in Sept. 1992) and his fourth year started in 1993 (ending in June 1994)."

The QWC was held in summer 1994, before he started on his fourth year, not summer 1993. His fourth year does encompass two years (fall 1994-spring 1995), which is why he was turning 15 at the start of OotP.

Popkin, I thought there was some sort of official timeline that put their first year as (fall) 1971, not 1970...?

EDIT: Oops, I see schoff was posting while I was writing. Thanks for that, schoff, it was really confusing me....

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schoff - Oct 30, 2003 2:44 pm (#30 of 54)

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Sarah: I double checked my QWC numbers to make sure they're correct.

The QWC timeline is based on the 1473 date given in QTTA. If you keep adding 4 to it, it brings you to the year 1993--the only time the QWC would be played while Harry attended Hogwarts (so far).

Since we know that the QWC was held during the break between 3rd year and 4th year, that means (according to the QWC timeline) Harry's 3rd year ended in 1993 and his 4th year began in 1993.

Hope this helps!

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Madame Librarian - Oct 30, 2003 3:23 pm (#31 of 54)

Wouldn't ya know it...I just happened to have the Lexicon open to the main timeline. Sirius, James, Remus, Peter and Lily begin their 1st year at Hogwarts in the fall of 1971. So they graduate in spring of '78.

Hope this helps unravel something.

Ciao. Barb

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S.E. Jones - Oct 30, 2003 3:38 pm (#32 of 54)

Let it snow!
schoff: The QWC timeline is based on the 1473 date given in QTTA. If you keep adding 4 to it, it brings you to the year 1993--the only time the QWC would be played while Harry attended Hogwarts (so far).

Yeah, I see what you're saying. QTA, pg40: "The World Cup has since been held every four years, though it was not until the seventeenth century that non-European teams turned up to compete. In 1652 the European Cup was established, and it has been played every three years since." If you keep adding 3 years to 1652, you do get 1994, so maybe that's what she was going with...?

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schoff - Oct 30, 2003 3:51 pm (#33 of 54)

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Edited by Oct 30, 2003 2:52 pm
That's what I think Sarah. I do believe that JKR made an honest effort to make the dates match when she realized she needed a date for QTTA. She just subtracted from the wrong year.

EDIT: Thanks for the info, Barb, but I'd really like to figure out how the Lexicon arrived at 1970 before the timeline was approved by JKR.

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S.E. Jones - Oct 30, 2003 4:22 pm (#34 of 54)

Let it snow!
I think it was a very educated guess. I guess you could ask that on the "Questions to the Hosts" thread....

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Danielle Menzo - Oct 30, 2003 6:52 pm (#35 of 54)

I have been wondering about this time line also and I have found some "proof" ,if you would like to call it that, that Hermione Granger really is a year older than the rest of the trio and many other students. I am quoting this from Book Five Goblet Of Fire:

People were cheering out in the entrance hall. A tall black girl who played Chaser on the Gryffindor Quidditch team, Angelina came over to them, sat down, and said, "Well, I've done it! Just put my name in!" "You're kidding!" said Ron, looking impressed. "Are you seventeen then?" asked Harry "'Course she is, can't see a beard, can you?" said Ron...... [p.261] Well, if this statement is truely correct ( found on page 261 American edition) then and Angelina is in the same year as Fred and George who would be sixteenin the up coming spring. Angelina put her name into the Goblet of Fire on October 31 of her sixth year, and her birthday came about a week before Halloween. So that would mean that Angelina actually enter Hogwarts a month before her Twelveth birthday which means that Hermione had to be eleven to enter Hogwarts school. Since she was born on September 19 then she must have been born in 1979!!!

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S.E. Jones - Oct 30, 2003 7:04 pm (#36 of 54)

Let it snow!
JKR has authorized a timeline that stated her birthday as Sept. 19, 1980, though. That is interesting about Angelina, though. I wonder if she has any other explanation for it.....

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popkin - Oct 31, 2003 1:46 am (#37 of 54)

mother
Edited by Oct 31, 2003 12:50 am
Madame Librarian,

I thought the same thing at first, but the Lexicon actually is making an assumption there about the first year the Marauders begin school.

This is from (I think) the same time line you were reading - just a bit higher up:

1970s Sirius Black, Remus Lupin, Peter Pettigrew, James Potter, and Severus Snape attend Hogwarts. Also attending at that time was Lily Evans, who would marry James Potter after they left school.

The books leave ambiguous the exact years they attended Hogwarts. JKR did state in an interview which coincided with the release of Goblet of Fire (CR) that Severus Snape was "about 35 or 36." That would place his birthdate in 1960 and his first year at Hogwarts to be 1971-72. This timeline works from that assumption. All dates for the this group might be a year off one way or the other. From "Snape's Worst Memory" in OP, we know that Snape, Black, Lupin, Pettigrew, and Potter were all 5 in the same year.

I would like to read the interview in which JKR reveals Snapes aproximate age, because I am unclear exactly what was said. I am assuming the Lexicon means that Snape was "about 35 or 36" in the book GOF. Going from that assumption, this is how I see things:

GOF is supposed to take place from about July 1994 to June 1995. So, somewhere in that time frame Snape is "about 35 or 36". That would mean that Snape's birthday would fall between the dates of .........

My mind is spinning as dates swirl around in my brain. I have to think this out on paper. I can't work it out while on line. If anyone gets the possible birthdates for Snape worked out while I'm puzzling over it, feel free to post your figures.

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S.E. Jones - Oct 31, 2003 8:27 am (#38 of 54)

Let it snow!
Actually, I thought there had been a supposedly "official" timeline published since then. Sly Girl is the one who first pointed me to it and others verified it. It's supposed to have been in Time Magazine, I think....

EDIT: BTW, popkin: ComicRelief Interview March 12, 2001
Q: How old are Professor Dumbledore and Professor Snape?
A: Dumbledore's about 150 years old... wizards have a longer life expectancy than us Muggles, Snape's 35 or 6.

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popkin - Oct 31, 2003 8:56 am (#39 of 54)

mother
Edited by Oct 31, 2003 7:58 am
Does that mean he's 35 or 36 in GOF, or in real time (March 12, 2001)?

If Snape were 35 or 36 in 2001, he'd be about 25 or 26 in 1991 (Harry's first year at Hogwarts - 11 years old). Since Snape's the same age as James, if we subtract Harry's age from James' age (25 or 26 minus 11 equals 14 or 15), that would make James way too young to be Harry's father. So, it must mean that Snape and company were around 35 or 36 in GOF. But, JKR's statement isn't very official sounding.

I'm going to look for the Time Magazine article you've mentioned, S.E.Jones. If someone knows where it is, it would be nice if you could post a link. Thanks.

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S.E. Jones - Oct 31, 2003 2:19 pm (#40 of 54)

Let it snow!
I think it was supposed to coincide with GoF but there has been some arguing, er, I mean debating, over that, so.....

I couldn't find the Time thing. I've been trying to find the post where Sly mentioned it to me, though.

EDIT: Ah ha, well, now I know why I couldn't find it. It's not Time, it's the Barnes and Noble Book Magazine. Here's Sly's post. ("Dated May/June 2003. JKR is on the cover. It's the "Rowling time-line" and matches JKR's life with events in the book.")

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popkin - Nov 1, 2003 12:41 am (#41 of 54)

mother
I did find two Harry Potter related timelines in Time Magazine. One was a publishing timeline. The other was a timeline of JKR's life.

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schoff - Nov 1, 2003 1:34 pm (#42 of 54)

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Edited by Nov 1, 2003 12:40 pm
::pulling out her trusty calculator::

Snape says he's been teaching at Hogwarts for 14 years in the Fall of 1995 (OoP 17 US362). He says this quote before Christmas, so that's why I'm taking the 1995 number.

1995-14=1981. Uh, You might note that if Snape started teaching in the Fall of 1981, then he was teaching two months prior to Voldie's first defeat. Interesting side note....

Okay, if Snape started teaching the year after he graduated, then he graduated in the Spring of 1981. He would have been at least eighteen during the year of 1981.

1981-18=1963. This is the youngest date for Snape's birth, and the latest he would have entered Hogwarts would be 1963+11=1974.

1963+35=1998. This was not Harry's fourth year, as that was held 1994-1995. The year also doesn't correlate to the interview year of 2001. Same goes with the age 36 estimate. From this, Popkin, I'm guessing that JKR was estimating his age during GoF, and not real-time, otherwise Snape would be too young. (2001-36=1965--2 years after the cutoff I gave in the previous paragraph.)

Snape (and the Marauders and Lily) must have had approximately 3-4 years after graduating from Hogwarts to establish their lives before Voldie was defeated in 1981. 1963-3=1960. 1960+11=1971 as a possible Hogwarts entrance date (Actually, I think the entrance can range from 1969-1971 depending on the math).

That's the best I can do for now. Hope you guys could follow along!

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popkin - Nov 3, 2003 9:54 am (#43 of 54)

mother
Thank you, schoff. I had to take a break for some real-life stuff, and could not get back to the math.

From what you figured, plus the "35 or 36" comment, you can figure the age of Snape at the time he began working at Hogwarts.

1995-14=1981. Uh, You might note that if Snape started teaching in the Fall of 1981, then he was teaching two months prior to Voldie's first defeat. Interesting side note....

35 or 36 minus 14 equals 21 or 22. So, Snape was 21 or 22 in 1981.

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zelmia - Nov 6, 2003 12:29 pm (#44 of 54)

Oh! And that's a bad miss!
I thought that interview was to coincide with the release of the CS movie and I have always interpreted JKR's response (that Snape is 35 or so) to mean that he is 35 or so during Harry's second year (CS).

If that is the case (and I can't help believing it is), then Snape would be about 39 in OP and would have started teaching at about 25. To my mind this makes a great deal more sense, especially as he is - even at 35 - the youngest Head of House. For that honor to have been bestowed, I would think that ten years of service to the school would be deserving, particularly as he has been denied the position he wants (DADA instructor).

So in my personal timeline, Snape et al were all born about 1956 and began at Hogwarts in the Fall of 1967. This puts them out of school in 1973 or '74 and NOT - as the Lexicon would have us believe - 1979. (There is no canon basis for the Lexicon timeline of Harry's parents and friends, after all).

This theory still fits in with Sirius's remark in GF that Snape "was always hanging around a group of older Slytherins" while he was still a student. Lucius (who we now know is 41 in 1995) would have been 2 years ahead of Snape and the Marauders (obviously). These 2 little years can be a HUGE difference to children and even teenagers. I have mentioned my disagreement with the timeline before on several occasions but here it is again for my two knuts...

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popkin - Nov 6, 2003 3:00 pm (#45 of 54)

mother
Zelmia, why do you think that interview was to coincide with the release of COS? Was it released then, or later?

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S.E. Jones - Nov 6, 2003 7:41 pm (#46 of 54)

Let it snow!
Nope. The CoS Movie was released in November of 2002, the interview where she gave Snape's age was in March 2001. GoF, on the other hand, was published in July of 2000....

ComicRelief Interview March 12, 2001
Q: How old are Professor Dumbledore and Professor Snape?
A: Dumbledore's about 150 years old... wizards have a longer life expectancy than us Muggles, Snape's 35 or 6.

Also, as I said before, the timeline that I mentioned before, the one in the Barnes and Noble magazine, was supposed to be approved by JKR. It stated their (James, Lily, etc) first year as 1971....

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popkin - Nov 7, 2003 2:25 am (#47 of 54)

mother
I have not been able to find that timeline. Have you provided a link?

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zelmia - Nov 7, 2003 9:05 am (#48 of 54)

Oh! And that's a bad miss!
I'm sorry about my earlier post because what I meant to say, is that the interview could have been in anticipation of the release of the SS/PS movie (not CS, which is what I typed).

And while it's true that this particular interview does coincide with the release of the publication of GF, it is pretty ambiguous since, as I recall (I apologise for not being able to cite the actual transcript - although I believe the link is at the Leaky Cauldron) the interviewer mentions the upcoming release of the film of book 1 as well. I distinctly remember thinking "Is Rowling talking about Snape's age as of GF or as of PS/SS? Is the question referring to the upcoming movie (as I believed) or the newly released chapter in the saga?"

But I would think that if there is a published (either in print or Internet) Rowling-sanctioned Timeline out there anywhere, we would surely have seen it linked on the Lexicon by now at the very least, wouldn't we?

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S.E. Jones - Nov 7, 2003 5:05 pm (#49 of 54)

Let it snow!
I'm not sure where to find it. It was mentioned to me by a fellow member whom I trust wholeheartedly, and then confirmed by another member or two. They said it was published in the Barnes and Noble store magazine. I'd love to see a link to it if anyone can find one, though....

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Dr Filibuster - Nov 10, 2003 1:37 pm (#50 of 54)

Sue, from Northwich, England.
I thought the approved timeline was on the Chamber of Secrets Dvd-rom?

"Comic Relief" is a charity. The interview was conducted to coincide with the two short books Rowling wrote on their behalf, namely "Quidditch Through the Ages" and "Fantastic Beasts and where to find them". I assumed that the 35-36 age for Snape was from the end of GoF which, as Sarah said, was only released a few months earlier. JK wrote Q and FB straight after GoF.

It always stuck in my mind that Rowling's parents were only 20 years old when she was born. We know that Lily and James were young parents too...so it seems fitting that they were also 20 at the time of Harry's birth.

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S.E. Jones - Nov 10, 2003 6:37 pm (#51 of 54)

Let it snow!
Ooh, good catch, Dr. Filibuster!

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Lexicon Steve - Jan 12, 2004 9:28 pm (#52 of 54)

There is a canon reference which strengthens the argument that James and Lily were quite young when they died. Harry, after seeing his father torture Snape in the Pensieve, refers to that as events that happened "over 20 years ago." The events he's seeing were when his father was his, Harry's, age.

That's still not specific enough for people like me, but we can deduce that it was between 20 and 25 years ago, logically. Otherwise Harry would have said "over 25 years ago," more than likely. So that means that no matter what year you care to imagine that this all takes place in, James and his friends were/are between 20 and 25 years older than Harry and HIS friends.

BTW, the official timeline does give Harry, Ron, and Hermione's birth year as 1980. According to Warner Bros., Rowling did approve that timeline after making a few minor adjustments (in other words, after giving it more than just a passing glance). Hermione is younger than the others.

Steve

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rambkowalczyk - Mar 9, 2004 1:25 pm (#53 of 54)

I am proposing a finetuning of the lexicon timeline for OOP from April to OWLS. For starters they left out April 25.

Day Reference Event/comments

Z 27/606-623 DADA-patronus, Dobby's warning, D.U.'s accusation, Dumbledores confession and flight. (This was put on a Monday night but it is unlikely that Harry would schedule DADA on the same night as occlumency)

Z+1 28/624 ED 28 z+1 28/625-626 HRH and Ernie come from Herbology. Draco deduct points just before lunch. z+1 28/627 Montague trys to deduct points but gets stuffed in Vanishing Cabinet. z+1 28/631-632 "Veritaserum", Weasley's fireworks z+1 28/633-634 Transfiguration class interrupted by fireworks, Flitwick talking to D.U. after final bell. z+1 28/634 Hermione decides not to study because Easter Holidays start on Friday. z+1 28/635-6 Harry dreams of prophecy room, remembers occlumency is tomorrow night. (z+1 can't be Friday since there is class the next day. It can't be Monday, Tues, or Wed since on none of those days is Herbology before lunch and transfiguration after lunch. z+1 has to be a Thursday but not the Thurs before Easter because there is class tomorrow. This event happened the week before Easter Holidays start)

z+2 28/639 Snapes worst memory. Snape tells Harry this lesson will be resumed tomorrow night. Montague is jammed in toilet. (z+2 isn't a Sat as Harry had classes that day. For this day to be a Friday some assumptions need to be made. Snape cancelled Wed class and postponed it to Friday. Harry had enough notice to schedule a DADA instead. When Friday evening came around it probably felt like a Wed once Harry was down in the dungeons. When Snape told Harry lesson resume tomorrow, both were in a Wed frame of mind and didn't think tomorrow was Sat. Snape was concerned about Montague and Harry was angry at Draco.

A 29/651 1st day of Easter holidays. Hermione asks Harry why he has no occlumency lessons. Ron discovers there are 6 weeks left to exams. (This day has to be Good Friday probably a week after z+2. A week of Harry not going to occlumency would prompt Hermione to ask this question.Another reason for putting a week between the z days and Easter will be given in part 2)

Easter by defination is the Sunday after the 1st full moon after the Spring Equinox. It falls between 3/22 and 4/25. I ruled out 3/28 and 4/4 as it is too early (not enough April to cram everything in) leaving 4/11,4/18, or 4/25 as possible candidates. The 6 weeks to exams would be either 5/24, 5/31, or 6/7. Since OWLS begin in June, Easter on 4/11 can be ruled out.

May 29 30/683 Griffendor vs Ravenclaw was on the last weekend in May.

F 31/706 "Lessons were devoted to topics teachers thought most likely to come up on exams" (Looks like there is a week for review)

Therefore OWLS started on Monday June 7. Review week is May 30 to June 4. B is Easter April 25 A is Friday April 23 Z Dumbledore escapes on Wednesday April 14. Z+1 Weasley fireworks on Thursday April 15. Z+2 Snapes worst memory is on Friday April 16.

Thus ends part 1 of part 2.

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rambkowalczyk - Mar 9, 2004 1:53 pm (#54 of 54)

Part 2 of 2. A few extra details that cover the end of April and May.

Day Reference event/comments

4/25 29/654 "Weather grew breezier as Holidays passed." Harry and Ginny in Library Sunday evening after Quidditch practise. Ginny gets Easter gift after Inquisitorial staff finished inspected it.

5/2 29/655 Sunday before classes resume. "Its business as usual from tomorrow." quote the twins as they plan with Harry to time their diversion so Harry can speak to Sirius. 5/2 29/658 Harry had been thinking about talking to Sirius for a fortnight.(Fortnight= 2 weeks. If Easter Break is one week it will have been 16 days since Snape's worst memory)

5/3 1st Monday after Easter Holidays. Harry gets career advice, and talks to Sirius in Fireplace. The twins create swamp and escape.

5/4? 30/678,681 On Tuesday. Montague's parents arrive angry because he is still confused and disoriented. This happens while HRH are in charms. Afterwards they go outside "in weak May sunshine".

5/4? 30/682 "Just a month until exams" On this same day Ron thinks there's a chance at the house cup if Montague is still sick. At this point Slytherin hasn't played Hufflepuff yet.

5/8? Saturday Slytherin vs Hufflepuff. (My gut feeling is that there should be a couple of weekends between Quidditch games).

So can anyone spot any major errors?
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