Deathy Hallows Part II

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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  HungarianHorntail11 on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:06 am

I think Mona has a twinge of Slytherin in her, lol.

Thanks for the line about Bogrod. I either forgot what Ron said - or I was being interrupted by the grand central throughway going on behind us and didn't hear it.
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Puck on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:18 am

Mona, I'll have to see if my husband thinks that too. Hmmm, I wonder if people have just watched Star Wars too many times.

Freshwater, I loved your comment about "He's just a man, after all." We think of him as this evil entity, but you are right. He lost his humanity, yet he is still physically human.
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  journeymom on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:45 pm

Freshwater, I agree with you about Voldemort's death. In fact JK Rowling said Voldemort's boggart would be "death, ignominious death .... He would see himself dead." He sees death as a "shameful human weakness." Contrast Cedric Diggory's death in the movie, which they got just right. Alive one moment, dead, lifeless on the ground, the next moment. His body was vulnerable still and he even came back to ask Harry to take his body back.

I realize movie makers need Voldemort's death to be visually arresting. But I think in the movie Voldemort could have had his richly deserved mundane death and still the movie makers could have had the requisite spectacular death scene, if they'd included the dazzling red-gold burst of sunrise JKR described.

Edited to add, sitting in the theater, caught up in the moment I was perfectly happy with the scene. This isn't a terribly important issue to me.
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  journeymom on Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:04 pm

Ralph Fiennes talks about Voldemort:

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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Puck on Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:53 pm

Oh, I loved the reference to the child catcher! I was scared of him as a child, too. And LOL at how he felt good about himself when a child burst into tears upon seeing him.

I found the ending most interesting due to some posts earlier today. He was human first. Freshwater, you are thinking like Ralph Fiennes.
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  NFla_Barbara on Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:45 pm

Interesting comments from Ralph Fiennes, but I think even JKR has said that Voldemort may be the only character that isn't a mix of good and bad. Very funny about making the child cry, in a twisted way.

I loved the movie and am hoping to see it again soon (we inadvertently saw it in 3D and, although I enjoyed some of the effects, I found it distracting to see it in a different format from all the other films).

I can't imagine someone's reading this far who hasn't seen the movie, but just in case, until I see others abandon it:

Spoiler:
Most of the book-to-movie changes I can live with. However, I'm still very disappointed by the absence of house elves. Yes, they were already almost totally omitted from the movies anyway, but if they could computer-generate all those giants in the final battle, why not a quick shot of Kreacher leading the castle elves into the battle for Hogwarts?

I'm afraid to say too much about Kreacher at the moment because I purposely didn't re-read the books this summer, not wanting all that detail to "spoil" the movie. I no longer trust my memory of the books! But his transformation was huge, and the fact that he was fighting for Hogwarts at the end was, I think, another triumph of love and friendship. It is too bad that was totally left out. (I also regretted not seeing Professor Trelawney lobbing crystal balls at Death Eaters, but that is much more extraneous, and at least she was on the scene briefly.)

And that omission is related to what I didn't like about Snape's memories - let me add quickly that I thought they were well done, for the most part, and Alan Rickman was great - but then I would give him an award just for reading the want ads out loud. However, they completely left out the reason for Lily's ultimate rejection of Snape - his embrace of the dark arts. The memories as presented in the movie made him seem like the loser in a simple love triangle. Because it was AR and not some lesser actor, we still believe that Snape's love for her was enough to make him sacrifice himself for Harry years later. But non-book viewers would have absolutely no idea that part of her rejection was based on Snape's poor choices, and that her turning towards James was not just "choosing the cuter guy." And so we lost a lot of Snape's transformation as well.

Oh well. Someone has already pointed out that McGonagall's cry of grief at the end was given to Ginny, and I thought that was totally unnecessary. And I agree completely that Harry should have repaired his own wand, but I think a lot of the wand details went over peoples' heads if they hadn't read the books anyway.


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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Choices on Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:31 pm

I love your comments NFla_Barbara!

...... but then I would give him an award just for reading the want ads out loud."

lol! All I can say about that is...."Sign me up." I would sit at his feet and listen to that velvet voice all day and night.
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  freshwater on Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:59 pm

Copied from Kristin S.'s blog about the 8th movie:

"Then we get to the “Alan Rickman knew this was going to happen” part and I must admit that while Alan Rickman has never been MY Snape and I am still (“After all this time?” “Always.”) beyond miffed at Tim Roth… I was really impressed by the way that Alan Rickman handled this. Honestly, my only issue with it was the background noise – I mean, the snuffing, sobbing, snorfling, snot-filled sucking noises (and the fact that the screen got really, really blurry) was really distracting. I mean, I’d admit that it was ME, but it happened in BOTH screenings. Also, the people next to me were staring at me. I have no idea what that was about."



Re: Ralph Fiennes: a couple of years ago he won two different polls for the same year of movies: Best Villian (Voldemort, natch) and Best Romantic Kiss....you've got to be a really great actor to manage both of those!



Last edited by freshwater on Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : to add comment)
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  journeymom on Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:21 pm

LOL! Freshwater, are you miffed at Tim Roth for turning the part down? I bet he kicks himself with the premier of each new HP movie. I suppose he can stop kicking himself.
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Puck on Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:48 pm

LOL, Freshwater! I'll admit, that's the part that got me, as well. Well, got me started I should say. I was very happy that I brought along not only a box of tissues, but a cloth to wipe my glasses as well. (I had to debate whether it was better to deal with smudged glasses or wriggling contacts. I went with the glasses.)
Spoiler:
I absolutely loved the film! Yes, Alan Rickman was great. That scene was so moving. The grief in Harry's face, how he came in and put his hand on the neck wound, in an attempted to do something for this man who he had always hated, who he at the moment still considered an enemy. A man who he knew didn't have to die. It was a lovely moment between the pair. And the memory of him at Godric's Hollow, weeping over her. Not canon, but who cares? Powerful stuff.

Though not canon, I did like the scene where Harry tells Hermione and Ron why he is going into the forest. In the book we had the internal dialogue, and since that was not going to work for the film, we have a moment with the trio. Someone commented that Ron stayed in the back. Honestly, I found that true to character. He had just lost his brother. he could not have stepped forward to say goodbye to his best friend.

Neville totally rocks. Always has, always will.

The fiend fire was a great effect.

I was bothered by the fact that when asked why he was still alive Harry gave the simple "because I have something to live for." The deep magic, about them sharing blood never explained. Also left out was the fact that LV could no longer hurt those Harry had "died" to protect. But more than these, I missed Harry asking Tom to repent, to show remorse. The fact that in the end Harry still made an attempt to help this man who had taken so much from Harry, had been the source of all that pain was thrown away.

I'll likely think of more later.

Barbara, I love your comment about the Snape memory.

Hubby has not asked if LV was Harry's father. I honestly didn't get how people would think that. Yes, Severus loved Lily, but she loved James. I didn't see anything to imply there was a relationship beyond childhood friends.
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  journeymom on Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:24 am

I'm dispensing with the spoiler box.

And the memory of him at Godric's Hollow, weeping over her. Not canon, but who cares? Powerful stuff.

Heh! There's no proof that he was not there! We cannot say it is or is not canon. That's my take, anyway.
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Puck on Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:40 am

True, Journeymom. Neither confirmed nor denied.

I agree about forgetting the spoiler box. This thread is to discuss the movie. People should expect spoilers.

I didn't mention that there were a couple of little touches I did like. We see Remus and Tonks reaching out to each other as the battle begins, then there hands are in a similar position when we see their bodies in the great hall.

I like the bit about making the bridge go "BOOM" especially McGonogall's line about Seamus being great at pyrotechnics.

There wasn't a great sense of time passing. Both parts made it seem like they rushed into everything. The spent so much time carefully planning the invasion of the Ministry and Gringotts, yet the films made it seem like. "Hey lets talk about it for 10 minutes then go."
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Loopy Lupin on Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:47 am

I'm never as fussed about the changes in plot details as other people, but what they've done with McGonagall bothers me and has bothered me since OOP. She never would've taken a step down in any face off with Umbridge. Similarly, other than kicking Snape's butt in a duel, she seemed like a bit of a weenie in DH with her worried look and "excitement" over casting the spell mobilizing the statues.

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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Denise P. on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:54 pm

After seeing it with Loopy again last night ( :::waves to Loopy Lupin:::: ), I have to remark that I am more leniant towards Snape. I think it is more due to Alan R's performance than to the actual story line. I still think Snape is a creep and a creeper and nothing can make me think he was "the bravest man I ever knew" As Loopy said, when I sneered about that line, "you can do brave things, doesn't mean that you are brave"

Unlike previous films, I not picking up a lot of things that I missed in the first showing (or the second....)

I agree with most comments I have seen though, Ron did act like a bump on a log when Harry was going out to the FF. And...was Dan supposed to be crying in that scene? He certainly had some weird facial thing and it struck me he was supposed to be in tears.

Madam P....Sean Biggestaff is listed in the credits of this so Oliver Wood was somewhere. I think in the intervening years, he may have grown up to the point we don't recognize the young Gryffindor Captain with the lovely accent now. I was looking for him but didn't see him...was he in the Order when they came into the Great Hall? I will make a point of looking for him when I go see it at the IMAX.

There wasn't a great sense of time passing. Both parts made it seem like they rushed into everything. The spent so much time carefully planning the invasion of the Ministry and Gringotts, yet the films made it seem like. "Hey lets talk about it for 10 minutes then go."

According to IMDB, Most of the events in this film - from the raid of Gringotts to the Battle of Hogwarts - take place over the course of a single day.

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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Madam Pince on Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:11 pm

journeymom wrote:
And the memory of him at Godric's Hollow, weeping over her. Not canon, but who cares? Powerful stuff.

Heh! There's no proof that he was not there! We cannot say it is or is not canon. That's my take, anyway.

Me, too, journeymom! That's my story and I'm sticking to it! LOL!

Verity, thanks for the Bogrod/Ron line. I did miss that... Oh, and the Dumbledore line wasn't a "funny" one that people were laughing at -- it was just a line I couldn't understand for whatever reason. I'll probably get it on the second view.
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Madam Pince on Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:16 pm

Puck wrote:Also left out was the fact that LV could no longer hurt those Harry had "died" to protect. But more than these, I missed Harry asking Tom to repent, to show remorse. The fact that in the end Harry still made an attempt to help this man who had taken so much from Harry, had been the source of all that pain was thrown away.

Oooooo! Two very good catches! You're right -- those should've been in there. The first might've been too complicated to try to explain, what with all the other wand-complications already... But the second should've definitely been in there...
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Madam Pince on Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:19 pm

NFla_Barbara wrote:Interesting comments from Ralph Fiennes, but I think even JKR has said that Voldemort may be the only character that isn't a mix of good and bad.

Very true, Barbara. I saw that quote just the other night -- it was in one of those "The Making of Harry Potter: Characters" or "Creatures" or one of them... JKR said (paraphrasing) "All of my characters show a combination -- none are all good or all bad, they all have some of both characteristics in them. Well, except for Voldemort."

LOL about Alan Rickman reading the want ads aloud. Me, too! And I also missed Trelawney lobbing crystal balls -- seems like if they'd bring her back and get her all gussied up in all that costume, that she could've at least tossed a few crystal balls. Maybe that'll be in the deleted scenes...



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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Madam Pince on Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:25 pm

Denise P. wrote:...nothing can make me think he was "the bravest man I ever knew" As Loopy said, when I sneered about that line, "you can do brave things, doesn't mean that you are brave"

Hmmmm. Gotta disagree. If you do brave things, what does that make you then? Surely not a coward?

Ya'll just don't like his hair or something.

Oh, and I disagree about the "Voldy hugging Draco" thing being ridiculous or laughable, either. I'm with Journeymom -- I don't know that I'd have written the scene that way, but it worked OK for me and I certainly didn't feel like laughing at it. It seemed like Voldy was welcoming Draco back to "his side." I didn't notice Draco being stiff as a board, but I noticed he seemed reluctant -- to me that was supposed to convey that he really didn't want to come over to Voldy but that he felt he had to obey his parents --- conveyed that he WAS a coward. I dunno... I think I need to watch that scene more carefully next time...
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Puck on Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:52 pm

Tome Draco seemed he didn't want LV to touch him. For all his talk, Draco didn't have the heart for the DE lifestyle.

I admit to being bothered by LV feeling weaker as each horcrux was destroyed. The book clearly states he does not know/feel it when this happens. And if Harry can "sense" being near another horcrux, why did he sense the snake in Godric's Hollow?
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  journeymom on Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:04 am

My dd says Lily Potter's and Severus Snape's last words were both 'always'. She came running from the other room to tell us this, apparently having read it on the 'net. I have to admit, if it's true, that's pretty cool. The only thing for it is to go see the movie again to check...
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Puck on Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:37 am

That seems right. She was looking at baby Harry and telling him that Mummy and Daddy love him, and I believe she did say always.

Snape's last words in the memory scene was always, which is when we last saw him. He last words before he died were "Take them."
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Holly on Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:55 pm

My random thoughts:

In the forest scene when Harry asks them to stay with him James says "until the end" and Lily says "always."

I liked the little callbacks to the earlier movies, with Seamus being good at blowing things up (on purpose or not), and the pixies in the Room of Requirement.

I was getting extremely concerned that they were going to have Hermione kill the snake because that is Neville's job and he is awesome and I was so glad he got to have his big moment.

I didn't see Oliver Wood and I was looking for him. There's a good reason to go see it again. I thought I saw Percy with the Weasley family near the end.

I thought they should have had Harry repair his wand with the elder wand, but they hadn't really explained in this movie that his was broken. They kind of half addressed the whole Harry has ownership of Draco's wand now so that's why the elder wand went to him. Too complicated for them to explain?

I did not like the leap off the cliff with Harry and Voldemort. I think that was added solely for 3D effects. A couple of other places with the snake and the dragon I was like oh this is because they wanted it to look cool in 3D. I saw it in 2D as the 3D glasses bother me since I wear glasses and since one of my eyes is weaker than the other it doesn't balance well with the 3D glasses and I miss out on some of the effects and get a headache.

I was disappointed in how they did Voldemort's death. I like the symbolism of Tom Riddle falling dead to the ground as a man, and him exploding into a million pieces was not as satisfactory. Also, who's to say there won't be more rumors that he's not really dead when there isn't a body? Again, I think that was added solely for 3D as I imagine it looked like there were tiny Voldie pieces falling all around. (eww)

Overall, though, I was very pleased. Daughter was sobbing a lot. I was some. I think dh was embarrassed to be seen with us.
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Viola on Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:53 pm

I caught Oliver Wood the first time. If I remember correctly he is in the background when Voldie and crew approach with Harry's body. I just may have to go see it a third time to make sure.

There were a few places in the movie that I had a hard time hearing what was being said. One of those was Ron's line in Gringott's after Bogrod gets it from the dragon. I'm glad you guys caught it.

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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Madam Pince on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:01 pm

Puck wrote:

Snape's last words in the memory scene was always, which is when we last saw him. He last words before he died were "Take them."

I thought his last words were "You have your mother's eyes..." ?
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Madam Pince on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:07 pm

Holly wrote:
In the forest scene when Harry asks them to stay with him James says "until the end" and Lily says "always."

Great catch! Love that!

Holly wrote:I liked the little callbacks to the earlier movies, with Seamus being good at blowing things up (on purpose or not), and the pixies in the Room of Requirement.

I liked that too! The pixies rocked! *giggle*


Holly wrote:I was disappointed in how they did Voldemort's death....who's to say there won't be more rumors that he's not really dead when there isn't a body?

I thought the same thing, especially because they did they whole "jump off the bridge" thing with Harry/Voldy so that they were completely removed from everyone -- nobody got to see Harry kill him! And there's no body? That was the first thing out of my mouth -- "How will everyone know he's really dead this time?"

LOL at hubby being embarrassed to be seen with you! At least you were in a theater far from home and you'll never see any of those people again as long as you live probably.
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