Characters admitting that they might be wrong

Characters admitting that they might be wrong

This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. Elanor

Hagsquid - Jul 3, 2007 3:50 am
Edited by Kip Carter Sep 26, 2007 2:20 am
First things first. If there is another thread covering this point, please feel free to let me know, and then delete the thread. I glanced for a thread, but nothing popped out, and I'm just too busy to search systematically through every thread to try to find it...

I've noticed, in my readings, that a common theme in all the books is people who are unwilling to admit that they might be wrong about something. Usually, these people end up getting proved wrong, and usually to their demise.

The point of this thread is to discuss the times when someone was lying to themselves because they wanted to be correct more than they wanted to be right, and it was at their peril, and the times that haven't had an outcome yet, and the times that they ended up being right against all odds.

They deny that they might be wrong to their demise:

The Dursleys refusal to admit that Harry is a wizard. (Harry ended up being a wizard, and they had to deal with it.)

Neville refusing to let HRH leave the common room.

The MoM refusing to admit that Voldemort had returned. (Easy one)

Hermoine and Ron refusing to admit that Malfoy was trying to kill DD. (DD died; the fact that this may or may not be a bad thing aside.)

They deny that they might be wrong and it ended up being right:

Harry being adament that Mr. Weasly had been attacked.

Harry vs MoM.

They deny that they might be wrong, and has yet to be resolved:

Harry refusing to admit that Grubly Plank was a "better" teacher than Hagrid.

There are others that I can think of off the top of my head, but I want participation, so I'm not going to cite them all.

The main items I want to focus on are the ones where they are unresolved, for the obvious reason of predicting things to come.

Also, to add this to this discussion, when a charactor is unwilling to confide in others, when doing so might have been to their bennefit. Eg of Harry not wanting to tell others about his dreams of being a snake, and Ron not wanting to tell Harry about how he wants to be a Keeper, and lastly Ginny not wanting to tell anyone about the diary.

That probably falls under the ideal that "help from others is a strength" which has been established a multitude of times, and is probably the reason Harry will defeat Voldemort in the end. Harry has friends to help, and Voldemort tries to do everything himself and all that.

Edit: The last two paragraphs above were made originally as the first post (Jul 3, 2007 3:55 am) even though there was adequate time to edit the original post. I moved the two paragraphs and deleted the original first post. - Kip

7/7/07 Edit: - I changed the title of this thread from "Admitting that you might be wrong" to "Characters admitting that they might be wrong" so the purpose of the thread is clearer at first glance. - SE Jones

rambkowalczyk - Jul 3, 2007 7:27 am (#1 of 28)
I have to laugh as I read this as I thought the topic might be about the forum--how difficult it is to admit we are wrong when it comes to our theories.

Back to topic: In book 6, Harry is certain that Snape is an unreformed Death Eater. This is before Snape kills Dumbledore. It starts when he thinks about Sirius and somewhere it says that he finds it more satisfying to believe that Snape was responsible.

In book 6, he also accuses Draco of being a Death Eater and it turns out to be correct. But what he didn't know till the end of the book was that Draco was forced to be one (although Draco wasn't actually protesting at the time) and that Draco's life and that of his parents might have been literally on the line.

In book 7, we will have the full story on Snape and Harry will have to modify his opinion a little.

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Hagsquid - Jul 3, 2007 10:07 am (#2 of 28)
This is me listening to OoP for the umteenth time.

may have to modify his story... we'll see. I'm still in the "Snape is evil" bandwagon thus far.

Another thing I'm starting to notice now that I'm reading the books and looking for places where my theory holds true is that people who are abusing their positions of power generally turn out "bad." Voldemort most of all.

Then again, maybe JKR was just oppressed by people with power when she was younger.

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Solitaire - Jul 3, 2007 11:33 am (#3 of 28)
Hagsquid: I'm still in the "Snape is evil" bandwagon thus far.

You know what's really weird? For most of six books, i'd believed that Snape was in Voldemort's camp, but after the AK-ing of Dumbledore, I kind of changed my mind!!!! How's that for bizarre? I still think he is a horrible misanthrope who has no business traumatizing kids in a classroom ... but that's a different cauldron of Polyjuice altogether!

Solitaire

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Hagsquid - Jul 3, 2007 11:58 am (#4 of 28)
This is me listening to OoP for the umteenth time.
heh. I was in that same mood after I first read HBP. Now that I'm re-reading the books about once every two weeks, I'm starting to change my mind. Snape is EVIL. He's extremely evil.

And I think DD knew it, and even counted on it.

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zelmia - Jul 3, 2007 1:24 pm (#5 of 28)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
I'm not sure I fully understand the concept of this Thread, but I like the idea of it so I'll give it a go.

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We can't forget Percy, who was wrong about Voldemort, Harry, etc. His self-imposed estrangement is still in effect, at this point.

The Trio were wrong about Grawp, who appears to have turned out to be a comfort to Hagrid rather than a burden.

Hermione was dead wrong about the Centaurs automatically sympathizing with and protecting her and Harry from Umbridge. I hate to think what might have happened had Grawp not put in an appearance just then.

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Hagsquid - Jul 3, 2007 3:23 pm (#6 of 28)
This is me listening to OoP for the umteenth time.
Good call zelmia. I'd completely missed the Hermoine one. It's so typical of Hermoine too; she just expects every race to be kind and loving and happy-go-lucky... well.. except Grawp, which was odd. I wonder why she doesn't like giants.

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journeymom - Jul 3, 2007 5:21 pm (#7 of 28)
Edited Jul 3, 2007 5:59 pm
The characters have all made assumptions that have been disabused. Some characters admit that they made erroneous assumptions, but some, like Percy, refuse to admit their assumptions were wrong. What was it Dumbledore said about Percy? Something like, it's easier to forgive people for being wrong than for being right. (Zelmia, you beat me to it.)

Harry assumed that Petunia was as muggle-ish as can be, but then she surprised him in OotP when she knew what dementors were. Harry's view of her changed.

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Hagsquid - Jul 3, 2007 5:42 pm (#8 of 28)
This is me listening to OoP for the umteenth time.
Yes journeyman, exactly. Thanks for putting me back on track.

It's no so much "being wrong" as "refusing to admit that you might be wrong, and be willing to look at other possibilities."

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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 3, 2007 6:46 pm (#9 of 28)
Hagsquid,I'm with you. I think Snape is evil.I know it is set up to where he may,behind the scenes,be good,but I can't help from thinking that he is Dumbledore's big mistake.If he turns out to be good I won't have any trouble admitting I was wrong,though.

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totyle - Jul 3, 2007 8:14 pm (#10 of 28)
LOL! I thought this thread would be about how forum members would "eat crow" too!

OK..I dont know if this fits this thread but Molly refuses to believe that Fred and George could really be successful at making money with their mischief making ideas. She was certainly proved wrong wasnt she? And having Percy turn out as the world's biggest prat was another blow in her face as she had valued his behaviour above Fred and Georges throughout the books. She was wrong about him too.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 3, 2007 8:43 pm (#11 of 28)
Harry was wrong about Mrs. Figg.

Hagrid was wrong about Aragog's family respecting him.

I also thought this was a thread about admitting your own theories are wrong! LPO

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zelmia - Jul 3, 2007 10:32 pm (#12 of 28)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
Molly refuses to believe that Fred and George could really be successful at making money with their mischief making ideas.
Actually, while she still doesn't fully approve of the products themselves, she does admit that the Twins have a definite knack in HBP.

Nice one about Petunia, Journeymom. Our view of her changed a bit too.

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totyle - Jul 3, 2007 11:30 pm (#13 of 28)
Zelmia I dont understand your commment. Of course Molly admits it in HBP. But prior to that she didnt think much of their ideas, that was my point in that she was wrong initially. Just like all the other points made by Hagsquid, initially people misjudged a lot of things. Later they were proved wrong. I was just adding to that list. Am I not getting this thread then?

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Solitaire - Jul 4, 2007 12:15 am (#14 of 28)
LPO: I also thought this was a thread about admitting your own theories are wrong! LPO

So did I.

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Hagsquid - Jul 4, 2007 12:24 am (#15 of 28)
This is me listening to OoP for the umteenth time.
Edited Jul 4, 2007 12:57 am

Actually, while she still doesn't fully approve of the products themselves, she does admit that the Twins have a definite knack in HBP.

Heh. What totyle says. I've noticed that Molly is pretty stuck in her ways quite often, and unwilling to explore possibilities. Some further examples include the Stitches incident and the DA incident.

I've noticed that charactors who are stuck in their ways often end up being villans. I hope this won't be applicable to Mrs Weasley...

[edit]There's a "t" in stitches.[/edit]

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zelmia - Jul 4, 2007 12:49 am (#16 of 28)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
Totyle, and others -
Ha! I totally forgot what Thread I was on! Sorry, mate!

Molly can be a hard sell but she's also one of the characters who is quick to adjust her thinking when the evidence she needs presents itself. But I add to the list Molly's behaviour toward Fleur - which was a complete 180 from the beginning of HBP.

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Joanne Reid - Jul 4, 2007 8:13 am (#17 of 28)
Hi,

I'm also thinking about Hermione's attitude regarding House Elfs. From her perspective, they are slaves who must be freed. Yet, she has ample evidence from the House Elfs themselves that this is not the case. Why won't she admit that she is mistaken?

I just had a funny thought. What if, at the end of DH, she tries to free all the House Elfs of Hogwarts, but they refuse in order to go back to work? What would she do then?

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Hagsquid - Jul 6, 2007 3:41 am (#18 of 28)
This is me listening to OoP for the umteenth time.
Another for Hermoine. She refuses to stray from her potions book when Harry's results with the Prince's directions are clearly superior.

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Vox Gerbilis - Jul 6, 2007 6:08 am (#19 of 28)
I think that in DH we're going to find out that Dumbledore was wrong about a few things--not many, just a few. His biggest mistake, in my very humble opinion, is his belief that Nagini is a horcrux. A big part of this final chapter in Harry's coming-of-age will be his realization that ultimately he has to depend on his own wits because none of the adults in his life has been infallible.

I actually think that this will be harder on some of the readers than on Harry. I've noticed a Dumbledore-is-omniscient subtext to some postings, especially in regard to the Harry-as-horcrux theory. Of course, I could be entirely wrong on this one, and having crow pie for breakfast the morning of July 23.

P.S.--has anyone else noticed a slow-down in predictions as the final book approaches? I know I'm getting less confident the nearer we get to finding out the truth.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 6, 2007 9:28 am (#20 of 28)
These fall into more prejudice: Ron's reaction to Lupin when he found out he was a werewolf. Ron's reaction when he found out Hagrid was half giant.

Rita Skeeter was wrong about Hermione and Harry having a romantic relationship. Molly was wrong to believe it. LPO

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MickeyCee3948 - Jul 6, 2007 10:14 am (#21 of 28)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
This thread will have to be retitled on July 22 to "Admitting that you WERE wrong. The best way to eat crow."

Mickey

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Choices - Jul 6, 2007 12:14 pm (#22 of 28)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
LOL @ Mickey. I'll have mine with a generous splash of Louisiana Hot Sauce (it'll kill that "crow" taste - LOL)

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Esther Rose - Jul 6, 2007 1:20 pm (#23 of 28)
Oh, I am already planning on having a Crow Roast July 21st and 22nd. I am fully prepared to be completely wrong on every prediction I have ever made.

But on the chance that I am right about anything I will gloat as though I knew it all along.

Just to warning you now.

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Chemyst - Jul 8, 2007 4:05 am (#24 of 28)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Certainly one of the Biggest Biggies was Harry's disdain for the mirror Sirius gave him. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong! He thought so little of it that after his nightmarish history O.W.L. exam, it did not even register as a possible solution for contacting Sirius. If only… Sirius would be alive and Umbridge would never have been chased away by the centaurs. (OK, so maybe that second part was a good thing?)

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zelmia - Jul 15, 2007 2:51 pm (#25 of 28)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
Dumbledore admits he was wrong not to have told Harry about the Prophecy, etc.

Lupin admits he was wrong to believe Sirius was the mass murderer everyone thought.

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On the other side of the coin, Hermione simply can't resist say "told ya so" about the Half Blood Prince book, even after Harry's admitted he was wrong and in the midst of his grief.

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Solitaire - Jul 15, 2007 3:21 pm (#26 of 28)
Yeah, she also does the "I told you so" bit about the Firebolt when Sirius tells Harry (via Pigwidgeon) that he was the one who sent it.

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Hagsquid - Jul 16, 2007 8:04 am (#27 of 28)
This is me listening to OoP for the umteenth time.
None the less, she was wrong about both.

The potions instructions Snape noted *are* better then the book's notations.

And she was wrong about the firebolt being cursed.

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Anna L. Black - Jul 16, 2007 9:53 am (#28 of 28)
And Harry says "I told you so" to both Ron and Hermione after overhearing Draco and Snape's conversation on Christmas (in HBP).