Rubeus Hagrid

Rubeus Hagrid

rettoP yrraH - Aug 29, 2003 12:53 pm Reply
Edited by Kip Carter Nov 17, 2005 2:44 am

I changed the title of this thread from "Hagrid" to "Rubeus Hagrid" – Kip

Here’s a thread for the big guy.

Why does Dumbledore have Hagrid of all people deliver Harry to the Dursleys? Why does he have Hagrid pick him up? What’s is it with the big dude?

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mischa fan - Aug 29, 2003 12:07 pm (#1 of 998)

I think the answer is quite simple Sam, Dumbledore trusts Hagrid. I think he knows that Hagrid is a faithful friend and rewards his faithfulness with his trust.

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A-is-for-Amy - Aug 29, 2003 12:20 pm (#2 of 998)

I think that a lot of readers underestimate the relationship between Hagrid and Dumbledore. Hagrid's father died when Hagrid was what - 12? Dumbledore must have been the one take responsibility for Hagrid at that point, even though he was not Headmaster at the time. Their relationship must have grown into something similar to that of father and son over the resulting years. Dumbledore seems to have taken part in almost every significant even in Hagrid's life for the last 50 years. Where do you think Hagrid spent his summer the year his father died, before he was expelled? I doubt he was sent to an orphanage!

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Sly Girl - Aug 29, 2003 12:38 pm (#3 of 998)
Edited Aug 29, 2003 1:38 pm

I agree Amy.. I think Hagrids unwavering loyalty to Dumbledore (Never!Insult Albus Dumbledore In Front of Me!)has grown out of their close relationship. Had Dumbledore been anyone else, they might have tossed Hagrid out on his mole skin coat, when he got expelled, but DD kept him and treated him fairly, even though he was 'part' giant.

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mollis - Aug 29, 2003 12:42 pm (#4 of 998)

I would still like to know what Hagrid did with Harry for the 24 hours or so that passed between picking him up in Godric's Hollow and dropping him off at the Dursley's...

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Jesspy - Aug 31, 2003 11:37 pm (#5 of 998)

Why, once cleared of his crime, hasn't Hagrid bought a new wand and gone back into the education system? He could do classes at night with the other teachers or a course similar to what Filch was doing. He could easily get a NEWT in Care of Magical Creatures as he does teach it, then he could be a fully registered wizard.

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mischa fan - Aug 31, 2003 11:45 pm (#6 of 998)

I don't think becoming a fully registered wizard is important to Hagrid, I think he is happy doing what he is doing now, working with magical creatures, teaching the students about the more "interesting" creatures and working for Albus Dumbledore.

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Sassi Fras - Aug 31, 2003 11:47 pm (#7 of 998)

I would still like to know what Hagrid did with Harry for the 24 hours or so that passed between picking him up in Godric's Hollow and dropping him off at the Dursley's...

Maybe it took such a long time because he followed a route suggested by MEM. You know, Godric's Hollow to Little Whinging via Brazil.

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mischa fan - Sep 1, 2003 12:06 am (#8 of 998)

Maybe he took Harry to St. Mungo's to be checked out to make sure he was ok. Or maybe he had a Greek Chapie he had to see about a dog.

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Jesspy - Sep 1, 2003 12:10 am (#9 of 998)

I think it would do wonders for Hagrid's self-esteem if he finished school, he does have an inferiority complex.

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rettoP yrraH - Sep 1, 2003 8:59 am (#10 of 998)

It seems his wand is fully working. but when Ron’s wand broke it was all messed up? Maybe it has to do with unicorn hair in Rons wand...

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Sly Girl - Sep 1, 2003 12:16 pm (#11 of 998)

I'd always assumed that Hagrid's wand was broke in half and he somehow managed to get the 'essence' of it, inside the umbrella (which is not broken as far as we know) and that's why it works. Conversely, Ron's wand was broken and he kept trying to use it, by fixing the wood (using the spellotape). Perhaps some of the essence leaked out or perhaps an uneven conduit like broken wood, makes the wand work not so great- make sense?

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rettoP yrraH - Sep 1, 2003 8:30 pm (#12 of 998)

Yes it does...maybe there is some sort of unbreakable charm on Hagrids 'breller. Hey! thats a thought! can a person put an unbreakable charm on his wand?

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Hem Hem - Sep 1, 2003 9:37 pm (#13 of 998)

They probably could, but how long does an unbreakable charm last for? It must wear off after a while.

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Harold Pinta - Sep 2, 2003 6:33 am (#14 of 998)

Does anyone think it is significant that Hagrid is so powerful, I mean he took loads more stunners than McGonagall and he kept on going! Maybe that's one of the reasons Dumbledore likes having him around. From time to time it seems to me that Hagrid has bodyguard duties aside his gameskeeping and teaching duties! After the fight with the guys from MoM during the Astronomy examination we learned how "invulnerable" hagrid realy was. There have been other instances, in GOF he makes sure that Karkarof can hurt DD and Harry.

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Sly Girl - Sep 2, 2003 11:07 am (#15 of 998)

The reason Hagrid was able to take so many 'stunners' was his giant blood- remember Hermione explains it to Harry when he asks the same question? I think this points to why DD wanted the giants to be on their side.

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rettoP yrraH - Sep 2, 2003 11:18 am (#16 of 998)

'Giant Blood' So we see a spell affects the blood? if Hagrid would give Harry a transfusion would Harry be invulnerable to stunners too?

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Sly Girl - Sep 2, 2003 11:26 am (#17 of 998)

Interesting theory. I hadn't thought of that. Maybe spells do have something to do with the blood. There must be a way for a wizard to kill a giant, because Hagrid said wizards used to hunt them, didn't he? hmm. It probably just takes longer to wound a giant.. and Hagrid is only half-giant, can you imagine how strong Grawp's blood is?

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Haggis and Irn Bru - Sep 2, 2003 12:43 pm (#18 of 998)

I would have thought that Giants had much thicker skin than humans. Dragons have a very thick hide and it takes lots of people to subdue them.

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rettoP yrraH - Sep 2, 2003 2:56 pm (#19 of 998) Reply
Edited by Sep 2, 2003 3:59 pm

Well now in come the eyes. Maybe this is where the whole Green eye ect thing comes in. Olimpya stunned the Giants by shooting them in the eyes with a curse. Sirius suggested to Harry to go after the dragons’ eyes. See a pattern yet? Seems that the eyes are the weak spot.

[five min later] And maybe that’s why Dumbledore wears glasses! and McGonnagal! and McG's glasses are her markings when she's a cat! Same with Skeeter. We see that they are always peering over them as if they don’t really need them! A looooong time ago I asked why magic can’t fix eyesight...maybe it never goes bad....

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Hem Hem - Sep 2, 2003 4:28 pm (#20 of 998)

Cool thought about the glasses.

Anyway, as for Hagrid's giant blood, I think there would be physiological problems with doing a blood-transfusion into Harry...I doubt JKR's magical world has a loophole for that...but you never know....

Sly Girl, it's probably easier to kill a giant when you have a dozen people stunning him at once. That's how Charlie and co. stunned the Dragons before the first task.

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Professor Kosh - Sep 2, 2003 5:34 pm (#21 of 998)

I think Hagrid's resistance to the stunners may have something to do with his mass (as well as his heritage). Although its hard to be sure, Hagrid is probably at least 7 feet to 9 feet tall (possibly more?). To be that tall and have the build ascribed to him, he must mass over 500 pounds or more. Perhaps that also contributed to his resistance (just as if you were to hit someone like him with a taser. That person might have more resistance than someone weighing 100-150lbs.

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rettoP yrraH - Sep 2, 2003 7:51 pm (#22 of 998)

Oh and Harry has glasses too....make ya wonder dont it?

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Sly Girl - Sep 2, 2003 11:36 pm (#23 of 998)

But Hermione definitely says "it's because of his giant blood" not because of his giant skin. I'm fairly sure Hermione knows what she's talking about on this one (she does listen to Binns, after all). I don't think anyone could do a transfusion or anything (I mean, the Wizarding world doesn't even use stitches to close wounds)...I just think that a giants natural protection against spells would come in handy for which-ever side they fought on.

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popkin - Sep 3, 2003 12:57 am (#24 of 998)

a quote from yrraH rettoP: Well now in come the eyes. Maybe this is where the whole Green eye ect thing comes in. Olimpya stunned the Giants by shooting them in the eyes with a curse. Sirius suggested to Harry to go after the dragons eyes. See a pattern yet? Seems that the eyes are the weak spot.

What if green Lily-type eyes don't have that weakness? Maybe that's part of Harry's secret power?

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Professor Kosh - Sep 3, 2003 6:46 am (#25 of 998)

Yes, several of the major players (DD, Minerva, Harry) wear glasses, but look around you. Almost half the population wears glasses! I think that JKR may be simply reflecting the reality around her in this.

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rettoP yrraH - Sep 3, 2003 9:26 am (#26 of 998)

Ahh but do you see any other students with glasses? I don't see alot of wizards with glasses. None of the Weasleys have glasses, None of the James Gang has, none of the Death Eaters have...

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Haggis and Irn Bru - Sep 3, 2003 11:05 am (#27 of 998)

Arthur Weasley and Percy have glasses.

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Sly Girl - Sep 3, 2003 12:10 pm (#28 of 998)
Edited Sep 3, 2003 1:11 pm

James had glasses too and I would assume you think he's part of his own gang, right?

Harry may have Lily's color of eyes, but he has James's eye weakness.

But of course, this has nothing to do with Hagrid.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 3, 2003 3:21 pm (#29 of 998)

I think the "giant blood" was in reference to those genetic traits he got from his giantess mother, the thick skin, being something like 9 feet tall, ect. If you go back and read you may notice that none of the Aurors there stunned him simultaneously, they all did it one after the other. I think that if they had stunned him together, the way Charlie and the other dragon keepers did the dragons, they would have caught him. (Makes you kinda wonder what sorta idiots they got for Aurors, doesn't it?)

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Sly Girl - Sep 3, 2003 4:43 pm (#30 of 998)

Well, maybe they were "Order" Aurors and didn't really try to stun Hagrid.

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J-D - Sep 3, 2003 7:03 pm (#31 of 998)

Then why would they stun McGonagall? Madam Pomfrey said it was really bad for her health. I don't see order Aurors doing something like that.

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Sly Girl - Sep 3, 2003 8:26 pm (#32 of 998)

Well, I was only talking about the ones hitting Hagrid.. for some reason I always thought there were two groups of people,the ones attacking Hagrid and the ones that hit McGonagall. I thought maybe they had broken up at one point. Oh well. I wasn't being serious to begin with, hence my

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zelmia - Sep 10, 2003 12:09 pm (#33 of 998)

I'm not sure where else to put this question so I've put it here:

How could Dumbledore have "allowed" Hagrid to stay on as Gamekeeper? He wasn't yet Headmaster when Hagrid was expelled. Hagid says in Book 1 that Dumbledore allowed this - or does he? I don't have it right in front of me, but I seem to remember when they were rowing back from the Hut on the Rock that Hagrid explained that he had been expelled and that it was Dumbledore who gave him the Gamekeeper job.

Anyway, how could Dumbledore have done this? I know he could have influenced Armando Dippet to allow it. But even the Lexicon says "Dumbledore allows Hagrid..." Hmm...

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haymoni - Sep 10, 2003 12:21 pm (#34 of 998)

I didn't think the 2 incidents happened at the same time. Hagrid was expelled and later Dumbledore makes him Gamekeeper.

If Hagrid was at school at the same time Tom Riddle was, he is older than Molly and Arthur. Molly was reminiscing when she visited Harry during the Triwizard Tournament about a gamekeeper called Ogg (?).

I don't know where Hagrid was between being expelled and getting the gamekeeper's job, though.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 10, 2003 3:04 pm (#35 of 998)

The quote from PS goes: "I---er---got expelled, ter tell yeh the truth. In me third year. They snapped me wand in half an' everything. But Dumbledore let me stay on as gamekeeper."

Hm, I'm going to go with the idea that DD somehow persuaded Dippet to let Hagrid stay on. (If DD was next in line for the Headmaster position, he must've been a Head of House and a confidant of Dippet and thus would have had some sway with him.) We've also guessed before that Hagrid may have gone into the position as an apprentise to the previous gameskeeper. I mean, Hagrid couldn't have handled the job alone as he was only about 13-14 at the time and also couldn't have lived on his own very well (which could have well been the argument DD used when he persuaded Dippet).

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Sly Girl - Sep 10, 2003 7:36 pm (#36 of 998)

What I want to know is if Hagrid's 2nd duty of being 'Keeper of Keys' for Hogwarts will ever come into play. Re-reading book 1, that title sort of jumped out at me.

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Professor Kosh - Sep 10, 2003 9:28 pm (#37 of 998)
Edited Sep 10, 2003 10:30 pm

DD may have 'allowed' Hagrid to stay on by 'adopting' him, allowing Hagrid to live with him as a child and talking the current gamekeeper into taking Hagrid on as an assistant(as SE Jones suggested). He would be loads of help, and I see DD convincing the gameskeeper easily. Hagrid is massively strong, kind in temperament, and loves all magical creatures (even if he keeps a special place in his heart for monsters). This could be what Hagrid meant by 'permitting'. It would also further explain Hagrid's loyalty. DD didn't just get him another job, but was his adopted father.



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Ladybug220 - Sep 11, 2003 4:22 am (#38 of 998)

That's a good theory Kosh, but I would have thought that Hagrid would let something slip by now. He does have a tendency to reveal things that he is not supposed to and that would be something big which would be hard for him to keep quiet.

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haymoni - Sep 11, 2003 4:34 am (#39 of 998)

When Harry has his first flying lesson and he thinks he is going to be expelled, he wonders if he would be allowed to stay on as Hagrid's assistant. I think Hagrid as assistant gamekeeper is the most plausible theory.

Sly Girl - I've been waiting for the key connection also. Maybe now that he is a teacher, Hagrid has "enough to be getting on with" and we won't see that side of him.

Oh - how about this - now that everyone knows Voldemort is back, Hagrid is free to go on another giant mission - Grubblyplank stays on as teacher and Hagrid can do more for the Order.

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Ihavebothbuttocks - Sep 11, 2003 5:20 am (#40 of 998)

What exactly is the "Keeper of the Keys"? Is there anything in the canon that defines this position? Is this like a secret keeper? Or, since just about everything is "Locked" by some sort of magic, is he the one who performs the actual spells? Comes up with the new passwords? Blocks against escape the doors of people like me who suddenly start babbling questions?

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S.E. Jones - Sep 11, 2003 12:26 pm (#41 of 998)

Maybe it's not an actual official position. It could be something he made up for himself when he was given Harry's key because he thought it would sound more impressive. Hm, could me maybe keep the key to the main gates of Hogwarts?

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Sly Girl - Sep 11, 2003 1:09 pm (#42 of 998)

For some reason, I don't see Hagrid making up something like, "Keeper of the Keys". He states it along with his name, "Reubus Hagrid, Keeper of Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts." I've never known Hagrid to be the one to make something up to sound impressive...

Maybe it does have something to do with him having Harry's bank key.. it's very confusing, really.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 11, 2003 1:14 pm (#43 of 998)

What do you think of the main gate key idea, Sly?

I thought perhaps he has keys to the castle but you'd think that Filch and all the teachers (or at least the Heads of House) would as well....

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Sly Girl - Sep 11, 2003 1:17 pm (#44 of 998)

Yeah.. I know.. maybe only Hagrid has the main gate key and there's something magical about that? Gah. I just don't know! You'd think Filch would have the keys too, but have we ever seen Filch get into something without first having a professor with him?

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S.E. Jones - Sep 11, 2003 1:26 pm (#45 of 998)

Filch wouldn't need the key to the main gate to the grounds since he is caretaker and thus spends all his time inside the castle. Didn't Lupin make a comment, in PoA, about Filch not being able to get into his storage closet because Peeves was sticking chewing gum into the lock? I assumed that meant he wouldn't be able to unlock it which would infer that he had a key to the closet....

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Olivia Wood - Sep 12, 2003 3:02 pm (#46 of 998)

When Harry looks through Hagrid’s coat in SS he mentions finding 'bunches of keys'. It's possible that the teachers have the keys to their classrooms and offices, Filch has the keys to the closets, etc., but Hagrid has all the keys.

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schoff - Sep 12, 2003 3:08 pm (#47 of 998)

Throwing this out, seeing if it flies:

What if "keys" here doesn't mean an actual physical object. "Keys" can also mean "clues", ergo Keeper of Keys could also mean Keeper of Clues. Has Hagrid ever done or said anything that might give us a clue as to what might happen to the story? The quickest one that comes to mind is his "As long as Dumbledore's around, I'm not too worried" line. Any others?

Maybe it's Hagrid we should be watching, and not Ron...

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Sly Girl - Sep 12, 2003 8:32 pm (#48 of 998)
Edited Sep 12, 2003 9:33 pm

Yeah, I consider that idea too Schoff.. but for the most part, don't we learn to accept that most things Hagrid says with a grain of salt? Although he does really let things slip in the first book, doesn't he? He does sort of move Harry and the gang in the right direction...

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popkin - Sep 12, 2003 8:46 pm (#49 of 998)

Quote from Schoff: "Maybe it's Hagrid we should be watching, and not Ron... "

I think that's a very valid point. Alerting us to watch Hagrid for clues sounds very much like something JKR would do.

The one incident that pops into my mind is the conflict between Firenze's warning "His attempt is not working. He would do better to abandon it." (GoF 604, 693) and Hagrid's response to it:

'Nice bloke, Firenze,' he said gruffly, 'but he don' know what he's talking' abou' on this. The attemp's comin' on fine.......There's things more importan' than keepin' a job.'

It turns out that Firenze is wrong (so far) in his prediction. Grawp, through Hagrid's unconditional love, is becoming more civilized. He is able to recognize and help "Hermy", and to enable the six DAs to get to the MoM.

Does that mean that Firenze will be wrong again?

I couldn't find it just now, but didn't Hagrid tell Harry again how the centaurs are wrong sometimes, and they were wrong this time, and that he has found something to be treasured above everything else

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zelmia - Sep 13, 2003 12:57 pm (#50 of 998)
Edited Sep 13, 2003 1:59 pm

Mysteries of Hagrid:

1) Why was he expelled? (solved in CS)

2) How could Dumbledore have had the authority back then to "allow" Hagrid to stay on as Gamekeeper? One reason might be that the Deputy Head (I'm assuming that Dumbledore was Deputy Head at that period) might be in charge of Staffing for Hogwarts. Surely that position has more to it than just heir apparent to the Headmaster position? (If for any reason the Headmaster cannot fulfill his/her duties, the first runner up - I mean Deputy Headmaster will...) Perhaps hiring and dealing with personnel issues is also part of that person's job.

3) When has Hagrid ever been referred to as either Keeper of the Keys or Keeper of the Grounds/Groundskeeper outside of Book 1?

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schoff - Sep 13, 2003 11:41 pm (#51 of 998) Reply
Edited by Sep 14, 2003 12:44 am

Sly Girl: "Yeah, I consider that idea too Schoff.. but for the most part, don't we learn to accept that most things Hagrid says with a grain of salt"

Perhaps another red herring that Hagrid's really the one we want to pay attention to? Throwing us off the scent, so to speak. Hagrid seems most untrustworthy when talking about things that happened in the past. What about his throwaway lines? Popkin had a good one with Firenze. It turns out Hagrid was right, and not Firenze, the accomplished Divinator (yeah, I know it's not a word, but you get the drift!) I really think his "If DD's around" line is a hint about DD's possible death. I think I might go back and try and find some more, but can anyone else come up with any of the top of their heads?

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Rose Marie Zadorojny Vilella - Sep 19, 2003 1:41 pm (#52 of 998)

Here's something I've been thinking about. We imagine Hagrid is what, around 40 years old? The books never tell us his age, but we can guess, right? Just think: 50 years before 1992 (when Harry was in his second year at Hogwarts), we learn that Hagrid is 13.. which means Hagrid was 63 in 1992... Harry's in his fifth year in the year 1995, which would make Hagrid 66 years old! And the movie doesn't show him as a 66 year old! I mean Rowling would have made the actor playing Hagrid be older, don't you think?

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Sly Girl - Sep 19, 2003 1:45 pm (#53 of 998)

Rose, this is more of a movie question and we want these threads to be about the book characters, please refer to the discussion of the actors in those threads.

As for your question, Hagrid is also part giant and we do not know if that somehow makes him appear younger than he is. But I'm fairly certain that Hagrid is indeed in his 60's and that JKR has confirmed this.

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Haggis and Irn Bru - Sep 19, 2003 2:03 pm (#54 of 998)

Wizarding life expectancy is different from muggle life expectancy. If you compare a spritely 63 year old Hagrid to a 150 year old Dumbly Hagrid would appear to be young in comparison.

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popkin - Sep 30, 2003 4:19 pm (#55 of 998)

I read somewhere that Hagrid would be going back to school in book 6. It was presented as a fact, but I haven't seen anyone talking about it since. Does anyone know if JKR said that Hagrid would be going back to school?

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Gryffin - Sep 30, 2003 4:30 pm (#56 of 998)

No, I had not heard that. It would make a wonderful & intriguing plot line. I do hope that happens!

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Fawkes Forever - Oct 1, 2003 5:18 am (#57 of 998)

It would be a cool story, but I doubt it will happen, he might go to 'knight school' instead... geddit... knight school.... *hee hee*

But, if he did, you could put him on the Griffindor Quidditch team as a beater..... He'd definitely make short work of the bludger... hee hee, that is providing you could get a big enough broomstick

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Sinister Kittens - Oct 1, 2003 5:28 am (#58 of 998)

Beater? Blimey, I would put him as keeper - there's no way a quaffle would be able to get past him, he wouldn't even need to circle the goalposts he could just stay in one place in front of the goal hoops!

***sigh*** if only...

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Fawkes Forever - Oct 1, 2003 5:31 am (#59 of 998)

hee hee, good point SK!

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Gryffin - Oct 1, 2003 6:07 pm (#60 of 998)

I wonder if they make brooms big enough for him? It would be kind of a funny picture.... wouldn't it?

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Madame Librarian - Oct 1, 2003 6:09 pm (#61 of 998)
Edited Oct 1, 2003 7:10 pm

Hagrid would fly the ultimate SUV--the Hummer of the WW.

Ciao. Barb

EDIT: No, wait. It would be a stretch Hummer!

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LilyP - Oct 2, 2003 2:01 pm (#62 of 998)

How about a Hoover?

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timrew - Oct 2, 2003 2:06 pm (#63 of 998)

Hagrid could always get Grawpy to uproot a tree for him, and use THAT as a broom - a sort of Fir-Bolt.

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shepherdess - Oct 2, 2003 4:03 pm (#64 of 998)

Oh, my goodness, Tim! That's the funniest thing I've read in a long time! What would we do without you?!

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A-is-for-Amy - Oct 2, 2003 5:35 pm (#65 of 998)

I have a question... In the first book, when Hagrid first meets Harry and they are about to take the boat to the mainland, Harry asks Hagrid how he got there in the first place. Hagrid answers that he flew. How? He didn't have a broomstick on him (and let's face it, that would be one big broom stick!). Do you think a thestral could hold someone his size?

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Denise P. - Oct 2, 2003 6:05 pm (#66 of 998)

Did he fly or did he say he "floo"? Perhaps he came to a nearby fireplace via the Floo network. I think a thestral is a good choice.

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LilyP - Oct 2, 2003 6:08 pm (#67 of 998)

No, it is definitely flew. I thought the same thing when I read it last. How did he fly?? I hadn't considered the Threstral. That's good and feel pretty likely, compared to other ideas. I originally imagined he must have Mary Poppins-ed it. I think the threstral would make the most sense.

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Sly Girl - Oct 2, 2003 6:21 pm (#68 of 998)

He could have used the motorbike and stashed it somewhere... although isn't it weird how Hagrid disappears in the first book?   The movie makes it seems like he just poof! gone, but the book sort of leaves it out there as well. So if he CAN apparate, why say he FLEW?

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S.E. Jones - Oct 2, 2003 6:53 pm (#69 of 998)

Maybe it says "flew" because he, er, flew. He didn't seem to be in a big hurry to get to Harry so maybe he took a threstral there, but after he got Harry and the stone he was in a hurry to get the stone back to Dd so he Disapparated.....

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Gryffin - Oct 2, 2003 7:19 pm (#70 of 998)
Edited Oct 2, 2003 8:20 pm

It had to have been a Threstral or maybe an Abraxan horse like Madame Maxime's (Or who knows what Hagrid has up his sleeve in that forest!).

In the "Order of the Phoenix" he told Umbridge that he doesn't fly. Page 437 (American Edition) When she asked him how he came about his injuries:

I-I tripped. "You tripped," she repeated coolly. "Yeah, tha's right. Over...a friend's broomstick. I don' fly, meself. Well, look at the size o' me, I don' reckon there's a broomstick that'd hold me. Friend o' mine breeds Abraxan horse, I dunno if you've ever seen 'em, big beasts, winged, yeh know, I've had a bit of a ride on one o' them an' it was--"

Maybe we should tell Hagrid about Madame Librarian's Idea for the Stretch SUV Hummer!! But knowing him he would prefer those Abraxan horses any day!

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zixyer - Oct 3, 2003 1:16 pm (#71 of 998)

I think, based on the context there, Hagrid was saying that he doesn't fly on broomsticks.

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popkin - Oct 3, 2003 1:30 pm (#72 of 998)

He did fly on Sirius motorcycle, though.

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Neville Longbottom - Oct 3, 2003 1:56 pm (#73 of 998)

Maybe he also used to fly with his pink umbrella like Mary Poppins? ;-)

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Choices - Oct 3, 2003 4:35 pm (#74 of 998)

I think Hagrid's position as Keeper of the Keys and the Grounds, refers to all the out buildings at Hogwarts - the Herbology greenhouses, work sheds, etc. There must be places he stores his slug repellant and other things he uses to maintain the grounds and animals.

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popkin - Oct 3, 2003 8:34 pm (#75 of 998)

This has probably been discussed somewhere else, but I haven't seen it in recent discussions of Hagrid's position as "Keeper of the Keys".

Quote: "The passage in Is. 22:22 makes a Messianic reference to a general custom in Israel and surrounding nations during the first millennium B.C. The custom was that the king, governor, prince, master, or head of household could give someone the power to act in his place in his absence or for certain duties. This "prime minister" or "right hand man" was given a ceremonial robe, belt, and key to signify his authority under the leader. When the individual with the "key" (and other items) made a judgment over his master's property and/or people, it communicated and represented the master's will." [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

In the Roman Catholic Church, Christ's "Keeper of the Keys" (real title) is Pope John Paul II, and he has the authority to speak for Christ on earth (no arguments, please, I'm simply stating the official position of the Church to show what kind of power is implied by the title). At Hogwarts, Dumbledore's "Keeper of the Keys" is Hagrid.

When Hagrid goes to Gringott's, he has Dumbledore's power of attorney, or authority, to take the sorcerer's stone and do with it what he wills. Dumbledore knows that Hagrid will be as careful with that stone as he, himself, would.

When McGonagall finds out Hagrid will be delivering baby Harry to the Dursleys, she asks Dumbledore, "You think it -- wise -- to trust Hagrid with something as important as this?" Dumbledore replies, "I would trust Hagrid with my life." (SS p. 14 US) I don't think Dumbledore shows that same level of trust for any other person.

I know that Hagrid will carelessly let things slip, but his heart is 100% true to Dumbledore. He shows his true colors when he proclaims, "NEVER-INSULT-ALBUS-DUMBLEDORE-IN-FRONT-OF-ME!" (SS p. 59 US).

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Sly Girl - Oct 3, 2003 10:52 pm (#76 of 998)

Very astute observations,popkin! A pack full of Bertie Bott's for you!

It's true- DD trusts Hagrid and we have seen on numerous occasion that one does not belittle Albus Dumbledore in front of Hagrid. I like this explanation of Hagrid's title- Keeper of Keys at Hogwarts. I think that is exactly why JKR gave him that title.

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Choices - Oct 4, 2003 8:26 am (#77 of 998)

That is all very interesting, but I have to say I have never had the impression that Hagrid would be able to act for Dumbledore in his absence. Hagrid not being fully a wizard and not having even finished school at Hogwarts, I don't think he is capable of filling in for Dumbledore. I love Hagrid and think that Dumbledore fully trusts Hagrid to perform certain errands and tasks for him, but we do not see any instances of Hagrid running things when Dumbledore has been gone.

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Sly Girl - Oct 4, 2003 9:46 am (#78 of 998)

I was thinking it had more to do with the complete trust idea, rather than Hagrid speaking for DD while he's gone....

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popkin - Oct 4, 2003 1:48 pm (#79 of 998) Reply
Edited by Oct 4, 2003 2:49 pm

I thought it was more like acting on Dumbledore's behalf - as when Hagrid went for the sorcerer's stone, when he delivered baby Harry ,and when he acted as emmisary to the giants. In these instances, I felt Hagrid had Dumbledore's full authority. You're right, though, Choices. I don't see how Hagrid could actually run the school in Dumbledore's absense. But I do think he's Dumbledore's closest ally.

Where's a dictionary when I need one? If I got all those words spelled properly, I'll be really surprised.

Another duty for the Keeper of the Keys is to guard of the city gates. I think Hagrid does serve as the head guard of the castle. However, he is also much more than that.

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Madame Librarian - Jul 28, 2004 2:20 am (#80 of 998)

All of the special tasks Hagrid undertakes for DD are loaded with huge responsibility and some risk, possibly great. Delivering Harry, getting the Sorcerer's Stone, visiting the giants all might have called for changes of plans, quick decisions, and speedy reactions, not to mention the judicious use of magic. I don't think that Hagrid is empowered to create "policy" as it were, but once he is on a mission on DD's behalf, he is given carte blanche to do what needs doing. DD shows confidence in Hagrid's ability to reason and use good judgment. Is he right? Well, we seem to debate DD's infallibility on this Forum, but that belongs on a different thread, but when I read the bits with Hagrid undertaking his missions, I visualize him as being sure of what he's up to, and proceeding without a lot of "what if, what would DD say" concerns.

Ciao. Barb

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Ricky Warner - Oct 4, 2003 10:10 pm (#81 of 998)

Yeah, I agree with Madame Librarian. Hagrid has been entrusted with HIGHLY important tasks, and has done them in a high standard.

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Lisaren - Oct 6, 2003 6:31 am (#82 of 998)

As stated by someone earlier "I would trust Hagrid with my life" I think is one of the most important lines in the series. Dumbledore seems to have given no one else that level of trust. Hagrid is sometimes indiscreet, but his loyalty to Dumbledore has never been in question at any time. Dumbledore's trust in Hagrid has also never been in doubt. I this area Hagrid is the most consistent character in the series.

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Joost! - Oct 6, 2003 6:39 am (#83 of 998)

What if "The Keys" are the Hogsmeade Quidditch Team?  

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Sinister Kittens - Oct 6, 2003 6:42 am (#84 of 998)

Joost! That made me giggle! We were discussing this earlier, can't quite remember when or where though....

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Ricky Warner - Oct 7, 2003 3:01 pm (#85 of 998)

Just browsing for HP name meanings and came across this - Hagrid means 'Giant' in one language and 'Drunk' in another. How perfect is that.

Thanks to TowerHP/name!

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MoaningMyrtle101 - Oct 10, 2003 6:52 pm (#86 of 998)

Keeper of the Keys could refer to the area where the Sorceror's Stone is kept. Hagrid might be the only one besides Dumbledore who knows exactly how to get through all of the spells guarding it! After all, no one's referred to him by that title after PS/SS, right? (Maybe it even has something to do with Flitwick's flying keys? No idea what, but those are the most important keys I can think of in PS/SS and that's where the title is actually mentioned)

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mischa fan - Oct 10, 2003 10:35 pm (#87 of 998)

I was just thinking about Hagrid as Keeper of the Keys at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. Maybe there are special times that things need to be locked up and it is Hagrid's responsibility to keep track of the keys so they have them when they need them. MoaningMyrtle101 I must disagree with you about Hagrid knowing how to get through all the spells, he doesn't seem like he is very good with magic and I think Dumbledore would feel safer about everything if only he knew how to get past everything. I think Hagrid's role in guarding the stone was lending Dumbledore Fluffy and that is it.

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popkin - Oct 10, 2003 11:18 pm (#88 of 998)

mischa fan, I don't know why people think Hagrid isn't good at magic. He isn't allowed to use it without Dumbledore's permission, but every time Hagrid uses magic he seems to get his desired result. And he uses a wand that's been snapped in half. That seems pretty good to me.

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Denise P. - Oct 11, 2003 6:27 am (#89 of 998)

popkin, I have to disagree with you. We know that a broken wand doesn't work as well, look at poor Ron and his wand. Hagrid is able to use his wand for minor things, like lighting a fire and it worked fine. He tried to turn Dudley into a pig but only managed to give him a tail. I don't think that was the desired result. I think Hagrid tries but he probably was not specifically adept at magic. More a run of the mill magical kind of guy, nothing spectacular.

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popkin - Oct 11, 2003 7:11 am (#90 of 998)

I thought the pig's tail was exactly what Hagrid wanted to accomplish. Also, the whole thing with the multiplication of Hogwarts invitations seemed pretty complicated to me.

Remember, Hagrid only has a three year magic education. Compared to Harry, Ron and Hermione after their third year, Hagrid knows lots of magic. Of course, he's a lot older than they are, and he would pick things up here and there. But, if he were to complete his formal education, I think his magical ability would be quite formidable.

I guess I'm trying to say that Hagrid shows a natural magical ability - he's got raw talent. I'd really like to see what he could do if his talent were cultivated.

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Sinister Kittens - Oct 11, 2003 8:11 am (#91 of 998)

This sounds a little silly but I always had the vague impression that Hagrids wand was never actually snapped in half, yes I know he said that he had the pieces but his Umbrella/Wand does seem rather too efficient - if that makes sense?

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zelmia - Oct 11, 2003 9:54 am (#92 of 998)
Edited Oct 11, 2003 10:55 am

(PS/SS "The Keeper of the Keys") - Hagrid: "It didn't work anyway. I meant to turn him into a pig. But I suppose he was already so much like a pig..."

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Sinister Kittens - Oct 11, 2003 2:46 pm (#93 of 998)

Ah, but did Hagrid need an efficient wand to try to turn Dudders into a pig? (Okay so I still can't do the smilie thing but if I could I would be winking right about now)

Good point Zelmia.

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popkin - Oct 11, 2003 3:58 pm (#94 of 998)

I still think he does pretty good with a three year education and a snapped in half wand.

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Blast - Oct 12, 2003 1:51 am (#95 of 998)

Hagrid is the person that takes the first years across the lake to the castle. Could the term keeper of the keys refer to this,The keys might be the first years and Hagrid is responsible for getting them to the sorting.

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S.E. Jones - Oct 12, 2003 8:35 pm (#96 of 998)

I came across this and thought it was interesting:
Southwest News, 8 July, 2000
Q: Since Hagrid's name was cleared in Book 2, will he ever be allowed to do magic openly again ? (Jan Campbell) A: He is allowed. He has been allowed to do magic openly ever since he became a teacher but because he was never fully trained his magic is never going to be what it should be. He is always going to be a bit inept.


BTW, Sinister Kittens said: "This sounds a little silly but I always had the vague impression that Hagrids wand was never actually snapped in half, yes I know he said that he had the pieces but his Umbrella/Wand does seem rather too efficient - if that makes sense?"

Could the Umbrella have something magical about it that helps to make the wand more reliable and efficient?

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Ladybug220 - Oct 13, 2003 6:55 am (#97 of 998)

Since he has been cleared, would he not be able to go to Ollivanders and get a new wand?

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Ulrikke - Oct 13, 2003 3:23 pm (#98 of 998)

It just occurred to me today when I was reading the chapter 'The Eye of the Snake' in OoP that Hagrid must be able to see Thestrals too. Who do you think he saw die?

Might be important, might not. Thoughts?

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A-is-for-Amy - Oct 13, 2003 4:22 pm (#99 of 998)

Maybe his father? It was said he died while Hagrid was in his second (or third) year. It's entirely possible that it happened when Hagrid was home for the holidays.

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Neville Longbottom - Oct 13, 2003 5:15 pm (#100 of 998)

Hagrid at least saw some giants die, during the summer. Of course he must have seen the Thestrals for longer, because Grubbly-Plank said he trained them. But Hagrid is already pretty old, there were at least two wars in his life (against Grindelwald and the Voldie-War I), so he probably had some opportunity to see death.

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zelmia - Oct 14, 2003 8:28 am (#101 of 998)

And that's a pretty rough crowd he runs with, down at the pub so...

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fidelio - Oct 15, 2003 6:22 am (#102 of 998)

As far as the fate of Hagrid's wand goes, maybe it wasn't broken at all, and the pink umbrella is to hide that fact.

In this essay, there's some discussion about the fate of Hagrid's wand: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Basically, it suggests that the broken wand might have been Moaning Myrtle's--she was dead, her family were Muggles and won't have any use for it, so it might have been easy for DD, or someone else, to hang on to it, and break it instead of Hagrid's.

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popkin - Oct 15, 2003 7:42 am (#103 of 998)

I don't have a book with me to check this, but didn't Ollivander say that Hagrid's wand was broken? I thought that perhaps Ollivander was a witness to the snapping of the wand. He would certainly know if it was actually Hagrid's that was broken.

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fidelio - Oct 15, 2003 7:45 am (#104 of 998)
Edited Oct 15, 2003 8:46 am

Maybe he'd only know if he'd seen it, and handled it--he seems to need to have his hands on the wand, if I am recalling the wand-weighing scene in GoF correctly. I suspect the incident involving Hagrid back in the day was a significant WW scandal, enough so that Ollivander wouldn't have had to be there in person to know about it--a student died as a result, and closing Hogwarts was considered, after all.

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schoff - Oct 15, 2003 7:53 am (#105 of 998)

P/SS, ch5, US83:

“Rubeus! Rubeus Hagrid! How nice to see you again....Oak, sixteen inches, rather bendy, wasn't it?”
“It was, sir, yes,” said Hagrid.
“Good wand, that one. But I suppose they snapped it in half when you got expelled?” said Mr. Ollivander, suddenly stern.
“Er--yes, they did, yes”, said Hagrid, shuffling his feet. "I've still got the pieces, though," he added brightly.
“But you don't use them?” said Mr. Ollivander sharply.
“Oh, no, sir,” said Hagrid quickly. Harry noticed he gripped his pink umbrella very tightly as he spoke.
“Hmmm,” said Mr. Ollivander, giving Hagrid a piercing look.

Judging by Hagrid's shiftiness in the scene, I'd guess his wand really is broken, and that Ollivander knows he still uses it anyways.

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fidelio - Oct 15, 2003 7:59 am (#106 of 998)

Thanks for the quote, schoff! I read it as saying 1) Ollivander knows the wand should be broken, but didn't in fact see it broken. 2) Broken or not, Hagrid shouldn't be using it, but is trying to all the same. 3). It's hidden in the umbrella--which is emphasized again in the scene in CoS where the umbrella is propped up against the wall of Hagrid's house when they are looking at the pumpkins.

It's possible [but not certain] that the wand wasn't broken. However, everyone in the WW is supposed to think that it is--and perhaps we should as well, although JKR can be so shifty when it suits her!

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popkin - Oct 20, 2003 8:28 am (#107 of 998)

I was just reading something someone said about all the dangerous creatures introduced in each book, and how they could be very important allies in future books. And I thought about how good Hagrid is with creatures, monsters in particular. And, then it hit me!

The Keeper of the Keys is the Keeper of the Creatures! ( I am laughing at myself, because I think this revelation is SO exciting.) The alliance of the Order (or of Voldemort's army) with powerful creatures will be the key factor in whether or not they will win VWII. Hagrid is the liaison to the creatures in the forest, and to the Giants, and Norbert - now with the dragons in Romania - is certain to remember his "mommy". Just about all the creatures mentioned so far (with the exception of the Dementors) have one thing in common - Hagrid loves them.

Befriending the friendless is Hagrid's special gift - and this friendship is uniquely reciprocal. We certainly see this with Aragog - his loyalty to Hagrid extends to all his descendants. But, for Harry, "friend of Hagrid", Aragog has no feelings at all - Harry and Ron will simply make a fine meal for his children.

That means that the war will turn based on Hagrid's success with the magical creatures - perhaps even more than on Harry vanquishing the Dark Lord.

Random thoughts on the same subject:

Maybe this is even part of what's behind the secret door in the DOM - something Harry has in abundance. He did, afterall, accept the friendship of Dobby, Firenze, and Moaning Myrtle and other ghosts - and they proved to be true and useful friends in time of need.

How differently it might have gone for Crouch Sr. and Sirius if they had befriended their house elves.

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Denise S. - Oct 20, 2003 4:40 pm (#108 of 998)

popkin, your idea has a good deal of merit. If this is the case, tho', I think that would mean he'd have to go out on more "diplomatic missions" in the next two books, which would be kind of a shame for us readers.

The problem with Hagrid's creatures, tho' (e.g. Aragog) is their lack of friendliness towards Hagrid's friends. If Hagrid wants to use dragons or whatnot to help defend the wizarding world, he needs to make sure that they direct their claws, fangs, and venom only towards Voldemort & Co., not to Harry or any other Friend of Hagrid.

Fawkes Forever: "It would be a cool story, but I doubt it will happen, he might go to 'knight school' instead... geddit... knight school.... *hee hee*"

*knocked over by bad joke* Aaaaaah! Ahaaa!* ^_^

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Fawkes Forever - Oct 21, 2003 1:20 am (#109 of 998)

Denise, apologies for the bad joke.... but I couldn't resist... hee hee

Joost! hee hee... The Keys, Hogsmeads' Quidditch team.... I like it! I think SK said a few posts back, with Hagrid as a keeper, no quaffle could ever get near the hoops

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Jesspy - Oct 23, 2003 8:36 pm (#110 of 998)

Maybe we will see a huge battle in book 6/7 where Hagrid is a leader of a battalion of creatures such as aragog and co, dragons, thestrals, hippogriffs, Blast-ended screwits, giants, newly reconsiled cenators. (sorry about spellings)

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timrew - Nov 5, 2003 4:19 pm (#111 of 998)

Hagrid's Horrible Hordes! That would be a sight to see, coming over the hill.....

Hagrid, followed by Giant Spiders, Blast-Ended Skrewts, Giants, Hippogriffs and Dragons.

Voldemort wouldn't be calling for his scarlet shirt, so that his DEs wouldn't see the blood.....he'd be calling for his brown corduroy trousers.

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Lenka - Nov 6, 2003 6:17 am (#112 of 998)

I thought 'Keeper of the Keys and Grounds of Hogwarts' was basically a more complicated way of saying a 'groundskeeper'. I would have never believed there was anything mysterious in that simple phrase. (Of course, you all proved me wrong.)

Okay. looked up the usually-worthless but sometimes-useful czech version (my language, btw) and translated the czech version of 'Keeper of the keys' back to english...

Result = turnkey (as in a guy who keeps the keys (in a prison ect))

Well, that was kind-of useful... Hagrid gets to keep the all the Hogwarts keys... keys of all the gates, I suppose...

Okay, enough said, I'd better go before I start blabbering...

Lenka

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timrew - Nov 7, 2003 4:06 pm (#113 of 998)

If he's the Keeper of The Keys at Hogwarts, then why does he live in a little hut away from the main building?

Or does he just have the keys to the gate?

Or does he leave all the keys to the main building under a flowerpot at the top of the steps?

I think we should be told.

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S.E. Jones - Nov 7, 2003 4:51 pm (#114 of 998)

BTW, we had been discussing how Dumbledore was able to allow Hagrid to stay at Hogwarts when he was just a teacher and the comment made by Mrs. Weasley about "the gamekeeper before Hagrid, a man called Ogg." (GoF31)

Only the Transfiguration teacher, Dumbledore, seemed to think Hagrid was innocent. He persuaded Dippet to keep Hagrid and train him as gamekeeper. (CoS17)

I think this points to Hagrid having been an apprentice to Ogg. Just my opinion, of course.....

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A-is-for-Amy - Nov 8, 2003 7:46 am (#115 of 998)

Do you think that a young Hagrid kind of "adopted" Ogg the same way that Harry has befriended Hagrid? Hagrid never mentions Ogg, but they had to have spent a lot of time together, and Ogg would have had to have been open to accepting an apprentice. I'm wondering if the Gamekeeper's Hut where Hagrid lives was built especially for him so that he would not be part of the student population after being expelled, and have a place to fit her proportions.

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Blast - Nov 8, 2003 3:03 pm (#116 of 998)

I would hate for Hagrids Horde to become the charge of the 'light brigade' over again but I can't really see all of the creatures cooperating as a smooth unit. By the way Tim , Dave Allen would of been proud.

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Sinister Kittens - Nov 8, 2003 6:13 pm (#117 of 998)

Amy, I agree. I must admit that I thought the same thing. After all, it all seems rather odd that Hogwarts would actually have a part-giant sized cottage sitting in the grounds 'just in case'.

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Lenka - Nov 9, 2003 1:53 am (#118 of 998)

This was discussed before the Great Migration.

Ogg was a caretaker. That's what Filch is now, not Hagrid.

Lenka

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A-is-for-Amy - Nov 9, 2003 9:27 am (#119 of 998)

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. On page 617 of the American paperback version of GoF, it clearly states, "Mrs. Weasley was intrigued by the Whomping Willow, which had been planted after she had left school, and reminisced at length about the gamekeeper before Hagrid, a man called Ogg."

I think that you are thinking of Pringle, who was the Care Taker who caught Arthur out after hours. Mrs. Weasley says that he's still got the marks.

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Denise P. - Nov 13, 2003 6:25 am (#120 of 998)

I was speaking to another Forumite on the phone yesterday and we started to discuss various aspects of the books (always a fun thing to do in real time, on the phone!)

We began to discuss Hagrid and I was asked HOW/WHY did Hagrid emerge from Azkaban virtually unscathed? We know he was affected, he later makes the comment he will do anything to not go back.

How did he escape the depression, the dementors kiss and go to the Hall and look/act the same? I have a theory on it but I want to hear what others think first.

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popkin - Nov 13, 2003 7:20 am (#121 of 998)

Hagrid has had to endure a tremendous amount of grief in his lifetime. He had a mother who had no interest in him, but wanted, rather, to be free of him and left. His father, who loved him dearly, died when Hagrid was very young - leaving him to fend for himself in the world. He was different from all the other kids - making him an outcast in society. He knew his giant ancestry would be cause for prejudice against him, and so, even though he was proud of his ancestry, he kept it hidden from everyone (except those like Dumbledore who knew from the outset). Another source of pride and joy was stolen from him when he was falsely accused of being responsible for the death of a girl and for several attacks on other students - and when found guilty without trial or sound evidence, he was stripped of another part of his identity - his wizardhood. He has been reduced to practicing in secrecy the little bit of magic he has managed to retain - denied his rightful education and place in society.

That's a lot for someone to come through as happily as Hagrid has. For whatever reasons (his father's love, Dumbledore's care, his connection with creatures, his own innate sense of pride), Hagrid has been learning to cope with adversity all his life - and succeeding.

Also, Hagrid has one thing in common with Sirius - who also came through Azkaban relatively unscathed. He was innocent. Sirius said that knowing he was innocent somehow helped him to retain his sanity in Azkaban. It must have done the same for Hagrid.

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Fawkes Forever - Nov 13, 2003 9:52 am (#122 of 998)

Popkin, you beat me to it

Hagrid was innocent, like Sirius. As Sirius said himself, knowing he was innocent wasn't a happy thought, so the Dementors couldn't suck it out of him (paraphrasing) It was the same with Hagrid.

Hagrid is much stronger than the average wizard, (giants blood & that), so it takes a lot more to slow him down. Then again he was in there for 2 months was it, as opposed to Sirius' 12 years! I'd say the longer you are in there, the more you would lose hope! Sirius however in his own words was pretty weak in Azkaban, but got a bit of fire in his belly after spotting Wormtail/Scabbers in the newspaper! This made him want to get his strength back to break out!

Denise P, I'd like to hear your theory on this

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popkin - Nov 14, 2003 2:06 am (#123 of 998)

Me too.

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Denise P. - Nov 14, 2003 6:05 am (#124 of 998)

I think Hagrid views the world, for the most part, through a pair of very large rose colored glasses. He is a "glass is half full" personality. Even when he is dragged off to Azkaban, he is confident, assured, positive that Dumbledore will get him out. He knows he is innocent and reason tells Hagrid that Dumbledore knows this as well and will do everything he can to secure Hagrid's release. His faith in Dumbledore and his own innocence is what sustains Hagrid while in Azkaban.

If I had to sum up the essence of Hagrid in one word, it would be faith. Hagrid is the epitome of faith. Look at how he views Grawpy...he is sure that Grawp will become a functioning, accepted member of the Hogwarts family. This goes beyond blind stupidity (although I was yelling "Hagrid, man, what are you thinking!. Look back at Hagrid and all that he had done, he has an incredible amount of faith and it is that faith that sustains him.

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Fawkes Forever - Nov 14, 2003 6:19 am (#125 of 998)

Denise...... you have summed Hagrid up perfectly! I completely agree!

Some people could argue that this is a degree of naivety on Hagrids behalf, it is as you have stated however... pure faith! He is innocent in more ways than one.

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Leprechaun Jack! - Nov 14, 2003 7:01 am (#126 of 998)

Denise

Hear, Hear... That has always been my thought too!!!!!

He reminds me of a child, very trusting,faithful and always thinking the best of everyone.

Jack

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timrew - Nov 16, 2003 12:50 am (#127 of 998)

Denise, you're right. Is it Firenze that tells Harry something like, "Tell Hagrid he will not succeed", (with Grawp) - I can't find it in the book right now?

Hagrid ignores this advice, and towards the end of the book, we find that Hagrid has (partially) succeeded, when Grawp rescues the kids from the centaurs.

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S.E. Jones - Nov 16, 2003 10:26 am (#128 of 998)

Do we know that line by Firenze was in reference to Grawp? Could it have been in reference to something else? What else was Hagrid attempting?

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Denise P. - Nov 16, 2003 10:31 am (#129 of 998)

Yep, we are meant to assume that it refers to Grawp but knowing JKR, it may refer to something else.

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timrew - Nov 16, 2003 3:18 pm (#130 of 998)

So, what else was Hagrid attempting? Ideas?

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Madame Librarian - Nov 16, 2003 3:31 pm (#131 of 998)

Something to do with Aragog, maybe? The unicorns?

I do think that at some point in the VWII conflict all the magical creatures in the Potterverse will become involved either with or against the Order. Hagrid would be the natural liaison with many of these creatures.

Ciao. Barb

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popkin - Nov 16, 2003 6:02 pm (#132 of 998)

So, Madame Librarian, are you suggesting that the attempt to form an army of unrelated creatures will fail and have disastrous results?

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Madame Librarian - Nov 16, 2003 8:14 pm (#133 of 998)

No, popkin, just that Firenze is possibly referring to something other than Hagrid's attempt to civilize Grawp. I'm not taking a stand here on the accuracy of the Centaur's comment.

But, as you asked that question, it is possible that Hagrid might be able to form a coalition with some but not all the creatures, so the attempt would not be 100% successful but not an utter failure. Disastrous results? Hmm, I don't think the whole outcome hinges on this issue. It could make for some colorful scenes and battles, or complicated intrique.

Ciao. Barb

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Inappropriate Goat Charm - Dec 5, 2003 7:26 pm (#134 of 998)

Alright, this has been bothering me for some time, and since I have been studying abroad for that last few months I haven't been able to post anything since August. In the first book, Hagrid introduces himself as "Keeper of Keys at Hogwarts." Could someone please tell me what keys he is in charge of? Aside from the keys to the two Gringott vaults they visited on Harry's first trip to Diagon Alley, I have never seen one single key in any of these books. All of the doors are magically sealed for better protection, and the only way to open them is "Alohamora" or Sirius's dagger for the trickier ones. It seems like Filch, being the caretaker as well as a squib, would be the one carrying around keys to open all of the doors, not Hagrid. If anyone can explain this to me I would love to hear it.

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shepherdess - Dec 5, 2003 8:58 pm (#135 of 998)

IGC,

This has been discussed in several places on this thread. Use the search, enter "keeper of the keys", then click on "search this discussion", and you will get a list of messages regarding Hagrid's title.

Aside from the keys to the two Gringott vaults....I have never seen one single key in any of these books.

Sure you have; remember all the flying keys in the room in the dungeon in SS?

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popkin - Dec 6, 2003 2:04 am (#136 of 998) Reply
Edited by Dec 6, 2003 2:08 am

Inappropriate Goat Charm, I am also waiting for JKR to explain exactly why she chose the title "Keeper of Keys" for Hagrid. It has so many levels of meaning. I tend to think that, for Hagrid, it has a much deeper meaning than that he is responsible for the literal keys at Hogwarts.

I hope that JKR brings up the title again before the series is over and that it isn't just a puffed-up, self-imposed title that Hagrid uses to introduced himself - as some have suggested. The three possible meanings for the title that I find most likely are:

1. Hagrid is in charge of security at Hogwarts. A similar title ("Keeper of the Keys") is used by the chief guard at the Tower of London.

2. Hagrid is Dumbledore's right hand man, not in the way that McGonagallis, as a successor to the position of Headmaster, but as a delegate or representative in important matters - such as a liason to the Giants or to transport items/persons of such importance as the Sorcerer's Stone or Harry Potter. "Keeper of Keys" in this sense is an ancient title used in walled cities by the magistrate for one trusted servant.

3. Hagrid is the Grounds"keeper", and some things on the grounds are "key" to the outcome of the story. Since Hagrid has a real way with the creatures he encounters (harbors) in the Forbidden Forest, peace with those creatures, according to Hagrid's example, could be the "key" to peace in the Wizarding World.

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Madame Librarian - Dec 6, 2003 6:27 am (#137 of 998)

popkin (I seem to commenting on your comments today), regarding point 3, there is an even deeper sense to it--Hagrid may have "key" information, not just about something at Hogwarts or the Forest, but to the whole story. Since the opening scenes with him in PS/SS, I always read with an ear perked (can human ears perk; why would you perk an ear when you're reading; oh well, the mixed metaphors of our language...?) because he often lets slip crucial bits of information about various characters and events.

Ciao. Barb

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popkin - Dec 7, 2003 3:02 am (#138 of 998)

Madame Librarian, that's an interesting observation. Do you suppose Hagrid might let a key or two slip in each book? If he does, I wonder what key(s) he might have divulged in OotP.

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katayoun - Dec 19, 2003 11:13 pm (#139 of 998)

I found something yesterday that might be confusing. i was ponding over the scene which Hagrid was talking with Riddle and i became interested in the way Hagrid addresses Tom .He uses the first name as far as I can remember. Two students especially from different houses and particularly Slytherin and Gryffindore won`t address each other by first name.  Do you think that is strange?

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popkin - Dec 20, 2003 6:41 pm (#140 of 998)

katayoun, I do think that it's unusual for students from different houses to address each other by their first names, but it's not unheard of. Ginny refers to Luna Lovegood by a nickname (Loony) at the beginning of OotP, and Justin Finch-Fletchley is always addressed by his whole name, so there are exceptions to the usual usage of the last name when referring to someone from a different house. I don't know if its remarkable that Hagrid calls Tom Riddle "Tom" instead of "Riddle".

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A-is-for-Amy - Dec 20, 2003 8:32 pm (#141 of 998)

Keep in mind, too, that Hagrid is not his first name... did he refer to him as Hagrid or Rubeus?

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katayoun - Dec 21, 2003 12:47 am (#142 of 998)

well.. dear Popkin, You know Luna is not from Slytherin and Ginny from Gryffindore. I`m merely suggesting You to se the difference . Tom Riddle a S and Hagrid a Gryffindore . well i don`t think that can`t be compared to Justin or Luna. I mean they don`t have any hostility between them. and yes Amy Tom says Rubeus.

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Sinister Kittens - Dec 21, 2003 3:14 pm (#143 of 998)

Sorry - just have to mention here that, as Tom is the Head Boy Hagrid would, probably, know of him (at least I hope so) and as Hagrid is part-giant Tom would probably know who he was anyway... (either that or they were both in Slytherin at the same time but I would not want to open that can of worms here... :-))

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mischa fan - Dec 21, 2003 4:20 pm (#144 of 998)

Actually Sinister, JK already addressed what house Hagrid was in in an interview, she said he was in Gryffindor. I think the reason for both students addressing each other by their first names is, that is how it was done 50+ years ago, I think people addressing each other by last names is a more recent thing.

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A-is-for-Amy - Dec 21, 2003 5:17 pm (#145 of 998)

You're all right! He DID call him Rubeus (my mistake), but I agree with mischa fan - times were different then. I also had friends in high school that I referred to by their last name, and some by their first, for no particular reason. I don't think there are any hidden clues there that need deciphering.

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popkin - Dec 21, 2003 8:52 pm (#146 of 998) Reply
Edited by Dec 21, 2003 8:56 pm

It does make me think, though. Hagrid definitely seemed to be hiding something when he ran into Harry on Knockturn Alley in the movie (COS), and he appeared to be keeping Aragog in a dungeon room in the same movie. I don't want to give the movies too much credence, but the familiarity between Tom R. and Hagrid, coupled with some suspicious behaviour on Hagrid's part, does make me wonder if something is going on that connects Hagrid to the dark arts or to Slytherin House - even though we know he was in Gryffindor.

I am not suggesting that Hagrid would ever purposefully do anything that would hurt Harry, Dumbledore or any of the "good guys" in the series. Dumbledore trusts him with his life, and that gives me confidence in Hagrid's strength of character. However, he does occasionally exercise poor judgement, especially when an "interesting" creature is involved.

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katayoun - Dec 21, 2003 9:58 pm (#147 of 998)

dear Sinister, Tom was not headboy in his fifth year. a head boy must be seventh year.and dear Popkin I `m not suggestin that Hagrid is a traiter. MERLIN NO!I think that they had kind of friendship.

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popkin - Dec 22, 2003 11:13 am (#148 of 998)

That's an interesting thought, katayoun. Why would Tom befriend Hagrid? Maybe he wanted to be allied with the biggest kid on the playground? But Tom is older than Hagrid... I don't know. The only way I can see Tom and Hagrid being friends would be if Tom could get something from him. Maybe Tom would use Hagrid to do things for him or to unwittingly pass information to him about the Gryffindors.

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FCBarca - Jan 9, 2004 8:51 am (#149 of 998)

Does Hagrid know that Tom Riddle is Voldemort?

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popkin - Jan 9, 2004 9:07 am (#150 of 998) Reply
Edited by Jan 9, 2004 9:08 am

If Hagrid knows, it has never been mentioned in the books. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

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Choices - Jan 9, 2004 10:50 am (#151 of 998)

I do not think that Hagrid and Tom are real friends. Tom is far more sophisticated than Hagrid - they are worlds apart in their interests. I can only see Hagrid being used by Tom under the guise of friendship.

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Devika - Jan 10, 2004 4:15 am (#152 of 998)

Tom is the epitome of prejudices... he can't befriend a foolish half-breed who is friendly with Dumbledore (I like Hagrid ok!)

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popkin - Jan 10, 2004 11:40 am (#153 of 998)

You're absolutely right, Devika. The Tom we know would never befriend Hagrid in any true sense of the word.

Except........one thing keeps gnawing at the back of my brain. I try not to pay too much attention to the movies, but I know that JKR and the screen writer talk to each other and she's shared more with him than with any other person about what's going to happen in the next books. In the movie version of COS, Hagrid and Tom do seem to react to one another as friends might - Tom seems regretful that he's turning in Hagrid and Hagrid seems to feel betrayed. That bothers me. I don't know if Tom has genuine feelings of friendship for Hagrid, but Hagrid might have been as close to a friend as he had ever had, and he might truly regret losing something of value (since Hagrid would have been a sincere friend to Tom). Maybe.

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Choices - Jan 10, 2004 5:52 pm (#154 of 998)

It might almost have been the kind of relationship Hagrid has with his dangerous creatures - he likes to mother them and the more dangerous and deadly they are, the better Hagrid seems to love them. Maybe Hagrid sensed that "dangerous and deadly" quality in Tom and sort of mothered him. Tom, the orphan, couldn't resist the "mothering" that he had missed out on as a child. So, they may have had a rather strange, familial relationship until the evil in Tom causes him to turn on Hagrid.

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popkin - Jan 10, 2004 5:57 pm (#155 of 998)

I think that's an excellent suggestion, Choices. I can see Hagrid overlooking every negative aspect of Tom until he is completely betrayed. He might even still have a soft spot for Tom that Voldemort would exploit.

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Madame Librarian - Jan 10, 2004 9:18 pm (#156 of 998)

Turn it around a bit and you have Tom seeking Hagrid's friendship for nefarious purposes. Here's this huge fellow, who probably is not exactly in the "in" group because he's, well, different, other kids are intimidated by his size, and he's lonely. Tom sees this and decides that he can befriend Hagrid for his own advantage. If Hagrid goes along with Tom's evil plans, the half-giant would be an awesome ally. Tom might even plan some use for his talent with animals. Well...actually that did come into play.

Ciao. Barb

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Sinister Kittens - Jan 11, 2004 4:05 am (#157 of 998)

I have been reading your posts with interest, especially regarding the Tom and Hagrid possibilities. Then I remembered that Hagrid was in the original Order of the Pheonix, I would have thought that (most of) the original order were aware that Tom Riddle and Lord Voldemort were the same person. If they did used to be 'friends', Hagrid would surely have lost all kindly emotions towards the younger Tom.

Hmmm, not sure that came out right. I hope you all get my meaning.

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Devika - Jan 11, 2004 6:24 am (#158 of 998)

I think Hagrid would have been surprised if anyone had turned him in. He's a very trusting person and I don't think that there is anything very striking about their encounter in the movie.

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fidelio - Jan 12, 2004 10:41 am (#159 of 998)

I agree with Devika about Hagrid's trusting nature. Remember how he got the dragon's egg? Even at the age of 11 or so, HRH could see how this was a set-up for the mysterious donor to pump him for information about Fluffy, a fact which completely escaped Hagrid until they pointed it out.

I also like the point popkin et al. raise [as well as Sinister Kittens' observation] that Tom might well have set Hagrid up to be used, by taking advantage of his nurturing tendencies and trusting disposition. Tom Riddle/Voldemort seems to have made a practice of taking advantage of people's good natures long before he announced himself as the Dark-Lord-of-the-Month selection. After all, bamboozling people may be less work than scaring them to death--plus you have the fun of knowing they've been conned when they don't realize it yet! Remember what Diary Tom tells Harry when he talks about Ginny--something about being very good about charming the people he needs to?

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Choices - Jan 12, 2004 6:11 pm (#160 of 998)

I'm certain that Tom/Voldemort was quite the charmer. Evil people often are and that is how they disarm their victims. The old "wolf in sheep's clothing" thing.

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Kip Carter - Feb 11, 2004 1:42 am (#161 of 998)

I have followed this thread and the previous threads about Hagrid and one question in my mind keeps raising its head and no one seems to have a handle on it: the word “keeper.”

JKR is an author who makes excellent use of words and yet she keeps bringing in the word "keeper" throughout her books. Why is this such a popular word with her? Think about it!

To show you what I mean, consider the following:
• 1. "The keeper of the reptile house was in shock." (book 1 at the zoo)
• 2. CHAPTER FOUR - THE KEEPER OF THE KEYS (title in book 1)
• 3. "True, I haven't introduced meself. Rubeus Hagrid, keeper  of Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts." (Hagrid's introduction in book 1)
• 4. "An' like I told yeh, I'm keeper  of Keys at Hogwarts --" (Hagrid's easy explanation of who he is from book 1)
• 5. "But Dumbledore let me stay on as gamekeeper ." (Hagrid explaining how he stayed on after he was expelled as a student in book 1)
• 6. "Now, there's another player on each side who's called the keeper  -I'm keeper  for Gryffindor. I have to fly around our hoops and stop the other team from scoring." (Oliver Wood talking about Quidditch with Harry)
• 7. "Would you mind moving out of the way?" came Malfoys cold drawl from behind them. "Are you trying to earn some extra money, Weasley? Hoping to be gamekeeper  yourself when you leave Hogwarts, I suppose -- that hut of Hagrid's must seem like a palace compared to what your family's used to." (Malfoy's insult towards Ron in book 1 - he has also belittled Hagrid when he was talking with Harry at Madam Malkin's Robes for All Occasions earlier in book 1)
• 8. "Dragons!" he whispered. "Hagrid was looking up stuff about dragons! Look at these: Dragon Species of Great Britain and Ireland; From Egg to Inferno, A Dragon keeper 's Guide." (Ron's comments to Harry and Hermione in the library when they were trying to figure how to get pass Fluffy in book 1)
• 9. "Tom the innkeeper  reappeared, wearing an apron over his nightshirt and bearing a tray of tea and crumpets. He placed the tray on a table between Fudge and Harry and left the parlor, closing the door behind him." (when Fudge is with Harry in book 3)
• 10. "An immensely complex spell," he said squeakily, "involving the magical concealment of a secret inside a single, living soul. The information is hidden inside the chosen person, or Secret-keeper , and is henceforth impossible to find -- unless, of course, the Secret-keeper  chooses to divulge it." (Professor Flitwick's explanation to those at his table in Madam Rosmerta's overheard by Harry in book 3)
• 11. ... "they found a great number of witches and wizards gathered around Basil, the keeper  of the Portkeys" ... (after the World Cup in book 4)
• 12. "Arnold Weasley, who was charged with possession of a flying car two years ago, was yesterday involved in a tussle with several Muggle law-keeper s (“policemen”) over a number of highly aggressive dustbins." (Draco reading aloud to everyone the newspaper story in the entrance hall in book 4)
• 13. "Harry saw each of the dragon keeper s pull out his wand." (Harry viewing what happening at the hidden dragon enclosure used in test 1 of the Triwizard Tournament in book 4)
• 14. "Mrs. Weasley was intrigued by the Whomping Willow, which had been planted after she had left school, and reminisced at length about the gamekeeper  before Hagrid, a man called Ogg." (This book 4 reference to the time before Hagrid's tenure as gamekeeper  could help explain much that is up in the air being that we learn about the future from the past.)
• 15. "The Imperius Curse," Moody said. "I was under my fathers control. I was forced to wear an Invisibility Cloak day and night. I was always with the house-elf. She was my keeper  and caretaker. She pitied me. She persuaded my father to give me occasional treats. Rewards for my good behavior." (Moody/Barty's remarks under the influence of Veritaserum to Dumbledore in book 4)
• 16. "- and now Dumbledore's added his protection, you'd be hard put to find a safer house anywhere. Dumbledore is Secret keeper  for the Order, you know - nobody can find Headquarters unless he tells them personally where it is -" (Sirius's explanation to Harry about Number 12 Grimmauld Place in book 5)
• 17. 'I - well - well, OK, I'll tell you, but don't laugh, all right?' Ron said defensively, turning redder with every second. 'I - I thought I'd try out for Gryffindor keeper  now I've got a decent broom. There. Go on. Laugh.' (Ron's telling Harry about his trying out for keeper  on the Gryffindor Quidditch team in book 5. This is again another of the many references to a Quidditch keeper  made throughout the entire series and Ron being the new keeper  appears to be an important part of his growth.)
• 18. `The official record was re-labelled after Voldemort's attack on you as a child,' said Dumbledore. `It seemed plain to the keeper  of the Hall of Prophecy that Voldemort could only have tried to kill you because he knew you to be the one to whom Sybill was referring.' (Part of Dumbledore's talk with Harry towards the end of book 5)
• 19. I could go on and on with reference to how JKR has inserted “keeper”  in her stories, but I felt that these would convey why I feel that “keeper”  is an important word in her books. Only time will tell!

Now that I have provided you with all of this, maybe it will get your creative juices flowing and we will have some excellent explanations from each of you on how you see the word keeper. What are your thoughts and ideas?

After much thought, I may start a new thread:   Is the word "keeper" important in JKR's books?  with this information. However, this was all originally put together because of Hagrid being the "Keeper of the Keys" and what that really means. JKR has never really explained her use of these words. What do you think?

Edit: I did start the new thread and have added a link above to the new thread and a link there back to this thread.

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Dr Filibuster - Feb 11, 2004 12:21 pm (#162 of 998)

I didn't see any special importance either Kip, that is, until now Hmm, I shall have to mull this over.

My well-thumbed Little Oxford English Dictionary says:

Keeper person who keeps or looks after something; gamekeeper; custodian of museum etc. or forest; wicket-keeper. (a wicket-keeper is a position in the sport cricket)

My first thoughts are:

Zoo-keeper, Innkeeper, (goal)keeper are not unusual words in Britain. We are a nation of shopkeepers too (according to Napoleon I think) Is the word "keeper" rarer in the US?

Your post quotes many examples so it does look a little suspicious, but there are many chapters in the whole series and therefore an awful lot of words crop up repeatedly. (Dully is my pet hate).

Winky was Barty jnr's keeper rather than nanny, babysitter or bodyguard. True, she nursed him when he was ill but her main job was having custody of him.

What else could a Dragon-keeper be called?

Secret-keeper. This is such a cool term and a good example of assonance. it's also an obvious name for someone who keeps a secret.

As for Keeper of the Keys, well it sounds slightly archaic, but more important than "key holder" which is the term we use at the bank. Are you curious why we have only seen Hagrid with one Hogwarts related key? (to the vault at Gringotts)

Should we add keeper to the list of socks, watches and hair..words that devotees take extra notice of?

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Kip Carter - Feb 11, 2004 12:52 pm (#163 of 998)

I do appreciate what each of you have added to this thread, especially what Dr Filibuster added in the previous post. It made me start thinking about where I really want to go when I start my previous post and what happened along that route.

Once I did my research, I changed my viewpoint as to what I really wanted to address, namely the job identification of "Keeper of the Keys". Hagrid first identified himself to Harry as, "True, I haven't introduced meself. Rubeus Hagrid, Keeper of Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts" and JKR had title that chapter as "CHAPTER FOUR - THE KEEPER OF THE KEYS".

I felt that somewhere in the first five books there could or should have been some explanation of "Keeper of the Keys" or JKR was saving this for a reason. Dr Filibuster was true in stating that "keeper" is a common term in England and it is also common in the United States (remember "housekeeper" and many others). But what is the significance of "the Keys"?

Hogwarts is a very interesting place and is very hard to enter. Could Hagrid be the "keeper" of the secret that probably is necessary so that a smart wizard could not find the way to break in to Hogwarts? Dumbledore is known to be very intelligent. Could he have placed with Hagrid the secret of why Hogwarts' magic properties is so unique, similar to the "secret-keeper" that Dumbledore is for Grimmauld Place or that Peter Pettigrew was to the Potters. He is much younger than Dumbledore, extremely loyal to Dumbledore, and is viewed by many as an oaf. Who would suspect Hagrid of knowing the secrets of Hogwarts? This would allow Dumbledore to operate without everything on his shoulder's only. He would have provided a continuant if something happened to him.

As you now can see, my real question should have been simply "What is the meaning of Hagrid's “Keeper of the Keys” title?" That is not a common term!

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popkin - Feb 11, 2004 2:49 pm (#164 of 998) Reply
Edited by Feb 11, 2004 3:02 pm

Kip, I have also been very interested in the term "Keeper of the Keys". It has been discussed in posts 47, 49, 75-82, 95, 107 and 136-137 of this thread. My favorite explanation is in post 75, but I think all the explanations have merit.

JKR has said that Hagrid will be present in all the books, so he's a very important (key even) character. I think he does hold "keys" to the story - especially about the events in Godric's hollow; the lag time between when Hagrid first shows up at Godric's Hollow and when he arrives at number four Privet Drive is very intriguing. I think it could be the key to the whole story. Also, Hagrid often seems to tell us things that JKR believes are important (key to her) - like "some things" (family/loyalty) are more important than keeping a job (referring to Firenze's warning about "the attempt).

I didn't realize how often JKR uses the word "keeper" in the series until your post. It really must be an important word. I hope that at some point JKR explains what she means by the title she has given Hagrid.

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Kip Carter - Feb 11, 2004 6:24 pm (#165 of 998)

popkin, I had read each of the posts that you pointed out a number of times and I still felt that our discussions had not really stayed in focus being that Hagrid is a somewhat complex character with many unknowns. I may have approached this subject differently than others; but I felt that if we could get some additional minds involved, maybe there would be a chance of establishing something with a little bit more substance behind it. It appeared that members had become stifled and this thread had not had a post in almost a month. I was in hopes of trying to get those creative juices flowing in some of our members' minds. At least this thread has received some interest and maybe others will add their two knuts along the way. So I took a chance of rattling a few cages.

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dasmitts - Feb 18, 2004 9:09 pm (#166 of 998)

Can't remember if this little scene happens in the book or not. But I was wondering:

Chamber of Secrets, when Harry and Ron use the invisibility cloak to sneak to Hagrid's Hut. Hagrid opens the door with a cross bow. Harry and Ron remove the cloak and Hagrid says something like "Oh, it's you. I was expecting.....nevermind come on in." At first I thought he was expecting people to come for him to be taken to Azkaban. But he went to the door on the second knock, and he was just as surprised to see Dumbledore and Fudge. So I figured it was that, that he was expecting either. So my question is, is what/who was he expecting?

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Choices - Feb 19, 2004 10:17 am (#167 of 998)

May I add....who or what was he expecting that he was prepared to shoot with a cross-bow?

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haymoni - Feb 19, 2004 1:21 pm (#168 of 998)

I think he WAS expecting to be hauled off to Azkaban.

He trusts Dumbledore so completely that he was thrown off when he saw him standing there with Fudge. Certainly his defender Dumbledore would not let anything happen to him.

I find it odd that it only took Fudge & Dumbledore to take Hagrid to Azkaban yet Umbridge needed a posse of MOM wizards.

I read the article with Robby Coltrane listed on The Leaky Cauldron site. Mr. Coltrane mentions that JKR gave him added info regarding Hagrid's past. Do you think he, like the character he plays, might let something slip???

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dasmitts - Feb 19, 2004 1:48 pm (#169 of 998)

I can't see Hagrid using a cross-bow to protect himself from being taken to Azkaban. Protecting his life maybe. But Azkanban? Hagrid is a kind and gentle soul. He did give himself up really easily, when they did take him away.

No...I think there is an underlying story we don't know about. And yes its connected to the a) flesh eating bug repellants b) he's closeness to dangerous creatures. and b) what I call his "protection" of Dumbledore by just being a "permenant resident" of Hogwarts.

My silly notion is that he is hiding from something, and has been for some time. Could it be Voldemort? who knows..But there is something going on with him..

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Madame Librarian - Feb 19, 2004 4:36 pm (#170 of 998)

Is it something that involves the Forbidden Forest, perhaps? You have to admit that Hagrid has a strange yet intimate relationship with that place. He knows its secrets and dangers quite well, it seems. I don't think we've met all the creatures that dwell there, nor all the bizarre magic that originates from there. Time will tell.

Ciao. Barb

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popkin - Feb 19, 2004 7:28 pm (#171 of 998)

The only creatures in the forbidden forest that I know Hagrid does not really get on with are the centaurs. I don't think they would come to his hut, though, since they are very solitary and territorial. They might try to kick Hagrid out of the forest, but I don't think they'd go looking for trouble.

Do you think maybe Hagrid was expecting Lord Voldemort/Tom Riddle? Since the chamber had been opened again, and since he knew that Tom Riddle was the heir of Slytherin (or did he?), maybe he thought Lord Voldemort had risen again.

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dasmitts - Feb 19, 2004 8:31 pm (#172 of 998)

Could be...But I am thinking even before (or perhaps the very reason why) he got the job at Hogwarts....

what he fears may or may not be in the forest.....UNLESS!!!! It has something to do with the centaurs.....hmmmmmmm....

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dasmitts - Feb 19, 2004 8:37 pm (#173 of 998)

popkin...Could be....

Then that means that there was something going on between Hagrid and Voldemort before. Im talking before the Tom R. opening of the COS 50 years ago. There had to be a stint between them two. Which in turn caused Tom to frame Hagrid. Tom/Voldemort must have given Hagrid some special warning to be on the look out for him. If not Tom/Voldemort themselves then maybe something that could be afraid of some dangerous creature. That we know Hagrid likes to keep close by.

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haymoni - Feb 20, 2004 6:04 am (#174 of 998)

Dumbledore said that very few people remember that Voldemort was once Tom Riddle.

Would Hagrid have forgotten that the guy who framed him became the Dark Lord? It doesn't seem possible, being in the Order and all. Yet he doesn't seem to connect the two people. I mean, if he could hardly bring himself to say "Voldemort" and couldn't spell it, why wouldn't he have said, "You know, we were at Hogwarts together. His name was Tom Riddle back then..."

If Tom's obsession with purebloods existed when he was at Hogwarts, he certainly would have had a problem with a half-giant. Maybe that's what caused conflict between the two.

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popkin - Feb 20, 2004 6:22 am (#175 of 998)

Hagrid knows that Riddle framed him for opening the chamber, but he might not know that he went on to become Voldemort.

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fidelio - Feb 20, 2004 7:41 am (#176 of 998)

It may also all have been so horrible that he can't stand to talk about it. He really just skims over the fact that he was expelled from Hogwarts--he never gives the details--we know the details because of what Harry Learned from Tom Riddle, not from anything Hagrid's ever said. As dreadful as he finds Voldemort, I can see why he might not mention that he knew him way back when--you'll notice McGonagall doesn't mention anything about having known Tom Riddle in school either, and she was probably in her last couple of years when Tom was in his first couple. Either no one but Dumbledore and Harry [and Lucius Malfoy] have made this connection, or those who have [or who have been told about it] just don't talk about it.

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Madame Librarian - Feb 20, 2004 7:51 am (#177 of 998)

You know how Hagrid is always letting slip some key tidbit of information (eh, I shouldna said tha')? Of course in terms of the plot, if he didn't do this, the story might get nowhere. What if there are some things that Hagrid, who may be putting on a bit of an act so that people underestimate him, would never let slip? He and DD are quite capable, thank you very much, of not saying things that really need to be kept under wraps.

Just a thought of some trick JKR may have up her authorial sleeve.

Ciao. Barb

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MrsGump - Feb 20, 2004 8:09 am (#178 of 998)

I think Hagrid had the crossbow because he was expecting the monster to be sneaking around. After all, he is a half-blood, so could be on the hit list. It wasn't only students being attacked. Aragog never told Hagrid what it was, so he had no idea what to look for. Plus, his roosters were being killed, so he might have assumed the monster could come down to his hut.

And I got the feeling that not too many people outside the inner, DE circle knew that Tom Riddle and Voldemort are the same person.

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popkin - Feb 20, 2004 10:10 am (#179 of 998) Reply
Edited by Feb 20, 2004 10:13 am

MrsGump, that's a good point about the roosters. Hagrid knows an awful lot about creatures, and the more magical and interesting they are, the better. A basilisk would be very interesting to Hagrid, and he might have put two and two together when the first rooster died. Certainly he would have figured out it was a basilisk when the spiders started fleeing to the forest.

And Madame Librarian, you're right, too. Hagrid is not a dumb man, and Dumbledore trusts him more than any other. Dumbledore may have entrusted Hagrid to let a few clues "slip" in SS/PS.

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HarrysAngel - Feb 20, 2004 11:38 am (#180 of 998)

Like most of the previous posters, I'm sure there's more to Hagrid's role than we know. Why give him a title like 'Keeper of the Keys' (and give a chapter on PS/SS that title too) and then never mention it again??

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Madame Librarian - Feb 20, 2004 12:02 pm (#181 of 998)

Hmmm, Keeper of the Keys. Keys as in clues, keys to the truth, key pieces of information during a crisis. Lots of fodder there.

Also, everyone, scooch over to the thread about the use of the word keeper that was started by our fearless leader, Kip, about a week ago-- Devika "Is the word "keeper" important in JKR's books?" 2/11/04 2:10am

Ciao. Barb

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Dr Filibuster - Feb 20, 2004 12:58 pm (#182 of 998)

So, Hagrid's backstory could include:

Specific details on how Dumbledore got Rubeus his jobs at Hogwarts.

More information on all Hagrid's responsibilities, especially the "keeper of the keys"

Why Dumbledore trusts Hagrid so much.  Did something happen to test this?

Does Hagrid have a vital role in the forest? How did he get to know the forest inhabitants so well?

Is there anything more we should know about his parents?

Is there any significant past connection with the Malfoy family? Hagrid comes from somewhere in the south west of England, Malfoy Mansion is in Wiltshire.

Was he really only buying flesh-eating slug repellant in Knockturn Alley?

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dasmitts - Feb 20, 2004 9:23 pm (#183 of 998)

Dr Filibuster.........

Your questions about sums it up...JKR has probably placed the answers to every question (well almost, anyway) on this entire web site, in the hands of Dumbledore, Hagrid, the Longbottoms, and believe it or not...Petunia Dersly....

My thinking, anyway....hmmmm...

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Julia. - Mar 8, 2004 1:02 pm (#184 of 998)

You're right Dasmitts, JKR has probably places the entire back-story of the Potterverse in those five characters, and probablySnape as well.

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Psychedelic Enchantress - Mar 13, 2004 4:58 am (#185 of 998) Reply
Edited by Mar 13, 2004 4:59 am

To refer to several posts back, I don't think it is so strange that if Hagrid knows Tom Riddle was Voldemort, he doesn't refer to him. When an awful act is committed, people do tend not to mention its perpetrators, particularly if anyone involved is still around. At my old school one of the parents killed herself and her two children- one of whom was a pupil at the school. The girl who died had a cousin in my class, but no one ever mentioned the tragedy.

Which has always made me wonder at the comparative ease there seems to be in mentioning Sirius, despite what he's said to have done. Is it because Voldemort = Tom is a relatively obscure piece of information? Or the fear of him extends to not talking about him? Or because Sirius is more recent and- more importantly for that book's plotline- on the run?

Hagrid's reaction to the snippets on Sirius's behaviour ("I COMFORTED THE MURDERING TRAITOR!") is interesting. If we assume he does know that Tom became Voldemort, does he see his belief in Sirius (justified, but he doesn't know that) as another example of personal failure? Or, in a wider context, letting Harry down (if Tom had been caught and apprehended fifty years ago, Harry would still have parents?)

Sorry if this seems confused!

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vball man - Mar 22, 2004 7:09 pm (#186 of 998)

Two things about Hagrid that I was thinking:

1. Why Hagrid has DD's trust? maybe Hagrid's father was killed by Grindelwald. DD's defeat of Grindelwald would be very important to Hagrid.

2. Hagrid seems to live up to his stereotype. Half-giant - so he's supposed to me mean and dumb, right? Well, he rather is. I mean, he doesn't seem like a deep thinker. Trying to raise a dragon was just crazy. And he does have a mean streak: "never insult Albus DD in front of me!" Yelling in PoA. Assaulting KarKaroff.

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Zoe's dad - Mar 22, 2004 10:22 pm (#187 of 998)

I can't help but think that there is a connection to Hagrid going to Azkaban in book 2, and Sirius Black breaking out out of Azkaban in book 3. Is it possible that Hagrid crying out in anguish over comforting Sirius after the attack on James and Lily was just an act? Is it possible that while Hagrid was in Azkaban that he and Sirius talked, and that maybe, just maybe, this was all a plan of Dumbledore's design? Dumbledore never once in the books, at least from what I have seen, ever distrusted Sirius. He even helped Harry and Hermione to save him. We know that Dumbledore sends Hagrid on special missions. This would tie into Dumbledore saying that he would trust Hagrid with his life. No other person in the books, except for Snape, is sent on these kind of missions. I think Hagrid has far more power than JKR is letting on. Remember, magic is not the only kind of power in the wizarding world, there is also loyalty, kindness, and love. All of which Hagrid has in spades.

Hagrid is also one of the 2 or 3 closest adults to Harry in the books. I was he who first introduced Harry to the wizarding world. Would Dumbledore trust that to just anyone? There is a reason for everything Dumbledore does, and this is no exception. He is Harry's first true friend, this is stated in PS/SS. Hagrid is a fried even before Ron and Hermoine, and is the first one to bring out Harry's since of loyalty, when Draco insults Hagrid for no reason other than elitist snobbery.

In my opinion, I think Hagrid would rather die than see anything bad happen to Harry. Remember when Hagrid brought Harry to Privet drive, and was crying when he left him with the Dursleys? I think Hagrid knew what Harry was in for growing up, and although he knew it was a necessity, did not like the thought. I believe Dumbledore explained to Hagrid why Harry was going there. This tells me that Hagrid is one of Dumbledore MOST trusted allies.

I do not however think that, as some have suggested, that Hagrid is in cahoots with Voldie. Dumbledore has been said to be a good legilimens (forgive the spelling on this one), and could easily see if Hagrid was lying.

Sorry to ramble on this way, I just had to put in my two cents worth.

Dan

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Choices - Mar 23, 2004 10:23 am (#188 of 998)

I don't see "never insult Albus Dumbledore in front of me" as having a mean streak, but as having extreme loyalty to and love for the man. I adore Hagrid - he may not be book smart, but he has his priorities in order and has the wisdom and instincts about people and animals that a man of nature has in abundance. He is good, kind, loving and fiercely loyal and just the type of guy I'd want on my side in a battle or just as a friend.

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Dr Filibuster - Mar 23, 2004 12:23 pm (#189 of 998)

Zoe's Dad,

That's an interesting theory about Hagrid being connected to Sirius's escape from Azkaban.

Personally, I think it was just Rowling's way of introducing us to the Wizard Prison before the third book.

Harry, and us readers, are aware that Azkaban is exclusively for the wizard world and not a jolly gaol to be incarcerated. Hagrid is scared of going, and once he returns he doesn't talk about it..because it was so horrid.

When he reads the paper on the Knight Bus, Harry recognises the picture of Black and recognises Azkaban as a wizard prison. He realises that Black must be a wizard.

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vball man - Mar 23, 2004 4:20 pm (#190 of 998)

Choices, I see what you mean about "never insult..." not being a mean streak. Let me explain what I mean. Many people who are large (I'm 6'7") tend to exaggerate their gentleness physically since even moderate things can seem scary, especially to kids. I see Hagrid this way. He comes across as very gentle because he's always trying to be gentle. I think that when push comes to shove, Hagrid will kick some butt. When he means to hurt someone I think he'll be surprizingly scary. We should see soon.

So maybe it's too much to say he has a mean streak. But I think that he's always trying to suppress that side of himself.

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Choices - Mar 23, 2004 5:47 pm (#191 of 998)

I definitely see what you are saying vball man. I think Hagrid does exactly that, but if push came to shove, he would be an awesome fighter.

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Lisaren - Mar 23, 2004 6:07 pm (#192 of 998)

We have already seen a small indication of Hagrid's ability in a fight during is battle in OOP when they are trying to remove him on Umbridge's orders. He may not throw out curses, but he can withstand many curses while physically putting his enemies out.

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NYCNomad - Mar 26, 2004 7:33 am (#193 of 998)

I think Vball and Choices have some good points. He's half-giant, or half-human, pending your point of view. Part of his genetics and nature is wild, barbaric, fierce and overwelming in a fight. Why do you think wizards are so scared of giants? If they could just be stunned even a 4th yr student could take one down. They are scary because they have some resistance to magic and a ferocity that can be devistating. But Hagrid is also half human, with a couple good role models in his life. His father, who was married(?) to a giant female. That shows a severe lack of prejudice and good charisma. And Dumbledore. He has an affinity for wild beasts as those who know his lineage treat him like a beast, so he understands that not all with fangs are vicious, and not all who drool are wild. But on a completely different note, I would like to mention something that REALLY stood out to me in the books and the movie. If it's been mentioned already, my apologies. But there is a close up at a very key moment, and it is plainly stated in SS/PS "The key to any beast is knowing how to calm it." It could be referring only to Fluffy, but I think it was meant for us to remember. I think that it will come back in the next couple books against some very important beast. Thoughts?

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Choices - Mar 26, 2004 9:01 am (#194 of 998)

The key to any beast is knowing how to calm it........

Oh, that made Voldemort immediately come to mind. I know there will be a key to defeating (or calming) him. Good catch!!

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Madame Librarian - Mar 26, 2004 10:48 am (#195 of 998)

I'm laughing now because one of the ploys my son uses on my when I'm on a rant about something or other that he's done (or not done, more likely) is this--he looks me straight in the eye, pats me gently on the shoulder and says in a soothing voice, "Mom, calm down." No matter how irked I am, I can't help cracking up. So, I guess Hagrid is absolutely correct. I am the Mom-beast. ("Take out that garbage NOW, or you're grrrr-rounded for LIFE!.")

Seriously, I do think NYCNomad is on to something here. A teeny little throwaway line turns out to be the key to it all...maybe.

Next question: what would make Voldie calm?

Ciao. Barb

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NYCNomad - Mar 26, 2004 10:55 am (#196 of 998)

I'm not really thinking Voldemort, but I am thinking Nagini, (sp?). While Volde is a beast, I'm keeping it to animal beasts, as a personal choice. Oh.. Oh!!! I just had a thought!! What about the snake Harry set free in book one? Has anyone determined what kind of snake Nagini is? Perhaps he wants a mate? The zoo snake has been mentioned twice, and I guess its use could be over, but what if the zoo snake comes back to help Harry sooth Nagini by befriending him. That is love, which is something Volde can't offer Nagini!! Anyone?

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The giant squid - Mar 26, 2004 10:58 am (#197 of 998)

A teeny little throwaway line turns out to be the key to it all...      maybe.

Well, Hagrid is Keeper of Keys, after all.

--Mike

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Prefect Marcus - Mar 26, 2004 11:04 am (#198 of 998)

I just checked the book. Hagrid says, "Fluffy's a piece o' cake if yeh know how to calm him down,..."

So the "secret of any beast" comment is from the movie, not the books.

Sorry. :-(

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NYCNomad - Mar 26, 2004 11:09 am (#199 of 998)

Are you sure? Not to doubt you, but... let me check my note/copy. What version do you have? Perhaps it's one of those small variations.

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NYCNomad - Apr 5, 2004 11:31 am (#200 of 998)

OK, I found the passage I was referring to. I built it up in my mind, but in my version, British Trade Paperback, page 194, top paragraph, Hagrid says; "So I told him, Fluffy's a piece o' cake if yeh know how to calm him, jus'play him a bit o' music an' he'll go straight off ter sleep-"

Well, I was mistaken in that it was not over emphasized in the book, but, he mentions it in reference to all animals. Maybe I'm backpedaling to try to save my own face, but I'm not quite willing to let go of that theory quite yet.

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rambkowalczyk - Apr 7, 2004 5:53 am (#201 of 998)

“The key to any beast is knowing how to calm it” describes Hagrid's personality even if it turns out not to be an actual quote in any of the books. I checked in POA where Hagrid was disappointed that no one figured out how to open the ferocious book and it wasn't there. Just that the books had to be stroked in a certain way. Hagrid's desire to raise dragons is his hope that he will find the secret of calming dragons.

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NYCNomad - Apr 7, 2004 7:00 am (#202 of 998)

Very possible. Just the way it keeps coming back. Scary beasts that are quite likable as long as you know how to work with them. Buckbeak, Aragog, Fluffy, the monster book, thestrals, ect. I think Harry is going to catch onto that. It might be useful for when LV tries to do a hostile takeover, and Harry/Hagrid/Dumbledore know how to work with/calm the "beasts". I think it could even apply to Lupin. He still changes to the wolf, but with the potion he is able to curl up under the desk and stay calm.

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NYCNomad - Apr 12, 2004 5:28 am (#203 of 998)

Sorry if I'm bring up old discussions, but was anything decided about whether or not Hagrid will get a new wand now that he is allowed to? And what was the problem in the fourth book with Olivander and his wand. He was cleared of all charges, why can't he gat a new wand?

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Detail Seeker - Apr 12, 2004 7:22 am (#204 of 998)

Well, he did not finish his education to at least OWL-level. I could imagine this as a necessity to be allowed to have a wand and being allowed to do magic in the public.

Pure bureaucracy (bureau-crazy ?), but that may be the main problem. Hagrid is a case not covered adequately by the laws existing. And Fudge does not have an interest in changing this - up to now at least.

I remember, there was a thread about Hagrid formally finishing his education long, long ago, but this has gone to the data cemetary aeons ago, too.

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Catherine - Apr 12, 2004 8:16 am (#205 of 998)

I imagine that the public revelation (gee, big shock!) that Hagrid is part-giant will not help him regain wand privileges.

Fudge, prejudiced little wart that he is, was only too happy to take Hagrid to Azkaban in CoS. I got the sense that Lucius Malfoy (remember the remarks Draco made about Hagrid to Harry in Madame Malkin's shop in SS before they ever arrived at Hogwarts?) has wanted Hagrid out of the way for a while. Same with Umbridge--I think she wanted to get "a half-breed" loyal to Dumbledore out of the school.

After Rita's article, I'm not sure that there are too many folks in the Ministry who would flout public opinion about giants to assist Hagrid in getting a working wand.

I think Detail Seeker has a point about a wizard needing to be "qualified" in order to have a wand. It seems like one's wand is snapped when one is expelled from Hogwarts. (Off topic note: the centaurs did that for good ol' Dolores! HA!)

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NYCNomad - Apr 13, 2004 5:29 am (#206 of 998)

I'm just thinking he was cleared of all charges. And he was previously admitted to Hogwarts, but he was expelled. I'm just thinking that he would want to go back to school and be a true wizard. I'm pretty sure he has the "umph" for it, and he does have the desire. He has keps his broken wand for how many years? Why doesn't he get a new one? Am I just bringing up old topics here? I don't want to be redundant, but these are things I would like to know.

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Thom Matheson - Apr 13, 2004 9:58 am (#207 of 998)

Nomad

I brought this up about a year ago on the other board. I don't think that we have it even archived it has been so long ago. The gist was the same as your premise. He was found not guilty and therefore should not have been expelled. My thought at the time was that the picture of Headmaster Dippet was in DD's office and could be questioned and therefore DD could reinstate him and allow for a new wand.

The comments ranged from "he is now a teacher and would not need to go back to school and finish, to he is too old. I stated that DD in his school song says that you are never too old to go to school, I was shot down with my theory. Then the topic sort of strayed into would you get a "graduation" diploma type of deal and that there isn't one available anyway and the topic sort of faded out.

I would like to restore the debate and move that this body reinstate Rubeus Hagrid and allow him to finish honorably with a new wand.

Hagrid, Hagrid, Hagrid.

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Dr Filibuster - Apr 13, 2004 2:35 pm (#208 of 998)
Edited Apr 13, 2004 3:38 pm

I can just see Book 6 now...

There's Ginny telling HRH how she was sitting in her first class of the year with Binns. All of a sudden...."Budge up a bit will yer Colin," said a familiar voice as Hagrid squeezed his large frame onto a chair in the back row. Two minutes later she realised that the deafening noise of an engine revving was in  fact the sound of a half-giant snoring.

And that's before we start thinking about Potions.

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NYCNomad - Apr 14, 2004 6:17 am (#209 of 998)

I really agree Thom. You're never to old to go back to school. I've been making my life constantly going back to school. My best friend couldn't do it enough so now he's teaching at a school cause he loved it so much. As for not needing it, he could learn to apparate, transfigure, potions, all sorts of things, that he doesn't need to is foolishness.

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DJ Evans - Apr 14, 2004 2:59 pm (#210 of 998)

If Hagrid should (& could) go back to school--wonder if he'd bring his brother "Grawp" along too? Can you just imagine that class? I mean, with two giants taking up space in the classroom--how many other students would fit in there?

Later days, Deb

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Thom Matheson - Apr 14, 2004 4:07 pm (#211 of 998)

Grawp would have to get his letter and be able to show that he has magical abilities

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Tomoé - Apr 14, 2004 5:18 pm (#212 of 998)

Er ... was giant not allowed to use wand?

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Ydnam96 - Apr 19, 2004 5:30 pm (#213 of 998)

So I have a question...if Squibs can get a correspondence course for wizardry why can't Hagrid get his "education" through a correspondence course similar to the one that Filch was looking at earlier in the series? It seems that if Squibs can be allowed to learn magic and get wands, Hagrid should have the chance too.

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Choices - Apr 19, 2004 5:37 pm (#214 of 998)

Everyone seems quite taken with the idea of Hagrid being able to do magic and have a "legal" wand. I think Hagrid gets along very well as he is and is quite content with the life he leads right now. He really doesn't strike me as the sort to enjoy books and school and now that he is older and settled, I think he likes things just as they are. He has never indicated a desire to go back to school and have a proper wand. The one he has serves his purposes and what he lacks in magical ability, he more than makes up for in size and strength. Hagrid has a way with the land and with creatures, so what does he need with book learning? He is smart in his own unique way.

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Madame Librarian - Apr 19, 2004 7:09 pm (#215 of 998)

Hear, hear, Choices. Plus, why get a new wand when the umbrella suits him fine and is so handy to have in the damp English climate.

Ciao. Barb

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megfox - Apr 20, 2004 5:43 am (#216 of 998)
Edited Apr 20, 2004 6:43 am

Besides, I'm pretty sure that Dumbledore knows what is up with the umbrella, and he hasn't tried to stop Hagrid from using it. I agree with Choices, and I believe that Hagrid has his place in a community that is comfortable for him. He seems to be the kind of person for whom that is enough in life.

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NYCNomad - Apr 20, 2004 6:29 am (#217 of 998)

I'm not saying that he needs it. I fully agree that he gets along very well just as he is. But I also feel he would become a much more potent force if he were to have a legal wand, and perhaps an owl post course. It has certain limitations having an illegal wand hidden in your umbrella. He was supposed to have thrown away his wand, so how would he do magic if an official was around? He's gotten by without it, but wouldn't it make life easier being allowed to perform magic? Like when he was with Grawp? If he was able to apparate as a legal wizard he could have gotten there in no time at all.

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Catherine - Apr 20, 2004 6:44 am (#218 of 998)

Even if Hagrid was "legally" allowed to do magic, and qualified to take the apparating test, it might be beyond him, anyway. Plenty of wizards don't bother with it!

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NYCNomad - Apr 20, 2004 8:24 am (#219 of 998)

Ok, but what about other things? He isn't even allowed the simplest charm while entertaining company. It isn't needed and he gets along fine either doing it in stealth, or without it. But it would make life so much simpler.

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Thom Matheson - Apr 20, 2004 10:12 am (#220 of 998)

These last few posts remind me of the discussion we had last time. Catherine Allen, how will anyone know, including Hagrid, unless it is tried. Why be so quick to assume that he couldn't do it. Choices, it was booklearning that taught him to properly hatch and care for Norbert. I would hate to think where some people would be if they had not gone back to school. Also a great human interest story that a half giant wanted to better himself. Think of all the people that are wrongly accused and get to "come back". Sirius comes to mind. I will agree that such a proposal would not necessarily change JKR's story line, I just think that it would be cool, and, it's the right thing to do. It is also right up Dumbledore's alley with the whole second chance thing.

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NYCNomad - Apr 20, 2004 10:25 am (#221 of 998)

I agree Thom. I don't feel it is NEEDED for the story or to make him a strong character. But it would be a good extra.

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mike miller - Apr 20, 2004 1:45 pm (#222 of 998)

Who's to say DD has not been giving Hagrid a little private tutoring over the past 50 years. I think Hagrid knows what works for him and what he needs. There are lots of wizards that do not benefit from a formal Hogwarts education.

Hagrid can handle himself, how many people did Umbridge bring with her to oust Hagrid? How many stunning spells simply bounced off his back?

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Catherine - Apr 20, 2004 5:09 pm (#223 of 998)

Whoa, here! I'm beginning to see Thestrals...

I never said he couldn't. I just mentioned that Hagrid's true abilities may not lie in doing wand work. I agree that it would be nice if he were allowed to do magic legally, and with a wand that was not lodged in a pink umbrella.

He does sneak magic when he wants to. He gave Dudley a tail, and used an engorgement charm on his pumpkins in CoS. I think that Hagrid probably uses that pink umbrella more than what Harry sees day to day.

My point from the early post was that many wizards find apparating a little daunting, and that Hagrid might be among those wizards.

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JKR4PM - Apr 20, 2004 9:52 pm (#224 of 998)

Where in canon does it say that Hagrid can't do magic now that he has been cleared? I was always under the assumption that when he told Harry in PS/SS that he was not permitted to do magic that it was a part of his punishment for the events 50 years prior. (Whoa, long sentence.)

“I was allowed ter do a bit ter follow yeh an' get yer letters to yeh an' stuff- “ (SS, Am. paperback pp.59) It seems that the MoM isn't exactly tracking the magic use of an individual who was expelled 50 years ago anyway.

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Tomoé - Apr 20, 2004 10:52 pm (#225 of 998)

I remember I read an interview where JKR said Hagrid is now allowed to do magic, but I didn't find the quote again yet.

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NYCNomad - Apr 21, 2004 5:07 am (#226 of 998)

Right, he is allowed to use magic. I used apparating as an example. I guess it would be possible for DD to be giving him private lessons. But he could get a new want that wasn't broken, go to some classes and learn some more transfiguration. Simply put, with no disrespect intended. He didn't finish the equivalent of High School. And though he was kicked out/expelled, he has the education of a high school drop out, in the wizarding world. He never even took the OWL's.

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Denise P. - Apr 21, 2004 5:27 am (#227 of 998)

There was an interview where JKR said Hagrid could now do magic, he is just not very good at it.

Interview with JKR 8 July 2000

Q: Since Hagrid's name was cleared in Book 2, will he ever be allowed to do magic openly again ? (Jan Campbell)

A: He is allowed. He has been allowed to do magic openly ever since he became a teacher but because he was never fully trained his magic is never going to be what it should be. He is always going to be a bit inept.

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Tomoé - Apr 21, 2004 8:25 am (#228 of 998)

Thanks Denise (I shouldn't add "wand" in my search)

Maybe Hagrid doesn't change his wand because his father bought it.

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NYCNomad - Apr 21, 2004 8:31 am (#229 of 998)

Is it possible to fix wands? Maybe talk to Olivander and do something more than spellotape?

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Psychedelic Enchantress - Apr 21, 2004 11:29 am (#230 of 998)

Sorry I've been away for ages, I've just come back to uni...

I personally love the idea of Hagrid taking classes with Ginny and her friends, but it seems unlikely, in view of JK's comments. And there's his teaching to contend with. True, he only teaches third years and up, and once they've done their OWLS, some will drop Care of Magical Creatures, but I should imagine his hands are full concentrating on that. He's been content for fifty years gamekeeping and using (illicitly or otherwise) the spells he knows, so why change that now?

And imagine Hagrid Apparating on top of you! If Charlie Weasley appearing out of thin air was frightening . . .

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Choices - Apr 22, 2004 8:31 am (#231 of 998)
Edited Apr 22, 2004 9:34 am

NYC - I think it would depend on how badly broken the wand is. Ron's obviously was not repairable - either that or he did a bad job of aligning the jagged ends with the spell-o-tape so that it caused great damage when he tried to use it. Now, Hagrid's wand was evidently broken pretty cleanly and Hagrid was able to accurately put it back together because it seems to work very well for him and is quite handy when it rains. LOL It makes you wonder if another wizard could repair a broken wand (like Hermione repairs Harry's glasses in the movies) using "reparo".....I guess not, or Hermione would surely have helped Ron out by repairing his wand.

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Loopy Lupin - Apr 22, 2004 8:54 am (#232 of 998)

I dunno there must be something about "snapping" the wand that renders it at least less useful than it was before. Hagrid can, apparently, do some magic with the pieces he has.

(Side query: Isn't it wholly unfair that expulsion would include "wand snapping." So what if someone is expelled from Hogwarts, they're still a wizard even if an uneducated wizard. Wouldn't they still need their wand?)

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haymoni - Apr 22, 2004 10:06 am (#233 of 998)

I wonder who else has been expelled.

I mean if the Marauders didn't get expelled and the Weasley Twins never got expelled, there can't be too many students that were.

Hagrid was accused of causing the death of another student, not pelting her with dungbombs.

That is a pretty serious crime. He could have been sent to Azkaban. Maybe the "wand snapping" was a better option.

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NYCNomad - Apr 22, 2004 10:27 am (#234 of 998)

If Hagrid’s wand was snapped, there must be a way of repairing it. Like Choices said, Ron broke his wand and it was pretty defunked. Hagrid seems to do what he intends it to do, (within limitations). I wonder if he read up on how to fix wands. Like he did reading on Dragons. If that's the case, he could be doing some more reading in his free time, like continuing education stuff, right?

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haymoni - Apr 22, 2004 10:42 am (#235 of 998)

I keep trying to picture his broken wand in that pink umbrella. Is it held together in there somehow? Was the wand transfigured into the pink umbrella?

He was able to make the boat move a bit quicker and he helped the pumpkins along a bit. He tried to turn Dudley into a pig but Dudley was already so much like a pig, all he was missing was the tail.

I think Hagrid's wand works just fine. It's just a pink umbrella now.

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mike miller - Apr 22, 2004 10:56 am (#236 of 998)
Edited Apr 22, 2004 11:58 am

I would remind everyone of 2 facts related to Hagrid, his wand and his magical abilities:

1) Dumbledore trusts Hagrid and has always believed in his innocence related to Myrtle's death.

2) Hagrid has worked at Hogwarts for over 50 years with Dumbledore there the entire time. I think there have been more than enough opportunities for Dumbledore to make sure Hagrid has progressed in his magical abilities since being expelled.

I think it is safe to say that Hagrid is both capable and possesses the necessary tools (Yes Haymoni - it's just a pink umbrella..") to perform more magic than we've seen. His physical size and strength mean that when other wizards need magic, he can just do it! We don't know for certain how he travels, but Tom at the Leaky Cauldron seems to know him well enough so it doesn't seem to be a problem.

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vball man - Apr 24, 2004 7:47 pm (#237 of 998)

Maybe its new wood - old core. There are wand trees in the forbidden forest. Maybe Hagrid made his own wand.

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The giant squid - Apr 24, 2004 10:33 pm (#238 of 998)

Interesting theory, vball. That might explain why his magic sometimes doesn't work quite right (ala Dudley "piggikins" Dursley). I'd equate it to someone with a class or two in electronics building a radio--the pieces are there, and it has basic functionality, but you'd need a true craftsman to make it work properly.

--Mike

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Choices - Apr 25, 2004 8:01 am (#239 of 998)

I have always thought that Hagrid meant to only give Dudley a tail, yet some seem to think he actually meant to turn him into a pig. I think that would have been too cruel and unlike Hagrid. I believe he only wanted to upset the Dursleys, not throw them into total shock. Is there a passage that states Hagrid meant to do more to Dudley than just the tail and if so, please point me to it. As it was, the Dursleys had to take Dudley to a hospital (muggle I assume) to have the tail removed. Think of the to-do it would have caused in the muggle world if he had to go around as a pig - how in the world would a muggle doctor reverse that?

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Denise P. - Apr 25, 2004 8:06 am (#240 of 998)

“Shouldn'ta lost me temper, he said ruefully, 'but it didn't work anyway. Meant ter turn him into a pig, but I suppose he was so much like a pig anyway there wasn't much left ter do."

This is the US Scholastic paperback version, page 59, Chapter 4, Keeper of the Keys.

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Choices - Apr 25, 2004 8:07 am (#241 of 998)

Thanks Denise - I guess I missed that.

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Denise P. - Apr 25, 2004 8:13 am (#242 of 998)

It does seem out of character for the Hagrid we came to know through the books. All I can figure is that he evolved as the series went by and JKR never edited that bit. I think, given the same circumstances now, Hagrid would not have done it. Perhaps just a tail but not trying to totally turn Dudders into a porker.

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Choices - Apr 25, 2004 8:54 am (#243 of 998)

LOL I think Hagrid thought Dudley was going a good enough job turning himself into a "porker".....he didn't need Hagrid's help. LOL

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Catherine - Apr 25, 2004 8:59 am (#244 of 998)

You have a point, Denise, that perhaps Rowling will edit the pig scene.

I'm not so sure that it's completely inconsistent, though. Hagrid has a real temper when someone he feels loyalty toward is threatened. Rowling can't show Hagrid really injuring Dudley because Dudley is a child. But in GoF, Hagrid lifts Karkaroff up into the air and slams him into a tree because Karkaroff spit at Dumbledore. When McGonagall and Fang were injured by the Stunning Spells in OotP, Hagrid went berserk.

I don't know if Hagrid has "more" of a temper because of his giant heritage, but it's possible. He certainly does have some inner demons, judging by his drinking and his "monster fixation."

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Madame Librarian - Apr 25, 2004 9:06 am (#245 of 998)

It's possible that Hagrid was just commenting to Harry that magic can be too powerful sometimes. He may have said that with the tone that implied "before I cast the spell, I thought how neat it would be to make him a pig, but I reconsidered." In other words he in a way is cautioning Harry to think a minute before using magic.

I don't think JKR intended us to come away from that scene thinking that Hagrid was so easily provoked or irrational that he would risk performing a spell that would be sure to cause all kinds of repercussions between Muggles and the WW (as Choices said above).

Ciao. Barb

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Choices - Apr 25, 2004 9:16 am (#246 of 998)

Don't you think giving Dudley a pigs tail (or turning him into a pig) would be considered Transfiguration? If so, then Hagrid is pretty good at magic for someone who left school before completion. Turning a person into a large animal like a pig would take a great amount of skill I would think. Maybe McGonagall has given Hagrid some private lessons.

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popkin - Apr 25, 2004 9:53 am (#247 of 998) Reply
Edited by Apr 25, 2004 10:54 am

JKR says in some interview, somewhere (sorry, I'm not looking it up just now), that Hagrid will always be somewhat inept at magic because his education was cut short, but that he does occasionally manage to pull off something spectacular that will surprise him as well as us.

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I Am Used Vlad - Apr 25, 2004 12:05 pm (#248 of 998)

I don't agree with the cautioning Harry theory. Saying "but it didn't work, anyway" implies that he went through with the attempt. I think had he been successful, he would have come to his senses and changed him back. Or at least tried to.

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Madame Librarian - Apr 25, 2004 1:10 pm (#249 of 998)
Edited Apr 25, 2004 2:13 pm

nimrod, you misunderstood. I didn't mean that he tried, it failed, and then he explained his intent to Harry as if to say, "Oh, well, I thought it was the spell to make him a pig."

Rather, my "theory" (not so grand as a theory, I think, as an interpretation of some dialogue) is that Hagrid first entertained the instant reaction to change Dud into a pig, but even before he tried to cast a spell, he thought better of it, and just did a pig tail. What he said to Harry was to get across how much disdain and scorn he feels for the Dursleys, but even so, it was only a fleeting urge to do the worst.

Was I clearer? Or did I make more of a muddle now? Anyhow, it's a bit of dialogue not a huge chunk of plot or a major clue. I think we all still "get" what kind of soul Hagrid is.

Ciao. Barb

EDIT--Upon re-reading your post, nimrod, I think I just misunderstood you. You weren't re-stating my idea, but presenting your own. Oi, that's what I get for reading too fast. Well, I've certainly made myself into a pig's tail here. My point on Hagrid's basic nature still is valid though. Sorry for the confusion.

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Neville Longbottom - Apr 25, 2004 1:51 pm (#250 of 998)

   I'm not so sure that it's completely inconsistent, though. Hagrid has a real temper when someone he feels loyalty toward is threatened. Rowling can't show Hagrid really injuring Dudley because Dudley is a child. But in GoF, Hagrid lifts Karkaroff up into the air and slams him into a tree because Karkaroff spit at Dumbledore. When McGonagalland Fang were injured by the Stunning Spells in OotP, Hagrid went berserk.
 
Yes, but in this scenes, Hagrid is angry at the right persons. The ministry wizards stunned McGonagall and Karkaroff insulted the real Big D. In the scene with the pigtail it was Vernon, who insulted Dumbledore. Dudley, as nasty as he may be, didn't do anything (he didn't even eat the cake, like in the movie). That means Hagrid basically punished him for his father's sins.

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Catherine - Apr 25, 2004 3:44 pm (#251 of 998)

Yes, Neville Longbottom, I never said that Hagrid wasn't "righteous" in his anger. Just that the suggestion that he was too nice to turn a bullying child into a pig was misunderstanding his character. My point is...Hagrid has his sense of justice and right and wrong, and will act, even impetuously, accordingly.

Hagrid is an innately good and moral character, but complex enough to have "issues." He reacts emotionally when under siege, and it can be either funny or frightening to see what results.

Cheers!

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I Am Used Vlad - Apr 25, 2004 4:08 pm (#252 of 998)

No need to apologize, Barb. I completely agree with your assessment of Hagrid's nature, and I was the one nit-picking about Hargid's exact choice of works. As you said, it is just a bit of dialogue and not a major clue. But we must do something to keep busy until the next book arrives.  

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The giant squid - Apr 25, 2004 11:58 pm (#253 of 998)

Choices, turning a person into a pig would indeed be some powerful Transfiguration--but Hagrid didn't succeed at it. I liken it to Ron & Harry's first forays into Transfiguration, with the rat-tailed goblet and the stubby-legged wineglass.

Barb, much as I'd like to read it your way, it still comes across to me as "I wanted him to turn into a pig, but all I got was a tail." A bit extreme for the Hagrid we've come to know and love, but I submit that the Dursleys will make anyone lose their head a bit.

--Mike

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NYCNomad - Apr 28, 2004 5:02 am (#254 of 998)

Just reading book five for the fifth or sixth time, and in Ch. 20 Hagrid says he can't use magic to get to the giants because he's not, strictly speaking, allowed to do magic. Just going back to my argument that Hagrid should go back to school and get more fully trained. Get something lke a GED.

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Chris. - Apr 28, 2004 11:49 am (#255 of 998)
Edited Apr 28, 2004 12:50 pm

I think Hagrid's allowed to do magic, now he's a teacher. I suppose he wouldn't be that good though.

He kept away from using magic on the way to the Giants, so they wouldn't raise suspicions.

PS. Do they have desks big enough at Hogwarts to fit Hagrid's stature?

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NYCNomad - Apr 28, 2004 12:26 pm (#256 of 998)

Not to contradict you, but OotP, american trade cloth edition, page 425, bottom paragraph Hagrid says; "We had to go slow, 'cause I'm not really s'posed ter use magic an' we knew the ministry'd be lookin' fer a reason ter run us in."

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Denise P. - Apr 28, 2004 12:50 pm (#257 of 998)
Edited Apr 28, 2004 1:50 pm

JKR said he was able to do magic once he came on staff as Care of Magical Creatures instructor. Let me find the interview....

8 Jul 2000 Southwest News Interview

Q: Since Hagrid's name was cleared in Book 2, will he ever be allowed to do magic openly again ? (Jan Campbell)

A: He is allowed. He has been allowed to do magic openly ever since he became a teacher but because he was never fully trained his magic is never going to be what it should be. He is always going to be a bit inept.

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Tomoé - Apr 28, 2004 6:04 pm (#258 of 998)

So maybe Hagrid just don't know he's allow to do magic. ^_^

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Kerstin - Apr 29, 2004 1:15 am (#259 of 998)

I think, Hagrid knows, that he is allowed to use magic, but maybe DD told him not do do because, since he's not very trained, something could easily go wrong and thereby attract attention of the MoM.

Maybe that is, what Hagrid meant with "not supposed to use magic".

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Verbina - Apr 29, 2004 8:42 am (#260 of 998)

Plus the way things were in the MoM at that time, to have an inept half giant wizard going around the country side doing magic...just an excellent reason for Fudge or Umbridge to have him brought in. And we all know what Umbridge thought of half-giants, werewolves, centaurs and such.

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NYCNomad - Apr 29, 2004 10:15 am (#261 of 998)

But if he is allowed to do magic, he could have done something. I don't have the book on me now, but if he was careful with his magic he would be allowed. He said that he was not allowed to, strictly speaking. Perhaps because he never took his OWL's?

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Ladybug220 - Apr 29, 2004 3:07 pm (#262 of 998)

I think that they weren't supposed to do magic around the giants as well since they were trying to get the giants on the good side. Olympe didn't use magic until Hagrid was in trouble.

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NYCNomad - Apr 30, 2004 5:16 am (#263 of 998)

They were talking in reference of getting to the giants. Then Hagrid goes on to explain that giants like magis, just not when it's being used on them.

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Verbina - Apr 30, 2004 7:32 am (#264 of 998)

But then if you think about it. Two very large people traveling together. And one looking like Hagrid does...that would attract attention. Magic would only run even more of a risk.

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Loopy Lupin - Apr 30, 2004 9:51 am (#265 of 998)

I believe Hagrid even said that for the biggest part of the trip, they traveled without magic because it would have attracted attention.

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NYCNomad - Apr 30, 2004 10:21 am (#266 of 998)

I took that in refrence to the Ministry of Magics attention, didn't he says that once they gave whoever was following the the slip they chanced some magic at that point?

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Madame Librarian - Apr 30, 2004 8:01 pm (#267 of 998)

The "I'm not supposed to use magic" line (paraphrased here) could have been part of his instructions from DD who is the one who sent him on this mission, not the hold over from his earlier restriction. As many above have pointed out, the idea was to travel as discreetly as possible.

Ciao. Barb

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Hagsquid - Apr 30, 2004 8:29 pm (#268 of 998) Reply
Edited by Apr 30, 2004 9:30 pm

That interview was from 2000, right about the time when GoF came out. Perhaps with the MoM now denying ANY proof that LV might be back (well, not now, but when Hagrid said that) maybe they aren't allowing him to do magic anymore. I say they're denying any proof that LV might be back by the way Umbridge acts and gives Harry detention for mentioning that Quirell has LV sticking out of his head.

Also, maybe Hagrid has the same restrictions as the students as he's never graduated from Hogwarts. He can do magic, but only at the school?

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popkin - May 2, 2004 5:31 pm (#269 of 998) Reply
Edited by May 2, 2004 6:32 pm

I like that idea, Hagsquid, that Hagrid can only do magic at school. That makes the "strictly speaking" part of the quote make sense. Hagrid can do magic - just not in all the circumstances of an educated wizard.

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Loopy Lupin - May 3, 2004 7:20 am (#270 of 998)

There's also the issue of what might happen if he tried since the pieces of his broken wand are in that umbrella. Ron wound up spitting out slugs with a broken wand.

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Hagsquid - May 3, 2004 8:17 am (#271 of 998)

We don't know that. It's been speculated that perhaps built himself a wand. The forbidden forest contains all of the required ingredients to do just that...

I think people seriously underestimate that big oaf.

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Verbina - May 3, 2004 9:25 am (#272 of 998)

But then again, the spells we have seen him do are not that complicated.

I think we may be on to something though. It would make sense that since he never finished his education in the use of magic, he would have to be somewhat limited on when and where and how he can do magic now that he is allowed again. Maybe Dumbeldore made a deal that Hagrid, while employed at Hogwarts would only do magic there. Since Fudge is a bit anti giant himself, it would make sense that he would want restrictions on Hagrid, cleared or not.

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Loopy Lupin - May 3, 2004 11:18 am (#273 of 998)

Well, he may have made another wand. (I'd be interested to know what Mr. Ollivander woudl think about that.) But, I believe JKR confirmed in a chat that the broken pieces of his school wand reside in the umbrella.

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Hagsquid - May 3, 2004 11:29 am (#274 of 998)

He could have extracted the magical core, and put it in some new wood? :-)

(Yes, I realize I'm reaching now...)

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Loopy Lupin - May 3, 2004 11:34 am (#275 of 998)

Perhaps. I guess the last we heard the umbrella still worked to some degree which would mean the core was still in there.

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Catherine - May 3, 2004 11:45 am (#276 of 998)

JKR has confirmed that the umbrella contains the pieces of Hagrid's wand. Unless she has made other statements about it, I'm a little confused why people are speculating that he's somehow fashioned himself a new wand. Did I miss something in an interview or chat?

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Hagsquid - May 3, 2004 11:53 am (#277 of 998)

Just speculation. There's nothing but theory behind it.

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Choices - May 3, 2004 5:14 pm (#278 of 998)

That's just it, have we ever seen Hagrid do magic at Hogwart's? I think not. We have only seen him do magic while away from Hogwart's. If he were only allowed to do it while at Hogwart's, surely we would have seen some example of it by now. Has he done some at Hogwart's and I have just forgotten?

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Hagsquid - May 3, 2004 5:17 pm (#279 of 998)

engorgement charm on the pumpkins, though we didn't see it.

He might be the one making the first year's boats move.

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NYCNomad - May 4, 2004 5:15 am (#280 of 998)

Very true. I like the idea that he is allowed to do limited magic, but not in all the circumstances of a fully qualified wizard. As far as him making a new wand, I wouldn't put it past Hagrid, I can just see one 3 feet long of oak, extremely whippy with a core of a werewolf hair. But I get the impression that he still has the exact same one, only repaired as best he can and infused with his umbrella.

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Verbina - May 4, 2004 5:48 am (#281 of 998)

Well if the umbrella is made with wood as the center upright...the umbrella wouldn't just contain the broken pieces of his wand but it could be his wand. If made of the correct kind of wood of course.

I'm not so sure that he would (or could) be able to make his own wand from nothing. I get the feeling that it is very specialized. Seems to me that Olivanders is the only one in Diagon Alley. If it wasn't as difficult, he would have competition don't you think?

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NYCNomad - May 4, 2004 6:37 am (#282 of 998)

I fully agree that wand making cannot be an easy task, given that Ollivander recognized other wand makers in GoF. They must be few and far between. But I wouldn't put it past Hagrid to be able to repair his. Not as good as new, but better that spellotape.

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mike miller - May 4, 2004 6:48 am (#283 of 998)

One little reminder about Hagrid's wand and his general magical abilities; he's been gamekeeper at Hogwarts with Dumbledore there for the past 50+ years. JKR said in her on-line chat that Hagrid will never be as good as a fully qualified wizard due to his incomplete education. However, there has been more than enough time for Dumbledore to make sure Hagrid knows what magic that he needs to know. In fact, his way with magical creatures could be a form of magic.

I take Dumbledore's comment at the beginning of SS/PS that he would trust Hagrid with his life both figuratively and literally. Hagrid is more than capable of handling most any situation that comes his way. If you have any questions about Hagrid's ability to take care of himself, re-read the scene when Umbridge goes to "sack" him.

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Madame Librarian - May 4, 2004 7:36 am (#284 of 998)

Maybe that's why Hagrid was in Knockturn Alley, arranging to purchase a new wand under the table so to speak. Or to to have maintenance done on his trusty umbrella. Well...yeah, it's a stretch, but a fun scene to imagine.

Ciao. Barb

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NYCNomad - May 4, 2004 8:33 am (#285 of 998)

Good point, two things following that same idea. First, Hagrid seemed like he wasn't telling Harry everything he was doing in KNockturn Alley. I was indeed getting the flesh-eating slug repellant, but there seemed to be something more. Also, thinking about that as well... It seems that the flesh eating slugs are mentioned more than needed. Do you suppose that's follow through or a subtle hint?

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Loopy Lupin - May 5, 2004 4:57 am (#286 of 998)

Ooh, I like the idea of Hagrid obtaining an "under the table" wand. Along the lines of "something small in COS being big later on," I have many theories, but one of them is why Hagrid is in Knockturn Alley.

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NYCNomad - May 5, 2004 5:25 am (#287 of 998)

Since he's been cleared of all charges, why would he need an under the table wand, why not just go to Ollivanders?

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Hagsquid - May 5, 2004 10:25 am (#288 of 998)

Well, there is the part in OP when he's still shady about his right to use magic--I'll cite if asked, but I think you know what I'm talking about...

Maybe he wasn't cleared of all charges by the MoM officially, and they were cracking down on him using magic after GoF?

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Verbina - Sep 9, 2003 8:44 pm (#289 of 998)

Oh wait!!! There was a big anti- half breed movement going on. Umbridge had succeeded in making it difficult for werewolves like Lupin to get a job. It could be that the political climate was such that Hagrid doing magic, being half giant, was not supposed to happen. He was limited as to when and where and what kind of magic he was allowed to do. Perhaps not off Hogwarts grounds. So when he was away, he was unable to do magic at all. And with him traveling with Olympe, who is large so would appear to be part giant to most anyone...things might have been such that they could not simply do magic without being hauled in to the MoM. And two half giants traveling through Europe would really stand out and be fairly easy to watch.

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NYCNomad - May 5, 2004 11:06 am (#290 of 998)

But even half-breeds are allowed to have wands, so why would he need an under the table wand when he could just go to Ollivanders?

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Verbina - May 5, 2004 11:11 am (#291 of 998)

But giants are considered "dangerous". And until Fudge is told Hagrid was half giant in GoF, he had no idea. (Of course the man is a git but...) So he may have taken back his clearing of Hagrid to the point where he could have a wand.

Personally, I don't think he was getting an under the table wand. Just speculating why he was saying he wasn't supposed to use magic while looking for giants.

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Choices - May 5, 2004 4:08 pm (#292 of 998)

Fudge must be a bit thick if he couldn't just look at Hagrid and figure he wasn't an ordinary wizard. He must have gotten his size from somewhere, and who do we know in the wizard world that's rather large.....Giants maybe? Come on Fudge, even in the wizard world 2 plus 2 = four.....put it together man!

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popkin - May 6, 2004 12:40 am (#293 of 998)

Ron figured Hagrid had been the unfortunate recipient of a bad engorgement charm. Fudge must have assumed something similar.

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Padfoot - May 6, 2004 11:23 am (#294 of 998)

Or just big boned, like Madame Maxim. LOL!

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Padfoot - May 7, 2004 11:12 am (#295 of 998) Reply
Edited by May 7, 2004 12:13 pm

I wonder where Hagrid lived between school and in his hut now? We know that the teachers live inside the school somewhere. Hagrid seems the only one to have separate living quarters. Unless Filch lives in Hogsmead?

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Chris. - May 9, 2004 4:46 am (#296 of 998)

I very much doubt Filch lives in Hogsmeade as he roams around the school at night, looking for out of bed students.

Hagrid has his own living quarters as he is the Gamekeeper and the Keeper of the Keys. He's got used to his little hut and didn't want to leave it.

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S.E. Jones - May 19, 2004 2:28 am (#297 of 998)
Edited May 19, 2004 3:28 am

We had wondered before how Hagrid got to the Shack on the Rock on some thread somewhere, and while reading through PS just now I found something interesting. Harry doesn't see anything when they leave the Shack and asks Hagrid how he got there to which he responds that he flew. Here's a quote from PS, Three minutes to go. Was that the sea, slapping hard on the rock like that? And (two minutes to go) what was that funny crunching noise? Was the rock crumbling into the sea? (PS, ch3, pg45, US). Could the noises Harry heard have been the slapping of wings and the crunching of hooves of a threstral? It'd be the only creature that could get Hagrid there in a storm and then would be able to return, on it's own (being the smart creature that it is) to Hogwarts without being seen....

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Chris. - May 19, 2004 3:54 am (#298 of 998)

At first, I thought he got there by magic but after the Thestrals were revealed, that's what I thought he had flew to the shack.

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Verbina - May 19, 2004 5:22 am (#299 of 998)

He would have to one would think, since with a thestral he could tell it where he wanted to go without knowing how to get there and still reach the place. I seriously doubt he knew the exact location of Harry and how to get there.

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DJ Evans - May 19, 2004 7:03 am (#300 of 998)

I'm sorry but I still kinda like the idea of Fawkes carrying Hagrid there, more so than the Thestral. Maybe cause I just think Fawkes is so cool, I don't know. But also, I can see DD having Fawkes handle such an important job as to get Hagrid where Harry is at that moment.

Later days, Deb

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Prefect Marcus - May 19, 2004 7:59 am (#301 of 998) Reply
Edited by May 19, 2004 9:00 am

I doubt Fawkes is up to long distance flying. He can teleport and take others with him, but that is not what Hagrid says happened. He says he flew. Plus Hagrid is the master of the thestrals. He needs to make no arrangements with anybody else to take them.

No, I would say that a thestral makes more sense.

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mike miller - May 19, 2004 8:19 am (#302 of 998)

I agree, the thestrals make sense. I only hope that at least some of the thestrals have a little Clydesdale or Morgan in their bloodlines!

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DJ Evans - May 19, 2004 9:47 am (#303 of 998)

Marcus, Fawkes can carry heavy loads when flying, so Hagrid could have grabbed hold of Fawkes' tail feathers and they flew to the island. Fawkes didn't necessary have to teleport Hagrid! So I'm going to stick with Fawkes in being the one in getting Hagrid to Harry.

Later days, Deb

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Prefect Marcus - May 19, 2004 11:47 am (#304 of 998) Reply
Edited by May 19, 2004 12:48 pm

I did not say Fawkes could not carry Hagrid. I said I doubted he was built for flying long distances. There is a difference.

Thestrals are obviously built for long distances. They flew from Scotland to London and barely broke out in a sweat. Can the same be said for Fawkes?

Here's another thing to consider. Fawkes is Dumbledore's pet. Why would Dumbledore approve of Fawkes carrying Hagrid all that way when one of Hagrid's thestrals would do quite nicely? Where is the advantage in that?

Thestrals also have the advantage of superior navigational skills. "Take me to Harry Potter" would get Hagrid to the Hut on the Rock without Hagrid or Dumbledore needing to know where Harry actually is. Would the same be true of Fawkes?

Why does Hagrid have to take the time to track down and interrupt busy Professor Dumbledore to seek permission when he can easily take one of his own thestrals?

One last thing, the back of a thestral is fairly secure. Would Hagrid pass that up so he could hang on for dear life to the tail feathers of a bird for who knows how long? Given the choice, which would you choose?

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S.E. Jones - May 19, 2004 2:51 pm (#305 of 998)

Also, a threstral is invisible (to any who haven't seen death and I'm guessing to any muggle) so Hagrid would be, more or less, invisible as well, since a person looking up would see the bottom of the threstral... sort of the way an invisibility cloak works....

Also, there are those slapping and crunching sounds Harry heard just before Hagrid appeared at the front door (see my post #297)....

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DJ Evans - May 19, 2004 4:42 pm (#306 of 998)

This just might be a bit of information that JKR will never give us the background for, on in the last two books to satisfy any of our inquiring minds--what with all the other bits of background that still needs to told and discussed.

As far as the slapping & crunching sounds that Harry heard, could still be explained away by using Fawkes. Both the Threstrals and Fawkes have wings and the crunching sounds could have very well just been made by the steps Hagrid himself made as he was walking up to the hut.

And given the choice, which would I choose? I'd still have to go with Fawkes. I mean to have the chance to experience the wonderful feeling of extraordinary lightness would just be too cool for me to resist.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Everyone has the right to their own personal opinion, as we've demonstrated here quite well. And I see no sense in getting into a right/wrong discussion over it all. I'll just leave it at that, that I think Fawkes could/would still be a choice in how Hagrid got there to the Hut that night & others feel it would have been one of the Threstals.

Later days, Deb

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Robert Dierken - May 20, 2004 7:24 pm (#307 of 998)

I think that Hagrid flew to the rock with his umbrella. It works for Mary Poppins!

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Padfoot - May 21, 2004 1:34 pm (#308 of 998)

Lol. I think some Muggles might notice that. Then again, no one noticed Mary Poppins until just before she landed. Umbrella 2

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haymoni - May 21, 2004 2:39 pm (#309 of 998)

What a sight! Hagrid hanging onto that poor little pink umbrella!

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timrew - May 23, 2004 2:29 pm (#310 of 998)

Singing, "Supercalifragilisticexpialedocious!"

I've a feeling Hagrid used, "Accio" to summon the boat, myself.

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S.E. Jones - May 24, 2004 12:15 am (#311 of 998)

Summon the boat? Um, I missed something... Do you mean to get to the Shack on the Rock or from it? He took the boat the Dursleys used to leave the Rock. The question in my mind is, how did the Dursleys get off the rock after Hagrid had taken their boat? Unfortunately, this is the wrong thread for that question....

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Robert Dierken - May 24, 2004 5:54 pm (#312 of 998)

I think that the owner of the boat (who was still on shore) rowed the boat back out to the rock.

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popkin - Jun 27, 2004 3:10 pm (#313 of 998)

You know how there seems to be a certain familiarity between Hagrid and Tom Riddle? Well, I was just thinking that Tom may developed a "friendship" with Hagrid so he could get information on the finer points of raising a basilisk.

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NYCNomad - Jun 29, 2004 9:51 am (#314 of 998)

That's a very possible thought, but Hagrid seems to be very unsettled about Tom from the moment he enters the room. Perhaps not a friendship, but a common interest in deadly animals as they might trade notes occasionally.

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Dumbledore - Jun 29, 2004 1:16 pm (#315 of 998)

I don't think it was necessarily a "help me with my deadly creature" friendship, but more of a manipulative friendship on Riddle's part. I think that Riddle might have sort of "used" Hagrid as a means of information on basilisks, and Hagrid wasn't sharp enough to realize that he was being manipulated. We know from the situation in which he bought the dragon's egg that Hagrid can be fooled, and it would explain Hagrid's confusion at having someone he thought of as a friend (Riddle) confronting him in such a manner when he framed him for opening the Chamber. In any event, I don't think we'll learn alot about the Hagrid/Riddle relationship at school. All it really shows us is that Hagrid is fairly old, based on our timelines of Voldemort's age!

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vball man - Jun 29, 2004 5:52 pm (#316 of 998)

Can we really trust what we saw in the diary, though? I mean was that a verbatim memory or did Tom make it up to incriminate Hagrid as the heir of Slytherin?

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NYCNomad - Jun 30, 2004 4:06 am (#317 of 998)

I'm thinking it was a real memory, otherwise why would he have included DD asking if there was anything TR wanted to share or Hagrid saying that it wasn't. Those could have either been skipped or completly made up with different text to be even more incriminating. As it is now we can see, (in hindsight), that there was plenty of reason to suspect TR of the petrifications.

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rikadee - Jun 30, 2004 4:41 am (#318 of 998)

I don't know if you've heard about the title for book six. If not go to mugglenet.com and read about it. HP and the HBP. I was wondering who is the HBP. JKR said it wasn't Voldy or Harry, so who else is a half blood? Instantly I thought of Mudbloods, but then I remembered that Hagrid is half giant/half wizard.

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NYCNomad - Jun 30, 2004 6:22 am (#319 of 998)

Ya know, I thought of that and it would be very JKR to have something as simple as that that nobody would usually think about. I like the idea but some quick thoughts against it; Rubeus Hagrid is half giant; if it's that half of him that's princely, would his mother have been a queen? She's dead so he would be the king. if it was his father’s side I would have thought that we would have heard some family relation at some point, but there's nobody else named Hagris that we know of yet.

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haymoni - Jun 30, 2004 6:37 am (#320 of 998)

We know that she is dead now that we have read Book 5, but in Book 2, Hagrid didn't know if she was dead.

If you aren't actually crowned King, are you still a Prince?

It doesn't look like there is much of a monarchy among the Giants now, but there could have been at one time - before they were chased out of England, perhaps.

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Tomoé - Jul 5, 2004 7:48 pm (#321 of 998)

Just to back track a little, maybe Hagrid and Tom's relation came from shared holidays together. We know Hagrid lost his father in his second year and was expelled in his third year, he could have stay at Hogwarts over summer. We also know Tom stayed at Hogwarts the summer after he opened the chamber, and could have stayed over the summer before. I don't think though Hagrid was one of Tom's friend who named him Lord Voldemort already.

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popkin - Jul 6, 2004 7:11 am (#322 of 998) Reply
Edited by Jul 6, 2004 8:12 am

Tomoe, that's an interesting thought. In the summers, they would likely be the only two young people around. That would mean that if Tom wanted someone to use, Hagrid would be his only choice at times, since he wouldn't want to raise suspicions among the teachers.

I also liked the suggestion someone had (sorry, don't remember who), that Hagrid's penchant for "interestin' creatures" probably extended to Riddle. Hagrid may have recognized the danger (to some extent, anyway), but thought he could "tame" Riddle by figuring out how to calm him.

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popkin - Jul 9, 2004 12:55 pm (#323 of 998) Reply
Edited by Jul 9, 2004 2:02 pm

There's been some debate around the Forum about whether Hagrid knew that Voldemort and Tom Riddle are the same person. I'm going to post the answer here.

P80 SS US CH5 "I bet I'm in Hufflepuff," said Harry gloomily.

“Better Hufflepuff than Slytherin,” said Hagrid darkly. "There's not a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin. You-Know-Who was one."

“Vol-, sorry -- You-Know-Who was at Hogwarts?”

“Years an' years ago,” said Hagrid.

The most likely way for Hagrid to know that Voldemort attended Hogwarts would be if he knew that Tom Riddle and Voldemort are the same person.

Here's another interesting note from P76, SS, US, CH5. It's just a comment Hagrid makes when Harry and he are getting back into the carts to leave Gringotts. "Come one, back in this infernal cart, and don't talk to me on the way back, it's best if I keep my mouth shut," said Hagrid. (bold mine) On the surface, it means that Hagrid feels sick when he rides the carts, but we now know that when Hagrid is engaged in conversation he is not careful enough about what he divulges. Hindsight....

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Anna Osipova - Jul 9, 2004 12:59 pm (#324 of 998)

Well, if he knew that Riddle and Voldemort were the same, wouldn't he reply with something like "He was there when I attended"? Perhaps he had simply heard rumors that Voldemort was once a student at Hogwarts?

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popkin - Jul 9, 2004 1:06 pm (#325 of 998)

Those notes are just little snippets from Sorcerer's Stone. I don't think JKR wanted us to think about them that much, and it would have been too early for us to know that Hagrid and Voldemort attended school together. If she had stated that point blank, we might have figured out the "Tom Marvolo Riddle" equals "I am Lord Voldemort" puzzle too easily.

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Anna Osipova - Jul 9, 2004 1:08 pm (#326 of 998)

That's true, but if I were in Hagrid's extremely large shoes, I would have replied differently had I known the truth.

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popkin - Jul 9, 2004 1:11 pm (#327 of 998)

Hagrid was evasive about many things in SS. When he mentioned to Harry that he had been expelled, Harry asked why, and Hagrid replied that it was getting late - time for bed.

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Anna Osipova - Jul 9, 2004 1:15 pm (#328 of 998)

I think that was simply because he was either ashamed of it, or didn't like talking about it. But revealing to Harry that he knew Riddle before he became LV wouldn't really affect anything, would it? Besides our knowledge, of course :~D

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popkin - Jul 9, 2004 1:18 pm (#329 of 998)

It was really in answer to a debate in another thread, but since it is all about Hagrid, I posted here.

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Anna Osipova - Jul 9, 2004 1:31 pm (#330 of 998)
Edited Jul 9, 2004 2:32 pm

Yes, the Chamber of Secret Clues or something like that, right?

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schoff - Jul 9, 2004 1:54 pm (#331 of 998)

Not fair popkin! You shouldn't find evidence that counters other's long held beliefs!

I still don't think it registered to Hagrid, especially at the time that Riddle=Voldemort. He probably just knew Voldemort went to Hogwarts.

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popkin - Jul 9, 2004 8:53 pm (#332 of 998) Reply
Edited by Jul 9, 2004 9:55 pm

I've thought for some time that Hagrid knows all about the basilisk, and I recently mentioned it to my husband. He said, "What makes you think so? That can't be, because he would have told Dumbledore all about it." Hmmm. What does make me think so? I don't remember.

But, I am listening to COS right now while I read the Forum posts, and Aragog was just explaining to Harry that the Basilisk was born in the Castle. If Aragog knows all about the Basilisk, wouldn't he and Hagrid discuss it? And where did Aragog get his information? I suppose the fleeing spiders might have told him, but maybe he found out from Hagrid. I can see a lonely half-giant boy confiding all his secrets to his pet acromantula in their secret club house (monsters only) in the Dark Forest.

But, why wouldn't Hagrid tell Dumbledore all about the Basilisk when the chamber is opened again? And, if he knew all about it when he was expelled, wouldn't he have told Dumbledore everything then? Could it be that he doesn't remember? Was he acting under the imperious curse when he encountered the creature, or maybe Riddle used a memory charm on him after getting a little help with his pet Basilisk? Or.....does Hagrid sympathise with the creature? Is Hagrid afraid that if Dumbledore knows about the Basilisk he will kill it? (post roosters throughout the school?) But then in COS, when Harry becomes endangered, Hagrid bursts into Dumbledore's office and volunteers to testify on Harry's behalf in front of the Ministry of Magic....is that the point at which he's willing to betray the creature? What about when Hermione is petrified? Is it that Hagrid knows she will be cured, so he doesn't want to say anything then either? Just a bunch of thoughts swirling in my head.

To make a long post short....I think Hagrid knows a LOT more than he's telling (and he's in the company of a whole lot of other characters - Dumbledore, Petunia, Snape, Rita, Olivander, Winky, etc....)

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schoff - Jul 9, 2004 9:42 pm (#333 of 998)

“I never even told Hagrid the name of that dread creature, though he asked me, many times. (CS 278 15 US)”

If Hagrid knew what the monster was, Aragog didn't tell him. Hagrid would have needed to figure it out on his own, and perhaps he didn't have enough information at the time. All he would have had would have been "spiders flee" but not about the roosters. The circumstances behind Myrtle's death were too murky to figure it was a stare that killed her. How would he have looked it up? And would he have made the connection 50 years later?

Granted, Hagrid is a wiz with creatures, especially monsters, but I'm thinking he still had too little info to deduce it was a Basilisk.

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popkin - Jul 10, 2004 5:57 am (#334 of 998) Reply
Edited by Jul 10, 2004 6:57 am

schoff - Jul 9, 2004 2:54 pm (#331 of 333) Not fair popkin! You shouldn't find evidence that counters other's long held beliefs!

Ditto, schoff! Darn movie contamination.

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viapalfuriana - Jul 13, 2004 4:17 am (#335 of 998)

Can Hagrid apparate and disapparate?

At the end of chapter 5 in SS, Harry wanted to see Hagrid until the train is too far away to see him. But he blinked and Hagrid wasn't there anymore.

That makes me think Hagrid disapparated. But there are a couple of things that make me doubt:

1. He was expelled at his 3rd year, and students don't learn it until they are 17, so he couldn't have learnt it at school. They keep saying it is very advanced and dangerous magic. We know Hagrid is not afraid of dangerous things, but...

2. You hear a crack as if something had exploded, but nor Harry nor people in the train or the station heard it or made any sudden movement (at least JKR does not say it). However, when DD apparates and disapparates in Privet Drive at the beginning of SS, no noise is referred.

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Prefect Marcus - Jul 13, 2004 6:55 am (#336 of 998)

If he can't apparate, he can at least use a port key. Considering the large number of pockets in his coat, I think that likely.

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popkin - Jul 13, 2004 8:18 am (#337 of 998)

We don't know that Dumbledore apparated and disapparated on Privet Drive. I've always thought he came via the London Underground, using the map above his knee. It says that he suddenly appeared, as if he popped out of the ground.

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NYCNomad - Jul 13, 2004 9:19 am (#338 of 998)

I think part of it is how the WW and the Muggle World blend. Hagrid and Harry were walking almost right past the Leaky Cauldron until Hagrid turn in. Harry had the feeling that everyone’s eyes were sliding past without seeing it. Same with the Knight Bus. I would guess that Wizards don't see it until they wave for it. So there is this giant bus running amuck that no-one sees until they ask for it.

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thetheatre62442 - Jul 15, 2004 5:45 pm (#339 of 998)
Edited Jul 15, 2004 6:46 pm

I'm re-reading OotP right now, and I've only just started it and reading pretty thoroughly and I caught something that Vernon said in Chapter 2. He was talking about the dementors with Harry and then they started talking about Voldemort. Remember that part?

'Murdered my parents, yes,' Harry said dully.

'But he's gone,' said Uncle Vernon impatiently, without the slightest trace that the murder of Harry's parents might be a painful topic to anybody. "That giant bloke said so. He's gone.' (Italics are mine)

This automatically made me think of Hagrid. Am I going overboard with this? Because I thought Dumbledore left them a letter. It never said anywhere that someone talked to the Dursley's about the murder of the Potter's. So... maybe this is what Hagrid was doing with the 24 hours that he 'disappeared'. Anyone else think this with me?

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Eponine - Jul 15, 2004 5:57 pm (#340 of 998)

I think he is referring to the incident in the hut on the rock in SS/PS. In the books, that is when Hagrid tells Harry what happened to his parents.

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Julia. - Jul 15, 2004 8:09 pm (#341 of 998)

I believe you are correct thetheatre62442 and Eponine. When Harry finds out about his parents having been murdered by Voldemort, he was still on the Hutt on the Rock with the Dursley's in the room. Uncle Vernon was probably refering to that.

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thetheatre62442 - Jul 16, 2004 4:20 am (#342 of 998)

Alright guys. I guess I was just going overboard a bit. Oh well! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction

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haymoni - Jul 16, 2004 4:42 am (#343 of 998)

It could be a clue that Vernon never read the letter that Dumbledore left.

Or he could just be remembering Hagrid's comments from the Hut.

I think Vernon only remembers what he wants to.

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popkin - Jul 16, 2004 9:37 am (#344 of 998)

Some muggles will go to any length to ignore the magic that is staring them in the face.

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Paulus Maximus - Jul 30, 2004 9:13 am (#345 of 998)
Edited Jul 30, 2004 10:15 am

To change the subject abruptly, I was wondering... just how much can we trust Hagrid's word? At least twice there have been times when Hagrid said some things that were highly suspect.

First, that the Avada Kedavra that killed Lily and James also destroyed their house. That seems... unlikely... to me. A curse that can kill without blemishing the body, and does no worse than chip inanimate objects, could hardly destroy a house. Granted, there might be other killing curses that COULD destroy a house, and not everybody would know exactly what killed the Potters...

Second, that there wasn't a single wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin. Granted, the only exception that Hagrid knew of was Sirius, and he had good cause not to tell Harry about him...

It makes me wonder... was Hagrid telling the truth when he said that James was Head Boy? It seems like he was... I mean, why lie about something like that? Still, Hagrid's word seems increasingly unreliable.

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haymoni - Jul 30, 2004 11:29 am (#346 of 998)

It wasn't the AK curse that wrecked the house - it was the REBOUND of the curse. Must have been pretty powerful.

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Paulus Maximus - Jul 30, 2004 11:34 am (#347 of 998)

I'm still of the opinion that it was a completely different spell that destroyed the house. I mean, how much could the spell change when it backfired?

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haymoni - Jul 30, 2004 11:42 am (#348 of 998)

Next question for the JKR Poll???

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The giant squid - Jul 30, 2004 2:43 pm (#349 of 998)

Remember in OotP when the AK was blocked by one of the fountain statues? It was blown apart. (don't have the book handy, so I can't quote page) I think the house was destroyed by the backlash of the failed curse on Harry.

--Mike

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Paulus Maximus - Jul 30, 2004 5:09 pm (#350 of 998)
Edited Jul 30, 2004 6:09 pm

The first AK that Voldemort used on Harry in the Ministry of Magic was blocked by the headless statue and "glanced off".

Now, there might have been an enchantment on the statue to block the AK, but Crouch Jr insisted that no such enchantment existed.

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The One - Jul 31, 2004 5:07 am (#351 of 998)

  I'm still of the opinion that it was a completely different spell that destroyed the house. I mean, how much could the spell change when it backfired?

Remember Lochart’s Obliviate spell that backfired and cause the cave to collapse. Failed spell may be devasting. We know to little about how spells works to discard Hagrid’s word in this case.

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Sticky Glue - Jul 31, 2004 4:39 pm (#352 of 998)

I wonder if the house was destroyed, In PS pg16 Hagrid says "No, sir - house was almost destroyed but I got him out all right before the Muggles started swarmin' around."

In the other books they talk about the house being destroyed, but I wonder if this first statement is true, there may be something of the house left and Harry may discover alot about his family and history if he goes there?

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Good Evans - Aug 4, 2004 12:36 pm (#353 of 998)

Just to change subject - I am listening to PS at the moment. Sorry if this has come up - I looked through Outline and some messages but couldnt see anything. Just how did Hagrid get the key to Harrys (Liliy and James' ) vault in order to withdraw money? Did the Potters think they were about to die? Pretty pessimistic if they did. But Hagrid does not explain himself. He also does loads of magic in the first book (fire / boat / apparating when harry is on train )- how does he get away with it?

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Padfoot - Aug 4, 2004 1:45 pm (#354 of 998)

Did the Potters think they were about to die? Pretty pessimistic if they did.

Well the Potters went into hiding when they thought Voldy & the DE's (as Dave Barry would say, great name for a band) were after them. So not really pessimistic but practical. I think DD had the key to the vault and gave them to Hagrid.

I think Hagrid gets away with doing magic because he is not as closely watched as Harry is. Perhaps someone is distracting the Misuse of Magic personnel while he finds Harry.

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NYCNomad - Aug 5, 2004 3:51 am (#355 of 998)

Padfoot, you're a Dave Barry fan too? Cool stuff. Sorry, now back on topic

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Duncan - Aug 5, 2004 1:26 pm (#356 of 998)

I think Hagrid can do magic because he is around a lot of wizards and the ministry wouldn't notice, but Harry is the only wizard in Little Whinging and anything magic in that area is created by him .

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Padfoot - Aug 5, 2004 1:51 pm (#357 of 998)

Yes NYCNomad, I am.

Duncan, Hagrid does magic when he first finds Harry in the middle of nowhere (PS/SS), in front of muggles (Dursleys) and away from the wizarding world. I would think the Ministry would notice, unless they were being distracted. I suspect DD was distracting those officials when he asked Hagrid to go find Harry. I do not think we will find out from the books what happened then. But maybe someone will ask her about Hagrid using magic in one of those chats (or perhaps her website).

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Detail Seeker - Aug 15, 2004 2:21 am (#358 of 998)
Edited Aug 15, 2004 3:24 am

Returning to the "Avada Kedavra" question: Interestingly, the re´bounding spell inverted its normal effect. Normally it takes the life (for possible mechanisms see Detail Seeker "Mechanisms of Magic (Condensed)" 12/3/03 7:56am in the archieved section) without harming the body, leaving a soulless body. Rebounded, it spares the life, but destroys the body, leaving a bodyless soul. I can imagine, that this transformation of effects alone might be combined with a large energy release, as to destroy the house. Also, we do not know, how much Voldemort "overdosed" the spell in regard to the amount, killing Harry would have normally taken.

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schoff - Aug 23, 2004 12:01 am (#359 of 998)

Rebounded, it spares the life, but destroys the body, leaving a bodyless soul.

It's quite possible that this is not how it works. Voldemort may have done something during his quest for immortality that spared him and him alone from this unique event.

I would think the Ministry would notice, unless they were being distracted. I suspect DD was distracting those officials when he asked Hagrid to go find Harry.

I'm still thumpin' the drums that the MoM only watches to see if Harry does magic. Hagrid also found the Dursleys on the Rock, not at home. The MoM may not have known where Harry was at the moment, even if Dumbledore did.

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Fawkes - Aug 24, 2004 9:21 am (#360 of 998)

Actually, Hagrid said he had permission to do magic while retrieving Harry. This leads me to believe that Dumbledore used his influence at the Ministry for Hagrid.

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Hermy-own - Aug 24, 2004 9:32 am (#361 of 998)
Edited Aug 24, 2004 10:32 am

Seems that way Fawkes. Here's what Hagrid says:

I'm - er - not supposed ter do magic strictly speakin'. I was allowed ter do a bit ter follow yeh an' get yer letters to yeh an' stuff...
- PS, Chapter 4 - 'The Keeper of the Keys' *emphasis mine*

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constant vigilance - Aug 25, 2004 6:53 am (#362 of 998)
Edited Aug 25, 2004 7:54 am

I have a question, forgive me if I'm repeating, I read most of this thread but not all.

What do the Malfoys have against Hagrid? I've noticed that in every book, Draco and Lucius have been trying to get him fired or sent to Azkaban. In SS, Draco is sneaking around and finds out about Norbert. He could of gotten Hagrid in serious trouble if HRH hadn't intervened In CoS,they remove Hagrid because of the Chamber being opened--maybe that wasn't in the initial plan but Lucius sure wasn't upset about it. In PoA, Draco gets himself attacked by Buckbeak and wants Hagrid fired in addition to Buckbeak's execution. Then in GoF after the news report that Hagrid is half-giant, Draco reports to Rita that he is scared of Hagrid. Again putting Hagrid's position on the line. Finally, in Ootp, Draco is all too anxious to tell Umbridge what a stupid, scary oaf Hagrid is.

Draco just seems so adament about tormenting and removing Hagrid in this book. Why? He doesn't do this to any of the other professors. This may belong on the Draco thread...but I put it here because I'm wondering if Hagrid KNOWS something which is why Draco and his father don't want him around.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 25, 2004 7:23 am (#363 of 998)

What do the Malfoys have against Hagrid?

I think basically is the fact he's a half-breed, and also totally loyal to Dumbledore.

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popkin - Aug 25, 2004 7:30 am (#364 of 998)

The Malfoy's disdain for Hagrid is more understandable in later books - when, as a Hogwarts teacher, he's putting students in danger with his “interestin' creatures,” then later when it's revealed that he's half giant. However, in the first books, Hagrid is just the game keeper. Why mess with the game keeper? What threat is he?

Maybe it is simply that Hagrid is Dumbledore's ally. Lucius Malfoy does not agree with Dumbledore's policies and uses many tactics to remove Dumbledore from the office of Headmaster. I think that Lucius knows that Hagrid would defend Dumbledore to the death if need be, so he wants to remove Dumbledore's support.

Also, Hagrid has something of a working relationship with many magical creatures. This would go against the Malfoys grain.

I have often wondered if Hagrid is Dumbledore's secret keeper. Dumbledore goes somewhere when he leaves Hogwarts in OotP, then Hagrid goes to join him when Umbridge tries to oust him during the Astrology OWL. How did Hagrid know where to find Dumbledore? He must know Dumbledore's hiding place. Is he the secret keeper for it? Dumbledore says that he would trust Hagrid with his life. Maybe this is how.

Back to the question of Hagrid knowing something that Lucius also knows - I think Lucius knows from the outset that Hagrid took the rap for Tom Riddle when Moaning Myrtle died. I think he also knows that Hagrid knows that Tom Riddle is Lord Voldemort. Maybe he's uncomfortable with that.

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Hermy-own - Aug 25, 2004 10:33 am (#365 of 998)
Edited Aug 25, 2004 11:34 am

I have often wondered if Hagrid is Dumbledore's secret keeper

Me too, popkin. And yes, where did Hagrid go that night?

Probably not related but in PS/SS JKR calls Hagrid the 'keeper of the keys for Hogwarts'. Why not say something less cryptic e.g. 'porter'? Makes me wonder whether keys are the only thing Hagrid keeps for Hogwarts/Dumbledore...

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schoff - Aug 25, 2004 11:07 am (#366 of 998)

popkin: Also, Hagrid has something of a working relationship with many magical creatures. This would go against the Malfoys grain.

Off-topic I know, but if this is true, then why on earth did Draco sign up for Care of Magical Creatures? Hagrid or not, the class does involve magical creatures.

hermy-own: Probably not related but in PS/SS JKR calls Hagrid the 'keeper of the keys for Hogwarts'. Makes me wonder whether keys are the only thing Hagrid keeps for Hogwarts/Dumbledore...

We talked about this awhile ago, and I thought maybe it was more important in a literary sense (Post 47). I never got back to it though.

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constant vigilance - Aug 25, 2004 12:54 pm (#367 of 998)

Popkin said: Also, Hagrid has something of a working relationship with many magical creatures. This would go against the Malfoys grain.

Forgive me if I'm missing something totally obvious, but I am not sure I understand what is meant by this. I know the Malfoys are uppity snobs, but DE's have working relationships with magical creatures too. Think of the goblins at Gringotts, as well as the giants (MacNair was trying to build an alliance with them at the same time as Hagrid) and also dementors (though I'm not sure those fall under the category of magical creatures. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

And Schoff, I agree that Draco really could have elected not to be in the Care of Magical Creatures class. Maybe he signed up in the hopes of taking Hagrid down?? After all, Lucius is aware of what's going on at Hogwarts, and might have known Hagrid was to be the new teacher before other students found out.

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popkin - Aug 25, 2004 1:47 pm (#368 of 998) Reply
Edited by Aug 25, 2004 2:49 pm

Let me restate - Hagrid respects other magical creatures in a way that goes against the Malfoys' grain.

The Malfoys want to treat nonwizards as inferiors. They are not above having a house elf, but they are certainly above treating it with any respect. Draco does poorly in Care of Magical Creatures because he has not learned that some creatures cannot be mistreated and be expected to follow orders. That's why he is wounded by Buckbeak. I expect Lucius Malfoy would be able to handle some hippogriffs, but his respect would be superficial. He probably would prefer Hogwarts have a COMC teacher who would teach students about how COMMAND proper respect from, rather than how to SHOW proper respect to other creatures.

Why did Draco take the class? Considering his attitude toward Hagrid and toward nonwizard creatures, he probably thought it would be easy - the same reason some kids take shop or art.

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Prefect Marcus - Aug 25, 2004 2:05 pm (#369 of 998)

I think the Malfoys do not have it 'in' for Hagrid except as a matter of class. Hagrid is decidedly lower class. The Malfoys, on the other hand, are members of the WW aristocracy. Therefore Hagrid is beneath them.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 25, 2004 2:35 pm (#370 of 998)
Edited Aug 25, 2004 3:36 pm

Take 20 points popkin! Very well put! (better than I did, lol)

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Leila 2X4B - Aug 25, 2004 6:16 pm (#371 of 998)

Referring to earlier posts, I would shudder if Hagrid was anybody's secret keeper. Yikes! The term "loose lips sink ships" comes to mind. He gets a little drinky-poo in him and there goes Fluffy.

Leila

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popkin - Aug 26, 2004 7:37 am (#372 of 998)

Yet, he never revealed he was half-giant to anyone before Madame Maxime. I think Hagrid has kept many secrets. I'm sure he's still got some tucked away which he'll reveal to us in books six and seven - maybe in exchange for a crumplehorned snorkack.

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constant vigilance - Aug 26, 2004 3:55 pm (#373 of 998)

The term "loose lips sink ships" comes to mind.

This was true in Harry's first year at Hogwarts, but hasn't really happened again since. Hagrid's biggest character flaw, I think, is really not generally a character flaw: he chooses to believe in the good of people until they prove him wrong. Yes, it's a bit naive, but would you rather have him paranoid and surly?

As Popkin pointed out, him being half-giant was not public knowledge until he told Madame Maxime, and if Rita Skeeter hadn't been spying that information wouldn't have leaked. And it took 50 years for anybody to find out about Aragog.

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Magical Llama - Aug 28, 2004 8:41 pm (#374 of 998)
Edited Aug 28, 2004 9:41 pm

I apologize if this is a repetitive question, but here it is:

What happened to Hagrid's father!? Don't be shy, take a guess.

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schoff - Aug 28, 2004 8:49 pm (#375 of 998)

He died Hagrid's second year (GF 24 US455) so he wasn't killed during Voldemort's first reign of terror (VWI), and I doubt Tom Riddle went out of his way to kill him. He may have died in whatever was going on with Grindelwald, or it could have been a simple unexpected death, like a heart attack.

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popkin - Aug 28, 2004 8:53 pm (#376 of 998)

I've always assumed he died of a heart attack or something similar. It might become important to know the cause of death at some point, though.

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popkin - Aug 28, 2004 9:07 pm (#377 of 998)

No. I'm pretty sure he died while Hagrid was at school.

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Good Evans - Aug 29, 2004 11:09 am (#378 of 998)

I was wondering this very Q the other day when listening to GOF. Hagrid does say his Dad died in his second year and does not say how. I assume it was an unrelated incident as LV had not emerged yet - Tom Riddle as we know was still at school. I did wonder if it would come up again later if it is significant but I cant see any other clues as to why it would be as yet.

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constant vigilance - Aug 29, 2004 4:15 pm (#379 of 998)

I was kind of under the impression that we were told Hagrid's father died simply to establish a sense of connection between Hagrid and Harry. Both had to spend their school-age years without parents, and as orphans they are maybe more able to relate to each other. But maybe there is more to it than that.

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popkin - Aug 29, 2004 8:13 pm (#380 of 998)

It's also something they both have in common with Riddle.

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constant vigilance - Aug 30, 2004 7:28 pm (#381 of 998)

Yes of course, Popkin. I neglected to mention that but it's definitely true.

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T Brightwater - Aug 31, 2004 12:13 pm (#382 of 998)

constant vigilance asked a while back what the Malfoys had against Hagrid. I think originally it was just contempt for someone in a "servant" position, but it turned into a more personal malice because of the detention Draco, Harry, Hermione, and Neville got, when they had to go into the Forest with Hagrid to try to find the wounded unicorn.

Draco balks at going into the Forest mostly because he's terrified, but also because he considers the task to be "servant stuff." Hagrid tells him "that's how it is at Hogwarts...Yeh'll do summat useful or yeh'll get out. If yeh think yer father'd rather you were expelled, then get back off ter the castle an'pack. Go on!" (SS/PS chapter 15) Later, after Draco's little joke on Neville, Hagrid calls him "this idiot," and shortly thereafter, Draco sees the cloaked figure drinking the unicorn's blood and takes off in a complete panic.

Between being spoken to in a very disrespectful manner, being told to do "summat useful," which the spoiled brat has probably never done in his life, and being scared out of his wits (in front of Harry, no less) that's probably enough to make Draco Hagrid's enemy for life.

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vball man - Sep 2, 2004 8:06 pm (#383 of 998)
Edited Sep 2, 2004 9:06 pm

Going through CoS again, I noticed something interesting:

“And you ... you didn't come from the Chamber of Secrets?” said Harry, who could feel cold sweat on his forehead.

“I!” said Aragog, clicking angrily. "I was not born in the castle. I come from a distant land. A traveler gave me to Hagrid when I was an egg. Hagrid was only a boy, but he cared for me.."

Hagrid getting a giant spider egg from a traveler reminds me of the dragon egg he got from a feller down at the pub in PS. Perhaps that egg was used to loosen Hagrid's lips when he was a child.

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Phoenix song - Sep 2, 2004 8:20 pm (#384 of 998)

Excellent point vball man! I haven't really ever considered that passage before!

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schoff - Sep 2, 2004 10:42 pm (#385 of 998)

Actually, I think the CoS scene might have been the origin of the set-up for giving Hagrid Norbert.

Tom Riddle would know that Hagrid had a penchant for monsters from their school days. When Voldemort/Quirrell needed info on the trials years later, Voldie knew he could get Hagrid to talk by offering him a monster. Does this make sense?

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popkin - Sep 3, 2004 4:20 am (#386 of 998)

I always ignore it as a mistake, but the odd thing about that line to me is that Aragog "was not born in the castle". Why not? Hagrid lived in the castle. He kept Aragog in the castle. Why wouldn't Aragog be born in the castle?

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 3, 2004 4:37 am (#387 of 998)
Edited Sep 3, 2004 5:37 am

Maybe he went from egg to spider in Hagrid's pocket? It does seem Aragog contradicted himself. "I!" said Aragog, clicking angrily. "I was not born in the castle. I come from a distant land. A traveler gave me to Hagrid when I was an egg. Hagrid was only a boy, but he cared for me, hidden in a cupboard in the castle, feeding me on scraps from the table.” But remembering he is an OLD spider, he may not be as cognitive as he was when he was younger. Being blind, old, and as JKR describes him, fretful, it fits with advanced age. But Aragog also states he remembers the time and circumstances well. It is an interesting question.

Pam

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The One - Sep 3, 2004 6:15 am (#388 of 998)

“I was not born in the castle. I come from a distant land. A traveler gave me to Hagrid when I was an egg. Hagrid was only a boy, but he cared for me.”

But when is a creature like this "born"? Is it when the egg is laid or when it hatches? I took "born" to mean the former, but I am neither English-speaking nor a spider, so I would not know.

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popkin - Sep 3, 2004 7:00 am (#389 of 998)

Well, that makes sense. If Aragog was "born" when his egg was laid, then it all works out.

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rambkowalczyk - Sep 3, 2004 8:47 am (#390 of 998)

I think all Aragog meant was that he wasn't the monster planted by Salazar Slytherin to "cure" the wizarding world of mudbloods.


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popkin - Sep 3, 2004 7:00 am (#389 of 998)

Well, that makes sense. If Aragog was "born" when his egg was laid, then it all works out.

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rambkowalczyk - Sep 3, 2004 8:47 am (#390 of 998)

I think all Aragog meant was that he wasn't the monster planted by Salazar Slytherin to "cure" the wizarding world of mudbloods.

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Agramante - Sep 9, 2004 4:52 pm (#391 of 998)

Good point about the egg! I think you may have it, One.

A long time ago--among the first few posts--someone said Hagrid'd not care to be reinstated to graduate from Hogwarts now, even that his name could be cleared (I wonder if testimony from an acromantula is admissible as evidence?), since he's very happy doing what he does. Still...I have to think he'd love to have a fully functioning wand, even if he wouldn't be much use in classes.

And I'd love to see him riding Sirius' bike...any word on where that thing got to?

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The giant squid - Sep 10, 2004 2:37 am (#392 of 998)

  And I'd love to see him riding Sirius' bike...any word on where that thing got to?



Agramante, we used to have a thread on that very question. I think the theory that got the best response was that it was hanging out in the Forbidden Forest with the Weasley's car.

--Mike

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Phoenix song - Sep 10, 2004 7:19 am (#393 of 998)

I've always wondered if it could perhaps be in Sirius' vault. Those vaults would certainly be big enough for a bike.

Barbie

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haymoni - Sep 10, 2004 7:52 am (#394 of 998)

I liked the theory that Hagrid used it to get to the Hut on the Rock.

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Phoenix song - Sep 10, 2004 8:11 am (#395 of 998)

That's a good idea, I hadn't heard of that one. Where did Hagrid put it after that? I assume that he could have "magicked" it back to it's storage area. However, he really couldn't have done that back to Hogwarts grounds, could he? If a person can't apparate or disapparate then I suppose that they couldn't send an object by magic, either. (It'd be a security nightmare! LOL)

Barbie

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mike miller - Sep 10, 2004 10:56 am (#396 of 998)

I think Hagrid got to the Hut on the Rock on the back of an extremely large thestral (probably part Clydesdale).

As far as Sirius' motorcycle, it would not surprise me to find out that Hagrid ripped it apart with his bare hands when he thought Sirius was guilty of betraying Lily and James. Then again, maybe it's stashed away at Hogwarts with the Mirror of Erised.

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Chris. - Sep 10, 2004 11:07 am (#397 of 998)

I would love to see Harry being presented with the motorbike on his birthday in HbP. Perhaps he will resent the present at first, but it will help him deal with Sirius' death in the end.

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haymoni - Sep 10, 2004 11:53 am (#398 of 998)

I know JKR was asked about the motorbike and she said that "some of you sleuths" may know where it is.

I think it's still on the Rock.

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DJ Evans - Sep 10, 2004 12:16 pm (#399 of 998)

I'm going to stick with my original thought of way back when and that is Arthur got a hold of it and turned into their "flying" car!

Later, Deb

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Phoenix song - Sep 10, 2004 1:00 pm (#400 of 998)

DJ: I'm not familiar with the theory that Arthur turned Sirius' motorcycle into the flying car. I always thought that he had bought an ordinary car and then enchanted it. What was said about this transformation?

Barbie

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DJ Evans - Sep 10, 2004 4:21 pm (#401 of 998)

Phoenix song -- I thought I'd go and do a search and bring up my original post about it all. Sad to say the thread "Flying Motorbike" has been munched/deleted. But basically when Jo had been asked about Sirius' flying motorbike and what happen to it, she came back that some of the HP sleuth's should be able to figure it out.

What came to my mind was the Weasley's car. Arthur loves to take things apart to see how they work. That and being in the Misuse of Muggle Artifacts Dept. at MoM -- well it just seemed to all fit to me. As far as I know those are the only "2" items that we know of or have seen that fly, excluding brooms that is. I had no canon to back up anything, it was just my thoughts on what had happen to Sirius' Flying Motorbike. I don't think very many people agreed with me (if any), but I still like the theory.

Later, Deb

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Phoenix song - Sep 10, 2004 7:23 pm (#402 of 998)

Deb: I agree that it's a good theory. I'm certain that the two are related in some way even if it's just a correlation between muggle artifacts that are made to fly. I think that I'll go back and read the scene in CoS where the car is introduced. Perhaps there is a clue as to where the car originated. Also, maybe I could find out something by carefully reading the scene where Hagrid is in the pub telling about how Sirius lent him the motorcycle. JKR can leave us the smallest of clues at times, and I'm sorry to say that I've missed quite a few of them. Maybe we'll find a little bit of "canon" evidence to prove the theory behind the location of the flying motorcycle.

Thanks for trying to locate the back posts for me. I regret not finding the forum earlier, as I know that I've missed out on a lot of good ideas.

Barbie

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Agramante - Sep 10, 2004 9:08 pm (#403 of 998)

I'd totally go with the idea that Harry will inherit the bike, but for one question...aside from whether Harry's the black leather, broadshouldered with chains jacket kind of guy, which he could be, and which Sirius undoubtedly was...but...even more importantly. Which would win in a race? The bike, or the Firebolt?

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Phoenix song - Sep 10, 2004 9:33 pm (#404 of 998)

I suppose that the winner of the race between the Firebolt and the bike would depend upon the rider. Of course, some motorcycle enthusiasts that I know would say that it would depend upon the make of the bike. I suppose that I'd bet on the bike.

I was thinking back to the earlier posts about where the bike could be. This may seem to be a little bit crazy, but has anybody else thought about all of the things that Hagrid's moleskin coat holds? It can hold tea kettles, tea bags, mugs, cauldrons, sausages, birthday cakes, dog biscuits, owls, parchment, ink, money, and newspapers just to name those that directly come to mind. I have often thought that the inside of his coat must be similar to the cars that Mr. Weasley and the ministry use. Outside they appear to be normal, but inside they magically hold a tremendous amount of things. I can also theorize that the coat somehow shrinks the contents so that the weight and bulk is not a burden to the wearer. I believe this because he told Harry to take a "kip" under his coat in that hut on the sea. Surely Harry would have noticed the bulk and weight of all of these aforementioned items if they had not been magically reduced. It also seems as if Hagrid always has whatever he needs within these pockets. He may pull out several items first, but he always finds what he's looking for, as if whatever he needs will be there.

What I've wondered is, does anybody think that it could be possible that Hagrid keeps Sirius' motorcycle in his coat? Maybe he is not using it often since it's now an illegal item, however it will be there in times of need. If this is where he stores the motorcycle, then this would explain where he placed the motorcycle after he had found Harry in SS. Since it is believed that he flew the motorcycle to the hut, (and we know that he didn't fly it back from the hut,at least around Harry), then he would have to have stored the motorcycle somewhere. He couldn't have banished it to Hogwart's because I think that would follow along the lines of apparating and disapparating.

Like I said, this could be a wild story, but read the chapter "Keeper of the Keys" in SS and tell me if you think that the coat could be magical and could contain the motorcycle. (I'm reminded of Mary Poppin's magical carpet bag that contained lamps, mirrors, clothes, books, etc.)

I also think that, like the invisibility cloak, that Harry will be inheriting the motorcycle. I don't know the age for driving in Britain, but in the U.S. it's 16...his age as of this next book.

Thanks!
Barbie

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Agramante - Sep 10, 2004 9:52 pm (#405 of 998)

Seems possible, though it's a bit of magic Hagrid'd not have been able to come up with himself. If Dumbledore or someone else'd decided to help him, sure...the bike just seems too cool a thing to have disappeared without a trace, or at least without an explanation. But...the wide carseats don't counteract the passengers' weight, I'd guess...but small difference, it'd just be a slightly more complicated spell to hold the cycle's weight as well as its size.

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Phoenix song - Sep 11, 2004 7:45 am (#406 of 998)

Hagrid is capable of the magic that he considers to be needed. Remember the gigantic pumpkins, and the mixing of the skrewts? It seems that he is adept at the magic that he needs to perform the things that he thinks are necessary. So, I don't see this magic as being beyond Hagrid. I think that if it was something that he wanted to do, to help him carry around whatever he needed, then I think that he'd be capable of performing it. Who wouldn't want a coat (or a purse) that could carry everything that you'd ever need. It was just a thought, though.

However, we don't know that the "magicked" cars aren't also altered to reduce the passengers' and cargo's weight. I think that it would be hard for a car to hold as much weight as was placed in the Ford Anglia on the way to the station that day if it wasn't able to counteract the weight of it's contents.

Barbie

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Agramante - Sep 11, 2004 8:35 pm (#407 of 998)

Yeah...you're getting no serious argument from me. If anything, it seems like it'd be too good to be true, that he's been holding onto it for so long...but maybe, as a gift for when Harry's out of school! I don't want to venture over 'ship-'ship lines, but I do like the image of Harry in his leather and chains, on the bike, Hermione's hair streaming out behind...

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Phoenix song - Sep 11, 2004 8:53 pm (#408 of 998)
Edited Sep 11, 2004 9:54 pm

Gee, Agramante, as a woman with very curly and "bushy" hair (like Hermione) I would definitely think that she'd think twice about getting on a motorcycle. The hair would be impossible to repair! With Hermione out of the running, we have to think of another girl who may be more appropriate in your scenario. Who might have hair that would be more compatible with riding on the back of the motorcycle with Harry? Hmmm...let me think...it'd be better if it was straight rather than curly. It'd be better if it was on the sleek side and not bushy. I can even think that it might be better if it were a nice shade of "Weasley red". But who could fit all of these qualities? OH! I've got it! It's Ginny! (LOL, had to give you a little jab at the "shipping" comment!)

Just joking!,
Barbie

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Robert Dierken - Sep 12, 2004 6:00 pm (#409 of 998)

I think that Arthur bought the Ford Anglia from Sean Harris!

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Steve Newton - Sep 14, 2004 6:57 am (#410 of 998)

Is it possible that Hagrid's father was killed in the unpleasantness involving Grindelwald? I can't figure out the time to see if this would work.

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popkin - Sep 14, 2004 7:09 am (#411 of 998)

Mugglenet had a small article today that says JKR told a couple of people after the Edinburg reading that Hagrid is not the Half-Blood Prince.

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Steve Newton - Sep 16, 2004 7:02 am (#412 of 998)

I've seen a lot of speculation, I have taken part, about what happened to Hagrid's father. I got to thinking, who was Hagrid's father related to. Is he a relative of Ron or Harry or somebody else that we know?

Probably a bad question to ask since I can't think of anything in the books that bears on the issue.

Probably not important.

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vball man - Sep 16, 2004 7:29 am (#413 of 998)

Well, he died during WWII. Maybe the war.

Also, Grindelwald was defeated about 4 years after Hagrid's father's death. Perhaps it had to do with Grindelwald.

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El Cronista de Salem - Sep 18, 2004 2:35 am (#414 of 998)

Hello! It is my first post in the Forum! I hope enjoy with all you!

About Rubeus Hagrid: In the Lexicon don't appear this detail (I warned Steve about it and he will include soon) but Hagrid has this strange accent because he is of the Forest of Dean.

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Dr Filibuster - Sep 18, 2004 2:55 am (#415 of 998)

Hola El Crostina, it's an honour to have the director of the Spanish lexicon on here.

I know that the BBC tv programme "Ground Force" is shown in other countries, BBC America for one. If you've heard the female presenter Charlie Dimmock, then you may be interested to know that she is from the Forest of Dean. She shares Hagrid's accent.

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El Cronista de Salem - Sep 18, 2004 3:09 am (#416 of 998)

For an error of translation, in Spain and LatinoAmerica Hagrid speak perfectly. Our translations are very bad... And in the fifth book, when Pansy says that she doesn't understand Hagrid, it hasn't sense in the Spanish edition, because he speaks perfectly. You are very lucky of have the books in your own language!

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haymoni - Sep 18, 2004 2:56 pm (#417 of 998)

Help - I'm not getting the impact of the "Forest of Dean" reference.

A specific region? If so, where?

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Elanor - Sep 18, 2004 11:38 pm (#418 of 998)
Edited Sep 19, 2004 12:38 am

Very interesting remark about the "Forest of Dean" accent! I've always wondered where his accent was coming from.

On other threads, we were talking about the similarities between HP and "The three Musketeers" characters, connecting Lupin to Athos and Snape to Rochefort. I was wondering if we could connect Hagrid to Porthos. Both are physically impressive, stronger than "normal" people, trustful and ready to anything for their friends, launching themselves in the battle if needed without thinking.

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schoff - Sep 19, 2004 12:28 am (#419 of 998)

Royal Forest Of Dean

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Julie Aronson - Sep 19, 2004 8:16 am (#420 of 998)

Wow! What a groovy looking place!

I can definitely see that as Hagrid's original home.

Julie

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Kelly Kapaoski - Sep 22, 2004 7:38 pm (#421 of 998)

Steve Irwin definitely wouldn't have anything on Rubeus Hagrid; lets see how long Steve lasts with one of Hagrids Blast Ended Skrewts.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 27, 2004 6:00 pm (#422 of 998)

I was reading the books again on Saturday and Sunday. And was struck by how Hagrid reminded me of Saint Gerasimus who like Saint Francis 700 years later were famous for their love of animal whether they were dangerous or not.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Both of these sites relate how Gerasimus befriended a lion and how they were lifelong companions and when Gerasimus died in 475 A.D. the lion whom Gerasimus named was so overcome with grief he too died and was buried with Gerasimus.

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Catherine - Sep 29, 2004 12:00 pm (#423 of 998)
Edited Sep 29, 2004 1:00 pm

Both of these sites relate how Gerasimus befriended a lion and how they were lifelong companions and when Gerasimus died in 475 A.D. the lion whom Gerasimus named was so overcome with grief he too died and was buried with Gerasimus. --Nathan Zimmerman

Nathan, are you suggesting that Hagrid would also inspire such loyalty and love from a seemingly terrifying beast?

Norbert comes to mind, as does Fluffy. Even Aragog is loyal to Hagrid, even if that loyalty does not extend to Hagrid's friends.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 29, 2004 5:06 pm (#424 of 998)

Catherine, yes I am suggesting Hagrid could inspire such loyalty. Hagrid inspired loyalty within Aragog and Buckbeak so I would argue that it is possible to extend the argument to include Norbert and Fluffy.

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legolas - Sep 30, 2004 1:18 pm (#425 of 998)

Sorry to go off on a slightly different direction but I was wondering what role Hagrid performed in the original Order and what he is doing now in the reformed Order except contacting the Giants? Does anyone have any theories. He admits that he is not that good at magic and he is rather visible due to the fact that he is half giant. So what is role?

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Kelly Kapaoski - Sep 30, 2004 3:26 pm (#426 of 998)

His knowledge of Large and interesting creatures is always helpful; plus the guy can take a multiple stunners and still come at you is always a plus against the DE.

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Catherine - Sep 30, 2004 5:25 pm (#427 of 998)

He admits that he is not that good at magic and he is rather visible due to the fact that he is half giant. So what is role? –Legolas

He has loyalty in spades, Hagrid does. He has superhuman strength; he can call and control beasts; he adores Dumbledore and Harry.

nuff said, as far as I am concerned. In any other story, HE would be the darn hero.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 30, 2004 7:21 pm (#428 of 998) Reply


Hagrid also knows alot of the recent history of Hogwarts, not to mention his title as Keeper of the Keys". I think Hargrid lets clues slip at just the right places, thus advancing the plot, without reveling all

As laid out in the first book, first chapter, Dumbledore states he would trust Hagrid with his life. Aside from death being the next great adventure, Dumbledore is not ready to go, he still has not "completed his mission" as it were. But Dumbledore is also the most trusting soul we have met so far and for him to put that much trust in Hagrid speaks volumes to me.

Of course, this is just my opinion...seems time to toddle off for another butterbeer.

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legolas - Sep 30, 2004 11:58 pm (#429 of 998)

I wasnt ever questioning his loyalty :-). Loyalty is incredibly important. I guess I would rather surround myself with people that would stick with me through thick and thin.

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Agramante - Oct 2, 2004 7:13 pm (#430 of 998)

Yeah, it's impossible to question Hagrid's loyalty--even though it seemed questionable during CoS, and Harry thought he was the Heir--but the remark earlier likening him to Porthos is interesting too. It seems possible, since Porthos was the least effective musketeer, the comic relief who dominated the action early but was always first to go down in a fight after that, and was a virtual nonfactor by the end of the book. Seems harsh to say of Hagrid, but he too tends to create situations--Aragog, Norbert, the skrewts, Grawp--which get away from him. He seems to need bailing out just often enough to keep his character comic, and not really to be feared.

But on another thought discussed some time ago...Hagrid and Sirius' bike. It's been opined that he has the bike stuffed in a pocket, and he'll eventually give it to Harry, say, when the kid graduates. I really like that idea. And I have a bit of possible confirmation...in book #1 is the following (paraphrased) exchange, when Hagrid first comes to Harry on his birthday, in the shack on the island rock--Harry: "How did you get down here, then?" Hagrid:"Flew."

Flew? Not floo...and if Hagrid had his wand broken, I wonder if he'd be allowed a broom...no, folks, I suspect Hagrid still has that bike of Sirius', and he's not afraid to use it in times of need. Besides, you know...any good vehicle shouldn't be kept unused for too long at a time...too much inactivity is a bad thing.

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Prefect Marcus - Oct 2, 2004 7:49 pm (#431 of 998)

I suspect Hagrid still has that bike of Sirius', and he's not afraid to use it in times of need.

Or he could of flew there on a Thestral.

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Agramante - Oct 3, 2004 5:19 am (#432 of 998)

Right. That, a broom, or the bike were the only three things I could think of. There could be many other ways we don't know about--heck, Dumbledore could've lent him Fawkes--but it just seemed to me to leave the door appealingly open.

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legolas - Oct 3, 2004 6:26 am (#433 of 998)

I guess my question originated from the fact that he was not very visable in OOP. Then I realised he was away visiting the Giants. D'hoo.

Goes off to put ears in oven door
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Kelly Kapaoski - Oct 3, 2004 11:22 am (#434 of 998)

The only thing Dangerous about Hagrid is that he is interested in "interesting" creatures, but that can come in very handy for the order of the Phoenix when they need someone to acquire some Interesting creatures for guard duty. Who is going to Argue with Fluffy, Aragog or A blast ended Skrewt.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Oct 3, 2004 2:44 pm (#435 of 998)

“Hagrid's door had burst open and by the light flooding out of the cabin they saw him quite clearly a massive figure roaring and brandishing his fists, surrounded by six people, all of whom, judging by the tiny threads of red light they were casting in his direction, seemed to be attempting to Stun him.”

Hagrid is dangerous in his own right. I sure wouldn't want to make him mad.

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Robert Dierken - Oct 3, 2004 4:51 pm (#436 of 998)

Right. That, a broom, or the bike were the only three things I could think of. There could be many other ways we don't know about--heck, Dumbledore could've lent him Fawkes--but it just seemed to me to leave the door appealingly open. – Agramante

Hagrid could perhaps have flown to the rock using his umbrella. If it works for Mary Poppins...

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Eponine - Oct 3, 2004 5:12 pm (#437 of 998)

Now that's an interesting mental picture!

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rebecca dorgelo - Oct 3, 2004 7:01 pm (#438 of 998)

I was just thinking of Hagrid's 'usefulness' in a coming war OoP vs DE - and the bike would come in handy - imagine Hagrid zooming down on you - those DEs should turn and run!

but I suppose he could do the same on a thestral, although without the crucial revving, roaring noise...

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timrew - Oct 4, 2004 3:13 pm (#439 of 998)
Edited Oct 4, 2004 4:13 pm

Robert Dierken: Hagrid could perhaps have flown to the rock using his umbrella. If it works for Mary Poppins...

Eponine: Now that's an interesting mental picture!

LOL! Just as long as he wasn't singing, "Just A Spoonful Of Sugar Helps The Medicine Go Down" to a Blast-Ended Skrewt at the same time.

Hmmmm......now that raises an even more interesting mental picture: Skrewt perched on Hagrid's index-finger while he croons to it......

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Grimber - Oct 4, 2004 5:22 pm (#440 of 998)

How much time passes between the Potters deaths and Ministry hunts down Black? We know Black starts looking for Wormtail pretty much right after he seen what happed to the Potter house.

Hagrid had time to meet Sires to barrow the bike afterword. May have been enough time before Black was suspected by the ministry where Hagrid would have returned it ( metioned after dropping Harry off at Privet drive he had to return the bike).

On other hand if Hagrid didn't get return it, would seem likely he would have taken his anger for Black out on the bike.

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Kelly Kapaoski - Oct 4, 2004 9:13 pm (#441 of 998)

it was 12 years between the potters death and the hunt for black as of october 1993.

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Grimber - Oct 5, 2004 12:37 am (#442 of 998)

not the hunt for Black after escaping Azkeban , after he supposedly tracked down and killed Wormtail and all the muggles that landed him in Azkeban. It would be that time difference as to whether or not Hagrid could have return Blacks motercycle

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Ms Hagrid - Oct 6, 2004 12:10 pm (#443 of 998)

I continue to be fascinated by the question of what role Hagrid played/plays in the Order of the Phoenix - other than displaying utter loyalty to Dumbledore and acting as envoy to the Giants. It occurs to me that Hagrid is somewhat unique among the magical humans (or half-humans) we've met so far in that he does not seem to have an innate or automatic belief in the superiority of human wizards. Only Dumbledore seems to equal or exceed Hagrid in this area. Even the Weasleys (who I think are wonderful) seem to have some prejudices about this - based on some of the things Ron believes before he learns differently!

Hagrid also seems unusally clear-sighted in understanding the attitudes and motivations of the non-human inhabitants of the Wizarding World. He may not agree with them, but so far I think he has rarely gotten them wrong. (Please correct me if you disagree!) Dumbledore makes this statement at the end of OOP: "The fountain we destroyed tonight told a lie. We wizards have mistreated and abused our fellows for too long, and we are now reaping our reward." I would tend to add mis-understood to this list of faults as well. I believe that JKR has indicated in interviews that this is a significant theme in the series. (Although I can't back this up with specific quotes) Does Hagrid's "value-add" then to Dumbledore and the Order lie in his ability to clearly understand and respect the non-human members of the wizarding world? Is it the first step to correcting a significant problem in the wizarding world - i.e. convincing even the "good guys" of the wizarding world that a problem exists even if they don't yet see it? This is my first post to the forum, so I'll be very interested in seeing what you experts think! Bye for now!

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rambkowalczyk - Oct 7, 2004 11:41 am (#444 of 998)

Hagrid is certainly less prejudiced against non-human beings, but it is more because he is a humble person than anything else. In contrast he could be more prejudiced against the slytherin house (by saying they produced more dark wizards). Are you prejudiced if what you say is true?

He does seem to have definite opinions about things. Hermione could not convince him to join SPEW. He felt Firenze was wrong about civilizing giants. He certainly thought the centaurs were a little overbearing regarding their use of the forest.

As far as his use in the order, he's willing to do anything for Dumbledore. I also think he may know something about Voldemort as he did go to school with Tom Riddle.

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Ms Hagrid - Oct 7, 2004 1:25 pm (#445 of 998)

Do you think he might know something about Tom Riddle/Voldemort that Dumbledore doesn't? I never thought of that... What could it be?

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popkin - Oct 7, 2004 4:08 pm (#446 of 998)

He has some first- hand experience with Voldemort. I suspect Voldemort used Hagrid by posing as a friend. Hagrid probably had trouble making friends, and he and Voldemort were probably sometimes the only ones around when other students had returned to their homes for the holidays. That would mean that Hagrid would have been the only one there for Vodemort to use for things. Given the opportunity, I think LV would use Hagrid for as much dirty work as possible. So, Hagrid probably has quite a bit of insight into how the man operates (sp).

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Ginevra-Weasley - Oct 10, 2004 11:45 pm (#447 of 998)
Edited Oct 11, 2004 12:47 am

At MUGGLNET's website they have listed under the section "future books/book 6/facts/General Facts Not Disclosed in the Books "that "For Hagrid, keeping dangerous creatures is all about overcoming something that could kill him". What is that thing that could kill Hagrid and how breeding monstrous creatures could help him in ovrcoming it?

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Agramante - Oct 11, 2004 7:43 am (#448 of 998)

Very shrewd idea, Popkin. In CoS Hagrid certainly seems to be on amiable terms with Tom. It seems that Hagrid can certainly be fooled by someone clever, but once he's seen through the ruse, he'll never trust that person again. What would he remember of Riddle, except that his every promise turns false...valuable enough to remember, perhaps, if Voldemort should find himself in a tight spot and needing to bargain.

Funny too how childlike Hagrid is. He's Voldemort's age--over 50 (and I wouldn't guess how long giants, or even half-giants, live)--but his best pals are human teenagers. He looks up to Dumbledore almost like a puppy to its master, certainly not with the sometimes antagonistic appraisal Harry has of the headmaster. Being so childlike is one of Hagrid's strongest appeals, and what makes his loyalty so plain to see. And like a child, once he's seen an inconsistency in someone, his trust is lost...

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schoff - Oct 15, 2004 11:14 am (#449 of 998)

Grimber: How much time passes between the Potters deaths and Ministry hunts down Black?

We know Black starts looking for Wormtail pretty much right after he seen what happed to the Potter house.

This was the closest I could come to finding out, but it's nowhere near perfect.

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rebecca dorgelo - Oct 16, 2004 2:06 am (#450 of 998)

Ginerva-Weasly, If there is something specific that can kill Hagrid then he might be breeding something to guard himself against it - I wouldn't want to come up against a skrewt. Likewise he could be looking for an antidote or something - in the way that basilisks can't be near roosters (maybe it works for other creatures) - or he could be after the prefect fighting machine - or he could just like “interestin' creatures.”

I'd like to know, if the information is not in the books, how do we know that it's valid? I admit that I didn't visit the link, but it's mostly interviews and the books that are canon, right?

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Tomoé - Oct 16, 2004 9:26 am (#451 of 998)

Interview are less canon but still canon.

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popkin - Oct 19, 2004 7:43 am (#452 of 998)

Thanks for the timeline, Schoff. It's very helpful. I thought (for what reason, I don't remember) that the duel between Sirius and Wormtail happened at night - so I would have put it later in the day than you did, but I have no proof that it should be later.

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Grimber - Oct 21, 2004 2:23 am (#453 of 998)

There is an important element missing from that timeline. Hagrid after bringing Harry to Privet drive, on his leaving says he’s got to return the bike to Sirius. ( which takes place around midnight) Means if the timeline is right Hagrid hasn't heard about Sirius’ Fight with wormtail and his capture by the ministry ( which according to the time line happed that very afternoon).

So Hagrid had been out of that loop but wouldn’t DD have known Sirius had been caught that day? DD didn't appear at Privet drive untill around midnight, so he would have had time to have heard about Sirius. McGonigal might have as well, she was sitting near the Dursly house, could have heard about the deaths of the muggles on the muggle TV news and we know Sirius name was know to muggles as the murderer of all those people.

My guess ( so far) is that the day of the Sirius/wormtail event was a day later than in the timeline.

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schoff - Oct 24, 2004 1:55 pm (#454 of 998)
Edited Oct 24, 2004 3:09 pm

My guess (so far) is that the day of the Sirius/wormtail event was a day later than in the timeline.

The reason I put it earlier in the day is because of how many Muggles were killed, and how many Muggle "eyewitnesses" there were (CS 10 US 208). I can't see a dozen deaths if the duel happened after midnight. Hagrid does insinuate that Sirius gave him the bike because he wouldn't be needing it anymore, and it is confirmed that Sirius was caught the day after the Potters were killed (both CS 10 US207).

Vernon did miss most of the news (P/SS 1 US6)--meaning McGonagall did too. Maybe the event was mentioned. McGonagall would have been completely out of the loop, since she spent all day at Privet Drive and didn't get to hear the news. Hagrid would have most likely been completely isolated as well, caring for Harry. DD isn't exactly known for disseminating extraneous info, and JKR couldn't have DD mention it yet or it would have been too much info too early for the PoA plot.

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Ydnam96 - Nov 16, 2004 9:00 pm (#455 of 998)

I guess I just assumed that Dumbeldore didn’t know about Sirius at that point, that he had been busy doing whatever he did to work out the protection for Harry. I think he would have said something to Hagrid about not needing to return the bike if he had known about it. I think Hagrid still has the bike or he left it somewhere he thought Sirius would find it before he found out about the Sirius/Peter incident (in which case it might still be there).

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Ydnam96 - Nov 18, 2004 8:48 am (#456 of 998)

another, unrelated thought...

I've been reading on the Beauxbatton thread about Madame Maxime (sorry spelling??) and her being half-giant. Made me wonder if Hagrid and Maxime were to have children, they would each pass on 1/2 giant and 1/2 human. So the child would be 2/4 giant and 2/4 human, so half and half as well. Do you think they would be just as big as their parents or smaller or is it possible that they could get just the right genes from their parents and be taller/bigger than their parents. Just wondering...

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Tessa's Dad - Nov 18, 2004 9:10 am (#457 of 998)

That’s a great thought! I don’t know enough about genetics to hazard a guess. I’d feel sorry their human sized child and sorry for the parents if the child was giant sized. They could have one of each size. One small human sized, one medium “Hagrid” sized, and one large giant sized.

A human sized child of giants could go a long way to heal some of the prejudice and fear of giants.

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haymoni - Nov 18, 2004 9:27 am (#458 of 998)

Hagrid would need a bigger hut!

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wwtMask - Nov 18, 2004 10:07 am (#459 of 998)

Actually, according to what we understand about genetics, and assuming the giant and human genes are co-dominant, there is a 50% chance that Mme. Maxime and Hagrid would produce a half-giant child, a 25% chance they produce a fully giant child, and a 25% chance they'll produce a fully human child.

*begin boring pedantry*
If you're interested to know how I came up with that, I used a (rather simplistic) way of predicting the presence of genetic traits in the offspring of two parents. Assuming the human and giant genes are co-dominant, we can identify the giant gene as "G" and the human gene as "H". Full humans be "HH" and full giants would be "GG", so half giants are "GH". Using the chart below, I crossed two half giants according to the gene that determines if you're human, giant, or half giant. I did this by matching up one half of the gene from one parent with one half of the gene from the other parent. The results are 1/4 Giant, 2/4 half giant, and 1/4 human. (see chart below)

Madame Maxime = GH and Hagrid = GH
each passes on one gene
Possible combinations are:  (Madame Maxime) G  x  (Hagrid) G = GG Giant
(Madame Maxime) G x (Hagrid) H = GH  Half-giant
(Madame Maxime) H x (Hagrid) G = HG  Half-giant
(Madame Mxime) H x (Hagrid) H = HH Human


  G    H
G GG GH
H HG HH


*end boring pedantry*

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Tomoé - Nov 18, 2004 2:52 pm (#460 of 998)

“Unlike Hagrid, who simply looked like an oversized human, Grawp looked strangely misshapen. What Harry had taken to be a vast mossy boulder to the left of the great earthen mound he now recognised as Grawp's head. It was much larger in proportion of the body than a human head, and was almost perfectly round and covered with tighly curling, close-growing hair the colour of bracken. The rim of a single large, fleshy ear was visible on top of the head, which seemed to sit, rather like Vernon's, directly upon the shoulders with little or no neck in between. The back, under what looked like a dirty brownish smock comprised of animal skins sewn roughly together, was very broad; and as Grawp slept, it seemed to strain a little at the rough seams of the skins. The legs were curled up under the body.

They looked up into startlingly huge face that resembled a grey full moon swimming in the gloom of the clearing. It was as though the features hadbeen hewn on to a great stone ball. The nose was stubby and shapeless, the mouth lopsided and full of misshapen yellow teeth the size of half-bricks; the eyes, small by giant standards, were a muddy greenish-brown and just now were half gummed together with sleep.” (UK OoP ch.30 p.613)

wwtMask's model would work if Giants' characteristics are all on the same gene, but it's way too complex to be so. It seems the human genes are dominant as Hagrid and Maxime look like scaled human. This means their children could be anything between Giants and humans.

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Steve Newton - Nov 18, 2004 5:42 pm (#461 of 998)

One of Hagrid's duties is Keeper of Keys. I think that something he knows or does will be key to the story. After all the time spent on his trip to the giants I wonder if we have seen this key event.

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Neville Longbottom - Dec 5, 2004 4:21 pm (#462 of 998)

Happy Birthday, Hagrid.

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Stringer - Dec 6, 2004 10:48 am (#463 of 998)

Happy Birthday Hagrid. You do see like a jolly person who would be born in December!

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T Brightwater - Dec 6, 2004 11:06 am (#464 of 998)

There is something appropriate about Hagrid's birthday being the Feast of St. Nicholas!

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Elanor - Dec 6, 2004 11:47 am (#465 of 998)

Happy Birthday Hagrid!

You're right,T Brightwater, to be born on St Nicholas' feast is really appropriate! St Nicholas is the patron saint of the children because it is said that, once, he saved 3 children. Those children had had their throat cut of and had been put in a salting-tub by an innkeeper when he rose them from the dead.

Would it be a clue that Hagrid will sometime save our trio from a great danger in the Hog's head? Who knows...

But the most interesting part is certainly that St Nicholas is the one who protects the children and it fits very well with Hagrid. BTW, St Nicholas is often represented with a anchor or a small boat because he is also the patron saint of the boatmen. I thought it was funny...

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T Brightwater - Dec 6, 2004 2:31 pm (#466 of 998)

There's also a story about St. Nicholas that he appeared in a dream to the Emperor Constantine to save an accused man from being unjustly condemned. Sounds like something Jo would come up with, doesn't it?

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librarian314 - Dec 7, 2004 3:26 pm (#467 of 998)

Hey all!

I just recently finished re-reading the series and something jumped out at me about Hagrid.

After he's carted off to Azkaban in CoS, there are a few places throughout the rest of the series (I seem to remember once in GoF and another in OotP) where he is mentioned as being innocent. This has got me worried in regards to the centaurs' prophecy from PS/SS (The "Mars is bright,...the innocent are the first to die" one.)

What if it references Hagrid? Sirius' innocence was mentioned and look what happened to him.

Just a thought!

**michelle the librarian**

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Phoenix song - Dec 7, 2004 6:51 pm (#468 of 998)

Michelle, I think that you have an interesting point about Hagrid. He certainly does seem to be in danger of the "toaster". But I think that he'll survive, I'm more concerned about Dumbledore.

I've always taken the centaur's statement about the innocent being the first to die to refer to Cedric, and not to Hagrid. Hagrid has been found innocent of the crimes that he was accused of, so he is innocent. But he wasn't the first to die. Also, the centaurs were speaking about how it was terrible to kill a unicorn, and we later find out that Cedric's wand core contains a unicorn hair. (The big "yikes" here is that Ron's wand also contains a unicorn hair core.)

Barbie

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Mara Jade - Dec 7, 2004 9:22 pm (#469 of 998)

Perhaps the innocent one's he is referring to are the unicorns?

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librarian314 - Dec 8, 2004 5:27 am (#470 of 998)

Hey all!

I've taken the centaurs' prophecy about the innocent to be a bit broader in that it doesn't reference just one individual but perhaps many, as they tend to deal with trends and how the world is going, rather than single individuals.

I think that that particular prophecy definitely included Cedric but also Sirius as well, as he was innocent of the crimes for which he was sent to Azkaban. Since Hagrid has also spent time there for deeds he didn't do and JKR used the term "innocent" in reference to it, it definitely made me go, "Hmmmm..."

Y'all take care!

**michelle the librarian**

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wolfgrl - Dec 14, 2004 12:44 pm (#471 of 998)

As to Cedric and Ron's wands having unicorn hair in them, I don't think you would have to kill the unicorn to get the hair. I don't think we can say that about the dragon heartstring (in Hermione's wand),  but Phoenix feather and Unicorn hair I think can be freely given for wands. IMOP

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Paulus Maximus - Dec 14, 2004 2:05 pm (#472 of 998)

Wasn't Ollivander nearly gored when he tried to pluck the hair off of the unicorn for the wand that would become Cedric's?

Unicorn hair isn't always freely given, it seems...

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T Brightwater - Dec 14, 2004 2:38 pm (#473 of 998)

Wasn't Ollivander nearly gored when he tried to pluck the hair off of the unicorn for the wand that would become Cedric's?

Unicorn hair isn't always freely given, it seems...

At least not to men. The first thing Grubbly-Plank tells her class about unicorns is that they prefer a woman's touch.

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Paulus Maximus - Dec 14, 2004 4:58 pm (#474 of 998)

The foals don't seem to mind men so much...

Of course, the foals probably don't have enough hair to put into a wand...

Which brings us back to Hagrid.

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July 19 - Dec 22, 2004 11:40 am (#475 of 998)

Here is my big question pertaining to Hagrid:

How did he fly to the rock on the sea in PS/SS to fetch Harry?

Here is the excerpt (Italics are mine... if they show up): " 'How did you get here?' Harry asked, looking around for another boat. 'Flew,' said Hagrid. 'FLEW?'"

One other thing that just came to mind: he could have been saying Floo, and Harry just assumes he means that he flew... but I don’t think there was a fireplace outside that hut. Much less a fireplace that was connected to the floo network...

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Prefect Marcus - Dec 22, 2004 12:10 pm (#476 of 998)

How he got there puzzled me until OoP. He took a thestral. If you think him too big for a thestral, then Fawkes could of done it.

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July 19 - Dec 22, 2004 3:36 pm (#477 of 998)

That makes sense!

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Robert Dierken - Dec 22, 2004 6:32 pm (#478 of 998)

I still think that Hagrid flew to the rock by using the umbrella, ala Mary Poppins!

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dizzy lizzy - Dec 22, 2004 9:10 pm (#479 of 998)

I'll accept the explanation of a thestral. Unless he's got the miniature version of Sirius' motorbike hidden about somewhere in that vast coat of his?? It was stormy that night at the hut so who would hear the motorbike???

Besides I'm more interested in how the Dursley's got off the island since Hagrid and Harry borrowed the boat and there's no mention of Hagrid sending it back.

Lizzy

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mooncalf - Dec 23, 2004 12:08 am (#480 of 998)

You may be interested, but I don't think that Harry or Hagrid were too concerned.  

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dizzy lizzy - Dec 23, 2004 12:27 am (#481 of 998)

Obviously not...

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vball man - Dec 23, 2004 10:26 pm (#482 of 998)

If this is old news - sorry. I was just reading about WANDS on JKRowling.com.
JKR says, "Hagrid, for instance, has an oak wand...in Britain, the oak is "King of the Forest" and symbolises strength, protection, and fecundity; what other wand would 'choose' Hagrid?"
Fecundity ? ? Does this suggest that Mdme Maxime and Hagrid will be married soon ? ! ? !

(BTW the primary definition of Fecundity is: the ability to produce offspring, especially in large numbers.)

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T Brightwater - Dec 24, 2004 6:41 am (#483 of 998)

Could be. Hagrid also likes to breed creatures and grow vegetables, so it could be a reference to that, too.

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Tessa's Dad - Dec 24, 2004 7:13 am (#484 of 998)

“large numbers.”

Does this mean a lot of children or some really LARGE children?

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Saralinda Again - Dec 24, 2004 10:48 am (#485 of 998)

Or both ...

:: picturing a litter of mini-Hagrids and -Olympes ::

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Hagsquid - Jan 9, 2005 11:40 am (#486 of 998) Reply
Edited by Jan 9, 2005 11:50 am

Here's a blast from the past...

Well, if he knew that Riddle and Voldemort were the same, wouldn't he reply with something like "He was there when I attended"? Perhaps he had simply heard rumors that Voldemort was once a student at Hogwarts?

popkin, "Rubeus Hagrid" #323, 9 Jul 2004 12:55 pm

I don't see Hagrid saying this, at least not in COS -- and there's no point in mentioning it after COS. If Harry knew that Hagrid went to school with Tom Riddle, then Ron or Hermoine would have been able to deduce that Hagrid was half giant. (Age based deduction.)

I like the idea of Hagrid being the half blood prince. The only problem that I can see with it is that if Hagrid's mother was a queen of giants, she sure picked some lowly mates. (One Human, and one sub-par giant.)

Of course, it could just be that Hagrid's brother Grawp has taken over as King of the giants. (We know nothing about how the giant's political system works, and it could just be that the most powerful is king, and this somehow makes all relatives royalty as well.)

In any event, I now fear for Hagrid's life.

The only other book in which the title referenced a character was Prizoner of Azkaban... and we all know what happened to the prizoner.

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popkin - Jan 9, 2005 9:23 pm (#487 of 998) Reply
Edited by Jan 9, 2005 9:24 pm

Hagsquid, I'm going to put that comment into context so that it makes sense:

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popkin - Jul 9, 2004 12:55 pm (#323 of 486) There's been some debate around the Forum about whether Hagrid knew that Voldemort and Tom Riddle are the same person. I'm going to post the answer here.

P80 SS US CH5 "I bet I'm in Hufflepuff," said Harry gloomily.

“Better Hufflepuff than Slytherin, said Hagrid darkly. "There's not a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin. You-Know-Who was one."

“Vol-, sorry -- You-Know-Who was at Hogwarts?”

“Years an' years ago,” said Hagrid.

The most likely way for Hagrid to know that Voldemort attended Hogwarts would be if he knew that Tom Riddle and Voldemort are the same person.

Here's another interesting note from P76, SS, US, CH5. It's just a comment Hagrid makes when Harry and he are getting back into the carts to leave Gringotts. "Come on, back in this infernal cart, and don't talk to me on the way back, it's best if I keep my mouth shut," said Hagrid. (bold mine) On the surface, it means that Hagrid feels sick when he rides the carts, but we now know that when Hagrid is engaged in conversation he is not careful enough about what he divulges. Hindsight....
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Anna Osipova - Jul 9, 2004 12:59 pm (#324 of 486) Well, if he knew that Riddle and Voldemort were the same, wouldn't he reply with something like "He was there when I attended"? Perhaps he had simply heard rumors that Voldemort was once a student at Hogwarts?

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T Brightwater - Jan 10, 2005 7:41 am (#488 of 998)

I think if Hagrid knew that Tom Riddle and Voldemort were the same person, he would have said something. He might not have mentioned it to Harry right away (since Harry had just found out about Voldemort killing his parents) but I would have expected him to let something slip at some point, like "If I'd known what he was going to turn out to be, I'd have torn him apart," or, "Yeah, he's the one that got me expelled," or "Who'd a' thought Tom Riddle would end up like that?"

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vball man - Jan 10, 2005 8:57 am (#489 of 998)

Well, Hagrid did say something. He said (with confidence) that “you-know-who was in Slytherin.”

It makes sense that Hagrid wouldn't want to talk to a new student about his expulsion. Hagrid is still embarrassed about that.

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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 10, 2005 11:36 am (#490 of 998)

I agree vball man. Hagrid has always been embarrassed about his expulsion and as far as I can remember doesn't know that Harry found out the background of the expulsion. I believe that Harry told H/R about his trip back into the book and the reason for Hagrid's being kicked out of school but I can't remember a discussion with Hagrid about it. Could be wrong though.

Mikie

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T Brightwater - Jan 10, 2005 8:24 pm (#491 of 998)

You're right, vball man and Mikie; now that I think about it, I doubt he would discuss any details of his expulsion. I still don't think he realizes that Voldemort was Tom Riddle.

1) If he knew, why wouldn't he just call him Tom Riddle since he's so afraid to say "Voldemort"?

2) The "years and years ago" part of his answer to Harry (as opposed to "a few years ahead of me" or something more definite) sounds like he doesn't know exactly when Voldemort was at Hogwarts, but that he had heard he was there, and had also heard or perhaps assumed he was a Slytherin, since all of his followers (as far as he knew) were from that house.

3) I know Hagrid isn't the smartest bloke in the book, but if he realized that the person who ratted him out all those years ago had become Lord Voldemort, might he not have figured out that he was likely the one who had been opening the Chamber of Secrets?

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popkin - Jan 10, 2005 11:07 pm (#492 of 998)

response to 1) There is probably something we have yet to be told about Hagrid's school days with Tom Riddle. He is probably not at all inclined to remember those days, and saying Tom Riddle's name could be even more painful than saying "Voldemort".

response to 2) I think Hagrid would also likely say that he, himself, was at Hogwarts "years and years ago".

response to 3) I don't think it dawned on Hagrid that Voldemort was opening the chamber because he knew Voldemort in his mist state was incapable of doing so.

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Catherine - Jan 11, 2005 6:48 am (#493 of 998)

I agree with your first two points, Popkins, with a minor difference on the third.

I'm sure that Dumbledore and Hagrid "knew" that Voldemort was responsible for the attacks on the students. I don't think the question is so much "Who?" but "How?" One thing that may not support this is Hagrid rushing into Dumbledore's office to proclaim Harry's innocence, though I think Hagrid panicked because Hagrid himself had been falsely accused himself as a student, and because Hagrid isn't the most intellectual, logical wizard in the stories.

As Popkin points out, Vaportmort would not be able to open the Chamber. Dumbledore's sources had told him that Voldemort was hiding in Albania, so that adds to the question of "How?"

I believe that Dumbledore was checking on Harry to make sure that Voldemort wasn't possessing him as Voldemort possessed Quirrell the year before in SS.

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josenegro - Feb 24, 2005 6:59 am (#494 of 998)

I am very worried everyone...and I HOPE that what I say is NOT true: Hagrid wears a mole skin coat. Does everyone know what a 'mole' is? It is a person who is a part of an organization, is trusted, yet is secretly sabotaging from within. Too, Hagrid wears a Balaclava. That is a Russian hat made famous in the Battle of the Light Brigade that slaughtered the English. I have a feeling, Hagrid took the fall for Tom way back when to protect 'his master'. Too, Hagrid never believed that Voldemort ever was truly gone and would return one day. And Dumbledore says 'I trust Hagrid with my life'-that's just asking to come back and be used...I fear, I hope not. I think Hagrid makes a show of loyalty, to be trusted, to be overlooked, and he is a tad too clumsy and awkward about letting secrets slip...including to Voldemort in PS...All of this makes him a little too unassuming. Please, Please let Hagrid be faithful to the Order, Dumbledore, and Harry! Has anyone else seen these things?

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popkin - Feb 24, 2005 7:26 am (#495 of 998)

Interesting observations about the mole coat and the balaclava. I trust Hagrid, but it would make a riveting twist if we were all wrong about him.

If Hagrid were working for someone evil, I don't think would be Voldemort. There have been too many opportunities for him to do away with Harry - unless Hagrid knows the prophecy and knows he would be unable to do Harry in.... Hmmm...... I kind of like the idea that Grindelwald is still out there and is masterminding some long range plan that uses Voldemort to do his dirty work and to get Dumbledore out of the way - Hagrid could be working for him.

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Choices - Feb 24, 2005 9:01 am (#496 of 998)

Catherine - "Vaportmort would not be able to open the Chamber. Dumbledore's sources had told him that Voldemort was hiding in Albania, so that adds to the question of "How?""

If Dumbledore thought it wasn't Voldemort, then that also adds to the question of "Who?", in addition to "How?".

Josenegro - Interesting thoughts about Hagrid. The first time I heard that someone had overheard the prophesy that Sybill gave to Dumbledore, it occurred to me that it could have been Hagrid. Knowing his weakness for not being able to keep a secret, he could have let slip about what he had heard....or he could have told on purpose. Perhaps he went to the pub with Dumbledore that evening and was near by when the prophesy was spoken and heard what was said. I love Hagrid and would hate to think him a traitor, but it's possible. Could that also explain how he got to Godric's Hollow so quickly - he went there with Voldemort and was there when Lily and James were killed? Mercy, I don't like thinking this at all!! Not Hagrid!!

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Detail Seeker - Feb 24, 2005 2:32 pm (#497 of 998)

Josenegro, Balaclava was a place in the first place. About the head protection, I don´t know.

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timrew - Feb 24, 2005 4:11 pm (#498 of 998)

josenegro:- Hagrid wears a moleskin coat. Does everyone know what a 'mole' is?

Working in the textile trade, I know that the fabric, 'moleskin', has nothing to do with moles. It is merely a heavy, brushed cotton that resembles a mole's skin.

There again, in the wizarding world, I suppose it would be possible to have a coat made from the skin of real moles; but it would take a heck of a lot of moles to make one coat. Thousands of the little varmints!

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dizzy lizzy - Feb 24, 2005 4:31 pm (#499 of 998)

And in Australia the word moleskins (in the plural) refers to a pair of jeans made out of moleskin fabric. The one word is enough to describe them, they are the ubiquitous rural fashion and work wear.

I tend to think Hagrid's coat is real moleskins. He is the type of person to be able to wear one and get away with it.

Lizzy

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josenegro - Feb 24, 2005 4:57 pm (#500 of 998)

Thanks for the info about the 'moleskin' and 'moleskins'- it makes me feel a little better, though her word choice still has me worried. As far as Balaclava being a place, this I knew, and thus the hat received that name because it came from there.

And Choices, I'm pretty sure Dumbledore specifically says he sent Hagrid, and far as who was thrown from the bar-do we know who it was? Does Dumbledore tell Harry who, or is it specifically stated who told Voldemort somewhere else in book 5? I can't remember. Thanks Everyone

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Mellilot Flower. - Mar 3, 2005 2:01 am (#501 of 998)

Vball man mentioned a few posts back Hagrid’s wand...

JKR says, Hagrid, for instance, has an oak wand...in Britain, the oak is "King of the Forest" and symbolises strength, protection, and fecundity; what other wand would 'choose' Hagrid?" Fecundity ? ? Does this suggest that Mdme Maxime and Hagrid will be married soon ? ! ? !

(BTW the primary definition of Fecundity is: the ability to produce offspring, especially in large numbers.)"

A brief conversation then ensued about the children - but I was surprised no one made the link between "King of the Forest" and children. The children of two half bloods might still be considered half blood, no?

Would JKR give us such a big clue all hidden in irrelevant information on her website?

We all like a good stretch don't we

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vball man - Mar 3, 2005 6:20 am (#502 of 998)

I'm not sure what the gestation period of a giant is. If the HBP is Hagrid's kid, then Harry would be doing something with an infant towards the end of the year.

Could it be that Harry leaves 4PD early to go to Hagrid's wedding, then he saves the infant HBP at the end-of-year finale?

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Mrdrama - Mar 3, 2005 7:16 am (#503 of 998)

The Child of Hagrid as the HBP? Leaving early to go to Hagrid's Wedding? Hmmmmm, Wow Mellilot and Vball, this is the first time a theory has hit me and made me think long and hard. But I like it, I really really like it!!

How do you suppose Grawp would react to having a "brother"?

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Tomoé - Mar 3, 2005 11:23 am (#504 of 998)

Well, Hagrid do breed a lot of monsters Fantastic Beasts, maybe it was what she meant ...

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Mellilot Flower. - Mar 3, 2005 2:28 pm (#505 of 998)

We haven't actually seen Olympe for over a year you know, and they did go travelling together for some time as what we could call a couple. Just because it hasn't been mentioned doesn't mean it hasn't happened, though I expect that if Hagrid knew he was a father everyone would know too... maybe Olympe was sort of embarrassed about it and tried to keep it to herself, even from Hagrid like she did with her giant anscestry...?? But again, wild speculation over here.

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popkin - Mar 3, 2005 3:46 pm (#506 of 998)

I sure like the idea of Hagrid being the "King of the Forest" and father of the Half Blood Prince better than him being a mole who rats out his friends. I've worried about that since reading the moleskin post. I remember reading elsewhere that when JKR associates spots with a character she is clueing us that the character is not to be trusted. Hagrid has a spotted handkerchief. I want to trust him, especially since Dumbledore trusts Hagrid with his life.

Well, if Hagrid is going to do some major harm to the Order, or to Harry, I don't think it will be in book six. So, if there's a wedding to attend, we'll be able to enjoy it. A wedding would also be a good device for reintroducing all the major characters - and a good opportunity for flash-back.

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T Brightwater - Mar 3, 2005 4:15 pm (#507 of 998)

I think the fecundity part of the Oak symbolism refers to the fact that creatures of all kinds flourish and multiply under Hagrid's "rule" in the Forest - including a few that other people would just as soon not have to deal with, like Aragog's family. Hagrid found a mate for Aragog and at the end of OotP he was talking about finding one for Grawp.

I could easily see Hagrid letting some crucial piece of information slip accidentally, but I have a really hard time thinking of him as a potential traitor.

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Phoenix song - Mar 3, 2005 6:00 pm (#508 of 998)

I think that Hagrid's spotted handkerchief isn't a sign that we can't trust him. I think that it's a sign that we can't trust the things that he handles...since the spots are on his handkerchief. We already know that the creatures that he "handles" can be dangerous to the trio!

The people associated with spots that we can't trust have the spots on their faces... Stan Shunpike, Moaning Myrtle, Augustus Rookwood, and Mad-Eye Moody all come to mind.

When studying colors in the books, Round Pink Spider and I isolated out all of the colors of brown. It seems as if brown is a color that is associated with protection. EX: The Sorcerer's Stone is wrapped in plain brown paper; Hermione has brown eyes and brown hair; Ginny has brown eyes; Lupin has brown hair flecked with gray; and Hagrid is associated deeply with brown...including his "horrible, hairy brown suit." I think that this shows that he is to be trusted, since he is associated with brown and brown is a protective color.

Another great example of brown being associated with protection is that Dobby's skin tone was NEVER noted until after Harry had freed him from the Malfoy's. It is then that Jo notes that he has an "ugly, brown face". Harry's act of freeing Dobby has created a magical bond of protection between the two of them.

So I think that we can trust Hagrid, overall, to protect Harry.

Barbie

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popkin - Mar 30, 2005 1:25 am (#509 of 998) Reply
Edited by Mar 30, 2005 1:26 am

In POA, why did Wormtail choose to hide at Hagrid's place? There were a lot of places he could have chosen. Why would a rat choose a place where a hungry hippogriff is hanging out? Also, Ron and Hagrid are friends, and Wormtail would know that he would be likely to come visit and perhaps find him there. At this point, he does not want to be found. Wouldn't he be more likely to choose a place he knows Ron does not go?

I'm thinking that perhaps Hagrid knows something or has something of interest to Voldemort/Riddle, and Wormtail knows at least a bit about it. Hagrid probably confides in Buckbeak and other nontalking pets he's had over the years, and maybe Wormtail was hoping to learn something he could pass on to the Dark Lord while staying in Hagrid's hut.

Or, maybe it has something to do with Hagrid being the first on the scene at the Potters on the night of their deaths. I have thought that Peter wanted something they had, and he was looking for it after they died (and that's how the house came to be a pile of rubble). Maybe Hagrid found it (or even knew where it was hidden, and went to get it during the "lost day"), and Peter is still hoping to acquire it.

Just as Harry has a connection to Voldemort/Riddle, so does Hagrid. They have many things in common, including their closeness in age, hair color, isolation (no living relatives that they knew of following the deaths of their remaining parents), and both had been abandoned by a parent (Hagrid's mother, Riddle's father). They also both attended Hogwarts at the same time, and were there over the summers together.

Did Riddle learn something about Hagrid during their summers together that he later discovered would be of use to him? Did Wormtail find out about it? Did Hagrid know? Is he keeping it hidden, or is he unaware of its existence? Is it tied into a prophecy (perhaps of Cassandra Trelawney's)?

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Tomoé - Mar 30, 2005 5:36 pm (#510 of 998)

Maybe ... maybe Peter wanted a cat/owl-free place, even if Buckbeak likes rats, he's too big to follow Peter everywhere. Meybe Buckbeak was an added defence against Crookshanks, the cat did run on the grounds by night.

I don't think he ever planned to get back to Voldemort until Sirius and Remus try to kill him. As Sirius said, the DE hold him responsive for the fiasco, and likely Voldemort too. I could be wrong, though.

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hells456 - Apr 1, 2005 1:08 am (#511 of 998)

Also Wormtail would know that he wouldn't show up on the marauders map in Hagrid's hut and he would be a lot safer there than in the forest.

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popkin - Apr 1, 2005 11:58 am (#512 of 998)

Do we know that Hagrid's hut is off the map?

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Choices - Apr 1, 2005 12:42 pm (#513 of 998)

I thought the map shows Hogwarts and the grounds.

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hells456 - Apr 2, 2005 1:45 pm (#514 of 998)

I am just guessing it doesn't from what Lupin says in PoA

“The important thing is, I was watching it [the map] carefully this evening...”

“I watched you cross the grounds and enter Hagrid's hut. Twenty minutes later, you left Hagrid, and set off back toward the castle. But you were now accompanied by somebody else.”

I thought that if he was watching the map carefully and looking at Hagrid's hut he would have seen Pettigrew before they left, not after. I could be wrong though, I often am. :-)

Hells

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Choices - Apr 2, 2005 2:19 pm (#515 of 998)

Maybe it just doesn't show inside Hagrid's hut, but the grounds around it and the castle.

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dizzy lizzy - Apr 2, 2005 3:04 pm (#516 of 998)

Perhaps I should put this somewhere else: but what if the map only shows the outlines of the buildings. It is not until you are actually inside the building, does the map show everything inside the building.

This would explain why Lupin can't see the interior of Hagrid's hut on the map and waited to see what came out of the hut.

Lizzy

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Cornelia - Apr 2, 2005 10:00 pm (#517 of 998)

When was the hut built? Before or after the map was made? Hagrid was first a co-gamekeeper, maybe his predecessor lived somewhere else and Hagrid built his hut when he became the full-time gamkeeper? (If this was after the map was made)

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Choices - Apr 3, 2005 8:59 am (#518 of 998)

From the looks of that hut, it has been there quite a while..... probably longer than 20 years, which is about how old the map is, give or take a year or two.

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rambkowalczyk - Apr 9, 2005 7:16 am (#519 of 998)

Reading the last 30 or so posts has made me wonder if Hagrid was a former Death Eater.

Consider:

Hagrid knew Tom and thought they were friends. When Tom turned in Hagrid, Hagrid had no idea that it was Tom who opened the COS and killed Myrtle. Hagrid in his innocence probably thought Tom was mistaken in his accusation and did what he thought was the right thing.

Hagrid was expelled. Dumbledore convinced Dippett to let Hagrid stay as an assistant to the Caretaker. It is even possible that Tom made a similar appeal to Dippett saying that Hagrid meant no harm when he was raising the spider. Tom was in his fifth year when Hagrid was expelled so Tom had two more years to "groom" Hagrid into being a disciple of the Dark Arts. I bet Tom didn't use his purebloods are better than everyone speech; he probably said it was a shame that giants were so misunderstood and if only something could be done about it.

Even when Tom disappeared it is possible that there may have been some communication between the two. Hagrid's role as a Death Eater would have been to recruit the giants possibly through his mother.

I think at some point Dumbledore intervened and told Hagrid to open his eyes, or to wake up and smell the coffee. Hagrid then changed sides and became Dumbledore's most loyal supporter. I'm sure Voldemort tried to have him killed but I don't think it is easy to kill giants or half giants.

This then is why Hagrid is loyal to Dumbledore: he was forgiven for something he did (being a Death Eater). It explains why he never says anything really bad about Snape. It also explains why he doesn't say anything to Harry about Voldemort. Hagrid is more ashamed of his decision to be a Death Eater (even though he was probably tricked into it somehow)

Maybe Wormtail knew that Hagrid was a former Death Eater as well and decided to take up residence thinking he would have more access to information. Also Hagrid isn't the neatest person and there are probably many crumbs and tidbits on the floor for a rat to eat.

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Steve Newton - Apr 9, 2005 7:34 am (#520 of 998)

rambkowalczyk, worth considering, but we have seen no evidence of a Dark Mark.

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T Brightwater - Apr 9, 2005 7:56 am (#521 of 998)

I don't think Tom had enough respect for Hagrid to consider him as a follower; consider how disparagingly he speaks of Hagrid to Harry in the Chamber. I think he only used him as a scapegoat.

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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 9, 2005 9:08 am (#522 of 998)

I can't see Hagrid joining up with Tom after what Tom did to him (ie. expulsion). I also believe that Hagrid is far too loyal to DD to allow himself to even consider life as a DE. No -  Hagrid is Hagrid and his loyalty lies with DD and Hogwarts. But that’s just my opinion.

Mikie

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Choices - Apr 9, 2005 10:25 am (#523 of 998)

I agree Steve, T and Mickey - no way Hagrid was a DE.

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popkin - Apr 9, 2005 2:52 pm (#524 of 998)

We've seen Hagrid with his sleeves rolled up (shelling peas, I think), and he has no dark mark. Hagrid as Death Eater could have made an interesting plot line, but I think Hagrid's expulsion marked the end of his and Tom's "friendship" - if he ever thought of Tom Riddle as a friend.

I am certain Hagrid is now aware that Tom Riddle is Lord Voldemort. When he figured that out, exactly, is up for debate. It seems unlikely he knew it while Tom was at Hogwarts, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. It could be that Tom confided schemes to Hagrid just because he wanted someone to adore him over the summers while his usual fans were not around. Maybe, before his rise to power, Hagrid even called Tom "Lord Voldemort" for a while.

Hagrid seems like a "Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me" kind of a guy. Once he figured out exactly who Tom was, I don't think he could ever have had anything more to do with him.

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Choices - Apr 9, 2005 5:13 pm (#525 of 998)

I think the main reason Hagrid knew Tom was because Tom was a Prefect and very smart, so he was well known around Hogwarts. Tom knew Hagrid because Tom was a Prefect and Hagrid being somewhat "big" for his age, Tom knew him because of this distinction. Hagrid was the largest kid in school - he was hard to miss. I think the Prefects are in a position to know more of the kids, especially those in other houses, than just an ordinary student would. I in no way think they were friends.

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frogface - Apr 10, 2005 2:00 am (#526 of 998)

I can't see any solid evidence to suggest they were friends either, Choices is right in saying that Hagrid would have known a prefect and one of the cleverest students in the school, and Hagrid was probably the largest student in the school and so would have been known. I think Peter went there because he needed to keep an ear out for news from the outside world. He probably knows that Harry often goes there and when he is at Hagrid, they do sometimes discuss current events, and so it would be the next best place for him to go to keep an ear out for any news concerning Voldemort and other Death Eaters. At least until he could have formed a new plan.

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T Brightwater - Apr 10, 2005 9:16 am (#527 of 998)

If Scabbers normally traveled in Ron's pocket, he was probably there when Harry took Ron to visit Hagrid back in their first year. He may have known that Hagrid was allergic to cats and that he'd at least be safe from Crookshanks there.

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mooncalf - Apr 10, 2005 1:09 pm (#528 of 998) Reply
Edited by Apr 10, 2005 2:11 pm

I agree with you, Choices and frogface, I never had the impression that Hagrid and Riddle were friends - just classmates from different houses. I would assume that Hagrid probably had some self-esteem issues; he was different, his parents were gone and he wasn't very good at school. Despite his size, he would be the perfect prey for a bully, and we know that Tom Riddle had no problems preying on those who were vulnerable - or on ruining innocent lives to cover his tracks.

I think that Hagrid was just a convenient scapegoat.

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frogface - Apr 10, 2005 2:09 pm (#529 of 998)

Lol, I don't know if anyone would have the guts to bully someone Hagrid's size

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Choices - Apr 10, 2005 3:41 pm (#530 of 998)
Edited Apr 10, 2005 4:42 pm

On another thread we were talking about people who are book smart, but don't have "walking around" sense. Hagrid strikes me as just the opposite - he has common sense, but isn't very good with learning things from books. I think in school he may have been considered "big and dumb" by kids who really didn't know him, but his friends knew he had a big heart and a love for all creatures. Hagrid has a sort of natural wisdom not found in books.

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T Brightwater - Apr 10, 2005 6:28 pm (#531 of 998)

Very well put, Choices; I agree. (And the fact that he defended a giant spider against Tom Riddle shows his instincts are in the right place! :-))

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rambkowalczyk - Apr 11, 2005 4:50 am (#532 of 998)

Maybe the word friend might be strong but I suspect there was a relationship between Tom and Hagrid. Elsewhere it says that Tom knew how to flatter people. If Tom had grandiose ideas of power he knew that alliances with outcasts (giants, Dementors) could be important. Hagrid in his younger days was probably very trusting more trusting than he is now (remember he let slip how to get past Fluffy to a stranger as an adult).

It should not necessarily be a given that Hagrid had nothing to do with Tom after Tom turned him in. Only Dumbledore suspected something wasn't quite right. Tom could very well have apologized to Hagrid for turning him in saying he had to do it for the safety of the school. Even Harry originally thought that Tom was right.

The fact that there is no Dark Mark on Hagrid's forearm is an important rebuttal. Before I looked it up in the dictionary I always assumed the forearm was between the elbow and the shoulder. This might only prove that Hagrid was not in Voldemort's inner circle. He still could have been somewhat involved with Voldemort more than he should have been. Maybe Voldemort promised him a new wand if Hagrid would be his emissary to the giants.

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popkin - Apr 11, 2005 6:27 am (#533 of 998)

Maybe he didn't promise him anything. Maybe he talked with Hagrid just enough to get his tongue loosened and then went fishing for useful information. Hagrid would know things that Tom did not. He was very close to Dumbledore, and Dumbledore did not trust Tom. Hagrid was also comfortable in the Dark Forest, and could find things out there - perhaps from the centaurs or other creatures with languages. Hagrid might also have been free to go where Tom could not - like the Gryffindor common room or Dumbledore's office. Tom may have piqued his curiosity about something he thought might be in those rooms so Hagrid would be on the look out for it.

I have no doubt that Tom could have used Hagrid. If Tom realized it, then I'm sure he would not have hesitated to do so.

Aside from Harry and Ron, Hagrid is my favorite character. I like him because his intentions are always good and he is blindly loyal, but he also has some interesting character flaws that could lead to trouble. A character like Tom could exploit those flaws.

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Choices - Apr 11, 2005 8:53 am (#534 of 998)

I cannot see Hagrid knowingly joining the DE's, but what I can see is Voldemort using Hagrid without Hagrid being aware. Give Hagrid a few drinks of fire whiskey and he'll innocently let slip lots of useful information. Hagrid does tend to be too trusting and too careless about what he discusses with strangers. Because he is good and honest and loyal, he may tend to think that all people are like him......and unfortunately they're not.

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Mellilot Flower. - Apr 11, 2005 10:19 am (#535 of 998)

Didn't Voldemort already do this with the philosophers stone? What else would you call getting him drunk and bribing him for information with a dragon’s egg if not using him? There's no doubt that Voldemort would do it if he thought he would gain from it- but apart from this instance where Quirrel knew Hagrid had information, I can't see the Dark Lord expecting Hagrid to know anything of use because if Hagrid were in his, the Dark Lords company he wouldn't trust the oaf with so much as a tea spoon.

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Ponine - Apr 16, 2005 10:15 am (#536 of 998)

What bothers me about poor Hagrid is that Dumbledore has not arranged for him to be allowed to carry a wand like any other wizard. His name has been cleared (at least enough), and he is a grown (and then some) man. Considering what he has done over the years, I think it is so sad that he still has to sneak around with a pink umbrella, delighted to be allowed to do a little magic now and then. He deserves more.

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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 16, 2005 10:32 am (#537 of 998)

Ponine-Hagrid has not been cleared! He is still considered the one who was responsible for the death of Moaning Myrtle. No one knows what Tom told Harry in the Chamber. There were no witnesses who can corroborate his story. Anything Harry said would be considered tainted by Harry total devotion to Hagrid. There is also no evidence to back up what Harry has said.

No while I agree that Hagrid should be able to do his magic in the open, he like Sirius are wrongly accused individuals with little chance of clearing their names.

Mikie

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Choices - Apr 16, 2005 10:42 am (#538 of 998)

Surely Harry has told Dumbledore the whole story of what happened in the Chamber of Secrets and Dumbledore knows it was Tom who opened the Chamber and loosed the monster on the school. It was the monster that killed Myrtle, not Hagrid and Aragog. Dumbledore has to know all this - he always believes what Harry tells him. I'm sure Dumbledore would know if Harry was lying. It's time to reinstate Hagrid and give him a wand and permission to use it.

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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 16, 2005 10:45 am (#539 of 998)

But the MoM took Hagrid's wand not DD and only the MoM could give it back. We haven't been told that DD has even considered it. In my opinion because it is not a necessary part of the plot.

Mikie

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GryffEndora - Apr 16, 2005 12:34 pm (#540 of 998)
Edited Apr 16, 2005 1:34 pm

I thought that the reason Hagrid was allowed to teach (once Prof. Kettleburn retired) was because his name had been cleared the year before. Is this my false assumption or just movie contamination?

(At least I think it was Kettleburn.)

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mooncalf - Apr 16, 2005 9:00 pm (#541 of 998)

I had assumed the same thing. It is in the book; not just movie contamination.

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hells456 - Apr 17, 2005 2:28 pm (#542 of 998)

Q: Since Hagrid's name was cleared in Book 2, will he ever be allowed to do magic openly again ? (Jan Campbell)

A: He is allowed. He has been allowed to do magic openly ever since he became a teacher but because he was never fully trained his magic is never going to be what it should be. He is always going to be a bit inept. "World Exclusive Interview with J K Rowling," South West News Service, 8 July 2000

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pottermom34 - Apr 18, 2005 5:51 am (#543 of 998)

Thank You Hells 456.

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Mellilot Flower. - Apr 21, 2005 1:29 am (#544 of 998)

That doesn't really fit in with what was said in OotP does it? Correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have the books to check the facts, but doesn't Hagrid say something about having to travel slowly for a while, as he wasn't supposed to be able to use magic? Or Would he simply have been meaning he wasn't allowed to aparate, having not done the test?

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frogface - Apr 21, 2005 1:31 am (#545 of 998)

I think they travelled without magic to avoid attention from MoM as much as possible. I'm sure if he did some magic that the minstery was aware of than they would find some way to charge him even if his name has been cleared (after all they did know that he is close to Dumbledore).

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Hexenhammer - Apr 21, 2005 5:53 pm (#546 of 998)

My understanding of why Hagrid traveled abroad without using magic was, as frogface mentioned, to go undetected by the MoM and the Death Eaters. Both would have moved to stop him as fast as possible.

“Sneak! Sneak! Sneak!” Harley Quinn
-Hexenhammer

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Ydnam96 - May 14, 2005 10:09 pm (#547 of 998)

Yes, I believe you all are correct. Plus, even if he is 'allowed' to do magic, as JK has pointed out (somewhere and I don't have the quote) he hasn't had much practice, so his spells may be a bit off. Like when he tried to turn Dudley into a pig. Didn't really work.

I would love to see Hagrid get more into magic as the series goes on. I'd love to see him in battle, I think he would be a great asset to DD and Harry, seeing as that most spells bounce off of him.

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Choices - May 15, 2005 8:06 am (#548 of 998)

I think Hagrid's battle worth comes, not from his magical ability, but his great strength and his loyalty. Grawp will be valuable in battle for that same reason, his strength and loyalty will be a big asset even though he lacks magical ability.

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Ydnam96 - May 15, 2005 9:07 am (#549 of 998)

True Choices. But wouldn't it be a riot to see Hagrid throwing spells about...say turning people into pumpkins or pigs or such? I have a feeling his fighting style would be rather like Moody's. Cursing everything in sight. It would be rather fun to read!

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HungarianHorntail11 - May 15, 2005 3:09 pm (#550 of 998)

It's killing me because I can't seem to find it, but somewhere, there was a discussion regarding someone would start using magic late in life. Some people guessed Petunia. I was leaning towards A. Figg but, Ydnam96, your post made me think that it may be Hagrid.

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Robert Dierken - May 15, 2005 5:21 pm (#551 of 998)

Hagrid already started using magic. He wasn't expelled until his third year.

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Choices - May 15, 2005 5:53 pm (#552 of 998)
Edited May 15, 2005 6:54 pm

Hagrid used magic when he went to get Harry on the rock in the sea. He used magic to grow the huge pumpkins for Halloween and he asked permission of Dumbledore when he wanted to put a charm on the hen house in COS. He used a bit of magic when he and Madame Maxime went to visit the giants.....those are just a few examples. Using magic late in life would definitely not be a new thing for Hagrid.

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HungarianHorntail11 - May 15, 2005 5:53 pm (#553 of 998)
Edited May 15, 2005 6:54 pm

Yes he was, but he had to keep it hidden. He may brush up on it and actually be allowed to use it for the first time since he was expelled without having to hide it or ask permission.

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Snuffles - May 16, 2005 2:32 am (#554 of 998)

I thought that since HRH cleared Hagrid of opening the chamber in COS,then became a teacher in POA that he is allowed to do magic now. It may not be as advanced as the rest of the professors seeing as he didn't finish his schooling, but I think he is allowed to do it now without asking permission.

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T Brightwater - May 16, 2005 4:47 am (#555 of 998)

Snuffles, I'm pretty sure JKR said almost exactly what you did in an interview somewhere, or possibly on her website. I don't think she has said whether Hagrid will get a new wand, though. Come to think of it, we haven't seen his pink umbrella lately, so maybe he already has.

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HungarianHorntail11 - May 16, 2005 3:07 pm (#556 of 998)

I guess it is like the situation with the Marauders' Map. We should just have figured that Harry went back into Moody's office and swiped it back.

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Madame Pomfrey - May 16, 2005 4:13 pm (#557 of 998)

I'm having a mental infarct.  Does anyone know what house Hagrid was in?  The reason I ask is because Tom Riddle seemed to get to him easily enough to confront him about Aragog.  I seem to remember it being in an area that reminded Harry of Snapes room if I'm not mistaken.  Was he possibly in Slytherin?

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Choices - May 16, 2005 4:48 pm (#558 of 998)
Edited May 16, 2005 5:49 pm

Hagrid was sorted into Gryffindor House in 1940 and was expelled from Hogwarts in 1943.

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Madame Pomfrey - May 18, 2005 11:12 am (#559 of 998)

Thanks Choices,I feel much better now!

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So Sirius - May 19, 2005 11:00 am (#560 of 998)

Although Hagrid has done magic, in secret, for some time, he made it clear to Harry that he's not allowed to perform magic. Perhaps this travesty that was imposed on him gets lifted and we see him conjure spells out in the open and they're better than even he thought he was able to do.

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Choices - May 19, 2005 2:00 pm (#561 of 998)

I think JKR has stated that since Hagrid was cleared of charges in the COS thing and he has become a professor, he is now allowed to do magic without asking permission.

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Cornelia - May 20, 2005 10:48 pm (#562 of 998)
Edited May 20, 2005 11:49 pm

Q: Since Hagrid's name was cleared in Book 2, will he ever be allowed to do magic openly again ? (Jan Campbell)

A: He is allowed. He has been allowed to do magic openly ever since he became a teacher but because he was never fully trained his magic is never going to be what it should be. He is always going to be a bit inept

(South West News Service Interview 2000)

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Steven Farrington - Jun 23, 2005 9:58 am (#563 of 998)

I was re-reading book 5, getting ready for the Half-Blood Prince....when in chapter 33, something hit me as very odd....and I don't see where anyone else has commented on this bit....Umbridge calls Hagrid....."...the great half-breed oaf....".....hmmmmm,...to me it sounds like the other half of Half-Blood Prince.....anyone else think it might be Hagrid??

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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 23, 2005 1:27 pm (#564 of 998)
Edited Jun 23, 2005 2:28 pm

Steven,I believe she calls Hagrid a half breed oaf because he's half giant and half wizard  .He's not a half blood meaning half wizard and half muggle but there are some who believe that Hagrid may be the HBP.

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Netherlandic - Jun 26, 2005 8:40 am (#565 of 998)

I hope Dumbledore will teach Hagrid anew now that he is allowed to do magic. Private lessons perhaps?

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Penny Lane. - Jun 26, 2005 12:20 pm (#566 of 998)

I hope Hagrid can get a real wand, instead of using the broken one in the umbrella. I also wonder if Umbridge's anti-half breed legislation might have something to do with why he hasn't gotten a new one yet.

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HungarianHorntail11 - Jun 26, 2005 12:58 pm (#567 of 998)

Now that the return of Big V has been realized, I would think DD would be pulling out all the stops. He needs all good people to be armed and ready for anything. I can't imagine not allowing Hagrid to arm himself with a wand.

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Ms Amanda - Jun 28, 2005 7:28 pm (#568 of 998)

Hi all! On the "Shack on the large rock way out to sea" Thread, I've been participating in a lively discussion of exactly how Hagrid arrived there on Harry's eleventh birthday.

Specifically, it doesn't seem to me that Hagrid should be allowed to apparate in PS/SS (it requires more magical training than Hagrid has and it requires a license from the MoM), although Hagrid seems to have the ability to disappear into thin air. (Thanks for pointing that out to me, Solitaire!)

My pet theory is that Sirius' motorcycle is at the shack, as I don't remember the book saying that Hagrid has flown on anything else, and Hagrid specifically states that he flew.

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Marè - Jun 29, 2005 2:54 am (#569 of 998)

Thanks Ms Amanda.

Jo said in an interview that the "real Harry Potter sleuths" had already figured out where the motor was. I never could come up with something better than "Hagrid stacked it in the forest".
But this makes perfect sense. I might have to check out the "Shack on the large tock etc." thread. It seems that we might return there after all!

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popkin - Jun 29, 2005 4:34 am (#570 of 998)

Since book five, I've thought he rode a thestral.

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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 29, 2005 5:32 am (#571 of 998)

That sounds logical Popkin  .In book 1 Hagrid stated he was returning the bike to Sirius after they left Harry on the Dursley's doorstep.  Sirius at that time was not yet accused of the muggles and Wormtails murder so I'm assuming he returned the bike to Sirius wherever that might have been.  Does anyone know the time frame between Voldemorts vaportism and Sirius Blacks capture? I could be wrong but I don’t think they both occurred on Halloween.

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HungarianHorntail11 - Jun 29, 2005 12:50 pm (#572 of 998)

I think that part gets a little fuzzy, Madame Pomfrey. All we are told by Hagrid is that Sirius told him to keep it because he wouldn't be needing it.

My best guess is that it's in the forbidden forest, since he hides everything in there: Hippogriffs, thestrals, even his latest venture - Grawp.

Also, JKR seems to hide some things there on occasion: Quirrelmort and the Ford Anglia.

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Marè - Jun 29, 2005 2:58 pm (#573 of 998)
Edited Jun 29, 2005 4:00 pm

Somehow I always figured that Hagrid would be a bit heavy for a thestral. We already have one creature that can lift enormous weights. Two species would be a bit much, I think. Off course a thestral would be a simple explanation why Hagrid made no problem of going back in a different way then he came. The thestral would find his way back without him.

And I always believed that the moment Sirius gave Hagrid his bike to bring Harry to four Privet Drive, when he told Hagrid he didn't need it anymore, was just before he went to search for Wormtail. And afterwards off course he ended in Azkaban..
So I think Hagrid still has the bike, and if this is again something that is hidden in the forest, I would find it a bit boring. so I'm hoping for the shack at the sea.

I don't have book 1 with me right now, but when Hagrid arrives there is a loud storm right? So you wouldn't hear a motorbike arriving.

Another question, in which book is it that Harry says he has been dreaming about flying motorbikes and Mr Dursley completely flips in response. Could this be because he has actually encountered a magical bike somewhere? Say a certain shack on a rock?

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 29, 2005 3:06 pm (#574 of 998)

Marè, it is in PS/SS p. 25 Scholastic Hardbound. Harry mentions he had a dream about flying motorcycles on the way to the Zoo for Dudley.'s birthday. I think Uncle Vernon flew off the handle because it smacks of Magic.

After book 5 I thought Hagrid rode a Thestral to the shack. It would be able to take care of itself. Though I would not put it past Hagrid to illegally learn to apparaite or still be using the motorbike. LPO

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 29, 2005 3:58 pm (#575 of 998)

Maybe Hagrid rode Buckbeak to the shack. After all, he seemed to have no qualms about putting Harry on him. It suggested to me that maybe Buckbeak was already broke to ride.

...just thought I'd throw that out there before I toddle off...

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MickeyCee3948 - Jun 29, 2005 4:28 pm (#576 of 998)

I agree that it was most likely a creature that carried Hagrid to the "sea shack". I believe like several of you that the bike is in the forbidden forest. I believe that Harry's dream about flying bikes could be a early recollection or feeling he had from the night he was carried by Hagrid to the Dursleys at the beginning of the saga.

Mickey

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 29, 2005 9:08 pm (#577 of 998)
Edited Jun 29, 2005 10:09 pm

That was how it felt to me Mickey, when I first read it. Is probably the best remembrance a one year old can recall, by dreams. How far back into our early childhoods can most of us remember?

Edited so it makes sense, I hope...

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frogface - Jun 30, 2005 2:36 am (#578 of 998)

It all depends, its most likely a sub-conscious memory as Harry had a dream about it. I'm not entirely sure of the limitations of the sub-conscious mind but I've heard that you'd be amazed about what your sub-conscious mind is aware of, yet you yourself are not. I like to think Hagrid used to bike to get the shack because I don't think Threstrals or Hippogriffs are large enough to carry him, and because its just seems more interesting.

Plus look at the clues, the bike is mentioned twice in the few chapters before, and Hagrid says that he flew. That rules out port keys or apparation to me, some people have tried to argue that they could be called methods of flying but I think thats just reaching really.

Having said that I'm at a loss as to how Hagrid leaving Sirius' bike on that small island could further the plot anyway, but perhaps he will give the bike to Harry? After all their relationship at the end of OotP was left on slightly rocky ground, maybe Hagrid will want to show that he to supports Harry by giving him something to remember Sirius by.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 30, 2005 11:24 am (#579 of 998)

I'm not sure giving Harry a means of transportation would be very wise. But then I doubt Hagrid would think much of it. If Hagrid left the bike on the island I'm sure he retrieved it on his way back to Hogwarts. LPO

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Miriam Huber - Jun 30, 2005 12:51 pm (#580 of 998)

“Harry heard something creak outside. He hoped the roof wasn´t going to fall in. ... Was that the sea, slapping hard on the rock like that? ... what was that funny crunching noise? Was the rock crumbling into the sea? ... boum! (PS) “

Doesn´t sound like a motorbike to me. If the storm had been too ferocious to hear the motorbike, Harry wouldn´t have heard the crunching (probably Hagrid´s feet on the rock) either, I suppose. But the noises leave me clueless. creaking - slapping like water - crunching ...?

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HungarianHorntail11 - Jun 30, 2005 4:21 pm (#581 of 998)

Was the rock crumbling into the sea?

It could have been the thundering of the motor. Funny crunching noise . . . the wheels rolling to a stop and cracking branches, or just Hagrid's huge footsteps.

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The giant squid - Jul 1, 2005 3:49 am (#582 of 998)

The "slapping hard on the rock" sound could have been Hagrid landing the bike, followed by him walking up to the shack--the "crunching" noise. I don't picture Hagrid as being too graceful with his landings.

Regardless of the method, though, I'm sure the odd sounds are supposed to herald Hagrid's arrival--otherwise why mention them? We've already been told there's a storm raging, there's no need to point out odd sounds unless they have a specific purpose. Since there's no other significant mention of the weather after Hagrid's arrival, it's gotta be Hagrid landing outside.

--Mike

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Ms Amanda - Jul 1, 2005 3:03 pm (#583 of 998)

Frankly, the mention of thunder so late in the storm seems to me to be a reference to motor noise. Surely if the storm had been raging, thunder wouldn't be an unusual noise. Why mention it right before midnight?

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haymoni - Jul 1, 2005 4:10 pm (#584 of 998)

The slapping could be the thestral's wings, although I'm still partial to the motorbike theory.

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rambkowalczyk - Jul 1, 2005 7:26 pm (#585 of 998)

If Hagrid took the bike to the shack, why didn't he take Harry back on it?

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The giant squid - Jul 1, 2005 10:23 pm (#586 of 998)
Edited Jul 1, 2005 11:24 pm

Well, ramb, that's the one stumbling block we've had all along with this theory. If you've got the bike, why leave it there to row back in the one boat, stranding the Dursleys?

Come to think of it, how did the Dursleys get back home? They must have flown the motorbike! (Okay, I'm only kidding...or am I?)

--Mike

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Ms Amanda - Jul 2, 2005 5:26 am (#587 of 998)

Well, my theory for why he left the bike there is that he didn't want the memory hanging around the hut.

See, being the romantic Hagrid is, he would have remembered that he delivered Harry to the Dursley's using that bike. I'm sure, thinking that Sirius was a murderer, Hagrid didn't plan on using the bike. But, when it was his duty to go retrieve Harry from the Dursleys, he made the gesture of returning on the magic motorbike.

Then, hating Sirius for betraying the Potters, he left the bike there to rust.

Plus, he says he's not technically to do magic, now that he's got Harry.

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T Brightwater - Jul 2, 2005 7:52 am (#588 of 998)

I think he took a thestral, and then told it to meet him somewhere else so that he didn't have to return to the hut on the rock. I also wonder if he charmed the rowboat to return while Harry wasn't looking.

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popkin - Jul 2, 2005 8:18 am (#589 of 998) Reply
Edited by Jul 2, 2005 9:19 am

I think Hagrid stranded the Dursleys and they waited at the hut until someone came out with another boat and got them, making their retreat all the more traumatic. It is possible that he told Dumbledore or the old guy who rented them the shack that the Dursleys would need rescuing, but probably not before they'd had time to contemplate the seriousness of their situation.

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Steve Newton - Jul 2, 2005 11:16 am (#590 of 998)

I can't figure out why people seem to think that the Dursleys were stranded. Any place that I have rented the landlord always checked after the check out time to see the condition of the place. The landlord would certainly come to the island the next day.

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MickeyCee3948 - Jul 2, 2005 12:50 pm (#591 of 998)

To check what Steve! Maybe to just to make sure the shack was standing? Didn't seem like much of a place. If I was the landlord I would have stayed put and drank another pint or two. Not trying to be argumentative just wondering why check.

Mickey

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haymoni - Jul 2, 2005 12:55 pm (#592 of 998)

Maybe they had to pay when they left - the landlord didn't get his money so he went to check on them. I'm sure he would have noticed their car sitting there.

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The giant squid - Jul 2, 2005 2:32 pm (#593 of 998)

I can't figure out why people seem to think that the Dursleys were stranded.--Steve Newton

Maybe the owner came out, maybe he didn't. The point is, they went out on a boat, and Hagrid took that boat when he left with Harry. Since there was no phone, no radio, no contact with the outside world, the Dursleys weer stranded until someone came to get them. Whether it was an hour or a week, they had no way of leaving under their own power. Thus, "stranded".

--Mike

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Steve Newton - Jul 2, 2005 4:29 pm (#594 of 998)

As I said the landlord is going to make sure that his tenants don't owe him more money. I see no mystery.

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Ydnam96 - Jul 3, 2005 12:02 am (#595 of 998)

Didn't the book say something about the guy he rented the place from also gave him the only boat? I may be way off...but I thought it was the only boat there and after Hagrid took it back to the other side the landlord would have had to take it back over for the Dursleys to use to get back. Although...he probably thought it was strange that the boat was back at the dock.

Hagrid may have talked to the landlord, but then the landlord would have asked Hagrid how he got to the island in the first place. But that is all based on the idea that there is only one boat. Which I could be completely wrong about.

I still like the idea of Hagrid being transported to the island by a portkey. DD could have set it up for Hagrid's umbrella to be the portkey. I mean, you can use anything. And DD has done it other times in the books.

JMTK

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frogface - Jul 3, 2005 3:25 am (#596 of 998)
Edited Jul 3, 2005 4:28 am

I still think that using portkey's or apparation don't constitute as flying. Don't laugh but in a way they remind me of Star Trek. You know how they had a machine that could transport them around? They always used to say "beam us up scottie". Thats how I see Portkey's or apparation. I'm not a Star Trek fan but surely everyone remembers what I'm talking about?

Anyway, my point is that Hagrid says he flew, so I've always taken that literally. So I think that the options are:

1) A massive broom.

2) A flying creature (A hippogriff or Threstral, or something bigger that could support him)

3) Sirius' motorbike.

4) A method of flying we don't know about, or haven't seen yet.

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Ms Amanda - Jul 3, 2005 5:05 am (#597 of 998)

Frogface, that list is wonderful. Thanks.

Now, of those things, what has Hagrid say he doesn't fly on? I seem to remember Hagrid mentioning to Professor Umbridge in OotP that he doesn't ride broomsticks. Could someone please find the quote for me? Of course, frogface, you solved that problem by saying "massive broom."

So that leaves Hagrid flying on the motorbike or on a wee beastie that he cares for (which we've never heard of him doing) or a massive broom or some other method we've never seen him use before.

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Ydnam96 - Jul 3, 2005 8:58 pm (#598 of 998)

You could be right, but it could also be a colloquialism (spelling?). Hagrid said he flew there. Maybe he was using that in the same way I say “I am running to the store.” I'm not literally “running” to the store. Or some people use the word "flew" to mean that one travelled quickly, as you "wow, you really flew over here fast".

??

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T Brightwater - Jul 7, 2005 7:24 pm (#599 of 998)

Given that Apparation is pretty difficult and Hagrid was not a fully qualified wizard, I think we can rule that one out.

The advantage of a thestral is that he wouldn't have had to go back to the hut to pick it up; he could have just told it to meet him somewhere. I'm not sure if the hippogriffs are as well trained, since they aren't used for school transport. Or perhaps someone loaned him an Abraxan horse?

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jul 8, 2005 2:18 am (#600 of 998)

"Yeah, tha's right. Over… over a friend's broomstick. I don' fly, meself. Well, look at the size o' me, I don' reckon there's a broomstick that'd hold me. Friend o' mine breeds Abraxan horses, 1 dunno if you've ever seen 'em, big beasts, winged, yeh know, I've had a bit of a ride on one o' them an' it was -"

Possible...then again...

...toddles off...

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Netherlandic - Jul 9, 2005 5:07 am (#601 of 998)

Perhaps he used an Abraxian horse, or don't they have wings?

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Mrs Brisbee - Jul 9, 2005 5:48 am (#602 of 998)
Edited Jul 9, 2005 6:50 am

I think Hagrid was implying that the only flying creatures big enough to carry him are the Abraxan horses (okay, maybe dragons, but I don't know that they are used as steeds). But I don't think he had access to them at back in book 1 when he went to get Harry.

That would mean he is too big for thestrals (if he could ride a thestral, why did he need to borrow the bike in the first place?). He has said he is too big for brooms. "Flew" couldn't have been a play on "Floo" because he didn't pop out of the fireplace. So I'm going with the flying motorbike.

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timrew - Jul 9, 2005 2:45 pm (#603 of 998)

Maybe he uses two thestrals..............one under each foot.

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Choices - Jul 9, 2005 5:34 pm (#604 of 998)
Edited Jul 9, 2005 6:36 pm

Maybe he used an "engorgement charm" like faux Moody used on the spider - I think it was an engorgement charm - correct me if I'm wrong.

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Mrs Brisbee - Jul 10, 2005 5:24 am (#605 of 998)

Maybe he uses two thestrals..............one under each foot. –timrew

ROFL --dear me, what a sight that would be! But maybe you are on to something... that canary yellow thing Hagrid was crocheting on the train is really a sling, to be suspended under the eight thestrals used to fly him across the countryside like some weird otherworldly hot air balloon! (if Hagrid is "twice as tall as a normal man" then he will weigh eight times as much)

Choices, I think you are right and if Hagrid can do an Engorgement charm he could do the opposite and shrink himself. But really, don't you think that's just too simple of a solution??? It needs to be complicated! Complicated, I say!!!

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MickeyCee3948 - Jul 10, 2005 7:33 am (#606 of 998)
Edited Jul 10, 2005 8:34 am

I hate to be a wet blanket but I seriously doubt if the method of travel to the small isle in the sea in PS/SS is an essential question that JKR will feel required to explain. Seriously doubt if it will impact the plot for the final two books. Sorry JM2K's.

Mickey

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Ms Amanda - Jul 10, 2005 8:05 am (#607 of 998)

Hi, MickeyCee! I suppose that I was reacting to JKR saying that we should know where the motorcycle is, if we are good sleuths.

Hagrid had it last, and he flew to the island somehow.

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MickeyCee3948 - Jul 10, 2005 1:50 pm (#608 of 998)
Edited Jul 10, 2005 2:51 pm

What I am saying is we have no confirmation that he flew it to the island. Personally, I believe it is at Spinner's End where Hagrid returned it to Sirius's garage after dropping off Harry at the Dursley's. I think that is where Harry will go to when he leaves #4 for training with Dumbledore and he will find it there.

Mickey

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frogface - Jul 11, 2005 12:55 am (#609 of 998)

Mickey you're probably right that the way that Hagrid got to the island is of no consequence. But we've probably done that a million times on the forum with all sorts of little details, its just a bit of fun. If we had any confirmation that he did fly the bike to the island we probably wouldn't be discussing it at all would we? We've only got four days left so I expect alot of us are doing quite a bit of over-analysis!

I like the idea that Hagrid used to bike to collect Harry, because he was using something that has a connection to Harry's past to collect him and bring him back into the Wizarding World, and because he used it before to bring Harry to Privat Drive.

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Mrs Brisbee - Jul 11, 2005 5:25 am (#610 of 998)

its just a bit of fun –frogface

I agree.

I also think Hagrid flew the bike to pick up Harry. The bike was mentioned in chapter 1 as a way Hagrid could fly. Why do something different and secret?

If I keep going on about thestrals, its only because after reading Black Beauty during my youth I am sympathetic to the plight of overworked equines. The thought of a 1000 lb. man flying all over the U.K. on a winged horse alarms me. Poor thestral.

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Choices - Jul 11, 2005 9:50 am (#611 of 998)

Well, I can't help but use logic to look at this question. If Hagrid did use the motorbike to fly to the island, why did he leave it there? Why did he not just put Harry on the back and fly back to the mainland? It seems more logical that he flew on a Thestral, who immediately took off to return to the Forbidden Forest where it lives, thus leaving Hagrid and Harry to use the boat to get back to the mainland. The weight problem doesn't bother me - the Thestral and Hagrid are both magical, the Thestral can find places even in a storm or in the dark and they can find their way back home. Just seems logical to me that Hagrid used a Thestral.

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Snuffles - Jul 11, 2005 11:13 am (#612 of 998)

I agree Choices. I always imagined Hagrid travelling on a Thestral. Harry had only just found out he was a wizard, I think travelling on a magical beast he couldn't see, just a bit too much for him to take. The Thestral would just find his own way back to Hogwarts. Sirius' bike IMO is in the forbidden forest.

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MickeyCee3948 - Jul 11, 2005 4:07 pm (#613 of 998)

If you want to look at that question I have another for you. How did Hagrid with his size get into a little row boat and take Harry back to the shore from the cabin? His size should have overloaded a muggle row boat and they would have sunk.

Mickey

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Ms Amanda - Jul 11, 2005 4:34 pm (#614 of 998)

Well, if it was the row boat that the Dursley's took there, then it should have been big enough for Vernon (big guy), Dudley (big guy), Petunia and Harry. Apparently Hagrid does not displace much more water than Vernon, Dudley, and Petunia.

And no one is sure during PS/SS that Harry won't be able to see thestrals. No one at that point knows for certain that Harry did not see his mother die. Would Hagrid risk frightening Harry with the skeletal horses?

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The giant squid - Jul 11, 2005 11:03 pm (#615 of 998)

Ms Amanda, that's the reason I came up with for Hagrid not taking Harry back on the thestral (assuming he arrived on one). They know Harry was present when his parents were killed, so the possibility that he might be able to see the thestral is probably something Dumbledore didn't want to chance. After all, he's just now being introduced to the fact that there is a Wizarding World; now is not the time to spring a nasty-looking winged horse on him.

--Mike

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Ponine - Jul 12, 2005 5:19 pm (#616 of 998)

I suppose I have never given this much thought, but after reading frogface's post, I must say I am inclined to agree; I think it would be nice symbolic value if the bike that was used to remove Harry from the Wizarding World was used again to bring him back in. I also must admit that I think the noises Harry heard right before Hagrid came in could very well be sounds of a motorcycle and the perhaps less-than-graceful Hagrid. Arriving on the island in a storm in the middle of the night by flying bike might have been one thing, but flying out in the middle of the day with Harry on the back (if there would be room, mind you) when he was not supposed to use magic at all, seems like a stretch to me.

I would not be surprised if the bike somehow ended up with Arthur, personally... It might even have inspired the creation of a Ford Anglia...

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jul 12, 2005 11:33 pm (#617 of 998)

Oh my! Inapproprate charms on a motorcycle?

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Choices - Jul 14, 2005 7:56 am (#618 of 998)

Ponine - "I think it would be nice symbolic value if the bike that was used to remove Harry from the Wizarding World was used again to bring him back in."

That would be nice symbolically - the bike was used to take Harry out of the magical world to the Dursleys, but it was only possibly used to bring Hagrid to the shack on the rock, not to take Harry back to the magical world - a boat was used for that, and the subway (to London) and the Hogwart's Express.

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HungarianHorntail11 - Jul 14, 2005 9:44 am (#619 of 998)

I had this thought that left me a bit concerned about Hagrid. Every time he leaves Harry behind, he leaves him with a clue to help him out with his mystery (as when he was leaving for Azkaban in CoS). He also has asked Harry and Hermoine to look after Grawp for him. He was repeatedly getting bloodied worse and worse (by Grawp, of course) and to me it may represent that his overall situation seems to be getting worse. The point I am trying to arrive at is that if I searched more throughout the books, would it seem to anyone else that Hagrid may be the character we lose?

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popkin - Aug 3, 2005 7:54 pm (#620 of 998)

With McGonagall moved on to Headmaster, do you think Hagrid will become the head of Gryffindor House? That is, if Hogwarts remains open..... How would that work with him living outside the castle in his hut? His detentions would be very interesting.

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haymoni - Aug 3, 2005 8:00 pm (#621 of 998)

I think Minerva had that plan as soon as she asked him to come to the office.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 3, 2005 8:22 pm (#622 of 998)

I think Hagrid might be the new Head of Gryffindor House or at least acting head for awhile because, there is the possibility that a new headmaster could be brought in from the outside with Minerva retaining her positions as Deputy Headmistress and head of Gryffindor House.

If Minerva becomes headmistress. I think Hagrid would be a good choice to succeed her because, the other teachers like and respect him. Also, he was loved and respected by both Albus and Minerva. As to Hagrid enforcing the rules and having his decisions I do not believe he would be challenged by the Gryffindor's because, the Gryffindor Prefects and their Quidditch Captain love and respect Hagrid. That will be enough for the first through fourth years who will follow the elders of their house.

If Hagrid becomes the permanent head of Gryffindor House. I think Argus may succeed him as Keeper of the Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts.

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Finn BV - Aug 4, 2005 5:05 pm (#623 of 998)

I agree, Hagrid will become Gryffindor HoH.

This will convince those readers who are unsure whether he was in Hufflepuff or Gryffindor, as all HoHs were in their house once.

I am glad Hagrid is rising in salary terms of view.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 5, 2005 12:29 pm (#624 of 998)

I'm not sure Hagrid would want to be a Head of House. I think he likes being Head of the Forest. Minerva will have to fill a couple posts. There will need to be a new Transfiguration teacher and of course DADA. Maybe one of the them will become head of Gryffindor. I really liked the trust Minerva placed in Hagrid during the discussions. Popkin I shudder to think what Hagrid's detentions would be like. We know even if Hogwarts closes Hagrid will stay on. I think that might be important for Harry. LPO

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T Brightwater - Aug 5, 2005 2:14 pm (#625 of 998)

I've started a "Reorganization at Hogwarts" thread if anybody wants a more general discussion on who's going to do what next year.

I hadn't thought of Hagrid as Head of Gryffindor - would he try to make Grawp the new gamekeeper & keeper of keys?

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 5, 2005 3:24 pm (#626 of 998)

Actually, we have seen what his detentions would be like. In PS/SS he was in charge of the Harry/Draco/Neville/Hermione detention in the forbidden forest where they found Quirrel sucking unicorn blood. We don't know if he actually created that detention, or was on someone elses orders, but I think it counts.

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T Brightwater - Aug 5, 2005 5:42 pm (#627 of 998)

Ooops, there was already a "Future of Hogwarts" thread - sorry about that!

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Good Evans - Oct 7, 2005 9:34 am (#628 of 998)

I was thinking about Hagrid earlier today (I really must make that appointment at St Mungo's!) and it struck me that he has a real beef against LV. LV got him expelled, all those years ago and his name has never been cleared (well except in Dumbledore and the trio's eyes) as no one knows the truth.

Hagrid is scared of LV, but I think if push comes to shove (especially as now the great man DD has gone too) he will be willing to take on LV for his own reasons and revenge. Hagrid we know is not great shakes at Magic, but he is ok. His Giant Blood also protects him to an extent. I wonder how significant this could be in the final battle, either to protect / save or even to bring Harry in to the final Melee.

Just an observation, but I am not sure if we have discussed Hagrid’s own motives and or need for revenge against LV.

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haymoni - Oct 7, 2005 9:38 am (#629 of 998)

“I would trust Hagrid with my life.”

Could be that Hagrid has enough on his plate as it is.

Compared to what others have experienced at the hands of Voldy and his followers, Hagrid got off easy being expelled from school.

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Good Evans - Oct 7, 2005 9:53 am (#630 of 998)

I doubt Hagrid would think he got off easy, his life changed dramatically, he was expelled and could no longer do magic. He has been laughed at and treated poorly by the likes of the Malfoy (and I am sure many more before them), only really getting any respect when DD appointed him as a Teacher. I grant you his parents did not die at LV hands. But besides harry, from the Main characters, I would argue that his is the only one with a real personal reason to want to have personal revenge. Hermione - no beef / Ron - no beef (his uncles' death he does not appear to know of and Bills attack is more directed at Greyback than LV (IMO)/ DD no longer in the picture / McGonagall- no knowledge / Arthur and Molly (well Molly has her brothers but I dont see her getting in to a rage and jumping out at LV!) - I think what I am trying to say is that Hagrid has a real reason to want revenge and it could lead him/ or others in to Peril in the final book.

thats all...

Haymoni - are you suggesting that Hagrid is in some way entrusted with DD's life - that indeed would be a lot on his plate?

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haymoni - Oct 7, 2005 10:12 am (#631 of 998)

Yes - I just can't help wonder about that line.

Who in their right mind would trust Hagrid with their life???

Dumbledore. Why?

It has to be something more than being willing to send Hagrid to fetch Harry or the Stone. It was just a strange line and to say it to Minerva who certainly would know Hagrid's history and loyalty to Dumbledore was even more strange.

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HungarianHorntail11 - Oct 7, 2005 12:25 pm (#632 of 998)

I just figured Minerva thought of Hagrid as a big oaf and DD was letting her know not to write him off so easily, but usually if something gives you that intangible feeling, it's worth investigating.

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Ana Cis - Oct 7, 2005 8:13 pm (#633 of 998) Reply
Edited by Oct 7, 2005 9:14 pm

This was probably posted before, but it is there more to DD's statement that he trusts Hagrid with his life than just an emphasis on his trust?

Has there been any events in the series where DD showed that type of trust?



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HungarianHorntail11 - Oct 8, 2005 3:36 am (#634 of 998)

The only thing that comes to mind is when DD states in front of the council that Snape is no more a DE than DD is.

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rambkowalczyk - Oct 8, 2005 5:33 am (#635 of 998)

I think what Dumbledore trust is Hagrid's heart. He is generally kind and doesn't seem to dwell on past injustices. Like Harry, Hagrid will never be tempted to go to the dark side.

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Soul Search - Oct 8, 2005 7:40 am (#636 of 998)

Hagrid has the kindest soul of anyone we have met in the wizarding world.

He is kind to creatures, even those many would find horrible. Hagrid is also kind and forgiving of people. Best example is Draco; even though Draco tried to get Hagrid dismissed and Buckbeak beheaded, Hagrid does not seem to bear him any malice.

Dumbledore is also very forgiving of people. Hagrid has been at Hogwarts and Dumbledore for over fifty years. He may have picked up some of his kindness from Dumbledore, but I think it is his basic nature to be kind to all living things.

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Steve Newton - Oct 8, 2005 7:48 am (#637 of 998)

While I agree that Hagrid is extraordinarily kind, let’s not forget that he can get his back up. He takes no lip from the centaurs in OOTP.

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Soul Search - Oct 8, 2005 12:53 pm (#638 of 998)

And he does carry a crossbow when he goes into the Forbidden Forest.

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Ana Cis - Oct 8, 2005 4:59 pm (#639 of 998) Reply
Edited by Oct 8, 2005 6:00 pm

I believe that Hagrid has a very tender and loving heart. Although, his ire can be something terrible to behold, it takes a lot to anger him. Still for Dumbledore to say he trusts Hagrid with his life, knowing that Hagrid is a bit naïve (can be easily taken in), and tends to drink quite a bit, which leads to talk more than he should, leads me to ask if there's more to Hagrid than what we've been given so far. Dumbledore doesn't exaggerate or speaks without realizing "exactly what he's saying". Representing Jo, he words his comments as carefully as she does.

I may be grasping at straws here, but that's OK; it's what this forum is about. I suspect there's more to DD's comment than just an emphasis about his trust for Hagrid.



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Snuffles - Oct 10, 2005 12:56 am (#640 of 998)
Edited Oct 10, 2005 1:56 am

DD trusts Hagrid with his life.

We know that it was Hagrid who carried DD's supposed body at the funeral. Maybe, as some believe (me included), DD isn't really dead and Hagrid is the only one who really knows about it.

He trusts Hagrid with his biggest secret, his life secret, and the fact that he is still living!

**was that the bell? must be the St. Mungo's carriage**

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HungarianHorntail11 - Oct 10, 2005 12:17 pm (#641 of 998)

Snuffles, wouldn't that be funny? The biggest secret yet entrusted to the loose-lipped Hagrid.

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Choices - Oct 11, 2005 5:13 pm (#642 of 998)

Maybe Dumbledore's words, "I would trust Hagrid with my life", have a deeper meaning than we could have imagined back there in book one.

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popkin - Oct 11, 2005 8:24 pm (#643 of 998)

In OOTP, when Hagrid is forced out of Hogwarts, he goes to help Dumbledore. I have thought since then that Hagrid must be Dumbledore's secret keeper. How else would he know where to go to help Dumbledore?

Although Hagrid does say things he should not when he is drunk and an interestin' creature is involved, he has been very tight lipped about things that are very important to him. No one ever suspected that Hagrid was half-giant, and Hagrid never told anyone until he decided it was prudent. I think Dumbledore could trust Hagrid to be his secret keeper and know he would never be betrayed.

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wynnleaf - Oct 12, 2005 5:24 am (#644 of 998)

I agree that Hagrid can keep a secret if it's really important to him. But what he can't do is keep a secret and not let anyone know he's got a secret should they ask. He can't play ignorant if he actually has knowledge of something.

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popkin - Oct 13, 2005 4:27 pm (#645 of 998)

He didn't let anyone know he had a secret about himself - that he was half-giant.

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wynnleaf - Oct 13, 2005 5:04 pm (#646 of 998)

Well, nobody asked him did they? When HRH started questioning him, it started getting obvious he had a secret.

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Choices - Oct 15, 2005 4:37 pm (#647 of 998)

I like the suggestion someone made about Hagrid letting slip some secrets that perhaps Dumbledore wanted Harry to find out. Hagrid just pretended he wasn't supposed to tell, but actually Harry was supposed to learn that information so he could do whatever it was Dumbledore wanted him to do.

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RoseMorninStar - Oct 15, 2005 6:33 pm (#648 of 998)

Choices~ interesting observation. I think we have all known people like that. You tell someone a secret, someone who you KNOW cannot keep a secret...furthermore, you tell them it is a secret..so you KNOW it won't stay a secret for long...but you really want people to know, but you don't want them to know you want them to know. LOL.. Does that make sense?

It is sort of like what teenage girls do when they like someone.

Perhaps Dumbledore wanted Harry to learn some persuasive and sleuthing skills?

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frogface - Oct 16, 2005 8:16 am (#649 of 998)
Edited Oct 16, 2005 9:16 am

I never thought of Dumbledore being similar to a teenage girl. But then again it gives me a headache trying to work out his motives so I guess he IS quite like a teenage girl

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Ydnam96 - Dec 23, 2005 9:13 am (#650 of 998)

Hmmm...to change topics (I searched and didn't find this but maybe my search words weren't great).

Anybody else think that Hagrid might now turn out to be promoted to Head of Gryffindor?

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haymoni - Dec 23, 2005 10:13 am (#651 of 998)

I think he will, Mandy. We don't really know of anyone else that is on staff that is from Gryffindor.

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Honour - Dec 23, 2005 6:05 pm (#652 of 998)

Playing devils advocate here, but I can't really see it. Hagrid is not qualified as an ordinary wizard let alone a Headmaster of a school, he hasn't even had enough experience as a teacher and professor?

Also, are you assuming that Minerva will automatically be made head? Why would you assume this? In most cases wouldn't the position come up for tenure? The Board would just as likely put Slughorn in charge wouldn't they? Or bring in (heaven forbid), Dolorus?

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Choices - Dec 23, 2005 6:49 pm (#653 of 998)

I think they are talking about Hagrid becoming the new head of Gryffindor House (taking over from McGonagall), not the whole school. He is a former Gryffindor and is a professor now - I think that would qualify him.

I think people are thinking McGonagall will become the new Head Mistress of Hogwarts because she has been Dumbledore's assistant for so long and is next in line. It is possible however, that the MOM could step in and take over or the Board of Directors would make a different choice. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

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Honour - Dec 23, 2005 9:25 pm (#654 of 998)

Hey thanks Choices "twas a slip of the key board", meant to write "head of house".... Would prefer to see Remus, but I s'pose the werewolf thing could hinder him, for that matter, the giant thing could count against Hagrid too!

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me and my shadow 813 - Dec 24, 2005 5:23 pm (#655 of 998)

I think it would be a great message *for the kid readers* to have Hagrid become Head of Gryffindor.

Hagrid seems positioned in the books to become either a political (MoM) or academic leader. He's the only (male) wizard we know who's half magical creature and I think with all the "half-blood" stuff going on it would be great for him to be included in the positive aspects of that. So with Maxine hopefully admitting her own half-bloodedness, he'll be on his way. Certainly his lack of graduating won't be a problem (or is that a bad message for the *kid readers*?)

Maybe if enough students like Firenze, parents will get used to it and allow Hagrid to move up the Hogwarts ladder.

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wynnleaf - Dec 25, 2005 12:27 pm (#656 of 998)

From what JKR's website says, Lupin won't be back at Hogwarts. But perhaps one of the other current, but less developed professors is a Gryffindor. Still Hagrid is a likely choice.

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Lina - Dec 27, 2005 8:00 am (#657 of 998)

This is quite an interesting theory which will make waiting for the last book even harder...

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Ydnam96 - Dec 28, 2005 1:03 am (#658 of 998)

I think that Hagrid would make a great Head of House. Isn't Sprout a Head of House? I see them in the same light, academically speaking. I mean, Hagrid is allowed to do magic now and he should not be discriminated against because he isn't as adept at magic as others. I don't think that matters much in being a Head of House.

As far as the position as Headmaster/mistress...I think it was rather obvious at the end of 6 that McGonagall was the Head Mistress because the office let her in. Remember, it didn't let Umbridge in because she wasn't the "rightful" Headmistress. The office knows McGongagall even said she trusts Hagrid and values his opinion.

I'm voting for Hagrid. Plus, at the moment I think he's the only professor that is a Gryffindor unless Vector or Sinstra was. Trewlany strikes me as Ravenclaw.

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Honour - Dec 28, 2005 1:29 am (#659 of 998)

I hope Hagrid has some "Happy Ever After" with Madam Maxine, he truly deserves it.

Personally, I think Hagrid himself would prefer to stay as the Professor for Magical Creatures, he has such a love for them, and no one else could teach the children to "see" the beauty that he sees in these creatures. His replacement, Professor whats her name, escapes me, was a very nice tutor but she just didn't have Hagrid's total adoration when speaking about dragons, giant spiders, blast ended skrewts and the like. Of all the "messages" JKR has given us I found this one of the most poignant, that someone like Hagrid who has been judged as a monster, does not judge and only see's the beauty around him... I just think Hagrid needs maybe a teaching refresher course to fine tune his classes. Maybe Madam Maxine could help him?

...and I know he took pride in being the "Keeper of Keys" and Groundsman for the School, maybe he can train Grawp to be his assistant, having a giant around could be handy?

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dallas anderson - Jan 18, 2006 11:26 am (#660 of 998)

Try as I might... I've never connected with Hagrid.

From a literary standpoint, he helps to prove much of the sterotype that follows his people.

However trustworthy in his mentality... Hagrid is horrendously dangerous with information.

Additionally, I can't imagine parents entrusting their children to a headmaster who is so dangerous to children.

How many times has Hagrid put students in harms way?

His concept of cute and cuddly is anyone else's interpretation of deadly and lethal.

Hagrids a guy you want on your team.

But not leading the team.

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mike miller - Jan 18, 2006 5:10 pm (#661 of 998)

Dallas - I understand how you come to feel the way you do about Hagrid. Personally, I love Hagrid's character. Is he rough around the edges, yes. Does he have a distorted view of the creatures he cares for, yes. Was he disadvantged in his magical education, yes. Would he ever knowingly place a student in a real life threatening situation, no. Does he fully understand that what works for him will not work for others, no. I guess it's this last point that creates the risk with Hagrid, his perspection.

On the positive side: his loyalty is unwavering, his knowledge of his subject is both deep and practical, he cares deeply for Hogwarts and it's students and his willingness to serve is unequalled. He would do anything Dumbledore (and I suspect now Harry) would ask of him. I hope he is replaces Minerva in Gryffindor as she moves on to headmistress.

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Choices - Jan 18, 2006 6:10 pm (#662 of 998)

Here, here Mike Miller - well said!! I love Hagrid too. He has a heart of gold.

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J Hood - Jan 18, 2006 6:23 pm (#663 of 998)

I also don't see many situations where students are put at risk because of his actions. He was a little loose lipped (understatement I know) in book one, but other then that has not given up any real information, didn't even tell the trio what his task was at the end of GOF. He had a dragon, but wasn't planning on letting the students see it. The only really dangerous animal he had was the blast-ended skrewt, but even those were of no real danger to the students and when they became a little too difficult, they stopped caring for them.

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Choices - Jan 18, 2006 6:41 pm (#664 of 998)

I wonder about Hagrid's "loose-lips" - Is he just passing on information to Harry that Dumbledore wants Harry to find out? Information that Harry needs to know to carry out his "training exercises"?

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Choices - Jan 24, 2006 5:48 pm (#665 of 998)

From HBP - The White Tomb.... "Hagrid seemed to have placed the body carefully upon the table."

Hmmmm....SEEMED ??? Did he or didn't he??

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kingdolohov - Jan 24, 2006 7:08 pm (#666 of 998)

Right before that line Choices:

They could not see clearly what was happening at the front.

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haymoni - Jan 24, 2006 9:19 pm (#667 of 998)

Exactly.

I trust Hagrid with my life.

ANYTHING could have happened up there!!!

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me and my shadow 813 - Jan 28, 2006 2:00 pm (#668 of 998)

I envision Hagrid becoming a physical protection for Harry at some point in book 7. Perhaps Grawp as well... their spell-proof exterior would be quite handy. Also, Rubeus being a name so closely associated with the Philosopher's Stone which perpetuates life. I just imagine during a battle Hagrid taking Harry and enveloping him in a huge hug, like a "giant" shield - pun intended.

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dallas anderson - Feb 1, 2006 11:06 am (#669 of 998)

J Hood.

You don't think "spiders in the forrest" is dangerous? Giants? The hipogriff? Blast ended Skrewts etc etc etc.?

His judgement is abysmal.

We still don't understand his excursion into Diagon alley (although I think he was sent there by Dumbledore to look for specific items that would be Horcrux's).

Hagrid has put children at risk at every turn.

And as far as "trustworthyness" goes... his loose lippedness and relationships from everyone from the Giant mission to his worsening the relationships with the centeurs can be seen as failures.

I’m not picking on Hagrid, but to suggest he be a headmaster or be responsible for children or decision making? No chance.

Loyalty is great.

But being competent is important as well. Hagrid hasn't proven himself in that regard.

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Choices - Feb 1, 2006 12:23 pm (#670 of 998)

Dallas - "We still don't understand his excursion into Diagon alley"

At one point, Dumbledore tells Harry that he has been watched over and protected far greater than he could even imagine. I think Dumbledore knew through his sources that Harry was in trouble in Diagon Alley and had Hagrid go bail him out - the Slug Eating Repellant was just an excuse for Hagrid being there to save Harry.

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Snuffles - Feb 2, 2006 4:24 am (#671 of 998)

That's how I saw it too Choices.

At every turn there is someone watching over Harry, whether it be someone at the Weasley's or Hagrid or DD etc.

I don't think it was coincidence that Harry happened to bump into Hagrid just when he needed him.

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Soul Search - Feb 2, 2006 7:39 am (#672 of 998)

“Someone always watching over Harry.” Thought provoking. Dumbledore and Voldemort have both made the point that Harry was closely watched, and protected. I just don't think I had realized how close that might be. The Hagrid reference has sparked some more possible examples:

In SS, the owls knew how to find Harry and the letters were rather precisely addressed. Hagrid did know exactly where to go to find Harry on "a large rock way out to sea."

Did the Weasleys just happen to be at the train station when Harry needed to get through to platform 9 3/4?

Was everyone so upset in CoS because Harry arrived in a flying car, or because their watching had failed and they didn't know where he had gone?

Did the Knight Bus just happen to respond to Harry's raised wand, or was it sent? Fudge did say "If the Knight Bus hadn't picked him up ... ." Why was Lupin on the train, ready to dispatch any dementors? He could also have recognized Sirius.

In GoF, did Hermione just happen to find all those useful spells for Harry or was she coached?

The watching, obviously, failed again in OotP. But Harry had been watched. Ron mentioned that the Order was always on "guard" duty. The Order must be hard up to have to use someone as unreliable as Mundungus.

Any obvious close watching in HBP?

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haymoni - Feb 2, 2006 9:51 am (#673 of 998)

I'm guessing that the Order was actually watching the prophecy so they had to call in the reserves to watch Harry.

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Soul Search - Feb 2, 2006 2:16 pm (#674 of 998)

In HBP Tonks was at the Weasleys when Harry and Dumbledore arrived and the ministry was watching the Burrow (Harry wasn't supposed to leave) and was checking the owl posts.

The order was guarding Hogwarts, but maybe with a special emphasis on Harry. He did meet Tonks, more than once. Did she have a map to locate Harry?

Wasn't Tonks in Hogsmeade when Harry encountered Mundungus?

Hagrid was nearby when Katie touched the neckace.

Quiditch matches must have worried the heck out of the watchers.

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Esther Rose - Feb 3, 2006 6:35 am (#675 of 998)

Well, this is just a very minor thought. I would think that if the family tree in the house of Blacks is correct and Tonks knew she and Harry were related even at the smallest level. I would think that she would want to protect or at least think that it was her natural duty to protect Harry.

I would imagine Bill volunteered to help guard Hogwarts as well just to protect his own brother and sister.

Hagrid probably feels like he can relate to Harry. Both lost their parents at a young age.

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J Hood - Feb 9, 2006 6:07 pm (#676 of 998)

In response to Dallas.

Normal students haven't been put at risk by Hagrid other than the Skrewts which I mentioned in my post. The Spiders are in the middle of the forest, Grawp was in the middle of the forest, the forest is off limits to the students. Therefore the students aren't at risk. The hippogriff is not very dangerous if you follow simple instructions. Malfoy got hurt because he is an arrogant fool. Most dogs aren't that dagerous, but if you tease it, it too will bite you.

Hagrid has a warped sense about him, but not enough to really make him a danger.

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mike miller - Feb 10, 2006 9:10 am (#677 of 998)

Well said JHood! I think Hagrid would make a fine Head of Gryffindor House!

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frogface - Feb 10, 2006 11:01 am (#678 of 998)

I would love to see Hagrid made head of Gryffindor house, but for it to realistically happen, he'd have to learn to apply his authority a little bit more. For instance in his CoMC class, Malfoy managed to intimidate him a little a throw him off track. I can't see McGonagall or any of the other heads of houses letting Malfoy get away with that for a second. I think it would be a well deserved reward for him, but just as when he became a teacher, it would take him a while to get settled into the role.

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bigearl - Feb 27, 2006 1:54 pm (#679 of 998)

In GOF, Hagrid says his father died when he was a 2nd year at Hogwarts.

That would have been one year before Tom Riddle opened The Chamber of Secrets, but him reinventing himself as Lord Voldemort could have easily come one year before opening The COS.

I wonder if young Tom Riddle had anything to do with the death of Hagrid's father ?

Also, Hagrid was taken under Dumbledore's wing, I wonder if Hagrid's father died fighting Grindelwald with DD, and DD was repaying a dept to Hagrid's father.

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rettoP yrraH - May 17, 2006 9:54 pm (#680 of 998)
posted after this thread was changed to “inactive” status:

Hagrid has fallen out of grace in the HPL's forum?

Hagrid was one of the first charactors we met along with Professer McG. I have a hunch that the book will end with them both following the style of JKR.

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Kip Carter - May 18, 2006 12:26 am (#681 of 998)

Sam, Hagrid has not fallen out of grace, only has not gained a post within the last thirty days. That is the reason his thread is in the group section folder. Your post has returned Hagrid to the active group.

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rettoP yrraH - May 18, 2006 7:13 pm (#682 of 998)

Great!

Any one know if Hagrid is fully stun proof or just a high level of tolerence. And is it only with stunners?

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Choices - May 19, 2006 9:14 am (#683 of 998)

I think he isn't necessarily stun-proof, but he's probably like the dragons - it takes several stunners administered at once to bring him down. He definitely has a high level of tolerence.

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Soul Mate for Sirius - May 19, 2006 9:21 am (#684 of 998)

I agree with Choices. I also think that this probably only holds true with minor, or common jinxes and curses like Stunners, since he's only 1/2 giant. For example, and Unforgivable would most likely work right away and with just one curse. Also, probably curses like Sectumsempra, or that nasty curse one of the DE's used against Hermione in the MOM at the end of OotP. Just a thought...

-Jenn

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rettoP yrraH - May 20, 2006 9:20 pm (#685 of 998)

So mind spells might not work on him eh?

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Soul Mate for Sirius - May 21, 2006 10:37 am (#686 of 998)

That's a good question...But then again, I don't think anyone would really need to use them on Hagrid. We've been shown many times throughout the series, starting all the way back in PS that it is pretty easy to get Hagrid to talk...

-Jenn

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rettoP yrraH - May 21, 2006 7:55 pm (#687 of 998)

To people that he trusts...sorta. I don't think for a second he would talk to someone that he knows is an enemy.

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Soul Mate for Sirius - May 22, 2006 5:28 am (#688 of 998)

No, I agree with you rettoP yrraH, but I also think that Hagrid is easily fooled. I mean, look how easy it was for Quirrell to trick him into talking in PS, just by buying him mead. While I don't think he'd ever talk to a known DE, I also think the DE's could easily fool him into talking as long as they were clever.

-Jenn

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rambkowalczyk - May 22, 2006 9:02 am (#689 of 998)

So mind spells might not work on him eh? rottoP yrraH

Even though Hagrid is half giant, dementors appear to affect him as much as they would anyone else.

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rettoP yrraH - May 22, 2006 7:16 pm (#690 of 998)

All he said is they give him the woolys.

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journeymom - May 22, 2006 8:54 pm (#691 of 998)

And woolys are...(besides baby nappies)...? I'm sorry. I've had a couple glasses of tasty zin and am feeling a bit...punchy. Anyway, I'm guessing wooly means sad or melancholy?

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frogface - May 23, 2006 1:09 am (#692 of 998)

When he talks about his time in Azkaban he says that all he could remember were the terrible things in his life. He said that he hoped he would die in his sleep. So the Dementor's definitely affect him as much as anyone else.

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rettoP yrraH - May 23, 2006 6:54 pm (#693 of 998)
Edited May 23, 2006 7:54 pm

Got me there frogface.

Brings us to the next question. Can dementors suck the soul out of a Giant, Wherewolf, or any huminoid? If they can't does that mean if Hagrid’s soul is sucked out it's only half? like a Horcrux?

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Laura W - May 24, 2006 12:10 am (#694 of 998)
Edited May 24, 2006 1:11 am

I don't know if this answers your interesting question but ... PoA, Chapter nineteen, Snape has captured Sirius and Remus - or so he thinks - in the Shrieking Shack. Snape talking: " 'Come on, all of you,' he said. He clicked his fingers, and the ends of the cords that bound Lupin flew to his hands. 'I'll drag the werewolf. Perhaps the Dementors will have a kiss for him, too -' "

Laura

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Honour - Aug 11, 2006 4:27 am (#695 of 998)

New thought, well maybe an old thought with a new voice asking it, but, has anyone figured out how Dumbledore knew to send Hagrid to rescue Harry from the ruins? I read JKR's explanation about being Secret Keeper and it's charm, and since Peter was the secret keeper how did Dumbledore know to send Hagrid when Dumbledore himself thought Sirius was the Secret Keeper ?...

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Solitaire - Aug 11, 2006 7:50 am (#696 of 998)

how did Dumbledore know to send Hagrid when Dumbledore himself thought Sirius was the Secret Keeper ?...

Perhaps once the people who are being concealed are killed, the charm disappears. I realize Harry was still alive, but is it possible that his youth kept him from "registering," rather like Harry's age kept him from being detected in the cave with Dumbledore? Just a thought ...

Solitaire

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Choices - Aug 11, 2006 11:03 am (#697 of 998)
Edited Aug 11, 2006 12:04 pm

Honour, I'm sure there are many ideas floating around as to how Dumbledore found out so quickly and was able to send Hagrid to get Harry - one idea is that there was a portrait in the Potter's house that connected to a portrait in Dumbledore's office, the occupant saw what happened and immediately rushed to his/her portrait at Hogwarts to alert Dumbledore.

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darien - Aug 11, 2006 11:23 am (#698 of 998)
Edited Aug 11, 2006 12:23 pm

I am thinking that the charm was put on the house, not on the people,(people enter and leave 12GP etc...) and I remeber understanding that the house was somehow damaged and therefore the charm was overthrown and people could see the place.

Also maybe Dumbledore already knew the house would be at Godrics place, but as he hadn't heard it from the Secret Keeper he would "look into their living room window but not see them" as recall Fudge said. So when the charms disappeared he knew where to look

Or thirdly Pettigrew wrote notes and gave them to Dumbledore and other trustable Order Members and Sirius distributed them so they would think he wrote them (and would say it was to avoid overhearing) remember Lupin gave Harry the Dumbledore written note and Harry could see 12GP

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Honour - Aug 12, 2006 6:31 am (#699 of 998)

I don't know, I'm sorry Soli I don't understand? Do you mean that for example, if it were James who cast the charm, at his death the charm ended and the house/ruins was able to be seen? I wonder if, following your line of thought about Harry being too young to read on the magical register, how Dumbledore knew where/why to send Hagrid?

Choices, that's a very interesting theory if somewhat dangerous don't you think? Why Dumbledore seems to have quite an open door policy in his office, we even see/read about him speaking with Voldermort there.

darien, I cannot see the logic of Peter writing notes to "trustable Order Members etc." including Dumbledore, wouldn't this guarantee a show down of sorts between Voldermort and his DE's with Dumbledore and the Order? And if this scenario were correct Lily and James would most probably be still alive. As it panned out Peter set up Sirius by killing a bunch of muggles and staging his own death infront of witnesses ...

Do you think Dumbledore finding out had something to do with Sirius maybe sending a message to Hogwarts, no that wouldn't work either because Sirius would have explained to Dumbledore about the switch, and as it was, Dumbledore actually thought Sirius was guilty... Maybe there is a squib in residence like Mrs Fig and they sent a message to Dumbledore? Remus' absence was suspicious too - was it a full moon?

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Choices - Aug 12, 2006 9:43 am (#700 of 998)

Honour - "Choices, that's a very interesting theory if somewhat dangerous don't you think? Why Dumbledore seems to have quite an open door policy in his office, we even see/read about him speaking with Voldermort there."

I don't know why it would be dangerous. The old headmasters and headmistresses are sworn to serve and do the bidding of the present headmaster. One of them could be a relative of James Potter (or not) and have a portrait in their home. Or it could have been placed there recently to observe and help protect the Potters - reporting anything strange or out of the ordinary to Dumbledore - much like the portrait of Phineas Nigellus watched Harry while he was at 12 Grimmauld Place.