Key things from book two? (Condensed Thread)

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Key things from book two? (Condensed Thread)

Post  Elanor on Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:25 am

Key things from book two? (Condensed Thread)

This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. Elanor

Mare - Nov 17, 2004 7:45 am
Edited by Kip Carter Jan 12, 2006 11:47 pm
Key things from book two?

This thread had as goal to find all the clues in the second book that could give us information about books five, six and seven.

I moved it up my editing list, seeing as how the Half blood Prince made it interesting once again.

The thread itself is very edited, I took out as much chatter as I could. Also, you will see that in the thread certain people took an indept look at specific chapters : This was Ron's Chess Partner idea. I edited out all the conversation about who would read what chapter, but left, off course, the actual evalution of the chapters.

Than there is this question by NCThomas; « Since the dementors aren't even mentioned by name until book 3, I don't know why they're in this topic. »

There is quite a lot of conversation about the dementors in thye beginning, but allthough the theories might not directly fit the description « key thing from book 2 », the discussion about Ginny does.
And other than that, some of the theories are simply to good to delete.

Enjoy this thread, and I hope it can spark some new thoughts in current discussions.

Marè
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Key things from book two? (Condensed Thread) - Part 1

Post  Elanor on Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:31 am

kheshire - Nov 13, 2002

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] posted a link today to a site with clips of an interview with JKR. It's great, and you should all go listen to it, but I'm particularly intrigued by this quote:

They quote JKR as saying, "Key things happen in book two. No one knows how important those things are... yet. There's a lot in there. And I know how difficult it was to get it all in there without drawing too much attention to the clues."

Any body want to venture a guess (or two, or twelve) what this might refer to?

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Professer Boggart Snape - Nov 13, 2002

I think that Moaning Myrtle will be a main character in the rest of the stories.

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yolanda collins - Nov 14, 2002

I think perhaps one of the two things that happen may be the sword, which Harry as being a "true Gryffindore" would be able to extract. Then again there are so many things that happen that choosing two out of one hundred is a challenge.

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Wendelin the Weird - Nov 14, 2002

I think Harry wrestling with the fact (CoS) that the sorting hat wanted to place him in Slytherin is definitely important, and the fact that he has some part of Voldemort's power in him (i.e. Parseltongue). Maybe that quote from Flitwick about Dumbledore being able to do dark magic and choosing not to (PoA) relates to this too! I mean, the Dark wizard Grindelwald was defeated by Dumbledore, so maybe he gained some of his power the same way as Harry. Then Voldemort trains from Grindelwald in the forest after he leaves Hogwarts, and is afraid of Dumbledores power because he defeated Grindelwald. In the same way Harry defeats Voldemort, and gets some of his power... Maybe its all related.

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Slytherin Prefect - Nov 14, 2002

Well, if I haven't run into them by now, having read the book almost fifty times, I'm not going to spot them.

I think most of it has to do with Ginny Weasley. JKR said she's going to have a bigger part in book 5. I think this has a lot to do with the fact that not unlike Harry, she's got a part of Voldemort in her. Now, while some may say that was only for book two, I point you to book three, the train ride to Hogwarts. The only one who is affected by the dementors nearly as badly as Harry was Ginny. There is no other reason for an otherwise VERY sheltered little girl to be affected so badly by the dementors. That piece of Voldemort is there to stay.

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Wendelin the Weird - Nov 14, 2002

Is that a piece of Voldemort that was affected by the dementors or just because she had such terrifying experiences caused by the encounter with Voldemort? I was under the impression that a horrifying experience caused it and because of the level of fear and emotional anguish produced, but you may be right.

So, SP, are you saying that even though the Tom Riddle from the journal was destroyed he left part of himself with Ginny after the journal was destroyed?

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Slytherin Prefect - Nov 14, 2002

I said as much on another thread, yes. Riddle says in book 2 that he poured a bit of his soul into her. He would have to, because Ginny would have to be a Parselmouth to be able to control the basilisk.

Now, this hasn't shown back up in 3 or 4, but then again, Ginny had only bit parts in those two books.

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Wendelin the Weird - Nov 14, 2002

That is a good point, just haven't really thought much about it. So, I would imagine the dementors have been given permission to give Voldemort "the kiss"... which would explain why they had been attracted to the train car with Harry and Ginny, and why they almost administered the kiss on Harry later in PoA, also. ???

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Slytherin Prefect - Nov 14, 2002 1

Now that you bring THAT up, wow... That WOULD explain the dementors trying to administer the kiss if they could sense Voldemort's presence in them.

It would also explain why the dementor hung around on the train after Lupin telling it to leave, until Lupin finally expecto patronumed it...

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Cathy Picone - Nov 14, 2002

Maybe the dementors tried to administer the kiss because they still are in league with Vold and want to get rid of Harry. Also, in GoF, the dementors gave the kiss to Barty Crouch before he could be interrogated. I bet it was to shut him up before he told who else was in league with Vold. And who gave that order?...Cornelius Fudge!

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Wendelin the Weird - Nov 14, 2002

And on the same note about the dementors attempting to give Harry the kiss because he sensed Voldemort, it could also explain how the dementor went straight to Barty Crouch, Jr., and gave him the kiss in GoF. The dementor didn't have permission yet to administer the kiss to him, but what if he had some of Voldemorts power in him too... ?

Imagine that Crouch's weakness (lack of love from father) is same as Tom Riddles. Is it possible that Voldemort transferred to him some of his power at some point? Was he acting under the imperious curse at first (torturing the Longbottoms) and then when found by Voldemort, influenced by him in some way? Crouch would be too weak to fight off the evil influence because he didn't have the selfless love like Harry's mother gave to protect him from it. Crouch's father may not have been around enough to protect him.

I'm really stretching this now, but, maybe? okay, maybe I'm losing it... lol

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Ron's Chess Partner - Nov 14, 2002

I like the idea that Riddle left a bit of himself in Ginny; that definitely could be important in later books. Also, the dementor theories seem valid.

One hint, if you're looking for hidden clues; if they're meant to be hidden, they'll be in the points where you're paying the least attention -- this goes not just in terms of where in the story, but where in the structure of paragraphs and sentences. Mainly, they'll be in the middle of sentences or paragraphs, particularly sentences that begin interestingly and end with a punch. Like they say, the best place to hide something is sometimes in plain sight!

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FW - Nov 14, 2002

I find the quote "Voldemort is my past, present and future" verrrry interesting, any thoughts on what this could mean?

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Carina - Nov 14, 2002

Could it be a clue to the whole ancestor/descendent question?

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Keith Detloff - Nov 14, 2002

the masonic lodge is associated with magic & secrecy. Reading up on the rosicrucians gives an idea of where the masons started & why the catholic church persecuted them. I don't think it was coincidence that THE Masons came to Privet (private) Drive on Harry's birthday.

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Choco* - Nov 14, 2002

FW - do you think the "past, present, and future" thing could tie in with the ancestor/descendant controversy? I'm not sure I'm up on the info, but I've heard that the edited ancestor "mistake" was later changed back to its original form after JK balked at the "correction." There is a strong "fate" motif running through the books: Trelawney's predictions may function like those of the Delphic Oracle (in the Oedipus story, etc.), actually causing the fate to happen by their mention. Food for thought.

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Jimmy Bell - Nov 14, 2002

I read the "Dementor Theory" backwards. We know the Dementors are unscrupulous as to who their masters are. What really matters is their own self interest. "As long as they've got a couple of hundred humans that they can suck the happiness out of, they don't give a damn who's guilty and who's not." "All the school out on the Quidditch Field, emotions running high, it was their idea of a feast." Apparently Dementors derive some deranged pleasure from sucking the happiness out of people. The most exalted form of this pleasure is, apparently, the Dementor's Kiss, in which they suck out a person's entire soul.

Dumbledore and Voldemort both know that the Dementors are concerned purely with their own self-interest: "They will not remain loyal to you. Voldemort can offer them far more scope for their powers and pleasures than you can." The self interest of the Dementors was at first in the favor of an alliance with the Ministry in order for them to obtain control of Azkaban and drain the happiness out of its prisoners. Now Voldemort has returned and the Dementors will have an opportunity to be able to use their powers and indulge their pleasures on a far larger scale.

Now that they are about to be offered power, the Dementors will be unscrupulous in who they choose to terrorize or even Kiss. Now, in Voldemort's first rise to power, he could not be a potential victim of the Dementors because he did not have any of the happy memories they so crave. Voldemort's moments of savage triumphs do not exactly qualify as "happy" memories. But now he has a part of Harry in him: his blood. He, to some extent, shares in Harry's happy memories. In the right circumstances, in a moment of weakness, the Dementors would not hesitate to administer the Kiss even to Voldemort. This would finish off Voldemort once and for all. My theory is that there will be a big battle in the seventh book and somehow through the deeds of Harry and Co. Voldemort will experience a moment of weakness. Then the Dementors will turn on him and administer the Kiss. That would most certainly be the end of Voldemort. For, as Lupin says, once the Kiss is administered, "The person's soul is irretrievably gone forever, lost." Not even Voldemort's anti-death precautions could save him from that.

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Ron's Chess Partner - Nov 14, 2002

Well, I had some free time tonight, and decided to read through a chapter looking for anything that could possibly be useful in the books to come. In "The Dueling Club", there were a couple things that are very minor, possibly not even worth noting:

-We learn Hermione specializes in portable, waterproof fires -Neville buys protective charms

There are a couple things that have been talked about enough on this forum already:

-Harry, wondering if he could be related to Slytherin, notes that he knows nothing about his father's family -Neville makes the comment that he is 'almost a Squib.'

Then, there was one thing I found to be interesting. Has anyone else mentioned this? It is on Page 189 in the scholastic paperback...

"I wonder who will be teaching us?" said Hermione as they edged into the chattering crowd. "Someone told me Flitwick was a dueling champion when he was young -- maybe it'll be him."

If this information is accurate, the fact that Flitwick was a dueling champion could potentially be important. Perhaps he will duel someone in a coming book. Perhaps this duel will be his death. It's a long shot, but it's definitely something about his character to consider.

So, the search came up with very little that was relavent. There was, however, a good example of how important information can be successfully buried in a way to make it seem insignificant. After Justin is petrified, we get the following passage:

"Harry got to his feet, his breathing fast and shallow, his heart doing a kind of drumroll against his ribs. He looked wildly up and down the deserted corridor and saw a line of spiders scuttling as fast as they could away from the bodies. The only sounds were the muffled voices of teachers from the classes on either side."

Obviously, the important part of that paragraph (in hindsight) is the mention of the spiders. JKR skillfully buried that in the middle of a sentence in the middle of a paragraph in the middle of a scene! The best place to hide something important - right between other things that are strong and interesting, but aren't particularly important. Hope that helps anyone looking for subtle references to things that might be very, very important in later books. Smile

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W J - Nov 14, 2002

I finished re-reading Book 1 a couple of weeks ago and am almost finished reading CoS again. I just noticed that when Lucius delivers the papers that suspend Dumbledore as headmaster, Fudge is upset and fearful. Fudge even argues with Lucius about it a little. Fudge did not want Dumbledore removed and said something like, "If Dumbledore can't handle this situation, who can?".

We have been discussing Fudge and his loyalties on another thread and I think this incident might point toward Fudge just being incompetent and not a Voldemort follower.

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Slytherin Prefect - Nov 15, 2002

Well, I think that if there's anything we missed that'll be key in upcoming scenarios, it's going to be in Chapter 13: The Very Secret Diary, so I guess I'll take that chapter.

Hmm... The only thing that jumps out at me is how Rowling goes out of her way to point out similarities between Harry and Riddle...

The first when we first see Riddle:

A boy of about sixteen entered, taking off his pointed hat. A silver prefect's badge was glinting on his chest. He was much taller than Harry, but he, too, had jet-black hair.

The next when Dippet is questioning Riddle:

"What do you mean" said Dippet with a squeak in his voice, sitting up in his chair, "Riddle, do you mean you know something about these attacks?"

"No, sir," said Riddle quickly.

But Harry was sure it was the same sort of "no" that he himself had given Dumbledore.

And once again when Riddle encounters Dumbledore:

"Well, hurry off to bed," said Dumbledore, giving Riddle exactly the kind of penetrating stare Harry knew so well.

The third one stands out to me the most. Even though Dumbledore has most likely changed a bit, he looks at Riddle the exact same way he looks at Harry. That intrigues me.

I'm going to follow up with Chapter 17: The Heir of Slytherin: I just found something.

Gawd, it's so small, but it's there...

When Ginny, Harry, Lockhart, and Ron emerge from the Chamber, Dumbledore tells Ginny to go to the Hospital Wing and get something.

Chocolate. A cup of hot chocolate.

Riddle just got done draining the life from her, much like the Dementors drain the life out of someone. And Ginny needs some chocolate.

Now I KNOW that the dementors are somehow tied to Voldemort. I wouldn't be surprised if he CREATED them.

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Dumbledore II - Nov 15, 2002

But if Voldemort created them, would the MOM really be that stupid to make them guards in Azkaban?

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Slytherin Prefect - Nov 15, 2002

What if the ministry doesn't know?

But yes, they are that stupid. ^_^

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Dumbledore II - Nov 15, 2002

One would think they should know, shouldn't they? After years of Voldemorts reign?

They can't be THAT stupid. But if you look at Fudge ....... That really makes you think how the rest of them is?!

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Choco* - Nov 15, 2002

Let's see, SP. If the Sorting Hat is the root of all evil (note from editor : One of Slytherins Prefects pet theories) , then chocolate must be the root of all good!

In the books, chocolate does come up an awful lot. Chocolate frogs, chocolate against the Dementors, and probably a bunch more I'm forgetting. Chocolate also does seem to have medicinal properties.

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Keith Detloff - Nov 15, 2002

Lockhart is an honorary member of the Dark Force Defence League. What do we know of this group? Does it defend Dark Forces or Defend against the Dark Forces?

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Wendelin the Weird - Nov 15, 2002

Just watched the CoS movie about an hour ago and one thing that really came to me during the film was that Tom Riddle was trying to use up all of Ginny's energy to come back into his body. Ginny would die, but he, as Tom Riddle would have his body back... therefore, there could be two Tom Riddle/Voldemorts at the same time! Voldemort the defeated one after PS, off in the forest getting nursed by Nagini and Wormtail, AND, if he would have succeeded in taking all of Ginny's life force, the Voldemort in the CoS. This raises a lot of possibilities, doesn't it?

Another thing, was the dementor/Voldemort thing. Voldemort feeds off Ginny's lifeforce in the same way that dementors do off people's emotions. That would explain chocolate for both situations, I think? But why chocolate, is it just used to draw us into realizing the type of power exchange here is the same?

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NCThomas - Nov 15, 2002

Since the dementors aren't even mentioned by name until book 3, I don't know why they're in this topic.

But to answer the question, I think it might be something about that hat. Look here in the Lexicon:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

There's a JKR quote there that says the hat becomes important later.

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Wendelin the Weird - Nov 15, 2002

You are right about the dementors, but it just came up.

Funny thing with the Sorting Hat... Mr. Weasley's advice..."Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain!" It will be interesting to learn more about the Sorting hat for sure!

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Slytherin Prefect - Nov 16, 2002

The dementors are on this tread because we're looking for clues into the future.

I thought this thread was supposed to be about brainstorming ideas, not limiting our train of thought...

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Wendelin the Weird - Nov 16, 2002

Yes, I agree. I think the dementors have something to do with the future, and it came up because we are trying to figure out Ginny Weasley's experiences with Voldemort in Book 2, right? Yes, they relate... I thought I must've led us off track, SP

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Slytherin Prefect - Nov 16, 2002

Yes, through that chocolate. Whatever the power the dementors have, Voldemort has something that hits the same life force, hence chocolate being the cure in both cases.

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Wendelin the Weird - Nov 16, 2002

How about if Tom Riddle's mother died giving birth to TWINS? That isn't uncommon in either world, twins have always historically been viewed suspect, too. Maybe Harry's grandfather was Tom's twin, was also sent to an orphanage as a baby, but was adopted and received the name Potter from his adopted parents? He was raised with love and guidance that Tom Riddle was not and it has passed down this jealous zeal to do away with the Potters because he hated this brother so much. That would explain partly why Harry and Voldemort could share a lot of qualities including their looks, powers, and wand choice.

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Muggle7689 - Nov 16, 2002

I don't know if this was important, but..What about in when Mr.Malfoy insults Harry in chapter 18 "Dobby's Reward"? Lucius says,"You'll meet the same sticky end as your parents one of these days, Harry Potter. They were meddlesome fools, too." What did James and Lily meddle with that caused their death? Hmmm...

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Nine - Nov 16, 2002

My random ramblings:

We don't know enough about the Potters, we don't know enough about Lily's friends at school (I only note this because of how important James' friends become), and we know very little about the Evans'. Any or all of these is going to be important.

Chocolate is scientifically proven to make you happy.

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ginny7 - Nov 16, 2002

chapter one:

LV is mentioned by JK as the "greatest Dark sorcerer of all time" where would this put Grindelwald?

(the rest of the quote: "somehow-nobody understood why- V's powers had been destroyed the instant he had failed to kill Harry."

chapter two:

Dobby is first mentioned in the morning as eyes peering through the bush. Then Harry spends the rest of the day doing chores. When he enters his room, Dobby is on his bed. What is Dobby doing all day? How did he find Harry's house? If he is at Harry's house all day wouldn't his absence be noticed? WHAT is Dobby doing all day?

later after the "Offend Dobby? Dobby has never been asked to sit down by a wizard-like an equal"

"'You can't have met many decent wizards,' said Harry, trying to cheer him up. Dobby shook his head."

does that mean no? If Dobby is the house-elf for the Malfoy's he must have inadvertantly overheard info (as we see in book 4 with the second task) What does Dobby know? Who is he referring too?

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Liz Mann - Nov 27, 2002

I've thought of something that might be important that the film might've drawn more attention to. Why was Hagrid in Knockturn Alley in book 2? Quote from book: "What were you doing down there, anyway?" "I was lookin' fer a Flesh-Eatin' Slug Repellent." Answers straight away, fine. BUT in the film, Hagrid said, "Me? I was, erm... I was lookin' fer a Flesh-Eatin' Slug Repellent." He hesitates as though he's quickly thinking it up. It draws more attention to why he was there than the book does. Do you think he really was looking for Flesh-Eating Slug Repellent?

And, also, whoever mentioned Ginny being able to speak Parseltongue to open the Chamber, she could only do that because Riddle was controlling her. He says in the book, "I grew powerful, more powerful than little Miss Weasley. Powerful enough to start feeding Miss Weasley a few of MY secrets, to start pouring a little of MY soul into HER..." I think because he was controlling her, he was making her speak Parseltongue, because during those times when she was in a trance, they were connected.

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Kathy Lynch - Nov 27, 2002

Yeah, I always wondered about that Hagrid-in-Knockturn-Alley thing. Just a little, you know? I mean, I'm PRETTY sure that Hagrid was telling the truth, BUT.....

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--Poll KY--- - Dec 10, 2002 2

In book 2 we learn that the MoM is still carting Wizards of to prison with no trial. That Hagrid's past history should not have had any bearing since his accuser in the first instance was none other than a young Lord Voldemort. It strengthened the idea that the elder Malfoy is a follower of Voldemort both because he is getting rid of some proscribed items in Knockturn Alley and later when it is brought out that he was the one who slipped the diary in with Ginny's books. We also learned that he is less than pleased with his son. The book introduced Dobby who had a part to play in book 4. And what about the title. It is Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets plural.

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yolanda collins - Dec 10, 2002

JKR said that there were two important clues to future books that most people wouldn't have found in book two. Book two is a more indepth look at Harry and his inner conflicts amongst others character's inner conflicts, such as Malfoy. What about his relationship with his father, it most likely will prove to be the issue that will decide where his loyalties lie. Ron's pride and growing like for Hermionie. Hagrid's past was dredged up to haunt him and it's kind of like the precursor for the dredging up of many character's lives. Book two brings out the start to a list of Wizarding World social issues. There's alot here if you look beyond the surface.

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Denise P. - Dec 10, 2002

Hmm..Harry Potter...book 2. We get insights to Voldemort we have not ever had before.

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Kevin YouBustSlug - Dec 10, 2002

While I will readily admit that Book II was my least favorite of the series, it does introduce us to the Phoenix, Fawkes, who proves to be important in book IV and probably will be in Book V, The Order of the Phoenix. Don't underestimate the importance of the Basilisk which was killed in Book II, nor the importance of Harry's skill as a parselmouth. We get a glimpse into the power of elf magic, which is important in book IV and will probably continue to be. I suspect that Moaning Myrtle will show up again, besides her brief appearances in Book IV. We probably ought not presume that the Chamber of Secrets is not going to come up again in later books, Poll KY makes a good point about the plurality of it. I'm also impressed by the character development of Arthur Weasley. We learn that he is a good kind man, who wouldn't want to harm a garden gnome, but is willing to go at it mano-a-mano with his enemies if he's is protecting his family. There's a lot of meat to book II. I must reread it with a more open mind.

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Marie E. - Dec 10, 2002

We also get more insight on how forgetful Voldemort/Tom can be during crucial moments. He forgot about the effects of Phoenix tears in this one. It definitely gives insight into how he thinks.

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Krumbein - Dec 11, 2002 3

Now there is one thing, i am really thinking about: The plural in chamber of secrets. It is implying, there is more than one secret (the basilisk). In my translated version of the book its title is (retranslated) "Chamber of horror". This does of course not imply that there would be more than one horror/secret. Another thing: People have pointed out the significance of numbers like 12 in all the books. In the translated version, the measuring system has been changed from imperial to metric, thereby changing also the numbers.

Now it would be interesting, if this changes in translation happened because JKR did not care about this things (this would mean, that there is nothing behind the plural in CoS, and the special numbers), or because JKR did not give enough information to the translators (this would mean, that JKR does not care about her readers :-(( ).

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Marè - Dec 11, 2002

Okay, retranslated my copy reads "the secret chamber" so the chamber would then be secret (which it was). That doesn't mean there can't be more than one awful thing hidden in it.

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Ridicus - Dec 11, 2002

You are looking for hints, here is one, The introduction of dobby and the fact that they and other creatures hate Voldemort and would make powerful allies if the wizards would realise this!

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T. Armstrong - Dec 13, 2002

She specified 'subtle' clues who's importance hasn't yet been shown (through book 4 at least), so...things that haven't yet shown any significance in the plot? hmmmmmm....the two most obvious to me are Hagrid in Knockturn Alley and the secret chamber beneath the Malfoy's drawing room.

We know the Knockturn Alley scene was written very subtley in the book and we know Rowling told Coltrane the future of his character so he could play the part accurately and he 'plays up' that scene. It's obviously very important.

We know Malfoy has a number of Voldemort's old school things and some very valuable Dark Arts stuff hidden in that chamber. It will be important in the future.

Now, here's some more subtle stuff that may or may not mean anything, but it certainly hasn't shown any real value yet.

---Harry was sure he had never heard the name T.M. Riddle before, but it still seemed to mean something to him, almost as though Riddle was a friend he'd had when he was very small, and had half-forgotten.

---Dumbledore had long sweeping auburn hair and beard.

---Dobby knows 'alot' about Harry. He thinks Harry's too good, too great, to lose. He's too important to face this danger. (I'm still curious as to why Dobby thinks Harry is in such personal danger in CoS)?

---The DADA position has been considered *jinxed* for a while now. That would implicate that people didn't last long in that position, long before the 1991 school year.

---We learn Ron, Fred, & George all know how to pick locks (and later Harry receives a pen-knife that can open any lock). Dunno, lock-picking is just an obsession with me! ;D

---There's a virtual mega-spider army living in the Forbidden Forest.

---The Whomping Willow is referred too as old and ancient. This sparks my curiosity because it was planted for the benefit of Remus Lupin, who was never described as old or ancient! ;D

---And then the ones others have mentioned before Harry's Gryffindor/Slytherin connection and Ginny & Riddle swapping souls, Arthur's car is still running wild in the Forbidden Forest.

There could be all sorts of important information lurking in the pages of CoS!

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Istari Jones - Dec 13, 2002

Some one brought up the fact about the plurality of the Chamber of Secrets (note S on Secrets). When the Weasley Twins gave Harry the Marauder's Map in POA they said one of the tunnels fell in "last year". That would have been the year Harry and Ron went down to the COS to get Ginny with Lockhart. Someone else on another thread asked if there were were more to the COS than just Tom Riddle and the Basilisk?

Also, would Tom "RIDDLE"'s name have more meaning to it?

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ginny7 - Dec 13, 2002

you know when I first read that part about the "caved in" tunnel I thought - well can't you do something about it? It would be interesting to find out where it leads...you could be well right- Where do all the other tunnels lead? Can we make a list? Because we all know how useful the Hogsmeade one turned out to be. How far away do you think Hogsmeade is? Sounds like a long walk for Harry.

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Istari Jones - Dec 13, 2002

Thanks, ginny7. I wonder if the "Reparo" charm works on everything. I mean, couldn't someone who wanted to go into that tunnel just say "Reparo" and the tunnel be passable?

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Kätië - Dec 13, 2002

I was wondering if the sword Harry pulled out of the sorting hat has more signifigance than it seems. I mean, what would Godric Griffindor be using a sword for when he had a wand?

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Spastic Cheng - Dec 14, 2002

Think about what Dumbledore said:

"Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the Hat, Harry."

Now think about the sword: it has the words 'Godric Gryffindor' embedded upon the blade.

Now think about Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table. Arthur pulled a sword, Excalibur, out of an anvil, and the people recognised his kingship and bowed down to him. Now the sword had the inscription 'Whoso pulleth out this sword is rightwise king of all Britain'. The anvil could be the Sorting Hat, 'concealing' the sword until a 'true Gryffindor' pulled it out and used it for a good cause.

This might be far-fetched, but there *could* be a connection. Hence the answer to Katie's question.

PS. Igraine surrendered the child, Arthur, to Merlin. Could this be Harry Potter, put into the care of Dumbledore? I mean, he was involved in the Fidelius Charm...?

PPS. Arthur did not grow up with his parents; he was put into the care of Sir Ector. Similarly, Harry Potter was put in the care of the Dursleys...?

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Asktqa - Dec 14, 2002

Hmmm... not quite sure if this adds up to anything, just random thoughts I had when I was re-reading the book, but I'm still wondering why Percy Weasley was acting so suspiciously in COS. Okay, this can all be explained away by saying that he was sneaking around to see Penelope, but I still think there could be something else. Ron and Harry see him down by the Slytherin common room when they are wandering around down there. What is he doing down there? If the Ravenclaw common rooms are nearby as well, he could have been meeting Penelope, yes. But she came out of the entrance 15 minutes ago (Ron and Harry ask her directions) What is Percy still doing down there? The most interesting thing about that scene is that they kept it in the film, where I can't see it serves any purpose, unless the film people are trying to make us suspect Percy or something. He also tells Ron and Harry off for wandering around while everyone else is at dinner, but Percy himself is wandering around suspiciously! And of course, in this book he is infamously seen reading 'Prefects Who Gained Power.'

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eventrider17 - Dec 14, 2002

Not to try to disprove you theory or anything, but couldn't Percy be wandering the halls simply because he is patrolling around as a prefect?

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megfox - Dec 14, 2002

I would think that one of the prefects jobs would be to patrol the castle, but that doesn't mean that every time they see Percy somewhere suspiscious that is what he is doing. But good point, eventrider.

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Lamb - Dec 15, 2002

No-one has mentioned this in this thread (maybe it was said elsewhere, but I haven't seen it), but if you read CoS literally, it says that Ginny is Slytherin's heir. Professor Binns, when asked by Hermione, says that only the heir of Slytherin could open the Chamber of Secrets; and Tom Riddle, at the end of the book, says that Ginny opened the Chamber of Secrets.

Everyone, including me, has taken this to mean that Riddle is the heir and was using Ginny; but supposing Ginny, through some means which has not yet been explained to us, has become Slytherin's heir? A lot of the clues which have been dropped about Book 5 would fit in with this scenario, including, of course, who dies.

Maybe JKR was fooling us with the Edgar Allan Poe gambit- hiding the clue by making it obvious. She tells us Ginny is the heir, assuming that we won't believe it.

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Urg the Unclean - Dec 15, 2002

Good one, Lamb. I suppose we should be open with the term heir too. Most of us think of an heir as being a blood descendent which is usually the case but it actually is to whomever you bequeath to. a lot hinges on Salazar's death date. Did he live 150 years, dying 900 years before Harry's birth? If so, wouldn't there have been a string of heirs, at least one each generation to the present day? Why the delay of almost a millenium before a "true heir" is able to open the chamber?

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Marie E. - Dec 15, 2002

After we saw COS, my husband asked me the same thing, is Ginny the heir to Slytherin. He was under the impression that Malfoy knew to give the diary to Ginny because she was the only one who could open the chamber (besides parselmouth Griffyndor's). Of course, he never read the book so I blew him off. Smile

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Holly Mitchell - Dec 16, 2002

But wasn't it mentioned by Tom himself that he wanted diary to go to Harry? He was quite disappointed to have to use Ginny instead. And then Dobby tried to save Harry all the time, didn't care about poor girl at all...

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Shanan - Dec 16, 2002

I was wondering, if the tunnel that Harry, Ron and Lockhart went down to save Ginny was the tunnel that Fred and George said caved in, wouldn't they have seen the Chamber of Secrets in all the times that they were using if to get to Hogmeades?

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Denise S. - Dec 16, 2002

There are so many tunnels and caves and rooms in Hogwarts that it wouldn't be the same tunnel as the CoS (in my opinion). Plus, James & Co. would have gone through it themselves, wouldn't they've?, And they never had any petrification problems Smile.

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Kätië - Dec 16, 2002

Hmmm, I can't really see Salazar Slytherin bequeathing anything to Ginny Weasley - she just doesn't seem like his type of person. But, you do have a point there. However, if you going to be literal with the fact that "only the heir of Slytherin could open the Chamber of Secrets", wouldn't that make Harry the heir of Slytherin too? He also opened the chamber to get Ginny out.

that she is the heir to Slytherin, but it may be that she and Harry now share some of Voldemorts powers....

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SilverTree - Dec 17, 2002

Voldemort IS the heir of Slytherin, it was him who opened the chamber, using Ginny, and Harry only managed to open it because voldemort transferred some of his powers to him.

anyway, CP, you have a point. if Voldemort left some of his powers in Harry he could have left some of them in Ginny too.

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Sly Girl - Dec 22, 2002

here's what I don't understand about book two and mostly about Tom Riddle/Voldemort.. how did HE know he was the Heir? When we meet him in the story he already knows he's the heir of Slytherin. Where did he come across this mysterious knowledge? Why does no one else know? Does it have something to do with the grandfather he was named after (by his mother, right before she died-Marvolo) Furthermore, in the very first passage Tom ever writes to Harry in the diary, he gives himself away. He tells Harry that he is the one who caught the person who opened the chamber but then goes on to tell Harry that the person able to do so was still out there. Harry doesn't think to ask him about this discrepancy and frankly, the first time I read it, neither did I. It's only with the re-reading I've been doing did this contradiction seem to bounce out at me....

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W J - Dec 22, 2002

SG, I thought Tom Riddle meant that Hagrid opened the chamber and Hagrid was never punished and was still at Hogwarts. Tom Riddle is a liar. We can't trust anything he said in CoS.

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Mattew Bates - Jan 13, 2003

The thing I find fascinating about this whole thread is that we're trying to separate red herrings & incidental things from potentially useful information. I think there's a lot of potential overlap between this thread and the Read-Along Club. I'm a little bit ahead in my re-read, though, and this is burning into my head.

Scorch marks.

When HRH are looking for clues in the spot where Mrs. Norris was found, they noticed scorch marks on the ground. Were these explained away (and I forgot), or a remnant of a hallway prank (just a red herring to keep us thinking about potential Chamber monsters), or something that will become significant later? It's mysteries like these that keep me coming back.

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Nine - Jan 13, 2003

No, I don't think Ginny or the Basilisk or the diary would have caused scorch marks, so I don't think that was explained.

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W J - Jan 13, 2003

The basilisk burned the film. Why not the floor?

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Audrey O'Connor - Jan 13, 2003

I would like to bring up Hagrid in Knockturn Alley again. A question that just occurred to me is, why would "flesh-eating" slugs be going after the school cabbages? I can kind of understand them going after the mandrakes as they did later, but not the cabbages. That whole line just doesn't seem right to me. Why not just say he was looking for flesh-eating slug repellant and leave it at that? If the slugs were after the mandrakes already at that point why not just say so? We might not know what a mandrake was but the scene later in Herbology would explain that. If the slugs weren't after the mandrakes yet how did Hagrid know that he would need slug repellant later on?

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Marè - Jan 14, 2003

I totally missed the fact that the slugs went after the mandrakes, when did they do that? and besides why?? mandrakes aren't flesh, right?
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Key things from book two? (Condensed Thread) - Part 2

Post  Elanor on Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:32 am

Sly Girl - Jan 14, 2003

er.. aren't they? I mean.. they get acne, after all...

er.. never mind... here, from the lexicon itself: Mandrake seedlings are tufty little plants, purplish green in color (CS6) with what look like tiny babies growing where the roots would be. These creatures grow and develop over the course of several months until they mature and can be harvested and used for potions.

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Caput Draconis - Jan 15, 2003

Is it possible that Hagrid was buying a repellant that would eat the flesh of the slugs that were eating the cabbages, as opposed to a repellant for slugs that eat flesh?

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Nine - Jan 19, 2003

I've been rereading CoS and I found an interesting point. Harry says to Riddle "No one knows why you lost your powers, but I know why you couldn't KILL me." Does this mean that the failed Avada Kedavra wasn't the cause of Voldie losing his power, or was this a mistake on J.K. Rowling's part?

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Nine - Jan 22, 2003

Another thing I forgot to mention that I noticed in CoS: the resemblance between Harry and Tom Riddle. Both have dark hair, both are orphans, both are half-bloods, both are Parselmouths, that's all been mentioned already, but what hasn't been mentioned is that both grew up in the time of a powerful Dark Wizard (Grindlewald was in power (or at least defeated) about when Riddle graduates) and that both had the opportunity to go into Slytherin. I know, I know, some of you are going to say that the Sorting Hat never mentioned Slytherin as the house to place Harry, but the understanding I had was that Harry was being given a chance to say "yes, sure, Slytherin sounds good" and he would have gotten in instantly if he had.

What I'm trying to show here is a restatement of what Dumbledore said, "It's our choices that make us what we are". Tom Riddle and Harry Potter started on similar paths, but made different choices. We know what happened to Riddle on his path. Harry's abilities are similar to Riddle, so we might see in him what Voldie could have been instead. That's why JKR is making them so similar, to show the difference a few choices can make.

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Brandon Pennington - Jan 22, 2003 12:54 pm (#129 of 225) Hey I found something out in CoS, Fred and George "rescue" a fire dwelling lizard from Care of Magical Creatures I belive, it says, check the american paperback vrs. for yourself the page is 130, this may be a red herring to the Scorch Marks, but its also might show up in the future,

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Denise S. - Jan 24, 2003

I feel stupid. The entire time, I thought "Flesh-Eating Slug Repellent" meant slug repellent that would eat the flesh of the slugs, and why would that only be available in Knockturn alley? Duh, it makes so much sense. What was that about english major again?

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SpasticCheng - Feb 14, 2003

If it were Repellent for flesh eating slugs, I suppose it would read Flesh-Eating-Slug Repellent, not Flesh-Eating Slug Repellent.

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azi - Mar 15, 2003

There is such a thing as flesh eating slugs though. Lupin mentions it while talking about Boggarts!

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FirstThenLast - Apr 5, 2003

In PS, we know that Hagrid was given Norbert's egg by Voldemort-Quirrell in order to gain information from him. Who gives Hagrid Aragog? Aragog says,"A traveller gave me to Hagrid when I was an egg." Who was this traveller? It doesn't seem like it would be Tom Riddle. Was it another wizard (Grindewald related?) This seems to fit into the category of small-but-possibly-important...

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Denise S. - Apr 5, 2003

Also, it was mentioned on another thread that when Harry hears the name Tom Riddle in CoS, it sounded familiar to him, 'like an old friend' or something; it has been thought that this detail could be important, and I myself am personally hoping to find out if there's anything about it in book 5 ;-)

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Mrs. Black - Apr 11, 2003

I think there is more to the Death Day Party than we give it credit for. I don't have any theories about what part of it is going to be important, but too much time was devoted to it for what little it did to drive the plot of COS or for the development of the series thus far. We've been told that we're going to be learning more about ghosts, which seems to indicate at least one ghost will be important in the upcoming books. I can't really put my finger on it, but I'm quite sure the Death Day Party will come back to haunt us.

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Sly Girl - Apr 12, 2003

Looks like they didn't even attempt to film it for the 2nd movie, so JKR must have told them it wasn't important enough to keep. Smile

If you go through the dvd they actually have drawings/sketches of what a death day party would of looked like, which is interesting...

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Rosariana - Apr 12, 2003

If you watch the interview with JKR and Steve Kloves, they give the slightest hints about what is important. JK mentioned the fact that some things had to stay in the movie because they would be important to the future plot. I tried to think of scenes in the movie that contributed little or nothing to the plot of CoS, and my mind jumped immediately to the scene with Percy confronting Harry and Ron as Crabbe and Goyle. Can anyone think of any others?

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Carina - Apr 12, 2003

I noticed that they kept Percy's girlfriend (if only VERY briefly) in as well.

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Sly Girl - Apr 12, 2003

WEll, of course there's this whole speculation about Penelope because of her name. Apparently she leads men to their deaths and/or betrays them. >;-o Hopefully Percy will not go that route.

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Asktqa - Apr 13, 2003

Yes, that's exactly what I thought of too, Rosariana. I notice they didn't keep in 'Prefects Who Gained Power' though. Smile

I've always thought there was something more going on with Percy in COS. (I think I said something about it earlier on this thread, but it might have been a different thread) He's always hanging around in suspicious places.

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W J - Apr 13, 2003

I don't think anything that Percy did in book 2 was important to future plot twists. I think we heard about him doing suspicious things just to throw us and Harry off the real clues. Percy was a red herring all through book 2.

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koolnkinky - Apr 15, 2003

Ok going back to the secret passages thing... lets just imagine that the passage that caved in and the passage to the chamber of secrets were the same passage then wouldn't that imply that not only the Weasley twins but also Harry's father and his friends knew about it too. I mean you can't draw something on a map if you don't know it exists can you? Just a thought!

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Mrs. Black - Apr 15, 2003

I agree, that tunnel and the Chamber of Secrets can't be one and the same, unless there was some sort of charm so that no one would recognize it. But, it is possible that Lockhart's little mishap caused the another tunnel in the area to collapse as well. Or, it could just another handy little tip that will come back later.

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Nine - Apr 16, 2003

The twins said that they used that passage "up until last winter", so it can't have caved in when Lockhart's spell misfired, unless they suddenly stopped using it and then it caved in.

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Mehtariel - Apr 16, 2003

They left that bit by Aragog to the effect of:"The monster was born in the Chamber. I came to Hagrid in the pocket of a traveller from a distant land." I don't see how that really related to the plot of the movie. He could have just said 'Nope, it wasn't me." In fact, I think adding the traveller part is an unnecessary detail that was included for some reason.

Also, they made certain the flying car was shown entering back into the Forbidden Forest. Interesting...

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Cliff Hamaker - Apr 16, 2003

Metahriel, if they hadn't shown the car going into the forest, then it would seem out of place for it to rescue Harry and Ron from Aragog and his offspring.

And I know some one else watched the interview on the DVD, and they explicitly said in it that there was an important bit that needed to be included because it was important and that it was in the Chamber of Secrets scene. I know we've talked about the sword, but I don't think the screnwriter would have left that bit out. So, there is something else that he would have left out and JK said put it in. What could it be?

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Pinky - Apr 16, 2003

Maybe the tears that Fawkes uses to heal Harry? That part in the movie seemed stilted to me. Maybe they had to include it because JKR said to?

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Pinky - Apr 16, 2003

I got a feeling from the interview actually, that something about the set design or architecture from the Chamber was going to be important. *shrugs* I probably made that up in my feverish brain.

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Cliff Hamaker - Apr 16, 2003

The guy is a screen writer, so I don't thin he has much to do witht the set, just the lines, character interactions, etc. So, I don't think the set was *the* thing that they were referring to.

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Denise S. - Apr 16, 2003

Phoenix tears they *had* to include in there already because that's what saves Harry's life; they wouldn't have left that out even if they hadn't consulted w/ JKR.

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Rosariana - Apr 17, 2003

Seriously though, maybe the fact that the sorting hat brought Gryffindor's sword to Harry could be important? Maybe Harry could use the hat in the future to retrieve other belongings of Gryffindor, or maybe even to communicate with him somehow? I know it sounds far-fetched but crazier things have happened.

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Pinky - Apr 17, 2003

Rosariana, that's what I was thinking too. I can see a movie director wanting to cut out the sorting hat and have this neat scene with Fawkes clutching the sword in his talons and swooping down to Harry so he could grab the sword. Why have it delivered in a hat? JKR must have told them to include that.

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Cliff Hamaker - Apr 17, 2003

Okay, my brother said that the guy *wasn't* talking about the Chamber of Secrets scene in the interview but the entire movie itself. I haven't watched the interview again to decide whether or not to believe him, but it *is* something to consider.

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Mrs. Black - Apr 17, 2003

I saw the clip that way as well. I assumed he was talking about something he left in the movie as a whole, not something that was specifically in the Chamber itself.

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W J - Apr 17, 2003

The scene where Harry talks with the sorting hat and it tells him he would have done well in Slytherin, combined with the scene where Dumbledore tells Harry that Voldemort transferred some of his abilities to Harry, will be important I think.

If you notice, when Dumbledore says "I think Voldemort transferred some of his powers to you," then Harry repeats it back to Dumbledore by saying, "Voldemort transferred some of his powers to me?"

It's like they wanted to be sure we heard that twice.

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Mrs. Black - Apr 17, 2003

WJ, I think you're right. We need to know that Voldemort transfered some of his powers to Harry to explain the Parseltounge, but the repetition of it makes me think it will become important later. In the grand tradition of Voldemort forgetting the basic, ancient magic it could be very important later.

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schoff - Apr 19, 2003

The big one that stood out for me in the movie was Ron's "Oh, by the way, Happy Birthday, Harry" line. Why was that put in? It seemed totally unneccessary.

The other one was the whole Knockturn Alley scene. When the took out Draco and Lucius' scene (which I thought was the pivotal part), why didn't they take out the rest of it, too? It wasn't even there for comic relief.

They last one I saw was a setup for PoA, when the car threw out Scabbers, and Ron yelled "Scabbers, you're okay!" The only mention of the rat in the whole movie.

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Sly Girl - Apr 19, 2003

The happy birthday line was there because there's something important about Harry's birthday, of course! lol He never leaves to go anywhere until after his birthday has past. Hmm.. I smell a Dumbledore.

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Nine - Apr 20, 2003

Scabbers was hardly mentioned in the book, either. They probably had to remind us he was there. And yes, the movie mention of Harry's birthday does seem to confirm the "Harry's birthday is important" theory.

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Mrs. Black - Apr 20, 2003

The COS movie is really shattering my conceptions what of Harry Potter land. Okay, maybe shattering is a bit strong, but there are definately things that I thought were going to be important that apparently aren't. I had this whole theory based on the fact that Nearly Headless Nick was killed on Oct. 31st, but alas. My newest theory: whatever it is that's important will come as a complete shock.

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Madam Poppy - Apr 20, 2003

You sometimes notice things when listening to the audio tapes that you don't see when reading. If Prof. Binns was wrong about there being a Chamber of Secrets what else could he be wrong about? We know that alot of comments said in a joking manner turn out to be true.

"It is a myth! It does not exist! There is not a shred of evidence that Slytherin ever built so much as a secret broom cupboard!"

I immediately thought of that mysterious room that everyone's been looking for. I never thought that the "broom closet" was large enough to be considered a room. But when you look at the DVD deleted scenes that broom cupboard looks as large as my laundry room.

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Saralinda - Apr 20, 2003

When Dobby appeared on Privet Drive, he specifically told Harry of a plot to do terrible things at Hogwarts. Now, perhaps I'm off-base here, but when I think "plot" I think "more than one person," as in "conspiracy."

But with whom would Lucius be conspiring? Unless house elves are telepathic, Lucius must have discussed the Great Diary Caper aloud with someone else around Stately Malfoy Manor. Not Draco, for sure. Narcissa? Possibly, but he doesn't strike me as the kind of person who values women any higher than he values house-elves (<-- pure prejudice on my part, I know).

When he does not appear alone, the person Lucius Malfoy appears with most frequently is Cornelius Fudge. I know we already harbor serious suspicions about Mr. Fudge, but was the evil aspect of this relationship one of the key things we were supposed to get from Book Two?

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Denise S. - Apr 20, 2003

I wouldn't discount the idea that Lucius might not be organizing the plot by himself, but I don't think Fudge would have done it. First off, Fudge got upset with Lucius came and forced DD to resign, and I think Fudge would have enough foresight to see that a monster killing students would mean trouble with DD. Second, I think that if Fudge was involved in any DE activities, it would be something more direct than this. Didn't the other thread say something to the effect of 'Fudge is in on the basic things but isn't deeply involved with DE activity'?

But it does make me wonder who else could be in on it...

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Makgraf - Apr 20, 2003 8

I think that maybe some of those former Death Eaters were in on the plot. I really don't think that Fudge was involved. He seemed geniunly upset about the attacks and his ministry does far too much for muggles if Fudge was really a mudblood hatin' Voldemort supporter. As I said before, Fudge is more Neville Chamberlain than Edward VIII.

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Rosariana - Apr 21, 2003

Lucius could have discussed the plot with Riddle throught the diary. He probably knew how to work it, who knows how long he had it? Maybe Dobby made himself invisible and spied on Lucius writing with Riddle.

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Marè - Apr 21, 2003 3:

No, if Lucius would have talked to the diary, the diary didn't have to learn all those things about Harry from Ginny, as Tom said he did. If Lucius would have communicated with it, he would have known beforehand and Harry would have been his first target instead of beginning to hunt for muggleborns and then in the end, as Tom tells us, finding a new interest in defeating Harry.

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Sly Girl - Apr 21, 2003 3

Here's an idea- maybe Lucius wasn't sure the diary would 'work'... in the way that he wanted it to. Perhaps he wasn't sure how strong the memory of Riddle would be. Which might also mean he kept the idea of the diary to himself, in case it backfired. On the other hand...

has anyone considered that the people Lucius told the "plot" to were Crabbe and Goyle? You have their sons acting as complete bodyguards and henchmen to Draco. Why wouldn't their grown up counter parts be in similar roles to Lucius? I think Dobby could of overheard something Lucius was bragging about to them.

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Denise S. - Apr 21, 2003

There's also the possiblity that had Lucius read and used the diary, he would have been "possessed" the way that Ginny was. True he was/is a death eater, but the young Tom Riddle wouldn't have cared.

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Saralinda - Apr 22, 2003

I wonder how many more of Riddle/Voldie's "old school things" Lucius and his friends have lying about their manors -- and I wonder how they could possibly work into future plots.

'Nother thing, while I'm still beating the Dobby Drum here (because I think this little guy will remain central to the plot): Dobby said that the Great Diary Caper had been in the works "for months."

Now he said this on July 29, so if this wasn't house-elf hyperbole for "about two months," then Lucius and Co. had this on the drawing board well before Quirrell and Voldie-in-a-blanket ever made his/its June 4th grab for the PS/SS.

One cannot help but wonder how much -- or how little -- the Death Eaters knew about Voldie's quest for the P/S Stone.

One cannot help but wonder, for that matter, exactly what Lucius and Co's purpose was in sending the diary to Hogwarts. Did they believe they would be making their master stronger? Did they limit their scope to unleashing the basilisk on a few Mudbloods? Was this just an exercise in evil wizards doing what they do best, being evil?

Another question, related to the previous: Why, if they'd had the diary since Voldilocks's disappearance, did they wait until that school year to pull their diary trick? Was it some bizarre 50th anniversary observance?

And yet another: How much did Draco know, and when did he know it? The way I read it, he knows just enough to know that his dad knows even more about it. This leads me to believe that his father hasn't clued him in to Lucius' own participation via seeding the diary into the student body. He obviously doesn't know that Voldemort is the Heir of Slytherin.

And another question out of nowhere: Can anyone recall any place in the books where Draco talks explicitly about Voldemort? I think he may have in GoF at the QWC, but alas, that's the only volume that I have to share with my son, and he has it right now.

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mischa fan - Apr 22, 2003

Hi Saralinda, to answer a couple of your questions, first I don't think that the Death Eaters knew anything about Voldemort's plan to steal the Stone, I get that impression reading Voldemort's speach to the Death Eaters at the end of GOF. "How much did Draco know, and when did he know it?" In CoS, chapter 12, "The Polyjuice Potion", Draco says "...Father won't tell me anything about the last time the Chamber was opened either." and "..., and it'll look suspicious if I know too much about it." So he knew his father knew about the chamber and his father told him very little.

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Olivia Wood - Apr 22, 2003

At the World Cup he talks about the Death Eaters, but he talks about the 'Dark Lord' on the train ride home in GoF before he gets cursed.

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Mrs. Black - Apr 22, 2003


I've always had that same question about what exactly Lucius thought would happne with the diary. Did he think Riddle would switch is target from Muggle-borns to Harry or did Dobby just figure out what the diary was and assumed Riddle would go after Harry. If the basilisk was just going to go after muggle-borns Harry would be safe, so Dobby must have known Harry would end up the target, but how?

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mischa fan - Apr 22, 2003

Saralinda, I was thinking about why Lucius waited for 11 years to use the diary, maybe it took him that long to figure out what the blank diary really was. I am guessing that Lucius and some of the other Death Eaters have alot of Voldemort's old things but don't know exactly what they are, or how to use them, after all the Dark Lord was a very powerful wizard. The purpose for sending the diary to Hogwarts is a question I have wondered my self and the reason I came up was that Lucius wanted to drive Dumbledore out of Hogwarts, and maybe close Hogwarts. I also wonder if Lucius figured that if 16 year old Riddle was able to come out of the diary then he would start down the road to becoming the Dark Lord once again.

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George Prescott - Apr 23, 2003

I've referred to this on another thread, but I think it ought to be considered here-- The very first time in CoS that Ginny speaks.

'"Leave him alone, he didn't want all that!" said Ginny. It was the first time she had spoken in front of Harry. She was glaring at Malfoy.'

It's interesting that JK Rowling specifically mentions this being the first time she had spoken in front of Harry. Also, it seems that Ginny - even though she has only been with him a month - understands that Harry wasn't a publicitymonger.

Important down the road?

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Saralinda - Apr 23, 2003

Good thought, George Prescott. And her first words are both a defense of Harry and a glancing-blow attack on Draco. Certainly adds fuel to the proposal that Ginny will be critical to the "friends who are the only people he can truly count on" (<-- paraphrase from pre-Book Five PR/hype) group.

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Cliff Hamaker - Apr 23, 2003

Well, as to what Draco knows... I think he knows something of what happened with Harry's parents. On page 78-79 of the paperback American PS/SS, he alludes to the fact that Harry's parents refused some offer from the Dark Side. And personally, I think Draco gets most of his info through the key hole of Lucius' library door. Or something similar. Wink

And the DEs haven't been in contact with Voldilocks. Or trying to. The group of four, including Barty Jr. and possibly the Lestranges, who tortured Neville's parents were actually trying to find out where Voldy was. Thats why they were sent to Azkaban. And no one else was actively seeking Voldy's whereabouts or anything. They all professed Imperio curse and acted like good little witches and wizards from then on. At least until the Quidditch World Cup. Smile

Also, what if Lucius and Co. thought there was something more in the Chamber of Secrets besides the monster? Maybe they thought that the 16 year-old Tom Riddle had hidden something in the Chamber, or maybe even Slytherin himself.

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Marè - May 11, 2003

A thought just stroke me (happens sometimes) and I don't know if it has been mentioned before. Nearly headles Nick died in 1492 and we don't know why. Could it somehow be related to Columbus arrival in America and the events surrounding that happening?

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Pinky - May 11, 2003

Well spotted, Marè. That is certainly something to ponder.

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Cliff Hamaker - May 11, 2003

Well, Columbus was from somewhere in Italy, beseeched Isabel and Ferdinand to sponsor him, which they did, and they were king and queen of Spain. Wait, I think I got something mixed up... Anyway, it was one of the two countires on the Iberian Peninsula. And Nearly Headless Nick was way up in England. So, though the possibility exists, I think it is slight.

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Marè - May 12, 2003

It is right. Except that it still could happen, we don't know that sir nicholas was in brittain. The whole of Europe was fallen over each other to be the richest country, to find the shortest route to the east, to sell the rarest spices. Those were the days of the great armada's and some people travelled a lot.

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Mrs. Black - May 12, 2003

I had wondered the same thing about 1492. It was, however, generally a big year in history, especially Spanish history. I was more intrigued, however, by the fact that Nick died on Halloween.

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phaseolus vulgaris - May 12, 2003

I did a quick web search last night to find out what was going on in English history around that time, and that particular year didn't show up. It's five years after the War of the Roses ended, Henry VII was king. It mentioned he was consolidating his power at the time so it could be that Sir Nicholas may have been less than prudent when making political alliances...??

It's too early to be a Catholic-Protestant thing since Protestants didn't exist yet, and wouldn't for several decades

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Zelmia - May 16, 2003

My Key Things list: "House elves have powerful magic of their own."

"It is our choices, Harry..."

"The mandrake's cry is fatal to anyone who hears it."

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Mrs. Sirius - May 16, 2003

The introduction of discrimination, against mudbloods, happens early in book 2. Mudblood discrimination also comes up in GoF. In the interview at the end of CoS dvd JK says that that is very important and she is sorry or regrets (something to that effect) that it is not stressed more in the movie. I had the impression that this is something we will hear more about in later books. There is also the class distinction which if I remember correctly is not stress in PS/SS.

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Cliff Hamaker - May 20, 2003

Voldy's power rests in his ability to divide the Wizarding world. Playing on Mudblood discrimination is right up his alley. And this is also another reason Harry is to be feared: he could unite the wizarding world against Voldy.

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Saralinda - May 20, 2003

I hope some of those Voldilocks artifacts (referred to in CoS) Lucius has squirreled under his drawing room floor appear in upcoming plots -- and get the whole Malfoy family in deep, deep trouble.
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