Xenophilius Lovegood (Luna's father)

Xenophilius Lovegood (Luna's father)

This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. Elanor

Kip Carter - Jul 21, 2007 6:17 am
co-Host with Steve on the Lexicon Forum, but he has the final say as the Owner!
Edited Sep 25, 2007 2:12 pm
This thread is to discuss Xenophilius Lovegood (Luna's father). It was suggested by Muggle Doctor.

Ollivander's Apprentice - Jul 21, 2007 6:18 am (#1 of 45)
As others have pointed out, Xenophilius means love of the alien. Very appropriate.

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sstabeler - Jul 21, 2007 7:16 am (#2 of 45)
anyone else irritated that he would betray the person his daughter looked up t to get his daughter back? I don't think Luna would have stayed long if she found out. and the Etrumpet horn...... how stupid of him.

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Ms Amanda - Jul 21, 2007 4:12 pm (#3 of 45)
I think Xenophilius was blinded by fear of losing his daughter; they appear to be quite close. I think it is awful that he turned in the trio but I can see where he's coming from, as well. He always feared the Ministry anyway, didn't he? He published stories about the awful things he believed he had there and about the awful things he believed about the Ministers. Then to figure out that there truly was a malevolent force behind the Ministry now, one that would actually take action against him through his daughter, must have made him nearly insane with grief. He was inexpert at behaving this way, you might have noticed. He seems to be much more at home stating the fantastical stories that he believes are truth than at keeping secrets and deceiving the trio.

As for the horn, I am going to extrapolate from that little scene that he is very prideful. He truly believes what he is printing is truth, and he is blind to practical, mundane explanations of his "evidence." However, his fantasties turn out to be of some use, as his spouting off things leads Harry to learn about the Hallows and to at least have heard of Ravenclaw's diadem. I just don't think that Xenophilius much cared about anyone else believing him or even caring about him. He wanted the devotion of his daughter, and her respect, but when has he ever taken into account anyone else's point of view? I think him turning in the trio is just more evidence that he is accustomed to looking at everything his way, unquestioningly.

I do believe, sstbeler, that Luna would have reacted badly to this decision of her father. I wonder if she would have stood up to her father about the horn. She is a Ravenclaw; surely she would have recognized it?

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Finn BV - Jul 21, 2007 6:18 pm (#4 of 45)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I figured out later the addition of "xeno" and "philia", but when I first read his name I was drawn to "Filius", as in Flitwick's first name, Flitwick, the head of Ravenclaw. An interesting transition from Latin to Greek, I suppose?

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sstabeler - Jul 22, 2007 3:50 am (#5 of 45)
As a side note, Mrs Amanda, it's sstabeler, not sstbeler. I get things like that all the time with this username. it's not a problem though. its just in case someone registers a username similar to mine, so that I wouldn't be confused with them.

As for the actual name, why was I reminded of Xenophobe?

Also, Luna believed it was a crumple-horned Snarc-whatever horn, this I distinctly think it would have blown up in Luna's face, causing another death. Thank god it blew up without killing anyone.

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Anna L. Black - Jul 22, 2007 5:15 am (#6 of 45)
Well, Xenophilius is exactly the opposite of Xenophobe, loves strangers/others/different people rather than being afraid of them or hating them.

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Mare - Jul 22, 2007 5:45 am (#7 of 45)
I keep wondering how he got the horn, did some-one think it would be easy money to sell him the horn, or was it an attempt to shut the Quibbler up? (It's harder to print stories when you have exploded)

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Mattew Bates - Jul 22, 2007 10:05 am (#8 of 45)
“Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahlil Gibran
I'm going to go with the latter, Mare. He was ruffling a lot of feathers, so someone sold him the horn in the hopes it would blow up him or his presses. That didn't work fast enough, so they kidnapped Luna to blackmail him.

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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 23, 2007 10:44 am (#9 of 45)
When Harry found Luna's room full of dust, the first thing I thought was that she had been killed and her dad was so grief stricken he couldn't accept it and was imagining her down by the stream fishing for plimpies.

Glad I was WAY wrong about that. I was so stupid.

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Madam Pince - Jul 23, 2007 10:54 am (#10 of 45)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Don't feel bad. I thought that, too!

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Ms Amanda - Jul 23, 2007 2:36 pm (#11 of 45)
My first thoughts, too, were of a grief-stricken father in denial. I was really thinking that it was really sad and would have been an explanation for telling his daughter all those wild stories; he just couldn't deal with the truth.

I was totally shocked when I realized that he had turned in the trio.

And sorry about the misspelled name, sstabeler, I missed a letter when I was typing, apparently. No offense intended.

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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 23, 2007 10:16 pm (#12 of 45)
Me too! Hey,maybe Xeno got the horn from Dung!

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zelmia - Jul 23, 2007 10:27 pm (#13 of 45)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
I think the point of Xeno turning in the Trio was to show that everyone has his/her weakness. Xeno says himself that Luna was all he had left in the world and he was only trying to ensure her release. He seemed to really be between a rock and a hard place that of following his own creedo and his family.
In that respect he's no different than Narcissa (and later Lucius), who also came to abandon the Party line to try to ensure the safety of their own child.

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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 24, 2007 6:09 am (#14 of 45)
I agree,Zelmia.He had already lost his wife.Luna was the only one he had left,so it didn't surprise me that he tried to turn the trio in.

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Ms Amanda - Jul 24, 2007 11:25 am (#15 of 45)
It was good for the trio to see how tormenting it was for others. They automatically hate Pettigrew for turning in Harry's family. Harry seems to have second thoughts about hating Xenophilius. He'd done basically the same thing, though.

The only slight difference is that he was turning in his daughter's friends, instead of his own.

It was good for the trio to experience how people could be made to do the bidding of the Ministry, and thus of Voldemort, through torture and through threatening family. Helping them understand how the other side worked and how people could turn on everything they knew just to save someone.

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haymoni - Aug 3, 2007 4:47 pm (#16 of 45)
I felt for Mr. Lovegood - I briefly thought we were going to have another death scene similar to Movie Mr. Diggory.

(Hubby still won't watch GOF again - I think he identifies with Movie Mr. Diggory too much.)

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Oruma - Aug 8, 2007 12:30 am (#17 of 45)
There's another difference between Xeno's betrayal of the trio, and Wormtail's betrayal of the Potters, though: Xeno sold them out for the sake of his daughter, while Wormtail did it for fear of his own life, and for securing his position with LV. That's a big difference, IMHO.

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Chemyst - Aug 25, 2007 10:26 am (#18 of 45)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
'Caractacus Potts' was the father who tried to make his whacky inventions work so that he could provide a decent home for his two children in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. I never read the book, (just saw the movie,) but for those of you you have, are there any other similarities?

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Luna Logic - Aug 25, 2007 10:59 am (#19 of 45)
from the other side (of the Channel)
Edited by Aug 25, 2007 12:09 pm
I have seen some discussion about this book, soon after I came to the Forum (January? February?) concerning HBP and the Cave. Was it in the thread A Treasure Hunt: Looking for Literary Symbolism in HBP? (Or in Reading along HBP?) If I find it I will edit this post.

edited: Yes, February, on A Treasure Hunt: Looking for Literary Symbolism in HBP
Phoenix - #1434
Phoenix gave the summary of the book, and we discussed some points (for me, the cave and the nature of magic).

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Solitaire - Sep 1, 2007 6:53 pm (#20 of 45)
Xeno sold them out for the sake of his daughter, while Wormtail did it for fear of his own life, and for securing his position with LV

I tend to agree, Oruma. I see the two situations very differently. Even the kids are able to make the distinction ... although I think they are more compassionate now than they might have been in the same situation, had it occurred when they were younger. They have seen how good people can be used and manipulated.

Solitaire

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PeskyPixie - Sep 23, 2007 6:32 pm (#21 of 45)
If Xeno could have saved Luna by sacrificing his own life he would have done it in an instant. However, his death was of no value to the Death Eaters. Harry had a price on his head and Xeno felt that it was the only way to buy Luna's freedom. Not many parents would be able to sacrifice their only child, or any child, for the greater good.

I suppose one might argue that he could have hatched some sort of rescue plan with the trio rather than snitch on them?

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zelmia - Sep 23, 2007 8:21 pm (#22 of 45)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
Since they didn't even know where Luna had been taken, that would have been incredibly difficult. But as it was, the Trio assumed that Luna had been given a cell in Azkaban and acknowledged that, regrettably, there simply wasn't anything they could really do to save her.

And Xeno had tried to negotiate Luna's release before the Trio's arrival. But he probably considered himself a lucky man indeed when Harry Potter himself came knocking at the front door because he wasted no time in using it to his advantage.
Yes, he was in an incredibly difficult position and had to choose between his own daughter, or the greater good.

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Die Zimtzicke - Sep 24, 2007 6:23 am (#23 of 45)
I didn't think the greater good was exactly the choice here. Was he supposed to sacrfice his child for the good of the wizarding world, which has not treated Xeno all tht well, considering how often his crackpot image is reinforced? And what was his personal stake in Harry's quest, anyway? He was not only making a difficult choice, he was making one without having all the information he needed to choose a course of action.

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Joanna Lupin - Sep 24, 2007 7:28 am (#24 of 45)
I think the fact that Xeno wanted to sell out Luna's friends to their deaths is much more important than some vague greater good. He jeopardized Luna's beliefs and hopes and I don't think Luna would thank him for that. Of course, it's easy to reproach Xeno when my family is safe and I've got no idea how I'd react had it been me.

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PeskyPixie - Sep 24, 2007 7:46 am (#25 of 45)
I personally don't know of any parents who would respect their child's beliefs and hopes if disregarding them for one occasion could potentially save their child.

I think Xeno would prefer to have Luna safe at home but angry at him than respect her ideals, keeping her in danger and perhaps even sacrificing her for the greater good.

Harry's arrival would be very tempting for any parent in Xeno's shoes.

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zelmia - Sep 24, 2007 11:57 am (#26 of 45)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
Was he supposed to sacrfice his child for the good of the wizarding world, which has not treated Xeno all tht well, considering how often his crackpot image is reinforced? And what was his personal stake in Harry's quest, anyway?

You make a good point, Die. But obviously Xeno himself believed in "the greater good" enough to openly defy the new Death Eater regime by continuing to publish his, now-subversive, magazine overtly supporting Harry. And this was not the first time he had done so, which Dolores Umbridge probably made sure to point out to the new Minister for Magic.

Xeno's story is kind of the opposite of the Malfoy's. Whereas the Malfoys love each other and their son enough to betray Voldemort if it will ensure Draco's protection, Xeno loves his daughter Luna enough to capitulate with Voldemort to ensure hers.

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Luna Logic - Sep 24, 2007 11:45 pm (#27 of 45)
from the other side (of the Channel)
I agree with Joanna : giving Harry, Ron and Hermione to the DE is just sacrificing three real people to save one. No Greater Good here, no mission and no ideal : just three real lives, and three real deaths to come.

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PeskyPixie - Sep 25, 2007 5:40 am (#28 of 45)
The point was whether sacrificing Luna for the greater good (ie:shielding Harry Potter) would've been a realistic expectation of Xeno or any parent in his desperate situation.

Note that in the initial post I made, the sacrifice for the greater good involved Xeno shielding the trio and not involving them in his bids to save his only daughter.

Perhaps I was a bit vague back there, hope this makes it more clear.

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Die Zimtzicke - Sep 25, 2007 7:02 am (#29 of 45)
Well, Xeno had probably heard many times how Harry was able to get away from the death eaters and Voldemort. He did it so often the death eaters were starting to look like total idiots. Xeno might have had some hope that Harry, with all her personal experince in such situations, would be able to get out of the situation again.

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Joanna Lupin - Sep 25, 2007 7:48 am (#30 of 45)
And that's exactly what happened, isn't it? So Xeno had a point.

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Die Zimtzicke - Sep 26, 2007 8:18 am (#31 of 45)
Too bad we do not know what happened to Xeno. They could have killed him, in spite of Hermione's attempts to get him off the hook. He is certainly not mentioned as doing anything ever again, and Luna was not in the epilogue.

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Joanna Lupin - Sep 26, 2007 9:12 am (#32 of 45)
He was sent to Azkaban, they said on Potterwatch.

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Die Zimtzicke - Sep 28, 2007 5:58 am (#33 of 45)
Would have been nice if that had been in the books. Not everyone, believe it or not, listens to Potterwatch. LOL!

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Choices - Sep 28, 2007 8:20 am (#34 of 45)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
"'Well, as most of the regular listeners will know, several of the more outspoken supporters of Harry Potter have now been imprisoned, including Xenophilius Lovegood, erstwhile editor of The Quibbler,' said Lupin."

DH, chapter 22 - The Deathly Hallows - p. 442

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Joanna Lupin - Sep 28, 2007 10:54 am (#35 of 45)
Guess you need a re-read, Die!

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PeskyPixie - Sep 28, 2007 10:55 am (#36 of 45)
I found Die's comment really cute!

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Die Zimtzicke - Sep 29, 2007 8:46 pm (#37 of 45)
It does not say he went to Azkaban anywhere. We can assume he did, because he was not at Malfoy Manor, and we don't know anyplace else prisoners were held, but it doesn't say Azkaban. If it was Azkaban, I don't know why no one ever mentioned it again, especially Luna. I would think she would be worried about her father being in Azkaban.

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Mrs. Sirius - Sep 29, 2007 9:30 pm (#38 of 45)
Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Xeno's story is kind of the opposite of the Malfoy's. Whereas the Malfoys love each other and their son enough to betray Voldemort if it will ensure Draco's protection, Xeno loves his daughter Luna enough to capitulate with Voldemort to ensure hers.

Don't you just love how JKR constantly juxtapositions? Xeno>Luna; Malfoys>Draco; Petunia>Dudley; Potters>Harry Molly>Ginny and of course Severus>Lily. What do you do for your greater love.

Having once been in a war situation where I didn't know the location and safety of a family member, I do not fault Xeno for trying to save his child. Especially an only child. Xeno obviously was not doing this willingly. Initially he didn't want HRH even to come in, he didn't run right out to send his message. He did struggle.

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PeskyPixie - Sep 30, 2007 10:18 am (#39 of 45)
With the exception of Bellatrix (i.e. her hope of sacrificing her hypothetical sons for Voldemort), nobody is able to sacrifice their child. The praise of Narcissa's fierce determination to save the life of her child should also be applied to Xeno Lovegood. He goes against his deepest beliefs (the moral struggle is excruciatingly difficult for one on the side of 'good') to protect his only child. He should be pitied for having the misfortune to have such a dilemma thrust upon him.

Yes, Mrs. Sirius, I love JKR's juxtapositions.

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Chemyst - Sep 30, 2007 12:22 pm (#40 of 45)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
By Jove, you are right, Die. It never specifically says "Azkaban," only that Xeno was "imprisoned." Well, let's hope it was Azkaban because then DH36, page 745, A Flaw in the Plan, says that 'the innocent of Azkaban were being released at that very moment, and that Kingsley Shacklebolt had been named temporary Minister of Magic. . . '

I don't know why JKR wouldn't have had Luna say something, but she was missing from the epilogue and she does not have a birthday on the website either. Anyone want to mosey over to Luna's thread and ask what's up with that?

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PeskyPixie - Aug 1, 2008 9:04 pm (#41 of 45)
"Xeno, however, has been one of Harry's most ardent supporters, even voluntarily publishing that support in his paper. What Xeno does, therefore, is betrayal. Treachery. Yes, we understand why he does it, but is he any less a traitor than Pettigrew in his choice of actions?" -Quinn Crockett (on the Lucius Malfoy thread)

I think Peter and Xeno are different because Xeno betrays Harry (it seems rather unwillingly, but he does it) to preserve his only child's life. Peter's betrayal is committed in the effort to preserve his own life. Granted, it's not exactly easy to serve yourself up to a Dark Lord on a silver platter, but it's even harder to sacrifice your child (especially when that child is already imprisoned by Death Eaters).

By the way, I'm sure Peter could have found a way to go into hiding with the Potters after becoming their secret keeper, informing them that Voldy is targeting him for becoming a spy and there's no way he's going out of the Potters' Fideliused house until Voldy's gone. If anyone could have pulled that off, Peter could have. I think Peter had ulterior motives for snitching on his friends. After being the underdog Marauder he may have been tempted by Voldy's offer of power and respect if he snitched on his friends and handed the Dark Lord the Chosen One.

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mona amon - Aug 2, 2008 4:56 am (#42 of 45)
Xeno had a very limited choice, he had to betray Harry, or allow Luna to continue in Death Eater custody. He chose his own kid. Not a great thing to do, and the trio are justifiably indignant with him, but we can sympathise with his lack of options.

Peter on the other hand was never threatened or blackmailed. He voluntarily betrayed the Potters in order to ally himself with 'the biggest bully in the playground'.

I think Peter had ulterior motives for snitching on his friends. After being the underdog Marauder he may have been tempted by Voldy's offer of power and respect if he snitched on his friends and handed the Dark Lord the Chosen One. (Pesky)

This is what I feel as well, but did Voldemort make him an offer, or was Peter the one who went to Voldemort?

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Mrs. Sirius - Aug 2, 2008 7:45 am (#43 of 45)
Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
They were all always in danger from LV at that point in time. If Peter went to LV it would make him more culpable, but ultimately it doesn't make a difference. He would have died once LV asked or knew Wormtail had the info. Sirius said "then you should have died, as we would have died for you".

In the Shierking Shack, Peter making excuses, he tells Sirius -you don't know how scary he can be- perhaps I am looking to make excuses, but it seems that Peter would have been to scared to have even approached LV, LV may well have sought him out.

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Quinn Crockett - Aug 2, 2008 9:54 am (#44 of 45)
"Yes! I'm impugning a continent!"
I agree completely about Peter. I was actually putting forth a genuine query to see what people thought. Personally, I think it comes down to whether or not we believe that such actions of betrayal should (of course we know they can) ever be justified.

For example, what if Harry had been caught at that time, at the Lovegoods, instead of later? What if Ron and/or Hermione had been killed ("Kill the spare!")? Would we find Xeno nearly as sympathetic in his choices?

We see Pettigrew as merely a loathsome traitor because we don't agree with his reasons for doing so (which are, let's face it, lame) - and perhaps also because he allowed someone else to take the blame. Xeno, however, has what we would mostly deem a "legitimate" reason to want to try to exchange Harry for Luna; and we interpret Xeno's decision as a reluctant one.
But was Pettigrew any less reluctant to hand over the only real friends he probably ever had? If Lily's description of him in her letter to Sirius is any indication, it seems "Wormy" might have been at least somewhat remorseful about what he'd done.

Xeno did betray Harry. When you look at actions alone, and leave out whether or not we agree with the why's.

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mona amon - Aug 3, 2008 7:10 pm (#45 of 45)
Good post, Quinn. I can only conclude that it's easy to judge someone who makes a bad choice instead of a good one, but very difficult to judge someone who has to choose only between difficult choices.

As for betrayal, it will be interesting to watch out for this major theme in the books while we do the read-along. I'd like to quote Mrs. Brisbee from the 'What Shall We Watch Out For?' thread-

Betrayal and Loyalty. The books are full of betrayers: Dobby, Kreacher, Snape, Firenze, Narcissa, Peter Pettigrew, Marietta. Just what is it to be a betrayer? The book is full of the loyal: McGonagall, Neville, Bellatrix, Sirius, Barty Crouch, Jr. But what does it mean?